Godzilla Showdown | SHIN vs GOJIRA, Part 1: The Characters
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- In this first of four videos, Omni and Snazzy put SHIN GODZILLA against the original GOJIRA, to see how it holds up. In this round: the human characters.
Footage is altered somewhat to avoid copyright issues. Hopefully it works. See it now before Toho catches wind of it!
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Away Toho Copyright Lawyers! You will have no power here! You shall not strike!
Speaking as someone who enjoyed Shin Godzilla, I can COMPLETELY understand where you’re coming from and I do agree with a lot of the points here, ESPECIALLY with the characters
From my own experience pointing out the movie's MANY flaws, the "oh the main character is Japan" excuse is a pretty recent one, for the most part all I've heard is "oh well Shin doesn't need characters, it's about the themes and plot" or that Anno's "different" take is good cause it's different.
"The main character is Japan" point is very much a day one thing.
@@mycaleb8 Really? I must not have bumped into it then
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 Its just memetic. It's slowly become more popular.
@@mycaleb8 Another of the myriad pathetic defenses you hear for the movie's problems I suppose
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 Its a decent defense. It's a good movie.
Omni, I feel like your presentation and editing have made a major upgrade. The comedic showing of the title and sound effect with the added *Human to it was great. Your borders and filters that allow you to use more footage and give visuals to your script are doing wonders man. Very happy to see you continue to get better and better.
Ryan, you spent a tremendous amount of time and effort highlighting the 2 films. Thanks for your thoughtful presentation.
I love and appreciate both films for their own merits.
One thing I've noticed about Shin is that it's emphasis on bureaucratic ineptitude when dealing with crises parallels that of the Star Wars Prequels.
It’s okay, Omni. I don’t care much for “Shin Godzilla”, either. I will admit, I don’t have a strong opinion on Shin. I can respect it for bringing Godzilla back to his roots and reestablishing him as a symbol of nuclear destruction. I just couldn’t get into it. I felt Shin was trying way too hard to reinvent Godzilla just for the sake of being different. As far as Godzilla’s serious solo outings go, I felt “The Return of Godzilla” did a better job because it managed to make Godzilla an imposing force without completely changing his character from scratch.
You know, The Return of Godzilla was the first Godzilla movie I ever watched and if I had to choose one film out of the entire series as my favorite, I would still pick that one. Of course nostalgia may play a small part in that but the greater factors are the atmosphere and solemn mood that film evokes. And although I prefer the original cut to the "1985" version, Raymond Burr's presence added something, particularly in the ending.
This is the first I've heard of Goro Maki's back story, and yeah I agree the movie would be way more interesting with him as the lead.
So Shin started the trend with current Toho Godzilla stories of why isn't side character/plot line the main focus? Here I thought it was the polygon trilogy.
It also started the trend with current Toho not letting Godzilla be an expressive character. In fact, Adam Wingard had to fight tooth and claw with Toho to make Godzilla smile in GvK.
15:35
When talking about Godzilla vs. Gojira, I don't think it can be fully understated just how *good* the dialogue in the American cut is. Much is made of Raymond Burr's monologue during Godzilla's final attack on Tokyo ("George, here in Tokyo, time has been turned back two million years. This is my report as it happens.") but we tend to forget what's probably the best line in either film comes from the American script.
"Then you have a responsibility no man has ever faced. You have your fear which might become reality. And you have Godzilla, which *is* reality."
You really summarized how I felt about this movie. Great video
Great Video Omni!
Yeah I agree with Omni. The human characters of Shin Godzilla are not that good. We have no reason why we should care about them. Plus we no Jack about them, and the film spends more time telling us who they are instead of showing us this breaking the golden rule of film making, show don’t tell.
"Show don't tell" is a highly exaggerated necessity. And Shin shows plenty.
I don’t feel that way. For all of the characters we are told what they are like. Except for the PM who is a parody of Government incompetence
Fantastic video, Omni!
You summarized perfectly what I really don't like about this movie; The characters.
lol Other than the original 1954 Gojira, human characters are always the weakest part of the franchise. Im just glad Adam Wingard realizes this, & kept the focus on the titans. Garreth Edwards even admitted, Wingard made the other Monsterverse director's look bad by comparison. I agree 100%
@@ronniepatterson2827 Yeah, You're right about that in the MV films but i don't exactly agree about other G movies.
While in the Godzilla franchise the characters aren't the best, they can also be entertaining to watch or they can be likeable; Take for example Glenn and Miss Namikawa from Monster Zero or Professor Hayashida and the Prime Minister from Godzilla 1984, but the best character since Serizawa imo is Akane from Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla.
My point is that while there aren't complex characters across the franchise, there are indeed entertaining ones or characters that are likeable or even memorable.
@@thanatos-zero-xAgreed, there are more interesting human characters in this franchise than folks realize. Im sure Mr Collins is a bit of an expert when it comes to such things. That said, the humans are still the weakest part of the franchise & definately not the reason why Godzilla has endured for so long in pop culture
@@ronniepatterson2827 Agreed.
100% Behind You On This, Good Sir!
I hope when you discuss Shin, you also talk about the song that goes with him “Who Will Know”. I feel like this song gives us the clearest description of Shin’s character in the movie.
omni already critiqued that in his older videos fyi
The lyrics of "Who Will Know?" frustrate me because it's Shin whining about how every time he goes ashore people hurt him...after having gone ashore again so people will hurt him. If he would just stop going ashore, people would stop trying to hurt him.
I like the border you used. It has this retro feel and reminds me of old school Toonami in the early 2000's.
Good stuff, I kinda like Shin tho...
I don't take umbrage with people who like Shin Godzilla. I just take umbrage with the movie itself and make videos like this about it.
Holy Hell, I just realized im not the only one who didnt care for Shin Godzilla all that much. I mean, other than a great "generic?" last name for one of the characters lol. Cant wait to hear you agree how hard the Shin Godzilla design itself sux, in your SHIN vs GOJIRA part 2 upload.
I actually like Shin Godzilla’s design. Except for his arm size and tail face.
@@ShinGhidorah17 lol yep
I feel like the Americanized version of Gojira should b treated better then it deserves I felt the same way about it as most Godzilla fans felt about the original Japanese version
Looking forward to Parts 2+! The Shin human characters are pretty dry (and Shin himself isn't much better as a character, if any), but on the human side I'm.... kind of okay with it in this case. Anno seems to be writing a thesis that politics is the art of effective cooperation, and is the primary reason why humanity has been able to rise up despite our physical mediocrity to challenge and overcome forces of nature or even (in Shin's case) incipient Lovecraftian cosmic horrors. For that purpose, the human characters (and Godzilla) serve as props, illustrating the breakdown of political structure and a proper refresh of it in the face of overwhelming disaster (mirroring the earthquake, tsunami, and consequent Fukashima disaster. Which I probably mis-spelled due to laziness.) That makes for a verrrrrrry dry plot, but once I realized something close to this was going on -- which I figured out relatively quick during my first theatrical viewing -- I was impressed enough at the attempt to appreciate it. It's admittedly a rarefied, esoteric taste, but that's also Anno as an artist (though admittedly again this is a LOT drier than his usual fare.)
I loved Shin Godzilla SO much, I saw it one time during its limited theatrical run in the US! 🙃
"Yeah, that would have been pretty neat..."
Godzilla Zero: *smiles mysteriously?*
YOU'RE NOT ALONE OMNI, I DON'T LIKE SHIN GODZILLA EITHER. I FOR ONE KNOW IT'S OK TO DISLIKE SOMETHING THAT OTHER PEOPLE LIKE, AND I HATE WHEN SOMEONE THINKS LESS OF YOU FOR HAVING A DIFFERENT OPPINION.
I’m With You On This As Well!!
That movie lives in your head...
Every Godzilla movie lives in my head.
@@omniviewer2115 Fair enough... Lol
One of the reasons I kind of hesitant to watch Shin Godzilla due to how they really changed Godzilla he’s no longer a giant lizard/dinosaur he’s more a mutation especially since he fires lasers from his his back and his tail, his atomic breath is amazing but the rest of I’d pass.
Thanks for the upload
Dude godzilla was never a mutated dinosaur in the first place and is most of the time his own species. He was only a mutated dinosaur in the heisei era and only time he started out as a regular animal and became mutated was heisei, 1998 and shin gojira. Plus are we gonna forget gmk godzilla is supernatural in origin, godzilla earth is a plant based organism and godzilla ultima is his own being who's interdimensional
@@Kaiju-bm4ts My problem was more with Shin himself in his defence he has atomic breath like other versions such as Godzilla 98 all had atomic breath. Technically Godzilla does have magnetic powers but that was only shown in Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla, but again they had atomic breath wherein Shin has back laser’s for rear defence and tail lasers for the same purpose. I really don’t mind them changing up his origins and his look such as in Godzilla 98 (yes it wasn’t good film and it is more a remake of the beast from 10,000 fathoms)MVK which I haven’t seen yet but they still portray him as a giant lizard/dinosaur to me if they change it to much I lose interest.
I have a Godzilla novel concept I might put to use the moment Godzilla prose books are allowed again where Yamane's words DID ring on someone's ears and they applied the Yamane Scenario which is used as a worst case scenario should Godzilla ever return.
Wow. You read Shin's characters much differently than me. If I had the time, I'd explain more. Apparently, I saw more subtext based on knowing Shin was a response to the 3/11 triple disaster.
Addressing the movie's ties to 3/11 will come later, but trust me, I've got well in mind.
Not sure if someone has gone over this below, but I'm wondering whether Emiko keeps any secrets with Steve. She does interact with him occasionally, since he's friends with her fiance (although unlike Serizawa Steve apparently knows about "the typical triangle" already.)
what I only like about shin is its power breath.
I have the same criticisms of this like you Omni
A couple things Omni (1) I haven’t had a chance to watch the Shin Godzilla movie yet but from what I saw of clips from that movie as well as what u told me about the movie characters, story n Godzilla himself it feels like a movie I would b ok with missing which doesn’t happen that often regarding Godzilla films (2) when u talked about the comparison of Shin Godzilla to the Legendary Godzilla (2014) that felt like a fair n decent not to mention honest comparison as both movies were true remakes of the original Gojira film it’s just that Legendary did a better job with their Godzilla please don’t b discouraged by any of the naysayers who couldn’t handle the truth Shin Godzilla may b a Godzilla film but it’s not a very good Godzilla film anymore so then the 1998 film something tells me I’m gonna catch hell 4 that statement but oh well keep up the good work Omni oh n don’t forget the subjects I brought up in the past videos
I’d say as a godzilla fan you should watch it for the one time to at least develop your own full fledged opinion on it
@@R0ckM4st4606 at this moment I don’t have access to the movie but if by chance I should come across it I’ll give it a shot
This is like comparing dominion with Jurassic Park 1993. Godzilla KotM pays homage to the original.
Exactly it's not a fair comparison their two different movies
@@Godzilla-tu2cd while shin gojira and gojira are 2 different movies, they're also strikingly similar since both are the only godzilla movies to be inspired by the only nuclear disasters that struck Japan and act as commentaries on both incidents. So despite their differences, people are gonna compare them because of their similar messages.
A real unfair comparison would be the even dumber godzilla 2014 vs shin gojira debate, one film pays homage to the showa era as a whole with a serious tone and coincidentally has the same plot as gamera 1995. The other is the closest to a remake of gojira we'll ever get and has a different message.
Godzilla 1954 is my favourite movie of all time. It’s definitely better than Shin Godzilla. I’m currently working on an animated movie remake of the original film with a unique spin on it.
Actually I recently Rewatched Gojira (American version) Ogata was a navy officer not just a regular average joe/ jiro
You're not the only one who dislikes Shin Godzilla, Omni. C Animus made a three hour video breaking down everything he can, both good and bad. Another in particular is Gojira5400, but unlike him, you and C Animus are reasonable.
"But didn't he change his mind when he watch Godzilla King of the Monsters?"
Richard Manzo only appeared to change his mind on Shin Godzilla when comparing it to KOTM because talking trash about it was the most contentious topic in 2020, and he jumped on it just for attention. Why else do you think he did that failed attempt at an "ARG"? For attention. That's all he does.
Ah I remember when people loved kotm in 2019 then hating on it in 2020 nowadays people thought it was meh
I'm in agreence
Hmm the more I hear about Goro Maki the more I think about Emma Russell in King Of The Monsters (2019) who became disillusioned with humanity n wanted to release the kaiju 1 at a time
22:06 Kyoko has a line that says she doesn’t want to watch Japan get bombed, because her grandmother lived through it. I think that line alone is enough to justify her support of Japan because it’s like asking the descendant of a Holocaust survivor if they would wanna prevent another Holocaust.
I know that dropping a nuke in a densely populated area isn’t comparable to the Holocaust, but I’m not saying which one is worse. I’m saying that I can see Kyoko’s thought process on America nuking Godzilla
Plus godzilla would probably become more powerful since he's nuclear
She does say that, it's true, but that doesn't really change the suddenness of her turn from "I'm in this to further my political career" to "I'm going to risk everything I've got on a plan that might fail horribly because nukes are bad." There's no real buildup. In every previous scene, she shows little sign of knowing anything about Japan or a desire to learn. She just suddenly changes her tune when the plot demands it, and then she's fully-invested in a nation she's barely spent two weeks in. We don't even get a montage where she does some exploring and visits the Hiroshima Memorial. That would have at least shown us that she was learning about Japan.
I understand your point in comparing it to the Holocaust, and with a little tweaking, the plot might have actually gotten that across. The thing is, though, that in its current state, there's no reason behind her thought process. It's like the difference between believing the Holocaust was evil because you've seen the footage and pictures and read the accounts of survivors, and believing the Holocaust was evil because you've always heard people say it's evil. In that latter instance, you might still have the right perspective, but do you really understand the subject matter?
My biggest issue with this movie is giving 90% of the focus to politician characters, most of whom seem to barely express anything other than mild annoyance. Pair that up with an emotionless kaiju that spends most of it's screentime strolling towards nothing in particular, makes for a painfully boring movie.
22:44 Was that a shot at Shin Godzilla and Avengers Endgame or just Shin Godzilla?
Two birds, one (infinity) stone.
@@omniviewer2115 So what do you think of Endgame now?
Very well stated. I still prefer Shin because it feels almost like (to me, anyway), real-time footage of a disaster. When watching people respond to an emergency crisis, I don't need to know about their personal lives - I want to see them do their jobs! I want to see them either succeed or fail, but have no interest in them other than their roles. The 1954 film did give characterization / back story to an extent, and it had to, because it was a drama. Shin can be (at least in my eyes) be viewed nearly as found footage of Japan's response to a kaiju attack. The event is interesting in and of itself - I don't need to know about Rando Yaguchi's personal life, hopes, dreams, etc. - I just need to see how he handles the crisis. As always, just my 2 cents. Excellent video as usual, Omni.
I have to disagree with the comparison of Avengers Endgame to that of the chick from Shin Godzilla as we know her from that 1 movie n there’s not a lot to speak about her hence this rant, with the characters from Endgame however it’s a much different story we’ve gone through so many movies with these various people n we’ve seen how they started how they’ve changed n where there’re at by the time of Endgame it has more of a reason to get a time skip then Shin Godzilla does
My own views between Godzilla felt Omni did good with characters. How I predict going. Gojira: is a wrathful creature even roaring at people unprovoked. And gets worst when the military take action. The blue oyster cult song and it's remake somes up his rampage "helpless people on subway train scream bug eye as they look up on him." that shock of a creature out of time showing up "He picks up a bus throws back down as he wades through the center of town's" he doesn't care for humanity living in his territory that was ounce his. Godzilla in this film is his own character even though he is an animal. Shin Godzilla shows up destroy their is nothing inspiring about him. Don't give me symbolism. Super heroes have that and here recent DC/marvel keeps woke themes anyway point. Of their mad at them messing up those characters yet messing up Godzilla they try to defend this one that's got the same bland characters, forced conflicts with little backing, and the titular character is just in it to be in it. I'd argue even worse The 98 Godzilla (Zilla) not much better grieves at his own young. Out smarts military gets them to do his bidding without them being nun the wiser. Oh that's not go comparison you say well how much of shin Godzilla can you say carried emotions. Not a lot only shrieks moves slowly
L take + bozo.
I’m just kidding, Omni. While I disagree on your takes on Shin Goji, I appreciate those on 54. Honestly 54 has one of the best casts in any movie ever in my opinion. Emiko is such an amazing lead, just… incredible. And the rest of the cast is just as good. I appreciate the cast of Shin Goji, and I love the film in general, but overall, can’t beat the original. Unless you’re Gamera 3. Or Godzilla 1984.
It was atomic bombs that America used against Japan, not nuclear ones.
After many rewatchs and much thinking, i consider Shin Godzilla as a GOOD movie, just that, plain good,not excellent, not great, and i belive that is mainly because of the direction, thematic and cinematigrafic stand point.
One represents the misuses of nuclear weapons and the other is a allegory of the 311 earthquake/tsunami. Their two different interpretations of Godzilla but still represents him as something to fear and respect. And I love both versions. 13:45 and that's a fact. I love Rayman and he's right about preserving Godzilla image but he's bearly a character in the 1956 cut. He doesn't interact with the cast he's just in the background most of the time. You can't compare this character to shin Godzilla huge cast of characters that are important to the movie and make Japan as a whole a character itself.
He doesn't interact with the cast, you say? That's not true at all. I mean, fine, Raymond Burr does not interact with the original cast, but Steve Martin does interact with the original characters in multiple scenes throughout. He is integrated into the plot more significantly than just being in the background, even if the tricks used to make it happen are a bit obvious.
That, combined with what I already state in the video, is why I stand by including him in the analysis, and why I think he's still stronger than the multitude of people who appear in this film, yet barely have any substance to them.
And the "Japan is the character" bit is addressed at the end.
@Godzilla93 You do know that characters are the most important thing in any story right? And as Omni said at the end of the video the whole “Japan is a character” bullshit isn’t an excuse since Casablanca used it’s characters to represent different countries or ideas but still made them their own characters
At this point Omni Viewer, it really seems like you’re merely milking the Shin Godzilla hate for clicks and in conjunction with the controversy surrounding Hideaki Anno during the making of Shin Kamen Rider. Plus, no offense, you have continuously not only been overly negative but very arrogant with how you treat other people who just so happen to disagree with you. Perhaps consider not treating your audience like they are below you. Just a thought, man.
He didn't know about the controversy he also made it into a video just now
What controversy
@@legendarygodzillatheking3049 look at omni viewer's new vid which talks about it
Safe to say Omni still hasn't gotten the point of Shin Gojira yet
Sadly he hasn't
I like Shin Godzilla but I think people should be free to dislike something other people like
@@t.rexking441 ik, I'm just stating what's on my mind. Like what u like lol
This isn't even the video where I discuss "the point". You might want to reserve full judgment until then.
He’s clearly displayed in past videos that he does “get the point”, but that doesn’t change the fact he dislikes the film.
You can’t equate the enjoyability of film solely to the understanding of its themes. This no different than The Last Jedi fans trying to defend Rian Johnsons terrible writing because “you don’t understand the themes”.
Here’s an actual tip from a writer, the themes should never be the focus of a story. A story is like a perfectly cooked steak, and the thematics are mere garnish to add onto the dish. The point of any piece of media should be entertainment, that requires different things depending on the medium we are discussing, but for fiction, the main focus should be the the plot and characters. It’s a bit more complex than that of course, but these two aspects are arguably the most important factors of any book, film, or show.
If your plot starts to drag, the audience will become bored. If it becomes overcomplicated, the audience will fail to understand whats happening and lose their minds trying to figure out whats going on, eventually giving up. As for the characters, contrary to popular belief, a character doesn’t necessarily have to be relatable to be enjoyable, nor do they have to be super complex. But at the very least, your characters have to be understandable and enjoyable, and ultimately they should feel like a real entity you could meet, even if they aren’t human. Simplistic characters can work because they still have some level of depth to them, but overly simplistic characters with no understandably defining traits are a serious problem. These are characters you don’t enjoy or feel anything for, because you can clearly tell they aren’t real, whereas a well written character doesn’t feel like a character. I suppose these overly simplistic caricatures could be viewed as relatable in the vague sense that the feelings they portray are basically interchangeable with anyone alive, but that’s not much of a compliment.
This is what breaks a story, I don’t care if you’re writing a thrilling commentary on society, or addressing serious political issues, hell your story could support mass genocide for all I care. If thats all there is to your project, then I don’t want it. Again, the story is the steak and the thematics are just garnish. If I order a meal and my waiter gave me a plate of compound butter and no actual food, I’m going to complain.
Honestly the characters in the original are overrated shins way better
I have a feeling you just enjoy being a contrarian.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 i just think older movies are overrated