Dutch crime reporter Peter R. de Vries gives his opinion on the disappearance of Kris and Lisanne
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- 'Een Vandaag' program from August 4th, 2014. Please check my very detailed and comprehensive blog posts for more information and photos regarding the disappearance of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon: koudekaas.blog...
You can buy me a coffee for my investigational work in this case 🤗 www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=6XGPBYGZ3YQ3L
Also check out Juan's many and good videos on the case: / @juantarctica
Or his extensive google album: photos.google....
All the translated videos about this case I put in this playlist: • Translated videos abou...
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I think about this case a lot… it is so haunting and frustrating
Jah,Ik Ook. 😕
What do you think happened?
@@dirkdonger2887 accidents and muder
They didnt go beyond the Mirador. The photo is not from the Caribian side of the continental divide - but from the Boquete side.
they got scared because some creep was following them so they called the cops. not a single picture of either one of them after they go "missing." just a picture of hair. like the crime reporter cogently pointed out, if they were lost they obviously should've filmed themselves with their phones. someone probably abducted them and violated them. looks like the camera was used simply for its flash function to illuminate their environment during the night and this was probably done by the perpetrator.
Journalist Mariana Atencio stated: "During our investigation (of the disappearance of Kris and Lisanne), we came across government corruption, possible drug trafficking, even mentions of organ and human trafficking. Without giving too much away, I will tell you that my life was directly threatened, which had never happened before, even while covering cartel-related violence in Mexico or crackdowns against protests in China or Cuba.
As the team dug into what happened to Kris and Lisanne eight years ago, we found more than 50 cases of missing women and girls in that same 40-mile corridor of Panama."
Published on tripadvisor:
It took me almost a year to finally post this review.
I strongly recommend women to not hire Feliciano as your guide if you’re by yourself. It’s a big contrast if you look at the other reviews, where Feliciano is described as a very nice person, which he probably is for many people. I have to say, he’s very charming, funny and you can probably, as you will read in the other reviews, have a great day with him.
Did a walking tour with him. He’s the guide that knows the area by heart. Not long after we left he subtly started to flirt with me and also touching me, first my hand, but also my arms, shoulder and legs, even after telling him many times to stop doing that. He wears a big machete and suggested to chop off my legs (this of course was a joke but still...). He has an obsession for Northern European women and I felt very unsafe.
It’s a personal story, but google his name and you’ll unfortunately find more stories like this about him.
Yes, i checked your review of him,👍 great job
Many (blond) girls from North-America and Europe disappear in Panama! Especialy arround Bocas de Torro. There is a suspect, an old owner from a coffeeplantation and he also give guided tours to tourists…. They are very affraid for the tourism in Panama.
@@rvz3215 Do you mean Feliciano guide. He actually also own farms around the same trek further the road which these girls took and wont talk about those properties to anyone. This is being said about by a lady who rented his sisters house in panama and spent years around him. She had written a book on the same but as a story. If you want I can share the name
He owns the same farm that has the soil with phosphate on Kris body.
@@SimpleLifeAlways81 How did you know that ? What source ?
Also, I am from a third world country, and it is no mystery that the police would cover up for someone who they are benefitting from. My brother got shot in the neck by some top gang member, and the police didn't do shit to solve the case. Thankfully, my brother made a full recovery, but the person who shot him is still out there somewhere hurting innocent people, which is why most people down here have no respect for the police and it is often better to take matter into our own hands.
So for what is the police?
@@Camila-yy3mh to pretend for the most part. There are a lot of politicians' family members in public institutions such as the police on a pay roll. Most of them do not ever show up to work.
@@AlqantDBlank I am understand. Thank you.
But Europe and USA not better!
Where is money the feelings of human not there
@@Camila-yy3mh yeah, unfortunately everything is about money these days.
@@AlqantDBlank but when we talk about justice so for me is the same if there is money or not.
We are human beeings and Jesus made no difference.
He made only difference between good and bad.
So the system should work
The Tour Guide is in the wrong profession. He should be either an investigator, or even a magician. I mean the way he's able to use X-Ray vision and spot a girl's shoe behind a tree trunk in a jungle is really impressive. Also what a huge coincidence, the same girls he was supposed to meet and is so concerned about he shows up at their house April 2nd, ALSO finds their foot behind a tree :)
That is so strange, how one of the most mysterious missing person's cases would also have so many huge coincidences all circling back to 1 specific person. Also that person was never questioned or investigated. Maybe he was just so helpful they realized nobody who's as nice as him could ever commit a crime. Since when does any nice person commit a crime?
Forget all that evidence, they probably just fell off a monkey bridge into a river like Panama claims. Which explains why all the electronics in the backpack were dry and in perfect condition. They probably got separated from their back pack which is why it's so dry and not damaged. Then a week later they spot their backpack on dry land and take out their camera to take some photos of the night and Kris' hair. Then they place the camera back into the backpack and dive back into the river.
Then on April 11th they return to the backpack, take out the iPhone, turn it on for 64 minutes and then manually shut it off with 22% battery remaining and then place it back into the backpack, zip it up, and jump back into the river where the foot goes upstream and lands behind a tree trunk. Which is then later found by the tour guide.
Also the tour guide calls in about a backpack that was found by a river and tells some innocent looking lady to hand it to police. Then in an interview says they came by helicopter and took the backpack from him without questioning him. I thought a woman from a tribe handed it to authorities, but he says a helicopter picked it. Either way it's fine and just a coincidence.
Or he could be a suspect.
where did you get all of this info?
@@johnballs4107 It's all correct. Research extensively helps from learning all angles of the evidence and theories of how they died.
These two poor girls were disappeared..maybe an attempted kidnap gone wrong and were eventually murdered
That town they were staying in is a gansta paradise.. crooked cops, criminals moonlighting as tour guides; and a whole narrative created to explain that they vanished into thin air
LMAO
And edited the photos or deleted them also.
Just walked the El Pianista trail with my girlfriend. The one thing that struck me is that it is extremely difficult to go the wrong way: except for early on in the walk, there is only one path to follow. You'd have to intentionally veer off into difficult wild terrain where progress is slow in order to get lost. And we did venture a little further than the end of the walk at the summit/mirador point.
Thanks for sharing your experience! May I ask: do you think that Pianista Trail allows for one or two people to slip down the slopes, anywhere?
@@scarletr.7753Hello Scarlet, I don't think so. Every now and then there is occasionally a side of the path that slopes downwards, but fairly gradually and with plenty of trees and foliage alongside. There aren't sudden or steep drops in my opinion.
@@drbalbon7332 Thank you! :)
@@drbalbon7332 And that begs the question of where they were lying in the night photos with a series of the same branch. It was obviously an alert for help rather than trying to see the way... but it still doesn't answer why they did this after 7 days of no photos.
@@scarletr.7753 Psychic take on the case. ruclips.net/video/3HE_ykx51sU/видео.html
Thank you for this excellent video, I appreciate the respect you give everyone. The detective was exceptional - great logic and attention to detail (he does not care if his opinions are popular with anyone), he speaks his mind - I like that. I've been interested, and have researched this case...but nothing affects me more deeply than the bereft, haunted eyes of the Mother (5:16). May God comfort the loved ones. RIP.
Young girls are too trusting of locals in these foreign countries and should travel in larger groups or with a gun.
I second that
i think it's hard to get a gun in a foreign country so traveling in a big group is better
@@vrman4600 lol in South America is easy to get a gun
@bri chomsky what panic? They walked on trails along the coastline. Especially in a large group with rations and at least one experienced hiker. It is not easy to conclude that mass panic would set in
Yeah, both the cab driver and tour guide knew that the 2 girls were dropped off alone at that trail. Plus anyone could've seen them dropped as well. Such a sad case :(
0:12 the fucking guide laughing at the parents and filming everything. This case frustrates me to no end. How that goofy looking dude got away with everything is disgusting
It is very strange behavior to smile and record them like that, there is another video where he snaps a photo of the parents too. Why he was never put under a lie detector test and asked why he was in their room for 30 minutes that day is so weird.
He took the 99 night photos as well 📸📸📸📸📸📸📸📸.........📷
Didn't he locked himself up in the girls' room on the next morning for over 30 minutes ? This is because he had to charge the girls' camera secretly without taking it. He deleted photo 509 with his own computer. He knows computer. No way he should take photos of the parents when they were grieving and sad. Not reasonable. He was arrogant and felt that he was above the law in that area. Feliciano was a bad ass and he enjoyed doing this. He was protected because he worked for a big guy. I am sure.
When Kris' parents enquire about other trails at the Mirador, he can be heard in the backpack saying in Spanish "don't tell them about....".
According to locals there is a hidden seldom used trail from the Mirador to the Tree Trek area. He has been alleged to have blocked or covered up the opening to this trail right after Kris and Lisanne "disappeared". As well as rummaging through their room and not informing the police until later that second day, it's all quite fishy.
That Feliciano would be my chief suspect, the truth will out for those poor girls
@@Suzyfromtheblock
He might not be responsible himself but he might know who was, such as a family member.
I doubt it was an accident. There are complaints about Tour guide F, and he carries a machete with him.... Has a coffee farm inside the jungle. In one review a girl tourist who went alone with him, wrote he touched her and "joked" that he could chop off her leg if she says no. All around creepy. So I think it's obvious who did it. Also taxi driver was killed too. So terrible. Poor girls.
Nina Von Rönne tells us, that Tour Guide Felicinao Gonzales, killed the girls. Nina Von Rönne is french and german. Feliciano Gonzales, was her landlord in 2015 -2017. She was so scared of him, that she fled Panama without her luggage. Nina von Rönne published a book on July 15th of 2021:
“Ne t’enfais pas, nous sommes amis…” about the case of KRIS KREMERS & LISANNE FROON.
I think Feliciano Gonzales and Plineo Montenegro killed them. BUT..........who knows. Especially Feliciano Gonzales is suspicious and the way he inserts himself into the investigation. The photos are probably photo-shopped. Witnesses say they saw Kris and Lisanne on the Lindo Trail - not the Pianista Trail. Lisanne was not feeling well, they went to the pharmacy to get medicine for Lisanne. The pharmacists son testified, that the girls met Henry Elizar Gonzales, son of Feliciano and Jorge Murgas (dead age 23) - in the pharmacy. The pharmacists son (age 24) dies 2 months later and so does Osman Velezuales (age 22), Adonis (age 24) and taxi driver, Lorenze Gonzales. At least 10 people have died in connection to this case. Also Leo Zeltzer - a journalist in Buqette. Mostly young men have died. Question: If your not feeling well, why would you go on an 8 kilometer hike in the jungle? The Lindo trail ascends 1 meter for every 5 meters you walk. Residents saw the girls return quickly from the Lindo Trail - and Lisanne looked very ill. So why would she then talk a hike on the Pianista Trial? If the residents are speaking the truth, its more likely they would take a taxi home. An American turist tells us, that he saw the girls enter a red truck.
@@maxmaxs9608 whoa! I haven't heard alot of that stuff, how disturbing!
and imagine that they found feet and shoes of one of the girls... maybe Kris and Lisanne said no to the guide and he chopped of their feet :o
Just a few wrenches to throw in there but...
Any guide in a jungle carries a machete. That isn't strange or bizarre--that's jungle life. During the rainy season, things grow wildly and have to be chopped back on the trails so that the guide can lead people through. Also, this anonymous girl with the review, she went alone into a jungle with a stranger in a 3rd world country. That isn't a wise girl--and someone so unwise I would have to consider if her judgement is valid in her estimation of him. He's from a different culture and maybe he was joking and the jokes didn't translate or just came off as tasteless and creepy--however, that doesn't make the guy a murderer. Being weird isn't a crime in and of itself.
hey I know I'm a bit late but Feliciano has always an machete with him I've walked the La pianista with him 5 times, and he always has it with him, he has it with him for safety. I don't know if you know this but his mom died in a accident in the jungle in the pipeline.
It's been 3 weeks now that i've been reading about these poor girls and I now seems obssessed like many of you, maybe. My heart goes out to them and I am praying from the very depths of my heart that there will be a reopening of the case and the true culprits will be thrown to prison. There is definitely a crime here, so many questions that can be raised and yet these pics don't show up in any of the cameras.
I feel that same, I think that their souls are still cry asking for help, sometimes I cried for them, and I don't know why, I don't know them, but I think that they suffered a lot. Please panama people if you know something tell the true.
for me almost 1 month, still hoping for their justice 🙁😢 i think the camera there were on just making the case more difficult and only a bluff.. i think there is really a foul play in a case that why they don't have give message to their love ones to call for help? why all the clothes are clean and folded properly inside the bag makes no sense, last why they keep going north the fact that its getting dark? and not going to opposite direction or go backwards to go home safely? i think they we're both dead when photos were taken on april8/9 those photos are only a bluff to show that it is not a foul play and only an accident, i think the last day that they were alive was before the day when someone tries to open the phone at use incorrect passwords..maybe that time the killer is the one holding the phone checking if the dutches that they rape were already dead.
@@marqlutmarquez8490 sadly this case will never be solved. The police and everyone is corrupt there and they don’t want to hurt the tourism business.
But if one of them sprained their ankle or broke their ankle around 4pm when they made the first phone calls, it was early enough in the day for the other to hike back downhill rather quick and get help. They didn't. And why has only little fragments of their bodies bern found when the jungle has been searched through thoroughly. When no animal in the area would be able to destroy skulls and bones. Their shorts were clean. Their backpack was clean. Their underwear was clean. But they supposedly spent a week outdoors in misery, lost and injured. Both of them? If they fell down a ravine they would have been found there. If they died from falling off the bridge why was their backpack clean and no damage to their phones or camera. Why didn't anyone see them when people live close by. If they were left in the water, where is the rest of their remains? Why was only a foot and a pelvis found? And a non decomposed ball of skin? 😷
YES!!! Exactly!!!
No, there is no way she leaves her female friend alone up a mountain in the middle of nowhere! She stays with her, until the morning to hope for the next day
If they got lost or went off path then they were running from someone or something. I don't believe one bit that these two bad ass women died in the jungle cause they fell or got lost. I do wonder about photo 509 and if someone had the know-it-all to delete that photo then why not just destroy that camera and their belongings? I don't know how many locals would know that they would have to delete that photo from a computer to get rid of it permanently and how easy it is to even have access to a computer in that village,cause I could see someone wanting to sell or trade their belongings for money or whatever but the fact that photo was the only one deleted is just weird. I guess it could be a glitch or something like that but then again that's weird as hell also. I always wondered if the door they found in the shoe was cut clean or had animal lacerations on it? I definitely don't see the damn water or river no matter how powerful it is just decimating a human body into pieces. I bet some tribe deep in that jungle has their skulls and bones.
@@mrsinister8943 there’re some tribes still living traditionally and hostile to foreigners (understandably) I wonder if they violated their boundaries making them upset somehow and became their victims. It’s clear that they left designated trail looking for some adventure. I find one of the photo of Kris’ with her tongue sticking out very odd. Maybe they found some sacred places that they’re not supposed to know or look at or simply step in.
@@KD--sj8eo Good points. One thing that I would really like to know and that I think could prove alot is the footage in the shoe that was found and what kind of cut it was? Was it a clean cut like someone had chopped it off or was it where an animal had chewed off the foot? Those would be very easy things for the investigators and coroner to determine cause we all know and animal isn't going to make a clean cut and that there should be bite marks 9n some of the bones of a wild animals came across them or their bodies. I also wonder what kinds of animals are in that area? Are there any leopards,cougars,big cats or bears or whatever? Anything could have happened they could of felt adventurous and went off trail and got lost and encountered an animal or another person or gotten injured. I do find it hard to believe that these girls went out and went off track so bad that they fell somewhere and or got lost and couldn't find their way back and died but stranger things have happened in this world and we will probably never know what really happened. I do think the foot fractures lead to a good possibility that they fell somehow and became lost but it's just weird how they never took pictures of themselves after a certain point or tried to leave some sort of message.
Feliciano Gonzalez infuriates me. He’s a classic serial killer. He has a youth gang at his disposal. A real Psychopathic Monster. His grin and that he’s still grinning is tragic.
Wow, no. He's a crime reporter?? I would about stake my life on both of them being murdered. Why? B/c kidnapping is quite common in Panama, the girls' pics are weird, a goodbye message wasn't discovered, their bones were found together (so one did NOT go off for help, as some theorize), the discovered backpack was pristine, the young boys in the swimming hole with them are also now dead, their cab driver and tour guide were/are super sketch, there is no cliff or embankment anywhere near their path, ETC. But this is an accident? Bless your naive, gullible heart for thinking so.
One more thing: when their tour guide, Feliciano, took Kris Kremer's parents to the area where the girls went missing, he told his buddy (on camera - search YT for it) "No les digas NADA." ("Don't tell them ANYTHING.")
@@mangohaeppchen3447 nailed it.
what? boys are dead too? the handsome dutch guys you mean?
Everything is quite weird there is a guy on RUclips who investigated this case quite exensively and he found out that the Dutch authorities never even confirmed that those remains were the girls.
He also found out that those pics on the mountain were photoshopped.
Everything seemed quite planted there. The girls were kidnapped probably were human trafficked and then murdered at some point.It s horrific.
It was all a big cover up. It s very sad. They tried everything to make it look like they got lost in the jungle in order to safe their tourism.
@@bugrilyus Yes, the ones in the watering hole with the girls.
The more I watch videos about this case (and I've watched videos in different languages, including reports from the locals), the more it becomes evident that the girls were abducted and killed.
Nonsense. Here's what Occam's razor tells us. The girls finished the hike quicker than they expected and decided to walk on a bit further (or they thought it was a loop track). People, including their parents, say it's impossible to wonder of the trail because it is so obvious. But that doesn't factor in if they intentionally went off the trail because they ran out of water. They could hear the river nearby so they went down to fill their water bottles. Unfortunately they didn't realise how steep it was and they slipped and fell and suffered critical injuries. People wonder why they didn't try more emergency calls, it's because they were stuck in the same spot the entire time, broken backs or broken legs or broken hips, or all of these. They tried to conserve battery by switching their phones off. But they realised the emergency calls were futile given the lack of service in that one spot. The girls sheltered against the cliff and spread their rubbish to signal to anyone looking over the cliff or from the sky. One photo shows the white papers forming an SOS. The red plastic bags (proven to be from the village) was also a signal/marker while they sheltered closer to the cliff to stay out of the elements. They tried to take a photo of Kris head injury. Kris eventually dies. Lisanne either doesn't know or forgot Kris' pincode after her own phone battery died. The reason they went silent for a week is because they knew it was futile. They decided to conserve battery and wait for help. The night photos were taken because Lisanne could hear either helicopters that day/night or the audio signals the search and rescue were using. She was using the camera flash to try and signal them but slowly loses hope which is why the photos begin to slow down and get further apart. This may have also been Lisannes last efforts to signal for help before succumbing to her injuries/dehydration/starvation. If you want to find the site where they died it is somewhere upstream (obviously) from the evidence found, bones, backpack, shorts etc. The river Changuinolla starts not far from El Mirador. The location they died will be on the western side of the river on a steep section with a large rock and open canopy somewhere between the location of the shorts and El Mirador. If you can find this location there will be some remnants of the rubbish they left. It will also be where the animals pulled apart their bodies so perhaps there would even be some bones, hopefully for the families sakes, the skulls. The missing photo was either a glitch in the camera software or the Panamanian police deleted it, that is the ONLY conspiracy theory worth investigating. There was no foul play, no murder, no gangs, no cartel, no Photoshop (absolute nonsense). Just two girls that slipped and fell and suffered unimaginable pain and fear for a week in the Panamanian jungle. Someone please find this location so the girls May finally rest in peace.
tripe @@69429boss
Agree. Anyone that disagrees just hasn't done their homework. "F" went to the girls room, stayed for 15mins after their disappearance, he called the police, he found the bones, he collected the backpack from the lady who claims to have found it, some of the clothing was found on the boundary of his property, he's up to his neck I'm this shit. Ocamms razor indeed. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
@69429boss
They would have been found in your scenario. Nor would they have made just one emergency phone call each that afternoon and evening. The first night would have been the most scary. They would have tried and tried again. Nor would they have turned the phone off immediately after it connected to the emergency service for a split second on a subsequent day. If you see you get a brief connection you try again. You don't then turn the phone off and not bother to try again.
The bras were not used to aid any injuries, even though they were the only things they had to use as a bandage, strapping or padding. Instead they were found in the backpack.
There were no night searches in the mountains in the rain. Helicopters don't fly over mountings in the dark in the rain. It just doesn't happen.
Everything you wrote is completely off base.
You are a f goofy you! Shame on you!!
Everyone here is saying it was murder but I just find it extremely hard to believe a killer would delete a single photo rather than disposing of the entire camera
It's psycopath psychology.Its like making a joke of the police cause there is so much evidence left behind (intentionally or not) and still the investigators are unable to catch them
@@shrutik9673 Yep.
I pray this case gets solved one day so there families have some answers.
Mysterious how they still havent found Kris red and white top. Its distinctive and dont believe that would have travelled far in a jungle were it would have been snagged on branches or small trees. Suspicious to the core.
Brooo why this 2 girls were by themselves in this jungle in a unknow country omg
Same thing I would say. World is a bloody dangerous place as it is.
It appears very naive.
To think they were only out there on that day because their volunteering had been cancelled as well.
That said, hiking with barely any water & food, no compass, no change of clothes, no emergency blankets or flares... this is craziness to me.
@@Ryotbh yea
european people are very naive in relation to foreign countries
@@SoxExcalibur it is not true. I believe instead that the girls agreed to meet someone there
And now this poor man has been murdered, too! RIP, Mr de Vries.
Wow...
Now Peter de Vries got also killed by drug gangs in NL. He was a threat for them and they have silence him RIP.
I think someone followed them and killed them
That was most likely the case
More than one person. Murder.
@@illegalquantity Bull.
Bull.
@@sharir.878 Bull.
When out in the wild, renting a satellite phone is a good investment
@La Paz sport watch with LTE? Nah...
Actually ham radios are better. Also, get a paper map and learn to use a compass.
If the Panama police has wrapped up this case quickly, there is someone powerful they fear or a gang out there and I read they have been many instances like this which is a mystery or kept that way.
I think there is foul play involved; just depends whether it was covering up a crime or incompetence.
If the girls slipped and fell from one of those rope bridges for example... it’s in the Panamanian interest to not report it as such for fear of negative backlash, reduced tourism, and compensation based claims.
@@Ryotbh true. People always want a deeper conspiracy but it’s all just foul play and cover ups in the end most of the time. Shouldn’t be asking what but who.
yes lots of incidents , one girl german was raped , ?would think the police would talk to her. who would go to that shit hole any way ?
Poorer/smaller countries that bring a lot of money through tourism do not like stories of crime. It’s way to inconvenient and costly to the economy of the entire country to confirm foul play. Them getting lost on their own and having an accident is a convenient inconvenience to accept. It’s the sad reality of most of Latinamerica, corruption and incompetence everywhere. I feel strongly that there was foul play, and also feel strongly that authorities in panama desperately want to believe it wasn’t foul play and they are not going to go poking a sleeping bear.
I believe the guide did it. Going to their room and searching it for 30 minus then not calling the police for hours?🤔
RIP Kris, Lisanne and Peter.
Who is Peter ?
The crime reporter, who thinks there was no foul play. He was killed on the street 2 years ago in Amsterdam after leaving a tv show
@@kroepoekhetkonijn5296 Was he too arrogant ? He looks unfriendly to me.
Any hiker knows that these girls were unprepared for the hike. Hiking can be perilous. No (1) compass, no (2) trail map (actual and digital), no (3) rain gear, no (4) extra energy food, no (5) fire starters, no (6) knife/tool, no (7) emergency whistle, no (8) headlamp with extra batteries, no (9) flashlight, no (10) extra battery for your cell phone, no (11) first aid kit, no (12) windbreaker, no (13) extra Socks. In addition, a Satellite Phone would have maybe helped. Many people die in New Hampshire's White Mountains each year because it's bright and sunny when they start a hike with shorts and a T-shirt, and the weather changes abruptly, and they die of hypothermia. Without a compass, you can become disorientated and go around in circles. I disagree with the parents. It's easy to get lost in the jungle. After the divide, the trail was not well marked. In New Hampshire's White Mountains, you have incredibly brave and remarkable rescue groups and helicopters; still, people die. Even experienced hikers who let down their guard die. Wet and 55F and windy, and you will die of hypothermia. Once the girls continued on into the dense jungle after reaching the divide, they were doomed. It's easy to get off the trail, even in the White Mountains. All this being said, I believe there might have been foul play. Where are the rest of the bones? Where is the skull? Why did they discover other human remains? The world is a dangerous place. Never hike alone. Never hike without the gear above.
Thanks. Yes I agree, it is easy to get lost and they wére ill prepared for such a hike. But the story doesn't end there and unfortunately months of high intensity, professional searching (of this relatively small area) turned up nothing, with the Sinaproc chief stating he and others were convinced the girls were not in that area. The places where some of their remains were eventually found, had been visited by others before. There are a ton of case details that contradict a straightforward 'Lost' accidental cause.
They weren't planning to go on an expedition. Just a relatively simple hike up the Pianista trail to the Mirador. It was a nice day. They did the walk up to the Mirador in good time, and they don't look tired and uncomfortable in the pictures. Seeing as they made it in good time without any difficulties (they didnt even go the wrong way where the trail splits before the summit) and feeling fit they probably spontaneously decided to walk a bit further, and got to the stream in picture 508. Very likely the third party came along shortly after. I don't think it was the hike/terrain that killed them but murderous humans.
The guide killed them
Feliciano Gonzale and his criminal son, the leader of Los 5 Gang. Possibly Tour guide Phine Montenegro was involved. I think they made it out of the Pianista Trail, because they were seen getting in to a red car. The telephoning is a diversion tactic. I think they were kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered.
It is interesting how Kris was unsmiling and looked uneasy in her last photo at the river. Given the mood of their previous photos, they should both have been ideally standing on those rocks together smiling and taking photos together. The fact that this particular photo shows Kris alone at a distance on the river looking back with an uneasy expression on her face is a cause for concern. Even if she had instructed Lisanne to take a solo photo of her, she should have at least been smiling and posing because she was comfortable in her friend's company. This leads me to believe that they had already encountered their assailant(s) at this time. Perhaps it was the assailant behind the camera taking a photo of Kris for whatever reason hence her worried expression. The argument that they got lost holds no water simply because of the state some of their remains were found in and the detective is right, they would have left at least a message or something narrating what went wrong. Their bodies would also have been found intact because they would probably have died of starvation if they got lost in the jungle. The night photos are the biggest puzzle in my opinion. It makes no sense at all that they would suddenly decide to use the camera as a flash to illuminate the way after all those days. Even if that is the case, it doesn't explain the photos of the sky or kris' hair with hints of blood on it. I actually thought that that photo could have been Kris herself holding the camera behind her head to try and take a picture of the wound in order to assess the damage. If that is true, then it means that she must have been alone at this point and was probably taking pictures of the sky as a way to try and signal her position to Lisanne or potential search teams whom she would probably have expected to be on the lookout for them. The photos of the surrounding could then imply that something or someone was lurking nearby and she was trying desperately to see who/what it was. Based on the evidence, i know for a fact that it was murder. The only questions that remain unanswered are who did it, how they did it, why they did it and the location of the rest of the remains.
Hi Martin, yeh I also felt that Kris looks pensive or perhaps a bit uneasy in that last photo 508. But then again, she looks a bit like that in one of their first photos on the trail (476) as well, and also in photo 491, taken before they reached the summit. Kris may simply have had such a 'resting face', as they call it. It is tempting to look at these photos with the knowledge of today and to try to find signs of their fate in them, but it is just as well possible that there truly was nothing the matter yet there. Other than that they seem to have kept walking beyond the summit and normally that terrain would make most people who are new to that place a bit squeamish, I'd say, as it has narrow trails that wind through rocks with moss and is a bit eerie perhaps. Lisanne does seem to be at quite some distance from Kris when she took photos 507 and 508. Perhaps she wanted to have a nice composition of the surroundings and waited for Kris to pass the stream for a portrait+landscape photo in one. But yeh, no big smile and kids these days are usually well aware of the social pressure to make these big colgate-smile photos, if they are later to be shared successfully on social media. I also think they weren't alone there, and neither on the summit (hence why they suddenly started taking thumbs up photos, copying a 3rd person out of our view up there; something they never did in the weeks prior during their holiday). I also think that you'd really need to stretch common logic to turn this case into a convincing Lost/Accident story. It makes no sense to me, when you take ALL the details that are known into consideration and when you resist the urge to zoom in on every detail of the case, but in fact step back and overlook the entirety of it. Then there is not a shred of doubt in my mind either that they fell victim to a crime. Unfortunately. And authorities and their minions (trolls/media/online) are doing all they can to demonize, ridicule and dismiss the people who do not accept the official and very flawed and unproven narrative of them falling down some ravine, which has never even been pointed out, or fallen down a river crossing (both of them) while the water was low that week and you could just have waded through those narrow rivers and these girls were tall, athletic and like 99% of the Dutch people they could swim well. For once, the ' conspiracy' people are talking more sense in this case than the actual supporters of the official story.
if they had to be together in each photo, they would not have photos of nature, which was probably the main reason for their trip - usually people travel to see the world. Taking pictures in 2 - girls were limited to the length of the arms so would not be able to capture nature. And girls do not have to smile ear to ear in every photo - especially since trips to the jungles are exhausting for the body due to the temperature and stuffiness, we lose energy faster. People are often telling me that i look sad - but I'm not sad im just not smailing often but i doesnt mean that something bad happened, so i dont see point in your conclusions. Regarding finding intact bodies - girls went missing in a jungle where wild animals live so I expect the bodies will be somehow desecrated by animals. In fact, a shoe was found with a foot inside of one of the girls, which looks much more like animals behavior (the animal would have a problem with taking the shoe off). I do agree with black pictures and trying to signal their position. I don't think it was a murder - the number the girls were trying to reach was emergency number if they were in some different scenerio they would be trying to reach also different numbers like police but the girls kept calling the same number.
@@bozenabiko2126 "girls went missing in a jungle where wild animals live so I expect the bodies will be somehow desecrated by animals. "- the problem is that none of the bones showed microscopic evidence of animal claws or teeth or animal predation in any other way. And there are no animals in that part of the world which eat entire skulls, to name something. Without evidence of animal involvement (backpack and clothes and shoes found also showed zero evidence of an animal attack), it is just as far-fetched as for someone else to think that a serious face may equal trouble around them
@lati long Good point. It is true that F. sounded upset and stressed in an earlier video, in which he urged authorities to make haste with the searches. And indeed, later on he did sound more cynical, he may have known already that logically speaking, all hope was gone. He also highlighted on camera how the authorities only put on a show of searching for them when the parents were physically present in Boquete :(
@@scarletr.7753 all bones have never been found, the jungle itself is a living organism, high temperatures accelerate the decomposition process, rain can be so abundant that it creates river streams in previously dry places, both water and animals are able to scatter the remains everywhere. If the girls were seriously injured and unable to move, they might even drown - and yes, it could happen.There are so many organisms, insects in the jungle that there need not be any traces of huge tusks and claws on the bones. In fact there are animals that could clean bones, not only invertebrates but also for example- Serrasalmidae (piranha) and they do it so delicately compared to other animals and as far as I remember the remains were found by the water. For me the backpack is only evidence that people were not involved in it, if they were, the contents of the backpack would have been stolen a long time ago, for animals the backpack is nothing interesting, but the meat is.
Feliciano (guide seen in this video) knows exactly what happened! Evil!
What is the most common form of documented violent crime throughout South America and likely Central America? It happens to be kidnapping.
According to the remains, they died.
its like i said the most common form of documented violent crimes troughout USA is the serial killers in highschools like Columbine or so many others, that never happend in southamerica, but is very common in USA
Then why didn't they steal their phones, the camera and $83 that were all left in the backpack?
@@espartacus001 wtf are you talking about; that’s a fraction as common as violent crimes in south america
@@1998rg True. The backpack and bones/2 hiking boots-one from each girl. (One with a foot still in it) 2 months after there disappearance AND only after a $30,000 reward was offered for anything leading to the girls disappearance.
I'm korean and i think
If they really suppose to notice they are in risk, they would have taken picture sure enough to show their condition, but their pictures don't 'and meaningless.
I suspect natives in the mountain would take the pictures. They don't know how to use camera, so they might take meaningless pictures.
I’m not sure whether the natives are as clueless as you believe. Supposedly there weren’t any completely primitive tribes in the area.
I agree though, that’s the big question - if you suspected you were being followed, you met an accident, or you got lost; the first thing you would do is start documenting / taking photographs to try and establish you’re not going back on yourself, or as evidence of what happened.
You would also make a clear trail of sorts, if lost, so that a potential rescuer would be able to follow it.
@Computer Yes. And that can also explain why some of their bones were bleached, and broken up carefully.
Why the clothes were folded and why the backpack and contents were neat and clean.
I wish it explained why a lot of townsmen who were involved died mysteriously under questionable circumstances shortly after the tragedy, but nevertheless, it does answer a lot as to the fate of the poor girls.
I agree with you.
I think they already stalked by someone who already know them from beginning(I suspect someone who know that they will going hike in jungle). When both of them died after few day some local found that camera and probably dont know how to use that. And they go away(because they dont want that camera or they found someones dead in that place so they he want get involved).
You are right, it's local canibal tribe
They know how to use phones and Cam
@@RyotbhI saw a comment that there is a primitive cannibal tribe deep in the forest of this area. That is one of the local theories. Cannibals got them.
It's so sad and painful...💔
this shit is scary 'cause as the expert says, when you know you are lost and your hope of surviving completely dies, the most common thing to do is to record a final message saying good bye and I love you to family members (specially parents), yet this never happened, which makes me think that these girls were not given the chance to do so, which means they were constantly being chased. Kris seemed to have perished much sooner than Lisanne, and poor Lisanne was probably caught by someone who cut her foot off in order to prevent her from escaping. There is definitely foul play at hand, shame on the Panama police forces for waiting for so long to take action.
Edit:
I beieve it all started to happen as soon after the picture of Kris at the waterfall was taken, when you can clearly see that she is not enjoying the hike anymore.
Nina Von Rönne tells us, that Tour Guide Felicinao Gonzales, killed the girls. Nina Von Rönne is french and german. Feliciano Gonzales, was her landlord in 2015 -2017. She was so scared of him, that she fled Panama without her luggage. Nina von Rönne published a book on July 15th of 2021:
“Ne t’enfais pas, nous sommes amis…” about the case of KRIS KREMERS & LISANNE FROON. Maybe it was Felicinao Gonzales and Plineo Montenegro who killed the girls. But maybe Feliciano is covering up the crime for his deeply crimiminal son, Henry Elizar Gonzales and his criminal gang: Osman Velezuales(dead), Jorge Murgas(dead), Jorge Rivera Miranda (dead), Heriberto Gonzales(dead)......
@@maxmaxs9608 we would have to see how much power does thos Felicinao guy has, it is not uncommon in third world countries that people with power or ties in the police get away with things like these. I come from a third world country, so I know what I am talking about.
I really think that last photo, Kris is looking behind Lisanne, like there was someone behind her!
Nope it's almost impossible to believe that this was an accident. Too many ''but how come...'' questions gets to your thoughts if you believe that.
Why didn't they atleast attempt to call their parents with some sad message saying i love you we're in trouble or whatever. And who calls 911 only once the first day you get lost? Like wouldn't you attempt more times to do that :/ naahh it feels like someone came to them and kidnapped them rape and murdered later on.
@@hesitatenothing well thank God ur here because it sounds like you got it all figured out Detective Nordström.
That photo of them at the summit does not look like they walked through mountainous jungle terrain at all. They don’t look sweaty or dirty or like they have just walked up a mountain. I’m just guessing like everyone else but those daytime photos bother me. Also, no way they went for 8 days without food...and still be able to function. Nope....just no. Try going for 8 days without food....drink all you want but no food for 8 days and see how you’re doing on that 8th day. You will not be able to stand or even spell your first name.
I was fasting for 10 days and it would not be easy to be functional, but if one has water, your body and brain will function all fine. It is not starvation that people die first. Dehydration and hypothermia comes first as the cause of death.
thats a good point ?
@@SatumainenOlento that's correct
Also Lisanne Froon was not feeling well, according to Miriam Guerra and Lisanne´s own diary. So why would she go on an 8 kilomter ascending hike, in a jungle? No, these photos from the Mirador, are photo-shopped.
@dish dog If you say so.
I think about this case a lot!! I'm from Belize central America north of Panama!! I think the tour guide did it and killed their taxi driver because he would have known something!! Also the tour guide has a coffee farm in the same area!! And he flirts with European girls once you're single!! I've seen this from a French girl review!! Sad story hope they find the killer!!✌🙏🌎
i think there is other incidents on that track >one german girl got raped , i would think they would of spoken to that girl ?i think they where taken some where murderd ?bags clothes left nr the water to be found , when one guid went on the serch he found the boot in a bush ,, Did he no it was there .??very sad
They should never have traveled there in the first place big mistake RIP girls
thats always afterwards. For Lisanne it was a big step to the grown up world. You can read that in her diary. The children orphanage where the big blame imho they send them away, while it was known for months that the two would start on the first of April.
This is one of those cases that feels completely mysterious even though there is so much evidence to the case.
Much of it could be misinformation or altered to benefit the third parties involved in the case. Nonetheless, it’s so odd how there is so much photo evidence and even physical evidence. Next to that the odd way the phone was used…
Maybe there was a message recorded, but was erased...
Yup, either that or there should either be a recorded msg. In either case it's points to foul play
But the murder tried to acess the phone and did type wrong the password 70 times, I do not know if he really got fully acess to the phones , maybe he got acess later in his computer (?) btw all I can think is that the murder did get acess to the phones because if they couldnt acess it they would not give back the phones with the camera.
Ah, and one point I want to make : the murder did delete one picture from the camera , because there is one picture missing
@@salwaslav8442 Yes indeed I think someone has accessed the computer to interfere with the phone (so to erase both the messages and the important picture). As we know that the guide has returned to the girls' room, I strongly suspect that it is him.
How could both of the girls have an accident at the same time or on the same day and both died from their injuries? It is impossible. It is highly unlikely for one of the girls to have an accident, let alone 2.
@@Kitties_are_pretty The Phone logs are no evidence that they were alive, nor that they were used by the girls. In fact the phone logs rather indicate that foul play is involved.
Just a little hint:
You get lost with a friend before night sets in. Something happened. You call 112, you get no connection. Then your friend dials 112 again after 20 minutes. And then you leave the phone untouched for 14 hours.
Does this look like a typical behavior for sane students who are in fear of being lost and must spend the night without any kind of preparation out in the forest with temperatures falling down beneath 15°C.
Everyone of us would try it more than 2 times to call emergency.
Or would you try it 1 or 2 times and then say "oh we tried, let us give up for today, I am okay with sleeping on the ground in a cold night here in my shorts und shirt. I will try it in 14 hours again, because duh I need to save battery life for the next 9 days I might be out here."
So you see, it is the phone logs themselves which are fishy as hell, especially on the first day.
@@callyacaos5339 or one girl becomes incapacitated, other girl's phone is out of power, she tries to use her friend's phone but doesn't know the PIN.
@@manephewlenny6401 That is indeed a possible explanation why there were so many false log in attempts. Both phones were used for 3 - 5 days. Then why turn off the phone you don't know the pin for? But it does not explain the fishy looking phone logs overall.
Why for gods sake do you only try 2 times on the first day to connect to emergency?
It does not make sense. It was between 4:30pm and 5:00pm. The rest of the day they did not even try.
No SMS, no notes, nothing - Camera was not even used for 7 days.
Why not try to light up a fire with the camera lens? It is a forest, not a bunker so sunlight can reach the ground often enough.
They did nothing but call emergency. And that one time they got a connection for 2 seconds they hung up?
I am sorry, but I am still convinced it was a crime. And the founding of the rucksack is for me the most crucial hint towards that.
@@callyacaos5339 they were 22 year old girls who probably thought they were out camping in the quiet woods around Amsterdam. Have you ever been hiking as an adult over any difficult terrain? It is easy to fall. When you have no survival skills, no idea of how dark it actually gets in the middle of the night, no previous experience in such a situation and then you lose a friend to what seems to be a serious accident, you'd panic and do anything to try to get them help. When that type of sheer animal panic hits you, you can easily go 5km in the wrong direction further into the jungle. They were kids completely out of their depth.
@@manephewlenny6401 Yes that could have been. But we don't know for sure, that it was like that. But unlikely that girls who wrote diaries and were very present on social media, totally forget to use theirs phones only for calls.
The Area the girls went lost is no totally save space. There are reports of gang activities and drug trafficking. There have been around 50 people been reported missing in 2014 alone and only a few were found.
So do I believe there could have been a tragic accident where nature was against the girls and swallowed them? Yes I could, if there was not so much failure about this case. The story of a river/creek splattering the bodies of the girls in 1000 pieces is just pure nonsense. They never went over that cable bridge.
They met the wrong people and got played. To many indications for that, sorry.
I have read a lot about his case now and I think they were murdered. The killer could have dialed 911 from girls phones just to leave an impression that the girls were trying to call for help(while they were already dead).
Also, how come two fit young women can perish in such a place where there is fresh water available (rivers) and the temperature does not get too cold even at night. One falls and dies, fine- but then the other one too? Too much of a coincidence.
but he or she tryed so meney time ?i think they got seperated ? for some reason .has one was unable to enter the phone coad ?was she using , or was some one useing the other girls phone ? a german girl was raped in that ereah , on the tour guide feed back , a girl said great hike but stay away from one guy he was weirde , he carried a maccetie and said he would chop you up , and one guy was allways trying to crack on to the girls ?i think they where murderd , very sad
Having watched several videos and listened to several theories, I learned that the pieces of their bones that were found were not screatched, but scattered along with other peoples' bones. This seems to indicate that they were taken for their organ harvesting- or something else nefarious.
A few small pieces of bones from each of the girls was brought back so the authorities could say that they were dead and case was closed. The reward was pretty large and would be tempting for many of the locals, but no one seemed interested in finding anything, they were more scared of the gangs/cartels.
I think those pictures taken during the night were meant to mislead authorities and the families nto thinking they were still alive and just lost. The photo of the hair could have been anyone or taken anywhere
Hi Bette, the videos online, especially from youtubers, are not always as correct in the details. If you are interested in the full details of the story, including the bones, feel free to read my blog series koudekaas.blogspot.com/ or the articles from Imperfect Plan, also on the bones. It is true that these very few bone remains were found several months after the girls disappeared, and at places that Sinaproc claimed had been searched before. There were no markings on them from predator animals, no microscopic indentations from bouncing off river rocks either. Very little markings in fact. The other remains were claimed to have been from local indigenous people, who are allowed to be buried at their own terrain. The problem with the reward theory is that from what we know (which is far from everything, granted), the people who found the backpack did not flat out demand the reward money. The people who found the bones only later said they were disappointed that they never received reward money, but it did not get played out at the time in the media, for instance. Still, reward money can be a motivation for dumping these couple of bones; none of them could show a cause of death, after all. So they were non-discriminating and used to solidify the 'lost' theory, so even the prosecution and police had a motive to plant them in the wild.
@@scarletr.7753 Thanks for the info, will check it out! Such a sad case
@dish dog Yeh... well in a country with a normally functioning, non-corrupt justice system, you would be busted within a week. But in Panama you would stand a good chance to get away with such a clumsy scheme :)
Organs can’t be taken in that manner. Will ppl stop with that shyt? I have been PRESENT when organs are harvested!!! NURSE OF 13yrs STOP FURTHERING THESE LIES.
@@scarletr.7753 Or in F's words: "after we found, no, nothing thank you for your help nothing".
Rip Peter R de Vries
I don't get why if one of the girls was uninjured, wouldn't one of them go for help? That trail is well traveled. People even take their animals through there. Someone said that in their pictures before the trees there should be houses everywhere. Why aren't there any houses in the pictures?
This is a community before the actual trees. If I was in a jungle with someone and they got injured as much as I love them, I would go for help. Especially if the community is so close. The both of them didn't need to die if one of the is still mobile.
Or if her friend is injured but can still move, why not move back towards town? But if I was with someone and we were close to safety and had the opportunity, I would try to go back to the town. They both had a cell phone. The uninjured one could take the phone with the most battery and hike back to town with one of the water bottles and the camera and hike back towards town.
There are too many people who have been lost that have done everything in their power to get back to safety. Cut off limbs, climbed over actual mountains, been caught in fires, been caught in avalanches. So if one of these girls was uninjured, she could take the phone with the most battery, camera,one of the water bottles, and whatever she needs and hike back to town. The injured one still has a phone. There are too many lost people in history who have done everything in their power to get back to safety. No way would these girls not do the same. I have a feeling that if one was injured, the unijured one would take the phone with the most battery and hike back to town. That way, she could get help for her injured friend.
Lisanne was an experienced hiker. I doubt they would just lay down in a cave. If one was not injured, she would have gone for help. This whole thing is suspicious. Lisanne is an experienced hiker. And everyone says this trail is almost impossible to get lost on. Everyone would see them. The tour guide inserted himself into EVERYTHING! That's way too suspicious. Killers love to insert themselves into their crimes. And 2 men were murdered after their deaths.
Tourists have been getting killed in Boquette constantly. Over 400 people have gone missing in Boquette, and the majority have been murdered. While a podcast crew were doing a documentary on the case, a woman went missing while they were there. Locals are terrified to talk about the girls' deaths. Those who tried to have been found murdered. While the podcast crew was there trying to interview locals, they got death threats or were found missing. Locals that were going to talk to the crew about the girls suddenly decided not to because they were threatened. One had a bodyguard because they were scared to talk to the crew. Henry's mother, one of the men who was murdered says that he was in fear for his life before his death because he knew what happened to the girls. Osman was also murdered. One of the men had a picture of him standing over an unconscious woman with ashes in her hair and a stick in his hand against her face. Yet people want to say the girls got lost. Why aren't there houses in the pictures before the jungle? There should be houses before the jungle.
But if one of the girls is unijured, why wouldn't she try to get back to town. Reports say that the girls were seen at the edge of town looking exhausted and tired. They never actually went to the summit just to the opening but not the hike. But their actual last sighting was at the edge of town looking exhausted and tired. Why is it in the summit pictures that they don't look exhausted, tired, sunburnt they were in tank tops and shorts. They don't even look like they were on a 4 hour hike. My fair skinned child is in the sun for 10 minutes, and she is sweating, red, and looks exhausted. People at the gym who do intense workouts are red, sweating, breathing hard, and looking exhausted and tired. But at the summit pictures, they look like they haven't been outside but 5 minutes.
Even Kris Kremers' father noticed they don't look exhausted at the summit. One of the murdered men started wearing sunglasses identical to one of the girls after their deaths even though it wasn't their style. One of the 4 men is now wearing pink bracelets. Lisanne wore pink bracelets. I think it is Feliciano who is wearing the pink bracelets like Lisanne's but I could be wrong but one of them started wearing pink bracelets identical Lisanne's after her death.
Feliciano is always smiling... It's strange.. He is an old crafty fox.. He knows everything...
The parents had to go with a Dutch who speaks advanced Spanish and record everything, and once the guides leave after touring the Dutch-Spanish guide, tell them what the Panamanian guides said, it would have been a good idea for evidence
Been Thinking About That Too.
This shows, cell service or not, please turn "on" GPS location on your camera phone. Even some regular cameras have it. What this does is that every picture you take it will mark the coordinates, GPS, of that photo and where it was taken. If you want it private, turn it "off". But for safety's sake, turn it "on".
The farm owning tour guide knows exactly what happened
Do You think it was him
@@pamelapollock2774 no madam .. it might be done by locals , did you notice that locals ? They are not looking good
@HellieNakagawa omg! Where did u read that? Who was that guide?the old guy?
@@keisarosa8268 I found out about the tour guide in the video about this case by "Peaked Interest"
@Nazareyes Could you tell me when he said that? If thats true thats fucked up
Thank you for the video
I've always been intrigued by that last day photo, in particular Kris' uneasy expression, what did she see?
Also the missing photo 509, people seem to overlook the fact that to permanently delete a photo in this manner you would need to use a computer, because you can't delete the raw data of a photo on the camera. Which means that whoever deleted that photo had access to a computer, and did it purposely so that the photo could not be restored. Now why they would that I'm not sure, but it makes you wonder what was on the photo that meant someone would go out of their way to make sure it could never be seen again.
Perhaps she was looking at her abductor(s) who were now shooting the photo? or perhaps the uneasy expression caught by the camera is a transition to another facial expression. We don't know yet.
@@xxxnamkhaxxx I was always under the impression that she was looking like that because she realised they were lost
@@jumpcutfilms1958 That would make sense if they were truly lost, but the chances of getting lost on that trail are less than 5% if you ask me and that is a long stretch. Instead of turning back to Boquete they kept going deeper and deeper northwards. The only explanation I find is that someone forced them the wrong way. This to me is an abduction and unfortunately, the local authorities received orders from the highest echelons to destroy evidence and make the case look like an accident, "two young inexperienced hikers getting lost in the jungle". This to me is an evident abduction and possible murder which would have destroyed the president's desire for an undisturbed and growing tourism economy. This was a cover up, ordered by the president of Panama in 2014, President Ricardo Martinelli, who has spent time in a Panamanian jail for a fraction of his crimes involving money laundering, embezzlement, illegal tapping of communications, etc....
The uneasy expression could be because they where walking for about 4-5 hours? They got lost? They maybe didnt know that they had to turn back. There is an trip over there to an old volcano on that path you have to keep on walking.
That particular camera doesn't require a computer to permanently delete a photo.....right?
There's a photo of some locals with 2 girls that resemble Lisanne and Kris in a river. The bodies of the girls are covered by the water...which some claim could explain why their bras were in the backpack they found. The boys in this photo died under mysterious circumstances within a year...the same happened the cab driver that drove them to hiking trail. I believe that that there was foul play... maybe the girls were attacked in the river and tried to run...leaving the backpack and clothes behind and they got seriously injured... tried to contact the emergency services but they were found by their attackers, that disposed the bodies and buried them. When the $30.000 reward was offered they skimmed to use the backpack as a way to claim the money while they also unearthed some of the bones and the shoe in order to confuse the authorities... already willing to close the case as an accident. I don't think it was a hiking accident and I don't think that they died in the Pianista Hiking Trail...they were attacked and buried somewhere else in those mountains.
Yep, this is the photo: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-DM2-TOdHew4/XgpjJXq3IqI/AAAAAAAABKg/S9vYQrT7t4oJibaVFf__axtr4RKXby7VwCEwYBhgL/s320/brightened.jpg
But not everyone believes it to be either legit (photoshop some think) OR showing Kris and Lisanne. The lads are identified and are Osman Valenzuela and Murgas, both died soon after, in 2014 and 2015. I do believe we see Kris and Lisanne here, quite unmistakably, and the photo was declared legit by the Dutch forensics institute, but they believe some other women are pictured here.
There is one point in the events on april the 1st where everything goes from fine, to critical. That makes me think that something bad happened, that got out of the girl's hands. Could be an accident but I doubt it, because like the investigator said, they would have recorded it, somehow. I think after the last "nice photo", the possible crime occured (kidnapping, murder etc).
I always wondered about the photo of the hair, wich looks good and clean, what about it ? When was it taken, why does it still look so good if the have allegedly been a week in this rainforest... ?
And what about this photo where they pose with boys in the water, when was this taken ? Is it true that these 2 boys are dead by now ?
After all the informations I got today (I'm new to this case), I think there definitely happened a crime there, and we may never know by whom and why... Sad story anyway.
In France we had a case wich still remains unsolved after many decades, the death of 4 year old Gregory, wich was drowned in a river possibly by family members, but we never got to find out for sure. Crazy world.
Hi, yeh I tried to bring all the info about this case in one place, do check out my blog series if you have the time/interest, the swimming photo and all the people pictured in it being dead is also covered: koudekaas.blogspot.com/
and you said the murders use their cellphones during days calling emergency, or the girls use their phones during rapes, its has no sense to me
What photo of boys in the water? When was this photo taken? Does anyone have a link to the photo?
@@SHVideografie Hi, I posted them here: koudekaas.blogspot.com/2019/12/the-disappearance-of-kris-kremers-and_3.html
This is the photo: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-3PCVgV5nJEs/X4jLKWEsbFI/AAAAAAAADkc/KlIyQdzZdNwVtsochCtTQCMTkr0TT-IAgCLcBGAsYHQ/s768/o7Ld29p.jpeg
I think that they saw other guys coming , then after that they were trying to call emergency because I'm sure that were more than 2 guys they were big girls, the felt uncomfortable and they tried to call emergency. I'm pretty sure of this.
Evil Corruption in Panama. Killers is probably an authority or gang leader.
God saw and will judge the wicked
That deleted picture has a lot of answers !How could one out of 100 be permanently deleted
Exactly. And why only one photo, out of all their holiday photos (more than 100 actually) and none was deleted: oly this very important one, number 509.
@@scarletr.7753 The killer is playing with us. It has been suggested, that the pictures were photoshopped. Its possible its all a diversion tactic.
@@acb5245 I think so too. Wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that a narcissistic killer is highly enjoying that people all over the world try to make sense of those nonsensical night pictures. Or the 1000th head of Kris photo analysis.
the same reason why all witnesses who saw them after the hike, suddenly went silent and changed their statements. The photo would have proven that they returned from the hike. And that would have been the end of the accident theory.
Ik wens de familie heel veel liefde en kracht toe ♥️♥️♥️
They went no further than that stream pictured 508. I believe in the foul play theory.
Indeed. If they did go further than the stream in picture 508 then it would likely be because they were either chased or they were concerned about something. That's why no more pictures were taken that day. They were more worried about a third party hassling them.
@@lyndoncmp5751 If there was indeed a restaurant owned dog 🐕🦺 hiking together with Kris and Lisanne, then why wouldn't they use a piece of their own cloth , write down a brief and useful ' help ' message, and then tie it onto the dog's neck , foot or tail , and let that uninjured dog 🐕🦺return to it's master's restaurant and call for help.
This is easy and is a well known survival tactiic inside a forrest when someone cannot walk but his dog can.
That local dog should be very familiar of the trail and dog has good memory and very keen sense of smell. It has four legs and can run very fast. Dogs are faithful and loyal too ,
Why didn't Kris or Lisanne think of this commonly used tactic.
I am sorry about them !
That is one misleading graphic... The distance to the backpack -discovery site was huge.
You mean around 1:54? Yeh there is no scale indication and they also don't indicate how far to the right of the graphic the northern coastline is. So it does seem like the distances are smaller than they really are, indeed.
Keep up the good work skarlet thnks for carin 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
I believe in the photoshopping theory.
They have never been there and thus the search teams found nothing no matter how hard they've tried with how many sniffer dogs.
In fact, the head of the Dutch Rescue Team has made the same conclusion.
" Simply not there "
Wen the parents said they cudnt find the cave..let me tell you this..tour guide F wud know exactly where that cave was as hes an experienced guide and up there trekking all the time. He knows the place like the back of his hand. So why didn't he say to the parents that he knows where that picture was taken and he will show them the place?
Unfortunately none of the local tour guides have identified the spot where the night photos were taken during the past 8 years.. At least not publicly, and there is no matching photo evidence either. Granted, there aren't many identification points in those dark night pictures, but still.. a 100 photos of this placem but nobody apparently knows where it is. I wonder if the investigators were even making it a priority to look for that location. Which should have been high priority, to recreate the storyline
The more I read and ponder this case, the more I'm convinced there was foul play. There were a lot of resources at the women's disposal that were not utilized. 1) a digital camera automatically powers off when not in use allowing the battery to last a long time, so it could have been used for documentation purposes 2) it would have been easier to send out text messages than to attempt phone calls, text messages use very little data and less battery, and can be sent out under a weak signal 3) how did they get separated from the dog? the dog knew the way back and was able to return home without them. did the dog run off and in chasing it, lead the women astray?
Good points.. Lisanne was dreadfully homesick in the days before their disappearance, she really longed for her parents once she was in Boquete. That detail makes it even more unbelievable to me that all they apparently tried to call were 911 and 112. For such a long time, at least 11 days. Never even an attempt to call home. No draft messages, no video message (and indeed they had all the options for that, with a digital camera with plenty of battery), no photo of a message on the ground, made with paper or sticks or rocks. As for Blue the dog, we have only been told by its owners that Blue went with Kris and Lisanne, but out of all the photos we have now been able to see for ourselves of that hike, there is nowhere a sign of the dog... I seriously doubt he was with them, for that reason.
Regarding the text messages, I do not think they had international roaming turned on. They always used the Wifi at the school or at home, and they used whatsapp to text. I assume they most likely did not have international roaming turned on on their phones, which means they knew they wouldn’t be able to send a text even if there was phones reception. I don’t think they planned for being trapped in a mountainous rainforest, they were going to be in Boquete, volunteering at the school every day, so they were going to be able to use the school’s wifi all day.
@@conary77 That is your assumption, but the facts are that both Kris' parents and Lisanne's mother have said to journalists that they were in touch with Lisanne through whatsapp and SMS text messages while the girls were in Panama. There has been nothing said about them buying local prepaid sim cards. They simply paid quite a bit for international phone use. So what you say is 100% incorrect, sorry to say this. The fact the parents said explicitly in the media that they sent TEXT messages, sms messages, means your assumption cannot be correct.
@@scarletr.7753 What if the host family schemed to have the boyfriend ambush them in the jungle?
@@scarletr.7753 Them not sending text messages to their families for me is the biggest indication that there is foul play. I do think that those night photos is no longer them taking those pictures.
I'm from Belize central America& this is a shame on Panamanian authorities!! Maybe someone or something in their country they are hiding!! The truth will come out!!✌🙏🌎
They are murdered for no such reason by unidentified people in the jungle .. definitely by human
😢caninal tribe
The reporter was quite restrained in his thoughts and at certain points he was wrong.
One who injured doesn't go into the wild jungle to find a shorter path. You should be crazy to do that.
The fact that the last picture of Kris was taken at the creek doesn't mean that they continued their hike from there further into the woods and later tried to attempt the first emergency call even deeper from there. There's no evidence for that. I'm sure they were already in trouble when the last three pictures of Kris were taken and most likely not taken by Lisanne. Why would she have taken such pictures of Kris? And for a week after that, there are no pictures. It makes no sense unless it's because they were already in big trouble there. Kris' legs and shorts are muddy in the pictures. I think this is a very important detail. In one picture, she stands with his back to the camera. Is it believable that Lisanne was the photographer? Why would it have been like? And the picture about Kris front of a cave (?) speaks for itself. It was as if she had cried out. How can someone claim these to be normal pictures?
Agree, he is a well known crime reporter who always talks about what is and isn't logical (in his opinion), but he never traveled to Boquete, never walked that Pianista trail and has no real idea therefore what that trail is like. They never ventured on it before, they were only in Boquete for 4 days by then, it was later in the afternoon and to go off track, you'd need to go through bushes and overgrowth; who would do that with a mild injury? Not two young tourists, I agree. They may as well have turned around after photo 508 and walked back. Something may have happened to them away from the trail, or near the start of the trail, for all we know. Or indeed, they could already have met someone by the time those last daytime photos were taken, Kris isn't smiling anymore in those photos. The crime reporter is just guessing, there is no proof for anything really..
@@scarletr.7753 I saw an interesting point someone made regarding Kris not smiling.
They said that photo analysts find that some photos show signs of tampering. One of Kris’ breasts were smaller than the other and she left room for another human. This could suggest that someone was edited out of those pictures, possibly a suspect. As for the non-smiling, someone was either with them in or taking the picture, especially someone the girls didn’t like.
Ominous shit.
@@scarletr.7753 before I read more about the issues and the photos, I always thought by the time the last photos were taken they were already “kind of lost”, trying to find their way back, but still totally believing they would do so eventually and trying to keep up spirits enjoying the nature, pretending there was no tension or worry.
But after reading all and watching so many videos, I no longer think that’s the case. As apparently the trail was pretty straight forward up to the point. And they couldn’t have gotten lost before that.
@THISIS THEGIRL Wow
@@scarletr.7753 the deff made it to the top and smiled for those photo's, when you get to the top their is a rope if you will with a sign not to go beyond that point, however extreme hikers will go but it is mostly used by farmers who travel through that back side, so when you get to the top their is very little room and only one way back down or go over the rope to the dangerous trail , which we know they did from those photos , it is a visible trail if you will but a sign that says beware. The real question is what made them keep going , did they think let's go a little way and things went bad real fast , you can get lost very fast in the jungle , this case is baffling to me, however I share the unpopular idea that it was not the tour guide. He is a very old man, quite short, he could have been over powered by 2 girls in my opinion, he has been doing tours for over 25 plus years with a stellar record minus 1 bad review. It is not uncommon in Panama to show up where people are because this is how they make money and they want to make it and work with the expats and know all the airbnb's and a lot of them for side jobs do the gardening, pool cleaning etc... The backpack to me is the biggest clue foul play was involved and someone held onto it for all that time. In Panama the air and rain ruins your things, my back pack just using it to go to town there and bring back inside to my home after 5 weeks the zipper starts to rust and breakdown begins. their is no way that bag would not have been covered in dirt, mold, rust on zipper, mine get's so bad you get to a point you can't even open it anymore and half to oil your zipper on backpacks to keep them longer.
Its incredible tha tno one actually LOOKS at those pictures made by the camera and see the difference in quality to those taken at bocas...a huge difference in quality. And the terrible photoshopping that was made, actually distorting Lisanne...cmon.
It is an immense loss in quality indeed, in the hike photos.
Photoshop????
@@alexbetts4646 Probably.
@@acb5245 Very unlikely. There's no logical train of thought there. Why go through the painstaking process of altering photos just to put the camera back in the bag and plant the bag by the river for someone to find? Also why be so meticulous about photoshopping an image but then leave those weird night images on the camera without at least deleting them (which at least one other photo was deleted)? You're just leaving evidence behind, for what? To make it look like nothing happened? The easiest thing to do would be to dispose of the camera completely so no one ever found it. Going through that tedious process of doctoring photos, deleting others, but leaving other ones in tact, putting the camera back in the bag and planting the bag by the river so others can find and have some evidence to speculate over makes absolutely zero sense.
@@PantsofVance So what is the point of deleting picture 509, according to a logical train of thought? Picture 509 has been deleted permanently, its irretrivable. It cannot be recovered. Maybe the pictures are a diversion manuvre like the phone calls to give the illlusion, they were there. But an american witness and a restaurent owner in Panama, plus a resident living close to the Pianista trail - saw the girls get into a red car - after they returned from the Piansta trail. I think Henry Gonzales - son of Feliciano Gonzales - and Jorge Murga, hurt those girls. Feliciano helped covering it up. Maybe Plino Montenegro was involved aswell. But Los 5NDgang, were in the area. 8 young people in connection to this case have died, shortly after the girls disappearence. Including the taxi driver. Its about tying up loose ends.
The tour guide is responsible for this.
Been reading up on this case for weeks. Really on the fence about what happened.
But hearing the dad say there was nowhere to fall or potentially have an accident in between the last photo and the call to emergency service, makes me lean towards foul play - inconjuction with all the other ambiguous evidence such as the location of the bones, night time photos etc.
Really hope we can get some closure on this, I think somebody knows what happened.
Yeah, the more I think about those phone calls, and how abruptly they stop... foul play. I think they were in danger from a 3rd party and not an injury. Makes the night photos even more disturbing..
8 out of 10 gang members died ( including taxi driver) who did this horrible thing to this poor girls.
This seals it as murder
I remember reading about that tour guide, and some people mentioned that he was not trustworthy in their reviews on TripAdvisor about the tour company, warning tourists not to trust him as their tour guide???
Yes there have been a few negative reviews over time, of women who felt threatened by him. I cover them on my blog (www.koudekaas.blogspot.com)
What the hell happened to these poor girls? Somebody knows something!
Yes.
Don't turn arround, there was a murder, the killer still works there like a guide and was not Feliciano but, Feliciano knows who was, (Plinio Montenegro) does deserve investigated more deep.... Its all that I have to say... Gentlemen's
Скорее, да. Потому что девочки были очень ответственные. Наврядли они сами без помощи мужчины пошли бы по узкой тропе вглубь леса. Идти одним куда-то далеко - для девушек это страшно
A red pick up truck with 3 men were speeding up to trail head where a taxi driver had just dropped them off and he passed the red truck on his way down. The girls were already well on their way up the trail. They got to the top..laughing, smiling snapping happy photos...according to their pics they were there 15 min just enough time to let the 3 men from the red truck catch up!! They then basically forced them the other way when they wanted to go back...hence why u never see them looking happy again in pictures. RIP girls
Photoshopped the girls into the Pianista pic .. that’s messed up.
* PLEASE READ THIS *
I think they were attacked by someone
They got injured, and they ran away they tried to contact emergency but didn't connected. phone battery down and they hided , they had taken many photos afer some day at night they gave flash signal to something. That was their last use
NB : their camera recorded many photos ,later on investigation found that some photos deleted with help of pc, they dont have laptop, someone tried to unlock phone 77 times , they were killed and bones were dropped
First they dropped the bag
Then bones
Someone says it's HUMAN CANNIBALISM (eaten by human)
Still no actual conclusion regarding this murder were found
And they can't find how they died
We can hope some day with the use of technology they will find it
I think the night picture was taken by the murder, to make the police confused . Because there is any sense to have a picture of Kris with her hair on her face in order to not be able to see her face , because it would show that she was not alive anymore
Ah and The night pictures was taken day 8 of april... and they did put the wrong password at 5 april
Rip Peter R
Peter de KİNG❤🙏😔
What I don't understand is this. If they were attempting calls to emergency services, how is it that not once did they try and call their families? Only the emergency number was called. You'd think that even if you have no signal, you'd at least attempt to call people who care for you. One definitely died before the other. One had bleached bones whilst the other still had skin left on the bones that were found. The incorrect attempts at the phone pin were made by one of the girls - probably the one who survived. Desperately trying to see if she could get a signal on her friend's phone when hers wasn't succeeding.
Are you kidding me? Emergency calls are free calls. Did they have money on the phone? If I go to another country I only use wifi, when I have wifi I will call my family. The parents are all the way in an other continent of the world. There is no signal on the phone, perhaps not even money, why the heck would they try to call the family then? You dial emergency first if one of them had an accident or they got lost an tried to reach out for help by calling 112 not your mum and dad in an other part of the world.
@@WarriorBlood777 What a totally preposterous and completely detached from reality statement. What do many people on death row call out of for at the moment of their excutions? Their parents, and specifically their mothers. When you're in a desperate situation, you call the people you love, trust and who you know love you. You at least try and call. You at least try and maybe record a voice note or a video. It might've not sent, but the lack of trying is bizarre. I can only assume that you're unfortunately not close to your loved ones, to make such a bizarre statement.
@@WarriorBlood777 Well maybe correct what you said but it's still strange that they didn't as that dutch reporter said leave some message behind, some sort of goodbye message or information whats going on.
Why tf would I call family across the ocean? What would they do to help? And also, if my call doesn’t go through LOCALLY how tf would I call internationally?
@@recruitmentch Muppet, they were trying to conserve battery and whenever they had the phones on they called the emergency number because they were in danger and needed help, which their family couldn't do from continents away. They didn't want to waste battery. The real question is why it would be necessary to type in a PIN to do this, or why they didn't use one phone until it had run out, and then tell the other the PIN for theirs. Unless they had been separated. And presumably the camera had charge left.
Those poor parents look terrible.
Crime reporter de Vries was also killed by gunshot in july 2021. This strange case seems really under an evil spell.
Unfortunately Peter was murdered yes.. Was linked to his work in the Marengo trial crime process :(
That guide is very suspicious and would need further investigation and interrogation. Things don´t add aup..
This case always makes me sad and disappointed. God only knows what happened to them. If you want to know my opinion, I have no doubt that they were murdered, and whoever did it knows the jungle and how to get back , which means who lives in it or the guider, and I think that the dog is a lie and the dog was not with them at all. All the pictures that were taken at night are neither from kris nor Lisan. Check the picture that has kris' hair, I think. You can see a clear brown hair with kris' blonde hair, (watch that pic in the right bottom you will see the brown hair) as you know if this picture was taken by Lisan, I mean kris would be in front of her. ? How is it possible to see Lisan's brown hair on blonde hair if Kris is in the foreground!!!! But I will tell you how this could happen, this would only happen if kris and Lisan were lying on the ground with their heads next to each other, then there would be a possibility that we see Lisan's brown hair on kris' blond hair Which means the picture was taken by someone who tried to show it as if the picture taken by one of the girls to the other girl in front of her. The picture that was deleted, there is no doubt that it was a picture in which something appeared that no one can see it. The interesting thing is that the bag did not appear until after the reward was announced (correct me if that not true) 8 days and no video or some goodbye words?!! I don't buy that. I really feel sad for these two girls 😭
the fact that the phones were found together with the camera inside the bag is evidence enough to tell this was a foulplay )imo)
Mr F killed them
His body language is highly deceptive. But so is Phine Montenegro. They way Felicinao Gonzales inserts himself into the investigation............
All I can say is the guy who kill them is most likely familiar at that place no hard feelings
Foul Play,No Doubt.
Ik Weet Niet Waarom Maar Deze Zaak Blijft Me Bezighouden & De Onwetendheid Over Wat Er Met Jullie Is Gebeurd,Verschrikkelijk.
Rest Easy Kris And Lisanne.
That is NOT the same waterfall.. a rudimentary look at the rock placement/arrangements shows that.
Are you sure of that? Here are photo still comparisons:
One: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-fGJErcN6770/XQPFd7-AF0I/AAAAAAAAlYI/ArnHFreiiRcqyTMuIbz5bOYBsUCNX13kQCLcBGAs/s1600/Untitled%2Bcollage%2Bcopy.jpg
Two: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-l8qv18puezA/Xg1Gdei8KYI/AAAAAAAABWE/oFGCq1k0IWoiIkgM-sCT3M4MbFe9huSFgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/pjimage%2B%25281%2529.jpg
Three: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-PTMUXjfnn-k/XjiPvNeZ6-I/AAAAAAAABu4/ItQLreg7KoYbVDqq-wfyYJ6bEl3oARb6ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/PicsArt_01-21-07.21.03.png
The murderers can't be tourists for sure, which means...
I agree, I also think it were certain local people who were behind this
This explanation makes sense.
the most thing that i wanted to say WHO IS THE KILLER
Foul play was definately involved. Take a hard look at tour guide Feliciano Gonzales and Phine Montenegro.
You can't blame human beings for this
THERE IS NO JUSTICE IN THIS WORLD EVEN THE CASE OF THE FROG BOYS IS STILL MYSTERIES
When I look at these videos of Panama s jungle I start shivering quickly. How it is sounds -2 young, white, beautiful girls went deeply alone in the jungle hell? Have they just a bit of feeling which tells them to care about themselves to save their life's? Or they at the very begging decided to die and being raped? It's strange thing.... At least. I think they were acompanied
I don't support the idea of ladies this young going to travel this far. However I am pretty sure they were murdered. It's ridiculous that the police in Panama did not do a better research.
Maybe just maybe one of the girls hurt themselves a fall or a major accident happened , probably the other girl looked for help but got lost but if a accident happened why not go backwards? So many questions so little answers
IMO, this is a case of abduction-rape and murder. My main person-of-interest is the tour guide who they already know before the hike and the same person who discovered parts of their bone after 70 days.
Feliciano Gonzales is extremely dangerous and he fooled Kris parrents. Feliciano Gonzales and Phine Montenegro, has something to do with this crime. Felicinao´s son is the leader of the notorious Los 5 Gang.
I feel like the articles always overlook the photo that was deleted with a PC and the preserved skin that was found months later in great condition. How the bones are spread doesn't make any sense either. The youtuber "Peaked Interest" has made a great video about the case and potential suspects. I recommend you watch it. It's titled "Accident or Murder? What Happened to the Missing Dutch Girls". After watching that video I personally believe that the tour guide murdered them. But make that decision for yourself.
Hi, yes i already watched his video and implemented his findings in my blog series on this case, it is great work indeed. I agree, not enough attention for the found skin and such in the media.... It is mostly ignored, strangely enough..
100% they were murdered. I mean it is so obvious and everyone is turning a blind eye just for tourism sake. Just disgusting.
@@2msvalkyrie529 who said he was a flawless mastermind? The killer left it there no matter his identity. You're welcome, Watson.
@@2msvalkyrie529 'Inform yourself', as the smug generation Z puts it these days.
It would make sense that someone was with them. Why they didn’t end up on the camera roll, I have no idea
Probably told them that he/she doesn't want to be photographed and the girls respected his/her privacy. There is also the chance that this third person was the one that helped photographed some of these pics.
Usually tour guides are those type of people that ask not to be included in a picture or asked to take a picture for the customers.
the most logical theory to me is abduction by local tribe or human/organ traffic. its the only theory that connect everything together.
They were Murdered by a known serial killer.
Care to share his name?
*snorts*
Who is this serial killer(s)? Edwin Aguierre or Vega Moises?
The nightly photos prove nothing. The jungle is full of sounds at night, nature comes alive and sound carries for miles. It is completely dark, a darkness that we no longer know in the West. The sounds around must have terrified them. The flash with the camera must have served to scare off wild animals, just like with an open fire. After all, wild nocturnal animals avoid light. If something around them was moving in the bushes, they might also have been hoping to see what it was in a photo. The question, which potentially deadly predators are living in that area, has never been asked. Panthers? Jaguars? If one of them had a wound or was having her periods, the smell of blood can have been enough to attract one of them. Wounded animals are always the first victims, because vulnerable. Has one of them been bitten by a deadly snake? In the jungle you are lost when that happens.
The picture of the head was just to see what the (light) wound was. Apparently one of them had hit her head. Nothing unusual on a trip through the jungle between rocks.
When someone found the backpack, he may have decided to keep it and its contents. After all, people are very poor there. Later, when rumors started circulating about two missing girls, the finder who had the backpack at his home may have panicked and returned the backpack to where he had found it.
And the two bras in the backpack? A trip through the humid and hot jungle can be very unpleasant. Everything sticks to the body. This is probably why the girls during their trip took off their bra and put it away neatly
Yes, very true, the jungle at night is a cacophony of sound. It was pretty dark at night, initially even with a New Moon but later on the foliage and the trees and the lack of light pollution from nearby civilization will have made it seem incredibly dark as well. As for scaring off wild animals; there was not one sign of an animal (or a dog for that matter) on any of the photos. I see that they may have scared them off successfully then, but over three hours of making flash photos is both a long time and at the same time a short one, considering they must have feared animals at 10 pm and midnight as well, for instance. Or at 5 am. But no photos were taken then. And if that were the case, why did they only start this habit on the 8th night? How about the whole week prior, or the days after? I wrote a lot about this in my blog posts (koudekaas.blogspot.com/) specialists from the area did weigh in on the wild animal topic and have said that the sight of a jaguar or puma is incredibly rare there. It was 20 years ago that a cow was last killed by such a wild cat. They are rare and they avoid humans like the plague, for good reasons. Also, there is no evidence for wild animals. The bones that were found showed no microscopic animal claw or teeth marks. The backpack and the jeans shorts and the shoes that were found had no damage, no tearings, no blood, nothing. So without any actual evidence, the jaguar stories are just fairy-tales imo. Where do you see the wound in that night photo? Thousands of people have stared at that photo by now, nobody can point out an actual wound. Any hints of darkness under the hair is most likely the shadow effect of the flashlight. Again, ' apparently', but there is no actual evidence for this. As for the backpack, yeh I have heard that theory go round, especially on places like Reddit, but think about it; on April 5th there was already a $2500 reward, which was quickly increased to $30.000 and then to $40.000 for the golden tip. Locals have said that people live there from $10 a day, and the native people sometimes even from $1 a day. So what sort of an incentive must it have been to be able to receive $40.000? The locals knew about the disappearance as the guide has a finca in Alto Romero and has informed them, it were also the native people who helped find the bones. Nobody can keep up that they are some sort of Papua New Guinean tribes people, far away from civilization. There is only about 25 kilometers between Alto Romero and Boquete and they frequently go back and forth. It makes no sense to me therefore that someone would find that bag, hold onto it, then plant it again (??) for someone else to find (someone from Alto Romero) and to give away the potential for a life changing reward. The $83 were also not taken out of the bag after all. Anyway, we have completely different views on this case I think
In South America, they are called Pumas (Mountain Lions) and they rarely if ever attack humans.
I see three options: 1. They got an accident and got lost. 2. They got attacked by an animal (not likely because no bitemarks were found on their remains). 3. They got lost and bumped into someone who murdered them. For me option 1 and 3 are most likely.
And how about the option that they didn't get lost at all, and simply were followed on that one way loop trail by people with nefarious intentions? And that's why after photo 508 everything suddenly stops? Happens all the time in the world.
Why not send an SMS?