Mid-Foot Cleat Position - A Bike Fitters Opinion
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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I’ve been studying and performing bicycle fits since 1987, and not only do I agree 100% with James on just about everything I’ve seen in these videos, but I learn something every now and then as well. If I lived on that side of the Atlantic, I would definitely trust him to fit my bikes! I thoroughly enjoy these videos. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
Thanks dude!
I could have written the same thing (well, self-fitting since '85, no customers) and agree completely. James is neither stuck in the past or goo-goo ga-ga over new tech. I love the complete absence of lasers and measuring tapes, but everything is still down to the mm.
I have been having foot/cleat/bike issues since they changed the shape of shoes and went to stiffer carbon in the 90's
Recent experience regarding mid-foot; I had been slowly moving cleat backward and appreciating the stability, but something was missing from bio-feedback loop of toe engagement. I have monster calves that can work over my joints and taking them off-line seemed to make sense, but I have crept back up a couple mm and really liking it. I'm a spinner too.
Big point: I wish shoe manufacturers were more clear in how much heel to toe drop exists. Which of the LAKE shoes tend to have higher forefoot drop? (forgot term you used; it was spot on)
Thank you for adding the Toe Overlap into your Video. When I asked the question a couple of Videos back, I never thought I would get an answer but seeing it in the Video made my day. Keep up the good work. 🙂
So I've slowly been working my cleats backward until they are now slammed. Never felt so balanced and comfortable in more aero positions. On top of that, after a few years using cleat wedges on my right side I took them off and my knee doesn't want to drift in anymore. It's possible this was corrective and I learned a new pedal motion but more likely adding solid insoles (your recommendation) and moving my cleats back just put me in the right position. Praise the lord of bike fits. Wish we had a decent fitter in Chicago.
Been using these extender plates for a while for ultra endurance riding. It’s a huge advantage and removes risk of Achilles issues which are really common with long rides. Highly recommended
This was helpful. Since watching a few videos on this topic you guys have made I moved my cleats further back but ran into a lot more toe overlap (size 48 bike and 39 shoe). Helpful to hear James talk about it.
It's a real problem if you fit mudguards!
Fantastic information! So incredibly helpful. Especially for someone with bunions this is priceless information. Thank you so much!
Discovered your Channel 3 months ago, picking up my first roadbike tomorrow, these videos helped immensely making a decision. If i ever meet you guys, ill buy you a beer, or 7. Cheers lads
welcome to road cycling!
N+1 in no time!
I run SPD on my gravel & roadie, and run on the furthest back bolt holes and as close to mid foot as it will go, always loved the power, comfort and peddling dynamics.
Same here.
Plus it’s easier to drop heels for descents.
And 165 cranks 😀
I'm afraid of knee problems. Should I be?
@@jondemise131 I have no issues, late 50’s and ride 3-4 times per week with circa 10,000m per month of climbing.
Gotta say, caught a bike fit vlog last year about rearward cleat placement after pins and needle issues in my toes and I've found a massive improvement 😎👍
Never heard or have come across this adapter for mid foot positioning ( until now). Thanks for highlighting & explaining gents, the topic covered 👏
I’ve been using them cleat adapter since I started cycling 2 years ago. I got the ones that have a 12mm and 24mm adjustment. I went straight to the 24mm position. They are great. Now I should mention that I cycled a FWD, MBB recumbent bike so I don’t get the toe overlap. I’ve been telling people about this since. Thank you for covering this again. Alway find your videos great even though I don’t cycle an upright/diamond frame bike but I might someday.
Interesting stuff guys. I've only been riding clipped in using the two bolt mtb cleats for under two years. A flat pedal mtb'er before. I didn't pay much attention to cleat position at first and ended up with putting them nearly as far forward as I could. Didn't seem to have any issues until a bought another pair of shoes to which I fitted the cleats in the same position as before. I then developed pain in the left knee mostly. After some research I moved my cleats back about 6mm. After allowing the knees some recovery time I can now pedal pain free and I've also noticed that I don't feel as much numbness in my feet after a long ride.👍
Just bought new Bont shoes so this was a well timed video. Many thanks.
As always, you guys are totally in the money! This subject just came up with me and a very good friend of mine. Totally makes sense, too! Many thanks for the enlightenment. Funny how something so blatantly obvious can be so easily overlooked hi just about everyone in the industry.
Amputee cyclist have to deal with a truncated (or no) calf at all. One solution is to place a cleat directly onto the prosthesis stem (no prosthetic foot). Shorter cranks are almost always a must. Being an amputee cyclist myself, using a very good carbon foot with good flex response, I have found that the stresses on the prosthetic side are much different than on the normal side. Oddly, the quad of the amputation side seems to be much less stressed than the normal side. I have a dual sided power meter and the amputated leg often puts out about 3-5 watts more than the normal leg. BTW: I place my cleats as far back as my shoes allow.
Thanks Francis and James "The Fitter " ..I had a bike fitter adjust my cleat position , and I use that every time now . I have only had to but one new pair of shoes and 3 pair of cleats . Not a lot or faffing.
Love the channel and unique insight you always provide. This video was very helpful and as someone who has had five reconstructive knee surgeries I am always interested in finding new ways to better position my body for efficiency and to alleviate pain. I purchased the mid-foot-cycling cleat adapter after watching this video and I absolutely love it. Keep up the great content!
I just love these bike fit videos.
Triathlete here did the mid foot cleat placement. It is good for the run off the bike. I have wide feet and have a custom made pair from D2 shoes. The cleat hole positions were part of the custom order. The overlap was a bit of an issue at least in the beginning. But after a couple of embarrassing falls at lights, I just clip out early and don’t try the track stands.
FYI, only issue that I have never seen covered is clipping in and out. It is harder to clip in and much harder to clip out. Adjusted the Speedplays to clip out at a much shallower angle but still not as easy as forward cleat location.
My setup: I gauged my position on flats and carried it over to my Lakes with a midfoot adapter and Speed play pedals. Running about 40-45mm behind the first metatarsal works for me.
Much better and stable without cafe or foot pain.
I just saw a video on this same subject on another channel and it's very interesting. I'm more prone to endurance cycling and triathlons than anything else, so I'm going to order a pair of these adapters and give it a go. Thanks so much for the video!
Wonderful video! Just came across your channel - a trove of info refreshingly looked at. Thanks.
Regarding toe overlap, there is one situation in which it can become very real and scary for road cyclists: big hills with hairpins.
I've been riding with arch cleats (Bonts were very helpful) ever since losing a gastrocnemius and, with size 49 shoes, get a good deal of overlap. When riding in the Alps my feet have brushed the front wheel on numerous occasions yet not once did it cause me to fall. It's not that I'm a particularly good bike-handler (quite the opposite!) rather, that there always seems to be enough time to adjust.
While I cannot speak for others, from my own experience I learned that the biggest problem with overlap is the fear of what may happen - that your toes might get jammed in the wheel or give it a serious kick. Yet, in practice, this just doesn't happen on the open road.
Or does it? Have others been brought down by it?
You are so right about moving the cleats back! A heel driver from day one, this is hard on Achilles. A piece of arcane knowledge is that an M-540 with a M-545 pedal body with the platform removed (Not sawed off) adds 5mm to the Q factor. That 5mm actually allows full wheel/ toe clearance! This was one of the issues moving the cleats back. 2 bolt systems can also tend to allow mid cleat adjustment. Road cleat to mtb adapters tend to move the cleats too far forward and exaggerate the difficulty walking! Hard earned experience. Mounting a fixie is harder than geared and easier walking, footing, and clip in is paramount!
As a short person on a small bike, I LOOOVE all the incessant complaining about toe overlap. Pretty sure I could move my cleat all the way forward and still get overlap, and that's on 160mm cranks.
Was trying to pay attention to James.... But Francis without a cap on is just far TOO distracting 🤣
Had my cleats quite far back on my old shoes. Got new ones, didn't want to install them myself, so asked the shop. He looked at my old shoes, said they should've been further in the front. So he changed that on my new shoes. Also he put my saddle higher and more to the front...I think I like the more middle shoe position a lot...had pain in my right leg after using my new shoes for a bike packing weekend... PS. Super video!
Back when coaching for a Canadian bike park we always used to get people to ride with their feet centred over the pedal (flat pedals) because it was a much stronger platform to stand on for long downhill runs than putting excess stress on the calf muscles with ball of foot on pedals.
I started cycling over 30 years ago, in a time where you were told: pedal needs to be centered with the ball of the foot. I also still have a 175mm crank still based on recommendation from long time ago. When you start thinking about it, it doesn't make sense. You deliver most force pushing down, when your shoe is a bit more forward you increase the distance to your bottom bracket, increasing the amount of power you can push down. Also when you do squats, a fairly basic power training I would say, you don't balance on the front of your foot but mid foot.
Already placed my cleats more to the back (and adjusted saddle/steer accordingly). Not planing on replacing my crank soon since they are expensive and I don't need to win races but my next one will be 165 with my foot placed a cm more to the front.
Been using the cleat extenders for some time now. Awesome product
MTB shoes on everything! 👌
I tried midfoot with old mtb shoes, felt pretty good, too much toe overlap on my roadbike though, size 46/47 shoes. Combined with oval ring, sprinting felt ceap, endurance was fine. As i ride mtb and cx most of the time, having new mtb shoes made more sense, so have mtb pedals on the roadbike too. Mtb cleats often can go further rearward compared to road 👍 hotspots and tight calves are solved
I use the mid foot adapters on the Lake cx237 for ultra distance, it helped resolved numb toes. Interestingly, the MX237 with spd cleats allows placement further back, as far as matching my road set up but without adapters needed.
Just bought a pair from mid city broski. Thanks for the info!
Perfect shoes size,
Pretty long toes,
Was doing the furthur back cleat for the last year, got new shoes with same italian bolt location and height, a tad rigidity gain but same last shape, sole rock and arch (sold outdoor shoes and ski boots myself, trying to know what I was doing ), saw a track runner with pretty forward cleats and dynamic foot strike, remember I use to track run, tried a tad forward, nearly under the ball of the foot, instantly gained sprinting punch and uphill stamina.
Not going back to further back placement ! Old shoes are going that tad forward !
Will need to adjust saddle accordingly ( little up, little fw ;)
Not convinced by that one, but hey keep it up, alway great content from this Chanel !!!
I can see the day when James tries catalyst flat pedals on his commuter bike 😎. Those pedals definitely move the center of the axle spindle further back.
Been running speed-plays with the extension plate for years after having massive issues with calf cramping running off the bike in my old triathlon days. Never bothered to change that cleat position even when racing at the velodrome and I have never found an issue some 15 years later. There are simply no downsides.
I started trying to go more mid food when mountain biking, and it has been saving my ankles when jumping or hitting bumps really hard!
I'd forgotten about mudguards, in relation to toe overlap. When I used to use mudguards, many years ago, I don't think toe overlap ever caused a problem that I can recall, but there must've been plenty of overlap with the mudguards. So, having some toe overlap with the tire wouldn't seem to matter. Thanks for that.
One unexpected benefit of having purchased the new Asioma power meter pedals for SPD-SL pedals is an increase in Q-Factor over using standard SPD-SL pedals. I still have toe overlap (who doesn't on a modern road bike?), but it has been reduced because my feet are further outward. No problems from the increase in Q-factor, BTW.
Funny I was just mounting my new cleats today and thought "it would be great to review one of the Bike Fit Tuesday episodes" and there you go, James saving my day :) Top video as usual. Great content fellas!
James is a savant.
I vouch for his shoe fitting brilliance!
I drilled out the Northwave SPD shoes I used for longer rides. I lengthened the slot for a few millimeters to get the cleats further back and it made such a difference. When I started to develep pain after about 100km into a ride before I could then ride 200+ on multiple days without my feet suffering. Interesting point on shoes too long. As I have reather wide feet there is always a danger of chosing shoes that are actually too large/long.
There are some brands that have wide sizes as well. My feet started to swell up after a hour of cycling causing my feet to get pinched. Bought a wide sized lake shoe that helped enormously.
@@RickWagenvoort I haven't tried lake yet. Northwave plus/wide have been more or less ok for me (still had to drill out for the cleats though). Tried wide Sidis and they were ridiculously narrow for a wide size. Same with Giro HV. I'll keep searching for the perfect bikepacking shoe. I wear Pearl Izumis pretty much every day for commuting. They are great for walking in so I think about bikepacking with them, but maybe they are not stiff enough because my feet start to hurt on longer rides out of town in them. I will change my pedals to SPDs with a bit of a cage, maybe it helps to have a larger contact point. Man, that's definetely a topic to nerd out about. Riding is so much better when your feet don't hurt.
This dude is freaking amazing.
I developed Morton's neuroma while snowshoeing with my bindings set too tight. When biking, I find my MTB (used for my road bike as well) shoes that have a single continuous lace system cause painful flare ups. I think lace systems that allow the front of the shoe to be tightened separately from the arch area would be a big improvement. I will also try to move my cleats back farther from the ball of my foot. Thank you for these videos.
I have been doing this and it has been a great help to not have my calves cramp when riding. The struggle is that I have a good amount of toe overlap and on the gravel bike that can be fairly sketchy.
I drilled my shoes years ago-not new holes, but extending the travel slot of the cleat attachment plate rearward-got about 1 more cm to the rear.
And I just bought the patro-cleat midfoot adapters mentioned and now I get another 24 mm rearward. I’m psyched.
Fore-foot (MTP joint) cleat placement was always terrible-always hated it. Feels lousy and makes no theoretical sense from a physics standpoint… already went to shorter cranks as well to improve hip and knee compression. Also helps with toe overlap.
Both cleat position and crank length ideas had never been well thought-out from a biomechanics standpoint and were just basically “made up” (cleat position based for absolutely no reason on RUNNING mechanics which is entirely different than biking) and have been in place for decades without any particular reason. Thank God this has finally been changing quite a bit over the most recent decade…
I had to run a more rear ward cleat position as I was squeezing my wide feet into a too big a shoe.
Now using Lake shoes (and still using some mid-foot cleat position), 155mm cranks, shorter stem, 38cm handlebar and have never felt more comfortable!
With Shimano SPD shoes I put my cleats all the way forward, and with Fizik SPD shoes I put the cleats all the way back and this gives me about the same position, so yes like you mentioned it really depends on the brand.
It's a bit like foot contact points in track&field.
Sprinting and jumping is done on the forefoot, due to its springy character. Endurance on the other ends is positioned to the middle of the foot.
Of course there is a "in between" (800m to 1500m) where you might see both.
Have moved my cleats all the way backwards as far as possible and am riding this setp for a year now. Although everything feels more stable and comfortable, as you say, the toe overlap is a real problem for me. It basically makes it impossible to make a u-turn, without unclipping, when I want to come back from a wrong way, for instance.
I gave mid foot cycling a go for several months, also about half of this in combination with shorter cranks. Half of this was in a TT position as i'm mainly a triathlete. I found it didn't really work for me. I found my hamstrings would really tighten up. I've got proportionally longer tibias if that's any indication. I notice i also like to pedal very toe-down near the bottom of the stroke and toe-up at the top. I think this disengages the calf a bit and allows me to use my legs in a more extensive powerful manner. My cadence is around 90 fyi. I think i cycle quite weird but seems to work for me.
This guy is entertainingly hilarious. A cross between Jack & Rowan! Should have his own stage show. I really enjoy watching him.
I have 42's and still get a little toe overlap despite having cleats as far back as I can get them (Fi,zik). not really an issue but I have to clean off the black marks from white shoes after some rides. Not an issue in Winter with the black ones though!
Just noticing that James is a watch guy. Nice Panerai. 👌🏾
I have some great pedals that allow me to effortlessly adjust foot position as I ride and are compatible with most footwear.
I use Catalyst pedals which are specifically designed for the midfoot position. The pedals on the Elliptigo SUB are also pretty cool as well, but they don't sell them separately
The passing comment about fizik shoes having the position further forward caught me! I have super long toes, and use fizik shoes. The result is that I have the cleat slammed as far back as I can and it is still not enough for me.
I've been aware of midfoot cycling for a while but their website has been down for at least the last month :/
I switched from cleats to downhill pedals and regular shoes a few years ago and never looked back. no matter how many adjustments I made to road shoes I always encountered discomfort and injury. I haven't had a single issue or injury with flat pedals.
clipless pedals are good for sprinting and bunny hoping, but studies seem to show they don't really help with efficiency or power in the long run. for me, a roadie who just enjoys going on long rides and doesn't race anymore, the trade-off is a no brainer.
I think so many people go clipless out of fashion and peer pressure. it's a shame, personally I feel like I wasted so many good years of cycling fussing with cleats and dealing with related injuries when the solution was so simple.
one of the added benefits of flat pedals (downhill pedals with a large platform) is that I can move my foot fore and aft depending on cadence and position. I believe this helps immensely with comfort and power, but I'm not sure of any actual studies on this.
anyways, really I just want to encourage anyone who is fed up with clipless to try flat pedals. I know it looks dorky, but who cares -- for most of us the point of riding is health and fun.
Geez, you guys are good.
Interesting stuff never had heard of this before. Probably need these with certain shoe brands just to get the cleats somewhere near to the correct position for the rider.
i've always had my cleats as far back as possible, it just always felt better. glad I'm doing at least 1 thing right with my bike fit lol
Just watched this again.
Long time user of mid foot cycling adapters, that, unfortunately, don't last if you have a bit of power or ride in bad weather.
Now.
I have stumbled across a new product, by "Form" who have developed and selling cleat adapters, particularly for wahoo speedplay, and just about to release a 3 bolt cleat system.
Worth a look because they are far more robust and threaded into the plate rather than captive nuts which failed on me in midfoot version.
Finally someone calls out Fizik for their ridiculous cleat position. Some of their shoes are pretty decent - though I'd like to see a wider toe box on both normal and wide fit shoes, and the addition of 49 and 50 sizes. But good god is the cleat position bad. If you're one of those people who like running or walking on the end of your toes, they may suit you. Otherwise, I think you're heading for problems - big ones. The only exception is their tri shoes line ... but that's still way forward of most brands.
Always had my cleats at the ball of the foot equal to the pedal axle position, only possible when the cleats were forward.
Because of this and some other uploads changed that, having them more backwards.
Result : cramps in toes and front of the foot, had to reinstall them back as usual during the ride.
And actually that seems pretty logical for it to happen, as i was pushing the pedal with the softer foot tissue just behind the ball of the foot.
So there much be something I don't get in this advice, or my feet are different from those of all/most other cyclists.
It's like marching on steps not longer on the ball/broadest part of the foot, but just behind it. Rather painful.
By the way, on a rowing machine, the advice is also to put the shoe straps at the height of the ball/broadest part of the foot.
Old mate Durianrider would preach about moving cleats back, and most flamed him for it.
Good video!
I’ve had a couple bike fitters try to move the cleat to this sort of position but I could never get past how it felt sprinting out of the saddle. Also in terms of toe overlap, I never thought it was a big deal until I rode my old bike which has a bit of toe overlap and whenever I tried to track stand at a stop light I’d constantly be hitting my foot. Wasn’t a big deal but it was slightly annoying.
Gotz Heine put me onto this in Teneriffe. I have two (L4 L5) tears and had post ride cramp type pain that actually did days damage. All bloodflow related. The mid foot has cured 50% of this. I have the adapters but the cheap Shimano shoes are easy to drill. Richmond Park LOL, where would Sigma be without it/them. Funny. PS, I have size 47 feet and yes there is overlap, as there was in the 70's with nearly all, "modern" short frames. You get used to it.
00:03 of running what now Francis???
I've actually been following James' advice on bike fitting and definitely noticed a significant difference in comfort, including cleat position. Armed with this knowledge I have influenced the bike fittings of my friends' bikes, much to their approval. I look forward to learning more each time. On a different note though, I'm still a little puzzled about rolling the hips forward. I can't quite grasp how that should feel.
Just bought a pair of Lakes... Very limited on cleat location as the mounting holes/slots are quite small anyway... Only the adjustment on the actual SL cleat... 👌 Mounted as far back as possible... 👍
Can James do a in depth video on proper shoe size selection. I also would like to hear his opinion leather vs. synthetic shoes.
James, fair play for not commenting on aerodynamics as you ‘don’t have a wind tunnel’. Exactly why I listen to you as you always give well reasoned evidence on all thing bike fit. Casquette; ‘peak up or down?’ I await your informed view.
Always peak down, unless you’re a modern rider with an aero helmet / bike in which case the answer seems to be “up” to negate all the aero benefits you’ve paid through the nose for 🤪
@@bikefitjames5579 Brilliant. Thanks James.
Yes I wholeheartedly agree with bike fit Jame's sentiments about "the idiots at Wahoo" discontinuing the Speedplay aluminium fore-aft extended adapter plates for a near mid-foot cleat position, as they have solved several issues I had been experiencing for years such as tibialis anterior fatigue and slight Achilles tendon discomfort. And I was just about to buy two pairs of the new and improved wahoo speedplay zero pedals with the 65mm spindles, after they finally became widely available, until I read Ronan Mc'Loughlin's in depth review on cycling Tips. Apparently the new and improved manufactured in Vietnam pedals have all developed bearing lateral play issues.. So will hold fire on splashing out until this quality control/ design problem has been resolved.
Thank you for your insights and knowledge, highly appreciated. As an old newbie to cycling I try to avoid as many mistakes as possible to avoid health issues. Just one thing to note: as a non-native speaker it is rather difficult for me to follow your explanations because you're speaking so fast. Nevertheless, great content. Keep up the great work.
Hi James
- thanks for sharing your knowledge for free, appreciated
- for best sustainable power delivery when seated, ie your usual riding position, would/should we be using the calf muscle (to some degree)?
Presuming so, it feels like moving the cleat too far towards the middle of the foot starts to make this more difficult. I've always naturally felt that you want the push on the pedal to go through the foot a bit like you climb stairs - too far on the toes and the calf muscle can't sustain it even if it's initially more springy, too far in the middle of the foot and you don't feel like you get all the push you could due to effectively negating the calf muscle and only using quads.
Happy to stand corrected! Or sit. As you prefer.
I agree with you. I have tested this before. The cleat too far back makes you lose power and is unnatural. The stair climbing theory is best to analyze the cleat position on the shoe and power efficiency. 👍. Just Another gadget to sell $$$$
As is usually the case, preferred foot position really does depend on the circumstances.
If I’m climbing out of the saddle at high torque that’s when my foot starts moving back.
I started running. Got shin splits because I was heel striking. Slowly and painfully I learned to run on the balls of my feet. No more shin splits. I think it would be harder on my knees if I were move my cleats back. Oh, and a side benefit from running on my toes, my vertical leap improved by a foot. Basically, I produced more power because my calves got stronger.
Shorter crank necessitates raising the saddle - so drop with mid-foot raise with shorter crank.
I personally don't think toe overlap would be an issue because at low speed I would be dropping my outside foot to the bottom of the stroke and not out front.
This is great thanks for sharing. Have you covered how to get cleat positioning between SPD and SPD-SL? Appreciate this is shimano system but my point is that there’s an abundance of advice (obv yours is the best) on road cleats - but not a lot on off road cleat systems (and shoes for that matter) and how to get them dialled in. Thoughts?
I have my speed play a little back but I can’t go fully back as the slope of the shoes go crazy & you need the cleats square with speed play or they won’t perform properly. However I feel I’m ‘just’ enough back. This copper bloke is awesome. Let’s have a video on Q-factor, as I’m narrow Have the sides of my shoes very close to the cranks.
As the sole of biking shoes are stiff to rigid, I wouldn´t care about load on the front foot that much. It´s more of a geometric issue concerning the foot ankle. The more the cleats are towards mid-foot, the less you can use your ankle movement to press down the pedals and have to rely on thigh work only. But if the cleats are positioned more to the front, you also have to use your muscles more to move or at least stabilize your ankles.
Increasing the ankles´ work gives you more "punch" and lowers the legs´ movement overall, the energy-sucking up and down of the legs´ mass. But if not well trained, the lower leg muscles to use your ankles may exhaust faster than the rest.
The ball of the foot is not made from delicate bones as James said. Part of it are the heads of the metatarsals; their job is to transfer power and provide cushion during the gait cycle. The first metatarsal alone (and particular its head) bears almost 50% of the weight during gait. If you try to put this load on the midfoot you'll lose power transfer and propably cause problems (depending on intense and duration). This is basic anatomy of the foot and this video makes me question James' opinion in general.
Also, in regard to the metal plate - and this is not my field - I don't think that using a cantilever (the plate) after a lever will add power. The deflection alone will cause loses.
This sounds like cycling ‚conventional wisdom‘ that is worth testing. So much of this has already been proven wrong, like pulling on the upstroke or that the stiffest frame with the narrowest, hardest tires is always fastest.
Not cycling related...... Can you do a video on all James's watches 😁
Looks like a bad ass collection 👍🏼
Francis in ‘I have hair’ video shocker!
CGI
I ride a recumbent trike recreationally. However, I ride for distance (usually 30-50 miles or more). Many riders in my online trike group swear by mid-foot cleats. But I would love to hear a bike fitter's professional opinion on what this does to the pedal stroke geometry and if this is more fad than benefit to the recumbent rider.
I’ve got a question about the relative shape of the sole as James mentioned: ie. high forefoot drop (Lakes) vs flatter soles (Bonts). Which one is generally better for flat feet?
I’ve got hella flat feet. Besides using inserts for arch support, I’m wondering if I should be leaning toward one or the other sole type.
I would say that it depends, but bonts are definitely flatter and could be the right choice for you. for reference I had a pair of riots buckle, and it was definitely too flat shaped for my mid-high arches. the only solution here is to go to a bike fitter and do a shoe fit, it doesn't cost as much as a complete bike fit and it will absolutely change things for the better in terms of functionality and final result.
My cleats are also mounted veeeery far back. It just feels way more comfy and efficient that way.
Would love to move my cleats further back but with size 13.5 feet the toe overlap would be constant.
I’d like to see a video on the reason a flatter shoe doesn’t work for some people.
It’s a curious discussion.
I tried full to the rear cleat placement for a while but it just didn't work for me. Started getting cramps in my arches even with arch support. Moved them about 2 mils forward and it's much better now. Guess I'm wonky? LOL!! Love your videos so please keep them coming!!!!
Yep. I have huge arches on my feet. Placing the cleat under them just makes them feel like they're gonna collapse (even with good insoles). Cleats forward I never have arch issues and it also feels more natural when pedaling.
@@FRANK-pp4rn I think I am with you guys on this. slowly crept back 2-3 mm and it is better. just harder on my joints sorta because there is more loosy-goosy that the calves have to control, but I have my ankling back--just have to be careful to the achilles, as someone mentioned above
Watch for toe pointing/heel dropping when slamming the cleat back.
Closer to the ankle means less cantilever means less stress and more direct power transfer
I have my SPD cleats in the mid arch position because in the standard location I end up with hot foot numbness when I ride because there's too much pressure on the ball of my foot.
I really wanna hear the shoe companys reply to these. I wonder what they think 🤔 as a sales men these videos are amazing
Another very cool video. Entertaining as always. Thanks for the insights. We need to meet one day and have a chat.
Run flat spikes shin bones are great levers
Can we get a video where James shows off his watch collection?
Thanks for the video. Which bont shoes specifically allow for that increased backwards cleat placement? I think I may have sized up a bit too much for the wide fit which has not really made a significant difference in the forefoot. I have a lot of forefoot issues however when I ride on a normal bike with regular pedals and pick my position of pushing I have way more endurance in my foot.
Interesting I'm recovering from a ruptured Achilles tendon & moved my cleats as far back as possible because when i went back to cleats it feels like i was cycling on tip toes.
On flat pedals I naturally put my foot just behind the ball of the foot on the pedal. I'm just switching to clipless and realize the difference. I wonder which is better for sprinting and max power?
That last joke though 😂
What would you recommend for a sprinter weather it be road or track honestly just out of Curiosity when it come to cleat placement?