QUESTION 1: There were many variations, was it dry, or do you feel you understood at least the overall ideas behind the attach and how it makes black's 2nd-line knight's move look misplaced after? QUESTION 2: Are you willing to give it a try even without memorizing everything, just by understanding the gist of some of the variations and the move's overall idea? (I recommend) QUESTION 3: Asking moves, aka probing moves... How was my brief explanation of those? I believe many of you wonder about them.
I thought it was interesting enough to want to try it even if I fail the first few times. The only down side is I don't see the low sweeping move enough, but I am still ready to play it out if I ever encounter it and won't feel lost or play passively like in the examples you provided.
@@Herv3 Right, I usually like to cover more common moves/things but over time you will encounter it many times, and you could always play the 2nd-line knight's move yourself to con some extra points (ie. end up with uninvadable finished corner without the kick/3-3 aji) if you think they don't know the super tesuji ^_^ Most don't, even dans I think. TBH I didn't even know it for most of my years as a 5d+
I didn't expect this asking move 😅 really nice. When you can't read whole sequences and you rely on intuition, sometimes you play this kind of asking moves, not sure if it is the same, but basically you want your opponent playing there to see if their answer helps you to visualize. Many times, you don't visualize after the answer, but the opponent plays another move to ensure that won't be a problem in the future, which is already good because gives you sente. I understand that when you are able to read and see that you are doing an overplay, you shouldn't do it, but without reading to deep, I'm afraid we do many overplays that looks as asking moves. Great lesson as always! Much appreciated
Nice thoughtful response, and thanks for the feedback. Yes it seems like you understand some or all of the ideas with such asking moves, for example the part about them potentially wasting an additional move later to remove the aji you left in there, which originally cost you very little to create. They could potentially lose a whole move or part of a move.
1) Not too dry. I got a pretty decent sense of the variations and strategies here. 2) I am definitely willing to give it a try in my games, even if I have to invent some sequence on the fly. 3) The asking move discussion was interesting and helpful. I guess the key is that they have choices to make in response to some hypothetical move and making them answer as early and as blindly as possible has value.
Overall good impression from f the variations and timing. Willing to try if it comes up, just a probe after all. Can sacrifice if I need to. I liked your explanation about timing the asking move.
Indeed! It's not the most common situation but it seemed like an interesting move to talk about, something less common for a change as well as more advanced, and an excuse to talk about asking/probe moves.
If we use that specific right-side stone arrangement as our context for this example, my thought would be that if we respond to that push (with say, R12), black has made a gain from that, and another thing I would think is that after black has played that, the value of another move in this area has gone down, because before black played that white would have wanted to block at S14 and take more territory compared to how much we end up with after R12. It's typical for the value of moves in an area to go down after a move has been played (unless there's a big threat that makes the size/importance of the next move there spike up). Thus, I would assume that we should ignore it for the moment, that there must be something bigger somewhere else on the board. After they push at S14, I want to go play something that was as valuable as S14 or as close as possible, instead of something smaller such as more moves in this area. That said... Regarding the right side, as black I'd rather invade at R12 or possibly even S8, rather than the S14 push this time. Thus, since S14 might not have been the right way to play as black this time, maybe S14 for R12 is actually a gain for white...? :) Let me know if my explanation was clear, if not I can try again :)
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QUESTION 1:
There were many variations, was it dry, or do you feel you understood at least the overall ideas behind the attach and how it makes black's 2nd-line knight's move look misplaced after?
QUESTION 2:
Are you willing to give it a try even without memorizing everything, just by understanding the gist of some of the variations and the move's overall idea? (I recommend)
QUESTION 3:
Asking moves, aka probing moves... How was my brief explanation of those? I believe many of you wonder about them.
I thought it was interesting enough to want to try it even if I fail the first few times. The only down side is I don't see the low sweeping move enough, but I am still ready to play it out if I ever encounter it and won't feel lost or play passively like in the examples you provided.
@@Herv3 Right, I usually like to cover more common moves/things but over time you will encounter it many times, and you could always play the 2nd-line knight's move yourself to con some extra points (ie. end up with uninvadable finished corner without the kick/3-3 aji) if you think they don't know the super tesuji ^_^ Most don't, even dans I think. TBH I didn't even know it for most of my years as a 5d+
I didn't expect this asking move 😅 really nice.
When you can't read whole sequences and you rely on intuition, sometimes you play this kind of asking moves, not sure if it is the same, but basically you want your opponent playing there to see if their answer helps you to visualize.
Many times, you don't visualize after the answer, but the opponent plays another move to ensure that won't be a problem in the future, which is already good because gives you sente.
I understand that when you are able to read and see that you are doing an overplay, you shouldn't do it, but without reading to deep, I'm afraid we do many overplays that looks as asking moves.
Great lesson as always! Much appreciated
Nice thoughtful response, and thanks for the feedback. Yes it seems like you understand some or all of the ideas with such asking moves, for example the part about them potentially wasting an additional move later to remove the aji you left in there, which originally cost you very little to create. They could potentially lose a whole move or part of a move.
1) Not too dry. I got a pretty decent sense of the variations and strategies here.
2) I am definitely willing to give it a try in my games, even if I have to invent some sequence on the fly.
3) The asking move discussion was interesting and helpful. I guess the key is that they have choices to make in response to some hypothetical move and making them answer as early and as blindly as possible has value.
Exactly!! Glad it was understandable, thanks for the comments :)
Overall good impression from f the variations and timing. Willing to try if it comes up, just a probe after all. Can sacrifice if I need to. I liked your explanation about timing the asking move.
Thanks for this helpful feedback :)
fascinating sequence.
Indeed! It's not the most common situation but it seemed like an interesting move to talk about, something less common for a change as well as more advanced, and an excuse to talk about asking/probe moves.
At 22:19 let's say white plays away and black pushes at S14. Should w respond? How do you determine if this type of push is worth responding to?
If we use that specific right-side stone arrangement as our context for this example, my thought would be that if we respond to that push (with say, R12), black has made a gain from that, and another thing I would think is that after black has played that, the value of another move in this area has gone down, because before black played that white would have wanted to block at S14 and take more territory compared to how much we end up with after R12. It's typical for the value of moves in an area to go down after a move has been played (unless there's a big threat that makes the size/importance of the next move there spike up). Thus, I would assume that we should ignore it for the moment, that there must be something bigger somewhere else on the board. After they push at S14, I want to go play something that was as valuable as S14 or as close as possible, instead of something smaller such as more moves in this area.
That said... Regarding the right side, as black I'd rather invade at R12 or possibly even S8, rather than the S14 push this time.
Thus, since S14 might not have been the right way to play as black this time, maybe S14 for R12 is actually a gain for white...? :)
Let me know if my explanation was clear, if not I can try again :)