Red Dot Optics on Combat Pistols | Tactical Rifleman
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Pistol Optics have been around for a while. Honestly, I believe within 5 years ALL Combat Pistols will have optics on them. Just like a rifle, there are lots of advantages to running a optic on a pistol. However, there are also a few disadvantages. First, and most important, is that many shooters can't "Find the Dot" when they present the pistol in front of their eye. Now, once you practice your presentation, either dryfiring or live, you learn to present the pistol directly in front of your eye, and it will always be there for you... Except for when it isn't. What do I mean by that? I appreciate you asking. In this video we are going to cover all the advantages and disadvantages of running a optic on your pistol. We are going to talk about many of the common types currently available. I prefer an enclosed emitter. Why? Again, I'm glad you asked, but I'm gonna make you watch the video for that one.
Back to "Finding the Dot:" Practicing perfect pistol presentation WILL properly present the optic aligned with your eye. However, everyone builds this "muscle memory" while standing square on a flat range. That's not real life. You might have to present the pistol from crouching around the side of a car, from around a police shield, or maybe from off your back laying on the ground. You don't have muscle memory for "finding your dot" from these positions. That where the ACSS Vulcan comes in. Watch the video, and you'll see why this "Patent Pending" Reticle is gonna be a Game Changer. It is supposed to become available for purchase in December 2020, and I want all of you to be right at the front of the line.
Right now it is only available in an optic made by Holosun exclusively for Primary Arms. However, I am hoping that other companies, like Aimpoint & Trijicon, will soon be offering it in their pistol optics.
So if you want to grab one now, use this link to get to our "Companies we Love Tab", and scroll down to the link for Primary Arms. That affiliate link may save you some money or get you a free mount, depending on what product you buy.
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I went to a pistol red dot recently. Found I now focus on the target with both eyes, then I bring the red dot into the field of view, place over target and press. As an older guy found I was having difficulty focusing on the front sight and still seeing the target as distance increased. Great video!
The ACSS Vulcan reticle will change pistol sights forever, Demitry is a genius!!
Thats thinking in 3D
Dimitri
Thank you brother! 🇺🇸 -Dimitri
Just need to get it in the 509 and the acro
That reticle is 100% the way of the future.
Was literally talking about the focal plane being the best advantage to some patrolmen about an hour before you posted this. As always, great video.
Boom!
Today i learned something new even if I'm not new to the world of guns,I'm talking about the pros of an enclosed optic and the benefits of ACSS ,thank you! We are all learning something everyday
The very second holosun puts the vulcan reticle in a closed emitter, i'm in for every single one of my primary pistols. Hopefully sooner than later. My guns STAY dirty, wet, muddy, etc. and i'll NEVER have another open emitter sight on anything. Karl, you have some market push. Tell Dimitri to get his shit together and make it happen 😁
I'll pass it on.
Fast Forward a year later and Holosun did it. The Closed Emmitter Acss Volcan 509. I bought 3 of them within 3 months and sold off a Leupold Delta Point Pro.
Just got an SRO and have it mounted on my new Staccato C2 DUO Tactical! Can't wait to get it sighted in and start shooting!
Best way to use my "stimulus check." LOL
I just got the Holoson 507c with the Vulcan recital, mounted only brand new Glock 17 Gen 5 and it improved my accuracy out to 25 meters. I’m now trying to modify my other pistols to allow it to fit. It’s outstanding!
I had the same experience; got a 19 MOS & put a 507c on it. Immediate game changer. Recently upgraded my edc from a 43 to a 43x MOS with a 507k. Welcome to the future fellas!
ACSS family of reticles are the way to go for combat, duty or EDC 🤘! Mr Dimitri did the best, fast to aquire and shoot at any distance red dot and scope reticles since their invetion.
Can't wait for Vulcan to get in current and future enclosed PRDSs and so I do for the ACSS CQB for MRDSs
Thank you! -Dimitri
@@PrimaryArmsOptics How about a Holosun 509T with ACSS in Green? Now that would be the ultimate combo!
Just got my first red dot on a pistol and it’s a true game changer !!!!! Extended my range 40 yards with my carry gun
Sorry to hear about Jerry J’s injury... get well brother
My motivation to use a pistol optic was that I can't see my rear sight without glasses. Now I I'm back on target with a pistol optic !
"Not saying it will make you more accurate in an IPSC competition"
It will totally make you more accurate in an IPSC competition.
Yup - by a big percentage typically if the shooter does their job
I'm really glad I started earlier with the dot
I more or less grew up with electronic optics and the notion of focusing on the front sight and not what you're shooting at seemed counterintuitive and almost downright unsafe to me. They say "be sure of your target and what's behind it", not soo easy to do when it's just a blurry blob! I am exaggerating a bit but being able to focus on the target is a game changer
10,000 reps is easy when it's spread over months.
6 Months is ~ 26 weeks.
385 reps/week = 55 reps/day
lol will have to do another 10k on each hand, off your back, under cars and other barriers
I'll stick to wanking/jerking off lol I'm from the UK so thats the only weapon I can handle, it is a weapon of mass destruction! America is the greatest country in the world I wish I lived there apart from california even Jocko couldn't sell it to me!!! God bless America!!!
OUTSTANDING video! Definitely lot's of valuable knowledge! Thanks again Karl, miss those livestreams!🤜🤛🇺🇸🇺🇸
Glad you enjoyed it
I took a Red Dot class at Sit Sauer Academy. It was a huge help in building confidence shooting with a Red Dot.
That is the absolute best I’ve heard anyone describe what you see when shooting! Great content brotha 🤙🏽 I run a Holosun 507k on my Glock43X mos and love it!!
I only have two major issues about getting red dots on my pistols
1. 14 Glocks on hand so I would need a red dot for everyone of them
2. None of them have the MOS cuts.
Sucks to be me...,
I got my Global Ordnance ammo!
The video was pretty good too 😉
Holosun Vulcan will solve the problem for people that can not find the Red Dot on a pistol.
I’ve own 3 RMRs and currently own 2 SROs. Most of them are mounted on my STIs but the SROs are mounted on my Nighthawk and the other on my CZ Shadow 2
Totally agree - Red dot tech will only improve - the majority of new pistols ongoing will come OotB either already equipped with or designed for red dots
Walther, for example ,isn’t even offering an iron sight only version of their new PDP
Optics divisions in competition pistol shooting are the fastest growing component in the sport
And unless you have some visual impairment that disallows the use of current RD tech , they absolutely make you a better shooter
Also the index required makes you a better iron sight shooter as well
If you can’t find the dot on standard presentation easily , then most likely your index was poor to begin with IMO
Hard to beat a red dot when transitioning from target to target as well as precision. All of my times and scores on any drill I run are positively affected with the dot. Trijicon please pick up the Vulcan reticle. Thanks for the awesome video Karl.
ACSS Vulcan by Holosun is the best dot I own and I own them all, if you can’t find the dot it’s the best.
"best" depends on priorities. For those who are new to dots, it's great. If you are at the stage where you just present it and the dot is there, there are better options. It can also become a crutch if you depend on it.
@@CharlieMikeNS I designed it for combat pistol not flat range work, all those new guys surely benefit from it so do experts in high stress situations and alternate firing positions, the 2moa vs Vulcan reticle was put to rest on day one of testing.
-Dimitri
@@PrimaryArmsOptics Cool. SageDynamics knows a thing or two about combat shooting.
@@PrimaryArmsOptics which one of your sights would be best for the Glock 48 MOS?
@@PrimaryArmsOptics I'd get an acss vulcan reticle in a heartbeat if it was available for the Holosun 509t or Aimpoint ACRO P1.
Anyone who has a non-mos Glock, Brownells makes nice Optics ready slides that accept either the RMR or Holosun. Cost the same or less than having the slide milled and your pistol doesnt have to be out of commission for 3 months waiting for the shop to mill it
Well that answers all my questions and I am sold..
If a person gets the dot exactly where the round hits, you get faster by not so much focus on sight alignment but rather the dot . By default with practice you should be twice as fast .
THank you SGM. For reminding us to train train train.
Wish I would have seen this video first. I opted out of the ACSS Vulcan reticle to save some dough because I figured I’d train enough with the circle dot to pick it up fast. I didn’t think about obstacles and barrier shooting though which won’t set you up for your muscle memory aim like a flat range
Good point on the motion sensing sights. That's exactly why my "house carbine" has a shake awake dot, and my "walking around" guns don't.
I find that when using a red or green dot on the pistol make it a point to have the dot co-witness with suppressor iron sights. They are in the same position and the muscle memory is much easier to adapt.
I am totally an "absolute co-witness ALL THE THINGS" guy. I only want to have *one* eye position and presentation.
The only reason I don't run red dots on any of my pistols is because my astigmatism is bad enough that any kind of red dot won't help me- it actually hinders me a bit. Even then, there are tons of options nowadays with modern optics such as a LPVO. There are also ways to help your astigmatism in a lot of cases nowadays. Etched reticles for example, Primary Arms has some great prismatics. Also green dots, with the brightness turned down, cowitnessed with iron sights help people with minor astigmatism. (Mine's bad enough that it doesn't, but what works best for me might not be what works best for you.) Though, I'd honestly recommend green dots anyway since the human eye picks up green easier than any other color.
It's to the point when I'm teaching classes, all of my students going into the line of duty like security or police work, I encourage them to spend the extra money and get a pistol that's MOS capable. Karl is absolutely correct in that regard that it's the future (although I disagree that the thing that will hinder optics on guns. It isn't the end user being given bad information or outdated thinking. Optics on guns are going to be hindered by idiot politicians banning """assault weapons""" who don't understand why it's so popular)
18:47 “you look like a sugar cookie by the time that helicopter flys off” 😁 🌪🚁
SO TRUE!
Thanks Karl, you always give us great information. Thanks brotha.
My pleasure!!
We must all understand that everything is an evolution and keeps improving itself. Pistol sights are not any different. Red dot pistol sights is the next best thing.
It's slower at first because most shooters have a sloppy presentation. With iron sights you can guide them into alignment, with a red dot, it's either there or it's not.
Maybe that's why I didn't have an issue finding the dot on pistols - with my carry pistols, I train so that I can have the sights 90% lined up and on target even before I look at the sights. As in, literally do the "look at a small target, close eyes, draw, and only then open eyes".
It's the big reason why I don't personally care for a Glock, deapite them being bombproof tools - my muscles and nervous system are used to a presentation more like a 1911. So I use Sigs instead of Glocks - they fit better with what I already have programmed into my brain over years.
I am trying like hell to get used to a dot. I like it but im off to a slow start I guess.
I just switched last week but for my carry gun I think I'll b running red dots till the next great improvement in tech happens in 10 years or so lol
Karl, good channel, good to see an old 1/1 Guy, Mark L. from ODA 125!
Mark, great to hear from you... I was always in 5th Group; mostly A-1-5. Thanks for watching, and thank you for your service. Strength & Honor, TR
As always, Karl has the best instruction on the internet. Thanks, Tactical Rifleman, for another great video.
Thanks for the heads up on enclose emitters.
You bet!
Just learned about your channel and after a couple videos I'm very impressed. Thanks for sharing your honest and unbiased opinions, and for avoiding lecturing about politics (I don't need any pandering or fear mongering.) Unfortunately, the number of truly unbiased Guntube channels is getting smaller by the day, and I'm ashamed to be part of a group that includes MAC, Mrgunsnshill, etc. I just subscribed to your channel and hope to enjoy and learn from your videos for a long time. Thanks!
I appreciate that!
I have a Holosun HE509T on my do-it-all AR. It's sitting on an Arisaka offset red dot mount, in conjunction with a primary arms 1-6 raptor. Slick setup, and I love the 509. It's a great optic.
Ive got a similar setup, but with a Vortex Viper.
Best video yet, Karl! Stubborn man here finally about to make the change over to pistol optics.
Personally I am not a fan yet. My pistol is my backup, or my primary when I carry concealed. For the purposes I use it for I don't need it. I've been training with a Glock 19 with an MRS for a while now and I start to get the hang of it, my split times are going down. But ammo is too expensive now to get some real reps in. Dry fire until I get bored...
I love the ACSS Vulcan.
Imri, great job dropping your mags quickly where you reload!
I was a slow adopter of dots on pistols but I’m coming around. It’s a training issue that I’ve had to work though. I’m not sold on them for small carry pistols but I may change my mind.
Trying red dot again. Hope this time will work for me. 320 new to me as well. Thanks for the information.
Fingers crossed!
Just got the holosun 507c on my shadow 2. Time to get those reps.
The other day I put some light kit on and put my carry G19 w/rmr in my safariland and went out in the rain to shoot steel 25-100. Well, needless to say I got a drop in my emitter. My old iron sight 34 is normally in that holster I was mostly focused on rifle, so I just popped my carry gun in the holster instead to get out the door. Doing drill's, having fun cover to cover and then I tried my first transition to pistol.......it was jarring to say the least. All I saw was a mess of spiderweb laser dot splatter on the glass. I was knelt behind a barrel and I did not stop---I was able to place the R.M.R's top corners on each side of my half size targets at 15yds and hit decent, but I was literally shooting through a blind window. I am grateful it happened because knowing is one thing but learning first hand sticks with you more. If it's even cloudy out, I'm carrying irons only......(kidding) but it's a lesson learned for sure. Thanks for all your work Carl. Good stuff as always.
Next opportunity, but an enclosed emitter, like a ACRO or 509. I run a enclosed 509 with Vulcan reticle. Thanks for watching, TR
I just recently bought the holosun 507c x2 but mine is just the one with the circle + dot and plain circle and just 2 MOA dot. Which I’ve trained myself to present the dot with almost every draw depends on fatigue or if I’m doing a lousy presentation at that time. But all in all thanks for the video you opened up so many interests that I am gonna try. Thank you and keep doing what ya do. God bless.
red dot with irons for back up best of both
Awesome lesson in threat focus & focal plane and reasons a red dot might help some folks. Thanks!!
Very good video. I’ve seen and watch many police videos and many Law enforcement officers are mounting Optics, wether co-witness or not. Optics give you the ability to direct the shooter’s attention on the target with both eyes OPEN and down range where the action is. It gives you the quick ability to follow or track the tactical situation without focusing on a Two-Point alignment of what is in your hand and not down range. Finding the DOT is no more difficult than finding your front post, it’s all practice on gaining that mussel-memory as one did with the iron sight. As I run a Glock, my trigger finger along the frame acts as my pointer, it works. My transition to a lower hold for the Optics Window and Dot was quick and easy. As long as one has through practice, even in a dark situation with Tritium night sights, placing that front post on a target via the rear sight he’ll be able to quickly adjust to that very slight height difference in gaining that DOT on his presentation. PRACTICE! The only true draw back to go Optic is again a NEW HOLSTER!!!
THanks for watching, TR
My 2 cents. Remove the front sight for the time you are learning the dot. Mine seemed to distract me. I will install it after I get accustomed to it. Also turn the dot up when you are practicing as it helps find it quicker.
Just purchased a sig with red dot and since I don't have experience with thousands of rounds with a pistol. I'm looking forward to training with a red dot. Looks like there is lots of dry fire training could be done with red dot sights to get more efficient without spending so much on ammo with prices being what they are. Thanks for all the info.
Great breakdown of shooting with red dots. You have definitely motivated me to make that my next upgrade.
I love my 507K...I started with the 32moa circle with the 2moa dot...thought it was great. Then I went to the 2moa dot alone thinking I'd be more accurate. Then I found I shoot best with just the circle...because mentally I prefer to SEE my point of impact, and I can bracket that point of intended impact exceptionally well with the circle.
Even with iron sights...I hate combat sight pictures...6 o'clock or center is better for me because I can SEE it.
I like the circle as POI is not covered.
With proper training the learning curve can be overcome and the benefits can be achieved. Speaking as a previous naysayer of rds on pistols until i got enough training reps in. Your mileage may vary....
You have convinced this 1911 dinosaur man. Now I have to go get my M&Ps machined; but my 1911 stays the same.
I recently acquired a red dot for my glock 19. A swampfox justice with RMR footprint. That red dot is Amazing and was under $250. Shake awake 3.5moa dot. If anyone here is thinking of trying red dot but doesn't want to drop $$$$ give it a try. U won't be disappointed
For me finding the dot hasn't been an issue. I just present the gun like I'm going for my irons and I get the dot every time.
I went to a red dot and i wouldn't buy another pistol unless it was cut for a red dot! It is night and day difference and so much better!
That you never have to take your focus off your intended target is the key here and, I think, might force police departments to adopt this technology sooner rather than later.
With iron sights, you really have no choice but to unload on your target until he's motionless (dead); you can't take a shot, focus on the bad guy, then focus on the iron sight within an instant. With red dots you can assess in real time if the bad guy is still a threat.
I can definitely see a court ruling or DOJ rule mandating that police departments equip their employees with red dots.
Excellent explanation. It reminds me of coaching 8yr Pop Warner Football. Imagine trying to teach boys it's actually ok to hit. After everyone in their lives has told them not to hit since the day they were born. The effort is greater with Glocks in that the wrist has to canted a little further down. G45/507C x2, just marked my calendar, couldn't get the wife to agree with the 509. I forgot it's easier to ask for forgiveness. I've been retired too long.
Awesome video, I never considered open vs closed emitter before, something to really think about.
Glad it was helpful!
Height over bore is the whole reason I dislike most optics that don't have a BDC. Eotechs have a bdc, the bottom of the circle is a hold for 7yrds. The left and right is for moving targets. For me pistols bdc doesn't really matter that much but the ability to have something similar is a huge advantage.
“...my range only goes out to one-thirty.”
You lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky...
Excellent video!!
Thank you very much!
Well done. Very thorough. Thanks
Its not that different for those wondering. Slight adjustment. I was as fast with a dot with maybe a couple hundred dry fire draws, and about 300 rounds.
Never going back to irons, unless I have to or issued equipment 😅
Good information
Red dot on my rifles are great. For my pistols I’m not a huge fan. So my son who loves them, but I’m not going to knock them. As I shoot with them occasionally until I it becomes natural to me.
Like pissing in the dark. I present but can never find the toilet.
Been contemplating this since getting old ain't as cool as advertised and old eyes are slow. But it will be a ton of money, not only because all pistol red dots are really expensive by them self but also either having to buy new gun or machine current (if possible) to fit them. And holsters. Granted this old back isn't enjoying carry appendix much either so replacing my trusty P229 Elite with something light might become eminent anyways...
I for one don't agree. Hard sights will always be around. For personal defense out to 12/15 yards, I am ditching the red dot's for hard sights. I for one am shunning complexity (batteries, zeroing, dependability, ect). I find that I can repeat my draw - to - fire accuracy and speed across all of my pistols with hard sights more consistently (yes, even after literally thousands of rounds with a "dot"). At my training distance (12/15 yards and in) I believe muscle memory is more important than sight picture anyway. I am older, and my eyesight is good but not stellar. I find that I can still focus on the target, and although they are fuzzy, the front and (to a lesser extent) the rear sights are in focus enough for me to consistently hit center mass. Personally, and again - for CC and personal defense - I for one am focusing more on moving while shooting, and firing from cover on multiple targets from 12/15 yards and hitting on center mass as being more important than my ability to hit a headshot at 100 feet (or for that matter the "perfect sight picture" or even a "dot on target"). I truly believe in a "live personal defense situation" I'm not going to be focusing at all on the "perfect sight picture" anyway. For me, I find during my after training self evaluation that I can hardly remember the sight picture at all... what I remember is the target, cover - and my draw... my hits are where they need to be (i.e. center mass). For shooting with my friends at the range - sure, the red dot is glitzy, and are fun and accurate... but for my serious carry and defense pistols - it's hard sights, together with good fundamentals and training all the way.
This.
my dad was like that. i dont like red dots on my hand guns. he runs a Springfield XD i run a Vp9 with a 507c on it. went to the range and i ran him till he called it a handicap. now he wanting a canik with the CT red dot lol
What about dealing with condensation on the lens when moving from cool, A/C environment to hot?
Cat crap lens cleaner works well for me
Condensation doesn't matter within 10 meters, as you should be shooting with both eyes open... You'll still be able to make out the Dot
I love this video! It truly helped me understand more about red dots being an iron sight shooter. Thank you for this. Do you see the open emitter being ok for non law enforcement and not military?
It is better than nothing, but the enclosed 509 with Vulcan reticle is hand down the best option available for combat guns
@@TacticalRifleman Thank u Sir
do a video on canted sights with optics vs magnifiers vs redots on top of optics,
I love my 45 deg red dot off set on my x95
Will do
I am shooting in VR (playing Pavlov VR mostly) and gosh... The Vulcan type reticle should be placed there instead a standard one. BTW it's amazing how much of real life shooting knowledge is translatable to the virtual reality.
Great video/info!
Glad it was helpful!
Just got a p320 x compact with romeo 1 pro added on, damn is it a change from tritium irons. A good change at that.
Wait till you try the Vulcan reticle
Karl another great video ! Keep up the great work!
Thanks again!
If you are over 50, like i am, and you have to deal with Presbyopie, red dots on a pistol are absolutly great und usefull.
The lighting in the video is very nice
Great video , thanks for the information.
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome video. Thanks guys.
Thanks for watching!
You need to start posting knife and stick combat since guns are about to be taken
Only if you give them up
Say you had 100,000 rounds and 20 ar15s. they cut manufacturing of guns and ammo tomorrow. Yes you can still buy on black market if you can find and willing to risk but shooting as a sport and having fun is dead.you would have to conservatively make that ammo and guns last you and your kids if they haven't wiped us out. And most people don't have 100,000 rds and 20 ars.
Unfortunately, with NRA AM cancelled, it is the only place where I can get to see a lot of products in one place. I would love to see these RDS such as dot size and size of the units in person to get a better idea what I would choose.
Great info thanks brother
Love from INDIA 🇮🇳👍
Imagine back in the day liking “Gunsmoke” on TV and having to get a “Gunsmoke” hat or T-shirt and your wife had a “I love Lucy” hat😀
kid has a Captain Kangaroo hat
Looks amazing.
Red dots are great......unless you have an astigmatism. It's not always antiquated thinking that prevents people from running red dots.
I had my astigmatism corrected surgically in one eye. I am save money for the second surgery. The way I see it, at the moment of truth, I may not have had time to put on corrective shooting glasses. So I removed the need for them from the equation. Combat is 30 days of boredom for 30 seconds of excitement, and you never know when the 30 seconds is gonna happen. Thanks for watching, TR.
The best!
Question are the ammo manufacturing co. raising there prices to our friendly gun shop’s or is our not so friendly gun sales taking advantage of the panic buying. Honest answer.
Let’s see a video
Manufacturers released a document months ago they're rising prices 5-13% on their end.. so it's going to obviously rise prices at the stores end as well. It's gonna suck for the upcoming years.
@@randomtvninja $1.00+ per round for .223 is price gouging 💥
@@rondavis415 Ok... Don't ask questions if you're actually not going to take the answer.
Manufacturers just raised their prices to dealers.. dealers will raise their prices to us.. yes there is some price gouging going on.. but until things settle the increase on price is coming from the manufacturers just as much as it is from the stores. Don't believe me do your own research.
Great video!!
Glad you enjoyed it
As always Big D, you Sir, have outclassed yourself once again!!!!
ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING!!!! Great Information!!!
The ONLY THING left out was the argument of RED DOT VERSUS GREEN DOT!!!!! Some argue the human eye tends to pick up a Green
Dot quicker than a Red Dot!!!!
I would really like to get your take on this subject!!!! How do you feel about Green vs. Red reticles???
I don’t really see I difference in Green vs Red. However, it take more energy to make the Green as bright as the Red... so, running green also equates to less battery life
This was explained very well and makes total sense. Which red dot do you recommend most for duty use?
Holosun 507 or 509, as they are currently the only ones available with the ACSS Vulcan reticle