Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism. Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage.For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future. Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote. "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
@@christianlao-xf6sj Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism. Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future. Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote. "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
@@DaOne_Nate doing some noble deeds doesn’t make you a hero. Intent is everything and while Goku was more selfless in his younger years, he was a lot more selfish in his adult years so any hero he could’ve possibly became died after his fight with Raditz.
@bendu8282 That doesn't matter. Goku still did heroic acts as an adult and true he did change alot when he became an adult but he still many good deeds which is something a hero would do and if that alone doesn't make a him a hero then what is he???
@@DaOne_Nate he’s a noble warrior, that honestly is a better description of his character. He may have some good qualities but he’s a warrior first and foremost. Honestly Future Trunks , & Master Roshi are more like traditional heroes than Goku.
@@ryszakowy if I have to hear one more time about how Heroes and Xenoverse makes GT canon as a "separate timeline" I am going to Zamasu this entire species.
@ProjektTaku that's not even what makes GT canon. I don't know why people keep saying that. Toriyama called it a grand side story and with the movies he said they were alternate timelines.
9:36 Ever since people learnt that Goku was portrayed more heroic in the anime than he actually is, it's like everybody is overcorrecting, including Toei, Toriyama (RIP), Toyotarou etc., trying to make him appear to be more selfish.
Ripped the words out of my mouth. I definitely wouldn't call Goku a fully heroic character (although he still is pretty heroic given all the good things he intentionally does throughout the series), but you'd think he was Rick Sanchez based on how most people like to describe him. He's far from a flawless character, but it's not like he's a monster.
I remember always hearing that Goku was selfish, didn’t care about Gohan, and was an anti hero before I watched the series. When I got around to watching Dbz Kai, I was surprised to find out that Goku wasn’t anything the internet described him as. Goku in Kai was heroic, he cared about his family, he was flawed but he was still a good person. I didn’t watch the original English dub that supposedly changed Goku’s character, I watched Kai, the version that is closest to the manga, yet it still proved to me that Goku was in fact a hero.
og english dub makes him even more heroic, as at the time funimation wanted him to be compared to superman in the west (a good example of this being goku's speech to freiza in that dub)
@@myuutosanThat's literally not canon and an outright corruption of Toriyama's works. And I highly doubt you've watched it all subbed to be able to truly make that statement.
@@baked7423 Nah. Z Dubbed Goku fans are a blight. They don't even have the curtesy to watched the dubbed OG DB, and act as if they know the character better than others.
Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism. Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future. Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote. "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
Goku having a Pure Heart in Dragon Ball meant his mind was innocent due to that head injury, Toriyama wasn’t referring to any noble morals Goku had when he established the character with a pure heart.
@@bendu8282 Watch the video. Just because he doesn't act like a traditional superhero, doesn't mean that many of his actions aren't heroic. Even Super Goku is more than just the battle hungry nut job you're trying to make him out to be.
@@bendu8282 Not to discredit Toriyama, but if that's the case, then he shouldn't have written him to be that way. He was always heroic, even from the very beginning, even if not in the traditional sense. Doing good for the sake of doing good is what makes you a hero, and he does that frequently
@@valpeysgaming13110No, he's talking nonsense. He talks nonsense, he's a fanatic obsessed with Toei's Goku, yet the author clearly said that Goku was not a hero. There's a reason for that, and the manga makes it very clear, Goku made a lot of selfish decisions and the author illustrated it very well, Goku was disappointed not to have fought against the cyborgs, he was more shocked by that than learning that the world of the future was annihilated, have you also forgotten that this same Goku refused Bulma's proposal to use the dragon balls to find Dr. Gero? Why in your opinion? Because he's not a hero he was more interested in fighting the cyborgs than the planet being trashed. Leaving Vegeta alive was a purely selfish decision, himself and Krillin recognized it, it was a whim of Goku, and the manga is very clear about it, but you want to contradict it? Goku is just like a human with empathy but he has a lot of flaws, like all of Tori's characters, he purposely made his characters have so many flaws, he helps others out of empathy, but is not a hero, his selfish desires take precedence over his benevolent actions, throughout the manga it's like this, Not killing buu and leaving the land between children of 7 and 8 years old, was a stupidity, Goku is the reason for Buu waking up with Vegeta, but he wanted to let Goten and Trunks take care of it? that's stupid, Goku thought everyone wants a good fight like him? all the bad decisions repeated are there to show that Goku is not a hero, just a warrior with empathy and full of faults and vices.
@@benimpanu4405 Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism. Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future. Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote. "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
The thing with Goku is that most of his righteous acts are not from a rational conclusion but from an empathetic side. He has a natural sense of good and bad and he acts on it instinctually. Him wanting to end cell is from muten Roshi's teachings.
I think you meant "isn't from Muten Roshi's teachings" and I agree, or rather I think Roshi's teachings were the cherry on top of a pure heart and instinctive empathy
@@beccasalt8960 Goku's nature embodies Muten roshi's teachings because of grandpa Gohan's effect on Goku's heart. Muten roshi only reinforced those teachings, but Goku doesn't consciously practice it, he naturally does. When someone is threatening the earth or doing injustice you should deal with them with one blow, that's why Goku wanted Gohan to end Cell. Goku will always encourage everyone to practice martial arts, causing them some type of purification, just like grandpa Gohan did to Goku. You become a lost cause when you refuse to practice martial arts, thus, being dealt with by Goku. Goku doesn't create any type of moral idea. Everything is centered around martial arts and its ethics of what you should do in those situations to avoid karma in a way. That's why the interaction between Goku and Moro is so important, and why Goku constantly references his earthling nature when ultra instinct.
@@painebatke9144 that's true, grandpa Gohan was a big influence on Goku's good nature, and Gohan was indeed influenced by Roshi. I hadn't considered that as deeply before. Thank you for reminding me 😊
He wanted a sparring partner, not a psychotic villain wanted to destroy or dominate the universe. The thing is the writer mostly put Goku in this kind of situation like Batman deciding to kill or not
People forget that being a hero doesn't always mean you gotta be the leader of virtue. You can still do some things or have traits that are very unheroic. Marvel has shown this all the time
• Avenges Kuririn • Saves the earth from Piccolo Daimao • Sacrifices to save his son and the planet against Raditz • Avenges the Saiyans (yes, he DID say that to himself, once Vegeta was k*lled) • Sacrifices again to protect the earth from blowing up • *Chooses* to stay dead, as he feels like his existence is a threat to his loved ones Toriyama: Nah, he's not a hero though
I like to think that the reason Goku’s emotional priorities have switch so more to him being excited for fights over everything else in DBS is because he’s gotta much more powerful now and coming across beings that can still rival him in strength is even more exciting than before. Goku knows he’s getting closer and closer to the power ceiling so him getting a chance to still challenge himself is an opportunity he doesn’t want to miss
I always thought it's because he's less stressed. He has Beerus and Whis helping him solve problems now. For the first time in his life, he's not the only competent team member
@@hoohoo431so we can say he felt what it’s like to be a non saiyan z-fighter, they are more chill and less stressed because they have insurance with goku and vegeta
Also many of his opponents in Super aren't very evil so they won't generate the same kind of anger in Goku you'd get from Z. Goku Black and Zamasu being the exception.
I think people sometimes forget that heroes are just as flawed as anyone else is. What makes a hero heroic is that they know they have flaws, and yet they strive to overcome them when it comes to doing the right thing. If heroes were perfect they would be gods, and would be unable to relate to mere mortals in any meaningful way.
Hmm, that's a very insightful comment. Perhaps that links to the seeming change in Goku's personality in Dragon Ball Super? They knew they were headed the 'God' direction and made Goku's character reflect some of that distance?
@@beccasalt8960it’s more like the stakes are completely different there’s no world ending threat in super Beerus is a god they can’t just beat, frieza comes back and is killed again, the tournament is just a fun tournament, goku black arc is about another time line entirely and everything they did still wasn’t enough so they needed help which Goku called, tournament of power wasn’t selfish because Zeno was planning on eradicating the universes with no chance but Goku gave them a chance, these are very different and complicated situations vs dbz where it’s just z fighters vs big bad to save the world or to get the dragon balls
Carthu your analogy was really good. Words can't express how well you explained the word *"Heroism"* "The eastern mentality of doing your job, and with it helping people out in your way" was the intention of this show. You explained it nicely. You seriously know your stuff. You're the only dbz youtuber, who actually knows the story in depth, and actually does his homework before making a video
No, he's talking nonsense. He talks nonsense, he's a fanatic obsessed with Toei's Goku, yet the author clearly said that Goku was not a hero. There's a reason for that, and the manga makes it very clear, Goku made a lot of selfish decisions and the author illustrated it very well, Goku was disappointed not to have fought against the cyborgs, he was more shocked by that than learning that the world of the future was annihilated, have you also forgotten that this same Goku refused Bulma's proposal to use the dragon balls to find Dr. Gero? Why in your opinion? Because he's not a hero he was more interested in fighting the cyborgs than the planet being trashed. Leaving Vegeta alive was a purely selfish decision, himself and Krillin recognized it, it was a whim of Goku, and the manga is very clear about it, but you want to contradict it? Goku is just like a human with empathy but he has a lot of flaws, like all of Tori's characters, he purposely made his characters have so many flaws, he helps others out of empathy, but is not a hero, his selfish desires take precedence over his benevolent actions, throughout the manga it's like this, Not killing buu and leaving the land between children of 7 and 8 years old, was a stupidity, Goku is the reason for Buu waking up with Vegeta, but he wanted to let Goten and Trunks take care of it? that's stupid, Goku thought everyone wants a good fight like him? all the bad decisions repeated are there to show that Goku is not a hero, just a warrior with empathy and full of faults and vices.
@@souptikchakraborty.yt.2024 that defines you well, the manga is there but you refuse to look the truth in the face. Didn't Goku refuse Bulma's proposal to find Dr. Gero with the dragon balls? answer, but since you are a fanatic you will say the opposite, the manga is very clear. Goku makes selfish decisions even at the expense of the earth.
@@benimpanu4405Being selfish sometimes doesn't mean he's NOT a hero. A hero is someone who goes out of their way to help others, while expecting nothing in return. Not being 110% selfless at all times doesn't mean he's unworthy of the title. No one's perfect, after all.
I think another key factor about the change between Z goku and Super goku is that he is obviously ALOT stronger now so his urge to fight even more dangerous fighters is way more active
I think the same way. Goku in DBS is miles stronger than DBZ Goku. So increased strength also increased his urge to fight. Also, DBZ has broadened the horizons by allowing bad guys to come from space like Frieza or Buu so you wouldn't know what would come next. DBS on the contrary set the ceiling. We know that Zeno is the strongest but we don't know what enemy would come between current Goku and Zeno.
@@the_uneven_arctics The End of Z may still be canon but we can't be sure what creators do in the future. Maybe they would remake the ending to suit Super better.
@@the_uneven_arctics I know but I think it limits Super growth. For example, Pan in Super looks older than she was in The End of Z. In my honest opinion, they should just remake the end when they feel confident. Also what difference it makes if End of Z Goku is stronger than current Goku?
I mean yeah he has saved billions of people on countless occasions. Even if he's not some paragon of virtue like superman(sometimes is) he's still a good person that's saved countless people
Nah, goku totally only saved those billions of lives or brought all the innocent people that were harmed, all back with the dragon balls out of selfishness.
And there was a song in Shrek 2 called "I need a hero" sung by the main villain. This isn't arguing against anything I just wanted to remind people how good the fairy godmothers version of the song ism
This is a sentiment I've been trying to convey for ages! Thanks for making it in the form of a well-structured and researched video. Goku isn't a superhero, but he is absolutely a hero.
@@NoName......they even said themselves, they never started the bad dad, they sure made jokes about it where people just take it too far. Goku isn’t a bad dad, he just isn’t very understanding of gohan until obviously later
Goku is a Hero, he is as he says himself not a Hero OF JUSTICE, ehich are usually Super Heroes, and Goku is not one of those, he helps People when he can, usually with Fighting
Thank you for using the text of the original manga to defend Goku. He's always been a hero. He's not Superman and he LOVES fighting, but when it comes down to it, Goku chooses to save others.
I remember in the super manga when zamasu and black were about to fuse, he immediately shouted for vegeta to "finish them". And then when vegeta looked at him confused, goku shot a blast at them. I thought that was a cool moment.
Yeah, Goku had no problem eliminating dangerous threats like the times Goku killed King Piccolo out of revenge without a second thought, or the determined eyes when he realized Moro would never change and about to destroy the goat in honor of Merus's request. How come people never talk about this?
There’s also the fact that Goku actually gave the other lower level Universes plus his own a shot at survival in the T.O.P. Even though people(both in the story and in the real world) foolishly insist that he was the one to put everyone in danger. Even to this day, people still blame Goku, like they haven’t watched the anime or read the manga. Edit: Please don’t type in THAT Dragon Ball meme(for it shall not be named) in reaction to this, it’s gross exaggeration and misrepresentation of Dragon Ball fans as whole as it doesn’t represent every single fan of the franchise.
Because the writers knew they wrote themselves into a corner and decided to throw in at the last minute that Goku “gave the other universes a fighting chance”, which is cap because if any other universe won, and used the Super Dragon Balls for a selfish wish, the Zenos would’ve erased all the universes anyway. On top of all that, Goku didn’t know any of this, he simply wanted to fight strong people from the other universes.
@@Hyperslayer_X It’s not cap, Goku giving others a shot at survival. Even though it wasn’t intentional on his part, it is what it is. It was a test to see if at least one of the Universe would look after their fellow mortals, which happened in the end. I do however think the manga handled this better by actively showing us both Zenos contemplating on whether or not they should erase the lower universes before Goku showed up.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 Read my comment again because I explained how Goku was unaware that him fulfilling his selfish desire of wanting to fight strong opponents from the other universes would also mean give them a fighting chance. Goku didn’t know the Zenos were going to erase the lower universes, and if any of the other universes won and used the Super Dragon Balla for a selfish wish, the Zenos would’ve erased them anyway, and pretty much no one else other than Goku (and likely Gohan) would’ve made a selfless wish. It’s a classic example of plot convenience. 17 deciding to wish all the universes back to honor Goku’s hard work in the tournament is pure plot convenience because he had no reason not to just wish for what he wanted, but you see, if he did, U7 would’ve gotten erased. The ToP was poorly written no matter which way you slice it, although sure, the manga was better in some aspects than the anime.
@@Hyperslayer_X It wasn’t plot convenience on 17’s part. 17 understood that making an unselfish wish was the right thing to do, or the “human” thing to do as he would describe it, like “sacrificing” himself to give Goku and Vegeta some time to recover. Do I think it could have been better? Yes, anything can be better, but I think it handled relatively well and showed the development of 17’s character; from being nihilistic about the T.O.P.’s losing conditions via getting erased to growing to understand significance of making an unselfish wish.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 I do agree that from 17’s perspective it did help with his character development, but from Goku’s? Nah, he basically got lucky. Goku definitely fought extremely hard in the TOP, but Frieza and 17 came in clutch to save the day at the end. Goku failed to knock out Jiren when he was at his strongest (MUI) and it nearly cost U7 the tournament since after Jiren was reinvigorated by Top’s motivational speech, he was more than capable of using the last of strength to knock out Frieza and 17. Goku got really lucky that the cards were in his favor. Typical Shounen protagonist moment.
Bro, Goku literally tells Frieza to watch out for his own blast and even gives him a second chance which was completely undeserved. He watches out for everyone, even the selfish scourge of the entire universe
Goku: "I'm not some hero of justice." Akira Toriyama: "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him." Carthu: and I took that personally
You're missing the point, he said he didnt like goku being portrayed as a "righteous hero", like how the american dub usually did it. I'd say Goku is a hero, but not the traditional comic book one from like the 1900's where they practically faced no real hardships because some deus ex machina thing would save their butts.
@@146zigzag3 Exactly If he didn't want Goku to be a hero then why does every Character in Dragon Ball think GOku is a hero. Also If he wasn't a hero he wouldn't be able to keep his body after he dies. King Yama, the god of Death, said that because Goku is a martial arts hero who saved the Earth, he has to keep his body. Also, Because Goku is a Hero, King Yama gave him his wish and reincarnated Buu into UUB! King Yama is the proof that Akira Toriyama thought Goku was a hero! Goku was allowed to keep his body 2 Times and was granted a wish by the god of death.
It's been a while since i watched dbs, but wasn't goku the reason why the multiverse was put at risk of dying. dude probably cause an unfathomable amount of deaths just by that alone (Now idk about the dbs cosmology and how it works but would souls die aswell or do they go to another place outside the universe or something)
@@2magnet no, zeno was gonna destroy it anyway, goku gave everyone a chance, if you can blame goku for something is that he could have waited a little longer before asking zeno about the tournament so everyone could prepare better
@@2magnet If it wasn’t for Goku being himself, the universes would’ve been done, Zeno considered destroying the universes in the first place because he was literally getting bored of everything.
@@samueloak1600more like heavily deserves. Ya’ll still laugh at “bad dad Goku” despite everything he’s done before and after Raditz. But I guess a good dad would never sacrifice himself to save his kid. Least we know what kind of coward parent you’ll be.
@@DarkEclipse23 Toriyama was joking about Gokū being a bad dad before TFS even existed. He also said Gokū wasn't a hero before that! So how is it their fault when the author himself pushes these misconceptions?
Goku has every qualification of being a hero, fights for justice, protects innocent, and keeps is friends and loved ones safe. He even sacrificed himself multiple times to save earth, and people complain that Goku wasn't there for his son, HE WAS DEAD 💀
Goku is not a hero in his own perspective clearly he is a hero from others perspective but even then most of the problems he resolves are things his actions or omission of actions provoked, the dead of uppa's dad and his fight with tao pai pai was because he decided to challenge the RR army, piccolo's unsealing was thanks to fucking with pilaf and not taking them seriously (granted it wasn't entirely his fault), piccolo jr. Was also his fault and he knew he was on earth since the beginning tho piccolo has done more good deeds than bad ones, the saiyans going to earth was his fault which in result also made them have to go to namek and fight frieza, the androids were his fault, buu wasn't entirely his fault but he had a hand on it, bills was/wasn't his fault i mean the prediction of the saiyan god was him but it's not like he was aware of that himself, frieza coming back was his fault, black was his fault, both tournaments weren't his fault so at least he has that W, finally cell max was his fault. Admittedly he didn't want any of that to happen but his actions were the fire that initiated all of those problems.
@@isaacbell5156 The androids's kind of his fault for destroying the Red Ribbon army and Dr.Gero was a part of it and wanted revenge on Goku for stopping their world domination
@@45_nguyenhaiangviet95 Without Goku Red ribben army would of rule the world with the dragon balls. Red ribben army was terrorizing people but it's Goku fault for protecting people and the world from them?
@@45_nguyenhaiangviet95 that's like saying it was Europe's fault that Hitler did what he did, because he did that in response to the actions taken against Germany after WW1 and the poverty they faced.
A hero in simple terms is someone who does right and challenges the wrongs. Goku does do bad things that get him and everyone in danger. Be it letting vegeta and freiza go but his heart is pure in seeing the best in people and wanting to bring that out of then like wishing for kid buu to come back a good person and fat buu becoming a good guy.
But Goku has some right and challenged wrong all the time, as this video demonstrates. Just because he doesn't always do the right thing doesn't make him less of a hero.
@@NickMorrison78 Except that influence only happened because goku told Buu he didn't need to listen to babidi, which funny enough is more proof towards why goku is a hero.
Are you blaming Goku for the actions of other people who were given instructions to leave and never return and were given the opportunity to turn over a new leaf? We can't blame him for that. He gave them a chance and they blew it, so he took responsibility for eliminating the problem. It was still the *villains* who did the bad things. Don't get confused my man...
I feel like Super's characterization is Goku having just come out of retirement from thinking there's nothing to aspire to anymore, and the introduction of gods and the multiverse suddenly breaks the ceiling he thought he reached. Its like a very humanizing midlife crisis thing and also a testament to how powerful he's gotten, even Weiss mentioned how a flaw in his character is his over confidence of his strength.
This is something I've always thought too, since DBS interestingly puts Goku back in the position of a student. Over time I just thought he was less stressed because he's got Beerus and Whis to deal with shit so he's not the only member on the team getting shit done. Although, your idea makes sense to me, especially since in DBS Broly he says that until Broly showed up, he thought he hit his peak
I never understood why Toriyama complained about Goku being portrayed as a hero in the Anime when that's how Toriyama himself wrote Goku in the Original Manga, i never got that
Exactly. That always confused me. Like, you don't like that the anime portrays Goku as a hero, but the anime's a 1-to-1 representation of the manga. So you're unsatisfied with how YOU wrote him? Idk, it always seem kinda off. Add tp that Toriyama not remembering half the show. This just sounds like 1 of those toriyama comments where he's completely out of touch with his own series
It’s pretty clear that he means Goku isn’t the *conventional* hero though. Like his intentions was to make Goku _not_ just the average Superman archetype, hence his dissatisfaction with how the anime made him more heroic looking (like the Funimation dub). But obviously yes, he’s literally written the guy to be a hero in his own unique, rambunctious way, he knew what he was saying lol. It’s just that he never wanted Goku to be seen as a hero, because that’s not what his character is about; the whole point is that he’s a hero as a _byproduct_ of his own silly, fun, exciting adventures, and kind-hearted nature
What he meant is Goku's intention was not heroic, just priority seeking strong opponents to spar with but most of them were bad and worse, but his actions was defined as heroism as he's defending the Earth, protecting people from Red Ribbon army, eliminating galatical threats
I think the best way to put it is Goku is a hero but not always necessary heroic because Goku does make some questionable decisions that a hero probably wouldn’t make but ultimately Goku has done way more good for the world than vice versa so Goku still a hero in my book
When u say Questionable decision that a hero probably wouldn't make, I am assuming u just like everyone else are talking about letting Villains live. I am sorry, but that is exactly what a superhero would do. Batman, Superman, and Spiderman 3 of the most famous Superheroes around the world refuses to kill their villains who by all means deserve to die!
@@sonnywoods6846 but would a hero purposefully put their own selfish desires over the potentially safety of others? Like sparring a dangerous villain and just letting them get away(not even locking them up) just so you can have a rivial to fight? Or letting villains power up to max so you get more of a thrill ? Or potentially putting the multiverse in danger just because you want to enjoy a fighting tournament? And I know Zeno was gonna destroy the the universes anyways but Goku wouldn’t have known that Goku not a bad person but he has made some pretty selfish decisions that I don’t think a hero would exactly make
@@TheLilsamrules Batman does that every single time he refuses to kill the Joker. Not wanting to break his moral code over preventing more deaths is a selfish desire. And don't bother mentioning 'locking them up' again. Batman knows they will escape. EVERYONE knows it, even the villains knows it. It has become a joke that they can just walk out the frontdoor of the prison.
@@TheLilsamrulesgoku later regretted letting vegeta go in the manga when talking to king Kai about the situation on namek in the manga. What I like about this goku versus the funi dub goku is that the manga and Kai Goku is really just a regular guy with flaws who does heroic deeds when it’s within his presence. He’s flawed like us but will do the right thing when necessary instead of being a perfect hero like he was portrayed as in the funi dub which is kinda boring. He learns from Frieza that not everyone can change their ways and he stops sparing people after this so he’s learned from his past mistakes
Thank you Carthu for defending Goku, the amount of times I see people say he does good things only because he is getting a good fight out of it is unreal and downright disrespectful towards the character. More people need to watch this fr.
Abridged says it's a parody and to support the official release at the start of every episode. But, we all know what I'm about to say next... *Dragon Ball fans can't read.* All they know is eat hot chip and lie.
@@muffinfighter3680in fairness. Toriyama mentioned he made it a goal to forget previous arcs as he had to always be corrected on super saiyan being 50x and not 10x.
Goku is A hero,but in his own way.He just does what He feels is right or good.Goku is someone who always relies on his instincts,Both in a battle sense and a moral sense.
I never understood Toryama's reluctance to call Goku a "hero." He even said he didn't like how the anime depicted Goku he wanted him to come off as "more selfish" (which makes no sense considering that for Z the characteration between manga and anime wasnt that different)
I think it's more so how Toriyama probably viewed a hero role himself, especially with Goku's driving force to be largely selfish (he wants to keep fighting strong people for the sake of his own growth)
@@Cameron_PrattYea because that’s how manga writing for a huge conglomerate works lol Toriyama stated himself that he was pressured and forced by his editors to make Goku more heroic for commercial reasons.
I always personally took it as how in One piece Luffy says he isn't a hero they both are heros to others but they're not trying to be and Gokus selfishness does have him do things like spare Vegeta or give Cell a senzu bean but he does try to do the right things when he has the opportunity he's just not looking for that opportunity like say spiderman would
Maybe a bit cynical to say. But Goku randomly becoming selfish is a good way to stop him from being pro-active for a day and then be pro-active for the entire arc after. So the villain can become a threat
Goten is the biggest victim of Goku's decision to stay dead. Bro never got to have a dad as his father chose to stay in the afterlife rather than raise him, which I really empathize with as someone who's been abandoned by my father figure
That's because Goku didn't want his son wife and friends to be in danger by him being there the Saiyans came for Goku Frieza came for Goku the red ribbon army came for Goku Goku thought it would be best if he stayed dead to keep them safe
@@miguelanderson4116 Yeah I know but that doesn't chsnge the fsct that he left Goten fatherless, and besides Goku ended up coming back anyway and staying alive and by the time Cell was dead all of Goku's opps other thsn the Pilaf Gsng were already gone, it's an understandable decision, but it was the wrong decision to make
@@DarkEclipse23 How did he not? That makes him even worse, he could've checked in on his family every day with King Kai but he didn't. The idea that he didn't know who Goten was makes Goku look super negligent and like a horrible father
Had he stuck around, Goten would've just been in danger. The earth was peaceful for 7 years, but as soon as he comes back for one day, Majin Buu gets released. I'm definitely not one to excuse someone abandoning their kid(s), but it isn't like he didn't have a justifiable reason. Also, pretty sure he didn't know about Goten. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been surprised to see him at the tournament.
What is acting like a superhero? Most MCU heroes are engaging in personal conflict, doing their job, or acting in self-preservation. Very few of them are just professional vigilantes, fighting crime for the sake of it. Spider-Man sure. Just look at phase one - Iron Man: Entirely selfish motivations. - Thor: Really just wants to get his hammer back and stop his brother from overthrowing his kingdom. - Captain America: Is a soldier and later a government agent. Doing his job.
I feel like that’s why there’s a disconnect. Traditional heroes live and fight TO save people. It’s their primary objective. So yes. Goku doesn’t fight because heroes fight villains. He fights because he won’t shy away if a threat catches his attention. So I agree with toriyama. He isnt a hero of justice who fights in the name of justice. He’s a hero because it’s the morally right thing to be and do.
Goku may not be a traditional "superhero" but that doesn't make him a traditional "hero". He doesn't want to fight villains, he wants to fight strong people, it just so happens that those strong people are usually villains.
Hey man, you’re cool, just wanted to support you and ask you a question! Do you ever think you’re gonna make a video on Goku’s character writing or the series as a whole? A lot of people think of Dragon Ball as a power fantasy slop series with brain dead character writing, so would you be down to do a video to show that “Powering up and screaming” isn’t all there is to the series?
Thank you for the Super! I think I do that by covering elements of the series the way I do. There could be a time I see making a video just about the topic of what Dragon Ball is more thoroughly but I think deep diving elements of it and answering questions people are interested in is the best way to at least introduce people to the intricacies of the series
This is probably not a popular opinion to hold, but he's a hero in the Sonic the Hedgehog sense (game version). Someone that does heroic deeds, but don't regard themselves as heroes.
@@Therealones745 True, he acts way more selflessly, than Goku. I'm more referring to their personal views of themselves, which if asked they'd probably wouldn't call themselves heroes.
@@CarthusDojo Thank God as long as it's on your list. I'm sick of the whole bad dad thing. (I think abridged is funny but people take it WAY to seriously and genuinely believe Goku is a bad dad and other things you pointed out) 🤣
I’ve pondered this question for a great many years, I gotta go with no(you’re not wrong, just expressing my thoughts on a topic that I do find interesting) I think it’s how he handles Freiza which really pushes it over for me
I want a story with elderly goku, being a hermit or something far away, years after end of Z, being a wacky old man telling stories of his past to a new generation.
I like to think Super Goku allows himself to be more relaxed and not worried about the future because he got what he wanted. He's not the only guardian of the earth anymore. Vegeta is actually his equal and pretty invested in the world, and the number of people at his level willing and able to help only grows, with folks like Broly, Gohan, and Piccolo reaching the heights necessary. So he can goof off and enjoy fighting, only getting serious when he really has to.
Goku would 100% do everything in his power to stop the events of 9/11. He might not be “American” in the traditional sense, but he embodies the spirit of protecting innocent lives, standing up to evil, and doing what’s right, no matter the odds. His instinct to save people transcends borders or nationalities-he’d act purely out of his desire to prevent suffering and protect the world, just as our troops have countless times before. To me, Goku is an American hero🇺🇸❤️
I think the reason Goku in Super is so much more focused on his own fun is because most of the time the situation isn't THAT dire. His fight with Beerus was to impress him, not a fight to the death. Golden Frieza wasn't much of a threat, hence why Goku and Vegeta could afford to take turns. And both multiversal tournaments, despite the stakes, weren't against evil people. That's probably why Goku seems so different in the Goku Black arc. The situation is dire, the antagonist is truly evil and his loved ones were harmed. The context is closer to Z, so it makes sense Goku would act like he did in Z.
It's unfortunate that there is such a narrative that you even have to make this video, but it's excellent, as always. mjxtv always coming through with the cleanest editing! it;s so consistent
You seriously know your stuff. You're the only dbz youtuber (aside from Totally not Mark), who actually knows the story in depth, and actually does his homework before making a video. This, and your morality of Goku video, proves that you understand the character
@@muffinfighter3680 actually i watched casual anime guy explains gohan character arc video He talked about how gohan behaved uncharacteristic in cell arc when he behaved like a pacifist... But he always was a pacifist... So CAGE, doesn't really understand the character depths.. I watched TotallynotMark's z review, and in that he explained gohan's character in depth and he showed that he was always a pacifist and never actually fought until no choice is left... So his actions during cell games wasn't uncharacteristic So yeah... CAGE, doesn't understand the characters as much as TotallynotMark or Carthu does. I mean CAGE knows, his stuff... Just that Carthu and TNM, knows better
he wasnt wrong. By the saiyan saga Gohan learned there was no wrong in fighting to protect the ones you love. In namek saga he took advantage and fought hard and earnestly when needed against frieza and his forces. In the android arc, Gohan had the same will and determination. The point of the character was yes he had a note about fighting but he also learned the importance of fighting when he needs to. @@souptikchakraborty.yt.2024
Toriyama was inconsistent he says goku isn’t a hero yet goku does heroic acts anyway, he literally vowed to defeat Frieza in the name of everyone he made suffer so that debunks the notion he doesn’t care about innocents. Super Goku is obviously written to act more like luffy instead of the goku in Z
8:36 yeah but like, remember that Toriyama came up with SS3 after Vegeta self Destructed against Buu, so out Universe Goku wasn't Holding back SS3, in Universe, I guess
Reminds me to MistareFusion's video about whether or not Goku fits he heroic feel. Still, Goku not requesting to be revived after being killed by Cell always was the weirdest moment I ever watched. Like, he knows he of Goten right?
i like to view him as a hero with a sprinkle of anti-villain. always does good things, but sometimes does it out of his selfishness to fight instead of doing it for good
I completely forgot about that, if Zamasu wasnt immortal, Goku would have straight up just blown a guys head off.
pause
@@thepurpleshade486
Play
Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism.
Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage.For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future.
Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote.
"Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
He spared vegeta because of android 8 and his saiyan genes, a desire to fight@@bendu8282
@@bendu8282 I think when you saved earth and even the universe multiple times then you could say that you´re pretty heroöic
I was confused when some dragon ball fans were saying that Goku isn't a hero, to me Goku has always been a hero
Dude, he literally went through a whole journey just to save oopas dad like bro how is he not a hero? 😭
@@christianlao-xf6sj Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism.
Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future.
Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote.
"Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
@@DaOne_Nate doing some noble deeds doesn’t make you a hero. Intent is everything and while Goku was more selfless in his younger years, he was a lot more selfish in his adult years so any hero he could’ve possibly became died after his fight with Raditz.
@bendu8282 That doesn't matter. Goku still did heroic acts as an adult and true he did change alot when he became an adult but he still many good deeds which is something a hero would do and if that alone doesn't make a him a hero then what is he???
@@DaOne_Nate he’s a noble warrior, that honestly is a better description of his character. He may have some good qualities but he’s a warrior first and foremost.
Honestly Future Trunks , & Master Roshi are more like traditional heroes than Goku.
Carthu: “I sometimes make shorts to correct misconceptions.”
Fans: “Goku’s not a hero.”
Carthu: “Okay…this requires a whole video.”
by the way are you excited for sparking zero
I think everyone is excited for it
@@monkeymadness9552I'm probably not gonna be able to get it for atleast 3 years
"Which shuts people up who treat Dragon Ball Z Abridged like it's cannon" Damn dude
They deserve it. Those people are insufferable.
with entire xenoverse and dragon ball heroes even DBZA is canon somewhere
@@ryszakowy if I have to hear one more time about how Heroes and Xenoverse makes GT canon as a "separate timeline" I am going to Zamasu this entire species.
@@ProjektTakuGet a spare senzu because I feel like joining the cause
@ProjektTaku that's not even what makes GT canon. I don't know why people keep saying that. Toriyama called it a grand side story and with the movies he said they were alternate timelines.
Fun fact: The Red Ribbon army is an antagonist in every dragon ball anime
you are right. the RR arc general blue , andrioid saga , cell saga and dbssh
@@Neuvillete4.6 hopefully Daima keeps the legacy alive 😁
@@Neuvillete4.6 even super 17 arc is caused by gero
@@vegetacultminorityhunter yeah true, but dr. Gero teamed up with space gero to make him lol
@@Neuvillete4.6 i mean RR as a whole arc takes a chunk of db
9:36 Ever since people learnt that Goku was portrayed more heroic in the anime than he actually is, it's like everybody is overcorrecting, including Toei, Toriyama (RIP), Toyotarou etc., trying to make him appear to be more selfish.
Agreed
common issue in the dragon ball fandom tbh
Ripped the words out of my mouth. I definitely wouldn't call Goku a fully heroic character (although he still is pretty heroic given all the good things he intentionally does throughout the series), but you'd think he was Rick Sanchez based on how most people like to describe him. He's far from a flawless character, but it's not like he's a monster.
@@noahvance6160 kid goku killed too many people to be a good person.
@@jacobjackson6746 but he killed bad guys, who threatened to conquer the Earth, not just innocent people
I remember always hearing that Goku was selfish, didn’t care about Gohan, and was an anti hero before I watched the series. When I got around to watching Dbz Kai, I was surprised to find out that Goku wasn’t anything the internet described him as. Goku in Kai was heroic, he cared about his family, he was flawed but he was still a good person. I didn’t watch the original English dub that supposedly changed Goku’s character, I watched Kai, the version that is closest to the manga, yet it still proved to me that Goku was in fact a hero.
og english dub makes him even more heroic, as at the time funimation wanted him to be compared to superman in the west (a good example of this being goku's speech to freiza in that dub)
@@johnathanobility maybe unpopular opinion but I prefer Goku more when his actions come from a heroic heart
@@myuutosanThat's literally not canon and an outright corruption of Toriyama's works. And I highly doubt you've watched it all subbed to be able to truly make that statement.
@@GrammarNaziAUS all they said is they kinda like the heroic goku no need to bash on them
@@baked7423 Nah. Z Dubbed Goku fans are a blight. They don't even have the curtesy to watched the dubbed OG DB, and act as if they know the character better than others.
Two words: PURE HEART
ikr
Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism.
Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future.
Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote.
"Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
Goku having a Pure Heart in Dragon Ball meant his mind was innocent due to that head injury, Toriyama wasn’t referring to any noble morals Goku had when he established the character with a pure heart.
@@bendu8282 Watch the video. Just because he doesn't act like a traditional superhero, doesn't mean that many of his actions aren't heroic. Even Super Goku is more than just the battle hungry nut job you're trying to make him out to be.
@@bendu8282 Not to discredit Toriyama, but if that's the case, then he shouldn't have written him to be that way. He was always heroic, even from the very beginning, even if not in the traditional sense. Doing good for the sake of doing good is what makes you a hero, and he does that frequently
Carthu got me into Dragon Ball. I used to hate anime but now (thanks to Carthu) Dragon Ball has changed me so much.
Thank you Carthu
Same, but it was a manga for me
Thank you for liking you’re my favorite creator
@@valpeysgaming13110No, he's talking nonsense. He talks nonsense, he's a fanatic obsessed with Toei's Goku, yet the author clearly said that Goku was not a hero.
There's a reason for that, and the manga makes it very clear, Goku made a lot of selfish decisions and the author illustrated it very well, Goku was disappointed not to have fought against the cyborgs, he was more shocked by that than learning that the world of the future was annihilated, have you also forgotten that this same Goku refused Bulma's proposal to use the dragon balls to find Dr. Gero? Why in your opinion? Because he's not a hero he was more interested in fighting the cyborgs than the planet being trashed.
Leaving Vegeta alive was a purely selfish decision, himself and Krillin recognized it, it was a whim of Goku, and the manga is very clear about it, but you want to contradict it?
Goku is just like a human with empathy but he has a lot of flaws, like all of Tori's characters, he purposely made his characters have so many flaws, he helps others out of empathy, but is not a hero, his selfish desires take precedence over his benevolent actions, throughout the manga it's like this, Not killing buu and leaving the land between children of 7 and 8 years old, was a stupidity, Goku is the reason for Buu waking up with Vegeta, but he wanted to let Goten and Trunks take care of it? that's stupid, Goku thought everyone wants a good fight like him?
all the bad decisions repeated are there to show that Goku is not a hero, just a warrior with empathy and full of faults and vices.
@@benimpanu4405 Goku isn’t a hero. He doesn’t even see himself as a hero, many people equate doing some good things to heroism.
Goku was definitely more noble and possibly heroic as a kid but in his adult life his selfish side takes center stage. For starters he had Krillin spare Vegeta a dangerous villain cause he wanted to fight him in the future.
Goku prolonged his fight with Frieza and nearly doomed the planet to test his own strength, he agreed with Vegeta to wait for the android attack instead of taking care of Doctor Gero then and there endangering the lives of civilians when he could’ve prevented it causing The Android/Cell Saga. When Goku knew Gohan only has the power to defeat Cell, he handed him a sensu bean to give Cell a fair fight prolonging the situation. Goku fought Majinn Vegeta knowing it could possible awaken Majinn Buu a great evil and to add insult to injury, He prolonged the battle against Majin Buu by letting him live in his super Sayian 3 form when he could’ve destroyed him at that time. Goku maybe pure of Heart in The Naive Oblivious sense and he may be a nice guy , he’s done noble things but Goku’s thirst for battle trumps any good aspects of his nature. He’s more of a noble warrior than a traditional hero, I know fans have their own interpretations especially due to the old Funimation dub, but that’s the character Akira Toriyama wrote.
"Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."-Akira Toriyama
@@benimpanu4405 nah, the one who talks nonsense is you. you clearly didnt understand the Video.
The thing with Goku is that most of his righteous acts are not from a rational conclusion but from an empathetic side. He has a natural sense of good and bad and he acts on it instinctually. Him wanting to end cell is from muten Roshi's teachings.
I think you meant "isn't from Muten Roshi's teachings" and I agree, or rather I think Roshi's teachings were the cherry on top of a pure heart and instinctive empathy
@@beccasalt8960 Goku's nature embodies Muten roshi's teachings because of grandpa Gohan's effect on Goku's heart. Muten roshi only reinforced those teachings, but Goku doesn't consciously practice it, he naturally does. When someone is threatening the earth or doing injustice you should deal with them with one blow, that's why Goku wanted Gohan to end Cell. Goku will always encourage everyone to practice martial arts, causing them some type of purification, just like grandpa Gohan did to Goku. You become a lost cause when you refuse to practice martial arts, thus, being dealt with by Goku. Goku doesn't create any type of moral idea. Everything is centered around martial arts and its ethics of what you should do in those situations to avoid karma in a way. That's why the interaction between Goku and Moro is so important, and why Goku constantly references his earthling nature when ultra instinct.
@@painebatke9144 that's true, grandpa Gohan was a big influence on Goku's good nature, and Gohan was indeed influenced by Roshi. I hadn't considered that as deeply before. Thank you for reminding me 😊
In the granola arc goku also tells gas they have no beef and can all stop fighting since their motives were different and werent enemies
He wanted a sparring partner, not a psychotic villain wanted to destroy or dominate the universe. The thing is the writer mostly put Goku in this kind of situation like Batman deciding to kill or not
Next Carthu video: is Gohan a nerd? (Yes)
And he'd follow it up with "And that's a good thing"
But after that we get: What if Dragon Ball was BAD? (GT) [And that's a terrible thing]
"Goku doesn't see himself as a hero, but it doesn't mean he isn't one," basically.
People forget that being a hero doesn't always mean you gotta be the leader of virtue. You can still do some things or have traits that are very unheroic. Marvel has shown this all the time
• Avenges Kuririn
• Saves the earth from Piccolo Daimao
• Sacrifices to save his son and the planet against Raditz
• Avenges the Saiyans (yes, he DID say that to himself, once Vegeta was k*lled)
• Sacrifices again to protect the earth from blowing up
• *Chooses* to stay dead, as he feels like his existence is a threat to his loved ones
Toriyama: Nah, he's not a hero though
Toriyama didn’t directly say that
@@9inesmalty he said something along the lines tho 🤣🤣🤣
Ik ik...i made a joke 🤣
he didnt avenge the Namekians and Saiyans. he just wanted to stop Frieza from his evil deeds but he didnt do it for them.
@@nixda9326 Not for them, specifically, but they were at least a part of it.
He didn't avenge anyone if he spared frieza
I like to think that the reason Goku’s emotional priorities have switch so more to him being excited for fights over everything else in DBS is because he’s gotta much more powerful now and coming across beings that can still rival him in strength is even more exciting than before. Goku knows he’s getting closer and closer to the power ceiling so him getting a chance to still challenge himself is an opportunity he doesn’t want to miss
@@bippy515 Goku: “Oh my gosh, someone STRONGER than me?! FREAKING FINALLY!!!,,!!!,!”
I always thought it's because he's less stressed. He has Beerus and Whis helping him solve problems now. For the first time in his life, he's not the only competent team member
@@hoohoo431so we can say he felt what it’s like to be a non saiyan z-fighter, they are more chill and less stressed because they have insurance with goku and vegeta
@@hoohoo431 And they have Dragon Balls. And not one. They have Earth, Namekian, Super and Cerealian Dragon Balls.
Also many of his opponents in Super aren't very evil so they won't generate the same kind of anger in Goku you'd get from Z. Goku Black and Zamasu being the exception.
I think people sometimes forget that heroes are just as flawed as anyone else is. What makes a hero heroic is that they know they have flaws, and yet they strive to overcome them when it comes to doing the right thing. If heroes were perfect they would be gods, and would be unable to relate to mere mortals in any meaningful way.
Hmm, that's a very insightful comment. Perhaps that links to the seeming change in Goku's personality in Dragon Ball Super? They knew they were headed the 'God' direction and made Goku's character reflect some of that distance?
@@beccasalt8960it’s more like the stakes are completely different there’s no world ending threat in super Beerus is a god they can’t just beat, frieza comes back and is killed again, the tournament is just a fun tournament, goku black arc is about another time line entirely and everything they did still wasn’t enough so they needed help which Goku called, tournament of power wasn’t selfish because Zeno was planning on eradicating the universes with no chance but Goku gave them a chance, these are very different and complicated situations vs dbz where it’s just z fighters vs big bad to save the world or to get the dragon balls
Literally DBZ Kai episode 95 is called "A Hero's Sacrifice! Last Chance to Save the World!" (It's talking about Goku's sacrifice against cell)
Dang, only 95 episodes to reach there? Kai really is condensed. OwO
@@sumeracarnatia6997 Kai removed most filler episodes to make it more accurate to the manga version of DBZ.
@yoonwasxd2560 And lost a lot of the build-up among other things in the story because of this.
@@Xcopyz it’s not build up if it’s filler
@@Xcopyz Especially in the Saiyan Arc where Gohan’s development gets skimmed over without the anime’s added material.
Being a hero means protecting those you love alongside with having the desire to keep a promise with those who you trust with which turns into power.
That literally just isn’t true
Love The Use Of "Hero" By Flow in the back
lol noticed that too
What was the remix of hero he used? I can’t find it anywhere on RUclips? I need to listen to the variation he used in the beginning of the vid
But no "I need a hero" from Shrek 2, so I have to give the video a 0/10.
@@CR1MSONACE 😂
Carthu your analogy was really good. Words can't express how well you explained the word *"Heroism"*
"The eastern mentality of doing your job, and with it helping people out in your way" was the intention of this show. You explained it nicely.
You seriously know your stuff. You're the only dbz youtuber, who actually knows the story in depth, and actually does his homework before making a video
No, he's talking nonsense. He talks nonsense, he's a fanatic obsessed with Toei's Goku, yet the author clearly said that Goku was not a hero.
There's a reason for that, and the manga makes it very clear, Goku made a lot of selfish decisions and the author illustrated it very well, Goku was disappointed not to have fought against the cyborgs, he was more shocked by that than learning that the world of the future was annihilated, have you also forgotten that this same Goku refused Bulma's proposal to use the dragon balls to find Dr. Gero? Why in your opinion? Because he's not a hero he was more interested in fighting the cyborgs than the planet being trashed.
Leaving Vegeta alive was a purely selfish decision, himself and Krillin recognized it, it was a whim of Goku, and the manga is very clear about it, but you want to contradict it?
Goku is just like a human with empathy but he has a lot of flaws, like all of Tori's characters, he purposely made his characters have so many flaws, he helps others out of empathy, but is not a hero, his selfish desires take precedence over his benevolent actions, throughout the manga it's like this, Not killing buu and leaving the land between children of 7 and 8 years old, was a stupidity, Goku is the reason for Buu waking up with Vegeta, but he wanted to let Goten and Trunks take care of it? that's stupid, Goku thought everyone wants a good fight like him?
all the bad decisions repeated are there to show that Goku is not a hero, just a warrior with empathy and full of faults and vices.
@@benimpanu4405 where am i
@@benimpanu4405 I should never argue with a dragon ball fan, cuz I know that they haven't even watched their own show 🤣
@@souptikchakraborty.yt.2024 that defines you well, the manga is there but you refuse to look the truth in the face.
Didn't Goku refuse Bulma's proposal to find Dr. Gero with the dragon balls? answer, but since you are a fanatic you will say the opposite, the manga is very clear. Goku makes selfish decisions even at the expense of the earth.
@@benimpanu4405Being selfish sometimes doesn't mean he's NOT a hero. A hero is someone who goes out of their way to help others, while expecting nothing in return. Not being 110% selfless at all times doesn't mean he's unworthy of the title. No one's perfect, after all.
Glad we’re talking about this.
Goku may not be a traditional superhero, but he certainly is a hero.
What an inspiration.
8:36
Carthu: "Ok, now no more Super Saiyan 3 trash talk for a little while, I promise."
Super Saiyan 3: 😡
Goku is MY hero🫶
No he's not, Goku is OUR HERO🫶
He’s my dad
@@jpjthethe NO He is not ,HE IS THE UNIVERSE'S HERO
ME TOO
@@zaviyargulGoku is THE LIGHT IN DARKNESS🫶
I think another key factor about the change between Z goku and Super goku is that he is obviously ALOT stronger now so his urge to fight even more dangerous fighters is way more active
I think the same way. Goku in DBS is miles stronger than DBZ Goku. So increased strength also increased his urge to fight. Also, DBZ has broadened the horizons by allowing bad guys to come from space like Frieza or Buu so you wouldn't know what would come next. DBS on the contrary set the ceiling. We know that Zeno is the strongest but we don't know what enemy would come between current Goku and Zeno.
@@zigmantasbajoras prrty sure its been stated the goku at the end z is stronger than granolah arc goku but alright
@@the_uneven_arctics The End of Z may still be canon but we can't be sure what creators do in the future. Maybe they would remake the ending to suit Super better.
@@zigmantasbajoras it is stated it's gonna lead up to the end of Z
@@the_uneven_arctics I know but I think it limits Super growth. For example, Pan in Super looks older than she was in The End of Z. In my honest opinion, they should just remake the end when they feel confident. Also what difference it makes if End of Z Goku is stronger than current Goku?
I mean yeah he has saved billions of people on countless occasions. Even if he's not some paragon of virtue like superman(sometimes is) he's still a good person that's saved countless people
Nah, goku totally only saved those billions of lives or brought all the innocent people that were harmed, all back with the dragon balls out of selfishness.
Guy literally had a song in Battle of Gods called "Hero: Song of Hope" how is this even a discussion?
And there was a song in Shrek 2 called "I need a hero" sung by the main villain.
This isn't arguing against anything I just wanted to remind people how good the fairy godmothers version of the song ism
what
Its good to see that people still watch dragon ball. Not Z, super or gt, but the 1st series
This is a sentiment I've been trying to convey for ages! Thanks for making it in the form of a well-structured and researched video.
Goku isn't a superhero, but he is absolutely a hero.
The editing in this video was absolutely incredible, great job Mjxtv
the analogy was crazy, and the definition of the word heroism
Oh my God, I am so happy that you posted a new video. Thank you.
I’m convinced DBZA is the best, and worst thing to ever grace the dragon ball fandom
I will never fucking forgive them for the "Goku's a bad dad" narrative
@@NoName...... and then fake fans role with it like it’s the gospel
It's a pretty good thing, it's just unfortunate that the average DBZ fan is as sharp as a sphere and takes non-canon jokes as facts.
@@NoName......they even said themselves, they never started the bad dad, they sure made jokes about it where people just take it too far. Goku isn’t a bad dad, he just isn’t very understanding of gohan until obviously later
I mean. It's not their fault that fans don't read the original and take the jokes too literally
Goku is a Hero, he is as he says himself not a Hero OF JUSTICE, ehich are usually Super Heroes, and Goku is not one of those, he helps People when he can, usually with Fighting
Thank you for using the text of the original manga to defend Goku. He's always been a hero. He's not Superman and he LOVES fighting, but when it comes down to it, Goku chooses to save others.
Bro has ZERO evil in his heart. He’s a fucking hero, no debate
Facts
The promise you've made back in your "Moro Saga" video has finally been fulfilled. Thank you. 🙏🏼
I remember in the super manga when zamasu and black were about to fuse, he immediately shouted for vegeta to "finish them". And then when vegeta looked at him confused, goku shot a blast at them. I thought that was a cool moment.
Yeah, Goku had no problem eliminating dangerous threats like the times Goku killed King Piccolo out of revenge without a second thought, or the determined eyes when he realized Moro would never change and about to destroy the goat in honor of Merus's request. How come people never talk about this?
@@45_nguyenhaiangviet95 Probably because he gave Moro a Senzu before then when he didn't have to, which Jaco himself pointed out.
There’s also the fact that Goku actually gave the other lower level Universes plus his own a shot at survival in the T.O.P. Even though people(both in the story and in the real world) foolishly insist that he was the one to put everyone in danger. Even to this day, people still blame Goku, like they haven’t watched the anime or read the manga.
Edit: Please don’t type in THAT Dragon Ball meme(for it shall not be named) in reaction to this, it’s gross exaggeration and misrepresentation of Dragon Ball fans as whole as it doesn’t represent every single fan of the franchise.
Because the writers knew they wrote themselves into a corner and decided to throw in at the last minute that Goku “gave the other universes a fighting chance”, which is cap because if any other universe won, and used the Super Dragon Balls for a selfish wish, the Zenos would’ve erased all the universes anyway. On top of all that, Goku didn’t know any of this, he simply wanted to fight strong people from the other universes.
@@Hyperslayer_X It’s not cap, Goku giving others a shot at survival. Even though it wasn’t intentional on his part, it is what it is. It was a test to see if at least one of the Universe would look after their fellow mortals, which happened in the end. I do however think the manga handled this better by actively showing us both Zenos contemplating on whether or not they should erase the lower universes before Goku showed up.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 Read my comment again because I explained how Goku was unaware that him fulfilling his selfish desire of wanting to fight strong opponents from the other universes would also mean give them a fighting chance. Goku didn’t know the Zenos were going to erase the lower universes, and if any of the other universes won and used the Super Dragon Balla for a selfish wish, the Zenos would’ve erased them anyway, and pretty much no one else other than Goku (and likely Gohan) would’ve made a selfless wish.
It’s a classic example of plot convenience. 17 deciding to wish all the universes back to honor Goku’s hard work in the tournament is pure plot convenience because he had no reason not to just wish for what he wanted, but you see, if he did, U7 would’ve gotten erased. The ToP was poorly written no matter which way you slice it, although sure, the manga was better in some aspects than the anime.
@@Hyperslayer_X It wasn’t plot convenience on 17’s part. 17 understood that making an unselfish wish was the right thing to do, or the “human” thing to do as he would describe it, like “sacrificing” himself to give Goku and Vegeta some time to recover. Do I think it could have been better? Yes, anything can be better, but I think it handled relatively well and showed the development of 17’s character; from being nihilistic about the T.O.P.’s losing conditions via getting erased to growing to understand significance of making an unselfish wish.
@@maximillianoorosco-randhaw9336 I do agree that from 17’s perspective it did help with his character development, but from Goku’s? Nah, he basically got lucky. Goku definitely fought extremely hard in the TOP, but Frieza and 17 came in clutch to save the day at the end. Goku failed to knock out Jiren when he was at his strongest (MUI) and it nearly cost U7 the tournament since after Jiren was reinvigorated by Top’s motivational speech, he was more than capable of using the last of strength to knock out Frieza and 17. Goku got really lucky that the cards were in his favor. Typical Shounen protagonist moment.
Without any reasoning, questions or explanation, Goku is a hero Period.
I consider this a pseudo sequel to your "Morality of Son Goku" video which to me is the greatest Goku character breakdown ever recorded.
Bro, Goku literally tells Frieza to watch out for his own blast and even gives him a second chance which was completely undeserved. He watches out for everyone, even the selfish scourge of the entire universe
Bc of his morality
Goku: "I'm not some hero of justice."
Akira Toriyama: "Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others... I've always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him."
Carthu: and I took that personally
Toriyama contradicted himself all the time though. Even in the super manga Goku said he is not a hero and merus, an angel, disagreed with him.
I love Toriyama but I don't think that quote jives with how he actually wrote Goku.
You're missing the point, he said he didnt like goku being portrayed as a "righteous hero", like how the american dub usually did it.
I'd say Goku is a hero, but not the traditional comic book one from like the 1900's where they practically faced no real hardships because some deus ex machina thing would save their butts.
@@jesser5138you need to shut up because you obviously never read a comic in your life
@@146zigzag3 Exactly If he didn't want Goku to be a hero then why does every Character in Dragon Ball think GOku is a hero. Also If he wasn't a hero he wouldn't be able to keep his body after he dies. King Yama, the god of Death, said that because Goku is a martial arts hero who saved the Earth, he has to keep his body. Also, Because Goku is a Hero, King Yama gave him his wish and reincarnated Buu into UUB!
King Yama is the proof that Akira Toriyama thought Goku was a hero! Goku was allowed to keep his body 2 Times and was granted a wish by the god of death.
I would say yes. Goku has saved Earth, other planets, the Galaxy, the Universe, and the Multiverse just by being himself.
what? heroic deeds and an heroic mindset makes you a hero? what kind of nonesense are you talking about?
It's been a while since i watched dbs, but wasn't goku the reason why the multiverse was put at risk of dying. dude probably cause an unfathomable amount of deaths just by that alone
(Now idk about the dbs cosmology and how it works but would souls die aswell or do they go to another place outside the universe or something)
@@2magnet no, zeno was gonna destroy it anyway, goku gave everyone a chance, if you can blame goku for something is that he could have waited a little longer before asking zeno about the tournament so everyone could prepare better
@@2magnet If it wasn’t for Goku being himself, the universes would’ve been done, Zeno considered destroying the universes in the first place because he was literally getting bored of everything.
@@2magnetin the manga he's about to erase 4 universes (including theirs), so he kinda saved them
The abridged roast is wild 😂
It's more off a roast to brain dead fans than the abridged it's self
And undeserved
@@samueloak1600more like heavily deserves. Ya’ll still laugh at “bad dad Goku” despite everything he’s done before and after Raditz. But I guess a good dad would never sacrifice himself to save his kid. Least we know what kind of coward parent you’ll be.
@@DarkEclipse23 Toriyama was joking about Gokū being a bad dad before TFS even existed. He also said Gokū wasn't a hero before that! So how is it their fault when the author himself pushes these misconceptions?
@@cianmartin3588both because both sides are being ignorant
“This truly was, Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero”
Absolute Cinema
Goku has every qualification of being a hero, fights for justice, protects innocent, and keeps is friends and loved ones safe. He even sacrificed himself multiple times to save earth, and people complain that Goku wasn't there for his son, HE WAS DEAD 💀
But........but ....... Toriyama said no. You must be thinking of the English DUB Goku
-BS I have heard for many years from many so-called "fans"
Goku is not a hero in his own perspective clearly he is a hero from others perspective but even then most of the problems he resolves are things his actions or omission of actions provoked, the dead of uppa's dad and his fight with tao pai pai was because he decided to challenge the RR army, piccolo's unsealing was thanks to fucking with pilaf and not taking them seriously (granted it wasn't entirely his fault), piccolo jr. Was also his fault and he knew he was on earth since the beginning tho piccolo has done more good deeds than bad ones, the saiyans going to earth was his fault which in result also made them have to go to namek and fight frieza, the androids were his fault, buu wasn't entirely his fault but he had a hand on it, bills was/wasn't his fault i mean the prediction of the saiyan god was him but it's not like he was aware of that himself, frieza coming back was his fault, black was his fault, both tournaments weren't his fault so at least he has that W, finally cell max was his fault.
Admittedly he didn't want any of that to happen but his actions were the fire that initiated all of those problems.
The androids and the saiyans wasn’t even his fault. How was he supposed to know that he has an older brother.
@@isaacbell5156 The androids's kind of his fault for destroying the Red Ribbon army and Dr.Gero was a part of it and wanted revenge on Goku for stopping their world domination
@@45_nguyenhaiangviet95 Without Goku Red ribben army would of rule the world with the dragon balls. Red ribben army was terrorizing people but it's Goku fault for protecting people and the world from them?
@@45_nguyenhaiangviet95 that's like saying it was Europe's fault that Hitler did what he did, because he did that in response to the actions taken against Germany after WW1 and the poverty they faced.
A hero in simple terms is someone who does right and challenges the wrongs.
Goku does do bad things that get him and everyone in danger. Be it letting vegeta and freiza go but his heart is pure in seeing the best in people and wanting to bring that out of then like wishing for kid buu to come back a good person and fat buu becoming a good guy.
IF Letting Vegeta and Frieza Go is bad then Batman is a Horrible person for letting the Joker Go
But Goku has some right and challenged wrong all the time, as this video demonstrates. Just because he doesn't always do the right thing doesn't make him less of a hero.
Fat Buu becoming good was entirely Mr. Satan’s influence; no pun intended.
@@NickMorrison78 Except that influence only happened because goku told Buu he didn't need to listen to babidi, which funny enough is more proof towards why goku is a hero.
Are you blaming Goku for the actions of other people who were given instructions to leave and never return and were given the opportunity to turn over a new leaf? We can't blame him for that. He gave them a chance and they blew it, so he took responsibility for eliminating the problem. It was still the *villains* who did the bad things. Don't get confused my man...
I feel like Super's characterization is Goku having just come out of retirement from thinking there's nothing to aspire to anymore, and the introduction of gods and the multiverse suddenly breaks the ceiling he thought he reached.
Its like a very humanizing midlife crisis thing and also a testament to how powerful he's gotten, even Weiss mentioned how a flaw in his character is his over confidence of his strength.
This is something I've always thought too, since DBS interestingly puts Goku back in the position of a student. Over time I just thought he was less stressed because he's got Beerus and Whis to deal with shit so he's not the only member on the team getting shit done.
Although, your idea makes sense to me, especially since in DBS Broly he says that until Broly showed up, he thought he hit his peak
before i started watching you carthu i didn't know a thing about db thank you
Love this video! Thank you Carthu, I've been waiting for someone else to say this!
0:47 by the Size it might've been a Rat and not a Mouse, HE DID NOT JUST SAVE IT BY HOLDING IT IN HIS MOUTH, RIGHT? NO WONDER HE GOT A HEART VIRUS
Dawg I was about to say maybe that damn rat gave him the heart virus
Y’all did Goku so wrong for that! 🤣
Hey man thank you for the years of entertainment this really helped me out during highschool
I never understood why Toriyama complained about Goku being portrayed as a hero in the Anime when that's how Toriyama himself wrote Goku in the Original Manga, i never got that
@@BardockSkywalker Toriyama: “Um, he’s not a hero.”
Fans who actually watch Dragon Ball: “Do you…know what a hero is?”
@Cameron_Pratt Exactly
No disrespect for the king, he's amazing & i still miss the guy so much
Exactly. That always confused me. Like, you don't like that the anime portrays Goku as a hero, but the anime's a 1-to-1 representation of the manga. So you're unsatisfied with how YOU wrote him?
Idk, it always seem kinda off. Add tp that Toriyama not remembering half the show. This just sounds like 1 of those toriyama comments where he's completely out of touch with his own series
It’s pretty clear that he means Goku isn’t the *conventional* hero though. Like his intentions was to make Goku _not_ just the average Superman archetype, hence his dissatisfaction with how the anime made him more heroic looking (like the Funimation dub). But obviously yes, he’s literally written the guy to be a hero in his own unique, rambunctious way, he knew what he was saying lol. It’s just that he never wanted Goku to be seen as a hero, because that’s not what his character is about; the whole point is that he’s a hero as a _byproduct_ of his own silly, fun, exciting adventures, and kind-hearted nature
What he meant is Goku's intention was not heroic, just priority seeking strong opponents to spar with but most of them were bad and worse, but his actions was defined as heroism as he's defending the Earth, protecting people from Red Ribbon army, eliminating galatical threats
Goku may not consider himself a hero of justice, but he's absolutely a hero
And you are my hero Carthu ❤️
I think the best way to put it is Goku is a hero but not always necessary heroic because Goku does make some questionable decisions that a hero probably wouldn’t make but ultimately Goku has done way more good for the world than vice versa so Goku still a hero in my book
When u say Questionable decision that a hero probably wouldn't make, I am assuming u just like everyone else are talking about letting Villains live. I am sorry, but that is exactly what a superhero would do. Batman, Superman, and Spiderman 3 of the most famous Superheroes around the world refuses to kill their villains who by all means deserve to die!
@@sonnywoods6846 but would a hero purposefully put their own selfish desires over the potentially safety of others? Like sparring a dangerous villain and just letting them get away(not even locking them up) just so you can have a rivial to fight? Or letting villains power up to max so you get more of a thrill ? Or potentially putting the multiverse in danger just because you want to enjoy a fighting tournament? And I know Zeno was gonna destroy the the universes anyways but Goku wouldn’t have known that Goku not a bad person but he has made some pretty selfish decisions that I don’t think a hero would exactly make
@@TheLilsamrules Batman does that every single time he refuses to kill the Joker.
Not wanting to break his moral code over preventing more deaths is a selfish desire.
And don't bother mentioning 'locking them up' again. Batman knows they will escape. EVERYONE knows it, even the villains knows it. It has become a joke that they can just walk out the frontdoor of the prison.
@@miniman649 interesting point yeah fair enough cuz the joker is a menace and he should’ve been killed a long time ago tbh
@@TheLilsamrulesgoku later regretted letting vegeta go in the manga when talking to king Kai about the situation on namek in the manga. What I like about this goku versus the funi dub goku is that the manga and Kai Goku is really just a regular guy with flaws who does heroic deeds when it’s within his presence. He’s flawed like us but will do the right thing when necessary instead of being a perfect hero like he was portrayed as in the funi dub which is kinda boring. He learns from Frieza that not everyone can change their ways and he stops sparing people after this so he’s learned from his past mistakes
guys look, the super saiyan 3 sucks guy uploaded!
Ssj3 is the most heroic form change my mind(after ssj ofc)
@@Antonio_Dude it's an inside joke that all carthu's known for is cause he says ssj3 sucks
@@karakai01 Yeah im aware thats why I mentioned this because it aligns with the context of the video despite him hating the form
@@Antonio_Dude also the most heroic form was kaioken for me
nevermind thats actually a technique, ssj2 it is
I loved this 😄. A truly fantastic video
He is a good hearted person that helps when he can, but doesn't actively seek out of his way to help people.
He's a Reactive Hero not an Active one, still a hero.
I'll never ever get tired of frieza's ridiculous expressions as he gets obliterated
Bro I've been waiting for your video 🙏🙏
He's is Earth's savior after all!
Thank you Carthu for defending Goku, the amount of times I see people say he does good things only because he is getting a good fight out of it is unreal and downright disrespectful towards the character. More people need to watch this fr.
DBS, DBZA and the goku haters be ruining goku's reputation as a person
Don't blame dbza it's a parody! it's not there fault dragon balls fans can't read!
It's unfortunately also Toriyama himself who contradicted his own writing of Goku during the Super era.
Abridged says it's a parody and to support the official release at the start of every episode. But, we all know what I'm about to say next...
*Dragon Ball fans can't read.* All they know is eat hot chip and lie.
Famous DBZA fan and Goku hater Toriyama Akira
@@muffinfighter3680in fairness. Toriyama mentioned he made it a goal to forget previous arcs as he had to always be corrected on super saiyan being 50x and not 10x.
Goku is A hero,but in his own way.He just does what He feels is right or good.Goku is someone who always relies on his instincts,Both in a battle sense and a moral sense.
I never understood Toryama's reluctance to call Goku a "hero." He even said he didn't like how the anime depicted Goku he wanted him to come off as "more selfish" (which makes no sense considering that for Z the characteration between manga and anime wasnt that different)
Toriyama: *Literally makes Goku a hero.*
Also Toriyama: “Guys wdym he’s a hero he’s really not lol.”
I think it's more so how Toriyama probably viewed a hero role himself, especially with Goku's driving force to be largely selfish (he wants to keep fighting strong people for the sake of his own growth)
@@Cameron_PrattYea because that’s how manga writing for a huge conglomerate works lol Toriyama stated himself that he was pressured and forced by his editors to make Goku more heroic for commercial reasons.
I always personally took it as how in One piece Luffy says he isn't a hero they both are heros to others but they're not trying to be and Gokus selfishness does have him do things like spare Vegeta or give Cell a senzu bean but he does try to do the right things when he has the opportunity he's just not looking for that opportunity like say spiderman would
Maybe a bit cynical to say. But Goku randomly becoming selfish is a good way to stop him from being pro-active for a day and then be pro-active for the entire arc after. So the villain can become a threat
The best song in Dragon Ball is called Hero Song of Hope for a reason.
Goten is the biggest victim of Goku's decision to stay dead. Bro never got to have a dad as his father chose to stay in the afterlife rather than raise him, which I really empathize with as someone who's been abandoned by my father figure
That's because Goku didn't want his son wife and friends to be in danger by him being there the Saiyans came for Goku Frieza came for Goku the red ribbon army came for Goku
Goku thought it would be best if he stayed dead to keep them safe
@@miguelanderson4116 Yeah I know but that doesn't chsnge the fsct that he left Goten fatherless, and besides Goku ended up coming back anyway and staying alive and by the time Cell was dead all of Goku's opps other thsn the Pilaf Gsng were already gone, it's an understandable decision, but it was the wrong decision to make
@@kekshrekmcgee5104he didn’t know Goten existed.
@@DarkEclipse23 How did he not? That makes him even worse, he could've checked in on his family every day with King Kai but he didn't. The idea that he didn't know who Goten was makes Goku look super negligent and like a horrible father
Had he stuck around, Goten would've just been in danger. The earth was peaceful for 7 years, but as soon as he comes back for one day, Majin Buu gets released.
I'm definitely not one to excuse someone abandoning their kid(s), but it isn't like he didn't have a justifiable reason.
Also, pretty sure he didn't know about Goten. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been surprised to see him at the tournament.
“I ain’t no hero of justice or anything else like that, but anyone who tries to hurt my friends is gonna PAYYYY🗣️🗣️
YOULL PAY FOR THATTTTT
Kinda reminds me of Sonic in a way
@@EnzoGranzotto sonic copied dragon ball and with both of them being the mcs sonic copied or took inspiration from Goku
@@Himmy-bi1wbYeah,Though I'm sometimes thinking if Hyper Sonic inspired Ultra instinct
I was in front of the tv “TALK THAT TALK 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️”
What is acting like a superhero? Most MCU heroes are engaging in personal conflict, doing their job, or acting in self-preservation. Very few of them are just professional vigilantes, fighting crime for the sake of it. Spider-Man sure.
Just look at phase one
- Iron Man: Entirely selfish motivations.
- Thor: Really just wants to get his hammer back and stop his brother from overthrowing his kingdom.
- Captain America: Is a soldier and later a government agent. Doing his job.
The Hero remix at the start of the video was a nice touch
Thank you for this video, Carthu. I'm sick of people saying my goat isn't a hero 🙏🏽
kid goku was a gem. its still hard for me to fathom that he's grown into such a powerful and fine man that even gods of the highest rank respect him
Goku is a hero by his actions. It’s
Not his primary goal.
Superman’s whole character and purpose are to be a hero.
That’s why for me Goku is the GOAT!
I feel like that’s why there’s a disconnect. Traditional heroes live and fight TO save people. It’s their primary objective. So yes. Goku doesn’t fight because heroes fight villains. He fights because he won’t shy away if a threat catches his attention.
So I agree with toriyama. He isnt a hero of justice who fights in the name of justice. He’s a hero because it’s the morally right thing to be and do.
This video is a W
Welcome back, Carthu. 👍🏼
Goku may not be a traditional "superhero" but that doesn't make him a traditional "hero". He doesn't want to fight villains, he wants to fight strong people, it just so happens that those strong people are usually villains.
Hey man, you’re cool, just wanted to support you and ask you a question!
Do you ever think you’re gonna make a video on Goku’s character writing or the series as a whole? A lot of people think of Dragon Ball as a power fantasy slop series with brain dead character writing, so would you be down to do a video to show that “Powering up and screaming” isn’t all there is to the series?
Thank you for the Super! I think I do that by covering elements of the series the way I do. There could be a time I see making a video just about the topic of what Dragon Ball is more thoroughly but I think deep diving elements of it and answering questions people are interested in is the best way to at least introduce people to the intricacies of the series
@@CarthusDojo That’s fair, I like the videos so keep em coming!
This is probably not a popular opinion to hold, but he's a hero in the Sonic the Hedgehog sense (game version). Someone that does heroic deeds, but don't regard themselves as heroes.
I disagree sonic is way more heroic
@@Therealones745 True, he acts way more selflessly, than Goku. I'm more referring to their personal views of themselves, which if asked they'd probably wouldn't call themselves heroes.
Considering how much of Sonic is inspired by DB this absolutely makes sense.
THANK YOU it feels like everyone wants to discredit Goku being a hero ignoring 90% of the story
Carthu you NEED to make a video on why Goku ISN'T a bad dad
it's on the list just not a priority rn
@@CarthusDojo Thank God as long as it's on your list. I'm sick of the whole bad dad thing. (I think abridged is funny but people take it WAY to seriously and genuinely believe Goku is a bad dad and other things you pointed out) 🤣
@@CarthusDojocan't wait for the video
I’ve pondered this question for a great many years, I gotta go with no(you’re not wrong, just expressing my thoughts on a topic that I do find interesting) I think it’s how he handles Freiza which really pushes it over for me
Yo, Carthu, can you make a 1 mil special video by combining all your what ifs into an ultimate what if?
I want a story with elderly goku, being a hermit or something far away, years after end of Z, being a wacky old man telling stories of his past to a new generation.
Goku is not only a hero, he makes heroes out of others as well. He even turns his enemies into heroes.
I like to think Super Goku allows himself to be more relaxed and not worried about the future because he got what he wanted. He's not the only guardian of the earth anymore. Vegeta is actually his equal and pretty invested in the world, and the number of people at his level willing and able to help only grows, with folks like Broly, Gohan, and Piccolo reaching the heights necessary. So he can goof off and enjoy fighting, only getting serious when he really has to.
Goku would 100% do everything in his power to stop the events of 9/11. He might not be “American” in the traditional sense, but he embodies the spirit of protecting innocent lives, standing up to evil, and doing what’s right, no matter the odds. His instinct to save people transcends borders or nationalities-he’d act purely out of his desire to prevent suffering and protect the world, just as our troops have countless times before. To me, Goku is an American hero🇺🇸❤️
I mean you’re not wrong but imagining Goku asking terrorists if they’ve ever trained before has me cackling
@@alexandermcalister1518 Goku would literally just stand there while the terrorist tries to blow him up
The dude CONSTANTLY is saving people and proclaims he fights for the defenseless .He is a Chad .
I think the reason Goku in Super is so much more focused on his own fun is because most of the time the situation isn't THAT dire. His fight with Beerus was to impress him, not a fight to the death. Golden Frieza wasn't much of a threat, hence why Goku and Vegeta could afford to take turns. And both multiversal tournaments, despite the stakes, weren't against evil people.
That's probably why Goku seems so different in the Goku Black arc. The situation is dire, the antagonist is truly evil and his loved ones were harmed. The context is closer to Z, so it makes sense Goku would act like he did in Z.
Super in itself IS more slice of life comedy than either series.
It's unfortunate that there is such a narrative that you even have to make this video, but it's excellent, as always.
mjxtv always coming through with the cleanest editing! it;s so consistent
You seriously know your stuff. You're the only dbz youtuber (aside from Totally not Mark), who actually knows the story in depth, and actually does his homework before making a video.
This, and your morality of Goku video, proves that you understand the character
Uh no, there are others who know the series in depth too.
"casual anime guy explains" is also a good channel if you're looking for stuff like this
I'd argue MistareFusion probably belongs on your list too. Definitely knows the story in bigger depths than the mariana trench.
@@muffinfighter3680 actually i watched casual anime guy explains gohan character arc video
He talked about how gohan behaved uncharacteristic in cell arc when he behaved like a pacifist... But he always was a pacifist... So CAGE, doesn't really understand the character depths..
I watched TotallynotMark's z review, and in that he explained gohan's character in depth and he showed that he was always a pacifist and never actually fought until no choice is left... So his actions during cell games wasn't uncharacteristic
So yeah... CAGE, doesn't understand the characters as much as TotallynotMark or Carthu does. I mean CAGE knows, his stuff... Just that Carthu and TNM, knows better
he wasnt wrong. By the saiyan saga Gohan learned there was no wrong in fighting to protect the ones you love. In namek saga he took advantage and fought hard and earnestly when needed against frieza and his forces. In the android arc, Gohan had the same will and determination. The point of the character was yes he had a note about fighting but he also learned the importance of fighting when he needs to. @@souptikchakraborty.yt.2024
1:51 YES, Carthu, thank you! DBZA is 100% non-canon.
It’s arguably better, but still, it’s a fan work.
Toriyama tries to make goku not a hero, yet he's written our saiyan ironically to be described as one anyway..
Toriyama was inconsistent he says goku isn’t a hero yet goku does heroic acts anyway, he literally vowed to defeat Frieza in the name of everyone he made suffer so that debunks the notion he doesn’t care about innocents. Super Goku is obviously written to act more like luffy instead of the goku in Z
8:36 yeah but like, remember that Toriyama came up with SS3 after Vegeta self Destructed against Buu, so out Universe Goku wasn't Holding back SS3, in Universe, I guess
7:40-7:50
Reminds me to MistareFusion's video about whether or not Goku fits he heroic feel. Still, Goku not requesting to be revived after being killed by Cell always was the weirdest moment I ever watched. Like, he knows he of Goten right?
i like to view him as a hero with a sprinkle of anti-villain. always does good things, but sometimes does it out of his selfishness to fight instead of doing it for good
New Carthu upload 😱
"shuts people up who treat dbza like it's canon" perfectly describes the people I don't ever wanna talk to
He doesn't actively seek to do good things, but when they are laid out in front of him, he almost always takes the time to help.