Professional DMs Suck, and it's Our Fault
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- We suck.
That's right. I'm going pro. Daddy needs a new pair of backdrop lights, and a real camera... and an anti-pop mic.
And I gotta pay for this hoppin' new computer my wife bought for me because marriage is funny that way.
Wanna play D&D with a Grumpy Old Grognard? Here's your chance!
startplaying.g...
Anyway...
Click bait titles aside... Let's talk about professional DMs, the damage they're doing to the hobby, and what we as players and DMs can do about it.
The most valuable strategy I learnt as a player is to keep the GM entertained. If they are on board with what you want to do you will succeed pretty much all of the time.
I appreciate the pizza. I really do. But dude... You rolled a 2.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561
Pizza would be a bribe. I think OP was talking about rule of cool.
I don't indulge rule of cool at my table.
@@agsilverradio2225 This was less about rule of cool than it was about playing a fun and interesting character. However...
I remember a mythic level Celtic campaign I was in. My character was comically stupid, and believed he did not have his own head on his shoulders. At some point he was decapitated. I pointed out the wrong head delusion to the GM and she manifested a donkey's head as a replacement. I don't know about you, but I count that as a win!
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 - It's ALWAYS been about the rule of cool or else it's a boring slogfest. =/
There's 2 parts to the fun I get as a DM. 1) Like you said I get to build a world 2) I get to discover what my players will do with it and see their story unfold in front of my amazed eyes. ☺
I still remember when I first encountered this concept. Dragon Magazine issue 177, January 1992. In the letters column under the title "DM's dilemma: Fee or free?" The author's suggestion of charging "$2 or $3 per person" for running games was seen as so controversial that the editors withheld their name! Needless to say, the official response to the letter was polite, but scathing. Equally scathing was the reader response in subsequent issues. I also thought it was absurd at the time and never imagined it would make such a comeback all these years later. I'll play for the love of the game alone or not at all.
$3 in 92? I Got 5 in '84.
I gotta be honest on this one.
DMing takes up a fair amount of time. Yeah you can run games that aren't super heavy on prep, and those are fun and great, do it. But it does still take some prep, and running the game takes up time. If you're just running games for one group in a week, or you're retired and have a pension or two to work off, more power to you. But people have to be able to pay bills, and certain games have a DM deficit to deal with as well. I don't think it's unreasonable for 3-8 hours of someone's time running the game for you if you part with ten or fifteen bucks for a day of joy.
@@CMacK1294 My firstish time GMing/playing(I had practiced solo and with my late Mom) a ran my a pre-alpha on my Universal TT Wargame/RPG that just had the RPG part added. I played with 6 other players and had only prepped a paragraph and did not have much better in the book... needless to say it when from a one shot to a full adavture that lasted a few months of weekly 9 hour sessions and a peak of 12 players at points... By halfway though I had just a sentience of prep as the game went player driven by that point... And we all had a blast and still talk about the adavture to this day... So yeah If I could run an fun adavture for up to 12 people with little prep and I had just watched TTRPG ttube and RPG shows before hand then frankly anyone can.
@@CMacK1294 Low prep games tend to require more record keeping, so either way you end up doing the work.
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't charge to DM. That would be pretty damned hypocritical of me. What I'm doing is exploring some of the problems in the broader hobby that creates.
The mentality of players for a long time has been that it’s a game they’re playing for the DM, since for the most part we filled out groups with non-gamers among friends and family. It’s a bit different now since we have more players to choose from.
If it's in the monster book it doesn't have feelings and it eats babies.
Very insightful. Agree with pretty much all of it. We need more grognards.
It's the "grumpy" that makes me special.
Damn, I'm so mad I'm night shift. I need an old school game in my life.
Yeah... I have a kid. Kinda limits my available hours.
Some really really really good points in this video. Very even keeled in presentation even when being a bit grumpy. Though that is in the name of the channel so fair game.
Yeah... Introducing new characters take priority. I had a friend who really wanted to join. So I'm like OK let's get your character ready and we'll get this train rolling! When making his character things were diecy but we got it worked, but when do we introduce him? We're a session in at this point and he was meant to be here session 0. So I let one of my other players help him, but I also wanted to know what was happening, but the other player said "I got this". I trusted him and it was agreed upon they would meet my friend's character when they got back to base. Downside is we had to get the characters to agree to go back to base. In character that didn't happen. First time dealing with this kind of thing I didn't know I had to try to get my friend's character in ASAP because my friend was fine with waiting. He must have been giving me a white lie because he didn't want me to feel bad. Because of that experience he was turned off. Now, the next time we had a new player, it was just me and the new player. Can't have too many cooks in the kitchen. He made his character, and we agreed on a backstory and how to introduce him. Since we were in a open wilderness area, it was perfect to introduce his character. My lesson to you all is to 100% be involved or else you will get the first situation I mentioned in this comment.
I just found this channel a couple days ago. Your videos are really cool.
Thanks, Slayer.
I agree with his analysis of "pro DMSs" and people who try to emulate "Critical Role." A good DM is using the players to tell a story and the story is told TOGETHER. The players are the heroes of the game and the DM provides the plot against them, the setting, the NPCs in that setting and all the window dressing. The players are the heroes of their own story and are telling story together. No one knows the outcome, just like no one "wins" the game. It is a cooperative table-top game where the players get together to engage in a story where the DM spurs them on to perform better than they thought they were able to be. A great GM is one that listens to his or her players and pulls them into the story by engaging them. The story is long and time consuming and interspaced with dice rolls, rule lookups, snacks, breaks and other time wasting events. The real story evolves slowly and in bits in pieces. That is why watching an RPG is boring, it takes too long. I am sure "Critical Role" is a great performance, but that is what it is, a performance.
Sorry. I really don't think it's my job to pull them into my story. It's my job to, as a wise man once said (quite recently), facilitate them in writing theirs.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 - Sorry, but I just want to show up & kill shit as an outlet for dealing with customers in retail hell. =p
Your game is going to be awesome! All the best to you.
I used to think I liked TTRPGs. I now realize it was just the gamescience dice and Erol Otus’ art that I liked.
Trampier was my dawg.
It is what is best in TTRPGs.
well thanks for bringing up Erol Otus what a pleasure to google-fu through these masterpieces of old.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 yeah he’s in the running for sure.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 He lived so close to me I likely met him at a game store at some point. Sadly I only learned this after he passed.
Thank you so much for this video. I'm getting back into gaming and I'll ask my players to watch this video.
"...marriage is funny..." just got me :D you´ll earned a like just for that.
"..overheating laptop..." you can try to give it some "breathing" space by putting some books under it (left and right edge) may lady luck grant your laptop a long life so that you as his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of these sagas...tells of the days of high adventure!..." (Drums of Conan the barbarian in the distance)
I do GM for friends so my goddess gracious me I do not had ever to worry about things like content warnings. I did enjoy the list you did set up in the link very much. Much of it appeals to me not as a "warning" but as stuff that is advertising a grim dark exciting game - but what do i know right?
I actually bought a USB cooling fan. I am not letting this rig cook on my lap.
I run a bimonthly campaign for my friends here in Tally. That's not going to change. And I am working on setting up a free kid friendly campaign for my son and his friends on the alternating Weds nights, but if I want more than 1 game a week my goddess has made it very clear that she expects me to gets paid.
And frankly... That's fair.
That was fun to listen to! Good luck getting your game up and running.
I'm not demanding. I figure If I can get two or three good players to start and flesh out the party with a few men-at-arms we can have some fun. It always takes time to get a good campaign off the ground.
Agreed 👍 GMs are not storytellers and that mindset is problematic. I tend to agree with Professor Dungeon Master's take that GM's are are far closer to conflict designers than storytellers. How the PCs resolve the conflict tells a story and helps remove the GM from preconceived notions on what the exact outcome of everything will be.
Dungeon Craft is a fun show. He has mad skills. We have slightly different tastes in game styles, but I also agree with that sentiment. These are the moments when a good DM REALLY needs to close his mouth and open his ears.
I started with 1st edition and 2nd edition. I miss it a lot. Lost all my stuff through multiple moving. I just might sign up just to re-live the experience and the way you put how you handle triggers, I love it. 👍
I hope to see you tomorrow night!
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Week nights are not good for me, mostly weekends will work unfortunately as I have to be up at 3am to get ready for work :( I am on the East Coast so our time zone might differ. I will check back if you have a weekend game I might join. tyvm :) keep the old school alive my friend.
You got it.
Youknow, I think your right on this.
...
I recently heard an "RPG Horror story" where the whole table left because the GM wouldn't let one player reroll some bad stats.
My take was
A) that's the risk you take when you choose to roll inatead of point-buy.
B) I doubt the player would have asked for a reroll if his stats were too high.
and
C) You can just do the reroll when you make your backup pc.
...
Personally, I see apeal in both styles you mentioned.
Streaming DM's are indeed a show and no more bad for D&D than a cartoon movie or TV show UNLESS the new players at the table are unaware of that.
Paid DM's on roll20 are bad because they are not DMing for the game but DMing for the pay. The paid DM is working and not about to piss off his customers and send his money walking out the door. I have heard of the struggles going into finding these cash boys to fill a paid DM's table. It's not east to convince the modern player to fork over cash for something that should be free.
Mat Mercer might be a great DM. I wouldn't know he has never done it in public. What he does is entertainment for the watcher of the show not for the entertainment of any players at his table.
I never watched Dead Poet’s Society, but I bet it was trying to give poets the same feeling I am getting about being a Dungeon Master. This reminds me of the first time I played AD&D with a friend’s older brother-in-law. Luckily when my friend group got into 3.0, our table’s DM managed to get a lot of this innately. He loved building the world, and we loved surviving it. Getting back into gaming with this new online stuff is wild. Thank you so much for putting this out here for those of us who want to really grok what this game was before the world ended in Y2K 😂
About the opening text your right to an extent... As I've seen games more like entertainment and books, movies and TV shows that are more like games... Star wars is by far the biggest example and thought out it's history is most consistent at bringing the viewer into the media and having the feeling of being there like though out my life time I was there to expernice the Clone wars go from a cog in a big bads evil plan. To a major fleshed out war to an awesome fnale. Where you had to be there to expernnce living though the 20 years of IRL time and been their for all the issues. Where as the vast majority of light RPGs tend to be quite limited in the game they provide... Like you play them for flavor not substance so yeah while vary true the line can get blured some times.
I've a small group of friends and we've been playing 5e for something like 3 years with me as a DM; I'm saying this because we really haven't had the chance to play with other systems or under other more experimented DMs, but I'm doing my best to learn as we go and do my research on previous editions to enrich the game through homebrewing old rules and encounters into our campaigns (the bright side of 5e being so open-ended I guess?). Your videos have been really useful, I've been checking Pathfinder and Castles and Crusades out!
Right now I find myself a bit stuck with my progress and I was hoping for some advise? I try to act as a narrator and just limit myself to managing the world around them, but my players are kind of passive and barely interact with my world unless I drop a really obvious plot hook or railroad them. I think this falls into your points about DMs acting as storytellers and I agree that herding my players because of their lack of initiative is slowly but surely getting tiresome.
Well, one problem you're having is that you're playing a system that's not designed to be played by characters that want to choose their own path. Even when WotC does a "sandbox" game you get something like Phandelver of Annihilation. It's still a linear story. It just takes place on a larger map.
Try this...
Map the area directly around the players to, say, 6 miles per hex. Towns. Dungeons. Temples and monasteries. Ruins. One or two natural landmarks.
You don't need a detailed history but write out a few notes. When was the area settled. Who built the ruins and dungeons in the area.
Next, instead of throwing out "plot hooks," create a rumor table. Instead of plotting out a story, make tables for random encounters and events.
Let the story unfold, and the players won't be able to help making decisions that will begin to shape the world they are living in. They will have no choice but to learn about the setting, because they are a part of it.
Back when D&D first started out we used the Outdoor Survival map as our world. If you'd like to see an example of such a setting, I took the time to write mine out for my home-made OD&D box set:
drive.google.com/file/d/1xTEqNsfuf_RPCuRmSgY16T0YB-8AHW6g/view?usp=sharing
I am not suggesting you need something THIS primitive, but it will give you some idea of what we used to do that that the players found so naturally engaging.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Thank you so much! It's nice to see my DM notes weren't too far off from what's expected for a more open game, it means I'm on the right track haha.
I'm especially thrilled with the concept of a rumor table, it simply didn't come to my mind but it makes perfect sense. My players are fond of roleplaying during downtime so I think it'll feel very natural for them to learn about possible new quests/points of interest through the grapevine.
Again, thanks a bunch and best of luck with that campaign! I hope we'll get to hear about it sometime :D
This was an awesome watch. 👍
Thanks, Steve. I had a lot of fun making it; even if I do come across with a certain "old man yells at cloud" vibe.
Agreed, it is a shame we can only give this content one thumbs 👍
In terms of equipment upgrades, I'd say for your style of videos, the only significant one is a better mic. Anything more is just a bonus.
Thanks, but I am literally filming on my phone.
I wouldn't be able to attend during the times and day you're going to be running, but I hope all goes well! I used to play 2e back when I was 8 or 9 years old. Not a fan of the race selection of 2e, personally, but you do you! Hope you have a great time! :D
I get it. I have dad duties. It severely limits my available game times. Even old geezers like me can fire off a live round every now and then.
@Grumpy Old Grognard Yeah, no worries! Just work and home life has their time requirements. I hope you and your players have an amazing time!
@@DarkKnightCuron Well... If this campaign takes off I have no doubt my wife will be willing to part with my company one or two more nights per week. Stay tuned!
Storytelling...ugh....if I wanted to tell the players a story, I'd grab a paperback off the shelf and commence reading. My function as DM is more like a stage director--I set the scene, provide some detail, and what happens next is entirely up to the players.
Damn, its at 1.30 Am for me.
Sorry. I have an 11-year-old son. It leaves me a terribly narrow window in the evenings for recreational activities.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Yeah I know how that feels. Being in Iceland and thus a different time-zone doesn´t help either.
When I'm GMing for my young teenage cousins, who are new to the game. I try to be as impartial and as vague in terms of lore/story elements as possible. So in that way they're used to how a game is meant to be played. I think they're getting it, slowly but surely haha.
If they are seeking lore, and more story elements, they have to hunt for it in game. I don't drop exposition on my players, ever.
It's something I never liked from games I was a player in.
Yes. Absolutely! Exploration is a huge part of the game!
I'm a grumpy-middle-aged grognard, and the best advice in this video is stop being a story-teller. I've said for years that the GM is a story-facilitator, not a story-teller. Story-tellers should stick to writing.
Story facilitator. I am stealing that!
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Glad I could inspire!
While I'm at it: I also tell players "I don't create solutions, I create problems. The solutions are your job" because my biggest pet peeve as a player was when I had a DM that had only one specific solution to an obstacle and wouldn't accept any alternative.
You will be streaming/recording/publishing these games you play on your channel yes?
No. I don't want anyone feeling like they have to perform. I just want to give my players a fun game. Besides, Not everyone WANTS to be on RUclips.
I would absolutely be open to doing a livestream, but for all the reasons I've gone over in painful detail over the course of this video, that's a VERY different project than running a real D&D game, and even if I wanted to do that it would take time to find a good team of committed players who would actually want to participate.
Nah. This isn't a content creation gimmick. I just wanna run a few games each week.
If you ever do find a willing group...
1) be good advertising.
2) save the games and moments for posterity.
3) give people an example of what you mean in thus video.
4) teach people about ad&d and how games use to (or should) run.
Hope you get the chance, cheers!
I always value your point of view! I've never really felt much of a hankering to watch "Critical Role," so I can't say much about it. The concept of a "Professional DM" is totally beyond me. The idea of playing online is about the same.... I'm too old fashioned I suppose. I hope your game works out for the best and I hope you get a lot of interest! 😊
I was never a Critical Roll fan either.
I've only been on dnd for a years and both in-person and online... And I have to agree. In-person is sooo much better and more fun
Also what is your ProDM service provides that anyone can't find /do for themselves exactly? Like why not game dev/write content instead?
I offer a DM with theatrical training, professional experience in live theater and writing, and a 45 year history DMing. Believe it or not, awesome DMs like me don't grow on trees.
As to why I am doing this rather than a potentially more lucrative content creation project?
Because this isn't just about the money, and DMing is what gives me joy.
The DM tells the story idea came from the Dragonlance type TSR modules I think. Back when TSR started publishing all those novels. Suddenly they started telling players what's going on in the campaign worlds.
I enjoyed the books, but I really didn't like the official modules. That's one of the reasons. Another, of course, was the fact that in an attempt to keep the canon from the books intact, the modules were basically railroads. I find that ridiculously boring.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 I actually have several problems with the dragon lance setting, just on a philosophical level, starting with that knights, if they are going to live, aren't honorable to the point of being stupid. There were too many Victorian era stereotypes about knights and knighthood that Weiss and Hickman doubled down on that I found problematic even as a kid in the 80s. A knight on Bosworth field was less encumbered than a dough-boy going over the top in World War I, just for instance. And the more I've learned, and studied the more problematic it becomes. That, and having draconic gods (which is cool) who are too heavily anthropomorphized and overly concerned about human level ethics that don't seem like it would register to a dragon as being remotely important. (not so cool and lacking imagination) It always struck me as a campaign world of low hanging fruit that relied on wide spread, bad information.
On your point of DM's not being story tellers, I couldn't agree more. When I sit down to write my own original fiction, I have a completely different set of priorities than when I'm working on my game. Writing original fiction is harder. I'm concerned with things like character development, dialogue, developing inner character voices and keeping those distinct, in and out of dialogue, what is important enough to show in scene and the rare times where giving a bit of exposition is actually the right choice. In storytelling, you're responsible for everyone in the cast, their individual reactions and emotions, and hopefully making the reader care enough to suspend their life for a little while to be entertained by what you've managed to scribble down on the page for them.
When I'm Gming, I see myself very much more like a conflict engineer. There is some cross over, like for instance, you're responsible for scene and setting, the overall mood and tone of the campaign world you've designed, and you're responsible for a vast cast of NPC---none of whom are main characters, however. That's for the players, and their decisions need to have logical consequences within the context of the game. That's where my spotlight is. So whether it's combat or a role playing situation or a conflict that can be either one, you design the encounter, the players are the ones who determine what they do and how they overcome that particular conflict. It can be a trap or a puzzle. It can be someone they need to outwit. So I design the conflicts--my players do their protagonist work and protag, and then the dice also get a vote, which is what makes it a game. Sometimes there is no planning for what the dice do. You can plan for probabilities--but you can't plan for a string of bad luck. Then you just get to roll a new character. The story that emerges from this is a collaborative one--that's what makes it so magical.
I wouldn't mind joining one of your games but I run 4 online games now and one real life game. I am also an Old Grognard, been running games for 50 years. I've had offers to run games for money but just never could feel right about it. I used to use Roll20 before they went woke, and found Fantasy Grounds too restrictive, now I use Foundry VTT and it works for me because of ease of use. I know your game runs on a Saturday I think which I could do as all my games are run during the week. I would really love to actually play with someone who has been playing as long as myself.
My wife is dealing with some health issues right now, so it might be a while, but I will be running some more games in the future.
4:40 If you mean Crital Roll ad a very few others then yes... If you Mean the vast majority of shows like Roll4it and what most TTRPG tubers do then no... Even matt Covell made that mistake and his show fell aprt because he wanted it to be like crrital roll and not like everyone else's "Let's play D&D and you can watch if you want." But when he changed to what every one else did hs show worked. So yeah most people making ROPG shows just want to monetize their game they they were going to play the same way regardless.
I've played games of d&d that do play like streams of d&d, I do know that it's rarer, but it has happened. Those people you referenced may possibly be expert performers, and yes, they *definitely* avoid more boring things other people may try to do in a campaign because they know hundreds to thousands of people aren't watching them play, but, claiming it's not d&d is just functionally NOT true. It may not be like any game you are accustomed to running, or a little boring and dry for your taste, but that doesn't make it lesser in anyway. There are some commercialized streams, sure, but, to claim them all in this way you also rope yourself into this.
I can play any game online, and regardless of whether it's broadcasted as a show or not, I'm still playing that game whether or not I'm presenting as an entertainer or not. It doesn't magically become something else, that's just dismissive. I don't believe your game of d&d, or anyone's, is lessened because of it's broadcasted format, I mean, it wouldn't even be able to be criticized if it weren't recorded in the first place. If you were to record a game of D&D you ran, I wouldn't call you any less of a d&d player just because it was broadcasted. I also wouldn't bully you and say that you were a (fake gamer). That would be rude and dismissive and doesn't further any discussion of how to play the game we've all been playing, and what people do at their own houses or to maximize their own fun.
Depending on the game, or group, you are playing/playing with, you 100% ARE a story teller, I mean, you are literally playing make-believe with rules, that's what d&d is and was made to facilitate because people wanted their special unit's in chainmail to have stories and go on adventures. It's set in a world of your(DM's) own making and saying that you're not telling a story, when you are the one putting the obstacles in front of the player, is just silly and dismissive of the action or inaction you may may have to take while adjudicating the game. The story at your table may not be a good story, it could also possibly be the next hottest narrative in the world, or, it may be entirely non-sequitur events that don't mean literally anything in the grand cosmic scheme.... Yet still, a story developed at the table.
Every session is a story. It will be remembered, and, possibly talked about in which then the story of that session is passed on.
As the DM you are the referee of a bunch of adventures and literally adjudicate how their life develops and what is put in front of them. Some people do prefer pure random sandboxes with self created narratives and goals, which is awesome for them and personally I wish I knew those players. But out of most people I have played with they want a plot to hook them in, or something to make sense of what is happening and to propel their character forward in a direction. They want a reason to adventure, and ultimately the DM, either intentionally or not, will put things in the world that should ideally motivate them to do just that, and if they aren't having fun they will leave. There is an argument to say that the onus of a characters motivation is ultimately up to the player and what they want to do, and, that I do agree that no player should be spoon-fed an adventure or railroaded by a long-winded GM or that any person at the table should treat another rudely because they do not measure up to the fictional scenario they conjured in their head.
But that is an entirely separate problem about player-gm expectation, not about being a storyteller. That is about people being abusive to others and treating the time they put into the hobby as a right, not a privilege. I believe that both Player and DM are allotted the privilege of having each other at the same table, not that either deserve anything from one another, they are there in mutual trust to play and enjoy the time that is the game.
Of course you shouldn't break your back for any toxic players, but, blaming professional improv artists who are very comfortable with each other and silver tongued for being good at their job is detrimental to the hobby and subtracts from what you're really trying to say, which is that a player should not walk up to a table and expect the DM to cater to everything they are saying 100% of the time with little to no buy-in on their part. That of course is true, entitlement should have no place in the ttrpg hobby. However if I played with a DM for a long time and they never let me make any characters I ever wanted, ever, or never talked with me in a conversation on if I was enjoying the game or not or even showed any signs they cared I was there I'd just explain everything, and if no solution could be reached, I'd finish up the games I am currently playing if still able and take my leave and get a new GM to play with.
It is my personal opinion that as a DM if you don't care about your players having fun that's not cool, it doesn't mean you have to break your back for them, or avoid writing consequences or harrowing scenarios in game for them, but not caring at all if they have fun at all makes that person the exact same as the player who wants the DM to 100% cater to them. When you demand compliance over conversation, you are the one expecting 100% catering to your whims. It is a game, not a book, so it can be changed or modified for the group to have fun, that doesn't mean it has to be done reflexively because people are having a fit, but out of reasonable discussion that should occur if there is genuine problem at the table.
The skill ceiling on being a DM or what even is tabletop content is ever-rising and ever-changing as the hobby expands, it doesn't mean people don't enjoy the way the game has been ran any less, just that, newer people are drawn in by how the game can be ran *differently*. I am SURE there are people who want to play the game they have been playing, or that they have heard of the generations past playing before them just as chess is still played today, because it is what they like. People should do what they like, and we should try to lift people up, not push them down.
With that said, I hope that you and your table find great success, and I wish you luck in that many fun adventures and stories are had with your group.
P.S. Chess is actually on the rise again and is becoming an issue in schools (2023) as many people are playing chess instead of doing work. Just goes to show that if something is good, it WILL stand the test of time and will come back eventually.
By defult, I will try to latch onto plothooks and adventure hooks, out of respect for the GM, unless my character has a specific reason not to.
(Maybe they don't trust the NPC or don't agree with what they are being asked to do, or the party's plate is allready full with other quests or the quest seems beyond their pay grade.)
That's very much a "nuDnD" attitude that I strongly discourage at my table. I sincerely want my players to follow their own path. I can always recycle prep work for future use if it comes to that.
Ya I don’t watch live stream games, I’ld rather play.
I hope your get your game going and make a little cash.
Thanks, Myke. I expect it will take a little time to get the business rolling, but I have often been heard to boast that patience is one of my few remaining virtues.
I've played with a lot of professional DMs, and from my experience, their lack of talent and effort is a much bigger problem than pandering to players. I don't see players insisting on running rainbow-colored goblins wearing tutus, but I do see plenty of professional DMs not even attempting to use different voices for different NPCs. DMs that don't charge money are usually better at every facet of DMing, perhaps because they're DMing because they want to instead of running a business. I have, however, seen tons of problematic players who make campaigns a creepy or painful experience, which probably drives away plenty of good DMs.
I'm not sure you and I would see eye to eye on what makes a good DM. From where I sit, on the list of qualities that make for a good DM, "using different voices for different NPCs" is pretty close to dead last on the list. But hey, everyone is entitled to their own preferences.
I've never played with a professional DM and likely won't start now (sorry GOG), but in my experience bad players and bad DMS can both come from the woodwork, and ALSO as a reaction to bad DMs and bad players (respectively). Kind of a cycle of suck, because everyone is too polite to say "Hold up, wait a minute, you're being a prick."
Funny voices is frosting, it's not the cake. DMing is actually about building a believable world that reacts objectively to the party's actions, with no ill intent or favoritism to any given action. Logical consequences (good and bad) from the actions the party takes, and a considerable measure of consistency. Pandering objectively makes a game less fun unless your players have very low self-esteem and enjoy empty flattery and unearned success, and GM sadism objectively makes a game less fun unless your players are masochistic and therefore enjoy wallowing in misery. This is obvious enough that I feel silly talking about it.
There's a defined difference between WotC and TSR D&D, and that is understanding this philosophy and the nature of the rules from the player's mindset. The easiest way I can explain it is that in TSR D&D the players understand that the DM is the judge and jury of outcomes while the rules are merely the letter of the law, whereas in WotC D&D the players believe the DM is really the prosecution and defense attorneys pleading their case to the ruleset, which is judge, jury, and letter of law. Nothing has changed but specifically the players expectations of the relationship between DMs and the rulebook.
As such when it comes to TSR you can more easily tell if a DM is a dick or not. They show you who they really are through rulings. It's not quite that easy with WotC D&D as there's oceans of text to hide DM motivations behind. That and the demotion per the above analogy is why I simply think all 5E DMs are either bad DMs playing the game to obscure that fact, DMs ignorant of better alternatives, or completely miserable DMs who don't understand no gaming is better than bad gaming. This is also why there is a shortage of 5E DMs.
Bad players are much easier to spot in every milieu and other than the bizarre support these players have gotten in the form of X cards lately, easier to root out and eject. Unless they are paying you. Which is why I personally will never be a professional DM. I would definitely want to eject all bad players, and would definitely keep their money as an asshole tax, but worry people would say I was trying to take advantage of the position and get a bad rap for it. My inability to reconcile this and the idea that potentially my enjoyment of the game would fade as it became a job make the prospect of DM-for-hire terrifying.
That brought a tear to my eye.
Now I must confess my sins. I DMed a 5E campaign for more than 2 years. It wasn't a waste. I struggled with it a bit, but my friends had a great time. And... It put me in a great position to be able to explain authoritatively why AD&D is so much better than the relentlessly mediocre games that WotC has been publishing. I even made a video describing the difference in painful detail:
ruclips.net/video/QBYIc43ZmRk/видео.html
I have certainly considered the difficulties associated with dealing with the safe-space generation, and I think I have come up with a trigger list that should scare off pretty much anyone who "needs" an x-card. My campaign is NOT a safe space, which is why I don't welcome kids into them.
On a pragmatic level, I've decided I will not be ejecting anyone mid game unless they do actually do something abusive, but I reserve the right to uninvite people who I don't think are good for the group. I don't need your money badly enough to suffer your presence if I think you're an asshole, or even if I just think you're a disruptive influence on the table.
Oh bravo!
***Bows***
I don't like critical roll because I hate the characters that Matthew's players make.
The very idea of a "professional" GM is antithetical to this being a game.
I'm not sure that particular argument holds a great deal of water. Many games have professional players. As a rule, in a capitalist society, people who excel at a craft are expected to profit by it. Before casting professional sports aside, consider... Are bowling and pool actual sports? Golf? "Esports" sure as hell aren't, but they are very much professional games. There are professional chess leagues. Poker. Cribbage. Bridge. Many more.
I would estimate we're about the same age, with you having about 5 more years of gaming experience than I do. The point I'm making is that it's a pastime. The professional sports analogy breaks down when you think about it. It's not a sport, you're providing a 'service' to your group. If it's a sports team at all, is it an after work softball team hiring a ringer? "
The sports your talking about are monetized by viewers and sponsors and everyone gets paid. So, again the sports analogy breaks down. As a player and a gm, I believe the fun in role playing is the interaction between people. The moment that 'fun' becomes transactional, it's no longer fun. Do you intend to give refunds to people who feel that your services weren't adequate for the game they paid for?
And, of course, you have the right to believe whatever you like. But you don't have the authority to dictate what is a "game" and what is a "passtime." Neither is it your place to dictate what is and is not acceptable behavior when indulging either. The free market dictates the value of services, not arbitrary pseudo-moral declarations.
There are a lot of legitimate reasons to object to professional TTRPGing (reminder that there are professional players, too). I just don't think "but it's wrong to charge for a passtime" is one of them.
I don't see where I 'dictated' anything. Of course this is all my opinion, as yours are yours.
I think telling people that a dm doesn't tell stories is hurtful to the game. When someone opens a door to the dragons hoard someone has to say theirs a dragons hoard their, Even if all you say is theirs a dragon hoard or if you describe it as a shimmering pile of gold and ruby's. The whole thing that makes it a Collaborative Role playing game is the fact that everyone is doing their part in adding to the story. Some Dm's and players take this overboard and spend to much time describing something or taking to much of the spotlight away from other party members.
Yeah that is a very Early D&D the wargame with a side to roleplay thing to say... TTRPGs are today and has always been billed as Coopertive games where you sit down with rules and play a regulated game of pretend with your friends where you make a story together... As opposed to a wargame where it kinda just happens a TTRPG story comes from the choices player including the GM make in regardes to the story.
To be clear... What you just described is NOT storytelling. Storytelling is about plot. It is very much the DM's job to provide those kinds of setting details. It's the players' job to drive the plot (IE... Decide what to DO with that treasure).
DM's are story tellers just like players. The DM's part of the story is the big picture part of the story, and the players are telling the details part of the story.
Nice story broo.
@@mooseymoose not as nice as the middle earth story though.
I disagree strongly. The moment you start storytelling you are stripping the players of their achievements in-game. Whether consciously or not, your choices will reflect your desire for the direction of the campaign. While sometimes a DM has no choice but to make directive choices for the plot, those times are very few and far between. The DM can almost ALWAYS inject some element of random determination in almost every in-game encounter, setting, and event. Let the dice make the choices. Let the victory, or defeat, belong to the players. If they think you are "going easy on them" or "letting them win" their achievements will feel empty.
@@grumpyoldgrognard9561 Its not one-sided it's a symbiotic relationship, the DM creates the world and the stories for everything in it, the players then explore that world using cooperative play and dice rolls to fill in the details of the larger story on a micro level. More simply put the GMs story is on a macro level and the players are on a micro level. It's not one or the other, the players play cooperatively with each other, and the DM is playing cooperatively with the players exploring his creation.
@@charlesvincent4127 I don't storytell on either level. At least, I avoid it as much as humanly possible. I allow the "macro" story to unfold according to a series of random events and encounters. Yes... I create the tables to dictate these events... But over time, these tables have evolved to the point that pretty much anything can happen any time, from humanoid incursions, to bandit raids, to seasonal weather events, to all out War. Even minor events like local weddings, feuds, street fights, and house fires may occur, which can radically influence the social, political, and/or economic climate of the local area.
18:01 What if your players just want iit all done in narrative time? Like that big advture I did was 90% narrative aka not bringing out the fixed turns.... And very little combat because that is exacttlyy what the players who were all GMs and 1 came form the beginning of D&D wanted... And it was a great adanture that was nothing but player choice through out.
If you manage to get seven players at the table and every single one of them want exactly the same game experience, by all means... do it to it.
Yeah this video is less why Profesnal DMs suck and more about why Storyteller DMs suck.
Youve left not less than FIVE comments on this video. Don't you think it might be a good idea to actually watch the whole thing before formulating an opinion on it?