THIS GUY IS OFF... ITS MORE GYNOCENTRISM AND HENCE WOMEN AND MEN TEND TO CARE MORE AND MORE ABOUT WOMEN AND WHAT THEY WANT, SO IN RELATIONSHIPS ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT THE WOMAN WANTS AND WHO SHE WANTS THE COUPLE TO SPEND TIME WITH! AND THE MAN IS WEAKENED, GUILTED AND THREATENED UNTIL HE BECOMES A SIMP THAT DOES THE SHIT SHE WANTS TO DO EACH WEEKEND... REAL MEN USED TO MEET UP REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR FOIDS WANTED! YOU SHOULD PRACTICE THIS! ITS WHAT THE MAN WANTS THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT NOW AND THEN THE RELATIONSHIP WILL SURVIVE AND THE MAN WILL HAVE FRIENDS BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE TIME FOR HIS FRIENDS!
Most of what we consider “friends” are really just “acquaintances” Real friendship requires openness and truly being yourself with your friends which sadly is very difficult to do nowadays because most “friends” are in competition with each other instead of getting each other’s backs.
@@baustin11111 I did an experiment with people I thought would be in my life forever, well at the time it seemed so because we were in the service together. Sure enough after we all left and went our separate ways I pondered and every year I'd remember their birthdays and send them an email or text with a birthday wish and checking in on how life was. Sure enough, I did not receive any birthday wish or yearly message from any of them, only a response when I reached out on their birthdays. Then I stopped sending emails etc. and still to this day I wonder, do they even remember me? I don't beat myself up over it because to be honest my wife is my best friend and though its not bro time we enjoy most of our time with similar activities, we also have three young sons who I look forward to growing older with just so we can have grownup bro times of our own. Either way, never give up on yourself. There is always someone somewhere who will be by you one day, just let life happen naturally and by accident.
Couldnt have said it better.. It goes As far As secret celebration or relief to them, when you suffer a set back. 🤔🤔.. So why have an enemy in your affairs??..
I reached a point in my mid 40's somewhere where I realised I didn't have much to show for 25 years of friendships and gradually started investing less time in it. Friendship IS conditional, it is based on proximity, convenience and shared activities and even the closest friendship will be eroded given enough time of absence.
I will disagree. My closest friends are in a different state. I left that state a decade ago. We only talk once every couple months, but as soon as we get in front of each other in person, it's like time has never passed, we go straight back to being 18 and in college again. We're all now in our 40s with kids. The rest are of that "acquaintance" group. We nearly have nothing in common are far as shared interests/careers. How do I know they are "real friends"? I recently went through hardship and each and every one of them lent me a shoulder to lean on and provided context and support when needed the most.
Wow that really hit home. We tragically lost our 17yo son to suicide. In 6 days it will be 6 years ago. It changed those of us who were lucky/unlucky to remain lives forever. So much of what was discussed here hit home not only for my son but myself. His death resulted in the end of our marriage (there was no recovery). And now I am living a much lonelier life in my 50’s as a single male. It is hard to make new friends and your comments about loneliness also hit home. I’ve never thought about the shoulder to shoulder concept. That makes so much sense. Thank you for covering these vital topics 🙏
Strength to you Jamie, reading your message floored me with emotion. We lost our youngest daughter 2 years ago next month to suicide. Keep going and try not blame yourself , it's hard but it helps. Your courage to write this message helped me to respond. Big handshake from the heart.
@@blairbrown7848 I embrace your handshake from the heart Blair. It’s a sorrow that only those who’ve been through it truly understand and that number is tragically way to high. Thank you for the courage to comment also. My thoughts & support are with you & your family ♥️
My sympathies Jamie. I lost my 18 year old son three years ago, in a car accident. Even still I know I can’t fully comprehend your loss. My marriage was already on the ropes and has since ended. The biggest challenge is that most of my current friends are still married, so limited time for outside activities. Having said that, I am doing my best to be active and still getting friend time in. Men need to be doing something in my experience, not a lot of heart to heart over coffee.
That is certainly a terrible thing to have happen. As much as it is hard it's important for our own mental health if we get out there and at least try to meet others. I have found that they don't come to you. I always try and start with an interest group something I like doing and go from there.
Yes, absolutely. The last time I got laid off I tried to stay in touch with them on social media and they made it clear they weren't interested in it. I've seen women do the same thing; women who used to have Girls' Nights with coworkers, splinter off and stop talking after the job is done.
I moved to the US after university for work. It was a shock to me as I was used going out a lot with my school friends. Once at the engineering office nobody went after work. It was very lonely, compounded by being in a new country. I learned I needed to be comfortable with my own company for long periods of time or I would go insane. This ability has insulated me from loneliness ever since. Nobody is coming to rescue you, you need to be able to climb the mountain alone if need be.
There is a UK Charity CALM - the Campaign Against Living Miserably that is try to reduce loneliness and reduce suicide particularly by men - I am sure there are similar organisations in the USA
Even at college, engineering school is very lonely. People treat it in a very professional way. No chit chats or wasting other people's times unless you wanna establish a mutual beneficial partnership. Going out for the heck of going out is seen as a waste of time
Friendships die because a lot of men don't make any effort to actually maintain friendships. They put everything and anything before their friendships. I've had many friends over the years that I lost contact with because they wouldn't put any effort towards the friendship. Once I stopped calling or texting them, I never heard from them again.
Going through that exact thing at the moment, I noticed that unless I initiated contact I'd never hear from them, so I decided to see how long it would take before I heard from them if I just stopped. It's been about 14 months now. The last time I spent any time with one of them was when I flew him interstate to go watch a footy game, paid for his return flight, put him up accommodation wise at my mums place (we both stayed there) and even paid for his ticket to the game. When we landed back home I decided that was when I would see how long it would take for him to contact me. 14 months later I haven't heard from him, we never had an argument or anything, we get along great, into the same sport obviously same music etc, we actually coached our kids together years back but he just won't go out of his way to initiate contact with me, I'm sure he's probably like that with everyone but I'm just sick giving and receiving no effort in return
Same sometimes I’m guilty of it though, I read a message when I’m in the middle of something and think “I’ll just do this and then I’ll reply back” then you realise “shit, I never replied back to them” like a week later or something and you sort of feel like you’ve left it a bit long and it’s kind of awkward now, so you just end up not responding Or sometimes I think because I’m a socially anxious person sometimes I find it hard to judge my value or the level of a friendship and sometimes don’t want to start a conversation out of the blue because I sort of don’t want to embarrass myself overestimating our friendship level and end up thinking to myself “why would they be excited to hear from you? They’ve got loads of stuff going on in their life and probably have loads of other friends now” especially if it’s on social media and you’ve seen them talking about other friends or they’ve met up with people, cause you then start to think “well clearly they have close friends I’m not part of”
There have been instances where I am guilty of not making an effort but @ least for me it is driven by the idea that I question those connections & never really know that friendship is wanted with me, there there must be some other reason they are engaging me, well until they don't. Largely I suspect its transactional or that they just lack the front to tell me to f-off. I am 53 now & I can recall when I had a friend it would of been in my early 20ies. I have not really had anything to do with a woman for more than 20 years & I really have no enthusiasm to want to have anything to do with them again. I miss them, I just don't miss the fuckery & drama. So it is something that continues to not get resolved. I am not the type to suicide, I tell people it is spite & resentment for the human condition that has had me commit to living as long as possible. The separation that I have had a hand in too, but not only, is always there & I wish I could just lose the awareness that it is there because I have no solution to it.
I have a like 6 fantastic mates and the only reason i have these guys, is because these guys appreciate the talks, brutal honesty and friendship we share for eachother. Talk to your brothers guys, real deep talk. We need it.
I think that it's hard to find people on the same page. I like deep talk, but is my deep talk and yours the same as yours? A great video is the TED talk of Barbra Sher "Isolation is the dream Killer". I want to start a group but I'm not sure how to even get people to join.
A lot of guys these days only see the world through egotistical means, "how can this dude add value to my life" etc. This decline of men in society is only going to get worse. Women truly are the kryptonite of men.
I used to have a number of men friends. As I got older I realized I was the only one that put the effort in to the friendship. It is what it is. I don’t waste my time anymore.
I met someone at the gym years ago and we hit it off. We became workout partners and then close friends. We both talk frequently even though we don’t live very close to each other anymore and we both have this relationship where we trust each other implicitly. I can’t tell you how much I value this relationship because I now know how rare it is to have someone you trust that much and know you could depend on if you needed to. I’ve come to realize you don’t need a ton of friends but having a few close ones is worth it and it takes a lot of time and proper boundaries to find them.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless. And they used to work six days a week back then, but they still had the time for socializing.
Think of the ramification of that: If men mostly hang out with guys, and it tends to create tension with girls, what happens when we go from all male to 50/50 workplaceS? It means 100% to 50% of potential friendships reduction. Not many hang out with opposite gender and if they have a partner it will not be so popular. So that is a huge one. Same goes for women when they were home wives.
I think more present fathers have also effected the dynamic. Like you said the men were working a lot while the women tended to the children. I work in a clinical environment and I cannot tell you how many old men have stories about working then going drinking at the local bar and just getting into shenanigans. Now-a-days I feel people rush home before the kids go to bed just to get a bit of time with them. Obviously it’s amazing that men are trying to be more present but of course everything has trade offs.
Guys, that’s rather upsetting. Make an effort to join a group related hobby, sport or social activity. Just get amongst people and find your tribe - they’re out there waiting for you.
The shoulder to shoulder thing is real...some of the realest conversations I've ever had was while driving or sitting at a bar or walking/hiking/running
I’m a veteran, have tattoos, workout a lot (bro lift and run and bike). But I don’t connect with other men because I don’t like watching sports, I don’t drink, I don’t play video games, and I don’t gamble. Most guys I know are obsessed with those things.
You just described me…figured it was just me - I don’t fit in - i mountain bike- but when weather is bad I’m in my garage tinkering with my old car projects 👍
I am so thankful for my 2 guy friends, we share everything and have deep talks. Their friendship saved me many times. I don't know where I'd be without their support.
@@SS-qk8oc Lol don't blame anything. Men have always been emotionally more immature than women. Men will complain about being lonely but then if someone asks them to hang out - grab a beer or something, it's weird. This stuff is really simple, but especially in the west men just refuse to grow up.
I made friends with an old homeless fella, who lived under the overpass near me, in Yokohama. About 12 years ago, when I first moved here and I passed him on the way to the station, he'd shout "Ringo Starr!" which made me chuckle. When family and friends were over from England, I'd made a point of stopping to say hello to him and saying "who do I look like?", and when he said "Ringo Starr, Beatles!" they'd be in stitches as well. So, from buying him a bottle of water on hot days, popping in the convenience store for him if he was hungry, buying him a pocket transistor radio and gloves for Christmas and stuff like that, I got to know him a bit better. I haven't seen him for a few months now, his mobility was becoming chronically bad, and I think he's been taken off the streets by the authorities. I always look around the underpass on the way to the station, but I sadly don't really expect he'll come back. Friendship developing has no chance unless the two potential friends are prepared to find a bit of time for each other though.
@avairal5936 I was gonna say, even in Los Angeles it was still hypothermia weather at night even as of 2 months ago. When it rains, people die of hypothermia, but people also die of it from the dew if they don't have a tent AND a sleeping bag. Anything below 50 degrees is hypothermia, but the 50s is also hypothermia weather, except it takes 3-6 hours to die of hypothermia versus 3 hour or less in the 40s
Incremental femini*t belief system has branched off into patriarchal control of a variety of things that men do or are going to do. Treating a woman like a queen at the expense of the man's mental health is an involuntarily narcissistic short or longterm plan it seems. I'm not just a Uniform
Having friends that have your back in tough times is truly a blessing. If you have a family like that as well you’re one of the wealthiest persons on the planet.
I'm a gas engineer and the amount of blokes and women that open up to me when I'm working is unreal. Makes me happy to know I've helped them in some small way.
As a 50+ Aussie male who grew up in the country, I can easily name 10+ guys I grew up with died by suicide in their teens & 20’s. Well before mental health was acknowledged. I truly hope my son’s generation follows a different path
Yep, definitely agree .. also Aussie and right on point. The “macho men do not cry drink your your beer and man up” culture did not help … fortunately times are changing … mental health really only is being talked about post Covid
Lived in Perth for 12 years, the way it is here is one big race to the top, by snitching and back stabbing rather than hard work. It means that people you work with are colleagues and not work-mates, it's very sad.
I'm Australian, 56 years old and the Mens Shed is probably the best thing EVER for men, especially as it focuses on middle aged + men, sometimes divorced, widowed etc. Loneliness is the biggest Killer in our modern society. I could talk for hours on this subject, but this video, even though the tip of the Ice Berg is straight to the point, and I am grateful. Love Your Work!
Mens shed started here south Wales UK five years ago during COVID. Fantastic and it's thriving and helping lots of men in my local area. Thank you Australia.
The latter part of the conversation with regards to men taking their own lives is so important. I work at a crematorium in UK as a gardener (but also help work the chapel and the machines also) and you would be surprised at how many young men we receive. I see the families that pass through the chapel and the impact it has on them. As someone who has suffered with depression at times in my life, the one common theme is always the feeling of being useless or not of need. We as a planet have to halt this phenomenon. We’ve become more connected than ever through our phones and technology, yet we are now more separated as a result. I hope we can find a solution before more lives are cut short.
Yep … the value of human life has cheapened driven by corporate profits and political self interest… erosion of national values, globalization of manufacturing, social media etc 😢 I am in my 40s and feel very lucky to have had my teenage years in the 90s with real friends and those holiday adventures away from screens
It is identification with the mind, which has evolved into an utter beast in humans. It does not have 'your' best interests at heart. Stifle it by watching it.
I’m so lucky to have my girlfriend of 12 years. She’s my best friend we never fight. My brother also is a blessing no one will understand the bond. It’s truly sad that male bonding is dead.
Talking about the 2 most used words with men taking their own lives.. I have those exact inner thoughts and feelings and I have been struggling with it for some years now. I was watching while going for a walk and I just started crying because the person you're describing is me
I am a male of 68 years, this has been brought up recently by a very dear classmate at our 50th high school reunion. A subject I most definitely need to research more. Great content as always, will listen in on the entire interview. Thank you.
I was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s, retired now. From my perspective society seems much more competitive and status oriented than ever before. People are more judgmental, hot tempered and generally egotistical. The term “road rage” didn’t exist when was young. It’s fairly common now. I see all kinds of weird forms aggression on the road when driving. Generally, people seemed more friendly, humble, thoughtful and kind when I was young. It’s a more hostile world today. On the why end of things. As I said previously, I think it is the pursuit of status, wealth and material things. That combined with an immersion into on-line worlds of fantasy. Everyone one is involved with that and avoiding actual one-on-one interaction with people.
I just retired too. A few things were different back then. People were not so rude and selfish. Public idiocy was not tolerated well. If you “got in someone’s face” or treated another with the level of disrespect I see in society today, you would be eating knuckles and picking your teeth up off the ground for dessert. There are zero consequences for people’s behavior now.
Social life will never be the same If you grew up Gen x etc you experienced community , Fridays we would go down town , meet up at pizza places , cruise around in cars , go to parties , swim in the river , and finally we did match making for each other ❤
Technology And the world is less of a friendly place Before social media you had to go meet up in person Eg you would go to the arcade to play video games we did not have Xbox If you wanted to meet a guy you had to show up at the keg party 😅 We didn’t have cameras all over and cell phones Of you were bored you would go to the local convenience store and chat with the guy that worked there The economy was locally based Everything and everyone was tied together If I were to tell friends now - meet me down at the river , being an inner tube, tie a 6 pack to it People would be afraid Someone would take a picture now No more what happens down at the river is our business
Watch older movies like the Breakfast club or dazed and confused and see the them and now I encourage everyone to try to have a meet up in person Make friends at a local pub Join a hiking group etc Volunteer just be a part of something ❤️
If you really want some fun get a group of ppl and play a card game or board game I played 500 rummy with family recently and we had a blast like old Times
Steven Bartlett sat in the front row at The Comedy Store whilst I was the MC, I had no idea who he was but the entire audience did 😂 Glad you covered this topic here, life gets harder for men as we get older, and not all men can cope with the emotional difficulties of loneliness, but those who can and do, are able to help provide insight into uplifting ourselves. Ultimately, it all begins within, for all relationships are transactional, and every man has his gift to give the world.
I have 3 real friends. All of them from my college years when i was 16-20 years old. Men usually make lasting friendships during this age. Everyone else they come across after that especially at work are just acquaintances. Ive lived in another country for 20 years, but i still keep in contact with my friends at home and we get together to talk about the good old days every time I visit. It never gets old😊
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless.
The "face to face" vs "shoulder to shoulder" topic was interesting. What if it's a subconscious side effect from centuries of warfare. If we're "face to face" we're enemies, but if we're "shoulder to shoulder" we're allies. Just an idea.
Once men get married, they tend to disappear into that bubble. Marriage has become very insular in modern times, where it used to be more of a community. I remember my grandparents always had people from the neighborhood coming by and also extended families tended to live close by. Now we barely know the people next door in many cases and live hours away from extended family. I've also noticed few men have interests or hobbies outside of their job and watching TV when they get home. Outside interests are a great way to meet friends-I've played in bands for years and met some great guys that way.
Absolutely. Being used by your employer, living in splendid isolation with your spouse, don't speak to the neighbours next-door etc. Joining clubs helps if you've got the energy and your wife doesn't play up too much accusing you of seeing a girlfriend
@@STMARTIN009 If you are lonely with your own company, then I would say that the problems lie within, not without. Another person cannot enable you to come to terms with the solitary nature of existence. Tolerating a bad relationship just to avoid that painful reality will not help you, in fact if you haven't dealt with it, the irony is you will be more likely to end up in an unsatisfying relationship. You have to be sufficient within yourself
Being married turned from being a caring father and husband into a Pack Mule. I know I put my family before myself so much that I forget to do anything else.
I’m a single woman and I noticed that my married friends have friends, but their husbands don’t really have friends. They just hang out with their wife and sometimes their wife’s friends in a group setting.
My brother took his life last year, and while i try to be open about that, and i am more open then most, I still find the words to tangle out of my mouth.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I live with someone who is extremely suicidal and prefers hiding in bed all day, pretty sure he’s only staying alive to not upset me and his mom, extremely anhedonic. It’s very difficult to understand or make sense. His best friend of 30 years took his own life last year after losing his wife to cancer.
I have no friends anymore, I’m convinced it’s because I quit drinking and drugs. I’ve never felt so alone in my life. Who ever said drugs were isolating never got into drugs. Isolation from family yes. But not alone like I am now. Loneliness over drugs, it’s a better life.
After being disappointed and disrespected by many former "friends" I'm okay by myself. I enjoy my own company. My family and my cats are enough for me.
I've worked with female colleagues who have developed proper friendships with other females at work, in the sense that they meet up outside of work, go out socialising together etc. I've not seen it happen much with men
Not really, I'm 47 and I have found all my life that antisocial people tend to be held in high regard and always have tons of followers, even ones who've done prison time for rape, assault, stalking etc. Conscientious people do *not* have that automatic 'clout' and worship everywhere they go. Maybe Canadians are just degenerates, who knows.
I'll be honest, I never understood the need for friendship or even socialising. I do it because it is expected, but I prefer to be on my own, and I seem to have no interest in other people, which makes all my relationships extremely shallow. I prefer the company of my dogs. Relationships with women apart from their suffocating neediness often suck precicely because they crave to be social. I suffer through all that for mainly the sex. I don't remember a time I felt lonely, but I did see it in my dog, which is why I rescued another dog to keep her company.
@@Brakka86 Nothing wrong with natural introversion. Only problem is that in our culture, young women find it unacceptable so young guys have to tolerate image-based pecking-order crap just to attract a dumb female :)
I’m generally like that now. Mainly due to not enough time and my hobbies and family taking the remaining free time. My wife understands me enough that we live comfortably and I’m so grateful to have her but she suckers me into her social endeavors and I always feel like a pay a big price out of my mental energy. It’s hard for others to fully understand this.
God bless you guys. I’m 29 and have the benefit of working with older people and I’ve learned that many wish they didn’t lose connection with their friends through the years. It’s made me double down on mine. I had a cigar and bourbon with my two neighbors the other day. One is 45 and the other 55. You could tell it meant the world to both of them that we meet up to smoke a cigar once in a while. One cried while sharing about his deceased father and the other said how much it meant that he counted us as friends. It saddened me to learn neither has a group of good friends.
My experience in relationships has been that the woman I’m with expects to be the priority at every moment, and any time with attention on someone/something else is a detriment to the woman’s needs. It’s beyond codependency, it’s a built in expectation with women, and it’s isolated men for generations.
Those are controlling women. You are picking them like that, most of the time it's got something to do with an unhealthy relationship with your mother. There are tons of non-controlling women out there, you just need to figure out what *you* are doing wrong when you go after a woman. I have had friends in those relationships but was never in one myself - I can see those women from a mile away, because they *don't* act like my stable and mentally healthy mom or sister who I grew up around.
@@bbainter7880 well said, but also easier said than done. It took me 6 years (from 42 to 48) to understand and undo the damage caused by my cruel, abusive and narcissistic mother. She’s been a curse on my family and ruined every aspect of our lives. As children we were programmed to accept and normalize selfishness, cruelty and neglect…. And that’s what I looked for in women as an adult thinking it was normal and ok. I’m finally with a beautiful and loving woman and have zero contact with my mother.
Too much competition, insecurity, and comparisons. When I realized this was going on with some of my oldest friendships I let them go. Someone I knew from age 10 was undermining my confidence intentinoally, playing a game of I'm better than you, I'm more successful than you. This happened with a college professor friend later in life very disappointing. I think it's about the ego and a willingness to let go of it. The ego always wants to prove it is better, it is right, but the ego is not who we are it's just a fabrication we have created of the world and how we think we fit inside it.
People these days are so fucking transactional, you’re only kept around as long as you’re useful. If you lose the utility your “friendship” is valued at near zero. (edit) someone is threatening me and I could use some votes on my community page on what to do if you have time. 😪
Agreed I said this the other day , I always showed up did what I could to help friends . When I went through a hard time watched everyone of my friends leave at some point except 2 ( true mates ) people only want you around on their terms and what you offer for them . World sucks .
One of the books on my reading list is called: "Games that people play" by Eric Berne. It's about Transactional Analysis. Yeah, it's often transactions. Sadly a lot of people like to just take and rarely give back.
Yes, lately i've dropped out of my music band because they have said I'm sounding like sh!t and they forbid me to play, week before our first gig (even thou only two of fourteen set tracks were half baked). One of these guys I have thought of as a pretty close friend and he did nothing to sort things out (even taking in consideration that he was the leader), also they used me by taking some of my money to pay for few things (luckly not much) because all of them are living almost on debt.
I dont have any friends because I witnessed multiple instances where people close to me flip a switch and turn into complete two-faced backstabbers. Multiple instances where I needed help and they turned me away, realizing people don't practice what they preach and morality is only present when it's convenient
Somehow americans switch to a mentality where every man is every other mans enemy. It wasn't like that for boomers. It all started with gen X as the 80's brainwashed every american male into thinking he was rambo or arnold shwarzenegger. It is even worse now for younger generations with smart phones and social media.
I'm 41, lately noticed people kinda think I'm weird, I suspect because I talk their ear off, I like people but never actually hang out with anyone anymore so that's why, is what it is.
One can have both. I also like my solitude, I live alone and I spend a lot of time alone. I still have and enjoy friends though. Just less frequently than most do. I do however agree that there is a large and important difference between loneliness and solitude.
I never got married. One by one as my friends all got married, they dropped off. Especially after having kids. I ran into trouble with several of their controlling wives that wouldn’t let them out of the house and they were too weak to stand up to them. I kept trying to maintain the friendship by getting together once a month. When that didn’t work, I tried quarterly, then every six months and finally once a year before I wrote them off. It pissed me off and also hurt. They were guys I used to hang out with several times a week. Finally I just politely said, “I know you are really busy with life. I would really like to maintain a friendship with you. The ball is in your court, give me a call some time, I’d love to get together again.” Never heard back from any of them.
You are apparently blind to the amount of time parents have if they work full time and their children are young. The wives are not controlling. The wives have every right to want their husbands to spend time with their kids and contribute to housework/yard work. It is time to grow up and realize that most of your friends are probably not getting even six hours of sleep a night if their kids are young. Think again about their priorities and you might understand why the men choose to back their wives if you have the attitude that those wives are "controlling". In addition, the men may have come to the decision that they have grown apart from you, a former friend. They moved on in life. You did not.
@@alexr6114 😅🤣😂 if you think “sacrificing” two or three hours once a year entirely planned well in advance on your own schedule is too much to ask there is something wrong.
@@alexr6114 i see the same in my life, my friends cant go anywhere but their wives come and go as they please, i was friends with a bunch since i was 12, we all grew up got married etc, now the wives are the friends and do stuff together and we don;t , we try but there is always a reason that they cant due to plans that pop up after our plans we make, its driven our friendships apart. I find when women control men its classed as under the thumb, when men do it, its toxic controlling behaviour , women make time for one and other, men don;t
@@alexr6114 I have seen many married couples and seen this similar excuse given. However, that seems to be the case for only men though. The women always have plenty of time to chat with THEIR friends and meet with their friends and have girls night out, etc. If a guy tries that, she will CLAIM she is ok with it but you can see from her facial expressions and her behavior after that she is clearly not. The guys just take the path of least resistance and just comply with whatever the woman wants. Honestly, I cannot blame them, it is just easier that way.
Last best friend i had was when i was up to the age of 15. Im 43 now & have lots of acquaintances. I just dont let people get close enough anymore. Trust issue i guess. I only feel comfortable with my wife & kids & brother & close family
Same. So many “friends” that I have emotionally really invested in, sometimes prioritised them over my family turned out to be very very disappointing. So no more wasting time on this non sense. Prioritise your family.
Coming out of COVID, many of us started looking for in-person connection again. I knew I couldn't get my friends to come over, sip beer, and talk about their lives, so board games became a reason to gather. The game was the excuse, but the conversations around the table was the goal. It's worked surprisingly well for years now.
This is Gods work you’re doing right here my friend. So many men go unheard because they hold it in. But If you’re reading this everything is going to be alright. Just keep pushing forward. Godspeed.
Homo economicus. Working 3 times as hard to afford 3 times less than our grandparents did due to the inflation of an unsustainable fiat currency, egged on by women who thinks everything they see on social media is attainable via you, the man who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, hasn't the time or energy for friends just for her to claim she's independent, doesn't appreciate his efforts anyway and could probably just go and do onlyfans without any shame whatsoever. Imagine how easy life would be if born female and beautiful
Agreed, and would add that I suspect it's not depression/mental health for men in most cases, but rather despair at facing an insurmountable problem eg. job loss, debt, divorce, child custody battles, genetics affecting relationship prospects... that leads to an untimely end.
Not exactly. 100 plus years ago food wasn't prevelant like is it today. You would work all day to grownor put food on the table. Many went to town once a month or if lucky once a week.
I haven’t had a friend since 2014. I used to have 3-4 good male friends as a teen and into my early 20’s but once I moved to another state, I never made a friend, and the old friendships fell off as we never saw each other and lived 20 hours away. It’s probably the thing I miss the most, having other guys who share similar experiences and interests.
I read a quote once that said "True friendships survive time, distance and absence." I have a best friend that I met when I was an Army officer stationed in Germany. She was a British woman married to another Army officer. Within 5 minutes of meeting we just clicked and a week later had become good friends. That rapidly became best friends. That was in 1991. We are still best friends despite having lived most of our lives on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean. We write, email, text and Skype. Now that our children are grown we get together for a week long trip once or twice a year. I'm so lucky to have found her long after the time most friendships are made.
An acquaintance is someone you have a beer with at the bar. A friend is the one that rings you up to invite you to the bar. One is happy to see you, the other makes the effort to hang out with you
It's the "making the effort" part that men seem to struggle with. They're fine if you're already at the bar, but if they have to arrange for you to meet them there or take you there, they can't be bothered
I know too many people like this. Never contact you , but happy to talk if they run into you. Lockdown was a big eye opener in that regard. The older I get, the more I think that people are ‘ out of sight, out of mind’
Men's sheds have been revolutionary in Australia. They are everywhere. Major cities to small country towns in the middle of nowhere. They keep men connected, especially in small towns where traditional connectors have slipped due to population movement. They should be a global thing, as they not just impact the people but the wider communities.
He's absolutely right about being shoulder to shoulder with men. I remember going out snowplowing with my best friend at night, just sitting in his truck and talking while he plowed snow. or we go snowmobiling together, or fishing, or doing some kind of work. Those were some of the best times I ever had spending with a friend. We were always doing something.
Ive had the same 3 best friends for a while. Met the first in Kindergarten, the 2nd in 1st grade, and the 3rd in 3rd grade. I just turned 28. Still talk to each of them at least once a week. True friendships take work and dedication, but I truly appreciate the fact I still have close relationships with them. They've helped me get through so much in life.
I'm currently in the middle of an experiment i decided to run. I noticed that i only communicated with and saw my 'friends' if i initiated contact with them, so i decided to see how long it would be before i heard from them if i just stopped making contact. Its been over 14 months now and haven't heard from one of them, ive seen him a few times by random chance but i haven't got a txt msg or phone call for 14 months, its pretty awkward now but ive decided ive got no time for people who have no time for me. Im not going to continue to put any effort in if im not getting any back. People are strange.
Experience the exact same thing which naturally is frustrating and is an indicator of an epidemic of narcissism. At some point reaching out first becomes a service I am willing to provide for the sake of demonstrating greater maturity and a greater good for the friendship but even then, they can sense that and will begrudge being asked to have any candid communication under suspicion you are behaving more givingly and maturely then they are. Generally they will respond by seeing if I will be willing to handle some overt type of disrespect if I try to maintain some type of regular contact of more than once a year. If you want to have a candid relationship with old friends I have found you need to validate an addiction of theirs and it needs to be convenient for them when you do it also. If they have more subservient ways of validating their unexamined tendencies they will do so at the expense of genuine candid interaction
Making friends is extremely easy when you're younger, and extremely harder the older you get. The real world is tough and people are selfish because society makes you that way, especially in the US. Friends usually cost money, and you have to trust that person won't screw you over if they get a chance. I'd suggest having 2 close friends and then having a good standing with multiple acquaintances, so your network is strong.
I disagree. I found finding aquantinces and friends easier as I got older because of gaining confidence. I also had social anxiety when I was in Middle/High school which prohibited me from exploring. Now, I don't even care anymore and find it a blast finding people who share similar experiences and hobbies!
@komplex6081 I hear you, I've never had problems making friends but, for me, it was easier in college. During HS, people are shy and less confident, but college people usually get more confident, not everyone though.
You would suggest that for what? Survival? So just gear your mind towards finding usefulness in relationships. Sounds pretty selfish maybe that's the problem.
It's quite a relief to hear this. I've struggled with male friendship all my adult life after about 18yrs old. I think I do have some social issue though as I used to not answer the phone because I'd be worried sick about what I'd talk about all day with whomever if we hung out.
I make sure to hug my 4-year-old son every day. I also don't have any friends. I want him to know I'll always be not just his father but his friend as well...
@@frankstallone3864i think it helps? Besides i know alot of men who dont get to see there kids grow up or not want to see there kids grow up so id take a friend for life from my dad.
That's lovely but been there done that and let me tell you things get different when your kids become adults, your relationship from adult to child changes and they no longer see you as they did when they were a child. You'll understand when the time comes, it's hard to put into words
I gave up on making friends years ago because men are flaky. You can have a great evening chatting with a bloke you met down the pub and exchange numbers and then when you text and say hey lets meet up and you get ghosted. I produce music as a hobby and have met blokes who do the same and I've genuinely wanted to meet up at a later date and exchange ideas and have been treated as if I'm weird for even contacting them. Maybe I just give off a vibe, who knows.
I agree with you a 100% I only chat with guys on the basketball court playing pickup ball. Anything outside of that guys would think that you weird or something. I haven’t had friends since I graduated college and I’m totally fine with that.
I learned I am autistic in my early 40's. Eye contact and small talk are near impossible. It is difficult to make friends without doing something with a goal or shared interest (sports are the best.) Getting a friendship to where it is lasting is near impossible because I don't interact in the "standard" method. I basically end up with short term acquaintances and nothing more, generally only while I serve a purpose. I have a STEM PhD and it is easier for me to teach class to 30-50 people than it is to approach one person I know nothing about. I have almost a second degree black belt and I can basically interact with people at the dojang in terms of learning but socially is very difficult. Unless I know my place I am beyond shy and will just try to disappear.
I was also diagnosed autistic in my 40s and I completely understand. I don’t understand small talk, including idle banter, and I end up being the one person in the room no-one’s talking to. I’m also not a ‘smiler’ even though I’m almost never angry, and I think it makes people feel like I’m cold, but I can’t fake a smile.
@@thefuturist8864 Yea, I have flat affect (no smile / resting bastard face from the amount of bullying I faced for being awkward and not understanding, I looked like I was 26 when I was 14) as well. I get the "you're intimidating" even at work from other people just as qualified as I am. As soon as someone talks to me for a while they generally can't believe what they are hearing because the physical stereotype / picture they formed doesn't match what they are hearing. This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time.
Yup. Approaching a stranger goes something like - what do I say to them - Oh god I've got to say something to them - but what - anxiety builds - there's the weather (boring) - there's 'how are you' - the anxiety builds a bit more. I start to want to escape but then feel ashamed of that. I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety disorder but there is overlap with Autistic Spectrum. The problem with small talk is it's an unstructured conversation with few sign posts and little information to guide the discussion. It also depends a lot on how expressive you are, something which Autistics and Social Anxiety sufferers struggle with. I think it's also somewhat harder for men on average, women are much more expressive in their communication style which is why it's said that men often bond around an activity.
@@bhe915This is me too. I also have the resting mean looking face and I'm not much of a smiler as my teeth are full of gaps and it's something I've always been conscious of. I looked like a 35 year old from the age of 17 which didn't help me. I'm only 4 years older than my brother who is a very young looking 38 year old, and recently when I'm out with him, people mistaken me for being his father. It's happened so many times recently. At every social function I'm always that guy standing by himself looking completely out of place.
men's sheds have been around for a long time, they're amazing. life changing for many older guys. the community benefits a lot because the old blokes can get a lot done, and they help all the locals fix things. it gives them back their place in the bigger picture.
When I was in my 20s and 30's, I didn't have many friends and they were all drinking friends then I stopped drinking and I didn't have any friends. I was wondering if there was something wrong with me. Now, I just don't care. I like being alone. I don't want friends anymore. I feel much more comfortable alone.
Hobbies are so important. We put them on hold to raise kids, and in doing so we role-model this behaviour to our kids. I believe that as a father it is my responsibility to show my kids that it is essential that I have hobbies and interests away from the home, with other adults. I play in a band and I ride motorcycles with friends. Facebook groups, when used well, are an excellent resource for connecting men with others interested in the same hobbies. It’s not selfish. It’s self care.
3 key reasons i hypothesize 1 men are naturally a little bit more of a loner than women to our own detriment 2 men are fear of coming off as weak an needy to other men admitting the longing for plutonic legitimate male comradery is often seen as weakness especially if your no longer a boy / teenager 3 men fear incurring homosexual misunderstanding, or any such awkwardness as overwhelmingly most friendless men are heterosexual or making friends with the wrong crowd (criminal. religious extremist, politically radical, frienemies/ opportunistic weirdos/sick-perverts or jus plain immature men an so on an so fourth.)
yeah a lot of Men don't empathize with each other and have only learned to value humor in friendships rather then integrity and loyalty. This isn't necessarily their fault, its the fault of their family, their fathers and mothers. It goes back man. Not everyone has the capacity to understand the importance, when they live in a world that praises materalistic gain over deep principles and community that tie us together. We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies. If it was a society we would be more closer, not as distant as we are now. Technology has evolved to further distract and divide us, to the benefit of the elite few.
2 and 3 are perfect examples of toxic masculinity, which has been completely misused on all sides. Men will sacrifice happiness and other important elements (friends, mental wellbeing etc) because of a perceived weakness and judgement from other men. The world would be much better if more men were confident and self assured in themselves. Ironically, a lot of men think toxic masculinity is actually just a criticism of masculinity itself, once again just proving a general inability to break free of a repeating cycle.
@@GUITARTIME2024 I think the concept of avoiding one on one male friendship because of “gay misunderstanding” is more of a projection than anything else. Anyone who feels that way or is worried about one on one male interactions probably needs to sort out some of their own sh**. And to be 100% honest I wouldn’t want to be around someone like that anyway because I’m drawn to confident and emotionally honest people.
When he said that hearing of someone who's lonely touches him differently/more than other types of suffering, I think one of the reasons he feels like that could be that the implication is that nobody cares about that person, or that they might be unlikeable. With other types of suffering, e.g. cancer, there are often people around who care for and support them, so it doesn't seem as sad perhaps as somebody who is lonely - who probably doesn't have anyone that cares enough about them (or that they care about) to share some quality time with them AND they obviously would like to and crave that connection (otherwise they wouldn't feel lonely)
I a man and 72. My experience is that men (at least single men in the U.S.) do not value other men. -- The reasons for that and the consequences of that can help explain a lot about why men are alone with no friends and are not married. -- No blame intended. Everyone does the best they know how.
What actually happens is your girlfriend freezes out your real friends & replaces them with the boyfriends of her friends. It’s like pod people. So, when the relationship ends you are on your own because you ignored your real friends. And you didn’t even know it happened.
You also have to spend a lot of time with other adults you don't necessarily have anything in common with when you have kids. By the time you've done all the kids stuff and friends of your wife you don't really have the bandwidth for anything else.
In my last relationship my gf always made fun of me for not having any friends. I had girl friends but no guy friends. I never talked about the girls. The day i made my first guy friend in years she became very jealous that we hungout out a lot and never wanted him around.
I had a close group of friends during my adolescence. Than we went to different colleges and lost track of each other. I ended up we just a close friend of that group because we lived in the same area and our colleges were next to each other. When we finished college we started working and we started to distance from each other, then came covid and we ended up further apart. Now we talk like one time every year just to wish a happy birthday to each other. Its difficult to make new friends. I think that technology and social media caused a lot of damage in people interactions. We tend to dedicate less time in person to our relationships, almost everything is done online. Its terrible.
When I was 15 my uncle asked me to count how many friends I had. I laughed when I ran out of fingers and said “I’ve got a ton of friends!” He smirked back at me and said “when you get older you’ll be lucky if you have 5 of those friends so choose wisely and cherish those friendships, it’s gets harder and harder to make friends as you get older.” He was 100% dead on.
My husband has no friends , what’s so sad is he is a nice guy . He has colleagues and acquaintances who are also nice guys . This is a tragedy / travesty .
I'm the same, no friends at all. I wake up, go to work, come home. I dread days off and annual leave because work is the only place I connect with people. If your husband is in the UK or even not, then I'd be more than happy to become friends with him
@@garyhalkon8749 im so sorry that’s awful for you . We live in Sydney Australia , so regretfully not in the UK . I will talk to him tonight about it when he gets home from work , but no promises Gary he may not as … I don’t know why , it seems to be a concrete wall he hits , when it comes to interaction . Which makes this all so very difficult . I really hate this for you guys , you are all really great guys . ( not just in intelligence and academics ) but you’re all witty ,funny and smart your thoughts and opinions are so important and relevant . What is happening in the world .
@@garyhalkon8749 hey 👋 im so sorry this is happening to you . I will tell my husband tonight after he gets home from work about you , you’re so cool ! But as you know it’s hard for him even if i reached out for him … there seems to be a real hard barrier that can’t be broken thru . All of you guys are so witty ,clever and so so funny . Sadly we are not in the UK but we live in Australia . Gary do you have a hobby ? I like art so ive joined 2 art groups on line . We zoom as a team as we’re all over the world . I know it’s not the same as in person but it’s a start in the right direction . Don’t be alone buddy you are too precious for that !!!!!
Don't feel bad. That's how I live too. I suspect once we get out of school it's our we spend our lives. It's funny, I was thinking earlier today about how people back in the tribe says probably felt a lot more connected..your surrounded by family, that all love each other, do their part to help out etc. not going to some random job and working for another tribe that doesn't give 2 shits about you besides are you working hard enough and bringing in enough money for his tribe. Humans are definitely not designed to operate as we are today. I don't think in the early days did we have drug issues, alcoholism, bankruptcy, divorces etc.
years ago i made a conscious/part unconscious decision to not get close to anyone anymore. i have friends, but it's casual, intermittent, and kept at arms reach. do i miss having a "brother-like" connection to a friend? sure, but my experience is that you cannot fully trust anyone and the risk is not worth it.
@@carlyellison8498 on one hand i agree. on the other, ive experienced such acute pain and stress from relationships (both plutonic and romantic) that, in spite of my best efforts to care for my health, i figure my odds of having a stroke, coronary, or cancer have increased greatly. as humans, we are flawed and giving that beautiful unconditional trust that is the benchmark of a "deeper friendship" is simply to much health risk IMO. i am a 51yo, married father of two...i have much love in my life, but battle scarred wisdom will get me a better chance at some form of inner peace before its done.
Yes it's true you can't trust anyone. And in the end they all.let you down. But then that negative cancels itself out. You go in "knowing how it works" and accept it for what it is...
@@successsystem2468 i can grasp that fine, youre right -but it's still not worth it to me, personally. i think on some level, many of us are perpetually heartbroken because we wanted (and expected) more from humanity -heart and honor among other traits. of course, that's not what we are. but alas, not to worry -it'll all be over soon enough. limping to the finish line....
Maintain the ones you have. Be available. Be real. Be kind. The closer all human relationships become the stronger and more sustainable humanity becomes
5:20 - " when a man says 'should i use the 5 iron ?' (while playing golf)....... what he is really saying is 'i love you' ". wow, very profound and true. in a very Aristotelian (Paltonic) way.
After the age of 45 - either All my friends have died- or have been completely consumed in family dynamics. The friends i do have are work related and although fine, the work experiences is so full of stress and endless work politics that any meaningful relationship outside of the work environment is not sustainable. Most men i know either become INVISIBLE OR FIND AN OUTLET IN NATURE- usually alone or possibly hiking or hunting groups, sporting activities,,even thst being said- it ends up being a dry or competitive head game. I have now evolved past having male friends, fins solace in educating myself in thousands of divergent interests and travel. Sadly- many men have zero levels of freedom. So they become cemented into a garbage apathy and loneliness derangement. Thats the facts of the first 25 years ofnthe 21st century. 💀
This sucks. I’m 56 and have experienced the same thing. Most of my former male friends are just empty dried husks of who they used to be. IDK if they are beaten down by spousal pressure or what. If you can’t find ANY time to carve out a few hours over the next six months on your schedule, to maintain a friendship, I guess we’re really not friends anymore. I have found out how to be 100% self reliant and do everything alone. Not by choice, but by necessity.
I suggest you start taking Testosterone and taking the gym incredibly serious as well. Many men are still very active, dating hotties, making money and enjoying freedom well into their golden years but you need the energy to do so. Find a very liberal TRT clinic and take a healthy dose of Testosterone, small amount of HGH and daily Cialis. You will be a brand new man.
I haven’t made any new friends in the last 15 years. I’m down to one left after all my other friends, including siblings, have passed away from disease, accidental death, and suicide. the one I have left lives 800 miles away. I’m only 36 and I’ve resigned myself to believing that this is what happens as you get older.
There cant be friendship in a world where everyone is aiming to reach perfection in life through career, money etc. We have been put in competition against each other...
Something I've noticed is how many women are increasingly controlling in marriage - like how many guys now feel that they have to ask permission to go do something outside the house besides work - and this is so common, it's normalized and people don't even question it. And it's often subtle, in that women say their husband can do whatever they want, but then they create a ton of problems and arguments if the guy tries to have any sort of life outside the family. Guys end up (often without realizing it's happening over time) going out less and less making it difficult to maintain friendships. Guys that are single tend to spend much more time with friends or doing their own stuff like hobbies or sports.
Yes and in my own experience isolate their partners due to their own psychological insecurities. The cure to that is to do exactly what you want and let the silent or what tactic comes your way slide off your back. Its funny how if you just maintain your own course the eventually respect you for it. If not then just get out. Life’s to short for coercive bullshit.
Many guys turn their sovereignty over to their spouse. “I gotta ask the old lady”. Most of it is that a lot of men can’t handle freedom. It is too heady an elixir.
After decades of having what I thought were friends, I came to the understanding that I haven't had a real friend since I was a child. For a man, no other man will come to your rescue, if there is any chance it will negatively affect them. Some guys will say that their friend would back them up in a fight but the reality is that the person they think is their friend is doing it out of self interest because they enjoy fighting
Isn't that what a friend is? Another person whose interests happen to align with our own? Actually asking. I do agree though, if I understand what you're saying, that every interaction is a transaction. What I'm trying to say is that, at heart, we are all selfish.
@@hapster22 I have associates who I share the same common interest with. I find that only sharing a common interest and nothing more, benefits me the most. So yes, I am more selfish now than I have ever been. I am alone more but not more lonely
📺 Watch the full episode here -
ruclips.net/video/_J1lFZEBq2Y/видео.html
THIS GUY IS OFF... ITS MORE GYNOCENTRISM AND HENCE WOMEN AND MEN TEND TO CARE MORE AND MORE ABOUT WOMEN AND WHAT THEY WANT, SO IN RELATIONSHIPS ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT THE WOMAN WANTS AND WHO SHE WANTS THE COUPLE TO SPEND TIME WITH! AND THE MAN IS WEAKENED, GUILTED AND THREATENED UNTIL HE BECOMES A SIMP THAT DOES THE SHIT SHE WANTS TO DO EACH WEEKEND... REAL MEN USED TO MEET UP REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR FOIDS WANTED! YOU SHOULD PRACTICE THIS! ITS WHAT THE MAN WANTS THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT NOW AND THEN THE RELATIONSHIP WILL SURVIVE AND THE MAN WILL HAVE FRIENDS BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE TIME FOR HIS FRIENDS!
Most of what we consider “friends” are really just “acquaintances” Real friendship requires openness and truly being yourself with your friends which sadly is very difficult to do nowadays because most “friends” are in competition with each other instead of getting each other’s backs.
This is so true. I've had my "friends" backs over and over again, and never had it reciprocated - so now I've given up
@@baustin11111 I did an experiment with people I thought would be in my life forever, well at the time it seemed so because we were in the service together. Sure enough after we all left and went our separate ways I pondered and every year I'd remember their birthdays and send them an email or text with a birthday wish and checking in on how life was. Sure enough, I did not receive any birthday wish or yearly message from any of them, only a response when I reached out on their birthdays. Then I stopped sending emails etc. and still to this day I wonder, do they even remember me? I don't beat myself up over it because to be honest my wife is my best friend and though its not bro time we enjoy most of our time with similar activities, we also have three young sons who I look forward to growing older with just so we can have grownup bro times of our own. Either way, never give up on yourself. There is always someone somewhere who will be by you one day, just let life happen naturally and by accident.
I’ve had more than a handful of people I thought were friends redefine our relationship.
Yep
Couldnt have said it better.. It goes As far As secret celebration or relief to them, when you suffer a set back. 🤔🤔.. So why have an enemy in your affairs??..
I got 3, all from high school time, I'm in my 50's. Talk to them every 5-10 years without fail.
5 to 10 years 😆
Sounds like the new universal truth mate
It's all about consistency.
I know exactly what you're talking about. Same story here.
The best friends are the ones with no expectation of your time but when you meet just carry on from where you left off, even if it’s decades apart.
I reached a point in my mid 40's somewhere where I realised I didn't have much to show for 25 years of friendships and gradually started investing less time in it. Friendship IS conditional, it is based on proximity, convenience and shared activities and even the closest friendship will be eroded given enough time of absence.
Agreed
I will disagree. My closest friends are in a different state. I left that state a decade ago. We only talk once every couple months, but as soon as we get in front of each other in person, it's like time has never passed, we go straight back to being 18 and in college again. We're all now in our 40s with kids. The rest are of that "acquaintance" group. We nearly have nothing in common are far as shared interests/careers. How do I know they are "real friends"? I recently went through hardship and each and every one of them lent me a shoulder to lean on and provided context and support when needed the most.
It's also nothing but another hobby or passion. Not a necessity.
Wow that really hit home. We tragically lost our 17yo son to suicide. In 6 days it will be 6 years ago. It changed those of us who were lucky/unlucky to remain lives forever. So much of what was discussed here hit home not only for my son but myself. His death resulted in the end of our marriage (there was no recovery). And now I am living a much lonelier life in my 50’s as a single male.
It is hard to make new friends and your comments about loneliness also hit home. I’ve never thought about the shoulder to shoulder concept. That makes so much sense.
Thank you for covering these vital topics 🙏
Strength to you Jamie, reading your message floored me with emotion. We lost our youngest daughter 2 years ago next month to suicide.
Keep going and try not blame yourself , it's hard but it helps.
Your courage to write this message helped me to respond.
Big handshake from the heart.
@@blairbrown7848 I embrace your handshake from the heart Blair. It’s a sorrow that only those who’ve been through it truly understand and that number is tragically way to high. Thank you for the courage to comment also. My thoughts & support are with you & your family ♥️
My sympathies Jamie. I lost my 18 year old son three years ago, in a car accident. Even still I know I can’t fully comprehend your loss. My marriage was already on the ropes and has since ended. The biggest challenge is that most of my current friends are still married, so limited time for outside activities. Having said that, I am doing my best to be active and still getting friend time in. Men need to be doing something in my experience, not a lot of heart to heart over coffee.
Gutted for you guys. Could not comprehend this. 🥲 🙏
That is certainly a terrible thing to have happen. As much as it is hard it's important for our own mental health if we get out there and at least try to meet others. I have found that they don't come to you. I always try and start with an interest group something I like doing and go from there.
What sad is his how often if you leave you job. You realize that those friends never talk to you again
So true. So true.
Which is why I prefer to be self employed
If that's the case then they never were friends to begin with.
Not friends just acquaintances.
it's a bit silly to consider workmates as friends
Yes, absolutely. The last time I got laid off I tried to stay in touch with them on social media and they made it clear they weren't interested in it. I've seen women do the same thing; women who used to have Girls' Nights with coworkers, splinter off and stop talking after the job is done.
I moved to the US after university for work. It was a shock to me as I was used going out a lot with my school friends. Once at the engineering office nobody went after work. It was very lonely, compounded by being in a new country. I learned I needed to be comfortable with my own company for long periods of time or I would go insane. This ability has insulated me from loneliness ever since. Nobody is coming to rescue you, you need to be able to climb the mountain alone if need be.
There is a UK Charity CALM - the Campaign Against Living Miserably that is try to reduce loneliness and reduce suicide particularly by men - I am sure there are similar organisations in the USA
cats and dogs and animals in general are the only things that love and appreciate us, if there was no animals i would exit this earth asap.
Even at college, engineering school is very lonely. People treat it in a very professional way. No chit chats or wasting other people's times unless you wanna establish a mutual beneficial partnership. Going out for the heck of going out is seen as a waste of time
Friendships die because a lot of men don't make any effort to actually maintain friendships. They put everything and anything before their friendships. I've had many friends over the years that I lost contact with because they wouldn't put any effort towards the friendship. Once I stopped calling or texting them, I never heard from them again.
Going through that exact thing at the moment, I noticed that unless I initiated contact I'd never hear from them, so I decided to see how long it would take before I heard from them if I just stopped.
It's been about 14 months now.
The last time I spent any time with one of them was when I flew him interstate to go watch a footy game, paid for his return flight, put him up accommodation wise at my mums place (we both stayed there) and even paid for his ticket to the game.
When we landed back home I decided that was when I would see how long it would take for him to contact me.
14 months later I haven't heard from him, we never had an argument or anything, we get along great, into the same sport obviously same music etc, we actually coached our kids together years back but he just won't go out of his way to initiate contact with me, I'm sure he's probably like that with everyone but I'm just sick giving and receiving no effort in return
Same sometimes I’m guilty of it though, I read a message when I’m in the middle of something and think “I’ll just do this and then I’ll reply back” then you realise “shit, I never replied back to them” like a week later or something and you sort of feel like you’ve left it a bit long and it’s kind of awkward now, so you just end up not responding
Or sometimes I think because I’m a socially anxious person sometimes I find it hard to judge my value or the level of a friendship and sometimes don’t want to start a conversation out of the blue because I sort of don’t want to embarrass myself overestimating our friendship level and end up thinking to myself “why would they be excited to hear from you? They’ve got loads of stuff going on in their life and probably have loads of other friends now” especially if it’s on social media and you’ve seen them talking about other friends or they’ve met up with people, cause you then start to think “well clearly they have close friends I’m not part of”
There have been instances where I am guilty of not making an effort but @ least for me it is driven by the idea that I question those connections & never really know that friendship is wanted with me, there there must be some other reason they are engaging me, well until they don't. Largely I suspect its transactional or that they just lack the front to tell me to f-off.
I am 53 now & I can recall when I had a friend it would of been in my early 20ies. I have not really had anything to do with a woman for more than 20 years & I really have no enthusiasm to want to have anything to do with them again. I miss them, I just don't miss the fuckery & drama. So it is something that continues to not get resolved.
I am not the type to suicide, I tell people it is spite & resentment for the human condition that has had me commit to living as long as possible.
The separation that I have had a hand in too, but not only, is always there & I wish I could just lose the awareness that it is there because I have no solution to it.
This is the truth.. we as men complain about our friendships but don’t help maintain them
I stopped calling them, never heard of them since
I have a like 6 fantastic mates and the only reason i have these guys, is because these guys appreciate the talks, brutal honesty and friendship we share for eachother. Talk to your brothers guys, real deep talk. We need it.
I think that it's hard to find people on the same page. I like deep talk, but is my deep talk and yours the same as yours? A great video is the TED talk of Barbra Sher "Isolation is the dream Killer". I want to start a group but I'm not sure how to even get people to join.
Do an experiment and don't make any contact with them and see how long it takes for them to contact you.
A lot of guys these days only see the world through egotistical means, "how can this dude add value to my life" etc. This decline of men in society is only going to get worse. Women truly are the kryptonite of men.
I used to have a number of men friends. As I got older I realized I was the only one that put the effort in to the friendship. It is what it is. I don’t waste my time anymore.
Absolutely agree, and have moved away from all of my "friends" over the past couple of years.
Sucks! Doesn't it. I quip about coming up to the door, rapping the door, no answer? I'm out. On to the next house.
I met someone at the gym years ago and we hit it off. We became workout partners and then close friends. We both talk frequently even though we don’t live very close to each other anymore and we both have this relationship where we trust each other implicitly. I can’t tell you how much I value this relationship because I now know how rare it is to have someone you trust that much and know you could depend on if you needed to.
I’ve come to realize you don’t need a ton of friends but having a few close ones is worth it and it takes a lot of time and proper boundaries to find them.
Aye! Thats how a meaningful friendship looks, its invaluable :D
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless. And they used to work six days a week back then, but they still had the time for socializing.
No Internet, TV or smartphone. Socializing was only way of entertainment.
Think of the ramification of that: If men mostly hang out with guys, and it tends to create tension with girls, what happens when we go from all male to 50/50 workplaceS? It means 100% to 50% of potential friendships reduction. Not many hang out with opposite gender and if they have a partner it will not be so popular. So that is a huge one. Same goes for women when they were home wives.
Radio, cinema, magazines, newspapers, hobbies. All worthwhile in the past.
Hard to make lasting relationships when the only thing in common is the 0's and 1's bouncing across the internet.
I think more present fathers have also effected the dynamic. Like you said the men were working a lot while the women tended to the children. I work in a clinical environment and I cannot tell you how many old men have stories about working then going drinking at the local bar and just getting into shenanigans. Now-a-days I feel people rush home before the kids go to bed just to get a bit of time with them. Obviously it’s amazing that men are trying to be more present but of course everything has trade offs.
Sometimes after work I drive to a store and sit in the parking lot because im not ready for the day to be done and go home and be alone.
I do the same thing sometimes
:(
Guys, that’s rather upsetting. Make an effort to join a group related hobby, sport or social activity. Just get amongst people and find your tribe - they’re out there waiting for you.
get a cat, they're awesome!
Same. I have started volunteering on evening and weekends, never know who you will meet volunteering.
The shoulder to shoulder thing is real...some of the realest conversations I've ever had was while driving or sitting at a bar or walking/hiking/running
Wow thought same
I’m a veteran, have tattoos, workout a lot (bro lift and run and bike). But I don’t connect with other men because I don’t like watching sports, I don’t drink, I don’t play video games, and I don’t gamble. Most guys I know are obsessed with those things.
You just described me…figured it was just me - I don’t fit in - i mountain bike- but when weather is bad I’m in my garage tinkering with my old car projects 👍
Just say you don't want to talk to people there are plenty who don't do that
@ not sure how you got that
A lot of dudes especially vets are into working out. 🤷♂️
@ and?
I am so thankful for my 2 guy friends, we share everything and have deep talks. Their friendship saved me many times. I don't know where I'd be without their support.
You're blessed. Having true friends like that is hard to find these days as everyone seems to only care about themselves.
@@gordongray9166 I agree, I really am blessed
@@gordongray9166 That sword cuts both ways
Social Media is at the core of most of societies issues today.
@redwatch1100 nail on the head my friend. Sad times
@@sij809 💯
No, don’t blame “social media”.
It’s economics, neoliberalism, feminism, big government, etc.
Going back to nature and nature’s ways would help.
Would add to that the decline (outlaw) of male space is the elephant in the room as well
@@SS-qk8oc Lol don't blame anything. Men have always been emotionally more immature than women. Men will complain about being lonely but then if someone asks them to hang out - grab a beer or something, it's weird. This stuff is really simple, but especially in the west men just refuse to grow up.
There is a steep learning curve to knowing real friends from acquaintances, but men can definitely have real friends.
Speak for yourself. I got a homie and going by what I see in these comments I can tell why they don't have any friends.
When did he say they couldn’t? Low level comprehension or something?
I made friends with an old homeless fella, who lived under the overpass near me, in Yokohama. About 12 years ago, when I first moved here and I passed him on the way to the station, he'd shout "Ringo Starr!" which made me chuckle. When family and friends were over from England, I'd made a point of stopping to say hello to him and saying "who do I look like?", and when he said "Ringo Starr, Beatles!" they'd be in stitches as well. So, from buying him a bottle of water on hot days, popping in the convenience store for him if he was hungry, buying him a pocket transistor radio and gloves for Christmas and stuff like that, I got to know him a bit better. I haven't seen him for a few months now, his mobility was becoming chronically bad, and I think he's been taken off the streets by the authorities. I always look around the underpass on the way to the station, but I sadly don't really expect he'll come back. Friendship developing has no chance unless the two potential friends are prepared to find a bit of time for each other though.
GBU. Good on you.
He dead bro
@avairal5936 I was gonna say, even in Los Angeles it was still hypothermia weather at night even as of 2 months ago. When it rains, people die of hypothermia, but people also die of it from the dew if they don't have a tent AND a sleeping bag. Anything below 50 degrees is hypothermia, but the 50s is also hypothermia weather, except it takes 3-6 hours to die of hypothermia versus 3 hour or less in the 40s
The kindness you showed. Wish more people would do the same. Myself included.
Incremental femini*t belief system has branched off into patriarchal control of a variety of things that men do or are going to do. Treating a woman like a queen at the expense of the man's mental health is an involuntarily narcissistic short or longterm plan it seems.
I'm not just a Uniform
Having friends that have your back in tough times is truly a blessing. If you have a family like that as well you’re one of the wealthiest persons on the planet.
I'm a gas engineer and the amount of blokes and women that open up to me when I'm working is unreal.
Makes me happy to know I've helped them in some small way.
100% I’m a professional carpenter and maintenance man I feel what you said 200% .
I have stories that would blow ur mind
@@Bart-Did-itPlease do share some, sir. I’m curious.
@@southlondon86 no mate breach of trust doing it like this pub n a beer let it flow .
As a 50+ Aussie male who grew up in the country, I can easily name 10+ guys I grew up with died by suicide in their teens & 20’s. Well before mental health was acknowledged. I truly hope my son’s generation follows a different path
Aussie here too. I've had a similar amount. It's a tragedy truly.
Yep, definitely agree .. also Aussie and right on point. The “macho men do not cry drink your your beer and man up” culture did not help … fortunately times are changing … mental health really only is being talked about post Covid
Lived in Perth for 12 years, the way it is here is one big race to the top, by snitching and back stabbing rather than hard work. It means that people you work with are colleagues and not work-mates, it's very sad.
@@JamesG89 it was the same here in Melbourne. bunch of back stabbers
I worked Fifo. Never been more miserable in my life. The isolation and the enforced masculinity
I'm Australian, 56 years old and the Mens Shed is probably the best thing EVER for men, especially as it focuses on middle aged + men, sometimes divorced, widowed etc. Loneliness is the biggest Killer in our modern society. I could talk for hours on this subject, but this video, even though the tip of the Ice Berg is straight to the point, and I am grateful. Love Your Work!
I'm thinking some "women's rights" activists will start protesting soon, gain entry, and ruin it for men.
Mens shed started here south Wales UK five years ago during COVID. Fantastic and it's thriving and helping lots of men in my local area. Thank you Australia.
Doesn't have to be old huys only young guys need friends and to learn aswell
The latter part of the conversation with regards to men taking their own lives is so important. I work at a crematorium in UK as a gardener (but also help work the chapel and the machines also) and you would be surprised at how many young men we receive. I see the families that pass through the chapel and the impact it has on them. As someone who has suffered with depression at times in my life, the one common theme is always the feeling of being useless or not of need. We as a planet have to halt this phenomenon. We’ve become more connected than ever through our phones and technology, yet we are now more separated as a result. I hope we can find a solution before more lives are cut short.
Yep … the value of human life has cheapened driven by corporate profits and political self interest… erosion of national values, globalization of manufacturing, social media etc 😢 I am in my 40s and feel very lucky to have had my teenage years in the 90s with real friends and those holiday adventures away from screens
It is identification with the mind, which has evolved into an utter beast in humans. It does not have 'your' best interests at heart. Stifle it by watching it.
I’m so lucky to have my girlfriend of 12 years. She’s my best friend we never fight. My brother also is a blessing no one will understand the bond. It’s truly sad that male bonding is dead.
Talking about the 2 most used words with men taking their own lives..
I have those exact inner thoughts and feelings and I have been struggling with it for some years now.
I was watching while going for a walk and I just started crying because the person you're describing is me
❤
I am a male of 68 years, this has been brought up recently by a very dear classmate at our 50th high school reunion. A subject I most definitely need to research more. Great content as always, will listen in on the entire interview. Thank you.
Thank you sir
I was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s, retired now. From my perspective society seems much more competitive and status oriented than ever before. People are more judgmental, hot tempered and generally egotistical. The term “road rage” didn’t exist when was young. It’s fairly common now. I see all kinds of weird forms aggression on the road when driving. Generally, people seemed more friendly, humble, thoughtful and kind when I was young. It’s a more hostile world today. On the why end of things. As I said previously, I think it is the pursuit of status, wealth and material things. That combined with an immersion into on-line worlds of fantasy. Everyone one is involved with that and avoiding actual one-on-one interaction with people.
I just retired too. A few things were different back then. People were not so rude and selfish. Public idiocy was not tolerated well. If you “got in someone’s face” or treated another with the level of disrespect I see in society today, you would be eating knuckles and picking your teeth up off the ground for dessert. There are zero consequences for people’s behavior now.
It’s way more likely that you just don’t like video games.
Totally agree. I grew up in 80s 90s
Spot on
@seadee2834they don’t realise how lonely they’ll still be even with Mr Dubai Private Jet
Social life will never be the same
If you grew up Gen x etc you experienced community ,
Fridays we would go down town , meet up at pizza places , cruise around in cars , go to parties , swim in the river , and finally we did match making for each other ❤
Very relatable
What changed?
Technology
And the world is less of a friendly place
Before social media you had to go meet up in person
Eg you would go to the arcade to play video games we did not have Xbox
If you wanted to meet a guy you had to show up at the keg party 😅
We didn’t have cameras all over and cell phones
Of you were bored you would go to the local convenience store and chat with the guy that worked there
The economy was locally based
Everything and everyone was tied together
If I were to tell friends now - meet me down at the river , being an inner tube, tie a 6 pack to it
People would be afraid
Someone would take a picture now
No more what happens down at the river is our business
Watch older movies like the Breakfast club or dazed and confused and see the them and now
I encourage everyone to try to have a meet up in person
Make friends at a local pub
Join a hiking group etc
Volunteer just be a part of something ❤️
If you really want some fun get a group of ppl and play a card game or board game
I played 500 rummy with family recently and we had a blast like old
Times
Steven Bartlett sat in the front row at The Comedy Store whilst I was the MC, I had no idea who he was but the entire audience did 😂 Glad you covered this topic here, life gets harder for men as we get older, and not all men can cope with the emotional difficulties of loneliness, but those who can and do, are able to help provide insight into uplifting ourselves. Ultimately, it all begins within, for all relationships are transactional, and every man has his gift to give the world.
I have 3 real friends. All of them from my college years when i was 16-20 years old. Men usually make lasting friendships during this age. Everyone else they come across after that especially at work are just acquaintances. Ive lived in another country for 20 years, but i still keep in contact with my friends at home and we get together to talk about the good old days every time I visit. It never gets old😊
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless.
bot account
@@frankstallone3864 What the hell are you talking about?
The "face to face" vs "shoulder to shoulder" topic was interesting. What if it's a subconscious side effect from centuries of warfare. If we're "face to face" we're enemies, but if we're "shoulder to shoulder" we're allies. Just an idea.
I believe that's the idea. That's why he mentioned the increase in cortisol when men speak face to face. Part of the fight or flight response.
In typical conversation, two men will not face each other directly, but more at 45 degree angle.
I dig it
Once men get married, they tend to disappear into that bubble. Marriage has become very insular in modern times, where it used to be more of a community. I remember my grandparents always had people from the neighborhood coming by and also extended families tended to live close by. Now we barely know the people next door in many cases and live hours away from extended family. I've also noticed few men have interests or hobbies outside of their job and watching TV when they get home. Outside interests are a great way to meet friends-I've played in bands for years and met some great guys that way.
Absolutely. Being used by your employer, living in splendid isolation with your spouse, don't speak to the neighbours next-door etc. Joining clubs helps if you've got the energy and your wife doesn't play up too much accusing you of seeing a girlfriend
@@billyliar1614the accusations lead to divorce. Result is single and lonely again
@@STMARTIN009 If you are lonely with your own company, then I would say that the problems lie within, not without. Another person cannot enable you to come to terms with the solitary nature of existence. Tolerating a bad relationship just to avoid that painful reality will not help you, in fact if you haven't dealt with it, the irony is you will be more likely to end up in an unsatisfying relationship. You have to be sufficient within yourself
Being married turned from being a caring father and husband into a Pack Mule. I know I put my family before myself so much that I forget to do anything else.
I’m a single woman and I noticed that my married friends have friends, but their husbands don’t really have friends. They just hang out with their wife and sometimes their wife’s friends in a group setting.
My brother took his life last year, and while i try to be open about that, and i am more open then most, I still find the words to tangle out of my mouth.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I live with someone who is extremely suicidal and prefers hiding in bed all day, pretty sure he’s only staying alive to not upset me and his mom, extremely anhedonic. It’s very difficult to understand or make sense. His best friend of 30 years took his own life last year after losing his wife to cancer.
I have no friends anymore, I’m convinced it’s because I quit drinking and drugs. I’ve never felt so alone in my life.
Who ever said drugs were isolating never got into drugs. Isolation from family yes. But not alone like I am now.
Loneliness over drugs, it’s a better life.
After being disappointed and disrespected by many former "friends" I'm okay by myself. I enjoy my own company. My family and my cats are enough for me.
@@AnnaAtl So true
Definitely understand especially during the Convid years
The cats are the main thing bro. Cats are beings of perfection - that's why the hatred of them
All my “friends” told me i deserve to lose my job over the mandates. One even told me i should be thrown into a prison camp
Sorry you went through that. I’ll never forgive those that caused all the madness. Keep those who listened to you closer as I have done.
Coworkers are NOT your friends 😒 ............
This is why I hate working for companies today. This use to be true in the past. The lack of moral values has made most corporate culturea very toxic.
WOW, isn't that the truth !
you got that right. in most cases they are not to be trusted.
I've worked with female colleagues who have developed proper friendships with other females at work, in the sense that they meet up outside of work, go out socialising together etc. I've not seen it happen much with men
@@johnnynephrite6147NEVER socialise with coworkers, a very big mistake, they all have a knife kit, trust me on that
The prerequisite to FRIENDSHIP is to be FRIENDLY.
I think a lot of people throughout the course of their lives unfortunately forget this basic fact.
Not really, I'm 47 and I have found all my life that antisocial people tend to be held in high regard and always have tons of followers, even ones who've done prison time for rape, assault, stalking etc.
Conscientious people do *not* have that automatic 'clout' and worship everywhere they go.
Maybe Canadians are just degenerates, who knows.
I'll be honest, I never understood the need for friendship or even socialising. I do it because it is expected, but I prefer to be on my own, and I seem to have no interest in other people, which makes all my relationships extremely shallow. I prefer the company of my dogs. Relationships with women apart from their suffocating neediness often suck precicely because they crave to be social. I suffer through all that for mainly the sex. I don't remember a time I felt lonely, but I did see it in my dog, which is why I rescued another dog to keep her company.
@@Brakka86 Nothing wrong with natural introversion. Only problem is that in our culture, young women find it unacceptable so young guys have to tolerate image-based pecking-order crap just to attract a dumb female :)
I guess … I dunno , kinda seems like a 2 dimensional outlook though. I think it’s more complicated than that. People are complicated.
I’m generally like that now. Mainly due to not enough time and my hobbies and family taking the remaining free time. My wife understands me enough that we live comfortably and I’m so grateful to have her but she suckers me into her social endeavors and I always feel like a pay a big price out of my mental energy. It’s hard for others to fully understand this.
To be friends, you have to be peers first. If one has power over the other, no friendship is possible.
God bless you guys.
I’m 29 and have the benefit of working with older people and I’ve learned that many wish they didn’t lose connection with their friends through the years. It’s made me double down on mine.
I had a cigar and bourbon with my two neighbors the other day. One is 45 and the other 55. You could tell it meant the world to both of them that we meet up to smoke a cigar once in a while. One cried while sharing about his deceased father and the other said how much it meant that he counted us as friends. It saddened me to learn neither has a group of good friends.
A true friend feels like being in the room with your self, hopefully you love your self.
Profoundly simple yet powerful sentiment.
That hits deeeeep..
As a 40 year old male in the US, I have zero close friends. It's been this way for years maybe since I was in my late 20's.
My experience in relationships has been that the woman I’m with expects to be the priority at every moment, and any time with attention on someone/something else is a detriment to the woman’s needs. It’s beyond codependency, it’s a built in expectation with women, and it’s isolated men for generations.
Yep. Men get a gf or wife and you never see them again
Same, it really bothers me that my Friends are now missing, they have girlfriends and they disappear
Those are controlling women. You are picking them like that, most of the time it's got something to do with an unhealthy relationship with your mother.
There are tons of non-controlling women out there, you just need to figure out what *you* are doing wrong when you go after a woman.
I have had friends in those relationships but was never in one myself - I can see those women from a mile away, because they *don't* act like my stable and mentally healthy mom or sister who I grew up around.
@@bbainter7880 well said, but also easier said than done. It took me 6 years (from 42 to 48) to understand and undo the damage caused by my cruel, abusive and narcissistic mother. She’s been a curse on my family and ruined every aspect of our lives. As children we were programmed to accept and normalize selfishness, cruelty and neglect…. And that’s what I looked for in women as an adult thinking it was normal and ok. I’m finally with a beautiful and loving woman and have zero contact with my mother.
That’s on you for not putting the boundary.
Too much competition, insecurity, and comparisons. When I realized this was going on with some of my oldest friendships I let them go. Someone I knew from age 10 was undermining my confidence intentinoally, playing a game of I'm better than you, I'm more successful than you. This happened with a college professor friend later in life very disappointing. I think it's about the ego and a willingness to let go of it. The ego always wants to prove it is better, it is right, but the ego is not who we are it's just a fabrication we have created of the world and how we think we fit inside it.
Thank God I still have a few.. long time friends, we would fight thru fire for each other. God bless em!
People these days are so fucking transactional, you’re only kept around as long as you’re useful.
If you lose the utility your “friendship” is valued at near zero.
(edit) someone is threatening me and I could use some votes on my community page on what to do if you have time. 😪
Agreed I said this the other day , I always showed up did what I could to help friends . When I went through a hard time watched everyone of my friends leave at some point except 2 ( true mates ) people only want you around on their terms and what you offer for them . World sucks .
Individualism at its peak
One of the books on my reading list is called: "Games that people play" by Eric Berne. It's about Transactional Analysis.
Yeah, it's often transactions. Sadly a lot of people like to just take and rarely give back.
Yea 100% spot on, agreed
Yes, lately i've dropped out of my music band because they have said I'm sounding like sh!t and they forbid me to play, week before our first gig (even thou only two of fourteen set tracks were half baked). One of these guys I have thought of as a pretty close friend and he did nothing to sort things out (even taking in consideration that he was the leader), also they used me by taking some of my money to pay for few things (luckly not much) because all of them are living almost on debt.
Loneliness eats you from the inside out, leading to thoughts of self-harm.
So true.
I dont have any friends because I witnessed multiple instances where people close to me flip a switch and turn into complete two-faced backstabbers. Multiple instances where I needed help and they turned me away, realizing people don't practice what they preach and morality is only present when it's convenient
What was the common denom8nator in all those friendships that went bad......? You.
Somehow americans switch to a mentality where every man is every other mans enemy. It wasn't like that for boomers. It all started with gen X as the 80's brainwashed every american male into thinking he was rambo or arnold shwarzenegger. It is even worse now for younger generations with smart phones and social media.
@davidtomkins4242 sure blame the victim buddy!
@@idontcare9797 truth hurts!
@@davidtomkins4242 you have a normie take on situations
I'm 41, lately noticed people kinda think I'm weird, I suspect because I talk their ear off, I like people but never actually hang out with anyone anymore so that's why, is what it is.
Bro copletely hit the nail on the head, we have to have shared interests and things to do and thats how we bond.
Less friends, less bull shit. There’s a difference between loneliness and solitude. I am never lonely because I enjoy my solitude.
One can have both. I also like my solitude, I live alone and I spend a lot of time alone. I still have and enjoy friends though. Just less frequently than most do. I do however agree that there is a large and important difference between loneliness and solitude.
I never got married. One by one as my friends all got married, they dropped off. Especially after having kids. I ran into trouble with several of their controlling wives that wouldn’t let them out of the house and they were too weak to stand up to them.
I kept trying to maintain the friendship by getting together once a month. When that didn’t work, I tried quarterly, then every six months and finally once a year before I wrote them off. It pissed me off and also hurt.
They were guys I used to hang out with several times a week. Finally I just politely said, “I know you are really busy with life. I would really like to maintain a friendship with you. The ball is in your court, give me a call some time, I’d love to get together again.” Never heard back from any of them.
You are apparently blind to the amount of time parents have if they work full time and their children are young. The wives are not controlling. The wives have every right to want their husbands to spend time with their kids and contribute to housework/yard work. It is time to grow up and realize that most of your friends are probably not getting even six hours of sleep a night if their kids are young. Think again about their priorities and you might understand why the men choose to back their wives if you have the attitude that those wives are "controlling". In addition, the men may have come to the decision that they have grown apart from you, a former friend. They moved on in life. You did not.
@@alexr6114 😅🤣😂 if you think “sacrificing” two or three hours once a year entirely planned well in advance on your own schedule is too much to ask there is something wrong.
@@alexr6114 i see the same in my life, my friends cant go anywhere but their wives come and go as they please, i was friends with a bunch since i was 12, we all grew up got married etc, now the wives are the friends and do stuff together and we don;t , we try but there is always a reason that they cant due to plans that pop up after our plans we make, its driven our friendships apart.
I find when women control men its classed as under the thumb, when men do it, its toxic controlling behaviour , women make time for one and other, men don;t
Nah @@alexr6114
@@alexr6114 I have seen many married couples and seen this similar excuse given.
However, that seems to be the case for only men though. The women always have plenty of time to chat with THEIR friends and meet with their friends and have girls night out, etc.
If a guy tries that, she will CLAIM she is ok with it but you can see from her facial expressions and her behavior after that she is clearly not.
The guys just take the path of least resistance and just comply with whatever the woman wants. Honestly, I cannot blame them, it is just easier that way.
Last best friend i had was when i was up to the age of 15. Im 43 now & have lots of acquaintances. I just dont let people get close enough anymore. Trust issue i guess. I only feel comfortable with my wife & kids & brother & close family
I think that's okay.
Sometimes there s no more "space" for more, especially when we have work and family to attend too.
Same. So many “friends” that I have emotionally really invested in, sometimes prioritised them over my family turned out to be very very disappointing.
So no more wasting time on this non sense. Prioritise your family.
@@ParkerPennies ❤️
There’s nothing wrong with that, man. I choose time with my family over friends almost every time. It was our choice to start a family.
Coming out of COVID, many of us started looking for in-person connection again. I knew I couldn't get my friends to come over, sip beer, and talk about their lives, so board games became a reason to gather. The game was the excuse, but the conversations around the table was the goal. It's worked surprisingly well for years now.
This is Gods work you’re doing right here my friend. So many men go unheard because they hold it in. But If you’re reading this everything is going to be alright. Just keep pushing forward. Godspeed.
Because we live in a society where you’re in a hamster wheel for 90 hours a week just to be able to afford a house.
Homo economicus. Working 3 times as hard to afford 3 times less than our grandparents did due to the inflation of an unsustainable fiat currency, egged on by women who thinks everything they see on social media is attainable via you, the man who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, hasn't the time or energy for friends just for her to claim she's independent, doesn't appreciate his efforts anyway and could probably just go and do onlyfans without any shame whatsoever.
Imagine how easy life would be if born female and beautiful
yup
Agreed, and would add that I suspect it's not depression/mental health for men in most cases, but rather despair at facing an insurmountable problem eg. job loss, debt, divorce, child custody battles, genetics affecting relationship prospects... that leads to an untimely end.
It's sad but true, and then we only get 5-10 years to live if we are lucky and we are old with broken bodies wishing we could do it all sooner.
Not exactly. 100 plus years ago food wasn't prevelant like is it today. You would work all day to grownor put food on the table. Many went to town once a month or if lucky once a week.
I haven’t had a friend since 2014. I used to have 3-4 good male friends as a teen and into my early 20’s but once I moved to another state, I never made a friend, and the old friendships fell off as we never saw each other and lived 20 hours away.
It’s probably the thing I miss the most, having other guys who share similar experiences and interests.
Honestly, every GD day is so packed & busy, I truly wouldn't know where to find the energy + time to make that happen.
I read a quote once that said "True friendships survive time, distance and absence." I have a best friend that I met when I was an Army officer stationed in Germany. She was a British woman married to another Army officer. Within 5 minutes of meeting we just clicked and a week later had become good friends. That rapidly became best friends. That was in 1991. We are still best friends despite having lived most of our lives on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean. We write, email, text and Skype. Now that our children are grown we get together for a week long trip once or twice a year. I'm so lucky to have found her long after the time most friendships are made.
I’m my own best friend and that means I look after myself. I don’t really expect much from others so I’m never disappointed.
An acquaintance is someone you have a beer with at the bar. A friend is the one that rings you up to invite you to the bar. One is happy to see you, the other makes the effort to hang out with you
It's the "making the effort" part that men seem to struggle with.
They're fine if you're already at the bar, but if they have to arrange for you to meet them there or take you there, they can't be bothered
I know too many people like this. Never contact you , but happy to talk if they run into you. Lockdown was a big eye opener in that regard. The older I get, the more I think that people are ‘ out of sight, out of mind’
Sometimes it’s better to have no friends than the wrong friends
Sure, but that is not what’s happening.
Men's sheds have been revolutionary in Australia. They are everywhere. Major cities to small country towns in the middle of nowhere. They keep men connected, especially in small towns where traditional connectors have slipped due to population movement. They should be a global thing, as they not just impact the people but the wider communities.
He's absolutely right about being shoulder to shoulder with men. I remember going out snowplowing with my best friend at night, just sitting in his truck and talking while he plowed snow. or we go snowmobiling together, or fishing, or doing some kind of work. Those were some of the best times I ever had spending with a friend. We were always doing something.
Ive had the same 3 best friends for a while. Met the first in Kindergarten, the 2nd in 1st grade, and the 3rd in 3rd grade. I just turned 28. Still talk to each of them at least once a week. True friendships take work and dedication, but I truly appreciate the fact I still have close relationships with them. They've helped me get through so much in life.
Got 1 true friend, I'm grateful for that
I'm currently in the middle of an experiment i decided to run.
I noticed that i only communicated with and saw my 'friends' if i initiated contact with them, so i decided to see how long it would be before i heard from them if i just stopped making contact.
Its been over 14 months now and haven't heard from one of them, ive seen him a few times by random chance but i haven't got a txt msg or phone call for 14 months, its pretty awkward now but ive decided ive got no time for people who have no time for me.
Im not going to continue to put any effort in if im not getting any back.
People are strange.
Experience the exact same thing which naturally is frustrating and is an indicator of an epidemic of narcissism. At some point reaching out first becomes a service I am willing to provide for the sake of demonstrating greater maturity and a greater good for the friendship but even then, they can sense that and will begrudge being asked to have any candid communication under suspicion you are behaving more givingly and maturely then they are. Generally they will respond by seeing if I will be willing to handle some overt type of disrespect if I try to maintain some type of regular contact of more than once a year. If you want to have a candid relationship with old friends I have found you need to validate an addiction of theirs and it needs to be convenient for them when you do it also. If they have more subservient ways of validating their unexamined tendencies they will do so at the expense of genuine candid interaction
Same thing with me.
Making friends is extremely easy when you're younger, and extremely harder the older you get. The real world is tough and people are selfish because society makes you that way, especially in the US. Friends usually cost money, and you have to trust that person won't screw you over if they get a chance. I'd suggest having 2 close friends and then having a good standing with multiple acquaintances, so your network is strong.
I disagree. I found finding aquantinces and friends easier as I got older because of gaining confidence. I also had social anxiety when I was in Middle/High school which prohibited me from exploring. Now, I don't even care anymore and find it a blast finding people who share similar experiences and hobbies!
@komplex6081 I hear you, I've never had problems making friends but, for me, it was easier in college. During HS, people are shy and less confident, but college people usually get more confident, not everyone though.
You would suggest that for what? Survival?
So just gear your mind towards finding usefulness in relationships. Sounds pretty selfish maybe that's the problem.
you spend way too much time online. this really isn't the reality of how the world works
@user-ss9wg2yq3o I'm rarely online and this is how the real world works. What part of my statement is not true, I can't wait to read your response?
Big lump in my throat watching this 😢
Much love to us all
It's quite a relief to hear this. I've struggled with male friendship all my adult life after about 18yrs old.
I think I do have some social issue though as I used to not answer the phone because I'd be worried sick about what I'd talk about all day with whomever if we hung out.
I make sure to hug my 4-year-old son every day. I also don't have any friends. I want him to know I'll always be not just his father but his friend as well...
Thats good, man
You aren't supposed to be his friend.
@@frankstallone3864i think it helps? Besides i know alot of men who dont get to see there kids grow up or not want to see there kids grow up so id take a friend for life from my dad.
That's lovely but been there done that and let me tell you things get different when your kids become adults, your relationship from adult to child changes and they no longer see you as they did when they were a child.
You'll understand when the time comes, it's hard to put into words
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I know exactly what you mean!
I gave up on making friends years ago because men are flaky. You can have a great evening chatting with a bloke you met down the pub and exchange numbers and then when you text and say hey lets meet up and you get ghosted. I produce music as a hobby and have met blokes who do the same and I've genuinely wanted to meet up at a later date and exchange ideas and have been treated as if I'm weird for even contacting them. Maybe I just give off a vibe, who knows.
I agree with you a 100%
I only chat with guys on the basketball court playing pickup ball. Anything outside of that guys would think that you weird or something. I haven’t had friends since I graduated college and I’m totally fine with that.
Sounds like you're trying to fuck em
Men are shit friends indeed.
Is it possible they think you're gay? Just a thought. Do you make sure to mention a gf or wife?
Yh same for me lol
I learned I am autistic in my early 40's. Eye contact and small talk are near impossible. It is difficult to make friends without doing something with a goal or shared interest (sports are the best.) Getting a friendship to where it is lasting is near impossible because I don't interact in the "standard" method. I basically end up with short term acquaintances and nothing more, generally only while I serve a purpose. I have a STEM PhD and it is easier for me to teach class to 30-50 people than it is to approach one person I know nothing about. I have almost a second degree black belt and I can basically interact with people at the dojang in terms of learning but socially is very difficult. Unless I know my place I am beyond shy and will just try to disappear.
“Unless I know my place I will try to disappear”. I feel this deeply. This has been me in every single interaction of my entire life.
I was also diagnosed autistic in my 40s and I completely understand. I don’t understand small talk, including idle banter, and I end up being the one person in the room no-one’s talking to. I’m also not a ‘smiler’ even though I’m almost never angry, and I think it makes people feel like I’m cold, but I can’t fake a smile.
@@thefuturist8864 Yea, I have flat affect (no smile / resting bastard face from the amount of bullying I faced for being awkward and not understanding, I looked like I was 26 when I was 14) as well. I get the "you're intimidating" even at work from other people just as qualified as I am. As soon as someone talks to me for a while they generally can't believe what they are hearing because the physical stereotype / picture they formed doesn't match what they are hearing. This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time.
Yup. Approaching a stranger goes something like - what do I say to them - Oh god I've got to say something to them - but what - anxiety builds - there's the weather (boring) - there's 'how are you' - the anxiety builds a bit more. I start to want to escape but then feel ashamed of that. I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety disorder but there is overlap with Autistic Spectrum. The problem with small talk is it's an unstructured conversation with few sign posts and little information to guide the discussion. It also depends a lot on how expressive you are, something which Autistics and Social Anxiety sufferers struggle with. I think it's also somewhat harder for men on average, women are much more expressive in their communication style which is why it's said that men often bond around an activity.
@@bhe915This is me too. I also have the resting mean looking face and I'm not much of a smiler as my teeth are full of gaps and it's something I've always been conscious of. I looked like a 35 year old from the age of 17 which didn't help me. I'm only 4 years older than my brother who is a very young looking 38 year old, and recently when I'm out with him, people mistaken me for being his father. It's happened so many times recently. At every social function I'm always that guy standing by himself looking completely out of place.
men's sheds have been around for a long time, they're amazing. life changing for many older guys.
the community benefits a lot because the old blokes can get a lot done, and they help all the locals fix things.
it gives them back their place in the bigger picture.
This resonated with me. Valuable discussion, tip of the iceberg. Thank you.
When I was in my 20s and 30's, I didn't have many friends and they were all drinking friends then I stopped drinking and I didn't have any friends. I was wondering if there was something wrong with me. Now, I just don't care. I like being alone. I don't want friends anymore. I feel much more comfortable alone.
Fewer "friends" means less BS, less stalking, less theft and vandalism, less assault etc.
Hobbies are so important.
We put them on hold to raise kids, and in doing so we role-model this behaviour to our kids.
I believe that as a father it is my responsibility to show my kids that it is essential that I have hobbies and interests away from the home, with other adults.
I play in a band and I ride motorcycles with friends. Facebook groups, when used well, are an excellent resource for connecting men with others interested in the same hobbies.
It’s not selfish. It’s self care.
3 key reasons i hypothesize
1 men are naturally a little bit more of a loner than women to our own detriment
2 men are fear of coming off as weak an needy to other men admitting the longing for plutonic legitimate male comradery is often seen as weakness especially if your no longer a boy / teenager
3 men fear incurring homosexual misunderstanding, or any such awkwardness as overwhelmingly most friendless men are heterosexual or making friends with the wrong crowd (criminal. religious extremist, politically radical, frienemies/ opportunistic weirdos/sick-perverts or jus plain immature men an so on an so fourth.)
yeah a lot of Men don't empathize with each other and have only learned to value humor in friendships rather then integrity and loyalty. This isn't necessarily their fault, its the fault of their family, their fathers and mothers. It goes back man. Not everyone has the capacity to understand the importance, when they live in a world that praises materalistic gain over deep principles and community that tie us together. We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies. If it was a society we would be more closer, not as distant as we are now. Technology has evolved to further distract and divide us, to the benefit of the elite few.
@@createcontent4me-dx8ly “We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies.”
Epic, well said
I think the gay misunderstanding thing is very real. I think most men should stick to joining clubs and such rather than one on one friendship.
2 and 3 are perfect examples of toxic masculinity, which has been completely misused on all sides. Men will sacrifice happiness and other important elements (friends, mental wellbeing etc) because of a perceived weakness and judgement from other men. The world would be much better if more men were confident and self assured in themselves.
Ironically, a lot of men think toxic masculinity is actually just a criticism of masculinity itself, once again just proving a general inability to break free of a repeating cycle.
@@GUITARTIME2024 I think the concept of avoiding one on one male friendship because of “gay misunderstanding” is more of a projection than anything else. Anyone who feels that way or is worried about one on one male interactions probably needs to sort out some of their own sh**. And to be 100% honest I wouldn’t want to be around someone like that anyway because I’m drawn to confident and emotionally honest people.
When he said that hearing of someone who's lonely touches him differently/more than other types of suffering, I think one of the reasons he feels like that could be that the implication is that nobody cares about that person, or that they might be unlikeable. With other types of suffering, e.g. cancer, there are often people around who care for and support them, so it doesn't seem as sad perhaps as somebody who is lonely - who probably doesn't have anyone that cares enough about them (or that they care about) to share some quality time with them AND they obviously would like to and crave that connection (otherwise they wouldn't feel lonely)
I a man and 72. My experience is that men (at least single men in the U.S.) do not value other men. -- The reasons for that and the consequences of that can help explain a lot about why men are alone with no friends and are not married. -- No blame intended. Everyone does the best they know how.
What actually happens is your girlfriend freezes out your real friends & replaces them with the boyfriends of her friends.
It’s like pod people.
So, when the relationship ends you are on your own because you ignored your real friends. And you didn’t even know it happened.
@@InvidiousProductions that is very interesting to think about. Thank you.
You also have to spend a lot of time with other adults you don't necessarily have anything in common with when you have kids. By the time you've done all the kids stuff and friends of your wife you don't really have the bandwidth for anything else.
I’ve had some friends’ wives cut me out of friendships this way. Decades later they want to reconnect, but I realize I don’t like them anymore
It’s insidious
Yes, exactly this. Or the husband/boyfriend of her sister(S)
In my last relationship my gf always made fun of me for not having any friends. I had girl friends but no guy friends. I never talked about the girls. The day i made my first guy friend in years she became very jealous that we hungout out a lot and never wanted him around.
I had a close group of friends during my adolescence. Than we went to different colleges and lost track of each other. I ended up we just a close friend of that group because we lived in the same area and our colleges were next to each other. When we finished college we started working and we started to distance from each other, then came covid and we ended up further apart. Now we talk like one time every year just to wish a happy birthday to each other.
Its difficult to make new friends. I think that technology and social media caused a lot of damage in people interactions. We tend to dedicate less time in person to our relationships, almost everything is done online. Its terrible.
When I was 15 my uncle asked me to count how many friends I had. I laughed when I ran out of fingers and said “I’ve got a ton of friends!”
He smirked back at me and said “when you get older you’ll be lucky if you have 5 of those friends so choose wisely and cherish those friendships, it’s gets harder and harder to make friends as you get older.”
He was 100% dead on.
I had one close friend. Known him since elementary school. He died a month ago , age 50.😢
My husband has no friends , what’s so sad is he is a nice guy . He has colleagues and acquaintances who are also nice guys . This is a tragedy / travesty .
I'm the same, no friends at all. I wake up, go to work, come home. I dread days off and annual leave because work is the only place I connect with people. If your husband is in the UK or even not, then I'd be more than happy to become friends with him
@@garyhalkon8749 im so sorry that’s awful for you . We live in Sydney Australia , so regretfully not in the UK . I will talk to him tonight about it when he gets home from work , but no promises Gary he may not as … I don’t know why , it seems to be a concrete wall he hits , when it comes to interaction . Which makes this all so very difficult . I really hate this for you guys , you are all really great guys . ( not just in intelligence and academics ) but you’re all witty ,funny and smart your thoughts and opinions are so important and relevant . What is happening in the world .
Nice guys finish last
@@garyhalkon8749 hey 👋 im so sorry this is happening to you . I will tell my husband tonight after he gets home from work about you , you’re so cool ! But as you know it’s hard for him even if i reached out for him … there seems to be a real hard barrier that can’t be broken thru . All of you guys are so witty ,clever and so so funny . Sadly we are not in the UK but we live in Australia . Gary do you have a hobby ? I like art so ive joined 2 art groups on line . We zoom as a team as we’re all over the world . I know it’s not the same as in person but it’s a start in the right direction . Don’t be alone buddy you are too precious for that !!!!!
Don't feel bad. That's how I live too. I suspect once we get out of school it's our we spend our lives. It's funny, I was thinking earlier today about how people back in the tribe says probably felt a lot more connected..your surrounded by family, that all love each other, do their part to help out etc. not going to some random job and working for another tribe that doesn't give 2 shits about you besides are you working hard enough and bringing in enough money for his tribe. Humans are definitely not designed to operate as we are today. I don't think in the early days did we have drug issues, alcoholism, bankruptcy, divorces etc.
If you want brothers for life, join the military and go through terrible times. The dudes that go through it with you are your boys for life
Yeah but a lot of them have ptsd and kill themselves and become homeless. We need better places to become brothers
@ I agree brother but also a lot of dudes do that without ever stepping foot into the military
@@kellaslowery8426ok be alone then losa
years ago i made a conscious/part unconscious decision to not get close to anyone anymore. i have friends, but it's casual, intermittent, and kept at arms reach. do i miss having a "brother-like" connection to a friend? sure, but my experience is that you cannot fully trust anyone and the risk is not worth it.
Pain makes you stronger. Hiding from it isn't healthy.
@@carlyellison8498 on one hand i agree. on the other, ive experienced such acute pain and stress from relationships (both plutonic and romantic) that, in spite of my best efforts to care for my health, i figure my odds of having a stroke, coronary, or cancer have increased greatly. as humans, we are flawed and giving that beautiful unconditional trust that is the benchmark of a "deeper friendship" is simply to much health risk IMO. i am a 51yo, married father of two...i have much love in my life, but battle scarred wisdom will get me a better chance at some form of inner peace before its done.
Yes it's true you can't trust anyone. And in the end they all.let you down. But then that negative cancels itself out. You go in "knowing how it works" and accept it for what it is...
@@successsystem2468 i can grasp that fine, youre right -but it's still not worth it to me, personally. i think on some level, many of us are perpetually heartbroken because we wanted (and expected) more from humanity -heart and honor among other traits. of course, that's not what we are. but alas, not to worry -it'll all be over soon enough. limping to the finish line....
@@successsystem2468 -totally wise and i cannot disagree in the least. but my heart isnt rational as such..."damage"
Maintain the ones you have. Be available. Be real. Be kind. The closer all human relationships become the stronger and more sustainable humanity becomes
Your all needed, all loved, stay bless, love forever
"We're all just walking each other home" - Ram Dass
❤️
5:20 - " when a man says 'should i use the 5 iron ?' (while playing golf)....... what he is really saying is 'i love you' ".
wow, very profound and true. in a very Aristotelian (Paltonic) way.
After the age of 45 - either All my friends have died- or have been completely consumed in family dynamics. The friends i do have are work related and although fine, the work experiences is so full of stress and endless work politics that any meaningful relationship outside of the work environment is not sustainable. Most men i know either become INVISIBLE OR FIND AN OUTLET IN NATURE- usually alone or possibly hiking or hunting groups, sporting activities,,even thst being said- it ends up being a dry or competitive head game. I have now evolved past having male friends, fins solace in educating myself in thousands of divergent interests and travel. Sadly- many men have zero levels of freedom. So they become cemented into a garbage apathy and loneliness derangement. Thats the facts of the first 25 years ofnthe 21st century. 💀
Very poetic
What do you mean many men have zero levels of freedom???
This sucks. I’m 56 and have experienced the same thing. Most of my former male friends are just empty dried husks of who they used to be. IDK if they are beaten down by spousal pressure or what.
If you can’t find ANY time to carve out a few hours over the next six months on your schedule, to maintain a friendship, I guess we’re really not friends anymore. I have found out how to be 100% self reliant and do everything alone. Not by choice, but by necessity.
@@sc7453 Try to be more persistent w people
I suggest you start taking Testosterone and taking the gym incredibly serious as well. Many men are still very active, dating hotties, making money and enjoying freedom well into their golden years but you need the energy to do so. Find a very liberal TRT clinic and take a healthy dose of Testosterone, small amount of HGH and daily Cialis. You will be a brand new man.
I haven’t made any new friends in the last 15 years. I’m down to one left after all my other friends, including siblings, have passed away from disease, accidental death, and suicide. the one I have left lives 800 miles away. I’m only 36 and I’ve resigned myself to believing that this is what happens as you get older.
There cant be friendship in a world where everyone is aiming to reach perfection in life through career, money etc. We have been put in competition against each other...
Something I've noticed is how many women are increasingly controlling in marriage - like how many guys now feel that they have to ask permission to go do something outside the house besides work - and this is so common, it's normalized and people don't even question it. And it's often subtle, in that women say their husband can do whatever they want, but then they create a ton of problems and arguments if the guy tries to have any sort of life outside the family. Guys end up (often without realizing it's happening over time) going out less and less making it difficult to maintain friendships. Guys that are single tend to spend much more time with friends or doing their own stuff like hobbies or sports.
Yes and in my own experience isolate their partners due to their own psychological insecurities. The cure to that is to do exactly what you want and let the silent or what tactic comes your way slide off your back. Its funny how if you just maintain your own course the eventually respect you for it. If not then just get out. Life’s to short for coercive bullshit.
Many guys turn their sovereignty over to their spouse. “I gotta ask the old lady”.
Most of it is that a lot of men can’t handle freedom. It is too heady an elixir.
DAVRO
@@sheilaoreilly6826 Exactly right Sheila. Pls excuse my previous written grammar - was still half asleep.
Some wives, not all wives, actively eliminate their husbands friends.
So much of this is shoved into young boys brains at a young age. They grow up believing they are a burden on society. This has to change.
After decades of having what I thought were friends, I came to the understanding that I haven't had a real friend since I was a child. For a man, no other man will come to your rescue, if there is any chance it will negatively affect them. Some guys will say that their friend would back them up in a fight but the reality is that the person they think is their friend is doing it out of self interest because they enjoy fighting
Isn't that what a friend is? Another person whose interests happen to align with our own? Actually asking. I do agree though, if I understand what you're saying, that every interaction is a transaction. What I'm trying to say is that, at heart, we are all selfish.
@@hapster22 I have associates who I share the same common interest with. I find that only sharing a common interest and nothing more, benefits me the most. So yes, I am more selfish now than I have ever been. I am alone more but not more lonely
I think western culture is weird and unnatural generally
Being alone is a gift only the few can appreciate, some people can really ruin your day