Clearly you don't know anything about racing. Torque is fundamental to a fast race car. The s2000's maximum torque is also at 7,500rpm, which is shocking. So even if you're at 6k, you're not hitting max torque for another 1500 RPMs.
clocktower7 exactly! When Honda bring turbo on their new "type R" it was the end from what i call "the real type R spirit"!!! light cars, (NA) atmospheric and powerfull motor, perfect LSD (differential), motricity, and suspensions! Since the Civic FK2, its a other Edge of "type R" but their arent Bad but for me who have since 2001 my integra type R DC2 and now a S2000 AP1 ...hhhhhhh...its not the same thing (OK i m a fkn purist!)
2:02 cheap plastic cause Mugen (and other tuners) doesn't messwith interior ergonomics, it's performance, same with stiff suspension, tuners make the fastest possible cars out of what they have, not a "road-friendly" car. Geez, tuners build fast cars, not comfy cars!
Seriously lol It's meant to be a race car. It has only what it needs to drive fast and they don't get that. And I'm assuming by "cheap plastic" they mean all of the real carbon fiber they used to make the car so light lol I dream of owning one of these someday. They are beautiful cars.
The way the Japanese build performance cars is to be as lightweight and agile as possible, preferably with a high-revving NA engine with extra throttle response, along with an slightly oversteery balance at the limit.
When he says Honda's fastest rear wheel drive car is the S2000. He is correct. You guys have to remember they did say the fastest Honda you can buy in the UK market meaning (car that is still in production) the NSX went out of production in 2005. So it is excluded, that's why they didn't bring it up.
@PAC0TAC0 its not so much the power gain of the exhaust on the s2k but also remember a full titanium exhaust can save up to 35 lbs in weight compared to stock.
The mugen RR is developed with engine body and interior racing components whereas the s2000 is not, is basicaly stock, we all know the the s2k has a better chasi and is the touge monster. Dudes this comparison is not fair.
Kimata Aoto What does that even mean? You can't just make up false things to prove a random quote in a car review. Everything your comment said was incorrect. People would laugh at you if they heard you say that a Civic is FR. What he meant by that is probably the fastest rear wheel drive Honda they've tested on their course. Either that, or he misspoke.
Evan he means that the max power of the car is delivered at higher rpm in the s2000. meaning the RR puts down its max power and a lower rpm even though it revs to 9000.
Here in the UK all of the engines are the F20C. We got the facelift in '04 but the chassis code still starts with AP1 & all the engines rev to 9K. In fact, I've never seen a f22 here in the UK!
@narlycharley i would agree except for the handling part. do you really think celica which was designed more than 12 years ago can handle better than mugen honda designed and built couple of years at most? and i'm not hating, i own a turboed GT myself, but i'm just being realistic here.
In greasy conditions, the R26R did the lap in 46 secs. The Mugen RR did the same lap in 42.8 secs in dry conditions. Does the Mugen RR have a chance against the R26R in a head to head battle?
i mean it might not be anymore powerful but it might corner better and have better stability because its tuned. and because it doesnt give up any on accelleration i believe both of them are about the same to 60 about give or take a tenth or two but you would never know that in a pull in 2nd or 3rd gear where it matters on a track
@dottorrent There are 2 different S2000's though the AP1 and AP2 so that's still spread out over those years. Also yes they stoped making it. And this Mugen RR is no longer for sale. It was a limited time deal and they all sold out within 10 minutes.
i wish it was sold in the us as a right hand drive car instead of left and on a winding track with lots of turns and windings...........do u think this car could be compared to a wrx sti.........what would u guys choose
I hate having a stock car and that's something I've never been into. I am only 19 and just saving up money. I have a VW Golf right now only a 1.4 as it is my first car and insurance is hard to pay for. I am currently saving up for a MK4 GTI which i want to mod/tune it to the way I like not too much outer trim as I do like originality but more under the hood stuff. I was also thinking in the future maybe as a second car to just have a CL1 Accord. I love them.
This CivicRR sells truly in your country? When exchange calculation of the Japanese price is done simply, it is US$61000, GBP39000, and EUR46800. Transportation cost and specification change are required. In practice, it will become a heavy price further. He still buys it?
I just hope that after they release the NSX, Honda will get busy making an S2000 successor. 10 years without changes is a wee bit to much, even for such a beast as S2k
It's the later C32B engine that didn't have VTEC, which came in 97. Point still stands that the first NSX had VTEC. Maybe that's what you were talking about?
The hatchback is a REAL hottie.. I saw some picture of one somewhere (not sure if it was a prototype). Can anyone tell me why the S2000 engine is so heavy compared to a Toyota VVT unit. For such a short stroke engine, with little effective torque, you'd expect them to make as many weight savings as possible to even to the powertrain...
i wonder how the american spec ap2 with the F22c would fare considering its first four gears are a bit closer and it does have a more manageable powerband ... it is a bit quicker than the euro spec ap2 with the f20c
yes technically it's not stock, but it's still consider stock if you can buy it like that from the dealership. same for the Dodge Viper Hennessey Venom 1000, technically it's not stock, but since you can buy it like that straight from the dealership then it's considered stock.
I think he meant at the time this episode was made. The Mugen RR came out in 09. This episode probably came out in 10.The last NSX to roll out of Honda was 05.
@ s2kbaris the Mugen rr version is 2200cc from the factory, actualy its the K20 with a stroker kit and a bit more tweaks and tuning, see the link below www.motorauthority.com/news/1025510_mugen-type-rr-experimental-spec-2-2l-k20a-engine
As has already been pointed out the F20C is in that car, not the F22 that is avaialble to the USDM. Regardless, pitting stock against modified isn't a good comparison, but then again, even at £30,000 the RR is cheaper than an S2k with the work done.
the hondas that i love the 2005 honda nsx r gt the honda s2000 and the old honda civic type r which was made from the year 2000 those are the only ones i love its because its still has that spirit of racing bro you tune those three cars and they will be like a rocket flying out of the sky
@Texarmageddon true. many honda's here in the philippines that have been used for two decades now and are still in good driving condition. considering how bad our traffic is.
They werent talking about engine placement, they only mentioned drive wheels. And Wesley Tang; they Don't care about the NSX here since "the fastest honda you can buy on the UK market" is their s2000gt.
@XxSuzaku Its like an Mercedes AMG.... its still a Honda, but tunned for street speeding... You still can get much more out of the Mugen, if you tune it.
he said that about Civiс RR, not the s2k. the s2k was already out of the production line by the time the RR was released. and who said you cant buy an NSX still? there is plenty forsale so if you wanna play the "but he was talking about what car is sale card"... you lose.
@juszap the s2000 from factory is pretty much at the limit already unless you go forced induction or itbs and even with itbs and a GREAT i mean GREAT tune you can net 300ish and this is with internals as well. the fact is the f20c or the 22c is the best it can be for a stock engine
but come to think of it, the civic is quite pushed to the limit(am talking about tuning here) compared to the S2000 which is completely stock. I think, if mugen will put the same amount of modification to the S2000 the result would be very different.
very true i will agree with you it is a somewhat small course but i have seen small evos almost roll on courses like this... You just never can expect the unexpected you know...
I am also 19 and my car isnt fast either. Its a 1.6 economic-vtec ep2 civic. slow in the straight, but fun in the corners. Its also just clean. I am also saving up for a new car currently. Aiming for a Integra DC2. There arent much around of these accords in germany. IMO think about a concept, do it, and leave it as it is afterwards. A car is nothing without balance. And everything has an impact on the car-behavior.
Clearly the S2000 is a much more fun car to drive! Rear wheel drive and 9200 RPM's is the reason! but both of them are like Kings of their category! Just listen to those engine scream! Amazing! I love Honda's! True Car spirit!
Great vid. I own an S2k - sad to see it get trounced by that civic :-p They should have used the Clubsport version of the S2k, little bit less weight and stiffer suspension, would probably even out the odds.
And the vid of the white stock FD2R vs a yellow stock S2000 around a track by best motoring/vtec club? Didn't a stock FD2R also beat a Type S S2K around Tsukuba with a Mugen RR and the Modulo FD2R? I cannot find any stats on the FD2R, but what I do know is the stock DC5R in the 1/4 is as fast as the average S2K and the FD2R is faster than a DC5R. I cannot imagine that the FD2R is slower than the S2K except in top speed.. But show me figures if you have them.
@Corey Jones the S2000 was built as a sports car from the ground up, while the Civic base model is built as an economy sedan, and the Type R is just a tuned version of that. Even the non-Mugen type R base model is faster than a stock S2000, but you also have to consider it is 7 years newer (better materials and tyre technology, better engine and brakes as well). Also the S2000 has a weight penalty because it is a convertible. Rear wheel drive cars are for the most part quicker because there are no real fwd sports cars. All fwd cars are based on econoboxes with suspension geometry and tire sizes optimized for space efficiency and daily usability. Rwd cars on the other hand are often enginered as pure sports cars, so they allow for better weight distribution, lower center of gravity and more space allocated for a good suspension layout and stiff body construction.
+HolySteel If you've ever driven any of Honda type r models you would not be making that comment. They may have been sold for the economy market but nothing about a type r feels like an economy car.
+likethetubeman I have owned a DC2 Integra Type R for a few years, so it's not like I don't know what they feel like or are capable of. That doesn't change the fact that they are limited by their base models. Sure, you can tune a fwd car to be very sporty, change the engine, brakes and suspension, maybe throw out some weight and fit bigger tires. But you are still limited by what the base car was designed for in terms of components layout, suspension and engine mounting points, weight distribution and cabin space. Take the new FK2R as an example. Completely redesigned front and rear suspension, but you can't put the engine farther back (-> less rotational inertia) or move the fuel tank to the rear (-> lower center of gravity) because how the body of the base model was built (Jazz/Fit platform). Even if you remove the rear seats, you are left with a large hollow box which inherently raises the c.o.g., coefficient of drag and total weight. On many RWD sportscars, those compromises don't have to be made, because they are designed as a sports car from the ground up, I'm not talking about something like a BMW 2 series but rather something like an RX7 or a Porsche Cayman, maybe even a radical or an ariel atom. There are no comparable fwd cars because they are all based on econoboxes. A true fwd sportscar would be very interesting imo, but I doubt any manufacturer would want to take a risk like that.
I had a feeling you would say you owned a type r after I said this. Idk about the fk2, but nothing about a dc2 type r is economy. I owned an Integra and even the base models are very similar to the type r minus a few bracings. I challenge you to find out one part of that car that was built as an economy car and lets see some proof of this dc2 you claimed to own.
+likethetubeman i.imgur.com/tkfRFG8.jpg there you go. The DC2 shares its base layout and suspension geometry with the EG Civic, and while it is well thought out, it is not a bespoke sports car. The suspension geometry was designed for the ride height, weight distribution and tire sizes of the base model EG Civics, so Honda needed to work around that on the DC2. Which they did a great job in, I think the DC2 Type R feels sharper than a base model NSX and I haven't driven anything which comes close to its throttle response. The on limit handling with stock suspension is also really well balanced, you can steer the car with only throttle inputs in some corners, which is lots of fun. Manufacturers have really learned to work around the limitations of economy car based fwd cars, the FD2 was already quicker around Suzuka Circuit than many JDM legends like the R34 GT-R Vspec, RX7 FD3s, NSX base model and Evo 6. The new FK2R's Nürburgring time is faster than the Porsche 996 GT3 driven bei Walter Röhrl. I still wish for a true FWD sportscar that's built on its own platform.
but he is talking about that is in production and is for sale so the most powerful FR Honda for sale what he means for sale is on the Honda market that is still being produced just connect the the two comparisons
Love the RR. For people that are comparing the performance to cost ratio it's a COLLECTORS ITEM. This is the car you'll see at the Barrett-Jackson Auction in 50 years selling for 6 figures.
@Inuyashatg98 I love the way you put "if that is so" as if it's in any way disputed. Go on then, please list the racing championships that you've won since you clearly feel you're a better driver than Plato!
yeah, your'e right. in america the acura NSX ended in 2005 just like the acura integra ended production in 2001. but wait, we're talking about honda here, not acura. so youre wrong. they still make the Honda NSX.
correction, in the USA the NSX is acura but in every other country it is Honda that is why in most other country u will not find Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, or even Scion Only in the USA will you find "parent" automakers
f20c engine s2000 released 1999, f22c engine(bored out) ap2 revamp in 2003/04.. true 50/50 weight distribution 2005, further suspension tuning 2006, s2000 CR release 2007/08.. some people like RWD s2000, some hate the torque of 2.0/2.2 (hence why people do the ls engine swap) people like the unpredictable characteristics (9000 RPM) of the ap1, some like the refined ap2. the ap2 is statistically better on paper and it shows on the track. but i still say that the operator can make the difference. (and that is true for any vehicle) B16 engine Civic type r 1998, k20 engine gen 2 type r 2000/01, k20 engine gen 3 type r 2005/06, civic mugen rr release in 2007/08. some people love responsive throttle from FWD layout and not to mention year round driveability(including winter snow/ice) FWD's definitely do shine on small handling courses, but the open road and high speeds truly affects the performance. I wonder how they would differ at the nurburgring.
It's true. Honda needs to make their base models at the very least 2 liter DOHC iVTEC with Direct Fuel Injection. Get rid of the plastic insides and add better suspension and steering control. (Bose surround sound wouldn't be a bad idea for an option, just saying) They also need to get rid of the EX-L and just make that the EX, Get rid of the Si and replace it with the Mugen R.
Why complain of a lack of torque? you're on a race track, if the revs drop below 6000 at any point your're driving that Honda badly!
Steve Langdon lmao so true😂😂
@@giorgosk2884 But it sacrifices torque for fuel economy right?
Clearly you don't know anything about racing. Torque is fundamental to a fast race car. The s2000's maximum torque is also at 7,500rpm, which is shocking. So even if you're at 6k, you're not hitting max torque for another 1500 RPMs.
Enjoy the last of the naturally aspirated Honda Type R VTEC engines! Take my word for it.... Turbo has killed the VTEC Star!!
clocktower7 exactly! When Honda bring turbo on their new "type R" it was the end from what i call "the real type R spirit"!!! light cars, (NA) atmospheric and powerfull motor, perfect LSD (differential), motricity, and suspensions! Since the Civic FK2, its a other Edge of "type R" but their arent Bad but for me who have since 2001 my integra type R DC2 and now a S2000 AP1 ...hhhhhhh...its not the same thing (OK i m a fkn purist!)
2:02 cheap plastic cause Mugen (and other tuners) doesn't messwith interior ergonomics, it's performance, same with stiff suspension, tuners make the fastest possible cars out of what they have, not a "road-friendly" car. Geez, tuners build fast cars, not comfy cars!
Seriously lol It's meant to be a race car. It has only what it needs to drive fast and they don't get that. And I'm assuming by "cheap plastic" they mean all of the real carbon fiber they used to make the car so light lol I dream of owning one of these someday. They are beautiful cars.
+AJ VanGorden I already have 1 fd2r in Singapore lol. But sadly, it's life is gonna end at 2018. I'm going to get a evo 10 next
The way the Japanese build performance cars is to be as lightweight and agile as possible, preferably with a high-revving NA engine with extra throttle response, along with an slightly oversteery balance at the limit.
When he says Honda's fastest rear wheel drive car is the S2000. He is correct.
You guys have to remember they did say the fastest Honda you can buy in the UK market meaning (car that is still in production) the NSX went out of production in 2005. So it is excluded, that's why they didn't bring it up.
He's a Touring car driver, and they're all FWD (xcept for the bimmers & he drivers Seats). He's actually won the BTCC couple of years ago...
@PAC0TAC0 its not so much the power gain of the exhaust on the s2k but also remember a full titanium exhaust can save up to 35 lbs in weight compared to stock.
Would love a Mugen RR
The S2000 is a standard spec road car with no upgraded suspension or tweeks .a fine car but not really a comparison .
Exactly! The balance at and beyond the limits of grip! Glad to see someone on RUclips that understands this. Cheers mate.
The mugen RR is developed with engine body and interior racing components whereas the s2000 is not, is basicaly stock, we all know the the s2k has a better chasi and is the touge monster. Dudes this comparison is not fair.
"Fastest rear-wheel drive Honda"
What about the NSX?
Kimata Aoto what do you mean Civic is FR? All Civics are FF. S2000 is MR (front biased), and the NSX is traditional MR.
Kimata Aoto What does that even mean? You can't just make up false things to prove a random quote in a car review. Everything your comment said was incorrect. People would laugh at you if they heard you say that a Civic is FR. What he meant by that is probably the fastest rear wheel drive Honda they've tested on their course. Either that, or he misspoke.
Maybe fastest RWD honda on sale now, since NSX has long gone
radityainderas now at that time of course not 2014
Kimata Aoto
RR is just a name, all Civics are front-engined, front-drive (FF)
Evan he means that the max power of the car is delivered at higher rpm in the s2000. meaning the RR puts down its max power and a lower rpm even though it revs to 9000.
The high compression ratio is what makes the power, not the VTEC. Most modern cars have some sort of variable valve timing.
Here in the UK all of the engines are the F20C. We got the facelift in '04 but the chassis code still starts with AP1 & all the engines rev to 9K. In fact, I've never seen a f22 here in the UK!
I wanna see the Mugen RR vs the Renault R26R. Have these two cars been matched? Which is faster?
Not a fair test. FD Type R is track-tuned. I think there is a S2K track special in the US, right?
That mugen rr is too nice..just listen to that VTEC engine.!!!!!!!!
Both cars are amazing but if i choose one for enjoy it, i choose the S2000 :)
@narlycharley i would agree except for the handling part. do you really think celica which was designed more than 12 years ago can handle better than mugen honda designed and built couple of years at most? and i'm not hating, i own a turboed GT myself, but i'm just being realistic here.
In greasy conditions, the R26R did the lap in 46 secs. The Mugen RR did the same lap in 42.8 secs in dry conditions. Does the Mugen RR have a chance against the R26R in a head to head battle?
@yagam1 they are talking about cars that are currently for sale. the nsx is not a production car any more.
i mean it might not be anymore powerful but it might corner better and have better stability because its tuned. and because it doesnt give up any on accelleration i believe both of them are about the same to 60 about give or take a tenth or two but you would never know that in a pull in 2nd or 3rd gear where it matters on a track
@dottorrent There are 2 different S2000's though the AP1 and AP2 so that's still spread out over those years. Also yes they stoped making it. And this Mugen RR is no longer for sale. It was a limited time deal and they all sold out within 10 minutes.
10 years with the same design it was about time
being a touring car driver, you gotta say, plato has to be the best at testing really quick front wheel drive cars
i wish it was sold in the us as a right hand drive car instead of left and on a winding track with lots of turns and windings...........do u think this car could be compared to a wrx sti.........what would u guys choose
@welc13
it's not just the mugen that has aggressive springs, the stock fd2r is stiffer than the s2k is and will out run the s2k on the track as well.
@Descipleofchrist101 Correction, Mugen R Turbo. And don't be afraid to use Carbon fiber for the Chassis...
I hate having a stock car and that's something I've never been into. I am only 19 and just saving up money. I have a VW Golf right now only a 1.4 as it is my first car and insurance is hard to pay for. I am currently saving up for a MK4 GTI which i want to mod/tune it to the way I like not too much outer trim as I do like originality but more under the hood stuff. I was also thinking in the future maybe as a second car to just have a CL1 Accord. I love them.
This CivicRR sells truly in your country?
When exchange calculation of the Japanese price is done simply, it is US$61000, GBP39000, and EUR46800.
Transportation cost and specification change are required.
In practice, it will become a heavy price further.
He still buys it?
Renault Megane R26R VS Mugen RR? Does the RR have a chance?
@mets558 The rear wing is to keep the rear of the car planted at speed.
do you not get nsx type r's in the uk?
I just hope that after they release the NSX, Honda will get busy making an S2000 successor. 10 years without changes is a wee bit to much, even for such a beast as S2k
I would have to say depending on how it's tuned. If stock? Yes.
@dottorrent it isn't. s2000 went off-line last year-it isn't and hasn't been in production for many months now...
Man, Honda's engines sound fantastic! Nothing under the $100k price sound as good as their I4 and V6 engines.
It's the later C32B engine that didn't have VTEC, which came in 97. Point still stands that the first NSX had VTEC. Maybe that's what you were talking about?
The hatchback is a REAL hottie.. I saw some picture of one somewhere (not sure if it was a prototype). Can anyone tell me why the S2000 engine is so heavy compared to a Toyota VVT unit. For such a short stroke engine, with little effective torque, you'd expect them to make as many weight savings as possible to even to the powertrain...
i wonder how the american spec ap2 with the F22c would fare considering its first four gears are a bit closer and it does have a more manageable powerband ... it is a bit quicker than the euro spec ap2 with the f20c
yes technically it's not stock, but it's still consider stock if you can buy it like that from the dealership.
same for the Dodge Viper Hennessey Venom 1000, technically it's not stock, but since you can buy it like that straight from the dealership then it's considered stock.
mugen is amazing
@XxSuzaku its not a factor of what was tuned and what wasnt its power to weight ratios
dream car :(
I think he meant at the time this episode was made. The Mugen RR came out in 09. This episode probably came out in 10.The last NSX to roll out of Honda was 05.
Spoon S2000 vs this RR would be an awesome comparison ;)
@ s2kbaris the Mugen rr version is 2200cc from the factory, actualy its the
K20 with a stroker kit and a bit more tweaks and tuning, see the link below
www.motorauthority.com/news/1025510_mugen-type-rr-experimental-spec-2-2l-k20a-engine
No, the S2000 has the F20C and the F22C in later models. civics use the K20. Somewhat similar though i'd imagine.
As has already been pointed out the F20C is in that car, not the F22 that is avaialble to the USDM.
Regardless, pitting stock against modified isn't a good comparison, but then again, even at £30,000 the RR is cheaper than an S2k with the work done.
@IDUBSI i think they ment fasted car that is still being produced and sold in honda dealership
the hondas that i love the 2005 honda nsx r gt the honda s2000 and the old honda civic type r which was made from the year 2000 those are the only ones i love its because its still has that spirit of racing bro you tune those three cars and they will be like a rocket flying out of the sky
@Texarmageddon true. many honda's here in the philippines that have been used for two decades now and are still in good driving condition. considering how bad our traffic is.
They werent talking about engine placement, they only mentioned drive wheels. And Wesley Tang; they Don't care about the NSX here since "the fastest honda you can buy on the UK market" is their s2000gt.
@XxSuzaku Its like an Mercedes AMG.... its still a Honda, but tunned for street speeding... You still can get much more out of the Mugen, if you tune it.
thats true
but can u buy them NEW nowadays??
Just goes to show that suspension is everything around a track, and that even an FF can beat an FR around a track with the right setup.
Apparently you don't know the difference.
The NSX was ONLY sold as an Acura model in North America and Hong Kong.
How about we compare the MUGEN s2000 with the Mugen Civic RR. Seems to make a bit more sense to me.
Mugen Civiс RR or Evo X Mr ?
he said that about Civiс RR, not the s2k. the s2k was already out of the production line by the time the RR was released. and who said you cant buy an NSX still? there is plenty forsale so if you wanna play the "but he was talking about what car is sale card"... you lose.
I saw one of these in Toronto the other day
sweetest thing I've ever seen
@juszap the s2000 from factory is pretty much at the limit already unless you go forced induction or itbs and even with itbs and a GREAT i mean GREAT tune you can net 300ish and this is with internals as well. the fact is the f20c or the 22c is the best it can be for a stock engine
@R35Agustin1 never, it's a JDM exclusive. All type R's are JDM only.
the Mugen RR is awesome, i love the VTEC sound from it.
true, a car too light may be fast but may also be unsafe too.
The NSX had been out of production for years when this was filmed, I think he meant the fastest new Honda you can buy.
Yea, I was thinking the same thing, they deff should have pinned the RR against the CR.
Don't know if the CR was out when they filmed this.
but come to think of it, the civic is quite pushed to the limit(am talking about tuning here) compared to the S2000 which is completely stock. I think, if mugen will put the same amount of modification to the S2000 the result would be very different.
very true i will agree with you it is a somewhat small course but i have seen small evos almost roll on courses like this... You just never can expect the unexpected you know...
Honda; high revs, high comp, high power N/A engines :P
I am also 19 and my car isnt fast either. Its a 1.6 economic-vtec ep2 civic. slow in the straight, but fun in the corners. Its also just clean. I am also saving up for a new car currently. Aiming for a Integra DC2. There arent much around of these accords in germany. IMO think about a concept, do it, and leave it as it is afterwards. A car is nothing without balance. And everything has an impact on the car-behavior.
supposedly mazdaspeed vehicles were limited in production but i dont think the speed3 were... id take boost over vtec anyday
@Matt Dang The first car to use VTEC was the 89 Integra XSi.
I really wish they sold those mugens here in the us... I know so many people that would fall in love with them
Clearly the S2000 is a much more fun car to drive! Rear wheel drive and 9200 RPM's is the reason! but both of them are like Kings of their category!
Just listen to those engine scream! Amazing!
I love Honda's! True Car spirit!
Thanks for this one!
Yes it is the NSX, but he said the fastest RWD honda you can currently buy in the UK
Great vid. I own an S2k - sad to see it get trounced by that civic :-p They should have used the Clubsport version of the S2k, little bit less weight and stiffer suspension, would probably even out the odds.
No its on Channel 5 int he uk the show is called "Fifth Gear"
And the vid of the white stock FD2R vs a yellow stock S2000 around a track by best motoring/vtec club? Didn't a stock FD2R also beat a Type S S2K around Tsukuba with a Mugen RR and the Modulo FD2R?
I cannot find any stats on the FD2R, but what I do know is the stock DC5R in the 1/4 is as fast as the average S2K and the FD2R is faster than a DC5R.
I cannot imagine that the FD2R is slower than the S2K except in top speed..
But show me figures if you have them.
I think he means that it was still for sale new unlike the NSX
Does it make me cheap if I have a Subie and a Honda?
@Corey Jones the S2000 was built as a sports car from the ground up, while the Civic base model is built as an economy sedan, and the Type R is just a tuned version of that.
Even the non-Mugen type R base model is faster than a stock S2000, but you also have to consider it is 7 years newer (better materials and tyre technology, better engine and brakes as well). Also the S2000 has a weight penalty because it is a convertible.
Rear wheel drive cars are for the most part quicker because there are no real fwd sports cars.
All fwd cars are based on econoboxes with suspension geometry and tire sizes optimized for space efficiency and daily usability.
Rwd cars on the other hand are often enginered as pure sports cars, so they allow for better weight distribution, lower center of gravity and more space allocated for a good suspension layout and stiff body construction.
+HolySteel If you've ever driven any of Honda type r models you would not be making that comment. They may have been sold for the economy market but nothing about a type r feels like an economy car.
+likethetubeman I have owned a DC2 Integra Type R for a few years, so it's not like I don't know what they feel like or are capable of. That doesn't change the fact that they are limited by their base models.
Sure, you can tune a fwd car to be very sporty, change the engine, brakes and suspension, maybe throw out some weight and fit bigger tires. But you are still limited by what the base car was designed for in terms of components layout, suspension and engine mounting points, weight distribution and cabin space.
Take the new FK2R as an example. Completely redesigned front and rear suspension, but you can't put the engine farther back (-> less rotational inertia) or move the fuel tank to the rear (-> lower center of gravity) because how the body of the base model was built (Jazz/Fit platform). Even if you remove the rear seats, you are left with a large hollow box which inherently raises the c.o.g., coefficient of drag and total weight.
On many RWD sportscars, those compromises don't have to be made, because they are designed as a sports car from the ground up, I'm not talking about something like a BMW 2 series but rather something like an RX7 or a Porsche Cayman, maybe even a radical or an ariel atom. There are no comparable fwd cars because they are all based on econoboxes.
A true fwd sportscar would be very interesting imo, but I doubt any manufacturer would want to take a risk like that.
I had a feeling you would say you owned a type r after I said this. Idk about the fk2, but nothing about a dc2 type r is economy. I owned an Integra and even the base models are very similar to the type r minus a few bracings. I challenge you to find out one part of that car that was built as an economy car and lets see some proof of this dc2 you claimed to own.
+likethetubeman i.imgur.com/tkfRFG8.jpg there you go. The DC2 shares its base layout and suspension geometry with the EG Civic, and while it is well thought out, it is not a bespoke sports car. The suspension geometry was designed for the ride height, weight distribution and tire sizes of the base model EG Civics, so Honda needed to work around that on the DC2.
Which they did a great job in, I think the DC2 Type R feels sharper than a base model NSX and I haven't driven anything which comes close to its throttle response. The on limit handling with stock suspension is also really well balanced, you can steer the car with only throttle inputs in some corners, which is lots of fun.
Manufacturers have really learned to work around the limitations of economy car based fwd cars, the FD2 was already quicker around Suzuka Circuit than many JDM legends like the R34 GT-R Vspec, RX7 FD3s, NSX base model and Evo 6. The new FK2R's Nürburgring time is faster than the Porsche 996 GT3 driven bei Walter Röhrl. I still wish for a true FWD sportscar that's built on its own platform.
he mentioned the RR about being too plastic....its the 8th gen civic that is plastic. So its not a "negative" for me.
but he is talking about that is in production and is for sale so the most powerful FR Honda for sale what he means for sale is on the Honda market that is still being produced just connect the the two comparisons
Did he say what the engine is in the Mugen Civic? I can't seem to find out if he did.
i wished this car was sold in the U.S.
hows it nuts they made the mugen rr to compeat wit the s2000
That you could buy on the market at the time of the video, i don't think they made a 2008 NSX.
Love the RR. For people that are comparing the performance to cost ratio it's a COLLECTORS ITEM. This is the car you'll see at the Barrett-Jackson Auction in 50 years selling for 6 figures.
Didn't BMI tested the stock FD2 can beat the S2000 on tsukuba?
@Inuyashatg98 I love the way you put "if that is so" as if it's in any way disputed. Go on then, please list the racing championships that you've won since you clearly feel you're a better driver than Plato!
yeah, your'e right. in america the acura NSX ended in 2005 just like the acura integra ended production in 2001. but wait, we're talking about honda here, not acura. so youre wrong. they still make the Honda NSX.
@dah8rsluvme NSX is in the MR category. Its still rear wheel but...
He meant at the current time "the fastest rwd on sale" nsx production stopped way before the RR was released... listen carefully
where would the NSX-R stand against these 2 cars?
correction, in the USA the NSX is acura but in every other country it is Honda
that is why in most other country u will not find Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, or even Scion
Only in the USA will you find "parent" automakers
f20c engine s2000 released 1999, f22c engine(bored out) ap2 revamp in 2003/04.. true 50/50 weight distribution 2005, further suspension tuning 2006, s2000 CR release 2007/08.. some people like RWD s2000, some hate the torque of 2.0/2.2 (hence why people do the ls engine swap) people like the unpredictable characteristics (9000 RPM) of the ap1, some like the refined ap2. the ap2 is statistically better on paper and it shows on the track. but i still say that the operator can make the difference. (and that is true for any vehicle)
B16 engine Civic type r 1998, k20 engine gen 2 type r 2000/01, k20 engine gen 3 type r 2005/06, civic mugen rr release in 2007/08. some people love responsive throttle from FWD layout and not to mention year round driveability(including winter snow/ice)
FWD's definitely do shine on small handling courses, but the open road and high speeds truly affects the performance. I wonder how they would differ at the nurburgring.
It all up to the individual driver to handle and maximise the car performance.
It's true. Honda needs to make their base models at the very least 2 liter DOHC iVTEC with Direct Fuel Injection. Get rid of the plastic insides and add better suspension and steering control. (Bose surround sound wouldn't be a bad idea for an option, just saying)
They also need to get rid of the EX-L and just make that the EX, Get rid of the Si and replace it with the Mugen R.