Team P Twin. They are just overall better. Smaller, cheaper, lighter, easier to work with and better looking. All that by keeping the sound and character of a V2. There is literally no reason other than nostalgia for the V2.
PTwins are simply superior engine designs. VTwins have their place in nostalgia land (see also: motoguzzi's engines) but the ptwin offers the same running characteristics but at lower weight, complexity, and cost. The key was the 270 degree crank.
I don't like the idea of everyone making the exact same thing, I like having the option of whether I want a single, a P twin, a V twin, a triple, an I4, a V4, etc
I agree but sometimes better is better especially from the manufacturer point of view. It's too bad, it's kind of like pushrod vs being phased out with the LS/Vortec being the last one left until being phased out now. I'm sure that's how old hot-rodders felt about the old flatheads which could be rebuilt in a garage, one piece heads, but by today's standards they look like a dinosaur.
@@someone9906the LSs are a great example, because while their power numbers don't stack up, try driving them. They don't feel at a loss for power, specifically because of its primitive pushrod design that makes all the torque accessible down low. My suburban is for sale now, but I couldn't imagine replacing it with something that really had to spin to push it forward. The entire experience of driving Suburbans/Tahoe's etc revolves around never having to rev it over 2500 rpm. Same is true of my V twins. I don't care that they're inefficient, they enhance the experience of riding the bikes they're installed on.
I actually like this conversation formats more than anything else you guys have done together. It's much more casual and relaxed, and it also allows for opinion to be interjected. I hope you guys do more like this.
From an engineering point of view, guzzi is the best air-cooled v-twin. Engine balance, uniform cylinder cooling, top-end servicing ease, and cranshaft orientation which makes shaft final drive the only ligical choice.
This format works! I hope you consider this in future videos more often. Lastly, the collaboration between you two feels natural, sincere, and authentic. Well done 👍.
the sheer lack of feel that a p twin offers is the reason i love a v twin despite all its flaws, and most importantly a v twin sounds so much better than a p twin
I like both the V-twin and a 270 degree P-Twin. But of all I want the CHOICE. Start taking away my choices and I'll immediately gravitate backwards in technology just to exercise my middle finger at the industry. Character, appearance, and performance are equally important. It seems that bean-counters have the toughest time crunching the "character numbers" when meeting the bottom line.
Character boils down to a combination of sound, firing pulsation, and engine vibration frequencies and intensities. Such things can be created in any parallel twin as much as any Vtwin.
Honestly, this format is welcome change of pace, compared to vLog format that you do usually. Hopefully, one day you will have an opportunity to create a stream of content in this fashion, something like you sitting with someone (guest or someone who you believe would provide a valuable insight) and discuss some subject, like this about parallel twins or similar.
The 90 degree V-twin is by far my favourite engine configuration, but there is a time and a place for the P-twin and there are a fair number of good ones available. The RE650, Triumph's 900 & 1200 twins, and Yamaha's CP2 are all up there.
@tedecker3792 Ducati call theirs an L, yes. I think because the rear cylinder is vertical and the front is horizontal. But it's really just Ducati's own terminology for it. Moto Guzzi use 90 degree V-Twins, as does Suzuki (SV650) and countless others but no one else call them L-Twins.
"Every parallel twin feels and sounds the same." MT07: Am I a joke to you? When I did some testrides after getting my license this bike was mindblowing for me. (SV650 was a close second place for me in that price range.) Owned a MT07 with a Termignoni and it simply gave me goosebumps whenever I fired it up. I loved every second on that bike and had an amazing summer with it. Lost it due to an accident and couldnt get another one as the hype has kicked in and made the prices in my area totally explode. (8.000 for a 8 year old machine with 50.000 on it - new ones out of stock) So I looked for a reasonable alternative and got a SFV-650. Sound is also great with an Ixil Hyperlow, but its funny how the CP2 have the better V2 Sound of these two. Still love the little Suzuki Engine for its smoothness while being still a real V2 with great sound. Its totally understandable that Suzuki sticked to that engine for such a long time, but they where slowly forced to adapt to the competition over the last few years. Suzuki is not Ducati and as a "bread and butter" manufacturer they cant demand higher prices for their more complex V2 engines - they had to hop on the parallel twin train.
1- I kinda like these conversational videos. Almost like MCN in a way 2- as much as I hate to say it, p-twins are going to be the future. Cheaper to manufacture, easier to package, and easier to maintain. My SV is about to hit 12k miles and I’m loathing the overdue spark plug swap because of how deep I have to dig into a naked bike. Triumph will see great success with their triples as the last bastion of true multiple-cylinder character (that isn’t a century old boxer twin)
My first few bikes were all parallel 4-cyl.s 350, 650, 750. Then I got a liquid-cooled shaft-drive 6-speed V-twin 700 Suzuki Madura that blew them all away. Then the Honda Magna V65, man what a rush. I've been riding nothing but V-twins ever since, so 30+ years. Probably safe to say I'll never go back to parallel anything... well, maybe a lawn mower but that's where I draw the line.
When comparing V-twin with P-twin it is very important to compare it to 270° P-twin. In terms of firing timing they are the same. Both fire cylinder 1-270°-2-450°... and that makes character of sound and power delivery.
Spite and Whitney are a great duo. Keep up the colabs and all the good work. To me parallel twins feel more modern an can feel more refined, your preference might depend on if you like that feeling. In my case I couldn't decide so I ride both a modern Bonneville and a Heritage classic, you simply can't compare them to each other. I think this may be paving the way for an electric future somehow?
I think it’s hard to beat the sound of a V-twin. Very characterful engines too. The only issue is that parallel twins appear to be easier to manufacture, better on fuel, more compact and I hazard to guess better for emissions. It’s a competitive and popular design. Even the hornet is now a twin. It’s hard to miss that P-twins are in a lot of great bikes now.
The sound of a 90° v-twin is the exact same sound of a parallel with a 270°crank, exacly the same firing order. Only, with a v, you get a perfect primary balance whereheas a parallell achieves perfect secondary balance, but still with a very good primary. V-twins of less that 90° are kind of "bad" , the aren't balanced, and if we are talking Harley, the fact that the rear piston gest so much hotter than the front one due to the airflow is a pretty proposterous engeneering oversight.
@@max-zv7sf Thank you for that Interesting answer , I do like the 270 degree crank bikes - they do sound really good. I ride a 52 degree Honda Shadow - I do appreciate Honda engineering for the smooth V-twin and water cooling. I'd say I am a fan of both camps for different reasons. The agony of motorbikes is just having only one!
@@StratfordWingRider im sorry if my answer was a bit of a rant. I certainly can't look down from any high horse, all my bikes have been single cylinder due to both money and interest (on and off road, and i just like small, light bikes). The Honda Shadow is a beatiful bike. Up to now i couldn't manage to find the money for more than a motorcycle at a time. That doesn't mean i wouldn't absolutely love to have a small collection. Maybe i should go to the dark side and look for a cruiser next.
@@max-zv7sf - you are ok, I appreciate decent conversation around topics and its hard to find! I actually still have a single cylinder '11 CBR250R in the fleet too - its such a wonderful contrast for its size and character. I will still be sad when the day comes that I need to move it on - I am attached to it - just because of how it feels to ride. The old riding a slow bike fast. The Shadow is quite the bike - very popular and for good reason. Somewhat understated compared to most cruisers, but extremely reliable and an enjoyable ride. (I got it for two up pillion riding with my wife)
I am more than twice Spite's age, been riding motorcycles for 55 years. I like a lot of bikes, for various reasons; different engine configurations. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Having owned 9 Harleys, 4 Goldwings, some parallel twins, a boxer twin, a "brick" triple, some single cylinder, my current bike is a parallel twin. It fits me, it suits me. The 270º crank gives the engine some character. The forward cant of the cylinders on the Honda CTX helps keep the weight low, while still providing good low end torque. 500 pounds, so reasonably light weight. It is an easy bike to live with. There was a time when I thought I would always be riding a V-twin and it would have an HD logo on it; a BMW boxer twin RT open my mind to other options. When you reach "a certain age," you care less about the brand loyalty and just enjoy the ride. I have thought each of my last 4 bikes would be "my last bike," but I've now come to enjoy "the right bike, right now." I enjoy Spite's videos, and understand that the title (and the topic) need to draw people in. But, V-twins won't likely be going "extinct" in our lifetimes, and one engine layout isn't necessarily "better" than another - they are just different. That said, it provides fodder for discussion. Now, if you want to get people to band together in different camps, tell 'em your bike has a Dual Clutch Transmission. ;-) Enjoy your ride.
The 90 degree V-twin has a special place in this argument. All other angles of V-twin exist almost entirely for brand character and aesthetics. I'm team V-twin. Half the allure of a motorcycle is that they don't make sense. They're brash, inefficient, and dangerous. If you want an appliance, get a Toyota. In smaller displacements and mid-revving engines, the parallel twin makes a lot of sense. They give all the advantages that everyone already knows about. As engine speeds increase, the 90 degree has a major advantage in balance. Using a 90/270 degree crank on a parallel makes up for the sound, but it does not make up for the balance. As piston sizes grow large, the narrow angle twins like Harley and Indian use help package the engine between the legs better, but I'm not convinced it's a huge difference.
Love it when you and Whitney team up. I really enjoyed this format and I really hope that you and Whitney continue making some more like this. I love V-Twins but I own a single (Z125 Pro) and a P-Twin (Z400) so yeah maybe I don't love them as much as I thought.
More of the conversational content please. When you have two articulate, witty and intelligent people discussing a subject they are passionate about we all win. Regarding the P twin/V twin debate, this is not the first time that the motorcycle industry has done this. Some of you out there who are as ancient as me may remember that in 1976 you could buy a Honda 400/4, Kawasaki 400 triple, Suzuki 380 triple and Yamaha 400 twin. Three years later all 4 manufacturers were making parallel twin 400s. Let’s give them a few years of producing dull stuff until the engineers get bored with the accountants running the show and see what happens then. I remain hopeful. But then again I’m Irish and ride a series one Triumph Street triple, so I go for character, huge grins and swivel eyed lunacy over common sense and utility any day in the week. Keep up the good work, both of you!
With everyone building 270 degree crank I2s and I3s, Kawasaki is gonna stand out and be praised for doing its own thing by sticking with the the traditional 180 degree crank I2s and I4s.
I don't have any experience with a parallel motorcycle engines (only have had v twins) but I am an auto mechanic and love simplicity for durability and ease of repair and maintenance. I'm currently swapping motors on my fiancée's '19 V strom 650 and am in the middle of adjusting the valves and would appreciate 2 cams instead of 4. When Suzuki announced the new parallel 800 I was very interested until I learned it doesn't have cruise control standard so it will probably be awhile before I jump into the parallel market unless I find a good price on the CF MOTO 800 adventura.
Twins can be phased 360,270,180 degrees (and Harley) so you can get a verity of sound from them. Most these days are 270, because its the compromise with engine vibration.
Just about personal preference, but the reality is with rising prices of just about everything, having good quality motorcycles at affordable prices is something we need more of. A lot of manufacturers are guilty of making the same thing year after year without any major changes all while continuing to raise prices. Having a distinct character in an engine is cool, but ultimately most of us average folk want something fun, reliable, and at an obtainable price.
Love to see you both in the same place. Simply good entertainment that feels real, honest. As a ducatista, there can be only one way to sort cylinders.
Yep - single. My first bike Ducati 250 Mk 3 (the one with clip-ons but not the Desmo - a friend had that). Epic bike. Not fast (90 mph, 0-60 - yes) but loved the bends. My dream bike then was the 750 SS. The shop had one in for service. Glorious sound and looked fantastic. Ended up with a Triumph Bonneville 750 - that was all my wallet and insurance would allow.
P Twin for me. I do all the work on my bikes (exactly why i only own naked ones), and they are easier to work on. Also, a 180° P twin vs a 270° V twin are two different animals. The 180 lacks de low end grunt (below 3,5k rpms), the 270 pulls like a train from that low rpm but goes out of puff on high rpms. My gs500e loves to be over 7k rpm and hates bellow 4k, my mt07 lifts the front below 4k and struggles to hit its own rev limiter. Also you are both sitting on motorcycles from brands that have been saved and bought from bankrupcy several times, that tells us a bit about the niche of the v twins and why they don't change their strategy, they don't need to. Other brands on the other, might not have the government or VW to deploy millions to keep them afloat, so they take the safe road, the economic viable one. Disclaimer: I have nothing against v twins, but from a logic perspective I can see why P twins are favorable in today's market.
if this channel (which it will) continues to grow. You two under your channel honestly be the perfect duo, big nerd guy, and a small nerd girl. Best inputs from both worlds with different opinions. also crazy to think TWO of those duke 890's weights like nearly the same as that harley.
I have an SV650, and my first bike was a 91 Ex500. Granted, there was a 6 year gap between selling the one and buying the other, but I have no real preference either way for engine type. The Ninja's biggest weakness was lacking torque, but that's because it was a 180 degree parallel twin designed in 1987. Making 60 horsepower on a reliable 500cc twin was a marvel of engineering at the time.
As a Brit I have just bought my first V twin an Indian chief and what a beast of a machine. It oozes American motorcycle culture, built like a tank. I just love the sound and character. I am 62 and have owned quite a few bikes but the V twin does it for me.
Looking at the brakes on the Duc and the brakes on the Harley blows me away. I put 15" rotors on my Harley Low Rider st and it helped the brakes by a large amount. I'm a v twin fan also.
Great video. I like the conversational style of video better than the vlog style when it's with a guest. Either way I like most of your videos so keep up the good work. V twin motors do have more character but p twins give more performance. It's a real toss up in my opinion which is better.
I was a V-Twin guy for many years. Then I was in a Inline Four addiction because I like the power they make. Now I am on a P-Twin. One thing you didn't talk about was mileage. The P-Twin gets way more mileage than the V-Twin and more power, less vibration.
Ltwins/Vtwins also vibrate. All SV650 engines vibrated. All Ducati L-twins vibrated. Sure they are quite well balanced but not as perfect as some folks made them out to be. 270° parallels need at least one counterrotating balance shaft (MT-07 for example), but the new GSX-8S coming will run two of them, one beside the crank and one below it. The Super Tenere 1200 Yamaha is a 270° parallel twin which runs two counterbalance shafts, one on each side of the crank.
Great video format !!! I had a V twin before, now I have a parallel twin, and never stopped to think about it. New rider thing I guess. You two are great
Great discussion. There is a world of difference between the Motor Company’s 45 degree V twin and a Ducati or Moto Guzzi 90 degree “V” twin insofar as primary and secondary imbalance. The 90 degree twin is substantially smoother and does not require the complexity of a counterbalance shaft or rubber mounting the engine to the frame. I’ve owned them all and definitely prefer the 90 degree “L” twin configuration for smoothness, power, sound and feel.
I loved the CP2 twin in my old 2018 XSR700 with a Yoshi R77 exhaust and a 2wdw tune really woke it up and made it a fun and great sounding motor. Easily my favorite motor for lower speed riding like under 80mph and in town with the smooth power delivery. It's a bulletproof low maintenance motor. They all have such unique characteristics, power delivery and sounds so it's a tough one. Looking forward to seeing how the new Honda and Suzuki Ptwins feel and deliver power, they're really the best motors for a casual rider/commuter whereas my inline 4 is too smooth and begs to be opened up past the speed limits just like my previous XSR900's CP3, they're for going fast and having fun in corners.
If you look here on RUclips, you can find video,s , explaining all pro,s and con,s of each engine concept Singles ,360, 180, 270 o twins, triples, 4 cilinders, 6 cilinders. Each design has their own pro,s and cons. ( as my father always said, new consepts with behold of misery ) I myself always have ride different 180 paralell twins, ( as a rule , they are easy to maintain) but have no problem admiring a nice triple for their smooth run, or a nice V twin for their looks ( always were a sucker for the Intruders and Gussi,s)
I bought my first parallel twin motorcycle in April 2023, (2023 Yamaha T7) after 40 years of inline fours and V twins. I love it! Usable realistic everyday use power. Quick, not fast like my R1 but sensible useable, everyday, predictable power.
First Street bike wuza '81 Honda CB400T , kinda like a mini CB900F Handled great , learned to Hang Off & Dragged pegs on it . Today's equivalent is the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. Another satisfying Parallel twin. Then there's the popular Kawi 500/250 baby ninjas which is literally half a original Ninja motor , well sorta . Those are still around , and are great little sport bikes. I've got myself the cruiser version in a mint condition Black '07 Vulcan 500 LTD . Predecessor to the popular Vulcan650S that we enjoy today. Parallel Twins Are FUNN & I'll say for a commuter or an around towner it's all you really need ! Especially if you only have the occasional need to exceed 100 mph. Me myself, I'm hooked , a true speed junky. I love the torque of Big Vtwins like my Vstrom1000 & DucatiST3. Which I flog on a regular basis to the point of blissfully high triple digits. Therefore on the parallel twin engine topic , I'm looking forward to trying the Benelli TRK 800 , CFMOTO IBEX 800 & especially the KOVE 800 SuperAdventure because that'll probably be the last New Bike I'll ever need to purchase and ride away into the sunset , just like the Cowboys of Old.
270° parallel twins forever. V twins are cool and all, but there's something unique and nostalgic about the character of the 270° parallel twins in terms of exhaust notes and power curve that takes me right back to my first bike.
I rode a fat bob whole summer. Sûre i love aprilia 660 a lot... My bro gave his to me. But nothing as satisfying as fat bob bobobobo braaaaap with the vance and hines. Wasn't a bobber Guy and then try indian chief, and scout bobber, both with exhaust tho (pretty mutted stock) and damn loved it so much almost went for a scout xD But hey. Got a fazer 600 from 04... And now i love inline 4 more than twins. Tho, not the whiners like Kawasaki. I love the bass low ones like gsx1000. Whiner but not too much. :p
@@geraldgoodiii6993 depends if u look for a sporty sound... Then paralel twin 270 is the way... But for chill and "muscle" sound.. Then v twin is the way ^^
90° V-twin (or L-twin as Ducati puts it) = 270° firing interval. Parallel twin with 90° spread between crank pins = 270° firing interval. In other words, they sound cool because they are identical sounding, because the sound wave frequencies coming out the exhaust pipe are identical.
I loved the conversation format it reminded me of a podcast I used to listen to, two guys would talk about moto gp and bikes and the motorcycle news I loved it and I think more videos like this would hit that same nostalgia for me and many people
I LOVE the V2, great character, loads of torque down low and very pleasant to use (used to own a Ducati M600 and an Aprilia Dorsoduro 900), but once i tried my wife's Duke 790 i could not believe how smooth and pleasant to ride the I2 was. Light, nimble, lively and on top of all precise. I'm giving the inline2 a chance because why not ? There is a Tuono 660 coming into my garage later this month :D
I've mostly had inline 4s, although I did own an SV650 briefly (like 60 miles, then I wrecked it and broke my shoulder, which sucked). I've got an old V4 VF500 as a project, that bike sounds interesting, and my latest purchase was a 270 degree p-twin Husky 901. The 901 didn't sound like anything until I did an arrow midpipe and Akra can. Now it sounds amazing! I do agree on the maintenance issues with v-twins, that back cylinder can be somewhat of a pain to deal with, even for something as simple as a spark plug change.
I haven't ridden a V-twin, but I've owned a P-twin for 20 years, so I'm (by default?) a P-twin guy. That being said, I don't think the V-twin's day are numbered, per se. Just like Porsche and Subaru will keep making boxer engines (although VW didn't...heavy sigh), I'm pretty sure Harley and Ducati will keep making V-twins, and that other marques may get back into the V-twin game, later on down the line. With motorcycles, NEVER say NEVER!!! Great video, Spite and Whitney!!!
dude dont judge me but im camp Thumper. I like the sound a little more than a carbereted v-twin (harley potato sound is my second favorite). Low end torque somewhere between a v-twin and p-twin and you cant beat the maintenance. idk i love the sound of a thumper with an open header exhaust. v-twin over p-twin only because of the low end torque and increased tuneability. I tend to enjoy riding p-twins more but you gotta rev them out and i love that low end torque feeling
Thank God for that. Just picked up a ‘23 V-Strom 650 L-twin. I’m loving it. It is s-m-o-o-t-h, good top end power, revvy nature, and wonderful mid range torque. A keeper. I’d gladly pay more for the complexity and valve adjustment maintenance of an L-twin over a 270 degree P2 any day. ALL current P2’s, regardless of crank configuration require the complexity and power consumption of a balance shaft (or two!) to keep the inherent vibration of a P2 under reasonable control. The bottom line is, current market forces demand a cheaper to produce engine. Period, end of story.
It's so sad that Triumph stopped making those beautiful 1700cc Thunderbirds .what fab machines. Simple and reliable. The LT was great for style and comfort and the Thunderbird storm had a great twin headlight look.
Camp v-twin bro! Format changes are fine, keeps the channel dynamic, don't box yourself in. I too, was never a big Whitney fan, but this is some of the best input I've heard from her.
In my personal experience and opinion, I will take a 270 degree P-Twin over a V-Twin when push comes to shove. I've owned a few V-twin cruisers, a Yamaha Super Tenere (big bore P-twin) and KTM 1290 SAS (V-Twin, and current bike). P-Twin is less mechanically complex and the cost of ownership is likely to be cheaper. I love my KTM 1290 SAS...but only when it's fully functional. It's a great V-Twin because it's in a high state of tune. That also makes them less reliable, and they're not cheap when things break. KTM's quality control has been suffering in a big way over the last several years, and they're not owning up to it. The happiest KTM owners I've talked to are the ones with the ability, space and tools to wrench on their bike and don't rely on dealerships...and the truth is that not everyone wants to be that person. Some have circumstances where it would be very difficult to do so.
I own a Triumph at. Scrambler, the sound, power and torque it makes is great for me but I do like how a Harley sounds, just can’t deal with the feet forward feel
I"ve had more twins than any other motorcycle engine configuration. My first was a BMW boxer, then a Kawasaki KZ750t with a double overhead camshaft parallel twin. That engine was counterbalanced and I like it. The only twin configuration I have not owned is a Guzzi. Parallel twins are okay, kinda bland. Great packaging for a motorcycle though. Great conversation. My favorite engine? H-D big v-twin, hands down, but BMW's inline-6 is also right up there. I've never owned a K1600, but I've ridden them and love those engines, but I've owned H-D v-twins for 22 years (always have a H-D in the stable with other motorcycles).
I'm in camp utilitarian. Whatever is cheaper to buy and maintain and can get me where I need to go and carry the gear I need when I get there is the bike I'm going with.
When I started riding in the early nineties it seemed that myself and everyone else I knew had an early 80's parallel twin motorcycle. The parallel-twin will always have a special place in my heart and I'm really happy to see the resurgence. My only gripe is I wish they would move the timing chain outboard and make it serviceable behind its own cover.
I like the conversation style but as a semi regular thing. You and Whitney have a real chemistry and I watched the last one from the start to finish. There are only about 5 channels that I spill do that and spites corner is one.
They're practical and efficient. V twins need twice the number of cams and heads alone. Rear cylinder cooling and access is always an issue as well. Parallel twins can keep the weight forward and low where it helps handling.
Performance is exactly right! That people keep banging on the cheaper P2 costs, which is true, but at least with this configuration it's not a compromise and even rather holds it's own.
V-Twin for life! Definitely no better choice out there. I'm thinking I might need a little notice and I'll grab up whatever final year SV650 is produced.
I'll never give up on the 90 vee twin. It's got natural balance that the parallel needs balance shafts for. The big difference I reckon is the manufacturing and assembly costs plus space in the frame.
I believe that the US style V-Twins is still popular in the US because of the straight paved roads, long distances, speed limits and dislike of manual shifting. A P-twin usually needs a more active riding, shifting to get most of it. The V-twin is good at red light drag racing and constant speed cruising. As an European it's a simple choice.
I had a Panagale 899. I have an SV650. I have had Honda P2s since before god was born. I have had 2 stroke P2 Yamaha RDs. I have boxer twins. I've had Moto Guzzi Vs. The V still has the best sound. It seems to envelope me. I occasionally get customer "conventional" V-Twins metric and sometimes not. Still the same. It is a more involving sound experience.
V-Twins are more expensive to produce, that‘s their fault. When price and over all efficency is the main goal >> parallel twin. If you want more character & style >> V-twin…like my Moto Guzzi V85TT😍
I like this style of video. I would like pictures of the bikes u talk about tho cuz while i do nerd out with bikes i dont know every bike so sometimes comparisons r completely lost on me
People have been calling for an end to the v-twin 10 minutes after Harley mounted a v-twin on a bicycle 120 years ago, I don’t see it happening anytime soon
I like any twins, but for me? 360P twin. You get the vibrations, though on a lighter scale, of the vtwin, easy matinence, good brappy sound from the exhaust. They're a good time.
V-twin Always!!! Sounds, feel, the ride a v-twin just can't beat. & bikes being heavier is what makes you feel like you are riding a motorcycle. There is no way in the world I would be caught on the highway riding that wretched mosquito 🦟 looking duke. Style, looks & sound comes first. V-twins give bikes a look & style that can't be matched! For instance look at the "Yamaha V-max" it wouldn't look half as good as it does, if it didn't have a v-twin in the center of it.
If manufacturers have to add too many more clean air mods, a vee will make it harder to find the room, unless it's a BIG bike. Ducati haven't got much of a frame left on many of their models - to reduce weight, gain some space, while remaining fairly small package......the extra cost of producing a vee engine isn't so much of an issue for a manufacturer whose bikes are expensive.
I bought an MT07 right when it came out in 2014 and at the time it wasn't marketed as a beginner A2 compliant motorcycle. Back then it was presented as a cheaper alternative to the Ducati monster. And apart from strangely tuned suspensions it was actually good at what it set out to be. And the engine had its own identity, it vibrated way less than a V-twin or a standard 180 parallel twin and made fat torque right in the middle of the rev range. And so for a few months it was unique and fresh. Everyone else took note and tried to replicate the success meanwhile Yamaha shifted their marketing and increased the price. I personally prefer a 270 parallel twin to a 180 or a V-twin but over the last 10 years it went from being novel and exciting to a saturated market. And Ducatis have all sorts of quirks that make them Ducatis so you either like them or you don't. Same for Harley and Guzzi really. So are V-twin going extinct? I don't think so.
11:30 I can't agree that Triumph & Yamaha will eventually drop their triples. IMO I think Triumph's identity is too firmly tied to 3 cyl bikes & Yamaha will keep their CP3 for premium models. But yes, in line twins are pretty amazing, these days.
I agree that the V-twin is turning into something like a niche for connoisseurs, but I think they forgot to add that some less traditional (western traditional, it is) builders are moving into that niche. Royal Enfield is developing a 850cc V-Twin for quite some time, and Shineray just exhibited a 1200cc V-Twin that is basically a Sporstster engine done by reverse engineering.
Are you in camp V Twin or camp P Twin, and why?
Team P Twin. They are just overall better. Smaller, cheaper, lighter, easier to work with and better looking. All that by keeping the sound and character of a V2. There is literally no reason other than nostalgia for the V2.
I ride a Moto Guzz... So defenetly team V-Twin. Juste the Sound and the Rumble. nothin is like that
After ridiing an XSR700, P-twin. Easier to work on and pretty damn close to the experience I got on many V-twins.
PTwins are simply superior engine designs. VTwins have their place in nostalgia land (see also: motoguzzi's engines) but the ptwin offers the same running characteristics but at lower weight, complexity, and cost. The key was the 270 degree crank.
I am inline 4 camp....
I don't like the idea of everyone making the exact same thing, I like having the option of whether I want a single, a P twin, a V twin, a triple, an I4, a V4, etc
I agree but sometimes better is better especially from the manufacturer point of view. It's too bad, it's kind of like pushrod vs being phased out with the LS/Vortec being the last one left until being phased out now. I'm sure that's how old hot-rodders felt about the old flatheads which could be rebuilt in a garage, one piece heads, but by today's standards they look like a dinosaur.
I'd rather the buying public knew what the difference was besides lumps of metal poking in various directions and a different noise.
Don't forget I6 (Honda) and Flat 6 (Honda). I-6 sounds incredible!
@@someone9906the LSs are a great example, because while their power numbers don't stack up, try driving them. They don't feel at a loss for power, specifically because of its primitive pushrod design that makes all the torque accessible down low. My suburban is for sale now, but I couldn't imagine replacing it with something that really had to spin to push it forward. The entire experience of driving Suburbans/Tahoe's etc revolves around never having to rev it over 2500 rpm. Same is true of my V twins. I don't care that they're inefficient, they enhance the experience of riding the bikes they're installed on.
I actually like this conversation formats more than anything else you guys have done together.
It's much more casual and relaxed, and it also allows for opinion to be interjected.
I hope you guys do more like this.
Agreed.... like what two bikers do on every ride, pull over and shoot the sh-t.
I like this format of sitting on the bikes like you're having a table-talk. Looks chill and like something me and my friends would do while out.
I'm in camp V-Twin, I want to savor the trip not just commute. I strongly prefer the conversational format and exchange of ideas, more please.
From an engineering point of view, guzzi is the best air-cooled v-twin. Engine balance, uniform cylinder cooling, top-end servicing ease, and cranshaft orientation which makes shaft final drive the only ligical choice.
This format works! I hope you consider this in future videos more often. Lastly, the collaboration between you two feels natural, sincere, and authentic.
Well done 👍.
the sheer lack of feel that a p twin offers is the reason i love a v twin despite all its flaws, and most importantly a v twin sounds so much better than a p twin
I like both the V-twin and a 270 degree P-Twin. But of all I want the CHOICE. Start taking away my choices and I'll immediately gravitate backwards in technology just to exercise my middle finger at the industry. Character, appearance, and performance are equally important. It seems that bean-counters have the toughest time crunching the "character numbers" when meeting the bottom line.
Character boils down to a combination of sound, firing pulsation, and engine vibration frequencies and intensities. Such things can be created in any parallel twin as much as any Vtwin.
Man, those are some of the nicest sounding leaf blowers I've ever heard.
Honestly, this format is welcome change of pace, compared to vLog format that you do usually.
Hopefully, one day you will have an opportunity to create a stream of content in this fashion, something like you sitting with someone (guest or someone who you believe would provide a valuable insight) and discuss some subject, like this about parallel twins or similar.
The 90 degree V-twin is by far my favourite engine configuration, but there is a time and a place for the P-twin and there are a fair number of good ones available. The RE650, Triumph's 900 & 1200 twins, and Yamaha's CP2 are all up there.
I thought 90 degree twins were “L” twins. Ducati is the only one I know of.
@tedecker3792 Ducati call theirs an L, yes. I think because the rear cylinder is vertical and the front is horizontal. But it's really just Ducati's own terminology for it. Moto Guzzi use 90 degree V-Twins, as does Suzuki (SV650) and countless others but no one else call them L-Twins.
My BMW F900 has a parallel twin and it's biggest advantage over VTwins is it doesn't roast my legs in the hot Western Australian summers.
"Every parallel twin feels and sounds the same."
MT07: Am I a joke to you?
When I did some testrides after getting my license this bike was mindblowing for me. (SV650 was a close second place for me in that price range.) Owned a MT07 with a Termignoni and it simply gave me goosebumps whenever I fired it up. I loved every second on that bike and had an amazing summer with it.
Lost it due to an accident and couldnt get another one as the hype has kicked in and made the prices in my area totally explode.
(8.000 for a 8 year old machine with 50.000 on it - new ones out of stock)
So I looked for a reasonable alternative and got a SFV-650.
Sound is also great with an Ixil Hyperlow, but its funny how the CP2 have the better V2 Sound of these two.
Still love the little Suzuki Engine for its smoothness while being still a real V2 with great sound.
Its totally understandable that Suzuki sticked to that engine for such a long time, but they where slowly forced to adapt to the competition over the last few years.
Suzuki is not Ducati and as a "bread and butter" manufacturer they cant demand higher prices for their more complex V2 engines - they had to hop on the parallel twin train.
1- I kinda like these conversational videos. Almost like MCN in a way
2- as much as I hate to say it, p-twins are going to be the future. Cheaper to manufacture, easier to package, and easier to maintain. My SV is about to hit 12k miles and I’m loathing the overdue spark plug swap because of how deep I have to dig into a naked bike. Triumph will see great success with their triples as the last bastion of true multiple-cylinder character (that isn’t a century old boxer twin)
My first few bikes were all parallel 4-cyl.s 350, 650, 750. Then I got a liquid-cooled shaft-drive 6-speed V-twin 700 Suzuki Madura that blew them all away. Then the Honda Magna V65, man what a rush. I've been riding nothing but V-twins ever since, so 30+ years. Probably safe to say I'll never go back to parallel anything... well, maybe a lawn mower but that's where I draw the line.
When comparing V-twin with P-twin it is very important to compare it to 270° P-twin. In terms of firing timing they are the same. Both fire cylinder 1-270°-2-450°... and that makes character of sound and power delivery.
Not all vtwins have that cycle the Rotax v990 for one close at 300-420
Spite and Whitney are a great duo. Keep up the colabs and all the good work. To me parallel twins feel more modern an can feel more refined, your preference might depend on if you like that feeling. In my case I couldn't decide so I ride both a modern Bonneville and a Heritage classic, you simply can't compare them to each other. I think this may be paving the way for an electric future somehow?
I think it’s hard to beat the sound of a V-twin. Very characterful engines too.
The only issue is that parallel twins appear to be easier to manufacture, better on fuel, more compact and I hazard to guess better for emissions. It’s a competitive and popular design. Even the hornet is now a twin.
It’s hard to miss that P-twins are in a lot of great bikes now.
The sound of a 90° v-twin is the exact same sound of a parallel with a 270°crank, exacly the same firing order. Only, with a v, you get a perfect primary balance whereheas a parallell achieves perfect secondary balance, but still with a very good primary.
V-twins of less that 90° are kind of "bad" , the aren't balanced, and if we are talking Harley, the fact that the rear piston gest so much hotter than the front one due to the airflow is a pretty proposterous engeneering oversight.
@@max-zv7sf Thank you for that Interesting answer , I do like the 270 degree crank bikes - they do sound really good. I ride a 52 degree Honda Shadow - I do appreciate Honda engineering for the smooth V-twin and water cooling. I'd say I am a fan of both camps for different reasons. The agony of motorbikes is just having only one!
@@StratfordWingRider im sorry if my answer was a bit of a rant.
I certainly can't look down from any high horse, all my bikes have been single cylinder due to both money and interest (on and off road, and i just like small, light bikes).
The Honda Shadow is a beatiful bike. Up to now i couldn't manage to find the money for more than a motorcycle at a time. That doesn't mean i wouldn't absolutely love to have a small collection. Maybe i should go to the dark side and look for a cruiser next.
@@max-zv7sf - you are ok, I appreciate decent conversation around topics and its hard to find! I actually still have a single cylinder '11 CBR250R in the fleet too - its such a wonderful contrast for its size and character. I will still be sad when the day comes that I need to move it on - I am attached to it - just because of how it feels to ride. The old riding a slow bike fast.
The Shadow is quite the bike - very popular and for good reason. Somewhat understated compared to most cruisers, but extremely reliable and an enjoyable ride. (I got it for two up pillion riding with my wife)
It's a shame the Hornet is now a parallel twin. The old four cylinder lump was a joy.
I am more than twice Spite's age, been riding motorcycles for 55 years. I like a lot of bikes, for various reasons; different engine configurations. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Having owned 9 Harleys, 4 Goldwings, some parallel twins, a boxer twin, a "brick" triple, some single cylinder, my current bike is a parallel twin. It fits me, it suits me. The 270º crank gives the engine some character. The forward cant of the cylinders on the Honda CTX helps keep the weight low, while still providing good low end torque. 500 pounds, so reasonably light weight. It is an easy bike to live with. There was a time when I thought I would always be riding a V-twin and it would have an HD logo on it; a BMW boxer twin RT open my mind to other options. When you reach "a certain age," you care less about the brand loyalty and just enjoy the ride. I have thought each of my last 4 bikes would be "my last bike," but I've now come to enjoy "the right bike, right now."
I enjoy Spite's videos, and understand that the title (and the topic) need to draw people in. But, V-twins won't likely be going "extinct" in our lifetimes, and one engine layout isn't necessarily "better" than another - they are just different. That said, it provides fodder for discussion. Now, if you want to get people to band together in different camps, tell 'em your bike has a Dual Clutch Transmission. ;-) Enjoy your ride.
The 90 degree V-twin has a special place in this argument. All other angles of V-twin exist almost entirely for brand character and aesthetics.
I'm team V-twin. Half the allure of a motorcycle is that they don't make sense. They're brash, inefficient, and dangerous. If you want an appliance, get a Toyota.
In smaller displacements and mid-revving engines, the parallel twin makes a lot of sense. They give all the advantages that everyone already knows about. As engine speeds increase, the 90 degree has a major advantage in balance. Using a 90/270 degree crank on a parallel makes up for the sound, but it does not make up for the balance. As piston sizes grow large, the narrow angle twins like Harley and Indian use help package the engine between the legs better, but I'm not convinced it's a huge difference.
Love it when you and Whitney team up. I really enjoyed this format and I really hope that you and Whitney continue making some more like this. I love V-Twins but I own a single (Z125 Pro) and a P-Twin (Z400) so yeah maybe I don't love them as much as I thought.
More of the conversational content please. When you have two articulate, witty and intelligent people discussing a subject they are passionate about we all win. Regarding the P twin/V twin debate, this is not the first time that the motorcycle industry has done this. Some of you out there who are as ancient as me may remember that in 1976 you could buy a Honda 400/4, Kawasaki 400 triple, Suzuki 380 triple and Yamaha 400 twin. Three years later all 4 manufacturers were making parallel twin 400s. Let’s give them a few years of producing dull stuff until the engineers get bored with the accountants running the show and see what happens then. I remain hopeful. But then again I’m Irish and ride a series one Triumph Street triple, so I go for character, huge grins and swivel eyed lunacy over common sense and utility any day in the week. Keep up the good work, both of you!
I like the sound'n'feel of riding V-twins, but I also like the easy accessibility for service on (most) P-twins.
Get a Guzzi. Best of both worlds.
I like the format. I think throwing this in every so often would be a good thing.
With everyone building 270 degree crank I2s and I3s, Kawasaki is gonna stand out and be praised for doing its own thing by sticking with the the traditional 180 degree crank I2s and I4s.
I don't have any experience with a parallel motorcycle engines (only have had v twins) but I am an auto mechanic and love simplicity for durability and ease of repair and maintenance. I'm currently swapping motors on my fiancée's '19 V strom 650 and am in the middle of adjusting the valves and would appreciate 2 cams instead of 4. When Suzuki announced the new parallel 800 I was very interested until I learned it doesn't have cruise control standard so it will probably be awhile before I jump into the parallel market unless I find a good price on the CF MOTO 800 adventura.
Twins can be phased 360,270,180 degrees (and Harley) so you can get a verity of sound from them. Most these days are 270, because its the compromise with engine vibration.
a new exhaust does fix the sound on an 890. Got a clip comparing before and after if anyone wants to hear it.
Just about personal preference, but the reality is with rising prices of just about everything, having good quality motorcycles at affordable prices is something we need more of. A lot of manufacturers are guilty of making the same thing year after year without any major changes all while continuing to raise prices. Having a distinct character in an engine is cool, but ultimately most of us average folk want something fun, reliable, and at an obtainable price.
The CP2 actually sounds really good with a nice exhaust
This is your best video since starting the channel love the format
Love to see you both in the same place. Simply good entertainment that feels real, honest.
As a ducatista, there can be only one way to sort cylinders.
Yep - single. My first bike Ducati 250 Mk 3 (the one with clip-ons but not the Desmo - a friend had that). Epic bike. Not fast (90 mph, 0-60 - yes) but loved the bends.
My dream bike then was the 750 SS. The shop had one in for service. Glorious sound and looked fantastic.
Ended up with a Triumph Bonneville 750 - that was all my wallet and insurance would allow.
P Twin for me. I do all the work on my bikes (exactly why i only own naked ones), and they are easier to work on. Also, a 180° P twin vs a 270° V twin are two different animals. The 180 lacks de low end grunt (below 3,5k rpms), the 270 pulls like a train from that low rpm but goes out of puff on high rpms. My gs500e loves to be over 7k rpm and hates bellow 4k, my mt07 lifts the front below 4k and struggles to hit its own rev limiter. Also you are both sitting on motorcycles from brands that have been saved and bought from bankrupcy several times, that tells us a bit about the niche of the v twins and why they don't change their strategy, they don't need to. Other brands on the other, might not have the government or VW to deploy millions to keep them afloat, so they take the safe road, the economic viable one.
Disclaimer: I have nothing against v twins, but from a logic perspective I can see why P twins are favorable in today's market.
Great vid - love the format. Very chill synergy between you two.
Yes. I like the conversation format. You both are fun to listen to.
if this channel (which it will) continues to grow. You two under your channel honestly be the perfect duo, big nerd guy, and a small nerd girl. Best inputs from both worlds with different opinions. also crazy to think TWO of those duke 890's weights like nearly the same as that harley.
I have an SV650, and my first bike was a 91 Ex500. Granted, there was a 6 year gap between selling the one and buying the other, but I have no real preference either way for engine type. The Ninja's biggest weakness was lacking torque, but that's because it was a 180 degree parallel twin designed in 1987. Making 60 horsepower on a reliable 500cc twin was a marvel of engineering at the time.
As a Brit I have just bought my first V twin an Indian chief and what a beast of a machine. It oozes American motorcycle culture, built like a tank. I just love the sound and character. I am 62 and have owned quite a few bikes but the V twin does it for me.
Camp V for sure.
And yeah the conversation format was very enjoyable. I’d like to see more!
Bummer to loose the vlog but go ahead and keep talking. Nothing wrong with that. Fun to hear yal recall the experience.
You all are an awesome duo for this
Looking at the brakes on the Duc and the brakes on the Harley blows me away. I put 15" rotors on my Harley Low Rider st and it helped the brakes by a large amount. I'm a v twin fan also.
I really enjoyed this format! very relaxing and easy to watch while i multitask (how i usually watch youtube)
Great video. I like the conversational style of video better than the vlog style when it's with a guest. Either way I like most of your videos so keep up the good work. V twin motors do have more character but p twins give more performance. It's a real toss up in my opinion which is better.
I was a V-Twin guy for many years. Then I was in a Inline Four addiction because I like the power they make. Now I am on a P-Twin. One thing you didn't talk about was mileage. The P-Twin gets way more mileage than the V-Twin and more power, less vibration.
Ltwins/Vtwins also vibrate. All SV650 engines vibrated. All Ducati L-twins vibrated. Sure they are quite well balanced but not as perfect as some folks made them out to be. 270° parallels need at least one counterrotating balance shaft (MT-07 for example), but the new GSX-8S coming will run two of them, one beside the crank and one below it. The Super Tenere 1200 Yamaha is a 270° parallel twin which runs two counterbalance shafts, one on each side of the crank.
Great video format !!! I had a V twin before, now I have a parallel twin, and never stopped to think about it. New rider thing I guess. You two are great
Great discussion. There is a world of difference between the Motor Company’s 45 degree V twin and a Ducati or Moto Guzzi 90 degree “V” twin insofar as primary and secondary imbalance. The 90 degree twin is substantially smoother and does not require the complexity of a counterbalance shaft or rubber mounting the engine to the frame. I’ve owned them all and definitely prefer the 90 degree “L” twin configuration for smoothness, power, sound and feel.
I loved the CP2 twin in my old 2018 XSR700 with a Yoshi R77 exhaust and a 2wdw tune really woke it up and made it a fun and great sounding motor. Easily my favorite motor for lower speed riding like under 80mph and in town with the smooth power delivery. It's a bulletproof low maintenance motor. They all have such unique characteristics, power delivery and sounds so it's a tough one. Looking forward to seeing how the new Honda and Suzuki Ptwins feel and deliver power, they're really the best motors for a casual rider/commuter whereas my inline 4 is too smooth and begs to be opened up past the speed limits just like my previous XSR900's CP3, they're for going fast and having fun in corners.
If you look here on RUclips, you can find video,s , explaining all pro,s and con,s of each engine concept Singles ,360, 180, 270 o twins, triples, 4 cilinders, 6 cilinders. Each design has their own pro,s and cons. ( as my father always said, new consepts with behold of misery ) I myself always have ride different 180 paralell twins, ( as a rule , they are easy to maintain) but have no problem admiring a nice triple for their smooth run, or a nice V twin for their looks ( always were a sucker for the Intruders and Gussi,s)
I bought my first parallel twin motorcycle in April 2023, (2023 Yamaha T7) after 40 years of inline fours and V twins. I love it! Usable realistic everyday use power. Quick, not fast like my R1 but sensible useable, everyday, predictable power.
P-Twins seem like the best compromise to me. And you can have different sounds and character based on crankshaft angle.
Great video guys!!! Thank you 😉
First Street bike wuza '81 Honda CB400T , kinda like a mini CB900F
Handled great , learned to Hang Off & Dragged pegs on it .
Today's equivalent is the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. Another satisfying Parallel twin.
Then there's the popular Kawi 500/250 baby ninjas which is literally half a original Ninja motor , well sorta . Those are still around , and are great little sport bikes. I've got myself the cruiser version in a mint condition Black '07 Vulcan 500 LTD . Predecessor to the popular Vulcan650S that we enjoy today.
Parallel Twins Are FUNN & I'll say for a commuter or an around towner it's all you really need ! Especially if you only have the occasional need to exceed 100 mph. Me myself, I'm hooked , a true speed junky. I love the torque of Big Vtwins like my Vstrom1000 & DucatiST3. Which I flog on a regular basis to the point of blissfully high triple digits. Therefore on the parallel twin engine topic , I'm looking forward to trying the Benelli TRK 800 , CFMOTO IBEX 800 & especially the KOVE 800 SuperAdventure because that'll probably be the last New Bike I'll ever need to purchase and ride away into the sunset , just like the Cowboys of Old.
I really enjoy your videos. So much better than the other guy. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
270° parallel twins forever. V twins are cool and all, but there's something unique and nostalgic about the character of the 270° parallel twins in terms of exhaust notes and power curve that takes me right back to my first bike.
I rode a fat bob whole summer. Sûre i love aprilia 660 a lot... My bro gave his to me. But nothing as satisfying as fat bob bobobobo braaaaap with the vance and hines.
Wasn't a bobber Guy and then try indian chief, and scout bobber, both with exhaust tho (pretty mutted stock) and damn loved it so much almost went for a scout xD
But hey. Got a fazer 600 from 04... And now i love inline 4 more than twins. Tho, not the whiners like Kawasaki. I love the bass low ones like gsx1000. Whiner but not too much. :p
@@thomasbouvier3203 my road king with the cam in it
CHOP
CHOP
CHOP CHOP
u can’t beat it !!!
@@geraldgoodiii6993 depends if u look for a sporty sound... Then paralel twin 270 is the way... But for chill and "muscle" sound.. Then v twin is the way ^^
90° V-twin (or L-twin as Ducati puts it) = 270° firing interval.
Parallel twin with 90° spread between crank pins = 270° firing interval.
In other words, they sound cool because they are identical sounding, because the sound wave frequencies coming out the exhaust pipe are identical.
I loved the conversation format it reminded me of a podcast I used to listen to, two guys would talk about moto gp and bikes and the motorcycle news I loved it and I think more videos like this would hit that same nostalgia for me and many people
I LOVE the V2, great character, loads of torque down low and very pleasant to use (used to own a Ducati M600 and an Aprilia Dorsoduro 900), but once i tried my wife's Duke 790 i could not believe how smooth and pleasant to ride the I2 was. Light, nimble, lively and on top of all precise.
I'm giving the inline2 a chance because why not ? There is a Tuono 660 coming into my garage later this month :D
Really enjoy this format! Keep up the good (and interesting) work!
Always a delight to see and hear you both on the move on the topics you bring on are sport of riding and maintaining of are rides freaken cool
I've mostly had inline 4s, although I did own an SV650 briefly (like 60 miles, then I wrecked it and broke my shoulder, which sucked). I've got an old V4 VF500 as a project, that bike sounds interesting, and my latest purchase was a 270 degree p-twin Husky 901. The 901 didn't sound like anything until I did an arrow midpipe and Akra can. Now it sounds amazing!
I do agree on the maintenance issues with v-twins, that back cylinder can be somewhat of a pain to deal with, even for something as simple as a spark plug change.
I can tell that Whitney is a mom with that Disney villain laugh.
Hey man I thought we were friends 👹
@@Whitney_Does That's an amazing laugh worthy of Angelina Jolie as Malificent! Be proud!
I haven't ridden a V-twin, but I've owned a P-twin for 20 years, so I'm (by default?) a P-twin guy.
That being said, I don't think the V-twin's day are numbered, per se. Just like Porsche and Subaru will keep making boxer engines (although VW didn't...heavy sigh), I'm pretty sure Harley and Ducati will keep making V-twins, and that other marques may get back into the V-twin game, later on down the line.
With motorcycles, NEVER say NEVER!!!
Great video, Spite and Whitney!!!
dude dont judge me but im camp Thumper. I like the sound a little more than a carbereted v-twin (harley potato sound is my second favorite). Low end torque somewhere between a v-twin and p-twin and you cant beat the maintenance. idk i love the sound of a thumper with an open header exhaust. v-twin over p-twin only because of the low end torque and increased tuneability. I tend to enjoy riding p-twins more but you gotta rev them out and i love that low end torque feeling
I like this format. Keep it up, guys.
I will never forgive Suzuki for axing the sv650 engine. That was the best motorcycle engine ever made.
Idt it's gone
Thank God for that. Just picked up a ‘23 V-Strom 650 L-twin. I’m loving it. It is s-m-o-o-t-h, good top end power, revvy nature, and wonderful mid range torque. A keeper. I’d gladly pay more for the complexity and valve adjustment maintenance of an L-twin over a 270 degree P2 any day. ALL current P2’s, regardless of crank configuration require the complexity and power consumption of a balance shaft (or two!) to keep the inherent vibration of a P2 under reasonable control. The bottom line is, current market forces demand a cheaper to produce engine. Period, end of story.
It's so sad that Triumph stopped making those beautiful 1700cc Thunderbirds .what fab machines. Simple and reliable. The LT was great for style and comfort and the Thunderbird storm had a great twin headlight look.
Camp v-twin bro! Format changes are fine, keeps the channel dynamic, don't box yourself in. I too, was never a big Whitney fan, but this is some of the best input I've heard from her.
In my personal experience and opinion, I will take a 270 degree P-Twin over a V-Twin when push comes to shove. I've owned a few V-twin cruisers, a Yamaha Super Tenere (big bore P-twin) and KTM 1290 SAS (V-Twin, and current bike). P-Twin is less mechanically complex and the cost of ownership is likely to be cheaper. I love my KTM 1290 SAS...but only when it's fully functional. It's a great V-Twin because it's in a high state of tune. That also makes them less reliable, and they're not cheap when things break. KTM's quality control has been suffering in a big way over the last several years, and they're not owning up to it. The happiest KTM owners I've talked to are the ones with the ability, space and tools to wrench on their bike and don't rely on dealerships...and the truth is that not everyone wants to be that person. Some have circumstances where it would be very difficult to do so.
I own a Triumph at. Scrambler, the sound, power and torque it makes is great for me but I do like how a Harley sounds, just can’t deal with the feet forward feel
Conversation format is nice to weave in, maybe one a week.
I"ve had more twins than any other motorcycle engine configuration. My first was a BMW boxer, then a Kawasaki KZ750t with a double overhead camshaft parallel twin. That engine was counterbalanced and I like it. The only twin configuration I have not owned is a Guzzi. Parallel twins are okay, kinda bland. Great packaging for a motorcycle though. Great conversation. My favorite engine? H-D big v-twin, hands down, but BMW's inline-6 is also right up there. I've never owned a K1600, but I've ridden them and love those engines, but I've owned H-D v-twins for 22 years (always have a H-D in the stable with other motorcycles).
I'm in camp utilitarian. Whatever is cheaper to buy and maintain and can get me where I need to go and carry the gear I need when I get there is the bike I'm going with.
I like the P-Twin. great format y'all!
When I started riding in the early nineties it seemed that myself and everyone else I knew had an early 80's parallel twin motorcycle.
The parallel-twin will always have a special place in my heart and I'm really happy to see the resurgence. My only gripe is I wish they would move the timing chain outboard and make it serviceable behind its own cover.
Check out the bevel gear shaft cam drive on the Kawasaki W800
I like the conversation style but as a semi regular thing. You and Whitney have a real chemistry and I watched the last one from the start to finish. There are only about 5 channels that I spill do that and spites corner is one.
You got to love this duo and there different ways to look at a bike!
I think it’s great to have these discussion videos mixed in with riding vids. I really enjoyed this.👍 keep up the great work!
They're practical and efficient. V twins need twice the number of cams and heads alone. Rear cylinder cooling and access is always an issue as well. Parallel twins can keep the weight forward and low where it helps handling.
Performance is exactly right!
That people keep banging on the cheaper P2 costs, which is true, but at least with this configuration it's not a compromise and even rather holds it's own.
V-Twin for life! Definitely no better choice out there.
I'm thinking I might need a little notice and I'll grab up whatever final year SV650 is produced.
combine the 2, better than either, V4!
I'll never give up on the 90 vee twin. It's got natural balance that the parallel needs balance shafts for. The big difference I reckon is the manufacturing and assembly costs plus space in the frame.
I never cared for the boiling crotch from the rear cylinder.
So basically you only like Ducatis and Arillias then.
Oh and Moto-Guzzi.
I believe that the US style V-Twins is still popular in the US because of the straight paved roads, long distances, speed limits and dislike of manual shifting. A P-twin usually needs a more active riding, shifting to get most of it. The V-twin is good at red light drag racing and constant speed cruising. As an European it's a simple choice.
Best comment here. The type of roads in the region dictate people's tastes, and therefore, the type of engines that sell there.
I had a Panagale 899. I have an SV650. I have had Honda P2s since before god was born. I have had 2 stroke P2 Yamaha RDs. I have boxer twins. I've had Moto Guzzi Vs.
The V still has the best sound. It seems to envelope me. I occasionally get customer "conventional" V-Twins metric and sometimes not. Still the same. It is a more involving sound experience.
V-Twins are more expensive to produce, that‘s their fault.
When price and over all efficency is the main goal >> parallel twin.
If you want more character & style >> V-twin…like my Moto Guzzi V85TT😍
I like this style of video.
I would like pictures of the bikes u talk about tho cuz while i do nerd out with bikes i dont know every bike so sometimes comparisons r completely lost on me
Does it matter when they can be made to run and sound the same, and have the parallel engine benefits of weight and cost?
270 p-twins sound about as good as any V-twin IMHO. Packaging is definitely better on the p-twin, making them easier to work on.
People have been calling for an end to the v-twin 10 minutes after Harley mounted a v-twin on a bicycle 120 years ago, I don’t see it happening anytime soon
I like any twins, but for me? 360P twin. You get the vibrations, though on a lighter scale, of the vtwin, easy matinence, good brappy sound from the exhaust. They're a good time.
V-twin Always!!! Sounds, feel, the ride a v-twin just can't beat. & bikes being heavier is what makes you feel like you are riding a motorcycle. There is no way in the world I would be caught on the highway riding that wretched mosquito 🦟 looking duke. Style, looks & sound comes first. V-twins give bikes a look & style that can't be matched! For instance look at the "Yamaha V-max" it wouldn't look half as good as it does, if it didn't have a v-twin in the center of it.
FZ07/MT07 with a yoshimura is one of the best sounding bikes in the universe
redlining an inline 4 is a close second
I'm in camp FRUNK. You can't really fit one in a V-twin, but my nc700x is built around one.
Triumph Bonneville range makes sense as they've historically always been parallel twins.
I’m over here on Honda vlx 600. Yeah sure it’s kind of anemic, but I still get all the joy out of writing a V-twin.
If manufacturers have to add too many more clean air mods, a vee will make it harder to find the room, unless it's a BIG bike. Ducati haven't got much of a frame left on many of their models - to reduce weight, gain some space, while remaining fairly small package......the extra cost of producing a vee engine isn't so much of an issue for a manufacturer whose bikes are expensive.
Camp 2 wheels here. Singles, all Twins, Triples and 4s, I like em all. Electric too- easier on Tinitis ears. Thanks for a fun video!
I bought an MT07 right when it came out in 2014 and at the time it wasn't marketed as a beginner A2 compliant motorcycle. Back then it was presented as a cheaper alternative to the Ducati monster. And apart from strangely tuned suspensions it was actually good at what it set out to be. And the engine had its own identity, it vibrated way less than a V-twin or a standard 180 parallel twin and made fat torque right in the middle of the rev range. And so for a few months it was unique and fresh. Everyone else took note and tried to replicate the success meanwhile Yamaha shifted their marketing and increased the price.
I personally prefer a 270 parallel twin to a 180 or a V-twin but over the last 10 years it went from being novel and exciting to a saturated market. And Ducatis have all sorts of quirks that make them Ducatis so you either like them or you don't. Same for Harley and Guzzi really. So are V-twin going extinct? I don't think so.
11:30 I can't agree that Triumph & Yamaha will eventually drop their triples. IMO I think Triumph's identity is too firmly tied to 3 cyl bikes & Yamaha will keep their CP3 for premium models. But yes, in line twins are pretty amazing, these days.
I agree that the V-twin is turning into something like a niche for connoisseurs, but I think they forgot to add that some less traditional (western traditional, it is) builders are moving into that niche. Royal Enfield is developing a 850cc V-Twin for quite some time, and Shineray just exhibited a 1200cc V-Twin that is basically a Sporstster engine done by reverse engineering.