Samyang AF 85mm II f1.4 FE - WHAT is going on?

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  • Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 142

  • @Ansonandco
    @Ansonandco 2 года назад +8

    Look how far Rokinon has come! I may have to start considering them again

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +2

      they are doing very well right now

    • @Harvester88
      @Harvester88 2 года назад +2

      I have a 35 1.8 from them and enjoy it.

  • @frankfeng2701
    @frankfeng2701 2 года назад +6

    The focus breathing control on these newer Samyang lenses is excellent. Hope AF won't be a deal breaker.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +3

      focus breathing is strongly visible with this lens (and other new Samyangs) and AF is very good

  • @namthainam
    @namthainam 2 года назад +7

    I think your bokeh is affected by the e-Front Curtain Shutter in some of your photos. You can tell because the bokeh balls are half moon shaped facing down. You can resolve this by disabling e-Front Curtain when you shoot in high shutter speeds.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +2

      thanks fir that info

  • @AashutoshSahu
    @AashutoshSahu 2 года назад +2

    Hey, Pav! I saw your viral video titled (Why Lumix S5 is my number ONE camera in 2022) which has 42K views. I liked this video a lot, after that I watched a lot of your videos and I think your video is addictive.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      Thank you very much! You're the best!

    • @AashutoshSahu
      @AashutoshSahu 2 года назад

      You are very talented in your profession, but I'm sad because you are not getting the praise you deserve, I can see your talent. But why can't people see🙃

  • @Reviews4fun1
    @Reviews4fun1 2 года назад +2

    Always enjoy your videos, Pav. Been enjoying my Sigma 24-70 Art.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      Great to hear! Thank you so much!

  • @wildnaeg6
    @wildnaeg6 Год назад +2

    Hello Pav. Do you think they fix the problems with the 85 and others by now was thinking of buying buy cannot find any reviews that they fix it already 😉 thanks in advance and keep making lens reviews it help a lot 🤜🏼🤛🏼

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад +2

      I just got the latest version and I will be comparing it side by side with Sigma 85mm in a video at the end of January

  • @JoATTech
    @JoATTech 2 года назад +4

    Haven't got problems with 135mm with firmware version .3 ... before it was freezing my A7IV once a day.
    Sigma seems to be the GOAT for 85mm on Sony E.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      I had no problems with 135mm at all - don't know which version it was

    • @JoATTech
      @JoATTech 2 года назад

      @@PavSZ Which camera body?
      Worked fine with A6600, but on A7IV it was at least 1 hang up a day ...

  • @d.u_
    @d.u_ 2 года назад +1

    I've got the first generation of this 85 and absolutely love it, think it's worth the upgrade to the mk II?

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      I wouldn't if you love yours

  • @DrWasim
    @DrWasim 2 года назад +1

    Once again an outstanding review! And again the same question from me: When will you be selling your Lightroom presets? I just love your photography style!!!

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      thank you!! very, very soon! working on it

  • @stuffnuns
    @stuffnuns Год назад +1

    I have the Samyang’s small 45mm f/1.8 & 24mm f/2.8, and I’ve had zero problems with those lenses. They work perfectly with Sony’s focusing system. I am definitely thinking about an af 85mm, and f/1.4? mmm, that would be a lotta bokeh.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      yes, they do work.
      I have replaced this lens since and I had no issues with it whatsoever

  • @williambolton5679
    @williambolton5679 2 года назад +2

    A comparison with the Rokinon (Samyang) manual focus 85mm f1.4 would be appreciated. It sells for perhaps half the price of the lens you reviewed. Is the optical quality any different? I have the manual focus lens and a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 85mm f1.8. I generally prefer to manually focus my lenses and use aperture priority when shooting, so AF is not a big selling point for me. Also, 85mm is not a focal length I have ever warmed up to (personal preference), so I would say I'm good with what I have.

  • @namthainam
    @namthainam 2 года назад +1

    e-Front Curtain Shutter with high shutter speed results in bokeh that are gradient darkening toward the bottom of bokeh balls! Disable e-Front Curtain or enable Silent Shooting to fix this issue.
    This is the case for all lenses!

  • @hunterxhunter6957
    @hunterxhunter6957 2 года назад +1

    I have both the 1.4 fe & the new ones i hve no complain on out the lens

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      cool! I like their lenses

  • @charruaporelmundo
    @charruaporelmundo 2 года назад +5

    Samyang use us as a tester, once people begin to report issues they release firmware’s updates. I’m hapoy with my 135 but I returned the 50 mk ii, no sharp at 1.4 🤷🏻‍♂️, will try this one

    • @Jitolism
      @Jitolism 2 года назад +2

      My Samyang 135 1.8 caused my a7iv to freeze few times 😭

    • @charruaporelmundo
      @charruaporelmundo 2 года назад +2

      @@Jitolism Mine too, but do not sell it. Buy the dock base, do update it, and it will be gone. I already have had a dock base so knowing Samyang use as as their " rat labs" I just wait for the release of the firmware (V3)

    • @charruaporelmundo
      @charruaporelmundo 2 года назад +1

      @@Jitolism I sold the 50 Mk ii because it wasn't sharp at 1.4, only at f2 it was. and Sharpness does not get fix with firmwares ....

    • @Jitolism
      @Jitolism 2 года назад +1

      @@charruaporelmundo Thank you for the advice! Will get the lens and update the firmware asap :)

    • @michaelbell75
      @michaelbell75 2 года назад +1

      None of their 1.4 lenses are sharp wide open. Ive owned them all. They need to be stopped down to at least f/2 or more, which totally defeats the purpose of owning a 1.4 lens

  • @misahorna
    @misahorna 7 месяцев назад +1

    I just got this lens used and I need to update a firmware because lens drained a battery of my a7III after only 4 shoots, it was charged 30%. How can I do a firmware update without a lens station, can anyone help me, please? Is it even possible? I can't find anything on internet about it. Only firmware update using a lens station is described everywhere on the net. Thanks 🙏🏼👍🏼

  • @rnoirs
    @rnoirs 2 года назад

    Would you consider doing a review on 7artisans’ 12mm? I’d really like to know your thoughts.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      I'm not planning on reviewing any 7Artisans APS-C lenses right now - sorry

  • @premchettri7170
    @premchettri7170 Год назад +2

    This lens is perhaps the best of the lens in my bag full of L and Macros lens.. From build quality to AF to sharpness, it is too good for the price they are selling these .. I am waitin for the 35 mm AF for EF mount but seems like they are going after mirrorless ones these days

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      hang on .... are you on Canon? This lens is only available for Sony-E cameras

  • @Berna75
    @Berna75 2 года назад +9

    Hey there Pav! Great video as always!! Now that Samyang is starting to have a considerable amount of lenses for E-mount with autofocus, It's starting to sound like a good option to make a kit of lenses with, but something that still makes me hesitant to give them a chance is the color accuracy and matching capabilities of all the lenses between themselves. Can I switch from the 35mm to the 85mm with no color changes and is it a viable alternative to buying an all Sigma or all Sony prime kit. If you could maybe do a video comparing all of them to themselves it would be great! Thank you!!

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +3

      I have never ever noticed or be concerned about the colour differences between the lenses. I only shoot RAW and everything can be adjusted or corrected in post

    • @Berna75
      @Berna75 2 года назад +3

      @@PavSZ Oh yeah I forgot to mention, I mainly shoot video, either fictional or documental work, and this is a concern for me when doing a wide and a close-up of someone, for exemple. Yes I can always correct it in post, but it's always better when the glass properties matches between lenses.

    • @LeeAxonisDigifin
      @LeeAxonisDigifin 2 года назад +2

      @@Berna75 I agree with your points. I have the version 1 and while I love it to bits I find it always looks a litttttttle bit green when I shoot photos or video. I shoot with A74 and A7s3. I shoot with Tamron 1.4 35mm Version 2 and the SamYang 1.4 85mm Version 1 and also swap lenses onto the other camera. The 85 ALWAYS looks 'off' and I have trouble matching the look exactly. It really pi$$es me off tbh. @Pav SZ i have bought lenses from your recommendations but what I feel was missing in this particular video was reason why the V2 is different from the V1. Keep up the great work.

    • @Gelgas
      @Gelgas 2 года назад +2

      Yes agree, 85mm f1.4 v1 FE is too orange

    • @LeeAxonisDigifin
      @LeeAxonisDigifin 2 года назад

      @@Gelgas I've just arranged to buy the Sigma Updated Version tomorrow and I'm trading in the SamYang V1. It's so nice to use but just has me on edge when I use it with the 2nd camera. I don't want to have the trouble of changing in post to much, I want the glass to do the work. The Sigma also reviewed on this channel seems to be amazing so I'm looking forward to it.

  • @johndypot
    @johndypot Год назад +1

    Hello! Is that for canon r series too?

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      I think it is Sony-E only

    • @johndypot
      @johndypot Год назад

      @@PavSZ aww. How about the old one sir?

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      @@johndypot I don't think Canon allows third party manufacturers to make lenses for R series cameras yet

  • @jaipalreddy4894
    @jaipalreddy4894 11 месяцев назад

    Thanks. As you suggested me to watch this video, I watched it but I couldn't come to a conclusion about focus accuracy on fast moving subjects !! I am not person who makes money on photography and can only afford one 85mm prime lens , can you please suggest ? In India, in this price range we have only two lenses "Sony 85 1.8" and this "Samyang 85 1.4 mark2".

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  11 месяцев назад

      if you are not a professional sports photographer, both of these lenses will be OK.
      Sony has got AF issues too but it is lighter than Samyang

    • @jaipalreddy4894
      @jaipalreddy4894 11 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks :) @@PavSZ

  • @anulearntech
    @anulearntech 2 года назад +1

    the bokeh at medium range do show the same amount business. I'm not sure how much of this can be mitigated by disabling electronic first curtain shutter at the affected shutter speeds.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      only slightly smoother with e-curtain off

  • @mindbentmedia
    @mindbentmedia Год назад

    I bought a 35mm 1.4 and I experience the exact same thing! I have to remove the battery but I turn the camera off and it stays on! I thought I was going crazy! I now know I need to buy another lens to test my camera because the A7IV is brand new as well.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      it's a shame that this is happening - very good lenses otherwise

  • @AbhijitBoro
    @AbhijitBoro 2 года назад +2

    Sir, Could You Please Upload A Review On Samyang AF 24/1.8 Lens....?

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      sorry but I am not planning reviewing it any time soon

    • @Stasiek_Zabojca
      @Stasiek_Zabojca 2 года назад

      There are plenty reviews of that lens already 🤷🏻‍♂

  • @pknagavlogs5560
    @pknagavlogs5560 5 месяцев назад +1

    Can it be suitable with sony a73 ???

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  5 месяцев назад

      absolutely

  • @9adriano21
    @9adriano21 2 года назад +1

    Still waiting on a E mount 1.4 Sigma Contemporary

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      it's unlikely that it will ever be available. You have 90mm f2

  • @Image1Nation
    @Image1Nation 2 года назад +2

    Compare this to the Sigma DG DN. The current 85 king on the Sony system.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +5

      as I said in my video. I will be doing that comparison video very soon

    • @AbhyudayaRanglani
      @AbhyudayaRanglani Год назад

      @@PavSZ Not sure if you've had a chance to work on this comparison yet - do you plan to upload this video anytime soon?

  • @GoodyMorillas
    @GoodyMorillas 2 года назад +1

    Does it have the warmer colors like the mk 1? I have the mk 1 and sometimes I like the warmer colors I get but sometimes it's just way too much that I need to edit in post.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      I can't say that I have noticed - I only shoot RAW so it is a little bit irrelevant

  • @andy_deja_jr
    @andy_deja_jr 2 года назад

    Hi Pav. I have two - AF 50mm f1.4 FE II and AF 135mm f1.8. Look of the pictures from the 135mm is terrific. But 50mm....hmmmm. I had to set AF to +1 so that the pictures are sharp. Despite my love for 50mm (in general) the pictures are not WOW. What am I doing wrong? Greetings from Mainz, Germany. P.s.: sorry for my English….

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      I have reviewed 50mm mkII lens here: ruclips.net/video/-VgclOLGP9s/видео.html
      I had zero auto focusing issues with it on Sony a7IV

    • @sammyh9542
      @sammyh9542 Год назад +1

      What do you mean by setting AF to +1

    • @andy_deja_jr
      @andy_deja_jr Год назад

      @@sammyh9542 in the app from Samyang. You need lens station too 😉

    • @sammyh9542
      @sammyh9542 Год назад +1

      @@andy_deja_jr thanks

  • @pushpikasunimal
    @pushpikasunimal 2 года назад +1

    can you change focal length ?>

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      you can't do that on prime lenses like this, only zooms

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      no, it's not a zoom lens. 85mm and that's it

  • @MarioCastillion
    @MarioCastillion 2 года назад +1

    You are not shooting with the Lumix S5 anymore?
    Whhhyyyyy?!?!?! 😪😪😪😪😪

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      I absolutely do, not with this lens though.
      I review lenses from different brands on my channel. I have several different cameras

    • @MarioCastillion
      @MarioCastillion 2 года назад +1

      @@PavSZ ahaaaaa....I was about to cry, because you are one of the best reviewers in here.
      You inspired me to save up for the S5.
      Thanks a million.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      @@MarioCastillion check out my previous video. I am holding my S5 in my hand all the way through it. Love that camera

  • @Donbros
    @Donbros 2 года назад

    Tbh these things happen with some production models too. Especially that wonky aperture and live preview thing. Samyang qc is just isn't on the level of other lenses thus ita cheaper. So buy from reputable seller with great warranty and return temrs

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      I hear a lot of reports of that

  • @SebastianBarbuartfilmsro
    @SebastianBarbuartfilmsro 2 года назад

    Like your t-shirt...

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      Thanks!

  • @Rafael-is5us
    @Rafael-is5us 2 года назад

    I was going to buy the Samyang 135mm until watched your video on the lens. It made the same plastic on plastic noise as the this 85mm. I ended up canceling my order. I also don't like that you have buy a dock for updates.

    • @mysticandroid57
      @mysticandroid57 2 года назад

      What dock? What is it called?

    • @Rafael-is5us
      @Rafael-is5us 2 года назад

      @@mysticandroid57 Samyang/Rokinon Lens Station for Sony E mount

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      I do mention (and show the photo) of the dock in my video

    • @mysticandroid57
      @mysticandroid57 2 года назад

      @@PavSZ thank you for a great video! Got all the info I needed!!

  • @shamima98b
    @shamima98b 2 года назад +1

    Plz, Provide RAW File with us

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      I have no means of storing them permanently right now. Sorry

  • @CamperIV
    @CamperIV 2 года назад +1

    Yea I agree it's a good lens but the Sony 85 1.4 will forever have one of the most pleasing smooth bokeh among the 85 lenses, plus it has beautifully shaped bokeh balls and just the overall colors... Pricey yes, but if you love 85mm focal length in my opinion it is the way to go, no compromises.

  • @ianscottcastillo7709
    @ianscottcastillo7709 2 года назад

    Hello brother. I need help. So basically I was changing lenses and a little bit of spit got on my shutter that was covering the sensor on my A7IV, It evaporated but left a dark little smudge i can still see on the shutter. Images still come out fine. Is there a way to safely, properfly clean the shutter? Thank you .

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      oh no. I don't think you should be touching the shutter to clean it. The shutter only exposes the sensor at different speeds, if it didn't get physically damaged and it is only a cosmetic, I wouldn't worry about it

  • @simracer1256
    @simracer1256 2 года назад +1

    I love your accent! I'm not sure your native language, but it's marvelous how you speak like a northerner from the north of England! It goes to show how we are all one people regardless of our nationality

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      HaHa! thanks! I was born in Poland, lived most of my life in ..... North-West if England

  • @Mr13allin
    @Mr13allin 2 года назад +1

    Just ordered a mk. 1 😫

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      oh nooo

    • @Mr13allin
      @Mr13allin 2 года назад

      @@PavSZ played myself. Literally just finished a shoot with the mk. 1 and I’m not terribly upset. It still works great.

  • @3rebornxd
    @3rebornxd 2 года назад

    Do you think this lens was released in anticipation of the rumored Sony 85mm 1.2? I have tried third-party lenses before; Sigma and Tamron are the only ones I trust for my Sony full frames.. I'm in need of an 85mm to complete my set, so I'm gonna wait for the Sony version. Great video, as always!!

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      I don't think these brands do anything because of anything Sony rumoured - it's a decent lens and hopefully the issues I had with the pre-production copy won't be there when it is shipping

  • @frankluo230
    @frankluo230 2 года назад +1

    I think Samyang have some good lenses but most of time it is just too unpredictable. I wouldn't bring it to a paid shoot.

    • @LMActionsports
      @LMActionsports 2 года назад +1

      I used the Samyang 35 & 85 f1.4 on both my a7riv and a9 for all my weddings and I never had one issue. I love them and took some beautiful photos. Only issue is if you are using single pout focus the very outer edge of the sensor all the way around it hunts for focus. But if you go in one row from the outer edge of your sensor it focuses perfectly. I don’t know if I got lucky with my two lenses but I never had any problems with any focusing using eye autofocus or focus tracking. I actually bought the Sony 85mm GM and thought it was loud and slow compared to the Samyang 85. The Sony 85 was a hair sharper but not worth $1000 more so I sent it back. I think if you get lucky and get a good copy you’ll be fine.

    • @RichardWeiSG
      @RichardWeiSG 2 года назад +1

      @@LMActionsports i had good expeeience with my samyang 85 1.4 ef af as well

    • @frankluo230
      @frankluo230 2 года назад +1

      @@LMActionsports the huge vignette on 85f1.4 @f1.4 is almost tricky for camera's auto exposure depending on where you AE and AF. So if you don't lock AE and use track focus, as model walks past different area of the frame, the exposure of background changes about 2ev. Nothing can't be fixed but enough to annoy me.

  • @gitithadani
    @gitithadani 2 года назад +2

    I have the cine MF version of the lens. It seems to have a creamier bokeh then this lens which reminds me of the russian lenses like Jupiter 9 but much sharper. I am not sure how much the optics is improved or not in the transition to AF. The mechanics of their cine MF lenses is a joy to use & their is a substantial price difference. Personally where they really have innovated is with their f1.8 tiny series. I have the 45 & tried out the 24 & 75 with no issues. It would be interesting to see thee comparison with the sigma and perhaps also their earlier MF lenses

    • @Stasiek_Zabojca
      @Stasiek_Zabojca 2 года назад +1

      I don't think you can call it "different version of the same lens". Looks like completely different lens.

    • @gitithadani
      @gitithadani 2 года назад

      @@Stasiek_Zabojca the cine lens is a much older design made for dslr whereas this lens is made for mirrorless & AF. So certainly another lens. However my main point was in terms of how much the optical quality has changed through this transition.

    • @JamieSandel
      @JamieSandel 2 года назад

      That cine t/1.5 lens is a real gem. Unbelievable IQ for a $200 lens

    • @gitithadani
      @gitithadani 2 года назад

      @@JamieSandel Absolutely

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      The cine 85mm lens is completely different lens optically and design to this. This is a auto focusing, photography lens for mirrorless cameras

  • @gamingwithstand6886
    @gamingwithstand6886 Год назад +1

    It's a nice lens but the coating is not the best when writing with backlight. When you need to take wedding photos better coating now is a must.
    I do like lens flare and haze when you want more of a artist look. So I can see people buying two different copies of the same lens. One lens made perfect and one lens with character.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  Год назад

      interesting. The quality control is not their strongest virtue.
      I have my second copy to compare it to the Sigma 85mm side by side soon

  • @E.S.87
    @E.S.87 2 года назад +1

    again a lens with AF inconsistence ? thats Samyangs special ^^

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      there is no AF inconsistence - this lens has got no problem focusing

  • @jonoy4375
    @jonoy4375 2 года назад +2

    Looks the sharpness and contrast are not as good as Sigma 85 DG DN, but distortion is better than Sigma.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      they are not but they can be tweaked in post to match very closely

  • @michaelbell75
    @michaelbell75 2 года назад +1

    Thanks. I have owned pretty much every Samyang prime for Sony. All the f/1.8s, all three 1.4s and even the 24 f/2.8 They are all good, not great and every 1.4 had focus issues. Now they are raising their prices on the 1.4 mark II lenses? Especially after the debacle with their 24-70 falling apart? No thanks. Im done with Samyang. Ive sold my Samyang primes and now own a Sigma 28-70 DG DN which is better than the Samyang lenses in every way. Faster and more accurate focus, better colors, way better bokeh quality and doesnt require a lens station for updates.

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      yeah, a lot of reports about Samyang quality control.
      Sigma 24-70 is a great lens but you still need Sigma dock to update the firmware on it

  • @ondrejbobek.
    @ondrejbobek. 2 года назад +6

    Better examples of bokeh would be with EFCS OFF....

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      with what off?

    • @tykimikk8605
      @tykimikk8605 2 года назад +3

      @@PavSZ electronic front curtain sync. weird thing is efcs ON has like a 1 stop up quality bokeh unlike when it is OFF.

    • @ondrejbobek.
      @ondrejbobek. 2 года назад +1

      @@PavSZ Electronic First Curtain Shutter combined with higher shutter speed cuts bokeh and makes it distracting - it depends on shutter speed (more visible with f1.4 at 1/8000s than at 1/2000s).
      When taking a picture with EFCS - the first curtain is made electronic only and then comes the second curtain (mechanical shutter), which is in front of the sensor - the difference in distance of this shutters makes a "shadow" on the bottom half of the bokeh if they go fast in succession.
      Some manufacturers have automatic shutter switch setting to mechanical at higher shutter speeds, this effect is not so visible under 1/1000s.
      At least Sony and Canon don't have this option yet, i always switch manually to mechanical or silent (A7RIII + GM lenses).
      Edit: You could make a video about this effect with EFCS - i see it often in various tests of brighter lenses and it would be a nice education for portrait and wedding shooters :) It's just about comparison of few bokeh examples at 1/500 and 1/8000s with mechanical shutter and with electronic first curtain shutter (EFCS) side by side..

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад +1

      @@ondrejbobek. yes, thank for that info!
      I am aware of it (I just didn't know the EFCS abbriviation). I might make a video about it in the near future

  • @tykimikk8605
    @tykimikk8605 2 года назад +3

    that bokeh is disappointing :(

    • @PavSZ
      @PavSZ  2 года назад

      it is not for everyone for sure

  • @jaybeckerich
    @jaybeckerich 2 года назад +1

    Companies shouldn’t send out “pre-production” products. Just excuses if it messes up.