It's been a few weeks since my last video, have been really busy due to some life issues though we should be back on track now! :) Hopefully we'll be having one or two videos a week, got some pretty awesome ones planned! Hope you enjoy the video, as always I'd love to hear your feedback it really means a lot to me! Thanks for all the support friends! :)
GeekZone could you please do a video on how long Elves are children for in Middle Earth, or maybe very briefly touch on this topic in your next Elf related video? Thanks for the content by the way. New subscriber and really enjoy the channel.
I like how all the other races have famous weapons wielded by famous warriors that can do unbelievable things, and now the hobbits also have 1 sting which I would imagine would be come of the most famous weapons
I had a dream once that I was a immortal god being with super strength like superman, super speed and flight, could heal anything and anyone with a touch make things come alive with a touch , turn anything or anyone to any creature I wanted and could shoot solar beams out of my hands etc and brought enlightenment and prosperity to middle earth after sauron died, I tamed Shelob by beating her up and the people of Gondor had a huge supply of spider silk to make elaborate fine clothes, dresses, shirts, pants , hats and rope and tapestries and it's spider silk it made their clothes bullet proof basically being safer if attacked and made gondor more wealthy and went to moria to help clear out the orcs for the dwarves to recolonize it and Killed the watcher lake monster at moria and brought it to gondor and people had a big feast eating lots of sushi that night and boy did they feast and for some reason they teriyaki, orange and Wassabi sauces but I couldn't eat it 🤢, so i asked them to just cook me a whole beef cow filling a table full of beef etc with a pile of melted cheese, ale and pipe weed and we celebrated lol 😎😂😂
As to the fate of Shelob: As Tolkien was so fond of parallels...perhaps Shelob did recover, but remained in her lair, slowly starving until, like her mother, she ate herself is desperation.
Actually, in the book She was starving because Sauron was destroing the Life that lived there, now that Sauron has been destroyed, many Life forms Will return to mordor, She Will be able to feast again...
@@princeofsomnia7664 Literally how our own bodies work. Our bodyfat is our reserves, once we're out of fat we start consuming muscles which eventually can lead to major injury or even death.
Reading the book many times, and listening to the audio book (while gaming, which means only like 50% absorption) many times, I feel like at some point Gollum is given his dues. I think he's supposed to be extremely clever, and hardy, in an evil sort of way. He's got a knack for not dying, even under the most deadly of circumstances. Not in a badass heroic way, but in a pathetic, roach like fashion. He's very old, wise with experience, cunning, and very cruel, able to live in spite of immense opposition.
Please don't ever apologize for being busy with your life! I adore your videos, the depth you go to explain everything, the maps and paintings and other random yet related pictures to illustrate the scence is simply fantastic and gets me hooked right away. I'd prefer to wait and get quality content than a sped up rushed video! Thank you for also mentioning Shadow of War.
Sauron: this is my pet spider shelob, she is perfect and I love her. She keeps annoying elves and humans out and eats all my prisoners and insubordinate minions.
Mate i have read every tolkien book there is, and your breakdowns and descriptions of the fauna and nature of Ea/Middle earth is Almost perfect, very good profiling of "the world that is" ARDA well done!
Gomez1915 there’s a lot of folk complaining about in these comments but it was a good scene. I remember the entire theater squirming when she was hunting Frodo from above
@Drake I had to deal with spiders when I was younger they don't really bother me anymore but I've seen people flip out over a small house spider in a movie, they get a bad rep they look scary and intimidating but most of them are very docile and timid, they're more afraid of us then we are of them.
i believe she either ate herself like her mother or was killed, a resurgent gondor under king aragorn would not tolerate such an evil to remain so near its borders
she was alive before sauron and did not need him. i doubt she would need him after the fall. Spiders are notorious for their ability to survive in almost any environment.
the underworld is a vast and dark place. she could have just retreated deeper and come out somewhere else, or never came back out. The deeps of the world hold many foul things that Morgoth twisted from creations of the other Valar. There are still all the other Balrogs down there somewhere, most of those things will never come to the surface, even to the end of the world.
@@indy_go_blue6048 Hans293 is mostly likely correct in identifying the now somewhat archaic usage employed by Tolkien here. It does make for a funnier line when one reads it being accustomed to modern usage.
I'm terrified of spiders, but I also have a curious sense of reverence toward them. I believe that she not only survived but made a full recovery, and later on fled, perhaps south along the mountains. She was ever more cautious because of the encounter with Sam, so she passed out of the knowledge of the world, nibbling on wildlife or stray travellers who brought back no news of this unknown terror. I think also that she's a neutral character, one whose only purpose is to be left alone and survive.
People act like Sam greatly hurt Shelob or something but he really didn't he gave her a very shallow wound. Shelob just gave up because it wasn't worth the trouble for two tiny morsels and retreated too wait for an orc or something to come by that wouldn't be too much trouble.
I had a dream once that I was a immortal god being with super strength like superman, super speed and flight, could heal anything and anyone with a touch make things come alive with a touch , turn anything or anyone to any creature I wanted and could shoot solar beams out of my hands etc and brought enlightenment and prosperity to middle earth after sauron died, I tamed Shelob by beating her up and the people of Gondor had a huge supply of spider silk to make elaborate fine clothes, dresses, shirts, pants , hats and rope and tapestries and it's spider silk it made their clothes bullet proof basically being safer if attacked and made gondor more wealthy and went to moria to help clear out the orcs for the dwarves to recolonize it and Killed the watcher lake monster at moria and brought it to gondor and people had a big feast eating lots of sushi that night and boy did they feast and for some reason they teriyaki, orange and Wassabi sauces but I couldn't eat it 🤢, so i asked them to just cook me a whole beef cow filling a table full of beef etc with a pile of melted cheese, ale and pipe weed and we celebrated lol 😎😂😂
What is it about Elven weapons in Middle-Earth that makes them capable of harming near god-like entities? Is it because Elves were the closest to the Ainer, given their long history with them?
I believe that could play a part, that perhaps their craftsmanship was superior since some of them had learnt from the Ainur themselves. However I also believe that natural Elven wisdom and skill plays a part!
i think it is twofold. first they were magical and skilled enough through training and divinity that they could infuse part of their will into objects, and second they also had superior metallurgy so that even un-infused items would be far superior to ones made by men or even dwarves.
I would also consider dwarven weapons such as Anduril and Angrist, the works of Telchar of Nogrod. The shattered shard of Anduril was used to cut the one ring from Sauron' s hand, presumably through his (enchanted?) Armour. Angrist cut a Silmaril from Morgoths crown, again a feat a mundane weapon wouldn't succeed in doing (alluded to in the Silamarillion). The fathers of the dwarves were taught by Aule as were some of the Noldor!
I'm quoting from the top of my head but the Silarillion says that "from the beginning the dwarves had wondrous skill with crafting and in the tempering of steel they were unmatched"
While not canon, Shelob's portrayal (or rather lack thereof) in the Lord of the Rings Online is very interesting. Despite the story in the game having reached the point where the Ring is destroyed and Sauron is defeated, we still haven't actually seen Shelob herself, though we do get to see her Point of View when Gollum runs ahead to visit her just before Sam and Frodo come along. We also see one of her spider minions run into her lair for safety, only to come running back out fleeing from her wrath, until Shelob webs it and drags it back into her lair. Her spiders have very nearly completely taken over Cirith Ungol by now and both the Men of Gondor and the remnants of Sauron's lieutenants alike are getting very concerned that Shelob and her brood might decide to invade the rest of Mordor and perhaps even Gondor itself. The game seems to be hinting and teasing that we'll get to face Shelob eventually but not for now. It will be very intriguing to see what the developers decide to do with her. Keep up the great work! - A fellow Malteser :)
@@PressA2Die Yes, it happend :) The most recent expansion is called "Minas Morgul" which was released couple of weeks ago. Shelob is indeed a Raid Boss now ;) lotro.com/en/minasithil/
They totally screwed Shallob up in the movies in my opinion. I loved how Sam and Frodo realised they were walking into their deaths in the book, but that they still chose to go for the good of middle-earth. Instead we get this weird Frodo and Sam break up in the movie.
7:40 Bilbo could only hear them whisper but he didnt understand them only after he put on the ring he heard them speak clearly i dont think that would be possible without the ring same goes for gollum and shelob
After freeing Fili we're told: He had taken off his ring when he rescued Fili and forgotten to put it on again, so now they all began to splutter and hiss: "Now we see you, you nasty little creature! We will eat you and leave your bones and skin hanging on a tree" I always took this to be from Bilbo's point of view, which would indicate that he could still hear them without the ring
Perhaps the ring grants you the ability not to understand but to rapidly learn the languages of other races. It would certainly make it easier to conquer them. Also Bilbo didn't immediately lose the life-long giving abilities of the One Ring when he gave it Frodo, maybe the language ability stays with you for a time as well.
@@GeekZoneMT Exactly. The spiders could speak and nothing indicates that they spoke a different language. That said, while most of what occurs in The Hobbit is supposed to be a recollection on Bilbo's part - implying he himself knew these things - there are a lot of parts wherein Tolkien is telling us things that Bilbo is oblivious or ignorant to, like the difference between Goblins and Orcs, for example, or how the party was in a valley when Bilbo climbed the tree and didn't know how close they were to the edge of Mirkwood (nor that they would have been lost in nigh-unpassable swamps had they known and continued). So, there is always the off-chance that Bilbo didn't know what they were saying without the Ring, but the book implies that they just spoke and anyone could understand. I mean, Morgul speech was a thing, but in The Hobbit, at least, just about every evil thing spoke English (or whatever language they speak in Middle-Earth - the tongues of Men) either to or in the presence of Bilbo and he understood. The trolls, the goblins, the spiders, etc. - Bilbo understood them all.
What I believe is that perhaps Gollum, having become so Dark an entity himself, may have (unwittingly) become fluent in the languages of the Dark Places of the World. His 2500-year-long possession of the Ring may have made him so finely attuned to the Shadow that he was, by the time of his release from Barad-Dûr, akin to it.
Gollum was infected by the Ring over a long period of time and maybe that "infection" allowed him to talk with Shelob. Or maybe it's the reason she didn't find him appealing (to eat). Or both.
I've seen the Return of the King at least 5 or 6 times in my life. I know a great deal about spiders and other animals. And I still never thought about how Shelob has a stinger.
She absolutely survived. I will not accept that her terrible reign over Cirith Ungol ends from a few mere stab wounds and a blinding light. If it were so easy, she would have died long ago. For my 9th birthday (back in 1985) I asked for a dungeons & dragons module. In their ignorance, my parents bought me *Shelob's Lair* from the Middle Earth Role Playing Game ("MERP"). It wasn't D&D, but was instead from the wrong system. Despite that I read it ... and absolutely fell in love with the mystery and lore of Shelob, in all her ancient evil. The powers assigned to her were all kinds of mind and sensory base magics, to control feelings, read minds, craft false sounds, rob the senses. She had dozens perhaps hundreds of "spiderlings" which ranged in size from a medium sized dog to a horse. Cirith Ungol was a splendid playground of horror and despair; perfect for gloomy adventures. Since reading about Shelob, I've had a hint of bias toward spider-like monsters... like Atlach Nacha, the dark weaver of all days' end. They've been devouring life long since before the first primates ever existed, so they are indeed ancient. Spiders seem alien compared to Humans, and the way they look and operate is so strange; waiting, patiently, silently, for something to come, so it can be quickly and tenderly wrapped up, put to death, digested, and then sucked up like an oozing flesh smoothy. The bizarre, grotesque, and somehow elegant ways of the spider can spark the imagination for all kinds of horrors. Great stuff. LINK: vdocuments.mx/merp-the-tower-of-cirith-ungol-and-shelobs-lair.html
One thing I've always been fascinated of her is that her more comes from the void, right? - So we don't know what exactly Shelob is (Other then, her spider looks) - where if compare it to the Balrog is "dark/evil" maja spirit of Melkor :)
GeekZone - I think J.R.R Tolkien wanted to create the mystery of the Void by many other things to catch our interests even more. - But must say this is on of the things, that makes Middle-Earth so big of a world, that we can know the truth about anything :)
Shelob is my favourite creature in the Lord Of The Rings universe. I seemingly just stumbled upon this, much like a victim of Shelob's 🕷 I really found this so interesting; thanks for the video! 😊
In the Game Shadow of War, I don't think she's exactly Shape-Shifting, as she is projecting the side of her she got from her Mother being an entity from Beyond the World. Her "Human" form in the Game only really appears to those who have a direct connection other plains of being, like the Wraith World. It may even be that Gollum's intense connection to the One Ring allowed him to see Shelob's other side, and that's how she was able to commune with him and gain his worship... Just a Thought...
Nothing remotely "Human" about Shelob. Semi-intelligent , hunger -consumed beast. That's the book version or true version all that other nonsense was made up for a video game.
I have always imagined she had a human head since they describe her having horns and a neck. Idk I think it makes a more terrifying image and it also explains her being able to talk to Gollum
I know this video is two years old at the time I write this. And I realize in recent years LOTR may have somewhat 'fallen' to the wayside to make way for other fantasies such as GoT and others, but man LOTR Lore is just unrivaled. I'm a huge fan and I love these videos I'm learning even more about Tolkien's universe through your videos. Awesome work mate 👍
I have never read any hint at Shelob having an alternative, human form. It seems more like an invention of the game, possibly having had Lolth in mind.
She was never described as an actual spider but spider like. So I guess that means she could shapeshift??? Idk, all I know having a hot goth lady tell me to do shit is much better than fugly spider lady doing it.
@@lelouche25 the game was great and I love it, but this was frustrating for me. I would have loved to have had Shelob made more mysterious. I feel like making her "human" was a bit of get out
@@lelouche25 I'm inclined to think that she couldn't shapeshift, but rather could morph in appearance over time, slowly changing to match her corrupt spirit
Excellent summary of the backstory of one the most terrifying monsters in the LOTR. The only thing that I disagreed with is the possibility of Shelob being some kind of shape shifter. There is no evidence for this in the actual books and it is made quite clear that, though she may have been some type of hybrid form of spider, she was in fact the biological offspring of Ungoliant and the spiders of Ered Gorgoroth that she mated with. She does seem to have inherited the immortality of her mother Ungoliant, who was herself probably one of the Maia who, like the balrogs, were corrupted by Melkor in the beginning of Arda. But there is no mention of Shelob having any other type of supernatural powers.
The deadlights, and the fact that "It" is a primordial being from the Void who chose to take on the form of a spider... SK is famous for starting his idea process by asking: "What if..." so its possible that his original idea for It was "What if Ungoliant was living under Derry?"
I had a dream once that I was a immortal god being with super strength like superman, super speed and flight, could heal anything and anyone with a touch make things come alive with a touch , turn anything or anyone to any creature I wanted and could shoot solar beams out of my hands etc and brought enlightenment and prosperity to middle earth after sauron died, I tamed Shelob by beating her up and the people of Gondor had a huge supply of spider silk to make elaborate fine clothes, dresses, shirts, pants , hats and rope and tapestries and it's spider silk it made their clothes bullet proof basically being safer if attacked and made gondor more wealthy and went to moria to help clear out the orcs for the dwarves to recolonize it and Killed the watcher lake monster at moria and brought it to gondor and people had a big feast eating lots of sushi that night and boy did they feast and for some reason they teriyaki, orange and Wassabi sauces but I couldn't eat it 🤢, so i asked them to just cook me a whole beef cow filling a table full of beef etc with a pile of melted cheese, ale and pipe weed and we celebrated lol 😎😂😂
Dylan W Shadow of War and Shadow of Mordor are not canon They're actually breaking Tolkien's lore Good games, but you should see them as stand-alone universes
Arthur Cornelus I was just pointing that out considering that was a plot point. I know it's not care because talion would have beat the crap out of Aragorn
@@codymartinson9518 are you? We have dragons, giant spider and elephants, evil empires, a dark god waiting to return from the void, wraiths , flaming demons magic rings and giant armys of corrupted men and creatures. Yes, such beatuy we have.
Given the effect of the darkness on their minds, and as being a part of her, I wonder if her sting had lasting mental effects on Frodo at the end of the quest. If it made him weaker to resist the Ring. After it is destroyed, he talks about not being able to remember the Shire while Sam is trying to get him off the mountain, like all hope had been driven from him. If he hadn't been stung, or felt the effects of her darkness, would he have been strong enough to throw the Ring into the volcano?
I really enjoy your thorough and precise accounts of Middle Earth, with room for some personal interpretation. Also, your accent makes your videos stand out and more captivating (for me at least). Thanks for posting and keep up the good work.
Welcome back Geek!!! Its been a little while but I don't mind you take all the time you need to make your awesome videos and love this one btw I find Shelob to be a very creepy yet very interesting character/creature in the Legendarium and I wish we knew what exactly happens to her after she was scared off by Sam in Cirth Ungol but one of the things that makes Tolkiens works so great and enchanting is some parts of the Legendarium are very vague and forever remain up to theory and speculation anyway loved this video and can't wait for the next one :)
GeekZone Your welcome and I agree being vague does very much keep the subject alive and just bluntly giving the answers to everything does very much kill the magic sometimes anyway can't wait for the next video! :)
I like to believe she had some telepathic ability that allowed her to control how her victims perceived her. The power of the one ring amplified that allowing its bearer to become hyper sensitive of that ability. This is why Bilbo could hear her spider-lings speaking when wearing the ring in Mirkwood and why Gollum was able to hear her thoughts after being in possession of the one ring for so long. I think that's also why the creators of the game decided to have Talion see her in a different form. She would have been much stronger at this time due to the constant supply of food when The Black Gates and Minas Ithil were full of men. Fast forward to when Return of the King when she is starving from lack of orcs who know not to stray into the pass. Weak from hunger, Sam is able to best her with Sting blinding her with the Phial of Galadriel. I like to think that she meets her doom the same way her mother did. Being blind and powerless, unable to find her way or sustain herself further, succumbing to her hunger by devouring herself.
7:03 OMG I love this artwork! I really appreciate it if some artists come up with some new and creative designs instead of all those stereotypish depictions (also with balrogs, usually they just look like the first thing that would come to mind if someone said "firedemon")
yea makes me kinda sad when looking at the desings in the movies... shelob, the balrog, the fellbeasts, the watcher,... they could have really gone carzy with the designs, but theyre all so generic
Generic? Now yes, but before the trilogy movies? Have you seen any of the old artwork for LOTR? Balrogs often seemed to look like medieval devils (so red slightly fat dudes with tiny pointy horns) for one example. I think the movie versions are much more generic in retrospect, because the movies basically changed the face of the fantasy genre overnight.
Here's another possibility: The lands around Mordor basically went berserk and collapsed when the Ring was destroyed. It's entirely possible that in this event, Cirith Ungol was destroyed, and Shelob with it,
7:45 I'm sure Bilbo could only hear the spiders talking when he had the ring on. When he took it off, he would only here the normal giant spider sounds anybody else could hear.
Great video! I had never looked this deeply into Shelob, so this was very informative! :) I actually like the idea of her being able to assume a human form for just a short time: It makes sense because of her mother’s ability to assume the form she pleased. It makes sense that a being of the void who was able to choose a form, would be able to change it, if only for a short time. If anything it’s a tie in to her mother that makes her unique among the great spiders.
Shelob is probably My Favorite Antagonist, I remember my aunt telling me about her before I watched the 3rd LOTR film, and boy I wasn't disappointed, and after watching you're video about her, I never knew she was that old, 6500! Damn! She kinda reminds me of the Sin Gluttony, because she like her mother have an insatiable hunger, thanks for the Video man! And keep it up, my mind wouldn't be able to explain the vast world of Middle-Earth as good as you, so thanks for doing these videos.
At the very least, we know ungoliant had the ability to assume a form into the world, similar to ainur. Now, that being said, most ainur don’t have offspring for moral or unknown reasons. But ungoliant did, as did Melian. Luthien, born to Melian, was half elf and half Ainu. Luthien shapeshifted or flawlessly disguised herself and Beren into vampires and werewolves. Plus think about it, shelob is a pretty magical creature and even has that stinger. Anyways, I think the likely explanation is that they ripped the ability off from ungoliant and the ainur. But I hope my theory might provide some explanation
I never tire of your well researched and well thought out tellings of Middle Earth. Always your presentations are thought provoking and fascinating. Keep up the great work.
Great video! I do like the movies a lot, but I always found in this instance that Peter Jackson wasn’t quite able to get Shelob’s horror and ferocity on screen Tolkien of course was able to describe her terror perfectly. How it wasn’t just darkness per se, but a darkness that can confuse and numb the mind. I also loved how the phail’s light was able to cut through the darkness.
Dude. I have watched quite a few of your videos. I just want to say. You're awesome. I love Lord of the rings movies and have learned so much more about middle earth because of you. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
I never cared for Shelob as a character until shadow of war, her abilities to have foresight, shapeshifting and other magic made her a more powerful being. When she took a human form in the game, she not only appeared human in appearance but also in her personality, I find her a lovable character for those reasons. The book lore doesn't really appeal to me
LOL, according to the "Middle-earth Shadow of War" video game, Shelob was a beautiful elven woman who dated Sauron back when he was a beautiful elven woman. Shelob could change into a giant spider and Sauron could change into tall dark armor. I have no idea who wrote that particular lore for the game, but I think we can all agree that medicinal substances were involved.
But sauron did changed into a fair form. Apperantly he couldn't after the fall Numenor. But he could, though hes never described how he looks in the books. I assume he doesn't look "fair" anymore but he had four fingers on the black hand. Whatever that means.
Considering shelob is the daughter of Ungoliant, who is not much different from the Maiar (just the timing of her arrival is different) and who apparently chose to take the form of a spider, it is a possibility that Shelob has some shapeshifting abilities. if not, she might be able to influence people's minds to percieve her as something that she isn't. Like an illusion. And since we first see her in the game when she actively taps into the Ring's powers, that might be why she never does that in the book or movie.
True enough, I really hope this is a worthwhile series. I'm really amazed that the Tolkien estate (and Christopher Tolkien?) gave their permission for it. From what I've heard it'll cover the pre LOTR era supposedly, Maybe some of the Silmarillion? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
If it hadn't been for Spider-eye Joe, I'd have reached Mount Doom a long time ago. Where did she come from, where did she go? Where did she come from, Spider-eye Joe?
The great thing is that Sam isn’t the one to deal the finishing blow against Shelob. She does it herself. Sting couldn’t pierce her thick hide, even her underside, and the only reason he’s able to stab her is because she put all of her weight down in an attempt to crush him, not realizing he had the blade up. Sam is still an absolute legend for winning that fight though
I always liked to think fleeing orcs ran into her cave and she ate them like a feast and grew huge and healed well. then when she was strong enough to hunt again and disturb the forces of good she realized she had grown too huge. though she was strong, possibly more evil and stronger than she ever was, her gluttony was her undoing and she was trapped in the caves forever
A nice summary and drawing of parallels. Especially the point that Shelob had a form of her mother's Unlight, which I hadn't considered before. Gives me some ideas I might use in my roleplaying campaigns.
Another great video, I really appreciate your thoughtful and scholarly analysis of the masterpiece. Interestingly, the Shadow of Morder bit you mention reminds me of a fictional D&D diety, Lolth, the Demon Spider Queen who would alternate forms between a monstrous spider entity and an enticing dark woman. Though I also feel like the imagery of the spider and seductive woman are old archetypes. Off topic...any thoughts on the origins of Tolkien's sparsely mentioned Giants?
Youve just got one new sub from me! Thanks for all the hard work, this channel is very entertaining and informative - even for a long time reader of Tolkien like me. I really like the way you try to create a discourse and to analyse the symbolism and all hidden meaning in Tolkien's lore, as most people know that's why his lore is so incredibly special. Please make more vids! From one forever Tolkien's admirer to the other!
Cheers Martin and welcome to the fellowship! I'm glad you enjoy the videos! I've got a video on Tom Bombadil coming up soon, really happy with the way it turned out! :)
Geek, I have an idea for a future vid about angband & thangorodrim. I finished reading "Beren and Luthien" a few weeks ago, and in some of the older poems there are pretty detailed descriptions about the angband and morgoths hall that would perhaps be interesting for the audience :D (For example: the doors of angband may look similar to the iron throne from GoT: Its said to be covered with blades) And there are also a few questions i couldnt answer myself, like, how did thangorodrim look from outside? Was it just a bare mountain, or was it covered with fortresses? How close were the three piekes together, and how high were they? How would smoke behave thats emitted so high above the ground (I guess it would fall down bc the air there is thinner than the ash clouds) Just a few points that may help getting a clearer image of what these places looked like
GeekZone, this was a really good video, and very interesting. There were a couple of mistakes that I'll explain below, but they were just misunderstandings of the English involved. Overall, I really liked your video. You did a great job with the research and it makes me want to dig out my books and read them again. Have a great day! Thanks. 🙂 - People often refer to spider bites as "stings", so when she was trying to "sting" Sam, that just meant that she was trying to bite him with her fangs. - When Tolkein says she was "most like a spider", he was just being poetic. It's just a story-telling technique, a grandiose way of saying that she was a spider. (If he had said "mostly like a spider", then it would have meant what you thought in the video.) Saying she was "most like a spider" sounds better than saying "she was a spider", but it means the same thing.
I always like to think of the darkness of Ungoliant and Shelob as like the darkness of space (since they originate from the void). It’s not darkness as in the absence of light but darkness as in an oppressive emptiness that consumes and overpowers all. It’s also why it’s “otherworldly” and affects the mind and the senses. I think this is what Tolkien intended to convey, in particular by the theme of constant hunger and gluttony such that, ultimately, it consumes itself.
He is but just before killing one, he takes it off, and he still hears it scream "Stings! Stings!" before dying, hence Bilbo's naming of the blade Sting.
Really impressive. I just discovered your channel. No need to apologise for real life. It does need attention. What you presented here was wonderful, thoughtful and well researched. You made me think of the Void and Ungoliant. It could be once the Fire initiated, it, in and of itself allowed for essence to engender consciousness. The Song of the Valar could also have something to do with her coalescence into consciousness as creation could assist with uncreation and spontaneously called forth darkness out of the void. You really make me feel like wanting to reread my Tolkien books from a researcher’s stance, but alas, really life is quite demanding at the moment. Thank you again. I can’t wait to look at your other videos.
Cirith Ungol: ’cirith’ is pronounced ’kirith’ - not ’chirith’. Most place names in Middle Earth derive from the Sindarin language, which is based on Old Welsh, where ’c’ is always pronounced as ’k’.
Hey bro, it’s been some time since you have done a video, but it doesn’t bother me, you take all the time you want on making your videos, that’s why your videos are amazing. You take the time to make them perfectly and research as much as you could, keep the amazing work up. 👍🏻
I kinda feel sorry for shelob. After all shes just a big spider doing what any spider does, staying in its den waiting for prey. A Creatures got to eat. She doesnt seem to get involved in any other affairs. Just keeps herself to herself and picks up the scraps. She doesnt seem inherently evil. More just feared. It doesnt attack frodo for the ring, in fact it doesnt care about the ring at all its just hungry.
It's worth mentioning that 6500 isn't that exeptional by middle-earth standarts. There are a number of elves around in the time of LotR that are older (such as Galadriel, who is some 8000 years old), and the Ents are far more ancient than that, being older than the race of elves in general.
Daniel Inskip because he’s so big that the curve of the planet affects him and makes it feel like he’s always walking down hill from the equator. Which means they must be at or south of the equator.
Can we get an episode on Ungoliant in the future please? I understand it's probably a daunting task, as lore about her is hard to dig up, but I'm sure you could do it, your research skills are impeccable!
![The History of Sauron [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8IqAN1Of70k/mqdefault.jpg)
It's been a few weeks since my last video, have been really busy due to some life issues though we should be back on track now! :) Hopefully we'll be having one or two videos a week, got some pretty awesome ones planned! Hope you enjoy the video, as always I'd love to hear your feedback it really means a lot to me! Thanks for all the support friends! :)
GeekZone hey buddy, could you perhaps make a vid on olog-hai? I don't really understand what they are exactly
I'll add it to my list, it'll most likely be included in a video about trolls since they technically fall under that category :)
GeekZone could you please do a video on how long Elves are children for in Middle Earth, or maybe very briefly touch on this topic in your next Elf related video? Thanks for the content by the way. New subscriber and really enjoy the channel.
Pliz Geek zone make a video about Noumenor and the story of Elentil and Isildour and Nimloth the tree of Noumenor. Thanks
GeekZone Now the canadian movie "Enemy" begins make sense
Who would win
a 6000 year old super spider god women
A hobbit with chicken spice/a glowing bottle and a fierce platonic love for his fellow Hobbit
Who would win
a 6000 year old super spider god woman
or
a fat gardener with food obsession
Sting=Spider Bane in Sindarin.
I like how all the other races have famous weapons wielded by famous warriors that can do unbelievable things, and now the hobbits also have 1 sting which I would imagine would be come of the most famous weapons
"platonic"
The hobbit would win, every day of the week and twice on Thursdays
Sauron: this is my cat
Shelob: I don't know this man
Typical cat behavior... lol
lmao
This explains a lot of their relationship 😂
I had a dream once that I was a immortal god being with super strength like superman, super speed and flight, could heal anything and anyone with a touch make things come alive with a touch , turn anything or anyone to any creature I wanted and could shoot solar beams out of my hands etc and brought enlightenment and prosperity to middle earth after sauron died, I tamed Shelob by beating her up and the people of Gondor had a huge supply of spider silk to make elaborate fine clothes, dresses, shirts, pants , hats and rope and tapestries and it's spider silk it made their clothes bullet proof basically being safer if attacked and made gondor more wealthy and went to moria to help clear out the orcs for the dwarves to recolonize it and Killed the watcher lake monster at moria and brought it to gondor and people had a big feast eating lots of sushi that night and boy did they feast and for some reason they teriyaki, orange and Wassabi sauces but I couldn't eat it 🤢, so i asked them to just cook me a whole beef cow filling a table full of beef etc with a pile of melted cheese, ale and pipe weed and we celebrated lol 😎😂😂
Sam obvioulsy had the Bane of Anthropods enchantment on Sting which gave him the upper hand
Purified Water lmao
It’s “Arthropods” by the way
Sting means Spider's Bane in Sindarin soooo
Sting was named when Bilbo killed those spiders in Mirkwood.
@@batuhangocer6642 He also got the name when he stabbed a spider and it screamed "IT STINGS, IT STINGS!"
Shelob is probably still alive, just with a bitter hatred for midgets with swords.
Someone resurrect Verne Troyer and get his ass a Broadsword!
Yeah, she didn't die. Just got bloodied a bit and left.
And LED lights.
lol i vote this for Best Comment here!!
I would think she would of moved on with everything collapsing and Mt Doom Erupting.
As to the fate of Shelob: As Tolkien was so fond of parallels...perhaps Shelob did recover, but remained in her lair, slowly starving until, like her mother, she ate herself is desperation.
Like mother like daughter
Actually, in the book She was starving because Sauron was destroing the Life that lived there, now that Sauron has been destroyed, many Life forms Will return to mordor, She Will be able to feast again...
Im hungry and i dont want to die. I'll eat myself. Fair logic.
@@princeofsomnia7664 Literally how our own bodies work. Our bodyfat is our reserves, once we're out of fat we start consuming muscles which eventually can lead to major injury or even death.
@@Demon2k3 I agree, I would only correct and say that your body will consume muscle before it consumes fat.
Shelob absolutely survived. I saw her in my shower the other day... :)
Did you stomp her
Yep and she migrated to Australia and had many children
I had to get a ladder in order to get above her, but yes.
brilliant
@@FlapsGomez
XD
Ungoliant must have been a whole other level of terror for Melkor to be scared of her.
If the balrogs didn’t make it in time he’d have been eaten and his essence would have fled to the halls of Mandos or Eru himself would call him
Gollum can seriously survive anything
Reading the book many times, and listening to the audio book (while gaming, which means only like 50% absorption) many times, I feel like at some point Gollum is given his dues. I think he's supposed to be extremely clever, and hardy, in an evil sort of way. He's got a knack for not dying, even under the most deadly of circumstances. Not in a badass heroic way, but in a pathetic, roach like fashion. He's very old, wise with experience, cunning, and very cruel, able to live in spite of immense opposition.
@IL0VEURM0THER too soon. 🙁
Not lava...apparently
Simon Lu. thats true. It is believed that Gollum is the rings personality(not confirmed tho)
Except lava/magma.
Please don't ever apologize for being busy with your life!
I adore your videos, the depth you go to explain everything, the maps and paintings and other random yet related pictures to illustrate the scence is simply fantastic and gets me hooked right away. I'd prefer to wait and get quality content than a sped up rushed video!
Thank you for also mentioning Shadow of War.
Cheers mate, I really really appreciate it!
Sauron: this is my pet spider shelob, she is perfect and I love her. She keeps annoying elves and humans out and eats all my prisoners and insubordinate minions.
Jared Flynn Shelob: Sauron?? Who the hell is he?!?
@@fbnflaviusbroadcastingnetw6786 typical cat
Mate i have read every tolkien book there is, and your breakdowns and descriptions of the fauna and nature of Ea/Middle earth is Almost perfect, very good profiling of "the world that is" ARDA well done!
Cheers mate, that's quite a compliment!
When I saw Return of the King in the movie theatre, there was a woman behind me that had a full on panic attack during the Shelob scenes
Gomez1915 there’s a lot of folk complaining about in these comments but it was a good scene. I remember the entire theater squirming when she was hunting Frodo from above
One of the many reasons i dont go to cinemas.
You you slap the b****?
I saw it with my sister and mom. I read the books so I knew what shelob was my mom did too, my sister screamed when she saw her lol
@Drake I had to deal with spiders when I was younger they don't really bother me anymore but I've seen people flip out over a small house spider in a movie, they get a bad rep they look scary and intimidating but most of them are very docile and timid, they're more afraid of us then we are of them.
Brain: *_"HEY LETS WATCH THIS RIGHT BEFORE WE GO TO SLEEP"_*
I feel personally attacked by this
@@gradyholland1281 >:O
Do it
@@Emperor_Palpatine_66 It is done, my master
My brain:
"Who's Brian and why would Brian do that? -wait..."
"Shelob, daughter of Ungoliant. Where does she come from?"
Well, that's one question already answered :p
i believe she either ate herself like her mother or was killed, a resurgent gondor under king aragorn would not tolerate such an evil to remain so near its borders
yiggdrasill no doubt she didn't live long after the fall of sauron
she was alive before sauron and did not need him. i doubt she would need him after the fall. Spiders are notorious for their ability to survive in almost any environment.
the underworld is a vast and dark place. she could have just retreated deeper and come out somewhere else, or never came back out. The deeps of the world hold many foul things that Morgoth twisted from creations of the other Valar. There are still all the other Balrogs down there somewhere, most of those things will never come to the surface, even to the end of the world.
I reckon she'd have ate herself once she ran out of orcs.
@@baneblackguard584 Exactly. People need to read the books.
"His cat he calls her, but she owns him not".. Nice aspersion by Tolkien to the fact that cats own their humans and not the other way around?
No. Own means acknowledge in this context.
It works both ways.
@@Hans293 Obviously you've never "owned" a cat or you'd know exactly what Ronald meant.
@@indy_go_blue6048 Hans293 is mostly likely correct in identifying the now somewhat archaic usage employed by Tolkien here. It does make for a funnier line when one reads it being accustomed to modern usage.
For the first time I realized that the relationship between cats and humans in dwarf fortress could be an allusion to that passage
I'm terrified of spiders, but I also have a curious sense of reverence toward them. I believe that she not only survived but made a full recovery, and later on fled, perhaps south along the mountains. She was ever more cautious because of the encounter with Sam, so she passed out of the knowledge of the world, nibbling on wildlife or stray travellers who brought back no news of this unknown terror. I think also that she's a neutral character, one whose only purpose is to be left alone and survive.
Nice theory
@@princethegoat4838 Thanks! :)
Mount doom erupted, if she was badly wounded to move. I feel like she died when the mountain erupted.
People act like Sam greatly hurt Shelob or something but he really didn't he gave her a very shallow wound. Shelob just gave up because it wasn't worth the trouble for two tiny morsels and retreated too wait for an orc or something to come by that wouldn't be too much trouble.
I had a dream once that I was a immortal god being with super strength like superman, super speed and flight, could heal anything and anyone with a touch make things come alive with a touch , turn anything or anyone to any creature I wanted and could shoot solar beams out of my hands etc and brought enlightenment and prosperity to middle earth after sauron died, I tamed Shelob by beating her up and the people of Gondor had a huge supply of spider silk to make elaborate fine clothes, dresses, shirts, pants , hats and rope and tapestries and it's spider silk it made their clothes bullet proof basically being safer if attacked and made gondor more wealthy and went to moria to help clear out the orcs for the dwarves to recolonize it and Killed the watcher lake monster at moria and brought it to gondor and people had a big feast eating lots of sushi that night and boy did they feast and for some reason they teriyaki, orange and Wassabi sauces but I couldn't eat it 🤢, so i asked them to just cook me a whole beef cow filling a table full of beef etc with a pile of melted cheese, ale and pipe weed and we celebrated lol 😎😂😂
6500 years old, wrecked by a hobbit
Rolled at Natural 20 😂
Never mess with angry Sam!
and a gardner at that :-)
@@GenericUsername-qp1ww gardeners are good at killing spiders i think
The War of Rat!
It sounds like a very metal album from the 1980s.
Sam won because Shelob lost a few eyes and become a senior citizen at age 6500
Look who's talking about winning
@@skibdishorts125 same can be said of you
@@jewberggoldstein7112 bwaaaaaahahah. Im sooo mad I got that. I feel so bad lool!
😂😂😂😂😂🗡
Did you ever consider to....DODGE the arrows!!!!!!!!
Where did she come from, where did she go. Cotton Eyed Shelob.
im proud of you
ahh, dang it! you beat me to it! haha
You beat me to it!
You deserve the world
JoQan Shelob Joe
What is it about Elven weapons in Middle-Earth that makes them capable of harming near god-like entities? Is it because Elves were the closest to the Ainer, given their long history with them?
I believe that could play a part, that perhaps their craftsmanship was superior since some of them had learnt from the Ainur themselves. However I also believe that natural Elven wisdom and skill plays a part!
i think it is twofold. first they were magical and skilled enough through training and divinity that they could infuse part of their will into objects, and second they also had superior metallurgy so that even un-infused items would be far superior to ones made by men or even dwarves.
I would also consider dwarven weapons such as Anduril and Angrist, the works of Telchar of Nogrod. The shattered shard of Anduril was used to cut the one ring from Sauron' s hand, presumably through his (enchanted?) Armour. Angrist cut a Silmaril from Morgoths crown, again a feat a mundane weapon wouldn't succeed in doing (alluded to in the Silamarillion). The fathers of the dwarves were taught by Aule as were some of the Noldor!
I'm quoting from the top of my head but the Silarillion says that "from the beginning the dwarves had wondrous skill with crafting and in the tempering of steel they were unmatched"
Al Monty yeah but the sword andruil was originally forged by elves
If she's over 6500 years old, that means she could appear in the Amazon prime lotr series set in the second age
It also means she will be a victim of wokism too then.
@@DackJaniels51111 loll a woke spider. I sincerely hope amazon doesn't screw it up
@@redhidinghood9337 I wish I shared your hope, I know they will screw it up, it’s only been remade to screw it up.
@@DackJaniels51111 they didnt mess up the boys. There is still hope
@@mr.wilson9941 believe it when I see it buddy
While not canon, Shelob's portrayal (or rather lack thereof) in the Lord of the Rings Online is very interesting. Despite the story in the game having reached the point where the Ring is destroyed and Sauron is defeated, we still haven't actually seen Shelob herself, though we do get to see her Point of View when Gollum runs ahead to visit her just before Sam and Frodo come along. We also see one of her spider minions run into her lair for safety, only to come running back out fleeing from her wrath, until Shelob webs it and drags it back into her lair. Her spiders have very nearly completely taken over Cirith Ungol by now and both the Men of Gondor and the remnants of Sauron's lieutenants alike are getting very concerned that Shelob and her brood might decide to invade the rest of Mordor and perhaps even Gondor itself. The game seems to be hinting and teasing that we'll get to face Shelob eventually but not for now. It will be very intriguing to see what the developers decide to do with her.
Keep up the great work! - A fellow Malteser :)
I'm sure they'll make her some fellowship or raid boss :) Hopefully they do her justice!
It's been confirmed officially that we will face Shelob in one of the future updates in 2018.
I am so happy I started LOTRO I am only lv 23 XD but the story/side quests have been interesting! I hope we get to face Shelob!
@@xabun Did that actually happen, not played the game.
@@PressA2Die Yes, it happend :) The most recent expansion is called "Minas Morgul" which was released couple of weeks ago. Shelob is indeed a Raid Boss now ;) lotro.com/en/minasithil/
They totally screwed Shallob up in the movies in my opinion. I loved how Sam and Frodo realised they were walking into their deaths in the book, but that they still chose to go for the good of middle-earth. Instead we get this weird Frodo and Sam break up in the movie.
Agreed!
If anything could be better, it’s those Hobbit movies :’( they sure fucked those up
Cole Lutz They had their good moments.
Soul6 No
It'sColdInMay Yes, they did. For example Smaug, Thorin and Bilbo are amazing in the movies.
Really wanne believe shelob lived on after the fight with Sam and healed herself up. She was one of my favorite characters of lotr. Nice video !
Cheers mate! It could very well be possible and no one can say for certain what happened to her, so believe whatever you prefer regarding her fate! :)
if there ever expand into the forth age, it would be cool to see shelob return and a new hero wielding sting coming to kill her.
@@knightlygaming1906 or she wipes out gondor completely after obtaining even more power. Much more fun.
Sir John Murder or her strongest offspring will be the next dark lords ”companion”
7:40 Bilbo could only hear them whisper but he didnt understand them
only after he put on the ring he heard them speak clearly
i dont think that would be possible without the ring same goes for gollum and shelob
After freeing Fili we're told: He had taken off his ring when he rescued Fili and forgotten to put it on again, so now they all began to splutter and hiss: "Now we see you, you nasty little creature! We will eat you and leave your bones and skin hanging on a tree" I always took this to be from Bilbo's point of view, which would indicate that he could still hear them without the ring
Perhaps the ring grants you the ability not to understand but to rapidly learn the languages of other races. It would certainly make it easier to conquer them. Also Bilbo didn't immediately lose the life-long giving abilities of the One Ring when he gave it Frodo, maybe the language ability stays with you for a time as well.
@@GeekZoneMT Exactly. The spiders could speak and nothing indicates that they spoke a different language. That said, while most of what occurs in The Hobbit is supposed to be a recollection on Bilbo's part - implying he himself knew these things - there are a lot of parts wherein Tolkien is telling us things that Bilbo is oblivious or ignorant to, like the difference between Goblins and Orcs, for example, or how the party was in a valley when Bilbo climbed the tree and didn't know how close they were to the edge of Mirkwood (nor that they would have been lost in nigh-unpassable swamps had they known and continued). So, there is always the off-chance that Bilbo didn't know what they were saying without the Ring, but the book implies that they just spoke and anyone could understand.
I mean, Morgul speech was a thing, but in The Hobbit, at least, just about every evil thing spoke English (or whatever language they speak in Middle-Earth - the tongues of Men) either to or in the presence of Bilbo and he understood. The trolls, the goblins, the spiders, etc. - Bilbo understood them all.
What I believe is that perhaps Gollum, having become so Dark an entity himself, may have (unwittingly) become fluent in the languages of the Dark Places of the World. His 2500-year-long possession of the Ring may have made him so finely attuned to the Shadow that he was, by the time of his release from Barad-Dûr, akin to it.
Gollum was infected by the Ring over a long period of time and maybe that "infection" allowed him to talk with Shelob. Or maybe it's the reason she didn't find him appealing (to eat). Or both.
I've seen the Return of the King at least 5 or 6 times in my life.
I know a great deal about spiders and other animals.
And I still never thought about how Shelob has a stinger.
Witcher 3, lord of the rings and dragon age inquisition music al in one video...impressive
Thanks! :)
And Warlords of Draenor the best part of it
And WoW
That was so interesting, thank you
You're welcome! :)
She absolutely survived. I will not accept that her terrible reign over Cirith Ungol ends from a few mere stab wounds and a blinding light. If it were so easy, she would have died long ago.
For my 9th birthday (back in 1985) I asked for a dungeons & dragons module. In their ignorance, my parents bought me *Shelob's Lair* from the Middle Earth Role Playing Game ("MERP"). It wasn't D&D, but was instead from the wrong system. Despite that I read it ... and absolutely fell in love with the mystery and lore of Shelob, in all her ancient evil. The powers assigned to her were all kinds of mind and sensory base magics, to control feelings, read minds, craft false sounds, rob the senses. She had dozens perhaps hundreds of "spiderlings" which ranged in size from a medium sized dog to a horse. Cirith Ungol was a splendid playground of horror and despair; perfect for gloomy adventures.
Since reading about Shelob, I've had a hint of bias toward spider-like monsters... like Atlach Nacha, the dark weaver of all days' end.
They've been devouring life long since before the first primates ever existed, so they are indeed ancient. Spiders seem alien compared to Humans, and the way they look and operate is so strange; waiting, patiently, silently, for something to come, so it can be quickly and tenderly wrapped up, put to death, digested, and then sucked up like an oozing flesh smoothy. The bizarre, grotesque, and somehow elegant ways of the spider can spark the imagination for all kinds of horrors. Great stuff.
LINK: vdocuments.mx/merp-the-tower-of-cirith-ungol-and-shelobs-lair.html
Idk if would call her evil. Just self serving.
Yes always wanted to know more about the spider-queen "Shelob"love the way she is portrayed in the book!
- Thansk for makeing this! ;)
You're welcome Peter, glad you liked it mate!
Indeed! :D - You have found more things, than I knew about her and you have some exciting theories about her, both before with her mother and after :)
One thing I've always been fascinated of her is that her more comes from the void, right? - So we don't know what exactly Shelob is (Other then, her spider looks) - where if compare it to the Balrog is "dark/evil" maja spirit of Melkor :)
Yes I agree, I too find the concept of the void pretty awesome, love the mystery around it! I wish we knew a bit more about it! :)
GeekZone - I think J.R.R Tolkien wanted to create the mystery of the Void by many other things to catch our interests even more.
- But must say this is on of the things, that makes Middle-Earth so big of a world, that we can know the truth about anything :)
Shelob is my favourite creature in the Lord Of The Rings universe. I seemingly just stumbled upon this, much like a victim of Shelob's 🕷 I really found this so interesting; thanks for the video! 😊
In the Game Shadow of War, I don't think she's exactly Shape-Shifting, as she is projecting the side of her she got from her Mother being an entity from Beyond the World. Her "Human" form in the Game only really appears to those who have a direct connection other plains of being, like the Wraith World. It may even be that Gollum's intense connection to the One Ring allowed him to see Shelob's other side, and that's how she was able to commune with him and gain his worship...
Just a Thought...
It’s been said that that game is non-canon to the history.
Nothing remotely "Human" about Shelob. Semi-intelligent , hunger -consumed beast. That's the book version or true version all that other nonsense was made up for a video game.
Can remember my sister walking out of the cinema when Shelob came in the screen 😂
I have always imagined she had a human head since they describe her having horns and a neck. Idk I think it makes a more terrifying image and it also explains her being able to talk to Gollum
Ooh like quelaag from dark souls! *scribbles that down* sounds cool to me!
I can’t stop watching these. Your voice and delivery are fantastic my guy. gg
Cheers mate, glad you enjoy them!
I know this video is two years old at the time I write this. And I realize in recent years LOTR may have somewhat 'fallen' to the wayside to make way for other fantasies such as GoT and others, but man LOTR Lore is just unrivaled. I'm a huge fan and I love these videos I'm learning even more about Tolkien's universe through your videos. Awesome work mate 👍
I have never read any hint at Shelob having an alternative, human form. It seems more like an invention of the game, possibly having had Lolth in mind.
She was never described as an actual spider but spider like. So I guess that means she could shapeshift??? Idk, all I know having a hot goth lady tell me to do shit is much better than fugly spider lady doing it.
@@lelouche25 the game was great and I love it, but this was frustrating for me. I would have loved to have had Shelob made more mysterious. I feel like making her "human" was a bit of get out
@@lelouche25 I'm inclined to think that she couldn't shapeshift, but rather could morph in appearance over time, slowly changing to match her corrupt spirit
Excellent summary of the backstory of one the most terrifying monsters in the LOTR. The only thing that I disagreed with is the possibility of Shelob being some kind of shape shifter. There is no evidence for this in the actual books and it is made quite clear that, though she may have been some type of hybrid form of spider, she was in fact the biological offspring of Ungoliant and the spiders of Ered Gorgoroth that she mated with. She does seem to have inherited the immortality of her mother Ungoliant, who was herself probably one of the Maia who, like the balrogs, were corrupted by Melkor in the beginning of Arda. But there is no mention of Shelob having any other type of supernatural powers.
I wonder if Steven King got any inspiration for the form of It and the Deadlights from Ungoliant.
It's possible though I feel any similarities are more likely to be a coincidence in this case :)
King was a huge HP Lovecraft fan, so that was a huge influence for King. Wonder if Tolkien ever read Lovecraft's works...
The deadlights, and the fact that "It" is a primordial being from the Void who chose to take on the form of a spider... SK is famous for starting his idea process by asking: "What if..." so its possible that his original idea for It was "What if Ungoliant was living under Derry?"
"Don't follow the lights!" -Gollum IJS
Most definitely in my personal opinion 😁👍🏿 great authors and amazing works of literature!
Just beautiful.
Thank you so much. It's awesome being able to dig into the lore with someone who is such a great stroyteller. Thank you so much
I've always found Shelob a certain thing of strange beauty, a malice of a bygone age still lingering in shadows.
That's quite appropriate and a really nice way of putting it! Thanks for sharing!
By that logic you should find the KKK strangely beautiful, but okay.
@@timeforvintagepancakes9751 Shelob ain't no racist. She'd eat you no matter what
What are you even trying to say? Was this meant to sound intelligent yet communicate absolutely nothing?
I had a dream once that I was a immortal god being with super strength like superman, super speed and flight, could heal anything and anyone with a touch make things come alive with a touch , turn anything or anyone to any creature I wanted and could shoot solar beams out of my hands etc and brought enlightenment and prosperity to middle earth after sauron died, I tamed Shelob by beating her up and the people of Gondor had a huge supply of spider silk to make elaborate fine clothes, dresses, shirts, pants , hats and rope and tapestries and it's spider silk it made their clothes bullet proof basically being safer if attacked and made gondor more wealthy and went to moria to help clear out the orcs for the dwarves to recolonize it and Killed the watcher lake monster at moria and brought it to gondor and people had a big feast eating lots of sushi that night and boy did they feast and for some reason they teriyaki, orange and Wassabi sauces but I couldn't eat it 🤢, so i asked them to just cook me a whole beef cow filling a table full of beef etc with a pile of melted cheese, ale and pipe weed and we celebrated lol 😎😂😂
It's also interesting to note, that Shelob didn't seem to have much or any interest in the one Ring, if she was even aware of it's existance.
Yep we're told she had no interest in rings or trinkets :)
GeekZone in the start of shadow of war she traded calabrimbor for the pure ring of power
Dylan W Shadow of War and Shadow of Mordor are not canon
They're actually breaking Tolkien's lore
Good games, but you should see them as stand-alone universes
Arthur Cornelus I was just pointing that out considering that was a plot point. I know it's not care because talion would have beat the crap out of Aragorn
Dylan W, with powers base talion would get raped by Aragorn.
Welcome back GeekZone! Great video, totally worth the wait!!
Thanks Polymath! :)
Her mom was an alien?
Man, LOTR lore is always so much cooler and deeper than I thought.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Middle Earth 😁👍🏿
@@brucewayne1269 Pleased to be here, lol.
@@codymartinson9518 are you? We have dragons, giant spider and elephants, evil empires, a dark god waiting to return from the void, wraiths , flaming demons magic rings and giant armys of corrupted men and creatures. Yes, such beatuy we have.
@@tumhornkingslayer6411 You forgot small gnomes, walking trees, nameless things in the dark, blue wizards and a Blue singing magic santa claus.
@@blazeofglory8539 also werewolves and vampires
The way they are described as being their own kind of darkness and making the two forget colors sounds like depression.
Given the effect of the darkness on their minds, and as being a part of her, I wonder if her sting had lasting mental effects on Frodo at the end of the quest. If it made him weaker to resist the Ring. After it is destroyed, he talks about not being able to remember the Shire while Sam is trying to get him off the mountain, like all hope had been driven from him.
If he hadn't been stung, or felt the effects of her darkness, would he have been strong enough to throw the Ring into the volcano?
Interesting
I really enjoy your thorough and precise accounts of Middle Earth, with room for some personal interpretation. Also, your accent makes your videos stand out and more captivating (for me at least). Thanks for posting and keep up the good work.
Can you do a video theorizing about the fate of the entwives?
For sure, thanks for the suggestion!
Yes, please. That'll be fun and greatly appreciated.
Great idea !
They are in the Old Wood, next to the Barrow Downs, outside the Shire.
@@billhenry7213
I didn't get to finish reading my library book... So the entwives were found? That's good
I think Professor Tolkien did that deliberately in order to encourage us to use our imaginations about Shelob.
Monolith: instructions unclear, turn apoopy spider into goth lady.
Welcome back Geek!!! Its been a little while but I don't mind you take all the time you need to make your awesome videos and love this one btw I find Shelob to be a very creepy yet very interesting character/creature in the Legendarium and I wish we knew what exactly happens to her after she was scared off by Sam in Cirth Ungol but one of the things that makes Tolkiens works so great and enchanting is some parts of the Legendarium are very vague and forever remain up to theory and speculation anyway loved this video and can't wait for the next one :)
Thanks Luke! I agree, keeping the mystery keeps the subject alive, having an answer to everything does kill the magic sometimes! :)
GeekZone Your welcome and I agree being vague does very much keep the subject alive and just bluntly giving the answers to everything does very much kill the magic sometimes anyway can't wait for the next video! :)
do you like shadow of war
I like to believe she had some telepathic ability that allowed her to control how her victims perceived her. The power of the one ring amplified that allowing its bearer to become hyper sensitive of that ability. This is why Bilbo could hear her spider-lings speaking when wearing the ring in Mirkwood and why Gollum was able to hear her thoughts after being in possession of the one ring for so long. I think that's also why the creators of the game decided to have Talion see her in a different form. She would have been much stronger at this time due to the constant supply of food when The Black Gates and Minas Ithil were full of men. Fast forward to when Return of the King when she is starving from lack of orcs who know not to stray into the pass. Weak from hunger, Sam is able to best her with Sting blinding her with the Phial of Galadriel. I like to think that she meets her doom the same way her mother did. Being blind and powerless, unable to find her way or sustain herself further, succumbing to her hunger by devouring herself.
I'll burp to that!😊
7:03
OMG I love this artwork!
I really appreciate it if some artists come up with some new and creative designs instead of all those stereotypish depictions
(also with balrogs, usually they just look like the first thing that would come to mind if someone said "firedemon")
Yes, it really helps expand beyond our typical idea of a creature! :)
yea makes me kinda sad when looking at the desings in the movies... shelob, the balrog, the fellbeasts, the watcher,... they could have really gone carzy with the designs, but theyre all so generic
Generic? Now yes, but before the trilogy movies? Have you seen any of the old artwork for LOTR? Balrogs often seemed to look like medieval devils (so red slightly fat dudes with tiny pointy horns) for one example. I think the movie versions are much more generic in retrospect, because the movies basically changed the face of the fantasy genre overnight.
One of Tolkiens most interesting side stories. Your commentary was very enlightening. Thanks for making the effort and keep up the good work!
Cheers mate!
Here's another possibility: The lands around Mordor basically went berserk and collapsed when the Ring was destroyed. It's entirely possible that in this event, Cirith Ungol was destroyed, and Shelob with it,
MrInitialMan true, a possibility.
I'll gladly dive head first into this rabbit hole. I love the Lore behind anything Middle Earth has to offer.
7:45 I'm sure Bilbo could only hear the spiders talking when he had the ring on. When he took it off, he would only here the normal giant spider sounds anybody else could hear.
Great video! I had never looked this deeply into Shelob, so this was very informative! :) I actually like the idea of her being able to assume a human form for just a short time: It makes sense because of her mother’s ability to assume the form she pleased. It makes sense that a being of the void who was able to choose a form, would be able to change it, if only for a short time. If anything it’s a tie in to her mother that makes her unique among the great spiders.
So... did no one else think that this should have been called “Lore of the Rings?”
AAAAH missed opportunity
Shelob is probably My Favorite Antagonist, I remember my aunt telling me about her before I watched the 3rd LOTR film, and boy I wasn't disappointed, and after watching you're video about her, I never knew she was that old, 6500! Damn! She kinda reminds me of the Sin Gluttony, because she like her mother have an insatiable hunger, thanks for the Video man! And keep it up, my mind wouldn't be able to explain the vast world of Middle-Earth as good as you, so thanks for doing these videos.
At least she turns into like... A hot SORCERESS lady ghost in
The middle earth shadow of war game lol
One of many ungodly insane and stupid interpretations they used in the game.
At the very least, we know ungoliant had the ability to assume a form into the world, similar to ainur.
Now, that being said, most ainur don’t have offspring for moral or unknown reasons. But ungoliant did, as did Melian.
Luthien, born to Melian, was half elf and half Ainu. Luthien shapeshifted or flawlessly disguised herself and Beren into vampires and werewolves. Plus think about it, shelob is a pretty magical creature and even has that stinger.
Anyways, I think the likely explanation is that they ripped the ability off from ungoliant and the ainur. But I hope my theory might provide some explanation
I never tire of your well researched and well thought out tellings of Middle Earth. Always your presentations are thought provoking and fascinating. Keep up the great work.
Sam was actually from Australia in the books, that's why Shelob was no match for him
Great video! I do like the movies a lot, but I always found in this instance that Peter Jackson wasn’t quite able to get Shelob’s horror and ferocity on screen
Tolkien of course was able to describe her terror perfectly. How it wasn’t just darkness per se, but a darkness that can confuse and numb the mind. I also loved how the phail’s light was able to cut through the darkness.
I agree, in the film's she was was dumbed down into 'one big spider'
MrPiestro no reason to get all fucking dung beetled about things Jesus Christ
To this day, She lives still...
Perhaps :)
alicia sciarrillo what?
And her name is Anne Coulter......
Pretty sure she moved to Australia. Have you seen the spiders there?!?!?!
She merely moved to Derry Maine and took up the name Pennywise.
Dude. I have watched quite a few of your videos. I just want to say. You're awesome. I love Lord of the rings movies and have learned so much more about middle earth because of you. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
I never cared for Shelob as a character until shadow of war, her abilities to have foresight, shapeshifting and other magic made her a more powerful being. When she took a human form in the game, she not only appeared human in appearance but also in her personality, I find her a lovable character for those reasons. The book lore doesn't really appeal to me
Yes, she was a real haethe ekhge!
First video of yours that I watched and it rekindled my love for Middle Earth and the Works of Tolkien. Keep up the great work!
LOL, according to the "Middle-earth Shadow of War" video game, Shelob was a beautiful elven woman who dated Sauron back when he was a beautiful elven woman. Shelob could change into a giant spider and Sauron could change into tall dark armor. I have no idea who wrote that particular lore for the game, but I think we can all agree that medicinal substances were involved.
But sauron did changed into a fair form. Apperantly he couldn't after the fall Numenor. But he could, though hes never described how he looks in the books. I assume he doesn't look "fair" anymore but he had four fingers on the black hand. Whatever that means.
I'm so glad I discovered your channel. I've only watched a few videos so far but am enjoying it immensely.
Thank you for such excellent videos
You're welcome mate! :)
Considering shelob is the daughter of Ungoliant, who is not much different from the Maiar (just the timing of her arrival is different) and who apparently chose to take the form of a spider, it is a possibility that Shelob has some shapeshifting abilities. if not, she might be able to influence people's minds to percieve her as something that she isn't. Like an illusion. And since we first see her in the game when she actively taps into the Ring's powers, that might be why she never does that in the book or movie.
Man I want a high budget HBO show based off LOTR, I don't care what part it's about, but it would be epic! Great Video!
consequenceofsound.net/2017/11/lord-of-the-rings-tv-series-in-the-works-at-amazon/?wasp=facebook-ads
You never know!
True enough, I really hope this is a worthwhile series.
I'm really amazed that the Tolkien estate (and Christopher Tolkien?) gave their permission for it.
From what I've heard it'll cover the pre LOTR era supposedly,
Maybe some of the Silmarillion?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
HBO would ruin it imo, but each to their own.
This is the first video of yours I have watched, absolutely brilliant. Love to hear you explore the lore of Tolkiens work. Thank you.
"where did she come from? What was her final fate" So in other words, where did she come from, where did she go?
where did she come from, where did she go?
Where did she run too spider legged shelob.
Hmmm.... Doesn't scan, but it is funny.
If it hadn't been for Spider-eye Joe, I'd have reached Mount Doom a long time ago. Where did she come from, where did she go? Where did she come from, Spider-eye Joe?
DANGIT!! Beat me to it, first thing that popped into my brain xD
Where did she come from, where did she go, where did you go to many eyed woe?
Hans Ollo cotton-eye’d ‘Lob.. lol
The great thing is that Sam isn’t the one to deal the finishing blow against Shelob. She does it herself. Sting couldn’t pierce her thick hide, even her underside, and the only reason he’s able to stab her is because she put all of her weight down in an attempt to crush him, not realizing he had the blade up. Sam is still an absolute legend for winning that fight though
I always liked to think fleeing orcs ran into her cave and she ate them like a feast and grew huge and healed well. then when she was strong enough to hunt again and disturb the forces of good she realized she had grown too huge. though she was strong, possibly more evil and stronger than she ever was, her gluttony was her undoing and she was trapped in the caves forever
A nice summary and drawing of parallels. Especially the point that Shelob had a form of her mother's Unlight, which I hadn't considered before. Gives me some ideas I might use in my roleplaying campaigns.
Another great video, I really appreciate your thoughtful and scholarly analysis of the masterpiece. Interestingly, the Shadow of Morder bit you mention reminds me of a fictional D&D diety, Lolth, the Demon Spider Queen who would alternate forms between a monstrous spider entity and an enticing dark woman. Though I also feel like the imagery of the spider and seductive woman are old archetypes. Off topic...any thoughts on the origins of Tolkien's sparsely mentioned Giants?
Youve just got one new sub from me! Thanks for all the hard work, this channel is very entertaining and informative - even for a long time reader of Tolkien like me. I really like the way you try to create a discourse and to analyse the symbolism and all hidden meaning in Tolkien's lore, as most people know that's why his lore is so incredibly special. Please make more vids! From one forever Tolkien's admirer to the other!
Cheers Martin and welcome to the fellowship! I'm glad you enjoy the videos! I've got a video on Tom Bombadil coming up soon, really happy with the way it turned out! :)
Geek, I have an idea for a future vid about angband & thangorodrim.
I finished reading "Beren and Luthien" a few weeks ago, and in some of the older poems there are pretty detailed descriptions about the angband and morgoths hall
that would perhaps be interesting for the audience :D
(For example: the doors of angband may look similar to the iron throne from GoT: Its said to be covered with blades)
And there are also a few questions i couldnt answer myself, like, how did thangorodrim look from outside?
Was it just a bare mountain, or was it covered with fortresses?
How close were the three piekes together, and how high were they?
How would smoke behave thats emitted so high above the ground (I guess it would fall down bc the air there is thinner than the ash clouds)
Just a few points that may help getting a clearer image of what these places looked like
I'll look into it for sure! :)
Great! :)
GeekZone, this was a really good video, and very interesting. There were a couple of mistakes that I'll explain below, but they were just misunderstandings of the English involved. Overall, I really liked your video. You did a great job with the research and it makes me want to dig out my books and read them again. Have a great day! Thanks. 🙂
- People often refer to spider bites as "stings", so when she was trying to "sting" Sam, that just meant that she was trying to bite him with her fangs.
- When Tolkein says she was "most like a spider", he was just being poetic. It's just a story-telling technique, a grandiose way of saying that she was a spider. (If he had said "mostly like a spider", then it would have meant what you thought in the video.) Saying she was "most like a spider" sounds better than saying "she was a spider", but it means the same thing.
The void! isn't that where it the clown is from? Does that make him some how related to shelob...
Haha are you referring to IT? :p
Lol yip 😩
@@stevedavis9497 Would explain his spider-esque appearance.
No IT is from the "Macroverse"
@@sntreulfravn2321 King's Macroverse is sometimes described as a void.
I always like to think of the darkness of Ungoliant and Shelob as like the darkness of space (since they originate from the void). It’s not darkness as in the absence of light but darkness as in an oppressive emptiness that consumes and overpowers all. It’s also why it’s “otherworldly” and affects the mind and the senses. I think this is what Tolkien intended to convey, in particular by the theme of constant hunger and gluttony such that, ultimately, it consumes itself.
I haven't read the Hobbit Book but in the Movie Bilbo IS wearing the ring when he hears the spiders talk.
He is but just before killing one, he takes it off, and he still hears it scream "Stings! Stings!" before dying, hence Bilbo's naming of the blade Sting.
@@altairdovahkiin9744 I'm sure he has the ring on when he hears the Spiders say it stings it stings
You make wonderful videos that keeps the attention engrossed! Thanks!
The only arachnids to have stingers are scorpions. 👽
"She was like a spider, but not quite."
Really impressive. I just discovered your channel. No need to apologise for real life. It does need attention. What you presented here was wonderful, thoughtful and well researched.
You made me think of the Void and Ungoliant. It could be once the Fire initiated, it, in and of itself allowed for essence to engender consciousness. The Song of the Valar could also have something to do with her coalescence into consciousness as creation could assist with uncreation and spontaneously called forth darkness out of the void.
You really make me feel like wanting to reread my Tolkien books from a researcher’s stance, but alas, really life is quite demanding at the moment. Thank you again. I can’t wait to look at your other videos.
Cheers, that means a lot to me! I'll do my best not to dissapoint! :)
Cirith Ungol: ’cirith’ is pronounced ’kirith’ - not ’chirith’. Most place names in Middle Earth derive from the Sindarin language, which is based on Old Welsh, where ’c’ is always pronounced as ’k’.
Hey bro, it’s been some time since you have done a video, but it doesn’t bother me, you take all the time you want on making your videos, that’s why your videos are amazing. You take the time to make them perfectly and research as much as you could, keep the amazing work up. 👍🏻
Thanks mate, that means a lot I appreciate it! :)
i dont like spiders, so i am okay if she is dead.
It felt like forever. So glad you made another video
I'm gonna try and up my game to around 2 a week, so hopefully we'll make for it! ;)
I kinda feel sorry for shelob. After all shes just a big spider doing what any spider does, staying in its den waiting for prey. A Creatures got to eat. She doesnt seem to get involved in any other affairs. Just keeps herself to herself and picks up the scraps. She doesnt seem inherently evil. More just feared. It doesnt attack frodo for the ring, in fact it doesnt care about the ring at all its just hungry.
She's lived long enough... Time to call the exterminators!
It's worth mentioning that 6500 isn't that exeptional by middle-earth standarts.
There are a number of elves around in the time of LotR that are older (such as Galadriel, who is some 8000 years old),
and the Ents are far more ancient than that, being older than the race of elves in general.
Shelob is alive in New Zealand.
One thing in LOTR I'd like to see you address is why does it feel like he's going downhill when Treabeard walks south!? Amazing
Daniel Inskip because he’s so big that the curve of the planet affects him and makes it feel like he’s always walking down hill from the equator. Which means they must be at or south of the equator.
great work can you make a video of small facts and locations about all the seven dwarf clans
Thanks for the suggestion, added it to my list! :)
Can we get an episode on Ungoliant in the future please? I understand it's probably a daunting task, as lore about her is hard to dig up, but I'm sure you could do it, your research skills are impeccable!