Shimano spdl yellow (6 degree). For those of us who can remember nailing an aluminum cleat to our leather-soled cycling shoes, modern pedals and cleats are a revolutionary improvement!
Look Keo Zero Float. I have my cleat position nailed on and is comfortable. I also don't have much outward flex in my legs to unclip with float Setting up my feet more inward isn't possible as the movement gives me crank rub.
I had a bike fitting with Jake 3 weeks ago, he slightly changed the position on my cleats and riding my bike since has been just pure comfort. I can’t wait to return in 4 weeks to collect my new bike and have the final tweak. I would recommend a fitting with Jake. Top man
I had two bikes fitted with Jake and I have to confirm that he is absolutely brilliant! Loved the fact that he really takes his time getting to know the rider, the anatomy, the habits, injury history, everything “around” the actual process which I found really useful; and found out things about myself I did not know! Great to see you brought him in to talk about cleat positioning, definitely helped me
I use a few different cleats, mostly MTB style so I can walk on my shoes, but not always. I've been using clipless pedals since 1994, but for some reason last year i started getting brutal knee pain. I solved this by accident one day when I was riding my commuter bike with flat pedals. I noticed that I was riding with my toes out and a fairly extreme angle, all my cleats were set up to have my feet parallel. I adjusted all my cleats to the most extreme toe out angle I could get then tried them out. One pair of shoes needed a slight adjustment but otherwise, problem solved.
I use SPD-SL 6 deg float. On the cleat there is a tiny notch on the side. This lines up with the pedal axle. it should also line up with the Metatarsel Head of the second Metatarsel.
I feel like a starting point is cleats all the way back on the shoe. I do make an assumption that the drillings and such are equal, and when I measure from the heel forwards, the numbers are right. Then I move equally from there.
Thanks for this! Just installed blue cleets instead of yellow and thought it felt different. Had no clue it was actually a difference on the cleets. I thought it was just another colour for fun 😅
If I might remind GCN, you had a hack over a year past. Using 2 florist block, you step on it with your old shoes, creating a mold. Now you can take your new shoes and set them into the blocks and duplicate the same cleat positions.
I’ve tried setting it up this way countless times as described, but I always end up going back to the old setup. Positioning the pedal axle under the ball of my foot works much better for me. When I follow the standard recommendations, everything feels unstable and unbalanced.
Back in the ancient toe clip age. The cleats were nailed to the shoe. To find the correct cleat positions, you would ride without the cleat on the shoe for a number of miles. The pedal cage would leave a mark on the sole of the shoe from your natural pedaling foot position. The cleat could then be fixed to the shoe referencing your natural pedaling action. No float possible or needed!
I have found the easiest way to set them is to line your toe up with in 1mm of the edge of your front mudguard when the wheel is turned, so when weaving through stationary traffic you dont rip your mudguards off with the toe overlap
Toe overlap is never a good thing, ideally bikes should be designed so that toe overlap is almost impossible, If you are looking to push the miles outside of the city you may find that the best position for you still has toe overlap. 😬
Look Delta kleats. I have two pairs of old Dura Ace "Look Patent" pedals, PD-7401 and can't remember the other one. Best pedals I've owned so far. I have a pair of Look Keo Blade Carbons, but the axle snapped (the threads are plastic, I would advice against them if you're a more powerful rider) and I never really liked them, really hard to clip onto.
When you say "foot discomfort" are we talking on the bike or is this something that can translate to off the bike? When I first went clipless I get quite a bit of foot pain off the bike but my feet feel great when on the bike. I do however get a bit of left knee pain after 10-12 miles or so of pedaling.
I have the best luck with Sidi and Speedplay over the years.. Idea: after the TDF of course, would it be possible for you guys and girl (Manon) to do a bike shootout of the top 10 pro bikes to see which one is actually # 1 - # 10 ?? Your GCN opinions are important, I think... GODSPEED Folks...
I have size 50EU feet so its difficult to find shoes that fit. Plus I ride with SPD cleats which gives me hot feet at the ball of the foot. I had my cleats moved back to the arch position of my foot and no more numbness. Wish shoe manufacturers would offer arch cleat mounting points as an option when shopping for shoes instead of having someone drill and place new mounts in the arch of the shoe.
@@gcn none of the LBS have shoes my size...had to resort to wearing Nasbar cycle sandals....bought online and sent to a shop in Florida where new SPD mounts were installed then sent back to me.
Do you guys have a video on how much arch support you should have in your shoes? I got pretty flat feet and the current arch in my shoe is a killer on my feet
Arch support is probably the most important thing besides the shoe itself. Your feet should not move inside the shoe so the arch should keep your foot in place, you should feel it when you put your foot in the shoe, but not to the extent that it hurts.
Jake and Alex - Great use of the tape markers to create a visual reference point on the shoes. But the echo from the hardwood floor did affect the audio quality. ☹️
Just bought some spd pedals and shoes last weekend had my first ride last night. Will check out my positioning with the metatarsals today. Looks as if there are more points of adjustment with SPD -SL than SPD?
I have two pair of shoes yet the cleats are mounted in very different positions. On one pair the cleat setback is roughly 1cm whereas on the other pair its more like 3 in order to avoid numb feet. Any thoughts?
@GCNtech: What adjustment should I consider to cleat position when after ~40 miles of riding the toes in both feet begin to go numb and become painful? Thank you.
Thanks for the video. I use Look delta setup with red cleats( 9 degrees float). I find it extremely difficult rotating my heal out to unclip. Rotating in towards the bike frame no problem. Is that normal or do I need to change something? Thanks!
What am I missing???? When I had my cleats fitted the bike shop had me pedal a stationary bicycle for over an hour while two guide rods were attached perpendicular to my shoe and cleat and the key was the cleats were properly aligned when the perpendicular rods were matching.
Might indeed be the fit, if it’s the sides of the knee it’s not angled right or fixed sideways, if it’s the front of your knee or hamstrings, consider moving the cleat forwards/backwards. (No float is usually a bad idea)
To all those intrested I have tried 3 different pairs of shoes and 3 types of pedal. I measured at 10.5 so I originally bought size 10 then size 11 now size 12 to account for my boney feet. Started without clips had no pain moved to spd first ride got pain. Eventually tried different shoes didn't fix it tried look pedals didn't fix it tried new shoes again didn't fix it now I currently have ultegra pedals with size 12 and that's the least pain I get. Very little umpess over 35 miles then agony again. As for the bike fit I have tried 3 different bikes changing through upgrading and the first one was l with the normal pedals no pain managed 43 miles took it more seriously and got spd pain started there. Changed bike but it was m and I need l so I recently got an l. That's my whole story any ideas are welcome but don't go thinking I didn't try everything obvious. And I did kind of get a bike fit when I paid for my feet to be fitted with the cleat position l. The guy was just nice and went over what was agreed adjusting my whole bike.
I've never had any joint pain regarding my cleat alignment, but I do have intermittent issues with numbness in my toes. I have 2 pairs of riding shoes and it's much worse when using a specific pair. Unfortunately it's the pair I like more and paid through the nose for. Personally, I think it's because the shoes are too narrow (seems to be prominent with cycling shoes) and this causes my toes to be squished together and cuts off circulation.
Lots of cycling shoes can be very narrow! Spending more doesn't always mean it is the better option for you. Perhaps look at what you like about the other shoes and look for that in your next pair. 🙌
A lot of talk about anatomy. Sadly it’s Jake’s anatomy which takes centre stage in those shorts and seating position! Consider recording behind a desk next time. Still, good tips, I have discomfort in my left foot with spd cleats.
Yes, that is how I was trained to fit a shoe. There are actually 5 adjustments for your cleat - left/right, front/back, pointing angle, height (if one leg is shorter that the other, add a shim to the shorter), and angle to the floor (check the heel of your regular shoes, if it worn in one corner, add an angled shim to your cleat). Your starting point is your normal, relaxed standing foot position (I have a wide stance, toes pointed out, and feet rocked out). You want to match that position on the bike with cleat position. Your feet, knees and hips will thank you!
@@richardsiptrott7286 Thanks that's super helpful. Unfortunately, my cleats don't go back far enough to be in line with the ball of my pinky, but I did adjust them all the way back and then roughly angled them. Im texted to route out the channel to go farther back, but I would need to see if my shoe allows for.
@@danieltull3622 I’d try the cleats as far back as they will go first. That might be comfortable for you. As long as the center of the spindle is between the ball of your big toe and the ball of your pinky toe, your less likely to encourage Achilles tendon or foot arch issues, especially combined with making the other adjustments. Try it for two weeks or 100 miles to let your body adjust to it, then reassess.
It depends. Some bike fitters say stagger the cleats, others say to use a shim, but the amount of stagger or shim isn't necessarily the same amount as the difference. In other words, you don't necessary need a 1cm shim or 1cm stagger between shoes.
I bought a 3 spoke Eurobike 2 years ago - good looking but a heavy bike.....one word of *very important advice* the cable operated discs are good _to start with_ but will fade badly within a year no matter how you adjust them....get cable operated _hydraulic_ disc brakes fitted.....I rode down Cheddar Gorge last year with faded brakes and it was frightening.....the Hydraulic units work wonders - not as good as full hydraulic of course but far better than the cable operated discs on the Eurobike.
I appreciate your videos and they are always spot on. But what you don't realise is that the bike shops of us mere mortals don't give us the attention you recommend. You don't know how frustrating it can be to look for a bike shop that will help us. Unless we buy a new bike. And our spending power is not that of a Pinarello. We are left alone in the sea of DIY.
Well i though it was gonna be a comparison between foot positions But nope its bearly even that… There is a reason your foot naturally puts your foots center around the pedals pivot point But everyone is still stuffing the damn things at the front and putting straign on your calves unnecessarily Even if your the type that pulls your legs up and pushes down the position is still wrong The only reason its where it is… is so you can unclip easier that is it Performance and comfort given up for u clipping easier…
@@SirBrass watch bike fit James on Francis Cades channel if you want the full run down. This comes from a bike fitter who used to be Sigma Sports lead fitter before opening his own shop which people from all over the world go to
What type of cleats do you use? 🚴
shimano yellow cleats on spd-sl
Shimano spdl yellow (6 degree). For those of us who can remember nailing an aluminum cleat to our leather-soled cycling shoes, modern pedals and cleats are a revolutionary improvement!
Regular SPD across road & mountain bikes; also used in my gym's spin studio.
Look Keo Zero Float. I have my cleat position nailed on and is comfortable. I also don't have much outward flex in my legs to unclip with float Setting up my feet more inward isn't possible as the movement gives me crank rub.
Spd,
sl
I had a bike fitting with Jake 3 weeks ago, he slightly changed the position on my cleats and riding my bike since has been just pure comfort. I can’t wait to return in 4 weeks to collect my new bike and have the final tweak. I would recommend a fitting with Jake. Top man
Whoop whoop! Love to hear it 🙌 We hope you find new lease in life with your new set-up!
@@gcn does Cleat position anything to do if ankle striking the crank arm?
I went to 4 mm + Shimano pdl and now my knees hurt. I went to 4 mm+ because i was hittng the frame sometimes with my size 14 shoes.
I had two bikes fitted with Jake and I have to confirm that he is absolutely brilliant! Loved the fact that he really takes his time getting to know the rider, the anatomy, the habits, injury history, everything “around” the actual process which I found really useful; and found out things about myself I did not know! Great to see you brought him in to talk about cleat positioning, definitely helped me
I use a few different cleats, mostly MTB style so I can walk on my shoes, but not always. I've been using clipless pedals since 1994, but for some reason last year i started getting brutal knee pain. I solved this by accident one day when I was riding my commuter bike with flat pedals. I noticed that I was riding with my toes out and a fairly extreme angle, all my cleats were set up to have my feet parallel. I adjusted all my cleats to the most extreme toe out angle I could get then tried them out. One pair of shoes needed a slight adjustment but otherwise, problem solved.
Great video, after a 18 months of using SPDs after flats. I've adjusted them and now feel like I'm getting the power output and am efficient.
Love videos with Jake! It seems like you could literally point to any sore muscle or tendon and he could give you an entire TED talk on the cause 😂
He's a fountain of knowledge 🙌 We always learn something new
I use SPD-SL 6 deg float.
On the cleat there is a tiny notch on the side. This lines up with the pedal axle. it should also line up with the Metatarsel Head of the second Metatarsel.
My first GCN video was Manon explains cleats positions late 2020 ❤
I feel like a starting point is cleats all the way back on the shoe. I do make an assumption that the drillings and such are equal, and when I measure from the heel forwards, the numbers are right. Then I move equally from there.
Thanks for this! Just installed blue cleets instead of yellow and thought it felt different. Had no clue it was actually a difference on the cleets. I thought it was just another colour for fun 😅
If I might remind GCN, you had a hack over a year past. Using 2 florist block, you step on it with your old shoes, creating a mold. Now you can take your new shoes and set them into the blocks and duplicate the same cleat positions.
A classic hack! 🙌 Did you ever give this a try?
I keep it in mind. I haven't had a chance to yet.
I’ve tried setting it up this way countless times as described, but I always end up going back to the old setup. Positioning the pedal axle under the ball of my foot works much better for me. When I follow the standard recommendations, everything feels unstable and unbalanced.
Hold my coffee. Gotta go fix my cleats. Thanks guys!
Take the coffee with you! Make it an event 😂
All the way back, all the way inboard. Never failed me as a solid starting point.
Back in the ancient toe clip age. The cleats were nailed to the shoe. To find the correct cleat positions, you would ride without the cleat on the shoe for a number of miles. The pedal cage would leave a mark on the sole of the shoe from your natural pedaling foot position. The cleat could then be fixed to the shoe referencing your natural pedaling action. No float possible or needed!
That’s what I remember!
I have found the easiest way to set them is to line your toe up with in 1mm of the edge of your front mudguard when the wheel is turned, so when weaving through stationary traffic you dont rip your mudguards off with the toe overlap
Toe overlap is never a good thing, ideally bikes should be designed so that toe overlap is almost impossible, If you are looking to push the miles outside of the city you may find that the best position for you still has toe overlap. 😬
My cleats always go as far back as possible these days, I avoid some shoe brands that seem stuck in the outdated forward position for the cleat holes.
How do you think the rear cleat position has made an impact on your cycling? 👀
What brand of shoes don you recommend? How is fizik?
Please any tips on proper tightening lube and mounting. Thank You!
Look Delta kleats. I have two pairs of old Dura Ace "Look Patent" pedals, PD-7401 and can't remember the other one. Best pedals I've owned so far. I have a pair of Look Keo Blade Carbons, but the axle snapped (the threads are plastic, I would advice against them if you're a more powerful rider) and I never really liked them, really hard to clip onto.
When you say "foot discomfort" are we talking on the bike or is this something that can translate to off the bike? When I first went clipless I get quite a bit of foot pain off the bike but my feet feel great when on the bike. I do however get a bit of left knee pain after 10-12 miles or so of pedaling.
I have the best luck with Sidi and Speedplay over the years..
Idea: after the TDF of course, would it be possible for you guys and girl (Manon) to do a bike shootout of the top 10 pro bikes to see which one is actually # 1 - # 10 ??
Your GCN opinions are important, I think...
GODSPEED Folks...
I have size 50EU feet so its difficult to find shoes that fit. Plus I ride with SPD cleats which gives me hot feet at the ball of the foot. I had my cleats moved back to the arch position of my foot and no more numbness. Wish shoe manufacturers would offer arch cleat mounting points as an option when shopping for shoes instead of having someone drill and place new mounts in the arch of the shoe.
Have you looked into getting a shoe fit? This might be the best option if you are looking to resolve a specific issue.
@@gcn none of the LBS have shoes my size...had to resort to wearing Nasbar cycle sandals....bought online and sent to a shop in Florida where new SPD mounts were installed then sent back to me.
@@stevemullin1195 wow ! THATS wild 😅
Do you guys have a video on how much arch support you should have in your shoes? I got pretty flat feet and the current arch in my shoe is a killer on my feet
Arch support is probably the most important thing besides the shoe itself. Your feet should not move inside the shoe so the arch should keep your foot in place, you should feel it when you put your foot in the shoe, but not to the extent that it hurts.
Jake and Alex - Great use of the tape markers to create a visual reference point on the shoes. But the echo from the hardwood floor did affect the audio quality. ☹️
Just bought some spd pedals and shoes last weekend had my first ride last night. Will check out my positioning with the metatarsals today. Looks as if there are more points of adjustment with SPD -SL than SPD?
Good advice, 5th metatarsal also works for me
I have two pair of shoes yet the cleats are mounted in very different positions. On one pair the cleat setback is roughly 1cm whereas on the other pair its more like 3 in order to avoid numb feet. Any thoughts?
Search for mid-foot cycling cleats and you can get base plates that allow for further rear cleats.
Look delta cleats, have a memory cleat that is left on the shoe so you don't loose your cleat position.
That's only if the shoe has a fourth hole to have that chip bolted to it.
@@sbccbc7471 yes, only if your shoes have the forth hole to secure memory cleat.
Is the northwave core plus 2 a decent beginner shoe?
All the way to the back , done
@GCNtech: What adjustment should I consider to cleat position when after ~40 miles of riding the toes in both feet begin to go numb and become painful? Thank you.
Thanks for the video. I use Look delta setup with red cleats( 9 degrees float). I find it extremely difficult rotating my heal out to unclip. Rotating in towards the bike frame no problem. Is that normal or do I need to change something? Thanks!
Maybe the "neutral cleat position" has your heel pointed too far out and the cleat needs to be rotated to bring your heel closer to the crankarm.
Thanks for the advice. I rotated my cleats so my heel was closer to cranks. And it worked!
What am I missing???? When I had my cleats fitted the bike shop had me pedal a stationary bicycle for over an hour while two guide rods were attached perpendicular to my shoe and cleat and the key was the cleats were properly aligned when the perpendicular rods were matching.
They should speak to “Bike fit James”.
Nothing on Q factor, nothing about shoe inserts.🤔
Yeah.....a mind of knowledge - love his videos.
I paid a bike shop to do exactly this to me and i still experience pain in my feet 2 years on....
perhaps the shoe is not a good fit? seriously try putting on flat pedals and use running shoes for a ride, see how that feels
Might indeed be the fit, if it’s the sides of the knee it’s not angled right or fixed sideways, if it’s the front of your knee or hamstrings, consider moving the cleat forwards/backwards. (No float is usually a bad idea)
Sounds like a fit issue Simon, maybe try a different shoe or head to shop with lots of options so you can find what should work for you.
To all those intrested I have tried 3 different pairs of shoes and 3 types of pedal.
I measured at 10.5 so I originally bought size 10 then size 11 now size 12 to account for my boney feet.
Started without clips had no pain moved to spd first ride got pain. Eventually tried different shoes didn't fix it tried look pedals didn't fix it tried new shoes again didn't fix it now I currently have ultegra pedals with size 12 and that's the least pain I get. Very little umpess over 35 miles then agony again.
As for the bike fit I have tried 3 different bikes changing through upgrading and the first one was l with the normal pedals no pain managed 43 miles took it more seriously and got spd pain started there. Changed bike but it was m and I need l so I recently got an l.
That's my whole story any ideas are welcome but don't go thinking I didn't try everything obvious.
And I did kind of get a bike fit when I paid for my feet to be fitted with the cleat position l. The guy was just nice and went over what was agreed adjusting my whole bike.
Oh I got the order slightly off to begin with I bought size 10 then because of pain got measured st 10.5 so bought 11 ect
I've never had any joint pain regarding my cleat alignment, but I do have intermittent issues with numbness in my toes. I have 2 pairs of riding shoes and it's much worse when using a specific pair. Unfortunately it's the pair I like more and paid through the nose for. Personally, I think it's because the shoes are too narrow (seems to be prominent with cycling shoes) and this causes my toes to be squished together and cuts off circulation.
Lots of cycling shoes can be very narrow! Spending more doesn't always mean it is the better option for you. Perhaps look at what you like about the other shoes and look for that in your next pair. 🙌
A lot of talk about anatomy. Sadly it’s Jake’s anatomy which takes centre stage in those shorts and seating position! Consider recording behind a desk next time.
Still, good tips, I have discomfort in my left foot with spd cleats.
Do pedals wear out and cause unwanted rotation or the shoe
Yes they can. If you feel more play than you should even with new cleats, it's time for a new pair of pedals.
wait, are they saying to put the centre of the cleat behind the ball of the foot so it is in line with the ball of your pinky?
Yes, that is how I was trained to fit a shoe. There are actually 5 adjustments for your cleat - left/right, front/back, pointing angle, height (if one leg is shorter that the other, add a shim to the shorter), and angle to the floor (check the heel of your regular shoes, if it worn in one corner, add an angled shim to your cleat).
Your starting point is your normal, relaxed standing foot position (I have a wide stance, toes pointed out, and feet rocked out). You want to match that position on the bike with cleat position. Your feet, knees and hips will thank you!
@@richardsiptrott7286 Thanks that's super helpful. Unfortunately, my cleats don't go back far enough to be in line with the ball of my pinky, but I did adjust them all the way back and then roughly angled them. Im texted to route out the channel to go farther back, but I would need to see if my shoe allows for.
@@danieltull3622 I’d try the cleats as far back as they will go first. That might be comfortable for you. As long as the center of the spindle is between the ball of your big toe and the ball of your pinky toe, your less likely to encourage Achilles tendon or foot arch issues, especially combined with making the other adjustments. Try it for two weeks or 100 miles to let your body adjust to it, then reassess.
Great video!
My left foot is 1cm shorter than the right one. Should the cleats be positioned differently left and right?
It depends. Some bike fitters say stagger the cleats, others say to use a shim, but the amount of stagger or shim isn't necessarily the same amount as the difference. In other words, you don't necessary need a 1cm shim or 1cm stagger between shoes.
Can we just take a moment to admire those DMT shoes 😍 absolute beauties!
I'm getting cleats for my EUROBIKE!
I bought a 3 spoke Eurobike 2 years ago - good looking but a heavy bike.....one word of *very important advice* the cable operated discs are good _to start with_ but will fade badly within a year no matter how you adjust them....get cable operated _hydraulic_ disc brakes fitted.....I rode down Cheddar Gorge last year with faded brakes and it was frightening.....the Hydraulic units work wonders - not as good as full hydraulic of course but far better than the cable operated discs on the Eurobike.
I appreciate your videos and they are always spot on. But what you don't realise is that the bike shops of us mere mortals don't give us the attention you recommend. You don't know how frustrating it can be to look for a bike shop that will help us. Unless we buy a new bike. And our spending power is not that of a Pinarello. We are left alone in the sea of DIY.
no starting point?? put them all the way back, that's the first thing you do, then just angle them the way you walk, you can do this yourself.
Thank you. These guys were killing me
Problems out if nothing.
nike socks with vans
Well i though it was gonna be a comparison between foot positions
But nope its bearly even that…
There is a reason your foot naturally puts your foots center around the pedals pivot point
But everyone is still stuffing the damn things at the front and putting straign on your calves unnecessarily
Even if your the type that pulls your legs up and pushes down the position is still wrong
The only reason its where it is… is so you can unclip easier that is it
Performance and comfort given up for u clipping easier…
Bleah
None the wiser to how to actuly practically fit the cleat..
Speedplay are probably the worst cleats you can have for stability.
Why?
@@SirBrass watch bike fit James on Francis Cades channel if you want the full run down.
This comes from a bike fitter who used to be Sigma Sports lead fitter before opening his own shop which people from all over the world go to