This Cooler DRAWS 545W!!? Bad Cooling Ideas #2
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Visit www.squarespac... and use offer code LTT for 10% off
Get iFixit's Marlin Screwdriver set today for only $24.99 USD at www.ifixit.com...
We got a 545W Peltier cooler... sketchiness ensues.
Try out Solidworks Flow Simulation: www.solidworks...
CAD models from this video: grabcad.com/li...
Buy: A Noctua Cooler, don't get a TEC
On Amazon: geni.us/LnK7k6k
On Newegg: geni.us/8tp4
Purchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips....
Our Affiliates, Referral Programs, and Sponsors: linustechtips....
Get Private Internet Access today at geni.us/7lLuafK
Displate metal posters: lmg.gg/displat...
Linus Tech Tips merchandise at www.LTTStore.com/
Linus Tech Tips posters at crowdmade.com/l...
Our Test Benches on Amazon: www.amazon.com...
Our production gear: geni.us/cvOS
Twitter - / linustech
Facebook - / linustech
Instagram - / linustech
Twitch - / linustech
Intro Screen Music Credit:
Title: Laszlo - Supernova
Video Link: • [Electro] - Laszlo - S...
iTunes Download Link: itunes.apple.c...
Artist Link: / laszlomusic
Outro Screen Music Credit: Approaching Nirvana - Sugar High / approachingnirvana
+2 points for the solidworks flow demo and real engineering talk. More of that please tyvm.
if only they tried with a more serious cooling solution on the TEC
-10 for the TEC on CPU, and crippling the heat transfer with an Insulator.
i'm taking classes on Solid works and simulation rn
@@yoyodavid ok, but who cares?
@@hansdietrich83 nice way to be a dick
Alex: pays thousands of dollars towards an engineering degree
Also Alex: Chop chop the bottom bit
Gotta use laymans terms for non-tech
To be honest - everything he does (at least what we can see in the videos) is very sketchy engineering-wise :D Degree wont help at all if somebody cant think like an engineer...
@@Trancelebration dude built buggies and stuff, the point of this videos is to do something sketchy, not a new super product
@@yuriibondar3757 Using AC SSR for DC and pretending its funny isnt sketchy, its straight stupid :)
@@emmaisalone yet they have time to play with cfd module inside solidworks premium package which takes a lot of time. I know I know... it has to be just "good enough".
Everything goes right - Linus: "See I told you!"
Everything goes wrong - Linus: "See I told you!"
Everything goes left - Linus: "See I told you!"
WHAT!? 24:00
aka "how to act like a boss"
Everything goes up - Linus “See I told you!”
Everything goes down - Linus “See I told you!”
Linus would make a really shitty Mythbuster
Your peltie uses 900W to transfer heat. That means you have to be able to cool at least that amount with the water block. If you don't, both side start to heat.
@@xsjado_anon TEC Coolers have extremely poor thermal conductivity. They also have extremely poor efficiency. They have efficiency that put solar panels to shame, so what that means is - A 545W TEC can only move 5.45W ( ~10% like ultra super max level stuff), and to do that, it generates 539.5W of heat. Now coming back to thermal conductivity, that measly 5.45W of heat to be moved is limited by its thermal resistance, so what it means is it takes way longer to move that measly 5.45W of heat compared to a block of damn iron, much less a proper copper heat block. So, bottom line: you wanna freeze a few ml of water into ice spending hundreds of watts? Be my guest, and I assure it will work as long as you can dissipate those hundreds of watts. But Peltiers can never move enough thermal power from a strong af dynamic heat(one that continuously converts energy into heat, in contrast ambient temperature water that we were making ice out of before does not continuously compensate temperature since its heat energy is gone once it cools) source like a CPU. (And if you really wanna do it, like reaallllly badly wanna do it, for every 100W(around that for a TDP?) of cooling on the cpu you need around 100W/0.05(eff) = 2000W of peltier units, and heat dissipation capacity of 1900W and your peltier should would prolly still not be able to work out due to problems in thermal conductivity. LOL, this was a long rant, but will prolly save some idiot his money.
PS - Imma just post it in main thread too, just in case so people can see it..
@@anubhavmuku96 wait, 5.45W ain't 10% of 545W, that'd be 54.5W.
@@AryaFairywren Ah yes, right. My bad. Well, the bottom line still stays the same tho.
@@anubhavmuku96 While their efficiency isn't as good as a gas transition heat pump, it's a bit unfair to to compare performance if you're running the TEC at 545W because that displays a complete lack of understanding of how to utilize them.
The coefficient of performance of a TEC scales badly. For example I'll use the TE-127-2.0-1.15 module.
If you run the TEC at 3v, you can pump ~25W of heat, with around 35W of waste heat with a temp difference of 10 degrees each side.
If you run the TEC at 15v, you can pump ~110W of heat, without around 350W of waste heat with a temp difference of 10 degrees each side.
That's 10x the wattage, for only 4x the amount of heat it can move from the cold side.
That's why it's insane to run a TEC at 545W, it's much more efficient to run many of them at low wattage.
True. And there is no way that this little block can cool 500W.
I dunno but linus is addicted to pc cooling
💯%
@@TugAndThugComputing Johnny Johnny did you forget to change your account ?
You mean he's addicited to making PC.. cooler? :DDDDDD
@@the_guy_with_yeeyee_a_haircut uh
@@Agant. mostly yess :D
You'd be better off putting the TEC cooling on the radiator to get lower than ambient, then you'd need another water cooler just to cool the TEC plate. You could get the water as cold as you want and not even worry about condensation.
We're getting into Nuclear Reactor type cooling setups now. This is the LTT experiment that needs to happen.
That’d be cool
Same idea man xD
This is EXACTLY what I was going to say, this is how the Coolit tec coolers work. I still use a Coolit Freezone Elite and it works amazing after 12 years. I did have to replace the pump once but the peltiers are still working great. And that cooler can easily take up to 350w of cooling and it's in a small form factor. If they adapted that method with those radiators, it would be able to easily cool 1800w. Hell those radiators ALONE should be able to take 1200-1500w with just fans.
If implemented properly that setup should be able to keep that whole system including sli gpus in the water loop around ambient temps on load.
Yeah, but... What if you get condensation in your water?
For future reference, get a CO2 extinguisher. It will still put out the fire, but wont hose your expensive GPU.
and maybe remove the safty pin too..... ;)
CO2 extinguishers don't work for electrical fires. For those, you need to get a powder extinguisher. Which would, by the way, still hose your expensive GPU.
@@Z3DT Maybe not... as long as the powder is not thermal conductive, a quick clean and the GPU should still work.
@@Z3DT just grabbed one of my extinguishers. An FE36 will work. Rated B,C so it will work on electrical fires. So no nuking components =D
@@Z3DT Read the label. CO2 extinguishers were designed for electrical fires. They do not work on grease fires.
I love Alex's face when Linus is speaking to the camera. The face of a kid who's waiting for their parent to finish talking with their friend.
The face of someone who has witnessed many many horrors.
Linus: "It was a learning experience"
Alex: "Yeah"
Linus: "About listening to your boss next time"
.
.
.
.
.
.
Alex: "WHAT?"
"does not compute"
@@Desser57sléttu sléttu
I'm with Alex in that one
@@karikrummi4222 why is it flat
@@ImMonoToast song
Why not cool the water instead of the processor with a bunch of peltiers?
though the same thing, if this isnt the next thing they try it will probably be forgotten. cooling water would definitely work tho.
Build a buffer of cold water and in normal use it would work great, gaming for 24 hours or even 8 hours would probably overwhelm it
I second this!
@@H3nryum not if you cool it with normal radiators before going extra with peltiers after those.
I was just about to say this, you can run it at full power even.
Just do a thermal coil of some sort into the radiator
I like to think that Linus knows all of his sponsors off by heart and all he needs is someone to tell him what the sponsors is.
Who buys an expensive tap then doesn't use a vice?
alisdair butler it wouldn’t be LTT without some jenk
The funny thing is they have a vice
Linus - because what you fail to understand is, it only has to be "straight enough" - stop fussing over doing it right when you can do it janky.
My guess is people who are better at using software than tools? I am hoping to meet me someone who is good at everything, let me know if you find them.
@@AugmentedKing They're called engineers
"There's no way we can just finish like this"
*Finishes just like this
womp womp
i thought it you said it...
...waiting for a #3.
Forget the thermoelectric effect. Hook that sucker up to the compressor on an actual AC unit.
Linus has an AC unit based system (that does work).
It's been done and it's very effective. Only problem is size of the machine.. it's about as big as the system it's cooling.
didn't asetek do double phase pc coolers at one point?
I have a single phase built in a case, that runs on 12v - very effective on the Athlon 64 x2 it cooled at the time!
See, the thing is, they’re not doing this because its a good idea. They do it because they can.
@@harambeexpress (barely)
"So the block design is working as intended- OH MY GOD WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!"-Linus in a nutshell
I only hit the left arrow key to rewatch that about 20 times, ya know. the usual.
@@PhaseFalcon same lol
I did my HS physics project on TECs and I found that one of the biggest problems with them is that their faces are not flat at all and since they are ceramic they are difficult to flatten so I had to compensate with globs of thermal paste and even then it was bad plus hot side temps matter almost as much as cold side since a high delta caused by insufficient cooling leads to heat leaking to the cold side lowering efficiency. Future improvement could be done by flattening the TEC with an end-mill or facing on a lathe, stacking TECs, and direct contact vs an additional copper plate(that slot for the thermal-couple wasn't helping anything.
It'd probably be better to lap the surfaces with a diamond cutting compound.
So.. liquid metal^^
About the piece of copper in between: I thought that too but then there would be no way to regulate the temperature.
:)
I was going to say, what if they removed the bottom plate and liquid metaled it the bottom of the ceramic direct to the cpu ? They never checked if the bottom plate was getting cold only the hot side
Next video:
Can you cool a PC with radiators from the ISS?
„After telling you about our sponsor: NASA!“
Overclocking from the dark side of the moon.
Well with this we were able to reach temperatures around 10K...
I know it's a joke, but normal radiators won't work in space
What about Water cooled Mobo ..... Mobo literally in water... 100% heat transfer, nothing wasted.
GEOTHERMAL cooled pc. It might be just crazy enough.
While we're doing that lets put a PC in outer space
Do you know that that would pretty much mean heating the pc rather than cooling it
not really if the water or whatever is like 25* it might actually work
Microsoft did it off Ireland. Works great.
Already been done actually..
A few years ago some startup company created a bitcoin mining facility inside a mountain.
The mountain already had a building tunneled out inside as it used to be an old Russian military base.
The temperature is so low inside that they have no cooling.
16:10 their funnel has a label saying "FUNNEL"
They also have a hammer labeled "HAMMER"
Well what would _you_ do to remember what it is?
its for people who dont know this stuff better to just label everything.
@@itsomegali5342 who tf doesnt know what a funnel or a hammer looks like
When you have a label maker, everything gets labeled. Everything.
Linus 2019: 'A PID controller is like an On/Off switch'
Linus 2020: 'A computer is like a spinich'
Linus 2021: A spinach is like a rock
Linus 2022: A rock is like a stone
Linus 2023: Weekends are like applesauce
@@AaronzDad "Weekends are like Applesauce" sounds like a Dave Barry book title.
For those who have not heard of PID controllers, it's more like a smart, variable power supply that goes positive and negative.
"There is no way we can just finish like this"
DO YOU NEED A BEAUTIFUL WEBSITE WITHOUT ALL THAT HASSLE?
The relay itself is the problem:
First, it's for AC power and expects the voltage to turn zero at some point. It turns off in the zero crossing.
DC voltage never turns to zero, so the relay will never turn off.
Also, it has a 1.6 volt voltage drop, so the peltier gets only 10.4 volts.
Please use a MOSFET next time. It will work way better, and we get to see even more sketchy LTT electronics. I love these videos!
do you expect LTT to actually know how to wire a mosfet? inb4 they use it in the linear zone and blow it up..
@@emperorSbraz Alex looks like a pretty capable guy, in the case he didn't know, he'd be capable of wiring a MOSFET correctly with a Google search.
It's just they don't care of doing this kind of projects more correctly, the concept is pointless to begin with
I assume the relay is a dumb component controlled by the thermo controller, which outputs the PID pulse to switch the relay (that switch the power). Therefore I'm not sure if it really matters if it is for controlling AC or DC.
I assume he used the PID as a modulating ( on/off) controller to drive the relay. Rather than a PI control loop. Doesn't look like it would of mattered tho.
@@FlameRat_YehLon Solid state relays are usually just a box with a thyristor inside. Thyristors can turn a current on, but they cannot turn it off. Only useful for AC since the current goes to zero 100 (120) times per second. With DC, the current doesn't go through zery by itself, thus the thyristor doesn't turn off.
May I suggest you try using a logic level mosfet next time instead of a solid state relay, Alex? Because as you probably found out during the making of this video, you cannot use a solid state relay to switch DC 🙄🤣 They can only be used to switch AC waveforms that cross through zero.
A solid state relay (henceforth SSR) is nothing more than a triac with an additional zero crossing detection circuit. Although they are very different, the triac component in a SSR performs a function similar to that of a mosfet; where, for example, an active logic signal causes a current to flow.
A very important difference between a mosfet and a triac is that once latched (and conductive) the triac cannot unlatch (and return to a state of isolation) unless the AC waveform crosses through zero, where as a mosfet can unlatch at will.
This is the function of the zero crossing detection circuit; all it does is ensure that if the triacs logic signal becomes active somewhere halfway through the AC waveform, the actual latching of the triac is delayed until the waveform once again crosses through zero. Latching at any other point during the AC waveform has the serious potential of resulting in an enormous (potentially triac destroying) current surge immediately upon latching. Unless you're lucky, and the triac happens to latch precisely at the zero crossing point of the AC waveform, after which the current is allowed to rise gradually with the voltage.
_[Important note: just as a triac is unsuitable for switching DC, a mosfet is unsuitable for switching AC!]_
I hope this clears things up a bit 😁 I know the chance you'll read this is so low I might as well be talking to a wall, but perhaps there is a slight chance another soul will come and stumble across this information and find it useful somehow. Who knows, they might potentially even learn something 😊
(If I made a mistake please correct me in a reply to this comment _in a friendly manner please_ and I'll happily modify this comment!)
It seems that Alex, just like me, is a mechanical engineer. We know very little about electricity (I've had like 2 classes in university for one semester). I learned everything what I know when I was working in electronic retail shop as my first job. I did my master's degree on Meredith's effect and pressure carburetors!
SSR's work just fine with DC signals and do not require any zero crossing. There are IGBT, Mosfet and Bipolar versions from different manufacturers.
You are thinking of an AC-only Solid State Relay... basically an optically isolated triac.
Crydom D2D40 is a perfect example.
They could have just avoided the high current switching by using the enable pin on the power supply
Linus: "we need it to spread the cooling"
Alex: *silently cringing in the distance*
Alex looks so cute around that section. At 4:09.
It's as bad as when someone explains transistors by saying "the holes move".
Thought for sure they would cause a brownout on the west coast.
From only 900w? A microwave at full power is often over 1200w.
@@Combatpzman Not sure if you are being ironic, but the microwave only runs for few minutes (usually), that thing is supposed to be on for hours. ;)
@@Combatpzman Anything is possible when Linus is involved.
@@ZpeedTube Nothing ironic about it. The point is that in the grand scheme of things 900w is nothing. Is it a lot for a desktop computer meant for home use? Of course. For example A small window AC unit, which people run for hours, typically operates between 900-1200W depending on how hard it needs to work. A large outdoor unit would far exceed that. As would say your household oven, a washing machine, and more.
@Combatpzman
Amplifiers used for concerts are usually 1500 to 3000W, and they are often running ten or more of them at the same time.
Thought I'd see my *grandkids* before this video.
nah you'll be dead before they're born
@@Noksus oof
I thought I'd get a girlfriend before this video came out
A Linus 😁
thought I'd see my dad...
Linus TEC Tips
Overpowering peltier module raises its temperature instead of dropping it if heat removal isn't ideal.
There is a fine line of goodness.
Exactly this - at high power a TEC just becomes a resistive heater on both sides.
The water block is so thin
You're correct, I'm pretty sure the seebeck effect exists even if overpowered passed it's specifications, but it becomes that much harder to cool (resistive heating increases at a faster rate than the cooling effect) and the delta between the two sides decrease as the hot isn't cooled at a fast enough rate. The resistive heating effects always exist in it, that is why the final cooling solution needs to be able to cool a thermal load that is the peltier + the object being cooled.
@@guydevries8197, the massive of the water block isn't necessarily that important. The mass just effects the blocks heat capacity, but the main importance is the interface between the fluid and block, which is actually what moves the thermal energy out of the system.
"we have a tap wrench."
*Proceeds to use it without a vise.*
Also doesn't lubricate it...
Also, if you push too much heat into the TEC, it becomes an insulator.
You must have watched the last video they did on them!
@Owl Gaming no, it means they work. You should do it.
@Owl Gaming *whoosh*
"award winning templates" I 100% want to go to the awards ceremony for best web developing templates.
long story short, linus tech tips still doesn't understand TEC's.
"Waste heat from the TEC..." - yeah, I always thought TECs were essentially heat pumps, transferring heat from one side to the other. I imagine there's some heat from internal resistance, but that sounds a wee bit odd.
Or much else.
Standard.
@@MattExzy You get two separate heat sources with a TEC the heat being pumped based off the power you put into it and the heat generated from the power put into it. From everything i've seen you want to run them at 60% capacity for maximum heat pumped and minimal heat generated within the TEC. The PED was a step in the right direction but it still only controls how long the TEC is on maximum cooling like a thermostat for an A/C.
@@Championjcc608 TEC's are simple electric heat pumps. I hope Alex/Linus revisit this because they made that stuff all sorts of wrong and I would like to see a high wattage TEC implemented correctly. They need a much larger copper/aluminum block on the cold side to act as a buffer and a variable wattage power supply programmed to the heat differential in between the cpu side and the cold side of the TEC to try and keep it optimal. They were just wasting a lot of power and overloading the TEC.
and also blew up the one in the vid with waaaay over spec voltage
20:52 this whole part seems very similar to the chernobyl accident...
“We’re at 900 watts on this thing!”
@@AndreiTache now add Mega before watts
There's no way that little water flow can stop it from overhearting
Yeah exactly. That needed serious water flow, the water block heating up that quickly says it and/or the water flow were undersized.
The sad thing is, that they don't understand peltiers apperently. The water was not able to get the heat away. Meaning the peltier cannot cool and will just act as a heater. Linus brilliant idea: Cranck up the heater you put on your cpu even higher.
Thanks!! Yah i would not rull out this before they can keep the hot side alot cooler.. as i recall the delta t will drop when getting hotter.. so a theoretical hot/cold temp of 70c is not at a burning hot side.
It is not a good solution power wise!
I did an 85w with water on a celeron 300@504 -17c idle 0c load..
Back in the day.
Peltiers never gonna work on something that is actively producing heat like a CPU ... The actual cooler is the radiator here ... If they directly use it with the CPU and water block it would do better job ...
@@anikdey2100 explain to me why my old cpu was -19c at idle and 0c under load with peltier and water.. with a room temp of 22c
*Linus* - "tech cooling is and was a bad idea"
*Intel / cooler master* - "Hold our beers"
Linus - "were gonna use tec, in the worst possible way you can"
@@phillstevenson4931 they really did the worst possible design they could. The copper part on top of the tec for water cooling
it -that was actually obvious its not gonna dump the heat- was a beautiful, neat, amazing mess 😂
It’s rated at 32 amps, and we’re expecting 32 amps...
Yeah, I’m just going to stand back here, behind the plexiglass, with the fire extinguishers.
Always use things that are rated for a higher load than what you are expecting. Helps keep things from burning and exploding.
yeah, don't you generally only run about 80% of a wire's maximum rating for safety?
@@MmMerrifield There are rating for continuous use. Using exactly the gauge rating is not it ;)
Yeah... a fire extinguisher with the safety pin still in it. Very useful in case of electrical fires, I tell you.
"If I have to blast a TITAN RTX I'm gonna be so pissed off"
I'm sure there is a cheap as crap PCIe graphics card somewhere in the warehouse they can use until they are satisfied it's booting correctly before testing further
Would also had helped in the event of shit going sideways if he had pulled the pin for the extinguisher before pointing it.
But where is the fun in that?
Alex: There’s no way we can just finish like this.
Linus: *smiles*
*AD STARTS PLAYING*
Can you guys PLEASE partner with Cody's Lab and create a MERCURY COOLED CPU PUMP!! I say do it with Cody'sLab mostly because he's always down to do something stupid and dangerous with Mercury like flush a toilet with it, but also because he just has the Mercury to spare to help out with a Mercury cooled PC. MAKE IT HAPPEN!
You know it's going to be a good video when Alex puts on is engineer uniform...
+10 to intelligence.
not a very good engineer obviously.
i think an air cooling will suit for this because TEC is "collect" heat extreme fast, air cooler just fit very well for this. Water cooling transfer heat isn't that fast compare to a huge metal fin heat sink.
im getting whole room flashbacks with those fans and radiator, the cable mess and evrything..
Everyone gangsta till the cooler draws 696969 watts
LOL I haven't programmed a PID in two decades now, but looks like they're still just as PITA as ever. Sad to see it didn't even help. BUT (dun dun dun!) maybe putting the Peltier cooler on the CPU itself was the bad idea. What if it was used as a secondary cooling phase (so placed after the rad) to cool the water going into a normal CPU water block? So CPU - AIC - Peltier - CPU? So two sets of radiators. An AIC for the CPU and a massive rad for a janky Peltier. Arguably (not really) pointless as you COULD just use the massive rad alone to cool the CPU in a normal watercooled setup ... but where's the fun in doing things the sane way?
I 100% agree with this and have spent a lot of time looking to see what it would take to do this. I'd put the main rad on the top blowing, and the other on the front...
I said the same, albeit not nearly as well stated. 2 phase cooling! Do it!
Man, they should do some of this awesome invention videos with ElectroBOOM, it would be awesome.
Javier Macias good idea! The whole studio would be on FIRE!
Shortage on 10K $$ so AWESOME!!!
They could continue this project with the awesome TechIngredients
best idea ever
if you do water cooling aswell, then I would rather use the Peltier to cool the water and not the chip directly
That makes slot more sense
Alex is a genius! This is exactly what LTT should be all about! MAKE IT WORK!
18:42 My favorite part of the video, it was totally necessary!
Luke was the king of janky projects
Was?
have you seen floatplane?
@@BlazeABD no? What happend?
Now Alex is the king
What about the privacy monitor, Luke knifed a display
Alex&Linus videos always feel like a what-if articles in a video format. And I absolutely love every second of it.
Why not use the peltier as a "radiator", cooling the water, and not directly on the processor?
And what would you use to cool the hot side?
@@TwskiTV Another peltier obviously
@@TwskiTV elsa.
@@TwskiTV another water cooling radiator?
And then another water cooling loop to cool the loop that's coolong the peltier
Interesting. I'd often wondered about using a Peltier for PC cooling, but not directly on the CPU. My thought was to use it more passively, in conjunction with a fan at the front or rear of the case to cool the air flowing into the case by 5 or 10 degrees while drawing only minimal power. The idea being that if the air being supplied to your standard air- or water-based CPU cooling rig is slightly cooler than ambient, you would see some increase in the performance of your cooling rig overall. Kind of like keeping servers in an air conditioned room, but in this case using a little modular box on the back of the case to create the AC effect. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this, Linus.
So you're telling me you've got a T-series temperature controller ( 5:05 )
How did you notice that? The text is so small!
I'd be more surprised by a PewDiePie controller
@@twistiv don't know if this is a whoosh moment but like I noticed it without seeing this comment right away
Waiting for this comment to blow up...
Der Bauer build a very capable TEC-cooler years ago. Maybe ask him for advice
Is that guy even human???
Tecs get less efficient as the power consumption goes up so cranking it up to 900w might not be as effective as keeping it at 200w. Also expect a 10c delta across the tec so for sub ambient multiple tecs should be used with a larger cooling system
"So we got this high power module."
Module. As in modular.
I'm betting on a sweet spot on 2-300w into the TEC. Any more would demand way to much from the heat sink. I think the copper water block got overwhelmed, not enough water flow and speed.
I do the opposite of this. I use multiple TECs in a small cooling system but the system is half-assed and intended for chilling multiple things in a water loop, not forcing heat away from a TEC in the loop.
@@hank7281 im not sure what point you're trying to say. No shit the tec is a module. What does that have to do with anything
@@DaemonForce they overloaded the one radiator. He calculated 500w without including the cpu heat. And even then it was at 50c meaning the cold side would be at 40.
Instead of trying to cool with the peltier directly you should try to use a standard water cooled loop setup but after the water has cooled in the radiator it should pass true the peltier then and get cooled to ambient or even sub ambient.
DO THIS
"It's probably the jankiest thing we've ever made" Alex just reminding us he wasn't around for Scrapyard Wars.
What on scrapyard wars was yankier than alex' cooling adventures
@@diewollsocke2674 the DIY water-cooling episode.
@@diewollsocke2674 Linus climbing a tree to fill a tube with sugar
Was thinking I would love to see another junkyard wars
"It's probably the jankiest think we've ever made" yet
"There's no way we can just finish like this"
[HARD CUT TO SPONSORS]
It was perfect. ^^
this setup is a fail... cool the water with a custom peltier heat exchanger, before it enters a normal waterblock.
@@gerthddyn ohh ok
Linus would be the only person holding live wires carrying 900 WATTS and getting exited
Plenty of people have held live wires and got excited...
Better to be excited rather than shocked
its just 24v, not going to harm him!
@@user-hm9fj9nc1o Fr
@@zanw.awesome3102 but stil if things go wrong 900 watts is 900 watts
Hi linus, very interesting video, Just an idea why not remove the Peltier totally away from the CPU side and place it near towards the cooling radiator "with a large fan heatsink block Like the Notchua NH-D15" that way you won't subject the Peltier to direct heat >90C, you will still be able to use the copper water block and that way might work? as your cooling the water flow, would be interesting to try out as a experiment ??? might have to use antifreeze if it works well :)
Wasn't that what they did with that cooling thing from the previous video? There the peltier modules were attached to those heatsinks, which weren't connected to the CPU (they were given heat via water tubing).
"This is PID controller!" Then explains that it works like standard, dumb, simple hysteresis controller... 🤣
Yes but it's pulse width modulated...hint use 4-20ma output and behave like a lamp dimmer
@@johngermain5146 Are you sure? I saw it going crazy with cooling and then opposite. No glance with stable PID (or slowly going out of stable stage).
@@MariuszChr 1st they autotuned the PID controller at possibly room temperature. Then, like you said, the temperature ramped down then up so fast that it appeared to function as an on/off controller which as we know has a few degrees of hysteresis. Had the tuning been performed at the temperature of interest, and the temperature rate of change wasn't so fast we would have seen the relay operating within the proportional bandwidth. The relay is on/off only so the only way to control the temperature within the proportional band is to adjust the duty cycle which will work but is not as good as true PID with adjustable voltage output which you can get with 4-20ma output. It was all in fun and reminded me of the days when I worked on temperature controlled plating tanks using steam to heat the solution. Steam holds a lot of heat capacity and temperatures rocket up as soon as a little is released. Thanks for the input.
Their SSR was designed for AC power (it has triac inside). So when they applied power relay was locked to on state
@@matucha123 We were using the SSR to turn the PSU on and off (from the plug)
Linus: But hey it was a learning experience.
Alex: Yeah.
Linus: About listening to your boss next time.
Alex: *WHAT?*
Watching Linus tap that plexi is _physically painful_
Why did you buy that workshop of you're gonna ignore it!
8@
The workshop section was them standing at a computer explaining their plan/designs. The lack of machining/fabrication footage was really disappointing.
@@superliljohn91 its pretty neat seeing lazer cutting machines and cnc machines working. Getting a false back on my desk using lazer cutting
Dunno why they aren't putting the tap in a drill press to keep it square...
@@robywankenobi32 Doubt he has one, he could have put it flat on the table though. Every time he does DIY it's painful.
It breaks my heart that this didn't work, but I still feel like there has to be a way to get sub-zero CPU temps consistently without hazards even if the tradeoff is energy use/heat mitigation...
It's simple, an air conditioner
there is... these guys just went about it stupidly...... this works if you dont do it the way they did.....cool the water tank not the cpu directly
"They're rated at 32 amps...and we're expecting 32 amps, so..."
An amazing safety factor of 1
@@Kyros9119 I think that's a safety factor of 0 ;)
a safety factor of maybe...
@@wobblysauce a safety factor of probably
@@Kyros9119 The safety factor should already be in the rating, so it could actually handle more than 32A, but it is only rated at 32A.
17:45 "Don't touch that!" D:
electroboom: explodes and catches fire
10:56
"It only needs to be straight enough"
- Linus, 2019
I'm fairly sure Yvonne will say that Linus *is* straight enough.
But probably only just.
I want another channel that is run by Alex where he just does design and engineering stuff in a lot of detail. It doesn't need to be this kind of camera or editing quality, I'd just like to see... DETAILS.
And actually give him the time to complete projects and not have to throw them together at the very end.
@@zac.s Knowing myself and my perfectionism, I don't think a lot would be finished finished. Everything would always be imperfect and not yet ready.
I noticed that since Linus first started this project the stock in UPS power supply company's rose dramatically.
The PS part in UPS already means power supply. "UPS power supply" is redundant.
@@megapro125 No, he's trying to supply power to power supplies with power supplies
.
.
.
Actually I think they're called load banks.
Couldn't you use the tech to cool the water instead?
But how efficient is your water block for directly cooling a CPU..?? How did you forget that.
@@guptadagger896 the whole point of tec is sub ambient cooling potential
@@mikecrapse5285 Then why not use the TEC to cool the incoming water to sub ambient instead?
@@mikecrapse5285
Cooling a 200W system with extra 420W load of cooler ! WTF is math ?
Even AIO vendors sell Asetek equipments under their name, they do test it gradually for every +1°C temp to find efficiency, economy & failure points. No one goes rushing for peak values.
@@frederf3227 Doesn't worth it, overclockers tried it 15+ years ago & yield is so short as compared to LN2.
Also you have keep eye on pump & flow rate, cause as you go up for more cooling there are chances of freezing & choking the path, eventually *zappp...!*
the design didn't make sense why make a custom block instead of just using the TEC to cool the res water or the rad instead
make a custom rad instead of a custom block
As suggested by some commenters, it would be way better to cool the water using the TEC and stay within its maximum efficiency zone. More power doesn't mean more cooling. You'll have to dump that heat the TEC is generating somewhere or it will start to heat up. Cool the CPU loop radiator with multiple TECs and cool the multiple TECs with another loop. That way the CPU block should receive cooler water and the TECs dump their heat into another radiator so it doesn't interfere with the CPU loop. In theory, this _should_ work as long as you don't overdrive the TECs.
I cant help but feel like there is less steps in my car's cooling than what you guys are trying to acomplish here with a pc
@omgwtf696969 also goes through a spring loaded thermostat which switches between not cooling (whilst warming up) or cooling the water via the radiator when up to temp. also the radiator has a relay or dual relay which controls a fan which turns on when the water going through the radiator is not being cooled sufficiently. ie sitting in traffic with no airflow through the radiator or driving too fast and making more heat than the radiator can cool. every step in a car's cooling system is basically the same is their cooling idea except the tec is the engine. If any component, fan, thermostat or water pump fail then your engine can overheat and become damaged.
I'm somewhat familiar with cooling as me and my dad replaced almost every part of the cooling in my first car cause it kept overheating, in the end we even replaced the whole engine but the overheating never stopped and the car eventually killed itself. Maybe that's why this video reminded me of it. 😅
5:05 on the bottom right side was really disappointing.
what
Next time ask der8auer for some help. He used peltierelements in many of his videos.
💪
You can speak German? Because Roman born in Germany
@@abdulmuhaimin5274 Roman speaks English just fine.
@@abdulmuhaimin5274 just look at his channel. He also Uploads bis Videos in englisch or at lest with subtitles.
"We need to hit this thing with a Load." -Linus
Your solid state relay is an AC one not a DC one....
bingo! AC ssr's will latch on due to the wave never reaching a zero point.
@@thewelderdude He said they had AC in that box so I assume they had AC hooked to the relay and the DC to the input side which was rated to 32VDC. Later with the variable supply they took the pid and all that out.
But TEC is DC
@@excitedbox5705 the AC was for the PID controller itself. if the SSR was switching the power supply that fed the TEC, then it would of been ok.
@@thewelderdude Yea, I went back to try and see how they wired it but there wasn´t a good view of it. Obviously that is not gonna work.
5V is better for a Peltier. 12V or even more is not ideal... a 5V power supply running at least 4 to 5 amps would be ideal. and don't sandwich the Peltier at the CPU... it would work better after the radiator removed most of the heat. the loop would look more like: pump then radiator then Peltier with water pass-thru water block on one side and a normal heat sink with a fan on the other side and then the CPU and back to the pump... your water block could not dissipate at the speed it was heating up, due to the density of layers and as the Peltier is actually not an efficient material at those temperature ranges. displacement of heat would actually be withheld at the first layer of copper at the CPU side. the idea is to cool down the loop and not the CPU directly as this will give you more control over temperature ranges and condensation at the wrong places and it would render the P.I.D. useless because if the temperature of the loop reaches anything below 10 degrees celsius, it would start acting as an air-conditioner and cool the air moving thru the radiator witch means it would cool the components around that area by siphoning the warm energy to equalize both inner and exterior temperatures around the radiator... yes it does consume a lot of electricity to use such a system on a desktop... but as this was not the idea to conserve energy, it would be nice to see such a system actually working for the Linus Tech Tips Team. just a reminder, I am actually a fan of what you guys do and would love if this contributed something to the Peltier experiment! it would be great to see another try at this!
13:00 you could just flip the polarity
They have a preferred polarity, and you should get it right if you are going to nearly double the max power
@@abrickwalll it's not about the power, it's about the energy from within
@@Leadvest OK now i will know
@Ali Nassereddine i knew i wasnt the only one FUCK lol....... I kept trying to wipe it off and then i thought my monitor was scratched
@alexi Todaze goddamn you i kept trying to wipe the hair off my screen.... and then when i couldnt i thought my monitor was fucked up and/or scratched..
I'll be honest, I think Whole Room Water Cooling was one of the best things ever, and I want a new version of it. I don't know what they could do at this point, but I think it was an awesome idea, and could absolutely work. I've seen similar setups work extremely well with only a couple computers, and LTT has the capacity and means to do a "whole room" unlike so many others.
Some day I hope they do a 2.0, or have a reason to. Maybe just not the editors den..
When Linus Tech Tips is slowly turning into Linus Engineering Tips
LOL !!!!! noob-engenieering maybe
now what about cooling the water with peltier instead of fans and a radiator?
This. I have cooled a couple of older builds with a TEC cooled water loop. Involves 2 waterblocks, but much more uniform results. It's all about getting the heat away from the TEC. That's where alot of people don't go far enough with.
I’ve considered using one of those pettier beer fridges for a chiller in that manner.
@@vwsavage120 you really are a Savage ^^
They tried this first and it also didn't work
@@stereotypicalLame it must work if only this guys can do that properly.
Do a massive heat spreader. But have the computer in a vacuum so no condensation can form. And send they bad boy cryogenic.
You're doing it wrong. Totally wrong. First of all, Peltier elements efficiency is inversely proportional to thermal differential. I.e. the less heat they need to transfer the less Watts of electrical power they need per Watt of transferred thermal power. So, to transfer 200W of heat from CPU, you'd need a cooling system which can dissipate 500W-1kW of heat, so hot side of Peltier element wouldn't be hotter than 10-15C than it's cold side. And if it says 500W, that doesn't mean that you should crunk it up at least to 500W. Actually, that means that over 500W this element is useless or even worse that nothing. Because all that electrical power converts into heat energy. So, not only you didn't moved all your heat energy from cold side, you even added more heat energy from electrical power and only thing preventing all this nonsense from burning in fire is ridiculously powerful water cooling station.
You should've keep to at most 200W or less power to your Peltier element. And if you'd keep temperature differential in 15C range, that should move ~200-300W of heat energy.
And I think more smaller elements is better than one large.
Actual benefit of Peltier elements in cooling system is that you can go in sub-ambient temperatures. While with conventional cooling systems you can't do even a tiny bit below it, no matter how huge your system is, with Peltier you can keep it, say, ~5C lower than room temp (to avoid condensation) with slightly more powerful cooling system.
this. he doesn't seem to be testing at which power the device is most efficient. also, for some reason he's fixated on the idea that the peltier element needs to be used to cool the cpu directly, when the application is also rather successfully used to cool the inside ambient air moving towards normal thermal tube heat exchangers via "mini A/Cs" which install outisde the housing and keep the condensation in a small reservoir which can be drained...... I think a peltier cooling block, much like the one in this video, placed after the radiator, which only cools the coolant moving towards the CPU further should be tested as well... but instead they seem fixated on the idea that the element has to be placed directly on the CPU, which repeatedly fails every test...
linus: its so dangerous might catch on fire
also linus: puts it with RTX TITAN and Crystalic rams
@linustechtips this setup is not a good setup -- it's inefficient.
Placing the TEC between the processor and the water cooling loop makes no sense -- if the water cooling loop is good enough to cool the TEC, then it is also good enough to cool down the CPU which will be cooler than the TEC which is cooling it.
What you should have done is plugged the CPU directly into the loop, and also plugged a TEC into the loop independently, which is cooling the WATER in the loop. This would be a way to ensure that the TEC is only a benefit in the loop.
With that said, even if you do add an independent TEC to the loop, it would be more efficient to plug whatever is cooling that TEC module into the loop instead of the TEC, because whatever is cooling the TEC needs to have greater cooling capacity than the TEC itself. You'd have a benefit to plugging a TEC this way if you wanted to cool something below room temperature, but otherwise, a TEC will always create more heat than it disperses.
This. I've been curious about cooling water with TEC idea a long time and might do it on my own if LTT stop here with this video series.
@@didyliduu if you do end up making that video, try also testing the full loop, just without the TEC -- that is, the cooling for the TEC still connected directly to the loop, only without of the TEC. I'm sure this kind of comparison will show why a TEC is not a good idea for this kind of application more clearly :)
@@petabrain Not gonna film anything, its jusy for my own fun :)
Yes it's inefficient (TECs are inherently inefficient) but if the water cooling system is up to the job and the TEC is appropriately sized then it will provide superior cooling compared to just water cooling. Without a TEC the cpu will always be hotter than the water, with a TEC the CPU could be below the temperature of the water. The main problem here was simply down to a bunch of parts thrown together without any actual engineering thought going into it.
@@ferrumignis There is quite a distinction between the goals of cooling and the goals of heat dissipation.
Yes, you can achieve lower temperatures more rapidly by using a TEC. However, while you use the TEC, you will have a component which is dissipating heat from the other side of the TEC. That component, which is dissipating heat off of the TEC while it is working, will always have greater heat dissipation capacity than the TEC.
This is because the TEC will always produce more heat than the heat that it removes. If heat dissipation is your goal (which, it is with CPUs -- lower than ambient temperature will get your rig wet with condensation), then you will be able to achieve greater heat dissipation by plugging whatever it is you have been using to dissipate heat off of the TEC, directly to your loop, without the TEC.
Smart to incorperate your other show into a normal video!
Hope the WAN show get's more views, because of this! 👌🏼
Nice moves, keep it up!
MusicForHours *one of their other shows
If your (Cooler) needs a (Cooler) to Cool down then your Cool (😎) HiHi
"It worked really well for quite a while." - Alex on the Hindenburg
RIP 36 Hindenburg Victims
@Rob Rutgers Fotografie 😂 Yeah, technically 🤷🏼♂️
Man, alex's stuff is getting super impressive. Kudos to you guys
Linus took thermal paste lessons from the verge 😂😂
15:03 the graphics card looks like a wii from that angle lol
Linus Tech Tips -Canada's high-tech version of the Red-Green show
Haha awesome I miss that show. Linus should do a comedy tech themed show like The Red Green Show it would be hilarious.
Yeah, thermoelectric coolers aren't really meant to cool a continuous heat load like that very well. I knew an engineer who specializes in thermoelectric coolers and the main scenario he used them for was when a piece of equipment needed to be kept at a very precise temperature, such as optics in a spy plane camera.
Hahaha. Linus, the shittiest explanation of PID. xD #loveit
they are pretty shitty at most of the things
Why even use the PID function? Just use it On/off with some hysteresis.
@@erat91 for what they are doing it would have been simpler just to have a relay, and if it gets hot, on, gets cold, off. CPU's are pretty resilient today.
@@Joe-xr2xl That's literally exactly what i suggested.
@@erat91 didn't watched the whole video, but basically peltiers heat more if you turn them on/off all the time than would if you just regulated and constantly supplied voltage to them, that is why buck/boost peltier controllers are more efficient than turning them on/off all the time with relay or mosfet ( i'm working on peltier controller for pc but its on hold as i;'ve got other r&d stuff which is more urgent than my private pet-project, so hopefully i'll continue my work to it in month and a half or two )
Linus: "TEC cooling is and was a bad idea."
Intel: "Hold my Beer..."
congrats Alex, you really stepped up your game in the last year. The flow simulation really blew my mind! Keep up this quality of content!
16:07 I never laughed harder at an LTT vid 😂🤣
Next Video: Building Our Very Own 64 Core CPU!
Actualy, it can be done with riskv
They have made a video about it
Alex Quiniou :O
@@alex.quiniou RISC-V*
Well this aged well