Hypo 'Perfect' Cell Max beats Broly, who is equal if not a tiny bit stronger than gohan beast, who beats Cell Max who beats TUI Goku who beats Orange Piccolo who beats UE Vegeta who beats MUI Goku
Given, this is not 100% clarified in the source material, but I always saw the whole "giving Cell a senzu bean" thing wasn't a "bad dad" move. I always saw it as necessity. To explain. As they pointed out in the above video, Cell wasn't on his last legs. Not even close. Moderately tired at most (arguably not tired at all, due to having absorbed 2 androids with infinite energy generators, but that is a different discussion.). The reason that is important is because, at the level Gohan started the fight at, Cell would have won. The issue is, the closer the fight was, the less likely Cell would have been to coax Gohan's latent power out. Goku gave Cell the bean, so that Cell would be at his full power, and be able to sweap Gohan without much effort. Sure, that sounds bad, but Cell is part Goku (especially in his perfect form. Goku's personality is extremely prevalent in that form. Just like Vegeta was prevalent in semi perfect, and Piccolo was imperfect.), so Goku knew exactly what he had to do to manipulate Cell. Disappoint Cell with the initial fight, while simultaneously teasing him with the idea of a good fight. In short, giving Cell a senzu bean wasn't Goku being a bad dad, it was actually increasing the likelihood that Gohan would win the fight. If Cell started out tired, and just scraped out a victory after a hard fight, because he was starting at a disadvantage, then its highly likely he would have been satisfied and just killed Gohan then and there. So Goku removed that possibility.
still doesn't remove the fact that piccolo had to shout at goku to make him realize that his son didn't want to fight but just wanted to spend time with his dad
@@MrGhst-np4zf Not sure why that is relevant. Believe it or not, Goku had no reason to believe that Gohan was against fighting. They had literally spent an entire year together, training for this very specific fight, and yet Gohan never spoke out about not wanting to fight. It would be like if there was a father who loved football, and went to every game with his son, played in the backyard with him, and even played in amateur leagues together, then out of the blue, the son says that he hates football. What about his actions would have given the father any indication that he was doing something that he didn't like? Its the same concept. Goku loves fighting. He spent the last year sharing his passion with his son. Sure, Gohan's reason for doing it was just to spend time with his dad, but he also never actually told his dad that he didn't have the same passion for fighting. In short, that aspect is less about Goku being a bad dad, and more about a breakdown in communication between father and son, which falls on both of their shoulders.
Goku was giving Krillin confidence, Goku was holding back A LOT and wasn't trying. And Vegeta was literally fine with letting baby Trunks die, didn't hug him no care about Trunks until he was 8 etc. The first thing Goku did when he saw Goten was hug him. Goku is a way better father
I don't think you can call Krillin a fraud b/c he doesn't have the expectations to be on that saiyan level. If he was constantly losing to humans than that would be another scenario. For his power level, he is not on fraud watch imo.
I'd say Gohan is in the clear. Gammas ~ Moro arc Blue Goku & Vegeta Piccolo states that he isn't sure if Goku & Vegeta could win against the Gammas. He last saw them in the Moro arc, hence my placement GammasOrange Piccolo Cell Max~Broly Toriyama only states that Broly would lose to perfect Cell Max, meaning Cell Max had the power to beat Broly, but lacked the intelligence to do so. Beasthan>>>Cell Max Another thing to point out is that Beast Gohan would absolutely demolish a Jiren level threat because of the fact that Beast Gohan is without a doubt stronger than current Blue Goku. Vegeta states that Jiren wasn't that much stronger than him or Goku in the ToP, but was just that much better at Ki efficiency. A mistake we know is fixed during the Granolah arc. Am I saying Gohan would win against one of the 2?No, but I do think that Gohan is the current strongest.
Your content is very exciting man. I really like the way how you explained each character in Dragon Ball. Also I believe that Gohan Beast could potentially be the strongest warrior in uni 7 that the oracle fish mentioned during Granolah arc. This just my opinion tho which could be right or wrong
Bro the point of him using blue was to: Scare krillin into going all out In blue he can quite literally make himself weaker than his base form because he has absolutely perfect ki control in blue
That's bullshit, he can already drop to a very low PL in base. Goku with his "guard down" can be grazed by bullets, he doesn't need to go blue to nerf himself
@@thegeomastergaming6573 why not just go super high then? Krillin cant sense god ki, thats the only difference between that and normal ki. If he went really high normally then it would be to the same effect, at that point Goku just lied to Krillin to get him to join in by hiding his ki.
@@arkkon2740 yes? thats the point of it? lol he was meant to scare him. he knows blue is the strongest form of goku regardless of if he can sense it or not, it literally doesn't matter he just knows its gokus strongest form. the whole point was to get krillin to go the absolute max he can to take the tornament seriously.
1. Goku doesn't even have to use the "Susano", in his "TUI" form he was proven to be stronger than Vegeta. 2. Krillin isn't anywhere near even base Goku (at least in the manga), as proven in the Moro arc. 3. Just so you know, Vegeta called Goku a "horrible father" in the Super manga lol.
As we saw withorange pixcolo being stated to be on par with goku toriyama can do whatever he wants. We shouldnt be suprised if vegeta and goku are equal.
@@animoments8969 Orange Piccolo most likely is on par with Goku and Vegeta Blue. I doubt Toriyama's comment was taking into account the post Broly manga events, most people don't read the manga and I doubt Toriyama would spoil anything from it. Another reason I say this is because in that same time Toriyama said "If Cell Max was complete not even Broly could beat him", so it seems he was considering Broly as the pinacle of power stronger than Goku and Vegeta, when we know for a fact that during the Granola arc Goku and Vegeta surpassed him.
Can we please please please get these types of videos again I miss this version of Shonen Showdown so much can we please get these more often again 💯💯💯
The thing with krillin scaling is that: while ssb has perfect ki control it also is an insane power boost. Ssb is what happens when a saiyan uses god ki to go super saiyan. Base goku at the end of battle of gods was stronger than his initial god transformation. Then throughout super we goku go from needing kaioken x20 vs hit to not needing it in the rematch. Then he gets a zenkai in the black arc. And gets so strong he thinks he could beat merged zamasu if he had a sensu bean. Ssj is a 50x multiplier ssj2 -100 ssj3 x 300 with ss god well beyond that. And then ss blue is 50x on top of ss god. So even if goku used 1% of his power against krillin that’s above anything in cell saga for example. Which is backed up by krillin being able to fight against people who can knock out 18 briefly. Its less that krillin scales to ssb but more so that he’s far above what people even think
I mean, if we look at the circumstances. He could'nt really spend time with goten because as mentioned he was dead because he sacrificied himself so for the most part he could'nt really spend time with his son, hell the moment he came back there was trouble starting with Buu and even then for most of the arc he spend time with goten to help him. Also the reason he didn't want to come back is because most of the villains that came to earth were there to take Goku's head which is true especially wheb you look at Frieza or the RR cyborgs and even Buu which happened legit the same day he came back. For the senzu bean moment, Cell is a cocky character and Goku played on that which is shown throughout the fight because Cell was trying moreso to get Gohan angry and get him to be stronger rather than to kill him, hell even during the fight Gohan is legit implied several times to be holding back because he doesn't like to fight and even then Cell legit states that he'll need to use his full speed against him. So tbh even with that i don't think Goku's a bad father. Also for the Gohan Beast part there's a lot i could talk about alongside the other takes, but this comment's already long enough
Been watching anime since 2012 and even watched the whole big 3 yet it wasn’t til last year that I FINALLY took the dragon ball plunge. I’ve now watched the OG, Z, GT, super and almost all the Z movies plus super broly. I’m _loving_ being able to go through my fav anime channels and be able to watch the dragon ball vids. And yeah Krillin boxing SSB goku was hilarious 😭😭
Funfact : Goku actually has never defeated Vegeta in a 1 v 1 match. Either the is interpreted by someone (when is Goku is losing too) or someone just helped Goku Don't believe go see every fight of Goku vs Vegeta and see if Goku ever defeated Vegeta
@@animoments8969 yes I know that for that fight if Goku used ssj3 he might have won that fight but ssj3 have alot of limiation plus we can see for all other fight Vegeta would have won plus we know that as well that ssj3 is inferior to ssj2 from dragon ball super
Vegeta shouldn’t be on fraud watch. The reasoning doesn’t make much sense. He got a new form that put him above goku temporarily, ofc goku WHO IS THE MAIN CHARACTER and toriyama favourite is going to surpass him again. But as we saw black frieza one shot them both depicting they are narratively floating around the same level. That doesn’t make vegeta fraud candidate. He does exactly what he supposed to and that’s BE A RIVAL. He in the clear
W video and ngl that was the thing that was kinda iffy about gohan. I believe that gohan could become the strongest character in the series, but bro deadass just reads books all day😂. We know he got potential but he doesn’t use it so for them to say cell max was stronger than goku and vegeta then that’s a huge stretch. Bro really should be close to them in strength now if he consistently trained throughout the years.
Goku was a terrible father to both of his kids he knew his son Gohan had anger issues and emotional problems and Goku as a father exploited that and told Gohan basically it's okay to be uncontrollably mad
When Goku uses A full power Blue kamehameha it puts his arms out of commission watch the clash against Zamasu. Now before anyone says Krillin blue level he ain’t he’s around the SSj 1 or 2 level Goku can just control his output in blue better than anything else 😂
Love the vid, but we should consider the fact that the manga is toriyama's opinion on what should happen and the anime is just a bunch of people making people fight
Im going to be honest, I think the senzu bean from goku was always a bad idea If he believed in Gohan, then he had no reason to give Cell the bean, he would either hype up Gohan or let him go first. I think the bean wasn't because he believed in Gohan, it was because he saw himself so much in Gohan that he externalized his thought process onto him, that was for *Goku*, even his reaction to Piccolo calling him out kind of proves this point And this kinda happens again with another dumb decision in the Buu saga, if he put his kids in mind with these world ending theeats then he wouldn't hold back a transformation. That fight with Vegeta could have changed the path of the arc for the better and he didn't take it
vegeta is a way worse father than goku, bro didn’t had a single thought of saving Trunks, Bulla, and Bulma when they where in danger. Yes you can say he sacrifice his kids, but bro never even huge his son not once.
All I am saying is, the "Goku is a bad father," allegations with genuine belief, has gotta stop - especially from those have only watched abridged, I mean, Goku died not once, but TWICE for his son, that's one time too many already.
i think that hes stronger than mui because gamma 1 and gamma 2 are stated to be equal to the current goku and vegeta in the future but it depends what arc it may be and the gohan that beat gamma 1 stood no chance to cell max. And in the movie and manga they say that if goku and vegeta were here it would make no difference (no hate though love the vids)
Dragon Ball Super needs to chill with the villains it’s because they keep on making the next villain stronger than the last. Before Jiren was basically dubbed the strongest mortal but then Broly shows up, and then bootleg Cell shows out of nowhere, and apparently he is stronger than both of them. Dragon Ball needs to cool down and think about where they want to go with the story, because I think I speak for everyone here we need to catch our breath and relax.
saying gohan is a fraud because the consistency isnt there like goku and vegeta being able to become as powerful as they want at will is irrelevant. is doesnt matter whose consistant and whose not. The question was is gohan a fraud based off of beast being strong than goku and vegeta. Yes. When he is in that form he is stronger, doesnt matter how he got there. It doesnt change the overall result of him being there. how you feel about something thats factually stated by the creator your bias and feeling dont hold up in an argument.
In the manga it Also has been stated that super Saiyan blue is pathetic its been stated by zamasu in the manga so just ssjg is a better form than blue ssj blue is made to fight against everyone so its very pathetic they point it out in the Manga telling us ssjg blue is weak then super Saiyan god.
DUDE GOKU DIED FOR HIS SON NOT ONCE BUT TWICE AND HE WAS LITTERALLY DEAD WHEN GOHAN WAS FIGHTING BOUGJACK AND CAME DOWN TO HELP HIM HE IS NOT ON FRAUD WATCH.no hate btw just wanted to point that out
This goku vs piccolo father shit needs to stay in the memes because in the actual series piccolo treated gohan more worse than his actual father he through gohan into a mountain and in a forest to fend for himself that includes finding food and shelter for himself to no parent in anime would let that happen unless it’s unrealistic as hell No body in dragon ball is a good parent except for krillen and 18
When watching this is all I’ll say on goku He named gohan and raised him following chi chi and was there He died protecting gohan He came back and saved him again and actually spent a year training him Sensu bean scene he had gohan live up to his potential and be able to protect himself and who he loved He died again for them and stayed that way so he could have a good life He had 1 day back and he came to gotten spun him around clearly loving He showed over and over again he he loves them tells them as much and treats them gently and kindly And for a lot of super yh he was training but we saw he spent time with gohan and gotten and he was a present fighter and when he wasn’t it was for the sake of protecting them through getting stronger Goku ain’t on fraud watch goku a great father
Everybody shitin on goku being a bad dad keeps forgetting he never had a real father figure in his life FOR YEARS grandpa gohan died and roshi is not any better yea he taught him how to fight but that was it goku is the same character that was kicking women in the crouch to see if they were women and you expect him to be a A1 dad you are all crazy bardock his actual father didn’t even care he existed until he saw that goku beat frieza ,fuckin vegeta didn’t even acknowledge his son until he turned super saiyan
Also let’s mention how Goku spent a year with his son & didn’t come to understand he wasn’t a fighter. Giving Cell a senzu bean was a gesture of absolute faith but parental ignorance. Like if you think about it, Goku has been a better MENTOR to Gohan rather than an actual FATHER. Thats prolly just the saiyan in him & being raised in the mountains but still
Krillin FRAUD WATCH !!! I get it he used to be portrayed is weak but his biq is easily atleast top 5 maybe 3 in the verse excluding gods , beat gohan in a spar with ult on instantly removing this dumb ahh ssj1 power cap y’all try to give him , and goku borrows tactics for their spar in top that literally almost wins the tournament for them not working merely because it’s JIREN !!
Okay I watched the video further and this is what I have to say, Toriyama stated that Cell Max is the strongest opponent the z fighters have faced yet making Cell Max stronger than jiren who is only op because of his level of control, manipulation and efficiency of ki and broly who needs help to control his ki and I feel like your forgetting that the movie was all about gohan and not some villain who isn't playing a major role in the franchise we should also consider the fact that cell max's projectiles go all the way into orbit man and the gammas were made to be stronger than goku and vegeta based on what they last saw of them being ssj blue seing as ultimate gohan was able to hold off ssj blue goku but was being outdone by gamma 1's power and huge energy reserves and lastly we should also consider what the oracle fish prophecised about the universes strongest rising that is all i have to say, bye
Y’all caping for goku a lil bit. All that stuff of saiyans being terrible parents has been retconned, in fact most of the ones we see are good parents. Worse still, Goku was raised by a human so he’s not got an excuse for bad role models. Don’t get me started on having one day to go back to earth and choosing fighting instead of meeting your son for the FIRST TIME. He ain’t the worst anime dad for sure, but he is definitely trash
To be fair, Vegeta beat Goku in a heavily limited sparring match, where they weren't allowed to use their full power, nor were they allowed to use any techniques, short of straight martial arts. That really wasn't a very good indicator of who would actually win the fight. And that isn't even including the fact that the end of the fight straight up shows us that it was insanely close, and could have gone either way. Also, lets be honest, the writers of Super have no idea what they are actually talking about anyway. When Vegeta beats Goku, he says something along the lines of "YES! I finally won!" The problem with that is, Vegeta has literally gone 3 and 0 in his fights against Goku. He has literally won every single fight they have ever had.
He got beat up on Earth by Goku and the Z fighters so I don't think he counts that as a win even though he beat Goku 1 on 1, then he thought Goku who was holding back against him in Buu arc and they were even in ssj2 forms until Vegeta sneaked goku by pretending he would team up, thats not an honourable win so vegeta wouldn't accept that. So this would be his first win against goku in a fair 1 v 1 fight@@ikeillue8385
@@bananaBread16 Well, that would be a safe bet, considering that, again, Vegeta has won every single fight they have ever had. Though, there is an argument to be made, specifically taking their ultimate forms into consideration. I would argue that UI would give Goku the advantage in a single fight, but UE would give Vegeta the advantage in the long term.
Shouen showdown I love your content but we all have to open our minds and think about characters in super just no it's enough Goku isn't that strong nor is anyone in super they struggle to much and it's all about the Goku show I hate super how they hold characters behind Goku and Vegeta and just let plot carrie it. It's boring I don't appreciate how stupid Goku is and how selfish he is in super that's not the Goku we like their are multiple dragon ball mangas that have Goku as a mature men but I'm super manga he act like a child I don't appreciate how they ruin Goku in super he lose to much because of skill.
Hear me out. Krillin was able to hold up Cell Max’s foot alongside Piccolo for a little bit. I feel like that would put him above the Goku that first went ssg against Lord Beerus. Bro is no fraud in my book.
DBS Manga is pathetic though they don't have any plot the DBS Manga it's just a bunch of load of inconsistent Stuff and like I said they don't have characters just win the fight when it comes to consequences it's stupid.
After watching this, check this out: ruclips.net/video/kBd9BQ4wCQk/видео.html
Honor to be the first comment
Once it hits the screen y’all gotta cover frieza black. He’s so fire.
Hypo 'Perfect' Cell Max beats Broly, who is equal if not a tiny bit stronger than gohan beast, who beats Cell Max who beats TUI Goku who beats Orange Piccolo who beats UE Vegeta who beats MUI Goku
In power levels
I swear Anime sundays And Shonen slowdowns is the ultimate duo
Love them
Much love!!
facts
Gohan never forgot when Goku gave Cell that senzu bean
🤣🤣 he never forgot fr!
Gohan turned into a nerd afterwards. He realized he ain't built for it. 😂
@@riotman3579like the Hulk😂
@@riotman3579He came back
Lolol
Given, this is not 100% clarified in the source material, but I always saw the whole "giving Cell a senzu bean" thing wasn't a "bad dad" move. I always saw it as necessity. To explain. As they pointed out in the above video, Cell wasn't on his last legs. Not even close. Moderately tired at most (arguably not tired at all, due to having absorbed 2 androids with infinite energy generators, but that is a different discussion.). The reason that is important is because, at the level Gohan started the fight at, Cell would have won. The issue is, the closer the fight was, the less likely Cell would have been to coax Gohan's latent power out. Goku gave Cell the bean, so that Cell would be at his full power, and be able to sweap Gohan without much effort. Sure, that sounds bad, but Cell is part Goku (especially in his perfect form. Goku's personality is extremely prevalent in that form. Just like Vegeta was prevalent in semi perfect, and Piccolo was imperfect.), so Goku knew exactly what he had to do to manipulate Cell. Disappoint Cell with the initial fight, while simultaneously teasing him with the idea of a good fight.
In short, giving Cell a senzu bean wasn't Goku being a bad dad, it was actually increasing the likelihood that Gohan would win the fight. If Cell started out tired, and just scraped out a victory after a hard fight, because he was starting at a disadvantage, then its highly likely he would have been satisfied and just killed Gohan then and there. So Goku removed that possibility.
still doesn't remove the fact that piccolo had to shout at goku to make him realize that his son didn't want to fight but just wanted to spend time with his dad
@@MrGhst-np4zf Not sure why that is relevant. Believe it or not, Goku had no reason to believe that Gohan was against fighting. They had literally spent an entire year together, training for this very specific fight, and yet Gohan never spoke out about not wanting to fight. It would be like if there was a father who loved football, and went to every game with his son, played in the backyard with him, and even played in amateur leagues together, then out of the blue, the son says that he hates football. What about his actions would have given the father any indication that he was doing something that he didn't like? Its the same concept. Goku loves fighting. He spent the last year sharing his passion with his son. Sure, Gohan's reason for doing it was just to spend time with his dad, but he also never actually told his dad that he didn't have the same passion for fighting.
In short, that aspect is less about Goku being a bad dad, and more about a breakdown in communication between father and son, which falls on both of their shoulders.
Goku was giving Krillin confidence, Goku was holding back A LOT and wasn't trying. And Vegeta was literally fine with letting baby Trunks die, didn't hug him no care about Trunks until he was 8 etc. The first thing Goku did when he saw Goten was hug him. Goku is a way better father
the power scaling in the anime is way higher than the manga atleast in the tournament of power.
I don't think you can call Krillin a fraud b/c he doesn't have the expectations to be on that saiyan level. If he was constantly losing to humans than that would be another scenario. For his power level, he is not on fraud watch imo.
This style of video is so nostalgic. You need to do more of these plus please more anime hot takes pleaseeeee
I'd say Gohan is in the clear.
Gammas ~ Moro arc Blue Goku & Vegeta
Piccolo states that he isn't sure if Goku & Vegeta could win against the Gammas. He last saw them in the Moro arc, hence my placement
GammasOrange Piccolo
Cell Max~Broly
Toriyama only states that Broly would lose to perfect Cell Max, meaning Cell Max had the power to beat Broly, but lacked the intelligence to do so.
Beasthan>>>Cell Max
Another thing to point out is that Beast Gohan would absolutely demolish a Jiren level threat because of the fact that Beast Gohan is without a doubt stronger than current Blue Goku. Vegeta states that Jiren wasn't that much stronger than him or Goku in the ToP, but was just that much better at Ki efficiency. A mistake we know is fixed during the Granolah arc.
Am I saying Gohan would win against one of the 2?No, but I do think that Gohan is the current strongest.
Your content is very exciting man. I really like the way how you explained each character in Dragon Ball. Also I believe that Gohan Beast could potentially be the strongest warrior in uni 7 that the oracle fish mentioned during Granolah arc. This just my opinion tho which could be right or wrong
Glad you enjoy it!! Thanks so much
Bro the point of him using blue was to:
Scare krillin into going all out
In blue he can quite literally make himself weaker than his base form because he has absolutely perfect ki control in blue
yea some people don't get that
That's bullshit, he can already drop to a very low PL in base. Goku with his "guard down" can be grazed by bullets, he doesn't need to go blue to nerf himself
@@Cer049 did you read the whole thing? I said he also went blue to scare him into going all out.
@@thegeomastergaming6573 why not just go super high then? Krillin cant sense god ki, thats the only difference between that and normal ki. If he went really high normally then it would be to the same effect, at that point Goku just lied to Krillin to get him to join in by hiding his ki.
@@arkkon2740 yes? thats the point of it? lol he was meant to scare him. he knows blue is the strongest form of goku regardless of if he can sense it or not, it literally doesn't matter he just knows its gokus strongest form. the whole point was to get krillin to go the absolute max he can to take the tornament seriously.
I feel like this is less about who is a fraud and more about how inconsistent supers writing is.
That's a good point!
DBS doesn’t have inconsistent writing
@@MarcusReundeer I mean in terms of character growth/strength
@@xldirty-scopez8785 How so?
@@MarcusReundeernot just DBS but the whole franchise is inconsistent
I'm sick of goku always being the savior. Lets get the Vegeta leader
cry about it psycho
1. Goku doesn't even have to use the "Susano", in his "TUI" form he was proven to be stronger than Vegeta.
2. Krillin isn't anywhere near even base Goku (at least in the manga), as proven in the Moro arc.
3. Just so you know, Vegeta called Goku a "horrible father" in the Super manga lol.
As we saw withorange pixcolo being stated to be on par with goku toriyama can do whatever he wants. We shouldnt be suprised if vegeta and goku are equal.
@@animoments8969 Orange Piccolo most likely is on par with Goku and Vegeta Blue. I doubt Toriyama's comment was taking into account the post Broly manga events, most people don't read the manga and I doubt Toriyama would spoil anything from it. Another reason I say this is because in that same time Toriyama said "If Cell Max was complete not even Broly could beat him", so it seems he was considering Broly as the pinacle of power stronger than Goku and Vegeta, when we know for a fact that during the Granola arc Goku and Vegeta surpassed him.
@@dimitri4888thats false since gamma 1 and 2 beat ssb goku and vegeta from the Granola arc, orange piccolo is at minimum mui goku level
Another banger of a video coming up!
You already know!
Can we please please please get these types of videos again I miss this version of Shonen Showdown so much can we please get these more often again 💯💯💯
For sure, I'll try to make it happen more often!
Okay bet when gohan beat black frieza I want you to say sorry for calling my boy a fraud
Theh said he on "fraud watch" not that he's a fraud
He won't lil bro
But goku wasn't raised on planet vageta, but on earth with a loving family
No gokus granpa died while goku was a todler. After that goku lived alone in the mountains until bulma came and they went on a journey.
The thing with krillin scaling is that: while ssb has perfect ki control it also is an insane power boost. Ssb is what happens when a saiyan uses god ki to go super saiyan. Base goku at the end of battle of gods was stronger than his initial god transformation.
Then throughout super we goku go from needing kaioken x20 vs hit to not needing it in the rematch. Then he gets a zenkai in the black arc. And gets so strong he thinks he could beat merged zamasu if he had a sensu bean.
Ssj is a 50x multiplier ssj2 -100 ssj3 x 300 with ss god well beyond that.
And then ss blue is 50x on top of ss god.
So even if goku used 1% of his power against krillin that’s above anything in cell saga for example. Which is backed up by krillin being able to fight against people who can knock out 18 briefly.
Its less that krillin scales to ssb but more so that he’s far above what people even think
5:17 ok editor. Chao Races theme from Sonic Adventure. I see you
I added that haha! Love that theme, good ear
@ShonenShowdown Oh, my bad lol. And that theme is really good.
I mean, if we look at the circumstances. He could'nt really spend time with goten because as mentioned he was dead because he sacrificied himself so for the most part he could'nt really spend time with his son, hell the moment he came back there was trouble starting with Buu and even then for most of the arc he spend time with goten to help him. Also the reason he didn't want to come back is because most of the villains that came to earth were there to take Goku's head which is true especially wheb you look at Frieza or the RR cyborgs and even Buu which happened legit the same day he came back. For the senzu bean moment, Cell is a cocky character and Goku played on that which is shown throughout the fight because Cell was trying moreso to get Gohan angry and get him to be stronger rather than to kill him, hell even during the fight Gohan is legit implied several times to be holding back because he doesn't like to fight and even then Cell legit states that he'll need to use his full speed against him. So tbh even with that i don't think Goku's a bad father.
Also for the Gohan Beast part there's a lot i could talk about alongside the other takes, but this comment's already long enough
Been watching anime since 2012 and even watched the whole big 3 yet it wasn’t til last year that I FINALLY took the dragon ball plunge. I’ve now watched the OG, Z, GT, super and almost all the Z movies plus super broly. I’m _loving_ being able to go through my fav anime channels and be able to watch the dragon ball vids.
And yeah Krillin boxing SSB goku was hilarious 😭😭
Funfact : Goku actually has never defeated Vegeta in a 1 v 1 match. Either the is interpreted by someone (when is Goku is losing too) or someone just helped Goku
Don't believe go see every fight of Goku vs Vegeta and see if Goku ever defeated Vegeta
Goku still had ssj 3 as a trunk card, he just didnt use it against majun vegeta because he was orotectinng his pride
@@animoments8969 yes I know that for that fight if Goku used ssj3 he might have won that fight but ssj3 have alot of limiation plus we can see for all other fight Vegeta would have won plus we know that as well that ssj3 is inferior to ssj2 from dragon ball super
Vegeta shouldn’t be on fraud watch. The reasoning doesn’t make much sense. He got a new form that put him above goku temporarily, ofc goku WHO IS THE MAIN CHARACTER and toriyama favourite is going to surpass him again. But as we saw black frieza one shot them both depicting they are narratively floating around the same level. That doesn’t make vegeta fraud candidate. He does exactly what he supposed to and that’s BE A RIVAL. He in the clear
piccollo the villian you know the big scary guy who tried to destroy the earth is a better farther
People who think beast Gohan is stronger than goku are delusional
So the creator of the show is delusional?
i wouldnt say the characters are frauds,Akira is just consistently incosistent as fuck with his characters
Anime and manga powers are completely different from what I’ve heard
Goku: Nah, I’d Win…
W video and ngl that was the thing that was kinda iffy about gohan. I believe that gohan could become the strongest character in the series, but bro deadass just reads books all day😂. We know he got potential but he doesn’t use it so for them to say cell max was stronger than goku and vegeta then that’s a huge stretch. Bro really should be close to them in strength now if he consistently trained throughout the years.
yk toriyama says gohan is the strongest right
Vegeta didn’t even hug trunks till he was 8 and then proceeded to blow himself up
Goku was a terrible father to both of his kids he knew his son Gohan had anger issues and emotional problems and Goku as a father exploited that and told Gohan basically it's okay to be uncontrollably mad
watch the series again
Vegeta is definitely a fraud but not cause he's stronger than goku.
His plot armor and consistent failures make him a fraud.
When Goku uses A full power Blue kamehameha it puts his arms out of commission watch the clash against Zamasu. Now before anyone says Krillin blue level he ain’t he’s around the SSj 1 or 2 level Goku can just control his output in blue better than anything else 😂
Ui goku dog walks beast gohan.
Krillin's not a fraud he hurt cell max the same cell max who was betting orange piccolo who is around goku and vegeta level according to toriama.
Since db is my favorite anime and ur my favorite anime channel im glad this happens
Some really good points 👍
Love the vid, but we should consider the fact that the manga is toriyama's opinion on what should happen and the anime is just a bunch of people making people fight
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat krillin cmon guys guys what are yall smokin over there
Anime Sunday was onto nothing when he said beast gohan and toppo in the same sentence 💀
Gohan aint really fought nobody but shitty cell max
Im going to be honest, I think the senzu bean from goku was always a bad idea
If he believed in Gohan, then he had no reason to give Cell the bean, he would either hype up Gohan or let him go first. I think the bean wasn't because he believed in Gohan, it was because he saw himself so much in Gohan that he externalized his thought process onto him, that was for *Goku*, even his reaction to Piccolo calling him out kind of proves this point
And this kinda happens again with another dumb decision in the Buu saga, if he put his kids in mind with these world ending theeats then he wouldn't hold back a transformation. That fight with Vegeta could have changed the path of the arc for the better and he didn't take it
vegeta is a way worse father than goku, bro didn’t had a single thought of saving Trunks, Bulla, and Bulma when they where in danger. Yes you can say he sacrifice his kids, but bro never even huge his son not once.
Roshi’s the true fraud 😂
Ngl I am so happy kishimoto has dinnaly focused on two of our favorite character gokus been getting to many power ups
Vegeta has more trasformations than Goku btw
Kishimoto? That's the guy who wrote Naruto not dragon ball 🤣
All I am saying is, the "Goku is a bad father," allegations with genuine belief, has gotta stop - especially from those have only watched abridged, I mean, Goku died not once, but TWICE for his son, that's one time too many already.
What if the first 2 ep of diama were the kid stuff and then they went straight to the manga stuff. That would be hype
i think that hes stronger than mui because gamma 1 and gamma 2 are stated to be equal to the current goku and vegeta in the future but it depends what arc it may be and the gohan that beat gamma 1 stood no chance to cell max. And in the movie and manga they say that if goku and vegeta were here it would make no difference (no hate though love the vids)
Eeeh yeah gohan isn't aware of ultra-ego
i meant goku and vegeta mb@@painvillegaming4119
Dragon Ball Super needs to chill with the villains it’s because they keep on making the next villain stronger than the last. Before Jiren was basically dubbed the strongest mortal but then Broly shows up, and then bootleg Cell shows out of nowhere, and apparently he is stronger than both of them. Dragon Ball needs to cool down and think about where they want to go with the story, because I think I speak for everyone here we need to catch our breath and relax.
Saying cell max isnt a toppo lvl threat is genuinely the most disgusting take ive heard about super hero
saying gohan is a fraud because the consistency isnt there like goku and vegeta being able to become as powerful as they want at will is irrelevant. is doesnt matter whose consistant and whose not. The question was is gohan a fraud based off of beast being strong than goku and vegeta. Yes. When he is in that form he is stronger, doesnt matter how he got there. It doesnt change the overall result of him being there. how you feel about something thats factually stated by the creator your bias and feeling dont hold up in an argument.
If the creator himself said it’s stronger you can’t argue against that🤣 end of story
yeah thats what im saying. Personal opinions are null then facts have been stated.@@Ronin-kk4bt
In the manga it Also has been stated that super Saiyan blue is pathetic its been stated by zamasu in the manga so just ssjg is a better form than blue ssj blue is made to fight against everyone so its very pathetic they point it out in the Manga telling us ssjg blue is weak then super Saiyan god.
Gohan beast is awful
and gohan is a beast what are youtalking about
I'm the goat for seeing the video 15 seconds after it was posted
DUDE GOKU DIED FOR HIS SON NOT ONCE BUT TWICE AND HE WAS LITTERALLY DEAD WHEN GOHAN WAS FIGHTING BOUGJACK AND CAME DOWN TO HELP HIM HE IS NOT ON FRAUD WATCH.no hate btw just wanted to point that out
Their videos fells like anime is a very serious topic more than country issues😂
Ibro said cell max ain't even toppo level
I think cell max is jiren level
For me dragon ball is the only anime I’ll watch with dub
Db and yyh for me
everyone in this anime is a fraud except Beerus and zeno
This goku vs piccolo father shit needs to stay in the memes because in the actual series piccolo treated gohan more worse than his actual father he through gohan into a mountain and in a forest to fend for himself that includes finding food and shelter for himself to no parent in anime would let that happen unless it’s unrealistic as hell No body in dragon ball is a good parent except for krillen and 18
define a good parent
When watching this is all I’ll say on goku
He named gohan and raised him following chi chi and was there
He died protecting gohan
He came back and saved him again and actually spent a year training him
Sensu bean scene he had gohan live up to his potential and be able to protect himself and who he loved
He died again for them and stayed that way so he could have a good life
He had 1 day back and he came to gotten spun him around clearly loving
He showed over and over again he he loves them tells them as much and treats them gently and kindly
And for a lot of super yh he was training but we saw he spent time with gohan and gotten and he was a present fighter and when he wasn’t it was for the sake of protecting them through getting stronger
Goku ain’t on fraud watch goku a great father
Everybody shitin on goku being a bad dad keeps forgetting he never had a real father figure in his life FOR YEARS grandpa gohan died and roshi is not any better yea he taught him how to fight but that was it goku is the same character that was kicking women in the crouch to see if they were women and you expect him to be a A1 dad you are all crazy bardock his actual father didn’t even care he existed until he saw that goku beat frieza ,fuckin vegeta didn’t even acknowledge his son until he turned super saiyan
You forgot about Beerus.. he should be on fraud watch.. I don't think he's that much stronger than current Goku and Vegeta...
oh wow, this is definitely a conversation
Depends if u mean Manga or Anime
Manga, He's stronger
Anime, Goku & Vegeta are stronger
Man this should really be Akira Toriyama is a Fraud lol
Also let’s mention how Goku spent a year with his son & didn’t come to understand he wasn’t a fighter. Giving Cell a senzu bean was a gesture of absolute faith but parental ignorance.
Like if you think about it, Goku has been a better MENTOR to Gohan rather than an actual FATHER. Thats prolly just the saiyan in him & being raised in the mountains but still
Krillin FRAUD WATCH !!! I get it he used to be portrayed is weak but his biq is easily atleast top 5 maybe 3 in the verse excluding gods , beat gohan in a spar with ult on instantly removing this dumb ahh ssj1 power cap y’all try to give him , and goku borrows tactics for their spar in top that literally almost wins the tournament for them not working merely because it’s JIREN !!
I’m putting Anime Sundays on fraud watch for his logic for Gohan
Put this one on your next fraud watch:
Is Dragon Ball Super better than Dragon Ball GT?
It’s not DBZ. It’s DBS.
i remember you had like 10k subs bro Now you almost at 200K love to see the growth man, you deserve it
Appreciate it! Much love!
Finally early to one of these
Okay I watched the video further and this is what I have to say, Toriyama stated that Cell Max is the strongest opponent the z fighters have faced yet making Cell Max stronger than jiren who is only op because of his level of control, manipulation and efficiency of ki and broly who needs help to control his ki and I feel like your forgetting that the movie was all about gohan and not some villain who isn't playing a major role in the franchise we should also consider the fact that cell max's projectiles go all the way into orbit man and the gammas were made to be stronger than goku and vegeta based on what they last saw of them being ssj blue seing as ultimate gohan was able to hold off ssj blue goku but was being outdone by gamma 1's power and huge energy reserves and lastly we should also consider what the oracle fish prophecised about the universes strongest rising that is all i have to say, bye
ok i am not up to date with db media the last db series i saw was dbs but when the hell did goku get sharingan
He got the mangyeko after killing his brother radditz.
@@animoments8969 so saiyan is the orignal uchiha
Y’all caping for goku a lil bit.
All that stuff of saiyans being terrible parents has been retconned, in fact most of the ones we see are good parents. Worse still, Goku was raised by a human so he’s not got an excuse for bad role models.
Don’t get me started on having one day to go back to earth and choosing fighting instead of meeting your son for the FIRST TIME.
He ain’t the worst anime dad for sure, but he is definitely trash
he is not a trash father
goku wasnt raised on planet vegeta he does not have that culture you are assuming it's innate when yhe only comparison is the prince of saiyans
Well Vegeta beat Goku in Superhero which is the current in the Manga
To be fair, Vegeta beat Goku in a heavily limited sparring match, where they weren't allowed to use their full power, nor were they allowed to use any techniques, short of straight martial arts. That really wasn't a very good indicator of who would actually win the fight. And that isn't even including the fact that the end of the fight straight up shows us that it was insanely close, and could have gone either way.
Also, lets be honest, the writers of Super have no idea what they are actually talking about anyway. When Vegeta beats Goku, he says something along the lines of "YES! I finally won!" The problem with that is, Vegeta has literally gone 3 and 0 in his fights against Goku. He has literally won every single fight they have ever had.
@ikeillue8385 don't matter I still got Vegeta
He got beat up on Earth by Goku and the Z fighters so I don't think he counts that as a win even though he beat Goku 1 on 1, then he thought Goku who was holding back against him in Buu arc and they were even in ssj2 forms until Vegeta sneaked goku by pretending he would team up, thats not an honourable win so vegeta wouldn't accept that. So this would be his first win against goku in a fair 1 v 1 fight@@ikeillue8385
@@bananaBread16 Well, that would be a safe bet, considering that, again, Vegeta has won every single fight they have ever had. Though, there is an argument to be made, specifically taking their ultimate forms into consideration. I would argue that UI would give Goku the advantage in a single fight, but UE would give Vegeta the advantage in the long term.
Goku is the Goat.
The word ''fraud'' is so over used and miss used in the anime community to the point to where it's annoying.
I thought if anyone would use it right it would be shonen showdown but I guess I was wrong
ittook ultra instink to ddefeat kefla
React to Some Naruto characters rap from rustage
Shouen showdown I love your content but we all have to open our minds and think about characters in super just no it's enough Goku isn't that strong nor is anyone in super they struggle to much and it's all about the Goku show I hate super how they hold characters behind Goku and Vegeta and just let plot carrie it. It's boring I don't appreciate how stupid Goku is and how selfish he is in super that's not the Goku we like their are multiple dragon ball mangas that have Goku as a mature men but I'm super manga he act like a child I don't appreciate how they ruin Goku in super he lose to much because of skill.
Hear me out. Krillin was able to hold up Cell Max’s foot alongside Piccolo for a little bit. I feel like that would put him above the Goku that first went ssg against Lord Beerus. Bro is no fraud in my book.
DBS Manga is pathetic though they don't have any plot the DBS Manga it's just a bunch of load of inconsistent Stuff and like I said they don't have characters just win the fight when it comes to consequences it's stupid.