Andrew Scheps & Fab Dupont discuss mixing with headphones
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- In this Puremix.com free video exclusive, world-renowned mixing engineers, Andrew Scheps and Fab Dupont sit down to discuss how they incorporate headphones into their workflow, how they started mixing in headphones, and how you can use headphones to your advantage.
Hang out with Andrew and Fab as they discuss:
- Why they started mixing on headphones
- Translation from headphones to speakers
- Correction and spatialization software
- Deciding on vocal level in headphones
- The benefits of mixing in headphones
- Using headphones to consistently get the low end of your mix right
00:00 Introduction
00:39 - Why Would You Mix On Headphones?
07:05 - Should You Mix For Headphones?
07:49 - How Do Mixes Translate To Speakers?
16:02 - Why Do Headphones Have A Bad Rap?
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Everytime I see an Andrew Scheps interview, I feel like he's overall telling me that things are going to be ok. And I like it! (Not to dismiss all the great knowledge he shares, of course)
I feel exactly the same thing! He's kind of like the Bob Ross of mixing.
He always reminds me of my best college professors. Everything he talks about I just understand afterwards, it's not me memorizing what he said, I understand what he was talking about and why it makes sense. My mixes are still not great, but I think they're getting better because of him. haha.
@@station65music55 I was going to say that too. But If listen to him without looking, he sounds like John Malkovich.
Good to see I wasn't the only one
@@johnott193 III y el u
No other mix engineer keeps it as real as Andrew Scheps does.
Absolutely.
I think the most important part to hear is 11:30: Make the headphones a part of your mixing process. Just like adding another pair of studio monitors, headphones give you another window. I think of headphones as the engineer's microscope, especially for amateur mixers working from poorly treated rooms. For instance I have found it impossible to precisely mix in ambient drum samples into a dry drum while listening to my Genelecs or NS10s. And I have spent lots of money on treatment. On headphones I IMMEDIATELY hear the changes the ambient sample make and can dial them in just right. Same with low end on kick. I also use what Schep uses, Sony MDR 7506. $100 a pair.
Andrew Schepps is a real thinker. He defies all of the arguments based on his results and logical argument. We need more like him.
I started mixing on headphones almost exclusively from home a few years ago because of the less than optimal acoustics, but didn’t tell anyone, because of the stigma. Needless to say, once I got used to them, people have said the mixes sound better than they used to. Nice to get some backup here.
To be frank, i love mixing on speakers, but the mixes I do on my headphones always sound better, i also use reference mix when mixing on headphones, and it allows me to understand the sound better. As my studio is in my bedroom with a horrible, or more precise, none acoustic treatment, i can't trust my speakers :)
Same thing here (meaning: didn't at first tell anyone, started to get super good feedback, then started to talk about it and found out a lot of people are in the same boat :) )
Awesome!
Me too. I use reference tracks.
@@arthurmee Ya, reference tracks are important and very helpful.
“If it’s on the internet it’s true. If you don’t see it, it’s not true.” Love this 😤
“If you don’t see it, you don’t know it” 😂
Ahaha yah
Andrew is my hero..he's a humble, and realistic, genius.
Andrew is absolutely awesome. Most engineers think that THEIR way to work is THE way to work. I love when Andrew mentions that whatever works for you IS a good approach. Coming from one among the best in the world, it makes me feel less weirdo about the way I do things.
I absolutely love his philosophy. He's so matter of fact and very, "as long as you get there in the end, what's the difference?" It's like...cut the BS and just do the thing.
He just said he's listened to the same headphones for 20 years...there's your explanation. Awesome video !
True, but I ask myself if it worked from the beginning, then Why Not?
Finally Andrew articulated the conclusion that I came to every time I considered dropping $10-20k of renovations to modify my home studio. 1 I was never going to get it perfect and in fact was wasting my money to chase the perfect acoustic environment. Instead Eliminate the variables , buy flat monitors and comfortable flat head sets, then calibrate your interpretation of your mixes. Thank you gentlemen!
What flat monitors would you recommend? What flat headphones would you recommend?
It’s not blasphemy if a pro like Scheps does it. Thank you for the detailed insight on something that a bunch of so-called “pros” talk down on!
I've been mixing on headphones for about 6 or so years now. The reasons why I started mixing and writing on headphones is avoiding annoying my neighbors of course and I enjoyed the intimacy with the music in headphones. The only issue I still come across is a few elements being out of balance with each other, which I go back and forth from headphones to my speakers for. 80-90% of my mixing and writing is done with a $99 pair of headphones.
Which one headphones do you use if I can know?
@@kosta3212 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro
Honestly, the only ones I like.
Invest in good open back headphones and your mixes will improve.
Lol there’s always a guy like Clyde. Use whatever headphones help you make good decisions.
I have always mixed the same way: start in monitors, continue in pro type headphones, continue in my consumer bud headphones, continue in my consumer stereo speakers, back to pro monitors.... If there is another set of speakers or headphones available, I will always check it in them. I check it in as many different systems and places as I can. that helps me get over the fact that I have no treated room, and also the fact that I'm not the most amazing mixer in the world. But in the end, it gets the job done for me.
I came back to this video since it's upload 2 years ago. Priceless insights from two veterans. Probably the most important video on headphones out there.
The very first mix I ever did was done almost entirely with Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro headphones. And to this day, I begin all of my mixes with them and use them as my main reference.
I have so much love for these two people even though I've never met them. Thank you for getting them together
I love this. I’m a producer/writer more than a mix engineer (so grain of salt) and my experience has been that the best listening environment is the one you know best. After that, get some second opinions (car, earbuds, different speakers etc). If it still feels good in other environments, then it is good :)
I love how these two don't quite agree, so we get the benefit of two perspectives and how they relate.
That was so mentally freeing. I appreciate that conversation.
I started mixing on headphones 🎧 after we lost our place and had to live with other people. Once we were on our feet again we moved into an apartment where I also decided to keep my monitors in storage until we were able to buy a home nine months later. By the time we bought our home I had become accustomed to doing all of my mixes through headphones. I now only use my monitors for playback reference. I love mixing through headphones. I also don't use room correction software.
Same here once I got accustomed to headphones I only use monitors for reference but rarely work on em to me mix on headphones always has a better balance and is more precise and low end is just on point
Yep,open back headphones and only listen to speakers for the perspective of translation.
I've gone through school, moved around the globe, and under gone 4 large moves, and my Sony MDR 7506's have stood the test of time over and over again. And exactly...."what he said."
They last. But they are too bright. Have a very weak soundstage, and the ear pads wear out really fast. I have 9 pairs.. they are just average.
@@morbidmanmusic for sure agree with this. They feel a bit harsh to me, but they’re a staple. Some HD600s are my favorite for mixing.
@@morbidmanmusic absolutely, they are average. And thats what I can rely on them to be, a solid average.
Amazing conversation! Please do more of this
We've been mixing and mastering on HD800s since day one. Couldn't be happier. Superb interview. Thanks, Andrew and Fab.
Those are more expensive than a pair of nice end monitors, I think I am going to die without using the HD800s...
Excellent talk!
The two different minds brought out all the questions and points that needed to be covered.
👍👍👍
Tthank you so much for that PureMix!!!!!
Andrews opening statement is gold. If it turns out you dont read that statement, than it doesnt apply to you. This is true on so many levels. We have to try things for ourselves to truly see whats possible. Many guidelines or parameters are setup as good starting points but we can do anything anyway we want and have it come off professional. We dont have to follow any sort of standard. Some standards might be good to know or practice but nothing is ever end all be all. Its endless experimenting to even outdo what is a current professional standard. Thats what pushes the envelope.
I heard Finneas explaining how his sister records her vocals holding the mic in her hands ( and there are videos where you can see it while she is sitting on her bed ) Folks, whatever works.
“Whatever works” is generally what people say when they’re too lazy to learn the right way! Only drive 140 mph once you know the speed limit and the curves of the road....don’t justify lazy recklessness! That said If we all waited to learn music theory and how to mix before we started we wouldn’t ever get started but it’s unfortunately common that people go from knowing nothing to being know it alls that refuse to go back and learn the proper way to write, record and mix songs after they get a few people who like their music (or at least didn’t say it was garbage)....break the rules once you know them and why they are the standard. Break the rules only when you are making a better choice! For instance, holding the mic in your hands is pretty pointless and is nothing to brag about. It could hurt your vocal recording if you aren’t holding still and serves no purpose that I can think of. In fact I didn’t know she did that but it explains why she always sounds too close to the mic & haunts my soul with her weird ass whispery (yet boxy and unsubtle) music...
Andrew Scheps saying “whatever works for you” has a completely different meaning than your bedroom producer buddy or local SoundCloud rapper saying that....Andrew says that after years of trial and error, studying other people’s workflow and testing what actually works best for him. Most others are justifying bad habits they’ve had from day one when they didn’t have a clue what they were doing and have music that doesn’t hit like it could if they stopped trying to take shortcuts. It’s also one thing when the industry standard calls for $50,000 ducks to monitor your mix on vs $100 pair of headphones, but most of the time the difference is $0.00 and people are just too egotistical or lazy to look up a five minute video on how it’s done properly! Especially with recording and mixing there is objectively a right way and a wrong way to do a lot of shit. You can’t mute a channel then try to tell me that you can “feel it maan”....it’s muted, scientifically, 100%, no if’s and’s or but’s, period! The things you can do on your master buss without ruining the song for instance are far more limited than the endless number of ways you could fuck it up! That’s where knowing the standard way can help save you a lot of time and headaches. Saying “whatever works” has led to far far more undisciplined garbage than hits and it’s time it’s said! Mixing is hardly strenuous work (it’s frustrating but you aren’t gonna break a sweat unless you’re really out of shape) so why not at least attempt to work as hard and as professionally on your music as a miner does at the mine or a carpenter does at the construction site. I don’t know about you but I’d rather buy the house built by pros who did it the right way than some guy who tells me “whatever works” while he stands proudly outside the dilapidated shack he just built!
As mentioned above I use a damn cheap Skullcandy small ear piece things that go in ears...
Whatever works!
@@logicalconceptofficial I didn't read the entire two comments you wrote but please don't call Finneas and Billie Eilish lazy or "your bedroom producer buddy".
I think they have shown that even when they were broke that they could bring out great songs with whatever worked for them at the time.
If you are going to reply with a long comment I won't read it btw.
@@maskedgamer7565 you do realize their mom is worth a couple mill, right? This whole “broke” strategy really caught on for them. Lol
Andrew just chilling with no shoes on. Makes perfect sense.
I am so blessed by learning many details about audio engineering from this genius man! I really admire him and following his footsteps...Love you Andrew Scheps and god bless you sir!
Wonderful insight and perspective from two really talented, experienced professionals. Thank you x 2!!!
0:24 best headphone mixing motivation 🙏🏼 “if it’s on the internet, it’s true, but if you don’t see it, it’s not on the internet”
Wow - I have to mix on headphones and then check on speakers and it is always the vocal reverbs and level that I have to alter. This was a reassuring bit of chat. Cheers
Wow exactly what I was hoping to hear and more!
This was so helpful. I as too have been mixing with a small JBL speaker for overall levels, as well as mixing in headphones to get pans correct. Works great. I'm also in a small apartment with terrible acoustics so my Rokit 5's are definitely outta the question.
This is really interesting, to hear from two professionals of this caliber talking realistically about headphones and mixing, too often you just hear technical information and why or why not to do this.With todays audio environment being what it is and professional level studios being at a minimum, mixing this way has in part become a necessity and more widely accepted, but lets not lose sight of the fact that when you have the kind of professional experience these guys have then your mixing decisions are far more accurate and calculated than the average!
FD - I read everywhere that you can't mix on headphones
AS - It turns out If you don't read that, then you don't know that and you can just do it!! 🔥🔥
Andrew is so adaptable. First ITB and now headphones. He convinced me to try it too.
Ever since i moved to an apartment, i switched from working on monitors to headphones. I had such a difficult time getting my mix right. After a couple years, my mixes have gotten so much better. Much more balanced. Less pluggins are being used. More contrast. All because of this man, God Scheps
loved the tip about mixing in headphones, going to listen on speakers, then go back to fix changes in headphones. i always made changes in speakers and headphones constantly messing myself up or mix in each and then see which one i liked better. lol thank you ANDREW!
Andrew is "da-man".. Love his simplicity and practicism. Cheers!
The Engineers Engineer :) his work on the Low Roar albums is just sublime - so beautiful. I love listening to him talk and I trust what he says :) cheers Mr Scheps !
This was an absolute treat. Truly insightful.
I love the chairs, they look so comfortable. You guys deserve it.. keep up the awesome works..
Dude, I was 12:30 into the video before I noticed how awesome/absurd those chairs are.. 😳🤣😂🤣
Reassuring stuff! I really feel I can hear and adjust the minutiae in headphones better than my (half decent) monitors. Plus I'm usually working late at night and my studio (dining room) is below my daughter's room so blasting it is not an option! Definitely reassuring to hear a great saying they do a lot of their mixing in cans!!
We do appreciate you both
So nice talk about headphones, thank you 🙏. After cheking my mid frequance mix, i go to my little bluetooth transmitter setup and continuous mixing on Jabra 75t earbuds headphones.
I think Andrew and Fab have just saved me a good few hundred pounds as I was looking at some monitors on my less than ideal mixing space. Also love that Andrew is sooooo relaxed that he’s wearing only socks on his feet. Legend!
Finalmente os famosos produtores estão falando disso. Adorei! Desde que comecei a mixar de fones as minhas produções se tornaram profissionais.
I tried the mdr-7506 for mixing, they were very comfortable and sound great in the low end. To my ears, my particular pair had a significant resonance around the 3khz area making some material difficult to mix.
Thank you so much for this information.
I wasn't wrong choosing to mix on headphones than my speakers.
Awesome Video! Thanks for the input!
Great video, this is how these conversations should take place.
“I’m abstracting myself from the process, and I’m really just listening.” -Andrew Scheps
Wow that was profound..
So happy to see this video. I've always refused to believe mixing could not be done on headphones, so I have been able to do it.
Great stuff Donny!!
I haven’t been mixing for all that long, about 10 years or so but I’ve always felt like I do a better job on headphones. Ive also gotten better at treating my room which has helped my mixes on speakers but the fine detail with headphones is where my comfort is. I don’t have super high end monitors (Barefoot 01) so that might be part of it but I no longer feel like “I’m doing this wrong” because I spend most of my mixing time in headphones.
I heavily rely on headphone for mixing. I've been mixing this way for months now, and I must say the sound is closer to me and I can really ear what am doing. There is a sweet spot for every Frequency so having headphones get you really close to the sweet spot. and yes as Andrew said I dont have any sound Id or reference 4, just pure headphones.
Yes yes yes. Thank you. I love mixing on headphones.
I really enjoyed this conversation
Great conversation!
Thank You Mr Scheps !!! Really thank you to correct my thinking !!!
I was curious and bought a pair of the Sonys a couple of years ago and happily mix on them. I find I need to work a little on the bass end, reverb level and vocal level afterwards on speakers, but only a 5 minute tweak. Very convenient!
i do mixing sessions handing out headphones or often tell people to bring their own cans if they are good and they know them well, works like a charm
Thanks for once again sharing your brilliance Andrew Scheps!! Whenever you are sharing mixing gems, I'm all ears.
Isn't mixing on a system that you know like the back of your hand, whether it's speakers in a particular room or headphones, what's essential? By far what I listen to the most on a daily basis is a pair of custom in ears, and I often find that mixing with them keeps me in the ballpark when evaluating my mixes against references...
Yes, but you can easily fall into a trap of having a terrible room or truly bad speakers which alters your perception of what you're actually doing with sound. To your point, say you had several reference tracks that you absolutely knew the sound of across multiple systems/rooms and you sat in this piss poor room -- you could probably still get by pretty well if you knew the bad room amazingly well too. The real trap is for beginners with all of this, I think.
@@jonathanhammer6437 Absolutely. That's why, as a beginner myself, not equipped with a great room, I continue to check my mixes on multiple systems... Until I can afford a dedicated room and treat it...
@@sylvainnavarro5570 I'm about 4yrs in and I'm still not in a great room. I know these guys say in the video that they don't use corrective software, but Sonarworks has genuinely changed the game for me and was worth every penny; I mix on Yamaha HS7s and the same Sony headphones Scheps uses, and although my room isn't treated to the extent it could be, I have begun making pro level mixes from my ears adjusting to various systems/rooms and Sonarworks roughly balancing out the room I'm in.
Ik Multimedia has smart software, and if money is an issue, Waves NX is corrective headphone software exclusively (just make sure your headphones are covered with the Balanced EQ module -- not all pairs are). Again, these programs won't fix a bad room, but they've made my mixes 5 - 10% better by helping to balance what I'm dealing with -- and that's worth every penny to me.
@@jonathanhammer6437 I’m one of Streaky’s students and he swears by corrective software. He personally uses Trinov which is around $5k. I’m using Sonar Works and it’s helped immensely.
I also use the same headphones as Scheps (those old school Sony’s, right?) but I’ve been listening to them for close to 25 years now. I think if you have enough experience to know what to listen for, headphones work really well. I go between references while mixing/mastering, which also is a huge help in keeping me on track.
@@ilikemyrealname So glad to hear you're with Streaky! I admit I don't follow his videos as closely as I should but everything I've seen from him is excellent.
As I said, I don't think corrective software can FIX a bad room, but it's absolutely worth the money. I use Sonarworks and that, plus taking enough time to learn my room & system, is what's made the difference for me overall. "Getting better at EQ" is really just learning to hear...and that's also what's going on in your room! (Reverb, early reflections, delay, etc. are also part of the room, but EQ is the main factor you can deal with if you're stuck in a bad physical space).
I also have the same headphones, correct, Sony 7506's (7605? I always get it wrong). You're right on the headphones as well -- if you just learn your gear, it all works. I even reference in crappy Sony earbuds that I've been using for 12yrs because that was what "music sounds like" to me since I first got into music, so I know how the balance should be on a $40 pair of Best Buy earbuds!
Wonderful info thank you! Love the chairs & setting, the only things missing was some Cognac & Coffee!
This was a great dialog!
'All that matters is what comes out of the speakers when you hit play.' - I heard Andrew say something like this a loooong time ago, and it was the most FREEEING thing I've ever heard. There were no more excuses, and no reason to lack confidence. ALL that matters, is what comes out.
Great advice about if you hear something not right on speakers, that you go back to headphones and make sure you hear it there.
This is so liberating. I've been mixing with K240's and really enjoying the results because I've learned them. However I always felt that I was missing out for not using fancy monitors. Not anymore , thank you sir!
I been mixing with headphones for almost 10 years now!!! I do mobile recordings and I live in an apartment. Sometimes before the pandemic I would mix songs before work while sitting out. I've trained my ears to get use to doing this!!!I have HS7 monitors and if the mixes sound good on them when I do playback at decent volume, I know I've done a good job or need to make adjustments.
HS7 are the - best.
Love it! Andrew says it like it is!
I have a feeling that after this interview the 7506s are going to become the NS10s of the 2020s.
If you can afford them, Audeze LCDX are the way to go. Built like tanks and go down to the sub frequencies that many headphones lack.
nah mate... look towards akg 702k. these things are reference monitors.
Putting in a vote for HD650's. Just gave mine an overhaul after 15 years. New earpads and headband padding, and good as new. Love it that you can get parts easily.
@@ruthlesscutthroat4030 the k702s a have been my main squeeze for some time now. absolutely insane how perfect their sound stage is and how detailed they can get, especially the low end
Lacking mids and harsh ugly treble
I agree a 100% with Andrew, if your mix sounds good then your set up is appropriate whether is headphones, speakers or both. I don't have a sound treated room so I'm did not spend tones of money on great speakers because if the room sucks then the sound coming from your top end speakers will not help you to get the mix as you expect. I'm in the process of training my brain to mixing with headphones because I got no choice anyways! but I'm getting there. Thank you Andrew for your feedback.
This is pure gold!
I am not mixer but it was a delight to listen to this guy talk about his craft.
14:15 such good advice! This is how I trained my ears to listen for certain things on different speakers!
I've just picked up a pair of Shure headphones for editing and mixing. Whilst trialling a few headphones, I realised that an accurate transient response is much, much more important than a flat frequency response.
Your brain can quickly adjust to account for a bumpy frequency response, but only if those lumpy bits aren't resonances. You can't separate out bass parts if it's a boomy mess down there, or dial out sibilance if an upper spike is ringing.
I like that one. Thanks for that great vid the Masters. I only use headphone to mix so today was my conformation.
This is great. There is this unfounded stigma against using cans for mixing yet lots of guys do it as well as Mastering engineers. I've only been using headphones for about 8 months, and then will reference against my Dynaudio BM5A MKIs but am really enjoying it. The OLLO Audio S4X I bought punch way above their price point as well.
I recently started mixing with Headphones, and I really think they help me achieve better results faster. I have a question for Andrew, and that is what A/D conversion audio interface do you use with your notebook?
Thank you very much for all the info! It's a great help!
Thank you for this video. Been having this conversation for the last 20 years and so many detractors. Now we can just say hey Andrew says it’s cool, leave me alone.
Thanks Andrew & Fab 💯
PLEASE . DO . THIS . MORE
thank you so much!
Scheps dropping the mad tips.
U have to hear the problem in the environment!
I get the best results from little speakers then headphones. Best translation.
I wish this went on for hours!
Just wondering what interface Andrew uses ? Any One?..
Same
What great advice! ❤
This is quite the interesting conversation to tune into.
A friend of mine just recently recommended Audeze LCD-X's. The suggestion immediately made me think of when another friend asked me to listen to a mix of his years ago, to which I responded after listening "did you mix this wearing headphones?" and explained to him that it sounded rather one dimensional after he asked why. Challenge of mixing philosophy accepted :)
Headphones along with re-amping is what I feel one of the best ways to mix and master theses days 🎼🎼🎼
Great stuff from two of the best in the industry, I love watching their videos and hearing them speak, they both have a way of cutting through all the BS and just give it to you straight. Plus I've already gained a wealth of knowledge from them both, but would like to continue picking their brains in person if and when I ever get the chance.
This is similar to the discussion about nearfield monitors when they first appeared in the 80's. Personally, I could never get a mix to sound good on NS10's so I found a set of JBL's, learned them and made great mixes. It takes time, practice and ear training. Find what works for you.
I'd watch loads of videos in this style
I'm not at any professional level of any sort, just do it as a hobby in-the-box, but never really understood why speakers were so important to mix/master with, so this interview is great to hear it being debunked somewhat. I think so long as you stay consistent on the same headphones for years and listen to everything on them, the brain is so powerful it will largely compensate. The only experience missing on headphones is the physical air pressure and the localised stereo. Although Scheps doesn't appear to use any, I originally added Meier Crossfeed to the master out as I just think it reduces listening fatigue as much as localises the stereo image similar to speakers. I now choose Airwindows Monitoring which is a little jewel of a monitoring toolbox for headphone mixing and comes with an equally natural and transparent crossfeed solution as Meier.
I just picked up the Sony mdr 7506’s and I am shocked at how good they sound for the money. He makes total sense with everything he says
BeyerDynamic DT 770 PRO do a nice job in my little x32/ableton 11 zone, I love how much you willingly share your knowledge and experiences with the world. Peace.
seriously Andrew is so good. I'd really love to study his "no speakers" mixes in a stellar Hifi room with full range speakers: if he can deliver great image and placement in the field with two cans stuck on his head, well then he's a true master.
This dude absolutely has the right idea. Straight up G.
I mix primarily on headphones. The key as Andrew mentioned is to know and trust the headphones sound. Listen to lots of music as references on them to understand how they handle the frequency range, you'll know what's possible if your mix is right. I use speakers to test the bottom end "feel" and overall presence/punch of the mix, you can't always get that from headphones. I'll also play the mix in my car, my phone, some other Bluetooth speakers for a few days before signing off on it. This gives me a good cross section of perspectives on how it performs on different devices. Considering that many people listen to music on headphones now days, it's completely possible to deliver great mixes using them primarily. Know your cans, use speakers for a second opinion but do the workhorse share on them for sure. Big tip, for general mixing tasks work at a lower volume level to save ear fatigue.
I got a pair of Beyerdynamic 1770 pros when they were on sale last summer. I really like them. I can’t mix in the cheaper headphones because the bass is so exaggerated that it hurts my ears.. my ears are very sensitive.
They don’t produce much bass though, & I have to go back & sort the low end, so I get what he’s saying. Are there any headphones that produce low end better than the beyerdynamics, without exaggerating it too much?
Thanks for this! So Andrew is using MDR-7506s, sorry I didn’t quite catch which model Focal headphones and which Bose speaker Fab is using? Thank you, really inspiring talk!
Hey there these days Fab uses Mezze Elite headphones, check them out
Thank you legends.