M140i Road & Track Upgrades // Part 1: Quaife LSD
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2019
- As the first of our upgrades to the M140i, we gave it the slippy diff it was crying out for by fitting a Quaife ATB type LSD.
The diff was supplied and fitted by Dave Welsh, who comes highly recommended and can be found driving through the side window of his F80 M3 at tracks in the North West!
In addition to the more subjective improvements covered in the video, the Quaife, or any LSD, will improve traction, both in a straight line and the bends in all conditions. It even helps in the snow!
Feel free to ask any questions you might have or make suggestions for further modifications or videos you'd like to see, 
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Just found this series, thoroughly excited about following the journey!
Cheers Hasib, it was thoroughly enjoyable to evaluate the car at each point and then try and improve further. The ‘finished’ project was simply excellent!
Dave installed a Quaife on my M140i and you really do notice it straight away. Wow. The grip in the dry is astonishing! #GetADiff
#getadiff love it!!!
Great review thanks…I’m going down the quaiffe route with my 340i…..I think the best description for this is wiggly backend, container predictable control of the rear sounds sublime
It makes such a difference, and improves the drive around the bends no end too. Just in the process of getting a Quaife sorted for my latest e86 Coupe, on e of the first and most important mods, even without the power of the B58. 👍
Im having a used quaife fitted soon, it has about 20k miles on it, but with a lifetime warranty, im not worried. I drive 25k a year, all weathers and have a set of winters ready to go on. Im mainly buying it to help keep me going throughout the winter, that ill be able to maximise low grip situations and have a chance of getting out of any “situations” i might get myself into!
David Hobson misses this comment David but it sounds like you know exactly what you’re doing! Hope you’re enjoying the Quaife!
We’ve not had much of a reason to rely on our winters this year have we! 😂
I ordered Quaife for my 535i f10, cant wait to get my hands on it. My car is heavely tuned and it spins one wheel all the time at the moment.
Sande Halonen congrats, I bet that makes for a brilliant cruiser that can go sideways when you want! 🙌
I guess this is what i'm feeling all the time, driving my 240i spiritly. It feels like a handicap on 1 leg, for lack of better words.
That’s a funny way of putting it but I agree!! Always feels like it’s trying to do something it just can’t! 👍
Mine has the MP Drexler and like you say it transforms the car. It feels as if a hand is pushing you from behind and it feels so much better than the floaty open diff.
C8UER could agree more! Enjoy yours! 💪
Nice
vid! A bit of additional info - the Quaife ATB is able to bias up to 80% of torque to the wheel with more grip, whereas I think the M Performance LSD (made by Drexler) offers a 25%/30% locking effect. So in theory the Quaife should provide more grip in most situations and does it in a more progressive manner, rather than locking. It's awesome.
Great info from the BMW masters! Appreciate the comment. 😊
What if 1 wheel is in the air ? Thought the only 2 that worked in those situations was m-perf & wavetrack was specifically developed to get around this weak point.
Chris Murphy I think people latch on to this ‘weakness’ as ammo and throw it around as a significant issue. In reality it very rarely impacts use. I’ve had a number of track cars with torque biasing diffs and they’re really never a limiting factor until you’re racing and even then very competitive. Yes a well specified plated diff would likely be quicker on track, but for the huge majority of these cars any of the Quaife/Wavetrack/Drexler diffs will perform so similarly that you would have to be a MUCH better driver than most and me to discern any difference.
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS It has to make enough of a difference or else Wavetrack wouldnt be in business.
I agree most folk would struggle to tell the difference tho.
@@chrismurphy6285 not really, they would just need to convince people it does. As you say most people couldn't tell. They're made in the US so can sell to US based customers at a cheaper price than the Quaife, I think that's helped them the most. The zero-load thing is a bit of a gimmick in our opinion. Quaife are a huge organisation that has been going for decades, I'm sure they would have dealt with that 'issue' if they felt it was worthwhile.
A mate of mine got a 340i recently, I'll be showing him this vid!
I remember hearing at one point that the BMW diff upgrade was hilariously cheap from the dealer- shame its no longer the case:(
Matt Teee yeah it would be a great upgrade for the 340 no doubt, lovely cars! 👌
With some shopping around I think they can be had for sub-2k from a dealer, though that’s definitely not hilariously cheap! 😩
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS did you code out any electronic driver aids? Or is it just a straight installl? Cheers
Hello, amazing video! I would like to see more track footage about the Quaife lsd if its possible to do some drifting or small sliding bcus some say Quaife lsd can perform like normal open diff sometimes. Thank you
Just on when you mention that it got more expensive owing to the welded units, it started with the original 135i coupe. It used to be simple and cheap for the 130i.
Thanks for the info! The 130i must make quite a good track car base in that case for sensible money...
Great video mate have you got a link to this guys garage in Liverpool? Cheers
DRW Performance - Dave Welsh, cracking chaps there 👍
How does the diff respond in other driving modes? Is TC interference similar? Considering one of these with Litchfield.
Tom Cox TC interference is drastically reduced in all driving modes with the improved grip. I’ve since added wider rear tyres too so some of the grip will come from them - though that will be more marginal. 👍
Would have been good to see more footage of it on track
Stephen Stewart Circuit:Driver Will said the same! Best pull my finger out for the next part! 😂👍
I have a 2016 230i which makes 252hp and 260 lb-ft of torque. Do you think the quaife LSD is a worthwhile upgrade? I thought it would be a good upgrade to do before I have the car tuned sometime next year, at that point it should make 305 to 310hp and on tighter turns I can already feel the inside wheel slipping with stock power.
Kunle Fadare for me yes, a great upgrade regardless of power and especially once you up it with a map. We use similar torque biasing diffs on humble MX5s with much less power and the benefits are still apparent in road and track. 👍
Is it worth adding it if you never do track days and only use it as a commuter and weekend fun?
In my opinion yes, as the car doesn't feel like a 'proper' rear wheel drive car should without. That said, I think it can be quite personal, some people won't really notice it at all, whereas others, particularly those with a history of driving RWD cars think it's transformational.
It's a good chunk of money so perhaps trying to find a way of driving a car with one fitted first is an idea?
Amen!
Sadly it’s one of those things that’s really hard to articulate and you can never truly appreciate until you drive one with a diff fitted!
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Yes it is sad. I see so many people that buy Non "M" BMW's then they list the Mod's they want to do to them like make them faster with tuning or exhaust or handle better like coil overs (which usually cost more than an LSD) etc. But out of all of them they just don't seem to know or have the experience to know that number one should be the LSD. (For those that always ask me "What is an LSD? It stands for "Limited Slip Differential" now go tell your friends and so on and so on LOL). Then they wonder why their car won't do the drifts and slides they see being done on "The Grand Tour" Or where ever. Thanks for the reply.
Hi mate, if you want to try an M140i with Bilstein/Eibach B12 suspension setup, let me know and you can drive mine.
Nick Anderson that’s very generous Nick, that would probably be my first choice of suspension for a road car. I’d love to try yours if we can make it work, I’ll drop you a message. 🙌
What's the silver thing on the bottom of your seatbelt?
Locost Turbo it’s a CG lock mate, locks the hips in nicely with a standard seatbelt. They’re worth their weight in gold, I’ll cover it in a future vid! 👍
Keen eye.
Do you get whining sound from the autobox after abusing it ?
I think the light whining of the 8ZF 'box is fairly common and not to be feared, they're proving to be very robust. For more serious whining it probably wants checking out.
Worth considering a 60k fluid change on the gearbox too IMO regardless of whining.
You said it doesn't make a big difference on sport+ because the é diff behaves like a LSD on that setting. I only us eit on track and yeah the difference is huge. On the road I'd rather have the frustration of esc light coming and power cut for the safety sake. So my question is: is it worth2grant?
Josue Neto sorry I wasn’t very clear, I meant not much of a difference in stability control intervention, the behaviour and feel of the Quaife is MUCH better than the e-diff in Sport+.
No change in my opinion in the TC safety, it just intervenes less as there’s more grip.
A must have mod for road or track, we’ll worth the money in the context of these cars’ values. 🙌
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS read in many places it is a must, and I'd definitely would do it since I take the car to the track if it wasn't for the price tag. With that amount of money I can do full brake upgrade m4 lca's (springs and sway bars already done) and sticky tyres which imo make a bigger difference. Never drove one with the LSD, but with traction control off the diff is not what is stopping me on the track if you know what I mean, so it's not priority atm
Josue Neto you’re definitely right that tyres will make a bigger difference on track! One consideration though is that they will put more strain on all aspects of the car. 🤔
Interested to hear what you think of the ARBs?
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS oh the ARBs are just something. Again a must if you take the car on track. And with the springs that back end doesn't feel as loose
Josue Neto that’s very encouraging, something I’m considering. Do they hurt the ride over rougher ground at all?
lsd vs awd ? ( awd bmw is a sort of limited slip right )
It kind of is but they're quite different in reality...
For all weather grip and usability the Xdrive awd is superior - it's a safer car to drive in all conditions because of this.
For driving enjoyment rwd with the LSD is superior in most people's eyes, they feel fantastic to drive and can be more playful above the limits of grip! :-)
What track do you drive on ?
Jordan Hands it’s Blyton Park in Lincolnshire at the start of this vid, Cadwell Park and Donington also feature in the remap vid. 👍
What sort of money are we talking for a LSD?
I'm calculating (with my favourite man maths calculator) whether it's better to modify an M140i or just spend more on something already track ready!
Chris about £1900 for a new unit fitted, maybe £1500 used.
I’m of the mind that a cheap trackcar and an m140 are a better option than say an M2. Purely because there’s nothing quite like the pure driving thrill of more simple analogue cars on the track, more focussed road cars are more compromised and consumables cost a fortune!
Matt, if you could do only one mod....would it be coilovers or diff?
Now that's a painful decision Steve... total cop out answer, but I would find a way to do both. I would spend less on the suspension to allow me to do the diff and consider the diff something to be removed again when selling the car, making the true cost of the diff fairly small, especially if you wait for a second hand unit at sensible money.
REALLY pushed, the diff. REALLY want to do both though! 😅
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Ha Ha! Good answer - I like your thinking.
Hi mate love the video but you mention buy the car for about 12k how many miles you look at for that price?
Hi Simon, this was made a couple of years ago, so the prices owing to the bizarre market we’ve experienced are higher now than they were. At the time I would have been referring to an entry level auto m135i, so perhaps towards higher mileage.
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS thanks for that pal I'm looking at buying one but I want a fairly new 140i currently around 25k with less than 30k on the clock I will wait for a price drop first and don't want one that's been messed with first
@@simonfearing4907 all sounds very sensible. Think there will be plenty on the market soon as they’re such accessible cars and plenty will be struggling to run them soon.
Worth giving strong consideration to desirable options and waiting for the right spec too. 😊
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS ideally I want LSD red leather and pro nav but I don't mind doing it myself , a remap already screams it's been thrashed and that is a big no no for me I want it as a daily for at least the next 4-5 years so it has to be right, I test drove one a whilst back and shit myself when the back twitched and it's scared me ever since so much so it's made my mind up as the car I want next
Can you explain wave Vs quaife Vs M performance LSD.....which one u prefer than
Late reply Martin sorry, YT alerts on comments are hit and miss. ANy of them are better diffs than I am a driver. New, whichever you can find cheapest. Used, Quaife or Wavetrack, purely because the BMW Drexler diff is serviceable. 👍
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Hi, Thank you for all of your great contents. Would you please give a bit more comment about your recommendation of “Used, …”? I did not quite understand why Quaife or Wave is recommended because MP is “serviceable”. What Do you mean by “serviceable “?
Sorry but I’m not a native English speaker.
@@matomax3242 no probs, the BMW (Drexler) diff is a clutch type diff with plates that wear and can need replacing, the Quaife and Wavetrac are geared diffs that don’t have any consumable components. 👍
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Thank you so much for your comment! Understood! I may go for OS Giken since it's easy to obtain in my country.
2k includes the diff and fitting
Timmy Mallet yes mate, just under 2k is about the going rate. 👍
CIRCUIT : DRIVER thanks mate be looking into that
Timmy Mallet if you’re looking to do it a bit cheaper, keep an eye on sale groups on FB and the BabyBMW site sooner or later you’ll find an M135i LSD for ~£1200 and an M140i LSD for ~£1500, then it will cost about £100 for fitting. The only thing I’d avoid is higher mileage M Performance LSDs as they will require a rebuild sooner or later making it a false economy.
Best of luck, they’re well wort the money. 😊
CIRCUIT : DRIVER thanks verry much helped me out a lot 👍🏻👍🏻
I'm considering an lsd for my m135i. Does it improve 0-60 numbers or improve traction at launch?
He-man Master of the Universe yes it improves traction at launch so 0-60 will be a little quicker 🙌
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS Does it improve traction in wet weather as these cars can catch out inexperienced drivers?
Robinho's Left Foot yes definitely, the bigger benefit is in how the car loses grip and transitions to oversteer on power, doing so more predictably and repeatably. Essentially it’s easier to learn to drive the car around and above the limits with the LSD and more enjoyable once you’ve got the hang of it. 😊
@@CIRCUITDRIVERCARS 👍
Did you pay £12000 for a M140i?
Haha I wish! It was just an example amount, more relevant to M135is TBH! 👍
LSD isnt the be all and end all unless you are driving like a twat on the public roads or yo race!
For some I agree, for me I appreciate the change in the way the cars feels ALL the time. It’s not just about the way it feels around then limits of grip... it’s a hard sensation to describe well! 😂