@@kingofkings3624 yes so far Jon has really been the best player among his family but his downfall was in not making his men understand his decisions and the bigger picture he was seeing.
@@joyboy_3165 for sure. I feel his decision to let the wildlings through was done alot smarter in the books cause he makes them man the castles and give up their weapons. However he legitly broke his vows by wanting to ride down to save fake arya
I think that the Stoneheart-in-Waiting, despite being able to observe well and even having a decent thought process, used to act on impulses and ponder consequences later, because she always got away with this course of action. In my opinion, the Red Wedding was a logical result of this habit.
Exactly. People seem to miss the fact that in the books she said that Jon couldn't stay in Winterfell with no thought for how that would affect anyone else and of course eunech Ned agrees 🙄. I suppose in the end she got what she wanted Jon dead ( he was the main cause of that though) but if she had shown him just abit of basic respect he would have followed Robb to the end of the world. Perhaps having a brother would have made a difference
Well what would have been Jon role in feudal system? It be hard or an insult to try and marry him off to another high lords daughter. You already have a ton of true born children to make matches for and what not. So yeah get rid of him.
@@wisdommanari6701 Ned could easily have set up so that he started his own branch of Starks. In terms of marrying, he went from being a son of the second most powerful men in the realm to the brother to a Northern King. Robb clearly kept him in very high regard as we know from that will of his. If they just tried they could have done something.
I know you only mentioned him breifly but I absolutely love Ser Dontos the Red. He was ride or die for Sansa after she saved his life, if and when Sansa finally gets rid of Petyr, I hope she does it in the name of Ser Dontos The Red.
Interesting how GRRM put a piece of modern Western European culture into this unreflected. These days we dont eat horsemeat as it is seen as inferior meat or eating a friend. In midevial times one did not eat horse as it was seen as pagan food, also a horse was an expensive acquisition, it was the last thing you would kill.
Tyrion’s horse was dying, so they butchered it for meat.Being the road they were on was treacherous, they didn’t have the luxury of easily hunting for food. I don’t think GRRM was intentionally reflecting modern WE culture rather, “desperate times call for desperate measures.”
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds I believe you are correct, without fact checking :) I tried to give a short answer. There are some archeological evidence of horses heads being burried etc. Eating horsemeat was illegal in France up til like 1850-something, there was a famine and it became legal. So I think your teacher was referencing "modern" days. To the Roman empire horse would then be "pagan" meat n it carried through into Christian times in for instance old England. Today it is mostly racehorses or old horses that go to slaughter, so the meat might be stringy? But sliced smoked horsemeat on a sandwich is gooood. Isn´t it very Ice&fire that horsemeat is seen both as very prescious and very dirty meat :) ..I should look this up!
Well he took out their leader and is now playing for the other team so yeah. He is taking it more as it isn’t his family anymore after the Tysha confession.
One other fact to point out about Tyrion’s disdain about the butchering of the horse is it wasn’t so much the idea of eating horseflesh that bothered him, but that it was HIS horse they were butchering. If you recall his instructions at Winterfell about training Bran’s horse, (starting training when the horse is a yearling, and specially training it to respond to the voice and reins) it’s pretty obvious that he had put in a great deal of time getting to know his horse through specialized training. Then, to watch them butchering it for meat had to be hard.
If I recall correctly, what happened was that after the dual with Brandon, when Petyr was recovering and heavily sedated with the milk of the poppy, Lysa snuck into his room and had sex with him which in his "fever dream" Petyr thought was Catelyn and not to mention Lysa ended up pregnant and that's the whole final regret of Hoster Tully thing and reason for marriage with much older Jon Arryn
I’m really upset about the ending as well because I used to love going back and watching the show from the begging and binge watching it but knowing what’s going to happen at the end and how bad it is I can’t do it anymore.
@@Nash9r I've tried twice. 1-6 is still good. But both times I only made it a few minutes into season 7 before I shut it off and didn't go back. A few minutes!!!!
I LOVE GETTING THESE GRAY AREA NOTIFICATIONS HONEYYYYYY!!!!! Can’t wait to watch this. Happy Thanksgiving fellow North Americans, and more importantly happy Native American Heritage Month.
I totally disagree Catelyn is far more savy and fierce than Sansa. Sansa is turning into a version of Catelyn that just understands the game much much better than her mother.
@@samtagg8754 catelyn is older but she is totally consumed by those same stories of the honorable knights and blah. Blah blah... that’s why she believes little with no hesitation also why she WANTs to believe “the imp” did it because there’s no Honor in cripples bastards and broken things. This is the same was Sansa sees the world
That's not even slightly true she believed the imp did it because her childhood friend told her so. She seriously underestimated the machinations of littlefinger but she's hardly alone there! She also instantly took to Brienne. She outsmarted Tyrion she had a deep level of intuition about the freys she was a staunch believer in the dire wolves. At the same time a lot of the downfall of house Stark can be at least partially attributed to her mistakes she coerced Ned to go down South she arrested Tyrion she trusted Littlefinger and Lysa. Sorry a rambling respondents Catelyn is an extremely complicated character who is both an intelligent strong human being and the catalyst for her families downfall.
I love the show but I've been reading the books and its fantastic reading his POVs and seeing him play the game of thrones the way Ned could never do. It's amazing to read.
What are you guys talking about. Sansa has had the most growth in the story. Yeah sure in the beginning she wasn't the best but that is because she believed her father new everything. The same thing we probably believed when we were her age. It is when her father dies she has to move on from that and live her life and make her own decisions.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone let's have some fun. I dunno she may not have had constant communication with her sister but her families words are family duty honor she. Like she has no reason to not trust her sister. I feel like a lot of this is hindsight and unfair. I've not really spoken to my sister in 3-4 ish years aside from the holiday text but I'd still trust her if I needed some serious help. why would she trust Tyrion? He's a total stranger and a Lannister. These guys literally have a tribal/gangster mentality. Your last name/colors declare your loyalty and your allegiance. Peter is one of Jon Arryn vassals. He should be loyal to him and thus her sister and also to her. That makes sense in this world. It's why "turncloaks" are hated so much because if you are someone's vassal the assumption is that you ride or die for them. That's the point of the whole feudal system. Yeah I love the Dornish... Does anyone dislike those chapters? I really enjoy Darkstar as well, but he is 120% innocent of the mutilation of Marcella. Ah the Faegon thing. Yeah Tyrion divorcing the two Targ clauses is definitely going to get him killed. If they United then we'd have two Targs united with an overwhelming military might. But now... They'll have to fight for the throne and we'll get a second Dance of the Dragons. So in a way Tyrion is playing the role of little finger one small conversion to start a massive Civil War.
Liza n Cat played with Pyters emotions when they were children n I believe that really stuck with him. Especially for cat to reject him as she did. I loved the way he betrayed both of them. Little mean girls. Playing with his little heart. He would have died for Cat!!!
Sansa isn't a Stark except in name. She's a she-trout. 100% Tulley. There was a reason Ned never shared secrets with his wife. Sansa proved with Jon how trustworthy her word to her own family was. She knew it could have led to Danerys killing Jon, but as long as it benefited her she didn't care.
I love that you addressed the part about Tyrion telling her he never bets against his family, I haven't had the chance to read any of the books yet unfortunately, but I am a huge fan of the show. And it always bothered me that noone thought that was suspicious that Tyrion bet against Jaime? I mean anyone who knows Tyrion the slightest bit knows Jaime is the only person really respects, and he loves him. I mean just knowing Tyrion the slightest bit u are gonna know he would NEVER. Bet against Jaime, ESPECIALLY in a fight
@@sabrinakrisb4672 ughh. I know, I really just haven't had the time from work, but now with another shut down I lost alot of my shifts, so now I have some time to start the books. Only good thing that came out of the shut down lol
@@sabrinakrisb4672 Honestly, that would probably be a much better idea, when ever I read, I legit have to reread paragraphs like 10 times and still won't remember what I read. I have horrible comprehension skills when it comes to reading
@@beemcc4148 Yeah me too, actually. These books are the first thing I've read for fun in years. I have concentration and memory issues. But they're really so worth reading, GRRM is a genius. Best fantasy books written since Tolkein, imo. Tyrion is one of the coolest fantasy characters of all time.
Catelyn is horrible person to me. Yes great character but she forgets she has 5 kids and what kind of mom does that. Tyrion did get out smarted by her but he needed to learn that lesson about her and not to underestimate women so much.
I believe all of the answers to your “why” Catelyn questions are because she has been in the honorable North too long. All of us give great advice and can see things clearer from an outside perspective.
Actually to consider that Cately shouldn’t have trust Littlefinger I think is a view a bit influenced by the show, because in the show is more obvious that Littlefinger is a shady person. But I saw George talking about the difference between the Littlefinger from the books vs the show, and he said they are very different, and that the Littlefinger from the books really is a person people actually trust, that he is so “nice” and “helpfull” that he really give the impression to people that he is harmless, and that this aspect of the character is not shown in the show. So I wonder that in general in image most people have of Littlefinger in the books and consider that Cately or Ned never should have trusted him is sort of influenced by the image of the show.
Hi Ladies! I believe the story of Petyr sleeping with Lysa but thinking it was Catelyn, is told by Lysa in a Sansa POV during A Storm of Swords. ‘I think’.
Dear me, I thought I'm so attentive a reader and 6+ re-reads would be enough to know it by heart, I still missed Catelyn's Vale-throat-slitting. O.O Thank you, both!
There is also parallels with tyrion & jon and aegon.I believe and tha contrast of there conversations.And directives another fkn awsome reread and breakdown Gray thnx for your time.
"Family, duty, honour". Maybe that's why Catelyn is so naïve when it comes to people like Lysa and Petyr, her sister and foster-brother. They're her family, so I guess that's why she trusts them blindly. She's smart enough to see that fault in Ned and his blind trust in King Robert, but when she's involved her personal feelings muddy her judgement.
You said that Tyrion basically sent Aegon to his death. I'm not so sure about it. Aegon wants one thing and one thing only: the iron throne. And they already discovered, that catching Daenerys isn't an easy task. So what should Aegon do? Run around in Essos, trying to find her and than beg her to marry him, just like her brother the beggar king? Going to Westeros is obviously dangerous, but if he manages to capture Storms End, Dragonstone and Kingslanding (ok that could be hard, but possible with some support) he is in a position of power. If he somehow conquers all of Westeros, Daenerys wouldn't accept the proposal, because than she wouldn't be queen (at least not in her, or the peoples eyes). But if he sits on the iron throne with an army and ask her to help him to win the war, they could be equal rulers. I think that's a good plan, or at least the best I can think of.
Aegon has an army and support from people in the mainland already. Vicerys had none of that. He absolutely is not a beggar. If he came to the her now he'd already be an equal. But if he goes alone he'd be seeking to conquer the land in his own name. Unless he publicly declares that he is intending to take the throne for BOTH of them a civil war is inevitable.
@@wisdommanari6701 I don't think so. The golden Army is 10k strong and Daenerys has 8k Unsullied. So their armies are about even and I think, that Daenerys thinks she can conquer Westeros on her own, if she wants. After all: she has dragons. Aegons ace is, that he has the better claim and therefore probably the better support from Westeros and that his aunt probably does not want to go to war against her own family. Obviously it is not an easy piece of diplomacy to sell Daenerys that they will be equals, even if he has already conquered the throne. So from his perspective I think, that listening to Tyrion was a good decision.
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How nice of you having guests like Lady J, I loved her!
Whenever Catelyn Tully played the game of Thrones people died
And she thought Jon would cause house stark to fall when it was actually herself
Well Cat, Ned, Rob and Cercie.
@@wisdommanari6701 but not Jon that's my point....
@@kingofkings3624 yes so far Jon has really been the best player among his family but his downfall was in not making his men understand his decisions and the bigger picture he was seeing.
@@joyboy_3165 for sure. I feel his decision to let the wildlings through was done alot smarter in the books cause he makes them man the castles and give up their weapons. However he legitly broke his vows by wanting to ride down to save fake arya
Loved this episode Lady J killed it!
I absolutely loved this guest!
Tyrion was written so brilliantly in the books but ruined in the final couple seasons of the show, love you ladies! #finishwindsofwinter
I think that the Stoneheart-in-Waiting, despite being able to observe well and even having a decent thought process, used to act on impulses and ponder consequences later, because she always got away with this course of action. In my opinion, the Red Wedding was a logical result of this habit.
Exactly. People seem to miss the fact that in the books she said that Jon couldn't stay in Winterfell with no thought for how that would affect anyone else and of course eunech Ned agrees 🙄. I suppose in the end she got what she wanted Jon dead ( he was the main cause of that though) but if she had shown him just abit of basic respect he would have followed Robb to the end of the world. Perhaps having a brother would have made a difference
Well what would have been Jon role in feudal system? It be hard or an insult to try and marry him off to another high lords daughter. You already have a ton of true born children to make matches for and what not. So yeah get rid of him.
@@wisdommanari6701 Ned could easily have set up so that he started his own branch of Starks. In terms of marrying, he went from being a son of the second most powerful men in the realm to the brother to a Northern King. Robb clearly kept him in very high regard as we know from that will of his. If they just tried they could have done something.
GA!!!
GG!!!
Hopefully you never stop getting something new out of ASOIAF! Reader response theory ftw 🤓😂
I know you only mentioned him breifly but I absolutely love Ser Dontos the Red. He was ride or die for Sansa after she saved his life, if and when Sansa finally gets rid of Petyr, I hope she does it in the name of Ser Dontos The Red.
Um... I think he did it for a bribe
Interesting how GRRM put a piece of modern Western European culture into this unreflected. These days we dont eat horsemeat as it is seen as inferior meat or eating a friend. In midevial times one did not eat horse as it was seen as pagan food, also a horse was an expensive acquisition, it was the last thing you would kill.
Tyrion’s horse was dying, so they butchered it for meat.Being the road they were on was treacherous, they didn’t have the luxury of easily hunting for food. I don’t think GRRM was intentionally reflecting modern WE culture rather, “desperate times call for desperate measures.”
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds I believe you are correct, without fact checking :) I tried to give a short answer. There are some archeological evidence of horses heads being burried etc. Eating horsemeat was illegal in France up til like 1850-something, there was a famine and it became legal. So I think your teacher was referencing "modern" days. To the Roman empire horse would then be "pagan" meat n it carried through into Christian times in for instance old England. Today it is mostly racehorses or old horses that go to slaughter, so the meat might be stringy? But sliced smoked horsemeat on a sandwich is gooood. Isn´t it very Ice&fire that horsemeat is seen both as very prescious and very dirty meat :) ..I should look this up!
Like 254 very nice ji
So by the end of the fifth book, Tyrion is literally betting against his family :)
Yes. George loves to take his character and break them, then see who they become typically the opposite of who they were in the beginning
Well he took out their leader and is now playing for the other team so yeah. He is taking it more as it isn’t his family anymore after the Tysha confession.
One other fact to point out about Tyrion’s disdain about the butchering of the horse is it wasn’t so much the idea of eating horseflesh that bothered him, but that it was HIS horse they were butchering. If you recall his instructions at Winterfell about training Bran’s horse, (starting training when the horse is a yearling, and specially training it to respond to the voice and reins) it’s pretty obvious that he had put in a great deal of time getting to know his horse through specialized training. Then, to watch them butchering it for meat had to be hard.
If I recall correctly, what happened was that after the dual with Brandon, when Petyr was recovering and heavily sedated with the milk of the poppy, Lysa snuck into his room and had sex with him which in his "fever dream" Petyr thought was Catelyn and not to mention Lysa ended up pregnant and that's the whole final regret of Hoster Tully thing and reason for marriage with much older Jon Arryn
Yep. It's in the books somewhere for sure just not sure what chapter.
@@natesmith2408 yeah I don't recall that either
Atanasia
I’m really upset about the ending as well because I used to love going back and watching the show from the begging and binge watching it but knowing what’s going to happen at the end and how bad it is I can’t do it anymore.
Yes, I agree. I sometimes watch little clips on RUclips. But a real re-watch? Never. I am waiting for another adaptation in 15 years or so ;)
@@Nash9r I've tried twice. 1-6 is still good. But both times I only made it a few minutes into season 7 before I shut it off and didn't go back. A few minutes!!!!
@@silversailer for me it declined already after season 4. Dornish plot is a disgrace.
Just stop watching after season 5/6
Tyrion is like a deconstruction of the outcasts being heroes trope.
Exactly
I LOVE GETTING THESE GRAY AREA NOTIFICATIONS HONEYYYYYY!!!!! Can’t wait to watch this. Happy Thanksgiving fellow North Americans, and more importantly happy Native American Heritage Month.
Thank you! Same to you!
"mOrE iMpOrTaNtLy" lawlz. The virtue signal is at maximum brightness.
@@natesmith2408 Calm down. 🙄
@@TheMorganVEVO lol right?
This was amazing, you have to bring this guest back!
Catelyn is the reason Sansa is so gullible... in all actuality Catelyn is Sansa with better luck
Yes, my child!
She... Was raised to believe in honor and chivalry and the decency of men... Like Ned.
I totally disagree Catelyn is far more savy and fierce than Sansa. Sansa is turning into a version of Catelyn that just understands the game much much better than her mother.
@@samtagg8754 catelyn is older but she is totally consumed by those same stories of the honorable knights and blah. Blah blah... that’s why she believes little with no hesitation also why she WANTs to believe “the imp” did it because there’s no Honor in cripples bastards and broken things. This is the same was Sansa sees the world
That's not even slightly true she believed the imp did it because her childhood friend told her so. She seriously underestimated the machinations of littlefinger but she's hardly alone there! She also instantly took to Brienne. She outsmarted Tyrion she had a deep level of intuition about the freys she was a staunch believer in the dire wolves. At the same time a lot of the downfall of house Stark can be at least partially attributed to her mistakes she coerced Ned to go down South she arrested Tyrion she trusted Littlefinger and Lysa. Sorry a rambling respondents Catelyn is an extremely complicated character who is both an intelligent strong human being and the catalyst for her families downfall.
I love the show but I've been reading the books and its fantastic reading his POVs and seeing him play the game of thrones the way Ned could never do. It's amazing to read.
Sansa is the worst character
How is she?
Really worst than Gregor?
What are you guys talking about. Sansa has had the most growth in the story. Yeah sure in the beginning she wasn't the best but that is because she believed her father new everything. The same thing we probably believed when we were her age. It is when her father dies she has to move on from that and live her life and make her own decisions.
She ain't just the worst character, shes the most boring along with her chapters in the books
@@bluewhale513 How are Sansa's chapters boring. Within her chapters we are given more information on king's landing and the north.
Great job, Lady J. You quickly got over those nerves! (Also, I felt famous being mentioned in this episode. My nerdy heart delights 🤓🤣🤣)
Cersei's outcast is Qyburn, though I wouldn't really call them "friends"
Jamie also betrayed Tyrion too in a since If you think about it.
Ain't no "in a since" he definitely did it 100%
Gray Area!!!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone let's have some fun.
I dunno she may not have had constant communication with her sister but her families words are family duty honor she. Like she has no reason to not trust her sister. I feel like a lot of this is hindsight and unfair. I've not really spoken to my sister in 3-4 ish years aside from the holiday text but I'd still trust her if I needed some serious help.
why would she trust Tyrion? He's a total stranger and a Lannister. These guys literally have a tribal/gangster mentality. Your last name/colors declare your loyalty and your allegiance. Peter is one of Jon Arryn vassals. He should be loyal to him and thus her sister and also to her. That makes sense in this world. It's why "turncloaks" are hated so much because if you are someone's vassal the assumption is that you ride or die for them. That's the point of the whole feudal system.
Yeah I love the Dornish... Does anyone dislike those chapters? I really enjoy Darkstar as well, but he is 120% innocent of the mutilation of Marcella.
Ah the Faegon thing. Yeah Tyrion divorcing the two Targ clauses is definitely going to get him killed. If they United then we'd have two Targs united with an overwhelming military might. But now... They'll have to fight for the throne and we'll get a second Dance of the Dragons. So in a way Tyrion is playing the role of little finger one small conversion to start a massive Civil War.
Liza n Cat played with Pyters emotions when they were children n I believe that really stuck with him. Especially for cat to reject him as she did. I loved the way he betrayed both of them. Little mean girls. Playing with his little heart. He would have died for Cat!!!
He almost did 😭
Gray Lady returns
The commentary is so good.
Yes! Another reason to procrastinate! Love ya Gray 💜 🐺
Happy Thanksgiving 🦃🍁🍽
Really awesome guest!! Loved her insight and depth in this!!!
Juice Time!!!
Sansa will be able to outwit people in the same way that Catelyn was able to outwit Tyrion !!!!
Sansa isn't a Stark except in name. She's a she-trout. 100% Tulley. There was a reason Ned never shared secrets with his wife. Sansa proved with Jon how trustworthy her word to her own family was. She knew it could have led to Danerys killing Jon, but as long as it benefited her she didn't care.
I would also say it is bad of Cat to say she was taking Tyrion to Winterfell b/c that could put Bran in danger
Not really, you have get past moat Caitlin and all of the the North. And the North IS HUGE
How?
I love that you addressed the part about Tyrion telling her he never bets against his family, I haven't had the chance to read any of the books yet unfortunately, but I am a huge fan of the show. And it always bothered me that noone thought that was suspicious that Tyrion bet against Jaime? I mean anyone who knows Tyrion the slightest bit knows Jaime is the only person really respects, and he loves him. I mean just knowing Tyrion the slightest bit u are gonna know he would NEVER. Bet against Jaime, ESPECIALLY in a fight
You gotta read the books dude, Tyrion is so much more complex and interesting in the books its great
@@sabrinakrisb4672 ughh. I know, I really just haven't had the time from work, but now with another shut down I lost alot of my shifts, so now I have some time to start the books. Only good thing that came out of the shut down lol
@@beemcc4148 I'm really busy too so I listen to the narrated audio books of it, you might enjoy that?
@@sabrinakrisb4672 Honestly, that would probably be a much better idea, when ever I read, I legit have to reread paragraphs like 10 times and still won't remember what I read. I have horrible comprehension skills when it comes to reading
@@beemcc4148 Yeah me too, actually. These books are the first thing I've read for fun in years. I have concentration and memory issues. But they're really so worth reading, GRRM is a genius. Best fantasy books written since Tolkein, imo. Tyrion is one of the coolest fantasy characters of all time.
Catelyn is horrible person to me. Yes great character but she forgets she has 5 kids and what kind of mom does that. Tyrion did get out smarted by her but he needed to learn that lesson about her and not to underestimate women so much.
Perfect timing, your soothing voice is needed right now. 💯
I believe all of the answers to your “why” Catelyn questions are because she has been in the honorable North too long. All of us give great advice and can see things clearer from an outside perspective.
100% agree, if you live a sheltered life you forget how grim the world can be
I totally have enjoyed Lady J in this podcast. Please work with her again. We need a teacher. Awesome job ladies.
16:30 remember that she wrote the letter in their childhood "language"
Cersei does it with Kyburn
Actually to consider that Cately shouldn’t have trust Littlefinger I think is a view a bit influenced by the show, because in the show is more obvious that Littlefinger is a shady person. But I saw George talking about the difference between the Littlefinger from the books vs the show, and he said they are very different, and that the Littlefinger from the books really is a person people actually trust, that he is so “nice” and “helpfull” that he really give the impression to people that he is harmless, and that this aspect of the character is not shown in the show. So I wonder that in general in image most people have of Littlefinger in the books and consider that Cately or Ned never should have trusted him is sort of influenced by the image of the show.
*Out smarted by a fish
Love this guest -- Gray will never fail us.
Hearing it in 2024 Grey haha loving the podcast. Catelyn sounded like Sansa when it comes to Little finger 😂
LF's face if Catelyn and Tyrion teamed up and went to KL together to tell everyone he lied about the dagger... ahhh... if only...
Hi Ladies! I believe the story of Petyr sleeping with Lysa but thinking it was Catelyn, is told by Lysa in a Sansa POV during A Storm of Swords. ‘I think’.
Cat reminds me of these book/ college smart individuals but are lacking inelegant thought/ commen sense.
Its Lysa who reveals that encounter with Little Finger where she act as Caitlyn.
In the end, with her death, Dany got what she wanted..to "break the wheel".
This guest was top tier, bring her back please
Just wondered if these will be podcasts too?
Both. Grr. He thought he was with cathryn but nyssa was for joy! He was drunk and kinda jumbled. He calls out cats name.
🦃🔥
✌
My fave podcast 🧃
So tyrion is stupid?
What a great video Gray! I love Tyrion's chapters!
Dear me, I thought I'm so attentive a reader and 6+ re-reads would be enough to know it by heart, I still missed Catelyn's Vale-throat-slitting. O.O Thank you, both!
Happy Thanksgiving, Lady Gray!!!
Boosting the algorhytm
I think the adjective you guys were searching for Cathleen is Hypocrite! 😁
They are not. She is a hypocrite
@@simron513 I said Cathleen is a hypocrite.
There is also parallels with tyrion & jon and aegon.I believe and tha contrast of there conversations.And directives another fkn awsome reread and breakdown Gray thnx for your time.
Good point
Love the obsidian nights :)
Happy Thanksgiving🦃
GRAY AREA
"Family, duty, honour". Maybe that's why Catelyn is so naïve when it comes to people like Lysa and Petyr, her sister and foster-brother. They're her family, so I guess that's why she trusts them blindly. She's smart enough to see that fault in Ned and his blind trust in King Robert, but when she's involved her personal feelings muddy her judgement.
Tyrion's toxic masculinity kicked in when he was out smarted by a woman. Lol, there's no way his pride would let him live that down
No such thing
@@everythingdivine 😂😂😂🤷🏾♂️
Mhh no
@@everythingdivine Says the wannabe edgelord gangster in the chat lol
You said that Tyrion basically sent Aegon to his death. I'm not so sure about it. Aegon wants one thing and one thing only: the iron throne. And they already discovered, that catching Daenerys isn't an easy task. So what should Aegon do? Run around in Essos, trying to find her and than beg her to marry him, just like her brother the beggar king? Going to Westeros is obviously dangerous, but if he manages to capture Storms End, Dragonstone and Kingslanding (ok that could be hard, but possible with some support) he is in a position of power. If he somehow conquers all of Westeros, Daenerys wouldn't accept the proposal, because than she wouldn't be queen (at least not in her, or the peoples eyes). But if he sits on the iron throne with an army and ask her to help him to win the war, they could be equal rulers.
I think that's a good plan, or at least the best I can think of.
Aegon has an army and support from people in the mainland already. Vicerys had none of that. He absolutely is not a beggar. If he came to the her now he'd already be an equal.
But if he goes alone he'd be seeking to conquer the land in his own name. Unless he publicly declares that he is intending to take the throne for BOTH of them a civil war is inevitable.
@@wisdommanari6701 I don't think so. The golden Army is 10k strong and Daenerys has 8k Unsullied. So their armies are about even and I think, that Daenerys thinks she can conquer Westeros on her own, if she wants. After all: she has dragons.
Aegons ace is, that he has the better claim and therefore probably the better support from Westeros and that his aunt probably does not want to go to war against her own family.
Obviously it is not an easy piece of diplomacy to sell Daenerys that they will be equals, even if he has already conquered the throne.
So from his perspective I think, that listening to Tyrion was a good decision.