Family, Duty, Honor | Catelyn Stark IV | A Game of Thrones | Obsidian Nights Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2020
- On this episode of the Obsidian Nights Podcast We are doingg a deep dive into Catelyn IV of A Game of Thrones! Thanks for Watching!
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Justin Thomas: • House of The Dragon Fi...
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Sources Used! ASOIAF Novels, GRRM's works HBO Series Game of Thrones, A **Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and A World of Ice and Fire, The Princess and The Queen (Dangerous Women) , The Rouge Prince (Rouges), The World of Ice and Fire App, Sons of the Dragon (Book of Swords)
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Развлечения
Catelyn: Only a fool would trust Littlefinger
Also Catelyn: Trusts Littlefinger
The thing about the knife story, little finger says Tyrion bet against Jaime. That was the red flag. Tyrion wouldn't bet against Jaime.
There's amazing foreshadowing of this
Love the observation about people thinking Sansa is more relatable compared to Daenerys. I’m like Gray and I find Daenerys more relatable but as I go through life I realise a lot of the women I meet are more like Sansa. They are the products of hundreds of years of patriarchy and have been told tales about how their docile nature will reward them and later often found that not to be the case, because the people setting the rules are toxic and the system that promises to look after them doesn’t. Some readers find Sansa uninspiring for her unwarranted romantic idealism, passiveness and inability to play the Game of Thrones - but that’s why George wrote her. Most women don’t get taught how the world works at an early age like men do, and it has consequences for them they don’t necessarily deserve.
I think Cat did a tremendous disservice to Sansa. Sansa was raised to be ignorant of politics, leaving her an easy target for any skilled manipulator. Sansa could tell who people were through heraldry, but Cat didn't seem to teach Sansa anything about determining the character of the person she was dealing with. Cat spent years learning politics at her father's side, before Edmure was old enough to take that place, why not tell Sansa those recollections to teach Sansa something about southern politics, since she was raised to be the wife of a high lord. Cat may make bad choices, but she often sees the political map pretty well. Cat should have been training Sansa in seeing the political map, instead of grooming her to be a useless ornament in her husband's great hall.
Sansa was a little ass sheltered kid what exactly could she teach her? Cat learned by seeing and hearing things around, there was nothing of interest going on in Winterfell so what exactly could Sansa observe?
@@rai2423 Cat could have told Sansa more about her own experience, she could have had Ned use her as cup bearer when Lord's came to Winterfell and told Sansa to pay attention to what is going on, then quized Sansa on what happened. Sansa was living in the home of the Warden of the North, there was plenty going on, if one looks beyond traveling singers, big tournaments, and fancy parties. Instead Cat treated Sansa like a porcelain doll that she would take off the shelf to do her hair and admire, then hand off to Septa Mordane who only taught Sansa needlework and manners.
The fact that Cat let Sansa go to Kings Landing without making sure she had a bit of political understanding and the skills to observe the situation and learn from it, is a total fail on Cat's part.
EXACTLY Gray! It’s like blaming the mistress while being fine with your husband! No sense made!
So I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute, and I don't know if anyone has brought this up in an earlier podcast, but I think another reason for Catelyn's behavior towards Jon is that for generations Westeros had a recurring problem in House Blackfyre, the decendants of Daemon Blackfyre, who was a Great Bastard of Aemon IV. Daemon was given the Targaryen family sword Blackfyre, was favored over his legitimate half-brother Daeron, and led many of his fellow Great Bastards against Daeron when their father died. While Aemon didn't survive his rebellion, two of his sons escaped and continued the bloodline. The Blackfyre Rebellions didn't stop until the last man of that line, Maelys the Monstrous, was killed by Sir Barristan in the War Of The Nine Penny King's. Barristan and Tywin, both old man by the time of ASOIAF, were both in their prime when this happened, so the Blackfyres were an ongoing problem until relatively recently.
Catlyn is the daughter of a Great House, she's been educated and would know about the Blackfyres. When she sees Jon Snow, a bastard, being indulged and treated like his legitimate siblings by his father, it's probably reminding her, even if unconsciously, of Aemon Blackfyre. If Jon were to one day decide to press his claim to Winterfell and the North, then the North could have it's own Blackfyre Rebellion on its hands. All Catlyn needed to really flip her shit was for Ned to give Jon Ice, the Stark family sword.
I bring this up briefly and I love how u have layed it out with more Depth and in world examples
And unfortunately, the current situation in the North about Robb's succeccion will cause a First Blackfyre Rebellion 2.0 since post-resurrection Jon will be a mix of Daeron II and BloodRaven while post-Skaagos Rickon will be a mix of Bittersteel and Daemon Blackfyre!
There's no honour in bullying a motherless child sorry Cat but your heart is made of stone
i like the play on words
This!!!
@@TopShelfFandomVids I'm hoping for a confrontation between lady stoneheart and Jon preferably when he's revealed to be a Targaryen but I doubt it'll happen for a whole bunch of reasons, fanfic makes it possible atleast
@@kingofkings3624 It is crazy that this is the first time I have ever considered Lady Stone heart and Jon meeting it seems so obvious I guess the Jaime confrontation has distracted me but i think ur so right we need that for so many reasons
@@TopShelfFandomVids not even for the whole Ned thing but simply because of the whole Lord of Light bringing them both back, however I don't believe she will be able to live the riverlands or the Vale but I've no proof of this. Just a case of wait and see as per usual lol
Thank you so much for taking about Bobby Baratheon and his toxic masculinity!! I cannot ever even like the man, I just choke!!
I've been quite vocal about Cat's problems being her own doing and how that impairs my ability to empathize with her, so I'll leave that be. What absolutely eliminates the possibility, perhaps beyond Cat manipulating Ned to go to King's Landing, is her parenting. Two things come to mind. First, that the one AND ONLY time Cat called Jon by his name was to tell him she wished he was dead. And that's after scheming to expel him from his own home to secure Robb's inheritance. The second thing that comes to mind is Arya questioning if Cat would want to ransom her because of her looks.
"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard." Robb wouldn't care about that, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa...
That Arya would even think this way paints a horrific picture of Catelyn as a person. Would Cersei's children question whether or not she would want them back under similar circumstances? Would Sweet Robin question if Lysa would want him back? The answer to both is a resounding NO. Yet for some reason, Cat's daughter does. That speaks volumes. In fact I think Cat tells Arya to her face that she's ugly, or says something to the effect of "you could be pretty if x, y, z...". Keeping in mind Arya is all of, what, 8 yrs old? Cat is a miserable excuse for a person who has zero qualms about bullying innocent children for things that aren't their fault or for not fitting her idea of "perfection". Apparently she also has zero qualms neglecting them, as evidenced by her abandonment of three year old Rickon after Bran's fall. But I digress. I cannot empathize with her. At all. Not even a little bit.
It should have been you - Cat (GOT, Jon II)
@@shannond7437 That moment disgusts me more than almost anything else in the series. Euron delighting in his recollection of raping Aeron and The Mountain raping the inn keep's daughter are about the only things that top it. Catelyn really is despicable.
That's true. There is definitely something wrong with her views and values. Cat is extremely superficial in many different things. The problem is that she doesn't question anything unless it isn't in her favour. So I would say she is selfish. I still think that she loves her children though. Otherwise she wouldn't have released Jaime and all of that. you can really feel her sorrow when her family members started dying. So there was definitely love there, so there is something which makes her human. Her mindset is still incredibly unhealthy. she always thinks she is right.
Catelyn started the war
Yasss! New Gray and I just got my pumpkin spice latte! A good Wednesday so far!
I’m obsessed with the pumpkin spice latte!!!
That is the whitest comment i've seen this week. Thank you for a good laugh😂🤗❤👌🏽
@@olio795 well I'm black and I love pumpkin spice lattes (shoulder shrug)
@@TheVmjohnson me too especially in fall but i am mixed so maybe it doesnt count but its just such a meme at this point that i had to comment😂👌🏽
To the people reading this: have a wonderful day/night and stay safe during these hard times 😷🧤🙏.
You, too 😊 !
u as well friend
We'll be right, mate 👍🏻
Thank you! Much love 💕
Thank you! I wish you the best as well, as I do everyone else in the community and comments!
Regarding the Sansa comment around 45:00, I feel like what people relate to in Sansa is that many of us have been in impossibly toxic situations they couldn't easily escape and learn to survive in more subtle and less overt ways. Sansa was docile but she of all the main POV characters had the least agency and power over her circumstances as well. She is learning to play the game, finally, and learning well with Petyr as her foil she will defeat. I am a strong and independent woman but I have been Sansa in a sense and I believe that she will rule in some form or fashion in the end (just not exactly as in the show). Also, I think, it is easy for fans to dislike Sansa as she doesn't fit into standard fantasy tropes--no magic due to Lady's death, not a fighter, and is playing the game of thrones in a distinctly feminine way. Culturally we often dislike overt femininity and thus people are turned off by Sansa from the get-go and never give her another chance and I think that is the bulk of most Sansa hate.
We dislike her because she is a classic mean girl to Arya, an outright snob to John, and a shitty sister and daughter. I don't see any of these as 'feminine' traits, at least I hope not. Either you're nice or mean to everyone, not just those you seem worthy.
Lori Garry Sansa is the epitome of feminine. Sansa is a stereotypical ‘fair maiden’ and she takes pride in that because she’s been told that is how a woman is supposed to be. Once she learns more about the world she realises that she was wrong for treating Jon and Arya like that and she realises that what she was taught isn’t reality.
Had such a great time recording this with Gray Thank u for having me back 🙏
Don't approve of her actions but I feel sorry for her. Having to marry a total stranger, be impregnated by him, and leave her home all against her will. And while she was a teenager no less. It's a lot. No wonder she has trouble making decisions. She certainly seems to have this reckless desire to prove herself. She did say she felt ashamed for how she acted when Bran was in a coma, maybe going to King's Landing was her way of redeeming herself?
Agree with you about how it was wrong of Ned to let the abuse go on.
I think Catelyns actions towards Jon are totally understandable, if not even justified and GrayArea judges first with a very 21st century perspective and second without through thinking this situation completely.
Catelyn doesn't have the option to project her hate and disappointment towards Ned, because she cannot leave him and she even will have to give him many more children. That's the purpose of this marriage, not love. So she projects her hatred towards that baby.
On top of that, Jon is a threat to her offspring. What if he ever gets legitimized? He is older than Rob after all. What if he will lead a Dornish army (Cate thinks he is a half Dayne, doesn't she?) to claim his birth right and fights against her son/sons?
And historically it happened a lot of times, that second wives assassinated the previous children of her husbands. The mother of Alexander the Great probably killed the half brother of him, to protect his claim to the throne.
So, although GrayArea is obviously right to say, that it is wrong for Catelyn to hate Jon for the actions of Ned, she (GrayArea) doesn't really see it in the feudal context.
Even if you think she is justified for hating 'the threat' how do explain purposely calling him back into Bran's room,calling him by his name for the first time, just to tell him she wishes he was dead? How does that honour her great love for Ned? And if are to believe the POV chapters it wasn't the first time she bullied him.
@@lorigarry371 So I think her hatred is "justified" or at least "human nature". And she lives with the symbol of Neds dishonorability and the threat for her offspring for over ten years in the same castle. And every time she sees him, she is reminded of that.
So obviously she behaves pretty shitty. All I wanted to say is, that her shitty behaviour is understandable and in context of time and situation just like a lot of mothers acted throughout history.
I guess her behaviour is also a bit of Neds fault. He is the patriarch overall and could've told her to stop bullying. But probably he wanted to shine as little light as possible on Jon and his relationship to him, to protect him.
Great video! For me I can almost forgive her for Jon. Almost lol. He was a threat to her son's claim. Imagine if Robert brought a bastard to court 😳🤣 the most unforgivable to me is her not listening to one single word from Ned asking to her to go home, call the banners and keep Theon close. She didn't warn Robb right away about Theon, allowing them to bond over winning battles, & still didn't think to mention it was NED'S WISH and wondered why he didn't listen 🤦🏼♀️
She overestimated her wits on many occasions and her family (& the entire realm) suffered dearly for it.
I don't even want to get started on her ignorance in dealing with Walder Frey 😤 I could bitch about Catelyn all day 😂
Only a Fool would trust Littlefinger funny because it was Stoneheart who told Ned to trust him I think just me but a lot of what happens to the Starks is her fault because of her great judgment including kidnapping the son of the most dangerous man in Westeros Robb campaign was doomed from the start thanks to his idiot mother
I agree. Even Jon said cat was to blame if his father was killed. I She frees Jamie, and caused major conflict. Robb should of sent her ass home before he went to war.
@@tashacrawford770 In particular, Robb shouldn't have left negotiations with the Freys to his mother. She literally wed away her son for something that was her family's right to demand as the Frey's liege lords, and she didn't even manage to obligate the Frey's armies or resources in that deal. Worst. Negotiator. Ever.
Tarvoc I agree. I think Robb should of told her to go home. He should of spoke with the Freys.
Hell I think all her decisions were awful.
Rai she gave awful advice. If she would of listen to Ned and went home Jamie would never of attacked Ned. Tywin wouldn’t of started this war.
Then she went and talked to Renly and Stannis like they were children. She let Jamie go.
Stop acting like Cat is a victim. She dug herself a grave, and her family’s as well.
@@rai2423 Bruh. How does Robb fucking up as well change anything about what I said? Also, what makes you think I dislike Catelyn?
We have to remember that Ned & Cat we’re not a love match. This was a forced political marriage during a time of war.
Nah, Green Grace is the Harpy if she's anyone. I haven't even heard or read of anyone pinning her as the Perfumed Seneschal. Interested to hear that theory.
I am getting more and more mixed feelings about Cat. Some days I like her on other days I hate her. But one thing is clear: I love her character. I think it was an interesting experience to be in her mind. Because she really is the Westerosi Karen full of cliches in her head and with being that narrow minded. And you can see why she is like that...
For the number of POVs it goes Tyrion, Jon, Arya, Dany, and Catelyn. Cat tells a good chunk of the books, even more than Bran so far who should be up there with the other four leads.
I think Catelyn, much like Ned, makes a lot of bad decisions that the reader can anticipate and certainly in retrospect make her look bad. But I think part of her character flaw is that she thinks she's a protagonist. Not in a meta sense, but in the sense that her narcissism leads her to underestimate others and especially others' potential to do her harm. In a sense to me she's a type of tragic character, so I forgive a lot of her attitudes and decisions. A good example is in the lead-up to the Red Wedding where her instincts tell her to fear Walder Frey but she underestimates Frey's capacity to entirely forego morality and tradition. She thinks Robb can protect himself by asking for food but at this point they're all doomed
I never really hated cat, but I also don't love her and I could never say why. I just reread book one and (because of your videos) I payed more attention to the details. I think what bothers me the most about Cat in general is she has this thing she does, I don't really know how to describe it (also english isn't my first language). It's her inner monologue that makes her look sort of arrogant from time to time. It's a specific kind of arrogance. It's all those times she is politely smiling on the outside but in her thoughts she is making comments on what the person in front of her is doing or just said. For example:
(Stannis) "...Still, I give you my word, you shall have justice for his murder."
(Cat, inner monologue) How they loved to promise heads, these men who would be king.
She might be right, but it's the way she says/thinks it. A combination of being a know-it-all and a dramaqueen. The only thing missing is the phrase "Oooh, my sweet summer child..."
Another example is when she is at the parley between Stannis and Renly and she says "Listen to yourselves! If you were sons of mine, I would bang your heads together and lock you in a bedchamber until you remembered that you were brothers." My eyes rolled so far back I swear I could see my own brain. Especially because I imagine she says it in a half-serious- half-laughing tone (like on the show) which makes it worse, and then I imagine Stannis and Renly looking at each other like unimpressed Chloe.
FFS these men are at war. This is serious! Don't act the annoying mom-friend.
It's like she's always in 'mother-knows-best-mode'.
English may not be your first language, though you explained that all *very* well. Totally agree with your assessment
I agree with you.
Thank you Gray for this series! I look forward to these so much!
Gray, I cannot tell you how much I truly enjoy your analysis to the text and your commentary. I am glad that you have the same vitriol that I have for Mrs. Stark. I do have to agree that Catelyn's chapter really tells the story of the Starks and the Tullys. Both families are filled with Honor and Truth but they seem to bend them for their own purposes fairly often. Catelyn is a screwd, calculating, manipulator much in the way that Cersei is but she seems blind to their parallels. Catelyn is more worry about her ambition than she is her children, her husband, or her own safety. I find her to be a fascinating character who uses her "courtesies" for the advancement of her family.
Just what I needed to start my day! Thank for the juice gray!!!❤️
In our society, hating or judging somebody on an hardware issue, ie: something they have no control over is considered morally wrong but in Westeros it is the norm. Just look at how Tyrion is treated. Bastards are another vilified persons, they are considered untrustworthy by nature.
In comparison to Jon you have Ramsay Bolton who in every way lives up to the general prejudices against bastards (killing the true borns being the ultimate sin). Cat like Sansa see's the title before the content of character, her toxic femininity will only let her see rival in Jon to her own children and not the actual guy who quite clearly loves his half siblings. I'm not excusing how she acts at all but I try to understand her motives by this different mindset.
“Toxic femininity” 🤣🤣 I’m gonna steal that one from now on
With the exception of the risky move with ownership of the dagger, Bailish played Catelyn beatifully with having a talk with her in the presence of Varis: he showed her "whom not to trust", and she was left with no choice but to trust Littlefinger, whom she would naturally mistrust... He played the contrast...
This gives me another reason to hate Cat’s stupid behind. Gurl. 🤦🏾♀️
This is so thought provoking. Thanks y’all ☺️
On the show, Littlefinger is obvious, but in the books, everyone likes and trusts him.
Not just another GREAT Obsidian episode but Handsdown my Favorite Co-Star that I hadn't heard of. Definitely gonna look up his channel.
As always Thanks for bringing the Juice Gray!
GRAY AREA!!!
Awesome video gray as always best part of Wednesday.
My favorite part of Wednesday Morning.
Thank you for the content!
You ma'am are absolutely spot on!
One reason I despise Catelyn is because of how evil she is towards Jon, an innocent blameless victim, but if must be nasty to someone then yes, it should be to Ned. Another reason is because of how quick she was to abandon her 3yr old toddler & 7 yr old who's still in a coma. When Ned & the girls left to KL she said that in her heart, she let go of her girls. WTF! I can never let go of my children,, in my heart, regardless of age or distance. She didn't even bother to be present for their departure. Then immediately she neglected Robb & Rickon, choosing to remain next to Bran & thus be useless.
She's the reason Ned went to KL & she's the reason so many died.
That woman is a horrible wife, mother & especially stepmother!
Love your podcasts Gray Area 😉
Loving the idea of something makes me think of Lisa Tuttle
I agree with you Grey Area. I’ve hated Cat since I read the books and then watched the show. How she can treat John the way she does is beyond me. I’ve had a boyfriend have a child outside of the relationship and never treated the child any different. You can’t blame kids for the actions of adults!!
I also find it very hard to believe that Varis did not know who won the dagger from whom, and it was entirely too risky on Bailish's part to assume that he could claim it was Tyrion's in Varis's presence. Of course you have to have a reasoning ability of Catelyn Stark-Tully to imagine that a person who has to travel back through Winterfell will plan an attack on a sick child of the family who holds it...
It is not just that she could not leave - the question is with her phenomenal insecurity: Jon posed no danger to Robb as far as inheritance was concerned, so why was she so threatened?
Actually, naming streets after what was done there was pretty common in medieval Europe, so that doesn't even have to do something with this book connection
Juice time!!!
Yay!
Gray Lady returns
the only juice I allow in my diet, and good fkn thing cause it’s the only kind I couldn’t bear to give up 😭😭
Lady Gray BACK with tha JUUUUICCCCE!
I think it is not as much that Bailish became a different person, but theat Catelyn too easily dismisses those she view as being "below" her. The most important piece of information about the duel is that Littlefinger refused to yield. At the time he actually showed himself to be the bravest person in Seven Kingdoms: facing The Wild Wolf in single combat at the age of 15, refusing to give up. Of course he was (and still is) convinced that Catelyn gave him her virginity, so he is naturally confused by her refusing to answer his letters. Catelyn is generally pretty awful in judging how people would react to what she does or says, for example, what result did she expect after calling both Stannis and Renly "squabbling little boys" when one had all signs of of newly converted religious zealot (with a fully functioning witch by his side) and the other had couple of hundred thousand warriors behind him? And the famous "Knights of the Summer" speech is a hight of insensitivity to the audience, which even Brienne, not the greatest of intellectuals was able to point out. The Red Wedding tragedy was also something which could be largely laid at her feet - she was repeatedly asked to attend to the Frey marriage, but she found numerous excuses to stay close to the seat of power... I better stop, because I am not the greatest of Catelyn's fans :)
I couldn’t click fast enough!!! Thank you for the juice 🧃... I always look forward to ANYTHING you put out😃 Thank You @GreyArea
Cat is just like her little brother Edmund, where they are all about family duty honor but don't know how to stay in line. When they take matters into their own hands with a bold action, it always seems to complicate things more than needed. Clumsy all of them and her sister is just plain mad. Lysa is the crazy overdramatic Karen
Lady Gray, it's a gold dragon and a silver stag when it comes 2 money in Westeros! She gave each Oarsman a silver stag each.
*happily sips juice* 🥤
Those who claim to be concerned the most with "the good of the realm" historically spill the most amount of blood. Just ask Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Pol Pot...
And most governments today!
So Varys is Hitler?
@@AdaptiveApeHybrid If Hitler were a merman
@@AdaptiveApeHybrid I think he could be worse. He could be Lenin
@@EPYHDA1 I think Stalin and Hitler were both worse than Lenin but that's besides the point I'm trying to make.
Varys is not like any of those people lol
to me what she was about to ask Petyr was "does he know we have a past together ?" or something like that.
Preach! Sansa is the epitome of the opposite of toxic masculinity! She expected the full Disney fairytale!
J Lord Wow you are really pouring out ignorance! Impressive volume in one short comment!
J Lord Did you even watch the video? Or read the actual book Game of Thrones?
J Lord That was what they said in the video, and it’s true, but that wasn’t my point. My point was Sansa is the exact opposite. She dreams (and toxically expects with Joffrey) to live the Disney fairytale.
If you are looking to argue politics & politically correct go elsewhere, I stand by my point.
J Lord I’m not offended, I am just not here to argue. I think my original comment is obvious. Unless George has done some trickery that I missed! And I am the first to admit that this is possible!
The top 3 POVs in order are Tyrion, Jon, and Arya. I can't remember who is number 4 but I think it's Dany. And while Arya has more POV chapters, in word count Dany slightly exceeds Arya's word count by a couple thousand words I think. However Arya is the only POV character to have POV chapters in every single book. :)
I always wondered why that sorcerer chose Varys 4 the magic?? Ahhh Kingsblood.
G A !!!!!!!
King of Queens, the whipping boy for all bad sitcoms. 😂😂😂😂😂
"Nodody is a huge fan of catlyn"
I know that I am an exception
You don't have to rub it in
I thinks its awesome u like her she has a empathetic perspective and you are able to step outside urself and see that , A Stories one job is to make us empathize not sympathize or support u understand why she does what she does u don't have to love it but I think she has many virtues
I like her too. There are dozens of us! Dozens! (Shit, I even signed up to do Catelyn 7 on this podcast hahahaha!)
@@ultraviolence6136 A Bold Choice I respect that and look forward to it
idk but i always felt bad for littlefinger when he lived with the tullys, he seems so innocent back then and all he wanted was cat's love
Faegon is for sure a black fyre, i go back and forth with varys but what convinces me is that the person who bought him used his balls for magic you know kings blood from his targ roots
smhhhh if ppl out here saying SANSA is the most realistic character?! if that’s true then we’re all fucked wow
Love the video. But when will you do another videos on Lovecraft again????
It will be out soon! I recorded one and thought it was basic, the new one. It’s pretty big because I went back to pull out all the Easter eggs and included book stuff!
Wow. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I will be looking forward to those Easter Eggsssssssss. Lol
My proof that Varys has king's blood is his story that someone chopped his manhood to look into the flames and summoned a voice
Is it sad that daily I get on RUclips just to check and see if lady Gray & LML have dropped a new video? Then dip when they don’t 😂
See video from Grayarea ; like before watching !!!
What is the book you mention in the video is based on the game of thrones??
amzn.to/34AfGTz
I loathe that woman!!! Mostly because I feel in love with Ned... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🥲😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭.
It is great to hear you again Sweet summer mama!!!!
She lost her husband and all of her children--is that not a price she paid?
You sound SO much better, when you don’t speak in cadences. Good work!
From everything i kno of little finger via what hes taught sansa i guarantee he and varys are friends
Hey GA❤️
Sorry, but Catelyn paid for her crimes.
She thought that Bran, Rickon and Arya were dead and she saw Robb die.
MJ and Justin = “JuiceDom” 😃🧃🧃🧃🍿
Vickon plus Justin eqauls a happy Justin !! Thank u for ur support
@@TopShelfFandomVids Hell yeah buddy!
Drogo knew miri wasnt ish.... shoot everybody there knew not to trust her except dany
Sometimes I really question myself, do people really know about westerosi politics , history and how power dynamics work in the Westeros?
I don't think that catelyn deep resentment for jon is that hard to understand.. And we know that's its deep because she did try to love jon as a son... even praying to the gods and saying that she would love him when he was sick.... i know she prayed for him to get sick.. but that in itself shows the inner turmoil she felt towards him.. she knew he was just a child, but he was the living embodiment of neds betrayal.. i guess it was easier to forgive ned for one laps in judgement when he was off at war.. she's knows how this world works.. but every time she sees jon she's reminded of that.. and that must eat away at a person... and to add insult to injury he looks more like a stark than any of her children... she sees him as a threat to her children. we're going to see that in action possibly if the north rallies around him, its what she feared might happen i guess.. for different reasons granted.. because as we know bastards of noble houses in westeros can turn up to bite you... obviously we like jon and cant believe shes so cold and horrible to the poor lad... but i can understand her mind.. i mean we've lived in her mind for chapters... shes just another great complicated character in this story.... i know you guys weren't saying anything different... i just wanted to join in ha..
People don’t like catelyn because of jon otherwise she is a decent caracter with a great pov
Catelyne C U next tuesday
Catelyn doesn’t trust Ned. Point blank period. Last time he left he came back with a baby she’s loathed for years. 1st excuse she had to go to Ned, she took it. Her children be damned.
Karen of Westeros? Stop, please. Her chapters are unreal.
Catelyn is a bit like a grandparent who keeps treating the grandkids who live far away as if they're the same age as they last saw them. Hasn't seen them age, so hasn't updated the mental model of them. I reckon Cat underestimates LittleFinger because she can't wrap her head around how much he's changed. Mental models operate on autopilot and it takes time &/or effort to change them. She knew his adult self was dodgy, put her teenager picture of him kept over-riding it and you don't get many chances to turn your back on him without getting stabbed in it. Too slow on the update, Cat.
Having help is wrong?
[Spoilers]
When will you do the chapter where Dani burns everyone and John stabs her and bran becomes king after Arya shanks the night king?
I don’t understand the hate for Cat. She’s a mother desperately trying to stay between her children and every conceivable threat. And she fails, a lot. She reminds me of my mom.
Mmm it's nice to start my morning with some juice
Catelyn, should have married him!
TO BE FAIR TO DROGO HERE HEIDHFH
In the Dothraki religion they hate and are very distrustful to Maegi. And blood Magic so it’s understandable why he didn’t listen to her lmao
You do realize that the oar man where slaves
✌
Some morning juice!!!
Ahem. I’m sorry idgaf about what her situation is. You don’t throw your frustrations on an innocent kid. Sorry not sorry
You lost me the second you said “toxic masculinity”