Some mistakes in this diagrams: 1. Mode 3, series: the default threshold is not always 20%. It is configurable from a lower bound to 70% on most vehicles. The lowerbound is 25% (DM 4.0, normal EV mode), 15% (DM 4.0, forced EV mode) or 20% (DM 5.0). 2. Mode 3, series: when in need of high power output, the engine doesn't increase its output immediately. Instead, all power from the generator motor, plus some power from the battery, is directed to the drive motor for a burst of power. 3. Mode 4, parallel: the generator motor is still connected to the engine. Excessive power is directed into the battery. Therefore, even at high speed and in parallel mode, the battery can still slowly recharge. 4. For simplification, you omitted all regenerative braking modes. (EV+RB, series+RB, parallel+RB)
@@deepseer Thanks for the input! I know it's not perfect, there will be scenarios where the threshold is off or added scenarios that I didn't cover. Was trying to keep it as simplified as possible. But thank you for clarification!
@@zechssiguro7476 no it won't as far as I am aware. What I have been told is the battery can be run down as far as 10% in EV mode, but no further. It will force series mode as that point.
@@BeYonD-EV thank you for the feedback, I I understand the range anxiety now. I wonder if the Ford Ranger PHEV will be able to gas only? but I know the SHARK6 will be more affordable, I'd consider sacrificing some trunk space, for an in tray additional battery bank "Range Extender", for some trusted source, that hopefully won't swell with the heat in my temperature Caribbean region, nor your Aussie outback. ( tonneau cover it, & plug it into one of those many port on the BYD & or Ford)
@@zechssiguro7476 It can never run fully out of charge unless there is malfunction. It will automatically recharges the battery in series-recharge mode (mode 3) and parallel-recharging mode (variation of mode 4 as I mentioned above). However, if the battery or the motor is not functional, the vehicle can not run.
Thanks for that info. The big question 4x4 drivers I know keep asking is can a rear diff locker be installed? The other question that keeps coming up is, does the turbo temp show anywhere on the screens and is there a turbo cool down process?
I don't believe at this stage you can fit a diff lock. It's not a standard diff out the back, it's an electric motor connected to a reduction gearbox which also contains the diff. You'd likely have to pull the whole motor out if you wanted to play around with it. And that involves playing around with high voltage wires which will also make things quite tricky.
Very detailed and comprehensive explanation. Just have one question though inst it simpler and more efficient to have series hybrid system where engine may only work as a generator to charge the battery if it falls below 25% while power may only be supplied to wheels by the 2 electric motors?
No it doesn't otherwise there will be a lawsuit against patent infringement on BYD by Mitsubishi. Also it's already mentioned in the video BYD's DM system is currently the only one in the market to have all the working modes in a PHEV.
PHEV was developed and innovated by BYD (full name is series-parallel dual-mode electric platform hybrid (DM PHEV) which can be externally charged and discharged). In 2007, it applied for the core patent in China. In 2008, the first car went on the market (F3DM, the first generation BYD DM PHEV), and now it has developed to the fifth generation technology.
@@Deandzzzzzz Well, I had a 2017 Outlander PHEV and although the mechanical layout differs, the functions are the same. I could drive in EV only mode (although ONLY is a stretch as the engine would kick in under extreme load, high speed or if the battery was low). I could select 'Save' mode which did not engage electric drive in order to use it at a later time or I could employ Charge Mode. Charge mode would drive the wheels with both electric motor and ICE with additional power to the battery. So, a true series/hybrid system. As a generator it was expensive which is where this differs from the BYD. The Mitsubishi was a 2ltr ICE (later upgraded to 2.4ltrs) with two electric motors where a lot of the drive was still expected to be provided by the engine. It was a reasonably powerful setup but as I said, not efficient. The BYD appears to favour an efficient charging series system with a highway ICE drive.
@@evtorque I strongly recommend you book a test drive of BYD Sealion 6. I have driven my SL6 for the past 3 months and I am very happy with the EV-only range, acceleration (regardless of SOC high or low) and fuel efficiency at battery-deficit state (HEV mode kicks in at < 25% SOC by default). Sounds like BYD’s DM-i systems outperforms Mitsubishi PHEV system as per your comment.
@@Deandzzzzzz Well ..I would ...but ... I already have the BYD Atto 3. Love the car except for the slow AC charging at 7kw. As I'm planning for longer trips, I will need to rely on DC fast charging. That's where the BYD DM-i would be useful. I will wait a little longer to see what longer range full BEV's arrive and what their AC charging looks like. In Western Australia, faster AC charging as a back-up to DC fast charging is simply a case of having a PLAN-B until more reliable fast DC chargers are available regionally. With 22kw AC charging (on 3-phase) I would be a very happy camper. 3-phase 32 amp (22kw) outlets are available everywhere even if installed chargers are not so all that is needed is a 3-phase granny charger with adaptors for 20 & 32 amp supplies (I already have this). Otherwise, yes I'd give the SL6 a go. Cheers.
Probably a silly question , but if you were in a camping type situation could the motor recharge the stationary shark over time , obviously you’d hope not to get to that point …. But !?
@@geneharrison6625 yes apparently it can. Tim from the owners review video mentioned that you can let the car sit idle with the engine running and it will add charge to the battery.
i dont think its the most efficient, its outright redundant. electric power from engine runs the motors, excess power can be diverted to charge the battery on the move in combination with regenerative braking
@@freetheworld247 I think the use case for this is following a long trip to your destination you could be down to 20%. Letting it sit idle for a while can get it back up to 40-50%. Then turn engine off and use that to power your site for the night and take off in the morning.
I’m interesting in knowing more about DMI-5, specifically how it differs from DMI-4, but info on DMI-5 is hard to find. Does anyone have the lowdown on how DMI 5 is better than DMI 4?
@@richardbuckingham4329 basic lowdown... Dmi 5.0 will introduce a planetary gearbox, as opposed to the single gear used on 4.0. On the 5.0 system, both the P1 and P2 electric motors can both be used to drive the front wheels at the same time. 4.0 only the P2 motor is used as the P1 motor is only used for power generation. Dmi 5.0 can achieve up to 2100km in combined range. Even if that is heavily overstated, getting just 50% of that claim is still pretty good.
@@wkchew682 None as far as I am aware. Its possible, but it's programmed out so it is never used. Because the EHS only has 1 gear ratio, the window for fuel only to be useful would be very small. So it will use series mode instead.
Pl also shed light on fuel economy of this PHEV in hybrid mode (once battery is down to 25%) and engine turns on intermittently to charge the battery and drive the wheels. I suspect that most of these PHEVs are not very efficient in hybrid mode.
Depnds how you are driving, but its around 7-10L/100km. Not that efficient, but keep in you need to drive 80km in full EV mode to get to that 25% point. So if you did 80km EV and 80KM hybrid, you are still averaging 3.5-5L/100km
@ that is true. Though slight correction required here. The cost of electricity to charge an EV needs to be factored in too. Apparently i found the claims by most PHEV manufacturers a bit misleading as they are not factoring in the cost of electricity needed to charge PHEVs + the mileage that car gives per kwh is also important. I feel that true running cost can only be calculated when we have clarity on both.
@mazbpl because it's so low it's not worth taking into account. I pay 8c/kwh to charge my BYD Seal at home. So to charge a shark from 25%-100% would cost $1.76. $1.76 for 80km travel. Even if you had a super efficient car with 5L/100, it would still cost you $8 in fuel to travel that 80km with petrol.
@@BeYonD-EV i agree. Charging cost is less in countries with low electricity cost. However in assessing the performance of EVs and PHEVs one important aspect is to check kms per kwh to confirm how efficient that car is. In fact it should always be mentioned in specifications of any EV/PHEV.
@ have you managed to calculate the efficiency in pure EV mode (how many km per kwh)? I feel when comparing EVs it will soon come down to this very basic question to calculate efficiency (much like to we check fuel average in km per litre).
It's strange to me not to just go into the ice power train mode when cruising on a steady run as it looses efficiency twice as it stands. Once through ice being less than 100% efficient and then the electric motors being less than 100% efficient as well. It would be more economical to just run on the petrol engine with electric only helping out on hills, maybe.
@@nothingsurprisesmeanymore because of it's single gear ratio, that optimal power band to use just the ICE would be very narrow. Powering it through the P1 generator means the ICE will always run within it's optimal power band and load, but power to the wheels can change as required.
@@deepseerspot on! The distinctive difference is Toyota's hybrid system still has a mechanical gearbox because it predominantly runs on engine and electric motor only is engaged at startup/low speed. However BYD's DM-i system works the other way around focusing on electric motors ALL THE TIME. Engine is only used to either recharge the battery (in series mode) or to provide additional burst of power when overtaking or high-speed cruising (in parallel mode). Hence there is no need for a gearbox AT ALL. The conclusion is mechanically Toyota's hybrid system is definitely more complex but its working logic is simple. Low speed -> electric motor; mid to high speed -> petrol engine However BYD's DM system is undoubtedly simpler mechanically but its working logic is more complicated. Different mode under different circumstances. Yet we humans don't need to worry about it as it's all dictated by its EHS computer.
Warning! BYD doesn’t make good quality petrol engines used in hybrids. Stay far away from Chinese hybrids. BYD has had major quality issues with their hybrids.
An excellent explanation. That diagram was great! Don’t sell yourself short mate.
@@pantastic85 Just keeping it light hearted 😁
Thanks!
Well explanation, what I was searching exactly ,
Best hybrid system so far
Excellent demonstration.
That clears a few things up.
That was perfect! Explained exactly what's going on and made it easily understandable.
Great explanation and use of diagrams man. Now I get it. 🙌
That was awesome mate
@@craftbeercurrie2943 thanks mate!
Some mistakes in this diagrams:
1. Mode 3, series: the default threshold is not always 20%. It is configurable from a lower bound to 70% on most vehicles. The lowerbound is 25% (DM 4.0, normal EV mode), 15% (DM 4.0, forced EV mode) or 20% (DM 5.0).
2. Mode 3, series: when in need of high power output, the engine doesn't increase its output immediately. Instead, all power from the generator motor, plus some power from the battery, is directed to the drive motor for a burst of power.
3. Mode 4, parallel: the generator motor is still connected to the engine. Excessive power is directed into the battery. Therefore, even at high speed and in parallel mode, the battery can still slowly recharge.
4. For simplification, you omitted all regenerative braking modes. (EV+RB, series+RB, parallel+RB)
@@deepseer Thanks for the input! I know it's not perfect, there will be scenarios where the threshold is off or added scenarios that I didn't cover. Was trying to keep it as simplified as possible.
But thank you for clarification!
@@BeYonD-EVI have a simple question, say the Shark 6/Shark runs fully out of charge, can it run on the petrol gas only?
@@zechssiguro7476 no it won't as far as I am aware. What I have been told is the battery can be run down as far as 10% in EV mode, but no further. It will force series mode as that point.
@@BeYonD-EV thank you for the feedback, I I understand the range anxiety now. I wonder if the Ford Ranger PHEV will be able to gas only? but I know the SHARK6 will be more affordable, I'd consider sacrificing some trunk space, for an in tray additional battery bank "Range Extender", for some trusted source, that hopefully won't swell with the heat in my temperature Caribbean region, nor your Aussie outback. ( tonneau cover it, & plug it into one of those many port on the BYD & or Ford)
@@zechssiguro7476 It can never run fully out of charge unless there is malfunction.
It will automatically recharges the battery in series-recharge mode (mode 3) and parallel-recharging mode (variation of mode 4 as I mentioned above).
However, if the battery or the motor is not functional, the vehicle can not run.
Good job David
Broooo thanks for this. I was still struggling to understand how it worked.
Gran explicación amigo , al parecer el sistema es muy similar al del Chevy Volt de rango extendido, saludos desde La Paz, Baja Sur , México
Thanks for that info. The big question 4x4 drivers I know keep asking is can a rear diff locker be installed?
The other question that keeps coming up is, does the turbo temp show anywhere on the screens and is there a turbo cool down process?
I don't believe at this stage you can fit a diff lock. It's not a standard diff out the back, it's an electric motor connected to a reduction gearbox which also contains the diff. You'd likely have to pull the whole motor out if you wanted to play around with it. And that involves playing around with high voltage wires which will also make things quite tricky.
Genial solution. I hope thet the option to drive only on ICE should be available by a push-botton activation option
Very detailed and comprehensive explanation. Just have one question though inst it simpler and more efficient to have series hybrid system where engine may only work as a generator to charge the battery if it falls below 25% while power may only be supplied to wheels by the 2 electric motors?
I have the same question. But maybe the electric motors are not powerful enough on their own.
For SEALION 6 DM-i , If we set SOC (STATE OF CHARGE) at 70% while driving, how many % of battery could be keep for later use ?
It's interesting on BYDs servicing schedule it has a transfer case oil replacement... What bit is a transfer case in your diagram?
The clutch wear and tear will be a problem later on.
Hi I have all those modes available in the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2018
No it doesn't otherwise there will be a lawsuit against patent infringement on BYD by Mitsubishi. Also it's already mentioned in the video BYD's DM system is currently the only one in the market to have all the working modes in a PHEV.
PHEV was developed and innovated by BYD (full name is series-parallel dual-mode electric platform hybrid (DM PHEV) which can be externally charged and discharged). In 2007, it applied for the core patent in China. In 2008, the first car went on the market (F3DM, the first generation BYD DM PHEV), and now it has developed to the fifth generation technology.
@@Deandzzzzzz Well, I had a 2017 Outlander PHEV and although the mechanical layout differs, the functions are the same. I could drive in EV only mode (although ONLY is a stretch as the engine would kick in under extreme load, high speed or if the battery was low). I could select 'Save' mode which did not engage electric drive in order to use it at a later time or I could employ Charge Mode. Charge mode would drive the wheels with both electric motor and ICE with additional power to the battery. So, a true series/hybrid system. As a generator it was expensive which is where this differs from the BYD. The Mitsubishi was a 2ltr ICE (later upgraded to 2.4ltrs) with two electric motors where a lot of the drive was still expected to be provided by the engine. It was a reasonably powerful setup but as I said, not efficient. The BYD appears to favour an efficient charging series system with a highway ICE drive.
@@evtorque I strongly recommend you book a test drive of BYD Sealion 6. I have driven my SL6 for the past 3 months and I am very happy with the EV-only range, acceleration (regardless of SOC high or low) and fuel efficiency at battery-deficit state (HEV mode kicks in at < 25% SOC by default). Sounds like BYD’s DM-i systems outperforms Mitsubishi PHEV system as per your comment.
@@Deandzzzzzz Well ..I would ...but ... I already have the BYD Atto 3. Love the car except for the slow AC charging at 7kw. As I'm planning for longer trips, I will need to rely on DC fast charging. That's where the BYD DM-i would be useful. I will wait a little longer to see what longer range full BEV's arrive and what their AC charging looks like. In Western Australia, faster AC charging as a back-up to DC fast charging is simply a case of having a PLAN-B until more reliable fast DC chargers are available regionally. With 22kw AC charging (on 3-phase) I would be a very happy camper. 3-phase 32 amp (22kw) outlets are available everywhere even if installed chargers are not so all that is needed is a 3-phase granny charger with adaptors for 20 & 32 amp supplies (I already have this). Otherwise, yes I'd give the SL6 a go. Cheers.
For the BYD Sealion 6 DM-i, if we set the SOC (State of Charge) at 70% while driving, how much percentage of the battery could be kept for later use?
If you set to 70% save, the car will work to keep the battery SOC at 70% which you can use for later.
Probably a silly question , but if you were in a camping type situation could the motor recharge the stationary shark over time , obviously you’d hope not to get to that point …. But !?
@@geneharrison6625 yes apparently it can. Tim from the owners review video mentioned that you can let the car sit idle with the engine running and it will add charge to the battery.
The Outlander PHEV can do it at least so it's technically possible without engine overheating
i dont think its the most efficient, its outright redundant.
electric power from engine runs the motors, excess power can be diverted to charge the battery on the move in combination with regenerative braking
@@freetheworld247 I think the use case for this is following a long trip to your destination you could be down to 20%. Letting it sit idle for a while can get it back up to 40-50%. Then turn engine off and use that to power your site for the night and take off in the morning.
@@BeYonD-EV thanks mate , obviously this wouldn’t be efficient but nice to know it’s possible if your in a bit of a situation ☺️
I’m interesting in knowing more about DMI-5, specifically how it differs from DMI-4, but info on DMI-5 is hard to find.
Does anyone have the lowdown on how DMI 5 is better than DMI 4?
@@richardbuckingham4329 basic lowdown...
Dmi 5.0 will introduce a planetary gearbox, as opposed to the single gear used on 4.0.
On the 5.0 system, both the P1 and P2 electric motors can both be used to drive the front wheels at the same time. 4.0 only the P2 motor is used as the P1 motor is only used for power generation.
Dmi 5.0 can achieve up to 2100km in combined range. Even if that is heavily overstated, getting just 50% of that claim is still pretty good.
For BYD SEALION 6 DM-i , can we choose to drive on FUEL MODE ?
No you can't. Although it is mechanically possible, the car never drives from the ICE engine alone.
@BeYonD-EV
TQ so much for quick reply. ❤
Which BYD DM-i models allow driving in fuel mode alone ?
@@wkchew682 None as far as I am aware. Its possible, but it's programmed out so it is never used. Because the EHS only has 1 gear ratio, the window for fuel only to be useful would be very small. So it will use series mode instead.
Pl also shed light on fuel economy of this PHEV in hybrid mode (once battery is down to 25%) and engine turns on intermittently to charge the battery and drive the wheels. I suspect that most of these PHEVs are not very efficient in hybrid mode.
Depnds how you are driving, but its around 7-10L/100km. Not that efficient, but keep in you need to drive 80km in full EV mode to get to that 25% point.
So if you did 80km EV and 80KM hybrid, you are still averaging 3.5-5L/100km
@ that is true. Though slight correction required here. The cost of electricity to charge an EV needs to be factored in too. Apparently i found the claims by most PHEV manufacturers a bit misleading as they are not factoring in the cost of electricity needed to charge PHEVs + the mileage that car gives per kwh is also important. I feel that true running cost can only be calculated when we have clarity on both.
@mazbpl because it's so low it's not worth taking into account.
I pay 8c/kwh to charge my BYD Seal at home. So to charge a shark from 25%-100% would cost $1.76.
$1.76 for 80km travel.
Even if you had a super efficient car with 5L/100, it would still cost you $8 in fuel to travel that 80km with petrol.
@@BeYonD-EV i agree. Charging cost is less in countries with low electricity cost. However in assessing the performance of EVs and PHEVs one important aspect is to check kms per kwh to confirm how efficient that car is. In fact it should always be mentioned in specifications of any EV/PHEV.
@ have you managed to calculate the efficiency in pure EV mode (how many km per kwh)? I feel when comparing EVs it will soon come down to this very basic question to calculate efficiency (much like to we check fuel average in km per litre).
Where's the front electric motor in the diagram.
@@kennethprocak5176 the 2 small cogs top left top right. They are the P1 and P2/P3 electric motors
Thank you, so hard to get this in the US without dragging national security to all these cogs and wheels.
Stay tuned! I may, or may not, have another video coming up that might clear things up even further for our American friends 😉
It's strange to me not to just go into the ice power train mode when cruising on a steady run as it looses efficiency twice as it stands. Once through ice being less than 100% efficient and then the electric motors being less than 100% efficient as well. It would be more economical to just run on the petrol engine with electric only helping out on hills, maybe.
@@nothingsurprisesmeanymore because of it's single gear ratio, that optimal power band to use just the ICE would be very narrow. Powering it through the P1 generator means the ICE will always run within it's optimal power band and load, but power to the wheels can change as required.
Can you imagine the complexity of repairs down the line. Just get a full BEV when available.
It's not complex. If it was, it wouldn't be so popular.
The transmission is very simple. You can see a teardown video. From there you'll see it's much more simpler than even standard manual transmission.
Sound more complex than Toyota’s e-CVT, which uses the same 2 ev motors and the petrol motor.
Toyota uses a complex planetary gearbox. BYD's system is similar to Honda's.
@@deepseerspot on! The distinctive difference is Toyota's hybrid system still has a mechanical gearbox because it predominantly runs on engine and electric motor only is engaged at startup/low speed.
However BYD's DM-i system works the other way around focusing on electric motors ALL THE TIME. Engine is only used to either recharge the battery (in series mode) or to provide additional burst of power when overtaking or high-speed cruising (in parallel mode). Hence there is no need for a gearbox AT ALL.
The conclusion is mechanically Toyota's hybrid system is definitely more complex but its working logic is simple. Low speed -> electric motor; mid to high speed -> petrol engine
However BYD's DM system is undoubtedly simpler mechanically but its working logic is more complicated. Different mode under different circumstances. Yet we humans don't need to worry about it as it's all dictated by its EHS computer.
"more complex than Toyota’s e-CVT," you think the single-speed drive from the ICE more complex than a CVT ??? Oh dear !!!
Gran explicación amigo , al parecer el sistema es muy similar al del Chevy Volt de rango extendido, saludos desde La Paz, Baja Sur , México
Looks pretty much like Honda i MMD to me,,,
What is a B wody Shark?
why does japanese cars is not like this?
Toyota hybrid left d group 🤫
Warning! BYD doesn’t make good quality petrol engines used in hybrids. Stay far away from Chinese hybrids. BYD has had major quality issues with their hybrids.
your sources?
@ most of Chinese quality review sites as well as new markets where they export are starting to show terrible quality issues.
Thanks!
Thanks so much!🙏