Finally made this video! It's probably been the most requested video I've had up till now, so I hope it reaches your expectations! I'll be trying to make at least a video weekly if not two (was supposed to start last week but this video was quite a long arduous project). As always thanks for all your support, you are all truly amazing and I hope to keep you entertained for years to come! :)
I believe that Tom Bombadil was the Master that Ilu Iluvitar used to create all of the other races of Middle Earth. Not that he was a ruler over them, but the form used that became the blueprint of the other races, ie. the Humanoid form. If you notice in movies, that we do not use real Elves, Dwarves, Vulcans, or Klingons, but in fact those are Humans. Think of Tom Bombadil as the original generation of that concept.
This theory has a huge flaw : it was shown time and again that the rings have a power over the land of arda . Also the land itself would not be uncaring for the fate of the land , it's own fate . Concerning the music of creation it was flawed by nature as melkor has wished it when he decided to sing up when they created it under the guide of Eru and we don't see that aspect in Bombadil. I think the simplest , but probably the most frustating , answer is the right one here . He just is ! He is something outside the Ainulindalë . He can interact with the world and the world can interact with him but it hold no power over him therefore the one ring , one of the ring of power, has no hold or interest for him . What he is and how he came to be here is something that we can't understand with the prism of the setting itself. His entire character feel like a representation of somebody that was dear to tolkien maybe a fellow soldier that died .
NotSnarl But he was Very much NOT dead and in fact still in his prime at the time of the planning and filming of the movies from 1997 through 2002(3?). Still I have to agree that Brian Blessed would have been a far better pick. He can sing and though he is well known for his bombast, when he puts his mind to it - or is flat out told to by a director - he can do a very gentle and modulated performance. Plus he is VERY English and if I recall correctly is yet another fan of Tolkien like Christopher Lee(RIP).
'And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).' The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 144, dated 1954
Makes sense in our world. But in the world of arda it doesnt. Because you know they are written and they 'dont know' if you catch my meaning. It makes sense if tom is indeed iluvitar. Since the valar and maiar live in valinor, why wouldnt iluvitar join arda as well?
This is probably the best discussion I have seen on the mystery of Tom Bombadil, and how he fits into the Tolkien universe. As you correctly stated, Tolkien was intentionally vague and nondescript about Bombadil’s place in his own creation, which is so unusual given how carefully he described every other aspect of it. The simple answer is that Bombadil is an aberration that Tolkien introduced into the LOTR story from one of his other stories, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, which is completely unrelated to the stories about Middle Earth. This is why Bombadil doesn’t seem to really fit because he was never meant to be part of this story. He is merely a cameo from a different story. But since Bombadil does appear in the story of Middle Earth, and in deed, plays an important part in the Lord of the Rings, we are forced to place him somewhere and I think your placement of him being a personification of nature, which was created by the Music of the Ainur, is the best, most plausible answer.
Cheers Martin! I agree with you that even though Bombadil is meant to remain an engima, it's still interesting to find a way to fit him and his background in the story!
Greetings Karl and Martin! First off Karl I greatly appreciate all your videos and the content of your Channel, you have greatly helped me better understand and enjoy Middle Earth/Arda and Tolkien’s Work! I agree with both you and Martin in regards to Tom Bombadil. I wanted to add my thoughts. Some of the other comments concerning Bombadil describe him as being a spirit that chose to remain neutral and fell somewhere between a Valar and a Maiar. I think that’s plausible seeing as to how even Gandalf seemed to want to spend time with Bombadil even though he himself was a Maiar. Also we know that Gandalf was a Maiar specifically tied to Nienna, and while I understand that Radaghast the Brown was the Maiar supposedly chosen by Yavanna, we also do not know if another could have chosen to leave or be sent to Middle earth by Yavanna before even the Maiar were sent. I think even if Bombadil was in fact an such a spirit that chose to remain Neutral, just like his Wife Goldberry, they each seemed to lean towards a specific Valar despite their Neutrality. As you said in your video about Radaghast, that he in the beginning had a clear mission but fell by the wayside due to his distraction and absolute love and adoration for the care and involvement in the natural world. Since as you say Bombadil was the physical manifestation of Arda, then almost by default that would make him Neutral, even despite his seemingly close ties to Yavanna.
I actually believe that Tom is an Eldritch being similar to Ungoliant in status - though he is not evil like her. If he was truly part of the Song I don't believe he would refer to either Melkor or the Valar as coming from "outside". I think he is an independent being that predated the Song of Eru Illuvatar and is a being of nature the same way way Ungoliant was a being of darkness.
This is what I thought, too. That he was a being from outside, first attracted to Arda as the music was forming it and he entered it, just to enjoy the experience of living in it, not wishing to dominate anything or feed off of it.
I think you got it fairly right. From another perspective, the one wherein Tolkien declares him a deliberate mystery, Bombadil is the kind of character you would find in folk tales, which inspired Tolkien, and precedes his development of High Fantasy as a new 20th century genre. In the folk tales, things are often mysterious and marvelous without any explanation of those things being found; they just are and we will never know how or why or where they originated. Tom is of that sort, and I like him best as captured in Bilbo's collection of Shire poems.
he took all this info from an analysis on the net which i have read. blatant rip off and i bet he hasn't even read the books, let alone gone through the material.
Honestly, even despite his appearance in 'The Hobbit,' Radagast is really no more than mentioned by name. The book tells us absolutely nothing about what he was really like... So even going by what he was like in the movie, there isn't really a base reference on his character so we can only go by the movie's *assumption* of what he was like.
@@onebehindthehair5472 Actually he sends the Eagle to bring messages to Gandalf at Isengard, figuring all was well; and so the Eagle was going to land at Isengard with the message. But Gandalf had his staff; so when he saw the Eagle coming, he was able to signal it to come onto the roof of Orthanc and carry him off, after telling the Eagle he was a prisoner there. Fortunately it was night, so the Eagle didn't get shot. .
I think he's something completely alien to ALL the beings of Middle Earth. He seems to be a fragment or remnant of the first song that somehow remained untainted before Melkor altered it, and that, somehow, this remnant of the song became sentient and chose an avatar.. Tom never said that he always had his present form (I think that's right). He seems out of place in that entire world but, at the same time, a limited aspect of it. If he is a living avatar of the first song, and therefore, perhaps a purity of Arda before Melkor's altering, it does make sense that he sings a lot and that his speech is very sing song, probably to represent how alien he is and that he is of the first song itself. He probably has power somewhere between a Maia and and Valar, if I had to guess on a whim.
That is my interpretation as well; Tom is the manifestation of the first song [and hence Arda] before disharmony appeared [and hence before beings with true free will appeared]. Did Eru realise all along that without conflict there is no growth and without sin there is no redemption and hence that Tom was very quickly going to be 'lost' in a world full of beings that can consciously choose to sin? His existence was inevitable but also so was his disconnection with every conscious being, be it a Valar or a Hobbit.
Thank you very much for this video. I am a Professor of Philosophy in a university, and was able to read at an extremely early age. In the 2cd Grade, I read the Hobbit, and I read all three books of the trilogy in the 3rd Grade. To verify that I was actually reading these books, my teachers asked me questions about the books that one could only know if they had been read! I'm 70 years old, now, and have read all of the books 17 times, and the Silmarillion at least 3 times (although it's not an easy read). I've subscribed to your channel, and I appreciate the effort that went into this one.
Amazing video! I love that even Tolkien himself humbly locked himself out on purpose, as the author, in deciding what Tom Bombadil is. He intentionally made him an enigma, and I feel when he went out of this way to say he is not Eru Iluvatar, he did so knowing he is both right, and also wrong. Tom Bombadil is beyond canon, and even the author himself cannot say what his canon story is, by design. Tom is every single one of the theories in your Video. Or none. Or all of them. The fact that Tolkien wrote him as being above his own opinion as the freaking AUTHOR just shows how amazing a writer he was, as every story needs true enigma that is everything or nothing that you want it to be. Almost like god. So in a way, Tolkien actually wrote a true omnipotent, Above All God character, whether he meant to or not, and despite saying he is NOT that. Goldberry put it best: “He Is.”
I don't think enigma necessarily implies total agnosticism or all possibilities on the table. At least some of the theories were fairly convincingly refuted in the video.
I see Bombadil similar to our mythology (finnish mythology) charecter called Väinämöinen, and i think they are related, since Tolkien was fond of our mythology. Basicly, there was first only water and world gave birth to Väinämäiöinen, who first just floated in the water, years and years, finally bird landed to his knee, then after while, bird made nest to his knee, but after while he felt nest making his knee hot, so he moved it. The nest felt down to water, and birds eggs felt to the water and when they broke, it made the world (lol, i know its sounds ridiculous), but its also told that he was helping to shape the world. So i think Bombadil and Väinämöinen where first beings of their worlds, who helped to shape them. Like they were part of their worlds, i think this might have inspired Tolkien about charesterics of Bombadil. Also other good note is, that Väinämöinen was also a great wizard/Sage/Wiseman, and how he made his spells to work, he sang. What is also one of Bombadils powers, like Bombadil sang to Old Oak, Väinämöinen also sang a guy to swamp, he made earth become bog, so they guy sank in it. I think Bombadil was made when middle earth was shaped, who helped to make world, as a father of the nature, who takes care of the natural balance, to see that everything was like it was meant to be. Its just a theory, but i wanted to share with you all, since not many people know about finnish mythology/folklore, but i know its a fact that Tolkien was fan of it, i just wanted to bring something more to this great video! The story about this guy Väinämöinen is called Kalevala, if you are intrested, read more modern version, since the older version are pretty tough, even for people like me, and its our native language, it was first writed like very old fashioned poetry.
Wow fantastic! I was a fan of the theory made by the narrator of the video as it made good sense. I still had my own personal questions though. This theory melds perfectly with his and is supported by real world facts of Tolken and his intrest on Finnish folklore. It fills the pockets and questions I had and overall is a great thought! Thank you!
This works for me. Otherwise, I see Tom as a Buddhist in a Christian Universe, seeking the middle road . I prefer your theory as I imagine Tolkien did. :)
This sounds right to me. I always thought there must have been some helper to mind the middle earth while is was being made. Flowers needing watered and things along that line.
I agree, he was there whilst melkor corrupted the land and yet tom was perfectly fine and came out unharmed, if he was the song he would have had melkors discord within him which doesn't fit tom as this pure personification of passive joy
Kind of. I reckon that just as Ungoliant was an incarnation of Void and Darkness, so Bombadil is an avatar of Arda itself, an embodiment of the life of the world. So from inside, rather than outside.
In reference to Bombadil, Tolkien himself said that some things should remain mysterious in any narrative, "especially if an explanation actually exists".
Tolkien explained it all in the origin story in which the song of the spirits Iluvatar created sang in the void. They sang the creation of Middle Earth but only some of the spirits went down into the Earth. By doing so they bound themselves there. Many of the greatest and lesser of them remained with Iluvatar. After ages went by they were joined by others who chose to bind themselves to the world. One of them joined the Valar in order to battle Melkor. Others who remain unconnected to the Valar and the Maiar of Middle Earth like Ungoliant retained their independence from both sides of the conflict. They retained their nature and lived as to their original qualities but were not considered part of either the Maiar who turned to Melkor or the Maiar who remained with Manwe. They were independent and some were greater like the Valar and some were lesser like the Maiar. All the Valar and all the Maiar were connected to nature in some specific way. They lived to keep the harmony of nature in balance. When the Council of Elrond is asked if Bombadil could be given the ring it took a Maiar to identify Bombadil and his nature without actually saying out loud who he is. Tolkien said "The ring has no power over him". Meaning the full force of the power poured into the one ring was not enough to overcome Tom even though it was enough to over throw all the Maiar it encountered like Saruman the White or the second greatest elf of Middle Earth Galadriel. He went on to say that Tom could withstand until the end but the overthrow of the world was within Saurons power and at the end even Bombadil would fall. The final thing that says it would be someone greater than a Maiar was when he said Tom would not understand why the ring was of any importance. He would lose it or place it somewhere and forget it. This would be the act of a Vala who was unconnected with the living beings of the world. One of the creators whose sole significance was focused on the world being shaped and tended to was both his and Goldberry. She was clearly referred to as the "River daughter" That identifies her precisely as the one who brings rain to the world from manwes air and delivers it to the world to support all life forming streams that then connect her to her Vala. Tom was more powerful than she but this was of no concern to either of them. The reason I go through all of this obvious stuff is to make the point that the ones who were called Valar and Maiar were specific to the descent into Middle Earth with intent to organize and run the world. This was not everyone by a long shot. The Ainur remained undefined as Valar or Maiar until they determined to participate in a side. Neither Tom nor Goldberry made that decision. They are Ainur of varying power. Tom could stand against Sauron a Maiar because he was greater but he was Ainur and by retaining that innocence he saw no point in the conflict.
@Min Medrevil I gotta hand it to you, you know your LOTR lore... And you're even bigger an LOTR geek than I am, which is saying a lot as I am well-versed myself in the lore of Middle Earth.
My own theory is that Tom Bombadil is the good side of Melkor, before he grew jealous and twisted, Melkor was the strongest of the Valar and so could'nt be destroyed, I believe they shattered his essence at the breaking of the world in the war with Morgoth and the Valar (like Sauron at the fall of Numenor who survived and lingered in Mirkwood) and banished his evil side to the abyss, which left his good side = Tom Bombadil, Goldberry is a Maiar who watches over him. this would explain why there is no presence of Tom Bombadil during the coming of the Elves/Dwarves and later the first Men
Gandalf visited him often, he just didn't stay long. Now Gandalf finally had about 2 years before he left Middle Earth forever, so he wanted to have a nice long visit with Tom; he never got the chance before, and never would after. .
Eru ilúvatar enters chat. Tom Bombadil enters chat. Eru ilúvatar: "Sup Bombi" Tom Bombadil: "Hey hoo" Eru ilúvatar: "So Bombadil I have this idea.." Tom Bombadil "Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!" Eru ilúvatar: "yeah yeah..well anyway I have this idea, You see I got my bitches singing back at my crib" Tom Bombadil: "derry dol!" Eru ilúvatar: "And then I thought ..Hey would't it be cool if I made their song real, Like real real y'know?" Tom Bombadil: "Hey! Come derry dol!" Eru ilúvatar: "Suuure..anyway Then I thought hey old Tom-B got this giant piece of floating rock in the void, Why don't I just ask him use his useless rock for this?" Tom Bombadil: "ring a dong dillo!" Eru ilúvatar: "Great it's a deal then, Now I'm really gonna fuck up your land but I promise to leave the whole thing round when I'm done, I'm sure you don't mind" Eru ilúvatar has left the chat. Tom Bombadil: "Hey now! merry dol! We'll be waiting for you?"
Tom is a metaphore for the knowledge of good and evil. After frodo and the others leave the Shire (Paradise) they suddenly find themselves having to contend against the dangers of the world of men. Tom provides the hobbits with the right knowledge to survive their trip through his lands. His wife is the representation of nature unbound, the true wild if you would. Bombadil through his knowledge of the world manages to tame and marry her, his knowledge is kind by design as he could have chosen to dominate the land and twist it to suit himself, instead he does what allows him to coexist with nature as a human man. Essentially the whole adventure through bombadil's lands serves to teach the hobbits who have only ever known the peace and safety of the Shire how to survive once they leave it behind
I just see him as existing outside the fate of Arda. That's it. An outsider. A transient spirit that came from elsewhere and because of that sees and knows more and less than anyone else. Not a nature spirit or any of the Valar or even the creator. This is why the Ring has no effect on him, and not much else does either, like the passing of the ages. He's literally not all there, not just figuratively. This is why it's a great argument that he is somewhat a representation of the author. But just one aspect. The idea of wanting to visit or live in a magical world like Middle Earth but not being able to or even actually willing to give up what you already have. But in spirit, at least partially, you are there. And so you get Tom Bombadil. I think a lot of people are convinced the author is also put into the story with Beren who had to try to steal the Silmarils from Morgoth's crown to prove his love for Luthien. This also ties into my favorite bible quote: "“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." If anyone embodies this quote, in the way I understand it, it is Tolkien. He created his own spiritual treasures that not just him, but everyone now treasures.
We all need spiritual mystery. I am satisfied that he is who he is, and that is something mysterious which fills me with hope and joy. Nicely done piece. Are you a Tolkien Society member?
I just had a wild epiphany as to the true identities of Tom & Goldberry. Check out this theory: Since the Ents and the trees in Fangorn could move and communicate, it would be logical to assume they had eternal souls or spirits. When Ents die, do their souls go to middle earth heaven, where Iluvatar resides? Just remember, Gandalf was sent back by Iluvatar, (as a greater more powerful wizard,) to finish his task, after he fought the Balrog to the death. Maybe Iluvatar sent back Telperion and Laurelin, after being murdered by Melkor and Ungoliant. Maybe their souls went back to Eru Iluvatar and he resurrected them as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, since their tasks were complete. After all, Tom was the *"Master of Water, Wood & Hill."* "Eat Earth, dig deep, drink water..." Earth is the hill, digging deep with roots is the wood, drinking water speaks for itself...😯 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Trees_of_Valinor#Creation_and_destruction www.henneth-annun.net/events_view.cfm?evid=1598 Your thoughts...
I know this is a delayed comment on this video but I have finally gotten around to watching your videos (my absolute favorite Tolkien lore channel). Tom seems to me to be a physical representation of the songs when the world was created. He would then be nothing like the creatures we understand in the Tolkien lore. I love this character and I love seeing interpretations of what he could be. He is a very pure/raw form of what middle earth is. Keep up the amazing videos!
The best part of Lord of The Rings is from they leave the shire until they reach the town of Bree. Its a trip out of common fantasy and into mythological space.
I always thought he was a maiar. With the Dark Lord referring to Sauron instead of Melkor and Middle-Earth instead of Arda. But, with Tom already being here before the arrival of the Ainur? Now I’m thinking that he represents the spirit of the Earth itself, with Goldberry representing mother nature, the Gaia. Good stuff!
"waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them" I believe this could be referring to the prophecy of Melkor. I don't have the quote on me, but basically the prophecy is; Melkor will break the doors of death and return to Middle-earth to plumage it into darkness. Mabye Tom is waiting for this to happen, and that's why he has basically stayed out of the conflicts of the world to insure that he is there when the prophecy happens. Tolkien wrote so much history into his books, but what ive found is there is 2 major things without much history. Tom & The prophecy. Now Tolkien did write a bit about the prophecy, but not a lot... kinda like he wrote about Tom a bit, but not a lot. He was there before Melkor, maybe he needs to be there after Melkor returns for the last time. Idk maybe im just dumb or something, but its kinda cool to think about (: So sad Tolkien passed away before writing a bit more on these subjects, forever shall we wonder.
Andrei Valentin cite your sources, she hailed from the void and darkness, and when she devoured the two trees and the jewels, even melkor was afraid of her, he’s afraid of a simple Maia? Unlikely, tho I could be wrong
@@jesusloverazariah you are correct. She definitely was NOT one of the ainur. Tolkien leaves her origin fuzzy because he wanted mystery in his world just like there is mystery in ours.
I don't closely follow the lord of the rings series, but your video made me really like this character. :) His whimsical smile and dress, and his personality and outlook, and his mysterious nature all make him feel very lovable to me.
Interesting points as well: Rain came about because Melkor introduce intense heat and cold into the Great Music, and Illuvatar revealed that water would accept heat and cooperate with the wind to make clouds and rain, which would forever echo the Great Music (like the Sea does), and so Manwe and Ulmo would always be allies. Further, if i recall correctly, trees were the unique offering of Yavanna, where all the world was grasses and shrubs before he made the trees. So if Tom remembers the first raindrops and acorns, and preceded the Valar into Arda, i think the “spirit of the Great Music” idea makes the best sense
This was such a beautiful video Geek Tom Bombadil is honestly one of my most favorite characters in the Legendarium Not only because that he is a Pacifist but also because he is so vague and is an enigma He is IMO the embodiment of the vagueness Tolkien uses in his world I love all of thoses popular theories of who Tom is though some I found to be quite far fetched (especially the one that suggests that he is the physical embodiment of Eru himself) but thanks once again to your Einstein level of brilliance for theories and speculation and so on some of them can finally be put to rest I do very much love the theory of Tom being the embodiment of The Music of The Aniur and Arda too and I find it to be the most likely out of all of them but we will never truly know what or who Tom is and I honestly love that anyway loved this video and can't wait for the next one!!!!!! :)
Cheers Luke, as always it's always great to see you commenting, really admire your enthusiasm mate! :) It's always interesting seeing the theories that emerge about these sort of characters, it really helps keep the Lore and Story alive since there are still mysteries to unravel! :) Glad you enjoyed the video mate!
GeekZone Cheers to you to Geek! I agree its always interesting to hear theories about these characters it truly makes the lore and the story always alive and kicking and truly keeps the mysteries waiting to be unraveled!!! :)
Luke Skywalker the 2nd I'll say he is more of indifferent to everything that happens outside his little roalm then a Pacifist. That's also the reason as to why Gandalf, in the Council of Elrond, denied the possibility to give Sauron's Ring to him for safekeeping, because he would just put it somewhere and then forget about it. That kind of level of indifference are we talking about!
Hes completely irrelevant to the entire plot and adds nothing, except to show that there are beings more powerful than the forces at work who simply don't care. It would have made the movie go on for 40 minutes longer for no real reason or pay off
I don’t generally look for LOTR videos so it was a bit of a surprise to find your channel in my recommendations. After watching a couple I decided to see if you had anything about Bombadill. At first I was disappointed because there wasn’t anything on your homepage...but then...there it was in the recommendations! And it is better than anything I could have hoped for! Many thanks!
If you look at Ungoliant she wasn't listed as Valar or Maiar, perhaps Tom Bombadil was a good spirit from beyond the void who wasn't part of the creation of Iluvitar who was just looking for a nice place to relax for a few million years.
I always enjoyed the idea that Tom and goldberry were Father time and mother nature, or their counterparts within the legendarium. It just always intrigued me.
He was a Valar, he like Melkor left the group because he was bored of waiting and started to settle middle earth. Your theories are good! Your last theory is very intriguing.
Tom Bombadil is probably the most difficult character in all of Tolkien's creation to understand. I really like hearing your perspective. It would be interesting to have open discussions with people on this subject. Thanks for posting! 😋👍
I propose another theory. Tom and Goldberry. Husband and wife. They are very similar. No other thing is quite like them. Not even the Valar or the Maiar. But what would happen if 2 Valar had a child? Say... Aule and Yavanna? Would their son not have many similarities with Tom? And what if 2 Maiar had a child? Say... Osse and Uinen? The husband and wife Maiar pair that served Ulmo (the wifeless Valar of all water). Would their daughter not have many similarities with Goldberry? The Valar and the Maiar sang the world into existence. What if those 2 specific couples sang their respective children into existence during that first song?
That's creative, Ancient Skull Kid, but there's nothing in Tolkien's writing to support it. Also, for a long while, the Valar looked forward to the arrival of the Firstborn (elves) but wondered what they would look like. Aule made the dwarves in an attempt to "guess" at what the children of illuvatar might look like, and Eru scolded him. So I don't think there were really ideas of "people" in the minds of the Valar when they were singing Arda into existence. It was something completely new that Illuvatar prepared for a later time. That being said, it is curious that Bombadil was there before the first raindrop, so somehow his form was created long before the elves came. Bottom line, Tolkein didn't give us all the answers.
Tom wasn't just on the earth before the Elves; he preceded even the Valar. He says something along the lines of "the darkness when it was fearless." The darkness he's referring to is the time before the sun and moon rose, and it fearless because Melkor had not yet come and caused the night to be associeted with fear. I think GeekZone mentioned this in his video, but just in case he didn't I'd like to point out that this more or less rules out Tom being any sort of Ainur. Personally, I like Fenrir's theory (someone else who commented on this page) which is that the discord that Melkor produced resulted in the conscious embodiment of good and evil, which were Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant respectively.
I'd like to point out his wife being a daughter of the sea. As Earth and water coexist together on Earth. Also, his outfit being brownish and blue. Land and water.
My personal theory isn't that Bombadil is Illuvatar itself, but the Flame Imperishable that Illuvatar sent into the Void before them. All of the justifications for your favorite theory apply, but it provides more significance to Bombadil as a person, and it helps explain how the expansion of men specifically has forced him to retreat. When Illuvatar created men, he created them to be mortal, but with their mortal lives they would have the power to change the world in ways not foreshadowed by the Ainur. If Tom is the Flame imperishable, then he would of course step aside as men moved in and claimed the land around him in deference to their ability to change destiny. Also this would make Tom the thing that Melkor sought but could not obtain, because the light of Illuvatar could not be possessed, and was unable to be corrupted by Melkor's discord, because it gained power directly from Illuvatar. There are a number of little reasons I think my theory is true, mostly based on his seeming immunity to corruption, and his interest in both the Ents, and Gandalf (who was after all, was servant of the secret fire).
as the flame that makes tom a part of eru because the fire was part of eru and to send the fire he had to send a part of himself ... the uncorruptible pure part of the world
Very thorough breakdown of the most enigmatic character. I too have always wondered about Tom Bombadil. Sometimes I think Tolkien started telling a kind of campfire ghost story before his overall story coalesced into the Lord of the Rings.
Thanks for this video! Just did some further research, and found a passage that supports the theory of Tom being the song of creation. Frodo had two dreams while staying with him, "The second night he dreams of a song that 'seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise.'"
Here's a hypothesis- Tom's very power and presence along the strange power of the Withywindle caused Goldberry to come into existence and if his power strays too far from the power of the Withywindle, Goldberry will cease to be.
In The Adventures of Tom Bombadil Goldberry is one the many creatures in the beginning that try to "capture" Tom. Instead, he captures her and takes her to his domain. She seems to me similar to a nymph in classical mythology. The rivers were personified by gods and their daughters were nymphs. Since Goldberry is "the river's daughter" it seems to be a pretty open reference to nymphs.
hes the Eru Ilúvatar in human form with human desires. (To further analyze his creation and to have a better understanding).He isnt corrupted by the ring. He is immortal. Everyone around him "feels" his presence. Tolkien denied it to make it a mystery. Even the rocks and the trees moved out of his way. No one can make a straight path that bends to your very presence
However, other than Tolkien dispelling this view, do you think that Eru and the Valar who did everything possible to defeat Morgoth and then Sauron become uninterested in the One Ring of power and probably 'throw it away'? I highly doubt that.
According to occams razor, tom bombadil was a character tolkien created for a different story that he liked enough to ad lib into the lord of the rings story. Tolkien probably didnt develop a backstory for tom because it was his 1 lazy move
Tom Bombadil and Goldberry is Tolkien's interpretation of Adam and Eve had they never eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and only sustained themselves from the Tree of Life.
Would make sense why he is not effected by the ring too, as he was never exposed to corruption by eating from the tree. Also he appears to have dominion over nature and its beasts, just as Adam was meant to have
A great analysis of the facts. I agree with your conclusion, and that we were, perhaps, not meant to know who Tom is. It's a reflection of just how great of a writer Tolkien was, and how complex of a world he created. Pure genius.
"I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another." speaking of the quote above; tolkien is contrasting gandalfs moving around, with bombadils staying in one place. also, he is contrasting gandalf's dealings with the 'big picture' of events, with bombadils interest in the small doings of localised nature. obviously, they would have much to talk about and teach each other, exchanging the fleeting big events news, for the small scale but eternal 'news' of the natural world.
if tom was there before the valar and before the trees rivers etc. that means he must have been there within the music of the ainur. which was before any of the valar really conciously knew about their interests and the things they liked or cared for in the world. so he must have been from illuvatars original thematic ideas if im not mistaken. i dont think we really can or should explain him with the writings of tolkien hes meant to not make sense.
Isn't everything in in Middle Earth The Song of the Valar though? The Valar always knew that bad things were going to happen, because of Melkor's contributions to it. The part where Illuvatar makes a loud sound to restart the music is clearly the bending of the world after Melkor's most noisy disruption of the song.
He only has power over Wood, Water & Hill. He is not stronger than Sauron or Gandalf & he has border's for his power's. If he strays outside those border's than his power's greatly drop. The thing that is surprising about him is the strength of his purity, Sauron's Ring has no hold on him as Gandalf point's out. He has been overpowered by Old Man Willow. That's not to say that he's weak, but people just don't understand how his power's work. I wonder how he came about though, it seems like he is the oldest creature in existence within these Tales. Perhaps he was created by Eru before he created the Valar to bear witness to everything & as a good guide for the innocent when they get lost & need wisdom.
I like the thoughts you shared. Perhaps Eru created Tom before the others, without determining any need to tell them about him. :) And I agree with the notion of Tom's invulnerability rising from his complete lack of power lust. One thing that's bothersome, while reading your thoughts-- more than you might yet understand-- is your misuse of the apostrophe. When it's not being used as a contraction, (see "it is == it's: this one is the only exception to the rules, because it's the neuter pronoun _contraction_, and it's not showing the "it" as possessing whatever thing is spoken next,) it ends up showing possession-- as in "the book's text is very small." The apostrophe is definitely wrong for plurals, except if actual plural possession is the case: for example, "many borders, many powers, many things, many weaknesses." See how the two cases work, and how they're different? (They're = they are, for example.) It's more troublesome for more people than people imagine, before they learn the right way. This is because each time a wrongly apostrophized non-possessive plural is encountered by readers who've learned the proper two uses, and especially if a passage is rife with the error, it wastes a significant little bit of cumulative mental time, requiring about three separate unnecessary mental operations each time, small though they may be. It is as follows: the apostrophe ends up showing possession by the apostrophized object. The reader creates a mental place-holder for an anticipated possessed object: the one that would be possessed by the apostrophized word. If the reader sees the error immediately, they immediately destroy the mental place-holder. Then they mentally recast the word as plural, and then they must change the connections between that newly cast plural thing and the previous words, and those that are yet to be read. Sometimes the reader fails to see the error immediately, as indeed sometimes it isn't obvious, and in these cases they must nullify probably everything between the error and their current position in the text, when they do finally make the conclusion of error, and then go back to the point of the error and reread everything, reconstructing everything with the new understanding, as laid out above. In the very worst cases, usually when the error is confounded by countless others, for example by non-native speakers, the reader can sometimes even be confronted with a text that is practically impossible to decipher. These things illustrate an important truth about writing: the writing is only good to the degree that the writer, quite possibly by slaving over the words, succeeds in making them mean, (to the reader, who may be coming from countless different head-spaces,) exactly what the writer means, and nothing else, and nothing less. Great writing is indeed a high and difficult task, but the reward is unmatched. Through it, it is possible that we may be truly understood. :)
+Brantley- sorry, I was speaking to you, but I should have wrote your name at the start. I'm talking about where you typed "power`s" in three places, which should have been "powers", and "border`s" instead of "borders" twice, and "point`s", which should be "points". (Including the quantities in case you want to change them.) All of those words are plural, and not possessive. I hope this much shorter version helps! :P
I've been wondering about Bombadil ever since I first read the book 43 years ago. From what you say I think Tolkein would love that. You make the best case I have seen. Also regarding how he had withdrawn to the old forest. You make the point that middle earth had changed and been reshaped by the races. It is stated somewhere that the old forest was once part of a much larger forest that extended to Fangorn, so that seems to fit your theory.
He's probably a Maiar, just one more powerful than Gandalf, and went into the world before the Valar, as he was the one most drawn to it. And it's precisely this attraction to world that makes him invulnerable to the One Ring, his attraction was there before anything else, was mostly unchanged and now cannot be changed by any mean found in Middle Earth, even by Sauron's wicked way which can affect people like Gandalf and Galadriel. Even Aragorn was found to be pretty strong against the Ring's will, Tom is just so strong that he doesn't even feel it.
If you had no desires, the Ring wouldn't be able to manipulate someone so easily. And he just had it for a moment. If he didn't turn invisible, then he must be something like Sauron. Some form of Maiar spirit. Maybe he is a Blue Wizard and also was first in Middle Earth (as a scout for the Valar), making his statements true. He returned to the Valar, who later sent him as one of the 5 Wizards back to Middle-Earth. Okay, that's far fetched, but I like the idea that one of the Blue Wizards helped Frodo in some way.
I've viewed Tom as just a manifestation of the wild untouched wilderness. And yet... I also sense some kind of association of man before the fall in Genesis. Adam was after all (the first) a tiller of land and caretaker of the Garden of Eden. So in this scenario Tom is Adam had he never fallen. But realistically I think Tom is the parts of the Music of the Ainur that were never changed by Melkor. So, similar to what was discussed in the video.
They can't for now, cause the rights to the Silmarillion haven't been sold. However you've got the Amazon LOTR series to look forward to (or dread depending on your point of view)! :)
Lozz DiP Why Peter Jackson? He's not the only director in the world, and after the Hobbit, I honestly wish for new ideas and perspectives on Middle-earth.
true,but i can see chris tolkiens worries about franchising it off to others outside saul zenitz and new line, it is such a work of art it is easily butchered. i get your point on the hobbit movies though, some of it was brilliant other parts were as ridiculous as a childs bedtime story. which it was originally ; i think thats just advertising for a wider range of viewers, but the tauriel thing and this new political hollywood crap is ruining to the trilogy
God no!! No! No! No! First of all,the Silmarilion is way to complex and has a depth of history and legends, that no movie,no matter how lengthy she may be, can ever be done right! And secondly, those Mofos (!) are going to "gender" and " diversified" it to the point that's no longer recognisable!! So no!
I don't think so, from what I've seen it doesn't sound like something that can translate to film well. I'm sure Peter Jackson could do a damn good job of it but things like this don't translate over to film well and I've seen many fans of the books down and fucken cry about the movies when he really did an amazing job considering how damn tough something like TLotR is to make into a successful film.
There are many theories on Tom but they're all wrong actually. Tom was put in because he was already invented years before. He was in a story in Oxford Magazine in the early 30s (33?). Tolkien did say in one of the letters that he wasn't even really needed except for one point to do with the way the Ring didn't affect him (because he was his own Master and so the Ring had no power over him because he had no desire for anything of it). So no he wasn't one of the Valar. Nor was he Tolkien nor was he Eru as some of the theories have suggested. Your theory on him being of the music is a great one. I find it quite nice. Sadly if we take Tolkien at his word and remove all assumptions it to would be incorrect.
I agree. Tolkien didn't really specify that people were wearing pants in LotR. For all we know they were all nudists; perhaps Donald Ducking it around Middle Earth with shirts and no pants.
Came here wanting to watch a video on Tom Bombadil, Left wanting to immediately go play about 7 different video games due to your awesome music selection!
Hey Geek,nice video as usual! But as Tolkien him self wrote, it is a good thing, that something's remain a mystery! For me Tom is just that. Tom Bombadil! A anomaly in the Matrix so to say and not a bad one at that! 😉
It's like Billy Bob Thornton dating Angelina Jolie or Lyle Lovett married to Julia Roberts. Or maybe Tom put a spell on her, which is why she seemed in a trance most of the time.
You make great videos - you know the material so well. Regarding what you said near the end, about Bombadil's realm being limited, there's a moment in LOTR when someone (Treebeard maybe?) says that the Old Forest used to extend all the way to Fangorn. That also speaks to the quote about TB representing the character of the disappearing English countryside
Tom was a being of way more power then the Valar, as when Gandalf died after fighting the Balrog it was Tom who brought him back to life, something that even the Valar couldn't do. That leaves only two possibility's, he was either Iluvitar or the embodiment of the music of the Ainur, and sense Tolkien said point blank he is not Iluvitar, then that only leaves the embodiment of the music of the Ainur. This is the best Theory and a great video.
Hi. I really enjoyed watching this and all your other videos. Despite Tolkien insisting that Tom Bombadil is not the embodiment of Eru/God, I still think that is the case. In any good story there must always be a character with an element of mystery, that we never really know exactly what/who that character is. Similar to God, we only know about Him what He decides what to reveal about Himself and He sends His phyiscal embodiment. Of course, Tolkien didn't portray Tom as a Jesus type figure, that would both give the game away and lead to a boring story since most of his readers would be familiar with. Instead, the suffering of the deliverer is portrayed by Frodo, resurrection to a glorified body by Gandalf and the second coming (or Parousia) by Aragon at the end of time (or according to the lore, the end of the third age).
"Despite Tolkien insisting that Tom Bombadil is not the embodiment of Eru/God, I still think that is the case." Well, you'd be wrong then, since Tolkien is the one who created this entire mythos. That's like saying, "Despite Sir Arthur Conan Doyle saying Sherlock Holmes is a private detective, I think he's really a banker."
Hm, I agree with almost anything you said, but I dont think he was the embodyment of the music of the ainur, because it was tainted by melkor, and tom isnt. Maybe hes the embodyment of what it should have been? (well without eru iluvatars works, if we consider him not only withdrawing from the evil, but also from the elves and mankind)
You are correct. the Music was eventually tainted by Melkor. Maybe Tom was created before the music was tainted?? I don't know but all this sure is fun to speculate upon!!! You have a very valid point for sure.
Yes, the music was corrupted as a symphony, but weren't the individual voices pure? The world is a manifestation of the music, so all things would've been corrupted if this argument was correct.
I love that his origin isn't concrete. We've lost this in our culture of prequels and sequels. Mystery is what makes us think and keeps us awake at night, lost in thought.
who is bombadail??? the greatest troll of middle earth "ohh a powerful ring, you have there little hobbit, well i don't care trolololololol i dance and sing through the woods." (not a real qute from a book) but i really like him he is just this more or less over powerd "god"-like charakter, but instead of interfering with all the other living beings, he just enjoys his life, and is kind dude. (but it would be funny to see what he did if he had joined either side)
The thing is, his ability to not being affected by the Ring at all is directly linked to his personality and him not taking any sides whatsoever. The Ring works by tempting people with visions of grandeur, based on their inner desires to change things. But if you already are happy with the world as it is, and have no desire to interfere in such ways, the Ring can't use anything. If Bombadil cared enough to destroy the Ring, he would be vulnerable to its power. You could say Bombadil doesn't exist for the Ring, and the Ring doesn't exist for Bombadil.
Excellent way of putting it! This idea was mirrored in the temptation-vision of Sam Gamgee... striding across Mordor with grass and flowers sprouting up in his wake. It was all the ring could do with him, and it was immediately ridiculous to Sam. All he wanted was his own garden by his own hand, so there was no empire there, no vanity. He was beyond the delusion of grandeur.
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Finally made this video! It's probably been the most requested video I've had up till now, so I hope it reaches your expectations! I'll be trying to make at least a video weekly if not two (was supposed to start last week but this video was quite a long arduous project). As always thanks for all your support, you are all truly amazing and I hope to keep you entertained for years to come! :)
GeekZone Amazing
Cheers mate!
your a great youtuber and plz do one on beasts like fell beasts, carogors, graugs etc
I'd like to cover beasts in the future, though I'll be sticking to the canon ones for now :)
canon beasts or canon characters, also can you do some stuff on orcs, you are the best youtuber
I like the idea that Bombadil is a manifestation of the world that wants to just enjoy itself.
Aren't we?
I believe that Tom Bombadil was the Master that Ilu Iluvitar used to create all of the other races of Middle Earth. Not that he was a ruler over them, but the form used that became the blueprint of the other races, ie. the Humanoid form. If you notice in movies, that we do not use real Elves, Dwarves, Vulcans, or Klingons, but in fact those are Humans. Think of Tom Bombadil as the original generation of that concept.
Is there any book ,which Tolkein was unable to finish the story in his lifetime??
Baalei Taavah? Masters of their appetites? Really? Is that a desireable goal for humankind?
This theory has a huge flaw : it was shown time and again that the rings have a power over the land of arda . Also the land itself would not be uncaring for the fate of the land , it's own fate .
Concerning the music of creation it was flawed by nature as melkor has wished it when he decided to sing up when they created it under the guide of Eru and we don't see that aspect in Bombadil.
I think the simplest , but probably the most frustating , answer is the right one here . He just is ! He is something outside the Ainulindalë . He can interact with the world and the world can interact with him but it hold no power over him therefore the one ring , one of the ring of power, has no hold or interest for him . What he is and how he came to be here is something that we can't understand with the prism of the setting itself.
His entire character feel like a representation of somebody that was dear to tolkien maybe a fellow soldier that died .
I think Robin Williams would have played a perfect Bombadil if he were included in the trilogy.
Look up Brian Blessed. You might change your mind.
NotSnarl But he was Very much NOT dead and in fact still in his prime at the time of the planning and filming of the movies from 1997 through 2002(3?).
Still I have to agree that Brian Blessed would have been a far better pick. He can sing and though he is well known for his bombast, when he puts his mind to it - or is flat out told to by a director - he can do a very gentle and modulated performance. Plus he is VERY English and if I recall correctly is yet another fan of Tolkien like Christopher Lee(RIP).
I was think Zack Galinifigakis? (SP) and Amanda Seigrfried
Rowan Atkinson?
jhwheuer: too tall and not hairy enough
'And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).'
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 144, dated 1954
Tom Bombadil was a poem write before LoTR and the Hobbit. He was made by Tolkien before the others. Hence he was around longer than the others.
you mean "RIGHT before 'LoTR' and The Hobbit" ("write" means to compose words, as in a story or song, poem, etc.)
Know Name yes that’s what I meant. Not sure why my phone corrected it to that?
Makes sense in our world. But in the world of arda it doesnt. Because you know they are written and they 'dont know' if you catch my meaning. It makes sense if tom is indeed iluvitar. Since the valar and maiar live in valinor, why wouldnt iluvitar join arda as well?
This is probably the best discussion I have seen on the mystery of Tom Bombadil, and how he fits into the Tolkien universe. As you correctly stated, Tolkien was intentionally vague and nondescript about Bombadil’s place in his own creation, which is so unusual given how carefully he described every other aspect of it. The simple answer is that Bombadil is an aberration that Tolkien introduced into the LOTR story from one of his other stories, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, which is completely unrelated to the stories about Middle Earth. This is why Bombadil doesn’t seem to really fit because he was never meant to be part of this story. He is merely a cameo from a different story.
But since Bombadil does appear in the story of Middle Earth, and in deed, plays an important part in the Lord of the Rings, we are forced to place him somewhere and I think your placement of him being a personification of nature, which was created by the Music of the Ainur, is the best, most plausible answer.
Cheers Martin! I agree with you that even though Bombadil is meant to remain an engima, it's still interesting to find a way to fit him and his background in the story!
Greetings Karl and Martin! First off Karl I greatly appreciate all your videos and the content of your Channel, you have greatly helped me better understand and enjoy Middle Earth/Arda and Tolkien’s Work! I agree with both you and Martin in regards to Tom Bombadil.
I wanted to add my thoughts. Some of the other comments concerning Bombadil describe him as being a spirit that chose to remain neutral and fell somewhere between a Valar and a Maiar. I think that’s plausible seeing as to how even Gandalf seemed to want to spend time with Bombadil even though he himself was a Maiar. Also we know that Gandalf was a Maiar specifically tied to Nienna, and while I understand that Radaghast the Brown was the Maiar supposedly chosen by Yavanna, we also do not know if another could have chosen to leave or be sent to Middle earth by Yavanna before even the Maiar were sent. I think even if Bombadil was in fact an such a spirit that chose to remain Neutral, just like his Wife Goldberry, they each seemed to lean towards a specific Valar despite their Neutrality. As you said in your video about Radaghast, that he in the beginning had a clear mission but fell by the wayside due to his distraction and absolute love and adoration for the care and involvement in the natural world. Since as you say Bombadil was the physical manifestation of Arda, then almost by default that would make him Neutral, even despite his seemingly close ties to Yavanna.
Martin Mill
I actually believe that Tom is an Eldritch being similar to Ungoliant in status - though he is not evil like her. If he was truly part of the Song I don't believe he would refer to either Melkor or the Valar as coming from "outside". I think he is an independent being that predated the Song of Eru Illuvatar and is a being of nature the same way way Ungoliant was a being of darkness.
This is what I thought, too. That he was a being from outside, first attracted to Arda as the music was forming it and he entered it, just to enjoy the experience of living in it, not wishing to dominate anything or feed off of it.
I think you got it fairly right. From another perspective, the one wherein Tolkien declares him a deliberate mystery, Bombadil is the kind of character you would find in folk tales, which inspired Tolkien, and precedes his development of High Fantasy as a new 20th century genre. In the folk tales, things are often mysterious and marvelous without any explanation of those things being found; they just are and we will never know how or why or where they originated. Tom is of that sort, and I like him best as captured in Bilbo's collection of Shire poems.
he took all this info from an analysis on the net which i have read. blatant rip off and i bet he hasn't even read the books, let alone gone through the material.
Wouldnt Bombadil and Rhadagast be best bros?
Honestly, even despite his appearance in 'The Hobbit,' Radagast is really no more than mentioned by name. The book tells us absolutely nothing about what he was really like... So even going by what he was like in the movie, there isn't really a base reference on his character so we can only go by the movie's *assumption* of what he was like.
@@onebehindthehair5472 Actually he sends the Eagle to bring messages to Gandalf at Isengard, figuring all was well; and so the Eagle was going to land at Isengard with the message.
But Gandalf had his staff; so when he saw the Eagle coming, he was able to signal it to come onto the roof of Orthanc and carry him off, after telling the Eagle he was a prisoner there.
Fortunately it was night, so the Eagle didn't get shot.
.
Radagast was more a bird-man than a tree-hugger like Tom.
Bombadil is the oldest and the fatherless only Gandalf and Tom can really understand each others
Radagast was probably too erratic for tom’s liking.
I think he's something completely alien to ALL the beings of Middle Earth. He seems to be a fragment or remnant of the first song that somehow remained untainted before Melkor altered it, and that, somehow, this remnant of the song became sentient and chose an avatar.. Tom never said that he always had his present form (I think that's right). He seems out of place in that entire world but, at the same time, a limited aspect of it. If he is a living avatar of the first song, and therefore, perhaps a purity of Arda before Melkor's altering, it does make sense that he sings a lot and that his speech is very sing song, probably to represent how alien he is and that he is of the first song itself. He probably has power somewhere between a Maia and and Valar, if I had to guess on a whim.
I think that all beings in Middle Earth are aliens to him since he was the first one.
That is my interpretation as well; Tom is the manifestation of the first song [and hence Arda] before disharmony appeared [and hence before beings with true free will appeared]. Did Eru realise all along that without conflict there is no growth and without sin there is no redemption and hence that Tom was very quickly going to be 'lost' in a world full of beings that can consciously choose to sin? His existence was inevitable but also so was his disconnection with every conscious being, be it a Valar or a Hobbit.
Thank you very much for this video. I am a Professor of Philosophy in a university, and was able to read at an extremely early age. In the 2cd Grade, I read the Hobbit, and I read all three books of the trilogy in the 3rd Grade. To verify that I was actually reading these books, my teachers asked me questions about the books that one could only know if they had been read! I'm 70 years old, now, and have read all of the books 17 times, and the Silmarillion at least 3 times (although it's not an easy read).
I've subscribed to your channel, and I appreciate the effort that went into this one.
Amazing video! I love that even Tolkien himself humbly locked himself out on purpose, as the author, in deciding what Tom Bombadil is. He intentionally made him an enigma, and I feel when he went out of this way to say he is not Eru Iluvatar, he did so knowing he is both right, and also wrong. Tom Bombadil is beyond canon, and even the author himself cannot say what his canon story is, by design. Tom is every single one of the theories in your Video. Or none. Or all of them. The fact that Tolkien wrote him as being above his own opinion as the freaking AUTHOR just shows how amazing a writer he was, as every story needs true enigma that is everything or nothing that you want it to be. Almost like god. So in a way, Tolkien actually wrote a true omnipotent, Above All God character, whether he meant to or not, and despite saying he is NOT that.
Goldberry put it best:
“He Is.”
I agree with this :D
I don't think enigma necessarily implies total agnosticism or all possibilities on the table. At least some of the theories were fairly convincingly refuted in the video.
Tom is the answer to the question “why are we here”
I see Bombadil similar to our mythology (finnish mythology) charecter called Väinämöinen, and i think they are related, since Tolkien was fond of our mythology.
Basicly, there was first only water and world gave birth to Väinämäiöinen, who first just floated in the water, years and years, finally bird landed to his knee, then after while, bird made nest to his knee, but after while he felt nest making his knee hot, so he moved it. The nest felt down to water, and birds eggs felt to the water and when they broke, it made the world (lol, i know its sounds ridiculous), but its also told that he was helping to shape the world.
So i think Bombadil and Väinämöinen where first beings of their worlds, who helped to shape them. Like they were part of their worlds, i think this might have inspired Tolkien about charesterics of Bombadil.
Also other good note is, that Väinämöinen was also a great wizard/Sage/Wiseman, and how he made his spells to work, he sang. What is also one of Bombadils powers, like Bombadil sang to Old Oak, Väinämöinen also sang a guy to swamp, he made earth become bog, so they guy sank in it.
I think Bombadil was made when middle earth was shaped, who helped to make world, as a father of the nature, who takes care of the natural balance, to see that everything was like it was meant to be.
Its just a theory, but i wanted to share with you all, since not many people know about finnish mythology/folklore, but i know its a fact that Tolkien was fan of it, i just wanted to bring something more to this great video!
The story about this guy Väinämöinen is called Kalevala, if you are intrested, read more modern version, since the older version are pretty tough, even for people like me, and its our native language, it was first writed like very old fashioned poetry.
Wow fantastic! I was a fan of the theory made by the narrator of the video as it made good sense. I still had my own personal questions though. This theory melds perfectly with his and is supported by real world facts of Tolken and his intrest on Finnish folklore. It fills the pockets and questions I had and overall is a great thought! Thank you!
Really interesting take I hadn't heard before. Thank you!
I had a cooked idea something like this. You have it spot on.
This works for me.
Otherwise, I see Tom as a Buddhist in a Christian Universe, seeking the middle road .
I prefer your theory as I imagine Tolkien did. :)
This sounds right to me. I always thought there must have been some helper to mind the middle earth while is was being made. Flowers needing watered and things along that line.
You forgot about the theory where Tom Bombadil is actually Bob Ross....
Tom Sabor that's more of a fact than a theory
Just a happy little accident.
Oh Yess Tom Sabor! Because both of them are Brian Blessed!!!
happy trees
Bob Ross lol that's funny and Bob Ross rocks!!!! I'm surprised PBS doesn't show his re runs
"Take off your golden ring.....Your hand's more fair without it."
@Yes Sir! Yo Tommy B doesn't try.
@Yes Sir! nah that would be more ' can I insert my finger into your ring please?'
I wonder if you could do one on Goldberry? I've always found her to be really fascinating.
Love the Elders Scroll Skyrim background music. Goes well with the story telling...nicely done..)))
I believe Tom Bombadil is something equivalent to Ungoliant, a primordial being who hails from outside the influence of The Valar
I agree, he was there whilst melkor corrupted the land and yet tom was perfectly fine and came out unharmed, if he was the song he would have had melkors discord within him which doesn't fit tom as this pure personification of passive joy
Kind of. I reckon that just as Ungoliant was an incarnation of Void and Darkness, so Bombadil is an avatar of Arda itself, an embodiment of the life of the world. So from inside, rather than outside.
Gotta be.
True, but I like the theory of him being the earth himself too
Ungoliant was a Maia, a female Maia, wich is under the Valar, but it was corrupted by Morgoth.
In reference to Bombadil, Tolkien himself said that some things should remain mysterious in any narrative, "especially if an explanation actually exists".
Tolkien explained it all in the origin story in which the song of the spirits Iluvatar created sang in the void. They sang the creation of Middle Earth but only some of the spirits went down into the Earth. By doing so they bound themselves there. Many of the greatest and lesser of them remained with Iluvatar.
After ages went by they were joined by others who chose to bind themselves to the world. One of them joined the Valar in order to battle Melkor. Others who remain unconnected to the Valar and the Maiar of Middle Earth like Ungoliant retained their independence from both sides of the conflict. They retained their nature and lived as to their original qualities but were not considered part of either the Maiar who turned to Melkor or the Maiar who remained with Manwe. They were independent and some were greater like the Valar and some were lesser like the Maiar.
All the Valar and all the Maiar were connected to nature in some specific way. They lived to keep the harmony of nature in balance. When the Council of Elrond is asked if Bombadil could be given the ring it took a Maiar to identify Bombadil and his nature without actually saying out loud who he is. Tolkien said "The ring has no power over him". Meaning the full force of the power poured into the one ring was not enough to overcome Tom even though it was enough to over throw all the Maiar it encountered like Saruman the White or the second greatest elf of Middle Earth Galadriel. He went on to say that Tom could withstand until the end but the overthrow of the world was within Saurons power and at the end even Bombadil would fall. The final thing that says it would be someone greater than a Maiar was when he said Tom would not understand why the ring was of any importance. He would lose it or place it somewhere and forget it. This would be the act of a Vala who was unconnected with the living beings of the world. One of the creators whose sole significance was focused on the world being shaped and tended to was both his and Goldberry. She was clearly referred to as the "River daughter" That identifies her precisely as the one who brings rain to the world from manwes air and delivers it to the world to support all life forming streams that then connect her to her Vala. Tom was more powerful than she but this was of no concern to either of them.
The reason I go through all of this obvious stuff is to make the point that the ones who were called Valar and Maiar were specific to the descent into Middle Earth with intent to organize and run the world. This was not everyone by a long shot. The Ainur remained undefined as Valar or Maiar until they determined to participate in a side. Neither Tom nor Goldberry made that decision.
They are Ainur of varying power. Tom could stand against Sauron a Maiar because he was greater but he was Ainur and by retaining that innocence he saw no point in the conflict.
stematfis M this is the best interpretation of Tom Bombadil I have ever found! Thank you for sharing it with us!
I agree: an Ainur of a different order.
Love this very idea as much as him being the nature itself and the life giving rivers his wife.
@Min Medrevil I gotta hand it to you, you know your LOTR lore... And you're even bigger an LOTR geek than I am, which is saying a lot as I am well-versed myself in the lore of Middle Earth.
Tactical Nuke Delivered;)
My own theory is that Tom Bombadil is the good side of Melkor, before he grew jealous and twisted, Melkor was the strongest of the Valar and so could'nt be destroyed, I believe they shattered his essence at the breaking of the world in the war with Morgoth and the Valar (like Sauron at the fall of Numenor who survived and lingered in Mirkwood) and banished his evil side to the abyss, which left his good side = Tom Bombadil, Goldberry is a Maiar who watches over him. this would explain why there is no presence of Tom Bombadil during the coming of the Elves/Dwarves and later the first Men
Tom Bombadil is proof of the power of the beard. He is the Chuck Norris of Middle Earth.
Well they both have same coloured beard.... 🤷♂️🤔🤔
I like the fact that Gandalf visitet tom at the end of the lord of the rings
Gandalf visited him often, he just didn't stay long.
Now Gandalf finally had about 2 years before he left Middle Earth forever, so he wanted to have a nice long visit with Tom; he never got the chance before, and never would after.
.
@Yes Sir! If I'm correct that would not be cannon sir , Gandalf is like 1000 years old he stopped thinking about sex years ago .
Can you imagine the chats 🤦🏼♀️🤗
Eru ilúvatar enters chat.
Tom Bombadil enters chat.
Eru ilúvatar: "Sup Bombi"
Tom Bombadil: "Hey hoo"
Eru ilúvatar: "So Bombadil I have this idea.."
Tom Bombadil "Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!"
Eru ilúvatar: "yeah yeah..well anyway I have this idea, You see I got my bitches singing back at my crib"
Tom Bombadil: "derry dol!"
Eru ilúvatar: "And then I thought ..Hey would't it be cool if I made their song real, Like real real y'know?"
Tom Bombadil: "Hey! Come derry dol!"
Eru ilúvatar: "Suuure..anyway Then I thought hey old Tom-B got this giant piece of floating rock in the void, Why don't I just ask him use his useless rock for this?"
Tom Bombadil: "ring a dong dillo!"
Eru ilúvatar: "Great it's a deal then, Now I'm really gonna fuck up your land but I promise to leave the whole thing round when I'm done, I'm sure you don't mind"
Eru ilúvatar has left the chat.
Tom Bombadil: "Hey now! merry dol! We'll be waiting for you?"
How did this not get more likes? 👍
Awesome
Small mistake: Arda wasn't always round.
Lmao
So Tom is really “The Dude”.
Tom abides.
Impossible. There's no Creedence in Middle Earth.
@@SpaceCattttt
There's no Kahlua either, but Tom simply manifests white russians out of sheer willpower.
Tom hates The Eagles? Big news lore wise.
Wait the “The Dude” from The big Lebowski?
I'll do you one better... WHY was Tom Bombadil?
i'll do you one best... when was tom bombadil?
haKurei kura I’ll do you one bestest best... where was Tom Bombadil?
Tom is a metaphore for the knowledge of good and evil. After frodo and the others leave the Shire (Paradise) they suddenly find themselves having to contend against the dangers of the world of men. Tom provides the hobbits with the right knowledge to survive their trip through his lands. His wife is the representation of nature unbound, the true wild if you would. Bombadil through his knowledge of the world manages to tame and marry her, his knowledge is kind by design as he could have chosen to dominate the land and twist it to suit himself, instead he does what allows him to coexist with nature as a human man.
Essentially the whole adventure through bombadil's lands serves to teach the hobbits who have only ever known the peace and safety of the Shire how to survive once they leave it behind
Tom Bombadil made the best pickles. 🥒
J T he was da BOMB!
You have presented a fascinating study of a very obscure character. Very well done!
I just see him as existing outside the fate of Arda. That's it. An outsider. A transient spirit that came from elsewhere and because of that sees and knows more and less than anyone else. Not a nature spirit or any of the Valar or even the creator. This is why the Ring has no effect on him, and not much else does either, like the passing of the ages. He's literally not all there, not just figuratively. This is why it's a great argument that he is somewhat a representation of the author. But just one aspect. The idea of wanting to visit or live in a magical world like Middle Earth but not being able to or even actually willing to give up what you already have. But in spirit, at least partially, you are there. And so you get Tom Bombadil. I think a lot of people are convinced the author is also put into the story with Beren who had to try to steal the Silmarils from Morgoth's crown to prove his love for Luthien.
This also ties into my favorite bible quote: "“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
If anyone embodies this quote, in the way I understand it, it is Tolkien. He created his own spiritual treasures that not just him, but everyone now treasures.
The new testament seems pretty clear that success in this world negatively affects rewards in the next.
We all need spiritual mystery. I am satisfied that he is who he is, and that is something mysterious which fills me with hope and joy. Nicely done piece. Are you a Tolkien Society member?
I just had a wild epiphany as to the true identities of Tom & Goldberry.
Check out this theory:
Since the Ents and the trees in Fangorn could move and communicate, it would be logical to assume they had eternal souls or spirits. When Ents die, do their souls go to middle earth heaven, where Iluvatar resides?
Just remember, Gandalf was sent back by Iluvatar, (as a greater more powerful wizard,) to finish his task, after he fought the Balrog to the death. Maybe Iluvatar sent back Telperion and Laurelin, after being murdered by Melkor and Ungoliant. Maybe their souls went back to Eru Iluvatar and he resurrected them as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, since their tasks were complete. After all, Tom was the *"Master of Water, Wood & Hill."*
"Eat Earth, dig deep, drink water..."
Earth is the hill, digging deep with roots is the wood, drinking water speaks for itself...😯
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Trees_of_Valinor#Creation_and_destruction
www.henneth-annun.net/events_view.cfm?evid=1598
Your thoughts...
One of your best videos! I'm impressed by your thorough research
Thanks Polymath, I appreciate it! :)
I really appreciate the time and care you have taken to do these videos. Thank you.
I live the fact that you use an Elder Scrolls Skyrim musical score for your videos 🙂
I know this is a delayed comment on this video but I have finally gotten around to watching your videos (my absolute favorite Tolkien lore channel). Tom seems to me to be a physical representation of the songs when the world was created. He would then be nothing like the creatures we understand in the Tolkien lore. I love this character and I love seeing interpretations of what he could be. He is a very pure/raw form of what middle earth is. Keep up the amazing videos!
The best part of Lord of The Rings is from they leave the shire until they reach the town of Bree. Its a trip out of common fantasy and into mythological space.
I always thought he was a maiar. With the Dark Lord referring to Sauron instead of Melkor and Middle-Earth instead of Arda. But, with Tom already being here before the arrival of the Ainur?
Now I’m thinking that he represents the spirit of the Earth itself, with Goldberry representing mother nature, the Gaia.
Good stuff!
Love the Skyrim music, very intertwinable universes
its dragon age origins
Cherry Trader
There may well be both, however I distinctly heard the Skyrim soundtrack.
I thought I recognized this soundtrack! Just finished that game a few months ago.
skyrim or dragon age?
Cherry Trader DA:O
"waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them" I believe this could be referring to the prophecy of Melkor. I don't have the quote on me, but basically the prophecy is; Melkor will break the doors of death and return to Middle-earth to plumage it into darkness. Mabye Tom is waiting for this to happen, and that's why he has basically stayed out of the conflicts of the world to insure that he is there when the prophecy happens. Tolkien wrote so much history into his books, but what ive found is there is 2 major things without much history. Tom & The prophecy. Now Tolkien did write a bit about the prophecy, but not a lot... kinda like he wrote about Tom a bit, but not a lot. He was there before Melkor, maybe he needs to be there after Melkor returns for the last time. Idk maybe im just dumb or something, but its kinda cool to think about (: So sad Tolkien passed away before writing a bit more on these subjects, forever shall we wonder.
I think that Tim bombadil is a being outside of the valar's creation similar to ungoliant.
ian long father time
I have to agree, my personal belief is that Tom, like Ungoliant, were created during the second or third song of the Valar in Arda's creation myth.
Oh my god....UNGOLIANT WAS A FEMALE MAIA corrupted by the darkness
Andrei Valentin cite your sources, she hailed from the void and darkness, and when she devoured the two trees and the jewels, even melkor was afraid of her, he’s afraid of a simple Maia? Unlikely, tho I could be wrong
@@jesusloverazariah you are correct. She definitely was NOT one of the ainur. Tolkien leaves her origin fuzzy because he wanted mystery in his world just like there is mystery in ours.
I don't closely follow the lord of the rings series, but your video made me really like this character. :) His whimsical smile and dress, and his personality and outlook, and his mysterious nature all make him feel very lovable to me.
Tom Bombadil has become my favorite character of the stories.
When reading that as a teenager it set me at ease I loved his mindset at the time lol.
Interesting points as well: Rain came about because Melkor introduce intense heat and cold into the Great Music, and Illuvatar revealed that water would accept heat and cooperate with the wind to make clouds and rain, which would forever echo the Great Music (like the Sea does), and so Manwe and Ulmo would always be allies. Further, if i recall correctly, trees were the unique offering of Yavanna, where all the world was grasses and shrubs before he made the trees. So if Tom remembers the first raindrops and acorns, and preceded the Valar into Arda, i think the “spirit of the Great Music” idea makes the best sense
This was such a beautiful video Geek Tom Bombadil is honestly one of my most favorite characters in the Legendarium Not only because that he is a Pacifist but also because he is so vague and is an enigma He is IMO the embodiment of the vagueness Tolkien uses in his world I love all of thoses popular theories of who Tom is though some I found to be quite far fetched (especially the one that suggests that he is the physical embodiment of Eru himself) but thanks once again to your Einstein level of brilliance for theories and speculation and so on some of them can finally be put to rest I do very much love the theory of Tom being the embodiment of The Music of The Aniur and Arda too and I find it to be the most likely out of all of them but we will never truly know what or who Tom is and I honestly love that anyway loved this video and can't wait for the next one!!!!!! :)
Cheers Luke, as always it's always great to see you commenting, really admire your enthusiasm mate! :) It's always interesting seeing the theories that emerge about these sort of characters, it really helps keep the Lore and Story alive since there are still mysteries to unravel! :) Glad you enjoyed the video mate!
GeekZone Cheers to you to Geek! I agree its always interesting to hear theories about these characters it truly makes the lore and the story always alive and kicking and truly keeps the mysteries waiting to be unraveled!!! :)
Luke Skywalker the 2nd I'll say he is more of indifferent to everything that happens outside his little roalm then a Pacifist. That's also the reason as to why Gandalf, in the Council of Elrond, denied the possibility to give Sauron's Ring to him for safekeeping, because he would just put it somewhere and then forget about it. That kind of level of indifference are we talking about!
Luke Skywalker the 2nd lol nice comment! I agree with everything, and he’s one of my favorite characters too, for the same reasons you listed.
str81100 Yeah you have a point! :)
I absolutely love that you chose Skyrim as your background music. I sleep to night time ambience, tundra, and rain on loop every single night.
That’s fucking awesome lol
@@treebeard8475RUclips channel: Everness
Most intriguing-the videos are so interesting and enjoyable
Cheers Randyll! :)
Thank you for making and sharing these Tolkien related videos. Wonderful stuff!
I always wondered why Tom Bombadil was not in the films. I loved the story of him and Goldberry.
Hes irrelevant
Hes completely irrelevant to the entire plot and adds nothing, except to show that there are beings more powerful than the forces at work who simply don't care. It would have made the movie go on for 40 minutes longer for no real reason or pay off
I don’t generally look for LOTR videos so it was a bit of a surprise to find your channel in my recommendations. After watching a couple I decided to see if you had anything about Bombadill. At first I was disappointed because there wasn’t anything on your homepage...but then...there it was in the recommendations! And it is better than anything I could have hoped for! Many thanks!
If you look at Ungoliant she wasn't listed as Valar or Maiar, perhaps Tom Bombadil was a good spirit from beyond the void who wasn't part of the creation of Iluvitar who was just looking for a nice place to relax for a few million years.
Love the use of music from Skyrim. It makes the video very calming to watch along with the great commentary.
Great video as always! Looking forward to the next!
Cheers, glad you enjoyed it! :)
Your arguments were put together very well . This is my fav video you have done, and It is not saying little.
I always enjoyed the idea that Tom and goldberry were Father time and mother nature, or their counterparts within the legendarium. It just always intrigued me.
He was a Valar, he like Melkor left the group because he was bored of waiting and started to settle middle earth. Your theories are good! Your last theory is very intriguing.
Tom Bombadil just is. He's a nature spirit, of the area where he is located, and no other explanation is needed. Genius loci embodied.
Tom Bombadil is probably the most difficult character in all of Tolkien's creation to understand. I really like hearing your perspective. It would be interesting to have open discussions with people on this subject.
Thanks for posting! 😋👍
I propose another theory.
Tom and Goldberry.
Husband and wife.
They are very similar.
No other thing is quite like them.
Not even the Valar or the Maiar.
But what would happen if 2 Valar had a child?
Say... Aule and Yavanna?
Would their son not have many similarities with Tom?
And what if 2 Maiar had a child?
Say... Osse and Uinen?
The husband and wife Maiar pair that served Ulmo (the wifeless Valar of all water).
Would their daughter not have many similarities with Goldberry?
The Valar and the Maiar sang the world into existence.
What if those 2 specific couples sang their respective children into existence during that first song?
And what if a baby bumble bee crawled up my bung hole and stung my colon from the inside? No one knows.
Harambe Nights deep
That's creative, Ancient Skull Kid, but there's nothing in Tolkien's writing to support it. Also, for a long while, the Valar looked forward to the arrival of the Firstborn (elves) but wondered what they would look like. Aule made the dwarves in an attempt to "guess" at what the children of illuvatar might look like, and Eru scolded him. So I don't think there were really ideas of "people" in the minds of the Valar when they were singing Arda into existence. It was something completely new that Illuvatar prepared for a later time. That being said, it is curious that Bombadil was there before the first raindrop, so somehow his form was created long before the elves came. Bottom line, Tolkein didn't give us all the answers.
Tom wasn't just on the earth before the Elves; he preceded even the Valar. He says something along the lines of "the darkness when it was fearless." The darkness he's referring to is the time before the sun and moon rose, and it fearless because Melkor had not yet come and caused the night to be associeted with fear. I think GeekZone mentioned this in his video, but just in case he didn't I'd like to point out that this more or less rules out Tom being any sort of Ainur. Personally, I like Fenrir's theory (someone else who commented on this page) which is that the discord that Melkor produced resulted in the conscious embodiment of good and evil, which were Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant respectively.
Geek was on fire in this video! Very perceptive. So many good points.
I'd like to point out his wife being a daughter of the sea. As Earth and water coexist together on Earth.
Also, his outfit being brownish and blue. Land and water.
An excellent essay! Great summary of theories and fascinating quotes. Thank you for sharing!
My personal theory isn't that Bombadil is Illuvatar itself, but the Flame Imperishable that Illuvatar sent into the Void before them. All of the justifications for your favorite theory apply, but it provides more significance to Bombadil as a person, and it helps explain how the expansion of men specifically has forced him to retreat. When Illuvatar created men, he created them to be mortal, but with their mortal lives they would have the power to change the world in ways not foreshadowed by the Ainur. If Tom is the Flame imperishable, then he would of course step aside as men moved in and claimed the land around him in deference to their ability to change destiny.
Also this would make Tom the thing that Melkor sought but could not obtain, because the light of Illuvatar could not be possessed, and was unable to be corrupted by Melkor's discord, because it gained power directly from Illuvatar. There are a number of little reasons I think my theory is true, mostly based on his seeming immunity to corruption, and his interest in both the Ents, and Gandalf (who was after all, was servant of the secret fire).
Pluveus Well put. That's been my theory for quite some time, too.
as the flame that makes tom a part of eru because the fire was part of eru and to send the fire he had to send a part of himself ... the uncorruptible pure part of the world
Best theory thus far
Very thorough breakdown of the most enigmatic character. I too have always wondered about Tom Bombadil. Sometimes I think Tolkien started telling a kind of campfire ghost story before his overall story coalesced into the Lord of the Rings.
As we get more civilized I think we need more mysteries like Tom.
Thanks for this video! Just did some further research, and found a passage that supports the theory of Tom being the song of creation. Frodo had two dreams while staying with him, "The second night he dreams of a song that 'seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise.'"
Here's a hypothesis- Tom's very power and presence along the strange power of the Withywindle caused Goldberry to come into existence and if his power strays too far from the power of the Withywindle, Goldberry will cease to be.
In The Adventures of Tom Bombadil Goldberry is one the many creatures in the beginning that try to "capture" Tom. Instead, he captures her and takes her to his domain. She seems to me similar to a nymph in classical mythology. The rivers were personified by gods and their daughters were nymphs. Since Goldberry is "the river's daughter" it seems to be a pretty open reference to nymphs.
hes the Eru Ilúvatar in human form with human desires. (To further analyze his creation and to have a better understanding).He isnt corrupted by the ring. He is immortal. Everyone around him "feels" his presence. Tolkien denied it to make it a mystery. Even the rocks and the trees moved out of his way. No one can make a straight path that bends to your very presence
However, other than Tolkien dispelling this view, do you think that Eru and the Valar who did everything possible to defeat Morgoth and then Sauron become uninterested in the One Ring of power and probably 'throw it away'? I highly doubt that.
According to occams razor, tom bombadil was a character tolkien created for a different story that he liked enough to ad lib into the lord of the rings story. Tolkien probably didnt develop a backstory for tom because it was his 1 lazy move
Tom Bombadil and Goldberry is Tolkien's interpretation of Adam and Eve had they never eaten from the Tree of Knowledge and only sustained themselves from the Tree of Life.
Which makes sense with Tom being one of many Jesus-like characters in Tolkien's writings.
Would make sense why he is not effected by the ring too, as he was never exposed to corruption by eating from the tree. Also he appears to have dominion over nature and its beasts, just as Adam was meant to have
Interesting theory but adam was created and tom has no father. He just was
A great analysis of the facts. I agree with your conclusion, and that we were, perhaps, not meant to know who Tom is. It's a reflection of just how great of a writer Tolkien was, and how complex of a world he created. Pure genius.
"Who was Tom Bombadil?"-----Just some random bloke.
"I am going to have a long talk with Bombadil: such a talk as I have not had in all my time. He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling. But my rolling days are ending, and now we shall have much to say to one another."
speaking of the quote above; tolkien is contrasting gandalfs moving around, with bombadils staying in one place. also, he is contrasting gandalf's dealings with the 'big picture' of events, with bombadils interest in the small doings of localised nature. obviously, they would have much to talk about and teach each other, exchanging the fleeting big events news, for the small scale but eternal 'news' of the natural world.
if tom was there before the valar and before the trees rivers etc. that means he must have been there within the music of the ainur. which was before any of the valar really conciously knew about their interests and the things they liked or cared for in the world. so he must have been from illuvatars original thematic ideas if im not mistaken. i dont think we really can or should explain him with the writings of tolkien hes meant to not make sense.
Isn't everything in in Middle Earth The Song of the Valar though? The Valar always knew that bad things were going to happen, because of Melkor's contributions to it. The part where Illuvatar makes a loud sound to restart the music is clearly the bending of the world after Melkor's most noisy disruption of the song.
He only has power over Wood, Water & Hill.
He is not stronger than Sauron or Gandalf & he has border's for his power's.
If he strays outside those border's than his power's greatly drop.
The thing that is surprising about him is the strength of his purity, Sauron's Ring has no hold on him as Gandalf point's out.
He has been overpowered by Old Man Willow.
That's not to say that he's weak, but people just don't understand how his power's work.
I wonder how he came about though, it seems like he is the oldest creature in existence within these Tales.
Perhaps he was created by Eru before he created the Valar to bear witness to everything & as a good guide for the innocent when they get lost & need wisdom.
I like the thoughts you shared. Perhaps Eru created Tom before the others, without determining any need to tell them about him. :)
And I agree with the notion of Tom's invulnerability rising from his complete lack of power lust.
One thing that's bothersome, while reading your thoughts-- more than you might yet understand-- is your misuse of the apostrophe. When it's not being used as a contraction, (see "it is == it's: this one is the only exception to the rules, because it's the neuter pronoun _contraction_, and it's not showing the "it" as possessing whatever thing is spoken next,) it ends up showing possession-- as in "the book's text is very small." The apostrophe is definitely wrong for plurals, except if actual plural possession is the case: for example, "many borders, many powers, many things, many weaknesses." See how the two cases work, and how they're different? (They're = they are, for example.)
It's more troublesome for more people than people imagine, before they learn the right way. This is because each time a wrongly apostrophized non-possessive plural is encountered by readers who've learned the proper two uses, and especially if a passage is rife with the error, it wastes a significant little bit of cumulative mental time, requiring about three separate unnecessary mental operations each time, small though they may be. It is as follows: the apostrophe ends up showing possession by the apostrophized object. The reader creates a mental place-holder for an anticipated possessed object: the one that would be possessed by the apostrophized word. If the reader sees the error immediately, they immediately destroy the mental place-holder. Then they mentally recast the word as plural, and then they must change the connections between that newly cast plural thing and the previous words, and those that are yet to be read. Sometimes the reader fails to see the error immediately, as indeed sometimes it isn't obvious, and in these cases they must nullify probably everything between the error and their current position in the text, when they do finally make the conclusion of error, and then go back to the point of the error and reread everything, reconstructing everything with the new understanding, as laid out above. In the very worst cases, usually when the error is confounded by countless others, for example by non-native speakers, the reader can sometimes even be confronted with a text that is practically impossible to decipher.
These things illustrate an important truth about writing: the writing is only good to the degree that the writer, quite possibly by slaving over the words, succeeds in making them mean, (to the reader, who may be coming from countless different head-spaces,) exactly what the writer means, and nothing else, and nothing less. Great writing is indeed a high and difficult task, but the reward is unmatched. Through it, it is possible that we may be truly understood. :)
Jacob Kline
Can I ask who you are responding to?
I haven't used the words you're specifying so just checking to be sure.
+Brantley- sorry, I was speaking to you, but I should have wrote your name at the start. I'm talking about where you typed "power`s" in three places, which should have been "powers", and "border`s" instead of "borders" twice, and "point`s", which should be "points". (Including the quantities in case you want to change them.) All of those words are plural, and not possessive. I hope this much shorter version helps! :P
I've been wondering about Bombadil ever since I first read the book 43 years ago. From what you say I think Tolkein would love that. You make the best case I have seen. Also regarding how he had withdrawn to the old forest. You make the point that middle earth had changed and been reshaped by the races. It is stated somewhere that the old forest was once part of a much larger forest that extended to Fangorn, so that seems to fit your theory.
Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow!
Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!
He was obviously smoking the same stuff as Radagast ..
I totally agree with you. It's great that someone has made such and interesting and cogent review!
Love the lotro cuts, makes it more lively :)
Thanks , I do try and add some clips whenever I can! :)
He's probably a Maiar, just one more powerful than Gandalf, and went into the world before the Valar, as he was the one most drawn to it. And it's precisely this attraction to world that makes him invulnerable to the One Ring, his attraction was there before anything else, was mostly unchanged and now cannot be changed by any mean found in Middle Earth, even by Sauron's wicked way which can affect people like Gandalf and Galadriel. Even Aragorn was found to be pretty strong against the Ring's will, Tom is just so strong that he doesn't even feel it.
If you had no desires, the Ring wouldn't be able to manipulate someone so easily. And he just had it for a moment. If he didn't turn invisible, then he must be something like Sauron. Some form of Maiar spirit. Maybe he is a Blue Wizard and also was first in Middle Earth (as a scout for the Valar), making his statements true. He returned to the Valar, who later sent him as one of the 5 Wizards back to Middle-Earth. Okay, that's far fetched, but I like the idea that one of the Blue Wizards helped Frodo in some way.
An old hippie from Berkeley who got lost when he took a left at Albuquerque?
I've viewed Tom as just a manifestation of the wild untouched wilderness. And yet... I also sense some kind of association of man before the fall in Genesis. Adam was after all (the first) a tiller of land and caretaker of the Garden of Eden. So in this scenario Tom is Adam had he never fallen.
But realistically I think Tom is the parts of the Music of the Ainur that were never changed by Melkor. So, similar to what was discussed in the video.
I so wish peter jackson would make the silmarillion or the tale of Beren and Luthien at least...
They can't for now, cause the rights to the Silmarillion haven't been sold. However you've got the Amazon LOTR series to look forward to (or dread depending on your point of view)! :)
Lozz DiP Why Peter Jackson? He's not the only director in the world, and after the Hobbit, I honestly wish for new ideas and perspectives on Middle-earth.
true,but i can see chris tolkiens worries about franchising it off to others outside saul zenitz and new line, it is such a work of art it is easily butchered. i get your point on the hobbit movies though, some of it was brilliant other parts were as ridiculous as a childs bedtime story. which it was originally ; i think thats just advertising for a wider range of viewers, but the tauriel thing and this new political hollywood crap is ruining to the trilogy
God no!! No! No! No! First of all,the Silmarilion is way to complex and has a depth of history and legends, that no movie,no matter how lengthy she may be, can ever be done right! And secondly, those Mofos (!) are going to "gender" and " diversified" it to the point that's no longer recognisable!! So no!
I don't think so, from what I've seen it doesn't sound like something that can translate to film well. I'm sure Peter Jackson could do a damn good job of it but things like this don't translate over to film well and I've seen many fans of the books down and fucken cry about the movies when he really did an amazing job considering how damn tough something like TLotR is to make into a successful film.
There are many theories on Tom but they're all wrong actually. Tom was put in because he was already invented years before. He was in a story in Oxford Magazine in the early 30s (33?). Tolkien did say in one of the letters that he wasn't even really needed except for one point to do with the way the Ring didn't affect him (because he was his own Master and so the Ring had no power over him because he had no desire for anything of it). So no he wasn't one of the Valar. Nor was he Tolkien nor was he Eru as some of the theories have suggested. Your theory on him being of the music is a great one. I find it quite nice. Sadly if we take Tolkien at his word and remove all assumptions it to would be incorrect.
Not who I thought. My understanding was that he started the first Hobbit nudist camp.
what books have you been reading?
One of the cannon books called, "While your there around my back again; Touching a hobbits 'tail."
haha
I agree. Tolkien didn't really specify that people were wearing pants in LotR. For all we know they were all nudists; perhaps Donald Ducking it around Middle Earth with shirts and no pants.
: D
Came here wanting to watch a video on Tom Bombadil,
Left wanting to immediately go play about 7 different video games due to your awesome music selection!
Hey Geek,nice video as usual! But as Tolkien him self wrote, it is a good thing, that something's remain a mystery! For me Tom is just that. Tom Bombadil! A anomaly in the Matrix so to say and not a bad one at that! 😉
Thanks buddy! And I agree; I feel mysteries help keep a story alive! :)
Yes. Tom is Tom.
Wow cool video, you covered all the angles! Thanks!
Bilbo Baggins dating Kate Upton. Now there's something interesting to consider.
It's like Billy Bob Thornton dating Angelina Jolie or Lyle Lovett married to Julia Roberts. Or maybe Tom put a spell on her, which is why she seemed in a trance most of the time.
You make great videos - you know the material so well. Regarding what you said near the end, about Bombadil's realm being limited, there's a moment in LOTR when someone (Treebeard maybe?) says that the Old Forest used to extend all the way to Fangorn. That also speaks to the quote about TB representing the character of the disappearing English countryside
I have the theory he could be something completly unnamed, maybe something like a brother of Illuvatar who just watches what he is doing
Idiot
@@Panda-dw1he didnt ask for your name.
I am in awesome of excellently you laid out this discussion. Will definitely subscribe!!
Nice vid love skyrim music 👍👍
Thanks Rob!
Tom was a being of way more power then the Valar, as when Gandalf died after fighting the Balrog it was Tom who brought him back to life, something that even the Valar couldn't do. That leaves only two possibility's, he was either Iluvitar or the embodiment of the music of the Ainur, and sense Tolkien said point blank he is not Iluvitar, then that only leaves the embodiment of the music of the Ainur. This is the best Theory and a great video.
Ive heard a theory that he was actually Ronnie Pickering.
Who?!
A real life enigma! The man, the myth, the legend!
Wow... This was so incredible. Thank you for making this.
Hi. I really enjoyed watching this and all your other videos.
Despite Tolkien insisting that Tom Bombadil is not the embodiment of Eru/God, I still think that is the case. In any good story there must always be a character with an element of mystery, that we never really know exactly what/who that character is. Similar to God, we only know about Him what He decides what to reveal about Himself and He sends His phyiscal embodiment. Of course, Tolkien didn't portray Tom as a Jesus type figure, that would both give the game away and lead to a boring story since most of his readers would be familiar with. Instead, the suffering of the deliverer is portrayed by Frodo, resurrection to a glorified body by Gandalf and the second coming (or Parousia) by Aragon at the end of time (or according to the lore, the end of the third age).
Well realistically part of the fun is picking a belief that resonates best with you and building upon it so I respect that :)
I think this is an interesting and excellent concept...Thank you for your thoughts regarding Tom being the embodiment of God/Eru.
"Despite Tolkien insisting that Tom Bombadil is not the embodiment of Eru/God, I still think that is the case." Well, you'd be wrong then, since Tolkien is the one who created this entire mythos. That's like saying, "Despite Sir Arthur Conan Doyle saying Sherlock Holmes is a private detective, I think he's really a banker."
I love how you have the Skyrim background music! Tremendous!
Hm, I agree with almost anything you said, but I dont think he was the embodyment of the music of the ainur, because it was tainted by melkor, and tom isnt.
Maybe hes the embodyment of what it should have been?
(well without eru iluvatars works, if we consider him not only withdrawing from the evil, but also from the elves and mankind)
I believe he was sort of the blueprint of the initial pure plan
Yea thats more like it I guess :)
Anyways great video!
Cheers mate!
You are correct. the Music was eventually tainted by Melkor. Maybe Tom was created before the music was tainted?? I don't know but all this sure is fun to speculate upon!!! You have a very valid point for sure.
Yes, the music was corrupted as a symphony, but weren't the individual voices pure?
The world is a manifestation of the music, so all things would've been corrupted if this argument was correct.
I love that his origin isn't concrete. We've lost this in our culture of prequels and sequels. Mystery is what makes us think and keeps us awake at night, lost in thought.
who is bombadail???
the greatest troll of middle earth "ohh a powerful ring, you have there little hobbit, well i don't care trolololololol i dance and sing through the woods." (not a real qute from a book)
but i really like him he is just this more or less over powerd "god"-like charakter, but instead of interfering with all the other living beings, he just enjoys his life, and is kind dude. (but it would be funny to see what he did if he had joined either side)
The thing is, his ability to not being affected by the Ring at all is directly linked to his personality and him not taking any sides whatsoever. The Ring works by tempting people with visions of grandeur, based on their inner desires to change things. But if you already are happy with the world as it is, and have no desire to interfere in such ways, the Ring can't use anything. If Bombadil cared enough to destroy the Ring, he would be vulnerable to its power. You could say Bombadil doesn't exist for the Ring, and the Ring doesn't exist for Bombadil.
Excellent way of putting it! This idea was mirrored in the temptation-vision of Sam Gamgee... striding across Mordor with grass and flowers sprouting up in his wake. It was all the ring could do with him, and it was immediately ridiculous to Sam. All he wanted was his own garden by his own hand, so there was no empire there, no vanity. He was beyond the delusion of grandeur.
Truly great analysis! I think you got very close to the point!
Is that dragon age music in the background
Yep, you have a keen ear!
GeekZone haha thanks! One of my top favourite games couldn’t resist asking 😂
This is a fantastic video. What a gem. Thank you!