6:15 - "What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory - even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" Romans 9:22-24
@@CoffeeWholeBean ,...Wrong! The vessels of wrath are not nations, they are all you fake christians that fill and make up everything known as the church.
I do not understand how even Calvinists cannot, with confidence, immediately shun the notion of infant damnation. Infant damnation is not supported in Scripture at all. At least not that I've seen. On the contrary, there are many passages that seem to praise children. Jesus said let the little children come to me. You must become like a child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. David seemed to think he would eventually go to be with his deceased child who was born of Bathsheba. There is a passage in Numbers (?) that escapes me at the moment, but it suggests that young children do not hold the same level of accountability and responsibility, because they were not penalized in the wilderness like their rebellious parents. The son will not be punished for the sins of the father. Even in Romans 9, it says something like, "before Jacob or Esau did anything good OR bad," suggesting that total depravity cannot mean that infants are born immediately guilty of committing sin. At the very least, many Calvinists need to rethink what total depravity means, because it's disgusting and unbiblical (imo) to think that non-elect babies are going to hell, which would imply that they are going to be punished under God's wrath for sins they did not commit. It has also caused unnecessary distress to mothers who are afraid their babies might die and go to hell. This is not a hard question, but unfortunately, the Calvinistic framework does make it a hard question. At least we can agree that God will never commit an injustice against anyone.
@@SethYoderMusic Calvinistic baptists almost universally reject the idea that dead infants are cast into hell. It’s mainly the Presbyterian versions of Calvinism that vacillate on the issue.
You, like everyone else here are completely wrong about everything you believe. None of you have any actual Biblical understanding. Here is the truth of the Bible for your edification, all babies are conceived and born 100% spiritually dead. All babies/children if they die will be thrown into the lake of fire. There is no case in the Bible of anyone being a Christian (saved person) until they were an adult. The 100% false unbiblical idea of babies/children not being thrown into the lake of fire only comes from the apostate church and from its antichrist chrtistianity. Again, the whole problem is, you are completely spiritually dead as are all children and this makes you Biblically illiterate, as are all the people of all the churches. If they were not totally Biblically illiterate, they would not have anything to do with anything known as the church. All those who reject "Calvinism" are all God haters, and are all hated by God. Repent!
Hey friend. I think a lot of Calvinists hold to "all are corrupted by Adams sin" instead of "all are guilty of Adams sin", based on the texts you cite. Meaning they don't believe babies that die in the womb go to hell.
Babies are not condemned because of adams sin. We are all judged on our own sin and babies have none. No we all are cursed because of adams sin but that's way different.
So babies have no sin yet are subject to disease and death and have died in the millions. God Himself killed many of them in the flood, for instance. The Bible ties death to sin. 👇👇👇 Romans 5:12 NLT _When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned._ So why do you believe babies have no sin again?
@@signposts6189 that's right babies have no sin whatsoever, tell me what sin they have committed? They are subject to the curses which includes human death brought about to the whole earth because of Adam sin. But they are not guilty of his sin and are innocent, if they die in infancy they go to be with the Lord not the devil. Yes God destroyed the whole earth, the animals did not sin did they, no and neither did the babies. Actually to preserve the human species and destroy fallen angel human hybrids after 120 years given to the adults to repent. David's son died, not because the baby sinned and he will see his father in heaven. Do you even hear yourself? I will pray for you, you seem to be more committed to a systematic like Calvinism then the actual word of God. Please do not council someone who loses a child and don't claim to be against abortion while also saying these aborted babies go to hell. That's just as crazy as James White saying God decrees and brings to past child rape where it has to come to past and your sin and evil thoughts and mind.
@@signposts6189Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are not guilty of if adams sin. Adam nor your kids are guilty of your sin. We each will be judged individually based on our own life sin and faith. Yes Adams sin affected the whole world and your sin affects your family and kids but they and you are not guilty of adams sin. We have sin of our own to deal with. When you were saved you asked God to forgive you for your sin, not your mother's, not your fathers, and definitely not Adams.or at least I hope. And he did and saved you specifically by grace through faith. He did not save your kids or Adam through your repentance confession and faith, he saved you neither did he condemn you to hell based on Adams your kids or fathers sin.
@Tigerex966 Yet Romans 5:12 straight up tells you *_everyone sinned._* You need to find something in Romans that exempts babies from this golden rule. Please do tell... I'll wait
@signposts6189 it's not talking about babies who cannot yet talk walk crawl speak understand anything or know right from wrong understand the gospel. Don't pretend you actually believe that's talking about babies in the womb because John Calvin says babies are doomed in the wind to hell or heaven before they are born by the false doctrine of double predestination
Why do Calvinists assume that understanding God starts with their presuppositions (TULIP)? The God they describe is vastly different from the Father that Jesus revealed and the narrative of the Bible does not align with the inquiries they make of it. It is not merely a philosophy; it concerns a Living, interactive God. Is God for humanity, desiring and yearning to restore fellowship with us, or is He indifferent to humanity, so angered by sin that we should feel fortunate He even acknowledges us? That is not my Jesus. That is not my God. Logical and theological reasoning is not incorrect, but there is nothing rational about Calvinism when it is detached from their theology. It is their premises that lack logic. Calvinism does not align with the Bible; it is so philosophical that they impose their philosophy onto the Scriptures. Regarding OSAS, Salvation is about a relationship, not a formula. You either have a relationship, in which case you are aware of it, or you do not. If a=b, then b must equal c. I doubt God would want us to interpret scripture in that manner, yet that is what I frequently hear from Calvinists. They must reinterpret scripture to conform to their presuppositions or established doctrines. Non-Calvinists do not need to address the questions (c) because the premise (a=b) is flawed from the outset.
The flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit is the one who gives life. Do not work for things that are perishable, but work for things eternal, which the son of Man will GIVE to you. The work of God is to BELIEVE in the one who He sent. No one can come to the Son unless the Father draws him, and the Son will never not ever cast him out. You can't even see the kingdom of God unless you are born again. The wind blows, hear it but you don't know where it came from or where it's going; so is everyone is born of the Spirit. My sheep hear my voice and they follow, you don't believe because you are not of my sheepfold. God so loved the world that whoever BELIEVES in the Son shall be saved. I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation. You say a Calvinist brings philosophy into the biblical text. I just gave you the gospel with verses pieced together from various texts in John. (In every context Jesus is speaking of eternal salvation.) Show us the verse that says.. "Thou shalt have a relationship with God to be saved." Now if you were honest with yourself you'd admit that you are bringing your OWN philosophy into the text and interpreting from that lens. While the statement "Christianity is a relationship" isn't necessarily untrue, it's unable to capture the biblical expression of fellowship with God. What that is in the mind must be trained by the testimony of Scripture then lived out BY FAITH. Stick to the words of Scripture and you can't go wrong. We believe the Gospel, thus we are saved unto good works, living a life of spiritual sacrifices pleasing to our God who in His great mercy gave us what we did not deserve. Salvation is unmerited, always by GRACE, and without receiving a new heart from God Himself (Jer 31), we are totally unable to walk in His ways. In all this we have full confidence that our God is able to save us and bring the good work He started in us to completion. By faith, unified to Christ, evident by the Holy Spirit's dwelling in our hearts. I'll say it again, I AM NOT ASHAMED OF GOSPEL. So why are you? Is it wrong for God to choose who He saves? Do all go to heaven, or do many go to hell? Did God declare the beginning from the end of not? Do you not choose people in your life to receive a special kind of love reserved for no one else? Wrestle with the truth friend. God choosing us in Christ is the most personal act of love and acceptance EVER. If "your Jesus" didn't choose you from the foundation of the world, then you certainly don't have the Jesus of the Scriptures in your heart.
Where does the Bible teach salvation is about relationship? Salvation is about being justified by faith which then brings us into relationship with God
Of course, they can't say for sure babies don't go to hell. If you think it is "unbelievably evil," here is a question for you: What happened to the babies and pregnant women in Sodom and Gomorrah when God rained fire and brimstone on those twin cities?
@signposts6189 the babies go to be with their maker they are innocent of any sin. Name one they did? Of such is the kingdom of heaven...as Jesus says. These men or more committed to a manmade Plato Augustine and gnostic based demonic manmade systematic then the Bible Babies do not go to hell, are you even serious?
We are to love God with all our mind. God is the logos. We are to use our God given logic in understanding God and His Word not unbiblical man-made theologies like Augustinian-Calvinism.
@@titosantiago3694 yes that’s what we are commanded.to do from God , not what you can do to understand him( with human logic) . So have you done that ? Have you loved him with your heart mind and soul perfectly?
@jamestoo1517 "not with human logic?" Being that God (the logos) created humans in his image (meaning humans have been given logic), so we are image bearers of God who are human with reason and logic, and you're saying we're somehow not to use our God given human faculties to discern truth-but yet you want me to set my God-given human reason and logic aside and listen to some other man's human logic (like yours or others) of his/their man-made human theology, doctrines, and opinions and trust them as true is completely incoherent and self-implodes with contradiction.
@jamestoo1517 The reality that God the Creator (Logos) created us in His image as image bearers with God-given reason and logic. Otherwise, He wouldn't command us to "Love Him with our our MIND." BDAG Lexicon mind-dionia-the faculty of thinking, comprehending, and reasoning, understanding, intelligence
I would say that Scripture interpreting Scripture does show that God does desire none perish and IS self sufficient and we don't need bodyguards to protect His glory from being tainted or to protect His people from Himself.... Bible does say that His people perish due to a lack of knowledge...this same knowledge can come from a proper fear of the Lord...beginning of wisdom. He desires that none perish. And that all would repent. He is not a robot and needs not force grace or belief. Love wouldn't be genuine and nor would obedience....if so....even satan would have claim to be given a crown of obedient follower of God ....😏🤪🙃 All that and still we have the sins being forgiven of the ignorant and God so loving the world and Jesus not condemning the world...but saving it through Him. Are these not also the character of God? How do you TULIP folks determine how God interprets those that are leading people to stray or sin or stumble ...if everyone is predetermined to go where they are going and how? TULIP seems to point all the problems back at God no different than Adam blamed God for the reason they were hiding...blamed the woman that God made listening to the serpent (that God made) that offered her the fruit that the tree (that God made) produced....and for His glory to be shown they hid from Him???? How do you interpret that part of Scripture that points out that nobody will die for another's sin? Like a father for their child's sin or a child for their father's sin....? Do you see God as a Wrathful God in a hurry and race to destroy His creation faster than satan? Or even ourselves? Seems as though the panel wasn't all that diverse... As far as the gov't goes... it IS placed by God...but (rightly dividing the truth) it became faulty like in Jeremiah where the clay BECAME corrupt....not forced that way to begin with) But this gov't has fallen in love with the mammon and it is a root of all kinds of evil...but the gov't is not the replacement Savior.... God's Only Son Permits Eternal Life! 😇🙏💪
You have spoken in total ignorance exposing your unsaved, spiritually dead, blind, lost, and deceived state, as well as to why you have been snared into the Godless worlds 100% false, manmade, antichrist, freewill gospel. God desires that none of his chosen ones that are less than 1% of the worlds population should not perish, not anyone else. God absolutely, 100% forces the very, very, very few who he has chosen to believe. The few who actually believe were all 100% forced to believe. Just like those like you are forced not to believe. God is the one in control here, not you or me. Who do you think you are to question God? God does not answer to you or to any other man. Go and read Job Ch. 38 and Ch. 40. The fact is, you know nothing and are nothing but a brute beast made only to be destroyed, and this is precisely why you have been snared into the Godless worlds antichrist freewill gospel. All you freewillers are all God haters and are all hated by God as you will all find out on judgement day.
Most Calvinist, “ Our interpretation of Rom 9; Eph 1, John 6.44 and several other verses… repeated again and again and again. “ while ignoring and dismissing the majority of scripture regarding salvation. A Calvinist will tell you that their interpretation of a handful of verses is all that matters and they will unfortunately ignore any verses that contradict their interpretations. The saddest thing is that they cannot see that their interpretation does not accurately reflect Gods true character.
If Calvinism is an accurate understanding, then there are no avoidable outcomes, & nothing, including deception that will alter outcomes,i.e. salvation of the ‘elect’. Deception is NOT associated with risk to ultimate outcome. Why would it be that we are warned many times against deception in the Bible?
And you will not get meaningful engagement regarding this or in addressing reasonable questions. It’s both frustrating and frankly a bit disturbing. When you point out the obvious detriment to God’s character their system practically demands, they will point to some ‘atrocity’ in the Old Testament like Jepthah’s daughter or Saul’s sons handed over to the Gibeonites, to in a way acknowledge something we all see as horrible (as the surface understanding at least) to prove that they do see problems with God’s character from the text but then fall back to our inability to recognize good and bad (our depravity) &or the idea that whatever God does is by definition good. Basically their system handles everything and anything and their hope is in their election to an eternal destiny of bliss not worrying about what many see as plain injustice lack of goodness & kindness in the part of God, based on our innate sensibilities applied to their systematic. This pushes good people away from God, but this doesn’t worry many or any because ‘none are good’ and none of the ‘(reformed) elect’ will be lost, and so it continues and is practically impervious to any questioning or rationale, a terrible yet brilliant mind-trap.
Total depravity does not mean total inability. That's what "calvinist" pour into scripture yet it cannot be found. They do it to make thier theology work. IMO.
Romans 5 teaches that Adam represented all of mankind. When Adam sinned we all sinned in him. Psalm 51:5 teaches that we are born sinners. Due to our slavery to sin(John8) Jesus teaches that we are unable to respond to the Gospel call (John 6:44). Now, as to why that is, the only answer is because God ordained it to be that way. God resigns all to sin so that He may receive 100 percent of the glory for the salvation of those that He has chosen, redeemed, and caused to be born again (Ephesians 1:4, 2:1-10).
@TwitchyTheologian So the nature that one is born with, one that is fallen, under condemnation, and will always reject God and on thier way to hell is one that God Himself decreed for man to be born with correct? So God makes all men sinners with an inability to respond positively to the Gospel call so that He can get glory for saving a few and sending the rest to hell correct? Nothing in John 6:44 says man is unable to respond positively to the Gospel call just that they need to be called 😉 Thanks 👍
I have a God who left His glory and came to earth, became one of us, so we can be saved. The God you describe is very narcissist; you speak a lot of "for his glory". He did not chose all humanity for his own glory. He leaves so many to go to hell just because is so narcissist. This doesn't looks like my God.
2:26 - Is it really any different if God "knows that someone will choose to reject Christ", yet He creates them anyway knowing that He will send them to hell?
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the false manmade unbiblical idea that God knows who will choose him. God created 99% of the people of the world to be brute beasts made only to be destroyed. These are who fill all the apostate churches that all have no idea what the truth, the gospel, or the Christianity of the Bible actually is. 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" Jude 1:10 "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
Calvinists always start with philosophy and logic based on presuppositions. They rarely are capable of handling scripture in its correct context. They favour eisegesis over exegesis
@ give me a scripture and let’s test it. Or what about Eph 1:4, does the pure text and text alone say we are predestined and chosen “to be” in Christ, or days it say we are chosen and predestined “in Him”. Do you see how there could be a major difference as to what this means? Presupposition of the Calvinist adds the “to be” to prove their point when itv isn’t in the text. Let’s hear what you have to say about exegesis of this verse?
@ Instead of asking me to explain what this verse means as if I'm a biblical scholar, why wouldn't you explain how it goes against the Calvinistic view? That's what this debate is about after all.
@@matts.6558simply put He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world. Since the choice was made before we existed to make choices there doesn't seem to be any other way to see it. Either way we weren't there making choices and He knew the choices before the foundation of the world, He doesn't learn from us what choice we will make. So either interpretation is His choosing as to who the 'us' is.
I’m afraid every theological perspective relies on presuppositions and logic. Watch a debate between a covenant theologian and a dispensationalist, or between a credobaptist and a paedobaptist, or between a young earth creationist and a theistic evolutionist. They all revolve around different presuppositions and different logical premises.
Calvinism gets it backwards when it comes to the salvation of infants. Jesus died for everyone including all infants. Salvation is by grace alone, but grace can be resisted. People go to hell because they resist God's grace. Infants are unable to resist God's grace. Therefore, children who die in infancy are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
If you read from the beginning of chapter 18 it is actually clear from the context He is referring to believers being the children of God, not just little children. Verses 3 and 4 are where this comparison is made. Thank you for the question that was based in scripture and not just emotional opinion, that is how we should all approach these difficult topics.
@ChristisLord2023 Yeah, it really does seem to hand the baton off to believers, metaphorical little children, after having begun with the literal little children.
@@ChristisLord2023 ,..Yes, of course. All the people of ALL the churches have been snared into the church that is all 100% apostate. The church is a trap and no actual Christian is snared by it. Only those who do not belong to God can become snared into the apostate church and into its antichrist christianity. There are two Christianity's, one real and the other fake. What everything known as the church preaches/sells is the antichrist christianity of the Godless people of the Godless world. The other Christianity that is made up of the few who Jesus came to save all have nothing whatsoever to do with anything known as the church. The real church is a spiritual church, not a physical church.
Great men of faith to speak with and speak theology, and being willful servants and slaves to the one true God Father Son and Spirit! thankful for the conversation 🙏
“God looks at who He wants to save”???? But God in His mercy, He chooses some to be saved.” You must not be able to hear yourself. It’s Glorious for God to CHOOSE who He wants to elect, but you have to admit He chooses who He doesn’t want… FACTs! You hide behind,” Well He’s God!”. But you’ve defined Gods attributes by making these claims… Don’t apply logic. Haha Run from these guys!
@ That’s funny. The god of Calvinism, who is also the author of all evil, needs to put the word “if” in the Bible, even though this phoney religion posits that everything is predetermined, and we are too stupid to see why…. Yeah…. Nice religion. Keep these explanations coming! Great entertainment and demonstration of cognitive dissonance! Haha.
Romans 3 does NOT teach that all men outright reject and cannot even choose the mercy of God. Rather in it’s correct context and quoting of the Psalms, it teaches nobody, whether Jew or Gentile, is righteous under the Law, which whether Jew or Gentile, all men one this because the Law is written in our conscience, so whether written it is written down like it was for the Jews, all men know of their sin. This flows perfectly from Romans 2, and Roman’s 1 where Paul states all men should know God exists because of physical creation and are without excuse. Romans 3 in no way teaches men are totally incapable of seeking after God and accepting the gospel. Acts 17 completely disagrees with the idea of total inability to seek God.
Romans 1 doesn't say everyone "should" know God exists, it says everyone "DOES" know. See, your philosophy lead you to the wrong interpretation of scripture. Which leads you to the wrong conclusion of Romans 3.
@@josephconkle3947 I would actually be fine with somebody taking it further and saying Romans 1 says everyone "does know", that only strengthens my argument and aligns with what I already wrote.
@@josephconkle3947 Mind exegeting and providing your interpretation of Acts 17:24-27 and how this jives with Calvinism? “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
@matts.6558 actually it magnifies your error. Romans 3 says there are NONE who seek after God. You have to twist the meaning and tell us what it DOESN'T SAY to give it a different meaning. That's text book eisegesis.
I’m not a Calvinist and I think there were some more fundamental issues that needs to be addressed prior to even having the tulip conversation ie determinism vs libertarian freedom as that’s the interpretative grid that these conversations and reading of these texts seem to be had in. However, I appreciate this discussion 😊
@@loganbaumstark8950 well, it seems to me and all others who aren’t committed to a Calvinist is interpretation of the text that determinism can’t be right because people are told to choose and are rewarded and punished based on their actions. For the Calvinist this is somewhat a difficultly on a number of issues but in particular salvation. The reason for this is because though, yes one can have an infralapsarian interpretation of God’s election ie he chooses from fallen humanity who will be saved and therefore is just in not choosing others as they will get what they justly deserve in judgment. The problem is that on a deterministic reading of the scriptures would also mean that God determined the fall of humanity. So a picture of this would be an arsenist setting on fire a house full of people and then going in and saving “some people” and not all people and still being seen as just because he didn’t have to save the others. This is the Calvinist dilemma that they didn’t discuss which I think is the interpretive grid being used. So though the non determist has to answer a similar question ie God creates knowing the choices of humanity, the Calvinist dilemma is sharper when it comes to God’s character and relationship with evil even the evil he commands us not to do! Bless
@@collin501 hi Collin, well this is the crux of the matter I’m not a theological determinist so this is really a question that presupposes a deterministic cause. But one way I would answer the question asked is the preconditions are one that a person is made in the image of God which includes a moral compass to understand (to a degree) moral realities and therefore they are aware of their own sinfulness (something that many unbelievers are aware of ie we have courts and laws that prevent and punish bad behaviour) and 2 the conviction of the Holy Spirit (which is not irresistible) through the proclamation of the Gosple.
@@paulsemakula8600 I’m not necessarily presupposing a deterministic cause. It depends on how you interpret Isaiah 6:9-10 and Mathew 13:11-15. How can people “grow dull of hearing“? Being able to hear would be a precondition to believing, would it not? What about humility? “For you save a humble people, but the haughty eyes you bring down.” Psalm 18:27 “Good and upright is the Lord; therefore he instructs sinners in the way. He leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble his way.” Psalm 25:8-9 Pride is a barrier to being instructed. If you’re not instructed, then how can you believe? How would you say are people humbled, so that they will be saved? There are different types of soil that the seed falls into. Some are suitable for the seed to grow and be fruitful. Some are not. Note that at least on average, it is the lowly of the world that are saved. “For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,” 1 Corinthians 1:26, 28
That is because none of these guys are Christians. Just because someone claims to be a Calvinist or is willing to go along with it does NOT make them a Christian.
If there is any question mark over the cross in respect of God's character - all that it would take for there to be a question mark over the cross is if we could not identify which part of God's unchanging character (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8) is responsible for both showing mercy and NOT showing mercy - this while God is supposedly unchanging in mercy - then all of Christianity falls.
Here are verses which show that each TULIP doctrine - and original sin - is false doctrine. Original sin - Deuteronomy 1:39, Isaiah 7:16 Total depravity - Mark 12:34, Acts 17:22-23 Unconditional election - 2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 3:12-14 Limited atonement - Romans 5:18, Acts 10:34-35 Irresistible grace - 2 Corinthians 6:1 Perserverance of the saints - see the verses for Unconditional election and also Matthew 24:13. If anyone reading my post cannot see how the verses I present PROVE each Calvinist doctrine to be false - please reply to this post stating the doctrine for which you would like to have a more detailed explanation.
@@signposts6189Hello - every believer that I have ever met believes that human beings are sinners - the question is HOW we all came to be sinners. Original sin says that we all became sinners due to our all being inclined towards sin from birth due to our being descendants of Adam. Deuteronomy 1:39 shows that children below a certain age do not have the necessary understanding - and therefore state of heart - to be sinners. And Isaiah 7:16 shows that children below a certain age do not have the necessary bodily autonomy - or understanding - it isn't clear exactly which - these existing only after the early years of life - to be sinners. The only way that original sin survives these verses is if sinning is only about doing the act - not about someone's state of heart and mind. But if this were so it would mean that we must conclude that Jesus was as angry with the woman at the well as he was with the Pharisees who he called a brood of vipers. Which is ridiculous - it is clear that Jesus' response to the sin of each sinner is not the same. Therefore original sin is false doctrine.
@philipjbenjamin Deuteronomy 1:39 specifically exempts the young children from their parents who _"... rebelled against the command of the LORD your God and refused to go in. You complained in your tents and said, ‘The LORD must hate us. That’s why He has brought us here from Egypt-to hand us over to the Amorites to be slaughtered."_ (Deuteronomy 1:26-27 NLT) Isaiah 7:15 has God using a conventional way of speaking about children saying _"By the time this child is old enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong, he will be eating yogurt and honey."_ (Isaiah 7:15 NLT). Again, what the heck does any of this have to do with the doctrine of original sin?
@@signposts6189 The Deuteronomy verse does more than say the children are exempt. It says WHY they are - they are exempt because they (ESV) "have no knowledge of good or evil". It doesn't merely say they didn't do the evil their parents did. The Isaiah verse may be a conventional way of speaking - that doesn't change the fact that the verse reveals that children know how to refuse the evil and choose the good a good deal of time AFTER birth. I won't be engaging from here - I believe that you have already demonstrated in your reply a wish to be deliberately stupid - to deliberately refuse to see what is right in front of you.
The double predestination question can be applied to the arminian viewpoint as well. We should discuss this sometime, fellas! Love the work you do though.
I deleted my comment because I should ask you, first, to explain what you mean here instead of simply interpreting your comment to say: "Calvinism focuses on the flaws of man". I think I got that wrong.
@ That’s fair, let me explain what I’m getting at; The natural reaction to first hearing that God chooses individuals for salvation (everlasting life) and eternal damnation ( either directly or indirectly ‘passing over them’ and this before any have done either good or bad is often to recoil and in horror &or disgust perhaps, state that this is not only unjust but even cruel and unloving. Rather than acknowledge the validity of such an assessment it’s disallowed or made to be invalid /irrelevant as we are told how terrible and depraved mankind is, so bad in fact that we cannot recognize the goodness of God in our ‘fallen state’ a condition so often described as total depravity. The state of all mankind we are told as a consequence of Adam & Eve’s sin in the garden. A condition ultimately determined by God as all things are in perfect accord with his eternal decree. All of reality is exhaustively deterministic. If a person acknowledges what Calvinism portrays about God as not good, the ability of that person (and mankind in general) to recognize good and evil accurately is generally attacked by claiming mankind’s total depravity often quoting Romans 3 as ‘proof’. I’d like to add more but for now, I think this helps clarify what I was getting at.
@ Ok. I am still not sure of your point but I'm tracking with you as far as it goes. Can't tell what your position is but I like to describe what we are dealing with is that we obviously choose who we will serve. Our choices are real. We are not coerced or forced to choose against our own will. But God knows, intimately, all things and yet He is not the author of sin. He does determine before time began a people for Himself. Not all, but a number and these God so loved that He died for, sacrificing Himself for the sins we have done paying for them on the cross. To these He gives of His Spirit whereby declaring we can do all things thru Him who gives us strength. We look to Him for our sustenance and do not swerve to the right or to the left until we see Him in His Glory that He has had from the beginning with the Father. This is the story of the Gospel. This is the story every faithful believer, having the faith of Abraham, will come to reality at the end. To them He disciplines and perfects us thru many hardships and testings proving us faithful. This is what "Calvinism" embodies as a theology and of which I hold to.
@@joeadrian2860 Thanks for the reply, before addressing what you sent please address what I sent. And to briefly describe again the point I made; Calvinism’s portrayal of God is, (if no further explanation is provided) received by practically all at first as unjust and unloving, even cruel. The further explanation provided by Calvinism which supposedly undoes this assessment is that mankind is so totally depraved that he cannot recognize the goodness of God. God looks really bad but in actuality man is bad, so bad that he can’t recognize that God as described is actually good. So, this is why I say Calvinism is an insult to the character of God (It portrays God as unjust, unloving, even cruel) BUT this is obscured by focusing on the flaws of man (total depravity). Calvinism mischaracterizes God and the ability of man to the detriment of many.
Honest question after reaching the 10:54 mark. I don't consider myself a Calvinist, but we agree that God will get glory from also displaying wrath and justice, and that He was not obligated to save even one man. With these two premises in mind, would Christ's crucifixion still have served its purpose of reconciling all things to God (like it says in Colossians 1) even if all men would have rejected His offer by their ability to freely choose? In other words, is there another purpose Christ's death/resurrection would have served even if all humanity rejected it? Hopefully that makes sense. It's a fairly complex question that I'm having trouble wording succinctly.
You're implying that Christ's atoning work on the cross can actually save no one. Matthew 7:13-14 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. The problem with libertarian free will is that it makes people's choices or destinies completely uncertain. But we are told in Matt 7:13-14 that there will certainly be some who will be saved.
Why are you asking and concerned with such a non relevant question? What you need to be concerned with is your 100% fake antichrist christianity. You do not even know what the gospel is or what the Christianity of the Bible is. Get away from everything that claims to be the church and throw out all the unbiblical nonsense the 100% apostate church has indoctrinated you with and read the Bible yourself only! Do not ever listen to anyone from any church, not ever.
@@4jchan I agree that, in reality (non-hypothetically) there are people who will be saved by Christ's atoning work. (Thank God!!!) I've heard before that love cannot be pure or true if it is coerced, but that it must be freely given. I tend to agree, though I can't point to a biblical passage to prove such. But that idea makes sense to me. The Bible in various places describes our eternal reward with the qualifier that WE love Him. For example, Romans 8:28 - "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Or James 1:12 - "Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him." But in Calvinism, nobody wants to positively respond to the Gospel, so God has to regenerate them first (against their will) so that they will love Him. It doesn't seem like true love if God has to alter their very nature so that they will then love Him.
@@SethYoderMusic I disagree. The claim that for love to be genuine it has to be free in the sense that it must be possible to reject God in order to be possible to love God. That is the free will defense which doesn't really explain WHY there is ACTUAL evil but only that evil must be POSSIBLE in order to have the possibility to love. But libertarian free will denies that motives exist. There is no reason as to why we choose what we choose. So you wouldn't be able to say that you take care of your wife BECAUSE you love her. You cannot be motivated by love if motives don't exist. Since God does regenerate people's heart to love him it is real love because the heart is what determines our choices or actions. This is genuine love because it's motivated by love. If you don't believe that God can change a person's heart then how do you explain the fact that in the next life we will love God perfectly without ever sinning? And it is due to the fact that we will be made perfect by the Holy Spirit. So not having the ability to reject God does not negate genuine love for God.
Ok, I see your point about being perfected by the HS so that we can love perfectly. That’s a good point. But I’m guessing that saying libertarian free will denies the existence of motives is on the level of saying Calvinism makes us all robots. That seems like a gross misrepresentation of what libertarian free will would teach, but I don’t actually know much at all about LFW, so maybe what you say regarding the motives thing is a fundamental component of their argument. 🤷🏼♂️
@@toddstevens9667 lol. If you think Dave hunts book is nonsense than you are beyond saving. Give me one example of something in his book that you think is nonsense
I read it 20 years ago. And threw it away. So I don’t remember much. But what sticks out in my mind is his attack on Calvin himself. Since Calvin died before Calvinism was created by Beza, I thought he didn’t do much research before writing the book. Calvinism is a reaction to Arminius’s attacks that happened after Calvin died.
But I will tell you that I’m not a Calvinist. I believe 1 of the five points. I completely deny the T, the U, the L, and the I of TULIP. And my understanding of P is probably very different than the Calvinist understanding of P. I just thought Hunt’s book was weak, shallow, and not well researched.
Looks like y’all knew how to title this video to get the most views. Lol. But I love these three theologians. I’m currently reading Ware’s The Man Christ Jesus. Excellent book. These scholars are so much more than just Calvinists. They are first-rate scholars.
Calvinisim: God picked people to be saved in eternity past, but still requires them to believe in his son who died for them only. At the same time granting them the belief they need to believe, because they can't believe, even though he tells them to believe. Then he makes sure they continue to believe, even though they were chosen to believe.Then he tells them to go into all the world and find the others he had picked to believe, because they can’t believe, even though they were chosen to believe.
I think its ok to defend Gods character in the face of an absence of scripture ,I would rather comfort a grieving mother by voicing the goodness and mercy of God than to say " nope ,burning in hell"since the scripture does not say babies are damned .
Let's see if I can make this extremely simple for everyone regarding double predestination and sovereign election. I hope this helps: God grants everyone born into the world providence, which is called COMMON grace and mercy. However, He only gives, by His sovereign will, SALVIFIC grace and mercy to whom He wishes. The rest, as it were, live solely in providence.
I find it amazing the lack of depth the theologians have on imputed righteousness. How much of Jesus's life did you work? How much of Adam's sin was imputed to you? Was Grace completely free? Is sin only the work of the hands or of the heart
Step 1 for proving Calvinism: Make sure your panelists are actually Calvinists. Bruce Ware’s a sweet man and loves the Lord (more than I ever will!). But he’s no Calvinist (he rejects particular redemption).
The first question makes me chill. God created Adam and Eve, but that they have sinned and its in human nature we go agaist God. But God loves humanity that he sacrificed his own Son not because we deserve it but because of His great mercy and grace, those people He seprated for Him, He change the disposition of their heart and sustain it. If you want fairness and judgement, no one is going to heaven, so he shown mercy to who he shown mercy, he loves Jacob but hates Esau, despite the fact that both still in their mothers womb. God is not heartless, He is full of Love, People cant even understand He is a Soveriegn God, He select.and seprate as He pleases. All of these what i mentioned here are all in the Holy Scripture
So if you have a family who comes in and has lost a child you will tell them "Hey I know you lost your child but...they could be in hell, they could be in heaven...I dont really know...SORRY!" Got it I will mark and acoid your teachings!
Calvinists don’t have to say any such thing because Calvinists A: Don’t believe infants who die are non elect B: Don’t take a stance of the salvation of older children or claim an unbiblical “age of accountability” C: Understand that the scripture alone informs a person of their own salvation so that they have assurance of said salvation. We can only speak on what may seem to be or not seem to be regarding someone’s salvation status. Punishment for sin is dependent upon what a person knows and it is God who determines when that is for everyone. Simultaneously, because we Trust God, unlike you, we understand that even if God does damn infants to hell for being born sinners (as scripture says of them) He is good, right, Holy, and just for doing so.
Calvinism is false! There are no bible verses that say Calvinist distinctives. Election, predestination, and chosen, it's never in regards to salvation but to a specific work. Therefore, what God is really choosing before the foundation of the world is exactly what the Bible says chosen to be holy, blameless, etcetera. Just keep reading.
What you fail to understand is, you, and all those like you, are reading the Bible as a spiritually dead and blind person. You do not have the ability to understand the Bible. You only have the ability to misunderstand the Bible. And this is precisely why you are a freewiller and fail to understand the truth of the Bible that Calvin understood. You do not just have the gospel/salvation all wrong, everything you believe and hold to is Biblically incorrect. Your whole fake antichrist christianity is all a manmade fraud. Repent!
Actually, the exact opposite of what you stated is the truth. The ONLY way anyone can come to the 100% unbiblical conclusion of the freewill gospel is to be a spiritually dead and blind person who has been deceived by spiritually dead and blind leaders the apostate church. What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" comes only from the Bible and from an actual understanding of the Bible. Your antichrist (another) gospel only comes from listening to and being deceived by the blind guides of the 100% apostate church. There is no one (an actual Christian) who understands what Calvin understood that came to that conclusion after reading Calvin. They all already understood it. Again, if you were not completely spiritually dead and accursed of God you would know this truth.
What you fail to understand is, you, and all those like you, are reading the Bible as a spiritually dead and blind person. You do not have the ability to understand the Bible. You only have the ability to misunderstand the Bible. And this is precisely why you are a freewiller and fail to understand the truth of the Bible that Calvin understood. You do not just have the gospel/salvation all wrong, everything you believe and hold to is Biblically incorrect. Your whole fake antichrist christianity is all a manmade fraud. Repent!
Guys, include replies to comments when you tally comments up, and you'll see YT's comments tally is correct, and comments aren't being erased by the hosts. 🎉
@@mariomene2051 we’re a page that welcomes debates and gracious conversations. Everyone has a bias BUT we welcome dialogue. We wouldn’t delete comments just because we don’t agree with their points.
@@Bibledingers ,.."we don’t delete comments ever." This is because I have not commented yet here. When I begin to comment, you will be doing a lot of deleting as when the actual truth of Gods word appears, you will all be offended by it.
The Bible is clear that salvation is offered to all men, YET all men reject God and none will seek after Him. Therefore He graciously has mercy on some in spite of ourselves and gives us a new heart and put His Spirit within us.
Romans 3 does NOT teach that all men outright reject and cannot even seek or choose the mercy of God. Rather in it’s correct context and quoting of the Psalms, it teaches nobody, whether Jew or Gentile, is righteous under the Law, which whether Jew or Gentile, all men know this because the Law is written on our conscience, so whether it is written down like it was for the Jews, or whether written intangibly in the case of gentiles, all men know of their sin. This flows perfectly from Romans 2, and Roman’s 1 where Paul states all men should know God exists because of physical creation and are without excuse. Romans 3 in no way teaches men are totally incapable of seeking after God and accepting the gospel. Acts 17 completely disagrees with the idea of total inability to seek God.
This cannot be so - without the conclusion having to be that God is not merciful. If a man is respectful to women on odd days of the year - but not on even days of the year - cannot be called respectful to women - then a 'god' who is merciful sometimes - but not at other times - cannot be called merciful. And therefore Calvinism is primary doctrinal failure. It's that simple. (Calvinists argue that no-one deserves mercy - but while this is true - it is irrelevant - we aren't talking about what people deserve - we are talking about the way God behaves).
@@EDCREVIEWSwith respect, the phrase is total inability. They are unable because they are unwilling that is true. They are unwilling bc they have evil hearts. I’m a Calvinist. I’m just making sure people understand what you are saying.
The Synod of Dort, where the Arminian position was put on trial and they refused to defend their position of freewill salvation… The Synod, however, very properly, reminded him ... that, as the Remonstrants were accused of departing from the Reformed faith, they were bound first to justify themselves, by giving Scriptural proof in support of their opinions. The Arminians would not submit to this plan of procedure because it destroyed their whole scheme of argument ... and were thus compelled to withdraw. Upon their departure, the Synod proceeded without them.[
actually Jesus did not say they committed miracles and did good works and cast out demons in his name ,they said that about themselves ,for they were deceived .this teaching really says"its not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy that he saves us"this understanding will help you to teach others that think that those that are not saved can somehow do real miracles and really cast out demons,the demons probably laughed and played along just to keep up the deception.
What are the preconditions to faith and salvation under Calvinism? I understand it to be nothing about the people themselves because they’re equally (identically?) undeserving. I understand all are undeserving. But God has mercy on Paul because he acted in ignorance. Also, 1 Cor 1:26-29 gives certain characteristics of people that God chose. That is, God does give some reasons for who he chose. Also think about the parable of the sower. The characteristics of the soil are important prior to the seed being planted and bringing forth life. God resists the proud, gives grace to the humble. Psalm 18:27 God saves a humble people. Humility is capable of receiving from the will of the giver as it doesn’t attribute greatness to itself. Therefore it gives God all the glory. It seems to be a precondition. How and why it occurs is certainly a question. But nonetheless it seems to be a precondition.
Scripture teaches us why. God fulfills any “preconditions” that are required. He puts men exactly where they need to be and influences and shapes every one of the elects minds and situations to the point of fertility if you will. God woos. God “calls” and “makes to come” (Psalm 65:4) He convicts and fills and makes new. God shapes the clay and then does with the clay as He pleases.
I heard a lot of philosophical contentions. Didn't hear any rational arguments for how the Bible teaches Calvinism- which should be at the heart of the argument. Sadly Calvinists know they can't take that approach because the Bible has to be bent to Calvinist philosophy, rather than bending their philosophy to match what the Bible teaches.
That is because none of these guys are Christians. Just because someone claims to be a Calvinist or is willing to go along with it does NOT make them a Christian. Do not be deceived, there is no one who is a Christian that does not understand what Calvin understood! Repent of your fake, manmade, antichrist gospel/christianity!
22:10, if God always does what is right and what is just, how exactly is it just to preprogram people (Calvinism’s non-elect) to sin WITHOUT any chance of accepting the gospel, yet still hold them accountable for their sin AND not accepting the gospel? That is completely unjust to hold someone accountable for what they cannot do. Worse off to hold them accountable for what they were designed to do in their default state. That’s based on straight facts not emotions. There has to be a decision proposition of either or in order for judgement to be just. Calvinists attempt to use emotional weakness as both a critique of their opponents and a suppression mechanism to its proponents to not think about the factual and logical implications of their system and the way it characterizes God.
Calvinist are unbiblical. They have to change all to mean, the elect. They have to add before the beginning of time in Romans 9. Notice that Romans 9 is referring to Israel. God chose Jacob so that the messiah would come from his lineage. He did not choose Isau for that reason. A Calvinist has to add, Jacob is all of those who God chose before the beginning of time and Isau are the reprobates. The Bible does not say that. That idea has to be presupposed and brought into the text
Let's start out with we're all fallen and headed for hell, okay? We're cockroaches, and God would have every right to send in Pest Control to fumigate. But - in His love, He has allowed us to have life on this earth. He actually saved Noah and his family. So here we are. Second, there is no earthly reason ANY ONE of us should go to heaven. Ever. None of us can earn our way there. So, that some are chosen to go is astounding. No one can say "Well, I wanted to choose..." because that shows that person DIDN'T choose. That's on each of us. Today is the day of salvation.
Psalms 8:3-8 When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him? Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. You have given him dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen, and also the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, whatever passes along the paths of the seas. This doesn't sound like it's describing cockroaches!
I think that there is an age of accountability that is different for all persons including the mentally impaired,for God does choose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.
Not so. Babies are born sinners because they inherit the fallen nature of Adam as scripture says. However, Jesus was not born of a man. He did not inherit Adams sinful nature. This was the whole purpose for being born from a virgin
@ inheriting flesh isn’t a sin to give account for on the day of judgment . The “original sin” doctrine of man disregards and contradicts The Word of G-D. “The soul who sins, he shall die. THE SON SHALL NOT BEAR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.” Ezekiel 18:20 Sin is not inherited Secondly, if Jesus is a demigod, then he is not the Messiah and Joseph’s genealogies in Luke and Matthew are completely irrelevant. Deifying Jesus robs him of his accolade as the only one worthy to open the scroll and look inside it. Deifying Jesus makes Jesus a hypocrite pretending to be a human, pretending to be tempted, and pretending to suffer. He only half suffered, he only half emptied himself. Deifying Jesus also makes G-D a hypocrite for flooding the earth and wiping out humanity and banishing the nephilim to Tartarus for making babies with the daughters of Adam…only for THE HOLY SPIRIT to impregnate the Jewish Pharisee Miriam with HIS HOLY SEED? Absolutely Ridiculous. The Holy Spirit transmitted Joseph’s seed into Miriam’s womb without the normal means of intercourse. Why is this important? Because “the virgin birth” was not a Messianic requirement, but a LITERAL seed of David through Solomon IS a requirement, so if Joseph is NOT Jesus’s biological father then Jesus is disqualified from being a Messianic candidate.
John 3:17 refutes all of Calvinism. The World - Kosmos (all of sinful humanity) Sozo subjunctive mood - might be saved, (has the ability possibility and potentiality to believe and be saved.) Poof
I read with much profit from all of these men, but not on the subject of Calvinism. Such an absurd and misguided notion as divine determinism of all men’s choices is indefensible.
Read the Old Testament, friend. That will help a lot. God sends lying spirits, ordains kings to take bad counsel, is sovereign over war (and that means every movement of man's hand with their sword!), it says He "enticed David to number Israel" in 2 Sam. 30 (which it says was sin!). Hope this helps, there is much to learn!
@@mr.f6912 The only thing worse than Calvinism's claim of God's universal determinism of all choices which therefore makes him the ultimate author of sin, is that fact that some unashamedly embrace it. Of course, I'm aware of those verses, but Calvinistic determinism isn't the proper interpretation of them. And God does not causally determine men to sin, which would be sinful.
Those in error trying to prove they are right about their error and self congratulating themselves about how much they know about their error No Calvinist can reject Calvinism because he is given ivermectin to Calvinism by God due to their intellectual pride or pride of false humility. First they must repent of their pride and then they can be led to the truth. It’s futile arguing with someone who doesn’t want to admit they have come to the table with presuppositions
@ Ive lived and spent countless hours with Calvinists. Never met an Arminian , knowingly. The Calvinist apologist most of the time makes a dichotomy. Which you have done. Greenland is waiting for you.
Many error are in this video. First, the Almighty God has reconciled the whole world to himself by the death of his son. Not only what Calvinist called “the elect” but everyone who responds in faith to the righteousness the Creator expect us to carry in our lives. God says in Ezekiel 18:23 “ Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?” To say that the Creator chooses some is no not understand that the Creator has forgiven mankind and wants everyone to repent and stop living wickedly. It is a complete error of Calvinism and a mischaracterization of the Creator to think that only some chosen without any involvement on their part, are actually saved. Also, in minute 30, a statement has been made which is false. No one is a christian for believing Jesus is God, nothing in the scripture says that, it is a pop culture error that unfortunately has gotten into christianity. Being a Christian was to accept Jesus as the Messiah, the son of God, not God. Also, Jesus is a human being born of a woman born under the Law as Paul states in Galatian 4:4, Jesus was conceived in Mary by the Father as stated in Luke 1:26-35, also in Matthew 16;16, Jesus agreed and commended Peter for saying that “ you are the Christ, the son of the living God”, which is the same that John says in John20:30-31. No Jesus is not God or has two natures that is false.
Sorry, you are completely wrong with everything you stated and everything you have been deceived to believe. Jesus did NOT die for anyone other than the very, very, very few who are Gods chosen ones that make up less than 1% of the world. the remaining 99% are all vessels of wrath made only to be destroyed as the Bible clearly tells you. These are all those who fill and make up everything known as the church that is all 100% apostate. You are NOT a Christian! Nor is anyone snared into anything that claims to be a/the church. Just because people claim to be Calvinists does not make them Christians. Understanding what Calvin understood is only the correct understanding of one Biblical truth. Christians understand ALL of the Bibles truths, not just a few of them.
@ According to the Bible, not to me, those who accept the Creator’s offering of his son on the cross are reconciled to Him. Everyone is invited to accept that reconciliation. Don’t you see the difference?
@@fcastellanos57 ,...No, this is all only according to your total misunderstanding of the Bible. You being a spiritually dead and blind man fail to understand that you are a spiritually dead and blind man trying to understand what you have NO ability to understand. You have this all 100% wrong and remain spiritually dead, blind, lost, unsaved, deceived, Biblically illiterate, and 100% outside of the kingdom of God as do ALL those who believe what you believe.
Drop the determinism and the Bible makes perfect sense. You do not need to hold a lot of “mysteries “ as far as salvation is concerned. Election is clearly conditional.
If you think that then you are confessing to believe that you must work to get to Heaven. You must get smart enough. Wise enough. You must make yourself get the thing the scripture says you can’t get (1 Corinthians 2:14) and therefore you are espousing a false Gospel.
@ Nope. You are assuming a deterministic view. Why did you believe? Because you won the cosmic lottery? Or because you accepted the invitation? The Spirit draws. We are responsible to come. Faith is never ever seen as a work in scripture. Actually it is clearly put just opposed in Romans 3:22, Romans 3:28
Actually, the exact opposite of what you stated is the truth. The ONLY way anyone can come to the 100% unbiblical conclusion of the freewill gospel is to be a spiritually dead and blind person who has been deceived by spiritually dead and blind leaders the apostate church. What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" comes only from the Bible and from an actual understanding of the Bible. Your antichrist (another) gospel only comes from listening to and being deceived by the blind guides of the 100% apostate church. There is no one (an actual Christian) who understands what Calvin understood that came to that conclusion after reading Calvin. They all already understood it. Again, if you were not completely spiritually dead and accursed of God you would know this truth.
I don’t think that they don’t like it. I think they would say that it has nothing to do with baptism. Baptism isn’t mentioned or even inferred in the passage. They would suggest that baptism has a particular theological meaning that 1 Cor. 7:14 does not address.
@@toddstevens9667 Although I do believe it has application to baptism, I'm referring to their noticeable lack of reference to this text when address the never-easy pastoral question of "children who die at infancy saved"? I believe that, at least when the parents are believers (who are typically the only parents who ask this question) have this issue, 1 Corinthians 7:14 is the most straightforward answer; and yes, Voddie is wrong when he calls the children of believers "vipers in diapers"
Your response isn’t showing up here, but I read it in my emails. But that verse says nothing whatsoever about salvation, baptism, or infants. So I’m very confused about what you see there. I’m a child of believers. Am I heaven-bound regardless of my relationship to Jesus?
@@toddstevens9667 The children of believers (or indeed, even children where only one parent is a believer) are "holy" - meaning, presumed to be regenerate covenant members until proven otherwise. As such, we can safely presume that a child who dies as a fully-fledged member of the covenant community of special grace is saved.
Stop for a minute and think - and just be honest with yourself: You're going to hang your salvation, not on the Apostles' writings in the New Testament, not upon what they and the church they founded taught about Christ and how to worship Him, but on the writings of a French lawyer in the 16th century? Just sit and think about that for a minute, in deep, sober silence, and then come back and tell me with a straight face that you're willing to gamble your eternity, and that of your family, and go all-in on the Pope of Geneva. Yeah - it feels wrong, because it IS wrong.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, and a heretic, whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like Muhammed before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities. A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true heretic is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, and a heretic, whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like Mohammed before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities. A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true heretic is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, and a heretic, whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like a 7th century prophet in the Arabian peninsula before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities. A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true heretic is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, his beliefs were heresy, and whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like a 7th century prophet in the Arabian peninsula before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities. A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true false prophet is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
The Bible clearly tells us, God absolutely "picks" people for hell, just as he picks a few for salvation. 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" Jude 1:10 "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" End of story!
The first 2 you posted clearly refute your initial statement. Romans 9 is very complex- but doesn't say what you think it says if you read it in context.
@@paulring86 ,...No, sorry, they do not! The Bible tells us God made two kinds of people, people with two different destiny's. He created 99+% of the people of the world as vessels of wrath and brute beasts made only to be destroyed, and the remaining few as his chosen ones, his elect, his bride, the remnant. You, (all freewillers) being completely spiritually dead and blind have no ability to understand the truths of the Bible. And you have no business telling the spiritually alive what the truths of the Bible are. Instead of listening to the spiritually alive (the actual Christians) you refuse to listen to them, you revile them, and accuse them because this is your destiny, what you were created to do. As I am sure you know, in the Bible those who accuse the actual Christians are called the devil, the accuser of the brethren (the actual Christians). There of course, is no such thing as the devil/satan and these words are only references to Godless mankind, and Godless mankind shows this clearly when they reject the truths of the Bible and accuse those who bring them the truth of Gods word as Clavin did, that they hate and accuse them as not being what they actually are. There are no people who are more Biblically illiterate, more willingly ignorant, and more opposed to the truth of the Bible than are those who claim to be Christians.
@@paulring86 ,...No, sorry, they do not! The Bible tells us God made two kinds of people, people with two different destiny's. He created 99+% of the people of the world as vessels of wrath and brute beasts made only to be destroyed, and the remaining few as his chosen ones, his elect, his bride, the remnant. You, (all freewillers) being completely spiritually dead and blind have no ability to understand the truths of the Bible. And you have no business telling the spiritually alive what the truths of the Bible are. Instead of listening to the spiritually alive (the actual Christians) you refuse to listen to them, you revile them, and accuse them because this is your destiny, what you were created to do. As I am sure you know, in the Bible those who accuse the actual Christians are called the devil, the accuser of the brethren (the actual Christians). There of course, is no such thing as the devil/satan and these words are only references to Godless mankind, and Godless mankind shows this clearly when they reject the truths of the Bible and accuse those who bring them the truth of Gods word as Clavin did, that they hate and accuse them as not being what they actually are. There are no people who are more Biblically illiterate, more willingly ignorant, and more opposed to the truth of the Bible than are those who claim to be Christians.
@Caleb-xf5yn Your probably will stay blind after this but my prayer is you wouldn't,please wake up There are 2 Gospels one is true one is false 1)Gospel(Good news) says:God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have everlasting life 2)Gospel(terrible news) says: God so loved the predestined elect that he sent his only son to die for those whom he chose before the foundations of the world to be at his side while he damned the rest to Hell Which ones the true gospel(Good news)?both can't be correct,one sides wrong the other is right Are these the same gospels? BE HONEST BEFORE GOD LIEINGS AN ABOMINATION If not then ones under a curse according to Galatians 1:6-9,which ever sides right must not fellowship with those who preach a false Gospel,and are we going to fail like the Corinthian church failed in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 an easily put up with those who preach a false gospel and another Jesus that has not be preached? Stop following popular Christianity and let's follow scripture The truth is IF YOUR a CALVINIST/REFORMED THEOLOGIAN and are HONEST YOU would have to come to the same conclusion I have and forsake fellowship with non Calvinist because they preach a different good news then the one you preach, if anyone is preaching opposite of what you may believe the true gospel is (Calvinism) then you can't consider non Calvinist saved according to galatians. Its very saddening that anyone holds this demonic view of God and I pray they repent, because it seems that in the same way the pharisees rejected Gods will for their lives and his knowledge so as to be saved is the same way many calvinist have been given over because they refuse to heed to true gospel for the sake of being apart of a bearded club of false Greek gnostic philosophy
@@ThePreacherman9yes the arminian gospel (at least your brand) is the biblically illiterate kind. The kind in which man is reliant on his wicked heart (Jeremiah 17:9) the kind that relies on the inability to understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) the kind reliant on the lover of darkness who DOES NOT come to the light (John 3:19-21) The kind reliant on the inescapable fallen nature of man detailed in Romans 3:9-23. The kind that relies on the mind of the lost which is hostile to God (Romans 8:7) What does your false gospel rely on regarding all the above? It relies on the flesh and the lost sinner to be other than he is by his own power, intellect, feeling, volition. It takes God’s word concerning the state of man and says “aha! But not so!” It reads Ephesians 2:8-9 where it says “not of yourselves” and replies “ah! But it is of myself!” Your brand of the gospel is a whore of a gospel. It is demonic. It is putrid filth. It glorifies the flesh and not God. It raises men up. Think of it. For the first 4 almost 500 years, the Christians almost wholly agreed with what you call “calvinists” (a name given by papists) and then catholicism came along. And what did it do? It elevated man over God. It said fhat the church was the authority. The pope did it. Their beliefs spiraled for the next 1000 years into the elevation of the created rather than the creator. Mary became divine along with Christ and the saints. Men chose to walk in God’s heavenly home without knocking it seems and walked out unscathed and as a result? Apostasy. Heresy. Abuse. Then one day, scholarly men who studied history and the word of God noticed the discrepancy. They called them out for it. They called for them to repent and turn back to the faith once handed down by the Apostles and God blessed them and empowered their work. No not any arminian. But those reformers who believed in God’s sovereignty and the power of God to save and keep saved. But of course, perversion came later, the filthy arminian. The one who wanted to keep their elevation of man while shaking off the shackles of the popery. Its absolutely disgusting. And here you are today, slandering the “calvinist” using the same arguments that atheists and catholics used and still used. Void of the Spirit. Void of scripture. Void of everything good except whatever indulges your flesh in the moment. You ought to repent but will you? Time will tell. What will God do? Are you His or are you not? Trust in Christ and be saved or die in your sins. Those are your options “Blessed is the one who you call, and who you make to come to you” - Psalm 65:4
Yep! Exactly the 5 pillars of Islam right there! You did prove it! Very well done. Next time please include the Sura references too. Christians need those so they can get right to converting....oh wait...NO NEED! My bad.
Question. All Christian’s believe (or should believe) in God’s sovereignty. The question is how you are defining it? We all believe that God is sovereign like a king is sovereign over his land but I think what Calvinist mean is more than that God is ruler but rather in addition to that is that God is determining everything that occurs in space and time including all our thoughts and desires. This is where the difference is. So to say God’s sovereignty settles the question is to engage in assuming what is at debate.
those who hate a Calvinist understanding of scripture love a contingent God and their idol is human 'free will' including the freedom to follow and obey Jesus. I'll assume that many are regenerate lover's of the promised Messiah Jesus but as is true of all men (including Christians) that we see through a glass darkly and if we knew the truth scripture teaches clearly and comprehensively we would pray to submit to God and align with grace and the Spirit's leading.
I don't need 45 minutes to show Calvinism is absolutely false. Acts 11 says that after Peter's testimony concerning the household of Cornelius, the apostles and beleivers glorified God saying. "Then to the Gentiles also God has* granted* repentance that leads to life.” We all know that repentance means to CHANGE YOUR MIND.
What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" is the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. Anything else is another gospel/christianity. Your manmade, freewill gospel is a fraud, the gospel of the accursed of God as you will all find out on judgement day. Repent!
6:15 - "What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory - even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" Romans 9:22-24
The fact is, 99+% of the worlds, and 100% of the churches population were created as vessels of wrath made only to be destroyed.
With much patience??
@@allaboutyeshua2606 ,...What is it you are confused about?
Those are nations. It has nothing to do with salvation
@@CoffeeWholeBean ,...Wrong! The vessels of wrath are not nations, they are all you fake christians that fill and make up everything known as the church.
What a panel 🔥
I do not understand how even Calvinists cannot, with confidence, immediately shun the notion of infant damnation.
Infant damnation is not supported in Scripture at all. At least not that I've seen. On the contrary, there are many passages that seem to praise children. Jesus said let the little children come to me. You must become like a child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. David seemed to think he would eventually go to be with his deceased child who was born of Bathsheba. There is a passage in Numbers (?) that escapes me at the moment, but it suggests that young children do not hold the same level of accountability and responsibility, because they were not penalized in the wilderness like their rebellious parents. The son will not be punished for the sins of the father. Even in Romans 9, it says something like, "before Jacob or Esau did anything good OR bad," suggesting that total depravity cannot mean that infants are born immediately guilty of committing sin. At the very least, many Calvinists need to rethink what total depravity means, because it's disgusting and unbiblical (imo) to think that non-elect babies are going to hell, which would imply that they are going to be punished under God's wrath for sins they did not commit. It has also caused unnecessary distress to mothers who are afraid their babies might die and go to hell. This is not a hard question, but unfortunately, the Calvinistic framework does make it a hard question.
At least we can agree that God will never commit an injustice against anyone.
@@SethYoderMusic Calvinistic baptists almost universally reject the idea that dead infants are cast into hell. It’s mainly the Presbyterian versions of Calvinism that vacillate on the issue.
You, like everyone else here are completely wrong about everything you believe. None of you have any actual Biblical understanding. Here is the truth of the Bible for your edification, all babies are conceived and born 100% spiritually dead. All babies/children if they die will be thrown into the lake of fire.
There is no case in the Bible of anyone being a Christian (saved person) until they were an adult. The 100% false unbiblical idea of babies/children not being thrown into the lake of fire only comes from the apostate church and from its antichrist chrtistianity.
Again, the whole problem is, you are completely spiritually dead as are all children and this makes you Biblically illiterate, as are all the people of all the churches. If they were not totally Biblically illiterate, they would not have anything to do with anything known as the church.
All those who reject "Calvinism" are all God haters, and are all hated by God. Repent!
Hey friend. I think a lot of Calvinists hold to "all are corrupted by Adams sin" instead of "all are guilty of Adams sin", based on the texts you cite. Meaning they don't believe babies that die in the womb go to hell.
@@jamesrichardson5187 I think that’s generally true
@@jamesrichardson5187must say all are guilty of adams sin original sin.
Which means babies and infants aborted babies go to hell
Babies are not condemned because of adams sin.
We are all judged on our own sin and babies have none.
No we all are cursed because of adams sin but that's way different.
So babies have no sin yet are subject to disease and death and have died in the millions. God Himself killed many of them in the flood, for instance. The Bible ties death to sin.
👇👇👇
Romans 5:12 NLT
_When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned._
So why do you believe babies have no sin again?
@@signposts6189 that's right babies have no sin whatsoever, tell me what sin they have committed?
They are subject to the curses which includes human death brought about to the whole earth because of Adam sin.
But they are not guilty of his sin and are innocent, if they die in infancy they go to be with the Lord not the devil.
Yes God destroyed the whole earth, the animals did not sin did they, no and neither did the babies.
Actually to preserve the human species and destroy fallen angel human hybrids after 120 years given to the adults to repent.
David's son died, not because the baby sinned and he will see his father in heaven.
Do you even hear yourself? I will pray for you, you seem to be more committed to a systematic like Calvinism then the actual word of God.
Please do not council someone who loses a child and don't claim to be against abortion while also saying these aborted babies go to hell.
That's just as crazy as James White saying God decrees and brings to past child rape where it has to come to past and your sin and evil thoughts and mind.
@@signposts6189Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are not guilty of if adams sin.
Adam nor your kids are guilty of your sin.
We each will be judged individually based on our own life sin and faith.
Yes Adams sin affected the whole world and your sin affects your family and kids but they and you are not guilty of adams sin.
We have sin of our own to deal with.
When you were saved you asked God to forgive you for your sin, not your mother's, not your fathers, and definitely not Adams.or at least I hope.
And he did and saved you specifically by grace through faith.
He did not save your kids or Adam through your repentance confession and faith, he saved you neither did he condemn you to hell based on Adams your kids or fathers sin.
@Tigerex966 Yet Romans 5:12 straight up tells you *_everyone sinned._* You need to find something in Romans that exempts babies from this golden rule. Please do tell... I'll wait
@signposts6189 it's not talking about babies who cannot yet talk walk crawl speak understand anything or know right from wrong understand the gospel.
Don't pretend you actually believe that's talking about babies in the womb because John Calvin says babies are doomed in the wind to hell or heaven before they are born by the false doctrine of double predestination
Why do Calvinists assume that understanding God starts with their presuppositions (TULIP)?
The God they describe is vastly different from the Father that Jesus revealed and the
narrative of the Bible does not align with the inquiries they make of it.
It is not merely a philosophy; it concerns a Living, interactive God.
Is God for humanity, desiring and yearning to restore fellowship with us,
or is He indifferent to humanity, so angered by sin that we should feel fortunate He even acknowledges us?
That is not my Jesus.
That is not my God.
Logical and theological reasoning is not incorrect, but there is nothing rational
about Calvinism when it is detached from their theology.
It is their premises that lack logic.
Calvinism does not align with the Bible;
it is so philosophical that they impose their philosophy onto the Scriptures.
Regarding OSAS, Salvation is about a relationship, not a formula.
You either have a relationship, in which case you are aware of it,
or you do not.
If a=b, then b must equal c. I doubt God would want us to interpret scripture in that manner,
yet that is what I frequently hear from Calvinists.
They must reinterpret scripture to conform to their presuppositions or established doctrines.
Non-Calvinists do not need to address the questions (c) because the premise (a=b) is flawed from the outset.
The flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit is the one who gives life. Do not work for things that are perishable, but work for things eternal, which the son of Man will GIVE to you. The work of God is to BELIEVE in the one who He sent. No one can come to the Son unless the Father draws him, and the Son will never not ever cast him out. You can't even see the kingdom of God unless you are born again. The wind blows, hear it but you don't know where it came from or where it's going; so is everyone is born of the Spirit. My sheep hear my voice and they follow, you don't believe because you are not of my sheepfold. God so loved the world that whoever BELIEVES in the Son shall be saved. I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation.
You say a Calvinist brings philosophy into the biblical text. I just gave you the gospel with verses pieced together from various texts in John. (In every context Jesus is speaking of eternal salvation.)
Show us the verse that says..
"Thou shalt have a relationship with God to be saved."
Now if you were honest with yourself you'd admit that you are bringing your OWN philosophy into the text and interpreting from that lens. While the statement "Christianity is a relationship" isn't necessarily untrue, it's unable to capture the biblical expression of fellowship with God. What that is in the mind must be trained by the testimony of Scripture then lived out BY FAITH.
Stick to the words of Scripture and you can't go wrong.
We believe the Gospel, thus we are saved unto good works, living a life of spiritual sacrifices pleasing to our God who in His great mercy gave us what we did not deserve. Salvation is unmerited, always by GRACE, and without receiving a new heart from God Himself (Jer 31), we are totally unable to walk in His ways. In all this we have full confidence that our God is able to save us and bring the good work He started in us to completion. By faith, unified to Christ, evident by the Holy Spirit's dwelling in our hearts.
I'll say it again, I AM NOT ASHAMED OF GOSPEL.
So why are you? Is it wrong for God to choose who He saves? Do all go to heaven, or do many go to hell? Did God declare the beginning from the end of not? Do you not choose people in your life to receive a special kind of love reserved for no one else? Wrestle with the truth friend.
God choosing us in Christ is the most personal act of love and acceptance EVER. If "your Jesus" didn't choose you from the foundation of the world, then you certainly don't have the Jesus of the Scriptures in your heart.
Where does the Bible teach salvation is about relationship?
Salvation is about being justified by faith which then brings us into relationship with God
TULIP was a response to Jacob Arminius' 5 points....
Calvinist introspection and questioning of themselves is more rare than a spotted unicorn.
Bro proceeds to give us a formula for salvation he calls a relationship. 😅😂😂
Wow they can't say babies don't go to hell
Unbelievable evil, this is sad 😮😢
Not enough data?
Of course, they can't say for sure babies don't go to hell. If you think it is "unbelievably evil," here is a question for you:
What happened to the babies and pregnant women in Sodom and Gomorrah when God rained fire and brimstone on those twin cities?
@signposts6189 the babies go to be with their maker they are innocent of any sin.
Name one they did?
Of such is the kingdom of heaven...as Jesus says.
These men or more committed to a manmade Plato Augustine and gnostic based demonic manmade systematic then the Bible
Babies do not go to hell, are you even serious?
We are to love God with all our mind. God is the logos. We are to use our God given logic in understanding God and His Word not unbiblical man-made theologies like Augustinian-Calvinism.
Which command from God says to use our logic
@@jamestoo1517 James, ..........the mind................develop your EQ James, if you're willing.
@@titosantiago3694 yes that’s what we are commanded.to do from God , not what you can do to understand him( with human logic) . So have you done that ? Have you loved him with your heart mind and soul perfectly?
@jamestoo1517 "not with human logic?" Being that God (the logos) created humans in his image (meaning humans have been given logic), so we are image bearers of God who are human with reason and logic, and you're saying we're somehow not to use our God given human faculties to discern truth-but yet you want me to set my God-given human reason and logic aside and listen to some other man's human logic (like yours or others) of his/their man-made human theology, doctrines, and opinions and trust them as true is completely incoherent and self-implodes with contradiction.
@jamestoo1517 The reality that God the Creator (Logos) created us in His image as image bearers with God-given reason and logic. Otherwise, He wouldn't command us to "Love Him with our our MIND."
BDAG Lexicon
mind-dionia-the faculty of thinking, comprehending, and reasoning, understanding, intelligence
I would say that Scripture interpreting Scripture does show that God does desire none perish and IS self sufficient and we don't need bodyguards to protect His glory from being tainted or to protect His people from Himself.... Bible does say that His people perish due to a lack of knowledge...this same knowledge can come from a proper fear of the Lord...beginning of wisdom.
He desires that none perish. And that all would repent. He is not a robot and needs not force grace or belief. Love wouldn't be genuine and nor would obedience....if so....even satan would have claim to be given a crown of obedient follower of God ....😏🤪🙃
All that and still we have the sins being forgiven of the ignorant and God so loving the world and Jesus not condemning the world...but saving it through Him.
Are these not also the character of God?
How do you TULIP folks determine how God interprets those that are leading people to stray or sin or stumble ...if everyone is predetermined to go where they are going and how? TULIP seems to point all the problems back at God no different than Adam blamed God for the reason they were hiding...blamed the woman that God made listening to the serpent (that God made) that offered her the fruit that the tree (that God made) produced....and for His glory to be shown they hid from Him????
How do you interpret that part of Scripture that points out that nobody will die for another's sin? Like a father for their child's sin or a child for their father's sin....?
Do you see God as a Wrathful God in a hurry and race to destroy His creation faster than satan? Or even ourselves?
Seems as though the panel wasn't all that diverse...
As far as the gov't goes... it IS placed by God...but (rightly dividing the truth) it became faulty like in Jeremiah where the clay BECAME corrupt....not forced that way to begin with)
But this gov't has fallen in love with the mammon and it is a root of all kinds of evil...but the gov't is not the replacement Savior....
God's Only Son Permits Eternal Life!
😇🙏💪
You have spoken in total ignorance exposing your unsaved, spiritually dead, blind, lost, and deceived state, as well as to why you have been snared into the Godless worlds 100% false, manmade, antichrist, freewill gospel.
God desires that none of his chosen ones that are less than 1% of the worlds population should not perish, not anyone else.
God absolutely, 100% forces the very, very, very few who he has chosen to believe. The few who actually believe were all 100% forced to believe. Just like those like you are forced not to believe. God is the one in control here, not you or me. Who do you think you are to question God? God does not answer to you or to any other man. Go and read Job Ch. 38 and Ch. 40.
The fact is, you know nothing and are nothing but a brute beast made only to be destroyed, and this is precisely why you have been snared into the Godless worlds antichrist freewill gospel. All you freewillers are all God haters and are all hated by God as you will all find out on judgement day.
@@mrupholsteryman Amen
this was great- thank you
Most Calvinist, “ Our interpretation of Rom 9; Eph 1, John 6.44 and several other verses… repeated again and again and again. “ while ignoring and dismissing the majority of scripture regarding salvation. A Calvinist will tell you that their interpretation of a handful of verses is all that matters and they will unfortunately ignore any verses that contradict their interpretations. The saddest thing is that they cannot see that their interpretation does not accurately reflect Gods true character.
If Calvinism is an accurate understanding, then there are no avoidable outcomes, & nothing, including deception that will alter outcomes,i.e. salvation of the ‘elect’.
Deception is NOT associated with risk to ultimate outcome.
Why would it be that we are warned many times against deception in the Bible?
And you will not get meaningful engagement regarding this or in addressing reasonable questions. It’s both frustrating and frankly a bit disturbing. When you point out the obvious detriment to God’s character their system practically demands, they will point to some ‘atrocity’ in the Old Testament like Jepthah’s daughter or Saul’s sons handed over to the Gibeonites, to in a way acknowledge something we all see as horrible (as the surface understanding at least) to prove that they do see problems with God’s character from the text but then fall back to our inability to recognize good and bad (our depravity) &or the idea that whatever God does is by definition good. Basically their system handles everything and anything and their hope is in their election to an eternal destiny of bliss not worrying about what many see as plain injustice lack of goodness & kindness in the part of God, based on our innate sensibilities applied to their systematic.
This pushes good people away from God, but this doesn’t worry many or any because ‘none are good’ and none of the ‘(reformed) elect’ will be lost, and so it continues and is practically impervious to any questioning or rationale, a terrible yet brilliant mind-trap.
@ 100%!!
Stephen Wellum, author of the best book in Christology: God the Son Incarnate. Huge respect to him.
Min 5:00
Why are we born under condemnation and fallen in such a way that we unable to respond positively to the Gospel appeal?
Thanks 👍
Total depravity does not mean total inability. That's what "calvinist" pour into scripture yet it cannot be found. They do it to make thier theology work. IMO.
@Manofwar7 💯 in agreement 🤝
Romans 5 teaches that Adam represented all of mankind. When Adam sinned we all sinned in him. Psalm 51:5 teaches that we are born sinners. Due to our slavery to sin(John8) Jesus teaches that we are unable to respond to the Gospel call (John 6:44). Now, as to why that is, the only answer is because God ordained it to be that way. God resigns all to sin so that He may receive 100 percent of the glory for the salvation of those that He has chosen, redeemed, and caused to be born again (Ephesians 1:4, 2:1-10).
@TwitchyTheologian So the nature that one is born with, one that is fallen, under condemnation, and will always reject God and on thier way to hell is one that God Himself decreed for man to be born with correct?
So God makes all men sinners with an inability to respond positively to the Gospel call so that He can get glory for saving a few and sending the rest to hell correct?
Nothing in John 6:44 says man is unable to respond positively to the Gospel call just that they need to be called 😉
Thanks 👍
What an encouragement to see the growth of those who confront and call out calvinism. Jesus is smiling. Thank you for your post.👍👍
I have a God who left His glory and came to earth, became one of us, so we can be saved. The God you describe is very narcissist; you speak a lot of "for his glory". He did not chose all humanity for his own glory. He leaves so many to go to hell just because is so narcissist. This doesn't looks like my God.
2:26 - Is it really any different if God "knows that someone will choose to reject Christ", yet He creates them anyway knowing that He will send them to hell?
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the false manmade unbiblical idea that God knows who will choose him. God created 99% of the people of the world to be brute beasts made only to be destroyed. These are who fill all the apostate churches that all have no idea what the truth, the gospel, or the Christianity of the Bible actually is.
2 Peter 2:12
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"
Jude 1:10
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."
Romans 9:22
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
Calvinists always start with philosophy and logic based on presuppositions. They rarely are capable of handling scripture in its correct context. They favour eisegesis over exegesis
?? is this projection, it's the exact opposite lol
@ give me a scripture and let’s test it. Or what about Eph 1:4, does the pure text and text alone say we are predestined and chosen “to be” in Christ, or days it say we are chosen and predestined “in Him”. Do you see how there could be a major difference as to what this means? Presupposition of the Calvinist adds the “to be” to prove their point when itv isn’t in the text. Let’s hear what you have to say about exegesis of this verse?
@ Instead of asking me to explain what this verse means as if I'm a biblical scholar, why wouldn't you explain how it goes against the Calvinistic view? That's what this debate is about after all.
@@matts.6558simply put He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.
Since the choice was made before we existed to make choices there doesn't seem to be any other way to see it. Either way we weren't there making choices and He knew the choices before the foundation of the world, He doesn't learn from us what choice we will make. So either interpretation is His choosing as to who the 'us' is.
I’m afraid every theological perspective relies on presuppositions and logic. Watch a debate between a covenant theologian and a dispensationalist, or between a credobaptist and a paedobaptist, or between a young earth creationist and a theistic evolutionist. They all revolve around different presuppositions and different logical premises.
Calvinism gets it backwards when it comes to the salvation of infants. Jesus died for everyone including all infants. Salvation is by grace alone, but grace can be resisted. People go to hell because they resist God's grace. Infants are unable to resist God's grace. Therefore, children who die in infancy are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
@@DanielBShaw did u watch the video? We covered this
@Bibledingers I watched the video. You covered the topic, but there were a lot of uncertainties and caveats.
So, you therefore believe regeneration precedes faith. Since babies can't exercise faith.
@@josephconkle3947 I believe faith and regeneration occur simultaneously. Faith is a gift from God, not an act of the will.
@DanielBShaw how can babies exercise faith to be regenerated?
18:04 Since Jesus says the angels of the "little ones" daily behold the face of God, how could they be in a state of condemnation?
If you read from the beginning of chapter 18 it is actually clear from the context He is referring to believers being the children of God, not just little children. Verses 3 and 4 are where this comparison is made.
Thank you for the question that was based in scripture and not just emotional opinion, that is how we should all approach these difficult topics.
@ChristisLord2023 Yeah, it really does seem to hand the baton off to believers, metaphorical little children, after having begun with the literal little children.
You simply do not at all understand the Bible. Same as ALL the other people snared into the church.
@DeletedShadowbanned-m5u snared?
I think that requires an explanation, especially since the statement indicates that you understand better.
@@ChristisLord2023 ,..Yes, of course. All the people of ALL the churches have been snared into the church that is all 100% apostate. The church is a trap and no actual Christian is snared by it. Only those who do not belong to God can become snared into the apostate church and into its antichrist christianity.
There are two Christianity's, one real and the other fake. What everything known as the church preaches/sells is the antichrist christianity of the Godless people of the Godless world. The other Christianity that is made up of the few who Jesus came to save all have nothing whatsoever to do with anything known as the church. The real church is a spiritual church, not a physical church.
Great men of faith to speak with and speak theology, and being willful servants and slaves to the one true God Father Son and Spirit!
thankful for the conversation 🙏
Jeremy, your vacant platitudes and assuaging ascension of cult quippers , still did not merit a tulip sticker for your MacArthur study bible.
“God looks at who He wants to save”???? But God in His mercy, He chooses some to be saved.”
You must not be able to hear yourself. It’s Glorious for God to CHOOSE who He wants to elect, but you have to admit He chooses who He doesn’t want… FACTs! You hide behind,” Well He’s God!”. But you’ve defined Gods attributes by making these claims… Don’t apply logic. Haha Run from these guys!
I can prove Calvinism is false in ten seconds. Because if Calvinism were true, the word “if” would not be in the Bible.
😂
That’s silly.
"If" is our perspective because we aren't God. God's perspective tive is "since".
@ That’s funny. The god of Calvinism, who is also the author of all evil, needs to put the word “if” in the Bible, even though this phoney religion posits that everything is predetermined, and we are too stupid to see why…. Yeah…. Nice religion. Keep these explanations coming! Great entertainment and demonstration of cognitive dissonance! Haha.
Smack on and all these Calvinist don’t even know what your talking about, it’s like a cult man!
Romans 3 does NOT teach that all men outright reject and cannot even choose the mercy of God. Rather in it’s correct context and quoting of the Psalms, it teaches nobody, whether Jew or Gentile, is righteous under the Law, which whether Jew or Gentile, all men one this because the Law is written in our conscience, so whether written it is written down like it was for the Jews, all men know of their sin. This flows perfectly from Romans 2, and Roman’s 1 where Paul states all men should know God exists because of physical creation and are without excuse.
Romans 3 in no way teaches men are totally incapable of seeking after God and accepting the gospel. Acts 17 completely disagrees with the idea of total inability to seek God.
Extremely helpful.
Romans 1 doesn't say everyone "should" know God exists, it says everyone "DOES" know.
See, your philosophy lead you to the wrong interpretation of scripture. Which leads you to the wrong conclusion of Romans 3.
@@josephconkle3947 I would actually be fine with somebody taking it further and saying Romans 1 says everyone "does know", that only strengthens my argument and aligns with what I already wrote.
@@josephconkle3947 Mind exegeting and providing your interpretation of Acts 17:24-27 and how this jives with Calvinism?
“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
@matts.6558 actually it magnifies your error. Romans 3 says there are NONE who seek after God.
You have to twist the meaning and tell us what it DOESN'T SAY to give it a different meaning.
That's text book eisegesis.
I’m not a Calvinist and I think there were some more fundamental issues that needs to be addressed prior to even having the tulip conversation ie determinism vs libertarian freedom as that’s the interpretative grid that these conversations and reading of these texts seem to be had in. However, I appreciate this discussion 😊
Love the comment! I wrote a paper in college on that topic, as a Calvinist. What exactly are the starting points you are referring to?
@@loganbaumstark8950 well, it seems to me and all others who aren’t committed to a Calvinist is interpretation of the text that determinism can’t be right because people are told to choose and are rewarded and punished based on their actions.
For the Calvinist this is somewhat a difficultly on a number of issues but in particular salvation. The reason for this is because though, yes one can have an infralapsarian interpretation of God’s election ie he chooses from fallen humanity who will be saved and therefore is just in not choosing others as they will get what they justly deserve in judgment. The problem is that on a deterministic reading of the scriptures would also mean that God determined the fall of humanity.
So a picture of this would be an arsenist setting on fire a house full of people and then going in and saving “some people” and not all people and still being seen as just because he didn’t have to save the others. This is the Calvinist dilemma that they didn’t discuss which I think is the interpretive grid being used. So though the non determist has to answer a similar question ie God creates knowing the choices of humanity, the Calvinist dilemma is sharper when it comes to God’s character and relationship with evil even the evil he commands us not to do! Bless
What are the preconditions to faith and salvation in your view?
@@collin501 hi Collin, well this is the crux of the matter I’m not a theological determinist so this is really a question that presupposes a deterministic cause. But one way I would answer the question asked is the preconditions are one that a person is made in the image of God which includes a moral compass to understand (to a degree) moral realities and therefore they are aware of their own sinfulness (something that many unbelievers are aware of ie we have courts and laws that prevent and punish bad behaviour) and 2 the conviction of the Holy Spirit (which is not irresistible) through the proclamation of the Gosple.
@@paulsemakula8600 I’m not necessarily presupposing a deterministic cause. It depends on how you interpret Isaiah 6:9-10 and Mathew 13:11-15. How can people “grow dull of hearing“? Being able to hear would be a precondition to believing, would it not? What about humility?
“For you save a humble people, but the haughty eyes you bring down.”
Psalm 18:27
“Good and upright is the Lord; therefore he instructs sinners in the way. He leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble his way.”
Psalm 25:8-9
Pride is a barrier to being instructed. If you’re not instructed, then how can you believe? How would you say are people humbled, so that they will be saved?
There are different types of soil that the seed falls into. Some are suitable for the seed to grow and be fruitful. Some are not. Note that at least on average, it is the lowly of the world that are saved.
“For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,”
1 Corinthians 1:26, 28
as a calvinist they didnt prove calvinism but enjoyed the discussion on various topics. these are good, godly men. ptL.
That is because none of these guys are Christians. Just because someone claims to be a Calvinist or is willing to go along with it does NOT make them a Christian.
23:38 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God” Deuteronomy 29:29
If there is any question mark over the cross in respect of God's character - all that it would take for there to be a question mark over the cross is if we could not identify which part of God's unchanging character (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8) is responsible for both showing mercy and NOT showing mercy - this while God is supposedly unchanging in mercy - then all of Christianity falls.
Here are verses which show that each TULIP doctrine - and original sin - is false doctrine.
Original sin - Deuteronomy 1:39, Isaiah 7:16
Total depravity - Mark 12:34, Acts 17:22-23
Unconditional election - 2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 3:12-14
Limited atonement - Romans 5:18, Acts 10:34-35
Irresistible grace - 2 Corinthians 6:1
Perserverance of the saints - see the verses for Unconditional election and also Matthew 24:13.
If anyone reading my post cannot see how the verses I present PROVE each Calvinist doctrine to be false - please reply to this post stating the doctrine for which you would like to have a more detailed explanation.
What does Deuteronomy 1:39 and Isaiah 7:16 have to do with the doctrine of original sin?
@@signposts6189Hello - every believer that I have ever met believes that human beings are sinners - the question is HOW we all came to be sinners.
Original sin says that we all became sinners due to our all being inclined towards sin from birth due to our being descendants of Adam.
Deuteronomy 1:39 shows that children below a certain age do not have the necessary understanding - and therefore state of heart - to be sinners. And Isaiah 7:16 shows that children below a certain age do not have the necessary bodily autonomy - or understanding - it isn't clear exactly which - these existing only after the early years of life - to be sinners.
The only way that original sin survives these verses is if sinning is only about doing the act - not about someone's state of heart and mind. But if this were so it would mean that we must conclude that Jesus was as angry with the woman at the well as he was with the Pharisees who he called a brood of vipers. Which is ridiculous - it is clear that Jesus' response to the sin of each sinner is not the same. Therefore original sin is false doctrine.
@philipjbenjamin Deuteronomy 1:39 specifically exempts the young children from their parents who _"... rebelled against the command of the LORD your God and refused to go in. You complained in your tents and said, ‘The LORD must hate us. That’s why He has brought us here from Egypt-to hand us over to the Amorites to be slaughtered."_ (Deuteronomy 1:26-27 NLT)
Isaiah 7:15 has God using a conventional way of speaking about children saying _"By the time this child is old enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong, he will be eating yogurt and honey."_ (Isaiah 7:15 NLT).
Again, what the heck does any of this have to do with the doctrine of original sin?
@@signposts6189 The Deuteronomy verse does more than say the children are exempt. It says WHY they are - they are exempt because they (ESV) "have no knowledge of good or evil". It doesn't merely say they didn't do the evil their parents did.
The Isaiah verse may be a conventional way of speaking - that doesn't change the fact that the verse reveals that children know how to refuse the evil and choose the good a good deal of time AFTER birth.
I won't be engaging from here - I believe that you have already demonstrated in your reply a wish to be deliberately stupid - to deliberately refuse to see what is right in front of you.
Does God determine everything even their freewill choices so not to be dependent on their choice? Who determined for Adam and Eve to fall?
The double predestination question can be applied to the arminian viewpoint as well. We should discuss this sometime, fellas! Love the work you do though.
Same with the question regarding the children. Only in this case it is more troubling for the Arminians. And they usually think this is a gotcha.
Calvinism is an insult to the character of God obscured by a focus on flaws of man.
@
Not sure why that’s funny….
I deleted my comment because I should ask you, first, to explain what you mean here instead of simply interpreting your comment to say: "Calvinism focuses on the flaws of man". I think I got that wrong.
@
That’s fair, let me explain what I’m getting at;
The natural reaction to first hearing that God chooses individuals for salvation (everlasting life) and eternal damnation ( either directly or indirectly ‘passing over them’ and this before any have done either good or bad is often to recoil and in horror &or disgust perhaps, state that this is not only unjust but even cruel and unloving.
Rather than acknowledge the validity of such an assessment it’s disallowed or made to be invalid /irrelevant as we are told how terrible and depraved mankind is, so bad in fact that we cannot recognize the goodness of God in our ‘fallen state’ a condition so often described as total depravity. The state of all mankind we are told as a consequence of Adam & Eve’s sin in the garden. A condition ultimately determined by God as all things are in perfect accord with his eternal decree. All of reality is exhaustively deterministic.
If a person acknowledges what Calvinism portrays about God as not good, the ability of that person (and mankind in general) to recognize good and evil accurately is generally attacked by claiming mankind’s total depravity often quoting Romans 3 as ‘proof’.
I’d like to add more but for now, I think this helps clarify what I was getting at.
@ Ok. I am still not sure of your point but I'm tracking with you as far as it goes. Can't tell what your position is but I like to describe what we are dealing with is that we obviously choose who we will serve. Our choices are real. We are not coerced or forced to choose against our own will. But God knows, intimately, all things and yet He is not the author of sin. He does determine before time began a people for Himself. Not all, but a number and these God so loved that He died for, sacrificing Himself for the sins we have done paying for them on the cross. To these He gives of His Spirit whereby declaring we can do all things thru Him who gives us strength. We look to Him for our sustenance and do not swerve to the right or to the left until we see Him in His Glory that He has had from the beginning with the Father. This is the story of the Gospel. This is the story every faithful believer, having the faith of Abraham, will come to reality at the end. To them He disciplines and perfects us thru many hardships and testings proving us faithful. This is what "Calvinism" embodies as a theology and of which I hold to.
@@joeadrian2860
Thanks for the reply, before addressing what you sent please address what I sent. And to briefly describe again the point I made;
Calvinism’s portrayal of God is, (if no further explanation is provided) received by practically all at first as unjust and unloving, even cruel. The further explanation provided by Calvinism which supposedly undoes this assessment is that mankind is so totally depraved that he cannot recognize the goodness of God.
God looks really bad but in actuality man is bad, so bad that he can’t recognize that God as described is actually good.
So, this is why I say Calvinism is an insult to the character of God (It portrays God as unjust, unloving, even cruel) BUT this is obscured by focusing on the flaws of man (total depravity).
Calvinism mischaracterizes God and the ability of man to the detriment of many.
Proving Calvinism as true is like proving that Santa Claus is real. Not possible.
What???? Santa isn’t real? Say it ain’t so!!!!
Santa is more real 😅 Saint Nicholas is santa. 🎅🏽
@@toddstevens9667 Don't worry. He's real; I know. Because i left a plate of cookies for him on Xmas eve , and on Xmas morning they were GONE!
your take on the Godhead sounds a lot like modalism.
Honest question after reaching the 10:54 mark. I don't consider myself a Calvinist, but we agree that God will get glory from also displaying wrath and justice, and that He was not obligated to save even one man. With these two premises in mind, would Christ's crucifixion still have served its purpose of reconciling all things to God (like it says in Colossians 1) even if all men would have rejected His offer by their ability to freely choose?
In other words, is there another purpose Christ's death/resurrection would have served even if all humanity rejected it?
Hopefully that makes sense. It's a fairly complex question that I'm having trouble wording succinctly.
You're implying that Christ's atoning work on the cross can actually save no one.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
The problem with libertarian free will is that it makes people's choices or destinies completely uncertain.
But we are told in Matt 7:13-14 that there will certainly be some who will be saved.
Why are you asking and concerned with such a non relevant question? What you need to be concerned with is your 100% fake antichrist christianity. You do not even know what the gospel is or what the Christianity of the Bible is.
Get away from everything that claims to be the church and throw out all the unbiblical nonsense the 100% apostate church has indoctrinated you with and read the Bible yourself only! Do not ever listen to anyone from any church, not ever.
@@4jchan I agree that, in reality (non-hypothetically) there are people who will be saved by Christ's atoning work. (Thank God!!!) I've heard before that love cannot be pure or true if it is coerced, but that it must be freely given. I tend to agree, though I can't point to a biblical passage to prove such. But that idea makes sense to me.
The Bible in various places describes our eternal reward with the qualifier that WE love Him.
For example, Romans 8:28 - "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
Or James 1:12 - "Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him."
But in Calvinism, nobody wants to positively respond to the Gospel, so God has to regenerate them first (against their will) so that they will love Him. It doesn't seem like true love if God has to alter their very nature so that they will then love Him.
@@SethYoderMusic I disagree. The claim that for love to be genuine it has to be free in the sense that it must be possible to reject God in order to be possible to love God. That is the free will defense which doesn't really explain WHY there is ACTUAL evil but only that evil must be POSSIBLE in order to have the possibility to love.
But libertarian free will denies that motives exist. There is no reason as to why we choose what we choose. So you wouldn't be able to say that you take care of your wife BECAUSE you love her. You cannot be motivated by love if motives don't exist.
Since God does regenerate people's heart to love him it is real love because the heart is what determines our choices or actions. This is genuine love because it's motivated by love. If you don't believe that God can change a person's heart then how do you explain the fact that in the next life we will love God perfectly without ever sinning? And it is due to the fact that we will be made perfect by the Holy Spirit. So not having the ability to reject God does not negate genuine love for God.
Ok, I see your point about being perfected by the HS so that we can love perfectly. That’s a good point. But I’m guessing that saying libertarian free will denies the existence of motives is on the level of saying Calvinism makes us all robots. That seems like a gross misrepresentation of what libertarian free will would teach, but I don’t actually know much at all about LFW, so maybe what you say regarding the motives thing is a fundamental component of their argument. 🤷🏼♂️
Dave Hunts video WHAT LOVE IS THIS, book too,
I read that book. I threw it away. Just plain nonsense.
@@toddstevens9667 lol. If you think Dave hunts book is nonsense than you are beyond saving.
Give me one example of something in his book that you think is nonsense
I read it 20 years ago. And threw it away. So I don’t remember much. But what sticks out in my mind is his attack on Calvin himself. Since Calvin died before Calvinism was created by Beza, I thought he didn’t do much research before writing the book. Calvinism is a reaction to Arminius’s attacks that happened after Calvin died.
But I will tell you that I’m not a Calvinist. I believe 1 of the five points. I completely deny the T, the U, the L, and the I of TULIP. And my understanding of P is probably very different than the Calvinist understanding of P.
I just thought Hunt’s book was weak, shallow, and not well researched.
Calvinism is an insult to the character of God obscured by a focus on flaws of man.
Looks like y’all knew how to title this video to get the most views. Lol. But I love these three theologians. I’m currently reading Ware’s The Man Christ Jesus. Excellent book. These scholars are so much more than just Calvinists. They are first-rate scholars.
@@toddstevens9667 absolutely! Lol
You should bring me on to prove Calvinism. I’m basically a professional at it at this point lol 😂
Calvinisim:
God picked people to be saved in eternity past, but still requires them to believe in his son who died for them only. At the same time granting them the belief they need to believe, because they can't believe, even though he tells them to believe. Then he makes sure they continue to believe, even though they were chosen to believe.Then he tells them to go into all the world and find the others he had picked to believe, because they can’t believe, even though they were chosen to believe.
I think its ok to defend Gods character in the face of an absence of scripture ,I would rather comfort a grieving mother by voicing the goodness and mercy of God than to say " nope ,burning in hell"since the scripture does not say babies are damned .
Let's see if I can make this extremely simple for everyone regarding double predestination and sovereign election. I hope this helps:
God grants everyone born into the world providence, which is called COMMON grace and mercy. However, He only gives, by His sovereign will, SALVIFIC grace and mercy to whom He wishes. The rest, as it were, live solely in providence.
Still nope. I’d rather be dead than Calvinist.
You'd rather be dead than believe the truth the bible brings? that's scary
I find it amazing the lack of depth the theologians have on imputed righteousness. How much of Jesus's life did you work? How much of Adam's sin was imputed to you? Was Grace completely free? Is sin only the work of the hands or of the heart
Step 1 for proving Calvinism: Make sure your panelists are actually Calvinists.
Bruce Ware’s a sweet man and loves the Lord (more than I ever will!). But he’s no Calvinist (he rejects particular redemption).
The first question makes me chill. God created Adam and Eve, but that they have sinned and its in human nature we go agaist God. But God loves humanity that he sacrificed his own Son not because we deserve it but because of His great mercy and grace, those people He seprated for Him, He change the disposition of their heart and sustain it. If you want fairness and judgement, no one is going to heaven, so he shown mercy to who he shown mercy, he loves Jacob but hates Esau, despite the fact that both still in their mothers womb. God is not heartless, He is full of Love, People cant even understand He is a Soveriegn God, He select.and seprate as He pleases. All of these what i mentioned here are all in the Holy Scripture
So if you have a family who comes in and has lost a child you will tell them "Hey I know you lost your child but...they could be in hell, they could be in heaven...I dont really know...SORRY!" Got it I will mark and acoid your teachings!
Calvinists don’t have to say any such thing because Calvinists
A: Don’t believe infants who die are non elect
B: Don’t take a stance of the salvation of older children or claim an unbiblical “age of accountability”
C: Understand that the scripture alone informs a person of their own salvation so that they have assurance of said salvation.
We can only speak on what may seem to be or not seem to be regarding someone’s salvation status. Punishment for sin is dependent upon what a person knows and it is God who determines when that is for everyone. Simultaneously, because we Trust God, unlike you, we understand that even if God does damn infants to hell for being born sinners (as scripture says of them) He is good, right, Holy, and just for doing so.
Calvinism is false! There are no bible verses that say Calvinist distinctives. Election, predestination, and chosen, it's never in regards to salvation but to a specific work. Therefore, what God is really choosing before the foundation of the world is exactly what the Bible says chosen to be holy, blameless, etcetera. Just keep reading.
Lol
What you fail to understand is, you, and all those like you, are reading the Bible as a spiritually dead and blind person. You do not have the ability to understand the Bible. You only have the ability to misunderstand the Bible. And this is precisely why you are a freewiller and fail to understand the truth of the Bible that Calvin understood.
You do not just have the gospel/salvation all wrong, everything you believe and hold to is Biblically incorrect. Your whole fake antichrist christianity is all a manmade fraud. Repent!
Nah, you’re making too much sense. You clearly haven’t watched enough Mcarthur sermons.
You need to read more scripture (AKA Systematic Theology)
Actually, the exact opposite of what you stated is the truth. The ONLY way anyone can come to the 100% unbiblical conclusion of the freewill gospel is to be a spiritually dead and blind person who has been deceived by spiritually dead and blind leaders the apostate church.
What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" comes only from the Bible and from an actual understanding of the Bible. Your antichrist (another) gospel only comes from listening to and being deceived by the blind guides of the 100% apostate church.
There is no one (an actual Christian) who understands what Calvin understood that came to that conclusion after reading Calvin. They all already understood it. Again, if you were not completely spiritually dead and accursed of God you would know this truth.
What you fail to understand is, you, and all those like you, are reading the Bible as a spiritually dead and blind person. You do not have the ability to understand the Bible. You only have the ability to misunderstand the Bible. And this is precisely why you are a freewiller and fail to understand the truth of the Bible that Calvin understood.
You do not just have the gospel/salvation all wrong, everything you believe and hold to is Biblically incorrect. Your whole fake antichrist christianity is all a manmade fraud. Repent!
Guys, include replies to comments when you tally comments up, and you'll see YT's comments tally is correct, and comments aren't being erased by the hosts. 🎉
@@mariomene2051 we don’t delete comments ever.
@Bibledingers Sometimes, when edited, an "edit not saved" (slt) error appears when submitting edit--it just got deleted (not by the host). 🎉
@@mariomene2051 we’re a page that welcomes debates and gracious conversations. Everyone has a bias BUT we welcome dialogue. We wouldn’t delete comments just because we don’t agree with their points.
Actually, the RUclips AI removes comments too. Often, it doesn’t even allow comments to post.
@@Bibledingers ,.."we don’t delete comments ever."
This is because I have not commented yet here. When I begin to comment, you will be doing a lot of deleting as when the actual truth of Gods word appears, you will all be offended by it.
The Bible is clear that salvation is offered to all men, YET all men reject God and none will seek after Him. Therefore He graciously has mercy on some in spite of ourselves and gives us a new heart and put His Spirit within us.
Romans 3 does NOT teach that all men outright reject and cannot even seek or choose the mercy of God. Rather in it’s correct context and quoting of the Psalms, it teaches nobody, whether Jew or Gentile, is righteous under the Law, which whether Jew or Gentile, all men know this because the Law is written on our conscience, so whether it is written down like it was for the Jews, or whether written intangibly in the case of gentiles, all men know of their sin. This flows perfectly from Romans 2, and Roman’s 1 where Paul states all men should know God exists because of physical creation and are without excuse.
Romans 3 in no way teaches men are totally incapable of seeking after God and accepting the gospel. Acts 17 completely disagrees with the idea of total inability to seek God.
This cannot be so - without the conclusion having to be that God is not merciful.
If a man is respectful to women on odd days of the year - but not on even days of the year - cannot be called respectful to women - then a 'god' who is merciful sometimes - but not at other times - cannot be called merciful. And therefore Calvinism is primary doctrinal failure. It's that simple. (Calvinists argue that no-one deserves mercy - but while this is true - it is irrelevant - we aren't talking about what people deserve - we are talking about the way God behaves).
@matts.6558 it's not inability. It's unwillingness
@philipjbenjamin " Who are you, oh man, who answers back to God?
@@EDCREVIEWSwith respect, the phrase is total inability. They are unable because they are unwilling that is true. They are unwilling bc they have evil hearts. I’m a Calvinist. I’m just making sure people understand what you are saying.
Good podcast. I will learn more about calvinism; so far I think they have good arguments but it's not the fullness of Truth.
@@chuchucaa brother, we are all learning. Keep reading the word. Let us know how we can pray for you
He doesn't pick for hell but leaves them cause He foreknows who wouldn't believe
Disproving Calvinism you mean???
The Synod of Dort, where the Arminian position was put on trial and they refused to defend their position of freewill salvation…
The Synod, however, very properly, reminded him ... that, as the Remonstrants were accused of departing from the Reformed faith, they were bound first to justify themselves, by giving Scriptural proof in support of their opinions. The Arminians would not submit to this plan of procedure because it destroyed their whole scheme of argument ... and were thus compelled to withdraw. Upon their departure, the Synod proceeded without them.[
(I am a calvinist) But I would like you to Send me your source. I can’t find any of what you claim.
@ Look up the Synod of Dort. This was from an abstract of the Synod.
actually Jesus did not say they committed miracles and did good works and cast out demons in his name ,they said that about themselves ,for they were deceived .this teaching really says"its not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy that he saves us"this understanding will help you to teach others that think that those that are not saved can somehow do real miracles and really cast out demons,the demons probably laughed and played along just to keep up the deception.
What are the preconditions to faith and salvation under Calvinism? I understand it to be nothing about the people themselves because they’re equally (identically?) undeserving.
I understand all are undeserving. But God has mercy on Paul because he acted in ignorance. Also, 1 Cor 1:26-29 gives certain characteristics of people that God chose. That is, God does give some reasons for who he chose. Also think about the parable of the sower. The characteristics of the soil are important prior to the seed being planted and bringing forth life. God resists the proud, gives grace to the humble. Psalm 18:27 God saves a humble people.
Humility is capable of receiving from the will of the giver as it doesn’t attribute greatness to itself. Therefore it gives God all the glory. It seems to be a precondition. How and why it occurs is certainly a question. But nonetheless it seems to be a precondition.
Scripture teaches us why. God fulfills any “preconditions” that are required. He puts men exactly where they need to be and influences and shapes every one of the elects minds and situations to the point of fertility if you will. God woos. God “calls” and “makes to come” (Psalm 65:4) He convicts and fills and makes new. God shapes the clay and then does with the clay as He pleases.
I heard a lot of philosophical contentions. Didn't hear any rational arguments for how the Bible teaches Calvinism- which should be at the heart of the argument. Sadly Calvinists know they can't take that approach because the Bible has to be bent to Calvinist philosophy, rather than bending their philosophy to match what the Bible teaches.
I don’t think they were really trying to prove Calvinism. They were sort of assuming Calvinist perspective from the beginning.
That is because none of these guys are Christians. Just because someone claims to be a Calvinist or is willing to go along with it does NOT make them a Christian.
Do not be deceived, there is no one who is a Christian that does not understand what Calvin understood! Repent of your fake, manmade, antichrist gospel/christianity!
22:10, if God always does what is right and what is just, how exactly is it just to preprogram people (Calvinism’s non-elect) to sin WITHOUT any chance of accepting the gospel, yet still hold them accountable for their sin AND not accepting the gospel?
That is completely unjust to hold someone accountable for what they cannot do. Worse off to hold them accountable for what they were designed to do in their default state. That’s based on straight facts not emotions. There has to be a decision proposition of either or in order for judgement to be just.
Calvinists attempt to use emotional weakness as both a critique of their opponents and a suppression mechanism to its proponents to not think about the factual and logical implications of their system and the way it characterizes God.
You clearly didn’t pay much attention to what they actually said.
Hi guys
Hi Saul 💙
Calvinist are unbiblical. They have to change all to mean, the elect. They have to add before the beginning of time in Romans 9. Notice that Romans 9 is referring to Israel. God chose Jacob so that the messiah would come from his lineage. He did not choose Isau for that reason. A Calvinist has to add, Jacob is all of those who God chose before the beginning of time and Isau are the reprobates. The Bible does not say that. That idea has to be presupposed and brought into the text
This is really refreshing after listening to the queen of Analogesis, Leighton Flowers.
Let's start out with we're all fallen and headed for hell, okay? We're cockroaches, and God would have every right to send in Pest Control to fumigate. But - in His love, He has allowed us to have life on this earth. He actually saved Noah and his family. So here we are. Second, there is no earthly reason ANY ONE of us should go to heaven. Ever. None of us can earn our way there. So, that some are chosen to go is astounding. No one can say "Well, I wanted to choose..." because that shows that person DIDN'T choose. That's on each of us. Today is the day of salvation.
Psalms 8:3-8 When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,
what is man that you are mindful of him,
and the son of man that you care for him?
Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.
You have given him dominion over the works of your hands;
you have put all things under his feet,
all sheep and oxen,
and also the beasts of the field,
the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea,
whatever passes along the paths of the seas.
This doesn't sound like it's describing cockroaches!
I think that there is an age of accountability that is different for all persons including the mentally impaired,for God does choose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.
If babies are born sinners then so was baby Jesus
Not so. Babies are born sinners because they inherit the fallen nature of Adam as scripture says. However, Jesus was not born of a man. He did not inherit Adams sinful nature. This was the whole purpose for being born from a virgin
@ inheriting flesh isn’t a sin to give account for on the day of judgment . The “original sin” doctrine of man disregards and contradicts The Word of G-D.
“The soul who sins, he shall die. THE SON SHALL NOT BEAR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.”
Ezekiel 18:20
Sin is not inherited
Secondly, if Jesus is a demigod, then he is not the Messiah and Joseph’s genealogies in Luke and Matthew are completely irrelevant.
Deifying Jesus robs him of his accolade as the only one worthy to open the scroll and look inside it.
Deifying Jesus makes Jesus a hypocrite pretending to be a human, pretending to be tempted, and pretending to suffer. He only half suffered, he only half emptied himself.
Deifying Jesus also makes G-D a hypocrite for flooding the earth and wiping out humanity and banishing the nephilim to Tartarus for making babies with the daughters of Adam…only for THE HOLY SPIRIT to impregnate the Jewish Pharisee Miriam with HIS HOLY SEED?
Absolutely Ridiculous.
The Holy Spirit transmitted Joseph’s seed into Miriam’s womb without the normal means of intercourse.
Why is this important?
Because “the virgin birth” was not a Messianic requirement, but a LITERAL seed of David through Solomon IS a requirement, so if Joseph is NOT Jesus’s biological father then Jesus is disqualified from being a Messianic candidate.
Why are the majority of Christians not Calvinists?
Because 90% of Christians are biblically illiterate. Thats a literal statistic.
John 3:17 refutes all of Calvinism. The World - Kosmos (all of sinful humanity) Sozo subjunctive mood - might be saved, (has the ability possibility and potentiality to believe and be saved.)
Poof
I read with much profit from all of these men, but not on the subject of Calvinism. Such an absurd and misguided notion as divine determinism of all men’s choices is indefensible.
Read the Old Testament, friend. That will help a lot. God sends lying spirits, ordains kings to take bad counsel, is sovereign over war (and that means every movement of man's hand with their sword!), it says He "enticed David to number Israel" in 2 Sam. 30 (which it says was sin!). Hope this helps, there is much to learn!
@@mr.f6912 The only thing worse than Calvinism's claim of God's universal determinism of all choices which therefore makes him the ultimate author of sin, is that fact that some unashamedly embrace it. Of course, I'm aware of those verses, but Calvinistic determinism isn't the proper interpretation of them. And God does not causally determine men to sin, which would be sinful.
@ Thanks for your thoughts. Just keep reading the Scriptures humbly, friend. That’s the only thing us puny creatures can do!
Those in error trying to prove they are right about their error and self congratulating themselves about how much they know about their error
No Calvinist can reject Calvinism because he is given ivermectin to Calvinism by God due to their intellectual pride or pride of false humility. First they must repent of their pride and then they can be led to the truth.
It’s futile arguing with someone who doesn’t want to admit they have come to the table with presuppositions
Proving calvinism can't be true in 1 second....the little big word....IF..... can't be in scripture. 😱
Lol. Take a drink when bro in the middle says "you have to be very careful" to protect his theology😂
3:40-4:05 The unstable double minded appeal to tension compatibilism. I really hope all Calvinist move to northern Greenland.
It is probably warmer there than in the godless hearts of the arminians
@ Ive lived and spent countless hours with Calvinists.
Never met an Arminian , knowingly.
The Calvinist apologist most of the time makes a dichotomy.
Which you have done.
Greenland is waiting for you.
Inconsisties and contradictions in the fest 5-10 minutes shows Calvinism is false.
Many error are in this video. First, the Almighty God has reconciled the whole world to himself by the death of his son. Not only what Calvinist called “the elect” but everyone who responds in faith to the righteousness the Creator expect us to carry in our lives. God says in Ezekiel 18:23 “ Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?” To say that the Creator chooses some is no not understand that the Creator has forgiven mankind and wants everyone to repent and stop living wickedly. It is a complete error of Calvinism and a mischaracterization of the Creator to think that only some chosen without any involvement on their part, are actually saved. Also, in minute 30, a statement has been made which is false. No one is a christian for believing Jesus is God, nothing in the scripture says that, it is a pop culture error that unfortunately has gotten into christianity. Being a Christian was to accept Jesus as the Messiah, the son of God, not God. Also, Jesus is a human being born of a woman born under the Law as Paul states in Galatian 4:4, Jesus was conceived in Mary by the Father as stated in Luke 1:26-35, also in Matthew 16;16, Jesus agreed and commended Peter for saying that “ you are the Christ, the son of the living God”, which is the same that John says in John20:30-31. No Jesus is not God or has two natures that is false.
So according to you, Jesus didn’t reconcile anyone. He merely made man reconcilable. Jesus didn’t redeem anyone. He just made them redeemable. Got it
Sorry, you are completely wrong with everything you stated and everything you have been deceived to believe. Jesus did NOT die for anyone other than the very, very, very few who are Gods chosen ones that make up less than 1% of the world. the remaining 99% are all vessels of wrath made only to be destroyed as the Bible clearly tells you. These are all those who fill and make up everything known as the church that is all 100% apostate.
You are NOT a Christian! Nor is anyone snared into anything that claims to be a/the church. Just because people claim to be Calvinists does not make them Christians. Understanding what Calvin understood is only the correct understanding of one Biblical truth. Christians understand ALL of the Bibles truths, not just a few of them.
@ According to the Bible, not to me, those who accept the Creator’s offering of his son on the cross are reconciled to Him. Everyone is invited to accept that reconciliation. Don’t you see the difference?
@@fcastellanos57 ,...No, this is all only according to your total misunderstanding of the Bible. You being a spiritually dead and blind man fail to understand that you are a spiritually dead and blind man trying to understand what you have NO ability to understand.
You have this all 100% wrong and remain spiritually dead, blind, lost, unsaved, deceived, Biblically illiterate, and 100% outside of the kingdom of God as do ALL those who believe what you believe.
Drop the determinism and the Bible makes perfect sense.
You do not need to hold a lot of “mysteries “ as far as salvation is concerned.
Election is clearly conditional.
If you think that then you are confessing to believe that you must work to get to Heaven. You must get smart enough. Wise enough. You must make yourself get the thing the scripture says you can’t get (1 Corinthians 2:14) and therefore you are espousing a false Gospel.
@
Nope. You are assuming a deterministic view.
Why did you believe? Because you won the cosmic lottery? Or because you accepted the invitation?
The Spirit draws. We are responsible to come.
Faith is never ever seen as a work in scripture. Actually it is clearly put just opposed in Romans 3:22, Romans 3:28
You can never come to Calvinist conclusions by just reading the Bible. This is all after reading Calvinistic material.
I have heard of many people coming to Calvinism by just reading Scripture
That’s obviously untrue lol
I did. 🤷
So you can read Rom 8 without pondering predestination could be true? Or Eph 1?
Actually, the exact opposite of what you stated is the truth. The ONLY way anyone can come to the 100% unbiblical conclusion of the freewill gospel is to be a spiritually dead and blind person who has been deceived by spiritually dead and blind leaders the apostate church.
What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" comes only from the Bible and from an actual understanding of the Bible. Your antichrist (another) gospel only comes from listening to and being deceived by the blind guides of the 100% apostate church.
There is no one (an actual Christian) who understands what Calvin understood that came to that conclusion after reading Calvin. They all already understood it. Again, if you were not completely spiritually dead and accursed of God you would know this truth.
Baptists don’t like 1 Cor 7:14 on the baby question.
I don’t think that they don’t like it. I think they would say that it has nothing to do with baptism. Baptism isn’t mentioned or even inferred in the passage. They would suggest that baptism has a particular theological meaning that 1 Cor. 7:14 does not address.
@@toddstevens9667 Although I do believe it has application to baptism, I'm referring to their noticeable lack of reference to this text when address the never-easy pastoral question of "children who die at infancy saved"? I believe that, at least when the parents are believers (who are typically the only parents who ask this question) have this issue, 1 Corinthians 7:14 is the most straightforward answer; and yes, Voddie is wrong when he calls the children of believers "vipers in diapers"
Your response isn’t showing up here, but I read it in my emails. But that verse says nothing whatsoever about salvation, baptism, or infants. So I’m very confused about what you see there. I’m a child of believers. Am I heaven-bound regardless of my relationship to Jesus?
@@toddstevens9667 The children of believers (or indeed, even children where only one parent is a believer) are "holy" - meaning, presumed to be regenerate covenant members until proven otherwise. As such, we can safely presume that a child who dies as a fully-fledged member of the covenant community of special grace is saved.
@@toddstevens9667 "Child" meaning so young that we must presume regeneration unless/until the child proves otherwise with a contrary confession.
Stop for a minute and think - and just be honest with yourself:
You're going to hang your salvation, not on the Apostles' writings in the New Testament, not upon what they and the church they founded taught about Christ and how to worship Him, but on the writings of a French lawyer in the 16th century?
Just sit and think about that for a minute, in deep, sober silence, and then come back and tell me with a straight face that you're willing to gamble your eternity, and that of your family, and go all-in on the Pope of Geneva.
Yeah - it feels wrong, because it IS wrong.
@@readyplayer1900 so to be clear, you’re saying Calvinists are not Christian?
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, and a heretic, whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like Muhammed before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities.
A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true heretic is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, and a heretic, whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like Mohammed before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities.
A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true heretic is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, and a heretic, whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like a 7th century prophet in the Arabian peninsula before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities.
A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true heretic is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
@Bibledingers I'm saying what all Christians, and all men, know in their hearts, upon which God has written His law: that Calvin was wrong, his beliefs were heresy, and whose theology is just so many lies about Christ, and God, and nothing more. If he got it right, and everyone else before and after got it wrong, then what a peculiar thing that is, since the scriptures and the prophets themselves give him no witness, no miracles or divine signs are associated with him or his ministry, and practically the entire body of Christendom of his time rejected him, and, like a 7th century prophet in the Arabian peninsula before him, he had to force his theology upon the people by threat of violence, and only was able to enjoy a station as a prophet by the protection and patronage of corrupt princes and civil authorities.
A true prophet is known by his fruits, just as a true false prophet is known by his. Jesus Himself gave us that litmus test, and warned us that many wolves in sheep's clothing would come declaring lies about Him and His Father. That, and only that, part of the Gospel gives witness to Calvin.
The Bible clearly tells us, God absolutely "picks" people for hell, just as he picks a few for salvation.
2 Peter 2:12
"But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"
Jude 1:10
"But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."
Romans 9:22
"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
End of story!
The first 2 you posted clearly refute your initial statement. Romans 9 is very complex- but doesn't say what you think it says if you read it in context.
@@paulring86 ,...No, sorry, they do not! The Bible tells us God made two kinds of people, people with two different destiny's. He created 99+% of the people of the world as vessels of wrath and brute beasts made only to be destroyed, and the remaining few as his chosen ones, his elect, his bride, the remnant.
You, (all freewillers) being completely spiritually dead and blind have no ability to understand the truths of the Bible. And you have no business telling the spiritually alive what the truths of the Bible are. Instead of listening to the spiritually alive (the actual Christians) you refuse to listen to them, you revile them, and accuse them because this is your destiny, what you were created to do.
As I am sure you know, in the Bible those who accuse the actual Christians are called the devil, the accuser of the brethren (the actual Christians). There of course, is no such thing as the devil/satan and these words are only references to Godless mankind, and Godless mankind shows this clearly when they reject the truths of the Bible and accuse those who bring them the truth of Gods word as Clavin did, that they hate and accuse them as not being what they actually are.
There are no people who are more Biblically illiterate, more willingly ignorant, and more opposed to the truth of the Bible than are those who claim to be Christians.
@@paulring86 So what context do you think his comment is missing in Romans 9?
How do you think he misinterpreted Romans 9?
@@paulring86 ,...No, sorry, they do not! The Bible tells us God made two kinds of people, people with two different destiny's. He created 99+% of the people of the world as vessels of wrath and brute beasts made only to be destroyed, and the remaining few as his chosen ones, his elect, his bride, the remnant.
You, (all freewillers) being completely spiritually dead and blind have no ability to understand the truths of the Bible. And you have no business telling the spiritually alive what the truths of the Bible are. Instead of listening to the spiritually alive (the actual Christians) you refuse to listen to them, you revile them, and accuse them because this is your destiny, what you were created to do.
As I am sure you know, in the Bible those who accuse the actual Christians are called the devil, the accuser of the brethren (the actual Christians). There of course, is no such thing as the devil/satan and these words are only references to Godless mankind, and Godless mankind shows this clearly when they reject the truths of the Bible and accuse those who bring them the truth of Gods word as Clavin did, that they hate and accuse them as not being what they actually are.
There are no people who are more Biblically illiterate, more willingly ignorant, and more opposed to the truth of the Bible than are those who claim to be Christians.
This was horrible. I would love to talk to you gentlemen about the text. Eternal security, Election So on...You up for it?
Calvinists are greatly deceived.
There is no one who is a Christian that does not understand what Calvin understood! Repent of your fake, manmade, antichrist gospel/christianity!
They tried. 😉
Video is 1hr long. Typical Calvinist
😂😂 favorite comment so far
Calvinism is a false Gospel from the Pitts of Hell
Why are anti Calvinism comments always so puerile?
@Caleb-xf5yn Your probably will stay blind after this but my prayer is you wouldn't,please wake up
There are 2 Gospels one is true one is false
1)Gospel(Good news) says:God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have everlasting life
2)Gospel(terrible news) says: God so loved the predestined elect that he sent his only son to die for those whom he chose before the foundations of the world to be at his side while he damned the rest to Hell
Which ones the true gospel(Good news)?both can't be correct,one sides wrong the other is right
Are these the same gospels? BE HONEST BEFORE GOD LIEINGS AN ABOMINATION
If not then ones under a curse according to Galatians 1:6-9,which ever sides right must not fellowship with those who preach a false Gospel,and are we going to fail like the Corinthian church failed in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 an easily put up with those who preach a false gospel and another Jesus that has not be preached?
Stop following popular Christianity and let's follow scripture
The truth is IF YOUR a CALVINIST/REFORMED THEOLOGIAN and are HONEST YOU would have to come to the same conclusion I have and forsake fellowship with non Calvinist because they preach a different good news then the one you preach, if anyone is preaching opposite of what you may believe the true gospel is (Calvinism) then you can't consider non Calvinist saved according to galatians. Its very saddening that anyone holds this demonic view of God and I pray they repent, because it seems that in the same way the pharisees rejected Gods will for their lives and his knowledge so as to be saved is the same way many calvinist have been given over because they refuse to heed to true gospel for the sake of being apart of a bearded club of false Greek gnostic philosophy
@@ThePreacherman9yes the arminian gospel (at least your brand) is the biblically illiterate kind. The kind in which man is reliant on his wicked heart (Jeremiah 17:9) the kind that relies on the inability to understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14) the kind reliant on the lover of darkness who DOES NOT come to the light (John 3:19-21) The kind reliant on the inescapable fallen nature of man detailed in Romans 3:9-23. The kind that relies on the mind of the lost which is hostile to God (Romans 8:7)
What does your false gospel rely on regarding all the above? It relies on the flesh and the lost sinner to be other than he is by his own power, intellect, feeling, volition.
It takes God’s word concerning the state of man and says “aha! But not so!” It reads Ephesians 2:8-9 where it says “not of yourselves” and replies “ah! But it is of myself!”
Your brand of the gospel is a whore of a gospel. It is demonic. It is putrid filth. It glorifies the flesh and not God. It raises men up. Think of it. For the first 4 almost 500 years, the Christians almost wholly agreed with what you call “calvinists” (a name given by papists) and then catholicism came along. And what did it do? It elevated man over God. It said fhat the church was the authority. The pope did it. Their beliefs spiraled for the next 1000 years into the elevation of the created rather than the creator. Mary became divine along with Christ and the saints. Men chose to walk in God’s heavenly home without knocking it seems and walked out unscathed and as a result? Apostasy. Heresy. Abuse. Then one day, scholarly men who studied history and the word of God noticed the discrepancy. They called them out for it. They called for them to repent and turn back to the faith once handed down by the Apostles and God blessed them and empowered their work. No not any arminian. But those reformers who believed in God’s sovereignty and the power of God to save and keep saved. But of course, perversion came later, the filthy arminian. The one who wanted to keep their elevation of man while shaking off the shackles of the popery. Its absolutely disgusting. And here you are today, slandering the “calvinist” using the same arguments that atheists and catholics used and still used. Void of the Spirit. Void of scripture. Void of everything good except whatever indulges your flesh in the moment.
You ought to repent but will you? Time will tell. What will God do? Are you His or are you not? Trust in Christ and be saved or die in your sins. Those are your options
“Blessed is the one who you call, and who you make to come to you”
- Psalm 65:4
Paul washer champion brain washer without lies Calvsnism dies
Without the truths that the devil calls lies… calvinism dies
Yep! Exactly the 5 pillars of Islam right there! You did prove it! Very well done. Next time please include the Sura references too. Christians need those so they can get right to converting....oh wait...NO NEED! My bad.
I believe Calvinism can be proven in Gods sovereignty alone. However I definitely understand the reasons for the debate.
Question. All Christian’s believe (or should believe) in God’s sovereignty. The question is how you are defining it?
We all believe that God is sovereign like a king is sovereign over his land but I think what Calvinist mean is more than that God is ruler but rather in addition to that is that God is determining everything that occurs in space and time including all our thoughts and desires. This is where the difference is. So to say God’s sovereignty settles the question is to engage in assuming what is at debate.
Cringe Heaven.
those who hate a Calvinist understanding of scripture love a contingent God and their idol is human 'free will' including the freedom to follow and obey Jesus. I'll assume that many are regenerate lover's of the promised Messiah Jesus but as is true of all men (including Christians) that we see through a glass darkly and if we knew the truth scripture teaches clearly and comprehensively we would pray to submit to God and align with grace and the Spirit's leading.
Calvinist is the most accurate
I don't need 45 minutes to show Calvinism is absolutely false. Acts 11 says that after Peter's testimony concerning the household of Cornelius, the apostles and beleivers glorified God saying. "Then to the Gentiles also God has* granted* repentance that leads to life.” We all know that repentance means to CHANGE YOUR MIND.
Sure. By what power is that change made? You said it yourself, 'God has GRANTED Gentiles repentance'.
Calvin crap
What the spiritually dead and blind call "Calvinism" is the truth, the gospel, and the Christianity of the Bible. Anything else is another gospel/christianity. Your manmade, freewill gospel is a fraud, the gospel of the accursed of God as you will all find out on judgement day. Repent!