Team Muscle Memory or Team Semantic Memory? Tell me in the comments! :P Memorization is such a big topic and everyone struggles with it - me too. As everyone's brain is working differently there is no "golden rule" of memorizing something. Generally I am working a lot with my muscle memory but I would combine it with other memory types and memorizing techniques - but this will be part of another video;P
Es ist schwer mit Worten zu beschreiben. Denn die Muskeln werden ja immer vom Gehirn aus angesteuert, haben kein eigenes Gedächtnis o. ä. Es geht wohl um verschiedene Bereiche bzw. Areale des Gehirns, die bei verschiedenen Methoden dominieren, zusammenarbeiten usw. Ich kann aber die künstliche Trennung bei der Beschreibung nachvollziehen. Mir fehlen die Worte. Für mich ist es ein Wunder, was das menschliche Gehirn, was mein Gehirn zu leisten vermag.
Thanks for a great start .......... Very important topic. Perhaps the most important of all? I hope you dare to try to get to the bottom of this topic. But you probably do not dare to be completely honest, regarding this very important topic for musicians and music. But hope you try and wait anxiously for your final conclusions. The subject has been circulating in my brain for approx. 60 years.
For me I prefer neither one nor the other... The two will be very important together... And by the way, I haven't seen you on your channel about Semantic Memory yet... I'll be waiting...
Yeah has to be team both for me :) also with a smattering of somewhat unreliable photographic on top of it. Muscle memory is great, but getting lost in a piece where I didn't do the work of learning the harmonies is a terrifying thought. Then again muscle memory is pretty rad - picking up some pieces I haven't touched in 15 years or more kind of flooded back really quickly. Still, learning better fingerings than I had at 16 still means more work 😂
For me, when I'm playing a piece I haven't been playing for a while, I am able to play it with muscle memory but the second I started to think about the music I'd forget how to play the piece.
Yes omg, when i start to think or look my hand i just blank and asked my self where my finger should go,but when i play by thinking other thing i just finished the piece 🤣
That’s a bad memory habit. This is why you need to analyze music and do harmonic memorization, pattern memorization and 2-5 measure drilling to perfection. It’s well worth it especially if you learn to memorize each measure # and can begin the piece at ANY point some other person names
@@guitarmartin1 just what it sounds like: you drill between two and five measures of a difficult spot to memorize and you just memorize it and drill it in different rhythms depending what type of acrobatics are happening. Helps you memorize it and perfected smoothly within 5 to 10 minutes depending on how hard it is and what level you’re at.
Muscle memory for me, but sometimes it can play me tricks: I definitely struggle to catch the piece I've memorized at a random place, I always need to start from a "checkpoint", or even from the beginning. And I noticed it's more blatant on slow pieces than faster or more technical ones.
Wow, this, so much this! My teacher told me once "start from measure 23". I lost it. I told him i cant. He said, "are you joking, you are playing it lightning fast and very well, why cant you start from there".
Some comments I could add to the nice and interesting video: Muscle memory is essential. however it comes unconsciously. My advice after a lot of piano competition: It is very dangerous to rely only on this muscle memory if you need to play on stage: With stress, piano new sounds, you may sometimes lose your “cool” and trust in your unconscious to find back automatically next note. At that moment , where your mind says “ danger”, you will have a hard time to stay in “unconscious mode” and your mind will switch in conscious mode and you will ask yourself:” it sounded strange. Isn’t it” ?“what is the next note? » « is it here or above? » At this time it would be better to wish you learned your music in a « conscious” way. This is more preparation work but if you did the work, your mind is at peace that you know every piece of the score and will not start to doubt during your performance on stage. The day I understood this solved all my memory issues in public
This so well explained. It is very hard to put words on feelings in general, especially when it comes with what happening in your head playing music, with lot of habits, under stress.
These videos are literally worth thousands of euro/pounds/dollars. Thank you Annique for making this fantastic resource available. I am sure that you are encouraging many people to up their musical game significantly.
I've never had trouble memorizing music with any composer EXCEPT BACH! He is the only one I struggle with and now I want to memorize one prelude and one fugue for an audition in the end of May. Wish me luck 😅
In addition to what you discuss, which is all quite helpful, I'm a fan of introducing novelty into the learning and memorization processes. For example, I enjoy memorizing in retrograde, starting at the end of the piece and gradually making my way back to the beginning section by section while always playing to the end. Not only does this provide a novel perspective on the piece (like looking at a painting upside down), but it can sometimes undo the very normal outcome of learning a piece in a linear way which results in knowing earlier material better than later material. In theory, one should know a piece equally well across every note of every measure of every phrase or every section or every movement. As another example, I will often make difficult sections of a piece into a finger exercise through simple manipulation like sequencing and inversion, in addition to rhythmic manipulation/development in the way you do. Transposition or tonal sequencing exercises are a classic way to get to know the unique shape and feel of any given figure or gesture. Finally, I love playing along with my favorite performers. I was going back to play some old Schubert repertoire a few months ago, and decided to play along with Murray Pariah's interpretation of the piece, his ideas about dynamic and tempo expression, his ideas about voicings and obscured melodies. Hearing his details very much helped me think about the importance of every note, every rest, every dynamic and articulation, every tempo change. It's a bit like trying a dish cooked by a great chef in order to help you connect with your own cooking. Great videos, keep up the good work!
I have also done learning in reverse. Usually the most difficult parts are more towards the end, so you end up repeating them more often if you start learning from the end
A superb video going into great detail. Most people are not as aware of what they are doing as she is. I found that I was visually memorizing where my hands were. Not good Enough!
Muscle memory mainly and Harmony. Not all times, for example in first sonata movements and rondos, romantic trios, etc I could memorize diferents sections. Ive been doing it for many many years so.
Currently doing this for singing and it's helping my voice tremendously. I am learning guitar and piano as well. Once you get a good coach that shoes you how to access muscle memory the sky is the limit. It took me many years to understand this and its more intuitive than anything. I am doing all kinds of research on how to build it right.
this is so true and one of the difficulties pianists encounter when performing: the piano on stage is not the same as the one you practice with and this messes up your muscle memory. Thankyou for your advice!
Ich habe in diesem einzigen Video mehr gelernt als in einem ganzen Jahre Klavierunterricht. Weil es so grundlegende Dinge sind, die einem für jedes Stück nützlich sind. Danke!
Thank you! I spend everyday of my life for last 2 1/2 years non stressing my physical body. Use my mind more but even focus on not over bearing my vision while sight reading. No clutching of hands ever. My Mother told me not to ever clutch your hands when you sleep when I was 8 years old. It's a habit with me when I awake at night that my hands are relaxed. Good practice! I love this lesson as it contains so much useful insight that should be common sense...but must be discovered. Wish you were giving zoom lessons. I take from a Gifted Ukrainian teacher from Chicago and a Master Taubman Teacher off and on. I live in Los Angeles. Thank you again for sharing your craft especially about muscle memory and posture.
I can relate to many comments here. I'm totally strong with muscle memory but sometimes I wish I wasn't as it brings a lot of difficulties. Pieces I learned way back ago I hardly can change now and some parts get realy sloppy over time. Also I can play in very high speed without even strain much but also over time I don't realy now what I am doing and to play it slowly or give the music a different shape isn't possible. I try to learn more semantic and analytical now. Thank you for your focus on the whole body muscle memory though. This realy is enlightening and might weeken the struggles I have with muscle memory as for me the things I memorize slowly drift out of consciousness it makes totally sense to be conscious of every movement all the time.
Neurologists and neurologists and psychologists use a term different from muscle memory for this. When your brain first encounters a topic it is reflected in wide stimulation of neurons. As you practice, the neurons stimulated become fewer and fewer but the neurons stimulated carry or store more and more information. When you recall the information, it is more economical for as few neurons as possible to work. This process is called adaptation and consolidation. See a brief essay, seven and a half lessons on your brain by Feldman-Barrett.
This is super useful. Not only does it give great suggestions, but it also gives a lot of insight on how a high level pianist practices. Sometimes it gets frustrating to spend so much time practicing and show so little progress. More!
Years ago, I hadn't watched any RUclips videos for advice. Not a lot of this advice would have occurred to me. I've watched lots of videos in the last 18 months and am pleased to say lots of your techniques come to me naturally now. I understand the reasons why to use them.
I play alot with muscle memory 😂 But i struggle sometimes... when i get to some trouble parts, because i can't remember right and start to try to rebuild (this happens sometimes in pieces i play like 10 times fluently till i get to this fudge moment 😬😂) ... before i take a serious look at the notes. Then i should get deeper again and stich every finger / note with a though. And the experience with another location i also did sometimes... at home it works and works and then i get some audience in another room and all the different things like lights, wall and surrounding disturbed me so much i could not play even it felt like... the piano is not the piano i used to play... well of course it is different... but... it was like... it use not the same key seize and so on 😬😂🙈 Great video! 💜
There are several RUclips videos on memorization, but this one is the best. I´m ¨stuck¨ using only muscle memory, so I look forward to the next installment. Brava! --Chuck
Tanks for sharing your experience and tips... I remember one teacher told me that there are three memories: 1) of the sound, 2) the fingers and 3) the gesture. Usually one can help each other in case of failure. You are also 100% right, we are always boring in playing slowly, but this is the key to the way to play faster in fact.
Also, there’s a huge difference between “practicing slowly” and “practicing in slow motion”. When practicing in slow motion, you play as if you’re a video recording slowed down. It’s a completely different feeling. It’s much more like playing fast and it’s much easier to speed up.
Thank you for raising this interesting subject. There are many forms, or types, of memory, which are linked to our basic human senses. For crafts, artistry and music, I submit that it's how one's brain shifts between procedural memory, i.e., long-term memory that recalls how we do things physically and mentally, and working/short-term memory. The human brain is a fascinating labyrinth of complex processors and sensors.
This is really interesting - I've never given thought to how I memorise pieces, it always just kind of happened. So I suppose muscle memory is how I work. I absolutely get what you mean about differences causing insecurities. It's like suddenly everything is so different and feels incredibly unfamiliar! You put it a great way. That paper exercise also reminded me of a similar thing a teacher showed me, basically forcing you to go back to the start to try and embed new changes in memory. Keep up the great videos!
Incredible, i clicked on this video because i was planning to memorize op 10 n4 and that's the piece you use as an example :D . Your methods are brillant and i see you really are a good disciplinarian despite the appearances and that is influencing my practice excellently to get results.
This is so helpful! I have a serious issue with not being able to memorize pieces. I self taught for 15 years, and mostly sight read everything. It wasn’t until recently I started taking lessons that I started practicing the way you’re describing. It’s helping so much! I should really try practicing with different rhythms too because I haven’t done that yet but can definitely see the benefit of it. Side note - I really enjoy your videos!
What you say I want to confirm. It is quite true to practice slowly and the other things you said. However, I am always amazed to see how perfectly pianists play by heart. I also point at other aspects who can influence badly: not sleeping very well, you are tired, you feel a little headache, it is very hot, and so forth. I am a professional concert organist. All the very good professinal organists do not play by heart. They always have notes to look at. I do not know if you want to answer but how long does it take for a very good pianist without fotografic memory to play for instance the second piano concerto of Rachmaninov by heart?
I always visualise the piece as a whole... and the muscle memory just kicks in. After practicing a lot I just remember where my hands should go. lol and i learnt myself. which is why I’m watching this.
I learned once about 4 memories. Muscle, visual, semantic (theoretical) and by ear. I loved what you mentioned about every single muscle in your body remembers what you repeat.. even the way you breath, tje way you feel, that's why if you are nervous for a presentation your muscle memory may fall apart!
That is one of the reasons why I am eagerly waiting for part 2 and 3 .... and part 4 and maybe I hope it a part 5 or more on this topic? I can not see in my theory books or remember that it has been reviewed during my own music education? So very very important topic.
I suffered a lot in this Op 10#4 during my studies. Now 25 years later I came across the correct wrist movements which are actually quite straightforward, and all of a sudden this piece seems very doable!! I am very optimistic!
Muscle memory is mostly a con. The way to learn music is cognitive/mental/intellectual (whatever word you want to use) *understanding*. Everybody watching this video: if you rely on muscle memory and you want to play real pieces in the way real musicians do, you need to take the following steps. Learn the 12 major scales and the basically 12 (but 3 versions on each: natural, melodic and harmonic, but they're almost identical to each other so not a lot of work, don't get intimidated!) minor ones, and the chords that go with each scale. Basically the most important thing to know is that for major scales the I, IV and V chord will be Major, the others except for vii (which will be diminished) will be minor, and for minor scales, it is minor on i and iv, major on V, VI, and diminished on ii and vii, III will usually be major but sometimes augmented. IN other words, expect V to always be major in both major and minor key music, but occasionally V will be minor when playing in a minor key. Learn all these scales and chords, whether it takes you a day (unlikely), a week (unlikely but possible), a month, a year, or whatever. Always be studying and reviewing these, and as you get more familiar, learn to invert the chords. Once you have these building blocks, Always try to understand not only what chords and scales are used by the composer, but How everything you play reflects the standard Chord progression I-IV-V-I. Virturally everything you play will be a twist or elaboration on this simple pattern: I-IV-V-I. The chords on II and VI acts as substitutes for IV, and likewise III is an occasional substitute for V. (except when playing in a minor key, when III becomes a temporary new tonic as the relative major). The diminished chord on VII (which in fact is usually combined with V, then called V7, but can act as a substitute for it) has the same function as V. This is a slight over simplification. But Everything you play will be based on exactly these principles, and your musicianship becomes authentic musicianship precisely to the extent that you understand how the piece you are playing is activating these principles. It's easy to get intimidated, but don't fall into that trap and become reliant on muscle memory. Basically, it's like this: You could learn to recite a poem in a foreign language because it sounds pretty and you want to impress people, just by memorizing the sounds and repeating them over and over again until it sounds natural, without understanding a word you are saying. That is what playing by muscle memory is like. You can pull it off, but it is basically fake and it will prevent you from learning lots of pieces, just like learning a foreign language poem phonetically win't help you learn other poems in that language. But if you learn the theory-building block principles composers use to construct their pieces, you are learning music the authentic way as the composer intended you to learn it: they want and expect you to learn their actual language (scales and chords). If you do it the real, authentic way, you will find it much more rewarding, less fake, and it will enable you to learn more pieces faster, and to interpret them, properly, because you are communicating like a person who actually knows the language, rather than one faking a poem in a language he or she does not understand.
Good question! I personally use the terms cognitive and motor memory. Both are equally important for me. To make the best use of both, I try to apply what I've learned from neuroscientific research and cognitive psychology. What I found immensly interesting with regard to motor memory is the research of the Dutch neuroscientist Erik Scherder. He researches what happens in our brains when we make music. One thing he found is that people who learned to play an instrument and later developed Alzheimer can still play even if they are close to the final comatose stage of the disease. He discovered that a specific part of the brain is not affected by the disease. So all these hours and hours of practice will stay with us to the end! Another thing I learned is that techniques used in cognitive learning work equally well for learning complex motor skills. To give a practical example: yes, I also use slow practice, rhythms and moving objects from left to right, but also flashcards and everything you can do with these such as slicing and spaced repetition. I found that slicing in particular is very effective. To do this, you divide the piece in small sections, put each on a card, shuffle the cards, and then practice each card as they come for about 2 minutes. You are right. It's a huge subject but also very interessant. Thanks!
Love what you said about how posture in practice can affect posture when performing! I haven’t actually thought that through before like this, and it really makes sense the way said it. Thank you!
This video is incredibly helpful. Thankyou so much! Looking forward to more discussions on memorization. A combination of analytical and muscle memory usually works well for me. For small, fast sections I can rely on muscle memory but I’ve noticed that when the music is slower my muscle memory is far less reliable.
It's hard for me to learn it notes by notes, chords by chords, not to mention have to re read the sheet again which actually I am not very good at yet (I started learning just recently in my 30s XD XD), it's like a double effort for me, but when my short term becomes long-term memory (or muscle memory), it gets more and more enjoyable, love it!
That was an outstanding tutorial. As a beginner, I'm just finding my way in piano. There were so many great thinks pointed out in this video. thank you.
...so I think I understood you to say that since posture is important when playing, and since all behavior both at and away from the piano, ends up in muscle memory, that we must remember to sit up straight when away from the piano. I'm imagining you and a pianist friend having lunch and reminding each other to sit up, whenever either party's posture falters. I can't help but admire the discipline which goes into all this. My Hall and Oates repertoire is quite a bit less demanding to learn. :)
great video as usual! I really liked how you mentioned that fingering is a sort of choreography for the fingers, I think that's a very good point. Thank you for all the good advice!
Great video as always!!! Very much looking forward to part 2. I struggle much with identifying patterns which help me memorize the structure of a passage (liebestraum 3 cadenzas).
I’m currently learning Chopin’s Fantasie-Impromptu. You’re 1 minute/10 minute/60 minute video actually inspired me to do it. I have up to the Largo memorised and I found the biggest help there was different rhythms by just fitting the right hand with the triplets (long-long-short-short; long-short-short-long; short-short-long-long) and that helped immensely. The Largo isn’t as easy but I’ll try the 10 page method tomorrow! I’ve been doing about an hour a day on it since last Monday 😁
Thank you very much for sharing this valuable information, topics like these should always be exposed and important to develop as a pianist, I hope you continue uploading videos with topics like these. ❤️
Started playing piano in December as i got finally a piano for Christmas at 31 years old. Working on some pieces here and there but mainly on Moonlight Sonata 1st mvt. Almost ,only have 6 bars to master now but i can confirm muscle memory is just unbelievable :D Always repeat slowly to make sure to get the right movement with the right rythm then pacing up slowly . Love the videos lways learning something !
One technique I use is uneven rhythms which you discussed in this video. I find that uneven rhythms not only help with memorizing but helps make passages smooth and flowing even though the written times of each note are not all the same. Another technique I use is harmonic analysis. If a passage is actually a string of e-flat major chords played in arpeggios then knowing that helps me to commit it to memory. Another technique I learned recently is to memorize a piece starting at the end of the piece and learning sections that come at the end. As you learn a section you move to a new section that comes before it and working your way towards the beginning. This is useful if the piece is somewhat lengthy. If you learn a piece from beginning to end then the ending sections can be the parts you spend the least time on making it more likely that you might forget a passage at the end of the piece during a performance.
cheers from Berlin Kreuzberg ! haha I couldn't not subscribe when you "scheiße" at the end hahaha great tips, can't wait to see the next video ! especially because I'm at the beginning of my hopefully very long musical journey and this already answered many questions I had and probably the reason why this video was so requested is because somehow no body tells you these things, it seems like all teachers just throw you in the musical ocean for you to figure it out, but we should talk about these essential things even more! because many people surely have a great number of tips and tricks that could be super useful for so many people and make their journey that much easier (well easy is a poor choice of wording, let's see that much more enjoyable and less frustrating in the long run hehe)
I try to use a combination of muscle memory, visual memory, acoustic memory and brain/analytical memory (especially that) because to be honest when I used to be on stage I had many memory laps when I was depended mostly on my muscle memory. Nevertheless, I totally agree with the slow practice and if I may add: morning practice. The results are unbelievable if you practice slowly in the morning with a clear mind. Thank you for all your videos. You’re an inspiration!
Love this new series and the background music is nice. Also, I’ve heard of people using 10 coins instead of 10 pieces of paper which I thought was interesting because you can literally use anything for that technique!! I’m looking forward to the next video 🎶
I think for me it's a combination of knowing how the piece sounds and muscle memory. If I go into learning a piece I'm more familiar with, learning seems much easier since I have a general idea of what it's supposed to sound like. Then I just go from there and practice until I know the movements. Also I saw Sokolov live yesterday! It was very good. He played some amazing pieces like the Ab major Polonaise and the 10 preludes by Rach. Gave 3 encores too 🤣
It's crucial to avoid having to relearn anything -- fingering, notes, rhythms, etc. So I have said to my students "Practice does not make perfect; perfect practice makes easy." Getting the right fingering to begin with is the most important first step as is knowing the whole piece and doing both "whole learning" and "part learning". As soon as you play a note you are memorizing how it feels for that finger to play that note in that context.
Totally agree ---- no golden rule. And probably because not everyone is 'equal'. Some people are born with super ability and super memory. While normal (average people) don't have that same sort of memory - as in photographic type memory. And some people really appear to have the ability to reproduce more or less 'reliably' for every time they play a learned piece of music. While others ----- not the same situation. Although - it does sometimes come down to own determination and/or ability, and any help from advice from others to get better and better. But definitely ----- I can relate to the muscle memory. And it is true that - people that have special abilities (such as you Annique) generally have to practise very hard too - and the amazing results we see often comes from the incredible behind-the-scenes hard work that was put in. Anyway - really good (actually excellent) video.
I’m probably too much muscle memory and not enough semantics. I know exactly what you mean when you’re performing and any slight change of movement than what you’re used to, on top of the pressure of performing, makes me insecure and I’ll forget or mess up. So frustrating.
Thank you for this video, it is something that's not talked about enough I believe as memorisation can be very difficult. Every detail and getting that muscle memory is near impossible to get in the first place, let alone trying to perform the piece after remembering them!
Hmm not sure but I’ve noticed that there’s a real disconnect between playing fast pieces on tempo and practicing it on a slow tempo. Like all the flowing movements with your hands and arms just become way more different when you play it slowly sometimes. I think as an example if you’re playing fast you’re using the action of the keys to your advantage on the return of the key, kinda like bouncing on the keys. Just that small thing trickles down your whole body and the muscle memory thing. Just my 2 cents.
Team Muscle Memory or Team Semantic Memory? Tell me in the comments! :P
Memorization is such a big topic and everyone struggles with it - me too. As everyone's brain is working differently there is no "golden rule" of memorizing something. Generally I am working a lot with my muscle memory but I would combine it with other memory types and memorizing techniques - but this will be part of another video;P
Es ist schwer mit Worten zu beschreiben. Denn die Muskeln werden ja immer vom Gehirn aus angesteuert, haben kein eigenes Gedächtnis o. ä. Es geht wohl um verschiedene Bereiche bzw. Areale des Gehirns, die bei verschiedenen Methoden dominieren, zusammenarbeiten usw. Ich kann aber die künstliche Trennung bei der Beschreibung nachvollziehen. Mir fehlen die Worte. Für mich ist es ein Wunder, was das menschliche Gehirn, was mein Gehirn zu leisten vermag.
i love you Anik..
Thanks for a great start ..........
Very important topic.
Perhaps the most important of all?
I hope you dare to try to get to the bottom of this topic.
But you probably do not dare to be completely honest, regarding this very important topic for musicians and music.
But hope you try and wait anxiously for your final conclusions.
The subject has been circulating in my brain for approx. 60 years.
For me I prefer neither one nor the other...
The two will be very important together...
And by the way, I haven't seen you on your channel about Semantic Memory yet...
I'll be waiting...
Yeah has to be team both for me :) also with a smattering of somewhat unreliable photographic on top of it. Muscle memory is great, but getting lost in a piece where I didn't do the work of learning the harmonies is a terrifying thought.
Then again muscle memory is pretty rad - picking up some pieces I haven't touched in 15 years or more kind of flooded back really quickly. Still, learning better fingerings than I had at 16 still means more work 😂
It is silly how every time I can play something with muscle memory I get so much joy and impressed with myself like "how did I do that :0"
Sameeee lol
Lmao sameee
Same!!! :D
till the time to break the steps down ... wait what o.O 😂
For me, when I'm playing a piece I haven't been playing for a while, I am able to play it with muscle memory but the second I started to think about the music I'd forget how to play the piece.
Yes omg, when i start to think or look my hand i just blank and asked my self where my finger should go,but when i play by thinking other thing i just finished the piece 🤣
Same with me
That’s a bad memory habit. This is why you need to analyze music and do harmonic memorization, pattern memorization and 2-5 measure drilling to perfection. It’s well worth it especially if you learn to memorize each measure # and can begin the piece at ANY point some other person names
@@lucidviolin1298 What is 2-5 measure drilling? 🙂
@@guitarmartin1 just what it sounds like: you drill between two and five measures of a difficult spot to memorize and you just memorize it and drill it in different rhythms depending what type of acrobatics are happening. Helps you memorize it and perfected smoothly within 5 to 10 minutes depending on how hard it is and what level you’re at.
Out of my own experience, it is funny how you practice a part for hours, you get frustrated and so, and next day you play it like it is nothing 😂
That is what the brain is great, creating the connections that make it easier :)
Or the opposite. Something that just flows on Monday is a hot mess on Tuesday.
I think I relate to this.
Brain makes connections during rests. Try to rest every 20/40 minutes and you'll see you don't need to sleep to play better👀
The brain takes some time to create new neural pathways to establish a routine. Usually happens when we're sleeping.
Muscle memory for me, but sometimes it can play me tricks: I definitely struggle to catch the piece I've memorized at a random place, I always need to start from a "checkpoint", or even from the beginning.
And I noticed it's more blatant on slow pieces than faster or more technical ones.
Same here
same :c
The checkpoints! I couldn't put it to words until I read your comment, it's so accurate
Exactly! I do know how to explain myself now... thanks
Wow, this, so much this! My teacher told me once "start from measure 23". I lost it. I told him i cant. He said, "are you joking, you are playing it lightning fast and very well, why cant you start from there".
Some comments I could add to the nice and interesting video:
Muscle memory is essential. however it comes unconsciously. My advice after a lot of piano competition: It is very dangerous to rely only on this muscle memory if you need to play on stage:
With stress, piano new sounds, you may sometimes lose your “cool” and trust in your unconscious to find back automatically next note. At that moment , where your mind says “ danger”, you will have a hard time to stay in “unconscious mode” and your mind will switch in conscious mode and you will ask yourself:” it sounded strange. Isn’t it” ?“what is the next note? » « is it here or above? »
At this time it would be better to wish you learned your music in a « conscious” way. This is more preparation work but if you did the work, your mind is at peace that you know every piece of the score and will not start to doubt during your performance on stage.
The day I understood this solved all my memory issues in public
This so well explained. It is very hard to put words on feelings in general, especially when it comes with what happening in your head playing music, with lot of habits, under stress.
Yes this is what I have heard too but I’m so lost on where to start with learning “consciously”
Any advice?
These videos are literally worth thousands of euro/pounds/dollars. Thank you Annique for making this fantastic resource available. I am sure that you are encouraging many people to up their musical game significantly.
I've never had trouble memorizing music with any composer EXCEPT BACH! He is the only one I struggle with and now I want to memorize one prelude and one fugue for an audition in the end of May. Wish me luck 😅
In addition to what you discuss, which is all quite helpful, I'm a fan of introducing novelty into the learning and memorization processes.
For example, I enjoy memorizing in retrograde, starting at the end of the piece and gradually making my way back to the beginning section by section while always playing to the end.
Not only does this provide a novel perspective on the piece (like looking at a painting upside down), but it can sometimes undo the very normal outcome of learning a piece in a linear way which results in knowing earlier material better than later material. In theory, one should know a piece equally well across every note of every measure of every phrase or every section or every movement.
As another example, I will often make difficult sections of a piece into a finger exercise through simple manipulation like sequencing and inversion, in addition to rhythmic manipulation/development in the way you do.
Transposition or tonal sequencing exercises are a classic way to get to know the unique shape and feel of any given figure or gesture.
Finally, I love playing along with my favorite performers. I was going back to play some old Schubert repertoire a few months ago, and decided to play along with Murray Pariah's interpretation of the piece, his ideas about dynamic and tempo expression, his ideas about voicings and obscured melodies.
Hearing his details very much helped me think about the importance of every note, every rest, every dynamic and articulation, every tempo change. It's a bit like trying a dish cooked by a great chef in order to help you connect with your own cooking.
Great videos, keep up the good work!
I have also done learning in reverse. Usually the most difficult parts are more towards the end, so you end up repeating them more often if you start learning from the end
13:52
>watches her try to remember the word memory
Why is that such a mood.
A superb video going into great detail. Most people are not as aware of what they are doing as she is. I found that I was visually memorizing where my hands were. Not good Enough!
Muscle memory mainly and Harmony. Not all times, for example in first sonata movements and rondos, romantic trios, etc I could memorize diferents sections. Ive been doing it for many many years so.
Currently doing this for singing and it's helping my voice tremendously. I am learning guitar and piano as well. Once you get a good coach that shoes you how to access muscle memory the sky is the limit. It took me many years to understand this and its more intuitive than anything. I am doing all kinds of research on how to build it right.
this is so true and one of the difficulties pianists encounter when performing: the piano on stage is not the same as the one you practice with and this messes up your muscle memory. Thankyou for your advice!
Ich habe in diesem einzigen Video mehr gelernt als in einem ganzen Jahre Klavierunterricht. Weil es so grundlegende Dinge sind, die einem für jedes Stück nützlich sind. Danke!
Thank you! I spend everyday of my life for last 2 1/2 years non stressing my physical body. Use my mind more but even focus on not over bearing my vision while sight reading. No clutching of hands ever. My Mother told me not to ever clutch your hands when you sleep when I was 8 years old. It's a habit with me when I awake at night that my hands are relaxed. Good practice! I love this lesson as it contains so much useful insight that should be common sense...but must be discovered. Wish you were giving zoom lessons. I take from a Gifted Ukrainian teacher from Chicago and a Master Taubman Teacher off and on. I live in Los Angeles. Thank you again for sharing your craft especially about muscle memory and posture.
I can relate to many comments here. I'm totally strong with muscle memory but sometimes I wish I wasn't as it brings a lot of difficulties. Pieces I learned way back ago I hardly can change now and some parts get realy sloppy over time. Also I can play in very high speed without even strain much but also over time I don't realy now what I am doing and to play it slowly or give the music a different shape isn't possible. I try to learn more semantic and analytical now.
Thank you for your focus on the whole body muscle memory though. This realy is enlightening and might weeken the struggles I have with muscle memory as for me the things I memorize slowly drift out of consciousness it makes totally sense to be conscious of every movement all the time.
Neurologists and neurologists and psychologists use a term different from muscle memory for this. When your brain first encounters a topic it is reflected in wide stimulation of neurons. As you practice, the neurons stimulated become fewer and fewer but the neurons stimulated carry or store more and more information. When you recall the information, it is more economical for as few neurons as possible to work. This process is called adaptation and consolidation. See a brief essay, seven and a half lessons on your brain by Feldman-Barrett.
Merry Christmas Annique 😇🚭🏆📽️☕🌊♀️🛡️🎼🌹🧈🍿🎄🥧🎥🌟💫🍯✨🎊🕛🫶🥰🏡🌐🥇🎹Muscle Memory!😊
This is super useful. Not only does it give great suggestions, but it also gives a lot of insight on how a high level pianist practices. Sometimes it gets frustrating to spend so much time practicing and show so little progress. More!
Years ago, I hadn't watched any RUclips videos for advice. Not a lot of this advice would have occurred to me. I've watched lots of videos in the last 18 months and am pleased to say lots of your techniques come to me naturally now. I understand the reasons why to use them.
Thank you. It gives me new ideas and motivates me.
I play alot with muscle memory 😂 But i struggle sometimes... when i get to some trouble parts, because
i can't remember right and start to try to rebuild (this happens sometimes in pieces i play like 10 times fluently till i get to this fudge moment 😬😂) ... before i take a
serious look at the notes.
Then i should get deeper again and stich every finger / note with a though.
And the experience with another location i also did sometimes... at home it works and works
and then i get some audience in another room and all the different things like lights, wall and surrounding disturbed me so much i could not play even
it felt like... the piano is not the piano i used to play... well of course it is different... but... it was like... it use not the same key seize and so on 😬😂🙈
Great video! 💜
There are several RUclips videos on memorization, but this one is the best. I´m ¨stuck¨ using only muscle memory, so I look forward to the next installment. Brava! --Chuck
Tanks for sharing your experience and tips...
I remember one teacher told me that there are three memories: 1) of the sound, 2) the fingers and 3) the gesture. Usually one can help each other in case of failure.
You are also 100% right, we are always boring in playing slowly, but this is the key to the way to play faster in fact.
Also, there’s a huge difference between “practicing slowly” and “practicing in slow motion”. When practicing in slow motion, you play as if you’re a video recording slowed down. It’s a completely different feeling. It’s much more like playing fast and it’s much easier to speed up.
Thank you for raising this interesting subject. There are many forms, or types, of memory, which are linked to our basic human senses. For crafts, artistry and music, I submit that it's how one's brain shifts between procedural memory, i.e., long-term memory that recalls how we do things physically and mentally, and working/short-term memory. The human brain is a fascinating labyrinth of complex processors and sensors.
This is really interesting - I've never given thought to how I memorise pieces, it always just kind of happened. So I suppose muscle memory is how I work. I absolutely get what you mean about differences causing insecurities. It's like suddenly everything is so different and feels incredibly unfamiliar! You put it a great way.
That paper exercise also reminded me of a similar thing a teacher showed me, basically forcing you to go back to the start to try and embed new changes in memory.
Keep up the great videos!
Incredible, i clicked on this video because i was planning to memorize op 10 n4 and that's the piece you use as an example :D . Your methods are brillant and i see you really are a good disciplinarian despite the appearances and that is influencing my practice excellently to get results.
Very good information. Love watching you and the real struggles you have in the art.
wow great 😊
This is so helpful! I have a serious issue with not being able to memorize pieces. I self taught for 15 years, and mostly sight read everything. It wasn’t until recently I started taking lessons that I started practicing the way you’re describing. It’s helping so much! I should really try practicing with different rhythms too because I haven’t done that yet but can definitely see the benefit of it.
Side note - I really enjoy your videos!
Great topic!
Hope for Part 2, thanks Annique!
What you say I want to confirm. It is quite true to practice slowly and the other things you said. However, I am always amazed to see how perfectly pianists play by heart. I also point at other aspects who can influence badly: not sleeping very well, you are tired, you feel a little headache, it is very hot, and so forth. I am a professional concert organist. All the very good professinal organists do not play by heart. They always have notes to look at. I do not know if you want to answer but how long does it take for a very good pianist without fotografic memory to play for instance the second piano concerto of Rachmaninov by heart?
I always visualise the piece as a whole... and the muscle memory just kicks in. After practicing a lot I just remember where my hands should go.
lol and i learnt myself. which is why I’m watching this.
I learned once about 4 memories. Muscle, visual, semantic (theoretical) and by ear. I loved what you mentioned about every single muscle in your body remembers what you repeat.. even the way you breath, tje way you feel, that's why if you are nervous for a presentation your muscle memory may fall apart!
That is one of the reasons why I am eagerly waiting for part 2 and 3 .... and part 4 and maybe I hope it a part 5 or more on this topic?
I can not see in my theory books or remember that it has been reviewed during my own music education?
So very very important topic.
Practice + Sleep => Muscle Memory
I suffered a lot in this Op 10#4 during my studies. Now 25 years later I came across the correct wrist movements which are actually quite straightforward, and all of a sudden this piece seems very doable!! I am very optimistic!
Muscle memory is mostly a con. The way to learn music is cognitive/mental/intellectual (whatever word you want to use) *understanding*. Everybody watching this video: if you rely on muscle memory and you want to play real pieces in the way real musicians do, you need to take the following steps. Learn the 12 major scales and the basically 12 (but 3 versions on each: natural, melodic and harmonic, but they're almost identical to each other so not a lot of work, don't get intimidated!) minor ones, and the chords that go with each scale. Basically the most important thing to know is that for major scales the I, IV and V chord will be Major, the others except for vii (which will be diminished) will be minor, and for minor scales, it is minor on i and iv, major on V, VI, and diminished on ii and vii, III will usually be major but sometimes augmented. IN other words, expect V to always be major in both major and minor key music, but occasionally V will be minor when playing in a minor key. Learn all these scales and chords, whether it takes you a day (unlikely), a week (unlikely but possible), a month, a year, or whatever. Always be studying and reviewing these, and as you get more familiar, learn to invert the chords.
Once you have these building blocks, Always try to understand not only what chords and scales are used by the composer, but How everything you play reflects the standard Chord progression I-IV-V-I. Virturally everything you play will be a twist or elaboration on this simple pattern: I-IV-V-I. The chords on II and VI acts as substitutes for IV, and likewise III is an occasional substitute for V. (except when playing in a minor key, when III becomes a temporary new tonic as the relative major). The diminished chord on VII (which in fact is usually combined with V, then called V7, but can act as a substitute for it) has the same function as V.
This is a slight over simplification. But Everything you play will be based on exactly these principles, and your musicianship becomes authentic musicianship precisely to the extent that you understand how the piece you are playing is activating these principles. It's easy to get intimidated, but don't fall into that trap and become reliant on muscle memory.
Basically, it's like this: You could learn to recite a poem in a foreign language because it sounds pretty and you want to impress people, just by memorizing the sounds and repeating them over and over again until it sounds natural, without understanding a word you are saying. That is what playing by muscle memory is like. You can pull it off, but it is basically fake and it will prevent you from learning lots of pieces, just like learning a foreign language poem phonetically win't help you learn other poems in that language. But if you learn the theory-building block principles composers use to construct their pieces, you are learning music the authentic way as the composer intended you to learn it: they want and expect you to learn their actual language (scales and chords). If you do it the real, authentic way, you will find it much more rewarding, less fake, and it will enable you to learn more pieces faster, and to interpret them, properly, because you are communicating like a person who actually knows the language, rather than one faking a poem in a language he or she does not understand.
There are three different memory aspects that make up the total memory! 1 touch sense (muscle memory) 2 visual memory, 3 Aural memory.
Good question! I personally use the terms cognitive and motor memory. Both are equally important for me. To make the best use of both, I try to apply what I've learned from neuroscientific research and cognitive psychology. What I found immensly interesting with regard to motor memory is the research of the Dutch neuroscientist Erik Scherder. He researches what happens in our brains when we make music. One thing he found is that people who learned to play an instrument and later developed Alzheimer can still play even if they are close to the final comatose stage of the disease. He discovered that a specific part of the brain is not affected by the disease. So all these hours and hours of practice will stay with us to the end!
Another thing I learned is that techniques used in cognitive learning work equally well for learning complex motor skills. To give a practical example: yes, I also use slow practice, rhythms and moving objects from left to right, but also flashcards and everything you can do with these such as slicing and spaced repetition. I found that slicing in particular is very effective. To do this, you divide the piece in small sections, put each on a card, shuffle the cards, and then practice each card as they come for about 2 minutes.
You are right. It's a huge subject but also very interessant. Thanks!
Love what you said about how posture in practice can affect posture when performing! I haven’t actually thought that through before like this, and it really makes sense the way said it. Thank you!
This video is incredibly helpful. Thankyou so much! Looking forward to more discussions on memorization.
A combination of analytical and muscle memory usually works well for me. For small, fast sections I can rely on muscle memory but I’ve noticed that when the music is slower my muscle memory is far less reliable.
Is there a part 2? Part.1 was superb of course
I like to memorize I phrase at at times very slowly on a loop. Still hours and hours of work!!
Please do Hungarian Rhapsody No2 Friska!!!
Edit:LOVE your videos btw
Agree. That is a good idea!
She did this already! 👍👍
Maybe because of your request!?!🥰
@@sideglance thx
It's hard for me to learn it notes by notes, chords by chords, not to mention have to re read the sheet again which actually I am not very good at yet (I started learning just recently in my 30s XD XD), it's like a double effort for me, but when my short term becomes long-term memory (or muscle memory), it gets more and more enjoyable, love it!
Fantastic video !
Great work !
That was an outstanding tutorial. As a beginner, I'm just finding my way in piano. There were so many great thinks pointed out in this video. thank you.
5:05 At this moment I straightened my back. Thank you for video!
a heart from her will made my day, super duper love your videos ♥♥♥♥
Team muscle memory for sure! It was a very interesting video thank you for all the tips!
You are an inspiration.
From one Concert Pianist to another-great job!👏👏🎹
Amazing 😃 very informative 🎶. Thanks for sharing 🙃. Muscle memory alright. Next next part 2😃
I love this video. Such valuable insights into this extremely difficult art.
...so I think I understood you to say that since posture is important when playing, and since all behavior both at and away from the piano, ends up in muscle memory, that we must remember to sit up straight when away from the piano. I'm imagining you and a pianist friend having lunch and reminding each other to sit up, whenever either party's posture falters. I can't help but admire the discipline which goes into all this. My Hall and Oates repertoire is quite a bit less demanding to learn. :)
great video as usual! I really liked how you mentioned that fingering is a sort of choreography for the fingers, I think that's a very good point. Thank you for all the good advice!
thank you for this amazing video! i'm looking forward to your part 2 soon!
Vielen Dank! Sehr interessant, wie Du das empfindest - sehr wertvoll! Bin auf die weiteren Videos in dieser Reihe gespannt. 😃
Excellent! Thank you very much for sharing with us.
When part 2? I can't wait!!
Great video as always!!! Very much looking forward to part 2. I struggle much with identifying patterns which help me memorize the structure of a passage (liebestraum 3 cadenzas).
Thank you so much, Annique! Waiting for next part!
I’m currently learning Chopin’s Fantasie-Impromptu. You’re 1 minute/10 minute/60 minute video actually inspired me to do it. I have up to the Largo memorised and I found the biggest help there was different rhythms by just fitting the right hand with the triplets (long-long-short-short; long-short-short-long; short-short-long-long) and that helped immensely. The Largo isn’t as easy but I’ll try the 10 page method tomorrow! I’ve been doing about an hour a day on it since last Monday 😁
Applied this today and now have the whole piece from memory! Thanks for your tips 😄
Thank you very much for sharing this valuable information, topics like these should always be exposed and important to develop as a pianist, I hope you continue uploading videos with topics like these. ❤️
Great video! Very insightful. I hope you make more like this in the future!
Started playing piano in December as i got finally a piano for Christmas at 31 years old. Working on some pieces here and there but mainly on Moonlight Sonata 1st mvt. Almost ,only have 6 bars to master now but i can confirm muscle memory is just unbelievable :D Always repeat slowly to make sure to get the right movement with the right rythm then pacing up slowly . Love the videos lways learning something !
I found this really useful - lots of excellent advice here. Thank you.
Your suggestions are a wonderful reminder of my early piano lessons with Eloise Niwa and Adolf Herseth (both with Chicago Symphony). Valuable stuff!!
One technique I use is uneven rhythms which you discussed in this video. I find that uneven rhythms not only help with memorizing but helps make passages smooth and flowing even though the written times of each note are not all the same.
Another technique I use is harmonic analysis. If a passage is actually a string of e-flat major chords played in arpeggios then knowing that helps me to commit it to memory.
Another technique I learned recently is to memorize a piece starting at the end of the piece and learning sections that come at the end. As you learn a section you move to a new section that comes before it and working your way towards the beginning. This is useful if the piece is somewhat lengthy. If you learn a piece from beginning to end then the ending sections can be the parts you spend the least time on making it more likely that you might forget a passage at the end of the piece during a performance.
Very important: Practicing slowly!!!
I LOVE this videooo
Thank you very much! The rhythm method seems very good, was searching for something like that!
cheers from Berlin Kreuzberg ! haha I couldn't not subscribe when you "scheiße" at the end hahaha great tips, can't wait to see the next video ! especially because I'm at the beginning of my hopefully very long musical journey and this already answered many questions I had and probably the reason why this video was so requested is because somehow no body tells you these things, it seems like all teachers just throw you in the musical ocean for you to figure it out, but we should talk about these essential things even more! because many people surely have a great number of tips and tricks that could be super useful for so many people and make their journey that much easier (well easy is a poor choice of wording, let's see that much more enjoyable and less frustrating in the long run hehe)
I try to use a combination of muscle memory, visual memory, acoustic memory and brain/analytical memory (especially that) because to be honest when I used to be on stage I had many memory laps when I was depended mostly on my muscle memory. Nevertheless, I totally agree with the slow practice and if I may add: morning practice. The results are unbelievable if you practice slowly in the morning with a clear mind. Thank you for all your videos. You’re an inspiration!
I really need part 2. That was helpful
I learned and play the piano on my own and this have been very helpful
Great insight on these somewhat
Maybe overlooked factors.
It's very helpful Annique ❤️ I need this vídeo.
Love this new series and the background music is nice. Also, I’ve heard of people using 10 coins instead of 10 pieces of paper which I thought was interesting because you can literally use anything for that technique!! I’m looking forward to the next video 🎶
🥰Thank you for this teaching.
I will practice soon as my piano come next week.
Greeting from Netherland.
Some great advice in here. I never thought of muscle memory being a whole body thing before. It was obvious when you pointed it out.
Catching mistakes early is good. Muscle memory of wrong notes is hard to undo. I'm still trying to fix my wrong notes in gymnopedie 1.
Please continue those kind of videos
It really really help me !!!🙏🙏
Thankyou, I have improvised music though not done very much from memory without music scores
I think for me it's a combination of knowing how the piece sounds and muscle memory. If I go into learning a piece I'm more familiar with, learning seems much easier since I have a general idea of what it's supposed to sound like. Then I just go from there and practice until I know the movements.
Also I saw Sokolov live yesterday! It was very good. He played some amazing pieces like the Ab major Polonaise and the 10 preludes by Rach. Gave 3 encores too 🤣
Loved the outtakes! Nice video, thanks! I must try more rhythms..
Great video, I will try the sheet-exercise you showed at the end,...
ngl I would love to have someone like you as my teacher because your just so straightforward! ❤️ 😃 🎹
It's crucial to avoid having to relearn anything -- fingering, notes, rhythms, etc. So I have said to my students "Practice does not make perfect; perfect practice makes easy." Getting the right fingering to begin with is the most important first step as is knowing the whole piece and doing both "whole learning" and "part learning". As soon as you play a note you are memorizing how it feels for that finger to play that note in that context.
Totally agree ---- no golden rule. And probably because not everyone is 'equal'. Some people are born with super ability and super memory. While normal (average people) don't have that same sort of memory - as in photographic type memory. And some people really appear to have the ability to reproduce more or less 'reliably' for every time they play a learned piece of music. While others ----- not the same situation. Although - it does sometimes come down to own determination and/or ability, and any help from advice from others to get better and better. But definitely ----- I can relate to the muscle memory. And it is true that - people that have special abilities (such as you Annique) generally have to practise very hard too - and the amazing results we see often comes from the incredible behind-the-scenes hard work that was put in. Anyway - really good (actually excellent) video.
Thank your so much for memorizing! I love to memorize!
Muscle memory all the way! Although semantic memory comes to be very useful and I guess one can say they both go hand in hand. :D
I’m probably too much muscle memory and not enough semantics. I know exactly what you mean when you’re performing and any slight change of movement than what you’re used to, on top of the pressure of performing, makes me insecure and I’ll forget or mess up. So frustrating.
Muscle Memory makes the world go round
part 2? i need more this one was incredible!
Thank you for this video, it is something that's not talked about enough I believe as memorisation can be very difficult. Every detail and getting that muscle memory is near impossible to get in the first place, let alone trying to perform the piece after remembering them!
Hmm not sure but I’ve noticed that there’s a real disconnect between playing fast pieces on tempo and practicing it on a slow tempo. Like all the flowing movements with your hands and arms just become way more different when you play it slowly sometimes. I think as an example if you’re playing fast you’re using the action of the keys to your advantage on the return of the key, kinda like bouncing on the keys. Just that small thing trickles down your whole body and the muscle memory thing. Just my 2 cents.
I like the piece of paper method, sounds good
Yeah