I got the Leica M9 because I wanted a camera and not a computer, and you touched upon this in the video. To be honest, I would use any camera brand if it offered the same user experience, it just so happens that Leica are the only manufacturer offering a user experience I find most rewarding. Also, what you quickly realise is you don't need masses of ISO as you would believe and I've been happily shooting the M9 in gig setting and getting great results. I've been posting slideshow videos on my own channel of images captured with the M9 if anyone cares to have a gander.
Great video Matt. Still using the older cameras and producing awesome work!!! Two cameras I wish I hadn't sold, M6 & M9. Beautiful units. Maybe I'll add another M6 one day.
Thanks Paul, If you're UK based you're welcome to contact me for my M6. I rarely use it. (I'm a M3 guy!). Yes I miss the M9 too. I wish they'd re-released it with a fixed sensor.
I bought an old Leica X1 for a bargain price and with the very first test shots outside my house, I thought WOW when I put them on my PC. I've only had it 3 months and out of all the photos I have posted over the years, the Leica shots are the first to attract comments about how clear, sharp, punchy, detailed some of them are. I am only really ever shooting travel photos, but it is amazing how this 2009 cheap camera raises the quality of the image. It doesn't matter that things take longer. The feel of the camera and simple operation, the pleasureable shooting experience and the quality of the image encourage me to go out and take photos.
As someone who works in a camera shop, it is not surprising to hear old cameras being used by professional photographers. In fact, 10 years is probably about average from what I see.
Thanks for the video. I bought my M6 for the reliability, the ergonomics, the image quality, the manufacturing quality, the attractiveness, and the status.
Hi Matt thanks for this video. I am a first time Leica owner. For years I have worked with several brands, starting with canon which i still use to this day, Sony A7 series which I use more for video and recently a Fuji XPro3 which is my personal, everyday, life and travel camera. A few weeks ago I made a significant leap in purchasing my first ever Leica, a Q3. I was and still am amazed by the build quality, image quality, simplicity, weight and feel of this camera. All my other gear except my faithful Canon 1dx all feel plastic and cheap. I purchased the Q3 as my new life camera, to capture special moments, travel and everyday. I will never use it for work. I know this sounds silly, but I am in love with this camera. I have an attachment to it that I want it with me everywhere to document life. I will admit I am a red neck strap Leica photographer, I am proud to show it off and talk about it with other photographers. Thanks for producing the video as it really reinforced why Leica is a brand that has soul and emotional value, their cameras become a part of your life and not a pointless accessory. Cheers. When someone owns an alternate brand camera, they take photos, when someone owns a Leica, they make photos. - my saying :)
What you say is true. It is a well-made and usable camera with great images. They are bling for some but for the rest of us it is a great way to get good photos.
To each his own. Everyone has their favourite. I’ve been on the M since the early 90s (analogue) to present day digital. Love em to bits and I wouldn’t trade it for any other. Take care
Don’t forget Pixii! They also make a digital (APS-C) rangefinder, with quite an innovative approach. Leica still makes the only digital full frame rangefinder though.
Yeah the Pixiii is still in its infancy. I think there goal is to make an affordable full frame range finder but that'll be years or they might even fold if they get to that point
I don't think Pixii gives a rat's asterisk about "full frame" because they realize that the incoming generation of photographers doesn't care about it either... no matter how desperately the RUclips-and-website photo commentariat tries to pour the full-frame Kool-Aid down their throats. These are people who started photography with a phone, discovered they enjoy image-making as a form of expression, and are interested in getting a camera because they want a more involving experience. Pixii's boss is on record as saying one of their design goals was to make a camera that would be "interesting to use," and I suspect that's exactly what a lot of these people are looking for (even if the Pixii itself may be too quirky for most.) I would go so far as to say that a big appeal factor of Leica cameras is that they're also "interesting to use": they're different, not everybody has one, they have a history, it takes some practice to get the most out of one, etc. Probably the reason the CL and TL camera lines didn't last was that they just weren't "interesting" enough to compete with less-expensive rivals that produced equally good or better results.
I agree with a lot of what you have said Matt, myself being a FUJI photographer I only wish FUJI would wake up and produce a pure camera ie no gimmicks no video just an old fashioned camera with the body of say Canon 7 style very much a Leica. I'm sure their are many FUJI owners just waiting for this to happen.
I think it's interesting to note that most digital Leica M users are either journalists or documentary/street photographer, pretty much like back to Leica M film era. On the other side, landscape/studio photographers typically are probably still happy with their Hasselblad system. Different camera for different purpose, I guess
100% is the simplicity of the rangefinder. Because I can get the other stuff with other cameras. If you want a simple full frame digital rangefinder; that’s the only game in town.
The Leica is the best amateur camera as Leitz said in a 1936 German advertisement. And in Wetzlar they still make no mistakes. Today most amateurs want to buy the best or want to show they are the best photographer by walking around with old or new Leicas. But why do so many Leica photographers put a Lada four cilinder in their Mercedes? A Russiam optic on a Leica body? Over the years the Leicas were the cameras for the rich amateurs. They did not like a 6 x 6 camera. Leica was the camera for the managers of the big European photoshops, to show business was going wel. Some reporters and wedding photographers had a Leica. Some reporters prefered a 6 x 6 TLR or a SLR or a 4 x 5 press camera. Leica was hardly seen in hospitals, because colour negatives had to be big. In German hospitals the Linhof Technika ould be found. Why had I a Leica in the late Sixties when I was you? I do not know, probobly to irritate . Not everybody could understand why I had a Hasselblad and a Sinar as well. You must be out of your mind to mount a Leica lens on a Fuji. The guys in Wetzlar will not understand why people use just 50% of the quality of a Leica lens on that small Fuji APS-C sensor. I do not agree the high value of the Leica. Nobody will find a reason to trade or sell his Leica. Which fool will trade his Steinway for a Casio keyboard? On the Leica Feel you are right. For most common digital cameras you must be a halfbreed between an Urang Utang and an Octopus to hold and handle them. Leica Last Longer; sometimes outlasting the professional photographer. It is a pity there are so few professional photographer in 2023, who can afford a Leica. People buying a new Leica should inform themself better on photography. The streetphotographers do not make good photos nowadays. A mister Bladybla with a new digital Leica camera will never become the new HCB, Capa or Sawada. Leica and the world wide Leica Stores should train the new didital Leica owmers by teaching them the Leica quality and vision of the Thirties, Fifties and Sixties. When the Seventies did arrive all went wrong. People had to accept unsharp and grainy photos. The photomagazines became crap, like most of the information on You Tube is. Jjust one single exception, the info brought by Mr. Matt Osborne.
Thanks Jaco, some important points there, thanks (and for the kind words haha). I enjoy using Leica (1), I can see to focus (Big #2), I like the M/LTM lenses (3) and I value that they are build to last (4) ..Love my 1931, My film Ms, the Leicaflex SL (though to big/heavy to use most the time vs smaller options), and digital as mentioned.
I am glad that Bladybals, fools, half-breeds, urang utangs, as well as octopi were invited to the conversation: we had been missing them so far. Now seriously it is time to reach out of the fish bowl hidden in the garden shed (with a lot of other unsharpened tools... to extend the world of this conversation. There is a lot that has to be cleared here, maybe too much. First, why would people "in the past years" look at 6x6 TLR cameras or 4x5 cameras (no such digital equivalents), this may have been said in the 1980s but that was some 40 years ago... two generations' time. "Today most amateurs want to buy the best or want to show they are the best photographer by walking around with old or new Leicas. " Showing to whom??? Was that different in the past? When? Moreover, today more people are able to identify a cell-phone or a laptop from a distance than a Leica. In my view Leica carriers just inform other Leica owners and it is not new. Most people, even half-breeds, fools, octopi and urang-utangs understand, know that the label is not everything, that carrying a book or a pencil does not make you a novelist or a draughtsman/artist. I have screwdrivers and hammers at home I am far from being a handyman even if I carried them around my neck! When was the last time you saw anyone with a Leica M11, or M10 around their neck. Let us not be ridiculous here (agreed, it is fun and there are enough half-breeds, fools, octopi and urang-utangs... we do not need to add to the list ;o). "It is a pity there are so few professional photographer in 2023, who can afford a Leica" Where do your statistics come from? Were there more in the past? How do you know? What do you refer to when you say "professional photographer"? Does every professional photographer, even in your mind, need a Leica? Many don't and a Leica M would be totally inadequate for what they do as professional photographers {may be as much as 6x6 TLRs and 4x5s)? "A mister Bladybla with a new digital Leica camera will never become the new HCB, Capa or Sawada." Why would they want to? They have an advantage over HCB and Capa they can learn from HCB, Capa's works, and many others... and go beyond. Knowledge is power! Why stop at the 70s? Weren't the 80s bad too? Look at the 90s? and now the 2020s? Where are the good old days when we had World Wars, Great Depressions? Autumn Leaves... (Les Feuilles Mortes) ;o)
Hi okay your are right but look at the price of the older Leica M body prices is still very high, that has hurt me a lot. It will take me years to get a M digital camera just to let you know. But you did a good job.
#3 In fact Leica is the only company making full frame digital rangefinder camera. There is Pixii digital range finder ( Leica M mount) and I guess Fuji xpro line ( and x100) is near the experience . Love your videos , Especially the barnack ones !
I’ve owned / I own a few Leica M cameras and all versions of the X-Pro, but the X-Pro is a very different camera compared to Leica Ms. Casually observing, they might look similar, but that’s far from the truth. An X-Pro is actually a regular X-T camera, except for the position of the viewfinder. Don’t think that because it has an OVF, it gives you a rangefinder experience. First, the OVF is a very crippled one, compared to an M viewfinder. Secondly, because the manual focus of an X-Pro is a very poor experience compared to that of an M. Finally, lightmetering in an M (except the M11) is very different than other mirrorless cameras. Most people find an X-Pro rather easy to shoot with and comparable to an X-T body. They usually use it in AF-mode and use the EVF. An M is something different that you really have to get used to, to get the best results.
@@ZippyDChimp-mr1tf thanks for your concern. I fully agree with Matthieu re. the Pixii. However, I just wanted to point out that the X-Pro may look like a rangefinder, but it is not. I’ve seen quite some disappointments in our workshops of people switching either way, thinking it was more of the same.
Can’t really put my finger on it but but after getting myself two Leica sl2s cameras I’m getting nice results for what I’m using them for. I’m working faster with my Canon 1DX mk2 cameras but I’m getting there with my Leica’s.
They are better engineering The lenses have maximum optical performance And sturdier build If you drop some sharp but inferior lenses it could easily knock some element s out of alignment The thing is you may not find another lens But remember with Leica if you do need to send for repair it can be a very costly bill.
I think Oscar Barnack wanted a "Kleinbildkamera" (small image camera) to give results that were as usable as a medium format image is, as best he could. To do that he turned the regular 35mm film format sideways and doubled the frame size. But he also needed lenses that could deal with the small negative and reduce the scene into a 24x36mm frame without losing too much detail. So this is why they (Leica lenses) were made to such a high standard. Of course he didn't achieve medium format quality prints, but they were acceptable up to a certain size. This is just my opinion .
I tried a x100v but took two days to set it up then didn't like the focusing or the menus or options. M10 for me pick it up and keep shooting with pleaaure and ease. But to each their own.
M10 is also full frame - Similarly, a lot of people compare the x100 series to the Leica Q series but it's not apple to apples. I had both... the Leica is FF and has a summilux on the front of it. More like apples to oranges.
I bought & used my first Leica camera in the summer of 2021, it was an itch that just needed scratching. I had been using a Sony A7R3 often with adapted manual focus lenses, and often in manual exposure mode, which all seemed to align me well with a Leica M. Prior to the A7R3, it has been a Canon 5D2, again, often using adapted manual focus lenses As your survey identified, I like the feel and build quality in my hand. I like the basic/straight forward controls / layout. The biggest disappointment has really been the exposure indication in the viewfinder. I dislike the left/right triangles indicating over/under exposure, because it doesn’t give any indication to how much over/under you are. I learnt on manual film SLR’s which had a swing needle exposure indicator, which immediately shows how close your exposure in over/under exposed. Leica tells you if you are under or over, but it doesn’t tell you by how much. I had not thought about this issue before hand, I guess my concern was more toward how I’d get on with Range finder focusing.
Hi Lawrence, good point, this isn’t something that gets mentioned very often. I think I get used to estimating by eye so the arrow is enough to find tune (but I just take a photo, chimp and correct as needed). I rarely use M meters.
Keep mentioning Sony, Nikon alternatives but your Leica advantages apply equally to Hasselblad X1D, X2d with their natural colour science, build quality etc etc apart from not being a rangefinder - many wouldn't see that as an advantage?
Thanks, yes I don't mention Hasselblad as agree they are closer to Leica in some of the plus points. (I value my film Hassys). I hope to test a X1D or X2D this year from one of my patreons during a workshop so then I will be better informed and can make a video. (I'd rate Hassy at the top with Leica but Leica are more for RF lovers).. from my limited knowledge*
You are comparing a full-frame (35 mm equivalent) Leica M with a medium format mirrorless camera. Two very different experiences (I have used both) in terms of size and speed; plus as Matt mentions it, no range-finder on the XD series and a limited number of lenses so far. Now in terms of build quality and characteristics of the lenses, and color rendition, you are 100% right, both brands excel.
I bought a 2nd hand Sony a7 to shoot with my Leica Lenses so I could use them in the digital sphere (was using them on an M6) as it was the cheapest way of going digital with a Leica front end. To be honest I was a little underwhelmed.......nothing terrible but the images just weren't doing it for me. So I bit the bullet and did what I should have done in the first place - bought a 2nd hand Leica MP typ 240 to add to my M6. Wow - thats MUCH more like it. Don't see myself ever getting rid of the MP typ 240 anytime soon (its already about 8 years old when.I bought it lol) the whole analogue digital experience is just what I was actually looking for.
Thanks, there is no 1 fixed answer. If you like gey tones buy single or uncoated vintages lenses (any)(or modern SC Voigtlanders), if prefer contrast get MC lenses (any)
After several many years with Leica M, Q and SL I am migrating towards the Sony sphere. The A7R V has an almost identical, if not identical, sensor to the one in the M11 and the colours and “pop” are just as good with both GM and adapted Leica glass. Yes, the A7R V has umpteen menu choices but the “main” menu is simple and not far off the SL2/SL2-S Home Screen. And like software, you don’t have to use every choice just because it’s there. Oh, and it’s got PDAF.
Sensor stack thickness on Sony limits Leica-M adaptation for wide angle lenses. 50mm is apparently fine, but 35mm struggles with smearing in the corners. Agree Sony is a more flexible tool. It really comes down to whether you like rangefinders or mirrorless.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks for the reply. I did watch that video. I've been thinking about the SL ( Peter Coulson mentioned you in a recent video. That's how I found you ) I do studio work with a Sony A7riii and have been thinking about a change. My reluctance has been using flash with the SL. Do you have a specific video showing your workflow with the SL and flash in a studio ? I looked last night but if it is there, I missed it. Thanks so much !
I have seasons of Leica envy - especially a Q2 - but when I weigh up the cost and then the features I would have to give up - like IBIS that lets me shoot hand held at 3 seconds, dependable WR construction of body and lenses that stand up to years of rain, sand,silt, saltwater and fish slime and up to 60 fps full size RAW images ... and I go off and enjoy the camera I have all the more.
Back in the film days, I was. a Hasselbladsman, always shooting at waist level. I once considered a Leica, but it was too heavy for my use, since it had to held at eye level.
actually zenit, a russian company in collaboration with leica are selling a digital rangefinder based on the m240. And pixii, a french company, have made a digital rangefinder with a fuji xtrans 4 apsc sensor
I’m not sure what Photographers you’re talking about. I’ve been doing wedding photography for 20 years and I’ve never seen one photographer Use Leica cameras. And when I did sports and concert photography, I never saw anyone use that brand either. I have a Leica M2 and a couple lenses and I love the camera. But I think that brand has priced itself out of the market and it’s used mostly for Photographers who are camera nerds and camera collectors because they are so expensive. There’s nothing I could do with any like a camera and lens is that I can’t do with my Fuji equipment. And for a lot less money. Just my opinion.
Thanks Mark, I did love RF cameras for weddings but must admit I use Leica mirrorless now (weddings). Moving from big fat DSLR to small Leica for weddings was the best thing I ever did. (And the photos improved).
I always liked the Cooke Speed Panchros, however really old, problematic and expensive. Now I saw Light Lens Lab is coming out with a Cooke SPII. If you come across one I would be interested in seeing that. Thanks, enjoy the videos
I own Sony’s, Leica M11, Q2 and the image quality of the Sony and Q2,Q3 is superior than the M11. Most Sony lenses are also sharper with less CA and vignerons than my Leica glass. Also Leica M glass can’t compete In sharpness towards Sony compatible glass. Still love shooting with my Leica and perhaps the softness of some of the lenses attributed to the Leica feel or look. Different tools for different opportunities or applications IMO. Sony A7R5 for professional work where I can’t afford miss shots. Leica for everything personal where time or missing shots is not a concern.
Great points Matt. I would add user interface, leica glass, forces one to slow down and "be in the moment", etc. This year I resolve to join you on one of your photo tours. I lived in London in the early 90s in Swiss Cottage and worked in Piccadilly.
You can force yourself to slow down and be in the moment by getting a roll of athletic tape and taping your thumbs to your forefingers before you go out to make photos. You can send the US $8,997 this tip has just saved you to me, so I can go out and spend it on an M11...
Hi Edilson, thanks! Yes it would be great to meet you if you come to London again. Are you on the mailing list? mrleica.com/mrleica-newsletter-february-2023/
Haha thanks James, I know you know your stuff so I appreciate the humour.. In reverse, once you have shot Leica I find I can shoot better/ slower with any camera as it's just habit. Equally you don't need a Leica to go slow, any older RF camera / MF / LF body will slow us down (as you know)
"Slowing down" is not necessarily strictly true, in fact I have used Leicas for ages for street photography because once one uses zone focusing (using the depth of field) an M is faster than any other current camera (no focusing time).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComAnyone can go slow with any camera, it is not the camera that decides but the camera user. Let us be responsible photographers and not blame the tool for our misgivings and bad choices/habits! In anything, discipline helps.
Thanks! Yes the lens is king but for me to use a camera I need to (1) be able to see to accurately focus (2) enjoy the process. Other digital boxes are less fun.
Thanks Clint! (Thanks for subbing again too, I didn't even notice a break. Please drop me a message anywhere if I can help you with anything. I'd love to give you some time back for your ongoing generous support.
Some models yes, some not. The M8/M9 had I think, the CL /SL don't.. ? I think from memory as a few examples. Not sure what they go up to. A lot I imagine
Matt, is it rude to say since owning my Leica Q3, all other brand gear on the market just looks cheap and plastic? I am not being a Leica snob, but I see these new cameras coming out from other brands and they just look like cheap plastic cameras. I seen the new fuji xs20 i think the model was, in store and it looked like a childs toy. The Leica feels like a heavy duty industrial machine in comparison to other cameras.
Going by the survey answers, it seems as if key elements in Leica appeal are the same ones that make old rich guys here in the US collect old "muscle cars" from the '60s and '70s*: They want the car that they lusted after when they were kids, and the way they learned to do things in the old days (carburetor, points ignition, manual transmission, drum brakes, etc.) seems "simpler" to them because they've had more time to get used to it. The collector car industry's problem is that those old guys aren't going to live forever, and the younger rich guys who are replacing them in the marketplace lusted after different cars and never developed an affection for their old-fashioned technology. Same with cameras: I would guess nearly 100% of people coming into photography today are coming from cell phones, not from old film cameras, and twiddling knobs and dials and rings to them seems neither logical nor simple. So, how does Leica continue to prosper in the luxury-goods market once all the oldsters who grew up revering the brand are no longer buying? Well, that's probably why Leica is spending so much money and PR effort now on showing its goods in the hands of rappers and sports stars and other people the young regard as tastemakers! *At least Leica does make good cameras, usually. I'm old enough to have driven a lot of '60s and '70s muscle cars and almost all of them were kack.
Hi James, another great point. Interestingly to me, the few times I go to the used camera store in London (that sell Leica + others), almost everyone is young cool and pretty. (I think I mentioned on Patreon meeting a top flite model buying a T2).. but maybe bad example as it's auto everything.. hmm. The younger crowd like film but thinking about it most buy the auto cameras to get the film look as they are used to electronic.. interesting.
Maybe that needs to be my mission.. get younger people to love the older manual cameras.. but most can't afford Leica til their older anyway. (Not all, I meet some smart 20 yr olds on my Leica workshops that break that rule).
Reliability and simplicity of use even in the latest model has nothing to do with muscle cars. In fact I bet that the majority of Leica M owners own a muscle car (I know many Magnum photographers and none of them have muscle cars just to adorn their garages but they use Leica Ms that never stay on a shelf or behind a glass window. I remember seeing Josef Koudelka's formerly black Leica M that was all brass with no paint left! I know you express a caricatural view for the fun of it but if you were and still are a Leica M user you would know that the comparison does not work. I know a lot of those "cell-phone-raised" young photographers that use or would like to use (once their budgets allow it) a Leica for the very reasons Matt enunciated in the video not for the luxury part (the "luxury" audience is one we should not dismiss as they help Leica go and personally they have allowed me to acquire pristine used equipment ;o)
My preference for Leica is while most of the others try to catch trends, put a lot of gimmicks and features in their cameras that 99% of people will never use, etc…Leica focuses on PHOTOGRAPHY. They just get out of the way and let you get to it. No nonsense or a computer doing the work for you. Recently used an M10 and took me a day or two to get used to doing the work myself, just like I used to in the film days. So used to cameras doing the advanced multi metering, lightning fast AF, etc…where the M10 made me get used to multi metering on my own by averaging different areas using the centered metering and so forth. Sometimes I don’t always agree with their prices and such, but at the core essence of photography as a whole, Leica is unrivaled. Even the photos from the lenses…they are CLEAR, not SHARP. Sharp is just the zeros and ones of the computer algorithm paired with a lens in oversharpening a photo. Too many other brands in 2023 are guilty of this. Leica photos retain a natural look and softness to them and don’t look over sharpened. Realistic vs over edited. My Leica TL2 is older by a few years but STILL some of my favorite photos I’ve ever taken have come out of that camera
People often forget that you can use non Leica cameras for simplicity as well. You got more features but you don't becessarily have to use them. Just set up your basic settings and go. That's at least how I'm doing it w. my Fuji cameras. Never used the video function on my Fujifilm X-E4 for instance. Just the basics et voila. I have an M8 as well which is fun but not really the devine L-experience that many are raving about. Well not for me. Nice but worth the extra cost plus the costly calibration hassle? Not sure about that. Not trying to debase it. Like I said I do have an M8 as well. Great fun camera that's for sure . All imo
Thanks and yes good point. Using just the basics settings on any camera helps. I did this with Nikon and with my Lumix S5. M8 should be more fun and the files should be different but perhaps not for everyone. (They are slow now compared to modern cameras!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom from what I've seen so far online, the Lumix S5 yields amazing colours as well. I bought the M8 mainly because of its' odd colours and amazing B&W files. I've been following your amazing B&W work for quite a while, so for what it's worth here's my personal pointer to a hidden sleeper. NIKON D50. Amazing B&W machine. Search Flickr for the D50 and you'll be astouned what people are able to get out of this old 6 Mp camera. Maybe those photographers were a different generation and w. different skills,....dunno. Check it out.
I“m mostly a slow shooter with manual lenses almost 100 % of the time. Consequently I’m used to digital manual photography. It’s sometimes a pain when you want to shoot a legal portrait of a stranger that you don’t want to steal his time. With the range finder system it becomes even more time consuming and I found myself missing quite some good spontaneous shots . After about 5 years or so I mounted it’s AF lens on my Fuji. With eye detect I must say it was a great experience as for the fast and pleasant results even though I was missing the challenge a bit. I wonder how the great photographers were able to take such great shots w their range finder cameras. Maybe because we never get to know the fails they had. And probably because they were shooting in zone
@@TheoDahlemPickups If you spend enjoy time with any 1 camera /lens setup you can get very fast with manual focus. The greats were great because they probably invested 1000s hours practicing. I used to be like a ninja with M bodies but I’ve lost my edge a bit since using the CL/SL.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yes indeed. An other reason, even though I spent almost a decade shooting w. the small Olympus XA range finder exclusively, why I'm getting worse w. range finder is my eyesight. At 65 it's a bit worse than back then, so that's just me. THanks for the good work. Keep going Matt.
I was going to buy an M8 with a 50mm Summicron but the seller regretted it. Then bought another M8 without lens. A few weeks later, the seller who regretted it contacts me and asks if I'm still interested. Since I wanted a Summicron, I bought both the camera and the lens. So now I have two Leica M8s in mint condition, both have only about 3000 exposures. The plan is to sell one, but realize it will be difficult. Leica is somehow more than just a camera, it is culture, history and emotions. True emotions are worth more than money in the bank🙂
Great video Matt, easy pace, well done and good points. In addition to the point of simplicity this: The M11 (not my choice) is a deviation of that rule. First and far most the 60 MP sensor, although the sensor on it self is good it should be smaller in MP like around 30 - 36 (and yes you can combine pixels to tune it back but it does not change the characteristics of that sensor). With the 60 MP your older Leica lenses will not perform so good anymore (of course Leica likes you to buy the newer lenses) But that is (for me and a lot of Leica users) the point of buying in the system, to use great older (cheaper) lenses with optimal performance. Now the M11 has a lot of great points e.g. in battery life and other features but it's not the simple camera anymore. With Leica, every other camera is back to simplicity, the M10 (basic) is a 24 MP camera and that is enough (also for vintage lenses) Now the M12 will be a camera that will be a more simpler one. Thorsten did a nice video on that, look it up, totally agree with him on that matter. Thanks for sharing
Thanks RD, still not good enough but trying! (Autofocus all over the place so will have to go back to MF for video.. I was too close, and then moved even closer in second half, end was clipping so dropped the audio then the start was too quiet.. the endless list continues haha.. but thanks about M11/12, noted.
There is the M10 R for that (40Mp) or even the M10-P (24 Mp). You have got choices. As for an M12, no-one has any idea about it and Leica people strictly never speak of the next camera or lens before it is on the market.
@@BrunoChalifour OMG are you going to explain to me that there is a Leica M10. If you go back to the recent history of Leicas there is a basic camera M9 followed by a full option camera M240 (incl video) followed by a more basic camera M10 (24MP) followed by a more full option camera M11 (60MP etc. what a basic rangefinder doesn't need) so following that path there is some logic that the M12 will be more basic and yes everybody knows Leica does not talk much about future cameras and that is why we search for pending Leica patents all over the world to see what they are up to and guess what camera it will be used for.
@@RS-Amsterdam OMD (dog) Not only an M10 but and M10-P, an M10 monochrome (40 Mp), and an M10-R, 40 Mp too, (chronologically)!Who knew! Amazing, ain't it? Those guys at Weltzar! Yes, searching for Leica patents is an indication but I photograph and have no time for that... my mistake, I suppose ;o) Nice talking to you (I mean it).
1st I’d love to have a Leica M10 Monochrome that being said I have an use Nikon and have the d810 that’s still going strong and use it all the time. I have an old Nikkomat and a Nikkormat that both work perfectly fine . I still want a Leica M5 also . I know it’s the not liked Leica but it’s one I’ve almost bought many times. I just think it’s a beautiful camera . Leica does have some kind of edge for sensor quality. I also am a Nikon fan and wish they still made their own sensors. I know they design their own sensors and they too have a different image quality I like o er other brands. I also shoot a couple Sony a7siii’s too . They have their look too so I like to creatively use each one .
Thanks, ah I came from the D800 (bought on pre-order from Jessops as a wedding photographer). I found the files too clean in the end so that pushed me first to film and then to the Leica M9 (CCD). I have a Nikkomat, still need to try it.. got it with a lens. I have a lot of Nikon film bodies but no digital now. Let me know when you get your M5! :)
Let us stick to Leica M. It is interesting you like the M5 which for many, including myself, consider as a brick and a failure that almost made Leica go belly up if it had not been for the Toronto factory (Canada) re-inventing the M4 and bringing the M6. PS: an piece of advice regarding the M5, it borrowed its light metering system to the CL and it often fails (mechanically).
I think that you'll find the Kodak sensors used in earlier Leica digital models were the same as the early Olympus, Canon and Panasonic models ... The only difference in the M8 had no IR cut filter on, which makes the sensor / image seem sharper. The M5s only real issue was the inability to use certain lenses from the collapsible range.
@@kiwipics Thank you for the information John. Sensors may be a little more complex than that (micro-lenses on top of photosites that may differ) which may explain some difference, probably not that great as you rightfully mention it. As for color rendition most of the time we are talking straight out of the camera JPGs and there the software used by the camera manufacturer matters too and may explain the difference even with sensors made by the same manufacturer. Now coming to the M5, I have used all Ms and could never get used to the size and bulk of the M5, "the brick" ;o). Some of my professional friends that bought it when it came out because it was the first M with an incorporated light-meter promptly sold theirs when the M6 was released. If you buy one, as it will most probably be a used one, make sure the lightmeter works (I remember checking eBay one or two years ago and half that were sold mentioned were described with meter not working, the others with meter working, both quite a proof that there is a problem there) unless you just need a bigger M4-P.
Matt do you realise that the Leica 1 you are showing (near Tower Bridge I think) @ 1'24" is not a Rangefinder while you are talking of rangefinders ;o)
Haha thanks Bruno, true.. (I tried to find footage I hadn't deleted of me using a film RF. That bodies does come with the RF attachment but it's not built in so some might call it a RF, others not. I use it without RF for speed.
According to me people goes to Leica for the brand which makes any true photographer dreaming (I mean true photographer not prosumers which are numerous on RUclips), and as you said the fact of owning an item that you love makes you use it and improve your photography just because you use them more. The simplicity is probably the second one which makes you go to the essential, at 100s of miles of Sony complex and too verbose menus and buttons. Finally and I may probably disappoint you , I am convinced by the build quality , not always by the look - I do love the Q or the M and I hate the SL - and not always by the image quality. When you take the same picture with a Fujifilm, a Leica M240 , a Sony and a Nikon (I don t own Canon), according to me it s very difficult to find which camera took which picture so the advantage of Leica is not here… and if you take pictures at 2500 iso the advantage is clearly not there :). But on the same way a Rolex doesn’t t give a more accurate time than a Tissot 20 times cheaper… Anyway I love my Leicas , I use them more than all my other gear and they makes me love taking picture which is the essential…
That's all good and dandy but for us common mortals with sh**** wages Leica brand is simply too expensive, unless if we are amateurs who can get some older film Leica for occasional use. Or if we win a lottery...
Hi Tomislav, the older models are a less crazy expensive if you can manage to save a bit each month. (I haven't heated my house for 5 yrs, I still dont own a house, I dont drink, don't smoke, dont have a TV/ netflix, dont eat out, dont party. Yes i'm very boring but it gave me enough money to buy my first Leica). The SL is maybe the best value (M8 and M9 are quite slow now).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom "the older models are a less crazy expensive" - that's the truth, and my only option to buy anything from the M system, but sadly, no matter how much you are saving the money will not help you if you have a kid in the college, in the foreign country on top of that (a huge money pit indeed), unless you are filthy rich to begin with...
I wonder why Leica Cameras and Leica Lenses are much too expensive, Leica binoculars are about the same price as Zeiss and Swarowski which have as good optical image quality and built quality as Leica !!! Maybe it is like the diamant "mafia", lie as much as you can about the value and people will believe that it is worth it !???
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom A binocular are a binocular. A camera a camera and a camera Lens a Camera Lens. My guess it that is is more difficult to make a Sony A7-series Camera, than a Leica SL, because the Sony are much more compact, but still the Leica are so much more expensive, it gives no meaning, unless you do want to have over priced things like Gucci. Sony have made some of the most complex Lenses lately and Sony Lenses are no way near the prices of Leica Lenses. You have also tried the excellent Voigtländer APO-Lanthar Lenses that only cost a tiny fraction of Leica Lenses, some fine day customers turn their back to Leica and leave it.
Nice video, the tape-up guys are ridiculous, just my mind. I also don’t like the posing Leica-owners. I prefer a non-red-dot Leica, maybe in black paint and a dark leather strip. I alway keep my Leica in my very old looking camera bag, so nobody realize, that I’m using Leica.
You probably have to take your camera out of the bag in order to use it ;o) Most people, even in Matt's survey, use Leica Ms and just not pose with them or spend their time looking at them. It's an easy caricature that we hear again and again and that we should give up. Regarding numbers, I have seen more "posers" with Canon, Nikon or Sony APS-C cameras and huge tele-photo lenses tor some with the top-of-the-line DSLRs while they only use their for family and vacations pictures than I have seen Leica posers (not that they may not exist but how many have you ever met?) Posers are posers whatever the area the field or object... it has little to do with the area, the field or the object. We can use it as a foot-note but definitely not as a defining argument.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom this is something people don't tell you about! That's why I prefer a digital with an onshore repair facility. Leica could not guarantee a loaner camera while waiting!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yeh so that's not cool! right now I been shooting with a canon RP and m mount adapted summarit 50 in the street. I think its a pretty good setup, light, quick, but the good thing is its repaired locally by canon within 2 weeks and i get a loaner to use while waiting.
These attempts to make Leica cameras seem like they’re not an extremely obscure niche product are most amusing. To put it simply, Leica rangefinders were class leading in the mid 20th century. They were literally the best you could buy, and serious pros flocked to them. However, they haven’t changed the design in 75 years, and they’re now essentially obsolete. Leica’s current business model consists of competing with Rolex for the cash of status hungry, wealthy non-photographers by selling increasingly absurd and ridiculous limited editions and wildly over-priced bodies and lenses. It’s no coincidence that basically no serious photographers use Leica equipment, You don’t see the press stands full of SLs - they all use Sony and Canon - and the rangefinders are even less popular. The S was a disaster and quietly sank into the murky depths, and the T and CL were laughable compared to the alternatives makers like Fujifilm offer. Don’t get me wrong - I don’t hate the original Leica design. I have an M3 and use it regularly. It’s a very enjoyable, nostalgic experience, but when there are serious photos to be taken I do what everybody else does and get a proper camera out…
Thanks Patrick, you bring up some good points that are rarely mentioned quite as clearly as you put it. I don't agree 100% (M's still the most popular by a margain) but it's good to hear a balanced argument. I agree most press photographers need snappy AF setups and better flash options so yes Leica is not suited for this. Glad to hear you love your M3. I always value my film shots over digital but I enjoy the digital Leicas for the work I do. (I think I would very quickly stop photography if I used a auto everything modern consumer camera so in a way these clunky niche Leica keep my passion alive. I can't ask for any more).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I have some great photos I’ve taken with my M3, but far, far more from my Hasselblad. It’s not suitable for everything but that’s where I go when I want all the benefits of film. I do find the current trajectory of Leica as a company very sad to see, and would rather they returned to their utilitarian, Bauhaus roots and made simple, ultra-functional cameras with high build quality at a reasonable price instead of doing cringey collaborations with celebrities and playing silly games with pricing to try to attract the luxury goods clientele.
@@patrickoloan4446 Thanks Patrick. Yes I use Hassy too. There are nice for sure. I find 35mm film better for my portraits currently but I do go through phases of medum format too. (and yes I think in the end people just want "simple, ultra-functional cameras with high build quality at a reasonable price")
You are making some good and obvious point regarding Leica's marketing expansion in the past 20 years under the Kaufmann's brother leadership. It should be remembered that Leica did not take the digital turn very well as they were not equipped for it and their requirements (distance lens / full-frame were unique. They fumbled with the M8 and M9, finally got it better with the M240 with a body that gained a little fat and slow processing, and finally right with the M10 series. Without wealthy "donors" (as we may not be able to call them full-fledged users) Leica manage to survive a present some interesting models that allowed the rangefinder camera to survive and us film M users to transition to digital unequivocally. It is true that the price to pay has been high, the reward being what I just expressed in the previous sentence. I would add that I am grateful for the moneyed ones who bought Leica Ms and probably sold them when the next model was announced as through the years I have equipped myself with pristine used Leicas ! Now regarding Leica being at the top of their game, Canon but most effectively and decidedly Nikon were close on their heels if not ahead. Douglas D. Duncan brought Nikon glass for his Leica that he valued over the Leica lenses he had. Robert Frank photographed a good part of the Americans with a Leica III and a Nikon 5 cm f 1.4; he also used a Nikon 85 mm f 1.5. Both Japanese manufacturers stopped RF productions with their SLRs (as the Nikon SP is probably one of the most advance RF ever combining both Contax (bayonet mount and focusing system) and Leica know-how and adding excellent glass. Design: why change a design if it good and functional?? They tried with the R8 and R9, definitely innovative but coming late and not that successful in terms of marketing shares, it is probable that the R6 / R6.2 sold more. Believe me, and I have used both (Fuji X pros, X100, X-Es and Leica CL), the CL is far from being laughable. For me its design (the function buttons) is the best on the market, the most efficient even if to be tamed at first. The CL has that tactile experience that the Fujis do not have and although Fuji offers more (and cheaper) lenses whose quality cannot be doubted I still settled for my CL over 3 generations of X Pros with all their bells and whistles and useless "film simulations" (at least for a seasoned photographer). You are totally right, as many others are, about the pricing of Leica equipment, especially Ms (and I'll give some details below) but saying that " It’s no coincidence that basically no serious photographers use Leica equipment," is actually wrong. Many serious photographers do or will. Granted not as many as used to (Salgado moved from Leica to Canon and then Pentax medium format), Joel Meyerowitz moved from Leica M to 8x10 Deardorff and then back to digital Leica M, many Magnum photographers, old and young, use Leica Ms and I suppose they all go under "serious photographers." I would think of Matt or Benj Haisch as serious RUclipsrs photographers... they both use Leicas. Now the big and real argument: cost. I did a little research and happened to have two copies of "US Camera" magazine one from 1960 and the other from 1961. I looked at prices: in 1960 an M3 + 50 mm Summicron cost around $230 (= and $ 2,300 today)-now the latest M6 with a 50 mm Summicron is around $ 8300, an M10(-P) with the same lens around $ 10,000 so prices have roughly been multiplied by 4 in real cost ; in 1961 (as the SLRs including the Nikon F were not on the US market before the end of 1960) a Contarex (first Conrad SLR) with a Planar 50 mm f2 cost $ 450 (almost twice the M3 combo); a Nikon F + 50 mm f 2 was a $ 330 (almost 50% more than the M3+50); a Bronica 6x6 with an 80 mm f 2.8 (Nikon) was a $ 490. SLRs were the latest technology then and R&D had to be paid off but still. What can be said is that Dr Kaufmann has revived the Leica brand and paid for it (and German skill and labor... not the same cost as in the Philipinnes or China) with an increase in developing the legendary heritage and "image" of the brand (walk into a Leica store... it does not look like a corner store at all, neither Jessops nor B&H, and they stayed in spite of COVID and Leica being a small manufacturer compared to the competition (except Hasselblad that has the same issues)!!! Under Kaufmman Leica has operated a "diversification" of the audience ;o) also aiming at the luxury and exclusive market, and all of these, all, have generated an increase in price. Now there are still the non exclusive series and the used market for the rest of us. An admitted extraordinary increase in price has not decreased the unique experience and qualities of a Leica M and the meticulousness with which the products are assembled. Now it always comes down to a matter of values and choice. Even if it took me years to be able to afford my first used Leica, I have no regret and Leica Ms are my go-to cameras (which does not mean I do not, from time to time, use others when they are required but definitely not with the same anticipation and pleasure). PS: when there is a serious photographed to be taken, I still take my Leica M and zoom with my feet! But I understand this do not apply to micro-photography, wild life and some sports (not all though) but these are not my types of serious "photography". The point here being "know your tools and use the ones that you need," Leica Ms are no Swiss knife just good paring ones and that is the one I use most of the time in the kitchen. It goes with the kind of cooking I do. ;o)
I’m sure they are good cameras but every digital m camera that’s come out has had serious from the factory they had to solve. other manufacturers of cameras seldom have. So unless it’s your business or have two for backup or rich I would never trust those cameras as a hobbyist
maybe for the M... but I can assure you my SL2-S is a TANK!!! Dropped twice on cement, once while running up stairs to get a shot... still works 100% perfect. Whether or not it's worth it over another mirrorless equivalent on the market can be debated, but the reliability and the construction of the SL series is insane and the only thing I can think of that comes close is the canon 1Dx series cameras and the Nikon Z9.
Thanks hah, true - I did put a mention of that on the screen. The images from the M9 are fantastic but you have to find a good sensor and then still have the risk.
Not exactly, a Leica M is more of a tool used by far many more people, sometimes regardless of revenue, than any Bentley. It is the same easy caricature... do we need another utterance of it?
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom But I would love to have one though, that fullframe rangefinder is actually quite attractive. perfect for shooting Vintages and (d)Slr lenses, which is 35 mm. Although they can be quite good, the resolution of vintages lenses are not really made for high pixel density of Aps-c sensors. They were made for the demands of 35 mm film.
It has been up for eleven days and you still not editing false statement as of Leica making only digital rangefinder. Well, your credibility score just went to zero.
Hi Kostya, thanks. Yes correct Leica make mirrorless too. I mention in most videos that I use the M, CL, SL, Q so people know that Leica are not limited to digital RF cameras. If you read the link blog post it also says this. Perhaps you missed it. (Videos can't be edited once live FYI*)
Thanks, yes I think each brand has it's loyal followers. Leica has perhaps 1/5 of functions of most popular brands but I think people like them for their many limitations.
Have you ever owned and used a Leica for some period of time? Where does a Leica M lose on being a unique range-finder? Why do so many very efficient, result and quality driven professional photographers have been using Leica range-finders since the 1930s? These are also objective metrics that deserve to be considered. You may not be using your long-view from the right side ;0) Say I do. not own a Leica, I have no intention of acquiring one... for whatever reason, that might be enough too. ;o)
@@BrunoChalifour How many professionals use it compared to others? It's a drop in the ocean. And that's the only objective metric you brought up. Rest is all subjective. So is Leica 'BETTER' than the rest - of course not. So why the need to say or prove this at all?
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I know a lot of both professional and hobby photographers, only one of them use Leica now. Some of them used to use Leica R Cameras, but now they use Sony, Canon and Nikon. I think if Leica years ago had made a full frame digital Camera with Leica R mount, then there would have been more Leica users now, maybe even me, I still have some of my Leica R Lenses, which works great on my Sony Cameras. I am very happy with my Sony Cameras now.
I genuinely avoid gear reviews but I have to be honest and say you have sold me my Nikon f100 my Kiev 4 and I find myself thinking constantly that my life needs an m3 I should unsubscribe your hurting my finances
Thanks Austen! Kiev 4 - still love it.. bought a new lens so video will come at some point. F100 was amazing but until my eyes need AF I went back to older smaller models (FM2/FE2 etc). M3 - at least you can try and if not like it sell for the same price.. but warning.. you will like it so plan for that in advance! :) ..M3 is the 1 camera you can pass on to the next generation :)
Haha thanks Pete, guilty as charged. I have many wives that probably hate me.. but at least you bought the right camera first time and my million messages to you than the S5 and then would need to buy twice ;)
Thanks Chuck, i'm doing my best to improve my terrible speaking (40+ years of happily being the quiet one in the corner and now I need to use my voice). The end of the audio was clipping as too loud so I dropped the volume but then the rest was quieter.. either way I need to speak up so thanks for the nudge. Work in progress.
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I got the Leica M9 because I wanted a camera and not a computer, and you touched upon this in the video. To be honest, I would use any camera brand if it offered the same user experience, it just so happens that Leica are the only manufacturer offering a user experience I find most rewarding. Also, what you quickly realise is you don't need masses of ISO as you would believe and I've been happily shooting the M9 in gig setting and getting great results. I've been posting slideshow videos on my own channel of images captured with the M9 if anyone cares to have a gander.
Thanks Derren, yes agreed it's what the cameras give us rather than the badge. (I am quite fond of the badge too now but that's just me!)
Couldnt agree more, number one reason build quality and simplicity. By the way Im still on iphone4, see no reason to change!
Thanks Paul! I was going to show my iPhone SE but the battery was dead hahaha (I have newer one too but use both daily)
Great video Matt. Still using the older cameras and producing awesome work!!! Two cameras I wish I hadn't sold, M6 & M9. Beautiful units. Maybe I'll add another M6 one day.
Thanks Paul, If you're UK based you're welcome to contact me for my M6. I rarely use it. (I'm a M3 guy!). Yes I miss the M9 too. I wish they'd re-released it with a fixed sensor.
I have been a Fuji XPro (1-3) user since 2013. I am ready to invest in my first Leica when the Q3 comes out…you win! Lol
Welcome Hart! Peter M' says it better than me but you're probably going to love it ;)
I bought an old Leica X1 for a bargain price and with the very first test shots outside my house, I thought WOW when I put them on my PC. I've only had it 3 months and out of all the photos I have posted over the years, the Leica shots are the first to attract comments about how clear, sharp, punchy, detailed some of them are. I am only really ever shooting travel photos, but it is amazing how this 2009 cheap camera raises the quality of the image. It doesn't matter that things take longer. The feel of the camera and simple operation, the pleasureable shooting experience and the quality of the image encourage me to go out and take photos.
Hi, thanks for sharing this. It's great to hear that regardless of the model the Leica images stand out. Great!
Agree with much of what Matt says in this video. I have and use a Leica M9 from 2009.
Good video and thank you!!
Thanks Knut!
As someone who works in a camera shop, it is not surprising to hear old cameras being used by professional photographers. In fact, 10 years is probably about average from what I see.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the video.
I bought my M6 for the reliability, the ergonomics, the image quality, the manufacturing quality, the attractiveness, and the status.
Great! I love the film bodies more too
Hi Matt thanks for this video. I am a first time Leica owner. For years I have worked with several brands, starting with canon which i still use to this day, Sony A7 series which I use more for video and recently a Fuji XPro3 which is my personal, everyday, life and travel camera. A few weeks ago I made a significant leap in purchasing my first ever Leica, a Q3. I was and still am amazed by the build quality, image quality, simplicity, weight and feel of this camera. All my other gear except my faithful Canon 1dx all feel plastic and cheap. I purchased the Q3 as my new life camera, to capture special moments, travel and everyday. I will never use it for work. I know this sounds silly, but I am in love with this camera. I have an attachment to it that I want it with me everywhere to document life. I will admit I am a red neck strap Leica photographer, I am proud to show it off and talk about it with other photographers. Thanks for producing the video as it really reinforced why Leica is a brand that has soul and emotional value, their cameras become a part of your life and not a pointless accessory. Cheers. When someone owns an alternate brand camera, they take photos, when someone owns a Leica, they make photos. - my saying :)
Welcome to Leica and congrats on your Q3! Look out for a video to come :) .. nice saying too!
What you say is true. It is a well-made and usable camera with great images. They are bling for some but for the rest of us it is a great way to get good photos.
Thanks Zoltan!
To each his own. Everyone has their favourite. I’ve been on the M since the early 90s (analogue) to present day digital. Love em to bits and I wouldn’t trade it for any other. Take care
Thanks Izzy! Yes agreed, this video wont be for everyone for sure
I bought an M9 when it first came on the market, I’m still using it a lot, when I was much younger I had an M3 with a collapsible 50mm Summicron.
Hi Barrie, great stuff. I got them both much later and I still use my M3 a lot.
Don’t forget Pixii! They also make a digital (APS-C) rangefinder, with quite an innovative approach. Leica still makes the only digital full frame rangefinder though.
Save your money, and buy a Leica. The Pixii is not worth it. How do I know? Because I own one.
Yeah the Pixiii is still in its infancy. I think there goal is to make an affordable full frame range finder but that'll be years or they might even fold if they get to that point
Don't own one but not sure if it's wise to brush aside a camera company producing a product with upgradeable sensors.
I don't think Pixii gives a rat's asterisk about "full frame" because they realize that the incoming generation of photographers doesn't care about it either... no matter how desperately the RUclips-and-website photo commentariat tries to pour the full-frame Kool-Aid down their throats. These are people who started photography with a phone, discovered they enjoy image-making as a form of expression, and are interested in getting a camera because they want a more involving experience. Pixii's boss is on record as saying one of their design goals was to make a camera that would be "interesting to use," and I suspect that's exactly what a lot of these people are looking for (even if the Pixii itself may be too quirky for most.)
I would go so far as to say that a big appeal factor of Leica cameras is that they're also "interesting to use": they're different, not everybody has one, they have a history, it takes some practice to get the most out of one, etc. Probably the reason the CL and TL camera lines didn't last was that they just weren't "interesting" enough to compete with less-expensive rivals that produced equally good or better results.
Thanks! Sorry I always forget. I must try to get one to review
I agree with a lot of what you have said Matt, myself being a FUJI photographer I only wish FUJI would wake up and produce a pure camera ie no gimmicks no video just an old fashioned camera with the body of say Canon 7 style very much a Leica. I'm sure their are many FUJI owners just waiting for this to happen.
Thanks, agreed. I think whichever brand wakes up to this concept first will succeed.
I think it's interesting to note that most digital Leica M users are either journalists or documentary/street photographer, pretty much like back to Leica M film era.
On the other side, landscape/studio photographers typically are probably still happy with their Hasselblad system. Different camera for different purpose, I guess
Thanks Andre, Yes Absolutely. For M cameras especially.
Good to see you covered the "it's taped over the logo" part.
Thanks, yes I tried to cover all angles. I even used all my tape to make the point for the video :)
100% is the simplicity of the rangefinder. Because I can get the other stuff with other cameras. If you want a simple full frame digital rangefinder; that’s the only game in town.
Thanks Carlos! It was the RF that brought me to Leica too.
The Leica is the best amateur camera as Leitz said in a 1936 German advertisement.
And in Wetzlar they still make no mistakes.
Today most amateurs want to buy the best or want to show they are the
best photographer by walking around with old or new Leicas.
But why do so many Leica photographers put a Lada four cilinder
in their Mercedes? A Russiam optic on a Leica body?
Over the years the Leicas were the cameras for the rich amateurs.
They did not like a 6 x 6 camera.
Leica was the camera for the managers of the big European photoshops,
to show business was going wel.
Some reporters and wedding photographers had a Leica. Some reporters prefered
a 6 x 6 TLR or a SLR or a 4 x 5 press camera. Leica was hardly seen in hospitals,
because colour negatives had to be big. In German hospitals the Linhof Technika
ould be found.
Why had I a Leica in the late Sixties when I was you? I do not know, probobly to irritate .
Not everybody could understand why I had a Hasselblad and a Sinar as well.
You must be out of your mind to mount a Leica lens on a Fuji. The guys in Wetzlar
will not understand why people use just 50% of the quality of a Leica lens on that
small Fuji APS-C sensor.
I do not agree the high value of the Leica. Nobody will find a reason to trade or sell
his Leica. Which fool will trade his Steinway for a Casio keyboard?
On the Leica Feel you are right. For most common digital cameras you must be a
halfbreed between an Urang Utang and an Octopus to hold and handle them.
Leica Last Longer; sometimes outlasting the professional photographer.
It is a pity there are so few professional photographer in 2023, who can afford a Leica.
People buying a new Leica should inform themself better on photography.
The streetphotographers do not make good photos nowadays.
A mister Bladybla with a new digital Leica camera will never become the new HCB,
Capa or Sawada.
Leica and the world wide Leica Stores should train the new didital Leica owmers by teaching them the Leica quality and vision of the Thirties, Fifties and Sixties.
When the Seventies did arrive all went wrong. People had to accept unsharp and grainy photos. The photomagazines became crap, like most of the information on You Tube is. Jjust one single exception, the info brought by Mr. Matt Osborne.
Thanks Jaco, some important points there, thanks (and for the kind words haha). I enjoy using Leica (1), I can see to focus (Big #2), I like the M/LTM lenses (3) and I value that they are build to last (4) ..Love my 1931, My film Ms, the Leicaflex SL (though to big/heavy to use most the time vs smaller options), and digital as mentioned.
I am glad that Bladybals, fools, half-breeds, urang utangs, as well as octopi were invited to the conversation: we had been missing them so far.
Now seriously it is time to reach out of the fish bowl hidden in the garden shed (with a lot of other unsharpened tools... to extend the world of this conversation. There is a lot that has to be cleared here, maybe too much. First, why would people "in the past years" look at 6x6 TLR cameras or 4x5 cameras (no such digital equivalents), this may have been said in the 1980s but that was some 40 years ago... two generations' time.
"Today most amateurs want to buy the best or want to show they are the
best photographer by walking around with old or new Leicas.
" Showing to whom??? Was that different in the past? When? Moreover, today more people are able to identify a cell-phone or a laptop from a distance than a Leica. In my view Leica carriers just inform other Leica owners and it is not new. Most people, even half-breeds, fools, octopi and urang-utangs understand, know that the label is not everything, that carrying a book or a pencil does not make you a novelist or a draughtsman/artist. I have screwdrivers and hammers at home I am far from being a handyman even if I carried them around my neck! When was the last time you saw anyone with a Leica M11, or M10 around their neck. Let us not be ridiculous here (agreed, it is fun and there are enough half-breeds, fools, octopi and urang-utangs... we do not need to add to the list ;o).
"It is a pity there are so few professional photographer in 2023, who can afford a Leica" Where do your statistics come from? Were there more in the past? How do you know? What do you refer to when you say "professional photographer"? Does every professional photographer, even in your mind, need a Leica? Many don't and a Leica M would be totally inadequate for what they do as professional photographers {may be as much as 6x6 TLRs and 4x5s)?
"A mister Bladybla with a new digital Leica camera will never become the new HCB, Capa or Sawada." Why would they want to? They have an advantage over HCB and Capa they can learn from HCB, Capa's works, and many others... and go beyond. Knowledge is power!
Why stop at the 70s? Weren't the 80s bad too? Look at the 90s? and now the 2020s? Where are the good old days when we had World Wars, Great Depressions? Autumn Leaves... (Les Feuilles Mortes) ;o)
Hi okay your are right but look at the price of the older Leica M body prices is still very high, that has hurt me a lot. It will take me years to get a M digital camera just to let you know. But you did a good job.
Thanks and yes still not cheap sadly
#3 In fact Leica is the only company making full frame digital rangefinder camera. There is Pixii digital range finder ( Leica M mount) and I guess Fuji xpro line ( and x100) is near the experience . Love your videos , Especially the barnack ones !
I’ve owned / I own a few Leica M cameras and all versions of the X-Pro, but the X-Pro is a very different camera compared to Leica Ms. Casually observing, they might look similar, but that’s far from the truth. An X-Pro is actually a regular X-T camera, except for the position of the viewfinder. Don’t think that because it has an OVF, it gives you a rangefinder experience. First, the OVF is a very crippled one, compared to an M viewfinder. Secondly, because the manual focus of an X-Pro is a very poor experience compared to that of an M. Finally, lightmetering in an M (except the M11) is very different than other mirrorless cameras. Most people find an X-Pro rather easy to shoot with and comparable to an X-T body. They usually use it in AF-mode and use the EVF. An M is something different that you really have to get used to, to get the best results.
@@jacobh5817 I think you missed his Mathieu's main point…being that Pixii also makes a digital rangefinder, not just Leica.
@@ZippyDChimp-mr1tf thanks for your concern. I fully agree with Matthieu re. the Pixii. However, I just wanted to point out that the X-Pro may look like a rangefinder, but it is not. I’ve seen quite some disappointments in our workshops of people switching either way, thinking it was more of the same.
Thanks, sorry I keep forgetting the Pixii..I will need to try to get one to make a video somehow..
Hi Jacob, many thanks for your Fuji info for others as I know nothing on these. Great stuff.
the simplest, purest digital camera: M-D type 262. It comes with black paint too!
Thanks Jimmy! yes any with no screen give you the purest setup for sure (for non-film lovers).
Can’t really put my finger on it but but after getting myself two Leica sl2s cameras I’m getting nice results for what I’m using them for. I’m working faster with my Canon 1DX mk2 cameras but I’m getting there with my Leica’s.
Congrats! Yes I think no matter what people say about Leica, the cameras can take some nice photos.
They are better engineering
The lenses have maximum optical performance
And sturdier build
If you drop some sharp but inferior lenses it could easily knock some element s out of alignment
The thing is you may not find another lens
But remember with Leica if you do need to send for repair it can be a very costly bill.
I think Oscar Barnack wanted a "Kleinbildkamera" (small image camera) to give results that were as usable as a medium format image is, as best he could.
To do that he turned the regular 35mm film format sideways and doubled the frame size. But he also needed lenses that could deal with the small negative and reduce the scene into a 24x36mm frame without losing too much detail. So this is why they (Leica lenses) were made to such a high standard.
Of course he didn't achieve medium format quality prints, but they were acceptable up to a certain size.
This is just my opinion .
Thanks Lars! Great point (I for one love the small size of the Leica iii + lenses)
I tried a x100v but took two days to set it up then didn't like the focusing or the menus or options. M10 for me pick it up and keep shooting with pleaaure and ease. But to each their own.
Thanks for sharing, yes others have said something similar to me.
M10 is also full frame - Similarly, a lot of people compare the x100 series to the Leica Q series but it's not apple to apples. I had both... the Leica is FF and has a summilux on the front of it. More like apples to oranges.
I bought & used my first Leica camera in the summer of 2021, it was an itch that just needed scratching.
I had been using a Sony A7R3 often with adapted manual focus lenses, and often in manual exposure mode, which all seemed to align me well with a Leica M. Prior to the A7R3, it has been a Canon 5D2, again, often using adapted manual focus lenses
As your survey identified, I like the feel and build quality in my hand. I like the basic/straight forward controls / layout.
The biggest disappointment has really been the exposure indication in the viewfinder. I dislike the left/right triangles indicating over/under exposure, because it doesn’t give any indication to how much over/under you are. I learnt on manual film SLR’s which had a swing needle exposure indicator, which immediately shows how close your exposure in over/under exposed. Leica tells you if you are under or over, but it doesn’t tell you by how much. I had not thought about this issue before hand, I guess my concern was more toward how I’d get on with Range finder focusing.
Hi Lawrence, good point, this isn’t something that gets mentioned very often. I think I get used to estimating by eye so the arrow is enough to find tune (but I just take a photo, chimp and correct as needed). I rarely use M meters.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I’ve never chimped much on my DSLR’s & other mirrorless cameras, even less on an M10-D 🙂
I’m aooooo close to buying a Leica ma with voightlander 35mm lens
Hi Steve! Great. I was teaching a guy with his M-A recently.
Keep mentioning Sony, Nikon alternatives but your Leica advantages apply equally to Hasselblad X1D, X2d with their natural colour science, build quality etc etc apart from not being a rangefinder - many wouldn't see that as an advantage?
and it's Medium Format which brings superior quality to the Leica ruclips.net/video/n06Wl0LooEI/видео.html
Thanks, yes I don't mention Hasselblad as agree they are closer to Leica in some of the plus points. (I value my film Hassys). I hope to test a X1D or X2D this year from one of my patreons during a workshop so then I will be better informed and can make a video. (I'd rate Hassy at the top with Leica but Leica are more for RF lovers).. from my limited knowledge*
You are comparing a full-frame (35 mm equivalent) Leica M with a medium format mirrorless camera. Two very different experiences (I have used both) in terms of size and speed; plus as Matt mentions it, no range-finder on the XD series and a limited number of lenses so far. Now in terms of build quality and characteristics of the lenses, and color rendition, you are 100% right, both brands excel.
Which camera is best for photographing
my mother in law?
The Coffinflex will do?
Ha thanks Jaco
I bought a 2nd hand Sony a7 to shoot with my Leica Lenses so I could use them in the digital sphere (was using them on an M6) as it was the cheapest way of going digital with a Leica front end. To be honest I was a little underwhelmed.......nothing terrible but the images just weren't doing it for me. So I bit the bullet and did what I should have done in the first place - bought a 2nd hand Leica MP typ 240 to add to my M6. Wow - thats MUCH more like it. Don't see myself ever getting rid of the MP typ 240 anytime soon (its already about 8 years old when.I bought it lol) the whole analogue digital experience is just what I was actually looking for.
Great to hear Marc! Yes Leica have the same impact on me too! :)
Love your videos!
Would it be interested to see from you about the Best Black and White lenses for Leica Cameras (film and digital). Cheers!
Thanks, there is no 1 fixed answer. If you like gey tones buy single or uncoated vintages lenses (any)(or modern SC Voigtlanders), if prefer contrast get MC lenses (any)
After several many years with Leica M, Q and SL I am migrating towards the Sony sphere. The A7R V has an almost identical, if not identical, sensor to the one in the M11 and the colours and “pop” are just as good with both GM and adapted Leica glass. Yes, the A7R V has umpteen menu choices but the “main” menu is simple and not far off the SL2/SL2-S Home Screen. And like software, you don’t have to use every choice just because it’s there. Oh, and it’s got PDAF.
Thanks Michael, sorry to see you go but as you say if you can get the same with Sony it makes sense.
Sensor stack thickness on Sony limits Leica-M adaptation for wide angle lenses. 50mm is apparently fine, but 35mm struggles with smearing in the corners.
Agree Sony is a more flexible tool. It really comes down to whether you like rangefinders or mirrorless.
Matt, Spot On! Thank-you for this.
Thanks Rudiger! :)
Leica M lenses on a Leica SL : I'll have to look back at your earlier videos to get clear on that. Thank !
Hi George, yes please do (and on MrLeica.com ) M lenses are fantastic on the SL (a few minor exceptions but always great for my portraits).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks for the reply. I did watch that video. I've been thinking about the SL ( Peter Coulson mentioned you in a recent video. That's how I found you ) I do studio work with a Sony A7riii and have been thinking about a change. My reluctance has been using flash with the SL. Do you have a specific video showing your workflow with the SL and flash in a studio ? I looked last night but if it is there, I missed it. Thanks so much !
I have seasons of Leica envy - especially a Q2 - but when I weigh up the cost and then the features I would have to give up - like IBIS that lets me shoot hand held at 3 seconds, dependable WR construction of body and lenses that stand up to years of rain, sand,silt, saltwater and fish slime and up to 60 fps full size RAW images ... and I go off and enjoy the camera I have all the more.
Thanks Mark, yes the basic features (and cost) of Leica don’t suit all occasions, 100%
Back in the film days, I was. a Hasselbladsman, always shooting at waist level. I once considered a Leica, but it was too heavy for my use, since it had to held at eye level.
I use Hasselblad too, I need to use them more but I’m spoilt by the speed of 35mm
actually zenit, a russian company in collaboration with leica are selling a digital rangefinder based on the m240. And pixii, a french company, have made a digital rangefinder with a fuji xtrans 4 apsc sensor
Thanks Kevin! I always forget the pixii
I’m not sure what Photographers you’re talking about. I’ve been doing wedding photography for 20 years and I’ve never seen one photographer Use Leica cameras. And when I did sports and concert photography, I never saw anyone use that brand either. I have a Leica M2 and a couple lenses and I love the camera. But I think that brand has priced itself out of the market and it’s used mostly for Photographers who are camera nerds and camera collectors because they are so expensive. There’s nothing I could do with any like a camera and lens is that I can’t do with my Fuji equipment. And for a lot less money. Just my opinion.
Thanks Mark, I did love RF cameras for weddings but must admit I use Leica mirrorless now (weddings). Moving from big fat DSLR to small Leica for weddings was the best thing I ever did. (And the photos improved).
I always liked the Cooke Speed Panchros, however really old, problematic and expensive. Now I saw Light Lens Lab is coming out with a Cooke SPII. If you come across one I would be interested in seeing that. Thanks, enjoy the videos
Thanks! Yes!! I’m excited to try to get one to test. I’ll do my best.
I own Sony’s, Leica M11, Q2 and the image quality of the Sony and Q2,Q3 is superior than the M11. Most Sony lenses are also sharper with less CA and vignerons than my Leica glass. Also Leica M glass can’t compete In sharpness towards Sony compatible glass. Still love shooting with my Leica and perhaps the softness of some of the lenses attributed to the Leica feel or look. Different tools for different opportunities or applications IMO. Sony A7R5 for professional work where I can’t afford miss shots. Leica for everything personal where time or missing shots is not a concern.
Thanks, interesting that Q2 is better. In my M11 /W3 video the results were simikar
Great points Matt. I would add user interface, leica glass, forces one to slow down and "be in the moment", etc. This year I resolve to join you on one of your photo tours. I lived in London in the early 90s in Swiss Cottage and worked in Piccadilly.
You can force yourself to slow down and be in the moment by getting a roll of athletic tape and taping your thumbs to your forefingers before you go out to make photos. You can send the US $8,997 this tip has just saved you to me, so I can go out and spend it on an M11...
Hi Edilson, thanks! Yes it would be great to meet you if you come to London again. Are you on the mailing list? mrleica.com/mrleica-newsletter-february-2023/
Haha thanks James, I know you know your stuff so I appreciate the humour.. In reverse, once you have shot Leica I find I can shoot better/ slower with any camera as it's just habit. Equally you don't need a Leica to go slow, any older RF camera / MF / LF body will slow us down (as you know)
"Slowing down" is not necessarily strictly true, in fact I have used Leicas for ages for street photography because once one uses zone focusing (using the depth of field) an M is faster than any other current camera (no focusing time).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComAnyone can go slow with any camera, it is not the camera that decides but the camera user. Let us be responsible photographers and not blame the tool for our misgivings and bad choices/habits! In anything, discipline helps.
"Apparatus (camera).. a black box with complex inner workings to realise a program." Towards a Philosophy of Photography. Vilém Flusser
Thanks! Yes the lens is king but for me to use a camera I need to (1) be able to see to accurately focus (2) enjoy the process. Other digital boxes are less fun.
And I'm just happy with my Kiev-4a
Love mine too John! You’ll see it again in a future video.
Fun video! Thanks for doing this work!
Thanks Clint! (Thanks for subbing again too, I didn't even notice a break. Please drop me a message anywhere if I can help you with anything. I'd love to give you some time back for your ongoing generous support.
I shoot paying jobs with a brace of Nikon D3s' and D700. No one knows the cameras are ancient and no one has complained about the image quality,
Great to hear! A good photographer can use any camera. I used to enjoy my D700
Do shutter actuations exist on Leica cameras? If so how many actuations do they go for?
Some models yes, some not. The M8/M9 had I think, the CL /SL don't.. ? I think from memory as a few examples. Not sure what they go up to. A lot I imagine
Matt, is it rude to say since owning my Leica Q3, all other brand gear on the market just looks cheap and plastic? I am not being a Leica snob, but I see these new cameras coming out from other brands and they just look like cheap plastic cameras. I seen the new fuji xs20 i think the model was, in store and it looked like a childs toy. The Leica feels like a heavy duty industrial machine in comparison to other cameras.
That’s why I only use Leica (for digital)
Going by the survey answers, it seems as if key elements in Leica appeal are the same ones that make old rich guys here in the US collect old "muscle cars" from the '60s and '70s*: They want the car that they lusted after when they were kids, and the way they learned to do things in the old days (carburetor, points ignition, manual transmission, drum brakes, etc.) seems "simpler" to them because they've had more time to get used to it. The collector car industry's problem is that those old guys aren't going to live forever, and the younger rich guys who are replacing them in the marketplace lusted after different cars and never developed an affection for their old-fashioned technology. Same with cameras: I would guess nearly 100% of people coming into photography today are coming from cell phones, not from old film cameras, and twiddling knobs and dials and rings to them seems neither logical nor simple. So, how does Leica continue to prosper in the luxury-goods market once all the oldsters who grew up revering the brand are no longer buying? Well, that's probably why Leica is spending so much money and PR effort now on showing its goods in the hands of rappers and sports stars and other people the young regard as tastemakers!
*At least Leica does make good cameras, usually. I'm old enough to have driven a lot of '60s and '70s muscle cars and almost all of them were kack.
Hi James, another great point. Interestingly to me, the few times I go to the used camera store in London (that sell Leica + others), almost everyone is young cool and pretty. (I think I mentioned on Patreon meeting a top flite model buying a T2).. but maybe bad example as it's auto everything.. hmm. The younger crowd like film but thinking about it most buy the auto cameras to get the film look as they are used to electronic.. interesting.
Maybe that needs to be my mission.. get younger people to love the older manual cameras.. but most can't afford Leica til their older anyway. (Not all, I meet some smart 20 yr olds on my Leica workshops that break that rule).
Reliability and simplicity of use even in the latest model has nothing to do with muscle cars. In fact I bet that the majority of Leica M owners own a muscle car (I know many Magnum photographers and none of them have muscle cars just to adorn their garages but they use Leica Ms that never stay on a shelf or behind a glass window. I remember seeing Josef Koudelka's formerly black Leica M that was all brass with no paint left! I know you express a caricatural view for the fun of it but if you were and still are a Leica M user you would know that the comparison does not work. I know a lot of those "cell-phone-raised" young photographers that use or would like to use (once their budgets allow it) a Leica for the very reasons Matt enunciated in the video not for the luxury part (the "luxury" audience is one we should not dismiss as they help Leica go and personally they have allowed me to acquire pristine used equipment ;o)
My preference for Leica is while most of the others try to catch trends, put a lot of gimmicks and features in their cameras that 99% of people will never use, etc…Leica focuses on PHOTOGRAPHY. They just get out of the way and let you get to it. No nonsense or a computer doing the work for you. Recently used an M10 and took me a day or two to get used to doing the work myself, just like I used to in the film days. So used to cameras doing the advanced multi metering, lightning fast AF, etc…where the M10 made me get used to multi metering on my own by averaging different areas using the centered metering and so forth. Sometimes I don’t always agree with their prices and such, but at the core essence of photography as a whole, Leica is unrivaled. Even the photos from the lenses…they are CLEAR, not SHARP. Sharp is just the zeros and ones of the computer algorithm paired with a lens in oversharpening a photo. Too many other brands in 2023 are guilty of this. Leica photos retain a natural look and softness to them and don’t look over sharpened. Realistic vs over edited. My Leica TL2 is older by a few years but STILL some of my favorite photos I’ve ever taken have come out of that camera
Clear not sharp.. I like that. They definitely tick my box and make me shoot.
People often forget that you can use non Leica cameras for simplicity as well. You got more features but you don't becessarily have to use them. Just set up your basic settings and go. That's at least how I'm doing it w. my Fuji cameras. Never used the video function on my Fujifilm X-E4 for instance. Just the basics et voila. I have an M8 as well which is fun but not really the devine L-experience that many are raving about. Well not for me. Nice but worth the extra cost plus the costly calibration hassle? Not sure about that. Not trying to debase it. Like I said I do have an M8 as well. Great fun camera that's for sure . All imo
Thanks and yes good point. Using just the basics settings on any camera helps. I did this with Nikon and with my Lumix S5. M8 should be more fun and the files should be different but perhaps not for everyone. (They are slow now compared to modern cameras!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom from what I've seen so far online, the Lumix S5 yields amazing colours as well. I bought the M8 mainly because of its' odd colours and amazing B&W files. I've been following your amazing B&W work for quite a while, so for what it's worth here's my personal pointer to a hidden sleeper. NIKON D50. Amazing B&W machine. Search Flickr for the D50 and you'll be astouned what people are able to get out of this old 6 Mp camera. Maybe those photographers were a different generation and w. different skills,....dunno. Check it out.
I“m mostly a slow shooter with manual lenses almost 100 % of the time. Consequently I’m used to digital manual photography. It’s sometimes a pain when you want to shoot a legal portrait of a stranger that you don’t want to steal his time. With the range finder system it becomes even more time consuming and I found myself missing quite some good spontaneous shots . After about 5 years or so I mounted it’s AF lens on my Fuji. With eye detect I must say it was a great experience as for the fast and pleasant results even though I was missing the challenge a bit. I wonder how the great photographers were able to take such great shots w their range finder cameras. Maybe because we never get to know the fails they had. And probably because they were shooting in zone
@@TheoDahlemPickups If you spend enjoy time with any 1 camera /lens setup you can get very fast with manual focus. The greats were great because they probably invested 1000s hours practicing. I used to be like a ninja with M bodies but I’ve lost my edge a bit since using the CL/SL.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yes indeed. An other reason, even though I spent almost a decade shooting w. the small Olympus XA range finder exclusively, why I'm getting worse w. range finder is my eyesight. At 65 it's a bit worse than back then, so that's just me. THanks for the good work. Keep going Matt.
That's a fashionable looking taped up camera Matt, aren't you worried you will start a new trend?
Half a roll of tape in the name of RUclips videos haha, thanks Thomas (and no I don't think I will ever start a trend.. in anything haha)
Best cameras are Leica M system and lenses .
I love the size and yes to the lenses!
😊
Thanks!
I was going to buy an M8 with a 50mm Summicron but the seller regretted it. Then bought another M8 without lens. A few weeks later, the seller who regretted it contacts me and asks if I'm still interested. Since I wanted a Summicron, I bought both the camera and the lens. So now I have two Leica M8s in mint condition, both have only about 3000 exposures. The plan is to sell one, but realize it will be difficult. Leica is somehow more than just a camera, it is culture, history and emotions. True emotions are worth more than money in the bank🙂
Nice Erik!! Yes I know what you mean about hard to sell haha. I say use one and keep one as spare! :)
Great video Matt, easy pace, well done and good points.
In addition to the point of simplicity this:
The M11 (not my choice) is a deviation of that rule.
First and far most the 60 MP sensor, although the sensor on it self is good it should be smaller in MP like around 30 - 36 (and yes you can combine pixels to tune it back but it does not change the characteristics of that sensor).
With the 60 MP your older Leica lenses will not perform so good anymore (of course Leica likes you to buy the newer lenses)
But that is (for me and a lot of Leica users) the point of buying in the system, to use great older (cheaper) lenses with optimal performance.
Now the M11 has a lot of great points e.g. in battery life and other features but it's not the simple camera anymore.
With Leica, every other camera is back to simplicity, the M10 (basic) is a 24 MP camera and that is enough (also for vintage lenses)
Now the M12 will be a camera that will be a more simpler one.
Thorsten did a nice video on that, look it up, totally agree with him on that matter.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks RD, still not good enough but trying! (Autofocus all over the place so will have to go back to MF for video.. I was too close, and then moved even closer in second half, end was clipping so dropped the audio then the start was too quiet.. the endless list continues haha.. but thanks about M11/12, noted.
There is the M10 R for that (40Mp) or even the M10-P (24 Mp). You have got choices. As for an M12, no-one has any idea about it and Leica people strictly never speak of the next camera or lens before it is on the market.
@@BrunoChalifour OMG are you going to explain to me that there is a Leica M10.
If you go back to the recent history of Leicas there is a basic camera M9 followed by a full option camera M240 (incl video) followed by a more basic camera M10 (24MP) followed by a more full option camera M11 (60MP etc. what a basic rangefinder doesn't need) so following that path there is some logic that the M12 will be more basic and yes everybody knows Leica does not talk much about future cameras and that is why we search for pending Leica patents all over the world to see what they are up to and guess what camera it will be used for.
@@RS-Amsterdam OMD (dog) Not only an M10 but and M10-P, an M10 monochrome (40 Mp), and an M10-R, 40 Mp too, (chronologically)!Who knew! Amazing, ain't it? Those guys at Weltzar! Yes, searching for Leica patents is an indication but I photograph and have no time for that... my mistake, I suppose ;o) Nice talking to you (I mean it).
1st I’d love to have a Leica M10 Monochrome that being said I have an use Nikon and have the d810 that’s still going strong and use it all the time.
I have an old Nikkomat and a Nikkormat that both work perfectly fine .
I still want a Leica M5 also . I know it’s the not liked Leica but it’s one I’ve almost bought many times. I just think it’s a beautiful camera .
Leica does have some kind of edge for sensor quality.
I also am a Nikon fan and wish they still made their own sensors. I know they design their own sensors and they too have a different image quality I like o er other brands. I also shoot a couple Sony a7siii’s too . They have their look too so I like to creatively use each one .
Thanks, ah I came from the D800 (bought on pre-order from Jessops as a wedding photographer). I found the files too clean in the end so that pushed me first to film and then to the Leica M9 (CCD). I have a Nikkomat, still need to try it.. got it with a lens. I have a lot of Nikon film bodies but no digital now. Let me know when you get your M5! :)
Let us stick to Leica M. It is interesting you like the M5 which for many, including myself, consider as a brick and a failure that almost made Leica go belly up if it had not been for the Toronto factory (Canada) re-inventing the M4 and bringing the M6. PS: an piece of advice regarding the M5, it borrowed its light metering system to the CL and it often fails (mechanically).
I think that you'll find the Kodak sensors used in earlier Leica digital models were the same as the early Olympus, Canon and Panasonic models ... The only difference in the M8 had no IR cut filter on, which makes the sensor / image seem sharper.
The M5s only real issue was the inability to use certain lenses from the collapsible range.
@@kiwipics Thank you for the information John. Sensors may be a little more complex than that (micro-lenses on top of photosites that may differ) which may explain some difference, probably not that great as you rightfully mention it. As for color rendition most of the time we are talking straight out of the camera JPGs and there the software used by the camera manufacturer matters too and may explain the difference even with sensors made by the same manufacturer.
Now coming to the M5, I have used all Ms and could never get used to the size and bulk of the M5, "the brick" ;o). Some of my professional friends that bought it when it came out because it was the first M with an incorporated light-meter promptly sold theirs when the M6 was released. If you buy one, as it will most probably be a used one, make sure the lightmeter works (I remember checking eBay one or two years ago and half that were sold mentioned were described with meter not working, the others with meter working, both quite a proof that there is a problem there) unless you just need a bigger M4-P.
A great drinking game. Every time you hear 'Leica Camera(s)', take a shot.
Haha, if you want to get more drunk watch the latest video and use the word Voigtlander!
Matt do you realise that the Leica 1 you are showing (near Tower Bridge I think) @ 1'24" is not a Rangefinder while you are talking of rangefinders ;o)
Haha thanks Bruno, true.. (I tried to find footage I hadn't deleted of me using a film RF. That bodies does come with the RF attachment but it's not built in so some might call it a RF, others not. I use it without RF for speed.
According to me people goes to Leica for the brand which makes any true photographer dreaming (I mean true photographer not prosumers which are numerous on RUclips), and as you said the fact of owning an item that you love makes you use it and improve your photography just because you use them more. The simplicity is probably the second one which makes you go to the essential, at 100s of miles of Sony complex and too verbose menus and buttons. Finally and I may probably disappoint you , I am convinced by the build quality , not always by the look - I do love the Q or the M and I hate the SL - and not always by the image quality. When you take the same picture with a Fujifilm, a Leica M240 , a Sony and a Nikon (I don t own Canon), according to me it s very difficult to find which camera took which picture so the advantage of Leica is not here… and if you take pictures at 2500 iso the advantage is clearly not there :). But on the same way a Rolex doesn’t t give a more accurate time than a Tissot 20 times cheaper… Anyway I love my Leicas , I use them more than all my other gear and they makes me love taking picture which is the essential…
Thanks Phil! I will try to do more Leica vs X brad videos this year to try to remove the Leica look myth (..is it the lens or the body etc)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I am eager to see them:)
That's all good and dandy but for us common mortals with sh**** wages Leica brand is simply too expensive, unless if we are amateurs who can get some older film Leica for occasional use. Or if we win a lottery...
Hi Tomislav, the older models are a less crazy expensive if you can manage to save a bit each month. (I haven't heated my house for 5 yrs, I still dont own a house, I dont drink, don't smoke, dont have a TV/ netflix, dont eat out, dont party. Yes i'm very boring but it gave me enough money to buy my first Leica). The SL is maybe the best value (M8 and M9 are quite slow now).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom "the older models are a less crazy expensive" - that's the truth, and my only option to buy anything from the M system, but sadly, no matter how much you are saving the money will not help you if you have a kid in the college, in the foreign country on top of that (a huge money pit indeed), unless you are filthy rich to begin with...
@@tomislavmiletic_ Thanks yes understood. Your kid in college is way more important and the cameras will keep getting cheaper year on year.
Once you hold a German made Leica camera you're hooked ! At least I was. Lol 😆
Agree! They have a certain something for sure!
Hasselblad though, if you have Leica money there’s a good chance you also have Hasselblad money…. I like both though
Yes! I didn't mention Hassy with the "Sony,Canon.." comment as I think Hassy are more similar to Leica. I must try to get one to test.
I wonder why Leica Cameras and Leica Lenses are much too expensive, Leica binoculars are about the same price as Zeiss and Swarowski which have as good optical image quality and built quality as Leica !!! Maybe it is like the diamant "mafia", lie as much as you can about the value and people will believe that it is worth it !???
Interesting about the binoculars. Perhaps they are much easier to make than lenses.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom A binocular are a binocular. A camera a camera and a camera Lens a Camera Lens. My guess it that is is more difficult to make a Sony A7-series Camera, than a Leica SL, because the Sony are much more compact, but still the Leica are so much more expensive, it gives no meaning, unless you do want to have over priced things like Gucci. Sony have made some of the most complex Lenses lately and Sony Lenses are no way near the prices of Leica Lenses. You have also tried the excellent Voigtländer APO-Lanthar Lenses that only cost a tiny fraction of Leica Lenses, some fine day customers turn their back to Leica and leave it.
Nice video,
the tape-up guys are ridiculous, just my mind. I also don’t like the posing Leica-owners.
I prefer a non-red-dot Leica, maybe in black paint and a dark leather strip. I alway keep my Leica in my very old looking camera bag, so nobody realize, that I’m using Leica.
Thanks, I love the red straps as I like red but I tend to hide mine away too. (I get the tape for street shooters)
You probably have to take your camera out of the bag in order to use it ;o) Most people, even in Matt's survey, use Leica Ms and just not pose with them or spend their time looking at them. It's an easy caricature that we hear again and again and that we should give up. Regarding numbers, I have seen more "posers" with Canon, Nikon or Sony APS-C cameras and huge tele-photo lenses tor some with the top-of-the-line DSLRs while they only use their for family and vacations pictures than I have seen Leica posers (not that they may not exist but how many have you ever met?) Posers are posers whatever the area the field or object... it has little to do with the area, the field or the object. We can use it as a foot-note but definitely not as a defining argument.
They get to retirement age, sell a kidney on ebay, buy some second hand Leica gear, then realise it was all bollocks, and cry like an indignant child!
Haha thanks Wayne. Leica M cameras are certainly not for everyone and lack all the basic mod cons most people are used to nowadays.
until you have to get it fixed, send to Germany and wait three months without a camera !
Yes, see my previous problems with Leica video!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom this is something people don't tell you about! That's why I prefer a digital with an onshore repair facility. Leica could not guarantee a loaner camera while waiting!
@@slimnics they used to give me loan body in the old (M9) days (before I was on RUclips etc). Not now.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yeh so that's not cool! right now I been shooting with a canon RP and m mount adapted summarit 50 in the street. I think its a pretty good setup, light, quick, but the good thing is its repaired locally by canon within 2 weeks and i get a loaner to use while waiting.
@@slimnics yes great service. You need this if use them for your job.
These attempts to make Leica cameras seem like they’re not an extremely obscure niche product are most amusing. To put it simply, Leica rangefinders were class leading in the mid 20th century. They were literally the best you could buy, and serious pros flocked to them. However, they haven’t changed the design in 75 years, and they’re now essentially obsolete. Leica’s current business model consists of competing with Rolex for the cash of status hungry, wealthy non-photographers by selling increasingly absurd and ridiculous limited editions and wildly over-priced bodies and lenses. It’s no coincidence that basically no serious photographers use Leica equipment, You don’t see the press stands full of SLs - they all use Sony and Canon - and the rangefinders are even less popular. The S was a disaster and quietly sank into the murky depths, and the T and CL were laughable compared to the alternatives makers like Fujifilm offer.
Don’t get me wrong - I don’t hate the original Leica design. I have an M3 and use it regularly. It’s a very enjoyable, nostalgic experience, but when there are serious photos to be taken I do what everybody else does and get a proper camera out…
Thanks Patrick, you bring up some good points that are rarely mentioned quite as clearly as you put it. I don't agree 100% (M's still the most popular by a margain) but it's good to hear a balanced argument. I agree most press photographers need snappy AF setups and better flash options so yes Leica is not suited for this. Glad to hear you love your M3. I always value my film shots over digital but I enjoy the digital Leicas for the work I do. (I think I would very quickly stop photography if I used a auto everything modern consumer camera so in a way these clunky niche Leica keep my passion alive. I can't ask for any more).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I have some great photos I’ve taken with my M3, but far, far more from my Hasselblad. It’s not suitable for everything but that’s where I go when I want all the benefits of film. I do find the current trajectory of Leica as a company very sad to see, and would rather they returned to their utilitarian, Bauhaus roots and made simple, ultra-functional cameras with high build quality at a reasonable price instead of doing cringey collaborations with celebrities and playing silly games with pricing to try to attract the luxury goods clientele.
@@patrickoloan4446 Thanks Patrick. Yes I use Hassy too. There are nice for sure. I find 35mm film better for my portraits currently but I do go through phases of medum format too. (and yes I think in the end people just want "simple, ultra-functional cameras with high build quality at a reasonable price")
You are making some good and obvious point regarding Leica's marketing expansion in the past 20 years under the Kaufmann's brother leadership. It should be remembered that Leica did not take the digital turn very well as they were not equipped for it and their requirements (distance lens / full-frame were unique. They fumbled with the M8 and M9, finally got it better with the M240 with a body that gained a little fat and slow processing, and finally right with the M10 series. Without wealthy "donors" (as we may not be able to call them full-fledged users) Leica manage to survive a present some interesting models that allowed the rangefinder camera to survive and us film M users to transition to digital unequivocally. It is true that the price to pay has been high, the reward being what I just expressed in the previous sentence. I would add that I am grateful for the moneyed ones who bought Leica Ms and probably sold them when the next model was announced as through the years I have equipped myself with pristine used Leicas !
Now regarding Leica being at the top of their game, Canon but most effectively and decidedly Nikon were close on their heels if not ahead. Douglas D. Duncan brought Nikon glass for his Leica that he valued over the Leica lenses he had. Robert Frank photographed a good part of the Americans with a Leica III and a Nikon 5 cm f 1.4; he also used a Nikon 85 mm f 1.5. Both Japanese manufacturers stopped RF productions with their SLRs (as the Nikon SP is probably one of the most advance RF ever combining both Contax (bayonet mount and focusing system) and Leica know-how and adding excellent glass.
Design: why change a design if it good and functional?? They tried with the R8 and R9, definitely innovative but coming late and not that successful in terms of marketing shares, it is probable that the R6 / R6.2 sold more.
Believe me, and I have used both (Fuji X pros, X100, X-Es and Leica CL), the CL is far from being laughable. For me its design (the function buttons) is the best on the market, the most efficient even if to be tamed at first. The CL has that tactile experience that the Fujis do not have and although Fuji offers more (and cheaper) lenses whose quality cannot be doubted I still settled for my CL over 3 generations of X Pros with all their bells and whistles and useless "film simulations" (at least for a seasoned photographer).
You are totally right, as many others are, about the pricing of Leica equipment, especially Ms (and I'll give some details below) but saying that " It’s no coincidence that basically no serious photographers use Leica equipment," is actually wrong. Many serious photographers do or will. Granted not as many as used to (Salgado moved from Leica to Canon and then Pentax medium format), Joel Meyerowitz moved from Leica M to 8x10 Deardorff and then back to digital Leica M, many Magnum photographers, old and young, use Leica Ms and I suppose they all go under "serious photographers." I would think of Matt or Benj Haisch as serious RUclipsrs photographers... they both use Leicas.
Now the big and real argument: cost. I did a little research and happened to have two copies of "US Camera" magazine one from 1960 and the other from 1961. I looked at prices: in 1960 an M3 + 50 mm Summicron cost around $230 (= and $ 2,300 today)-now the latest M6 with a 50 mm Summicron is around $ 8300, an M10(-P) with the same lens around $ 10,000 so prices have roughly been multiplied by 4 in real cost ; in 1961 (as the SLRs including the Nikon F were not on the US market before the end of 1960) a Contarex (first Conrad SLR) with a Planar 50 mm f2 cost $ 450 (almost twice the M3 combo); a Nikon F + 50 mm f 2 was a $ 330 (almost 50% more than the M3+50); a Bronica 6x6 with an 80 mm f 2.8 (Nikon) was a $ 490. SLRs were the latest technology then and R&D had to be paid off but still.
What can be said is that Dr Kaufmann has revived the Leica brand and paid for it (and German skill and labor... not the same cost as in the Philipinnes or China) with an increase in developing the legendary heritage and "image" of the brand (walk into a Leica store... it does not look like a corner store at all, neither Jessops nor B&H, and they stayed in spite of COVID and Leica being a small manufacturer compared to the competition (except Hasselblad that has the same issues)!!! Under Kaufmman Leica has operated a "diversification" of the audience ;o) also aiming at the luxury and exclusive market, and all of these, all, have generated an increase in price. Now there are still the non exclusive series and the used market for the rest of us. An admitted extraordinary increase in price has not decreased the unique experience and qualities of a Leica M and the meticulousness with which the products are assembled. Now it always comes down to a matter of values and choice. Even if it took me years to be able to afford my first used Leica, I have no regret and Leica Ms are my go-to cameras (which does not mean I do not, from time to time, use others when they are required but definitely not with the same anticipation and pleasure).
PS: when there is a serious photographed to be taken, I still take my Leica M and zoom with my feet! But I understand this do not apply to micro-photography, wild life and some sports (not all though) but these are not my types of serious "photography". The point here being "know your tools and use the ones that you need," Leica Ms are no Swiss knife just good paring ones and that is the one I use most of the time in the kitchen. It goes with the kind of cooking I do. ;o)
I’m sure they are good cameras but every digital m camera that’s come out has had serious from the factory they had to solve. other manufacturers of cameras seldom have. So unless it’s your business or have two for backup or rich I would never trust those cameras as a hobbyist
Thanks, yes fair point regarding the latest release
maybe for the M... but I can assure you my SL2-S is a TANK!!! Dropped twice on cement, once while running up stairs to get a shot... still works 100% perfect. Whether or not it's worth it over another mirrorless equivalent on the market can be debated, but the reliability and the construction of the SL series is insane and the only thing I can think of that comes close is the canon 1Dx series cameras and the Nikon Z9.
@Jona T I know it has specifications specifically for leica, but myself I think of it as a panasonic camera built for leica.
Um, the M9 had a total shit sensor.
So there is that.
Thanks hah, true - I did put a mention of that on the screen. The images from the M9 are fantastic but you have to find a good sensor and then still have the risk.
This is like asking why Ford Mondeo owners don't buy Bentleys.
Ha thanks Paul.. my goal is to make a video for Mondeo owners to help people understand why some people drive a Bentley
Not exactly, a Leica M is more of a tool used by far many more people, sometimes regardless of revenue, than any Bentley. It is the same easy caricature... do we need another utterance of it?
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Lol..... Have you seen this? ruclips.net/video/VURmVIvTFWw/видео.html
@@BrunoChalifour Perhaps you're right.... ;)
@@sputumtube Who knows... ;o)
Get a Rolex sub watch to go with your Leica and then you can be totally afraid to go out.
Haha thanks Neil. I try not to hang around the dodgy places so then I can use the Leicas without issue. If not I have my awesome Kiev 4s as backup!
Or get a used Leica... there are plenty of them.
I do
:)
Your plant needs to stop shaking
Ha sorry, I stood up for this one so I had the plant elevated so it was in the frame! I think when I moved the floor vibrated.
Lastly waaaaaay to expensive
My SL is cheaper than new Sony/Nikon/Lumix etc.. but yes the new ones are overpriced
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom But I would love to have one though, that fullframe rangefinder is actually quite attractive. perfect for shooting Vintages and (d)Slr lenses, which is 35 mm. Although they can be quite good, the resolution of vintages lenses are not really made for high pixel density of Aps-c sensors. They were made for the demands of 35 mm film.
It has been up for eleven days and you still not editing false statement as of Leica making only digital rangefinder. Well, your credibility score just went to zero.
Hi Kostya, thanks. Yes correct Leica make mirrorless too. I mention in most videos that I use the M, CL, SL, Q so people know that Leica are not limited to digital RF cameras. If you read the link blog post it also says this. Perhaps you missed it. (Videos can't be edited once live FYI*)
Leica isn't better. On most "objective" metrics, Leica loses. And that is a fact. All those of you like Leica, surely that should be enough.
Thanks, yes I think each brand has it's loyal followers. Leica has perhaps 1/5 of functions of most popular brands but I think people like them for their many limitations.
Have you ever owned and used a Leica for some period of time? Where does a Leica M lose on being a unique range-finder? Why do so many very efficient, result and quality driven professional photographers have been using Leica range-finders since the 1930s? These are also objective metrics that deserve to be considered. You may not be using your long-view from the right side ;0) Say I do. not own a Leica, I have no intention of acquiring one... for whatever reason, that might be enough too. ;o)
@@BrunoChalifour How many professionals use it compared to others? It's a drop in the ocean. And that's the only objective metric you brought up. Rest is all subjective. So is Leica 'BETTER' than the rest - of course not. So why the need to say or prove this at all?
Maybe for believers in the "Leica religion", but I am no believer of that religion 😎
Thanks, yes I know Leica is not for everyone but I was interested to see why others use Leica :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I know a lot of both professional and hobby photographers, only one of them use Leica now. Some of them used to use Leica R Cameras, but now they use Sony, Canon and Nikon. I think if Leica years ago had made a full frame digital Camera with Leica R mount, then there would have been more Leica users now, maybe even me, I still have some of my Leica R Lenses, which works great on my Sony Cameras. I am very happy with my Sony Cameras now.
Fetichism is not a religion ;o) just a perversion ;o) You are amusing, go further I am giving you tools.
I genuinely avoid gear reviews but I have to be honest and say you have sold me my Nikon f100 my Kiev 4 and I find myself thinking constantly that my life needs an m3
I should unsubscribe your hurting my finances
He has done that to me too. He pushed me into an SL and as much as I wanted to say Aha it sucks, I actually love it. Dang you Osborne! 🤣
Thanks Austen! Kiev 4 - still love it.. bought a new lens so video will come at some point. F100 was amazing but until my eyes need AF I went back to older smaller models (FM2/FE2 etc). M3 - at least you can try and if not like it sell for the same price.. but warning.. you will like it so plan for that in advance! :) ..M3 is the 1 camera you can pass on to the next generation :)
Haha thanks Pete, guilty as charged. I have many wives that probably hate me.. but at least you bought the right camera first time and my million messages to you than the S5 and then would need to buy twice ;)
speak up!
Thanks Chuck, i'm doing my best to improve my terrible speaking (40+ years of happily being the quiet one in the corner and now I need to use my voice). The end of the audio was clipping as too loud so I dropped the volume but then the rest was quieter.. either way I need to speak up so thanks for the nudge. Work in progress.