@@bajacore yeah…now that you mentioned it…heated grips are very nice…but I’d rather buy aftermarket for like a 100 bucks over the manufacture option that raises the sticker price 1500 😂
This is exactly why I enjoy my moto guzzi and royal Enfield motorcycles. Less tech bobbles means more focus on riding and less to maintain or break. Simple and solid are the way forward for me.
@@1990-t1j Hi. I had a 2016 Bullet 500 until almost exactly a year ago when it got totaled. I now own a 2022 INT 650 I bought in February and put over 7,000 miles but had to stop because it's just too wet to ride lately. As soon as it dries out, I'll be back on it. I love really simple bikes with basic technology, but I love EFI and anti-lock brakes. The rest of that technology and massive HP overkill they can keep.
As a returning rider in my 50's and a huge Honda fan, I picked up a CB300R and absolutely love it. My Harley friends ask me to slow down in twisties, I'm getting about 110mpg around town, and I'm making a mono wheel trailer for week long camping. It's simple and a blast!
Always been Pro Honda, I have owned a CBR600F3, Fireblade 954rr and the mighty VTR1000SP2.....I have been off 2 wheels for 10 years and I was missing my motorbike days. I decided to get a cheap runner, 2011 CBR250r, I was a wee bit concerned, it would feel like a dinky toy and dull........ I was very surprised that the 250R felt like a real motorbike, and had plenty of personality. Sure, the power and torque ain't much, however, this motorbike delivers me grins and smiles, and for the best part - I don't get into trouble twisting the throttle and going up the gears.......and the fuel economy truly makes me feel like I am riding for free! (particularly when compared to my car!). Because of this - I choose to take the bike in place of the car as much as possible!
Used to ride a 750 on track (at a reasonably fast pace), but there was no way I could ride that bike anywhere near its potential on the road. More recently I got a Svartpilen 401 and I ride it like I stole it. Riding a slow bike fast is way more fun than riding a fast bike slow.
I have heard that saying a lot, and I suppose it makes sense on the twisties, but as a commuter this doesn't hold true in my experience as 80% of my daily ride is freeway. Riding a low displacement bike at WOT the entire time is excessively noisy, introduces a lot of vibration, and leaves you with no extra power to escape a bad situation.
Is that the Husqvarna. I have the Duke 390 KTM and if you have the Husqvarna I think we have the same engine and yes I agree with you whole heartedly. Its a joy to ride.
@@c.a.marsupial.1282 Yes, Husqvarna Svartpilen 491, sister bike to the Duke 390, which I got to test ride back-to-back with the Svart, both great bikes but the Svart just edged it for me. I think KTM have really lead the way in this category. I still chuckle when reviewers describe them as 'beginner bikes'.
@@robertmason2311 thanks for that. I've been thinking if this is a beginner's bike I must be a very ordinary motorcycle rider. Appreciate your comment a lot. Enjoy your bike. I nearly bought your bike but I went for the wider seat . Keep well from downunder.
Solid video. Love the back and forth with camera angles and location changes with the commentary flowing smoothly throughout. On the topic itself... I mostly agree. That's why I have a Bonnie... Two clocks, abs, traction control, and not much else.
I love my Bonnie, doing all my own maintenance since finding the three dealerships in WI know less than I do. Want techie crap stay home on your couch I say. Now keeping a deer or an inattentive driver from hitting you, that would be cool. Rubber side down.
Your Bonneville is not simple by any means way shape or form. It is loaded with a lot of products from head to tail plus it steals the name from a classic to sell Taiwanese junk
Thanks Spite! I’m with you. Like a lot of people, one of the reasons I ride is to escape the technology so prominent in the rest of my life. Wish we had more options for premium motorcycles without all the gizmos.
From personal experience, this message is so true. I find I enjoy my motorcycles when I do not have to think about messing with it. Just the high revving strait lines and twisties.
I totally agree with you, Spite. Additional electronic gizmos is just a way which manufacturers use to bring "improved" bikes out and ask for higher prices
Of course it is. Number 1 is making money. Bmw still holding out on backlite switches. Honda and suzuki still not giving cruise control. T7 now has phone connectivity. You don't have to use it.
I bought a 2006 Katana 750 for 1500$ 3 years ago just to get back on the road. I had previously owned about 20 motorcycles and felt like I was making a huge compromise with the Katana but I didn't feel like dumping a bunch of money on a motorcycle anymore. Turns out this is one of my favorite motorcycles even though there's absolutely NOTHING special about it. However, it does everything just well enough that I don't feel like I need anything else. It has made me be able to enjoy the pure experience of motorcycling without any of the dumb stuff like the ego stroking of having the newest bike or the reckless behavior that often comes with massive horsepower. And to top it off it cost me almost nothing and has been reliable AF.
I absolutely love all the electronic features on my Tuono, which help keep me out of trouble. I also enjoy switching back to my '04 Ducati 999, with none of the bells and whistles, to just have fun old-school style. I think once you go over 125 or 130 hp the electronics start to make a lot of sense.
for me, Electronics only makes sense if u want to be street hooligan (at the same time, it seriously risks my life and others' lives). 95% us do not have a chance to go to track. I spend 99.9% of the time on normal road. Any big power and high speed will be serious risk. That is why I go with dirtbike where the fun is all about acceleration, nimble under 100 kph. I was nearly dead 2 times in my life on street at high speed. That is enough for me and my family. No matter how skillful your are on motor, just 1 idiot on street will kill you
I agree with you, but where will 99% of people use all that power? 130hp, 160hp, 200hp? Speeds above 300 km/h? Unless we all live in Germany and have the Nurburgring as our backyard or the Autobahns with no speed limits like our common roads, it's still a lot of power and putting a lot of people at risk even on the most technological bike doesn't eliminate rider error. And let's be honest, almost none of these people who have these super bikes even take a sport riding course. The vast majority just want to install a noisy exhaust and run on public roads making a mess.
@@MrLucasJupetipe I live in Central Nevada pretty much in the middle of nowhere. I'm 3 hours from the nearest traffic signal and there are straight stretches of road here that are more than 20 miles long. It's easy to use high powered bikes here without endangering anyone. I'm thinking about moving to Arkansas, which has tight twisty roads, and I'll probably end up going down to a 660 or similar. I agree that people should pursue training.
@@patrolduty8715 The electronics are mostly there for safety reasons. They can prevent unintentional wheelies, looping the bike out from under the rider, breaking traction coming out of a corner, losing control on wet roads, etc... I love riding my dirt bike too (KTM 530-EXCr) but it's also really powerful and doesn't have any of those electronic features.
@@Claimjumper55 I see your points. I also appreciate safety features of modern bikes. I just dont want to see many people being too confident with their big bikes because of electronics then underestimate hidden risks on the road when they go above 100kph in city. When a random car open their door, random kid suddenly appear in front of our faces from no where, electronics feature will hardly be able to save us. I protect myself by using the low top speed dirtbikes so I will not have a chance to release my inner racing desire :D
Actually, I almost resent the number of choices given to me on my Ducati X Diavel and Triumph R3. You are so right! For the way I ride and daresay, almost everyone I know rides, these controls are superfluous and I enjoyed my old 5 speed dinosaurs with no cruise control, traction control, wheelie control and not having to know my instantaneous MPG at least as much as any of the "modern" machines I have now. The one area in which I may disagree is the suspension improvements which I have found to make a radical difference in both enjoyment and safety.
Good point. I ride a 35 year old Lowrider Sport (FXRS-SP), it has modern suspension, a bigger carb, nice free breathing exhaust, and a cam. It is a lot of fun to ride. Traction control is my right hand on the throttle, and not locking up the brakes is call modulating the brake leavers. I ride with some modern bike riders, they are a bit careless in corners because of there traction control and ABS, they have not learnt how to ride properly, and I can still be faster than them in the twisties.
I feel you on this. Out of all the bikes I have ridden, I still come back to my good ol DRZ-400. So simple, so reliable, 22 years old?? I just bought another DRZ-400 in fact, and as I am tearing it apart to rebuild it I realize that "it just works." It is simple and FUN! In my opinion, we have entered somewhat of a motorcycle "cold war" where companies are trying to one-up each other in any way possible, and implementing technology that will undoubtedly never be used. Yet, it enables them to charge even more for their motorcycles and make them seem more appealing. Even when I had my ZX-10R I would turn all the tech OFF because I enjoy a more raw riding experience. Isn't that what motorcycling is about at the end of the day anyway? A raw connection between man, machine, and the tarmac? That is the part I enjoy. For now, I'll stick to my DRZ-400, Sportster 1200, and GSXR 600, all of which are from years that have quite literally zero rider aids. The way I like it!
I have a DR-650. Same thing. It's dirt simple to work on and super reliable. I've seen 40 year old XR's that looked like it went through "hell and back" held together with stick welds and zip ties but it still ran
Totally get what you mean about the DRZ 400. I've had mine about a year and have already felt the need to upgrade but instead of getting rid of it I just need an adventure tourer. I'll keep the DRZ I could throw it on the back of my pickup truck and go anywhere with it.
@@chrishart8548 I flashed the ECU to disable the ABS, turned off the traction control, and left the power mode in full power all the time for the most direct feel of the bike.
The veterans have watched the electronic invasion of bikes with dismay. This is why one veteran (moi) stays with his 1960s Norton 650ss. I prefer amazing roadholding to distracting electronic interference. More electronics=weaker riders.
EFI, ABS, and cruise control are about the only modern features I really love. Traction control is a big deal for some bikes, too. All that other stuff is neat, but it's ultimately just gimmicky doodads meant to separate dollars from wallets.
When I was a teenager, 100 HP where a top powered bike. I still think that way. I have a Z900RS, that's a fast bike for me. The Kawasaki has traction control and ABS, I think that is a good idea for a bike with that much power. My daily driver / commutor is a SV 650. Never rolled backwards going up any hill either with that thing.
100% agree, I have a z900 2022 and this is the first traction control bike and I love having it. I feel like paying a ton more for fancy stuff isn't really a good idea but traction control is a great feature to pay more for.
My dd is a 02 r1 tuned to about 170hp no tcs/abs, imo you don't need all that with stuff less than a liter bike, I also got a 81 kz750 with about 70hp, and ive tried bikes with tcs/abs and it's always proved a hindrance to my ride with the bike, but i also dont have experience with anything 200+ so I cant speak on tcs/abs there lol
Mate, in my life I have owned a plethora of bikes of different engine displacement and I have never been happier than riding my current bike - a '08 Honda NT 700. No electronics, no fancy riding modes, nothing at all. Just the mandatory ABS, linked brakes and that's it! Simple and honest machine. No need for more. If I ever consider changing it, I'd go for a RE Interceptor. Or even a 350 Classic. That's what I like - simple motorcycling. Back to basics. Cheers for the great video. Keep up the good work!
One of the reasons why I got an older bike as a first timer! '03 R6. I feel that if I can't control a bike (or more accurately, myself) without fancy electronics, I shouldn't be riding. More amazing content, Spite! Keep it up, friend
I've owned a cbr250r, grom, fz6, zuma50, derbi50, rv250, majesty400, silverwing600, versys650, drz400s, fjr1300, fly150 and ridden countless other bikes both faster and slower. Once I felt supersport speed or tapped out on the fz6 at 140mph, I came to learn that low speed torque in a frame one can throw comfortably trumps high flying HP 99% of the time. Though my fjr can go 150mph, I'm most happy touring at a constant speed or commuting through inconsistently dense traffic from 40-80mph. With recognition of the speed I can go, I'm happy feeling the wind while riding a hair above speed of traffic. Be safe and explore your preference
Finally! Been waiting for a video likes this for ages. Bikes became so good by the mid-00s that everything that came after it just offered luxury. No real advancements anymore. You don‘t need to spend more than 3k for a great bike, if you don‘t care what it looks like and know your shit about it. Ofc a new one will be nicer and neater and a safer option, but if you‘re low on money, you can still find amazing bikes to have great times with if you do your homework.
No real advancements... in powertrains. Everything else has had millions and billions of dollars thrown into it. Why not powertrains? Because globalist thugs and regulations have made it basically unprofitable to do it anymore.
there are massive advancements with the newer bikes. they get better and better each year. people who complain are the people who don't have the balls in the first place to ride the thing
@@rampage3337 "massive advancements" "people who don't have the balls in the first place" Oh come on. Since you jumped on the criticism tell-off bandwagon, please name these MASSIVE advancements by name and explain how they make someone's testicles increase size, how they make riding so much more challenging.
Just got back from a great time on my MT07 on some nice curvy back roads. 50 degrees and I was just nailing it. Did a couple of wheelies and attacked some nice curves. Hit 100 on the straights. Just a great time. Love this bike.
Damn that 50 degrees must’ve felt like below freezing at 100 mph 😮. Those are nice bikes, my 99 sv650 feels like a mini bike compared to the misses fz07 🙄🧐🤣
Well I started on a used Honda 360T back in the day at 15 yrs. old. Later I bought a Honda Hawk 400 at 17 yrs old. Eventually I bought a 1997 Kawasaki ZX7R and thought I had arrived! Lol. Then there was the whole Harley experience with a 2007 Wide Glide. Great cruiser! Finally at 58 years old I decided I wanted a sportbike again so I looked at them all. I came to the same conclusion as you. A current year model liter bike was just more than I needed and could realistically use on a daily basis. Plus at minimum another 4 to 6 grand more. I chose the exact and perfect bike for me... The 2022 GSXR 750. Its the Unicorn bike for the ages.. Zero rider aids. No traction control, no wheelie control, no ABS, no quick shifter. Just rider mode A and B. A is full power, B is less power, more suited to maybe rain or heavy traffic. I grew up never having aids to keep me out of trouble. It made me as the rider have to use my brain and skills learned to manage and maneuver my bike safely. Call me an old timer, but my GSXR has plenty of power, plenty of top speed and handles anything I will put in its path, be it street, track, or mountain roads. My modifications have up its game as well. Just might surprise some of you liter bike monsters! But, to each his or her own and your decision about what to ride is just fine by me. As long as your happy with your choice then do enjoy!
My most recent purchases were end of the line (at least here in NZ) Suzuki DRs, DR650 for fishing, exploring etc, DRZ400SM for hoon stuff. I purposely dodged EFI, ABS etc, on these ones for simplicity of upkeep. Basically anything new I buy in the future here in NZ will have all that jazz, so I rushed out and got the last of the old guard that I liked while I could, literally the last shipment of DR650s and DRZ400SM to be sent to here. I feel very lucky to have them both.
Great topic and you are spot on. I've ridden mostly Harleys pre 1988 for the last 30 or so years. A few years ago I wanted to do more long distance 2-up with maybe 10% dirt road travelling and wanted shaft drive. The GS BMW was in that range but all the adjust-forever-gadgetry turned me off it. I ended up with a 2012 VFR 1200X Crosstourer with shaft drive, and for the first time I had a fuel gauge. Traction on or off, ABS always on, and that's it. With around 130hp and same in NM of torque you can pass anything quickly 2-up with luggage and cruise along at the speed limit with an Atlas fitted. For me that is what riding is all about, not gadgets like a Jetliner doing it for you. In the future there will be a whole bunch of tech-filled bikes and cars needing all that stuff repaired at I'm guessing big cost. Liked and Subscribed. Sydney Australia.
From someone that rides to work every day the only tech I'm interested in are comfortable ones like heated grips, abs, CC or anything that aids me in being safe with all these crazy car drivers around. 😅
@@stubbingtonmarigold3032 yes, that's why riders wear helmets and other gear, and why car drivers wear seat belts. And, as motorcycling is inherently more dangerous than driving a car, any tech that helps you better focus on your riding and what's going on around you is a good thing.
Why i love traction control I ride in pretty much any weather (got caught in some snow flurries even last year) so traction control even on a 650 came in handy, even in the rain it helps.
I have a Tiger 900 RP. I live in an area with about as many dirt tracks/roads as paved roads (very rural) and I use the rider modes all the time. The Pro mode turns ABS and TC off for old-school fun. I love the quick shifter because I can play with it without having to think about rev-matching and it's surprisingly effective off-road. I don't use the navigation, camera, cruise control, or music features. There is a point where there are too many electronics on a motorcycle but it's a personal limit. The Tiger lets me choose what to use and I really like that.
Spite. You hit the nail on the head, one of the most engaging bikes I’ve ridden lately is the RE 650 Interceptor and of all the bikes I own my DR 650 is one of my favorites.
The most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle was a friend's old school Harley knucklehead race bike. Kick start only, barely any suspension, no gauges. All it did is go and stop, and it didn't even do those very well. But it's the most connected to a machine that I've ever felt. I understand why nobody makes bikes like that anymore, but from an emotional perspective it's what every motorcycle should hope to be.
I actually think the tech on something like my Tuono 660 Factory is worthwhile if... If you are going to take it to a track and use the tech to teach you the bike's (and your) limits of grip. Which, one day soon, I plan to do... Did I like having the ability to dial down the bike with all the electronics on while I was learning it? Absolutely. Having all the tech gave me a sense of safety. It only cost a few hundred more than a base Tuono 660 that comes without an IMU and a quick shifter, so it definitely felt like the better purchase. Would I miss it all if my bike didn't have it? Nah... I don't think so. As usual, great video. Keep going, sir.
I've never had abs and tc, don't feel like I need them its been 16 years. I love the pure experience of riding, I started on a ninja 250 then slowly progressed over the years, ride a 07 zx14 now with no aids. Its undeniably helpful for a lot of riders, I'm old school I guess, I prefer analog gauges over a fancy tablet looking thing on modern bikes
100%! I’ve always felt that for the street, 100bhp is the sweet spot. It’s not that I don’t like all the electronic adjustment possibilities, I’m more of a set it and forget it rider. So I’m fine with manual adjustment. Great video!
I think 80 to 100HP is definitely the sweet band depending on the weight of the bike and the weight of the rider. 80HP is going to feel a lot faster for somebody that weighs 160lbs vs somebody that weighs close to 250lbs. Where 100hp would be better for somebody weighing 240lbs or more. One size does not fit all. Which would actually be a good topic for one if Spites videos.
My first bike is the Continental GT 650. It has ABS, wet clutch, and a digital trip odometer. Everything I need to enjoy learning how to ride (and look good doing it, not going to lie), and nothing I don’t. I can focus on the experience and not need to fight the controls or the dashboard. I’d like to move up to something that is comfortable for putting multi-day trip kinds of miles on, but I’m not quite there yet.
Great job! I have a BMW S1000R which has lots of technology. Unless it's raining I keep it in Dynamic mode, and rarely change any of the other settings on the street. I weigh 215 pounds and it will do 83 in first gear so there's no way to get anywhere near its limits on the street. In other words, you are right on all accounts!
I agree 100%. The whole reason I bought my Tenere was the lack of all the electronics. Sure, it's not the fastest or best bike out there, but it's perfect for me.
100% on this-- 35 year old rider here so grew up with the mid 00s sports bikes without all the tech and then came into my own with the 2010s tech where trac control and abs gadgets started becoming standardized so I'm certainly not longing for the past when I give an assessment that too much tech takes away from the fun of riding but it does... I run my newer bikes on the lowest trac control settings and also own an 07 Gixxer600 and those 00s sport bikes are still amazingly fun for the $ and offer a riding exp of the bike does what it you tell it to do. People knock that the modern Gixxer600 and 750 comes with no tech and gadgets and from my perspective it's great because they're offering a unique platform and exp and you actually have to learn how to ride those bikes and not rely on electronics. The electronics in the modern super liter bikes are necessary because the bikes are simply too powerful. Sweet spot of horsepower for a fun fast bike IMO is 100-150 ish and then crazy 215 HP liter bikes are uncontrollable without aids unless you're a professional racer. I'm saying that as someone who is in group A at the track.... Carbeurators? Hell no. Trac control and abs is good just as a safety precaution on lower settings in case gravel or wet.... beyond that just give me a fun bike to rip around on that responds to my commands lol
So glad to see your channel doing so well! I've always been conflicted about Harley, but it is the mechanical simplicity that makes them so appealing. Give me analog clocks and a cable throttle any day.
Harleys aren't mechanically simple anymore. They have EFI, ABS, throttle by wire, all kinds of computerized trash. And they no longer sound or feel liken Harleys.
IMO it really depends on the bike. Mine would be almost unridable in anything other than perfect weather if it weren't for TC. Most folks who've owned a bike with it can point to a time ABS has saved their bacon. Heated grips greatly expand the weather envelope I'm willing to ride in. CC's pretty great, but like Spite said, it doesn't really need to be electronic and expensive. On something like a Gold Wing, I want all the tech. Give me a sat nav screen and Android Auto and anything else they can think to stick on. It just fits the bike's character and use. Of course, that's not the case for every machine.
I think it's what kind of tech. Even people who say they don't want tech still want abs, traction control, and IMUs (for lean angle abs and what not), it's just all the other stuff (quick shifter, tft dashes) that they could do without
Great video!!! Your point of view is spot on. Technology can be absolutely awesome, but it's nowhere near necessary. Tech can be great for safety, but sometimes on the flipside, it can also become a dangerous distraction too. And for me, there's something about the charm of a simple no frills bike. I like tech, but I still find more comfort in simplicity. Some of these tech advances are so complex, that most people who have it don't truly know what it is, or how to use it. I would fit right into that category on a lot of that tech. And I believe that we're honest with ourselves, then most of us would fit in that bracket. Tech is awesome in bikes, but not necessarily important as a lot of people deem it to be. It's like anything else when it comes to motorcycling or anything for that matter... it's about what the rider likes and wants. I love the fact that you brought up a point that most people know, but they won't share. Thanks again. Stay safe, and enjoy the ride
Again the wisdom of Spike. I bought a Kawasaki z 400 2022 for my grandson whom joined the Air Force. He didn't want it because it was to slow. So i added all the Ninja racing items. He still doesn't want it. He wants a Kawasaki H2 like Top Gun. All the military guys are buying it. He can buy it himself. I have three other grandson, so we'll see what happens in the future. Your right about the newer bikes. I'm 70 yr old yooper & buying a Yamaha xj750 1982 just like my first bike a Yamaha Special 400 1982. Saving a ton of money & more power. Your right on as usual. Still waiting for you to check out a Kawasaki dirt bike with a front ski and rear snow track? Happy New year!
Great vid as usual. Totally agree, get back to basics. Make a range of bikes with only abs. Then add on what the customer wants. Heated grips etc etc. This will then bring down the cost. I'm going to sell my 900 tiger for a trident or 660 sport. Well done triumph, your going in the right direction. Less is more. Listen to people like you and neevsy from MSN in UK. Rick. NZ.
This is why I bought my 18 Triumph Speedmaster. It has about 77hp and 77 Tq nothing crazy that needs a bunch of modes. It does have rain mode but it’s very slight in any difference. ABS is about the most advanced thing on it, that and CC. I love the bike bc it’s pure and simple fun. Great video as always!!!
I would have to say that features that improve safety are always welcome things like traction control and ABS. I heard some people complaining about those but those features only kick in when you are doing something what you aren't supposed to be doing unless you off road. If you get in a unexpected situation where you panic or do something wrong than it's nice that there is something to helps you with your mistake and prevent you from getting hurt.
Yeah but other than abs (optionally corner abs) and traction control, what else would you need the rest for? Slide control, wheelie control all that nonsense, if you need that you shouldn't be on the road imo.
@@jimmyneutron5679 on track, but not on the road (not so far that it should matter at least). But generally spoken your abs only slaps on when it senses that your tire is slipping, riding fast pace and having that is no bueno on the streets. Rather work on better entry speed or smoother braking in general at that point.
What all that traction control and ABS does is a substitute for rider skill. With all those gizmos the rider will never learn what's required to keep the bike under control. Put him on an older bike and they could get themselves into trouble pretty quickly. Some bikes now come with adaptive braking. What could possibly go wrong? 🤣
They definitely exist for a reason and are useful to many, especially novice riders. One of my bikes doesn't have any rider aids and it's an invaluable tool that teaches you how to handle things like gravel and rain, and to think more about how you enter certain situations, as well as develop a better connection with the bike in terms of your input and how the bike responds.
Love this video. I keep trying to find the perfect balance of a nimble chassis without power overkill. I have loved my little Suzuki TU250X, owned Hondas and Ducatis since, but I just want that simple bike experience with a larger hit of power in a retro package. The hunt continues, but I am glad to know I am not the only one who loves keeping it simple.
You probably know of them already, but a nice retro bike with a nice amount of power would be the royal Enfield 650s or the Kawasaki w800, they both got about 47 horsepower, most tech either of them have would be abs
@@ArchieKeen1 Neither of those bikes have a nice amount of power. The power/weight sweet spot is like 400-450 pounds with 75-150 horsepower. Anything beyond that gets ridiculous and anything below it gets a bit weak. 150 is obv really on the high end too and only exp riders can use it well at the track or twisty--- 75 like the humble and personality loaded SV650 every level can have a lot of fun on.
@@englishsteel-nz6im I ride a w800, I think it has a “nice” amount of power, it gets up to the speed limits in a swift but smooth manner, it’s sits at 70mph just fine which is as fast as it can legally go on the road, big power or breaking speed limits doesn’t equal fun to me,
Wait for the Honda hornet to come out in a retro skin, an xsr900, or a moto guzzi v7 (the newer one has 65 horsepower!). Or just get a triumph speed twin, I love mine.
@@ArchieKeen1 don't have to be obliterating speed limits to be having a blast in the twisty roads w/say..... the sv650 example I listed. Or occasionally a track day or...
I gave my Honda Shadow VT750C to my daughter for her first bike (she loves it, btw) after I bought a VTX 1800. While I love my VTX, the Shadow is more fun to ride in and around town, and I prefer to ride it, unless I have to actually go someplace, then the VTX is way better. Something about being able to pin the throttle without dying and just ripping around town is unbeatable happiness.
I'm getting fed up with modern technology. It's just more to go wrong. I grew up with Carburetors, Crossply tyres, no ABS, no Traction control, sweep mechanical dials etc. OK Carbs are a pain unless you know what you're doing. What you do need though is decent suspension front and rear. One of my bikes has just ABS the other ABS and TCS (on or off), no modes, no connectivity. Now, I tend to ride twisty, very technical roads which I've never seen before, I don't want to be distracted by tech. If you're commuting, which I no longer do, then a rain mode may be advantageous. Just yesterday I went to look at a Royal Enfield Classic 500 EFi. I popped into the Suzuki and Honda dealers and wasn't impressed.
Had a 1999mod CBR600F4, loved it to bits. "Upgraded" to a Yamaha Dragstar/V-star 1100 with 40 less ponies, more weight, worse brakes, and all the dad-bike chrome you could ever wish for. The only piece of tech on either of those bikes is a phone mount and 12v charger, and that is all I really want. I wouldn't say no to cruise control for my long trips, but even that isn't really needed.
as a new rider this may obviously change in the future but I see vehicles as tools. I really have no desire to go super fast. I just want a way to get from point a to point b. The fact that it's fun is just icing on the cake. I drive a boring kia as a car which i bought because it was cheap and reliable. The only tech I wish they would slap on bikes is cruise control. I really enjoy the little 300nk I ride and it does have a TFT and 2 laughably nonexistent "modes" which make no real difference except changing how the dash looks. The way I see it you have a couple different categories of tech...you have performance tech, convenience tech, and comfort tech. I think most people enjoy convenience tech the most, stuff like cruise control. Although as a new rider I do really appreciate the slipper clutch on the cfmoto because lets face it...ive screwed up a downshift or 2 already and it's forgiving enough to handle the mistake while still letting me know i made it. Stuff like that really helps. That could kinda be classified as convenience or performance tech (along with adjustable power modes). Comfort tech like heated grips etc are sorta for the people who would buy a lexus instead of a toyota...it's cool but if it raises the price of the bike too much I would rather not have it. Ultimately if you price out your buyers, you are not going to do well. Tech is cool but it should be strategically added so that it doesnt drive costs way too high. Tech creep has already absolutely driven the price of new cars through the roof. I do not want to see that in motorcycles.
I'm in my mid 50s and on my 5th motorcycle, a BMW R1250RS. I'm also a super nerd who's worked in IT for most of my life. I LOVE the tech and honestly wouldn't have bought this bike without it. Lean-sensitive ABS, partially linked brakes, full electronic suspension with auto load leveling, hill start and stop assist, quick shifter, heated grips, tire pressure monitoring, a phone app that puts nav info onto the bike's TFT, route mapping of every ride, etc. Do I NEED any of these things? No. I don't need a bike, either. But I want and very much enjoy these things, and most make me if not more safe, definitely more comfortable.
I totally agree. That’s why I have a Moto Guzzi v7 III Stone. It is elegant in its simplicity. It strips away all the BS and leaves just me, the machine, and the road. Old skool in the best kind of way.
I went from a 86 Yamaha Fazer, 30 years later, 2004 Yamaha V-Max. I now have a 2016 BMW S1000XR. I love the quick shifter, cruise control, heated grips and the different power settings. I don’t use them all to their potential but once I awhile I try. Had a throttle lock on the V-Max but nothing beats cruise control.
This is an absolute breath of fresh air! My favourite bike ever for just get on and go appeal is my 1970 BSA B25. Kick start, a speedo, a horn, a 3 position toggle, and an oil pressure warning light. I hate looking at clutter on a bike! Thanks mate!
I agree with everything you have said - when I ride a new style bike the quickshifter keeps making shifts i didn't want, or I pulled the clutch when not needed. As a Ducati rider for years, I prefer being able to loft the front whenever with a flick of the wrist...and my throttle feel is adequate traction control for my non-trackday riding. I am now going down the retro-style bike route as I grew tired of riding a bike that went 100 mph in 1st gear... fastter than any speed limits in the country...with 5 more gears in the box. I think a Speed Twin is really all the motorcycle most people would ever need. And it still looks like a motorcycle.
When it comes to riding bikes and the enjoyment factor less is more. I have a 2004 Honda 600RR which is the 2nd year of the 1st generation of the RR super sport bike. It has nothing in the way of TC, ABS, TBW, or selectable ride modes. It doesn't even have a gear indicator or USD forks. And that's exactly what I love about it! I put a Leo Vince pipe on, flipped the shift lever to GP shift, installed a PC3, and had custom work done to the forks. I've ridden it on the streets and tracks ever since then and it's more bike then I can ride. The thing about riding liter bikes is they come at a price. They are much less forgiving when making a mistake. So you're less likely to really ride to the limits out of some level of fear. A smaller bike really equates to less fear of making a mistake so you wind up riding it harder. Which means you learn how to ride faster on a smaller bike. Unfortunately, most of the new riders want to buy liter bikes and then go race them on the interstates. Nothing good will come of that practice. Stick to the nice country roads and stop causing problems for the community.
My 2021 Ninja ZX-6R has two power modes (low & full); three traction control modes; a quick shifter (up only) and that’s about it. Just the right amount of tech for me 👌. It’s got about 125 HP so, plenty of power and the price is right at around $11K.
I couldn't agree more. I'm riding a 2021 Triumph Tiger 900 GT Pro. It's power is right in the sweet spot. It allows me the clearance and adjustable suspension for my occasional fire road or jeep trail, but I set the preload and dampening for the street, put it in street mode and just leave it there for 99.9% of my riding. About the only thing I do with the joystick is change tracks on spotify.
My own opinion...I ride to get away from tech.,.I love my Guzzi v7II. Analog tach and speedometer. It does have traction control and ABS but its not a very powerful bike so does not really need it. Also the throttle is a cable, not by wire, Iove the raw feel of it. I recently looked at buying a new bike and was turned off by all the tech. To each his own though. I just hope some manufacturers keep a low tech option around...
I love my 07 speed triple exactly because it doesn't have any tech. Wire throttle and no abs. Simple and easy to work on, and I've been lucky electronically so it's been reliable as all hell.
Lost my 2013 Mazda3 Hatch a little over a year ago and one of the things that I miss the most was the complete lack of features most people seem to demand. No BSM, LKA, AEB, ACC... hell, it didn't even have a screen on the stereo. Bluetooth, AC, cruise control, electric windows, and an absolutely fantastic 6-speed manual are about all I really want. Replaced it with a 2020 Tacoma, and every one of those new features annoyed the hell out of me until I sold it and went motorcycle-only when I moved to HI.
All the bikes I have ever owned were under a 50 hp and I had a blast riding every one of them. From 2 175 cc 1 250 1 230L 1 DRZ400 1 NC700X and now a CRF300L Rally.
Good point. I went from 750-GSXR, to 636 ZX6R, to BMW R NineT, so R1250GS, and back to BMW R NineT, the heavy, ~110hp low tech bike is my favorite. I’ve also become anti-four cylinder, as the low-end grunt of a 1,200 twin is my favorite (triumph, bmw..etc)
Back before many here were born, I designed some of the early microprocessor based control, monitoring and test equipment. After making some "brilliant solutions" for "problems that didn't exist," there was something important I discovered back then. It was so important I even made it one of my favorite "Old Sayings." High technology can be good, but APPROPRIATE technology is always better. For me, cable throttles and a cable clutch is appropriate for my bike, but I don't want to go back to drum brakes operated by cable or rods, I don't want to go back to carburetors and I don't want to go back to brakes that lock up if I panic.
Primary bike - 2015 BMW K1600 all bells and whistles, too much power, too many electronics SOOOO much fun. Secondary bike - 1982 Honda VF750SC, not much power, no bells and whistles (drum rear brake), no electronics SOOOO much fun.....
Low tech is the way to go, with the exception of things like traction control and abs. I've really come to appreciate my CB650r for this exact reason, it has enough to keep me shiny side up and that's it.
I agree. I concur. Too much tech is worthless. In fact, any of this new tech is worthless. Do you need a "rain mode" instead of doing the same thing, with your brain and body, that the "rain mode" tells you to do. My favorite motorcycle was a 1978 Yamaha 1100E. Straight seat, tubeless tires, shaft drive, 2 clocks, fuel gauge and zip else. Rock on! I'm in my eighth decade now. Still wanting to ride.
As a life long motorcyclist who raced off road for 36 years, I like to ride my bike, not let it decide what to do. Traction control, ABS, linked brakes..........SUCK. I control all that myself and expect the bike to react accordingly. My latest Aprilia has waaaaaay too much crap on it. I often hit my mode switch instead of my signal switch and then when I look at my odo, it has some sort of nonsense number because it's in some stupid mode I don't need and I have made a turn with no signal. etc, etc.......🤬I like to slide the bike, wheelie, etc.... My adventure bike (DR650) has a speedo , odo, and resetable trip meter. That's all I need, thank you. Plus, as a motorcycle mechanic, I often have to repair bikes that dealerships can't because they are too complicated for the kids working there to repair. I worked in Honda dealerships most of my life. When Honda introduced the 1800 Gold Wing about two years later we got an update on what Honda had discovered the ECM could do that they didn't know it could. Why would you put something on a motorcycle that you didn't even understand and then sell it to the public!!! My current dirt bike is a KTM E. Yes it's an advanced electric motorcycle, but it is as simple as it gets when riding. It actually lets me control it! I love it!
Great content! This was a long awaited topic. I just bought a almost new 2016 Gsxs1000 and I also have a 2021 Sv650. The reason for this is exactly the topic of the video. The Sv has ABS and that’s that, and the gsxs has 3 modes and ABS. I would never need or want more. And I also don’t like the tablet dashboard of modern bikes. My sv and gsxs have digital monochrome display and it’s just perfect 👌
After 17 years of old bikes, riding and repairing other peoples problems; I bit the bullet and bought a modern tech heavy machine. In 2018 I bought a left-over 2017 Aprilia Tuono V4rr. Loved it, but most of the bells and whistles were nice, they weren't necessary. I rode it for 20,000 km, trouble free (aside from basic maintenance, a valve adjustment, and a few rear tires...) Sold it in the middle of Covid. Got into small displacement dual sports, as I wasn't doing distance riding. I wanted another sportbike. Bought a cosmetically challenged, and maintenance requiring 2007 GSXR600. I'm back on a cost effective older bike, and I couldn't be happier. Its a bike I can live without. It gets stolen, or crashed? shitty, but not as bad as losing a $15,000 bike... Yeah, cruise control was nice. ABS is something I may miss, but I never relied on it anyways.
One of those high-end car technologies that trickled down to regular cars is the backup camera. I remember when it was such a big deal to have one. Dealers exploited it as a selling point as well. Nowadays it's so basic we take it for granted. I drove a friend's older car recently with no backup camera and it felt like I was reversing blind-folded.
Great video Spite. Ive been riding for 12 years from 125cc to 1300cc. None of my bikes have ever had any fancy rider modes, traction control or ABS! Ive save so many thousands by buying slightly older bikes that still have plenty of power for the street and look nice. What more do you need!
I've got the lower tech 2017 Concours 17 and I'm happy. The main features I like are heated grips, traction control, and ABS. For that the bike doesn't have, I can get with a Cardo headset and use a smartphone or maybe later, get a GPS if I'm doing distance riding.
You got a point, I've got a 2013 690 SMC-R/EnduroR - No ABS - No Traction Control - Sure It has a couple Fuel Map Modes - But I ride bikes for that raw Man and Machine Connection. I don't want my inputs filtered thru an assist computer.
I'm new ish to riding (8 years) - I appreciate traction control and lean angle ABS but apart from that, basic is great - it's one of the things that appealed to me about my gen 1 MT-10.
I have a Royal Enfield Meteor 350. I've done the tinkering things like cat eliminating exhaust and air filter mods. Added saddle bags. Nothing that it needed, but just wanted to satisfy the tinkering need. And the beauty is that it doesn't break the bank.
Spite, I generally agree with you but believe there is one exception - electronic controls can improve safety. For example, IMU supported ABS and anti-wheelie can save your bacon when you get yourself into a situation that your skills cannot manage,and that is important for newer riders and even for an experienced person stepping up or sideways on a new motorbike. Cruise control and quick-shifter can reduce fatigue. I need all these things less now, and really see the appeal of your new Ducati, but 5 years and 55000km ago I really benefitted from what was then close to leading electrickery on my S1000R. I reckon the trickle down is happening - the GSXS1000 now has about the same level electrickery as my 5 year old S1000R has at a very very good price, the the safety net on things like the z900 are awesome. I think many of the Japanese bikes are hitting that nice mid point of price and safety, and seem happy to let the euros service that “iPhone upgrade” top end of the market. Glad to see your channel continue to thrive too!
I have a 07 Fz1s Yamaha since new, no aides, 150hp 200kg, great bike, more power than needed, I have a 77 Kawasaki z650 with 62hp, and I love it, you can enjoy the basics ,and character of a motorbike, like it use to be.
The biggest bikes I ever rode were a Honda 450 Nighthawk and an FT500 Ascot in the 80s, and most recently, a 300 Rebel (yeah, I'm a Honda guy). These bikes had absolutely nothing in the way of TFT displays or fancy rider modes, and the Ascot and Nighthawk had carbs! I never felt the need for more power on any of them nor did I need a single gizmo. I had a hell of a great time on all of them.
Greetings from the UK. This Summer I traded my 143 bhp 2018 Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX with IMU traction control, power modes etc for a 2020 Honda CB1100RS with zero gizmos, naked, and 54 bhp less. Not only do I prefer the Honda to look at, it's more fun, easier to service & maintain, more comfortable with better mpg and makes me want to ride at safe, sensible speeds. It also attracts more admiring looks and comments than the Kawasaki. Bike manufacturers need to take notice of Royal Enfield's sales success instead of producing more powerful crotch rockets with more expensive electronic wizardry.
I've got a 16' Hypermotard 939. Bike is exactly the same as your 821 minus the displacement bump. I love the simplicity. I agree with your opinion on the irritating menu button layout but ultimately it's miniscule for the experience.
Have to say. A few tech aspects that i just wanna have on my touring bike out of safety aspects and comfort Heated grips, cruise control, cornerning lights, abs, simple traction control, auto blipper+quick shifter and modern bright led lights
I’m an old guy so my opinion doesn’t count. I’ve had a Ducati itch since I was a young guy. I picked up a fairly low mile 2004 Ducati ST4S in 2019. No rider aids. Plenty of beans. Great handling and brakes. I have to adjust my mindset when I ride it as everything happens pretty quickly. I have loved every moment on this bike and hope to never sell it. I’ve done several day rides and I’m doing real touring next month. There’s something about doing a longer trip on a 20 year old motorcycle that appeals to me. No banjos where I’m going. Just wolves. And bears.
I have a 1992 Honda Nighthawk 750, and yesterday i borrowed my father-in-laws KTM 790 Adventure R. It doesnt have many rider aids, but the Traction Control makes me feel that i dont have to put much attention to the throttle when riding, and also on throttle it make the boke wheelie, and that doesn't feel safe, I felt safer with the TC disabled and rear wheel spin. I understand and appreciate front wheel ABS, but i would argue other aids just make you oblivious of what youre doing, and wont let you be a better rider, and even make you a more incompetent vehicle operator.
Do you want all the tech, or do you pine for the days of carburetors and cable throttles?
Personally, give me EFI, cruise control, and ABS. Everything else is optional!
I love fuel injection but that’s about it…most bikes are way too fancy now …and if you need abs you should probably take a rider course 😂
@@uberDoward Heated grips would be the other piece of tech that comes in handy in colder winter climates. Otherwise, you’re spot on.
I have been complaining about this for a long time.
@@bajacore yeah…now that you mentioned it…heated grips are very nice…but I’d rather buy aftermarket for like a 100 bucks over the manufacture option that raises the sticker price 1500 😂
This is exactly why I enjoy my moto guzzi and royal Enfield motorcycles. Less tech bobbles means more focus on riding and less to maintain or break. Simple and solid are the way forward for me.
Agreed.
Absolutely. Why I went guzzi also.
Ditto, except that I don't have a Moto Guzzi.
@@oldgeezerproductions What do you have, OGP?
@@1990-t1j Hi. I had a 2016 Bullet 500 until almost exactly a year ago when it got totaled. I now own a 2022 INT 650 I bought in February and put over 7,000 miles but had to stop because it's just too wet to ride lately. As soon as it dries out, I'll be back on it. I love really simple bikes with basic technology, but I love EFI and anti-lock brakes. The rest of that technology and massive HP overkill they can keep.
As a returning rider in my 50's and a huge Honda fan, I picked up a CB300R and absolutely love it. My Harley friends ask me to slow down in twisties, I'm getting about 110mpg around town, and I'm making a mono wheel trailer for week long camping. It's simple and a blast!
Cb 500 f here and I love it. I get 110 mpg between 35-40 mph. It actually gets better fuel economy than my crf 250l
CB300r here too! Also own a cbr600rr, but prefer the 300 on many occasions
It has nice power to weight ratio
Always been Pro Honda, I have owned a CBR600F3, Fireblade 954rr and the mighty VTR1000SP2.....I have been off 2 wheels for 10 years and I was missing my motorbike days. I decided to get a cheap runner, 2011 CBR250r, I was a wee bit concerned, it would feel like a dinky toy and dull........ I was very surprised that the 250R felt like a real motorbike, and had plenty of personality. Sure, the power and torque ain't much, however, this motorbike delivers me grins and smiles, and for the best part - I don't get into trouble twisting the throttle and going up the gears.......and the fuel economy truly makes me feel like I am riding for free! (particularly when compared to my car!). Because of this - I choose to take the bike in place of the car as much as possible!
Holy crap 110 mpg? Why weren't the climate activists raving about this?
This is exactly why I bought a Royal Enfield.
RE is making impressive, sexy machines that go back to what makes motorcycling fun and easy to get into for sure.
Me too!
There's an after market upgrade for the Interceptor.....hazard lights , tech gone mad ! 😂
Yeah, just bought mine, I love it
Same! My 2020 Continental is great!
Used to ride a 750 on track (at a reasonably fast pace), but there was no way I could ride that bike anywhere near its potential on the road. More recently I got a Svartpilen 401 and I ride it like I stole it. Riding a slow bike fast is way more fun than riding a fast bike slow.
I have heard that saying a lot, and I suppose it makes sense on the twisties, but as a commuter this doesn't hold true in my experience as 80% of my daily ride is freeway. Riding a low displacement bike at WOT the entire time is excessively noisy, introduces a lot of vibration, and leaves you with no extra power to escape a bad situation.
Fair enough, but my little Svart sits at 80/90 easy enough, but then when I do take the bike to work I don't have a long commute.
Is that the Husqvarna. I have the Duke 390 KTM and if you have the Husqvarna I think we have the same engine and yes I agree with you whole heartedly. Its a joy to ride.
@@c.a.marsupial.1282 Yes, Husqvarna Svartpilen 491, sister bike to the Duke 390, which I got to test ride back-to-back with the Svart, both great bikes but the Svart just edged it for me. I think KTM have really lead the way in this category. I still chuckle when reviewers describe them as 'beginner bikes'.
@@robertmason2311 thanks for that. I've been thinking if this is a beginner's bike I must be a very ordinary motorcycle rider. Appreciate your comment a lot. Enjoy your bike. I nearly bought your bike but I went for the wider seat . Keep well from downunder.
Solid video. Love the back and forth with camera angles and location changes with the commentary flowing smoothly throughout. On the topic itself... I mostly agree. That's why I have a Bonnie... Two clocks, abs, traction control, and not much else.
You call that a Triumph? Mine has a Kickstarter! And carburettors. And a small oil leak.
I love my Bonnie, doing all my own maintenance since finding the three dealerships in WI know less than I do. Want techie crap stay home on your couch I say. Now keeping a deer or an inattentive driver from hitting you, that would be cool. Rubber side down.
Your Bonneville is not simple by any means way shape or form. It is loaded with a lot of products from head to tail plus it steals the name from a classic to sell Taiwanese junk
Thanks Spite! I’m with you. Like a lot of people, one of the reasons I ride is to escape the technology so prominent in the rest of my life. Wish we had more options for premium motorcycles without all the gizmos.
Exactly. I love the Indian chief, but can’t stand the ride command display .
Meanwhile motorcycle accidents are at a 10 year low which is nice considering the rise in average horsepower
Cars, too!
Some people like to ride without a helmet, so I guess I understand why some don't want the technology.
From personal experience, this message is so true. I find I enjoy my motorcycles when I do not have to think about messing with it. Just the high revving strait lines and twisties.
I totally agree with you, Spite. Additional electronic gizmos is just a way which manufacturers use to bring "improved" bikes out and ask for higher prices
Of course it is. Number 1 is making money. Bmw still holding out on backlite switches. Honda and suzuki still not giving cruise control. T7 now has phone connectivity. You don't have to use it.
I bought a 2006 Katana 750 for 1500$ 3 years ago just to get back on the road. I had previously owned about 20 motorcycles and felt like I was making a huge compromise with the Katana but I didn't feel like dumping a bunch of money on a motorcycle anymore. Turns out this is one of my favorite motorcycles even though there's absolutely NOTHING special about it. However, it does everything just well enough that I don't feel like I need anything else. It has made me be able to enjoy the pure experience of motorcycling without any of the dumb stuff like the ego stroking of having the newest bike or the reckless behavior that often comes with massive horsepower. And to top it off it cost me almost nothing and has been reliable AF.
Nice bike! Do you still have it?
@@postersm7141 Yessir! Took a nice little ride on it today. Gonna have it for years. :)
I absolutely love all the electronic features on my Tuono, which help keep me out of trouble. I also enjoy switching back to my '04 Ducati 999, with none of the bells and whistles, to just have fun old-school style. I think once you go over 125 or 130 hp the electronics start to make a lot of sense.
for me, Electronics only makes sense if u want to be street hooligan (at the same time, it seriously risks my life and others' lives). 95% us do not have a chance to go to track. I spend 99.9% of the time on normal road. Any big power and high speed will be serious risk. That is why I go with dirtbike where the fun is all about acceleration, nimble under 100 kph. I was nearly dead 2 times in my life on street at high speed. That is enough for me and my family. No matter how skillful your are on motor, just 1 idiot on street will kill you
I agree with you, but where will 99% of people use all that power? 130hp, 160hp, 200hp? Speeds above 300 km/h? Unless we all live in Germany and have the Nurburgring as our backyard or the Autobahns with no speed limits like our common roads, it's still a lot of power and putting a lot of people at risk even on the most technological bike doesn't eliminate rider error.
And let's be honest, almost none of these people who have these super bikes even take a sport riding course. The vast majority just want to install a noisy exhaust and run on public roads making a mess.
@@MrLucasJupetipe I live in Central Nevada pretty much in the middle of nowhere. I'm 3 hours from the nearest traffic signal and there are straight stretches of road here that are more than 20 miles long. It's easy to use high powered bikes here without endangering anyone. I'm thinking about moving to Arkansas, which has tight twisty roads, and I'll probably end up going down to a 660 or similar. I agree that people should pursue training.
@@patrolduty8715 The electronics are mostly there for safety reasons. They can prevent unintentional wheelies, looping the bike out from under the rider, breaking traction coming out of a corner, losing control on wet roads, etc... I love riding my dirt bike too (KTM 530-EXCr) but it's also really powerful and doesn't have any of those electronic features.
@@Claimjumper55 I see your points. I also appreciate safety features of modern bikes. I just dont want to see many people being too confident with their big bikes because of electronics then underestimate hidden risks on the road when they go above 100kph in city. When a random car open their door, random kid suddenly appear in front of our faces from no where, electronics feature will hardly be able to save us. I protect myself by using the low top speed dirtbikes so I will not have a chance to release my inner racing desire :D
Actually, I almost resent the number of choices given to me on my Ducati X Diavel and Triumph R3. You are so right! For the way I ride and daresay, almost everyone I know rides, these controls are superfluous and I enjoyed my old 5 speed dinosaurs with no cruise control, traction control, wheelie control and not having to know my instantaneous MPG at least as much as any of the "modern" machines I have now. The one area in which I may disagree is the suspension improvements which I have found to make a radical difference in both enjoyment and safety.
Some of my buddies wondered why I bought a 20yo HD Dyna. I don't race. I don't do wheelies, I don't split lanes at 100mph. I just enjoy the ride.
Agree 100%.
That's why I bought a Triumph Trident 660 - great value and minimal gizmos 👍
Good point. I ride a 35 year old Lowrider Sport (FXRS-SP), it has modern suspension, a bigger carb, nice free breathing exhaust, and a cam. It is a lot of fun to ride. Traction control is my right hand on the throttle, and not locking up the brakes is call modulating the brake leavers. I ride with some modern bike riders, they are a bit careless in corners because of there traction control and ABS, they have not learnt how to ride properly, and I can still be faster than them in the twisties.
I feel you on this. Out of all the bikes I have ridden, I still come back to my good ol DRZ-400. So simple, so reliable, 22 years old?? I just bought another DRZ-400 in fact, and as I am tearing it apart to rebuild it I realize that "it just works." It is simple and FUN!
In my opinion, we have entered somewhat of a motorcycle "cold war" where companies are trying to one-up each other in any way possible, and implementing technology that will undoubtedly never be used. Yet, it enables them to charge even more for their motorcycles and make them seem more appealing. Even when I had my ZX-10R I would turn all the tech OFF because I enjoy a more raw riding experience. Isn't that what motorcycling is about at the end of the day anyway? A raw connection between man, machine, and the tarmac? That is the part I enjoy.
For now, I'll stick to my DRZ-400, Sportster 1200, and GSXR 600, all of which are from years that have quite literally zero rider aids. The way I like it!
I have a DR-650. Same thing. It's dirt simple to work on and super reliable. I've seen 40 year old XR's that looked like it went through "hell and back" held together with stick welds and zip ties but it still ran
What does turning all the tech off mean. Don't you just mean ignoring or not using it ? I doubt it will let you turn the ABS off.
Totally get what you mean about the DRZ 400. I've had mine about a year and have already felt the need to upgrade but instead of getting rid of it I just need an adventure tourer. I'll keep the DRZ I could throw it on the back of my pickup truck and go anywhere with it.
@@chrishart8548 I flashed the ECU to disable the ABS, turned off the traction control, and left the power mode in full power all the time for the most direct feel of the bike.
@@2WheelPursuit does that effect the insurance if you have a crash and you have disabled the abs .
The veterans have watched the electronic invasion of bikes with dismay. This is why one veteran (moi) stays with his 1960s Norton 650ss. I prefer amazing roadholding to distracting electronic interference. More electronics=weaker riders.
I love my 2015 FZ09 …60k miles …3 valve adjustments,4 batteries and many oil changes but still runs as good as the day it left the showroom floor
I had a 2015 up until this year. Same story. Fun and brilliant bike. Totally reliable.
EFI, ABS, and cruise control are about the only modern features I really love. Traction control is a big deal for some bikes, too. All that other stuff is neat, but it's ultimately just gimmicky doodads meant to separate dollars from wallets.
When I was a teenager, 100 HP where a top powered bike. I still think that way. I have a Z900RS, that's a fast bike for me. The Kawasaki has traction control and ABS, I think that is a good idea for a bike with that much power. My daily driver / commutor is a SV 650. Never rolled backwards going up any hill either with that thing.
100% agree, I have a z900 2022 and this is the first traction control bike and I love having it. I feel like paying a ton more for fancy stuff isn't really a good idea but traction control is a great feature to pay more for.
My Z900 2019 has abs n no tc. Doesnt need it.
@@sugarnads I had a deer running in my way and I'm happy that my panic breaking didn't result in a drop because of a blocking front tire.
@@pablolachmann7044 abs is good. Didnt say u dont need abs. Traction control isnt needed on Z900. The throttle is linear.
My dd is a 02 r1 tuned to about 170hp no tcs/abs, imo you don't need all that with stuff less than a liter bike, I also got a 81 kz750 with about 70hp, and ive tried bikes with tcs/abs and it's always proved a hindrance to my ride with the bike, but i also dont have experience with anything 200+ so I cant speak on tcs/abs there lol
Mate, in my life I have owned a plethora of bikes of different engine displacement and I have never been happier than riding my current bike - a '08 Honda NT 700. No electronics, no fancy riding modes, nothing at all. Just the mandatory ABS, linked brakes and that's it! Simple and honest machine. No need for more. If I ever consider changing it, I'd go for a RE Interceptor. Or even a 350 Classic. That's what I like - simple motorcycling. Back to basics. Cheers for the great video. Keep up the good work!
One of the reasons why I got an older bike as a first timer! '03 R6. I feel that if I can't control a bike (or more accurately, myself) without fancy electronics, I shouldn't be riding.
More amazing content, Spite! Keep it up, friend
I've owned a cbr250r, grom, fz6, zuma50, derbi50, rv250, majesty400, silverwing600, versys650, drz400s, fjr1300, fly150 and ridden countless other bikes both faster and slower.
Once I felt supersport speed or tapped out on the fz6 at 140mph, I came to learn that low speed torque in a frame one can throw comfortably trumps high flying HP 99% of the time.
Though my fjr can go 150mph, I'm most happy touring at a constant speed or commuting through inconsistently dense traffic from 40-80mph. With recognition of the speed I can go, I'm happy feeling the wind while riding a hair above speed of traffic.
Be safe and explore your preference
Finally! Been waiting for a video likes this for ages. Bikes became so good by the mid-00s that everything that came after it just offered luxury. No real advancements anymore. You don‘t need to spend more than 3k for a great bike, if you don‘t care what it looks like and know your shit about it. Ofc a new one will be nicer and neater and a safer option, but if you‘re low on money, you can still find amazing bikes to have great times with if you do your homework.
No real advancements... in powertrains.
Everything else has had millions and billions of dollars thrown into it.
Why not powertrains?
Because globalist thugs and regulations have made it basically unprofitable to do it anymore.
Especially in the Winter - there's so many bargains to be had.
there are massive advancements with the newer bikes. they get better and better each year. people who complain are the people who don't have the balls in the first place to ride the thing
@@rampage3337 yeah well no. That‘s just wrong.
@@rampage3337 "massive advancements"
"people who don't have the balls in the first place"
Oh come on.
Since you jumped on the criticism tell-off bandwagon, please name these MASSIVE advancements by name and explain how they make someone's testicles increase size, how they make riding so much more challenging.
6:30 went from 2023 to 1993 in a second 😂
Just got back from a great time on my MT07 on some nice curvy back roads. 50 degrees and I was just nailing it. Did a couple of wheelies and attacked some nice curves. Hit 100 on the straights. Just a great time. Love this bike.
MT is the perfect street bike imo. It just does what you ask it too without having all fancy gizmos and gadgets
Damn that 50 degrees must’ve felt like below freezing at 100 mph 😮. Those are nice bikes, my 99 sv650 feels like a mini bike compared to the misses fz07 🙄🧐🤣
Well I started on a used Honda 360T back in the day at 15 yrs. old. Later I bought a Honda Hawk 400 at 17 yrs old.
Eventually I bought a 1997 Kawasaki ZX7R and thought I had arrived! Lol.
Then there was the whole Harley experience with a 2007 Wide Glide. Great cruiser! Finally at 58 years old I decided I wanted a sportbike again so I looked at them all. I came to the same conclusion as you. A current year model liter bike was just more than I needed and could realistically use on a daily basis. Plus at minimum another 4 to 6 grand more.
I chose the exact and perfect bike for me... The 2022 GSXR 750. Its the Unicorn bike for the ages.. Zero rider aids. No traction control, no wheelie control, no ABS, no quick shifter. Just rider mode A and B. A is full power, B is less power, more suited to maybe rain or heavy traffic. I grew up never having aids to keep me out of trouble. It made me as the rider have to use my brain and skills learned to manage and maneuver my bike safely. Call me an old timer, but my GSXR has plenty of power, plenty of top speed and handles anything I will put in its path, be it street, track, or mountain roads. My modifications have up its game as well. Just might surprise some of you liter bike monsters! But, to each his or her own and your decision about what to ride is just fine by me. As long as your happy with your choice then do enjoy!
My most recent purchases were end of the line (at least here in NZ) Suzuki DRs,
DR650 for fishing, exploring etc, DRZ400SM for hoon stuff.
I purposely dodged EFI, ABS etc, on these ones for simplicity of upkeep.
Basically anything new I buy in the future here in NZ will have all that jazz, so I rushed out and got the last of the old guard that I liked while I could, literally the last shipment of DR650s and DRZ400SM to be sent to here.
I feel very lucky to have them both.
Yeah 'I like turtles', I have a 2019 DRZ 400SM here in NZ too for the same reasons
Great topic and you are spot on. I've ridden mostly Harleys pre 1988 for the last 30 or so years. A few years ago I wanted to do more long distance 2-up with maybe 10% dirt road travelling and wanted shaft drive. The GS BMW was in that range but all the adjust-forever-gadgetry turned me off it. I ended up with a 2012 VFR 1200X Crosstourer with shaft drive, and for the first time I had a fuel gauge. Traction on or off, ABS always on, and that's it. With around 130hp and same in NM of torque you can pass anything quickly 2-up with luggage and cruise along at the speed limit with an Atlas fitted. For me that is what riding is all about, not gadgets like a Jetliner doing it for you. In the future there will be a whole bunch of tech-filled bikes and cars needing all that stuff repaired at I'm guessing big cost. Liked and Subscribed. Sydney Australia.
From someone that rides to work every day the only tech I'm interested in are comfortable ones like heated grips, abs, CC or anything that aids me in being safe with all these crazy car drivers around. 😅
You are worried about your safety and ride a motorcycle? Lol
@@stubbingtonmarigold3032 yes, that's why riders wear helmets and other gear, and why car drivers wear seat belts. And, as motorcycling is inherently more dangerous than driving a car, any tech that helps you better focus on your riding and what's going on around you is a good thing.
Why i love traction control I ride in pretty much any weather (got caught in some snow flurries even last year) so traction control even on a 650 came in handy, even in the rain it helps.
@@stubbingtonmarigold3032 yes 😅
I have a Tiger 900 RP. I live in an area with about as many dirt tracks/roads as paved roads (very rural) and I use the rider modes all the time. The Pro mode turns ABS and TC off for old-school fun. I love the quick shifter because I can play with it without having to think about rev-matching and it's surprisingly effective off-road. I don't use the navigation, camera, cruise control, or music features. There is a point where there are too many electronics on a motorcycle but it's a personal limit. The Tiger lets me choose what to use and I really like that.
Spite.
You hit the nail on the head, one of the most engaging bikes I’ve ridden lately is the RE 650 Interceptor and of all the bikes I own my DR 650 is one of my favorites.
How did it compare to the big DR?
The most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle was a friend's old school Harley knucklehead race bike. Kick start only, barely any suspension, no gauges. All it did is go and stop, and it didn't even do those very well. But it's the most connected to a machine that I've ever felt. I understand why nobody makes bikes like that anymore, but from an emotional perspective it's what every motorcycle should hope to be.
I actually think the tech on something like my Tuono 660 Factory is worthwhile if... If you are going to take it to a track and use the tech to teach you the bike's (and your) limits of grip. Which, one day soon, I plan to do... Did I like having the ability to dial down the bike with all the electronics on while I was learning it? Absolutely. Having all the tech gave me a sense of safety. It only cost a few hundred more than a base Tuono 660 that comes without an IMU and a quick shifter, so it definitely felt like the better purchase. Would I miss it all if my bike didn't have it? Nah... I don't think so.
As usual, great video. Keep going, sir.
I've never had abs and tc, don't feel like I need them its been 16 years. I love the pure experience of riding, I started on a ninja 250 then slowly progressed over the years, ride a 07 zx14 now with no aids. Its undeniably helpful for a lot of riders, I'm old school I guess, I prefer analog gauges over a fancy tablet looking thing on modern bikes
100%! I’ve always felt that for the street, 100bhp is the sweet spot.
It’s not that I don’t like all the electronic adjustment possibilities, I’m more of a set it and forget it rider. So I’m fine with manual adjustment.
Great video!
I think 80 to 100HP is definitely the sweet band depending on the weight of the bike and the weight of the rider. 80HP is going to feel a lot faster for somebody that weighs 160lbs vs somebody that weighs close to 250lbs. Where 100hp would be better for somebody weighing 240lbs or more. One size does not fit all. Which would actually be a good topic for one if Spites videos.
This is exactly why I am shopping for a used 797+ Ducati.
My first bike is the Continental GT 650. It has ABS, wet clutch, and a digital trip odometer. Everything I need to enjoy learning how to ride (and look good doing it, not going to lie), and nothing I don’t. I can focus on the experience and not need to fight the controls or the dashboard. I’d like to move up to something that is comfortable for putting multi-day trip kinds of miles on, but I’m not quite there yet.
You can do it on the gt
@El-Kwako The Grumpy Duck I think the sport configuration of the GT will make that uncomfortable, at least for me. But good to know it can be done.
@@ajc-ff5cm lol good point. I was picturing the interceptor in my head when i commented
@@ajc-ff5cm i used to tour on a GSXR400 when i was a young bloke. God i loved that bike.
Great job! I have a BMW S1000R which has lots of technology. Unless it's raining I keep it in Dynamic mode, and rarely change any of the other settings on the street. I weigh 215 pounds and it will do 83 in first gear so there's no way to get anywhere near its limits on the street. In other words, you are right on all accounts!
I agree 100%. The whole reason I bought my Tenere was the lack of all the electronics. Sure, it's not the fastest or best bike out there, but it's perfect for me.
100% on this-- 35 year old rider here so grew up with the mid 00s sports bikes without all the tech and then came into my own with the 2010s tech where trac control and abs gadgets started becoming standardized so I'm certainly not longing for the past when I give an assessment that too much tech takes away from the fun of riding but it does...
I run my newer bikes on the lowest trac control settings and also own an 07 Gixxer600 and those 00s sport bikes are still amazingly fun for the $ and offer a riding exp of the bike does what it you tell it to do. People knock that the modern Gixxer600 and 750 comes with no tech and gadgets and from my perspective it's great because they're offering a unique platform and exp and you actually have to learn how to ride those bikes and not rely on electronics.
The electronics in the modern super liter bikes are necessary because the bikes are simply too powerful. Sweet spot of horsepower for a fun fast bike IMO is 100-150 ish and then crazy 215 HP liter bikes are uncontrollable without aids unless you're a professional racer. I'm saying that as someone who is in group A at the track....
Carbeurators? Hell no. Trac control and abs is good just as a safety precaution on lower settings in case gravel or wet.... beyond that just give me a fun bike to rip around on that responds to my commands lol
So glad to see your channel doing so well! I've always been conflicted about Harley, but it is the mechanical simplicity that makes them so appealing. Give me analog clocks and a cable throttle any day.
Harleys aren't mechanically simple anymore. They have EFI, ABS, throttle by wire, all kinds of computerized trash. And they no longer sound or feel liken Harleys.
Yup, it’s getting wild. I try to turn everything off if I can and keep the bike in the highest power so i don’t have to learn other modes
IMO it really depends on the bike. Mine would be almost unridable in anything other than perfect weather if it weren't for TC. Most folks who've owned a bike with it can point to a time ABS has saved their bacon. Heated grips greatly expand the weather envelope I'm willing to ride in. CC's pretty great, but like Spite said, it doesn't really need to be electronic and expensive.
On something like a Gold Wing, I want all the tech. Give me a sat nav screen and Android Auto and anything else they can think to stick on. It just fits the bike's character and use. Of course, that's not the case for every machine.
I think it's what kind of tech. Even people who say they don't want tech still want abs, traction control, and IMUs (for lean angle abs and what not), it's just all the other stuff (quick shifter, tft dashes) that they could do without
That’s why my bike is a 1975 Honda CB550 four. Not real fast but tons of fun. Easy to work on also.
Great video!!! Your point of view is spot on. Technology can be absolutely awesome, but it's nowhere near necessary. Tech can be great for safety, but sometimes on the flipside, it can also become a dangerous distraction too. And for me, there's something about the charm of a simple no frills bike. I like tech, but I still find more comfort in simplicity. Some of these tech advances are so complex, that most people who have it don't truly know what it is, or how to use it. I would fit right into that category on a lot of that tech. And I believe that we're honest with ourselves, then most of us would fit in that bracket. Tech is awesome in bikes, but not necessarily important as a lot of people deem it to be. It's like anything else when it comes to motorcycling or anything for that matter... it's about what the rider likes and wants. I love the fact that you brought up a point that most people know, but they won't share. Thanks again. Stay safe, and enjoy the ride
You are completely right. I bought a Kawasaki now, it barely has electronics. And I owned the Strada , that thing is just a blast.
Long live the DRZ. Say what they want. It’s as reliable as they come. Great video!
Again the wisdom of Spike. I bought a Kawasaki z 400 2022 for my grandson whom joined the Air Force. He didn't want it because it was to slow. So i added all the Ninja racing items. He still doesn't want it. He wants a Kawasaki H2 like Top Gun. All the military guys are buying it. He can buy it himself. I have three other grandson, so we'll see what happens in the future. Your right about the newer bikes. I'm 70 yr old yooper & buying a Yamaha xj750 1982 just like my first bike a Yamaha Special 400 1982. Saving a ton of money & more power. Your right on as usual. Still waiting for you to check out a Kawasaki dirt bike with a front ski and rear snow track? Happy New year!
Great vid as usual. Totally agree, get back to basics. Make a range of bikes with only abs. Then add on what the customer wants. Heated grips etc etc.
This will then bring down the cost. I'm going to sell my 900 tiger for a trident or 660 sport. Well done triumph, your going in the right direction. Less is more.
Listen to people like you and neevsy from MSN in UK.
Rick. NZ.
ABS only if it can be turned off, otherwise, it just gets in the way of fun!
This is why I bought my 18 Triumph Speedmaster. It has about 77hp and 77 Tq nothing crazy that needs a bunch of modes. It does have rain mode but it’s very slight in any difference. ABS is about the most advanced thing on it, that and CC. I love the bike bc it’s pure and simple fun. Great video as always!!!
That is why I rebought the same Honda vf750f 1985 that I rode when I was young. Easy to fix and it just keeps going.
I would have to say that features that improve safety are always welcome things like traction control and ABS. I heard some people complaining about those but those features only kick in when you are doing something what you aren't supposed to be doing unless you off road.
If you get in a unexpected situation where you panic or do something wrong than it's nice that there is something to helps you with your mistake and prevent you from getting hurt.
Yeah but other than abs (optionally corner abs) and traction control, what else would you need the rest for?
Slide control, wheelie control all that nonsense, if you need that you shouldn't be on the road imo.
well not having abs can improve your brake feel/response on track or if you really are out riding at a quick pace
@@jimmyneutron5679 on track, but not on the road (not so far that it should matter at least).
But generally spoken your abs only slaps on when it senses that your tire is slipping, riding fast pace and having that is no bueno on the streets. Rather work on better entry speed or smoother braking in general at that point.
What all that traction control and ABS does is a substitute for rider skill. With all those gizmos the rider will never learn what's required to keep the bike under control. Put him on an older bike and they could get themselves into trouble pretty quickly. Some bikes now come with adaptive braking. What could possibly go wrong? 🤣
They definitely exist for a reason and are useful to many, especially novice riders. One of my bikes doesn't have any rider aids and it's an invaluable tool that teaches you how to handle things like gravel and rain, and to think more about how you enter certain situations, as well as develop a better connection with the bike in terms of your input and how the bike responds.
Agree with this guy, I only need ABS and that's all. I pay attention to mechanics rather than electronics. It is a bike, not a computer...
My homemade EV bike has less tech than most modern bikes.
And that's terrifying
You've become prolific enough that you need to get your bike on the channel man
@@spitescorner you mean refreshing
@@arax20 Ill slowly incept it into his head
This is why I bought a 2022 Kawasaki z900rs only abs and 2 traction control modes …less tech is more fun
Love this video. I keep trying to find the perfect balance of a nimble chassis without power overkill. I have loved my little Suzuki TU250X, owned Hondas and Ducatis since, but I just want that simple bike experience with a larger hit of power in a retro package. The hunt continues, but I am glad to know I am not the only one who loves keeping it simple.
You probably know of them already, but a nice retro bike with a nice amount of power would be the royal Enfield 650s or the Kawasaki w800, they both got about 47 horsepower, most tech either of them have would be abs
@@ArchieKeen1 Neither of those bikes have a nice amount of power. The power/weight sweet spot is like 400-450 pounds with 75-150 horsepower. Anything beyond that gets ridiculous and anything below it gets a bit weak. 150 is obv really on the high end too and only exp riders can use it well at the track or twisty--- 75 like the humble and personality loaded SV650 every level can have a lot of fun on.
@@englishsteel-nz6im I ride a w800, I think it has a “nice” amount of power, it gets up to the speed limits in a swift but smooth manner, it’s sits at 70mph just fine which is as fast as it can legally go on the road, big power or breaking speed limits doesn’t equal fun to me,
Wait for the Honda hornet to come out in a retro skin, an xsr900, or a moto guzzi v7 (the newer one has 65 horsepower!).
Or just get a triumph speed twin, I love mine.
@@ArchieKeen1 don't have to be obliterating speed limits to be having a blast in the twisty roads w/say..... the sv650 example I listed. Or occasionally a track day or...
I gave my Honda Shadow VT750C to my daughter for her first bike (she loves it, btw) after I bought a VTX 1800. While I love my VTX, the Shadow is more fun to ride in and around town, and I prefer to ride it, unless I have to actually go someplace, then the VTX is way better. Something about being able to pin the throttle without dying and just ripping around town is unbeatable happiness.
Production value is getting soooooo much better Spite! Love it ❤️
I'm getting fed up with modern technology. It's just more to go wrong. I grew up with Carburetors, Crossply tyres, no ABS, no Traction control, sweep mechanical dials etc. OK Carbs are a pain unless you know what you're doing. What you do need though is decent suspension front and rear.
One of my bikes has just ABS the other ABS and TCS (on or off), no modes, no connectivity. Now, I tend to ride twisty, very technical roads which I've never seen before, I don't want to be distracted by tech. If you're commuting, which I no longer do, then a rain mode may be advantageous.
Just yesterday I went to look at a Royal Enfield Classic 500 EFi. I popped into the Suzuki and Honda dealers and wasn't impressed.
Had a 1999mod CBR600F4, loved it to bits. "Upgraded" to a Yamaha Dragstar/V-star 1100 with 40 less ponies, more weight, worse brakes, and all the dad-bike chrome you could ever wish for. The only piece of tech on either of those bikes is a phone mount and 12v charger, and that is all I really want. I wouldn't say no to cruise control for my long trips, but even that isn't really needed.
as a new rider this may obviously change in the future but I see vehicles as tools. I really have no desire to go super fast. I just want a way to get from point a to point b. The fact that it's fun is just icing on the cake. I drive a boring kia as a car which i bought because it was cheap and reliable. The only tech I wish they would slap on bikes is cruise control.
I really enjoy the little 300nk I ride and it does have a TFT and 2 laughably nonexistent "modes" which make no real difference except changing how the dash looks.
The way I see it you have a couple different categories of tech...you have performance tech, convenience tech, and comfort tech. I think most people enjoy convenience tech the most, stuff like cruise control. Although as a new rider I do really appreciate the slipper clutch on the cfmoto because lets face it...ive screwed up a downshift or 2 already and it's forgiving enough to handle the mistake while still letting me know i made it. Stuff like that really helps. That could kinda be classified as convenience or performance tech (along with adjustable power modes). Comfort tech like heated grips etc are sorta for the people who would buy a lexus instead of a toyota...it's cool but if it raises the price of the bike too much I would rather not have it.
Ultimately if you price out your buyers, you are not going to do well. Tech is cool but it should be strategically added so that it doesnt drive costs way too high. Tech creep has already absolutely driven the price of new cars through the roof. I do not want to see that in motorcycles.
Still can't believe big, bad, biker Spite drives a station wagon.
THE SPEED3 IS NOT A STATIONWAGON! It's a hatchback totally different 😂
I'm in my mid 50s and on my 5th motorcycle, a BMW R1250RS. I'm also a super nerd who's worked in IT for most of my life. I LOVE the tech and honestly wouldn't have bought this bike without it.
Lean-sensitive ABS, partially linked brakes, full electronic suspension with auto load leveling, hill start and stop assist, quick shifter, heated grips, tire pressure monitoring, a phone app that puts nav info onto the bike's TFT, route mapping of every ride, etc.
Do I NEED any of these things? No. I don't need a bike, either. But I want and very much enjoy these things, and most make me if not more safe, definitely more comfortable.
I totally agree. That’s why I have a Moto Guzzi v7 III Stone. It is elegant in its simplicity. It strips away all the BS and leaves just me, the machine, and the road. Old skool in the best kind of way.
me with a 1997 125ccm talking about how motorcycle technology is too much to handle
I went from a 86 Yamaha Fazer, 30 years later, 2004 Yamaha V-Max. I now have a 2016 BMW S1000XR. I love the quick shifter, cruise control, heated grips and the different power settings. I don’t use them all to their potential but once I awhile I try. Had a throttle lock on the V-Max but nothing beats cruise control.
This is an absolute breath of fresh air! My favourite bike ever for just get on and go appeal is my 1970 BSA B25. Kick start, a speedo, a horn, a 3 position toggle, and an oil pressure warning light. I hate looking at clutter on a bike! Thanks mate!
I agree with everything you have said - when I ride a new style bike the quickshifter keeps making shifts i didn't want, or I pulled the clutch when not needed. As a Ducati rider for years, I prefer being able to loft the front whenever with a flick of the wrist...and my throttle feel is adequate traction control for my non-trackday riding. I am now going down the retro-style bike route as I grew tired of riding a bike that went 100 mph in 1st gear... fastter than any speed limits in the country...with 5 more gears in the box. I think a Speed Twin is really all the motorcycle most people would ever need. And it still looks like a motorcycle.
When it comes to riding bikes and the enjoyment factor less is more. I have a 2004 Honda 600RR which is the 2nd year of the 1st generation of the RR super sport bike. It has nothing in the way of TC, ABS, TBW, or selectable ride modes. It doesn't even have a gear indicator or USD forks. And that's exactly what I love about it! I put a Leo Vince pipe on, flipped the shift lever to GP shift, installed a PC3, and had custom work done to the forks. I've ridden it on the streets and tracks ever since then and it's more bike then I can ride.
The thing about riding liter bikes is they come at a price. They are much less forgiving when making a mistake. So you're less likely to really ride to the limits out of some level of fear. A smaller bike really equates to less fear of making a mistake so you wind up riding it harder. Which means you learn how to ride faster on a smaller bike. Unfortunately, most of the new riders want to buy liter bikes and then go race them on the interstates. Nothing good will come of that practice. Stick to the nice country roads and stop causing problems for the community.
My 2021 Ninja ZX-6R has two power modes (low & full); three traction control modes; a quick shifter (up only) and that’s about it. Just the right amount of tech for me 👌. It’s got about 125 HP so, plenty of power and the price is right at around $11K.
I couldn't agree more. I'm riding a 2021 Triumph Tiger 900 GT Pro. It's power is right in the sweet spot. It allows me the clearance and adjustable suspension for my occasional fire road or jeep trail, but I set the preload and dampening for the street, put it in street mode and just leave it there for 99.9% of my riding. About the only thing I do with the joystick is change tracks on spotify.
My own opinion...I ride to get away from tech.,.I love my Guzzi v7II. Analog tach and speedometer. It does have traction control and ABS but its not a very powerful bike so does not really need it. Also the throttle is a cable, not by wire, Iove the raw feel of it. I recently looked at buying a new bike and was turned off by all the tech. To each his own though. I just hope some manufacturers keep a low tech option around...
I love my 07 speed triple exactly because it doesn't have any tech. Wire throttle and no abs. Simple and easy to work on, and I've been lucky electronically so it's been reliable as all hell.
Lost my 2013 Mazda3 Hatch a little over a year ago and one of the things that I miss the most was the complete lack of features most people seem to demand. No BSM, LKA, AEB, ACC... hell, it didn't even have a screen on the stereo. Bluetooth, AC, cruise control, electric windows, and an absolutely fantastic 6-speed manual are about all I really want. Replaced it with a 2020 Tacoma, and every one of those new features annoyed the hell out of me until I sold it and went motorcycle-only when I moved to HI.
All the bikes I have ever owned were under a 50 hp and I had a blast riding every one of them. From 2 175 cc 1 250 1 230L 1 DRZ400 1 NC700X and now a CRF300L Rally.
Good point. I went from 750-GSXR, to 636 ZX6R, to BMW R NineT, so R1250GS, and back to BMW R NineT, the heavy, ~110hp low tech bike is my favorite. I’ve also become anti-four cylinder, as the low-end grunt of a 1,200 twin is my favorite (triumph, bmw..etc)
Back before many here were born, I designed some of the early microprocessor based control, monitoring and test equipment. After making some "brilliant solutions" for "problems that didn't exist," there was something important I discovered back then. It was so important I even made it one of my favorite "Old Sayings." High technology can be good, but APPROPRIATE technology is always better. For me, cable throttles and a cable clutch is appropriate for my bike, but I don't want to go back to drum brakes operated by cable or rods, I don't want to go back to carburetors and I don't want to go back to brakes that lock up if I panic.
Primary bike - 2015 BMW K1600 all bells and whistles, too much power, too many electronics SOOOO much fun. Secondary bike - 1982 Honda VF750SC, not much power, no bells and whistles (drum rear brake), no electronics SOOOO much fun.....
Low tech is the way to go, with the exception of things like traction control and abs. I've really come to appreciate my CB650r for this exact reason, it has enough to keep me shiny side up and that's it.
I agree. I concur. Too much tech is worthless. In fact, any of this new tech is worthless. Do you need a "rain mode" instead of doing the same thing, with your brain and body, that the "rain mode" tells you to do. My favorite motorcycle was a 1978 Yamaha 1100E. Straight seat, tubeless tires, shaft drive, 2 clocks, fuel gauge and zip else. Rock on! I'm in my eighth decade now. Still wanting to ride.
As a life long motorcyclist who raced off road for 36 years, I like to ride my bike, not let it decide what to do. Traction control, ABS, linked brakes..........SUCK. I control all that myself and expect the bike to react accordingly. My latest Aprilia has waaaaaay too much crap on it. I often hit my mode switch instead of my signal switch and then when I look at my odo, it has some sort of nonsense number because it's in some stupid mode I don't need and I have made a turn with no signal. etc, etc.......🤬I like to slide the bike, wheelie, etc.... My adventure bike (DR650) has a speedo , odo, and resetable trip meter. That's all I need, thank you. Plus, as a motorcycle mechanic, I often have to repair bikes that dealerships can't because they are too complicated for the kids working there to repair. I worked in Honda dealerships most of my life. When Honda introduced the 1800 Gold Wing about two years later we got an update on what Honda had discovered the ECM could do that they didn't know it could. Why would you put something on a motorcycle that you didn't even understand and then sell it to the public!!! My current dirt bike is a KTM E. Yes it's an advanced electric motorcycle, but it is as simple as it gets when riding. It actually lets me control it! I love it!
Congrats on 100k subs! Happy for you man!
Great content! This was a long awaited topic. I just bought a almost new 2016 Gsxs1000 and I also have a 2021 Sv650. The reason for this is exactly the topic of the video. The Sv has ABS and that’s that, and the gsxs has 3 modes and ABS. I would never need or want more. And I also don’t like the tablet dashboard of modern bikes. My sv and gsxs have digital monochrome display and it’s just perfect 👌
After 17 years of old bikes, riding and repairing other peoples problems; I bit the bullet and bought a modern tech heavy machine. In 2018 I bought a left-over 2017 Aprilia Tuono V4rr. Loved it, but most of the bells and whistles were nice, they weren't necessary. I rode it for 20,000 km, trouble free (aside from basic maintenance, a valve adjustment, and a few rear tires...)
Sold it in the middle of Covid. Got into small displacement dual sports, as I wasn't doing distance riding.
I wanted another sportbike. Bought a cosmetically challenged, and maintenance requiring 2007 GSXR600. I'm back on a cost effective older bike, and I couldn't be happier. Its a bike I can live without. It gets stolen, or crashed? shitty, but not as bad as losing a $15,000 bike...
Yeah, cruise control was nice. ABS is something I may miss, but I never relied on it anyways.
One of those high-end car technologies that trickled down to regular cars is the backup camera. I remember when it was such a big deal to have one. Dealers exploited it as a selling point as well. Nowadays it's so basic we take it for granted. I drove a friend's older car recently with no backup camera and it felt like I was reversing blind-folded.
Great video Spite. Ive been riding for 12 years from 125cc to 1300cc. None of my bikes have ever had any fancy rider modes, traction control or ABS! Ive save so many thousands by buying slightly older bikes that still have plenty of power for the street and look nice. What more do you need!
I've got the lower tech 2017 Concours 17 and I'm happy. The main features I like are heated grips, traction control, and ABS. For that the bike doesn't have, I can get with a Cardo headset and use a smartphone or maybe later, get a GPS if I'm doing distance riding.
You got a point, I've got a 2013 690 SMC-R/EnduroR - No ABS - No Traction Control - Sure It has a couple Fuel Map Modes - But I ride bikes for that raw Man and Machine Connection. I don't want my inputs filtered thru an assist computer.
I'm new ish to riding (8 years) - I appreciate traction control and lean angle ABS but apart from that, basic is great - it's one of the things that appealed to me about my gen 1 MT-10.
I have a Royal Enfield Meteor 350. I've done the tinkering things like cat eliminating exhaust and air filter mods. Added saddle bags. Nothing that it needed, but just wanted to satisfy the tinkering need. And the beauty is that it doesn't break the bank.
Spite, I generally agree with you but believe there is one exception - electronic controls can improve safety. For example, IMU supported ABS and anti-wheelie can save your bacon when you get yourself into a situation that your skills cannot manage,and that is important for newer riders and even for an experienced person stepping up or sideways on a new motorbike. Cruise control and quick-shifter can reduce fatigue. I need all these things less now, and really see the appeal of your new Ducati, but 5 years and 55000km ago I really benefitted from what was then close to leading electrickery on my S1000R. I reckon the trickle down is happening - the GSXS1000 now has about the same level electrickery as my 5 year old S1000R has at a very very good price, the the safety net on things like the z900 are awesome. I think many of the Japanese bikes are hitting that nice mid point of price and safety, and seem happy to let the euros service that “iPhone upgrade” top end of the market. Glad to see your channel continue to thrive too!
I have a 07 Fz1s Yamaha since new, no aides, 150hp 200kg, great bike, more power than needed, I have a 77 Kawasaki z650 with 62hp, and I love it, you can enjoy the basics ,and character of a motorbike, like it use to be.
The biggest bikes I ever rode were a Honda 450 Nighthawk and an FT500 Ascot in the 80s, and most recently, a 300 Rebel (yeah, I'm a Honda guy). These bikes had absolutely nothing in the way of TFT displays or fancy rider modes, and the Ascot and Nighthawk had carbs! I never felt the need for more power on any of them nor did I need a single gizmo. I had a hell of a great time on all of them.
Greetings from the UK. This Summer I traded my 143 bhp 2018 Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX with IMU traction control, power modes etc for a 2020 Honda CB1100RS with zero gizmos, naked, and 54 bhp less. Not only do I prefer the Honda to look at, it's more fun, easier to service & maintain, more comfortable with better mpg and makes me want to ride at safe, sensible speeds. It also attracts more admiring looks and comments than the Kawasaki. Bike manufacturers need to take notice of Royal Enfield's sales success instead of producing more powerful crotch rockets with more expensive electronic wizardry.
I've got a 16' Hypermotard 939. Bike is exactly the same as your 821 minus the displacement bump. I love the simplicity. I agree with your opinion on the irritating menu button layout but ultimately it's miniscule for the experience.
You can do everything with 50HP and ABS.
Everything above is luxury. I am not against luxury, but gets tiresome.
Have to say. A few tech aspects that i just wanna have on my touring bike out of safety aspects and comfort
Heated grips, cruise control, cornerning lights, abs, simple traction control, auto blipper+quick shifter and modern bright led lights
I’m an old guy so my opinion doesn’t count. I’ve had a Ducati itch since I was a young guy. I picked up a fairly low mile 2004 Ducati ST4S in 2019. No rider aids. Plenty of beans. Great handling and brakes. I have to adjust my mindset when I ride it as everything happens pretty quickly. I have loved every moment on this bike and hope to never sell it. I’ve done several day rides and I’m doing real touring next month. There’s something about doing a longer trip on a 20 year old motorcycle that appeals to me. No banjos where I’m going. Just wolves. And bears.
I have a 1992 Honda Nighthawk 750, and yesterday i borrowed my father-in-laws KTM 790 Adventure R. It doesnt have many rider aids, but the Traction Control makes me feel that i dont have to put much attention to the throttle when riding, and also on throttle it make the boke wheelie, and that doesn't feel safe, I felt safer with the TC disabled and rear wheel spin. I understand and appreciate front wheel ABS, but i would argue other aids just make you oblivious of what youre doing, and wont let you be a better rider, and even make you a more incompetent vehicle operator.