"This. God help us all.... is the ORIGINAL Hulk." The fact you waited all that time and let the dread and horror to build up.... I love it. Just letting THAT Hulk's presence and power be it's OWN thing... it's own terror.
I am impressed how well you handled all the different Hulk personalities. Like a mathematician explaining the complexities of 11 dimensions. Well done, sir!
Thank you for the recap, I know it's standard but it cleared something up for me, I always hated how The Professor was done away with, it being explained that he was "just another personality" and specifically a character noting that how 'unlike Bruce Banner, the Professor is confident' which left a bad taste in my mouth because of course a person who has fully come to terms with himself is likely to act far more confident than a traumatized shattered psyche. So hearing that it was fixed is a massive plus for me
6:00 Also Stevil is the reason for Bruce death. He wanted to kidnap the Ulysses, but realized he would knew about this, so he wanted to create a situation that would be bigger than this . He ordered Erik Selvig to create data that would think that Cure for Hulk was temporary, which would start for him to become hulk again.
This and Incredible are some of your best work, up there with The Day After, I'm so excited to see your perspective and analysis of this part of Hulk canon
I love how at least 3 comic reviewers I've watched have MENTIONED the being known as Onslaught, but not a single one has gone into detail on what he is save Linkara, who called it one of the most ridiculous things Marvel has ever decided to do...which for anyone unaware, it is and it isn't. To be brief so this doesn't turn into a ten paragraph post, Onslaught is what happens when Charles has had enough of Magnus' shit, and just tries to end him in the only way he, being a paralyzed man in a chair, and Magnus being a very ripped almost 80 year old, can. He mind crushes him(Yami would be proud). Thing is, as established WAAAY back in the old days, Psychic Power and Magnetic Power kind of resonate with each other, so doing this not only causes Charles to unlock the evil side of himself that he keeps under wraps, but THAT then merges with the scrapes of Magneto's personality, to create Onslaught, who is now using the two power sets that it inherited to be a BIG problem. This was all done to help setup Heroes Reborn, a small line where the 'human' heroes are shunted to an alternate universe after seemingly being killed to give them to a new creative team just to shake everything up. Regardless, Hulk's part in that is that nothing the Heroes throw at Onslaught is working, so Jean Grey decides to do the thing Chuck says. She 'Kills' Bruce Banner(originally it is described as that, later it turns out she just removed him from his body for a bit), which means there's no limiting factor on the Hulk, who is nothing BUT the rage monster. Even that is only enough to destroy Onslaught's armor and body(Which it doesn't need anymore, being made of magnetic and psychic energies). They do kill it obviously, but it was a neat shake up. Onslaught is also the villain in Marvel Vs Capcom.
That sounds like just writers bashing action figures together, made from the carcasses of characters they obliterated for cheap thrills. One mindless rage monster fighting another uncontrollable inhuman monster.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog To be fair. Onslaught was VERY good at the manipulation game, as it had the experiences of Charles and Magnus to draw on, giving it great insight into how the people around it would react, and as this was shortly after the UN helped back a faction of the Friends of Humanity(KKK but for Mutants), a lot of people saw him as the lesser evil at first. That was at FIRST. Dude very much shows quickly he is not the lesser of ANY evil, as he likes to mind drain people, has no qualms about killing for even a slight disagreement, and does some nasty stuff to people, just because.
In a way, Hulk's powers are almost chtulhunian in level. A life force so primal it is impossible to snuff out. Unstoppable, immortal, and always stronger then you think possible. Hulk, is the strongest there is.
I wish Mainstream treated him better these days, we should've had a trilogy long ago, we should have gotten a great animated/live action TV series instead of well.. nothing but the late 70s show and 96 short lived animated series(which were both great but with today's technology it should be more than a pipe dream), we should have a definitive game for him but alas for whatever reason The Hulk will only ever be aloud to be good in his own books and nothing more. Hulk Fans deserve a win for once
@@L1701 Yeah but they don't have the rights to his animations, video games, TV(live action or animation) etc. and as far as his live action movie rights go Disney has way more power in that regard, Universal only has first refusal to promoting a Solo Live Action Hulk movie but Marvel and Disney have every right to create the movie and release it. the reason why they won't is cus 1 Disney hates Universal way too much to ask them, 2 Disney simply doesn't care to make a solo Hulk project of any kind otherwise we'd have something by now weather it'd be an animated series, a live action series or even a stand alone trilogy. They could do all that but they just simply refuse to cus they don't care to and again they hate Universal way too much to ask.
I dunno, I get that it's inconsistent and hard to reconcile, but I think a setup for Immortal where you definitively conclude that the Professor and Green Scar cannot coexist with the others is misguided, given that in Immortal it's pointed out that - at the very least - both Bruce and Amadeus Cho, the two biggest Hulk experts in the Marvel Universe, believe them to be entirely separate alters. Now, this is a matter of headcanon, but I personally interpret it as "the Professor WAS an integrated version of all three, but splintered off into his own alter", which is - to my understanding - consistent with how DID actually works in real life. These things aren't static, and they can both split off and integrate together.
Also, uh, you kind of skipped over any justification for Green Scar being Savage and Joe. As far as I can tell there's no actual evidence for that other than "well he acts kinda similar"?
I know, right?! Just the lead in is amazing, and made better by Chuck's delivery/storytelling, and now I'm looking forward to the continuation/actual Immortal Hulk series.
This is from after I stopped paying attention to what Marvel was doing apart from the very broad strokes like there being a Civil War 2 so this is all new to me, and it's great so far. Will be looking forward to more.
I like how Peter David retconned the dumb stuff. He just had a powerful villain reveal he was behind all the inconsistencies and why. It's a simple method. David did the same to explain Longshot's confusing origin after it was retconned too many times. Most writers nowadays now flat out ignore previous bad issues while using stuff they approve. Not good since it leads to a confusing case of Schrodinger's continuity.
It's great a that good storyline could come out of some really bad ones. Both Civil War 2 and Secret Empire can, on my opinion, be best summed up as: *"THERE IS NO MIDDLE FINGER BIG ENOUGH!"*
I'm picturing Vin Diesel and Vin Fanilt (a character from Cyantian Chronicles, a favorite webcomic), both explaining a large chalkboard of Venn diagrams. ;)
By the way, The Order was the second comic I ever read where the Hulk was a main character. The first was that mind-bending issue you described where the different personas made a truce. It was very confusing. "So he agreed to give the nights to a rapist?"
Considering how often Superheroes die and come back, asking someone to shoot him in the head to keep them from getting sent out of control by some silliness is probably like asking them to take their car keys so they don't drive drunk.
That's my intention. My plan had been that I was going to get two scripts of this, Thanos, and Incredible already completed before I began posting, but with the problem on the Red channel, I pushed these out early.
So wait...all this time I thought Green Scar is another "perfect" Hulk like the Professor. Turns out the Green Scar/World Breaker is Savage + Joe while the Professor is all three of them. And we don't talk about Starship Hulk.
Yeah, that whole "Starship hulk" phase (introduced by Donny Cates, who didn't even finish his storyline in that run) was dumb, sometimes dumb fun, but mostly just dumb. especially egregious since it came right after the 'Immortal Hulk' run and seemingly immediatly reversed any kind of character development done there. At least the current Hulk series is back to doing horror. (for better or worse)
Correct. This why we didn’t see the green scar or the Professor personalities in the mindscape at all during the immortal Hulk run. However, Bruce, Savage Hulk and Gray Hulk were all there together at the same time. Bruce even wondered where GS and the Prof were, ultimately just figuring that they’re dormant.
I'm pretty sure that "Green Scar is Savage + Joe" is just an assumption that SFDebris is making, based on the understanding that Savage, Joe and Bruce are the only three real alters. Which, uh. That may be PAD's understanding but I don't think it's particularly substantiated.
To kind of corroborate Chuck on this, I recall when reading World War Hulk that at one point Dr Strange talks to Bruce Banner inside Hulk, and Bruce is in full agreement with Hulk so choosing not to restrain him in any way, I understand/agree if the conclusion meant from that is that Green Scar and Bruce are separate while Professor who never had a similar internal conversation is fully combined.
9:02 : First, I have to admit: Peter David's take on the Hulk is my absolute favorite, and I don't understand later interpretations of him (like Immortal Hulk). That's why I dislike the MCU version of 'Professor Hulk'. He is simply Banner in a Lesser Hulk's body, even though he said he and the 'Other Guy' came to an understanding. so we have skipped over the entire story of HOW he came to this form (and because of the distribution rights situation, we may never see this in a stand alone movie) Your review has helped me understand this "Immortal Hulk", but I will always favor my 'Science Monster' Version (and, in reality, I haven't really read many comics since the late 90s/Early 'Oughts' anyway 😅)
It's really a shame that Marvel Studios can't (because of rights issues with Universal?) or won't do a proper Hulk story, either as a movie or a show. he's basically relegated to a side character in all of his appearances. we have the Incredible Hulk series from the 70s, which I haven't watched, but from all appearances didn't really dive into the Hulk psyche. there's an 80s animated series that was... an 80s comic book animated series (with all the problems that entails) the Ang Lee movie, which has some interesting ideas but has a flawed execution (all of those comic book style transitions really didn't gel with the tone of the story) and the Ed Norton 'Incredible Hulk' movie, which I liked, but again, didn't really dive into Banner/Hulk as a character.
Honestly, I like how they did an abridged version of Planet Hulk during Thor Ragnarök. It would've been better to get a proper Hulk movie, but having his stuff be the "B plot that's really the A plot" of other movies felt like a good work around.
@@mikegates8993 I actually really didn't like it. Especially since the tone of Ragnarok was the complete opposite of the Planet Hulk story. (I think I would have rather they didn't include it at all)
![[SFM] Risky Recital](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzNkY1_Nk3o/mqdefault.jpg)
I am honestly impressed how different writers have managed to take so many different versions of the Hulk and make them work in new stories.
COMICS!
"This. God help us all.... is the ORIGINAL Hulk."
The fact you waited all that time and let the dread and horror to build up.... I love it. Just letting THAT Hulk's presence and power be it's OWN thing... it's own terror.
The Immortal Hulk was my favourite run. Al Ewing really rewrote the book on the Hulk.
I am impressed how well you handled all the different Hulk personalities. Like a mathematician explaining the complexities of 11 dimensions. Well done, sir!
This was well done. I have read as much of Hulk's books as I could a few years ago. It's so satisfying to watch you piece it all together like this.
Been looking forward to this one for sure. This hulk series youve been doing has been an interesting learning experience.
Agreed - Chuck's passion and interest in the Hulk is clear, and having seen this on the schedule was a welcome surprise
Thank you for the recap, I know it's standard but it cleared something up for me, I always hated how The Professor was done away with, it being explained that he was "just another personality" and specifically a character noting that how 'unlike Bruce Banner, the Professor is confident' which left a bad taste in my mouth because of course a person who has fully come to terms with himself is likely to act far more confident than a traumatized shattered psyche. So hearing that it was fixed is a massive plus for me
Your series on the Hulk has very much made me appreciate the character more and more.
6:00 Also Stevil is the reason for Bruce death. He wanted to kidnap the Ulysses, but realized he would knew about this, so he wanted to create a situation that would be bigger than this . He ordered Erik Selvig to create data that would think that Cure for Hulk was temporary, which would start for him to become hulk again.
This and Incredible are some of your best work, up there with The Day After, I'm so excited to see your perspective and analysis of this part of Hulk canon
Immortal hulk was really awesome and badass in my opinion.
I love how at least 3 comic reviewers I've watched have MENTIONED the being known as Onslaught, but not a single one has gone into detail on what he is save Linkara, who called it one of the most ridiculous things Marvel has ever decided to do...which for anyone unaware, it is and it isn't.
To be brief so this doesn't turn into a ten paragraph post, Onslaught is what happens when Charles has had enough of Magnus' shit, and just tries to end him in the only way he, being a paralyzed man in a chair, and Magnus being a very ripped almost 80 year old, can. He mind crushes him(Yami would be proud).
Thing is, as established WAAAY back in the old days, Psychic Power and Magnetic Power kind of resonate with each other, so doing this not only causes Charles to unlock the evil side of himself that he keeps under wraps, but THAT then merges with the scrapes of Magneto's personality, to create Onslaught, who is now using the two power sets that it inherited to be a BIG problem.
This was all done to help setup Heroes Reborn, a small line where the 'human' heroes are shunted to an alternate universe after seemingly being killed to give them to a new creative team just to shake everything up. Regardless, Hulk's part in that is that nothing the Heroes throw at Onslaught is working, so Jean Grey decides to do the thing Chuck says.
She 'Kills' Bruce Banner(originally it is described as that, later it turns out she just removed him from his body for a bit), which means there's no limiting factor on the Hulk, who is nothing BUT the rage monster. Even that is only enough to destroy Onslaught's armor and body(Which it doesn't need anymore, being made of magnetic and psychic energies). They do kill it obviously, but it was a neat shake up. Onslaught is also the villain in Marvel Vs Capcom.
That sounds like just writers bashing action figures together, made from the carcasses of characters they obliterated for cheap thrills. One mindless rage monster fighting another uncontrollable inhuman monster.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog To be fair. Onslaught was VERY good at the manipulation game, as it had the experiences of Charles and Magnus to draw on, giving it great insight into how the people around it would react, and as this was shortly after the UN helped back a faction of the Friends of Humanity(KKK but for Mutants), a lot of people saw him as the lesser evil at first.
That was at FIRST. Dude very much shows quickly he is not the lesser of ANY evil, as he likes to mind drain people, has no qualms about killing for even a slight disagreement, and does some nasty stuff to people, just because.
I look forward to this series.
Yesss this is a favorite run of my; Ewing's always does amazing work. So thrilled to hear your thoughts on this series.
Holy $#^&. The LEAD IN is impressive. I hope the event either lives up to that opening, or at least gets close.
In a way, Hulk's powers are almost chtulhunian in level. A life force so primal it is impossible to snuff out. Unstoppable, immortal, and always stronger then you think possible.
Hulk, is the strongest there is.
Lovecraftian
Sounds boring. antagonists like that are no longer characters, just a plot device.
HELL YES! this is what i been waiting for, Debris!
My favorite Hulk series.
I wish Mainstream treated him better these days, we should've had a trilogy long ago, we should have gotten a great animated/live action TV series instead of well.. nothing but the late 70s show and 96 short lived animated series(which were both great but with today's technology it should be more than a pipe dream), we should have a definitive game for him but alas for whatever reason The Hulk will only ever be aloud to be good in his own books and nothing more. Hulk Fans deserve a win for once
To be fair, when it comes to movies, Universal still has the live-action film rights to Hulk.
@@L1701 Yeah but they don't have the rights to his animations, video games, TV(live action or animation) etc. and as far as his live action movie rights go Disney has way more power in that regard, Universal only has first refusal to promoting a Solo Live Action Hulk movie but Marvel and Disney have every right to create the movie and release it. the reason why they won't is cus 1 Disney hates Universal way too much to ask them, 2 Disney simply doesn't care to make a solo Hulk project of any kind otherwise we'd have something by now weather it'd be an animated series, a live action series or even a stand alone trilogy. They could do all that but they just simply refuse to cus they don't care to and again they hate Universal way too much to ask.
I dunno, I get that it's inconsistent and hard to reconcile, but I think a setup for Immortal where you definitively conclude that the Professor and Green Scar cannot coexist with the others is misguided, given that in Immortal it's pointed out that - at the very least - both Bruce and Amadeus Cho, the two biggest Hulk experts in the Marvel Universe, believe them to be entirely separate alters.
Now, this is a matter of headcanon, but I personally interpret it as "the Professor WAS an integrated version of all three, but splintered off into his own alter", which is - to my understanding - consistent with how DID actually works in real life. These things aren't static, and they can both split off and integrate together.
Also, uh, you kind of skipped over any justification for Green Scar being Savage and Joe. As far as I can tell there's no actual evidence for that other than "well he acts kinda similar"?
Goddamnit chuck! You can't tease me with an unstoppable hate golem in the smartest mind in marvel and then say 'next time'! NEEEED
I know, right?! Just the lead in is amazing, and made better by Chuck's delivery/storytelling, and now I'm looking forward to the continuation/actual Immortal Hulk series.
just read it. it's fucking amazing that it was allowed to exist.
Wow I didn’t think you’d just straight up skip to immortal like that
Why?
@@erdood3235 Cuz his incredible retrospective ain’t even past the 70’s
Immortal Hulk storyline and art 🔥🔥🔥🔥
This is from after I stopped paying attention to what Marvel was doing apart from the very broad strokes like there being a Civil War 2 so this is all new to me, and it's great so far. Will be looking forward to more.
The Immortal Hulk: weaponizing regular resurrections for superheroes
I like how Peter David retconned the dumb stuff. He just had a powerful villain reveal he was behind all the inconsistencies and why. It's a simple method. David did the same to explain Longshot's confusing origin after it was retconned too many times. Most writers nowadays now flat out ignore previous bad issues while using stuff they approve. Not good since it leads to a confusing case of Schrodinger's continuity.
*cough* Current DC *cough*
It's great a that good storyline could come out of some really bad ones.
Both Civil War 2 and Secret Empire can, on my opinion, be best summed up as: *"THERE IS NO MIDDLE FINGER BIG ENOUGH!"*
Oh this is going to be good
Ugh, Civil War 2 and Hydra Cap. What a way to start.
13:15 I think I need a Vin Diagram for this....
I'm picturing Vin Diesel and Vin Fanilt (a character from Cyantian Chronicles, a favorite webcomic), both explaining a large chalkboard of Venn diagrams. ;)
By the way, The Order was the second comic I ever read where the Hulk was a main character. The first was that mind-bending issue you described where the different personas made a truce.
It was very confusing.
"So he agreed to give the nights to a rapist?"
My body is so ready
I've been looking forward to this for so long!
I thought Hulk was supposed to change back to Banner AS SOON as he calmed down but that does not happen, ever.
I wonder if "Grave Matters" will be covered or at least mentioned
"I shot him in the head. It's what he would have wanted." -Hawkeye apparently...
Considering how often Superheroes die and come back, asking someone to shoot him in the head to keep them from getting sent out of control by some silliness is probably like asking them to take their car keys so they don't drive drunk.
Is the Peter David run just going to be mentioned in the Incredible series?
That's my intention. My plan had been that I was going to get two scripts of this, Thanos, and Incredible already completed before I began posting, but with the problem on the Red channel, I pushed these out early.
3:56 a. It's USA
2. It's against Bruce banner
So wait...all this time I thought Green Scar is another "perfect" Hulk like the Professor. Turns out the Green Scar/World Breaker is Savage + Joe while the Professor is all three of them.
And we don't talk about Starship Hulk.
Yeah, that whole "Starship hulk" phase (introduced by Donny Cates, who didn't even finish his storyline in that run) was dumb, sometimes dumb fun, but mostly just dumb.
especially egregious since it came right after the 'Immortal Hulk' run and seemingly immediatly reversed any kind of character development done there.
At least the current Hulk series is back to doing horror. (for better or worse)
Correct. This why we didn’t see the green scar or the Professor personalities in the mindscape at all during the immortal Hulk run. However, Bruce, Savage Hulk and Gray Hulk were all there together at the same time. Bruce even wondered where GS and the Prof were, ultimately just figuring that they’re dormant.
I'm pretty sure that "Green Scar is Savage + Joe" is just an assumption that SFDebris is making, based on the understanding that Savage, Joe and Bruce are the only three real alters. Which, uh. That may be PAD's understanding but I don't think it's particularly substantiated.
To kind of corroborate Chuck on this, I recall when reading World War Hulk that at one point Dr Strange talks to Bruce Banner inside Hulk, and Bruce is in full agreement with Hulk so choosing not to restrain him in any way, I understand/agree if the conclusion meant from that is that Green Scar and Bruce are separate while Professor who never had a similar internal conversation is fully combined.
The ending gave me mixed feelings.
If you went to all the trouble of getting that Doctorate, you will darn well make people use the proper title... even if your name is ridiculous
9:02 : First, I have to admit: Peter David's take on the Hulk is my absolute favorite, and I don't understand later interpretations of him (like Immortal Hulk).
That's why I dislike the MCU version of 'Professor Hulk'. He is simply Banner in a Lesser Hulk's body, even though he said he and the 'Other Guy' came to an understanding.
so we have skipped over the entire story of HOW he came to this form (and because of the distribution rights situation, we may never see this in a stand alone movie)
Your review has helped me understand this "Immortal Hulk", but I will always favor my 'Science Monster' Version (and, in reality, I haven't really read many comics since the late 90s/Early 'Oughts' anyway 😅)
It's really a shame that Marvel Studios can't (because of rights issues with Universal?) or won't do a proper Hulk story, either as a movie or a show.
he's basically relegated to a side character in all of his appearances.
we have the Incredible Hulk series from the 70s, which I haven't watched, but from all appearances didn't really dive into the Hulk psyche.
there's an 80s animated series that was... an 80s comic book animated series (with all the problems that entails)
the Ang Lee movie, which has some interesting ideas but has a flawed execution (all of those comic book style transitions really didn't gel with the tone of the story)
and the Ed Norton 'Incredible Hulk' movie, which I liked, but again, didn't really dive into Banner/Hulk as a character.
Honestly, I like how they did an abridged version of Planet Hulk during Thor Ragnarök. It would've been better to get a proper Hulk movie, but having his stuff be the "B plot that's really the A plot" of other movies felt like a good work around.
@@mikegates8993 I actually really didn't like it.
Especially since the tone of Ragnarok was the complete opposite of the Planet Hulk story. (I think I would have rather they didn't include it at all)
Funny how a mediocre event comic would gives us the best hulk run.