I hope so too, and the point isn't to have a 1 to 1 experience of how hard it was back in 2007, because that's just not going to happen, but I think the point is to have a raid that is at least challenging for a vast majority of people for a least a week or two of progression.
@@GaeFootballClub I am playing on a private server, and it will be true. It took us 3 nights to kill Vashj 2.0 which had almost 10m hp and the mob having two time the hp they had on retail. Brutallus on retail had around 11m hp which required 32k raid dps to kill it while on a private server he had 17m hp and required 45k raid dps and we kill it in 1 night. It is just going to be that easy for top private server guilds.
I tanked as a prot warrior in in TBC and had so much fun! Sure wipe nights sucked but the win was oh so sweet. Hell we wiped on the opening trash in the eye for weeks until our gear caught up. Trash mobs requiring sheep or banish... AoE was dangerous back then. Thunderclap would break CC but was so important for a tank. I loved TBC
There were guilds that cleared KT a day after Nihilhum. A lot of the fight was learned before 2.1 by the world top guilds so they could kill it relatively fast once it was fixed and nerfed. It was essentially the same with Vashj (the two 2.0 kills of here were the result of exploits). Curse kept up with Nihilum for pretty much all of BT but got stuck on Illidan. They got there on the same day and took almost 3 weeks to kill him. Not sure why. Nihilum killed Illidan in a day.
Our guild got stuck on brutallus because we did not have an optimal raid makeup and lacked the dps(4 shadow priests only 2 hunters) but the top guild's on our server all got stopped by muru. I went and tried the fight on a friends account back in the day because he was so fed up with wiping and let me tell you that was the hardest boss fight hands down
TBC was the only expansion that i raided hardcore, so i would like to leave some comments. 1. Archimonde was one of my favourite fights because of the focus on personal responsibility. Unfortunately, there was an abusable bug that allowed a lot of guilds to cheat their way to victory. Players could stack on top of a fallen tree trunk where the abilities would not affect them. 2. As you may notice on the Vashj kill, everyone in the Method raid was Soulstoned through some trickery that was quickly patched out after their kill. The boss was so overtuned at release that she was not killable otherwise. 3. By the time the Sunwell Plateau got released having Leatherworking on everyone and 5 Shamans was common practice. It was not specifically done for this encounter. 4. Brutallus was an enraging design choice. He was the hardest gear check in the entire expansion, but he was a Demon, meaning that the amount of Warglaives of Azzinoth sets a guild had the luck to find directly impacted the difficulty of the fight. Also, Rogues were a strong class for the entirety of TBC, fury warriors, not so much. 5. The Illidari council was a joke. A lootbox. When Method Killed them they thought it was just phase 1 and that they would get back up like the Kael'Thas fight. The hardest bosses in BT were the Reliquary of Souls, Mother Shahraz (who got parryhaste removed from her because she would randomly instagib tanks) and Illidan himself. Some bosses that deserved to make the list were Nightbane, Gruul and Magtheridon.
Same here. Last time I was hardcore raider was BC. Archimode was one of my favorite fights. I was a tree druid. So it felt nice using travel form to decurse and run from fire. Lady V was my guilds toughest boss. She took us months to down. As for Brut we were the lucky guild with three glaive sets by the time we got to him. And our 4th was completed by twins lol. Every guild hated us during Sunwell.
Lady Vashj took us forever. A guild since Vanilla almost broke apart because of her. Took us 3 months but we did it. Still can find the guild first kill video. If you enjoy pixel videos haha ruclips.net/video/yk66M7KWnII/видео.html
It’s important to say everyone who got knocked up had to time a special ability to not die on the fall. One person misses it one time and everyone dies. My guild kicked like 40 people on this boss fight
No, Blizzard has been very hands off. They will likely release the last patch, with gated content just like they did in Classic Vanilla. I would love to see the harder content, and for them to go through the actual patches as time progresses, nerfing if we even still need it with today's skill/knowledge level, but I doubt we will see it.
I feel if they leave everything pre nerf but give us the 2.4.3 fixes and class changes while staggering the content like the patches, then it will please the largest crowd possible.
I remember how Blizzard essentially trolled us with their loot. Killing the Shadow one first would yield less loot, so we all assumed that was easier and tried that order, which turned out to be twice as hard! That cost my guild a week of raids...
Back then my guild only struggled and finally quit trying killing M'uru. Kael'thas was hard at start due to a ton of bugs. In general al the other bosses mentioned (and Kael'thas when bugs were fixed) didn't give us a lot of trouble aka 5-6 wipes on Archimonde,2 on Brutalus and I remember Lady Vashj being killed on 3rd try.
I remember modifying simple addon to help on Vashj fight, simple flashing screen when player got some orb that prevented movement was enough to slap her.
I don't play WoW anymore, but back then my rogue was killing it TBC. T6 full, both Warglaives and max Leatherworking. Also all the best consumables. Was always top 2 dmg dealers in my guild in the main raid. We finished all the content, even though we weren't even close to firsts or something. We were just a very good guild which conquered all the content. How is it nowadays?
M'uru #1 of ALL TIME! Then kael, then vaj or brutalus. Everything else wasn't that bad, its just those coordination fights that relied on too many people knowing what they are supposed to do. Brutalus just hit so damn hard and was a dps check at the same time. Most of those took about 5 weeks to take down with the 4 days 4hr schedule and had to add an extra 8hr day for m'UwU for 7 weeks...
What a joke. 8 hours? I play this GAME for fun not as a career. Lol, 8 hour days for 7 weeks and how much did you get paid during that time? Paid in pixels, at least you can eat peanuts.
After KT and Vashj, BT and Hyjal seemed like a stroll. Even after the nerfs they were hard for raiding guilds. As I remember we killed each of them only two or three times, just to have enough people for T6 raids.
100% correct. I think we only killed Vashj 4 or 5 times, Kael the same. Vashj was nearly a magnitude harder than kael. Brutallus was a magnitude harder than Vashj and Muru was mathematically impossible for most guilds.
I’ve played many TBC Pvt servers as a fury warrior and was always top 3-5 on the dps board. They aren’t as bad as people say. A better way to say it is, they require more time and skill to excel at the class. Either warrior or rogue. The other classes are just face roll.
oh stop with the "requires more skill" like you're doing calculus over there lmao. Any fight were you can stand there and spank the mob/boss you'll do fine. The problem is alot of TBC raids require moving out/away. That's why range will be better as a whole.
Warriors just scale really well with gear and a strong raid group with big threat tanks, high healing and high DPS. Same as in vanilla, except without worldbuffs and with more punishing mechanics for melee. So the only added difficulty comes from reacting fast to shit that could kill you, and positioning correctly to optimize cleave and sweeping strikes. Fury rotation is really simple but there is ofc a lot of minor stuff you can do to optimize it, and doing that consistently adds another layer of difficulty. The rest comes down to your raid being strong enough to use tactics that allow you to get higher uptime, and faster kills so your CD's account for a higher percentage of the fight.
I guess it wouldn't qualify as a road block for months but pre-nerf Magtheridon was a pretty big check right out the gate even though it was only T4. Could still be done but for the first tier of a new expansion it was a pretty big deal at the time until it got brought back in line with the tier.
Oh yeah it was, it was the first really hard boss guilds had to face in TBC, I didn't include it tho because it was nerfed quite fast and turned very easy after it was nerfed. It will be interesting to see in which state they will bring it for Classic TBC.
3:14 onwards, nope, not true. As soon as most of his bugs were solved top guilds started killing it (I was in Last Resort then and we got world 3rd or 4th just a day or 2 after). He wasn't nerfed again after at least 1 or 2 weeks later, by that time a lot of good guilds had already killed it. For people wondering about those bugs, well here are a few: - Unkillable Phoenix hatchlings eggs - Advisors ressing everytime a new one had to start - "Air phase" not working properly, therefore not having enough space to properly spread - Empty legendary loots - The advisor that used his gaze skill on someone ignoring his own mechanics and just going rampage. There were more, those are just some we experienced.
Like you mentioned, some of the things they patched were bugs. I think they should give us the bosses with those bugs fixed, but without any of the nerfs. TBC already has a limited life span, no need to make it shorter.
I remember wiping a considerable amount of times on Archimonde. That fight required a ton of coordination to maximize survival. Illidari Council I didn't find to be incredibly difficult- that fight also required a fair bit of coordination to keep each boss in check. It dragged on if your raid damage output was lacking, though...
I thought Illidari Council was pretty easy, for 90% of the raid it was: Don't stand in concecrate, don't stand in flamestrike, don't stand in blizzard, and don't stand near Zerevor, just dps Gathios the Shatterer.
I was raiding on RP server back in TBC and I dont remember any boss being very hard except if it was bugged. I remember Kil'Jeaden being hard once because our shamans were offline and we had to get some random shamans from trade chat for bloodlust.
I would have included Teron Gorefiend instead of Illidari Council. Some people simply couldn't deal with the ghost mechanics back then and it could affect anyone in the raid at random.
I remember whenever we got a new recruit and raided BT, he would always be the first ghost on his first run (which basically was the most crucial since after that the 1st ghost helped the 2nd etc etc).
The difference between individual player skill in Vanilla and TBC is massive, I think a lot of the fights will be harder then people expect simply because boss tuning was a lot more precise.
Because of the enrage timers, higher penalty for players dying, the added mechanical requirements and overall longer bossfights / raids are the reasons I think Tbc will be a huge sucess without needing to use pre nerfs.
I'm sure top guild ll clear Tk and Ssc in week 1, since they are available but locked after attunement. Nothing is hard if you have done it 100 times over.
yes but no one cares about private server or PTR sweating idiots, the game shouldn't be designed around them, and people should really stop using the response "lol x guild will clear it one hour" -- no one gives a shit about them, the fact is the majority (vast majority) in TBC classic struggled to kill Vash'j and Kael'thas until blizzard rolled out the post-nerf state.
im glad i experienced the overtuned raids on netherwing/atlantiss for tbc (and kronos for vanilla), i understand why blizzard wanted to dumb things down a bit but dont like it nevertheless even tho ive always been somewhat of a casual player myself
I winy aggree that archimonde is the Boss WHO Tores Apart guilds. For suite kael thas and vashj are. I would also say illidari council brutallus and muru
We had a beefy War tank for Sunwell. Problem was he had too much block and not enough BV% :( We ended up gearing one our Moonkins to bear tank along with the other druid tank just for this fight.
This idea that Warriors & Rogues becoming much better in later phases in technically true.. but it doesn’t change anything. Most people are convinced that melee DPS is inferior to ranged. I’m the sole remaining fury warrior left in my guild, I will not get a set of Glaives, and on some weeks I’ll be benched for an entire lockout. And it’s not like I can just go somewhere else, it’s virtually the same in every other guild.
It would also knock you back, usually out of range. In addition, because it affected everyone around you, you would usually have fo run away when you got the debuff timer.
And here we are a year later, my guild killed pre nerf KT on our second pull ever. Black temple and hyjal were a snooze. Looks like this stuff wasn't that hard after all we just sucked back then. Vanilla part 2
Please for the love of god make TBC harder than vanilla classic. I'm a healer and I'm half afk during raid since the raids dont do damage and die in 2 seconds.
@@ignacioperez5479 right but when blizzard saw bad guilds clearing Molten Core for the first time with zero wipes they should have stepped in and tweaked the difficulty a bit. Keeping it true to vanilla is great and all but if the bosses are a joke raiding gets pretty boring very fast
I'd really like if they would release the game in the patches that theyve released it in 2007. From my understanding blizzard only had 1.12 to recreate classic. They did not have the Data before, so as theyve said they have all the data after that. So in Theory it is possible that they release each patch so every player can feel the expansion as it was back then. But knowing blizzard, they will porbably just do the same as they did in classic and release 2.4.3 but gate the content .. its fine for me but i would actually like to see the patches
I remember Vashj and Kael'thas both being more difficult then anything in Black Temple or Mount Hyjal. That said. I was playing in a social raiding guild .... with kids, dads, mothers and grandpa's ... So if we were able to kill these 'difficult' bosses im 10000% sure when classic TBC comes arround it will be ABSOLUTELY destroyed.... a wipe video of Kael'thas can actually be found in on channel as 'proof' ...
What really tore guilds apart in BC was all the drama involved in the drop from 40 to 25 man raiding plus splitting further into 10 man groups for Karazahn. Also, if they pull the same crap as Classic and release it with the final patch nothing will be hard except maybe Sunwell for the "normal" guilds (as opposed to the hardcores chasing firsts) just like Classic and Naxx being the only raid causing any issues.
If they released the nerfed versions, TBC classic will be a complete, utter failure compared to what we have now in classic. If they want dead servers sure. I definitely won't play it if they released the nerfed versions.
The t5 content was really fun before they nerfed it. Vashj was legitimately challenging with the MC you couldn’t CC… one wipe our healers were getting back to back MC and just healing the shit out of the boss. I think I had close to 350k healing ok vash lol
Retail version of brutallus is not hard.. we were just bad back then and didn't optimise comps properly. You don't need full t6 to do 29k raid dps. In full t6 with the info we know raids will be doing 40k+ DPS when they get to that boss in classic TBC
You are talking about 5 shamans and 20lws in raid as in its something unheard of and crazy hardcore. I guarantee you every semi-hc guild in classic tbc will do that for every boss.
As far as I understand, they nerfed all the raids prior to sunwell by an additional 20% on the last patch. I'm fine with them implementing the first couple of nerfs to "fix" certain boss encounters or make them feasible, just don't overdo it with that last patch added on top
I dont think any fight would be a as difficult like in 2004-2007, nowadays the information for every fight and every detail is easily found in the internet and while the bosses itself could be difficult, the amount of effort put in those bosses will not be the same as back then like being stuck in a boss for weeks We'll see when it launches, maybe it's like in Vanilla and guilds stay in the same boss for 1 month
Why not stack more warlocks for brutallis? Each warlock increased the damage of all other warlocks by a good amount. So I can see all sage classes being warlock besides a single sp
Honestly it was tough to find geared warlocks. Back then hardly anyone had true alts on my server. That late in the expansion finding skilled and experienced raiders was difficult. So many people quit because of Kael and Vashj. Then a good part of the community just did arena. Stacking warlocks and hunters was the only way for most guilds to kill brutallus. We all levelled drums and we still weren't close. It was just an overtuned fight and realistically out of reach for most guilds. It'll be different in classic TBC, because people will level hunter and warlock alts in anticipation.
We never killed him. Guild broke up. We were a US top 250 guild too. I transferred to like a top US 50 guild and did a few attempts on Muru and quit the game after seeing how hard it was. Never did kill Muru or KJ. I think only a few thousand players ever killed that prenerf Muru or KJ..
I have an old wow account from 2005 I believe. If I pay the monthly fee will all of my old vanilla characters be in classic or tbc? My very first character was an undead warlock named Pwnsauce. I tried to search for my old character but can’t find anything. I miss so much about the vanilla except all the grinding, it was really bad lol. Anyone wanna hang out in front of karazan smoke a J and have a beer? Lol I really miss Kara 🥸 Ty 😌
I believe the highest DPS parse in TBC was a hunter on Brutallus 4k I believe, they were swapping shamans into the hunter grp and rotating drums, just for the lulz.
@@lekvar8032 All the raids except Sunwell will be a joke in that case; the only possible issue would be rushing into Hyjal/BT before your group is geared enough to hit the required numbers...
Hi, I just paused the video at 9;10, i remember you needed like avg about 1600-2000dps/player in the raid to kill Brutallus, that is counted 25 players so the dps in reality had to do x2 that to outweigh the healer/tanks.
Calculation was simple: average DPS needed was Brutallus's HPs/6 minutes enrage timer/number of dpsers. It all came down to how many healers you needed to keep the 2 tanks alive, less healers in the fight, lower required average dps per player.
well nower days u can take them enhancer shamans for melee DPS :O they deal crazy dmg at brutalus and they buff your melee camp. nice video but they are new tactics, muru just gets maned down by 15 Warlocks ;O
I really hope that Blizzard won't ruin TBC which is IMO by far better then classic.The only raid in classic which I was really happy about was Naxx.Seeing that even people with 5+ years of private servers experience were wiping on some encounters was epic and the only reason they were able to actually finish that content in 1 go was due to WORLD FUCKING BUFFS which is the worst thing in classic.Now imagin if there were no world buffs,how many guild would be able to "steam roll" through all those bosses?It would have been much more challenging,that's for sure. Now ,classic wow is not about difficulty,but still Blizzard could have at least tried to give people a bit more challenging content,so it would feel a bit more rewarding(like clearing Naxx for the 1 time).They have an option to make it right with TBC(progressive patches, prenerf content,items etc etc),but I doubt they will bother and if they are gonna release TBC with like a Lich King prepatch or 2.4.3 Patch with all bosses and encounters nerfed to shit,no attunments,30 lvl mounts etc etc-I personally won't play TBC at all.Let's hope Blizzard will learn a thing or two from Classic and at least try not to ruin one of their best expansions.
I want the raids to be pre nerf state. I want to hear the top guilds having trouble for weeks. By then the raids would sound scary and when you then finally beat a boss it would feel like the best kill of a boss ever.
I think its unfair to have bosses like lady vash and Kael thas those bosses were bugged as shit. And Muru I'm certain Blizzard will not use prenerf numbers
Seems Blizzard has and needs better game testers... I have sent them emails, updates, bug issues, supported the game for 10+ years...and still have not been allowed to test and help their expansions. I always wondered why...but..then as I get older..I realized.. Blizzard is a large Corp company...they do what they want. I hope ShadowLands brings back a challenge...because they are rich enough to provide what the community wants. Shadowlands is your last chance for me Blizzard! Rawr! :)
Find out whether these bosses will actually be hard in Classic TBC for modern players : ruclips.net/video/u5-NEImx5Cs/видео.html
i just want to step in karazhan again :) by far my most fun experience as a kid playing this game.
i hope blizzard has all the numbers for the pre-nerf fights, id love to see top guilds struggle for a few days lol
Even with pre-nerf fights it is going to be easy compared to private servers tuning.
I hope so too, and the point isn't to have a 1 to 1 experience of how hard it was back in 2007, because that's just not going to happen, but I think the point is to have a raid that is at least challenging for a vast majority of people for a least a week or two of progression.
@@pastis1378 no true but i think it’d be funny to see the best of the best take like 3 or 4 days instead of one shotting everything
@@GaeFootballClub I am playing on a private server, and it will be true. It took us 3 nights to kill Vashj 2.0 which had almost 10m hp and the mob having two time the hp they had on retail. Brutallus on retail had around 11m hp which required 32k raid dps to kill it while on a private server he had 17m hp and required 45k raid dps and we kill it in 1 night. It is just going to be that easy for top private server guilds.
@@GaeFootballClub Top guilds are going to take 3-4 hours not days, they already know everything about the fights, there is no learning to be done.
I tanked as a prot warrior in in TBC and had so much fun! Sure wipe nights sucked but the win was oh so sweet. Hell we wiped on the opening trash in the eye for weeks until our gear caught up. Trash mobs requiring sheep or banish... AoE was dangerous back then. Thunderclap would break CC but was so important for a tank. I loved TBC
IMO, Blizzard should release the raids pre nerf and keep the difficulty on hard core
@craig dunlop So true
What hardcore? Even prenerfed bosses are rather easy esp. with 2.0 design, people were just shit back than!
@@Stutzi152 Spoken like a true warrior...
Vashj and Kael were both unkillable mathematically pre nerf KEKW.
@@kalsizzle But that's part of the fun..spending 90% of your raid wiping to trash lol.
There were guilds that cleared KT a day after Nihilhum. A lot of the fight was learned before 2.1 by the world top guilds so they could kill it relatively fast once it was fixed and nerfed. It was essentially the same with Vashj (the two 2.0 kills of here were the result of exploits). Curse kept up with Nihilum for pretty much all of BT but got stuck on Illidan. They got there on the same day and took almost 3 weeks to kill him. Not sure why. Nihilum killed Illidan in a day.
Nihilum probs found a bug/exploit
Our guild got stuck on brutallus because we did not have an optimal raid makeup and lacked the dps(4 shadow priests only 2 hunters) but the top guild's on our server all got stopped by muru. I went and tried the fight on a friends account back in the day because he was so fed up with wiping and let me tell you that was the hardest boss fight hands down
Yep. I quit the game after seeing a few attempts on Muru.
me : happily soloing along, never worrying about gear. just avoiding all the drama and enjoying the great music...
I remember leading Black temple.. we were just starting to progress, hunters and good tanks were so important in this fight.
TBC was the only expansion that i raided hardcore, so i would like to leave some comments.
1. Archimonde was one of my favourite fights because of the focus on personal responsibility. Unfortunately, there was an abusable bug that allowed a lot of guilds to cheat their way to victory. Players could stack on top of a fallen tree trunk where the abilities would not affect them.
2. As you may notice on the Vashj kill, everyone in the Method raid was Soulstoned through some trickery that was quickly patched out after their kill. The boss was so overtuned at release that she was not killable otherwise.
3. By the time the Sunwell Plateau got released having Leatherworking on everyone and 5 Shamans was common practice. It was not specifically done for this encounter.
4. Brutallus was an enraging design choice. He was the hardest gear check in the entire expansion, but he was a Demon, meaning that the amount of Warglaives of Azzinoth sets a guild had the luck to find directly impacted the difficulty of the fight.
Also, Rogues were a strong class for the entirety of TBC, fury warriors, not so much.
5. The Illidari council was a joke. A lootbox. When Method Killed them they thought it was just phase 1 and that they would get back up like the Kael'Thas fight. The hardest bosses in BT were the Reliquary of Souls, Mother Shahraz (who got parryhaste removed from her because she would randomly instagib tanks) and Illidan himself.
Some bosses that deserved to make the list were Nightbane, Gruul and Magtheridon.
Same here. Last time I was hardcore raider was BC. Archimode was one of my favorite fights. I was a tree druid. So it felt nice using travel form to decurse and run from fire. Lady V was my guilds toughest boss. She took us months to down. As for Brut we were the lucky guild with three glaive sets by the time we got to him. And our 4th was completed by twins lol. Every guild hated us during Sunwell.
Lady Vashj took us forever. A guild since Vanilla almost broke apart because of her. Took us 3 months but we did it.
Still can find the guild first kill video. If you enjoy pixel videos haha
ruclips.net/video/yk66M7KWnII/видео.html
It’s important to say everyone who got knocked up had to time a special ability to not die on the fall. One person misses it one time and everyone dies. My guild kicked like 40 people on this boss fight
No, Blizzard has been very hands off. They will likely release the last patch, with gated content just like they did in Classic Vanilla. I would love to see the harder content, and for them to go through the actual patches as time progresses, nerfing if we even still need it with today's skill/knowledge level, but I doubt we will see it.
well they did do pre-nerf states, and the majority couldn't even kill KT or vash'j before they nerfed them :D
I feel if they leave everything pre nerf but give us the 2.4.3 fixes and class changes while staggering the content like the patches, then it will please the largest crowd possible.
One year later: top 6 Raid bosses guilds TORE apart in Classic TBC.
Yep probably what will happen lol
I miss tbc so Much, Thats my childhood
Never got the chance to experience tbc so I'm definitely going to try it out this time ✌
Eredar Twins was a road block, it took us longer to kill them than M'uru.
I remember how Blizzard essentially trolled us with their loot.
Killing the Shadow one first would yield less loot, so we all assumed that was easier and tried that order, which turned out to be twice as hard!
That cost my guild a week of raids...
Twins was easy when we figured out you could just stack the raid up top and move out with conflag
Back then my guild only struggled and finally quit trying killing M'uru. Kael'thas was hard at start due to a ton of bugs. In general al the other bosses mentioned (and Kael'thas when bugs were fixed) didn't give us a lot of trouble aka 5-6 wipes on Archimonde,2 on Brutalus and I remember Lady Vashj being killed on 3rd try.
I remember modifying simple addon to help on Vashj fight, simple flashing screen when player got some orb that prevented movement was enough to slap her.
You mean, enough to slap her after the nerfs. Before them it took 25 Soulstones for anyone to kill her
I don't play WoW anymore, but back then my rogue was killing it TBC. T6 full, both Warglaives and max Leatherworking. Also all the best consumables. Was always top 2 dmg dealers in my guild in the main raid. We finished all the content, even though we weren't even close to firsts or something. We were just a very good guild which conquered all the content. How is it nowadays?
M'uru #1 of ALL TIME! Then kael, then vaj or brutalus. Everything else wasn't that bad, its just those coordination fights that relied on too many people knowing what they are supposed to do. Brutalus just hit so damn hard and was a dps check at the same time. Most of those took about 5 weeks to take down with the 4 days 4hr schedule and had to add an extra 8hr day for m'UwU for 7 weeks...
M’uru killed my guild
I never thought of KT or Vashj being hard fights, just bugged and unable to be killed due to the bugs.
What a joke. 8 hours? I play this GAME for fun not as a career. Lol, 8 hour days for 7 weeks and how much did you get paid during that time? Paid in pixels, at least you can eat peanuts.
After KT and Vashj, BT and Hyjal seemed like a stroll. Even after the nerfs they were hard for raiding guilds. As I remember we killed each of them only two or three times, just to have enough people for T6 raids.
My Guild got hard stuck on T6, constantly ppl leaving then we had to attune new members...it's was a shit show lol.
100% correct. I think we only killed Vashj 4 or 5 times, Kael the same. Vashj was nearly a magnitude harder than kael. Brutallus was a magnitude harder than Vashj and Muru was mathematically impossible for most guilds.
@@garneroutlaw1 ..was nearly unbeatable.
I’ve played many TBC Pvt servers as a fury warrior and was always top 3-5 on the dps board. They aren’t as bad as people say. A better way to say it is, they require more time and skill to excel at the class. Either warrior or rogue. The other classes are just face roll.
You know your stuff, warriors are apex predators.
oh stop with the "requires more skill" like you're doing calculus over there lmao. Any fight were you can stand there and spank the mob/boss you'll do fine. The problem is alot of TBC raids require moving out/away. That's why range will be better as a whole.
Warriors just scale really well with gear and a strong raid group with big threat tanks, high healing and high DPS. Same as in vanilla, except without worldbuffs and with more punishing mechanics for melee. So the only added difficulty comes from reacting fast to shit that could kill you, and positioning correctly to optimize cleave and sweeping strikes. Fury rotation is really simple but there is ofc a lot of minor stuff you can do to optimize it, and doing that consistently adds another layer of difficulty. The rest comes down to your raid being strong enough to use tactics that allow you to get higher uptime, and faster kills so your CD's account for a higher percentage of the fight.
From what I have seen, if there is any class rotation that requires skill, it's hunters.
I guess it wouldn't qualify as a road block for months but pre-nerf Magtheridon was a pretty big check right out the gate even though it was only T4. Could still be done but for the first tier of a new expansion it was a pretty big deal at the time until it got brought back in line with the tier.
Oh yeah it was, it was the first really hard boss guilds had to face in TBC, I didn't include it tho because it was nerfed quite fast and turned very easy after it was nerfed. It will be interesting to see in which state they will bring it for Classic TBC.
3:14 onwards, nope, not true.
As soon as most of his bugs were solved top guilds started killing it (I was in Last Resort then and we got world 3rd or 4th just a day or 2 after).
He wasn't nerfed again after at least 1 or 2 weeks later, by that time a lot of good guilds had already killed it.
For people wondering about those bugs, well here are a few:
- Unkillable Phoenix hatchlings eggs
- Advisors ressing everytime a new one had to start
- "Air phase" not working properly, therefore not having enough space to properly spread
- Empty legendary loots
- The advisor that used his gaze skill on someone ignoring his own mechanics and just going rampage.
There were more, those are just some we experienced.
Like you mentioned, some of the things they patched were bugs. I think they should give us the bosses with those bugs fixed, but without any of the nerfs. TBC already has a limited life span, no need to make it shorter.
Seeing how we got patch "1.12",I'd be really shocked to find out they released the game (AGAIN) with out "proper tuning"..
Around the corner
+
On the horizon
=
Around the horizon
5 shamans and leather working is already a minimum requirement on most private servers. You can bet your ass it’ll be on retail.
I call shamans bloodlust bots for a reason
@@thenever2957 what reason is that ?
I remember wiping a considerable amount of times on Archimonde. That fight required a ton of coordination to maximize survival.
Illidari Council I didn't find to be incredibly difficult- that fight also required a fair bit of coordination to keep each boss in check. It dragged on if your raid damage output was lacking, though...
Cant wait to get TBC classic
Welcome aboard :p
I thought Illidari Council was pretty easy, for 90% of the raid it was: Don't stand in concecrate, don't stand in flamestrike, don't stand in blizzard, and don't stand near Zerevor, just dps Gathios the Shatterer.
And have a pro rogue that can kick.
you realize you list 4 things? That was more than 2007 players could handle
the average WoW gamer struggles to stand outside of 1 bad zone, you just listed 4, therefore its a hard fight for the average guild loool
I was raiding on RP server back in TBC and I dont remember any boss being very hard except if it was bugged. I remember Kil'Jeaden being hard once because our shamans were offline and we had to get some random shamans from trade chat for bloodlust.
I was on Scarlet Crusade and that story sounds very familiar.
I would have included Teron Gorefiend instead of Illidari Council. Some people simply couldn't deal with the ghost mechanics back then and it could affect anyone in the raid at random.
I remember whenever we got a new recruit and raided BT, he would always be the first ghost on his first run (which basically was the most crucial since after that the 1st ghost helped the 2nd etc etc).
Kael thas and vashj were tough.
I never did black temple and don’t remember archimonde being a difficult fight
Archimonde was just don't die to fire or fall damage and he's killed.
The difference between individual player skill in Vanilla and TBC is massive, I think a lot of the fights will be harder then people expect simply because boss tuning was a lot more precise.
Because of the enrage timers, higher penalty for players dying, the added mechanical requirements and overall longer bossfights / raids are the reasons I think Tbc will be a huge sucess without needing to use pre nerfs.
CANT WAIT FOR THE ENTIRE EXPANSION TO BE CLEARED IN 2 DAYS
2:05 I wonder why the fight was hard lol.
Hahaha
Actually, the first one that came to mind was M'uru, not Kael'thas.
Only a handful of guilds reached Muru
I remember we weren‘t able to kill the first boss in gruul (the one high king). Now in tbc classic I clear it every week with a random pug
cause its nerfed as for babies now
I'm sure top guild ll clear Tk and Ssc in week 1, since they are available but locked after attunement. Nothing is hard if you have done it 100 times over.
yes but no one cares about private server or PTR sweating idiots, the game shouldn't be designed around them, and people should really stop using the response "lol x guild will clear it one hour" -- no one gives a shit about them, the fact is the majority (vast majority) in TBC classic struggled to kill Vash'j and Kael'thas until blizzard rolled out the post-nerf state.
im glad i experienced the overtuned raids on netherwing/atlantiss for tbc (and kronos for vanilla), i understand why blizzard wanted to dumb things down a bit but dont like it nevertheless even tho ive always been somewhat of a casual player myself
I winy aggree that archimonde is the Boss WHO Tores Apart guilds. For suite kael thas and vashj are. I would also say illidari council brutallus and muru
Really found out who was dull or not in mags
We had a beefy War tank for Sunwell. Problem was he had too much block and not enough BV% :(
We ended up gearing one our Moonkins to bear tank along with the other druid tank just for this fight.
This idea that Warriors & Rogues becoming much better in later phases in technically true.. but it doesn’t change anything. Most people are convinced that melee DPS is inferior to ranged.
I’m the sole remaining fury warrior left in my guild, I will not get a set of Glaives, and on some weeks I’ll be benched for an entire lockout. And it’s not like I can just go somewhere else, it’s virtually the same in every other guild.
Drums can only be use once per 2 min for the whole 5 man party. Only one of the 5 need it in each group.
U gonna grow fast, keep it up!
Thanks, you too!
I think when you were tossed to the air by Archimonde, you could cast instant spells.
It would also knock you back, usually out of range. In addition, because it affected everyone around you, you would usually have fo run away when you got the debuff timer.
... Just until they were nerfed to shit in Classic TBC and everybody thought the encounters were a joke.
And here we are a year later, my guild killed pre nerf KT on our second pull ever. Black temple and hyjal were a snooze. Looks like this stuff wasn't that hard after all we just sucked back then. Vanilla part 2
Please for the love of god make TBC harder than vanilla classic. I'm a healer and I'm half afk during raid since the raids dont do damage and die in 2 seconds.
The thing is, classic was like vanilla. The difference is now we have all the info about everything,
@@ignacioperez5479 right but when blizzard saw bad guilds clearing Molten Core for the first time with zero wipes they should have stepped in and tweaked the difficulty a bit. Keeping it true to vanilla is great and all but if the bosses are a joke raiding gets pretty boring very fast
@@adamcapwell1557 thats the point. Everyone wanted vanilla with no changes, they give us vanilla with no changes
Honourable mention: Teron Gorefiend and his shrimps
I'd really like if they would release the game in the patches that theyve released it in 2007. From my understanding blizzard only had 1.12 to recreate classic. They did not have the Data before, so as theyve said they have all the data after that. So in Theory it is possible that they release each patch so every player can feel the expansion as it was back then.
But knowing blizzard, they will porbably just do the same as they did in classic and release 2.4.3 but gate the content .. its fine for me but i would actually like to see the patches
That was just an excuse they trotted out so they could be lazy, BC will come out with the last patch and all the early content will be a joke...
I remember Vashj and Kael'thas both being more difficult then anything in Black Temple or Mount Hyjal.
That said. I was playing in a social raiding guild .... with kids, dads, mothers and grandpa's ... So if we were able to kill these 'difficult' bosses im 10000% sure when classic TBC comes arround it will be ABSOLUTELY destroyed....
a wipe video of Kael'thas can actually be found in on channel as 'proof' ...
What really tore guilds apart in BC was all the drama involved in the drop from 40 to 25 man raiding plus splitting further into 10 man groups for Karazahn. Also, if they pull the same crap as Classic and release it with the final patch nothing will be hard except maybe Sunwell for the "normal" guilds (as opposed to the hardcores chasing firsts) just like Classic and Naxx being the only raid causing any issues.
If they released the nerfed versions, TBC classic will be a complete, utter failure compared to what we have now in classic. If they want dead servers sure. I definitely won't play it if they released the nerfed versions.
So any official information on expansion tbc date?
The t5 content was really fun before they nerfed it. Vashj was legitimately challenging with the MC you couldn’t CC… one wipe our healers were getting back to back MC and just healing the shit out of the boss. I think I had close to 350k healing ok vash lol
Bruttallus is only a problem if you don’t clear bt with the same group constantly along with hyjal cause how high total dps had too be .
Retail version of brutallus is not hard.. we were just bad back then and didn't optimise comps properly. You don't need full t6 to do 29k raid dps. In full t6 with the info we know raids will be doing 40k+ DPS when they get to that boss in classic TBC
6 raid bosses that tore guilds apart - Pre-nerf sunwell
You are talking about 5 shamans and 20lws in raid as in its something unheard of and crazy hardcore. I guarantee you every semi-hc guild in classic tbc will do that for every boss.
As far as I understand, they nerfed all the raids prior to sunwell by an additional 20% on the last patch. I'm fine with them implementing the first couple of nerfs to "fix" certain boss encounters or make them feasible, just don't overdo it with that last patch added on top
think sunwell will be the same unexpected difficulty with naxx 40
Depends what is in the raid. I’m going to guess most guilds will shaman stack. Lust/hero is the win factor for Sunwell.
My hope is they totally randomize certain things so people can’t pre-pare
What... They ain't gonna make random changes to bosses...
it won't be as hard as it used to because of the new generation of players coming in and etc. Which is not bad, just dropping me 2 cents here
Wasn't Kael unkillable purely on the basis of the tanking weapons cd being too long to actually cover every one shot ?.
My favorite part of this video is when he calls Mu'ru a simple 2 phase fight lol 7:40
Simple, but its not easy xd
I dont think any fight would be a as difficult like in 2004-2007, nowadays the information for every fight and every detail is easily found in the internet and while the bosses itself could be difficult, the amount of effort put in those bosses will not be the same as back then like being stuck in a boss for weeks
We'll see when it launches, maybe it's like in Vanilla and guilds stay in the same boss for 1 month
Why not stack more warlocks for brutallis? Each warlock increased the damage of all other warlocks by a good amount. So I can see all sage classes being warlock besides a single sp
Honestly it was tough to find geared warlocks. Back then hardly anyone had true alts on my server. That late in the expansion finding skilled and experienced raiders was difficult. So many people quit because of Kael and Vashj. Then a good part of the community just did arena. Stacking warlocks and hunters was the only way for most guilds to kill brutallus. We all levelled drums and we still weren't close. It was just an overtuned fight and realistically out of reach for most guilds. It'll be different in classic TBC, because people will level hunter and warlock alts in anticipation.
Brutalus was the wall for my guild,we just didn't have the damage,we managed to kill him only when the new talents from wrath came out.
We never killed him. Guild broke up. We were a US top 250 guild too. I transferred to like a top US 50 guild and did a few attempts on Muru and quit the game after seeing how hard it was. Never did kill Muru or KJ. I think only a few thousand players ever killed that prenerf Muru or KJ..
What was the point after Wrath released? Revenge? Lol
Illidaricouncil was such a joke back than. Prenerf mother was a blocker. After that council was pretty much freeloot.
This is a good video, but come on! Illidari council is not even in the same league with muru/kaelthas
Kael is not in the same league as Mu'ru
Nice video, more plz
Thank you, there will be more !
Around the horizon? Yeah, that is definitely a saying.
i definitely rmeember that lady vashj fight ... hated that boss so much
None of this was difficult except muru and brutallus imo.
they should do another phase system for tbc
Considering that raid DPS in classic tbc will be already 30k in t5 gear with all the info we have.. bosses will die super quick.
Pretty sure the max parse ever recorded in TBC was 4k.
@@seanbailey8545 raid DPS. Not single DPS.
Yes I killed The Eye Boss after 5 hrs it was glorious. Raid did break up after so I never did BT
I have an old wow account from 2005 I believe. If I pay the monthly fee will all of my old vanilla characters be in classic or tbc?
My very first character was an undead warlock named Pwnsauce.
I tried to search for my old character but can’t find anything.
I miss so much about the vanilla except all the grinding, it was really bad lol.
Anyone wanna hang out in front of karazan smoke a J and have a beer? Lol I really miss Kara 🥸
Ty 😌
I personally like a struggle, but i don't think it should be so hard that only the top 0.1% get the kill.
in our guild in TBC hunters was the dps kings on brutallus !
I believe the highest DPS parse in TBC was a hunter on Brutallus 4k I believe, they were swapping shamans into the hunter grp and rotating drums, just for the lulz.
PLEASE un-nerfed. Classic was 100% the casual experience, we deserve pre-nerf bosses to push ourselves for perfection.
Classic content isnt really that hard. BC raiding is definitely more difficult than classic even the entry raids
@@thenever2957 doesnt matter, if they do nerfed bosses with 2.4.3 classes the first raids WILL BE A JOKE.
@@lekvar8032 yeah you right
@@lekvar8032 All the raids except Sunwell will be a joke in that case; the only possible issue would be rushing into Hyjal/BT before your group is geared enough to hit the required numbers...
i didnt think council was the hardest we spent more time on bloodboil than this :/
also they should release it like it was day 1 excluding bugs
i can agree with the list .. i hope they buff the raid bosses to make it more challenging ..
Hi, I just paused the video at 9;10, i remember you needed like avg about 1600-2000dps/player in the raid to kill Brutallus, that is counted 25 players so the dps in reality had to do x2 that to outweigh the healer/tanks.
Calculation was simple: average DPS needed was Brutallus's HPs/6 minutes enrage timer/number of dpsers. It all came down to how many healers you needed to keep the 2 tanks alive, less healers in the fight, lower required average dps per player.
well nower days u can take them enhancer shamans for melee DPS :O they deal crazy dmg at brutalus and they buff your melee camp. nice video but they are new tactics, muru just gets maned down by 15 Warlocks ;O
I say give us the origianal TBC experience. We have youtube now. We can share knowledge.
I really hope that Blizzard won't ruin TBC which is IMO by far better then classic.The only raid in classic which I was really happy about was Naxx.Seeing that even people with 5+ years of private servers experience were wiping on some encounters was epic and the only reason they were able to actually finish that content in 1 go was due to WORLD FUCKING BUFFS which is the worst thing in classic.Now imagin if there were no world buffs,how many guild would be able to "steam roll" through all those bosses?It would have been much more challenging,that's for sure. Now ,classic wow is not about difficulty,but still Blizzard could have at least tried to give people a bit more challenging content,so it would feel a bit more rewarding(like clearing Naxx for the 1 time).They have an option to make it right with TBC(progressive patches, prenerf content,items etc etc),but I doubt they will bother and if they are gonna release TBC with like a Lich King prepatch or 2.4.3 Patch with all bosses and encounters nerfed to shit,no attunments,30 lvl mounts etc etc-I personally won't play TBC at all.Let's hope Blizzard will learn a thing or two from Classic and at least try not to ruin one of their best expansions.
at this point who wants the last patch available and the whole expansion without changes?
I want the raids to be pre nerf state. I want to hear the top guilds having trouble for weeks. By then the raids would sound scary and when you then finally beat a boss it would feel like the best kill of a boss ever.
I think its unfair to have bosses like lady vash and Kael thas those bosses were bugged as shit. And Muru I'm certain Blizzard will not use prenerf numbers
Seems Blizzard has and needs better game testers...
I have sent them emails, updates, bug issues, supported the game for 10+ years...and still have not been allowed to test and help their expansions.
I always wondered why...but..then as I get older..I realized..
Blizzard is a large Corp company...they do what they want.
I hope ShadowLands brings back a challenge...because they are rich enough to provide what the community wants.
Shadowlands is your last chance for me Blizzard! Rawr!
:)
It looks like they are bringing prenerf bosses.
post bugs but pre nerfs... top guilds will still down the first night but will be a struggle for 95% of the player base.
how? when I farm Alar I just 1 shot
If endless wow and Classic taught us anything. If these won't be overtuned, they will be jokes. even M'uru.
yo classic WoW curios. Sup dude
Pre-nerf where it wasn't a horrible buggy reason it wasnt a horrible bug that made it unkillable