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I've been conducting a lot of consultations with men recently who are the horns of a dilemma, namely: they feel the need to choose between two women for a relationship. In every instance, they fall prey to the cognitive trap of comparing the women in question against each other. In this episode, I explain why this tends to leads to sub-optimal outcomes and how to approach this "good" problem more effectively. Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Subscribe to my newsletter: oriontarabanpsyd.com Social Media Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Orion's Theme: ruclips.net/video/WrXBzQ2HDEQ/видео.html Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Become a Stellar affiliate and earn a 10% commission for every membership purchased by a new student you conduct into the program: stellargre.tapfiliate.com. GRE Bites: www.youtube.com/@grebites4993 Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: ruclips.net/channel/UCSduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXwjoin Sound mixing/editing by: valntinomusic.com Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world. #psychology #dating #relationship
@@psychacks I like how your psychology discussions tend to become economic discussions. Coming out of my economics lectures I would laugh because of the concept of scarcity and other ways of valuing options. I always thought how it could be literally applied to the dating world- and when I watch you it is all I can think of.
One of the most profound mental shifts I have had was when I began asking myself “do I want to do this or am I doing this to avoid a person in my life being upset”
@@TheLinkedList having kids makes it definitely more complicated (I know from proper experience), nonetheless you should try to live your life not being afraid from anybody. In the end you are also setting an example for your own kids...
This is so true. Having been there, I did not realize that ultimately you (as a man) needs to be what Richard Cooper calls 'Your Own Mental Point of Origin'. Thinking about the world through your own eyes, and not serving a woman as your baseline.
I’m not sure conjuring up Richard Cooper as a totem of success is exactly a bright idea. He has anger against women for a reason. He makes a living grifting in the manosphere for a reason. Divorced and therefore butthurt, with a child. There needs to be a non-loser 40 something real old single man with no kids putting forth the information that RC does and I can begin to take it in as credible. Otherwise, he’s just angry. Andrew Tate is also angry for his own reasons. Neither are well adjusted men with stable upbringings and backgrounds
Of course I can't read all comments and watch all of the videos..but very happy to see such sane and truthful advice. The amount of content spewing from the angry and borderline violent men in the manosphere is scary. Where did anyone get the idea they are entitled to get what they want..as much sex as they want and when...to avoid pain and rhe ending of relationships..? and all the other painful aspects of living as a human
@@janetomesIm baffled too. All these red p*** coaches could be one and the same person. Angry and aggressive. If their lives are so ideal after their self improvement, why be so angry? They talk about masculinity and how a man needs to be able to protect a woman but from who? They are the ones that look scary.
Whatever choice you are making, be sure its what you need and not just what you want. however, Perfect marriages or relationships aren't real; they're all different. What works for one person might not work for someone else. But I've come to understand that there's always a solution to problems. Five years ago, my wife and I were close to divorcing because of issues in our marriage, but we found a way to fix them. It was tough, but we survived.
I really understand why what you're saying matters, and I truly want to find happiness as well. I have someone special in my life, and even though we're not together right now, I can't imagine living without her; my love for her is deep. I really hope she comes back, and I'm fully committed to making it happen. We've tried different ways, like therapy, to make things right.
Parting ways with someone you deeply care about is never easy, but in my particular circumstance, I was aided by a spiritual mentor who averted the collapse of my marriage. Her name is Suzanne Ann Walters.
Your guidance is valued. I'll immediately seek her out online. Appreciate it. I'm hopeful that implementing this method will also bring me success; I miss her dearly.
This and I am learning about onenitis (limerence) too. I have been here multiple times just to end up in a different road completely. In your head "if I lose either of them or the one, I really bond with my life is over".... not quite. Move to another city...BAM another one shows up. Now it is not even an age issue. People traverse the age gaps more frequently nowadays. For both men and women, if they do not let themselves go.... the world is your oasis now.
Good one as always, sir 👍Back in the day the advice was as follows: "chose the 2nd one as you wouldn't look outside if you were satisfied with the 1st one".
@@_WoIfY you wouldn't be interested in a second woman in the first place if the first one was good enough. So, the second one is automatically better.
@@d_all_in that's not how life works. Option A is the wife. She is great in all aspects of being a wife and partner you can build a life with. Option B is the mistress she is everything you physically want in a partner, fun to be around, always keeps you young, and is probably gorgeous. Now if any of you men actually had options yall would know that you only get one or the other with women. The model or the wife. The wife asks if she looks fat in the dress and you tell her "no baby you look fine" which would be a lie. The model is a beautiful eye candy who has mentioned, though not on purpose or to make a point, how unhappy she would be cooking every day and taking care of children. She loves living her life. Why can't you choose? Because if you choose A you die a slow death. You become one of those men who comes to work or to the bar or to your homeboy to explain how little segz you get or how much money she spends, or how much common sense she lacks or whatever trivial argument you just had. Side note: we know how many unhappy husband's there are so let's not play coy. If you choose B you will have all the fun you want, your heart will skip a beat when yall hangout BUT when it's time to get serious and build/save/improve yalls quality of life she doesn't have the discipline to help you through that. There is a reason one became your wife and the other your mistress. As far as having the DREAM of finding all of that in one person you have the same chance of becoming a millionaire. Those are the only men who have a real chance of finding that woman BUT they have the problem of having to dig through so many ppl only out for their money. Sorry for the extremely long text but the fact is you can't choose. Note: This was copy and pasted
@godislove4540 that's not how life works. Option A is the wife. She is great in all aspects of being a wife and partner you can build a life with. Option B is the mistress she is everything you physically want in a partner, fun to be around, always keeps you young, and is probably gorgeous. Now if any of you men actually had options yall would know that you only get one or the other with women. The model or the wife. The wife asks if she looks fat in the dress and you tell her "no baby you look fine" which would be a lie. The model is a beautiful eye candy who has mentioned, though not on purpose or to make a point, how unhappy she would be cooking every day and taking care of children. She loves living her life. Why can't you choose? Because if you choose A you die a slow death. You become one of those men who comes to work or to the bar or to your homeboy to explain how little segz you get or how much money she spends, or how much common sense she lacks or whatever trivial argument you just had. Side note: we know how many unhappy husband's there are so let's not play coy. If you choose B you will have all the fun you want, your heart will skip a beat when yall hangout BUT when it's time to get serious and build/save/improve yalls quality of life she doesn't have the discipline to help you through that. There is a reason one became your wife and the other your mistress. As far as having the DREAM of finding all of that in one person you have the same chance of becoming a millionaire. Those are the only men who have a real chance of finding that woman BUT they have the problem of having to dig through so many ppl only out for their money. Sorry for the extremely long text but the fact is you can't choose.
Plenty of roads, but not plenty of time, resources, and most importantly life energy to engage with multiple people. It starts out great but down the roads you end up feeling like a slave to your choices.
100%. But I feel like I stopped engaging in this self destructive before I was really ready 😂 I am a married man who still has urges to play, flirt, seduce other women, not because I would like them, but I’m so used to the hunting ritual. I knew I had to stop rotating women, so I took that action, but there is definitely a cool-off period needed. Instead, the right woman found me right at that point and two years later, after meeting her 4 years after I started really playboying hardcore, I stopped the behavior completely. I’m leaning on conventional wisdom
Hate to break it to you but you’ll always be a slave to your choices. And you’ll always deal with multiple people in many contexts unless you opt to be a hermit
@@segueoyuri true, but some choices are more depleting than others. Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I think that was the implication. Been down that road myself, lol..
@@i_accept_all_cookies sure they are. Some choices even drain you for nothing. My point is, there's no "slavery" to choices. You are the one ultimately making them. There's no escaping them. It's your responsibility. Are you a slave of yourself? Makes no sense.
If it's not apparently YES, than it is apparenty NO. If you have to choose between the two, it means that both of them are not suitable. It can be applied anywhere, dating is no exception.
I've been thinking about what if dude cheats because she neglected and the bullshit with us dudes always having to break through the facade of the bad guy, when if they just did the same thing off a whim and would avoid accountability either way.
Just my 2 cents to that: I'd rather say "If you cannot easily choose between the two..." instead of "have to" - because sometimes you will have to choose and cannot have it all. There's opportunity costs attached to a whole lot of aspects in life. But if you have your own compass in mind and option A is clearly better than option B, the choice will not be hard. But if both choices look equal, they're either equally good so no matter what you choose will work out, or they're actually both bad for you, so choosing none and looking for option C will be the prudent decision.
@elpakotheglorious that's not how life works. Option A is the wife. She is great in all aspects of being a wife and partner you can build a life with. Option B is the mistress she is everything you physically want in a partner, fun to be around, always keeps you young, and is probably gorgeous. Now if any of you men actually had options yall would know that you only get one or the other with women. The model or the wife. The wife asks if she looks fat in the dress and you tell her "no baby you look fine" which would be a lie. The model is a beautiful eye candy who has mentioned, though not on purpose or to make a point, how unhappy she would be cooking every day and taking care of children. She loves living her life. Why can't you choose? Because if you choose A you die a slow death. You become one of those men who comes to work or to the bar or to your homeboy to explain how little segz you get or how much money she spends, or how much common sense she lacks or whatever trivial argument you just had. Side note: we know how many unhappy husband's there are so let's not play coy. If you choose B you will have all the fun you want, your heart will skip a beat when yall hangout BUT when it's time to get serious and build/save/improve yalls quality of life she doesn't have the discipline to help you through that. There is a reason one became your wife and the other your mistress. As far as having the DREAM of finding all of that in one person you have the same chance of becoming a millionaire. Those are the only men who have a real chance of finding that woman BUT they have the problem of having to dig through so many ppl only out for their money. Sorry for the extremely long text but the fact is you can't choose.
Suitable for what? That is the question here. I've seen in myself and my friends that you only get to the "A or B" situation when the situation has run its course and it is time for a new chapter. So they were suitable yesterday but today you are aware that its not for you tomorrow.
@@joshualewis4991 I don't know why you think everyone deserves to date a model, who is also wife material. Heck a lot of men don't deserve any woman. Of course that the "candy" is reserved for the best of men.
I feel bad for Chad and Tyrone sometimes. It must be hard being inundated with numerous options, each option competing against the other, trying to give him the maximum amount of unforgettable pleasure, and whatever he decides, all the options that he throws away will always yearn to be with him (alpha widow).
What makes it hard personally for me is that I genuinely love many of these women bro, I've just never been a relationship-oriented dude. Women show lots of love, I show it back, but then they want EVERYTHING, and I can't give them that cause im a solitary person. From the outside it looks like we're "playing" these women, when in reality I show women lots and lots of love and experiences. Sometimes things just don't work out, and other times they understand me and still love me anyway, never abandoning me. Those are the women In my life I love the most, and always will. I feel the happiest and most free when im with them.❤️
@@Khan-rz8qiExactly. I feel the same way. Women want EVERYTHING once you show them some genuine love, but I’m a sigma male so I don’t have that to offer.
It is very difficult position. Only because they want you to choose. You’re stuck in paralysis analysis. Whole time you’re thinking why should I have to choose! Especially if you’re capable of managing them. You can definitely love more than 1. Some men take the 1 they can get.
Look at military planning, options are not initially considered against each other rather against independent measures. Comparison happens only after. And often parts of different options get combined.
You can’t combine people. But that’s what men actually want to do because there are no perfect options and they all lack something. Therefore, no one is really happy for very long when you’re a person that just wants what you want when you want it, since women will not come and go at your beck and call like dolls on shelves waiting for when you want to play and going in the closet when you don’t.
Dr. Taraban, while I understand and appreciate the "either or" stance you describe here which certainly theoretically and in some cases also very much so practically could work out well in real life, the drama triangle situation that ensues from trying to emotionally attach and keep a good bond with two women at the same time may actually not be all too healthy for neither of the three people involved, especially for a long-term commitment. From what I've learned on this topic from German couples therapist and board-certified, seasoned psychologist Christian Hemschemeier, love triangles more often than not become an utterly toxic situation. They seem to be quite prone to lead to unnecessary drama (persecutor, victim, rescuer situations). I'd be very reluctant to get into one. Since triangulation seems to be part of healthy childhood development with mom, dad and the child forming the three corner points of the triangle, it seems to me personally at this point in time that in adult years, triangulations might be a belated attempt of our human psyche to finish the process of healthy separation individuation from mom and/or dad. So, triangulations in adult love affairs aren't wrong but meant to lead to inner psychological development. That's my personal hypothesis at this point in time. I may be wrong, but maybe I'm not. Juggling both women over a longer course of time (or both men in case of a woman being involved with two men) might end up being as toxic as Mr. Hemschemeier reports from countless real-life cases he encountered and might be so utterly detrimental in most cases, because it's actually not meant to stay at that stage for longer periods. It's possibly serving a purpose, an attempt of the human psyche to grow into one's own, to mature so to speak. To mature into a healthy sustainable and secure way of attachment, which will be very difficult to achieve within the triangle. I for one can clearly state, I would rather deeply connect and healthily bond with one single man during a mutually as-securely-as-possibly-attached relationship than splitting my attachment between two men. It would feel to me as if I wouldn't be able do any of both men true justice as energy and attention are a limited resource in this realm. Abundance, yes, a great experience to make and I agree, everyone should make it, but even abundance has its limitations, especially when we're not just on the receiving end but also at the same time (hopefully so) likewisely on the giving end. P.S.: In case you should be interested, Christian Hemschemeier only recently has finally published his first book, Der Liebescode (literally: The Love Code) in English language available on Amazon. It's called Decoding Love: The future of our relationships. I can highly recommend it.
@AnkyPank...an insightful and smart post. The husband, wife and mistress certainly is a triangle and I agree is connected to that mother,father, child triangle from unresolved family of origin issues. Same with husband,wife and wife with lover on side. It's really the process known as "splitting"...if people are aware of what they're doing and why and no secrets (more of an arrangement) then it can be a "stable triangle." It still stands that for that to occur it needs to be discussed and okay with the parties involved. It is not either/or...that's pretty much the wrong question whether male or female is trying to sort this out. And it is common too...hence why important to do it well and fairly. Example that comes to mind...say wife says I don't want to have sex anymore but wants to stay married? Not difficult for husband to say we'll I do want sex in my life so let's figure this out. She might be okay with him having someone on the side and vice versa...say if husband not interested in sex and wife is then he might say it's not a deal breaker for him for her to have lover on sides. As you're aware there are many reasons for staying married. My point also: I think this type of arrangement takes very mature people, good communication. I'm not talking about infidelity...I'm talking about arrangement within a couple. It's still splitting though and an be emotionally tricky but stable triangles can exist. With 2 girlfriends a guy has or 2 boyfriends a woman has...a bit different. Takes figuring out what you want and being fair and honest all to each other...
This couldn't have dropped at a better time for me. Paraphrasing what doc said in another video-- "Forget what she wants. Forget what EVERYONE and ANYONE else wants. Pretend it doesn't exist--- no, pretend it has NEVER existed in your mind. Now ask yourself: What do YOU want? (That's an option?) YES, my brother, THAT IS AN OPTION!!"
Before choosing between option A and option B, perhaps it would be best to determine why you have this option in the first place. Good choices come from examining all the options and why you have the choice. Why did you get married? How did you end up with a mistress? Making a decision is easier when you have few choices, but abundance choices bring comfort at a price - the possibility of returning to where you were, or worse, ending up with less than what you had. The higher you are, the more it hurts when you fall.
Another jewel from you, Orion. Thank you for clarifying this. Living in a woman's frame and only ever catering to her wants and needs instead of finding a clear vision on what you want and how you can achieve this with the people in your life, that has been a big part of my life since childhood. I was living in a marriage which grew stale because I only followed a road which had been socialized into me as the only valid road in life. Only now, that divorce is close, and that I found a new partner who fits better into my frame (which I needed to develop after separating from my wife), things finally seem to go somewhere for me. And yeah, the fake dilemma of two mutually exclusive choices (woman A or woman B) is something that I think many men have experienced at some point. That scarcity mentality was also socialized into me in childhood. Only since I realized it, dropped it and developed a "so what/f**k off" attitude towards people (meaning especially, but not exclusively women) trying to urge me to do stuff I do not want to to just because it suits their plans, my life satisfaction skyrocketed. Keep going Orion, people need insight like this. You're helping a lot of folks out there.
I understand the underlying principle regarding knowing what you want and not playing into womens frames, but this is immediately problematic when dealing with wives and committed girlfriends. If youre in a relationship that is supposed to be exclusive, youve already lost the plot since youve inherently broken your promise of commitment and exclusivity. You can introduce some of the "know what you want and keep your frame" mentality to help explain how you got to a point where youve broken a commitment, but youve clearly lost the moral high ground. You could potentially use this mentality as a means of negotiation, but youre certainly not in a strong position... if you werent getting what you wanted, you should have addressed it before picking up a mistress or second girlfriend. However, if we're talking about the initial dating stages, casual dating, or a relationship where there has been clear tocxicitiy, moderate insecurity, or a break up/make up pattern, this mentality instantly becomes a lot stronger. In these contexts, it is much harder for a partner to claim some type of clear moral high ground and you can simply say "hey, ive got to weigh my options before i make a full commitment", because you either barely know the person or you have reason to believe this person might not want your commitment should you even attempt to offer it.
@stevensolof7058 glad someone said this. The idea of reducing the choice of 'early dating of 2 potential partners' and 'choosing between my committed relationship and a side peice' as being essentially the same is really bad advice. And alot of douchey guys are going to use this video to hurt alot of women. The first question should be "does one of these women have 'committed relationship' status with you?" If so, the mental process is significantly different if you want to be a moral and honest person who lives with an integrated value system.
@@DanCummins Much as we would like, organic real life doesn't align with human-made linear rigid morality. People end up in poorly chosen committed relationships all the time, only for the marital satisfaction to go down the drain in time, without the possibility of resolution, but also without reasonable ways out either. This can leads many people to extra-marital relationships. When people go with fundamental needs unmet, something's gotta give and moralizing can never prevent such cases.
@@roses6564Moral wannabes are just ppl who think they're better because they have a strength. Ugly, shy, awkward ppl couldn't get multiple partners if they tried so it's easy for them to claim some moral high ground. Statistics show that almost everyone fails when faced with actual temptation so I choose not to listen to the less than ppl
If you choose both you may lose both when one or the other or both get tired of it. Women also have options and the option to leave. He may end up with no one.
You could but you most likely won’t. Women are aroused by a man with options and typically treat you better when you treat them like options. It sounds harsh and makes people uncomfortable but most of the women are in love with the chase and with “falling in love” far more often than they love the man they say they do, and then when they are given monogamy and the chase and falling are over, they will leave if they didn’t truly love the man. And I think we can all agree if you calculate all the relationships ever to exist. A small percentage was true love. Maybe 5%? So most likely you’re going to just increase the likelihood both women stick around.
Men do know what they want. The reason I have a closet full of clothes is because I have a variety of needs. I have clothes for every option. Women are just like clothes for men. No one shirt is ever going to suit. You need the “t-shirt”, “the crop top”, “the button-up”, the “blouse”. Different types of women offer different values and uses. Even after a man marries, there’s still attractive women with points of use and benefit. The question is, when do you realize you can’t treat people like occasion wear?
But you can if you have options.. you can say it’s bad but men with options can and do treat people like occasion wear.. people who have no problem with it
So, then you think attractive people who have options have a right to treat others as just shirts in a closet, there for their use when they feel like it? You think that’s ok for people to do that and you wouldn’t mind being treated that way?
@@kaitemarie5404 I don’t think it’s okay, personally. But it’s a part of the reality in which we live, and there’s a lot of women comfortable in that position. I think the social contract between the sexes has been broken and that opens the door to things like this. I don’t think it’s okay for me, but if other people are okay with it, I cannot tell them what to be okay with and what not to be okay with. You assume the women in these situations don’t like it, and I think that assumption is unfounded. I’m not saying they all like it either, but there’s definitely some that do and some that don’t, just like everything else..
@@kaitemarie5404 They don't have to treat them as JUST shirts in a closet; they can FUNCTIONALLY treat them like shirts while caring about/for each one quite thoroughly. Many monogamous people treat their partner little better than an outfit; it's just that they've decided to only have one outfit for all situations.
I love the 'both/and - Northwest” approach. I’m going to do the same with my boyfriend and lover as I really benefit from being with both of them in different ways. Thank you so much for the mindset change! Always nice to watch your videos! Congrats for your book!
The oldet I get, the more attention I get. But it doesn't bring the decent women out of the woodwork, it just exposes me to even more women who expect to control, use, and emasculate me, and expect me to pedestalise and simp, and to have no boundaries. Looking at the vast majority of couples out there, the man has long since been crushed, and nearly every woman I've met expects to be able to steamroller me in the same way. From the way they react, it's clear I'm the first man they've met who has a backbone and isn't afraid of saying no. The moment they discover that or that I don't simp or pedestalise and they can't CUE me, they're off. "Oh but there's plenty of decent women out there." No there aren't. I only know of three married/LTRen under the age of 70 or so who haven't been crushed by their woman. The last time I met such a woman was over 24 years ago. Here in the UK, simping and pedestalising is a woman's bare minimum to date. It also helps if the guy is feminine, gives her female emotions, has a weak jaw, struggles to grow a patchy beard, has as little meat on him as a butchers pencil, and looks like he'd get blown over in a strong breeze. Such 'men' are very rarely without a girlfriend or wife. Much younger women are VERY friendly towards me though. If I was rich enough, I'd have them as sugar babies as it's clear that's what they want.
I LOVE how you approached that. Most people are so brainwashed that choosing A+B(+C) Or just rotating A-B-H-F-C-Y doesn't even enter their mind. If you are a man that has accomplished this position of being able to choose. Why not go one Step further and don't choose at all. Limiting beliefs, that's why (if you ACTUALLY were a monogamy lover, you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place)
I learned many years ago to always choose the option that best benefits me. Even if it means not having a woman, at that moment. As mentioned it in the video, there are plenty of roads. Meaning, there will always be other women out there where one will meet your needs.
Women sometimes have to choose between two men also. This is very helpful; I need to ask myself what do I want, and will I get there with this person...not who is more fun, better looking, has more in common with me, etc. Thank you!
@6:38 "It can be hard to base a decision on if it would help them get to where they want to go, because many have not thought about what they themselves would want for quite some time. This is because they have become so in the habit of serving the other and so comfortable existing in the others frame...." What I find to be a pivotal codependency explanation Orion thank you.
Dear Naaz, the journey which started 3-4 years ago with tarot is now making sense. And your contributions are invaluable 🙏 and I am grateful for this blessing.
why is it that so many other channels dont make sense and this dude is slowly but sure help me realize im not thinking/serving what i want. i was a slave to others involuntarily. dude thank you, you are helping me get back my fucking life.
@@nelsonzambrano5788that when I’m struggling to choose between two men, I need to choose the man that’s going to lead me to my destination as opposed to comparing them to each other. And in the end that may be neither of them. I was just recently divorced so I’m back in the dating game.
@@nelsonzambrano5788 that if I have to choose between two men, I should never compare them to one another. I just need to choose the man/path that’s going to lead me best to my destination. And that may or may not mean ditching them both. I’m recently divorced so I’m back in the dating game. It’s been quite a journey.
There is a “one” for me, I’m married to her. But it’s a hardcore adorer (her) and adoree (me) situation where she wants to make it like we both co-adore each other. That’s her mission with me. But damn, she is the most wifey wife to ever walk the earth. AND she has all her own assets, house, cars, etc.
I had to choose between my wife and my mistress. No I'm not proud of it (long story). I was on the fence for so long. I couldn't decide. It was until I came up with plan "C". Plan "c" was I am going to stay with my infant daughter. I choose my daughter over wife and mistress. Essentially staying with my wife...and daughter.
I always had difficulties not only relating to but even just understating that concept of « scarcity vs. abundance mindset »… Until today Thank you doctor
When I was young, there were three times I could have had a moment with a promiscuous girl, but declined because it would have, I thought, ruined my chances with someone I wanted as a girlfriend, someone we both knew. I never ended up getting any as a girlfriend. Today, one of my smaller regrets is that I didn't take advantage of those offers. I learned a bird in the hand is worth more than an imaginary flock in a bush. Que sera sera I guess.
@@lahbatataaayt Its from a song written in the 60s. Whatever Will Be, Will Be The song popularized the title expression "que sera, sera" as an English-language phrase indicating "cheerful fatalism", though its use in English dates back to at least the 16th century. Contrary to popular perception, the phrase is not Spanish in origin (in Spanish it would be "lo que será, será"), and is ungrammatical in that language.[3] It was evidently formed by a word-for-word mistranslation of English "What will be will be".[
My opinion it is the rare guy that actually has a choice between two (or more) women. Most men either only have the opportunity to date different women serially or struggle getting dates at all
I limited my woman to 3 at a time & saw each one when l felt like it. I didn't gaf & they loved it. I didn't even know why they liked it but now l do understand it now. I was 6'3" blonde green eyes & good shape back then. I'm 63 now & just have my 1 now she's all I really needed.
Wow! This is the exact talk I was looking for🙏😭❤️ No one on RUclips has covered this ground as far as I've found (and I binge tf out of RUclips almost daily following wannabe gurus and experts 😅) ... In short there are a lot of men living for others because that's in the modern male program. They're utilized and instumentalized (fn tools) for the women who use them. We like to be useful because thinking and strategizing invites trouble and we are better off being in the hands of a thoughtful and careful owner (a woman who will maintain us). BTW I subscribed. Thank you so much!!!
*Amazing video, you work for 4Oyrs to have $1M in your retirement, meanwhile some people are putting just $10K into trading from just few months ago and now they are multimillionaires*
Hello, I am very interested. As you know, there are tons of investments out there and without solid knowledge, I can't decide what is best. Can you explain further how you invest and earn?
Same, I operate a wide- range of Investments with help from My Financial Adviser. My advice is to get a professional who will help you, plan and enhance your management skills. For the record, working with Barry Silbert, has been an amazing experience.
I'm favoured, $90K every week! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless America,, all thanks to Mr Barry Silbert
Everyone thinks they got options until hard times hit.. then u realise u actually dont have options, or maybe u did have someone who did actually love u even at your worst but you thought cause u have options at your best that means you actually got options 😂nope
"Sometimes its a 'both/and' solution and sometimes its a 'neither/nor' solution." My man. This reframe dropped a cartoon grand piano on me. Thank you so much.
First video I’ve ever had a problem with what Orion is saying. Having a mistress is not cool or manly, it’s childish and irresponsible. He allowed his pessimism of marriage, or any committed relationship from what it sounded like here, to overshadow his common decency.
It's more that Dr. Orion demonstrates a pretty strong Machiavellian streak in his talks. Morality is an entirely different framework from "doing what works to win the game," and this has been his primary angle from the get-go.
When I was in college I derived self worth as a man from how many women I could get with. Having been in this exact same scenario. Looking back, more often than not, this is due to a boy being insecure and needing validation while getting caught up in his emotions. A genuine man doesn’t need eye candy for validation. He stays in his own respective frame. If you find yourself in this false dichotomy 90% of the time, you aren’t in the right headspace for either women
You can lie all you want for likes from women but the FACT is men who can, do, because of testosterone. Minus the exception to the rule stories most men with high testosterone have multiple partners. That's statistically proven so keep your feelings and pandering out of real conversations please
Finally I can see a balance happening for men in this dance we have with women, we are getting more aware on how they really are and how we are regarding women.
Audio book was amazing. Loved the cadence and expression. The written chapters were well marked out. . And such a treat of 10 glorious hours! Home Run. You should be proud Dr.
Bro choosing between 2 women you actually want and have your in life is hard af. You don't want to make the wrong choice with who you move forward with.
"You don't want to make the wrong choice with who you move forward with." Soulbreaker, so you're dragging them both behind your horse? You're using them both.
Thank you for this episode, I really needed this. This is also true for women choosing between 2 guys. Anyone who you feel like makes you feel like an option (It can be noticed), don't choose that person. That person is looking for something else but that is not you, or at least not you entirely, you want someone who wants you 99.99%. And definitely choose yourself and the direction of your life.
I'm 47 and have been single for 7 months. All kinds of relationships previously. I had to relearn everything. Your teaching has been instrumental to me. ❤ you
I had trouble choosing between the 3 most important woman in my life.. and it was suggested that I marry all three of them...this was their suggestion... and we have been happy ever since. ... this road is not for everybody though... but it has worked well for us and our arrangement... all three have determined that I am valuable enough for them to share... Im am the road that they have all decided to follow....
@@nivh it is definitely not easier in terms of keeping it a secret. Probably easier in the instigating it. Sorry that happened to you man. Perhaps a sign that the woman is trying to match the feeling she gets from validation online, actually in the flesh. Easier to cheat ten years ago though.
We forever cheating because "YOU" ain't worth commiting to like most women . Benefits no man to only keep one modern woman with all her entitlements 😂😂😂😂
I would say nothing and nobody cheats faster than a cluster b . Borderline girl. They have dudes lined up no matter what the situation with present is. Its bizzare, heartbreaking for all...even for them as well..maybe...
@@TurbulantSynider those are always the physically hottest girls aren’t they? Power corrupts. I have based my life on not giving even an ounce more praise and esteem to very beautiful women more so than any average person…because of the destruction they wreak. And yes it is worse when they are borderline.
Within the context of this video - here's a different circumstance and set of decisions. One of the two women doesn't know she's "another woman" and the man is actually in the predicament of trying to choose. Why would a man create that circumstance? How to go about figuring out a solution?
Great advice! I personally don’t need it for relationship but it’s a good general practice. I get lost in comparison between options instead of weighing the choices against my overall goal. This comparison not only reduces my happiness but diminishes the quality of my decisions.
In my experience if you are satisfying every women that you are dealing with and even if they know about one another they won't leave you. Those women will be upset but they won't leave. So men that women see value in those men can have their cake and eat too.
@@susandavis903 the man is in control of what he wants to do and if he doesn't want to open the communication these women will still stay. We see it time and time again.
Older man with ED dates older woman A but later attracts younger woman B, who becomes his lover in spite of ED. He then tells woman B about woman A but refuses to break up with woman A. Much later, woman B finds out that woman A wears Poise pads and man says there is no sex, but have sleep-overs and cuddle and kiss. However, woman A thinks the man and her are a couple. Any thoughts?
Thanks dudeeee! For all of this, thanks. Really, thank you! I'm clear of what i have to do, i forgot about the scarcity mentality, it's makes all the sense in the world
Yes, the man must choose which women fits in where he wants to go, it might be a third option ...or leave the position vacant until a good prospect comes along.
*If a man is cheating on his wife, clearly he is in fact thinking very much about what he wants, even at the expense of others. And yet, you still say for him to be even more selfish. Morality and civilization are doomed. The leaders of online masculinity embrace polyamory and adultery like its no big deal.*
My man made a choice earlier in his life between me and some other woman that was originally easier because she lived closer and he thought he loved her. She was also much older and had a child by someone else. Fast forward…he no longer has this woman in his life because he had to go through a school of hard knocks. We are together now for good.
@@gracefullyrachel6573 I never had any trust issues with him. He formally broke up with me. He was too young to understand that single older woman with child is never a good option for any man. We love each other and have always been meant for each other. My reconciliation process was easy. I am not jaded and not neurotic.
@@Kim-vw4nx Is funny...the man saying he feels "controlled" in that situation when really he is running the show already. Guess Orion is speaking of men who aren't self-aware. Women can most certainly do same...be married and have lover on side. Will often feel they don't have control when they are also running show same as men in situation. The problem I have with situation is secrets. If couple has an arrangement that's totally different
@@csmith9699 yes it is different. but the society, especially USA society which has its roots in puritanism, can't look at that any differently than "it's cheating" (except that it's not - rationally proven). People are stupid, that's it, u gotta make amends with that.
Everybody has a breaking point. It's entirely possible that the man never put himself first UNTIL he got a mistress. A person can act "selflessly" and never put themselves first for a very, very long time until they eventually reach the point where they've had enough or the temptation becomes too strong. I'm not saying I agree with the decision to have a mistress, but there's no contradiction in what Orion said. A person can consistently be one way for a long time, until they aren't.
@@kylemacdougall8355 So glad you said a person...including men and women...can go both ways. Still imo, best to be self-aware enough to know what's going on and what you're doing before your breaking point. Everyone in any relationship regardless of what it is needs to know upfront what their dealbreakers are and communicate them...whether husband to wife, wife to husband, worker to boss, boss to worker, friend to friend. Just a common sense thing for anyone
For the W1/W2 case, the separate evaluation of each woman (1/0) is only possible in theory. In practice, the comparison is inescapable. Likewise, giving up two birds in the hand for an endless number in the bush borders on pathology, unless both women suck, in which case there's no choice to make. For the W/M case, keeping both is an option only if both women agree with polygamy. It doesn't matter if that's what the man wants. If only the mistress agrees, we have the classic "affair" which turns toxic because of the secrecy required to sidestep society's moralistic hysteria when the Situationship surfaces. If the mistress doesn't agree either ("leave her or I am gone"), then the choice is made for him and he is back to wife. The vast majority of men in such situations almost always err on the side of wife because it is the default, headache-free position to take, no grief from society. Mom-Society sets the default: wife > mistress, even when wife = Medusa and mistress = Cinderella. Like an goody-to-shoes child, the man obeys. Also Orion: "women are loyal to their feelings, men are loyal to their duties, else society calls them cowards and traitors for abandoning family." Agency, choice, free will are a lot more limited than people realize.
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I've been conducting a lot of consultations with men recently who are the horns of a dilemma, namely: they feel the need to choose between two women for a relationship. In every instance, they fall prey to the cognitive trap of comparing the women in question against each other. In this episode, I explain why this tends to leads to sub-optimal outcomes and how to approach this "good" problem more effectively.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #dating #relationship
@@psychacks I like how your psychology discussions tend to become economic discussions. Coming out of my economics lectures I would laugh because of the concept of scarcity and other ways of valuing options. I always thought how it could be literally applied to the dating world- and when I watch you it is all I can think of.
you dog
as someone with a lack of empthy i approve
You make an argumentum cornutum, ha, ha : )
@@psychacks Thank you for always being straight to the point in practical in tackling this crisis head-on.
On May 17th, you said "Every woman is two women." So choosing between 4?
One of the most profound mental shifts I have had was when I began asking myself “do I want to do this or am I doing this to avoid a person in my life being upset”
Excellent mental shift, thank you for sharing 🙏
Try asking that question if kids are in the mix
@@TheLinkedListyou care about a baby crying?
@TheLinkedList does that EVER matter when 70-95% of "them" file for divorce?
@@TheLinkedList having kids makes it definitely more complicated (I know from proper experience), nonetheless you should try to live your life not being afraid from anybody. In the end you are also setting an example for your own kids...
I love the underlying message here: choose the direction of your life so you don’t have to submit to others choosing the direction for you.
NO! I'buh, am'buh, a'buh, product'buh of'buh, society, so'buh, I'buh will'buhh give'buh all'buh my'buh posessions'buh to'buh the'bauh buh women buh.............................
@@JoeSmith-jd5zg I don't know what this means
Live life don't let life happen to you
Negotiation 101 🫶🏻
This is so true. Having been there, I did not realize that ultimately you (as a man) needs to be what Richard Cooper calls 'Your Own Mental Point of Origin'. Thinking about the world through your own eyes, and not serving a woman as your baseline.
I’m not sure conjuring up Richard Cooper as a totem of success is exactly a bright idea. He has anger against women for a reason. He makes a living grifting in the manosphere for a reason. Divorced and therefore butthurt, with a child. There needs to be a non-loser 40 something real old single man with no kids putting forth the information that RC does and I can begin to take it in as credible. Otherwise, he’s just angry. Andrew Tate is also angry for his own reasons. Neither are well adjusted men with stable upbringings and backgrounds
Of course I can't read all comments and watch all of the videos..but very happy to see such sane and truthful advice. The amount of content spewing from the angry and borderline violent men in the manosphere is scary. Where did anyone get the idea they are entitled to get what they want..as much sex as they want and when...to avoid pain and rhe ending of relationships..? and all the other painful aspects of living as a human
@@Aright231Scott Adams provides solid advice about it
@@janetomesIm baffled too. All these red p*** coaches could be one and the same person. Angry and aggressive. If their lives are so ideal after their self improvement, why be so angry? They talk about masculinity and how a man needs to be able to protect a woman but from who? They are the ones that look scary.
@@Aright231 With all due respect, you have erroneously focused on who said it, and not the salient words itself.
Whatever choice you are making, be sure its what you need and not just what you want. however, Perfect marriages or relationships aren't real; they're all different. What works for one person might not work for someone else. But I've come to understand that there's always a solution to problems. Five years ago, my wife and I were close to divorcing because of issues in our marriage, but we found a way to fix them. It was tough, but we survived.
I really understand why what you're saying matters, and I truly want to find happiness as well. I have someone special in my life, and even though we're not together right now, I can't imagine living without her; my love for her is deep. I really hope she comes back, and I'm fully committed to making it happen. We've tried different ways, like therapy, to make things right.
Parting ways with someone you deeply care about is never easy, but in my particular circumstance, I was aided by a spiritual mentor who averted the collapse of my marriage. Her name is Suzanne Ann Walters.
Your guidance is valued. I'll immediately seek her out online. Appreciate it. I'm hopeful that implementing this method will also bring me success; I miss her dearly.
You should... I promise you will not regret it.
@@user-sk7kd8vs2wbots bots
This is gold. I’ve had to decide between women before, I really did feel limited between them, not realizing there are always more out there
This and I am learning about onenitis (limerence) too. I have been here multiple times just to end up in a different road completely. In your head "if I lose either of them or the one, I really bond with my life is over".... not quite. Move to another city...BAM another one shows up. Now it is not even an age issue. People traverse the age gaps more frequently nowadays. For both men and women, if they do not let themselves go.... the world is your oasis now.
Good one as always, sir 👍Back in the day the advice was as follows: "chose the 2nd one as you wouldn't look outside if you were satisfied with the 1st one".
Another one I've heard is, think about how you want your second wife to be, and marry her first.
But how to know which one is the second one?
@@_WoIfY you wouldn't be interested in a second woman in the first place if the first one was good enough. So, the second one is automatically better.
@@d_all_in that's not how life works. Option A is the wife. She is great in all aspects of being a wife and partner you can build a life with.
Option B is the mistress she is everything you physically want in a partner, fun to be around, always keeps you young, and is probably gorgeous.
Now if any of you men actually had options yall would know that you only get one or the other with women. The model or the wife. The wife asks if she looks fat in the dress and you tell her "no baby you look fine" which would be a lie. The model is a beautiful eye candy who has mentioned, though not on purpose or to make a point, how unhappy she would be cooking every day and taking care of children. She loves living her life.
Why can't you choose? Because if you choose A you die a slow death. You become one of those men who comes to work or to the bar or to your homeboy to explain how little segz you get or how much money she spends, or how much common sense she lacks or whatever trivial argument you just had. Side note: we know how many unhappy husband's there are so let's not play coy.
If you choose B you will have all the fun you want, your heart will skip a beat when yall hangout BUT when it's time to get serious and build/save/improve yalls quality of life she doesn't have the discipline to help you through that.
There is a reason one became your wife and the other your mistress. As far as having the DREAM of finding all of that in one person you have the same chance of becoming a millionaire. Those are the only men who have a real chance of finding that woman BUT they have the problem of having to dig through so many ppl only out for their money.
Sorry for the extremely long text but the fact is you can't choose.
Note: This was copy and pasted
@godislove4540 that's not how life works. Option A is the wife. She is great in all aspects of being a wife and partner you can build a life with.
Option B is the mistress she is everything you physically want in a partner, fun to be around, always keeps you young, and is probably gorgeous.
Now if any of you men actually had options yall would know that you only get one or the other with women. The model or the wife. The wife asks if she looks fat in the dress and you tell her "no baby you look fine" which would be a lie. The model is a beautiful eye candy who has mentioned, though not on purpose or to make a point, how unhappy she would be cooking every day and taking care of children. She loves living her life.
Why can't you choose? Because if you choose A you die a slow death. You become one of those men who comes to work or to the bar or to your homeboy to explain how little segz you get or how much money she spends, or how much common sense she lacks or whatever trivial argument you just had. Side note: we know how many unhappy husband's there are so let's not play coy.
If you choose B you will have all the fun you want, your heart will skip a beat when yall hangout BUT when it's time to get serious and build/save/improve yalls quality of life she doesn't have the discipline to help you through that.
There is a reason one became your wife and the other your mistress. As far as having the DREAM of finding all of that in one person you have the same chance of becoming a millionaire. Those are the only men who have a real chance of finding that woman BUT they have the problem of having to dig through so many ppl only out for their money.
Sorry for the extremely long text but the fact is you can't choose.
Plenty of roads, but not plenty of time, resources, and most importantly life energy to engage with multiple people. It starts out great but down the roads you end up feeling like a slave to your choices.
100%. But I feel like I stopped engaging in this self destructive before I was really ready 😂 I am a married man who still has urges to play, flirt, seduce other women, not because I would like them, but I’m so used to the hunting ritual. I knew I had to stop rotating women, so I took that action, but there is definitely a cool-off period needed. Instead, the right woman found me right at that point and two years later, after meeting her 4 years after I started really playboying hardcore, I stopped the behavior completely. I’m leaning on conventional wisdom
Hate to break it to you but you’ll always be a slave to your choices. And you’ll always deal with multiple people in many contexts unless you opt to be a hermit
you'll always be a product of your choices regardless my man. That's how life works.
@@segueoyuri true, but some choices are more depleting than others. Not to put words in the OP's mouth, but I think that was the implication. Been down that road myself, lol..
@@i_accept_all_cookies sure they are. Some choices even drain you for nothing.
My point is, there's no "slavery" to choices. You are the one ultimately making them. There's no escaping them. It's your responsibility. Are you a slave of yourself? Makes no sense.
Our relationships are reflections of the relationships we have with ourselves.
If it's not apparently YES, than it is apparenty NO. If you have to choose between the two, it means that both of them are not suitable. It can be applied anywhere, dating is no exception.
I've been thinking about what if dude cheats because she neglected and the bullshit with us dudes always having to break through the facade of the bad guy, when if they just did the same thing off a whim and would avoid accountability either way.
Just my 2 cents to that: I'd rather say "If you cannot easily choose between the two..." instead of "have to" - because sometimes you will have to choose and cannot have it all. There's opportunity costs attached to a whole lot of aspects in life. But if you have your own compass in mind and option A is clearly better than option B, the choice will not be hard. But if both choices look equal, they're either equally good so no matter what you choose will work out, or they're actually both bad for you, so choosing none and looking for option C will be the prudent decision.
@elpakotheglorious that's not how life works. Option A is the wife. She is great in all aspects of being a wife and partner you can build a life with.
Option B is the mistress she is everything you physically want in a partner, fun to be around, always keeps you young, and is probably gorgeous.
Now if any of you men actually had options yall would know that you only get one or the other with women. The model or the wife. The wife asks if she looks fat in the dress and you tell her "no baby you look fine" which would be a lie. The model is a beautiful eye candy who has mentioned, though not on purpose or to make a point, how unhappy she would be cooking every day and taking care of children. She loves living her life.
Why can't you choose? Because if you choose A you die a slow death. You become one of those men who comes to work or to the bar or to your homeboy to explain how little segz you get or how much money she spends, or how much common sense she lacks or whatever trivial argument you just had. Side note: we know how many unhappy husband's there are so let's not play coy.
If you choose B you will have all the fun you want, your heart will skip a beat when yall hangout BUT when it's time to get serious and build/save/improve yalls quality of life she doesn't have the discipline to help you through that.
There is a reason one became your wife and the other your mistress. As far as having the DREAM of finding all of that in one person you have the same chance of becoming a millionaire. Those are the only men who have a real chance of finding that woman BUT they have the problem of having to dig through so many ppl only out for their money.
Sorry for the extremely long text but the fact is you can't choose.
Suitable for what? That is the question here. I've seen in myself and my friends that you only get to the "A or B" situation when the situation has run its course and it is time for a new chapter. So they were suitable yesterday but today you are aware that its not for you tomorrow.
@@joshualewis4991 I don't know why you think everyone deserves to date a model, who is also wife material. Heck a lot of men don't deserve any woman. Of course that the "candy" is reserved for the best of men.
I feel bad for Chad and Tyrone sometimes. It must be hard being inundated with numerous options, each option competing against the other, trying to give him the maximum amount of unforgettable pleasure, and whatever he decides, all the options that he throws away will always yearn to be with him (alpha widow).
Bro you'd be shocked. They all want to baby trap us and child support isn't cheap.
What makes it hard personally for me is that I genuinely love many of these women bro, I've just never been a relationship-oriented dude. Women show lots of love, I show it back, but then they want EVERYTHING, and I can't give them that cause im a solitary person. From the outside it looks like we're "playing" these women, when in reality I show women lots and lots of love and experiences. Sometimes things just don't work out, and other times they understand me and still love me anyway, never abandoning me. Those are the women In my life I love the most, and always will. I feel the happiest and most free when im with them.❤️
@@marriagecausesdivorce7540 this may just contend for the g*yest, aut!sticest, most cvcked comment of all time
@@Khan-rz8qiExactly. I feel the same way. Women want EVERYTHING once you show them some genuine love, but I’m a sigma male so I don’t have that to offer.
It is very difficult position. Only because they want you to choose. You’re stuck in paralysis analysis. Whole time you’re thinking why should I have to choose! Especially if you’re capable of managing them. You can definitely love more than 1. Some men take the 1 they can get.
Look at military planning, options are not initially considered against each other rather against independent measures. Comparison happens only after. And often parts of different options get combined.
You can’t combine people. But that’s what men actually want to do because there are no perfect options and they all lack something. Therefore, no one is really happy for very long when you’re a person that just wants what you want when you want it, since women will not come and go at your beck and call like dolls on shelves waiting for when you want to play and going in the closet when you don’t.
MDMP - Military Decision Making Process
@@nelsonzambrano5788is there a FM on that subject? I’m very curious to read more about that.
This guy STAYS killing it.
I copped your book, Doc-being delivered tomorrow. Thanks for all that you do.
Dr. Taraban, while I understand and appreciate the "either or" stance you describe here which certainly theoretically and in some cases also very much so practically could work out well in real life, the drama triangle situation that ensues from trying to emotionally attach and keep a good bond with two women at the same time may actually not be all too healthy for neither of the three people involved, especially for a long-term commitment.
From what I've learned on this topic from German couples therapist and board-certified, seasoned psychologist Christian Hemschemeier, love triangles more often than not become an utterly toxic situation. They seem to be quite prone to lead to unnecessary drama (persecutor, victim, rescuer situations). I'd be very reluctant to get into one.
Since triangulation seems to be part of healthy childhood development with mom, dad and the child forming the three corner points of the triangle, it seems to me personally at this point in time that in adult years, triangulations might be a belated attempt of our human psyche to finish the process of healthy separation individuation from mom and/or dad. So, triangulations in adult love affairs aren't wrong but meant to lead to inner psychological development. That's my personal hypothesis at this point in time. I may be wrong, but maybe I'm not.
Juggling both women over a longer course of time (or both men in case of a woman being involved with two men) might end up being as toxic as Mr. Hemschemeier reports from countless real-life cases he encountered and might be so utterly detrimental in most cases, because it's actually not meant to stay at that stage for longer periods. It's possibly serving a purpose, an attempt of the human psyche to grow into one's own, to mature so to speak. To mature into a healthy sustainable and secure way of attachment, which will be very difficult to achieve within the triangle.
I for one can clearly state, I would rather deeply connect and healthily bond with one single man during a mutually as-securely-as-possibly-attached relationship than splitting my attachment between two men. It would feel to me as if I wouldn't be able do any of both men true justice as energy and attention are a limited resource in this realm. Abundance, yes, a great experience to make and I agree, everyone should make it, but even abundance has its limitations, especially when we're not just on the receiving end but also at the same time (hopefully so) likewisely on the giving end.
P.S.: In case you should be interested, Christian Hemschemeier only recently has finally published his first book, Der Liebescode (literally: The Love Code) in English language available on Amazon. It's called Decoding Love: The future of our relationships. I can highly recommend it.
@AnkyPank...an insightful and smart post. The husband, wife and mistress certainly is a triangle and I agree is connected to that mother,father, child triangle from unresolved family of origin issues. Same with husband,wife and wife with lover on side. It's really the process known as "splitting"...if people are aware of what they're doing and why and no secrets (more of an arrangement) then it can be a "stable triangle." It still stands that for that to occur it needs to be discussed and okay with the parties involved.
It is not either/or...that's pretty much the wrong question whether male or female is trying to sort this out. And it is common too...hence why important to do it well and fairly. Example that comes to mind...say wife says I don't want to have sex anymore but wants to stay married? Not difficult for husband to say we'll I do want sex in my life so let's figure this out. She might be okay with him having someone on the side and vice versa...say if husband not interested in sex and wife is then he might say it's not a deal breaker for him for her to have lover on sides. As you're aware there are many reasons for staying married. My point also: I think this type of arrangement takes very mature people, good communication. I'm not talking about infidelity...I'm talking about arrangement within a couple. It's still splitting though and an be emotionally tricky but stable triangles can exist.
With 2 girlfriends a guy has or 2 boyfriends a woman has...a bit different. Takes figuring out what you want and being fair and honest all to each other...
This couldn't have dropped at a better time for me.
Paraphrasing what doc said in another video--
"Forget what she wants. Forget what EVERYONE and ANYONE else wants. Pretend it doesn't exist--- no, pretend it has NEVER existed in your mind.
Now ask yourself: What do YOU want?
(That's an option?)
YES, my brother, THAT IS AN OPTION!!"
💯 Orion is a modern day philosopher. Exactly what I needed to hear
Men are always being self serving. Tell both women. Eventually the one with the most self esteem will leave. Problem solved.
Damn. I needed this right now too.
Can you link this video please?
Sounds like narcissism.
Before choosing between option A and option B, perhaps it would be best to determine why you have this option in the first place. Good choices come from examining all the options and why you have the choice. Why did you get married? How did you end up with a mistress?
Making a decision is easier when you have few choices, but abundance choices bring comfort at a price - the possibility of returning to where you were, or worse, ending up with less than what you had. The higher you are, the more it hurts when you fall.
They end up with a mistress because the marital choice was most probably poor and now he faces serious unmet needs at home.
@@aquietpatron7281 - fewer choices more easier to choose.
@@roses6564 It would be interesting to see an episode on why men take a mistress and why women become mistresses.
@@aquietpatron7281 Why do we talk about "women becoming mistresses" and not "women taking a lover"?
@@aquietpatron7281 Yup. Send him a request.
Just got your book on audible. You have helped me discard many women and use my resources to enforce better behavior. Nice that you self narrated too.
This is great advice for any decision. Adapting it now to a side-project/hobby decision I'm working through.
Although choosing the most narrow road can be burdenson. It is also the shortest road to your goal.
This me when I'm trying to decide ice cream flavors.
Thank you. I needed to hear this. I was option A, and he chose B. It was the direction he wanted to go. 😊
I bet he wanted both A and B, but you wanted him to choose either/or
Any woman watching a Dr Taraban video becomes a better option in my mind. Good luck out there!
I am option A too. After a LOT of open & honest communication, he chose option C “all of the above”.
Another jewel from you, Orion. Thank you for clarifying this. Living in a woman's frame and only ever catering to her wants and needs instead of finding a clear vision on what you want and how you can achieve this with the people in your life, that has been a big part of my life since childhood. I was living in a marriage which grew stale because I only followed a road which had been socialized into me as the only valid road in life. Only now, that divorce is close, and that I found a new partner who fits better into my frame (which I needed to develop after separating from my wife), things finally seem to go somewhere for me.
And yeah, the fake dilemma of two mutually exclusive choices (woman A or woman B) is something that I think many men have experienced at some point. That scarcity mentality was also socialized into me in childhood. Only since I realized it, dropped it and developed a "so what/f**k off" attitude towards people (meaning especially, but not exclusively women) trying to urge me to do stuff I do not want to to just because it suits their plans, my life satisfaction skyrocketed.
Keep going Orion, people need insight like this. You're helping a lot of folks out there.
I understand the underlying principle regarding knowing what you want and not playing into womens frames, but this is immediately problematic when dealing with wives and committed girlfriends. If youre in a relationship that is supposed to be exclusive, youve already lost the plot since youve inherently broken your promise of commitment and exclusivity. You can introduce some of the "know what you want and keep your frame" mentality to help explain how you got to a point where youve broken a commitment, but youve clearly lost the moral high ground. You could potentially use this mentality as a means of negotiation, but youre certainly not in a strong position... if you werent getting what you wanted, you should have addressed it before picking up a mistress or second girlfriend.
However, if we're talking about the initial dating stages, casual dating, or a relationship where there has been clear tocxicitiy, moderate insecurity, or a break up/make up pattern, this mentality instantly becomes a lot stronger. In these contexts, it is much harder for a partner to claim some type of clear moral high ground and you can simply say "hey, ive got to weigh my options before i make a full commitment", because you either barely know the person or you have reason to believe this person might not want your commitment should you even attempt to offer it.
@stevensolof7058 glad someone said this. The idea of reducing the choice of 'early dating of 2 potential partners' and 'choosing between my committed relationship and a side peice' as being essentially the same is really bad advice. And alot of douchey guys are going to use this video to hurt alot of women.
The first question should be "does one of these women have 'committed relationship' status with you?" If so, the mental process is significantly different if you want to be a moral and honest person who lives with an integrated value system.
@@DanCummins Much as we would like, organic real life doesn't align with human-made linear rigid morality. People end up in poorly chosen committed relationships all the time, only for the marital satisfaction to go down the drain in time, without the possibility of resolution, but also without reasonable ways out either. This can leads many people to extra-marital relationships.
When people go with fundamental needs unmet, something's gotta give and moralizing can never prevent such cases.
@@roses6564Moral wannabes are just ppl who think they're better because they have a strength. Ugly, shy, awkward ppl couldn't get multiple partners if they tried so it's easy for them to claim some moral high ground. Statistics show that almost everyone fails when faced with actual temptation so I choose not to listen to the less than ppl
If you choose both you may lose both when one or the other or both get tired of it. Women also have options and the option to leave. He may end up with no one.
Yeah but it’s still the best option if you’re trying to go northwest. Either go northwest or stay where you are and wait for the next bus.
Women have very few options for men who will actually invest in them, and men who have multiple women have essentially infinite choices
You could but you most likely won’t. Women are aroused by a man with options and typically treat you better when you treat them like options. It sounds harsh and makes people uncomfortable but most of the women are in love with the chase and with “falling in love” far more often than they love the man they say they do, and then when they are given monogamy and the chase and falling are over, they will leave if they didn’t truly love the man. And I think we can all agree if you calculate all the relationships ever to exist. A small percentage was true love. Maybe 5%? So most likely you’re going to just increase the likelihood both women stick around.
Stop wandering
Choose a single road
Go there
Make a decision and stay with it...
💪🏻
Orion so many of your talks, I am gasping and laughing at the same time - the originality, boldness and humour in your thoughts.
Congrats on the book release, my man!
I always fascinated by clarity. It's not A vs B but rather which (or neither) is the road to your destination. Thank you again!
Men do know what they want. The reason I have a closet full of clothes is because I have a variety of needs. I have clothes for every option. Women are just like clothes for men. No one shirt is ever going to suit. You need the “t-shirt”, “the crop top”, “the button-up”, the “blouse”. Different types of women offer different values and uses. Even after a man marries, there’s still attractive women with points of use and benefit. The question is, when do you realize you can’t treat people like occasion wear?
But you can if you have options.. you can say it’s bad but men with options can and do treat people like occasion wear.. people who have no problem with it
So, then you think attractive people who have options have a right to treat others as just shirts in a closet, there for their use when they feel like it? You think that’s ok for people to do that and you wouldn’t mind being treated that way?
@@kaitemarie5404 I don’t think it’s okay, personally. But it’s a part of the reality in which we live, and there’s a lot of women comfortable in that position. I think the social contract between the sexes has been broken and that opens the door to things like this. I don’t think it’s okay for me, but if other people are okay with it, I cannot tell them what to be okay with and what not to be okay with. You assume the women in these situations don’t like it, and I think that assumption is unfounded. I’m not saying they all like it either, but there’s definitely some that do and some that don’t, just like everything else..
@@kaitemarie5404 They don't have to treat them as JUST shirts in a closet; they can FUNCTIONALLY treat them like shirts while caring about/for each one quite thoroughly. Many monogamous people treat their partner little better than an outfit; it's just that they've decided to only have one outfit for all situations.
I love the 'both/and - Northwest” approach. I’m going to do the same with my boyfriend and lover as I really benefit from being with both of them in different ways. Thank you so much for the mindset change! Always nice to watch your videos! Congrats for your book!
Good advice, I got weighed down by morality and responsibility in choosing between women before. Sometimes picking neither is a good solution
You mean morality and love? Why would a man choose a mistress other than for love?
you uploaded this video at the right time, I needed this, thanks!
I like this whole approach of the thoughts being restricted. The limiting of one's creative abilities
It took me until 40 to be in a position for abundance in dating, but now that I’m there, it was worth the work. Having options changes the game.
The oldet I get, the more attention I get. But it doesn't bring the decent women out of the woodwork, it just exposes me to even more women who expect to control, use, and emasculate me, and expect me to pedestalise and simp, and to have no boundaries. Looking at the vast majority of couples out there, the man has long since been crushed, and nearly every woman I've met expects to be able to steamroller me in the same way. From the way they react, it's clear I'm the first man they've met who has a backbone and isn't afraid of saying no. The moment they discover that or that I don't simp or pedestalise and they can't CUE me, they're off.
"Oh but there's plenty of decent women out there." No there aren't. I only know of three married/LTRen under the age of 70 or so who haven't been crushed by their woman. The last time I met such a woman was over 24 years ago.
Here in the UK, simping and pedestalising is a woman's bare minimum to date. It also helps if the guy is feminine, gives her female emotions, has a weak jaw, struggles to grow a patchy beard, has as little meat on him as a butchers pencil, and looks like he'd get blown over in a strong breeze. Such 'men' are very rarely without a girlfriend or wife.
Much younger women are VERY friendly towards me though. If I was rich enough, I'd have them as sugar babies as it's clear that's what they want.
I LOVE how you approached that. Most people are so brainwashed that choosing A+B(+C) Or just rotating A-B-H-F-C-Y doesn't even enter their mind. If you are a man that has accomplished this position of being able to choose. Why not go one Step further and don't choose at all. Limiting beliefs, that's why (if you ACTUALLY were a monogamy lover, you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place)
Enjoy monkeypox!
NO.....I'buh, am'buh, a'buh, product'buh of'buh, society, so'buh, I'buh will'buhh give'buh all'buh my'buh posessions'buh to'buh the'bauh buh women buh.............................
Any man who thinks the way you do is slime. NO man is worth sharing especially not ones like you
I learned many years ago to always choose the option that best benefits me. Even if it means not having a woman, at that moment. As mentioned it in the video, there are plenty of roads. Meaning, there will always be other women out there where one will meet your needs.
Women sometimes have to choose between two men also. This is very helpful; I need to ask myself what do I want, and will I get there with this person...not who is more fun, better looking, has more in common with me, etc. Thank you!
@@P.90.603I feel like this video says otherwise or at least the same goes for men too!.. so let's all stop acting morally superior to others.
Great advice about a problem I'll never have.
How's that?
@@leyenda6149 I can't get one woman interested in my let alone two.
@6:38 "It can be hard to base a decision on if it would help them get to where they want to go, because many have not thought about what they themselves would want for quite some time. This is because they have become so in the habit of serving the other and so comfortable existing in the others frame...." What I find to be a pivotal codependency explanation Orion thank you.
I’m in this same predicament. Since 2 days ago, lord knows how much I needed this video!! Thank you!!!
This guy is my spiritual and intellectual other half, love this dude
Dear Naaz, the journey which started 3-4 years ago with tarot is now making sense. And your contributions are invaluable 🙏 and I am grateful for this blessing.
why is it that so many other channels dont make sense and this dude is slowly but sure help me realize im not thinking/serving what i want. i was a slave to others involuntarily. dude thank you, you are helping me get back my fucking life.
I learn something new from Dr. Orion every time he puts out a new video. This is great advice not only for men, but for women too.
From your perspective, please share what you learned...
@@nelsonzambrano5788that when I’m struggling to choose between two men, I need to choose the man that’s going to lead me to my destination as opposed to comparing them to each other. And in the end that may be neither of them.
I was just recently divorced so I’m back in the dating game.
@@nelsonzambrano5788 that if I have to choose between two men, I should never compare them to one another. I just need to choose the man/path that’s going to lead me best to my destination. And that may or may not mean ditching them both.
I’m recently divorced so I’m back in the dating game. It’s been quite a journey.
Most of the good advice for men does not actually apply to women
If you can't decide one over another, both are likely not ideal in the dating market; you know when you hit the one.
Divorce statistics would say that no a lot of men do not know when they hit "the one".
I agree with all but the last two words: the one doesn't exist, especially if you treat her like one (just see her treat you as less and less)
'The One', huh? I know we're living in the matrix, but Neo's a man, not a woman.
There is a “one” for me, I’m married to her. But it’s a hardcore adorer (her) and adoree (me) situation where she wants to make it like we both co-adore each other. That’s her mission with me. But damn, she is the most wifey wife to ever walk the earth. AND she has all her own assets, house, cars, etc.
@@Aright231 That's awesome. Congrats.
I had to choose between my wife and my mistress. No I'm not proud of it (long story). I was on the fence for so long. I couldn't decide. It was until I came up with plan "C". Plan "c" was I am going to stay with my infant daughter. I choose my daughter over wife and mistress. Essentially staying with my wife...and daughter.
That was honorable. Your daughter will need you and your help to pick out a good mate for herself when she's grown. Gotta be a good example.
Man, this isn't scarcity mentality. This is just wasting time.
My copy of your book "The Value of Others" should arrive soon! Thanks in advance for writing it sir.
It’s a good advice, not only for men. This may mean, however, you’ll end up alone because nobody fits into your goals.
Reading your book and so far love it…someday it will be taught in schools.. keep up the good work!
I always had difficulties not only relating to but even just understating that concept of « scarcity vs. abundance mindset »…
Until today
Thank you doctor
🤔🧐😳 At 6:43 - Wow, that's an accurate observation on so many aspects of my life over many years. I have some reflecting to do.
Thank you!
😲🤔👍
When I was young, there were three times I could have had a moment with a promiscuous girl, but declined because it would have, I thought, ruined my chances with someone I wanted as a girlfriend, someone we both knew. I never ended up getting any as a girlfriend. Today, one of my smaller regrets is that I didn't take advantage of those offers. I learned a bird in the hand is worth more than an imaginary flock in a bush. Que sera sera I guess.
I regret the chances I didn't take more than I regret the mistakes I made - I have a mix of both
What means "que sera sera"?
@@lahbatataaayt Its from a song written in the 60s.
Whatever Will Be, Will Be The song popularized the title expression "que sera, sera" as an English-language phrase indicating "cheerful fatalism", though its use in English dates back to at least the 16th century. Contrary to popular perception, the phrase is not Spanish in origin (in Spanish it would be "lo que será, será"), and is ungrammatical in that language.[3] It was evidently formed by a word-for-word mistranslation of English "What will be will be".[
My opinion it is the rare guy that actually has a choice between two (or more) women. Most men either only have the opportunity to date different women serially or struggle getting dates at all
The good doctor does not miss.... Great perspective here
Just bought your book, can't wait to start reading it!
I limited my woman to 3 at a time & saw each one when l felt like it. I didn't gaf & they loved it. I didn't even know why they liked it but now l do understand it now. I was 6'3" blonde green eyes & good shape back then. I'm 63 now & just have my 1 now she's all I really needed.
I wish I am as lucky as you in my next life!
Basically have a standard that meets your goals. See if they're applicable to your standards that you establish. Blessings 💜
There is a entire alphabet of options
Ok but I don't want any of the LGB#+&=>×*£&@
Right!
For most of us, it's neither/nor!
Really? I can have BOTH? 😂 Danger, Will Robinson!
hiw old are you, 60?
Yes, yes you can
YES! All relationships are on the table with COMMUNICATION.
Actually, yes. Yes you can, but beware, that road leads to its own destination and you might not like where it takes you too
Wow! This is the exact talk I was looking for🙏😭❤️ No one on RUclips has covered this ground as far as I've found (and I binge tf out of RUclips almost daily following wannabe gurus and experts 😅) ... In short there are a lot of men living for others because that's in the modern male program. They're utilized and instumentalized (fn tools) for the women who use them. We like to be useful because thinking and strategizing invites trouble and we are better off being in the hands of a thoughtful and careful owner (a woman who will maintain us). BTW I subscribed. Thank you so much!!!
*Amazing video, you work for 4Oyrs to have $1M in your retirement, meanwhile some people are putting just $10K into trading from just few months ago and now they are multimillionaires*
Hello, I am very interested. As you know, there are tons of investments out there and without solid knowledge, I can't decide what is best. Can you explain further how you invest and earn?
Same, I operate a wide- range of Investments with help from My Financial Adviser. My advice is to get a professional who will help you, plan and enhance your management skills. For the record, working with Barry Silbert, has been an amazing experience.
Hello how do you make such monthly?? I'm a born Christian and sometimes I feel so down🤦🏽of myself because of low finance but I still believe in God
I'm favoured, $90K every week! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless America,, all thanks to Mr Barry Silbert
Such information we don't get from most RUclipsrs, how can I get to him
"The value of others". Also, how can i make others conform around my desires, and drop them when theyve outlived their usefulness?
I got left hand or right as an option 😊
Just purchased paperback copy of your book ☺It'll be an enjoyable bedtime read.
Everyone thinks they got options until hard times hit.. then u realise u actually dont have options, or maybe u did have someone who did actually love u even at your worst but you thought cause u have options at your best that means you actually got options 😂nope
If they look like you, they lack options! 😢😢
"Sometimes its a 'both/and' solution and sometimes its a 'neither/nor' solution." My man. This reframe dropped a cartoon grand piano on me. Thank you so much.
First video I’ve ever had a problem with what Orion is saying. Having a mistress is not cool or manly, it’s childish and irresponsible. He allowed his pessimism of marriage, or any committed relationship from what it sounded like here, to overshadow his common decency.
This is a perception based upon the Christian standard of marriage/monogamy which many people no longer subscribe to.
I think he was making a broader point. He's said elsewhere on more than one occasion he believes people should honor their explicit agreements.
It's more that Dr. Orion demonstrates a pretty strong Machiavellian streak in his talks. Morality is an entirely different framework from "doing what works to win the game," and this has been his primary angle from the get-go.
@@susandavis903 Seriously? You have to be taught that cheating is wrong to know it?
Men all over the world have arrangements with women like this. Women don’t actually mind sharing a guy, they mind being embarrassed
I think that if you don't know what you want, it doesn't matter what you choose.
I just bought your Audiobook 👍
The good doctor out here spittin… as usual. 🤘🏿
Wow i'm here 23 minutes after the post! It's amazing for me since i live half world away from you orion
Great content as always!
Wow! Both sides give such crazy advice. 🤪 I feel sorry for those coming up next trying to make a relationship work.
When I was in college I derived self worth as a man from how many women I could get with. Having been in this exact same scenario. Looking back, more often than not, this is due to a boy being insecure and needing validation while getting caught up in his emotions. A genuine man doesn’t need eye candy for validation. He stays in his own respective frame. If you find yourself in this false dichotomy 90% of the time, you aren’t in the right headspace for either women
HIT the nail. Elaborate further.
Well said.
Well said. Same for women.
You can lie all you want for likes from women but the FACT is men who can, do, because of testosterone. Minus the exception to the rule stories most men with high testosterone have multiple partners. That's statistically proven so keep your feelings and pandering out of real conversations please
💯
Finally I can see a balance happening for men in this dance we have with women, we are getting more aware on how they really are and how we are regarding women.
Liked the video just in the intro, before the content. I know it will deliver ❤ what a topic!
Audio book was amazing. Loved the cadence and expression. The written chapters were well marked out. . And such a treat of 10 glorious hours!
Home Run. You should be proud Dr.
Be sure to leave a review on the platform if you haven't already! : )
Bro choosing between 2 women you actually want and have your in life is hard af. You don't want to make the wrong choice with who you move forward with.
"You don't want to make the wrong choice with who you move forward with." Soulbreaker, so you're dragging them both behind your horse? You're using them both.
I’m keeping both
Perfect timing 👌🏽
Thank you for this episode, I really needed this. This is also true for women choosing between 2 guys. Anyone who you feel like makes you feel like an option (It can be noticed), don't choose that person. That person is looking for something else but that is not you, or at least not you entirely, you want someone who wants you 99.99%. And definitely choose yourself and the direction of your life.
All women are options for the men they want because they don’t want men without options
I'm 47 and have been single for 7 months. All kinds of relationships previously. I had to relearn everything. Your teaching has been instrumental to me. ❤ you
I had trouble choosing between the 3 most important woman in my life.. and it was suggested that I marry all three of them...this was their suggestion... and we have been happy ever since. ... this road is not for everybody though... but it has worked well for us and our arrangement... all three have determined that I am valuable enough for them to share... Im am the road that they have all decided to follow....
Worked out great for Kody Brown.
Nice larp 😊
Way 2 go!
Must not be very valuable women
what things are you bringing to the table to be valuable enough for all three of them?
Cheating is a problem that shouldn't exist.
It shouldn’t, but everyone wants someone that is way out of their league! Like genuinely wants that and no less!
@@nivh it is definitely not easier in terms of keeping it a secret. Probably easier in the instigating it. Sorry that happened to you man. Perhaps a sign that the woman is trying to match the feeling she gets from validation online, actually in the flesh. Easier to cheat ten years ago though.
We forever cheating because "YOU" ain't worth commiting to like most women . Benefits no man to only keep one modern woman with all her entitlements 😂😂😂😂
I would say nothing and nobody cheats faster than a cluster b . Borderline girl. They have dudes lined up no matter what the situation with present is. Its bizzare, heartbreaking for all...even for them as well..maybe...
@@TurbulantSynider those are always the physically hottest girls aren’t they? Power corrupts. I have based my life on not giving even an ounce more praise and esteem to very beautiful women more so than any average person…because of the destruction they wreak. And yes it is worse when they are borderline.
Within the context of this video - here's a different circumstance and set of decisions. One of the two women doesn't know she's "another woman" and the man is actually in the predicament of trying to choose. Why would a man create that circumstance? How to go about figuring out a solution?
Great advice! I personally don’t need it for relationship but it’s a good general practice. I get lost in comparison between options instead of weighing the choices against my overall goal. This comparison not only reduces my happiness but diminishes the quality of my decisions.
In my experience if you are satisfying every women that you are dealing with and even if they know about one another they won't leave you. Those women will be upset but they won't leave. So men that women see value in those men can have their cake and eat too.
OR with open communication both women will be happy with the relationships
@@susandavis903 the man is in control of what he wants to do and if he doesn't want to open the communication these women will still stay. We see it time and time again.
Older man with ED dates older woman A but later attracts younger woman B, who becomes his lover in spite of ED. He then tells woman B about woman A but refuses to break up with woman A. Much later, woman B finds out that woman A wears Poise pads and man says there is no sex, but have sleep-overs and cuddle and kiss. However, woman A thinks the man and her are a couple. Any thoughts?
Thanks dudeeee! For all of this, thanks. Really, thank you! I'm clear of what i have to do, i forgot about the scarcity mentality, it's makes all the sense in the world
Problem solved! ❤ (Same goes for women at a crossroads)
Yes, the man must choose which women fits in where he wants to go, it might be a third option ...or leave the position vacant until a good prospect comes along.
Thank you for this video🙏🙏🙏
*If a man is cheating on his wife, clearly he is in fact thinking very much about what he wants, even at the expense of others. And yet, you still say for him to be even more selfish. Morality and civilization are doomed. The leaders of online masculinity embrace polyamory and adultery like its no big deal.*
I chose the wrong one to date and ended up losing both
Good for the two women honestly.
You are brilliant. Thanks for doing this.
Gotta turn the gain down on that mic. Haha. I love the content!
Thank you. This goes deep, in many different contexts.
My man made a choice earlier in his life between me and some other woman that was originally easier because she lived closer and he thought he loved her. She was also much older and had a child by someone else. Fast forward…he no longer has this woman in his life because he had to go through a school of hard knocks. We are together now for good.
@UrsaBella May I ask how was the reconciliation process like? How did you trust him again? In a similar situation
@@gracefullyrachel6573 I never had any trust issues with him. He formally broke up with me. He was too young to understand that single older woman with child is never a good option for any man. We love each other and have always been meant for each other. My reconciliation process was easy. I am not jaded and not neurotic.
A man that has a mistress “never puts himself first” you crack me up with these lil rants 🤦🏾♀️🤣
what a good way to cope with the affairs around u thru ur life, ain't it?
@@Kim-vw4nx Is funny...the man saying he feels "controlled" in that situation when really he is running the show already. Guess Orion is speaking of men who aren't self-aware.
Women can most certainly do same...be married and have lover on side. Will often feel they don't have control when they are also running show same as men in situation.
The problem I have with situation is secrets. If couple has an arrangement that's totally different
@@csmith9699 yes it is different. but the society, especially USA society which has its roots in puritanism, can't look at that any differently than "it's cheating" (except that it's not - rationally proven). People are stupid, that's it, u gotta make amends with that.
Everybody has a breaking point. It's entirely possible that the man never put himself first UNTIL he got a mistress. A person can act "selflessly" and never put themselves first for a very, very long time until they eventually reach the point where they've had enough or the temptation becomes too strong. I'm not saying I agree with the decision to have a mistress, but there's no contradiction in what Orion said. A person can consistently be one way for a long time, until they aren't.
@@kylemacdougall8355 So glad you said a person...including men and women...can go both ways. Still imo, best to be self-aware enough to know what's going on and what you're doing before your breaking point. Everyone in any relationship regardless of what it is needs to know upfront what their dealbreakers are and communicate them...whether husband to wife, wife to husband, worker to boss, boss to worker, friend to friend. Just a common sense thing for anyone
For the W1/W2 case, the separate evaluation of each woman (1/0) is only possible in theory. In practice, the comparison is inescapable. Likewise, giving up two birds in the hand for an endless number in the bush borders on pathology, unless both women suck, in which case there's no choice to make.
For the W/M case, keeping both is an option only if both women agree with polygamy. It doesn't matter if that's what the man wants.
If only the mistress agrees, we have the classic "affair" which turns toxic because of the secrecy required to sidestep society's moralistic hysteria when the Situationship surfaces.
If the mistress doesn't agree either ("leave her or I am gone"), then the choice is made for him and he is back to wife.
The vast majority of men in such situations almost always err on the side of wife because it is the default, headache-free position to take, no grief from society.
Mom-Society sets the default: wife > mistress, even when wife = Medusa and mistress = Cinderella.
Like an goody-to-shoes child, the man obeys.
Also Orion: "women are loyal to their feelings, men are loyal to their duties, else society calls them cowards and traitors for abandoning family."
Agency, choice, free will are a lot more limited than people realize.
All men that forgive women and dont demand immediate change and respect will never ever be satisfied.
I've never had options, can't relate in this episode...