@@johnpaulponayo5775 Cursed Helmet went from being in every Tank's kit (especially Junglers) to only being viable for High HP heroes; and the worst part, it is not a priority, therefore replaceable.
i think there is 2 major reason of why radiant < athena although they both get nefted - radiant lost it most important feature: magic dmg reduction -the rise of burst build and some adjustment on hero that supposed to be countered by radiant (zhask from dps to burst; natan who can jump on you and kill you within 2 sec; change and other mage with wishing lantern) if moonton want radiant armor viable again, i think bring back the magic dmg reduction is the right move since the reason it was removed is because of the past glowing wand that increase magic dmg taken (which also got removed) and reduce the stacking time of radiant from 0.6s to 0.3 or 0.5
I also preferred the Magic DMG Reduction effect, but ig it kinda limited the potential of certain heroes. For example, their latest release Zhuxin would really be quite handicapped by the old Radiant Armor.
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming Yea lol, if they bring back the magic def reduction tho, that would be great, as for the other heroes, I think buffing their magic scaling would help them
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming I think they should bring back the dmg reduction, and lower the other stats a little bit, or maybe increase the stacking passive more if they're not gonna bring back the dmg reduction
Yup. Athena is brain dead the choice for most heroes since most squishy hero wont survive more that 3s. Radiant is only for tanky heroes who can survive more than 3 second under constant damage.
Radiant is really for tanky heroes who can stay active as frontline most of the time. Athena's passive usually gets poked out while zoning but radiant can go long enough that you'll get full stacks once they finally to initiate a teamfight. Radiant is used against support heroes that baits out Athena. However, even if stragetically used, Radiant is still a weak item in today's META [the dmg reduction change is insane], it honestly needs a buff to be properly played.
@@RubyRubyRubyGamingif the other 4 heroes is physical, no tank should be buying athena against eudora anyway. you alr have high hp, which naturally counters burst. the eudora cant afford to waste ult on you.
@@quibble9003 well, thats assuming that as a tank you are facing eudora equally in a perfect scenario interms of level. but most of the time you are underlevel and underequip as a tank since you are earning less if the enemy eudora has been fed and your participation as a tank is vital. like tigreal which provides insane crowd control, eudora's ult is not wasted just because you are tank it doesnt mean you will never be the enemies' ult priority
I like the effect of radiant as tank, as in real world scenario, war lasted more than 3 secs in mid to late game And tanks rarely get bursted (unless losing very badly) I hope we get an item where it doesn't need to wait for more than 3secs,but for multiple damage hit for example: harley, julian, aamon
@@RubyRubyRubyGamingRuby, a lot of stuff I want to go through (though I haven’t watched the video yet). Radiant is not exactly useless, a lot of pros use it because teamfights in high ranks and professional scenes are pretty long and dragging. It’s more desirable if you went radiant on a adc since it gives you more dmg red than athena, and it’s also still usable with bruisers and tanks since radiant is already better than Athena (without effect) even with one stack. Since Athena doesn’t start the effect cooldown until you leave combat, then once you start teamfighting, then it basically becomes useless.
Radiant was never useless. They both fulfill their purpose as shown in the video. The question is more "which one is better for what situation" rather than "how useless is Radiant?"
One reason for Athena's effictivity in this video is the simulation of the heroes landing combos easily, which gave Athena's passive the advantage. Radiant Armor is still a good pick against DPS Mages for Exp and Tanks, who typically tend to last longer in a casual-ranked match.
Yup, as I mentioned, these are test situations and combos will likely differ in a real game. The data is merely data, so every viewer should consider their own game situation and use the data to make their own informed decision on what's best 😎
So for the damage window bit, all I got from it is that: Athena's Shield for Squishies for that immediate protection against Burst damage and the Radiant Armor for Tanks since they can last more in a battle and are mostly secondary targets after the squishy allies are slain.
That wasn't really the message. Squishies specifically should probably use Athena due to their small HP pool, but for Tanks, it should be adjusted according to what damage window you're facing
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming in the previous update before the radiant revamp it sure did 😂😂😂 you can tank chang'e without divine glaive face on before the update
Radiant armor is absolutely useless as of now. Even a yve drains a tank's hp like an mm. One ulti from chang'e will almost kill u even at lvl 4. The only time I build Radiant armor is when I build thunderbelt which defeats the purpose of a defense item. You build defense to soak damage not to deal damage. I don't see Radiant armor becoming any better with it's current passive. What's the use of stacking so much defense when 1 item gives 40% penetration and the red buff gives 10%(for mage heroes). There are so many physical defense items but only 2 proper magic defense items. I think they should add at least 1 new magic defense item
I think thunderbelt can be called a defense item since it does increase your survivability each time you activate it (even more by hitting lots of enemies.) I agree with Radiant armor as well. Too many penetration items and not enough magic defensive ones. The ones that do give too little.
@@Karmadillo-qh3jvnot really a problem with radiant armor but magic def in general, in the video you can see that everyone had Devine glaive but still radiant armor still did better on some heroes You also you need to understand that in the damage pen priority %pen is last meaning if you had 100 magic def and the enemy has 50 magic pen and 50% pen Then it'll be 100-50=50 50-50%=25 So Devine glaive is not as op as you think it is Imagine a hero with 100magic pen and 50% pen and you hit someone with 300magic def(barrats) It'll be 300-100=200 200-50%=100if it was the opposite then 300-50%=150-100=50
Athena's sure is strong, but theres an even better alternative, better than 25% Mag Reduc that percent pen can't argue with. And that would be Winter Crown, with just a bit of skill you can turn that 25% to 100% Dmg reduction. Works well against Harley, Hayabusa, Aamon, Yin, Ling, and many others that have unreasonable damages but gives you atleast half a second to react to, plus 2 seconds is so much time to ignore damages from install/duration Ults like Odette, Thamuz, Silvana, and other heroes who create a field of hurt on them or around them, or like an Argus ult.
In my opinion, despite the damage taken, the gold cost for the item should be considered as well. Athena cost 2150, while Radiant cost 1880, a 270 gold difference (also, Radiant has better and smooth upgrading paths) From this video, I think when the % diff is above 15%, the "Athena" is definitely the heroes counter. For the %diff is below 5%, I think the "Radiant" is their true counter. For % diff between 5% to 15%, that will be tricky. However, for squishy, Athena is their only choices.
Given how different their specific purpose are, the minimal difference in Gold Cost was not considered in this video. Sure Radiant has a nice build path, but nobody is going to build Radiant into a single Eudora on the enemy side. End of the day, you should build according to which Passive you need, rather than the Gold Cost.
Unless ur hero scales off magic def like Edith, Athena gives more overall protection, not even the cooldown on athena is long enough to justify building radiant instead. (For those who somehow didn't know yet, they nerfed radiant like a long while back, now, building radiant for repetitive dmg like chang e ult is not even good anymore)
I wouldn't say Radiant is bad. It still depends on the situation. If the profile of the enemy team is long magic damage windows, the Radiant willl still outperform Athena.
Radiant can never stand alone when facing against multiple magic dealer, I've always pair it with Rosegold for DPS/burst hero or Oracle for tanky/sustain hero
actually, radiant armor is more viable for tank users who can utilize thunderbelt better like khufra and hylos. Thunderbelt scales off of hybrid defense, hence khufra with 48 magic defense + 120 extra magic defense from stacks gains extra 168 true damage (including the 2nd skill it can bump up to extra 336 true dmg )
On my experience, Radiant Armor is better than Athena's Shield if you're playing a hero that is very strong on prolonged fights. You may lose a chunk of health in the first 3 seconds but after that, you'll just automatically win.
Still depends on the situation. Are you really going to build Radiant if the only enemy Magic DMG source is Eudora? But yeah, currently the meta has probably 2x Magic DMG sources in a team, so Radiant does have an advantage as long as you're not a squishy.
Simple solution: just buy both 😂 On a serious note, the test at the end should really be taken with a grain of salt. For example, although the Zhuxin test shows Athena being a better option, how realistic is it for a Zhuxin to land every single hit? What would normally happen is: Zhuxin uses her s2 to poke you, removing Athena’s passive. In this situation, Radiant would be more useful as she is poking and resetting its passive. I think Radiant just needs a stacking speed buff, from 0.6 down to 0.4 or something. In this very Burst oriented meta, Athena’s frontloaded DMG reduction is significantly more useful.
Yup, which is why I added the disclaimer at the end that the showcases were merely test situations and you'll likely face something different in an actual game. In the end, adjust as necessary, the data is there to help you make that decision, not to actually decide for you 😎
Thank you so much for this great video! I love the systematic testing. Could you do physical defense items also? 🙏 My primary takeaway is make sure you get both for team fights if your enemy team is full of magic damage. But build asthena’s shield first if your 1v1 with a magic damage dealer in your lane or if your gold and Julian is enemy jungle. 😊😆
these days i use Radiant based what hero i use not what hero i try to counter, like Terizla & Ruby for example, long lasting hero like them can use radiant to it utmost potential. but yeah generally as a "counter" item, this ain't it. Divine Glaive bullshit 60% PEN cap is the main reason for me, like why did they decide to do this? pretty sure they are the only moba that does this -_-, everyone else magic %PEN Item capped at 40, 45 at most Seriously, wth moonton?
One of the factors of considering radiant is that it could trigger some passive well, like thunderbolt passive +more magic defence = more true dmg with basic attack, or heroes passive like edith ultimate passive that convert her additional magic resistance as more magic dmg
what i've learnt: squishy heroes as marksmen, mages get athena due to low hp you cant risk letting radiant armor increase and die tanky heroes like frontliner tanks, sustain fighters, tank junglers get radiant armor as high hp pool to withstand long battles and to hold the lord while enemy is dealing the magic against you
i build them base on enemy team composition like lets say theres a eudora + a baxia on the enemy team i go for radiant armor and augment it with twilight armor baxia can stack radiant armor while twilight cuts eudoras burst permanently even if she builds mag pen
why not athena's shield vs twilight armor for tanks? I'm a tank roamer main and this is something I need to convince my friends that sometimes I can ditch athena's shield for the twilight armor.
twilight armor requires you to have specific build and heroes for it's passive benefit with the more hp you have, but most meta item and heroes doesn't have HP focus like dominance ice, and demon hunter sword which is meta melts HP builds
not that athena shield could be better at actual game for tanks, all players especially in the late game won't unnecessarily burst their skills to tanks but instead poke to trigger and nullify the passive (like in comparison of Kadita's passive, I like to poke her to trigger her 30 secs cooldown). its cooldown can be extended too by dealing bits of damage to keep them in combat like valir's passive or even from the glowing wand's burn, so I do think that Athena's shield is used to protects squishy heroes from ambush while the radiant armor is for those who soak dmg in long term. There will be also instances that mages and supports check bushes with their skills which trigger both items passive, athena's losing its passive while radiance armor's increasing its passive so there's that.
I hope they combine Athena & Radiant Armor . They trying to do Combo items for fighter mm. Now for tank for physical we already have Domince ice its anti heal & speed item. With this they should add new combined item for magic defense . If they did this we can support survive and we can add damage item hopefully . It will make playing tank more fun .
In solo play, the Athina shield is almost always better, because if you are dying from magic damage, you are most probably getting one shot by assassins or mages, which Athina prevents. I buy Athina on Damage Fighter or Markman every time I'm getting targeted by magic damage. 3 seconds, it's a long time when you are fighting mid to late game, and you can easily kill the enemy in those 3 seconds or escape.
I think they should reduce the passive of radiant to at least 0.5s, it’d make so that both would have an effect change at 3s instead of that 0.6s gap when you build both, radiant being weaker also sounds somewhat justified if you compare the prices even though radiant would definitely feel underwhelming if simply comparing effectiveness. Also thanks for the videos, always helpful 🫡
Hylos specifically, yes. But even without Glaive, Athena still outperforms Radiant if the damage window is within 3s. So it still depends. Radiant is better against Hylos only because his window is most likely more than 3s.
Bro tip: Build both if you can. I found myself taking 7k through Athena because the maguc def it had wasnt enough and the amount of penetration enemies have is just crazy so in order to avoid having literally 0 magic def and thus making Athena's passive useless, we also need Radiant on top. I've found myself taking much less damage, by 2-3k even. Build Radiant as 1st item because thats where its BROKEN since enemies still dont have that pen. Then build whatever phys def items you need and take Athena as 3rd or 4th item, depending on which hero is gonna snowball more.
Likely something went wrong with nana. 29% more shouldn't theoretically happen... But amazing job. I've now come up with numerous cases thanks to what you've done! ❤❤
Next test is that one armor to counter skills base fighter, dunno what its called but its recommended when facing zilong which is strange since zilong is atk speed base idk
As a tank main, radiant is far superior. We are usually in the fights for 5 to 10s. Thunder Belt and Clock of Destiny are pretty much staples when I run magic dmg tanks + Radiant you can sort of buff out the effects of PEN items. Also im a firm believer in Vengeance Battle Skill on most tanks that dont require blink. Not to mention overall Twilight Armor is far superior to Athena in most endgame fights.
Hmmm for Edith is Radiant still better tho? Since by the time you ult, radiant armor may have gotten stacks already. And i usually build that regen thingy early into radiant since Edith has no built-in sustain
Does this mean that if the opponents have only one mage, then you need to buy Athena's shield and only him? Even if your opponent is Harley or Chang e?
Yes, but it will also depend on how the enemy plays those heroes. If Chang'e builds for Attack Speed, her damage window will be much longer than just her Ult, which means Radiant could be better. So adjust accordingly.
I used to build though boots and oracle when they gave 22 and 45 magic defense, then build radiant armor basically every match, after the nerf of radiant armor I only use Athena now. Items change so fast.
Can we get a test of when i should buy malesfic roar ? Like 80 physical+ ? If i play assassin and i only kill their mm so i even need malesfic roar to kill the mm/mage ? Since they barely have any defense, wouid it be better to just get other items to burst them down ?
my ml teacher listened to my prayers... staying in that livestream was worth it ah i see why the video took long to be released, your dedication to stay true and be as accurate as possible is outstanding truly the best mlbb guide youtuber
Can you please make a video about Twilight armor? I think it's a really unique way to lower incoming damage, but i'm not sure about its efficiency compared to other items...
I love videos that do analytics stuff on MLBB I want to give a comments that what makes radiant armor is inferior to athena shield is the cumulative damage. Despite radiant armor being superior in the 3s above, but the moment when the cumulative damage using athena shield has exceed the cumulative damage using radiant armor is (my approximation) 5s-7s above which is too long to make radiant armor a better choice Once again, great video
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video. It will largely depend on the damage profile of the enemy Magic damage dealers. Athena will not always be superior, and neither will Radiant. It all depends in the end 😎
Radiant armor needs a buff imo 3 seconds ramp up time is too long to tank heroes like Julian, Natan, zhask and Xavier. Since they can deal both burst and consistent DMG with low downtime period. Though bringing both twilight armor and Radiant might do the trick but still items like Radiant, Blade armor and Queen's wings needs some kind of buff to be more relevant in more scenarios
I would say overall Athena is always the choice why? Well first of all you wouldn't be tanking so dam long anyway but even if you did their skill would probably be in cooldown the moment your Athena is on cooldown. Radiant armor has some cases for dps mage but they can just buy divine glaive to counter that huge pool of magic defense.
Glaive also counters Athena's Magic Defense as shown in the data. The more important thing as I mentioned should be the damage window. Athena does it job against burst magic dmg with a short window, while Radiant does it job against sustained magic dmg with a long window.
As squisy, just build athena cause their damage will burst you down anyway, but as a tank or sustain fighter, then go for radiant as thier both thier damage are not relatively high so you can proglong the team fight Although you can later get athena at the late game but also consider your hp pool and the other items you need to counter their physical heros
And one more thing, maybe this video can help me update information on fandom. (Well, I will just put the best counters only) And another thing, what if someone post your video to Discord's suggetions? They are gonna like: "See this video? Radiant Armor so sucks."
0.4s internal cooldown would be a good buff for radiant armor, it would ensure that the passive could help even with burst, but obviously not as well as Athena
It could make it too good. The sweet spot would probably be 0.5s which would make it a 3s window to get to full stacks. That would make it fully effective the same time as it would make Athena ineffective.
I hate the new athena shield passive, old was better Gived you 10 percent shield of your hp every 15 seconds Even in battle New athena doesnt give you shield in battle, sustain fighters, hp healers, uranus, yz, ruby etc, who wants to be in fight more 5 seconds they can be bursted down by 2 second simple chain cc effect Best way to buy both of it 😂
Yes, but that would also kind of make Radiant too strong since most of the Mages do have multi-hit attacks. The best solution may be to remove ICD completely but make it have like 20 stacks so it takes alot more hits to be fully effective.
To summarise for those who don't want to watch a 14 minute video: Radiant is better for tanks and Athenas is better for squishy heroes(damage dealers). Reason why: Tanks will build other defensive items as well that will help them tank the damage longer aka damage taking window is longer. But if I was playing Layla against Harley or Eudora, I would build Athena's.
Usually i pick Radiant for its slightly higher regen stat As i always use Guardian helmet with me. I can see if you need movement speed Radiant can be paird with Breast plate, 2 items to be like Athena
All I got from this was "Radiant Armor needs a buff"..
Or just combine the items into one
@@Rainer69 Or just combine curse helmet and radiant armor into one
@@johnpaulponayo5775 what's wrong with combining them together?
@@Rainer69 I just think Curse helmet is more underwhelming than Athena shield.
@@johnpaulponayo5775 Cursed Helmet went from being in every Tank's kit (especially Junglers) to only being viable for High HP heroes; and the worst part, it is not a priority, therefore replaceable.
i think there is 2 major reason of why radiant < athena although they both get nefted
- radiant lost it most important feature: magic dmg reduction
-the rise of burst build and some adjustment on hero that supposed to be countered by radiant (zhask from dps to burst; natan who can jump on you and kill you within 2 sec; change and other mage with wishing lantern)
if moonton want radiant armor viable again, i think bring back the magic dmg reduction is the right move since the reason it was removed is because of the past glowing wand that increase magic dmg taken (which also got removed) and reduce the stacking time of radiant from 0.6s to 0.3 or 0.5
I also preferred the Magic DMG Reduction effect, but ig it kinda limited the potential of certain heroes. For example, their latest release Zhuxin would really be quite handicapped by the old Radiant Armor.
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming I agree, it wouldn't be fun having flat 1 damage on enemies with all her skills 😆
FYI, Wishing Lantern's damage actually can be reduce by Magic Defense.
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming Yea lol, if they bring back the magic def reduction tho, that would be great, as for the other heroes, I think buffing their magic scaling would help them
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming I think they should bring back the dmg reduction, and lower the other stats a little bit, or maybe increase the stacking passive more if they're not gonna bring back the dmg reduction
You can always adjust your play style for Athena Shield but not Radiant Armor.
Yup. Athena is brain dead the choice for most heroes since most squishy hero wont survive more that 3s. Radiant is only for tanky heroes who can survive more than 3 second under constant damage.
Radiant is really for tanky heroes who can stay active as frontline most of the time. Athena's passive usually gets poked out while zoning but radiant can go long enough that you'll get full stacks once they finally to initiate a teamfight. Radiant is used against support heroes that baits out Athena. However, even if stragetically used, Radiant is still a weak item in today's META [the dmg reduction change is insane], it honestly needs a buff to be properly played.
Still depends on the situation. Would you really buy Radiant as a tanky hero if the enemy's only magic DMG source is a single Eudora?
@@RubyRubyRubyGamingif the other 4 heroes is physical, no tank should be buying athena against eudora anyway. you alr have high hp, which naturally counters burst. the eudora cant afford to waste ult on you.
@@quibble9003 well, thats assuming that as a tank you are facing eudora equally in a perfect scenario interms of level. but most of the time you are underlevel and underequip as a tank since you are earning less
if the enemy eudora has been fed and your participation as a tank is vital. like tigreal which provides insane crowd control, eudora's ult is not wasted
just because you are tank it doesnt mean you will never be the enemies' ult priority
@@konnichiyawasan1619 idk bro, tough boots and silence robe are extremely gold efficient
@@quibble9003 Silence robe?
Heroes building Windtalker (mostly marksman) can waste Athena shield's passive
Indeed
and phevous revamp can too
or the 3rd talent of tank emblem that deal magic damage aoe
@@johnsonfromml8662 smart
I like the effect of radiant as tank, as in real world scenario, war lasted more than 3 secs in mid to late game
And tanks rarely get bursted (unless losing very badly)
I hope we get an item where it doesn't need to wait for more than 3secs,but for multiple damage hit for example: harley, julian, aamon
The old Radiant used to be that way, but alas, we're here with this one 😢
@@RubyRubyRubyGamingRuby, a lot of stuff I want to go through (though I haven’t watched the video yet).
Radiant is not exactly useless, a lot of pros use it because teamfights in high ranks and professional scenes are pretty long and dragging. It’s more desirable if you went radiant on a adc since it gives you more dmg red than athena, and it’s also still usable with bruisers and tanks since radiant is already better than Athena (without effect) even with one stack.
Since Athena doesn’t start the effect cooldown until you leave combat, then once you start teamfighting, then it basically becomes useless.
It’s still countered by divine glaive, but it’s a good counter item against genius wand.
Radiant was never useless. They both fulfill their purpose as shown in the video. The question is more "which one is better for what situation" rather than "how useless is Radiant?"
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming Yeah, looked through the video now. I just misunderstood your comment is all.
One reason for Athena's effictivity in this video is the simulation of the heroes landing combos easily, which gave Athena's passive the advantage. Radiant Armor is still a good pick against DPS Mages for Exp and Tanks, who typically tend to last longer in a casual-ranked match.
Yup, as I mentioned, these are test situations and combos will likely differ in a real game. The data is merely data, so every viewer should consider their own game situation and use the data to make their own informed decision on what's best 😎
So for the damage window bit, all I got from it is that: Athena's Shield for Squishies for that immediate protection against Burst damage and the Radiant Armor for Tanks since they can last more in a battle and are mostly secondary targets after the squishy allies are slain.
Yes, unless there is only one source of magic damage and it is a burst mage. Then you only need athena for tanks too
That wasn't really the message. Squishies specifically should probably use Athena due to their small HP pool, but for Tanks, it should be adjusted according to what damage window you're facing
i think 0.6s cd is too long for Radiant, hopefully they buffed it maybe like 0.3s? surely they will right? moonton is a good devs right?
I think they just don't want it to clash with Athena's purpose 🤔
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming in the previous update before the radiant revamp
it sure did 😂😂😂
you can tank chang'e without divine glaive face on before the update
Radiant armor is absolutely useless as of now. Even a yve drains a tank's hp like an mm. One ulti from chang'e will almost kill u even at lvl 4. The only time I build Radiant armor is when I build thunderbelt which defeats the purpose of a defense item. You build defense to soak damage not to deal damage.
I don't see Radiant armor becoming any better with it's current passive. What's the use of stacking so much defense when 1 item gives 40% penetration and the red buff gives 10%(for mage heroes). There are so many physical defense items but only 2 proper magic defense items. I think they should add at least 1 new magic defense item
I think thunderbelt can be called a defense item since it does increase your survivability each time you activate it (even more by hitting lots of enemies.)
I agree with Radiant armor as well. Too many penetration items and not enough magic defensive ones. The ones that do give too little.
@@Karmadillo-qh3jvnot really a problem with radiant armor but magic def in general, in the video you can see that everyone had Devine glaive but still radiant armor still did better on some heroes
You also you need to understand that in the damage pen priority %pen is last meaning if you had 100 magic def and the enemy has 50 magic pen and 50% pen
Then it'll be 100-50=50 50-50%=25
So Devine glaive is not as op as you think it is
Imagine a hero with 100magic pen and 50% pen and you hit someone with 300magic def(barrats)
It'll be 300-100=200 200-50%=100if it was the opposite then
300-50%=150-100=50
Athena's sure is strong, but theres an even better alternative, better than 25% Mag Reduc that percent pen can't argue with.
And that would be Winter Crown, with just a bit of skill you can turn that 25% to 100% Dmg reduction. Works well against Harley, Hayabusa, Aamon, Yin, Ling, and many others that have unreasonable damages but gives you atleast half a second to react to, plus 2 seconds is so much time to ignore damages from install/duration Ults like Odette, Thamuz, Silvana, and other heroes who create a field of hurt on them or around them, or like an Argus ult.
In my opinion, despite the damage taken, the gold cost for the item should be considered as well.
Athena cost 2150, while Radiant cost 1880, a 270 gold difference (also, Radiant has better and smooth upgrading paths)
From this video, I think when the % diff is above 15%, the "Athena" is definitely the heroes counter.
For the %diff is below 5%, I think the "Radiant" is their true counter.
For % diff between 5% to 15%, that will be tricky.
However, for squishy, Athena is their only choices.
Given how different their specific purpose are, the minimal difference in Gold Cost was not considered in this video. Sure Radiant has a nice build path, but nobody is going to build Radiant into a single Eudora on the enemy side. End of the day, you should build according to which Passive you need, rather than the Gold Cost.
Unless ur hero scales off magic def like Edith, Athena gives more overall protection, not even the cooldown on athena is long enough to justify building radiant instead. (For those who somehow didn't know yet, they nerfed radiant like a long while back, now, building radiant for repetitive dmg like chang e ult is not even good anymore)
I wouldn't say Radiant is bad. It still depends on the situation. If the profile of the enemy team is long magic damage windows, the Radiant willl still outperform Athena.
Radiant can never stand alone when facing against multiple magic dealer, I've always pair it with Rosegold for DPS/burst hero or Oracle for tanky/sustain hero
actually, radiant armor is more viable for tank users who can utilize thunderbelt better like khufra and hylos. Thunderbelt scales off of hybrid defense, hence khufra with 48 magic defense + 120 extra magic defense from stacks gains extra 168 true damage (including the 2nd skill it can bump up to extra 336 true dmg )
On my experience, Radiant Armor is better than Athena's Shield if you're playing a hero that is very strong on prolonged fights.
You may lose a chunk of health in the first 3 seconds but after that, you'll just automatically win.
Still depends on the situation. Are you really going to build Radiant if the only enemy Magic DMG source is Eudora? But yeah, currently the meta has probably 2x Magic DMG sources in a team, so Radiant does have an advantage as long as you're not a squishy.
but in a real game, sustained damage mages would wait out athena's before throwing more spells
Yup, which is why my advice is to adjust as necessary. The info is just a guideline for you to choose the right item for the right purpose
Bro cooked the whole math class and thought its mlbb
Bro ur deep analysis of items and other aspects of game are noice
Thank you 😄
YOU ARE THE GOAT OF INFORMATIONAL VIDEOS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTENT BRO 🫡🫡🫡🫡
And thank you for watching! 💛
Simple solution: just buy both 😂
On a serious note, the test at the end should really be taken with a grain of salt. For example, although the Zhuxin test shows Athena being a better option, how realistic is it for a Zhuxin to land every single hit?
What would normally happen is: Zhuxin uses her s2 to poke you, removing Athena’s passive. In this situation, Radiant would be more useful as she is poking and resetting its passive.
I think Radiant just needs a stacking speed buff, from 0.6 down to 0.4 or something. In this very Burst oriented meta, Athena’s frontloaded DMG reduction is significantly more useful.
Yup, which is why I added the disclaimer at the end that the showcases were merely test situations and you'll likely face something different in an actual game. In the end, adjust as necessary, the data is there to help you make that decision, not to actually decide for you 😎
Thank you so much for this great video! I love the systematic testing. Could you do physical defense items also? 🙏
My primary takeaway is make sure you get both for team fights if your enemy team is full of magic damage. But build asthena’s shield first if your 1v1 with a magic damage dealer in your lane or if your gold and Julian is enemy jungle. 😊😆
these days i use Radiant based what hero i use not what hero i try to counter, like Terizla & Ruby for example, long lasting hero like them can use radiant to it utmost potential. but yeah generally as a "counter" item, this ain't it.
Divine Glaive bullshit 60% PEN cap is the main reason for me, like why did they decide to do this? pretty sure they are the only moba that does this -_-, everyone else magic %PEN Item capped at 40, 45 at most
Seriously, wth moonton?
Glaive is indeed the strongest damage item in MLBB. No mage hero in the right mind will not build it
One of the factors of considering radiant is that it could trigger some passive well, like thunderbolt passive +more magic defence = more true dmg with basic attack, or heroes passive like edith ultimate passive that convert her additional magic resistance as more magic dmg
what i've learnt:
squishy heroes as marksmen, mages get athena due to low hp you cant risk letting radiant armor increase and die
tanky heroes like frontliner tanks, sustain fighters, tank junglers get radiant armor as high hp pool to withstand long battles and to hold the lord while enemy is dealing the magic against you
i build them base on enemy team composition
like lets say theres a eudora + a baxia on the enemy team i go for radiant armor and augment it with twilight armor
baxia can stack radiant armor while twilight cuts eudoras burst permanently even if she builds mag pen
why not athena's shield vs twilight armor for tanks? I'm a tank roamer main and this is something I need to convince my friends that sometimes I can ditch athena's shield for the twilight armor.
twilight armor requires you to have specific build and heroes for it's passive benefit with the more hp you have, but most meta item and heroes doesn't have HP focus like dominance ice, and demon hunter sword which is meta melts HP builds
not that athena shield could be better at actual game for tanks, all players especially in the late game won't unnecessarily burst their skills to tanks but instead poke to trigger and nullify the passive (like in comparison of Kadita's passive, I like to poke her to trigger her 30 secs cooldown). its cooldown can be extended too by dealing bits of damage to keep them in combat like valir's passive or even from the glowing wand's burn, so I do think that Athena's shield is used to protects squishy heroes from ambush while the radiant armor is for those who soak dmg in long term. There will be also instances that mages and supports check bushes with their skills which trigger both items passive, athena's losing its passive while radiance armor's increasing its passive so there's that.
End of the day, still depends on the situation. Which is why I showed the data and you guys can come to your own conclusions 😄
Radiant could be better if you're fighting against 2 magic dmg dealers and they spaced out their attacks from each other
Yes, as I mentioned, Athena's Passive can be easily poked out if there's other Magic DMG dealers on the enemy side
Regardless of what i settled on the two items , i would like to thank you for the effort you've into making these vids .
thanks mate 👏
I hope they combine Athena & Radiant Armor .
They trying to do Combo items for fighter mm.
Now for tank for physical we already have Domince ice its anti heal & speed item.
With this they should add new combined item for magic defense .
If they did this we can support survive and we can add damage item hopefully .
It will make playing tank more fun .
@KhalidKingDom the fck? Lol no, that's like saying give mms an extra item slot so they can have a defence item. Would make mms more fun
athena was good for assassin to taking burst magic dmg while radiant be used by fighter/tank to remain in war fight
interesting that even on DPS-type magic radiant even didn't works much, i guess the magic reduction on radiant is too low since the adjustment
In solo play, the Athina shield is almost always better, because if you are dying from magic damage, you are most probably getting one shot by assassins or mages, which Athina prevents. I buy Athina on Damage Fighter or Markman every time I'm getting targeted by magic damage. 3 seconds, it's a long time when you are fighting mid to late game, and you can easily kill the enemy in those 3 seconds or escape.
I think they should reduce the passive of radiant to at least 0.5s, it’d make so that both would have an effect change at 3s instead of that 0.6s gap when you build both, radiant being weaker also sounds somewhat justified if you compare the prices even though radiant would definitely feel underwhelming if simply comparing effectiveness.
Also thanks for the videos, always helpful 🫡
I wonder if radiant isn’t better when it’s edith since she benefits from def (if it works?)
Note : I meant useful not helpful even though it is helpful lol, my English ain’t that great sorry :oo
So radiant is better for heros who can’t use divine like Hylos
Hylos specifically, yes. But even without Glaive, Athena still outperforms Radiant if the damage window is within 3s. So it still depends. Radiant is better against Hylos only because his window is most likely more than 3s.
Bro tip: Build both if you can. I found myself taking 7k through Athena because the maguc def it had wasnt enough and the amount of penetration enemies have is just crazy so in order to avoid having literally 0 magic def and thus making Athena's passive useless, we also need Radiant on top. I've found myself taking much less damage, by 2-3k even.
Build Radiant as 1st item because thats where its BROKEN since enemies still dont have that pen. Then build whatever phys def items you need and take Athena as 3rd or 4th item, depending on which hero is gonna snowball more.
The damage output of burst heroes after doing this: 🤡
Likely something went wrong with nana. 29% more shouldn't theoretically happen... But amazing job. I've now come up with numerous cases thanks to what you've done! ❤❤
Next test is that one armor to counter skills base fighter, dunno what its called but its recommended when facing zilong which is strange since zilong is atk speed base idk
unrelated question, but when should i change skypiercer at the late game?
You should become a team analyst
before the update radiant's passive was giving magic damage reduction i think and then after they made it just gain magic damage nerfed it a little
despite the discussion, props to the outstanding effort given by this guy. like and subscribe the only way to thank his efforts. goodjob
As a tank main, radiant is far superior. We are usually in the fights for 5 to 10s. Thunder Belt and Clock of Destiny are pretty much staples when I run magic dmg tanks + Radiant you can sort of buff out the effects of PEN items. Also im a firm believer in Vengeance Battle Skill on most tanks that dont require blink. Not to mention overall Twilight Armor is far superior to Athena in most endgame fights.
Wasn't radiant armour back then the counter for mages that does a lot of damage over time? Like chang'e with her ult?
Can you make a video about Lightning Truncheon and Wishing lantern if it is a good combo or is it better to only have one of them 🥺
Hmmm for Edith is Radiant still better tho? Since by the time you ult, radiant armor may have gotten stacks already. And i usually build that regen thingy early into radiant since Edith has no built-in sustain
Does this mean that if the opponents have only one mage, then you need to buy Athena's shield and only him? Even if your opponent is Harley or Chang e?
Yes, but it will also depend on how the enemy plays those heroes. If Chang'e builds for Attack Speed, her damage window will be much longer than just her Ult, which means Radiant could be better. So adjust accordingly.
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming understood. thanks
We need more magic defense items tho.
Hope they'll introduce at least 1 more in future
Can do you review on how to play Slivanna? The items suitable for her passive in video?
I used to build though boots and oracle when they gave 22 and 45 magic defense, then build radiant armor basically every match, after the nerf of radiant armor I only use Athena now. Items change so fast.
Yeah, they keep changing the items and making my videos "old" 🤣
Can we get a test of when i should buy malesfic roar ? Like 80 physical+ ? If i play assassin and i only kill their mm so i even need malesfic roar to kill the mm/mage ? Since they barely have any defense, wouid it be better to just get other items to burst them down ?
Can you update the video about items that have been out for 8 months or more?
Can u use both together?
I love that you included chart. Its so much easier to understand
Glad to hear that you liked it! Put in a lot of work for the charts 😄
Also need an update on Genuis wind and divine glaive and the GW+DG combo comparison
I built both, then I'm unkillable😅😂
kindly make a video on best controls settings for each role
for me, I do the following, if the hero uses 2-3 attack items i use athena or else if its a tank build with good hp I go for radiant
They make radiant passive worse by changing it from magic reduction to flat magic defense
my ml teacher listened to my prayers... staying in that livestream was worth it
ah i see why the video took long to be released, your dedication to stay true and be as accurate as possible is outstanding truly the best mlbb guide youtuber
Thank you 💛💛 hope to see you again in the next stream!
Both radiant and blade armour needs a buff and should change the twilight armour passive to block dmg after 600
Chads and Sigmas: Builds both Athena and Radiant, becoming immortal to all magic damage in the game
Radiant has Thunderbelt to synergies with, so theres that buff
Why not buy the two of them?
Very good information thanks for da video
Glad you enjoyed it! 😄
Radiant is good for certain tanks like Uranus, can be better than Athena because of the HP regen stat if used correctly 😅😅
Does the new advance server buff on twilight armor help?
No idea, haven't been looking into Advanced Server stuff man
really good.
Moree content like this!!!
depends on enemy actually
TLDR; Athena for low hp and tanky heroes adjust according to enemy comp
If it is Edith, no question. Of course it will be 500% Radiant Armor
Can you please make a video about Twilight armor? I think it's a really unique way to lower incoming damage, but i'm not sure about its efficiency compared to other items...
I'll see what I can do 😄
Can you make exp guide
Actually, I have already made an EXP Lane guide! You can check out my channel, it's the most viewed video on it 🤣
I love videos that do analytics stuff on MLBB
I want to give a comments that what makes radiant armor is inferior to athena shield is the cumulative damage. Despite radiant armor being superior in the 3s above, but the moment when the cumulative damage using athena shield has exceed the cumulative damage using radiant armor is (my approximation) 5s-7s above which is too long to make radiant armor a better choice
Once again, great video
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video. It will largely depend on the damage profile of the enemy Magic damage dealers. Athena will not always be superior, and neither will Radiant. It all depends in the end 😎
When i play roam and if emeny have 2 apmdamage i buy both if they only have one ap i buy athena
can you do a vid on lantern vs divine glaive pls. based on my testing, most of the time lantern does more damage than divine glaive
I'll see what I can do as the analysis for this will be quite complex since Lantern's DMG is mostly based on Current HP
Wait does torch trigger RA passive?
You mean Glowing Wand? Yes, it will trigger Radiant Armor's Passive
Very informative content! Keep making videos like this. I am always watching your vids.
Thank you! Glad to hear you're looking forward to more 😄
Radiant armor needs a buff imo
3 seconds ramp up time is too long to tank heroes like Julian, Natan, zhask and Xavier. Since they can deal both burst and consistent DMG with low downtime period.
Though bringing both twilight armor and Radiant might do the trick but still items like Radiant, Blade armor and Queen's wings needs some kind of buff to be more relevant in more scenarios
I would say overall Athena is always the choice why? Well first of all you wouldn't be tanking so dam long anyway but even if you did their skill would probably be in cooldown the moment your Athena is on cooldown. Radiant armor has some cases for dps mage but they can just buy divine glaive to counter that huge pool of magic defense.
Glaive also counters Athena's Magic Defense as shown in the data. The more important thing as I mentioned should be the damage window. Athena does it job against burst magic dmg with a short window, while Radiant does it job against sustained magic dmg with a long window.
And What if I met 2 different Magic heros (Yve and Faramis). Which Armor I should buy first?
As squisy, just build athena cause their damage will burst you down anyway, but as a tank or sustain fighter, then go for radiant as thier both thier damage are not relatively high so you can proglong the team fight
Although you can later get athena at the late game but also consider your hp pool and the other items you need to counter their physical heros
For this specific combo of Yve and Faramis, I'd recommend Radiant
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming what about Yve and Eudora?
Moonton did radiant dirty
No zilong is harmed in this video 😂
🤣🤣
@@RubyRubyRubyGamingnot flattering but your guides made me a lot better mlbb player ❤
And one more thing, maybe this video can help me update information on fandom. (Well, I will just put the best counters only)
And another thing, what if someone post your video to Discord's suggetions? They are gonna like: "See this video? Radiant Armor so sucks."
Can't stop people from coming to quick conclusions. Such is the current landscape of short attention spans.
0.4s internal cooldown would be a good buff for radiant armor, it would ensure that the passive could help even with burst, but obviously not as well as Athena
It could make it too good. The sweet spot would probably be 0.5s which would make it a 3s window to get to full stacks. That would make it fully effective the same time as it would make Athena ineffective.
3:07 THE ONE PIECE IS REAL!!!
I hate the new athena shield passive, old was better
Gived you 10 percent shield of your hp every 15 seconds
Even in battle
New athena doesnt give you shield in battle, sustain fighters, hp healers, uranus, yz, ruby etc, who wants to be in fight more 5 seconds they can be bursted down by 2 second simple chain cc effect
Best way to buy both of it 😂
just get both and let the marksman melt your tanky as* 😅
if they want this to be more effective they should probably remove the cooldown of gaining stacks
Yes, but that would also kind of make Radiant too strong since most of the Mages do have multi-hit attacks. The best solution may be to remove ICD completely but make it have like 20 stacks so it takes alot more hits to be fully effective.
Great video🔥
Thank you! 💛
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
They're both better with Carmilla...
To summarise for those who don't want to watch a 14 minute video: Radiant is better for tanks and Athenas is better for squishy heroes(damage dealers).
Reason why: Tanks will build other defensive items as well that will help them tank the damage longer aka damage taking window is longer.
But if I was playing Layla against Harley or Eudora, I would build Athena's.
Usually i pick Radiant for its slightly higher regen stat As i always use Guardian helmet with me. I can see if you need movement speed Radiant can be paird with Breast plate, 2 items to be like Athena
Tbh the regen it gives is negligible. Also, Radiant doesn't give movement speed?
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming
It's 4 points more regen so It's a marketing scheme 🤣, radiant never had that buff?
Great video 👍👍❤
Thank you 🤗
I just build both hahaha
This only means that the new current skins and heroes are mostly magic damage heroes
you sound like a southeast asian person? malaysia or down south more?
I'm from Singapore 😎
@@RubyRubyRubyGaming wow didnt expect a singapore person to do a in depth analysis of mlbb, i always thought it was a busy country