Dear Boy • S02E05 • TPN’s Angel Guide
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2020
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Sources, links, and thanks:
All of the Buffy Angel Flashbacks put in order
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Lani, who got my mind rolling on the essence stuff and helped me shake off some general funktitude:
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Chipperish Podcasts
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Vertigo (1958)
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Directed Alfred Hitchcock
Music Credits:
Opening Theme
Wil Hughes
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Outtro
"Favorite Secrets" by Waylon Thornton
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Passion of the Nerd reviews Dear Boy. From Angel, Season 2, Episode 5. Directed by David Greenwalt. Written by David Greenwalt. Starring David Boreanaz as Angel. Charisma Carpenter as Cordelia Chase. Alexis Denisof as Wesley Wyndam-Pryce. And J. August Richards as Charles Gunn. Guest Julie Benz as Darla.
#angeltheseries #josswhedon #davidgreenwalt #davidboreanaz 
Развлечения
Had the cold while recording this so apologies if the audio sounds off.
Next Up:
Saturday Patreon Hangout
Monday Podcast
Family S05E06 Buffy Guide
Shindig S01E04 Firefly Guide
Guise Will Be Guise S02E06 Angel Guide
Honestly Ian relax. I have a bit of a cough doing my Star Wars stuff - just push on. Whatever you do will never be perfect. I will say though that you do have a great speaking voice - so it will probably add some flavor to the mix. PS FINALLY! I didn't mind the other vids but wow finally we're getting prime Angel and am pumped with how you will approach it.
Another point supporting Darla’s shittiness in spite of her soul is, I think, that she was a vampire like...four times as long as Angel was when he was re-ensouled? We learn just two episodes from now that Darla isn’t her real name and she doesn’t remember what it even was. Being a monster is all she REALLY knows which I imagine makes it a bit easier to repress those feelings
There’s also stuff we do learn about her human life and how the world treated her that would explain to me a bit why she’d be more self serving and might have buried her conscience even then
She was a prostitute for a long time before dying from its consequences. Prostitution kills the soul before death. By the time she was a vampire she was already dead
The world is full of people that met their destiny on the road they took to avoid it.
I love this!
!
Never thought of that
Very profound and possibly true!
This episode proved why I enjoyed Julie Benz performance more in Angel then in Buffy.
Julie was in B,tVS when they were still trying to figure things out, but we did still have "Becoming" for her to work with. But yes, "Angel" did give Darla much more to sink her teeth into, as it were.
@@JohnZ117 and gave her a lil redemption too
Even though we knew in story that it was an act, her 911 call was so harrowing that it was hard not to believe it.
The one thing about the whole "God doesn't want you - but I still do" line that I was hoping you'd try and unpack, was how it's a reference to an earlier line, regarding Buffy: Angel tells Darla that she wouldn't understand why he felt happiness with Buffy, but not with her, and Darla says "I understand, alright - a guy gets a taste of something fresh and he thinks he's touching God."
A couple minutes later, Angel is forced to 'touch God' again (via the cross), is burnt by it, and Darla gives that wonderful line about 'God' (in this context, Buffy) not wanting him.
So excited to see the rest of your videos on this season. This whole Darla arc is probably my favorite storyline for this show. :D
Well said! So much to unpack from this arc and that's why I wholeheartedly agree, it is the best one in the show
Love this!
"God doesn't want you... but I still do... "
If that's cheese, it's some pretty fine cheese...
... like gouda, or blue cheese, or jalapeno havarti...
I wouldn't say the moment with Kate makes her look stupid. To me it emphasizes how she's been overworking herself. She has full knowledge of this rule, she's good at her job, she's smart, she knows how to do her research even when it comes to the mystical world she learned about in season 1 of angel but she hasn't been letting herself sleep. She's obsessed with vampires and when she's listening to the scanner for days on end she finally hears something about the one vampire she really has it out for (Even if it's not a justified position) she's willing to act without fully processing all the evidence. She's tired, she's grieving, she's unhappy and the person who she sees as responsible is now under investigation so she acted immediately.
Darla had a much harsher life than Liam and William. To succeed as a sex worker in the American colonies, I am sure she must have taught herself to be hard, and I bet she experienced much of the extent of human evil before she died. I think that is why it takes longer for her soul to have an affect and why it is Angel's unconditional love that triggers it. As she says, nobody has ever cared that much about her as Angel does as he tries to save her.
I'm sure she also got really good at things like burying her own feelings, manipulating others, and telling people what they want to hear. When the Master came to sire her we learn that she was kind of bitter and angry about life and didn't believe in any kind of religion or deity. She just always did what she had to in order to keep going. So yeah, I imagine human Darla and vampire Darla were very similar. Then experiencing someone, Angel, truly caring for her...that was probably the first time she ever experienced that.
I'd like to add that when Angel(us) and Spike were resouled they had demons inside of them who may have been torturing them with memories the good old days.
@@razycrandomgirl I don't think that matters in this instance. Darla tortures and murders the actor, so she doesn't have to be part demon to feel the pull towards evil.
@@moonlogic1986 I just meant the guilt part, not being more or less inclined towards evil. But I'm not sure if the demon has influence while the soul is present. I know Angelus is trapped inside Angel ... but I guess he can't even whisper to him like the demon in 'I've Got You Under My Skin'.
@@razycrandomgirl It's only when they take that magic heroin that they become two different personas that can talk to each other. Otherwise, they are one body and one head, so they can't speak to each other. Angel is not Gollum.
The disbelief wrt alien abductions is even funnier when you remember that only a few episodes later on Buffy they reveal that (demonic) aliens do in fact exist.
A problematic episode for me, as it's a great show with an antagonist just too gross for me to watch
Later, in the canon comics continuations, Spike lives on a spaceship with some alien bug people for awhile
I remember reading that online! I have *got* to get my hands on these comics lmao
A killer snot monster from outer space. 🤣🤣🤣
I always love when we get more info on The Whirlwind. A deep dive into "Where they started" and "Why they ended up there."
They could honestly have their own Netflix series with how much backstory is packed in there.
Man I love that fan term for the fangtastic 4
@@The810kid It's not a fan term; it's in the show. In, I want to say Darla?, where Angel is begging Darla to take him back after being ensouled. He says "we could have the whirlwind back"
Edit: Okay, that wasn't the scene I was thinking of, but it's somewhere. I wish Ian had actually put that chronological video in the description
I always figured original human Darla was hardened and carried a lack of emotion anyway probably from a hard life due to her line of work and the time period. She likely had to put up a massive wall to survive that lifestyle. Her response to the master on her death bed kind of gave that vibe.
So I always assumed her newly human self reflected that same hardened and hollow spirit of her former self combined with the memories of what she knew best, she was probably able to push the horrors of what she had done off for so long with that do what you must to survive mentality that she always had. Once she was shown and felt a person showing true compassion and care towards her from Angel her defensive wall started to soften and crumble pretty quickly.
And to give her character some credit. We don't see if she had any bouts of depression or remorse in the timeline from resurrection to rendezvous with Angel that we as viewers weren't prevy to. She was in a ferral state and the end of season 1. She had advantages that rensouled Angelus did not. A team of highly skilled doctors and other assests as well as it having the hunger associated with vampires need for blood. She could be around someone and not smell Outback steakhouse which is what Angel resouled dealt with and surrendered for a time to solitude. WWH could've been giving her anti depressants and other drugs. Opiates for me Didn't just kill bodily pain, but emotional pain to.
I remember an episode though where she has been self harming so she did feel guilt and she couldn’t stand it she felt like that I’m sure of it lol
That moment does make Kate look a bit dim, but I love what it does for Gunn appearing perceptive and smart.
Darla's lack of conscience is important. I've said it a bunch, but I'm gonna keep on saying it. People forget that Angel's soul does not in any way COMPEL him to be good. And there are many terrible people who have a conscience. Angel felt the weight of all the evil he'd done and felt bad about it because he's a fundamentally good person. He feels guilt because that's who he is. Darla's lack of such a reaction may not be a flaw in the soul canon. Perhaps even an ensouled Darla just doesn't give a damn.
Glad to hear you mention Oedipus. Looking toward the future, uh.....you're gonna have to do this for at LEAST 3 more characters. Fun! (yuck)
Yeeeeeeah. Why is Angel SO Oedipal?
@@PassionoftheNerd It's on *both* shows *at the same time* when you reach Buffy S7 and Angel S4. I want to know why, but I'm also terrified to ever get an answer.
@@keelahrose I hate to be a jerk - but NO - we do see visually she's a ton of research -so either she really is dumb or maybe her anger is too strong to make her think straight.
Opedial with a pint o' Avengers #200
@@YozoraHeart Don't forget it's something that's been cropping up ever since the 1st season of Buffy. I'm with you, part of me wants to know why, but I'm a little terrified to look too deep into it. 0o
Do remember that when Angel came back from the hell dimension in Buffy season 3, over 100 years had passed for him.
I think I know these shows, these characters, but you always show me their deeper meaning. I can only admire the amount of work each of these video must represent. Please know that your efforts are really appreciated.
Angel: What's the play, Darla? What kind of game are you running?
Darla: Just having a little fun. Been out of commission too long. You know how that feels.
Angel: Wolfram and Hart didn't bring you back for fun. The dreams, the frame job. What's the big plan, huh? Get me so screwed up I go bad again?
Darla: Kind of trite, I know. What do you expect? They're only human.
Angel: You better embrace that mediocrity, honey. You're talking about your own kind now.
Darla: But I'm still me. I remember everything, Angel. Everything we did. Everything we can do.
Angel: Yeah, but the bitch is...you have a soul now. Pretty soon those memories are gonna start eating away at you. No matter how hard you try you won't be able to escape the truth of what you were. Believe me, I know.
Darla: You can escape. You can escape it all. Remember what it's like to get lost, huh? Every thought a million miles away. Every part of your being alive. All you have to do is let me give you one little moment of happiness.
Angel: You took me places, showed me things, huh? You blew the top off my head...but you never made me happy.
Darla: But that cheerleader did? We were together 150 years. We shared everything. You're saying never?
Angel: You couldn't understand.
Darla: I understand, all right. Guy gets a taste of something fresh and he thinks he's touching God.
Angel: It wasn't about...
Darla: You bet your butt it was. There was a time in the early years when you would have said I was the definition of bliss. Buffy wasn't happiness. She was just new.
Angel: *Laughs* You're getting awfully bent over this, Darla. I, uh, couldn't feel that with you because I didn't have a soul but then I got a second chance just like you have.
Darla: What a poster child for soulfulness you are. This is no life, Angel. Before you got neutered you weren't just any Vampire. You were a legend. Nobody could keep up with you, not even me. You don't learn that kind of darkness. It's innate. It was in you before we ever met. You said you can smell me? Well, I can smell you too and my boy is still in there and he wants out.
The Oedipus references seem to especially become prevalent later in the season.
SPOILERS for later in the season:
While the main tragic figures of Oedipus are himself and his mother, little mention is given to the fates of their children who are their parents' half-siblings / grandchildren. Some sources say that two of the daughters followed Oedipus into exile, while the brothers fought and killed each other over rule of Thebes. When the sisters returned, one of the sisters buried her brother against her uncle's wishes (the brother was considered a traitor), leading to her being arrested, sentenced to death, and killing herself as her mother/grandmother had. Some versions also had her in an incestuous affair with her cousin, leading to a child who was killed by his uncle and ending in both her and her lover killing themselves (Greek myths are a trip).
Drusilla is basically the children of Oedipus and Jocasta; Innocents who were the absolute victims of their parents poor choices and are the only ones entirely blameless in the situation. Drusilla herself later comments on this, calling Darla "Grandmother" and preparing for Darla's re-death / rebirth as a vampire like she's expecting a baby.
Since all we can speak to is headcanons, mine was that Darla just didn't have a moral compass when she was a human the first go round. She didn't feel bad until someone *made* her feel bad.
Liam was dominated by a self-righteous, judgemental, puritanical Christian father whose voice rang in Angel's ears for centuries, resulting in Angelus' fixation on Christian iconography and the clergy. It's not enough to cause pain, he has to mock God. Get his attention. Carve crosses into his victims, drain priests right in the confessional. Nuns are his thing. *"Look, Dad, I'm touching all your stuff!"* It's only natural that the things he did specifically to defy the person who gave him his values would eventually power his self-loathing machine.
But we don't see anyone in Human!Darla's life, let alone an authority figure. It's a leap but I wouldn't be surprised to find out she did have any strong parental figures to give her a moral compass, which would mean the first person to get through to her about any kind of moral imperatives as a human was Angel. So it's ultimately Angel that powers *her* self-loathing machine.
Laota Surfs i’ve never thought of it that way. You just rock my world as much is the video has
Darla didn't have a moral compass when she was human? What are you basing this on? I'm curious :)
I love all the flashback scenes with Drusilla. Such a tragic character. I forgot how great this episode was. Thank you as always for your lovely guide.
"It's exactly like a Greek tragedy. There should only be Greeks."
Just what I needed, some light, easily digestible Buffyverse content before bedtime. Thanks, Ian!
*SPOILER ALERT!!!*
This is where everything starts to go wrong for Angel and co., when he starts to play Wolfram&Hart's game. It's only of late that I have come to understand that the bad things that happen in season 4 and 5 are inevitable from this moment on. It was all a long game (fallout from CC's real-life pregnancy aside). Angel sleeps with Darla, which leads to Connor, which leads to the rise of Jasmine, Angel and gang working for W&H, and finally to the death of Cordy, Fred and Wesley.
Everything starts to go to the dogs at the end of Dear Boy, and it all follows from our tragic hero's human weaknesses: impatience, rage, lack of intelligence (or maybe too much of it), and spinelessness. Angel reads big books but doesn't seem to learn from it. Maybe that's why he needs to learn the same lesson over and over again, seemingly incapable of internalizing the idea that the fight is worth fighting even though you never really win.
Maybe we're all like that: incapable of improving ourselves, fated to make the same mistakes again and again, leading to tragedy, disaster, destruction, and ultimately: death.
Ugh, you've done it again! Making me think about huge life stuff on a friday😩 That's it, I'm gonna get me something to smoke and rewatch something profoundly stupid. Something featuring Simon Pegg and Nick Frost should do the trick.
*SPOILER ALERT!!!*
Maybe it happened even earlier. In To Shanshu In L.A., when that maggotface demon (Jasmine much?) killed the PTB and helped bring Darla back. Or maybe in I Will Remember You when Angel chose to give up his humanity....
Now that I've come up with this idea I just can't stop theorizing about it, which means I have to either rewatch all of Angel again or have a lobotomy...🤔🤔🤔
Best to just rewatch the whole dang thing probably, going full cuckoo's nest just to get this out of my head might be overdoing it a little.😄
Remember Sahjan (?). Connor was meant to happen looong before even Liam was a thing
It's like greek prophecies/fates really. Things would have happened one way or another, and it's impossible to pinpoint any moment where one fate is locked in
...
Best not to think about it too much
@@r0w5tortion84
You're probably right, it's better I stop thinking about it. I'm already at the point where I'm questioning who actually brought Angel back from hell, and what Whistler's true intentions were when he sent Angel to help Buffy.👀
on the topic of Oedipus, in later episodes Dru repeatedly refers to sires as mummy, daddy, grandmother etc. so that goes with Darla being Angels vampire mother in the story
I always assumed that because Darla was a vampire for 400+ years, her sense of identity would be so interwoven with her demonic self that as a human she had no conscious to fall back into. Even later on it doesn't effect her the same way it does Angel and others we have seen re-ensouled.
I don't think it's entirely a time thing, because Spike deals with it better. He goes through the initial madness but picks up the pieces and goes on with his life. To be fair, unsouled Spike always had more humanity than Angelus so his abyss wasn't as deep to crawl out of.
I think human Darla was just a person with little conscience and a template for the demon that took her over in vampirism, in the same way that Liam was.
William was also a more morally upright person than Liam. He had a sick mother he cared for, and upon becoming a vampire was expected to care for Drusilla as well. It's not that far out of the question to assume this affected his baseline personality. All of his more horrible actions were meant to impress or measure up to Angel in her eyes, but at the end of the night (hah), he was supposed to take care of her. This trait transfers very easily to Spike post-chipping, particularly when he falls for Buffy. His priorities shift from taking care of Dru, to helping Buffy. This is in line with his programming, so to speak.
I also have always assumed that Spike's relatively quick recovery and the seeming lack of difference in personality is because unlike Angel, he chose and fought to regain his soul. People don't really think about the implications of the fact that Spike-the-Vampire, the soul of the demon in William's body, is the reason that the human soul was returned in the first place. The demon inside him *wants* the human soul, and therefore is in better harmony with it.
Angelus on the other hand, was turned with the intention he be a monster, and so a monster he became. Liam was someone with low moral fiber to begin with, and he now had power to act out every revenge fantasy he ever had. The first few hours/nights of vampirism are probably pretty similar to formative years in human children. What you do then sets up who you will be. Meanwhile, if we assume that human souls, upon being killed, end up wherever they're intended while the vampire is using the body, Liam was *probably* in hell. For a man like him, that would've been plenty to make him want to redeem himself and never, ever, ever go back, even if it's not a conscious thing. If the human souls are in some sort of limbo, they still likely get a better idea of what's waiting for them, now that they at least know that there is a hell at all. The demon doesn't care, though, so it fights Angel's human soul.
Darla meanwhile, iirc, had a pretty shite life as a human anyway. Comparatively, hell likely wasn't that much of a step down. She was used to doing what she had to in order to survive, and her 'sociopathy' is a dramatic extension of that survival instinct, a twisted version of "every man for himself." Being turned into a vampire didn't do anything except give her control over her own life. Being returned to a human state, with the memories of what that was like, it's unlikely she would have felt very compelled to revert to that feeling of powerlessness. She identified more with her vampire self because it was, in her mind, a better version.
Aaaand this is basically a mini-essay, sorry. I've been ruminating on this analysis for a while.
"Darla" is not a real name - it will be revealed she has no "name."
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 Yeah I know but seeing as her human name wasn't revealed how am I supposed to refer to her?
@@SuperBlaze117 i suppose the correct way to address her is not-buffy-not-cop-blonde-lady
"Aliens?"
"From outer space."
"We're on a spaceship, dear."
😂 Nice.
They just encountered aliens in season 1 - a small continuity error.
Or human Darla was always a sociopath or psychopath and never had guilt in the first place.
A vampire sire is almost always in a "parent" relationship to their vamp children in the way I see media portraying it. No difference here.
@@quinnsinclair7028 As good a possible explanation of Darla's pysche as I've heard. Sadly, of the "fang four" she's the one we know the least about before she became a vampire.
It's a pretty good theory, but I feel like later episodes contradict it.
I always kind of wondered if wolfram and hart actually bothered bringing back her soul. If she died a vampire, her soul was likely long gone and mightve taken extra effort to birng it back, ala the few glimpese of resouled vamps we get in the buffyverse. Darla might've simply been told she had a soul along with being human, but since it'd been so long since she'd been either, she wouldn't have known the difference (see spike in season 7 not being able to discern hallucinations and the first from soulbearing)
Ian said one word, (Oedipus) and I, too, slapped my forehead! 😂
*Perfection.* ✌
I thought that, perhaps not at the point of this episode, Darla *did* have a conscience--she was just suppressing it. I know that's true eventually, anyway, but perhaps it's true here, too? Or, consciously or otherwise, she's so concerned with getting Angelus back (and she's encouraged by the folks at Wolfram & Hart, with all the video's commentary on that), that she doesn't pay morality any mind. She wants to be the vampiric Darla; it's the only version of herself she really remembers. And, of course, she wants her dear boy back, for the two of them to go back to whatever glory days they might've had.
I've always loved this episode. Like you, I totally love "cheese."
Interesting, your discussion on essence of a place (and extended person) being defined by what people are doing in that moment in that space over (rather than) its history. Reminds me a bit of the ongoing discussion in your guides about existentialism and absurdity, about defining our existence and creating meaning in the making of choices, also lending itself to change/redemption. Present actions to redefine our history.
I keep forgetting how EARLY IN THE STORY WE ARE FOR THESE EPISODES. Literally cannot wait for your take on the Pylea episodes
Pylea is such a trip.
Good grief, Ian. You've done it again. The Oedipal lens fits eerily well over Darla and Angel's relationship, and I look forward to seeing how it will inform analysis of future aspects of this season and beyond (especially season four's similarly icky pairing between a son and his pseudo-mother). I appreciate how you continue to tie these analyses back to Angel's ongoing attempts to redeem and define himself anew, even amidst his frequent mistakes and backsliding.
I know the characters occasionally draw comparisons between Darla and Buffy, both physically and on deeper levels, as Angel's two main loves. I personally believe Angel and Buffy are fundamentally different together than Darla and her Boy, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. How closely do you think Angel's relationship with Buffy is linked to his past with Darla?
I've said it before and I'll say it again... and again... and again. I love everything about your Whedonverse episode guides. EVERYTHING. So happy to be able to support you (even though I fail miserably at participating in the hangouts... sorry). These are NOT lies, I promise :)
Love this episode. I like that you pointed out Darla's matriarchal role in the Whirlwind. Another nod to her as a maternal figure is the way Drusilla calls her "grandmum" and Angelus "Daddy".
It somehow still blows my mind how many layers deep Whedonverse shows can go. Glad I have a place that will point out the ones that I’ve missed for years and get my mind blown all over again
I always found it really tragic and sad that Darla kind of got the “reward” that angel was striving towards without any effort. I thought that had a lot to do with his downfall this season a bit as he reavaluated what he was fighting for. Because darla just shoves it in his face this episode - walking in the sunlight, holding a cross against him, etc.
love your videos, thank you for taking the time to do these!!
Well Angel already got that and asked for time to be turned back because without him in the coming dark times, Buffy would die as well. He could enjoy human life with her for, maybe a few years and.... yeah.
TheAngryDanishViking agreed, but he did talk with cordelia at the beginning of this season and said that he felt like he was already at the light at the end of the tunnel. And seeing as one of the themes of the second season is angel getting impatient to get to that light, that’s where I get that interpretation. And just cause he gave up the chance in the first season doesn’t mean it’s not something he doesn’t still long for. With the one in the first season It wasn’t earned, angel wants to earn the redemption, so with being human in the first season it wasn’t the right time and could cause damage, but if he was to earn his humanity back say, well then maybe the outcome would be different. I just mean that he sees turning human now as a reward for redemption and here darla is having not earned any sort of redemption being human without any effort. I think it messes with him and adds to his turmoil this season. Seeing your murderer/abuser getting a reward that you want has gotta do that.
you are making me realize things about this show i never thought i would. Thank you
Darla is enthralling, a truly seductive darkness. Great episode breakdown. I appreciate that you take the time to create these videos, thank you.
Glad you enjoy it!
I always thought the lack of soul meant being left with the ID. The most basic you without morality as well. Also given Darla's history she may never have had a chance to use her soul, even in life.
On choice, we are, in the end, our choices. That's why redemption is important. The words we are so quick to forget: in the end. We all have capacity, good and evil, in equal measure as that's nature.
On Oedipus well, really good point and for those who have seen season 4, that explains a lot. I wonder if Sailor Moon has similar themes given her source material is Greek mythology and many plot points mirror her show. In fact I always called Dawn and Conner after the different incarnations of chibuisa or princess serenity (her mother modeled after the Titan Selene) as each story is so similar in the manga. Maybe that is the key to how much the shows have in common despite the times of creation.
Reduction to the ID makes sense. Good observation.
Interestingly Oedipus had two sons who fought one another and a daughter who was buried alive because she tried to do her duty. Not that that has any relevance on Angel characters or anything.
There were a few things that, if I'd been too specific, would've been spoilers. Couldn't find a non-contextual cut for Jocasta's fate, for instance.
It’s so hard not to spoil
Oh. My. PTB.
And Antigone's lover is overcome by grief and kills himself. But that also can't possibly have any parallel in the show.
You are thinking far too literally. An allegorical son doesn't have to be a son, nor a daughter a daughter and one can be buried alive in things other than the earth.
@@PassionoftheNerd well we're not saying WHICH woman is buried but we can ... guess right? I guess the two sons are who though? Spike and Angel?
I'm so fascinated by your mention of Oedipus at Colonus, because I see some parallels to Angel, but in other ways Angel seems to reject it. Like you said, it offers a redemption story for Oedipus, which, of course, is what Angel is all about. Oedipus has also been shunned from society for his crime, but when a prophecy says the place that he is buried will be blessed, everyone rushes to make nice with him. Similarly, Angel has been an outsider, accepted neither in the demonic world nor the human one, but with the Shanshu prophecy suddenly everyone is interested in getting Angel on their side. The way their crimes play out is also similar: both aren't exactly responsible for their crimes, but that doesn't change the horror or alleviate their guilt. Oedipus at Colonus also focuses a lot on conveying how much Oedipus has suffered, the chorus says more than any man. So much of the show is showing us Angel's suffering. (On a side note, this is why I don't care that the soul lore is inconsistent. I think Angel's guilt/suffering is meant to be more extreme than anyone else's.) But on the other hand, Oedipus' redemption rests entirely on his death. An idea that gets brought up and rejected in Amends. And that's what I love about Buffy/Angel. This isn't a Greek tragedy. Redemption isn't a final release from suffering when you die. It's a long, uncertain process that hurts the whole way and you have to _live_ .
Also SPOILERS: Oedipus cursing his sons totally makes me think of Angel firing the team later this season.
I really think that darla had been comfortable with being immoral since her mortal life. so as a human she decides she approves about her vampire's version of being and so continues. it's also part of why I think spike doesn't suffer as much as angel. being a vampire gave him a backbone he lacked as a human, and I think he "forgives" himself for his action., he is comfortable with being a vampire. besides Angel had already viewed himself as unworthy when he was alive
Watch Buffy "Fool For Love" and Angel "Darla" and you will have watched the best cross-over episodes ever.
YIPPY SKIPPITY!!!!! WTH finally!? I swear these episodes are so far between I forget to expect them.
Any vampire who collaborates with Wolfram & Hart has truly soul'd out.
TUDO PRA MIM!
(It's a Brazilian enthusiastic way to say this videos are EVERYTHING IN MY LIFE!). Thank you . ❤️
As always, a phenomenal analysis and the parallels to Oedipus are fascinating. In the same vein - I suggest that if Liam’s father would be king Polybus who adopted Oedipus, than the Master is Laius. Laius is a mythical figure who is deeply connected to the idea of incest - I could even suggest that would make The Anointed One Chrysippus, who was violated by Laius as a young boy. While of course he was killed by Buffy, and not Angel, the connections are fascinating
Darla is a foil character to Buffy. Darla rejected ensouled Angel and says to him in S1E7 "Did you think she would understand? Did you think she would look at your face, your true face, and give you kiss?" As you mentioned in the previous video Buffy doesn't even notice his game face is on, and kisses him accepting, loving all of him including his demon. Something Darla doesn't do, accept all of Angel even when she's human.
Towards the end, before Darla becomes a vampire again. That wart true. She was accepting him and her soul.
God, season 2 is so beautiful.
Clicked immediately! Love these videos
Kate: You don't get it, do you?
Gunn: What? The fact that he's innocent?
Kate: The fact that while you're fighting your big battles of good and evil the innocent are the ones that get caught in the crossfire. Those are the ones that I care about, like that man tonight or like the real owners of that house if what you say is true and those are the ones I chalk up to your boss.
Wesley: You can't blame Angel fo...
He's trying to do what's right.
Kate: That's right. He's good. I keep forgetting. I'm sorry and why did he kidnap that woman again?
*Walks away*
The problem with Kate's argument in her final moments of the episode is the same problem I have when Xander says his snarky comments on BtVS. Whether they both have good points or not will not matter if they have been acting the way they have up to those good points. It's going to be difficult to care because of said past moments. Which is why Kate can say those things and characters/fans/people will not take it at the face value she thinks they should.
@@Buffy8Fan Atleast Kate had a legit reason instead of being jealous and butt hurt
@@The810kid Not acting "jealous and butt hurt" doesn't mean she was acting as a good person or a good cop/detective on top of that. Her father's death, nor her dislike of Angel doesn't give her the right to treat Angel's employee's like dirt.
@@Buffy8Fan Its actually a lot worst - shes a complete racist asking Gunn for his ID WITHOUT ANY REASON. I think Whedon is intentionally making her bad to force us to see how difficult Angel's life is - even his allies are not really on his side.
@@juancasadoybarton7067 There's never a good reason to treat someone like dirt.
hoooolllyy shoot you blew my mind with that oedipus comparison. wow.
You're always pointing out things I never noticed before. Great video!
A small character moment I really love in this episode is how, when confronted by Kate, Cordy and Wes fold their arms at the exact same time when they defend him.
Ive had a rollercoaster of a day and i am so happy you posted this
this video made my day! love your episode guides so much
Very good work as always. Recently rewatched this season and have a new love for it.
Absolutely worth the wait! That was wonderful
this is such a good review!!
i love your content , make me wanna watch the episodes multiple times 👍
Woah. Very enlightening. Nicely spotted! As always, love your analysis.
God I love some gothic cheese. I can't wait till you discuss the opposing views of siring between angel and darla.
Hooray, New video! at least one good thing can happen this week. :D Thank you!
Welcome back. Gave you a shout out on Twitter. Much love.
Dang, Ian, these videos are so densely packed with good ideas that I have to watch them at least twice to make sure I got everything.
Really glad to see you're back. This was a great review, and though Angel is my favorite series and this one of my favorite episodes, you had several insights I had missed until now.
This is my all time favorite show and your commentary keeps bringing me to deeper understanding and appreciation. Please don't stop!
I am so moved by these episodes. Its truly incredible how in depth your analysis is and it brings new joy for me when I rethink these older episodes.
I’m so excited for the next episode. It’s the one I’ve been waiting for!
Kudos to you, Sir. Amazing episode🙏🏻
I really enjoy these videos delving into these Angel episodes You bring up stuff I never thought of before. this was sucha good show and it's amazing the amount of thought that went into the hsow and character.
I love these keep them coming. My favorite show!
My obsession with this series only grows with each episode. Fabulously done!
I commented this on the Untouched video and I'll bring it back here; the 'Keeping it in the family' vibes of the Whirlwind are always fascinating to me:
"Darla had a life being abused by men and then being 'taken' by a new 'father figure' who was incapable of selfless love. Then she enacted that on Angel, and as Angel is rebirthed from his grave and looks to Darla for approval, we see how Darla has replaced his dad as a parental figure he answers to. Then Angel destroys Drusilla, tearing away her familial connections, and, well, the fact she calls him "daddy" isn't subtle. Drusilla to Spike, where Spike has to kill his mother to fully satisfy Drusilla ... "
There's a lot of parental surrogacy in the Buffyverse in general, and in Buffy it makes sense with them being young (and, for example, Buffy being effectively fatherless) but it's interesting in Angel that turns the cycle around to the focus on being the parent instead of the child. So [SPOILERS] Connor ends up representing the cycle turning over from Angel the perpetual prodigal son to Angel the father of a prodigal son ....
Anyways I love this episode! Great to connect this to Oedipus. As others have said, Darla had a much harsher life the first time around and seemed to survive on her cynicism -- add four hundred plus years of active evil on top of that, it must be pretty hard to shock her.
Also, Angel's comment about how he 'likes convents' always sends me ... some things never change!
you just keep getting better and better at this
Insightful and beautiful to watch as always!
Also, can't wait for "Fool For Love"
Like always I always enjoy your guides 👏🏾🙌🏾
SO excited for more darla stuff!
9:38 The whole thing with Angelus, Darla, Drusilla and Spike is weirdly incestuous. Darla's his vampire mother since she killed Liam and sired Angelus, then Angelus drove Dru insane then turned her to give her a fate worse than death as a crazy evil bloodsucking monster, then when Dru got lonely she sired William/ Spike who would be Angelus and Darla's "grandson" and Drusilla's "son" but also his girlfriend in the same weird way Darla was both Angel's vampire mother and wife.
Masterful as always.
Amazing as always
I always adore your videos, and look forward to your thoughts on the stories and characters. More than once, you've made me do a double take on my own interpretations of the subtext. But this time... Ian, how could you NOT have seen the Oedipus subtext sooner? You're usually so insightful!
Great pull with the Oedipus stuff. It fits so well and I never thought about it before.
Vertigo!!! This was amazing!!!
Ahhh I'm so glad we're talking about the darla arc !! Brilliant as always !
Loved this
I love this episode and the arc thereof.
NEEDED THIS.
Again, so much that went over my head.
At the rate these videos are coming out we might finish the series before the year 3000, not likely tho
I only caught the Oedipus refrence cause the scene in "Puppet show" is one of my faaaavorites.
Clicked so fast I got whiplash
I am so so sorry to be that one person but dude your lack of Angel videos are killingg meeeeeeeeeeeee. Thank you so much for uploading!
TPN to Give her character some credit. We don't see if she had any bouts of depression or remorse in the timeline from resurrection to rendezvous with Angel that we as viewers weren't prevy to. She was in a ferral state at the end of season one. She had advantages that ensouled Angelus did not. A team of highly skilled doctors and other assests around the clock as well as not having the hunger associated with vampires need for blood. She could be around someone and not smell Outback steakhouse which is what Angel resouled dealt with and surrendered for a time to solitude. WWH could've been giving her anti depressants and other drugs. Opiates for me Didnt just kill bodily pain, but emotional pain too.
Nice one on the Vertigo comparison!
This has easily evolved to my Top 3 RUclips Channels.
I never made the Angel-Oedipus connection and wow amazing parallels. This was a truly satisfying analysis
Smashed that watch button so fast
The Oedipus explanation .... i didnt slap my forehead, but my mouth was hanging open
The scales of justice (Lady Justice) was also modeled after a Greek goddess named Themis if I'm not mistaken. I wouldn't have thought about it until you pointed out the other references to Greek Myth.
Great video.
You're so clever, Ian 🤩
Anxiously waiting for him to get to "the trial" my favorite episode of the series