Yeah exactly. The woman who sassed off to Dark Vader despite being practically powerless. ‘Quiet and Obedient’. I think we all learn that hindsight is 2020
Why is it ironic? The writing was below mediocre on the The Clone Wars film. That's still how most people think, even people who love the show now. They just massively stepped their game up each season, and that's why she was finally respected and Clone Wars loved. Sequel trilogy is a whole different story. No step-up there, unless they do a show for them too, but there isn't really a cool iconic world to build on, except if lend from, well, the prequels/clone wars.
@@finnslibrary2189 The ironic was meant to mean that Ahsoka became a well loved character by the end of TCW, even by many of the people who claimed they would never like her. Not about the writing in the movie.
I didn’t like her because I was a five year old boy who didn’t like girls. As I grew up with the show I grew to appreciate her. And now she is my favorite Star Wars character
Its amazing what can happen when you are patient and wait to see a story as a whole - So often Star Wars is judged before the reveal of the vision. I think we are about to see the same thing happen once Rise of Skywalker comes out and people can finally see how everything connects.
"Quiet and obedient like Leia" Yes, the woman who helped lead the Rebellion and was brave enough to spit in Vader's face. a very quiet and obedient woman
“Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader’s leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.” “Will someone get this big walking carpet out of my way?” “Someone has to save our skins. Into the garbage chute, fly boy.” “Why, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking, Nerf-herder!” “You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them.” Yep. Quiet and obedient...:-)
@@guitartruong3981 Well because she refused to retreat, one of the venator class star destroyers was destroyed and another heavily damaged. Leaving one left, you could say that was her destroying the fleet.
Mary Sue at this point doesn't even should be considered valid criticism. There are many characters that fit this trope's criteria yet are well written. Nowadays this is just a buzz word.
Like every character its one of the reason why i like damian wayne he is just a passive aggresive ass but as soon as he met super boy that turn into a fun thing .
Literally. She went through puberty on the front lines. She started out with zero experience and ended up with more experience than anyone could have imagined.
@@dpgamezderek8137 6 seasons, one movie, one book, then again, another season and some more episodes. Rey had two movies, which weren't even written by the same people. So yeah, I agree, a bit unfair.
@@cristhianmlr it was said that her being in the movie didn't mean she died. But they also said she can be. We've seen this kind of thing happen before in different ways in star wars (not dbz give me your energy way) but like seems with Leia hearing Luke's cry for her underneath bespin
cristhianmlr Well, that’s a good 55 years after Order 66. Ahsoka would be over 70 by that point, so if she was dead (up in the air right now), she lived a pretty long life.
Ah yes, Ashoka who has spent her entire life devoted to the Jedi order, undergoing as much training as Obi-Wan before the Phantom Menace, is a Mary Sue.
That's because the "old" fans that suffer from nostalgic bias gets replaced by "new" fans suffering from the same, but with the never shows/movies. It's a vicious cycle, and, as Greedo says, Star Wars is a generational thing.
@@patrioticcat5768 also creators change. Sometimes they'll stick to the original goals or they have a change in direction or they felt the story will be better served told this way or they lose interest and they need to decide to give the reigns to another or continue and hope thier lack of interest won't hurt the project.
I love how the consensus gradually changed from “Oh gosh, when are they gonna kill off Ahsoka and Rex” to “Oh gosh, please don’t kill off Ahsoka and Rex”.
She sort of grew up with the viewers in that way, and it was all natural. She may be one of the few animated characters that actually has character progression across the entirety of their series. The same could be said for other Clone Wars characters like Anakin, Rex, Ventress, and Fives.
People didn't understand that when Ahsoka started off she was a child. So it doesn't surprise me that she behaved the way she did. People really are just ignorant
I think the reason so many people thought she was annoying was because she was actually a pretty on-point depiction of a 14-year-old...I didn't think she was annoying at first, but that's because I was a couple years younger than her! The goofy nicknames for Anakin and R2, the recklessness, the overconfidence - all are characteristic of a young, lighthearted teenager who doesn't have a good sense of risk or consequences. Most of her character arc is her repeatedly screwing up out of naivete and out of a desire to prove herself, and then becoming a better person as a result of learning from her mistakes.
@@RianeBane So the things that Anakin himself never did and as per the movies remained a moody man child til the point he got dismembered and burned into Darth Vader. Like seriously, Clone Wars Anakin feels leagues ahead of movie Anakin.
I was a fan of The Clone Wars from the beginning, and I remember so many "true" star wars fans telling me that The Clone Wars was terrible for disregarding the expanded universe.
jesus how can people hate those nice and tiny pretty battledroids, they're awesome, love them, they really make that special atmosphere of the clone wars
Im confused with how ahsoka is supposed to push "girl power" her being a girl never really came up as an issue, just her being younger than the standard padawan.
I think people often confuse the hype or media interpretations around a character for the character itself. The story itself doesn't make gender an issue around Ahsoka. It's other people's excitement for the character being a female, a potential role model for young girls, that yields the "girl power" thing: something that may have been lauded feminist fans at the time, but not really supported by narrative elements in the show...and thank goodness for that: I was one of those young girls who was enamored with the characte at first, but now that I'm older and kind of a skeptic of the feminist movement I would view the character with disdain if she legitimately had a feminist bent.
Ok I’m asking to not be judgemental with what I’m about to say BUT I’m slowly watching TCW, Im on Season 4 right now. I grew up in the time that the prequels were coming out. I was 12 when Revenge Of The Sith came out, I grew up with Anakin and Obi-wan. Even with the amazing cartoon of TCW which was with the clones and a littile more action/adventure stuff with Anakin and Obi-wan, my point is and Im still questioning it but why is Ahsoka on this series? I feel like Anakin is a baby sitter and there aren’t much bro moments with Obi and Ani and that’s what I grew up with. Not a girl in the middle trying to be cool with them while feeling like a drag to the stories. Then again Im only on Season 4 of TCW and maybe somewhere along the way she earns her coolness or respect but for now with her it makes it less Star Warsy for me. Literally Rey is far cooler imo.
"...reduced to the level of Saturday morning animation?" Yeah, because it's not like this series drew heavy inspiration from film serials, the original Saturday morning block, or anything. No, never.
@@kennethferland5579 If I have a kid, I want to show them Ewoks/The Battle of Endor before the movies. That way when they're watching RotJ, it's this unexpected crossover.
The Star Wars fanbase can often be a good reminder of how dense, cynical, and overly sure of themselves people can be. A good thing to remember honestly.
@@Epiousios18 Wow and it's also a good thing to remember how dense, overly optimistic, pandering HelloGreedo's fanbase of consumerist morons are. These criticisms are from outdated voiceacting, animation, and plot, from a movie that was poorly recieved all around, as the franchise lore was changing. Ahsoka was considered a Mary Sue at that time because she took on three Magnagaurds and Ventress in that same movie. In the clone wars before that they were actually considered difficult opponents, so it's not like the criticism is unwarrented. But as the lore change and we saw her struggles, and the writing vastly improved as well as animation on the show. Opinions quickly changed.
@PapaWill its a shame the fandom itself is incapable of change. Don’t believe, just look at how they react to a Star Wars movie versus when the prequels came out. People in the Star Wars fandom keep saying that they always loved the prequels and that they think their brilliant, but they sure didn’t express this when they came out. Heck if they were nicer about then George probably wouldn’t have even have sold Star Wars in the first place, so there’s something for all those people who are complaining about Disney ruining Star Wars to think about. Honestly ruining Star Wars was movement they started a long time ago in a galaxy far far away and its one that they’re still helping to keep pushing forward even today. They honestly I think the hate is still not as bad today as when it was during the prequels. I mean when Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones came out the fandom bullied a ten year old actor (Jake Loyd) into giving up acting and eventually committing crimes, nearly bullied another actor (Ahmed Best) into committing suicide, and pretty much ruined Hayden Christensens career. Today the Star Wars Fandom only managed to bully one actor (Kelly Marie Tran) into quitting social media,(with the exception of a few meatheads who are making up reasons to pick on other actors like Daisy Ridley and John Boyega) so its only about 3 to 1. Yep that’s the Fandom Menace for you, I’m sure we’re all proud to be a part of the same people who did all those things I just listed above. Can’t wait for the comments of people trying to cover up what I just said with fake excuses to deny what I said being true or claim that it was justified or less serious. Also f#k the Fandom Menace. I’m not apologizing, they earned that one. (Also this isn’t really into for anyone in this comment section, just an honest claim)
ZOKIN2000 Me, a girl: Girls should be allowed to have a range of personalities You, an idiot: SIMP Seriously, you’re like the human equivalent of spreading frozen butter on toast.
People: “she’s a Mary Sue” Ahsoka: literally has been training for her whole life in the Jedi arts, and was not just a random person given powers because why not
@ルカ Not to mention Vader wiped the floor with her, and she was used to fighting him via training. If she was a Mary sue that would've never have happened.
Ryan Schott the way people have used the term “Mary Sue” means it’s no longer a “fine term” for anything. All it means nowadays “is female character I personally do not like, but am to lazy to explain why”, and the same people who use it also tend to treat the statement “x is a Mary Sue” as a statement of fact that cannot be argued with, rather than the expression of opinion that it is. You’re also not quite correct on the original meaning of the term before it was run into the ground. The term “Mary Sue” originally referred to a character who was portrayed as “perfect” by the narrative. Being overpowered or not had nothing to do with it really, as long as the character is strong enough to not be seen as “weak”. Likewise, an overpowered character, male or female, can be fine, even brilliant, if handled in a way that still makes them interesting. The term was actually originally used to refer to the overly-idealized self-insert characters sometimes seen in fan fiction.
Meltman it’s a term that originally was meant to apply to fanfic ocs, has been run into the ground to the point where it’s original meaning has been entirely lost, and is nowhere near as common as you seem to think it is.
Not everyone unfortunately. I have seen some people making comments were they didn't like Dinsey making the final season focused on her instead of the other story arcs or characters like the Bad Batch on Kashyyyk, Assajj Ventress, Plo Koon meeting young Ahsoka and so on. And I have also seen comments where they stated that dressed a bit slutty. I grateful that we have gotten to see more of her to be honest and I can't wait for the Mandalorian Season 2 to come out.
@@SmellyUnfortunate007 Yeah, I think that the tv shows have always been a hit, but they always shat the bed with the sequel trilogy. Maybe one day Star Wars will be an exclusively tv/comic/game thing rather than movies.
@@dist0rted320 Yeah I agree. I didn't like the sequel trilogy to be honest because I felt that it was too rushed. I think there should be a TV show that takes place before or after the sequel trilogy in order to add context and to flesh things out more. If you like them, then I am happy for you. :)
I remember all of this, Asoka was being dubbed the next Jar Jar. I was one of those kids that that didn’t give a shit and loved the show, including Asoka. I still love the show now flaws and all.
'Anakin is a Gary Stu. He blew up a battle station in a Naboo Starfighter he never used before. The only piloting he HAS done before is a Pod Racer. But they are clearly completely different machines, since he's the only human that has ever been able to pilot a podracer, which is also pretty Gary Stu-y' 'No but he's the Chosen One so it's ok.' 'Oh so he's the Chosen One sent to save the Galaxy as a whole with his Laser Sword? Wow, that isn't a Gary Stu at all!' 'No but then he falls from grace, showing that being the Chosen One doesn't make him perfect! It actually made him worse!' 'So then why is it ok for the Chosen One title to aid him when he's taking on a Battle Station, but not when he's turning to the Dark Side? Or can we just accept the fact that Luke and Anakin got to be OP force gods because of their bloodline, and so can Rey?' '... NO YOU'RE AN SJW CUCK F I L T H!' 'And now it's political.' *Strawman Argument crafted by: An idiot with too much free time.*
@@thnkng Anakin is not a Gary Stu on a personal level. He's conflicted and makes unethical decisions. Power does not define mary/gary stu status. This is why Ahsoka and Rey in TROS are not Mary Sues and Rey in TFA & TLJ is. Ahsoka made mistakes, was rash and naive (also the reason Luke was not a Gary Stu in the OT). Rey in TROS was conflicted and willing to turn to the dark side for the sake of victory. Rey in TFA & TLJ was never conflicted and always made the right choice for the sake of doing the best for everyone and was never challenged emotionally in a way that presented her a tangible choice the audience believed she would take. People talk about mary/gary stu status all the time but base it purely off of power dynamics. Its about character status AND power level. If a character is able to overcome any situation, emotional or physical, without *developing* the character, then they are a Mary/Gary Stu.
@@bemasaberwyn55 I can't stand those kinds of people. The kind who hate any female main character in any show. The kind who use "SJW" or "PC" as an insult. The kind who hate everything and expect you to too. The kind who say "You just eat any shit (insert company/creator name here) slaps the (insert franchise name here) label on and shoves down your throat". Or "You're not a real fan of (insert franchise here) if you like (insert latest instalment of said franchise here)".
0:00 " Has the magical impact of George Lucas's original Vision of Star Wars been reduced to the level of Saturday morning animation?" Well...considering Lucas wanted A New Hope to begin in the middle of the Saga like a random Saturday morning cartoon episode....
When they started writing Asokha well: "She'a cool character!" I didn't care for her in the Clone Wars film (which wasn't and still not great, imo) or early on in the series, but she grew to be a good character because she was backed by good writing and execution.
Its the way she grew that really saved the character. Asokha started off as a goofy kid, but already two seasons in was maturing. Then by the time we reached Rebels we got to see her as an adult woman who had grown very wise over her years. It was an amazing character arc.
@@jacoblyman9441 and in my Opinion, the fact that she was like that at the beginning made her Characterarc much more cathartic. I always liked Ashoka, and i really like the Clone Wars Movie honestly. Always did and still do^^
Ahsoka's character was fine from the jump. Her maturing is crucial yes, but she was a kid when she was first introduced. I don't think people realize that.
Anakin- "dude i was 9 years old when I blew up a whole droid command blockaid ship in a naboo fighter i had never tried." star wars fans: _short term memory occurs_
seems ur the one on short term memory. ship was on auto pilot forcing the kid into battle. As for destroying the blockaid ship, OOOPs - Anakin u know when ur trigger happy shooting off droids and accidently fired the nuke button into the main reactor
@DejaVoodooDoll I seem to remember that the kid who played him was bullied and his performances in recent years still made fun of and his character was and I think is still disliked. I think that victory was accidental.
Honestly the comment on her clothes is the funniest part. Like "oh no, a teenager who really doesn't understand what war is like is dressed like a teenager" lmao. And let's be real, it's not like Jedi robes are deflecting blaster bolts or anything. She's effectively as armored as Yoda. Besides armor would just slow her down since she uses a pretty acrobatic fighting style
Payon de Well I mean to play devils advocate. Asoka and Rey are different. Asoka has jedi training, and will still fail. So why she’s powerful is explained, and she doesn’t always suceed. Thusly the term mary sue is unfitting Meanwhile with Rey she doesn’t really fail, and her power is unexplained for how strong she is. Thusly the term is fitting. Though As someone who doesn’t like the new series I do agree that criticism of Starwars needs to be better. Instead of going “BLAH BLAH BLAH MAREY SUE CUNTHLEEN FAILEDY NEW STARWARS BAD. MANDALORIAN GOOD. GIVE GOOD GUY FAVREAU SERIES.” Cause that doesn’t consider the good aspects of the new series such as the amazing visuals and the interesting concepts (even if their not pulled off the best.) and the bad aspects of the mandalorian. Such as the sometimes meandering pace, and how the format of the mandalorian may not be the best fit for a film.
@@awesomechainsaw I can't even be mad at you for this. I disagree but you talked like you were speaking to a person and not trying to belittle me. And I won't do that to you either. I get where people are coming from when they say Rey is a Mary Sue, but if they would just look at the series she really isn't (at least more than the other main characters in Star Wars). Rey is so desperate to find her place she looks to everybody else to show her without looking internally. But really, I'm super happy with the state of Star Wars media right now. I love the movies, The Mandalorian is pretty great so far, and the new game is also great. Thanks for not insulting me right off the bat and calmly expressing your opinions, it gives me hope for this fan base.
Payon de Honestly I agree that people need to be calmer. It prevents discussions like this. I think I’ll rewatch the series with the “desperate to find a place in the universe” perspective. See if I come around to the new series. Cause I do honestly wish that I could enjoy it. Here’s hoping the next series is one that will unite the fans. Though as a side note the reason there is so much hate is due to a flaw in how our brains work. Just go watch CGP Grey’s “This Video will make you angry” to understand how vitriol spreads better.
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09Maybe not bigger, but I'd say Anakin in The Phantom Menace. He blows up a Trade Federation Cruiser in the middle of a real war zone on accident having never flown a ship before. I'm not saying this bothers me, because it really doesn't, I'm just saying to hold these movies to the same standard. Rey doesn't do anything that extreme, she outruns a couple TIE fighters and then we get the line that tells us she has flown before. She is always failing, she is desperately looking for somebody to show her her place, she even admits that to Luke. And when Kylo offers to give her a place she's genuinely tempted because Han hadn't shown her and Luke hadn't shown her and now Kylo is trying.
Fanbase cycles is a funny thing, that exist in prolonged franchises, like Star Wars and Doctor Who. In example of the second: Everyone hates new Doctor -> Starting to kinda like the new Doctor -> This new Doctor is awesome! -> Everyone starts crying when Doctor starts to change, and cries "Don't go!" are bashing sound barriers and the cycle repeats itself. So as Star Wars. Almost everyoe hates new trilogy and in the next generation, it's good. But it seems, that current generation will defenety watch for any person, that will like Sequel Trilogy, and they should.
"Almost everyone hates new trilogy" isn't the case now. As much hate as the PT got, it probably wasn't the case back then either. Aside from that bit of exaggeration, you make a fine point.
@@FerretLG1 Maybe the fact that she was a child who had to take care of herself alone in a desert taught her certain skills. She fought with anakin's saber in tfa in a way similar to how one would wield a staff (which she carries with her). If anyone in the star wars universe is a mary sue, it's anakin.
@@FerretLG1 Just wait for like 5 years suddenly Rey will be a fan favorite and the new kid on the block will be bullied. Just like Anakin, Ahsoka, Jar Jar, the clone troopers, etc.
@@kid14346 No, she won't be a fan favorite. Ahsoka at that time was fairly new, and people misjudged her as a Mary Sue, but Rey already had 3 movies to develop to be a great, fleshed out character just like Ahsoka at the end of her run, but unfortunately that's not what happened. Wasted potential.
"The overwhelming sense of *girl power* is so stifling I think George Lucas is being forced..." That actually stung. Ahsoka did not deserve to be reduced to that. I think I'm well within my right to call out mysogyny on that one.
I mean a lot of the criticism does just come from pure sexism. Because guys can't have girls in "their" shows because it ruins their immersion or something I dunno
@@seanegan8150 I think it also has a lot to do with the way she was marketed during the show's promos. Ahsoka was this nobody character who was going to play an important role and no one ever heard of her before and she was introducing characters the audience already knew as if she were the one telling the story and implying her eventual importance in the lives of major characters without earning it. She also had this casual laid-back tone of voice that came off sounding childish and condescending. So I can kind of understand why fans didn't like her at first glance, however it feels like people heavily associate those characteristics with female characters and that's why people would feel that they ruin everything before getting to know the character. I think why Rey didn't start receiving those criticisms, comments and descriptions until after people saw her in films was because Ahsoka's character took the opportunity to develop and mature after getting those comments. By the time Rey rolled around fans became a lot more analytical and I like to think Ahsoka helped pave the way for fans to embrace more female characters because Leia's successes were kind of ignored, and Rey's character pretty much had an easy start with fans mentally prepared to see a new female Jedi character because by then fans understood the force strikes 50/50 at any given species and gender. What they weren't expecting was Rey being everything they feared Ahsoka would be and when she got those criticisms Rey didn't take the opportunity to develop and change. The writers kept her the same out of pride and 0 imagination and that's why she's so disliked up until her final film where as Ahsoka had become a beloved character by the time she appeared again in Star Wars Rebels.
Veneration of the already-established while hatefully rejecting that which is new or different is not something unique to Star Wars fandom. That's life throughout all of human history.
@Fleer Ultra Yeah you've clearly missed the point. I'm speaking from a majority stand point. Doesn't matter whether YOU liked it. You're not the majority then. The cycle goes likes this: Prequels hated upon release and is now loved and praised by a majority. The clone wars series hated at first and like the prequels is now loved and praised. Rebels well what do you know once again it was hated at first and now a majority of people like it. Rogue one was also disliked for many reasons the ending being one and now it's praised. Heck even solo is the same. And the force awakens is slowly starting to get praised. Just wait until the rise of Skywalker comes out and every body starts praising the last Jedi as if they never hated it. It's rinse and repeat with this fandom. Always jumping on the bandwagon to fit in. I'm not the biggest fan of the sequels either. I enjoy them but I know what their flaws are. But I don't deny the truth of this cycle.
Grimm Reaper nomad people just love to hate it so it has lotta fans it’s simple as that all my friends in real life love the movie if that’s all that fucking matters in my opinion I don’t give a fuck what any idiots on the Internet say bitch about it all you want am I right
Its amazing what can happen when you are patient and wait to see a story as a whole - So often Star Wars is judged before the reveal of the vision. I think we are about to see the same thing happen once Rise of Skywalker comes out and people can finally see how everything connects. Good to see your channel growing by the way.
Travis Hightower Absolutely. Personally the biggest one for me is I can’t wait for Snoke’s actual fate to be revealed so people stop bitching about how “lol worthless character, they’re just going back to Palpatine again” Somehow they forget Palpatine is known to use powerful bad guys as pawns in a bigger plan.
Man, how times have changed. “Ahsoka is bratty, overpowered, and disobedient and I don’t like her” transformed into “Rey is boring, she’s overpowered, why can’t she be a good, well-written character like Ahsoka?”. Bizarre to say the least.
DejaVoodooDoll anything to do with the force requires a certain level of knowledge of it, so why don’t you try again, before you try to protect something as trashy as the story currently being told
DejaVoodooDoll wait who are you arguing for ? Against Asohka is better than Rey or that Rey is better than asohka ? Also why are you trying to be smart ass with your crappy comebacks lmao, fucking parole officer, haha, had me dying irl
@DejaVoodooDoll Dude, chill out. I made this comment on audience approval of Ahsoka vs Rey, not on wether one is Mary Sue or not. I have my own thoughts on both characters, but you need to take it down a notch, man. You instigated this whole thing.
Joseph Martins he’s one of those nerds behind a computer desk type of person lmao 😂, Ima just leave it at that, honestly like having discussions on RUclips but with people that can debate without getting fired up. :/
This is why I give Star Wars time. When the OT came out, people didn’t like some parts. Prequels came out, people praised the OT. Sequels came out, people began praising the Prequels. It’s a never ending cycle.
Yeah it's clearly evident what you said is the case so I can't wait for this new trilogy to step away from mediocre to bad quality to absolute greatness and fantastic execution and writing exactly like clone wars did for history to 100% complete its repeating. Trouble is they only have 1 film to do it whilst clone wars had at least 5-6 seasons with great stuff still peppered in the early ones so I have faith but am apprehensive that maybe history doesn't repeat itself this time round
Fans said it about the prequels... basically everything related to the main Star Wars story that is new "Star Wars Fans" hate it. This is history repeating itself over and over.
Well hopefully with episode 10 "Oh man it's Rey" "Oh God it's that weird alien kid how does he know how to pick a light saber he's only got 2 fingers" "Boo episode 10 sucked they made rey look like a jobber she was so cool 7 years ago" That's literally what going to happen
This accusation of Ahsoka being Mary Sue is so ridiculous. I see some star wars fans are just dumb and whenever they see female character they will scream something like:"It's bad feminism", or they will dislike that she is strong character, and she have various skills. But if the character will be male, then everything is fine, male character can be OP, he can have various skills but he is not Gary Stu.
Nolan Conway may I ask what isn’t true? People used to criticize Leia for ruining every scene she was in. If you watched the video, the same thing happened to Ashoka. The Rey debate isn’t new, this is old criticism from a “more civilized’ time.
I think people often use the term Mary Sue when criticizing female characters. It doesn’t necessarily apply. If it were a male character, they’d just say he’s poorly written. In the clone wars movie, ahsoka was annoying and wasn’t that great of a character. In the show, they made her into a great character. The only scenario where the Mary Sue criticism work is with Rey since she is perfect at everything and has no flaws.
“Quiet and Obedient like Leia” Ah yes remember when she famously did what she was asked and totally did not Rebel? Remember how she told Vader the actual truth and killed the Rebels? That was nice of her
Let’s be real, though: from her start in TCW to her return in Rebels, she went through a lot and for it, seriously developed and matured from it in a way that humbled a lot of her critics.
Exactly! So many Star Wars fans nowadays are men in their 30s and 40s who grew up when Star Wars first came out, they can’t seem to handle seeing a female Star Wars character take The spotlight and not be the one being saved. I’m not saying characters like Ashoka or Rey (especially not Rey) are perfectly written characters, but you don’t see these same Star Wars fan boys complaining about Poe or Finn or any of the new male characters do you?
@@alleydoesstuff4147 I seem to recall people complaining a lot about Anakin in the prequels. I think people tend to care more about the main protagonist over side characters like Poe or Fin. It's dangerous to make assumptions as, after all, only the sith deal in absolutes.
I vividly remember seeing The Clone Wars movie in cinemas with my aunt, brother and uncle-in-law as a 9-year-old kid. It was my first time watching anything Star Wars in a cinema and I loved it. I would never have guessed that the series would still be around by the time I'd grown up to be 21 years old, but I think that speaks to the quality and impact the series has had on people. I'm really looking forward to seeing the final season on Disney+ once they release it in my region.
6:46 Holy shit how boring of a show would that have been? Like, I can't count how many times Ahsoka disobeying Anakin has saved him. Also having a Padawan that is obedient and did everything they are told would create literally 0 conflict. And stories kinda need conflict.
much like ... Holdo should have told Poe or even followed HIM instead...yep, zero conflict. People claim they know all about story writing after watching a YT vid or an RLM vid, and yeah...not really ... ^^
@@FeebleBird903 That's also why they Anakin and Obi Wan are paired together. If Qui Gon lived, Anakin wouldve never fell to the Dark Side. There would be no Star Wars story.
I skipped Clone Wars back in the day. I wrote it off as a "kid show" It wasn't until much later that it was on Netflix that I actually gave the show a chance. I was amazed how enjoyable I found that show. It was much more serious than I ever gave it credit for and was surprised how deep it was and how often people died.
Dude, same. I actually did try to watch it on TV but school and stuff got in the way. My brother convinced me to watch it on Netflix and I'm very thankful he did. U ready for S7?
Same. I wrote it off as a show for kids (especially after the movie) but I decided to give it a chance on Netflix and was blown away at how good it was! Excited for season 7
Same. But I do hate that she spent so much time going into battle in a tube top. She was 14 for god's sake. She's not going clubbing! Feloni got her costume right in Rebels. Sleeveless Samurai Armor FTW.
These are literally the exact same arguments people are having about the sequel trilogy... same tone and everything, same amount of people who like it same amount of people who are so so on it and the same people who hate it in the exact same way as people hate the sequel trilogy now and are louder than everyone else.
The difference is that this was the beginning of the Clone Wars. Just a few months after it set foot. It had a lot to deliver over the years before it changed minds and turned in to a fan favourite. The stories got more complex, graphics got better, and the characters were developed. Did sequels do it? Will Ep.9 change everyones' minds? We'll see.
There's nothing wrong with disliking a star wars movie or having criticisms as a star wars fan. I just find it sad how so many star wars "fans" seem to let hate guide their emotions. Whether it's the prequels, The Clone Wars, or now the sequel trilogy, if you truly are filled with so much hate against "current" star wars, I question what kind of lessons you actually learned from star wars to begin with.
@@Commander_Shepard. I see where your coming from as Clone Wars did only get better and better as it went on though I think that the show started out very good though that might be because it was the first Star Wars thing I watched as a kid. I also hope that Rise of Skywalker is good enough to help mend the split in the fandom though nothing will ever fix the split completely.
@@Commander_Shepard. I tell you this - if Rey kills Palpatine once and for all in TROS, there is absolutely no coming back from that. No one who dislikes Rey now, will EVER like her at any point thereafter, even if they try to improve the character later in books and such.
I like that over the years the clone wars has become more and more cherished. I feel it matured a lot since it’s debut. I’ll admit the movie and season 1 was kinda gimicky but after a while it become so detailed and interesting. Well worth a watch
The discourse leading up to TROS is exhausting. Thank you. I keep needing these reminders. I am not 7 years old, but I love the Sequel Trilogy and even as I do my damnedest to avoid it, it still creeps in and it just makes me start to not like the thing I love and I hate that it does that. So again, thank you.
@@Commander_Shepard. It's true though. Claiming that it's not is plain and simple bad faith. I absolutely despised TCW when it came out and pretty much hated Ahsoka for the same reasons represented here (except for the Mary Sue thing since I didn't know the existence of that term then).
@@gr13v0u5 I'm not saying it's not true, it's just a redundant thing to say. Of cause people who are the most passionate about something (or someone) are the most critical about them. I don't care about Star Trek, so I can enjoy the reboot movies, but I'm pretty sure most of Star Trek fans don't take it so light-heartedly. Same with Star Wars, same with any franchise, same with loved ones.
@@Commander_Shepard. Except that kind of behavior isn't love, it's obsession. They try to force their selfish and narrow-minded definition of a franchise that doesn't belong to them to justify their hatred of a specific thing they don't like about it. Since you're RPing as Commander Shepard, I'm going to take the example of Mass Effect. People hated the ending of ME3 because they didn't get what they wanted. They wanted a cheesy happy end that didn't fit the crepusculous atmosphere of the game at all and lost sight of the fact that the series as a whole has always been about making choices that had a massive impact on the story. Control = Shepard dies, but becomes the ultimate protector of the galaxy. Synthesis = Shepard dies, but creates a galaxy where synthetics and organics are one and the same and no longer at war. Destroy = Shepard lives and destroys the Reapers, but destroys the Geth and EDI as well. *_Consequence._* They went through an entire trilogy of 90+ hours of gameplay laden with impactful storytelling decisions and expected the final, most important decision of the entire series to not have any consequence for any the parties involved. They forgot that they are only allowed to evolve along a path that has been predetermined by the developers, that freedom of choice in a video game is only the ILLUSION of choice. The exact same logic can be applied to Star Wars. It's not the fans who decide what direction a franchise will take, it is the creators and rights owners who do and the fans are only the receptors of it.
though i agree with you the general opinion in 10 years will likely be different. and at the end of the day we like what we like, and we dislike what we dislike.
@@scotty3675 no no he didn't the point of the video was to show how toxic the star wars fanbase have done over the years and how some say a female character etc are Mary sues pr some other mindless drivel for no logical reason. This joke is proving Greedo point in the fact this is a fanbase of 35 yearold children
This is the song that doesn’t end Yes it goes on and on, my friend Some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and we’ll continue singing it forever just because...
To be fair, when the show first started out, the quality of the show is not as good as the ending of the show. Bad writing can make or break a character
Thx for saying everyone in the comment is being so dishonnest pretending like those comments are by trolls while they have the insight of her later character developement and know what her character would later become.
Tetemovies4 No, you exaggerate too much. “Everyone” is not that dumb here. Nor did most of anyone here claim the quotes were made by trolls. The quotes in this video as clearly stated is from review and forum posts. So we all know its not from trolls. Most of the comments in here is either about: a. observent comment about the evolution of fandom reaction till now while making a bit of fun out of it; or b. making fun of a few of the outlandish quotes (like how Ahsoka should be more like an obedient Leia, or the girl power); The only one who have a narrative about “hurr durr trolls” is you.
Young female force user exists Star wars fandom: Is this a mary sue? I swear most people don't even know what a mary sue actually is. Ahsoka was never one.
@@ryansutter9434 Remember how Rey sloppily flew the Falcon, got caught by Han and Chewie, released Rathtars when trying to shut the doors, fled from the saber when it called to her, got easily overpowered by Kylo and captured, and then got 1 good hit on him in the forest only when they show multiple times that he was badly wounded and bleeding on the snow from Chewie shooting him? Rey was far from amazing at everything, I guess she did know ship tech, but she was a scavenger, and she did a Jedi Mind trick on the 3rd try, but that's not unreasonable if her premise is that she is strong but untrained.
@@Zyphent sloppily flew the falcon??? She did things han solo wishes he could do.... kylo wasn't badly injured. He was banging his chest to show off how strong he is. Also, he just destroyed Finn, who is a trained soldier, and then proceeds to be defeated by a girl who just touched a lightsaber for the first time.
"Quiet and obedient like Leia" Are we talking about the same Leia that was a complete bad ass, leader of the rebels and helped Han and Luke stop a war? Also Asoka is amazing and I will forever love her!!
Rey: Dammit! Does nothing please these people? I'm either too good to be a Jedi, or I make too many mistakes! Wtf do I do? Ahsoka: Don't worry young padawan, they'll love you soon enough
I both love it and loathe it when you do these walks down memory lane in Star Wars fandom. Ultimately, it just shows how many people just act like jerks. :( ..... which makes me sad.
@@ultrayamchareturns4434 how? She struggled with piloting the falcon and she was kidnapped by kylo and almost defeated by kylo in 9 and in 7 when rey fights kylo kylo was injured by chewie and barley by finn
Mogbel Almogbel have you even seen episode 9 she managed to kill a overpowered palpatine with just two light sabers while palpatine just destroyed almost a whole fleet with force lightning
This comment section makes me feel like the only person in the universe who didn't find Ahsoka annoying, even in the movie. I actually thought her snappiness was kinda funny and I still do. I love seeing her struggle and I love seeing Anakin go through a whole range of emotions while talking to her. Plus, to me, she was a kid, so her actions always seemed realistic to me. I enjoyed the Ahsoka/Anakin dynamic from the very beginning. Maybe I just have too much patience.
Yeah, remember the times when hating on Clone Wars series was a thing. Most the time people couldn't get past the idea that the big media project around the Prequels wasn't as influential as George Lucas, which would normally greenlight changes to the canon for storytelling sake. So, yeah.. Grievous ran away from fights instead of killing ten jedi. Clone Commandoes weren't bred but picked from the normal ranks. And that one Jedi Master who survived Order 66, dies some time before it. Ventress's whole species, the Rattataki, were completely replaced by Nightsisters. People were hella mad, but it somehow didn't prepare them for the Disney EU wipe. It's almost like it's forgot to preserve their anger towards what Lucasfilm is cooking with today.
I'm in my 50's and Ahsoka has become one of my favorite Star Wars characters... Between Clone Wars and Rebels I think Ahsoka has one of the best character arcs in the intire franchise.
@@copyrightstrikez_bandit143 Uhm, no, not even close at all. This shows characters were awful, the returning characters were all watered down shells of their former selves, it missed out on numerous chances to be great, almost every fight wasn't engaging in the slightest, basically every death was a shitty off screen explosion, it centered around Ezra who was terrible, and there are many more reasons why this show isn't up there with the greatest Star Wars content ever.
I didn’t see the movie until they showed it on Cartoon Network. I honestly was grateful for the show because it gave me something to enjoy during lonely Friday nights when my parents were divorcing and when whoever I had to stay with had to leave for the night for work or another reason leaving me alone. It gave me a comfort when I didn’t have anyone to talk to or book to read to keep my mind off of things.
I always thought she was done perfectly. I was around 12 when the show came out. I had seen the movie, and ultimately was not too impressed. To me, the movie was just a money grab, although it introduced the idea of the personality changes to the characters we already knew from the saga films, the story was lacking. When I started watching the show with giddy excitement on Cartoon Network every week, my reaction (to put into few words) was: "Wow, this is better than the prequels could ever hope to be." The character development was natural. It showed Anakin's gradual pull to the dark side. It showed Obi-Wan's wit and humor better than the prequels. Ashoka was a great character. She had the most development and growth. To me back then, she felt relatable. She was the same age as I was and she was watching everyone else change around her as she was growing with the story. She actually became one of my favorite star wars characters of all time. She fit with Anakin: he was the young upstart Padawan that was arrogant. That's why Yoda sent her to Anakin. She was just like him in many ways. She was supposed to be a little annoying. She was supposed to be a little cheesy. She was supposed to be a kid: someone who makes mistakes; someone who is cocky and thinks she knows everything, only to learn that in fact she has much to learn.
I think what makes Ahsoka really great is that she's someone we've grown up with. As she matured and aged, so did we. And even despite everything that happened to her, she still kept on and fought as hard as she could.
Ashoka' a great written character. She was a young fearless padawan who had a lot to learn from her master and who was willing to learn from him but also not afraid to speak her mind when she believed there was a better way. She also was not a Mary Sue because she did have failures she needed to overcome This is how you write good characters in general regardless of their gender and Ashoka is the opposite of what Rey's character is
That monologue at the end spoke right to me. I was born in 2002 and watched the Clone Wars as it came out. So glad there's so much support behind it now. Clone Wars is definitely *my* Star Wars - I love OT and PT, but I'm afraid they don't strike the same chord as Clone Wars does.
I was in middle school when the show came out, and I was going through a "girly phase" as a preteen because society basically told me I shouldn't like boy things. The thing is deep down I loved that crap, action and dark plots, I even watched DBZ before I was 6 but was told not to watch it because it was violent. I had never seen anything Star Wars before the show came out and knew very little about it, and looked down on it for being stupid. Then I ironically watched one episode and was hooked for life, and I especially related to Ahsoka who was close to my age. Some people don't realize the importance of seeing yourself on the screen when they have that luxury provided to them all the time. If you're an adult male you can turn on basically anything and see yourself. It's not that we can't enjoy things that aren't similar to our own lives, but especially as children it's an important bridge to help us relate to what we see on the screen. I've been an avid Star Wars fan ever since, and it's all thanks to that awesome show. The fact that some people hate on it because it didn't cater to them personally is sad and shows the kind of entitled thinking some elitist Star Wars fans have regarding the property. I can appreciate things that aren't exclusively tailored to me, and I hope others can learn to do the same. Also because I didn't know anything about the movies, I fell in love with all the characters, including Anakin, not knowing he turned into Darth Vader. That was a brutal surprise XD. A lot of screaming ensued. But it was nice to get to know the character and his good side before the twist.
infinitekurosoul thanks for sharing your experience. So, I’m curious - and there won’t be any judgement, regardless of how you answer - what’s your take on the sequel trilogy?
@@darthknightwingphoenix2081 Well honestly I think my opinion would be pretty skewed. I haven't even watched the Prequel movies yet, not that I'm avoiding them but I just never get around to it and already know more or less what happens in them through cultural osmosis. Also I would make a bad movie critic because I tend to enjoy most movies unless they're actively horrible. I look for the good in each movie and focus on the positives, that way I walk out always enjoying myself. This makes me not that critical when it comes to judging movies, although I still have preferences. I enjoyed the Sequel movies when I watched them because they were entertaining, and I suspect because I didn't have that big of a nostalgic hook to the OT cast. To me the prequel characters (in the show) were my introduction to the world so I hold them a little more dear. I think that's why fans who were around since the OT tend to hate the sequels and the way they treat the OT characters, because they are the characters they hold dear. Not that I dislike the OT characters, I think I'm just less critical about how their journey is taken. I understand that this is the turn for a new generation, so even though I cried when Han and Luke died, I understood it had to be done as a passing the torch kind of thing. Personally though I think I liked Rogue One better than the other movies overall. There are some scenes like the red throne room fight, or the lightspeed ship crash that were just amazing to watch, but in the bigger picture Rogue One made a better more cohesive movie (maybe cuz it's a stand alone movie). I'm definitely watching Rise of Skywalker when it comes out, and honestly I just hope they do Leia justice. It sucks that Carrie passed away, I would have loved to see what the creators would have done with the character and her journey in the end.
@@darthknightwingphoenix2081 thanks. I'm sure you have your own reasons for it, I've watched many reviews and read differing opinions on it, and although I don't agree with all of them, I can understand where most people are coming from. At least from the way I see it Star Wars is more about the story of a galaxy rather than a few characters, and if you don't enjoy the characters currently being focused on there will always be something else in the universe you can enjoy, whether it's comics or tv shows or maybe future movies. I hope you find something to enjoy within the franchise
infinitekurosoul oh, I have. The older games, some of the current comics, the books, and the Mandalorian are all thoroughly enjoyable for me. And you’re right, there’s a galaxy’s worth of content in Star Wars, and that’s what makes it Star Wars.
Someone pointed out a fact about that somewhere in the thread. She was an accurate depiction of a 14 year old. Teenagers are often annoying, and not anything like the standards that young adult movies, shows and books set. With that comes unwarranted cockiness, and not much of a sense of consequences or dangers. Ahsoka matured throughout the show and made a shitload of mistakes that made her grow. Plus honestly, she wasn't any more annoying than movie Anakin was. And he was also a teen in Episode 2 and is still moody and weird in Episode 3, while clone wars Anakin actually feels like he could be a general. Meanwhile movie Anakin is the kind of person I wouldn't trust with a butter knife, let alone a padawan with how emotionally unstable he is. Which is granted, playing into how he gets manipulated to the Dark Side, but like. There's a difference. Clone Wars Anakin is supposed to be before RoTS Anakin, yet he feels more adult and mature still.
@@pcrassen4975 First, Ahsoka was a raised as a padawan, so depicting her as an average 14 year old would actually be inaccurate for the setting as she would have had a VERY different upbringing; an upbringing with a lot more discipline and would have discouraged certain behavior. Second, Teenagers are often annoying, but not always and saying "that's how teenagers are" is not an excuse for writing her the way they did. The writing in the early episodes were pretty weak and got much better in later seasons which is also when they had Ahsoka grow up and leave her more annoying tendencies behind.
That’s why I don’t care much about immediate reactions to characters and projects. Usually with time the things fandoms used to hate are now beloved a few years later.
@@MonteCreations just because she was trained as a padawan doesn't mean her behavior was inaccurate she was young and needed time to be more discipline.
These posts were written in 2008/2009. This is when season one of the show was being released, and it was not very good. This TV show is my favorite of all time, however you have to keep in mind that the show wasn’t the masterpiece that I know it to be yet.
Battle droids were some of the best parts of the clone wars and prequels. Their dialogue and fuck ups managed to make me laugh probably once per episode.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
"She should be obedient and quiet like Leia"
Me: *DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE MOVIES*
Yeah exactly. The woman who sassed off to Dark Vader despite being practically powerless. ‘Quiet and Obedient’. I think we all learn that hindsight is 2020
*sigh* I apologize for that ignorant dude displaying toxic masculinity... that was one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard about Ashoka
Robert Parkhurst dark vader?
“i don’t know where you get you’re delusions, Laser brain”
I'm not an SJW, but if I were...I would say that comment says a lot about his opinions on women. hahaha
"Ahsoka is a Mary Sue."
Amazing. Everything you just said was wrong.
remember that time she got grounded by Obi Wan
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.
It's ironic because back then she was everything but that, now in Rebels you can really see how much of a writer's pet she is.
@@papawedge7396 You are confused with Rey. Ahsoka deserves her grow.
Super Smash Revan Like what people say about Rey
Early Ahsoka haters: I will NEVER like this character
Me, present day: Ironic
Why is it ironic? The writing was below mediocre on the The Clone Wars film. That's still how most people think, even people who love the show now. They just massively stepped their game up each season, and that's why she was finally respected and Clone Wars loved. Sequel trilogy is a whole different story. No step-up there, unless they do a show for them too, but there isn't really a cool iconic world to build on, except if lend from, well, the prequels/clone wars.
@@finnslibrary2189 The ironic was meant to mean that Ahsoka became a well loved character by the end of TCW, even by many of the people who claimed they would never like her. Not about the writing in the movie.
oh god the ahsoka circlejerk is unbearable these days
I didn’t like her because I was a five year old boy who didn’t like girls. As I grew up with the show I grew to appreciate her. And now she is my favorite Star Wars character
@@ericshawn3169i always liked her but she's my fave character too
Someone really called her a Mary Sue? She used to fk up all the dang time.
Ikr? its almost as if star wars criticisms have never changed...
If she's a Mary Sue then ever female Star Wars character is a Mary Sue. It pathetic how some people's minds work.
The term "Mary Sue" has lost all its meaning from all of its nonsensical misuse in the fandom.
Rey did not aacomplish much as well so far, except for lifting rocks after finding Luke ... ^^
As a fan who hated Rey's Mary Sueness and NOT a huge fan of Clone Wars(its a fine show just didnt go crazy for it) Ashoka was NEVER a Mary Sue
I love how Ahsoka is now a fan favorite among the star wars community
Yeah but she was bad in the first 2 seasons
Maybe because they developed her better...
Its amazing what can happen when you are patient and wait to see a story as a whole - So often Star Wars is judged before the reveal of the vision. I think we are about to see the same thing happen once Rise of Skywalker comes out and people can finally see how everything connects.
@@writingref Exactly my feelin. The Last Jedi might be a dark horse and they my man Finn wrong, but overall I like the trilogy
@@writingref Yes. I am very excited for Rey Palpatine Skywalker.
"Quiet and obedient like Leia"
Yes, the woman who helped lead the Rebellion and was brave enough to spit in Vader's face. a very quiet and obedient woman
Not only spit in the face of Darth Vader but also choke out a planetary gangster
Not only that, but lead the Rebellion against her own father.
How obedient.
Maybe they spent more tine jerking off to her slave outfit and ignored everything else about her
@@HighKingOfSkyrim37 666
Well she did as a political figure at least seemingly on the outside or?
“I wish Ashoka was like Leia. OBEDIENT AND FOLLOWS RULES.”
Ah yes the REBEL leader LEIA.
Who talked back to one of the most dangerous men in the galaxy TO HIS FACE.
@@saintyboi9258 Basically she mouthed off to her spoiler
@@raccoonnerd405 really? It was like over 30 years ago.
You gotta be shitting me
@@saintyboi9258 she basically has Anakins sass
The "she should be quiet and obedient like Leia" made me laugh
Yeah, that sounds like the opposite of Leia to me!
“Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader’s leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.”
“Will someone get this big walking carpet out of my way?”
“Someone has to save our skins. Into the garbage chute, fly boy.”
“Why, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking, Nerf-herder!”
“You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them.”
Yep. Quiet and obedient...:-)
“I am not a committee!”
If anything, she's *more* obefient than Leia.
LEIA IS THE OPPOSITE OF QUIET AND OBEDIENT!
"Ahsoka is a Mary Sue"
Ahsoka loses entire fleet in an attempt attack because she did not retreat when Anakin told her to
Exactly
Just a squadron of fighters not a fleet. Just a semantic thing I know what you mean
@@guitartruong3981 Well because she refused to retreat, one of the venator class star destroyers was destroyed and another heavily damaged. Leaving one left, you could say that was her destroying the fleet.
Mary Sue at this point doesn't even should be considered valid criticism. There are many characters that fit this trope's criteria yet are well written. Nowadays this is just a buzz word.
You think
Ahsoka DID take a little while to become a good character--but once she did, she was one of the best in the whole show. She just needed time to grow.
Like every character its one of the reason why i like damian wayne he is just a passive aggresive ass but as soon as he met super boy that turn into a fun thing .
Literally. She went through puberty on the front lines. She started out with zero experience and ended up with more experience than anyone could have imagined.
I know but to me she was always a great character.
Yes, because she had 6 seasons of development. Rey had 2 movies.
@@dpgamezderek8137 6 seasons, one movie, one book, then again, another season and some more episodes.
Rey had two movies, which weren't even written by the same people.
So yeah, I agree, a bit unfair.
It’s so scary. This shows that ‘Star Wars’ criticisms never changed.
They haven’t changed since 1997
@@Reesej0520 Since the very beginning, dude.
Bruh, I’m the only Sully in this community
@@TheSirUno I'm not sure if A New Hope was criticized for the same reasons...
@@damandelorean a new hope was criticized for being a blatand rip off
Hater: she's too perfect
Also Hater: she makes too many mistakes
Sounds very familiar
@@TianoAnnunziata I happy Bedlam is canon
Random Person in Forum: "I hope she survives Order 66."
Star Wars Rebels: *YES*
rebels: allow me to introduce myself
Then Rise of Skywalker came along.
Well actually yes but no
@@cristhianmlr it was said that her being in the movie didn't mean she died. But they also said she can be. We've seen this kind of thing happen before in different ways in star wars (not dbz give me your energy way) but like seems with Leia hearing Luke's cry for her underneath bespin
cristhianmlr Well, that’s a good 55 years after Order 66. Ahsoka would be over 70 by that point, so if she was dead (up in the air right now), she lived a pretty long life.
Ah yes, Ashoka who has spent her entire life devoted to the Jedi order, undergoing as much training as Obi-Wan before the Phantom Menace, is a Mary Sue.
yeah that was the dumbest comment I had ever seen in this video
What makes ray a Mary Sue is that she had literally no training
Hey, she cutted rocks with a lightsaber, give her some credit.
@@joaquinfernandez1752 ....anyone with a frickin' lightsaber could learn to swing at a rock and cut in half. 😑
@@gamma2589 thats my point, her so called training is bullshit and just adds a point for her being a mary sue.
Star Wars fans never change:
“New stuff bad”
A couple years pass
“WHY NEW STUFF WAS UNDERRATED”
This is why I don't take anyone seriously when they say "Star Wars is dead/ruined." It's always just a stupid fad.
Watch the same thing happen with the sequel trilogy it will be loved and the joke will be on Star Wars fans
That's because the "old" fans that suffer from nostalgic bias gets replaced by "new" fans suffering from the same, but with the never shows/movies. It's a vicious cycle, and, as Greedo says, Star Wars is a generational thing.
Mason P I hope to see when Disney will f*ck up SW so much that the fans start loving the sequels.
@@masonpyle5929 no it won't, especially because of TLJ
“She should be like Leia. Quiet and Obedient.”
Leia: “Very poor choice of words.”
For some reason people forget that Luke was the more reserved and soft spoken one while Leia got Anakin's sass.
Well she did as a political figure at least seemingly on the outside or?
Nothing describes Leia worse than "quiet and obedient."
"Give the fans what they want!"
"Sure, when they know what they want. They seem to change their minds every five years."
Well yeah, people/fans grow overtime. Makes sense. This is why shows have a different goal almost every season. Otherwise that shit gets boring.
@@patrioticcat5768 also creators change. Sometimes they'll stick to the original goals or they have a change in direction or they felt the story will be better served told this way or they lose interest and they need to decide to give the reigns to another or continue and hope thier lack of interest won't hurt the project.
Most fanfics are just dumb
💯 this statement is sound
It's called character development jeeze you guys don't watch many other shows or movies do you
I love how the consensus gradually changed from “Oh gosh, when are they gonna kill off Ahsoka and Rex” to “Oh gosh, please don’t kill off Ahsoka and Rex”.
I don’t recall anyone hating Rex
Lmao
@@kylecampbell565 at most I saw some people who were indifferent to rex initially
dude, i was 9 years old at the time, she annoyed me then. Then she grew, matured and my god shes one of my favorite characters
She sort of grew up with the viewers in that way, and it was all natural. She may be one of the few animated characters that actually has character progression across the entirety of their series. The same could be said for other Clone Wars characters like Anakin, Rex, Ventress, and Fives.
Ectasy of Gold
😂
@@NikoCoy top comment here
@@NikoCoy lol wtf
@@NikoCoy same bruh
People didn't understand that when Ahsoka started off she was a child. So it doesn't surprise me that she behaved the way she did. People really are just ignorant
Yeah, but that wasn't even what people were complaining about. She really was annoying, but the absolute hate people had for her was amazing.
No hate but they could've had her be less annoying
She was an average 14 yr old girl except when it came to Jedi related stuff
She spent her entire life being raised by the Jedi, she shouldn't act like your typical teenager.
@@cyke55 the only "young" jedi that didn't act up was obi wan lol what you mean
Ahsoka has actual character development. She started out as an annoying apprentice into an awesome force user
I think the reason so many people thought she was annoying was because she was actually a pretty on-point depiction of a 14-year-old...I didn't think she was annoying at first, but that's because I was a couple years younger than her! The goofy nicknames for Anakin and R2, the recklessness, the overconfidence - all are characteristic of a young, lighthearted teenager who doesn't have a good sense of risk or consequences. Most of her character arc is her repeatedly screwing up out of naivete and out of a desire to prove herself, and then becoming a better person as a result of learning from her mistakes.
@@RianeBane So the things that Anakin himself never did and as per the movies remained a moody man child til the point he got dismembered and burned into Darth Vader. Like seriously, Clone Wars Anakin feels leagues ahead of movie Anakin.
@@pcrassen4975 His 2003 Clone Wars depiction however is spot on to his character
RianeBane Mmm...no, not really. Her whole arc ended the way it did specifically because she didn’t learn from her mistakes.
@@DiggerPat How so?
I was a fan of The Clone Wars from the beginning, and I remember so many "true" star wars fans telling me that The Clone Wars was terrible for disregarding the expanded universe.
Now they're complaining that the EU isn't canon anymore.
But that's true, TCW was first block of decanonizing EU
@@goodmind4940 The EU sucked anyways, there were a few gems in it (Thrawn), but it was mostly garbage.
I'm ashamed to admit that I was one of the show's haters back when it started. Oh, how time and open-mindedness can change a man.
@@AstroAvenger that's not true, only early EU was shit
“Right next to those annoying battle droids” *Sad roger roger noises *
"I hate my job" - random Droid 84872925
Jesus Gonzalez “and it just went into over time” -random droid 84872925
"We're independent thinkers!"
"RODGER RODGER."
"RODGER RODGER."
"RODGER RODGER."
PokeDude011 “uhh where are we supposed to go...? ... Uhhh I guess I’m in charge now” - another random droid
jesus how can people hate those nice and tiny pretty battledroids, they're awesome, love them, they really make that special atmosphere of the clone wars
Im confused with how ahsoka is supposed to push "girl power" her being a girl never really came up as an issue, just her being younger than the standard padawan.
Her existing and being female is enough for them to get upset. Just overt sexism honestly
I think people often confuse the hype or media interpretations around a character for the character itself. The story itself doesn't make gender an issue around Ahsoka. It's other people's excitement for the character being a female, a potential role model for young girls, that yields the "girl power" thing: something that may have been lauded feminist fans at the time, but not really supported by narrative elements in the show...and thank goodness for that: I was one of those young girls who was enamored with the characte at first, but now that I'm older and kind of a skeptic of the feminist movement I would view the character with disdain if she legitimately had a feminist bent.
Ok I’m asking to not be judgemental with what I’m about to say BUT I’m slowly watching TCW, Im on Season 4 right now. I grew up in the time that the prequels were coming out. I was 12 when Revenge Of The Sith came out, I grew up with Anakin and Obi-wan. Even with the amazing cartoon of TCW which was with the clones and a littile more action/adventure stuff with Anakin and Obi-wan, my point is and Im still questioning it but why is Ahsoka on this series? I feel like Anakin is a baby sitter and there aren’t much bro moments with Obi and Ani and that’s what I grew up with. Not a girl in the middle trying to be cool with them while feeling like a drag to the stories. Then again Im only on Season 4 of TCW and maybe somewhere along the way she earns her coolness or respect but for now with her it makes it less Star Warsy for me. Literally Rey is far cooler imo.
Darth Sarcom I think it was her age that got me
@@s7robin105 "Sexism" Sure...
"...reduced to the level of Saturday morning animation?"
Yeah, because it's not like this series drew heavy inspiration from film serials, the original Saturday morning block, or anything. No, never.
And honestly these people must have just forgotten the wacky-ass Ewoks cartoon from the 80s 😂
It was on Friday nights too if I remember correctly.
The same hypocrites that like to bash Rebels too despite that it has changed a lot.
That person also clearly never saw the Ewok cartoons, THAT was far more dumbed down the CW.
@@kennethferland5579 If I have a kid, I want to show them Ewoks/The Battle of Endor before the movies. That way when they're watching RotJ, it's this unexpected crossover.
To paraphrase Maz : When you're a Star Wars fan this long, you see the same ridiculous complaints from many people.
The Star Wars fanbase can often be a good reminder of how dense, cynical, and overly sure of themselves people can be. A good thing to remember honestly.
Agreed
@@Epiousios18 Wow and it's also a good thing to remember how dense, overly optimistic, pandering HelloGreedo's fanbase of consumerist morons are.
These criticisms are from outdated voiceacting, animation, and plot, from a movie that was poorly recieved all around, as the franchise lore was changing.
Ahsoka was considered a Mary Sue at that time because she took on three Magnagaurds and Ventress in that same movie. In the clone wars before that they were actually considered difficult opponents, so it's not like the criticism is unwarrented. But as the lore change and we saw her struggles, and the writing vastly improved as well as animation on the show. Opinions quickly changed.
@PapaWill its a shame the fandom itself is incapable of change. Don’t believe, just look at how they react to a Star Wars movie versus when the prequels came out. People in the Star Wars fandom keep saying that they always loved the prequels and that they think their brilliant, but they sure didn’t express this when they came out. Heck if they were nicer about then George probably wouldn’t have even have sold Star Wars in the first place, so there’s something for all those people who are complaining about Disney ruining Star Wars to think about. Honestly ruining Star Wars was movement they started a long time ago in a galaxy far far away and its one that they’re still helping to keep pushing forward even today. They honestly I think the hate is still not as bad today as when it was during the prequels. I mean when Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones came out the fandom bullied a ten year old actor (Jake Loyd) into giving up acting and eventually committing crimes, nearly bullied another actor (Ahmed Best) into committing suicide, and pretty much ruined Hayden Christensens career. Today the Star Wars Fandom only managed to bully one actor (Kelly Marie Tran) into quitting social media,(with the exception of a few meatheads who are making up reasons to pick on other actors like Daisy Ridley and John Boyega) so its only about 3 to 1. Yep that’s the Fandom Menace for you, I’m sure we’re all proud to be a part of the same people who did all those things I just listed above. Can’t wait for the comments of people trying to cover up what I just said with fake excuses to deny what I said being true or claim that it was justified or less serious. Also f#k the Fandom Menace. I’m not apologizing, they earned that one. (Also this isn’t really into for anyone in this comment section, just an honest claim)
@@anonymouspotato1082 they bullied a child actor? Jeusus Christ what the hell is wrong with this fandom?
"Ahsoka is and forever will be the bane of the clones wars"
Are you sure about that?
If Ahsoka is the bane of the clone wars..... what does that make Cad Bane?
@@ventinian8475 🤯
Maybe he mean Darth Bane
So essentially, the internet never changed.
Humans never change.
Star Wars, Star Wars never changes.
OH NO! "It's like poetry, it rhymes" - George Lucas
damn rapunzel fuck you it’s goddamn beautiful poetry
Show: Has a girl who is strong or outspoken or sassy.
Inevitably Someone: THE GIRL POWERNESS IS JUST BEING SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT
Truce Truce ur a fucken simp
ZOKIN2000 Me, a girl: Girls should be allowed to have a range of personalities
You, an idiot: SIMP
Seriously, you’re like the human equivalent of spreading frozen butter on toast.
@Nathan-DTS did you even read the reply
“Lets say you’re 18 years old now” damn its like he’s telling my story
same
Same. I was 10 when the show started and the idea of getting a new Star Wars 20 minute story every week blew my mind.
Same
SAME
same
People: “she’s a Mary Sue”
Ahsoka: literally has been training for her whole life in the Jedi arts, and was not just a random person given powers because why not
@ルカ Not to mention Vader wiped the floor with her, and she was used to fighting him via training. If she was a Mary sue that would've never have happened.
Anyone who uses the term “Mary Sue” unironically doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously anyway.
@@yedffgd That's not true. It's a valid term used to describe a common trope in media.
Ryan Schott the way people have used the term “Mary Sue” means it’s no longer a “fine term” for anything. All it means nowadays “is female character I personally do not like, but am to lazy to explain why”, and the same people who use it also tend to treat the statement “x is a Mary Sue” as a statement of fact that cannot be argued with, rather than the expression of opinion that it is. You’re also not quite correct on the original meaning of the term before it was run into the ground. The term “Mary Sue” originally referred to a character who was portrayed as “perfect” by the narrative. Being overpowered or not had nothing to do with it really, as long as the character is strong enough to not be seen as “weak”. Likewise, an overpowered character, male or female, can be fine, even brilliant, if handled in a way that still makes them interesting. The term was actually originally used to refer to the overly-idealized self-insert characters sometimes seen in fan fiction.
Meltman it’s a term that originally was meant to apply to fanfic ocs, has been run into the ground to the point where it’s original meaning has been entirely lost, and is nowhere near as common as you seem to think it is.
And then she's in the season 7 trailer and everyone loves it.
Bc she is the best. Her fall from grace was so well done
@@beeseebee_ Absolutely.
Not everyone unfortunately. I have seen some people making comments were they didn't like Dinsey making the final season focused on her instead of the other story arcs or characters like the Bad Batch on Kashyyyk, Assajj Ventress, Plo Koon meeting young Ahsoka and so on. And I have also seen comments where they stated that dressed a bit slutty.
I grateful that we have gotten to see more of her to be honest and I can't wait for the Mandalorian Season 2 to come out.
@@SmellyUnfortunate007 Yeah, I think that the tv shows have always been a hit, but they always shat the bed with the sequel trilogy.
Maybe one day Star Wars will be an exclusively tv/comic/game thing rather than movies.
@@dist0rted320 Yeah I agree. I didn't like the sequel trilogy to be honest because I felt that it was too rushed. I think there should be a TV show that takes place before or after the sequel trilogy in order to add context and to flesh things out more.
If you like them, then I am happy for you. :)
I remember all of this, Asoka was being dubbed the next Jar Jar. I was one of those kids that that didn’t give a shit and loved the show, including Asoka. I still love the show now flaws and all.
Ahsoka has become my favorite Star Wars character over the years.
Definitely! She’s amazing
Legit. I didn't like her at first (mostly because everyone else didn't either), but now she's one of my favorite characters.
In my top 3.
@@ClarkusMarkus I loved her from the start. I went to see the movie for my 9th birthday, so age was probably a large factor.
I just remember how relieved I was when I realized that she would survive Order 66. That's when I knew I loved her.
Ahsoka loses literally every lightsaber duel she has ever been in the clone wars
internet: "She is a Mary Sue"
Until rebels she kicked ass in that show
@@danielsawaked685 And I loved every second of it!!!
Female character: *breathes*
""""""Media critics""""""": What a Mary Sue.
Mary Sue's are more of a past 5 or 6 years thing. I don't remember it being a problem with many people back then. But I was also 6 at the time so.
mary sue? didn't obi "kill" maul a sith lord as a padawan when his master couldn't?
Yes, yes he did.
'Anakin is a Gary Stu. He blew up a battle station in a Naboo Starfighter he never used before. The only piloting he HAS done before is a Pod Racer. But they are clearly completely different machines, since he's the only human that has ever been able to pilot a podracer, which is also pretty Gary Stu-y'
'No but he's the Chosen One so it's ok.'
'Oh so he's the Chosen One sent to save the Galaxy as a whole with his Laser Sword? Wow, that isn't a Gary Stu at all!'
'No but then he falls from grace, showing that being the Chosen One doesn't make him perfect! It actually made him worse!'
'So then why is it ok for the Chosen One title to aid him when he's taking on a Battle Station, but not when he's turning to the Dark Side? Or can we just accept the fact that Luke and Anakin got to be OP force gods because of their bloodline, and so can Rey?'
'... NO YOU'RE AN SJW CUCK F I L T H!'
'And now it's political.'
*Strawman Argument crafted by: An idiot with too much free time.*
@@thnkng Anakin is not a Gary Stu on a personal level. He's conflicted and makes unethical decisions. Power does not define mary/gary stu status.
This is why Ahsoka and Rey in TROS are not Mary Sues and Rey in TFA & TLJ is. Ahsoka made mistakes, was rash and naive (also the reason Luke was not a Gary Stu in the OT). Rey in TROS was conflicted and willing to turn to the dark side for the sake of victory. Rey in TFA & TLJ was never conflicted and always made the right choice for the sake of doing the best for everyone and was never challenged emotionally in a way that presented her a tangible choice the audience believed she would take.
People talk about mary/gary stu status all the time but base it purely off of power dynamics. Its about character status AND power level. If a character is able to overcome any situation, emotional or physical, without *developing* the character, then they are a Mary/Gary Stu.
@@Elemental-Phoenix "Rey in TFA & TLJ was never conflicted and always made the right choice" that is, quite literally, false
And didn't Luke push 2 TORPEDOES into a reactor shaft without fail?
"It rhymes, it's like poetry"
*3rd Wars of the fanboys begins*
They may have gone too far in a few places
@@GskitzIndustries may have? I've been called an SJW CUCK for liking all SW(admittedly empire is my least favorite of the saga)
It's kinda funny how the themes of star wars are ignored by the very fans who love them.
@@cuttlefish6839 indeed
@@bemasaberwyn55 I can't stand those kinds of people. The kind who hate any female main character in any show. The kind who use "SJW" or "PC" as an insult. The kind who hate everything and expect you to too. The kind who say "You just eat any shit (insert company/creator name here) slaps the (insert franchise name here) label on and shoves down your throat". Or "You're not a real fan of (insert franchise here) if you like (insert latest instalment of said franchise here)".
0:00 " Has the magical impact of George Lucas's original Vision of Star Wars been reduced to the level of Saturday morning animation?"
Well...considering Lucas wanted A New Hope to begin in the middle of the Saga like a random Saturday morning cartoon episode....
What?
More accurately he structured it like a 40s serial film which was the inspiration for many Saturday morning cartoons
When they started writing Asokha well: "She'a cool character!"
I didn't care for her in the Clone Wars film (which wasn't and still not great, imo) or early on in the series, but she grew to be a good character because she was backed by good writing and execution.
@Eragor the Kindhearted Hear, hear.
;-)
Its the way she grew that really saved the character. Asokha started off as a goofy kid, but already two seasons in was maturing. Then by the time we reached Rebels we got to see her as an adult woman who had grown very wise over her years. It was an amazing character arc.
@@jacoblyman9441 Indeed.
:-)
@@jacoblyman9441 and in my Opinion, the fact that she was like that at the beginning made her Characterarc much more cathartic. I always liked Ashoka, and i really like the Clone Wars Movie honestly. Always did and still do^^
Ahsoka's character was fine from the jump. Her maturing is crucial yes, but she was a kid when she was first introduced. I don't think people realize that.
Anakin- "dude i was 9 years old when I blew up a whole droid command blockaid ship in a naboo fighter i had never tried."
star wars fans: _short term memory occurs_
Except people hated young anakin, and they still don't like him
@@Lazypackmule HEY LOVED HIM AS A KID
seems ur the one on short term memory. ship was on auto pilot forcing the kid into battle. As for destroying the blockaid ship,
OOOPs - Anakin
u know when ur trigger happy shooting off droids and accidently fired the nuke button into the main reactor
@DejaVoodooDoll I seem to remember that the kid who played him was bullied and his performances in recent years still made fun of and his character was and I think is still disliked. I think that victory was accidental.
Will Wunsche u mean r2d2 destroyed the droid command block aid ship while anikan was doing barely rows because he didn’t know how to fly the ship
Honestly the comment on her clothes is the funniest part. Like "oh no, a teenager who really doesn't understand what war is like is dressed like a teenager" lmao. And let's be real, it's not like Jedi robes are deflecting blaster bolts or anything. She's effectively as armored as Yoda. Besides armor would just slow her down since she uses a pretty acrobatic fighting style
God so many people love throwing around the term Mary Sue whenever Star Wars is concerned.
Payon de Well I mean to play devils advocate. Asoka and Rey are different.
Asoka has jedi training, and will still fail. So why she’s powerful is explained, and she doesn’t always suceed. Thusly the term mary sue is unfitting
Meanwhile with Rey she doesn’t really fail, and her power is unexplained for how strong she is. Thusly the term is fitting.
Though As someone who doesn’t like the new series I do agree that criticism of Starwars needs to be better. Instead of going “BLAH BLAH BLAH MAREY SUE CUNTHLEEN FAILEDY NEW STARWARS BAD. MANDALORIAN GOOD. GIVE GOOD GUY FAVREAU SERIES.”
Cause that doesn’t consider the good aspects of the new series such as the amazing visuals and the interesting concepts (even if their not pulled off the best.) and the bad aspects of the mandalorian. Such as the sometimes meandering pace, and how the format of the mandalorian may not be the best fit for a film.
@@awesomechainsaw I can't even be mad at you for this. I disagree but you talked like you were speaking to a person and not trying to belittle me. And I won't do that to you either.
I get where people are coming from when they say Rey is a Mary Sue, but if they would just look at the series she really isn't (at least more than the other main characters in Star Wars). Rey is so desperate to find her place she looks to everybody else to show her without looking internally.
But really, I'm super happy with the state of Star Wars media right now. I love the movies, The Mandalorian is pretty great so far, and the new game is also great. Thanks for not insulting me right off the bat and calmly expressing your opinions, it gives me hope for this fan base.
Payon de Honestly I agree that people need to be calmer. It prevents discussions like this. I think I’ll rewatch the series with the “desperate to find a place in the universe” perspective. See if I come around to the new series. Cause I do honestly wish that I could enjoy it. Here’s hoping the next series is one that will unite the fans.
Though as a side note the reason there is so much hate is due to a flaw in how our brains work. Just go watch CGP Grey’s “This Video will make you angry” to understand how vitriol spreads better.
@@PayondeAwsome Name one character that's a bigger Mary Sue than Rey.
@@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09Maybe not bigger, but I'd say Anakin in The Phantom Menace. He blows up a Trade Federation Cruiser in the middle of a real war zone on accident having never flown a ship before. I'm not saying this bothers me, because it really doesn't, I'm just saying to hold these movies to the same standard. Rey doesn't do anything that extreme, she outruns a couple TIE fighters and then we get the line that tells us she has flown before. She is always failing, she is desperately looking for somebody to show her her place, she even admits that to Luke. And when Kylo offers to give her a place she's genuinely tempted because Han hadn't shown her and Luke hadn't shown her and now Kylo is trying.
Fanbase cycles is a funny thing, that exist in prolonged franchises, like Star Wars and Doctor Who. In example of the second:
Everyone hates new Doctor -> Starting to kinda like the new Doctor -> This new Doctor is awesome! -> Everyone starts crying when Doctor starts to change, and cries "Don't go!" are bashing sound barriers and the cycle repeats itself.
So as Star Wars. Almost everyoe hates new trilogy and in the next generation, it's good. But it seems, that current generation will defenety watch for any person, that will like Sequel Trilogy, and they should.
* d e f i n i t e l y
"Almost everyone hates new trilogy" isn't the case now. As much hate as the PT got, it probably wasn't the case back then either.
Aside from that bit of exaggeration, you make a fine point.
@@Dorian_sapiens everybody does hate the new trilogy though,and its well deserved
Rey: Everyone is accusing me of being a Mary Sue.
Ahsoka: First Time?
Rey is a Mary Sue though. Ashoka had character development. Rey is just amazing because.
@@FerretLG1 Maybe the fact that she was a child who had to take care of herself alone in a desert taught her certain skills. She fought with anakin's saber in tfa in a way similar to how one would wield a staff (which she carries with her). If anyone in the star wars universe is a mary sue, it's anakin.
@@FerretLG1 Just wait for like 5 years suddenly Rey will be a fan favorite and the new kid on the block will be bullied. Just like Anakin, Ahsoka, Jar Jar, the clone troopers, etc.
@@kid14346 No, she won't be a fan favorite. Ahsoka at that time was fairly new, and people misjudged her as a Mary Sue, but Rey already had 3 movies to develop to be a great, fleshed out character just like Ahsoka at the end of her run, but unfortunately that's not what happened. Wasted potential.
@@aarsyn3254 I have seen plenty of girls dressed as Rey. She might just not have been to your taste. Peace be with that.
Oh yeah. I can’t believe Leia was so quiet and obedient when she was talking to Vader on the Tantive IV.
oh... remember when Leia was wearing the metal bikini and chains. she was so obedient as she choked Jabba to death.
Toxic fan: “Obedient and follows rules like Leia.”
Me: “I don’t know where you get your delusions, laserbrain.”
"The overwhelming sense of *girl power* is so stifling I think George Lucas is being forced..."
That actually stung. Ahsoka did not deserve to be reduced to that.
I think I'm well within my right to call out mysogyny on that one.
I mean a lot of the criticism does just come from pure sexism.
Because guys can't have girls in "their" shows because it ruins their immersion or something I dunno
@@seanegan8150 I think it also has a lot to do with the way she was marketed during the show's promos. Ahsoka was this nobody character who was going to play an important role and no one ever heard of her before and she was introducing characters the audience already knew as if she were the one telling the story and implying her eventual importance in the lives of major characters without earning it. She also had this casual laid-back tone of voice that came off sounding childish and condescending. So I can kind of understand why fans didn't like her at first glance, however it feels like people heavily associate those characteristics with female characters and that's why people would feel that they ruin everything before getting to know the character. I think why Rey didn't start receiving those criticisms, comments and descriptions until after people saw her in films was because Ahsoka's character took the opportunity to develop and mature after getting those comments. By the time Rey rolled around fans became a lot more analytical and I like to think Ahsoka helped pave the way for fans to embrace more female characters because Leia's successes were kind of ignored, and Rey's character pretty much had an easy start with fans mentally prepared to see a new female Jedi character because by then fans understood the force strikes 50/50 at any given species and gender. What they weren't expecting was Rey being everything they feared Ahsoka would be and when she got those criticisms Rey didn't take the opportunity to develop and change. The writers kept her the same out of pride and 0 imagination and that's why she's so disliked up until her final film where as Ahsoka had become a beloved character by the time she appeared again in Star Wars Rebels.
I'm a guy and even I've got to admit that's a low blow. Ahsoka is on of my favorite Star Wars characters. That was just uncalled for
Hate the new love the old. The infamous star wars cycle..
Veneration of the already-established while hatefully rejecting that which is new or different is not something unique to Star Wars fandom. That's life throughout all of human history.
@@AbjectPermanence Yep. But it's most noticeable in the star wars fandom.
@Fleer Ultra Yeah you've clearly missed the point. I'm speaking from a majority stand point. Doesn't matter whether YOU liked it. You're not the majority then. The cycle goes likes this: Prequels hated upon release and is now loved and praised by a majority. The clone wars series hated at first and like the prequels is now loved and praised. Rebels well what do you know once again it was hated at first and now a majority of people like it. Rogue one was also disliked for many reasons the ending being one and now it's praised. Heck even solo is the same. And the force awakens is slowly starting to get praised. Just wait until the rise of Skywalker comes out and every body starts praising the last Jedi as if they never hated it. It's rinse and repeat with this fandom. Always jumping on the bandwagon to fit in. I'm not the biggest fan of the sequels either. I enjoy them but I know what their flaws are. But I don't deny the truth of this cycle.
Grimm Reaper nomad people just love to hate it so it has lotta fans it’s simple as that all my friends in real life love the movie if that’s all that fucking matters in my opinion I don’t give a fuck what any idiots on the Internet say bitch about it all you want am I right
But the Mandalorian gets alot of praise.
It's almost like fandom itself is a parallel of the theme of the ST. History repeats itself 👍
It’s like poetry it rhymes
@@arc4859 😂
It’s just a lot more vicious and aggressive now
Its amazing what can happen when you are patient and wait to see a story as a whole - So often Star Wars is judged before the reveal of the vision. I think we are about to see the same thing happen once Rise of Skywalker comes out and people can finally see how everything connects. Good to see your channel growing by the way.
Travis Hightower
Absolutely. Personally the biggest one for me is I can’t wait for Snoke’s actual fate to be revealed so people stop bitching about how “lol worthless character, they’re just going back to Palpatine again”
Somehow they forget Palpatine is known to use powerful bad guys as pawns in a bigger plan.
Lucasfilm: *Creates something new that is Star Wars*
Star Wars Fans: Thanks, I hate it.
Just like the the Mandalorian... wait.
@@and8091 no no no, you see if you fill it with enough nostalgia, you can pretend to treat it like it's great
Man, how times have changed. “Ahsoka is bratty, overpowered, and disobedient and I don’t like her” transformed into “Rey is boring, she’s overpowered, why can’t she be a good, well-written character like Ahsoka?”. Bizarre to say the least.
DejaVoodooDoll anything to do with the force requires a certain level of knowledge of it, so why don’t you try again, before you try to protect something as trashy as the story currently being told
DejaVoodooDoll wait who are you arguing for ? Against Asohka is better than Rey or that Rey is better than asohka ? Also why are you trying to be smart ass with your crappy comebacks lmao, fucking parole officer, haha, had me dying irl
@DejaVoodooDoll Dude, chill out. I made this comment on audience approval of Ahsoka vs Rey, not on wether one is Mary Sue or not. I have my own thoughts on both characters, but you need to take it down a notch, man. You instigated this whole thing.
Joseph Martins he’s one of those nerds behind a computer desk type of person lmao 😂, Ima just leave it at that, honestly like having discussions on RUclips but with people that can debate without getting fired up. :/
@DejaVoodooDoll ruclips.net/video/JN8Qm5o0oSY/видео.html
This is why I give Star Wars time. When the OT came out, people didn’t like some parts. Prequels came out, people praised the OT. Sequels came out, people began praising the Prequels. It’s a never ending cycle.
When the next trilogy comes out people will probably say the sequels are masterpieces.
I like how she's a Mary Sue when she was next to useless when she first appeared
Seeing what "fans" are saying about the Sequels, it just proves history repeats itself. You could say it's like poetry it rhymes
Yeah it's clearly evident what you said is the case so I can't wait for this new trilogy to step away from mediocre to bad quality to absolute greatness and fantastic execution and writing exactly like clone wars did for history to 100% complete its repeating. Trouble is they only have 1 film to do it whilst clone wars had at least 5-6 seasons with great stuff still peppered in the early ones so I have faith but am apprehensive that maybe history doesn't repeat itself this time round
LaRone CT-HK47 hopefully we get a fuckin sick TV show for the ST
LaRone CT-HK47 It's also clear Hellogreedo is a hypocrite, remember him shitting on this?
Fans said it about the prequels... basically everything related to the main Star Wars story that is new "Star Wars Fans" hate it. This is history repeating itself over and over.
Well hopefully with episode 10
"Oh man it's Rey"
"Oh God it's that weird alien kid how does he know how to pick a light saber he's only got 2 fingers"
"Boo episode 10 sucked they made rey look like a jobber she was so cool 7 years ago"
That's literally what going to happen
This accusation of Ahsoka being Mary Sue is so ridiculous. I see some star wars fans are just dumb and whenever they see female character they will scream something like:"It's bad feminism", or they will dislike that she is strong character, and she have various skills. But if the character will be male, then everything is fine, male character can be OP, he can have various skills but he is not Gary Stu.
This guy gets it.
Edit: or girl.
@@secs3 emperor is what you described "UNLIMITED POWER"
This just isn’t true but ok
Nolan Conway may I ask what isn’t true? People used to criticize Leia for ruining every scene she was in. If you watched the video, the same thing happened to Ashoka. The Rey debate isn’t new, this is old criticism from a “more civilized’ time.
I think people often use the term Mary Sue when criticizing female characters. It doesn’t necessarily apply. If it were a male character, they’d just say he’s poorly written. In the clone wars movie, ahsoka was annoying and wasn’t that great of a character. In the show, they made her into a great character. The only scenario where the Mary Sue criticism work is with Rey since she is perfect at everything and has no flaws.
“Quiet and Obedient like Leia”
Ah yes remember when she famously did what she was asked and totally did not Rebel? Remember how she told Vader the actual truth and killed the Rebels? That was nice of her
Let’s be real, though: from her start in TCW to her return in Rebels, she went through a lot and for it, seriously developed and matured from it in a way that humbled a lot of her critics.
Woman: *breathes*
Star Wars Fans: *breathes furiously*
Today, everyone loves Ashoka. I'd say it's more badly written female characters than anything else.
Exactly! So many Star Wars fans nowadays are men in their 30s and 40s who grew up when Star Wars first came out, they can’t seem to handle seeing a female Star Wars character take The spotlight and not be the one being saved. I’m not saying characters like Ashoka or Rey (especially not Rey) are perfectly written characters, but you don’t see these same Star Wars fan boys complaining about Poe or Finn or any of the new male characters do you?
@@alleydoesstuff4147 I seem to recall people complaining a lot about Anakin in the prequels. I think people tend to care more about the main protagonist over side characters like Poe or Fin. It's dangerous to make assumptions as, after all, only the sith deal in absolutes.
@@alleydoesstuff4147 I think Ahsoka's a great character, but those 40 year old neckbeards certainly wouldn't think so
Jonathan Hart ah but you see, the statement of saying ONLY sith deal in absolutes is itself an absolute
I vividly remember seeing The Clone Wars movie in cinemas with my aunt, brother and uncle-in-law as a 9-year-old kid. It was my first time watching anything Star Wars in a cinema and I loved it. I would never have guessed that the series would still be around by the time I'd grown up to be 21 years old, but I think that speaks to the quality and impact the series has had on people. I'm really looking forward to seeing the final season on Disney+ once they release it in my region.
6:46
Holy shit how boring of a show would that have been? Like, I can't count how many times Ahsoka disobeying Anakin has saved him. Also having a Padawan that is obedient and did everything they are told would create literally 0 conflict. And stories kinda need conflict.
Not to mention her disobedience leads her to grow as when she fails, she realizes that she's not always right. She could have just been lucky
much like ... Holdo should have told Poe or even followed HIM instead...yep, zero conflict. People claim they know all about story writing after watching a YT vid or an RLM vid, and yeah...not really ... ^^
Also Anakin never follows the rules lmao. It only makes sense that Ahsoka would be the same.
@@FeebleBird903 That's also why they Anakin and Obi Wan are paired together. If Qui Gon lived, Anakin wouldve never fell to the Dark Side. There would be no Star Wars story.
Hell Anakin often disobeyed Obi Wan and that ended up saving him
I always liked Ahsoka, she got me into Star Wars as a little girl and thanks to her I'm still into the fandom as a grown-ass woman lol
Rey: (gets called a Mary Sue right away). Ashoka: first time
I skipped Clone Wars back in the day. I wrote it off as a "kid show"
It wasn't until much later that it was on Netflix that I actually gave the show a chance. I was amazed how enjoyable I found that show.
It was much more serious than I ever gave it credit for and was surprised how deep it was and how often people died.
Dude, same. I actually did try to watch it on TV but school and stuff got in the way. My brother convinced me to watch it on Netflix and I'm very thankful he did. U ready for S7?
Same. I wrote it off as a show for kids (especially after the movie) but I decided to give it a chance on Netflix and was blown away at how good it was! Excited for season 7
Same. But I do hate that she spent so much time going into battle in a tube top. She was 14 for god's sake. She's not going clubbing! Feloni got her costume right in Rebels. Sleeveless Samurai Armor FTW.
These are literally the exact same arguments people are having about the sequel trilogy... same tone and everything, same amount of people who like it same amount of people who are so so on it and the same people who hate it in the exact same way as people hate the sequel trilogy now and are louder than everyone else.
The difference is that this was the beginning of the Clone Wars. Just a few months after it set foot. It had a lot to deliver over the years before it changed minds and turned in to a fan favourite. The stories got more complex, graphics got better, and the characters were developed. Did sequels do it? Will Ep.9 change everyones' minds? We'll see.
There's nothing wrong with disliking a star wars movie or having criticisms as a star wars fan. I just find it sad how so many star wars "fans" seem to let hate guide their emotions. Whether it's the prequels, The Clone Wars, or now the sequel trilogy, if you truly are filled with so much hate against "current" star wars, I question what kind of lessons you actually learned from star wars to begin with.
@@Commander_Shepard. I see where your coming from as Clone Wars did only get better and better as it went on though I think that the show started out very good though that might be because it was the first Star Wars thing I watched as a kid. I also hope that Rise of Skywalker is good enough to help mend the split in the fandom though nothing will ever fix the split completely.
@@Commander_Shepard. I tell you this - if Rey kills Palpatine once and for all in TROS, there is absolutely no coming back from that. No one who dislikes Rey now, will EVER like her at any point thereafter, even if they try to improve the character later in books and such.
@@robertwild9447 You just said exactly what I've been trying to say for so long but just couldn't find the words to say it myself... thank you.
That first comment about calling r2 artooe is dumb considering she did that as a nickname of affection.
I like that over the years the clone wars has become more and more cherished. I feel it matured a lot since it’s debut. I’ll admit the movie and season 1 was kinda gimicky but after a while it become so detailed and interesting. Well worth a watch
It's basically the one piece of Star Wars medium everyone can agree on.
The only way to "properly" enjoy Star Wars is retroactively.
Who the HELL says “meat on the bones”? It just sounds weird.....
Hello Asoka
Shut up Mary Sue
Jk ur my favourite Clone Wars character
Taking the damage quite good there Ahsoka xD
Shut up ahsoka you were better when you were a baby in season 1
The discourse leading up to TROS is exhausting. Thank you. I keep needing these reminders. I am not 7 years old, but I love the Sequel Trilogy and even as I do my damnedest to avoid it, it still creeps in and it just makes me start to not like the thing I love and I hate that it does that. So again, thank you.
The saying "No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans" always seems to ring true where ever you look in the franchises past
If I get a dollar for every time some ignorant smartass say that in this comment section.... lol
@@Commander_Shepard. It's true though. Claiming that it's not is plain and simple bad faith. I absolutely despised TCW when it came out and pretty much hated Ahsoka for the same reasons represented here (except for the Mary Sue thing since I didn't know the existence of that term then).
@@gr13v0u5 I'm not saying it's not true, it's just a redundant thing to say. Of cause people who are the most passionate about something (or someone) are the most critical about them. I don't care about Star Trek, so I can enjoy the reboot movies, but I'm pretty sure most of Star Trek fans don't take it so light-heartedly. Same with Star Wars, same with any franchise, same with loved ones.
@@Commander_Shepard. Except that kind of behavior isn't love, it's obsession. They try to force their selfish and narrow-minded definition of a franchise that doesn't belong to them to justify their hatred of a specific thing they don't like about it.
Since you're RPing as Commander Shepard, I'm going to take the example of Mass Effect. People hated the ending of ME3 because they didn't get what they wanted. They wanted a cheesy happy end that didn't fit the crepusculous atmosphere of the game at all and lost sight of the fact that the series as a whole has always been about making choices that had a massive impact on the story. Control = Shepard dies, but becomes the ultimate protector of the galaxy. Synthesis = Shepard dies, but creates a galaxy where synthetics and organics are one and the same and no longer at war. Destroy = Shepard lives and destroys the Reapers, but destroys the Geth and EDI as well.
*_Consequence._*
They went through an entire trilogy of 90+ hours of gameplay laden with impactful storytelling decisions and expected the final, most important decision of the entire series to not have any consequence for any the parties involved. They forgot that they are only allowed to evolve along a path that has been predetermined by the developers, that freedom of choice in a video game is only the ILLUSION of choice.
The exact same logic can be applied to Star Wars. It's not the fans who decide what direction a franchise will take, it is the creators and rights owners who do and the fans are only the receptors of it.
You can say that about any franchise, "nobody hates Alien more than Alien fans"
“Ahsoka is marry sue”
Rey: Let’s me introduce myself
DarkWiz888 you missed the point of this video
"Let's me" hmm you gotta take out the letter S
though i agree with you the general opinion in 10 years will likely be different. and at the end of the day we like what we like, and we dislike what we dislike.
Danny C. You missed the point of the joke
@@scotty3675 no no he didn't the point of the video was to show how toxic the star wars fanbase have done over the years and how some say a female character etc are Mary sues pr some other mindless drivel for no logical reason. This joke is proving Greedo point in the fact this is a fanbase of 35 yearold children
And here I am, 35yo and naming Ahsoka Tano my favorite Star Wars character. Her story is fantastic and technically still not finished.
This is the song that doesn’t end
Yes it goes on and on, my friend
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and we’ll continue singing it forever just because...
To be fair, when the show first started out, the quality of the show is not as good as the ending of the show. Bad writing can make or break a character
Thx for saying everyone in the comment is being so dishonnest pretending like those comments are by trolls while they have the insight of her later character developement and know what her character would later become.
Good point, Arubrix
Tetemovies4 No, you exaggerate too much. “Everyone” is not that dumb here. Nor did most of anyone here claim the quotes were made by trolls. The quotes in this video as clearly stated is from review and forum posts. So we all know its not from trolls. Most of the comments in here is either about: a. observent comment about the evolution of fandom reaction till now while making a bit of fun out of it; or b. making fun of a few of the outlandish quotes (like how Ahsoka should be more like an obedient Leia, or the girl power); The only one who have a narrative about “hurr durr trolls” is you.
Yeah. What do you think was the first AMAZING episode of the series? For me it was S1E6 “Rookies”
Also it takes time to develop great characters.
Young female force user exists
Star wars fandom: Is this a mary sue?
I swear most people don't even know what a mary sue actually is. Ahsoka was never one.
Jordan Read totally agree. And imo Rey isn’t one either. I just watched TFA and TLJ recently and noticed a lot of thing that disprove it.
@@ryansutter9434 Remember how Rey sloppily flew the Falcon, got caught by Han and Chewie, released Rathtars when trying to shut the doors, fled from the saber when it called to her, got easily overpowered by Kylo and captured, and then got 1 good hit on him in the forest only when they show multiple times that he was badly wounded and bleeding on the snow from Chewie shooting him?
Rey was far from amazing at everything, I guess she did know ship tech, but she was a scavenger, and she did a Jedi Mind trick on the 3rd try, but that's not unreasonable if her premise is that she is strong but untrained.
Zyphent totally agree. Also she fails a lot in the TLJ nothing goes right for her.
@Алексей Романов no luke won the fight what were u watching
@@Zyphent sloppily flew the falcon??? She did things han solo wishes he could do.... kylo wasn't badly injured. He was banging his chest to show off how strong he is. Also, he just destroyed Finn, who is a trained soldier, and then proceeds to be defeated by a girl who just touched a lightsaber for the first time.
"Quiet and obedient like Leia"
Are we talking about the same Leia that was a complete bad ass, leader of the rebels and helped Han and Luke stop a war? Also Asoka is amazing and I will forever love her!!
Rey: Dammit! Does nothing please these people? I'm either too good to be a Jedi, or I make too many mistakes! Wtf do I do?
Ahsoka: Don't worry young padawan, they'll love you soon enough
I both love it and loathe it when you do these walks down memory lane in Star Wars fandom. Ultimately, it just shows how many people just act like jerks. :( ..... which makes me sad.
New female character: hi my name is-
Star wars fan: *Ya fukkin Mary Sue!*
Agreed
@Master Yoda yeah but people love him that they don't notice
Rey is definitely a Mary Sue
@@ultrayamchareturns4434 how? She struggled with piloting the falcon and she was kidnapped by kylo and almost defeated by kylo in 9 and in 7 when rey fights kylo kylo was injured by chewie and barley by finn
Mogbel Almogbel have you even seen episode 9 she managed to kill a overpowered palpatine with just two light sabers while palpatine just destroyed almost a whole fleet with force lightning
"Let's say you're 18 years old now, watching this video"
How did you know?!
This comment section makes me feel like the only person in the universe who didn't find Ahsoka annoying, even in the movie. I actually thought her snappiness was kinda funny and I still do. I love seeing her struggle and I love seeing Anakin go through a whole range of emotions while talking to her. Plus, to me, she was a kid, so her actions always seemed realistic to me. I enjoyed the Ahsoka/Anakin dynamic from the very beginning. Maybe I just have too much patience.
Yeah, remember the times when hating on Clone Wars series was a thing. Most the time people couldn't get past the idea that the big media project around the Prequels wasn't as influential as George Lucas, which would normally greenlight changes to the canon for storytelling sake. So, yeah.. Grievous ran away from fights instead of killing ten jedi. Clone Commandoes weren't bred but picked from the normal ranks. And that one Jedi Master who survived Order 66, dies some time before it. Ventress's whole species, the Rattataki, were completely replaced by Nightsisters.
People were hella mad, but it somehow didn't prepare them for the Disney EU wipe. It's almost like it's forgot to preserve their anger towards what Lucasfilm is cooking with today.
I'm in my 50's and Ahsoka has become one of my favorite Star Wars characters... Between Clone Wars and Rebels I think Ahsoka has one of the best character arcs in the intire franchise.
Ngl, when at the end you said “you may be 18 and grew up on the clone wars” I was like “well shit, you got me”.
😂 same boat
And then we got the exact same thing in Rebels. It's a cycle that repeats.
Yes. Rebels' ending was great. Don't @ me.
@@mitwhitgaming7722 The show was still kiddy show garbage from beginning to end.
I like things In Rebels. But I don't like Rebels as a series
SW Rebels had a rough start, but those last 2 seasons were up there with the best SW content ever.
@@copyrightstrikez_bandit143 Uhm, no, not even close at all. This shows characters were awful, the returning characters were all watered down shells of their former selves, it missed out on numerous chances to be great, almost every fight wasn't engaging in the slightest, basically every death was a shitty off screen explosion, it centered around Ezra who was terrible, and there are many more reasons why this show isn't up there with the greatest Star Wars content ever.
I didn’t see the movie until they showed it on Cartoon Network. I honestly was grateful for the show because it gave me something to enjoy during lonely Friday nights when my parents were divorcing and when whoever I had to stay with had to leave for the night for work or another reason leaving me alone. It gave me a comfort when I didn’t have anyone to talk to or book to read to keep my mind off of things.
At SWC Chicago:
Ahsoka cosplayers taking a photo: AHSOKA LIVES!
Dave Filoni: For now....
This actually happened!!
Whenever I see someone on the internet call Rey a Mary Sue...
"It's like poetry...they rhyme."
@Russian Bot #67580024 okay boomer
@@weisenbergphoto Okay *Z O O M E R*
@@weisenbergphoto im 16 and I agree w him so call me a boomer all u want
@@willyates2787 *This right here ^^^*
*>Says Rey isn't a Mary Sue.*
*>Someone brings an argument about why she is one.*
*>Can't come up with a good argument so uses a dead meme.*
Look at her now... one of the most beloved characters.
I always thought she was done perfectly. I was around 12 when the show came out. I had seen the movie, and ultimately was not too impressed. To me, the movie was just a money grab, although it introduced the idea of the personality changes to the characters we already knew from the saga films, the story was lacking. When I started watching the show with giddy excitement on Cartoon Network every week, my reaction (to put into few words) was: "Wow, this is better than the prequels could ever hope to be." The character development was natural. It showed Anakin's gradual pull to the dark side. It showed Obi-Wan's wit and humor better than the prequels. Ashoka was a great character. She had the most development and growth. To me back then, she felt relatable. She was the same age as I was and she was watching everyone else change around her as she was growing with the story. She actually became one of my favorite star wars characters of all time. She fit with Anakin: he was the young upstart Padawan that was arrogant. That's why Yoda sent her to Anakin. She was just like him in many ways. She was supposed to be a little annoying. She was supposed to be a little cheesy. She was supposed to be a kid: someone who makes mistakes; someone who is cocky and thinks she knows everything, only to learn that in fact she has much to learn.
I think what makes Ahsoka really great is that she's someone we've grown up with. As she matured and aged, so did we. And even despite everything that happened to her, she still kept on and fought as hard as she could.
Ashoka' a great written character. She was a young fearless padawan who had a lot to learn from her master and who was willing to learn from him but also not afraid to speak her mind when she believed there was a better way. She also was not a Mary Sue because she did have failures she needed to overcome
This is how you write good characters in general regardless of their gender and Ashoka is the opposite of what Rey's character is
That monologue at the end spoke right to me. I was born in 2002 and watched the Clone Wars as it came out. So glad there's so much support behind it now. Clone Wars is definitely *my* Star Wars - I love OT and PT, but I'm afraid they don't strike the same chord as Clone Wars does.
I was in middle school when the show came out, and I was going through a "girly phase" as a preteen because society basically told me I shouldn't like boy things. The thing is deep down I loved that crap, action and dark plots, I even watched DBZ before I was 6 but was told not to watch it because it was violent. I had never seen anything Star Wars before the show came out and knew very little about it, and looked down on it for being stupid. Then I ironically watched one episode and was hooked for life, and I especially related to Ahsoka who was close to my age. Some people don't realize the importance of seeing yourself on the screen when they have that luxury provided to them all the time. If you're an adult male you can turn on basically anything and see yourself. It's not that we can't enjoy things that aren't similar to our own lives, but especially as children it's an important bridge to help us relate to what we see on the screen. I've been an avid Star Wars fan ever since, and it's all thanks to that awesome show. The fact that some people hate on it because it didn't cater to them personally is sad and shows the kind of entitled thinking some elitist Star Wars fans have regarding the property. I can appreciate things that aren't exclusively tailored to me, and I hope others can learn to do the same.
Also because I didn't know anything about the movies, I fell in love with all the characters, including Anakin, not knowing he turned into Darth Vader. That was a brutal surprise XD. A lot of screaming ensued. But it was nice to get to know the character and his good side before the twist.
infinitekurosoul thanks for sharing your experience. So, I’m curious - and there won’t be any judgement, regardless of how you answer - what’s your take on the sequel trilogy?
@@darthknightwingphoenix2081 Well honestly I think my opinion would be pretty skewed. I haven't even watched the Prequel movies yet, not that I'm avoiding them but I just never get around to it and already know more or less what happens in them through cultural osmosis. Also I would make a bad movie critic because I tend to enjoy most movies unless they're actively horrible. I look for the good in each movie and focus on the positives, that way I walk out always enjoying myself. This makes me not that critical when it comes to judging movies, although I still have preferences. I enjoyed the Sequel movies when I watched them because they were entertaining, and I suspect because I didn't have that big of a nostalgic hook to the OT cast. To me the prequel characters (in the show) were my introduction to the world so I hold them a little more dear. I think that's why fans who were around since the OT tend to hate the sequels and the way they treat the OT characters, because they are the characters they hold dear. Not that I dislike the OT characters, I think I'm just less critical about how their journey is taken. I understand that this is the turn for a new generation, so even though I cried when Han and Luke died, I understood it had to be done as a passing the torch kind of thing. Personally though I think I liked Rogue One better than the other movies overall. There are some scenes like the red throne room fight, or the lightspeed ship crash that were just amazing to watch, but in the bigger picture Rogue One made a better more cohesive movie (maybe cuz it's a stand alone movie). I'm definitely watching Rise of Skywalker when it comes out, and honestly I just hope they do Leia justice. It sucks that Carrie passed away, I would have loved to see what the creators would have done with the character and her journey in the end.
infinitekurosoul interesting. I hope you enjoy the movie, then. I’m not so sure that I will, or that I’ll even go see it.
@@darthknightwingphoenix2081 thanks. I'm sure you have your own reasons for it, I've watched many reviews and read differing opinions on it, and although I don't agree with all of them, I can understand where most people are coming from. At least from the way I see it Star Wars is more about the story of a galaxy rather than a few characters, and if you don't enjoy the characters currently being focused on there will always be something else in the universe you can enjoy, whether it's comics or tv shows or maybe future movies. I hope you find something to enjoy within the franchise
infinitekurosoul oh, I have. The older games, some of the current comics, the books, and the Mandalorian are all thoroughly enjoyable for me. And you’re right, there’s a galaxy’s worth of content in Star Wars, and that’s what makes it Star Wars.
Ahsoka used to be hated because of how annoying she was, a few years later and she's one of the most adored star wars characters ever created.
Someone pointed out a fact about that somewhere in the thread. She was an accurate depiction of a 14 year old. Teenagers are often annoying, and not anything like the standards that young adult movies, shows and books set. With that comes unwarranted cockiness, and not much of a sense of consequences or dangers. Ahsoka matured throughout the show and made a shitload of mistakes that made her grow.
Plus honestly, she wasn't any more annoying than movie Anakin was. And he was also a teen in Episode 2 and is still moody and weird in Episode 3, while clone wars Anakin actually feels like he could be a general. Meanwhile movie Anakin is the kind of person I wouldn't trust with a butter knife, let alone a padawan with how emotionally unstable he is. Which is granted, playing into how he gets manipulated to the Dark Side, but like. There's a difference. Clone Wars Anakin is supposed to be before RoTS Anakin, yet he feels more adult and mature still.
@@pcrassen4975 First, Ahsoka was a raised as a padawan, so depicting her as an average 14 year old would actually be inaccurate for the setting as she would have had a VERY different upbringing; an upbringing with a lot more discipline and would have discouraged certain behavior. Second, Teenagers are often annoying, but not always and saying "that's how teenagers are" is not an excuse for writing her the way they did.
The writing in the early episodes were pretty weak and got much better in later seasons which is also when they had Ahsoka grow up and leave her more annoying tendencies behind.
That’s why I don’t care much about immediate reactions to characters and projects. Usually with time the things fandoms used to hate are now beloved a few years later.
@@MonteCreations just because she was trained as a padawan doesn't mean her behavior was inaccurate she was young and needed time to be more discipline.
Lmao imagine how dumb the clone wars haters feel now
These posts were written in 2008/2009. This is when season one of the show was being released, and it was not very good. This TV show is my favorite of all time, however you have to keep in mind that the show wasn’t the masterpiece that I know it to be yet.
@@Mys10c Big facts. I always skip season 1 when I rewatch the series. The humor and episode themes weren't solid until season 2
The movie is still bad... You know? It's the series that made it awesome. And it made it awesome around season 3 before it was just cool and good. ^~^
"She has no where to go but down" lol I want to see how they feel about the character now
"Right next to those annoying battle droids."
But... they were one of the many highlights of the show?
How long were they Oh No!!-ing at each other?
Battle droids were some of the best parts of the clone wars and prequels. Their dialogue and fuck ups managed to make me laugh probably once per episode.
Fast-forward to today, and people are still buzzing with excitement about Ahsoka making her live-action debut...
"Ironic"
-Emperor Palpatine