Untouched • S02E04 • TPN’s Angel Guide
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- Опубликовано: 4 янв 2020
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Sources and thanks:
Dissociative disorders
www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...
The Debatable Podcast
Episode 45 - To Shanshu in L.A.: Mere Smith Part 2
anchor.fm/thedebatablepodcast...
Script edit, some suggestions and an unfortunately awesome pun credit to defrostedrobot
Music Credits:
Opening Theme
Wil Hughes
www.wilhughes.com/
Outtro
"Favorite Secrets" by Waylon Thornton
/ waylonthornton
The Passion of the Nerd
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Passion of the Nerd reviews Untouched. From Angel, Season 2, Episode 4. Directed by Joss Whedon. Written by Mere Smith. Starring David Boreanaz as Angel. Charisma Carpenter as Cordelia Chase. Alexis Denisof as Wesley Wyndam-Pryce. And J. August Richards as Charles Gunn. Guest Starring Daisy McCrakin as Behtany Chaulk. And Julie Benz as Darla.
#angeltheseries #josswhedon #meresmith 
Развлечения
Fun fact: J. August Richards kept the hubcap axe.
Awesome!
"He didn't tell her NOT to hurt him."
And somehow, he just can't seem to care.
Lol. I see that perspective given the past. But I feel like, in that moment, he didn't HAVE to tell her not to hurt him. The rest of the episode did. The way he frames her power as a choice, a measure of control she can take back, telling her that it doesn't have to be something bad unless she lets it... Then Cordelia, saying that she made a decision, consciously or not, and urging her to control that moment, to disarm rather than kill... Personally, I feel like he didn't tell her not to hurt him, not because didn't care if she did, but rather because after all the work they'd done together the rest of the episode, he knew she wouldn't let him touch her... She wouldn't let him take that choice away from her again.
@@anniescornavacca1472 it's also possible Angel legitimately felt that it was her choice. And as the guide and the show keep telling us, we always have a choice. And it wasn't his to make.
God, I love the fact that Angel doesn't tell Bethany to spare her father. So often is violence against abusers seen as being "no better than they are," which is horrendously preachy, one-sided, and limiting to survivors who are still working through trauma. But Angel never judges. He only tells her to stop her own suffering in whatever way will traumatize her the least. In this, it happens to be scaring her father but still sparing him, showing she doesn't have to be afraid anymore, even if he's still alive; either way, he can't hurt her anymore.
I thought that was gonna go really Dexter-y for a second there before I finished reading.
I think it's important to understand, however, that Angel's reasons for not telling her to spare him is 100% framed as a character flaw when you take the rest of the season into consideration.
In "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" he abandoned an entire hotel of people to be consumed by a demon in retaliation to them hanging him, while under the demon's sway. And that's only one of numerous similar decisions he makes this season. He has a dark side aside from Angelus, and that is what this season really grapples with. I don't think he failed to tell her to spare her father out of a sense of 'not judging' her; I believe that he was telling her to do exactly what he would've done if he was in her shoes.
I will agree that I love the fact that Angel has this whole "if you hurt me or my friends, I will destroy you in the cruelest way I can think of" attitude, and I also believe that the whole "no better than they are" argument can seem tone deaf for some people who have had to put up with some serious trauma in their lives. But the show is rather clear on which decision the writers feel is the 'right' one, even if the characters can't (or won't) always live up to that standard.
I hate it when that cliche is used in general. "No don't kill the horrible, irredeemably evil killer, rapist, paedophile or whoever who'll go on doing those things until you kill them because you'll be no better than them." Most of the time it makes no sense and is just there so the writers don't have to permanently kill a villain off and can keep using them. You're only no better than evil people if you do what they do to innocent people. Not if you do it to them.
@@Xehanort10 I don't like it when sparing a terrible villain is framed as if you don't you're "no better" than them, but I do understand and appreciate when someone is spared because the hero has a moral code they believe in and choose to uphold that doesn't include killing the villain. I think when that plays out the message is less if you kill an abusive monster you are no better, but instead that when you don't kill them you are better. The hero is completely superior because they have morals they choose to keep.
It's how I see Buffy's treatment of Warren in season six. She doesn't believe she has the right to exercise her judgement against a human, even though she has the power to. It's not that she would be as bad as Warren if she chose to kill him after all the terrible things he'd done, to her and to others. The point is that by her very nature she is so far above him that she won't lower herself to kill him in retaliation for all that abuse.
@@Xehanort10 🎯
"Most *charismatic* member." I see what you did there ^^
What's REALLY funny is, her first boyfriend became a Carpenter......
Cordelia's straight talk with Bethany was my favorite part of the episode at the time (still is). It was fairly brave to have a hero character confront a victim of sexual abuse and point of out the damage their reactions can have on others when the previous decade+ had been spent focusing entirely on the direct victim, their needs, and convincing people that any way they expressed their trauma was valid. Hopefully no-one misinterprets what I mean here, I've gone over this a couple times trying to find better wording and can't. I'm not saying that all those things from the 90's weren't needed, they certainly were coming out of the 80's where Bethany's actions in Angel's room would have been "proof" she was fine and unaffected by the abuse. I'm just saying the show was brave to take the conversation to the next step in understanding how wide the damage can spread, and no longer treating the adult survivors as people with no agency, and letting us see the next stage of recovery.
I have grown to love that scene. What a tight rope walk it must've been to write it. But it's balanced and Charisma plays it perfectly. Calling Bethany out is ALSO meant to empower Bethany.
A way to self-abuse some times is to abuse and hurt others, specially ones we care about, so it is definitely a needed step towards recovery and self-love to bring awareness to what you're doing to others.
As a CSA survivor I loathe that scene, and the whole episode. I can't put my finger on why but I think part of it is the way it constructs survivors as perceptibly damaged (the weird sex vibe thing) and inherently damaging. It adds to the feelings of shame and stigma. I don't find it an empowering speech; I find it Othering.
I've received toxic compassion from culture and what I actually needed was someone like Cordelia to explain things clearly rather than putting everything on me and validating everything.
2:40 Angel's chameleon like acting ability has less to do with Angel's recent detective work and more to do the 200 years Angelus spent stalking his prey, getting to know them on a personal level, and talking his way into their homes. Just look at all the Angelus flashbacks in Amends. The humans he kills in Buffy's dreams have met him and believe he's human... right up until he eats them.
Edit: also look at his little speech at the end of the episode with Wife Beater Billy or whatever his name was. The bad guy's whole schtick was touching men and amplifying their latent rage. Angel was immune because Angelus was always an extremely high functioning psychopath. He doesn't have the latent rage Billy's power tapped into. Every emotion Angelus ever showed was a performance. Angelus is a mimic who can put on any persona he needs to worm his way into the lives of his prey. He went to those lengths because feeding on their blood was nothing more than a byproduct of what he was really stalking his victims for. To feed on their fear and anguish.
This is a brilliant analysis 👏👏 I hope Ian sees it and comments
@ 3:21
You could see that the building the lady visits is the same building in new girl.
It also adds another level to the shows in joke(new girl) that they live in bad part of town with no parking.
idk if this is right because i just noticed it right now.
Yess exactly 💯
Just realized that Oz was actually a lot more stoic than Angel
Yeah, but it makes sense. Oz is stoic despite being a werewolf while Angel is so because he's a vampire. Flashbacks to Liam make it seem that it really isn't his natural behaviour at all. Just something he uses to control his darker side.
Yeah tbh trauma shapes a lot of Angel's outward characteristics. Once you see him start to open up and prioritize his connections over simple penance, you see that's he's actually really playful and earnest. Like a puppy.
Seth Green is an extremely gifted and talented actor/producer/director. Yes. in both Angel and Buffy he was very stoic.
That's because on Buffy: Oz was a stoic, Angel was a plank of wood. He got a personality at the same time he got his own show
I think the point of Angel not telling Bethany what to do was actually the beauty of the entire episode and the arc that Angel took as a character within it. By not telling Bethany what to do OR what not to do, Angel was assisting her in regaining her power.
Yes, this! He trusted her to make the right decision for herself. What SHE needed.
I think I have an idea for why Angel just said "You have the power, finish it."
Real-life sufferers of abuse (esp as a child) have a tendency to develop high levels of emotional reactivity. This leads them to seek control of the situation going on around them as a coping mechanism. This takes various forms depending on other influences and events in their lives. Perfectionism, OC traits, and yes dissociation like Bethany. Typically the longer the abuse the more extreme the consequences.
Bethany was asserting her sexuality to Angel, because she assumed that as a man he would inevitably try and assert his. She decided to take control of the situation by taking the initiative. The anxiety caused by not being in control, being vulnerable to a man who just "saved" her and who she now "owes" was essentially compelling her to try and alleviate the anxiety by taking control and sleeping with Angel.
Compulsions caused by trauma are often very intricate and sometimes make very little sense to an outside observer This means that partners, friends and family are going to eventually have to accept these emotional outbursts, dissociations and flashbacks or abandon the relationship. Many people do not feel equipped to deal with it and bail. Trust issues create more trust issues.
If she can control of herself and her surroundings she can do anything, but that desire for control compells her to unhealthy behaviour because she inherently believes she cannot be trusted with power, that she is untrustworthy.
When Angel says "you have the power, finish it" and nothing else he is doing two things. He is giving her the two things that she needs to hear and understand deeply for her to live free from her fears.
He is giving her control. But he is also giving her his trust. Trusting her with the life of her abuser to kill or not as she wishes, is a sign from Angel (and the moral centre of the show) that Bethany is a good person, not a murderer. Proving her self hating thoughts incorrect.
The only way Bethany could know for sure that she was a good person, was to have the chance to kill but not take it. This is the first step of her recovery.
When I watched that scene in Angel's bedroom for the first time, I was reminded of what my old social work professor said about young women he worked with who had been sexually abused. He said that some girls were almost expecting male case workers to try and take advantage of them, like it was the norm. He was speaking from his own experience, of course. I don't know if there are any studies on this subject, but I found that scene all the more heartbreaking because of it.
Angel: Looks like you're gonna have to find someone else's brain to play with, huh?
Lilah: Yeah we have someone in mind.
*Fast forward to That Vision Thing in season 3*
or the fact that Angel was having his mind messed with in the same episode ....
Darla: There's nothing so lovely as dreams. Everything's in them. Everything hidden. Open those chambers and you can truly understand someone and control them.
Lilah: And what's hidden in Angel's secret chambers?
Darla: Horrors.
Barry Manilow
What i love most is that she says it with a smile
Lilah: And what's hidden in Angel's secret chambers?
Darla: Horrors.
*clip of angel singing mandy*
Darla. Lovely young lady. Still doing good work. Underrated. She does a great job as a vampire.
This is definitely one of the greats.
I do think it was a mistake not to keep Bethany around however. I think she was one of the one off characters you could've kept around and helped grow the show more. One of the rare times the show missed an opportunity.
You're right, Gunn and Cordy have great potential
Even if it wasn't going to be romantically shipped, they should have had more scenes together. They had good chemistry. But then again Cordy/Charisma had chemistry with most everyone...
I really love analysis of Angel that talks about him as a victim; that "she's a victim" "so were we, once upon a time" is one of my favourite exchanges in the whole Buffyverse. That never-ending cycle of abuse ...
Darla had a life being abused by men and then being 'taken' by a new 'father figure' who was incapable of selfless love. Then she enacted that on Angel, and as Angel is rebirthed from his grave and looks to Darla for approval, we see how Darla has replaced his dad as a parental figure he answers to. Then Angel destroys Drusilla, tearing away her familial connections, and, well, the fact she calls him "daddy" isn't subtle. Drusilla to Spike, where Spike has to kill his mother to fully satisfy Drusilla ...
Angel longs for, in some part, the freedom of being soulless and unburdened by trauma, either his or that which he doles out; like Bethany, who wants to dissociate away from her trauma and not control how she lashes out. When the person who made you, the person whose blood you share, is capable of abusing you, then it can follow a belief that you deserved that abuse because you are Bad as they were Bad.
And all that ties into the fate vs. choice debate, in spirit of nature vs. nurture, and if we can act against the generational trauma & baggage we carry.
He didn't tell her... Not to hurt him.
Damn!
That sentence fucked me up when he said it.
@@sterlingross919 you and me both!
i wonder what would have been the fall out if she chose differently?
As a survivor of childhood abuse- I felt this in my soul. Thank you for your analysis.
Man this episode is much darker than I remember now
Dearest Ian:
I'm not sure what to say here. You leave me in tears many times because of your beautiful poetry in describing people and events. And I've seen Angel, and this episode, many times. It's always very painful for me but, like Bethany, I've learned to purposefully dissociate. A skill I learned at age 6 or 7. I share so much in common with this character it's uncanny yet I think in dissociating, I didn't let it all in. I knew exactly what that attic scene meant immediately.
I'm almost 50 yrs old and I was physically, mentally, and sexually abused by my father (by the way, most girls/women who were sexually assaulted as children tend to behave out of the norm sexually. some repress, some act very overtly). Then when I was 17, I married a sociopath who terrorized me and did horrible things including spousal rape. All the King's horses and men will never be able to put my mental health back together again. I've been in counseling for over 10 yrs. I live with many physical illnesses, disorders, and daily severe pain which all began when I was 18.
I don't know if some of these physical issues go back to all that trauma but it's possible. Abuse at any level is horrific but especially when perpetrated against a child. Despite my struggle with mental health issues, after a lifetime of work, I have discovered and accepted myself for who I am. I have found self-esteem, self-respect, and self love. And I have gained much wisdom and continue to do so, even through watching your guides and listening to you. And I continue to learn and grow personally because of my conscious decision to continue to look at who I am, unapologetically, and work daily on making deliberate change. Also, a long-time phrase of mine has been "We each make our own choices and we live individually with the joys and successes and the pain and consequences of them." -- Choice. =)
Ian, your words mean so much to so many people and no less so for me. I was in tears halfway through this episode with remembered pain and emotion that I keep bottled up. But I enjoyed the guide and am so grateful that you're speaking to this issue. I was a bit hurt after watching your Beauty and the Beasts guide because of your seeming nonchalant view on the events. I know I'm not unbiased and I understand that you were coming at it from a different angle than I was, but some things you said in it were still upsetting. I'm so glad that you've done this episode justice. Thank you!
P.S. - In the way you analyzed this episode, it made me think of future events in a way I hadn't before. You describing Darla's actions as sexual assault, we as women often forget about men who are violated, paints a very different picture for me of the events leading to "And somehow I just can't seem to care." There are consequences to sexual assault no matter the gender of the person who was assaulted because we all have a psyche that has to try to deal with those things.
I genuinely believed I was the only person who often found themselves in tears with Ian's reviews.
And yes, this one was one of them.
I also shed a few tears with his video analysis...analysises (analysii?)of the Whedonverse this video brought up some unresolved childhood trauma for me too thank you for sharing ❤
@@carlaquill2990 🤔 Reminds me of the Buffy episode where she's talking to Warren and he struggles with the plural for the word nemesis. The plural for that is the same for analysis. Nemeses and analyses, in both the 'es' on the end is pronounced like 'eez'. 🙃
Thank you both for sharing your feelings and pain. It's not an easy thing to do. 🤗💜
Thank you for sharing something so personal. You are an truly an incredible human being. Never forget that.
All of you are incredibly kind. Thank you so much. 💕
I never considered that what Darla did to Angel in his dream state was a violation, and I'm ashamed of it.
You've made me see this episode with new eyes - as always bringing in a depth and richness.
At the end - are you suggesting we are seeing hints of Dark Angel to come? (As opposed to Angelus )
And, lastly, on a more frivolous note: yaaaaaaaas! Cordy and Gunn! I ship it. Why did the writers abandon such a promising coupling? I think they could have been so good for and with each other.
Dark Angel......Great show. Jessica Alba at her absolute best. A few famous actors came out of that show.
Every time I think, "he's done his best analysis" you take a favorite episode and do better. On Gunn/Cordy now I can never watch this show without "Fair Cordelia" meaning something I now want.
@5:23 Anyone who takes that icky sounding offer should rethink their life choice.
Cordelia, everything she said I loved and reminded me of the world of sexual assault I've been exposed to. It's so easy to go from victim to predator. Part of it is a false sense of guilt. To take your power back and accept choices your making now while accepting what you can't control together can literally save you from spreading the pain to yourself amd others and even help you heal it.
Okay maybe I related a little too much. Yes it does All of it justice. Definitely know dissociation as well and it can be overcome but not always so easily. I did a therapy technique to find the initial thought and image before blacking out and spent years dealing with it. But got there.
Too many treat us as victims so much that it's crippling, yes we were victims once, but we can be survivers if just given the tools.
Darla's abuse actually aided in my issues as I was not awake for my abuse either. Screaming helped a lot, because now I can Chose to. And I appreciate the didn't tell her not to hurt him too.
That was a lot publicly but not my name anyways and it felt good, as did the episode and this guide.
Ah, what a good omen to see that Gaiman and Pratchett had an influence. I could say this a million times and still feel the need to say it again: I LOVE your analysis. There are times you put my thoughts into eloquently spoken words and there are times you make me want to dig a little deeper. (Plus, you inspire countless numbers of rewatching of Buffy, Angel, and now Firefly.)
So, thanks.
I love that you point out that Angel's turn to Angelus was prompted by the inner peace of being with the woman he loves /after/ engaging in intimacy, rather than the sex itself. One of the things that consistently bothers me when people try to analyze the Buffyverse is that they often seem to fall into this "Sex makes Angel evil" trap which never felt accurate to me. If so, he would've turned at the point of climax. Not waking up afterwards, cuddled up to Buffy as she slept. To be fair, the characters on the show also seem to fall into this trap, but they're flawed characters making flawed assumptions, not an all-knowing body who can speak to the truth of the matter.
Man, I can't tell you how badly I wished Bethany had returned in later episodes. If only once or twice, just to see what is happening with the character. And knowing the tenor and tendencies of the show, she probably would be both in a better place but still have plenty of work ahead of her, which could have been fertile ground for some really good episodes.
Agreed. She just disappeared. A being that powerful. Wow. I wonder what her life evolved into.
The subject of consent is more prevalent in Angel than it is in Buffy, I think. Possession of Angel and Cordelia to perform a sexual act, the mind manipulation of Angel and Eve to perform a sexual act, the possession of Cordelia's body to birth Jasmine, and, of course, Darla drugging Angel.
And those are the ones I remember, who knows how many other examples are there
Just remembered that Cordelia was impregnated by demon spawn twice before Jasmine.
'carries' out the trash? nice one!
I decided that the theatricality Angel shows more and more on his own show was always a part of his personality, but that he repressed it on Buffy because he associated with Angeles.
This episode was moving when I first watched it. After I escaped my violent ex husband it became powerful. I remember Kate saying to Angel in I fall to Pieces about getting Melissa to get mad. It wasn't about protecting her but getting her to stop giving him power. Same thing in this episode.
Isn't Mr. Pointy Kendra's iconic weapon?
Yes! Buffy has the other darker brown stake that you can buy a replica of. It's used in many, many episodes in the early seasons. You could also say her iconic weapon is the scythe!
Ahhhhh i've never clicked so fast in my life!
This is a wonderful analysis, top to bottom. Such an important epsiode to me personally, and i loved how you took the time to investigate bethany's dissociations and complex trauma. As well as how it relates to how darla is violating angel.
PS your line "carries out the trash" absolutely sent me
Best comment so far as I've seen.
Angel S2 is a weird one for me: I remember the middle and the end and the rest just kind of fuzzes together, but I still consider it among my favorites of the series. And then the TPN guide comes along to give me a reason to remember how great all the other episodes are
I always watch this episode on rewatches of the show and I really love it every time I see it! At first I couldn't put my finger on why, but I think that you hit the nail on the head when you talk about focusing on Bethany as a whole person instead of just as a victim. I also like that Cordy recognized the danger of Angel percieving her as just a damsel and almost felt the need to warn him about it - because, like you said, seeing her as anything other than herself would be a mistake. Great analysis! Can't wait to see what's next!
I always wished that Bethany could have become a part of the Angel gang. I would have liked to watch more episodes with her learning to control and use her powers in positive ways as well as working through her past and growing stronger as a person among new friends. I remember feeling disappointed when she was only there for one episode.
Thank you, I was worried you weren't doing any more of these.
I have been a long time buffy and angel fan, but you have made me see these shows and appreciate them for so much more than I ever had before.
That little, pardon my pretentiousness, flourish of a cliffhanger compared to how you usually wrap episodes up with a bow.
Thank you. I grew up watching Angel and Buffy. I have tried to explain why Angel was so much more than a monster of the week show but was never able to articulate the the range of emotions nor the subject matter in the (sometimes not so subtle) underlying themes. It is truly an art, the way you see beyond the words and pictures to add colour to what most people believe is a black and white monster tv show. You have a gift. Thank you for sharing.
This episode has always been hard for me. Not only does it focus on triggering subject matter, but my name is also Bethany. That said, it's done in such a real and honest way that I found strength in it, not weakness. I found validation. Every time I watch this episode, I walk away feeling raw but empowered. Joss did a good job tackling such a hard subject. And I'm thankful every time that he had the courage to do it.
10:00 The parallels with
Faith are even more telling if you consider that Faith was most likey _sexually abused_ a lot as a child, there are clues that were never developed in the series [perhaps they were being planted for the Faith series that never was].
The most obvious clue was Faith's dissociative episode while she was in Buffy's body and having sex with Riley - her behaviour beforehand was a bit similar to Bethany's in that "you want to have fun _doing things to_ and using me" attitude. And her complete freak out and confusion when Riley said "I love you" was a very obvious tell. She even messed up her act by referring to Buffy as "her" and not herself. The obvious conclusion is that _"I love you"_ is a trigger phrase and someone (most likely her stepfather) would say that while sexually abusing her as a child. She was very vulnerable as a child due to her mother's alcoholism and neglect.
And Faith's sexuality and mercenary attitude to sex are such textbook examples of the affects of childhood sexual abuse that Joss probably consulted the textbooks when developing her character (she's also a poster child for Borderline Personality Disorder), he may have had the books still lying around for Bethany.
In a way Bethany and Faith are slightly different but still similar outcomes of a similar starting point, it's just Faith embraces her *sexuality as a weapon,* while Bethany *endures it.*
But what is the most interestingly similarity is how they both embrace the opportunity for and are comforted and reassured by affection divorced from and _excluding_ sexual contact.
That is when the man who's being nice to them and "parental" turns down a explicit offer of sex, they suddenly feel safe with them.
In Bethany's case it was of course Angel, and later for Faith it was also Angel (after earlier considering Angel a possiblity and Buffy her rival).
But for Faith earlier on it was the Mayor. When she hugged him and called him her "sugar daddy" he immediately scolded her and told her he didn't want her sexually - she brightened up so much at that and it was the beginning of their family bond, they truly did love each other. And both Wesley and Giles failed that test, Giles by being flattered when Faith made a come on to him at first meeting, if he had right there corrected her and treated her like Buffy (or just his Ward) she may well have felt more secure and less defensive. It was how the Mayor truly earned her loyalty.
Both Bethany and Faith may have also done survival sex, and in Faith's case actual sex work (the ease of suggesting a sugar daddy arrangement, the fact that she had been a 12 year old girl living on the streets, her nightclub recruitment meeting with Lila had undertones of _gay for pay_ ((the directors notes from _FOX_ instructed them to make sure Eliza didn't play that up)) and lots of casual comments throughout her story).
It would have been interesting if Bethany and Faith had met (I'm sure there's fanfic, maybe even some that _doesn't_ have sapphic overtones). A wild coincidence but maybe their paths had crossed before when both were still raw from damage. But what would've been poignant is if at a later date they had met and didn't know of each other's Angel connection (a bit like Angel and Anne/Lily/Chanterelle, who never knew each other's Buffy history, although Angel did scout the vampire wannabes club in _Lie to Me._ And Anne meeting Bethany or Faith could work as well).
If Faith hadn't gone to jail at the end of Sanctuary (and legal manoeuvring or even the Watchers calling in favours - it was her confession that got her convicted) she would've been there to bond with Bethany. And maybe meeting Bethany could've been a plot in a _"Faith the vampire Slayer"_ series.
Another connection, Lila tried to recruit them both as Wolfram Heart assassins. Bethany could have stayed for an episode or two, perhaps before finding her own mission or cause to follow. But she's too powerful to have around as a permanent team member, Bethany squashes bad guys or dangles them upside down, episode over.
In the end though, Faith may have had some influence on Bethany's path, _through Wesley._
After Faith's LA encounter (which changed him and started him on his darker journey, Faith may have well toughened him up as well) Wesley would have researched and pondered Faith's past and phycology. If only because she was in jail by choice and he knew she could break out any time the fancy took her - and that it could well have consequences for him.
It was Wesley's MO, he studied Angelus history extensively because he knew he might face him.
And there may well have been an element of guilt on Wesley's part, he was responsible for pushing her over the edge.
So he could have realised Faith showed all the symptoms of being sexually abused, and researched the subject, thus being able to diagnose Bethany.
He definitely knew how to manipulate Faith later on when facing Angelus, he had her number (a later season with just the two of them would've been dynamic, add Connor and you've got epic dysfunction).
So in a way Faith was training for Wesley to recognise Bethany's trauma.
Faith also hitchhiked, presumably, from Boston to Sunnydale. The possibilities of what might've happened to her along the way are unpleasant. And her "all men are beasts" view of men doesn't sound like something that'd come from a particularly happy place (intentional understatement).
Faith was without a doubt a really great character. Especially the scene when she is in prison and then breaks out. Buffy was the more fierce in an all out fight though.
I think Angel encouraged Bethany to use her power on her dad as a way to get her to see that she had the choice to use her power to kill or defend. Up until that moment, all Bethany could do was uncontrollably lashout.
I loved the character of Bethany, and for a once off character, Daisy McCrackin did a cracking job. I full expected her to become a series regular and was so disappointing we never saw her again. Her last scene, leaving Lila's with Angel completely sets her up to moving into the hotel. And how useful would she have been on the team!
This is a truly spectacular episode of television that doesn’t get talked about nearly enough. It’s in the top ten of the series for me.
He didn’t tell her not to hurt him. Okay... little role play here. You are Angel. For the last 100 years your life has been about violence in one form or another. You are looking for redemption, hard. To that end, you kill monsters . And find beings that look like monsters, aren’t. As well as some humans that are. You haven’t started picking that trash up on the street, but you can appreciate that the world will be just a little bit cleaner without them in it.
Hmm, just noticed the parallels between Bethany and S6 Buffy, what with the depression and dissociative disorders. Buffy using Spike to deliberately dissociate herself, like Bethany when she sleeps with men. Thanks Ian. I've never realised that connection before.
Jeez, you are like a therapist ... I watch these annually. it's my 3rd year.
This is therapy.
Thanks bud.
The page refreshed itself and therefore erased my comment. My loose summary of it is that I love this episode and I love the parallels between Angel, Bethany, and Faith.
Beautiful Ian, as always. I find when I watch this episode, I am so taken with Bethany, and the memory of the Bethanys that I have known, that I have never thought about the parallels with Angel. But of course, you are right, what Darla is doing is a violation. More than that, the really dark parallel is that Darla is, in a very real way, Angel's mother. She made him, and in Prodigal we saw her take possession of his parental issues. It's so very wrong, on so many levels.
Another thought is I think this truly shows how utterly despicable W&H and Lilah are; to retraumatize an abuse victim and to do so while pretending to be her friend, it's beyond the pale, bring on the wine cellar.
I have a hard time with this episode. For the most part I think it does justice to her trauma and the weight of the topic. But every time I watch it I am actively horrified by two things. One: Wesley shamelessly triggered a woman with PTSD, without discussing his idea with the team, and afterwards acted like his own childhood abuse is equivalent to her childhood sexual abuse and makes his choice appropriate. Being triggered is actively traumatic. More than people realize. There are a million better ways to assess this situation.
And Two: Cordelia confronting and shaming Bethany about killing the men. Cordelia, champion of women, suggesting Bethany should have just floated the assailants away was so bizarre and OOC for me. Bethany defended herself from assault. She had every right to do everything in her power to escape. She was attacked and triggered and traumatized. As someone with PTSD myself, it’s not something you have much control over how you react. With many years of therapy I have a bit more control, but it used to be pretty unpredictable whether I’d react violently, or have a panic attack, or freeze up when something triggered me.
I understand Cordelia being protective of her friends, she always is, but framing it the way it was made it seem as though she believed the men didn’t deserve to be harmed as much as they were for attacking her. Which puts an almost victim-blaming spin on the whole situation, like she shouldn’t have defended herself, or should only do up to XY or Z because otherwise Bethany is worse than they are, or her crime is worse than theirs is. And that gets into some iffy territory. Especially with an entire episode discussing sexual abuse. And having Cordelia say she understood what it was like for Bethany, while I understood what it was meant to show for Cordelia’s character arc, felt dismissive toward Bethany, and like a way for Cordelia (or the writers) to tell Bethany (and the audience) that she overreacted.
Agreed. Wesley _maybe_ had an excuse of needing to get to the bottom of the issue fast. But Cordelia's attitude was a little bit outrageous.
Wesley is absolutely horrible at dealing with mentally ill and traumatized women 🤣
My dude, this uploaded right as i was looking around and wishing i had something new of yours to watch. Thank you for amazing timing. And quality
I love the Angel and Buffy Guides!
Angel didn't tell Bethany to hurt her father.
The power Angel was referring to wasn't the telekinesis, it was her new found understanding that she is in control. "Don't let them touch you". The result of her using that power was - not killing her father.
I love how the obviously fake CGI glass explosion STILL blows the Council explosion seen in Buffy's Never Leave Me. Still, Kinda amazing to see how, aside from some storytelling choices, the effects REALLY show their age lol
Krishna Nadoli
Effects done in night/dark scenes tend to hold up over ones in daylight.
This remains one of my favorite channels. So good.
The PTBs sending CC the vision? Maybe just the one particular PTB...?
I'm so amazed by how good your reviews are getting that I'm speechless!!
I only can add: Go Cordy!! I mean her scene with Bethany, I just love it!
Thank you sooo much, Ian!! :D
Its weird how I don’t remember this episode.Really good video I’ll have to rewatch this one
It tends to get lost within the 'haunted by Darla' arc that dominates the first half of the season.
A main theme of this episode is also Control. Control linked to agency, choice, action. Abusive control, manipulation to control someone else, manipulation to remain in control of yourself, etc. All of it ties back to 'control' focusing around Bethany, and themes attached from Bethany to every other character concerning how each character has/does not have, or is affected by 'control' in their life.
Angel throughout the episode learns to stop trying to control Bethany [treating her like a damsel needing rescue], and slowly learns how to, through his actions, give her more control over her own life. Getting her to make her own choices for herself and not because of the control of another. The end where Angel does not tell her 'Don't hurt him," is him letting go and giving HER the control [not him]. Him giving her the choice of action for herself and what she wants in HER life. Empowering her. Angel understands on several levels the importance of control [agency, choice, action]. "If nothing we do matters...then all that matters is what we do." What she did, in the end, meant everything.
"Choices..."
Throws laptop across the room. Stop being so damn brilliant. ❤
She’s an Icon, she’s a legend, and she is the moment
I also feel like Cordy's talk with Bethany is what made her spare her fathers life, like you said, Angel said finish it, which could imply killing her father, and I think she possibly might have intended that when she initially threw him out the window. But when Cordy talked to her after saying "don't bone my boss", she suggests that Bethany could have used her telekinesis in other ways that wouldn't have ended her attackers lives. Bethany also realises for the first time that she can control her power, which is something she's never considered before. It's possible she just threw him out the window as it was the first thing she could think of, and then remembering what Cordy had said to her earlier, halted him, not to save her father's life, but to save Bethany herself. Her realising she can control her telekinesis, I believe, also helps her realise that she doesn't have to be a victim anymore, which is empowering and something that deeply resonated with me personally.
sorry my wording is kinda clunky, hopefully that makes sense lol
Great episode, it hurts me tho that are 6 episodes away from one of my favorite moments.
I cried so hard the first time I watched this episode and it still brings tears to my eyes I love how they made her feel so real so human it broke my heart
I vaguely remember this episode as being where I started being fascinated by Lilah. To me, anyway, she's such a compelling bad guy.
“Hunty, killy, sexy things” lol.
I love the parallels you drew between Bethany and Faith. In the guides for Buffy season 3, you talked about how, had we seen more of Faith and understood her better, her betrayal would have made more sense and had more of an emotional impact; the first few times I watched the series I had no specific interest in Faith- not until I began to understand her motives on why she did the things she did. Here in Untouched, you can see exactly why Bethany has developed these powers and the unhealthy coping mechanisms along with them, unlike Faith, where here you explain exactly that- that you only saw the consequences of what happened to Faith, not what actually happened. When I first saw this episode, I didn’t think much of it, not until watching this guide. But the moment on the bed is really devastating. A lot of people don’t realize how sexual abuse can cause a person to become hypersexual themselves- something I also believe is the root of Faith’s promiscuity, though there’s not much evidence to prove that (except the near assault on Xander in Consequences- that seemed textbook trauma reenactment to me). Anyway. I have been watching these guides for years and am only just commenting, but they really are 😘 and I can’t wait for more.
Lila Morgan is one of the loveliest "Monster" I've seen on a TV show. Angel is a highly underrated show. Season 5 was incredible. Angel's son Conner was a fiercely indestructible super being. This episode was fairly cool. You really need to binge watch the entire 5 seasons. The ending is picture perfect. If you have followed David Boreanez from his first appearance on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, then you can see how his acting skills flourished as time went on from that point.
Oh god. These guides are getting more and more recently posted. Noooooooo!!! Love the hard work Ian.
This episode definitely hit some sore spots in me too. I'm actually a recovering sex addict because I used sex as a way to re-traumatize and essentially punish myself for the series of sexual abuse that kept happening to me. I also have a dissociative disorder. Although I'm much better now, watching this reminded me of my own past, and how I've dealt with my trauma, slowly gaining healthy boundaries, compassion for myself, and a connection with my body. And yeah, that visual image of flinging the abuser out the window is something I've many times imagined would heal my wounds somehow. But then the more I recover, the less I care about those people altogether, and just wanna move on with my life.
Also, that axe is pice of art!
I love how the editing evolved over the years for these guides. You've mastered the form, I'd say. Making the most out of the strong written essay parts and supporting them with clever and effective editing. Like when describing Bethany's issues and suddenly switching to Faith footage from Five by Five(?) without verbally addressing it. Or the non-spoiler nod to Wesley's daddy issues with that single shot cutaway to Lineage so those who have seen it instantly "know."
Huge thumbs up. Absolutely love your work here.
This season of Angel is soooooooooooo goooooooooooooood
Season 2 is fantastic. I can't wait for the Darla stuff!
Ooh, Mere Smith! Next to Espenson she's my favourite non-Whedon Buffyverse writer. It's in large part due to her writing my favourite Angel episode, yes, that being Birthday, but I do also love her writing style, and if you look at her writing credits, that's a hell of a portfolio.
things i didn't expect to see in my deep angel video: the archangel fucking gabriel
more good omens parallels plz my two favorite things together makes my day
also it'd be hella interesting to see
Why don't I remember watching this episode? *checks the episodes that are happening in Buffy and what's to come in Angel*
Oh. Well, then.
@The Reverse Season 5 of Angel is imo better than season 2, but Season 2 is absolutely tied if anything. Though Season 4 has to be one of the worst of the entire buffyverse
@@honeyham6788 ironically I watched season 4 of Angel the fastest, over weekend in highschool
@The Reverse Season 4 is my favorite season of Angel. I'm hopeful that Ian's analysis will help justify why.
A true binge watcher watches all episodes and generally forgets a lot. I always see fresh new stuff in the really great shows. I am a binge watcher to the core!
@14:15 I'm so very glad you pointed this out. It's such a struggle to get society to realize that men can be victims of abuse.
Love these brilliant videos.
You do some amazing work. Thank you.
Excellent analysis
Amazing.Thank you!
Great review as always. Loved it. Thanks for sharing
Great video man keep it up
This was so well done! So happy to be a subscriber.
Fantastic job with this, as always. Really looking forward to seeing the videos for the rest of the episodes in this season. :D
This is one of my favorite episodes of Angel.
my favorite channel on youtube. Keep up the excellent work!
Great analysis, Ian!
Fantastic video. You analysis of these episodes is so in-depth and well articulated. Always such an interesting watch.
Loving this new series I've come upon here.
Congratulations! You've just gained another subscriber, my dude. ^_^
Again, thanks for these fantastic videos! Your video on this episode hit me harder than when I saw the episode itself when I was younger, now having experienced a phase of anxiety and abuse. It's great to see a good portrayal of it brought to light. Think Angel is due for a rewatch!
Always so happy to see a new episode from you!!!
And as a victim of abuse I found the episode really good but also your review made with respect and understanding on such a complex topic, thanks ❤️🙏🏼
Wish you didn’t have to upload things when it’s the middle of the night here Ian!
Glad to see more content mate, for real tho, thanks bud
God, I have missed this! ❤️
Cordy is an icon and I love her in this episode so much. Your analysis of this episode made it even better for me, can't say enough how much I love your videos. I'm eagerly waiting for the next.
This episode is so important
While at times I think some of your observations are a bit out there (not this episode though, you nailed this) everyone of them makes me re-think episodes. That means you are doing a great job. Well done.
"carries out the trash."
... You sir, are a genius.
This is one of my favourite episodes
Fiiiiiiiiiiiinally.
You don't understand how often i check my subs for new B&A reviews, it's been a cold month or few haha
Welcome back to it, hope you had a great xmas break :)
To me, this episode felt like partially a standalone, but at the same time, carries parts of the main series and foreshadows importance of Angel's crew and their role in his life.
I'm on RUclips since 2006. This is the first channel where I subscribed, ringed the bell, and liked + fully watched every video in the playlist
So those of us that have seen all the episodes know the wine cellar scene is coming up but I don't think that you need to look at this as the start of Angel's descent into darkness when he doesn't tell Bethany not to hurt her father. You can hold a higher standard for yourself than you do for others. You can understand, even encourage an action without being willing to do the action yourself in the same situation. This was Bethany's moment, she had to make the choice. She made the best choice, but she had all the power in that moment. Angel's statement was to encourage her to use her power. To tell her how to use her power diminishes the moment.
I was never felt Angel's use of fake personas to get what he wanted was out of character because of the times he used it as Angelus in season 2, when he would pretend to be just some dude who knows Buffy ("Phases," "Go Fish") or to screw with people ("Innocence," "Passion," "Becoming" ). "The Lord will use you and smite you down. He's like that."
Same. I think it is because a lot of the fan base tends to view Angel as like an immortal Liam when in reality he is actually just Angelus with Liam's soul