Good, concise video. My feeling about a handguard is: most guys want "bragging rights" regarding the brand. As long as it's free-floated, it's (almost) purely cosmetic. The barrel nut weight is usually steel versus aluminum, but, technically, I'd concentrate more on an expensive barrel, trigger and optic.
I was wondering about that. I'm new to free float and have been looking at the Stngr handguard. I can see in theirs how it's made to be anti rotation based on fit with the receiver and then there is a little nubbin on the plate that fits with the barrel nut to keep the guard from moving forward as well. Looked like the cheap guard was set with similar ideas but what keeps the expensive one from walking forward, even with that plate installed? The way he will be using it is relying entirely on clamping pressure, right? Or am I missing something about this process?
@@sarahgraves6759 depends which one you have some stop it from moving forward with the bolts that go through and lock with the barrel nut, some are just clamped on, if it is just clamped there is a barrel nut glue that should be used. But in my experience it is better to have anti rotation tabs, and the barrel nut that allows the bolts to slide through to prevent forward movement
Not necessarily, this dude just bought the wrong guard for his upper. Midwest industries makes several variants to fit his build better. I whole heartedly endorse midwest industries. They have a far superior product
I've been using Acme Machine Handguards. Some of there gen 2 HG's come with anti rotation tabs. Prices range from $60-$40 dollars. I paid $40 shipped for my 15" M-lok that's on my Aero Precision M5 Ar-10. Also most of the Acme Machine brand I think is made in the USA, but not entirely sure. Thanks for keeping what everyone else calls up the "poor's" in mind.
I've been trying to chase down a somewhat reasonably priced handguard. Never heard of acme untill this comment. You just saved me a ton. Thank you sir!
I’ve had good success with the guntec style longer barrel nut, they some in steel and aluminum. They seem support the handguard better than the shorter Midwest style. Specially when handguards get in the 15” to 17” range.
I'd pick the Guntec handguard and use the $119 to buy over 600 rounds of .233/5.56 ammo. Nicer hand guard don't make you a better shooter; over 600 rounds of practice can.
is 556 super inflated right now, or what? i keep seeing people throw figures like your own out there, but when i look, its like 35-80 cents a round. (not trying to say youre wrong, just want to know if its usually cheaper or something because im currently building an ar and dont remember how much it usually is lol)
Awesome reviews. I have been digging the ALG handguards and the Aero handguards. The ALG handguards are smooth, well finished, solid lockup, just solid pieces for a great price. The only thing is timing the nut takes a touch more work but not bad. The Aero r-one,s-one handguards are awesome also. Simple yet effective. No barrel nut timing plus the are smooth machined and nice pieces. Also have a Midwest industries on a 308 which is a nice solid handguards but my main complaint with it is the machined holes have squared off edges which are not real comfy on the the hands. I need some rail scales on it.
I actually prefer the types of hand guards that have to be timed. They seem to be more sturdy and I trust them more, I had a MI hand guard that used the clamp on style hand guard, and had problems with it rotating on me. It seems like most companies have moved away from the clamp on type.
Same here. The only issue I ever had with Midwest industries was on an AK rail. Didn't quite fit right and I had to do a lot of dremeline and it's still a little crooked
Very Nice to watch your videos about differences on AR-15 parts, I'm from Brazil and soon AR stile rifles will be allowed to civilians here, if possible make more videos like this on milspec ar15 rifles modifications. Thank you Very much!
great vid, I love the concept you've got going on here of a side by side budget and high dollar build. really helps us understand the differences and see where the value is and isnt.
Hontac is my favorite affordable handguard. Made in America. 6061-T6 Aluminum. Steel barrel nut. Clamp on. No need to time the handguard. Bought one. Was going to upgrade latter. But I was so impressed. And six years latter. It’s still holding up.
I am in the middle of building a new AR10 6.5 CM and after weeks of research I can tell you with the exception of a few, very few, parts the price points are of little concern. you have to ask your self a few questions, what is your goal? ("long-range vs short-range" and "hunting vs target shooting") what is your budget? (you have a fixed price vs cheap as posable). you can build an AR10 for as low as $700 for (Hunting and plinken) or you can go all out for a long-range precision build for upwards of $3000. Personally, I put mine together with the idea that I want to do some fun long-range shooting (not precision) and first and foremost I am a hunter. My build came in at just under $1200. Honestly, you need a good set of receivers, a good barrel, and a nice scope, ALL the rest is up for personal preferences. After that half your performance is AMMO. I see absolutely no advantage in either of the two pieces in this review, the main thing I see here is you prefer Midwest Ind. on every point. this is your opinion not true quality differences.
I had a cheap one on an Aero that I bought. Everything was Aero except the Handguard and the Furniture. I went to put the front sight on it and realized the handguard was twisted ever so slightly. The front sight was canted the right when I cowitnessed through the Red Dot. Replaced with an MI and never looked back.
I'm open to any suggestions or explanations, but I'm to the point that I cannot see any good reason for a manufacturer to produce a barrel nut that requires timing. The handguard can be better, more accurately secured (via tabs, grooved barrel nuts, etc.) without having a timed nut, especially when a pic rail is involved. I'm looking forward to what this series of videos produces. Keep it up.
I have a Mid State slanted hybrid handguard on one rifle. It has milled in short forward left, right , underneath rail sections, QD mounts. The handguard has key mod down the sides but mlock on the bottom. It came on a complete upper, I like it.
I like this series. Keep it up bud. As far as budget rails go, BCA has their hanguards pretty cheap. I also think Stinger handguards are worth a look too, they aren't budget, but they're also very nice handguards that include the barrel nut and wrench.
I bought a cheap $60 hand-guard similar to the one you reviewed. It tended to shoot a little loose and needed a lot of attention. Moved up to a BCM and it was a huge difference in quality. I have spent more money going cheap.
Really like this series you are doing. You are the reason I considered building(ahem..assembling) 2 AR pistols. Now I want to build some custom rifles too! Thank you!
Really like your videos. Clearly you have done quite a few builds since you focus on the nuts & bolts stuff without the mind-numbing aesthetic crap many of the genre get sidetracked on that doesn't mean much when it doesn't work in the field/range, it might be pretty but it's structurally cheesy. So thanks for your honest opinions and your no BS reviews. Keep it up OG!
Something to consider. You mentioned you liked having a QD cup cut in the rail. While not a detraction, I don't see it as a benefit either. High end rails are made from 7075 aluminum; cheaper ones out of 6065. All studs are steel. Even high end aluminum loses to steel and will wear in short order, with use. I prefer an M-Lok QD cup, that in addition to being made from steel, also gives you a flexibility to move your attachment point wherever you want.
I've used the Guntec handguards for a couple of my own builds. I have no complaints. They're modeled after the original Noveske fore-ends and the M-Lok is the correct dimensions. Good kit. The Fortis Night Rail I put on one of my last builds looks awesome and has a really easy barrel nut interface design (seriously, easiest install ever), the GunTec does the same job for nearly 1/4 the price.
@@boostedbavarian its Chinese, it takes a bit more effort to co-align with the receiver, but the two I have used on training rifles are not garbage. I wouldn't put them on a duty rifle, but for the range or casual hunting, they work fine. I've had mine for years and they're still on solid. Would I recommend them over the more budget friendly options available now? Lord no.
@Cmoth040 I hear ya, I bought two carry handles from them and they claimed to be anodizing, but it was literally just black paint. Paint ball quality parts in my opinion.
@@boostedbavarian that's how their market operates. They make copies (or get designs from overseas companies) and at first, the quality is spotty. However, they do listen to the criticism. They don't generally admit it, but they make small course corrections. You know, like Glock and Sig Sauer. Slowly but surely they learn from mistakes and the quality improves. When it comes to the Chinese, you truly get what you pay for. Take a look at their newest service rifle. There's a reason it looks like 1990s era Magpul vomited all over a CMMG mutant. We sent over designs to sell on Amazon. We demanded higher quality. They learned from our shooters. Tada! That's how China has always operated.
The downside is that if he has any issues with that bearcreek barrel he's weeks if he's extremely lucky, but in my experience no less the 3 months to get the ram, and another 3 - 6 months for the return, they have a few good customer service reps, but that's where the good ends as there QC isn't there
I bought an MI hand guard once. It came with glue to spread on the barrel nut. This is not a part that should rely on adhesive. That's jenky. Returned it and bought an ALG defense EMR V3.
I've never heard anyone refer to MI as high-end. I don't have a problem with them, but they are faaar behind a, " Balls to the wall high end" product. I know you have a MK12. You know what a high-end forends is. I wish you would have done w comparison to a Ris C4, Geissele etc. They're night and day compared to your budget forened. Also, the mounting hardware especially barrel nuts are a huge factor in determining the value of a forends.
I have owned both those exact hand guards.... I only one one now... key takeaway: All my rifles have MI rails now. The g3 lives on my Recce. All my newer builds rock the combat rail which I prefer on shorties. No disrespect to the Guntec, the quality was good, the mounting system was inferior though (both in terms of needing to time it, no anti-rotation tabs, and the supplied barrel nut being made of aluminum -see later). Also the owner of Guntec responded personally to my (multiple) emails and was more than happy to swap the supplied aluminum barrel nut for a steel one. Killer customer service and it arrived super fast.
I have the same Midwest Industries handguard. I wouldn't consider it high end but certainly solid midrange. When I think high end, geissele pops into mind.
Love your vids!!! I’m in the process of building my dad an AR47 for his birthday. He used to be in the army can’t wait to see that way he cycles this rifle after it’s done
@thickock45 not him, but I built one with a faxon barrel, pretty good about 2-3 moa with Steelcase amm, good function and light rifle with the gunner profile barrel paired to an alg handguard
Seems like just yesterday I was shopping the BCM website to replace the plastic handguards on my neutered A2 Bushmaster. There was 2 options, an ARMS SIR rail for almost $400 or a MI 2 piece drop in quad rail for $150. Youngins don't know how good they got it these days
I have a guntec handguard come on a upper, I purchase full build already and I removed to check if everything was tork correctly and put it back tork correctly and shoot it and start getting loose and I put more tork and the screws get strip because the over tork, I replace it with my favorite one, midwest industries combat rail and is been solid since then, I have about 8 or 9 midwest industries handguard never have issues with that ones.
I am enjoying this series quite a bit, I can’t do an AR build right now but hopefully that will change and I am learning a lot watching this channel. Please keep the videos like this one coming! Thank you for posting these videos and you just keep on keeping on.
Another option for a budget handguard is AIM Sports. Neat barrel nut design. Primary Arms has them as well as Optics Planet where you can get them Cerakoted different colors.
STNGR USA are sorta in between those two brands price wise, but feature wise...way better IMHO. I've got two of their 10.5" rails, one Raptor and one Hawk and they're really top quality. The barrel nut design and how the rail attaches to it eliminates all the pita situations encountered with various other designs/brands. YMMV of course.
The budget one is what I call high end ,lol...but seriously I have a $30 rail on my 16" rifle I wouldn't trade for anything...I just can't pay $200 for a rail..I'd buy a complete bear Creek upper instead...that's just me tho.
Great series! Some parts are worth spending the extra $$$ and some are not. If you pick and choose where you spend your money you can save quite a bit and still put together an accurate and fun rifle.
I actually ordered that same guntec setup. I never liked the clamp on style and don't mind the shims. My plan with the swivel mount is to get a QD mlok setup. They're fairly cheap.
This series you're doing is very informative, and it gives me a few idea's for future builds. Friends come to me to build them a rifle, I just tell you buy all the parts and build it for a fee.
I liked the Midwest handguard when I was going to upgrade my M&P SPORT with a free float hand guard. Then out of the blue I heard about STNGR and being one to find a good deal and a quality guard I purchased a 15 inch HWK MLOC.
@@thinkblue22 This is a well made product comparable to more expensive units. Also the assembly is super easy and quick. You will need an armorers wrench for the barrel nut. The people at STNGR are the best to deal with!
Yes there is a difference, cheap ones can be bent putting pressure on the barrel end "found this when installing the forward hand guard mount" just found this on mine.
Definitely recommend Stngr rails big time. USA made, sleak and lightweight, well priced and super easy to install. I put the 10" Stngr Hwk on my 10.5" pistol build and for $90 I dont think I could beat it for the price.
I just ordered my first Guntec. I needed a 4" and STNGR my preferred Brand's shortest model is a 7" To date I've used UTG, Midwest Industries and of course STNGR. I must say that STNGR is my favorite but, they'll all get the job done. Midwest would be my second choice but, they are about double the cost of STNGR. That's my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it👍🇺🇸
Swapping out my guntec for a newer Midwest handguard ,only because I'm finding I need the mlock on the angled sides of the handguard where they have made ports instead on the guntec
just picked up a 15" ghost firearms hanguard from Primary Arms.. killer deal on it and a Low profile gas block from radical firearms.. going to free float my Savage AR for less than 60 bucks.
I wonder if Guntech makes the rails for PSA. I bought a complete 10.5" 5.56 PSA upper, and the rail that originally came with it, had the same color, anodizing, and "USA" marking as the Guntech rail in your video. Mine happened to be out of spec, and sat a little over 1/16" lower than the rail on my receiver's flat top. PSA ended up swapping it out for a nicer PSA rail, after sending it back to them two times; the first time they sent it back to me with the original out of spec rail I sent in for replacement. Hell, even the upgraded one they put on it came back to me a tad out of spec, sitting about 1/32" lower than the rail on my receiver.
Kinda funny that Noveske's NSR handguards are almost identical to the Guntec one, in additional to the barrel nut, in this video (save for small differences in the lightening cuts) yet they're charging three times the price.
My wifes 10.5 inch bca is an is a 1.5 moa barrel all day long. Noone believes it until they shoot it themselves. The fact is the barrel will always be more accurate than you are. The truth is if you plan on this building an actual battle rifle and you plan on shooting it out past 300 meters and being effective, go with a .308. Bca GUARENTEES all of there barrels 16inches and over to be Moa or less with proper ammo. Make sure you dont buy into the twist bullshit tho. Get a 1.7 so you can shoot anything 45 grain or heavier.(longer)
Actually if shooting at long distances, with heavier bullets, you'd want a faster twist. I have bullets that must be shot out of a 9" or faster twist to get best results from the projectile. Best advice I can give you, is to do your own research.
Love this kinda series bud because , I’m going to start my 1st build . It’s going to be a 300 blackout. I think it’s going to be a pistol. Any ideas on barrel type , twist rate and length ??? Thanks KB32tac👊🏼💯🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
You can get a 15" m-lok handguard for $36 on ebay with the same features (Clamp style barrel nut), just no QD mount, but those can be had for $5 on ebay. Overpaying for a piece of aluminum because of the name on it is asinine.
I been getting the guntech, shroud/muzzle breaks and love em. And I've got the even cheaper than guntech rails the ohunt on aliexpress and after 2 years and 6 of them 0 problems and they were all $40 and under shipped.
Manticore Transformer Rail is lighter and you dont have to time the barrel nut. Also, you can have picatinny, milk, keymod etc all on the same rail. It only adds 11 ounces to your upper, and is under $175.
The Guntec Rail (which is the same design as the Griffin Armament Low Pro Rigid rail) is actually a good bit more rigid than the MI rail. If you're running an IR laser, night vision, or just want a sturdier overall mounting system, go Guntec!
I know I'm way late to this whole thing but UTG/Leapers has some pretty good eco handguards. Around the low $100s and has anti-rotation tabs where it mates to the upper. Pretty sweet.
And I'm way late to this, but I have one gun I put the utg pro quadrail onto, its a solid beast, well worth the money and is closer to larue quality then it is to other $80 rails, definitely a good buy
@@williambell7763 I just put a UTG free float 13" quad rail on an M4 build I did and it locks up great and had anti-rotation tabs that you bolt into the barrel nut. Honestly one of the best budget friendly companies I've found and continue to use after finding them like 8 years ago lol. @UTGLeapers sponsor me!!! Send me stuff to review lol.
What stock style are you planning on for both rifles , collapsable or rifle? And what buffer sys. I used the JP low mass rifle buffer , a wolf reduced power spring,aim surplus lightweight BCG ,seekims adj gas block 18" PSA rifle length gas sys, wilson combat comp. All this on a Battle arms development receiver set . Runs great and recoil is like a air gun.useing a Magpul rifle stock with thick pad for added lop . have a PA 1-6 acss gen 2 on it rise armement 140 trigger i put a double star dragon skin tube handguard on it . I love it
I've tried the cheap and they are always a fight, especially the shims and timing. I've had them timed correctly and then look down the end to see them off to one side or the other. So Cheap handguards are a pass, however that doesn't mean inexpensive won't work. You just need to look for the barrel mount system like MI ones. Davidson Defense has one under $50 that work just fine. My favorite is STNG and Aero both north $100 but the fun thing about these rifles is start cheap and slowly upgrade. You can work your way up from a entry class to a trophy class one piece at a time. Even an Anderson setup with a good barrel and good bolt, can shoot just as accurate as a Daniels Defense, BCM, LaRue, or Noveske. They all shoot same ammo. So start at your price point then work your way up. It's not the most popular weapon in America for no reason.
They are nice and beefy, be prepared to add some weight, you must have the latest and the greatest but on mine (AR15) type there were no shims included so you must play around with the barrel nut torque to align the gas tube correctly. I was expecting not to have to deal with that but the nut does require to be indexed, bummer.
If you attach a QD on that handguard without the anti rotation tab installed, you are asking for trouble. Unless it is gonna be strictly a bench rifle.
IMO if you want a very nice handguard for a great price then the ALG handguards are hard to beat. They are very nice and fairly priced. Geissele is their parent company so that should tell you that they should be very quality. I think most all of ALG's products represent a great value for what you get when talking quality for X cost. If I build an AR and use a single stage trigger I buy ALG QMS triggers. The ALG AKT is an excellent AK trigger as well.
Ignore people that say cheap handguards are made of 6061 aluminum and high-end handguards are made out of 7075 aluminum. From what I've seen most high end handguards are also made out of 6061, but be aware like many things made in China from mystery companies, handguards claiming to be made of 6061 may in fact be manufactured out of inferior materials. Some high end handguards may include 7075 AL, carbon fiber, titanium barrel nut. Buy what is in your budget. That may mean saving money on a handguard to spend on a better barrel or bolt carrier. Many handguards use proprietary barrel nuts. Just be aware. Others are mated to proprietary uppers and time of of the upper receiver via screws then clamp on the barrel nut. Love this series!
Oh, I almost forgot! Palmetto State Armory, PSA, has a reputation of having a tough Anodizing that's a pain in the butt to get off. That might make a difference if you're planning on Cerakoting or Duracoting. I am not sure about Bear Creek Arsenal's, BCA, Anodizing.
Don't forget to check if the handguard uses a AR15 armorer's tool or proprietary wrench. Check to see if the wrench comes with the handguard. For that matter check to see if the barrel nut comes with the handguard. These are just economic and time factors to consider before ordering.
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I like the fact that this video is not 30 minutes long. It gets right to the meat and potatoes. 👍🏼
Digging this "high-end vs budget" stuff man. Keep it coming.
As somebody who is just getting into AR builds, these videos are priceless. Keep this series going. Thanks.
Which mods have you made thus far?
@@MrWzeljunior I'm on my 3rd lower build... But have pussied out and bought complete uppers for them so far...
@@NEPAGUNTALK true but fuck springs and detents
@@Token_Black_Guy Lol... Now that I have a few builds under my belt... AGREED !!!
Good, concise video. My feeling about a handguard is: most guys want "bragging rights" regarding the brand. As long as it's free-floated, it's (almost) purely cosmetic.
The barrel nut weight is usually steel versus aluminum, but, technically, I'd concentrate more on an expensive barrel, trigger and optic.
anti-rotation! key.... so despite the cheap one being a pain to time, it has anti-rotation... so actually a win there IMO
I was wondering about that. I'm new to free float and have been looking at the Stngr handguard. I can see in theirs how it's made to be anti rotation based on fit with the receiver and then there is a little nubbin on the plate that fits with the barrel nut to keep the guard from moving forward as well.
Looked like the cheap guard was set with similar ideas but what keeps the expensive one from walking forward, even with that plate installed?
The way he will be using it is relying entirely on clamping pressure, right? Or am I missing something about this process?
@@sarahgraves6759 depends which one you have some stop it from moving forward with the bolts that go through and lock with the barrel nut, some are just clamped on, if it is just clamped there is a barrel nut glue that should be used. But in my experience it is better to have anti rotation tabs, and the barrel nut that allows the bolts to slide through to prevent forward movement
@@seanrogers9863 I appreciate the information, thank you!
Not necessarily, this dude just bought the wrong guard for his upper. Midwest industries makes several variants to fit his build better. I whole heartedly endorse midwest industries. They have a far superior product
Correction... the MI has anti rotation as well. Can confirm. I have a 12” G3LW on my Recce.
I've been using Acme Machine Handguards. Some of there gen 2 HG's come with anti rotation tabs. Prices range from $60-$40 dollars. I paid $40 shipped for my 15" M-lok that's on my Aero Precision M5 Ar-10. Also most of the Acme Machine brand I think is made in the USA, but not entirely sure. Thanks for keeping what everyone else calls up the "poor's" in mind.
I've been trying to chase down a somewhat reasonably priced handguard. Never heard of acme untill this comment. You just saved me a ton. Thank you sir!
I’ve had good success with the guntec style longer barrel nut, they some in steel and aluminum. They seem support the handguard better than the shorter Midwest style. Specially when handguards get in the 15” to 17” range.
My last build I used an aero m4e1 enhanced upper with the aero handguard. Absolutely love it. Talk about easy to put together
Also used ballistic advantage 17.5" .223 wylde stainless barrel in hanson profile
I'd pick the Guntec handguard and use the $119 to buy over 600 rounds of .233/5.56 ammo. Nicer hand guard don't make you a better shooter; over 600 rounds of practice can.
I also think the stupid expensive one is ugly
I have a Midwest on my 5.56. It’s actually very narrow and gives me a great purchase on the rifle. It’s also light which is a bigger deal.
is 556 super inflated right now, or what? i keep seeing people throw figures like your own out there, but when i look, its like 35-80 cents a round. (not trying to say youre wrong, just want to know if its usually cheaper or something because im currently building an ar and dont remember how much it usually is lol)
Mcnuggatron I have noticed that too, even the dirty Malaysian surplus stuff is like 40-50 cents
@@pixelfire6121 huh, do you know of it used to be cheaper? Hoping it gets cheaper again if so lol
Just put an AT3 15” handguard on my boy’s AR.
Very impressed with the fit and quality and only cost $85.🤘
I like handguards with longer barrel nuts they just seem more solid out near the tip.
Awesome reviews. I have been digging the ALG handguards and the Aero handguards. The ALG handguards are smooth, well finished, solid lockup, just solid pieces for a great price. The only thing is timing the nut takes a touch more work but not bad. The Aero r-one,s-one handguards are awesome also. Simple yet effective. No barrel nut timing plus the are smooth machined and nice pieces. Also have a Midwest industries on a 308 which is a nice solid handguards but my main complaint with it is the machined holes have squared off edges which are not real comfy on the the hands. I need some rail scales on it.
I actually prefer the types of hand guards that have to be timed. They seem to be more sturdy and I trust them more, I had a MI hand guard that used the clamp on style hand guard, and had problems with it rotating on me. It seems like most companies have moved away from the clamp on type.
How could it rotate on you when it has tabs on it that literally grip the upper receiver? Hmm 🤔
@@HotBrass-Lead It was one of their older handguards, probably 10 years ago, no tabs, not the one he is showing in this video.
Same here. The only issue I ever had with Midwest industries was on an AK rail. Didn't quite fit right and I had to do a lot of dremeline and it's still a little crooked
Great video. Nice to see the comparison side by side. You get what you pay for but, the budget stuff is getting better and better.
Very Nice to watch your videos about differences on AR-15 parts, I'm from Brazil and soon AR stile rifles will be allowed to civilians here, if possible make more videos like this on milspec ar15 rifles modifications. Thank you Very much!
Love this series Kotaboy.
I hope we get to see the actual build.
great vid, I love the concept you've got going on here of a side by side budget and high dollar build. really helps us understand the differences and see where the value is and isnt.
Hontac is my favorite affordable handguard. Made in America. 6061-T6 Aluminum. Steel barrel nut. Clamp on. No need to time the handguard. Bought one. Was going to upgrade latter. But I was so impressed. And six years latter. It’s still holding up.
Recently installed a 15” AT3 hand guard on a rifle.
Impressed with the quality and was only $85.🤘
I am in the middle of building a new AR10 6.5 CM and after weeks of research I can tell you with the exception of a few, very few, parts the price points are of little concern. you have to ask your self a few questions, what is your goal? ("long-range vs short-range" and "hunting vs target shooting") what is your budget? (you have a fixed price vs cheap as posable). you can build an AR10 for as low as $700 for (Hunting and plinken) or you can go all out for a long-range precision build for upwards of $3000. Personally, I put mine together with the idea that I want to do some fun long-range shooting (not precision) and first and foremost I am a hunter. My build came in at just under $1200. Honestly, you need a good set of receivers, a good barrel, and a nice scope, ALL the rest is up for personal preferences. After that half your performance is AMMO. I see absolutely no advantage in either of the two pieces in this review, the main thing I see here is you prefer Midwest Ind. on every point. this is your opinion not true quality differences.
I had a cheap one on an Aero that I bought. Everything was Aero except the Handguard and the Furniture. I went to put the front sight on it and realized the handguard was twisted ever so slightly. The front sight was canted the right when I cowitnessed through the Red Dot. Replaced with an MI and never looked back.
I'm open to any suggestions or explanations, but I'm to the point that I cannot see any good reason for a manufacturer to produce a barrel nut that requires timing. The handguard can be better, more accurately secured (via tabs, grooved barrel nuts, etc.) without having a timed nut, especially when a pic rail is involved. I'm looking forward to what this series of videos produces. Keep it up.
Torque the barrel nut with the barrel onto the upper. Place the hand guard on the barrel nut and mark it and drill it for proper location.
I have a Mid State slanted hybrid handguard on one rifle. It has milled in short forward left, right , underneath rail sections, QD mounts. The handguard has key mod down the sides but mlock on the bottom. It came on a complete upper, I like it.
Enjoying the series, are you going to include hand grips, stocks, buffer tubes & buffers? I'm sure your going to compare BCGs..
I like this series. Keep it up bud. As far as budget rails go, BCA has their hanguards pretty cheap. I also think Stinger handguards are worth a look too, they aren't budget, but they're also very nice handguards that include the barrel nut and wrench.
@@kylemarsun
We aren't fans of the Punisher, lol.
I bought a cheap $60 hand-guard similar to the one you reviewed. It tended to shoot a little loose and needed a lot of attention. Moved up to a BCM and it was a huge difference in quality. I have spent more money going cheap.
Really like this series you are doing. You are the reason I considered building(ahem..assembling) 2 AR pistols. Now I want to build some custom rifles too! Thank you!
Really like your videos. Clearly you have done quite a few builds since you focus on the nuts & bolts stuff without the mind-numbing aesthetic crap many of the genre get sidetracked on that doesn't mean much when it doesn't work in the field/range, it might be pretty but it's structurally cheesy. So thanks for your honest opinions and your no BS reviews. Keep it up OG!
Something to consider. You mentioned you liked having a QD cup cut in the rail.
While not a detraction, I don't see it as a benefit either.
High end rails are made from 7075 aluminum; cheaper ones out of 6065. All studs are steel. Even high end aluminum loses to steel and will wear in short order, with use.
I prefer an M-Lok QD cup, that in addition to being made from steel, also gives you a flexibility to move your attachment point wherever you want.
Nicely done. Specially liked that you kept the prices posted during the duration of the video.
I bet the MI handguard will flex more out at the tip. Always look for a long steel barrel nut, it's a big help for making the guard solid.
I've used the Guntec handguards for a couple of my own builds. I have no complaints. They're modeled after the original Noveske fore-ends and the M-Lok is the correct dimensions. Good kit. The Fortis Night Rail I put on one of my last builds looks awesome and has a really easy barrel nut interface design (seriously, easiest install ever), the GunTec does the same job for nearly 1/4 the price.
Guntec is 100% Chinese garbage 😅
@@boostedbavarian its Chinese, it takes a bit more effort to co-align with the receiver, but the two I have used on training rifles are not garbage. I wouldn't put them on a duty rifle, but for the range or casual hunting, they work fine. I've had mine for years and they're still on solid. Would I recommend them over the more budget friendly options available now? Lord no.
@Cmoth040 I hear ya, I bought two carry handles from them and they claimed to be anodizing, but it was literally just black paint. Paint ball quality parts in my opinion.
@@boostedbavarian that's how their market operates. They make copies (or get designs from overseas companies) and at first, the quality is spotty. However, they do listen to the criticism. They don't generally admit it, but they make small course corrections. You know, like Glock and Sig Sauer. Slowly but surely they learn from mistakes and the quality improves. When it comes to the Chinese, you truly get what you pay for. Take a look at their newest service rifle. There's a reason it looks like 1990s era Magpul vomited all over a CMMG mutant. We sent over designs to sell on Amazon. We demanded higher quality. They learned from our shooters. Tada! That's how China has always operated.
The MI spacer stops the rail from rotating or sliding forward pretty important. Can make work with a little dremel work
I hope the budget build shoots better than the high-end build.
The downside is that if he has any issues with that bearcreek barrel he's weeks if he's extremely lucky, but in my experience no less the 3 months to get the ram, and another 3 - 6 months for the return, they have a few good customer service reps, but that's where the good ends as there QC isn't there
I bought an MI hand guard once. It came with glue to spread on the barrel nut. This is not a part that should rely on adhesive. That's jenky. Returned it and bought an ALG defense EMR V3.
My BCA upper, BCG, barrel, & handguard work just fine. Sure the bolt sounds like a cheese grater, but so did the expensive uppers in this other video!
I feel like a BCA upper with a $150 radian BCG would outperform a lot of what’s out there.
never having had any sort of "black" rifle. this is a very good series for me to watch. thank you.
I've never heard anyone refer to MI as high-end. I don't have a problem with them, but they are faaar behind a, " Balls to the wall high end" product. I know you have a MK12. You know what a high-end forends is. I wish you would have done w comparison to a Ris C4, Geissele etc. They're night and day compared to your budget forened. Also, the mounting hardware especially barrel nuts are a huge factor in determining the value of a forends.
Went with 15“ Midwest quad rail for my AR, cost 210 but gives my ultimate in versatility and I love the aggressive look.
I appreciate you doing this series! Its nice to see what the difference is in the different priced parts! Thank you!
I have owned both those exact hand guards.... I only one one now... key takeaway: All my rifles have MI rails now.
The g3 lives on my Recce. All my newer builds rock the combat rail which I prefer on shorties.
No disrespect to the Guntec, the quality was good, the mounting system was inferior though (both in terms of needing to time it, no anti-rotation tabs, and the supplied barrel nut being made of aluminum -see later). Also the owner of Guntec responded personally to my (multiple) emails and was more than happy to swap the supplied aluminum barrel nut for a steel one. Killer customer service and it arrived super fast.
Have there been any hand guard rotation problems leaving the tab out?
Heat cycles and twisting from grip and sling attachment would concern me.
I have the same Midwest Industries handguard. I wouldn't consider it high end but certainly solid midrange. When I think high end, geissele pops into mind.
Love your vids!!! I’m in the process of building my dad an AR47 for his birthday. He used to be in the army can’t wait to see that way he cycles this rifle after it’s done
@thickock45 not him, but I built one with a faxon barrel, pretty good about 2-3 moa with Steelcase amm, good function and light rifle with the gunner profile barrel paired to an alg handguard
Seems like just yesterday I was shopping the BCM website to replace the plastic handguards on my neutered A2 Bushmaster. There was 2 options, an ARMS SIR rail for almost $400 or a MI 2 piece drop in quad rail for $150. Youngins don't know how good they got it these days
I'd pick a trinity force handguard, when they start having stuff in stock, GunTec price, mounts like the Midwest, with a no questions asked warranty
Midwest Industries makes the best looking hand guards outside of Magpul. Not having to time the MI rail is a plus.
I have a guntec handguard come on a upper, I purchase full build already and I removed to check if everything was tork correctly and put it back tork correctly and shoot it and start getting loose and I put more tork and the screws get strip because the over tork, I replace it with my favorite one, midwest industries combat rail and is been solid since then, I have about 8 or 9 midwest industries handguard never have issues with that ones.
I am enjoying this series quite a bit, I can’t do an AR build right now but hopefully that will change and I am learning a lot watching this channel. Please keep the videos like this one coming! Thank you for posting these videos and you just keep on keeping on.
Really enjoy the high-end vs budget series.
Another option for a budget handguard is AIM Sports. Neat barrel nut design. Primary Arms has them as well as Optics Planet where you can get them Cerakoted different colors.
STNGR USA are sorta in between those two brands price wise, but feature wise...way better IMHO. I've got two of their 10.5" rails, one Raptor and one Hawk and they're really top quality. The barrel nut design and how the rail attaches to it eliminates all the pita situations encountered with various other designs/brands. YMMV of course.
That's why MI states to check with them before buying if you are using a billet receiver..... MI Rocks....
The budget one is what I call high end ,lol...but seriously I have a $30 rail on my 16" rifle I wouldn't trade for anything...I just can't pay $200 for a rail..I'd buy a complete bear Creek upper instead...that's just me tho.
DarkLight
Try paying $407 for the 15” Daniel Defense M4 quad rail.
Just installed one on my 16” BCM build
jayonez 13 is it worth it? I want one badly in fde.
Great series! Some parts are worth spending the extra $$$ and some are not. If you pick and choose where you spend your money you can save quite a bit and still put together an accurate and fun rifle.
I actually ordered that same guntec setup. I never liked the clamp on style and don't mind the shims. My plan with the swivel mount is to get a QD mlok setup. They're fairly cheap.
I would have done Danie Defense or Giessele for the high end. Light years ahead in both the rail and how they mount.
Loving this series. Looking forward to the next video. specially since I'm looking to by or build a SPR/DMR set up.
This series you're doing is very informative, and it gives me a few idea's for future builds. Friends come to me to build them a rifle, I just tell you buy all the parts and build it for a fee.
I liked the Midwest handguard when I was going to upgrade my M&P SPORT with a free float hand guard. Then out of the blue I heard about STNGR and being one to find a good deal and a quality guard I purchased a 15 inch HWK MLOC.
Was considering the same rail. What's your opinion of it?
@@thinkblue22 This is a well made product comparable to more expensive units. Also the assembly is super easy and quick. You will need an armorers wrench for the barrel nut. The people at STNGR are the best to deal with!
Yes there is a difference, cheap ones can be bent putting pressure on the barrel end "found this when installing the forward hand guard mount" just found this on mine.
It's usually supporting someone sending their 8 year old to little league, rather than supporting someone sending their 8 year old to work...
Definitely recommend Stngr rails big time. USA made, sleak and lightweight, well priced and super easy to install. I put the 10" Stngr Hwk on my 10.5" pistol build and for $90 I dont think I could beat it for the price.
I just ordered my first Guntec. I needed a 4" and STNGR my preferred Brand's shortest model is a 7" To date I've used UTG, Midwest Industries and of course STNGR. I must say that STNGR is my favorite but, they'll all get the job done. Midwest would be my second choice but, they are about double the cost of STNGR. That's my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it👍🇺🇸
Oh PS: I'm a KEYMOD kinda guy! MLOK SUCKS 😂👍
You should look into JL Billet,,,,, they make the stngr handguard....lol
@@kotaboy32 they do? Well STNGR gives them to me so, I guess it's hard to beat that price.😂👍
@@UncleDanBand64 I think that's a great price, I'm a big fan of that price
@@kotaboy32 yeah I reckon that makes me a shill. I like free. Have a good 4th Brother 👍 🇺🇸
Swapping out my guntec for a newer Midwest handguard ,only because I'm finding I need the mlock on the angled sides of the handguard where they have made ports instead on the guntec
You can always clamp an optic across the handguard/reciever gap to keep them perfectly inline to each other...
just picked up a 15" ghost firearms hanguard from Primary Arms.. killer deal on it and a Low profile gas block from radical firearms.. going to free float my Savage AR for less than 60 bucks.
I wonder if Guntech makes the rails for PSA. I bought a complete 10.5" 5.56 PSA upper, and the rail that originally came with it, had the same color, anodizing, and "USA" marking as the Guntech rail in your video.
Mine happened to be out of spec, and sat a little over 1/16" lower than the rail on my receiver's flat top. PSA ended up swapping it out for a nicer PSA rail, after sending it back to them two times; the first time they sent it back to me with the original out of spec rail I sent in for replacement. Hell, even the upgraded one they put on it came back to me a tad out of spec, sitting about 1/32" lower than the rail on my receiver.
Great series, can't wait to see the groups they produce
Kinda funny that Noveske's NSR handguards are almost identical to the Guntec one, in additional to the barrel nut, in this video (save for small differences in the lightening cuts) yet they're charging three times the price.
I'm for one very eager to see how the barrels compare for accuracy. I'm interested in getting a bca 223 18in with 5r lands and grooves.
My wifes 10.5 inch bca is an is a 1.5 moa barrel all day long. Noone believes it until they shoot it themselves. The fact is the barrel will always be more accurate than you are. The truth is if you plan on this building an actual battle rifle and you plan on shooting it out past 300 meters and being effective, go with a .308. Bca GUARENTEES all of there barrels 16inches and over to be Moa or less with proper ammo. Make sure you dont buy into the twist bullshit tho. Get a 1.7 so you can shoot anything 45 grain or heavier.(longer)
Actually if shooting at long distances, with heavier bullets, you'd want a faster twist. I have bullets that must be shot out of a 9" or faster twist to get best results from the projectile. Best advice I can give you, is to do your own research.
I'm using the MWI handguard because I don't like having the PIC rail running the length of the handguard for every application.
I have the stngr 15" handrail. I love it and love the price even more.
Love this kinda series bud because , I’m going to start my 1st build . It’s going to be a 300 blackout. I think it’s going to be a pistol. Any ideas on barrel type , twist rate and length ??? Thanks KB32tac👊🏼💯🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@Ian Miller 1×8 is a better all around twist. They seem to stabilize both light and heavier weight bullets better.
@@josephcremeans you need a faster twist rate for the heavier ones. 1:7 Twist with 5R rifling is the way to go
You can get a 15" m-lok handguard for $36 on ebay with the same features (Clamp style barrel nut), just no QD mount, but those can be had for $5 on ebay. Overpaying for a piece of aluminum because of the name on it is asinine.
Un Garza Who makes that rail?
Great video but I wouldn’t really consider MI to be high end for hand guards. That would be like SLR, G, Hodge, VSeven, and so on.
I been getting the guntech, shroud/muzzle breaks and love em.
And I've got the even cheaper than guntech rails the ohunt on aliexpress and after 2 years and 6 of them 0 problems and they were all $40 and under shipped.
I have a MI barrel on my 10.3 AR it’s the larger diameter and 12” so it cover my silencer. The great thing about the MI it’s easy to remove
Manticore Transformer Rail is lighter and you dont have to time the barrel nut. Also, you can have picatinny, milk, keymod etc all on the same rail. It only adds 11 ounces to your upper, and is under $175.
Thank you for this series.. I always enjoy watching your videos. Hoping you have a great rest of your week. Happy 4th.
At only $100 I found the Leapers UTG PRO SuperSlim Free Float Handguard to be an awesome midrange option.
Next video build series will include that handguard
Reveiw of test guns is great will use your info on next build!!!!
drilling beautiful holes between the pic rails works wonders on cheap heavy rails.
I like the PSA guards and the Grendel Hunter slant guard just looks sick!
The Guntec Rail (which is the same design as the Griffin Armament Low Pro Rigid rail) is actually a good bit more rigid than the MI rail. If you're running an IR laser, night vision, or just want a sturdier overall mounting system, go Guntec!
I was able to get a MI handguard for 120 or so on Midway USA and it is beautiful.
Idk if MI is high end. Geissele or DD RIS for 300 to 400 maybe. MI is mid tier at 200 and what I prefer. Similar to ADM or CMT.
Coming in late to the game, but this series is AWESOME!
Same
Check out STNGR hand guards. US made, no timing, anti-rotation, and super fast shipping. All at a great price and high quality.
I know I'm way late to this whole thing but UTG/Leapers has some pretty good eco handguards. Around the low $100s and has anti-rotation tabs where it mates to the upper. Pretty sweet.
And I'm way late to this, but I have one gun I put the utg pro quadrail onto, its a solid beast, well worth the money and is closer to larue quality then it is to other $80 rails, definitely a good buy
@@williambell7763 I just put a UTG free float 13" quad rail on an M4 build I did and it locks up great and had anti-rotation tabs that you bolt into the barrel nut. Honestly one of the best budget friendly companies I've found and continue to use after finding them like 8 years ago lol. @UTGLeapers sponsor me!!! Send me stuff to review lol.
Love it bud! I really like seeing the weight comparison
What stock style are you planning on for both rifles , collapsable or rifle? And what buffer sys. I used the JP low mass rifle buffer , a wolf reduced power spring,aim surplus lightweight BCG ,seekims adj gas block 18" PSA rifle length gas sys, wilson combat comp. All this on a Battle arms development receiver set . Runs great and recoil is like a air gun.useing a Magpul rifle stock with thick pad for added lop . have a PA 1-6 acss gen 2 on it rise armement 140 trigger i put a double star dragon skin tube handguard on it
. I love it
I've tried the cheap and they are always a fight, especially the shims and timing. I've had them timed correctly and then look down the end to see them off to one side or the other. So Cheap handguards are a pass, however that doesn't mean inexpensive won't work. You just need to look for the barrel mount system like MI ones. Davidson Defense has one under $50 that work just fine. My favorite is STNG and Aero both north $100 but the fun thing about these rifles is start cheap and slowly upgrade. You can work your way up from a entry class to a trophy class one piece at a time. Even an Anderson setup with a good barrel and good bolt, can shoot just as accurate as a Daniels Defense, BCM, LaRue, or Noveske. They all shoot same ammo. So start at your price point then work your way up. It's not the most popular weapon in America for no reason.
I'm trying to do a "BLEMISH" build. It's just slow going cause it's hard to find. Blem boy
They are nice and beefy, be prepared to add some weight, you must have the latest and the greatest but on mine (AR15) type there were no shims included so you must play around with the barrel nut torque to align the gas tube correctly. I was expecting not to have to deal with that but the nut does require to be indexed, bummer.
We appreciate all your hard work , KIeep it up !!
If you attach a QD on that handguard without the anti rotation tab installed, you are asking for trouble. Unless it is gonna be strictly a bench rifle.
Great video! Very enlightening thanks for doing this series.
IMO if you want a very nice handguard for a great price then the ALG handguards are hard to beat. They are very nice and fairly priced. Geissele is their parent company so that should tell you that they should be very quality. I think most all of ALG's products represent a great value for what you get when talking quality for X cost. If I build an AR and use a single stage trigger I buy ALG QMS triggers. The ALG AKT is an excellent AK trigger as well.
Ignore people that say cheap handguards are made of 6061 aluminum and high-end handguards are made out of 7075 aluminum. From what I've seen most high end handguards are also made out of 6061, but be aware like many things made in China from mystery companies,
handguards claiming to be made of 6061 may in fact be manufactured out of inferior materials. Some high end handguards may include 7075 AL, carbon fiber, titanium barrel nut. Buy what is in your budget. That may mean saving money on a handguard to spend on a better barrel or bolt carrier.
Many handguards use proprietary barrel nuts. Just be aware. Others are mated to proprietary uppers and time of of the upper receiver via screws then clamp on the barrel nut.
Love this series!
Oh, I almost forgot! Palmetto State Armory, PSA, has a reputation of having a tough Anodizing that's a pain in the butt to get off. That might make a difference if you're planning on Cerakoting or Duracoting.
I am not sure about Bear Creek Arsenal's, BCA, Anodizing.
Don't forget to check if the handguard uses a AR15 armorer's tool or proprietary wrench. Check to see if the wrench comes with the handguard. For that matter check to see if the barrel nut comes with the handguard. These are just economic and time factors to consider before ordering.