Deadly Obsession | Investigation of Thai Airways 261
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- Опубликовано: 18 мар 2023
- This Air Crash Investigation looks at Thai Airways International Flight 261, an Airbus A310 flying from Bangkok to Surat Thani Airport. As the crew approach their destination, with most of the approach aids not working, they fight against the weather to try and see the runway, finding themselves in cloud with a visibility of 1000m. This leads to several attempts to land, with the crew getting more frustrated and focused on finding the runway with each try. On the final attempt, the crew become so focused on trying to find the runway, their aircraft enters a stall and forces the crew to act to attempt to save everyone on board.
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Any accident is obviously terrible but I didn't expect any survivors from such an accident. The fact that anyone walked away from this with "minor injuries" is really very surprising.
My thoughts too.
Indeed
My grandpa got minor injuries on the plane
Dude I love your channel, for us non pilot folks you have a fantastic way of explaining all the technical bits 😀 👍 👏
That’s great to hear, thanks David.
You strike the perfect balance between storytelling to a wide audience and using enough parlance to keep the enthusiast engaged. Nice work. Thank you
Thank you, I’m always trying to refine this balance. That’s good to hear.
I get that pointing the nose down when you're stalling is the last thing you want to do emotionally and I can see why a person who didn't know that you're supposed to do that to recover would fail to do it, but I don't understand why you still wouldn't do it after having been told how to recover from a stall. I remember when I first flew a flight simulator, I kept trying to fly up only to find the plane crashing back into the ground and, when my dad said you had to fly at the ground, I didn't even believe him. But then he told me to take off again and let him have the controls when I stalled and he proved it to me. After that, I would pitch the nose down whenever I stalled and this simulator was of a very large military aircraft. I think it was the C-130 but I don't remember now as it was nearly 4 decades ago. Once someone tells you that, in order for the plane to fly, enough air has to be passing around the wings so you push the nose down, you'd think that you'd override the instinct to try to fly higher and instead recover control of the plane by flying down until enough air passed over the wings. I was a very little kid when I learned this!
It's a step above the rest that you looked up the approach charts and other relevant documents from that era. Kudos to you for providing these documentary aids to our understanding.
One small note pertains to the NOTAM acronym. I'm not a pilot but according to the FAA, the M stands for missions.
Thank you, 😁 and yes you are right, the FAA changed it earlier this year, other aviation authorities have changed it also to all different things. The CAA for example now, call it a ‘Notice to Aviation’
I guess because it’s not just air-Men these days… nice of them to make it inclusive. But even I as a lady prefer the original. Sounds cool…
@@CuriousPilot90 I'm not sure why they say aviation rather than Aviators given that that would be a more direct replacement and sound less... tortured
So glad I just found this channel. Thanks.
Pitch trim dropped automatically . It was located at left overhead panel . The copilot of that flight is my friend. We graduated from flying school in Jan 1995.
Seems to me that after their third go around, instead of flying the procedure they both kept looking for the runway!
Situational awareness is of the utmost importance especially in low visibility. I’m surprised that anyone survived never minding the fact that some only had minor injuries!
is it up to the pilots to decide the visibility factor for themselves?
I live in the South of Thailand and It was monsoon rain at the time and monsoon rain on approach which equals zero visibility on the Ground.and in the Air.
@@louisdisbury9759 I can't even picture how "rain" and "zero visibility" can be in one sentence... only if my eyes are closed I can a little.. and it's a little scary..
Very nicely put together and presented video mate, well done!!!
I found your channel when you first started and really love your content. Thanks again for another great video :-) please keep them coming!
Wow. That’s really appreciated, thank you :)
Thank you once again, for covering an accident I did not know about.
Also your Videos keep getting better, love to see it!
I appreciate it, thank you.
Fantastic video! Thank you for this. Another incident I haven’t heard of before! It seems like the crew were all over it (apart from risking the visibility) up until they got distracted. Such a shame. Thank you for this!
Thank you
"Aviate, navigate, communicate." The first rule is to aviate, and they forgot! It cost their own and others' lives.
@@wafikiri_ When one pilot is looking out, or dealing with communications, the other pilot should wholly concentrate on flying the aircraft. If the pilot flying is asked to look out for more than a few seconds, their roles should immediately reverse. It is a fairly easy discipline to adopt. Even then, the pilot monitoring should be monitoring the instruments.
Except in a few cases where they are flying to an airport that they are conversant with due to frequent landings, landing below minimum visibility should never be attempted in the first place.
You explain this very, very well. I am a retired airline pilot. I applaud your video.
That's very kind of you, thank you.
Another great episode! Thanks for your hard work :)
Bad visibility, most of the ILS equipment not working, 2 failed approaches. Should have called it off after 2 aborts, better to admit defeat and live another day than try to push it and smear yourself all over the countryside. Speaking as an ex pilot.
That's not what caused it. It's just bad pilots who don't comprehend aviation or how planes and aerodynamics work. Full power raises the nose. The recovery should have been obvious. Reduce power and wings level. But they just simply didn't understand. They think it's a car. Oh you want go up you put full power and put nose up and plane go up. No it don't work like that
really well made videos and great footage from in the sim
I subbed great channel😄
Welcome aboard!
Doesn't sound like the sharpest aircrew. Sad for the deceased. 😢
Up to the stall recovery, I get their reasoning
What a terrible tragedy. Another well researched, well presented video, very informative. All I can say is - thank the Lord I'm not a pilot! There are so many things to be remembered, let alone any technical problems with any given aeroplane. Even experienced pilots can get things wrong, and when things do go wrong, the results can be deadly.
You have a criminally low subscriber count for such great content. Hopefully you grow! You're in my top 4 channels (any guess...not in any order - Greendot, you, disaster breakdown and Mentour).
One of my most enjoyed flights was on a Thai 747 from Sydney to BangCock. We sat in an exit row and I really enjoyed the beer and peanuts.
Sad and tragic ending. I really wish pilots would understand that their primary duty is to FLY THE PLANE! Not look for landmarks, airfields or try troubleshooting error codes. That's why you have a co-pilot.
What a mess! In those high workload parts of flight (even more so when you add stress related to situations like that one) it must be hard to stay on top of everything
Disobeying rules like minimum visibility leads into stress during a critical phase of flight.
There should always be one pilot flying the plane. Once that extreme nose up attitude was noticed, that should have been a wake up call to pay attention but, whoever was flying that plane, didn't even get the aircraft back into normal flaight before he stopped paying attention to what it was doing.
Loved the way you explained VOR and DME which makes it easier to understand. I hope all airlines have by now included upset aircraft recovery training for their pilots.
Except that it doesn't tell you how either the VOR or the DME actually give you a radial or distance.
Both are essentially time devises. The DME simply times the round trip distance of a query signal sent from the plane to the DME and the response from the DME sent back to the plane.
A VOR does have two signals. One is omnidirectional. The other is a focused beam that is rotating around the full 360° of a circle at a constant rate. The omnidirectional beacon is broadcast every time that the directional beam points true north.
So to get your VOR radial you listen for the broadcast from the omnidirectional antenna and start timing until you receive the maximum signal from the rotating focused beacon signal. Knowing the full 360° rotation time of the VOR and the how long you measured between the observing the omnidirectional signal and the rotating signal, you can calculate how far the rotating signal traveled around the circle before it reached you.
For example, suppose I know from the chart that a VOR has a rotational speed of 360° per 60s. I hear the the omnidirectional signal and then time until I hear the rotating signal pass by 35s later. I am therefore on radial (35s/60s)×360° = 210° SSW of the VOR's position. The VOR's position is therefore 210°-180° = 30° NNE of my position.
@@timharig can you dumb this explanation down a bit please? I appreciate it thanks!
@@timharig Your VOR explanation is of an obsolete goniometer transmitter. The goniometers were fed with a 30hz FM modulated 9960hz signal at station frequency. The goniometers rotated at a 30cps rate this produced a 30cps amplitude modulation. . The goniometers actually swung a beam that could be deflected by obstacles (scalloping of the beam). The more modern doppler transmitter is a circle of switched antennas. These are fed with a 30cps AM modulated 9960 signal and switched in rotation at a 30cps rate. The 30cps FM modulation is produced by the doppler shift caused by the radiating point advancing and receding relative to the aircraft. There now is no beam to cause scalloping. Navigating with VOR is the same. In my day it was called Visual Omni Range. This was opposed to the oral dot dash- on course tone- dash dot of the Adcock Range. At LAX the Doppler VOR is on a hill past the west end of 25L. Fifty feet north of center is the TACAN/ DME transmitter. It looks like a hat on Google Earth. TACAN and its DME component is another pedantic explanation.
Very nice visual.
Thanks.
I am just an old housewife, but I could have recovered from that stall...thanks to years of Aircrash Investigation
Good morning Captain
It was amazing watching your video explaining airplane sound and noise
U are a top G
I know u said u are not a commercial pilot...are u able to do a video how strart a Gulffstrean G6500 step by step please?
Thank you
Curious Pilot… Curious Droid? Hmmmmm. Anyhow, great channel! 😊
I like your work at where you are going with this. Great editing and decent narration. Although give the ATC Comms and inflight P.A.s a miss, it doesn’t work and cheapens your production sounding more like poor comedy. Your work is better than that.
One thing you could do is explain a little technical information, like how does an ILS work, functions of and how an autopilot works, various modes, major differences with Airbus automation, and how wildly different Airbus cockpits are as a complete system, dangers with side sticks vs Boeing yokes which features duplicated flight control inputs are on both controls therefore more obviously alerted to incorrect inputs being made vs Airbus clandestinely to the side out of view. Just some ideas.
Your work is excellent. I’ve 'liked' and subscribed, I’m going to watch a few more now and 'like' them also.
Keep up the excellent work. Looking forward to seeing more.
Cheers, Anton
Full disclosure I have cut and pasted this from one other video also, in case you didn’t read it!. :)
Thanks for the feedback! Always welcomed, especially when it’s helpful like this.
Your bias towards Boeing yokes and against Airbus sidesticks is apparent. You missed mentioning that the yoke linking system is prone to several malfunctions. Airbus lateral placing of sidesticks is not clandestine but practical and comfortable. I have never used them but would have liked to have the chance before I retired.
Isn't there any protection to prevent stalls in Airbus? (Alpha something) Why those systems didn't protect the plane?
I used to working as air hostess in Thai airways
It was best day in my life .
My god, a pilot with only ab initio training knows you don't use power with a high nose attitude in a stall. Proper stall recovery technique is a manoeuvre one should NEVER forget.
I’m from Thailand and my grandcousin and my grandfather was on that plane. My grandcousin did not survive but my grandfather did.😢 My mom said that my grandcousin died because there was only the left side lights on the runway.
Personal rule here: never attempt a third approach.
Great concise explanation.
Very disappointed to hear the pilots were more concerned with a connecting route / where the plane is meant to be than safety. Also ignoring minimums and so many attempts to land.
I live in the south of Thailand and remember this incident and light rain was an understatement ti was full-blown monsoon rain that if caught in that at low altitude would be impossible to realise the attitude of the aircraft, Monsoon Rain at low altitude would make navigation and visual flight impossible because visibility would be zero but interesting to find out the accident was caused through a stall and the reason why I allways try and fly Boeing.
Just a heads up, full power is the correct input when entering a stall. What he needed was severe downpush
If you watch the video to the end, you will see what the correct recovery drill for the stall was and why.
Landing assistance instruments not functioning, incorrect charts, landing lights not working properly, poor visibility, lack of visual cues, failure to monitor instruments, I cannot believe that the flight crew attempted a third try. It's a no brainer: can't find the runway, divert to another airport or, as the two pilots agreed on, return to Bangkok. What were they thinking? Or perhaps what kind of culture existed in the airline? Delays, diversions and cancellations are part and parcel of flying. If the airline is docking their pilots' pay because of the weather, something they can't control, then accidents like this will keep happening.
👍🏼
Just noticed a harrowing coincidence, both thai a310 crashes had involved diverting to calcutta as an option, which couldve prevented the crash too
Bangkok international is now don mueang intl.
Thousands of hours flying time do not mean squat if you don’t hand fly the airplane enough to maintain basic flying skills.
Might have helped if the airport maintained their ILS etc.
FUN FACT: VOR was invented in Germany. To guide their planes to London.
😜 your kidding? what was in London exactly?
15:25 No, not true. During this very high stress period-with other distractions-the pilot would have defaulted to his incorrect instincts and added power instead of doing the opposite/counterintuitive thing-reduce power... 😢
Your channel is underrated. Please get him more views, likes and subscribers.
no stick shaker?
The stick shaker did activate. The sound got drowned out when I reduced the sound on the clip. I should have included it in the narration.
Cool thanks I was wondering if maybe it hadn’t been invented yet or something great job on the videos lovin them!
I just dont understand. You must "ALWAYS FLY THE PLANE". No matter what, you keep an eye on the instruments and ALWAYS FLY THE PLANE...so sad and so unnecessary.
With all that ground electronics unavailable The crew and company should have decided to cancel the flight or delay it until the weather vastly improved The hell with The money lost
😅
I only saw two things that caused this crash. For one, the airport should have been shutdown to commercial traffic. The weather was as bad is it could be and it had zero working guides for anything but VOR traffic. For another, the plane had to people at the controls who were in no way competent pilots. The first rule of flying a plane is _always_ _fly_ the plane. Never sight-seeing.
This is like something out of the 1930s. What do you mean you don't know if it's the runway or a boat?! For God's sake, just go back to Bangkok.
I agree with @peer6939 you strike a good balance, which is why I've been binge watching your series. :)
Recently in the US, NOTAM has been change by the PC crew to be notices to air missions. I'm not sure many pilots care about this and I'm not nit-picking you, but the "genderless" term is supposed to make us all feel more relaxed. I guess.
0:35 my birthday date
I am forever astonished what sort of people think it is a good idea to play airplane. Why is this stupid potato field even open without any and all equipment working.
The number of airbuses that have stalled is something of concern. Almost all while on full automation.. Crews uncomfortable flying manually or the Airbus logic doing something wacky.
Or you’re interpreting something into it that isn’t there. If there was a concern, there would be grounding of aircraft
Just some problems here. Information is wrong in some areas, including that the plane was registered as belonging to the Thai royal airforce (albeit used as a Thai airways plane) so NTSB and Airbus was not allowed to join the investigation until "embarrassing information" had been cleared out.
ÕMĞ é PôWéŘ-PhÛľĽ Orrrsé-Strâylêans
😟😟😟😰😩😟😰😩😩😧😧😧😦😥😦😧😦😳😵😶😵😵😳
I can speak the Thai luggage, er, I mean Language. As with yourself, I have 'attention to detail' on my CV. Sur-rLat-Tar-Knee, is the correct pronounciation.
Unfortunate when these crashes happen outside of India.
Damn bro who hurt you
Wat?