The Shooting Show - 17HMR vs 22LR: Which is best? Plus training a gundog from pup to peg
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
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In this week's episode of The Shooting Show, Mark Ripley puts the two most popular rimfire rifle calibres, the 22LR and the 17HMR, head to head to see which is better before taking his favourite one out rabbiting to see just what it’s capable of out in the field.
We then join Nick Ridley for a new series, as he trains his new working cocker spaniel “Twig” from a nine week old pup using the placeboard right through to their first foray into the shooting field. 
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Got both, both have their place as you say. Use the 22 for discrete jobs with an nv, the HMR was a game changer especially stretching the ranges. Honestly, prefer the HMR purely for the stopping power all be it louder and more costly to run. Good little video mark, thanks
I have both, they're both amazing at what they do and they're very different. I couldn't decide which I prefer.
I have to give the 22lr a thumbs up 👍 bought a 17hmr when they first came out for me too loud and on a windy night lamping rabbits 🐰 the bullet head was going all over the place happy with my 22lr CZ using Winchester sub-sonics
Will be watching with great intrest training that little cocker .
Love the training with the Pup 👌
Great show 👏 👍 thanks .
Agree with. Your. Analysis. The one seven. Is. Brilliant. On. Crows and. Rabbits.
I hunt squirrel almost exclusively. I’ve used a .22 for years. There was a period of time when a .17 was my go to. I found that at close range, the .17 would pass through with little damage. As the range increased, the amount of damage was unacceptable. I could only take headshots and at even moderate ranges, it would explode the head. Not fun to clean. I recently purchased a.17 Mach 2. It has the same bullet as the .17 with a less potent powder charge. I’m looking forward to seeing how it will fit into the mix.
Enjoyed that one👍
When I had my .22LR Brono it performed excellently out at 100 yards with Winchester 40gr subsonic and CCI Stringer , nice video
I actually normally use the winchesters but gave the Eley a go as they grouped slightly better at 50.
@@260rips yes you have to use which is producing the best accuracy out of your barrel , in mine Winchester 40gr 🥂 Cheers
I’ve gone the other way recently for shooting crows .22lr has become favoured again 1 shot with the 17hmr and everything within 500 yards is gone the problem is getting hold of 17hmr at the moment too the one thing i love about 17hmr is it’s lethality on foxes it’s certainly capable with a sensible shot
I use both the .22lr and the .17hmr and both in the same rifle (tikka t1x with 20” barrels) I love the little .22lr for rabbits close range but I do have to be honest if I don’t need the silence of the subsonic 22lr I will pick up the 17hmr everytime. It’s fair more accurate than the 22lr and the added power and vmax bullet is impressive. From my 20” barrel I get 2730fps with the Hornady 17gn vmax rounds and 1/2” group at 100 yards. I’ve taken hundreds of foxes with it and if I’m shooting under 150 yards I’ll take the hmr over a centrefire aswell.
And great video Mark yet again!
Try CCI TNT Green HP if in a lead-free situation.
Hey Rips! Your giving that bed cover on the hilux a hard time, I was waiting for it to collapse the way it was creaking haha!
The .22lr subsonic is silent with a moderator…A big win for me 🥇✅🇸🇪. Sorry for my school English
Great show, I have a cz 452 , might now be looking for a new addition to the gun safe, but the .22 is definitely staying.
I've never used a place board, but now might consider one with my next pup, apparently they are mad on them over the pond. Ps my 452 hates eley , winchester every time
Oddly I normally use winchesters but tried Eley for the video as they grouped slightly better at 50 m
Hi mark forgot to say subs work better in the 22 better than Hv rounds because subs are more predictable in flight Hv's break the supersonic window then destabilise coming back to subsonic 👍
Nowt new here. You must find the optimum ammunition for your 22LR. If you want to shoot more than rabbit in a field AND have something for the pot it's 22LR every time.
Mark, I see a T1x left hand 20" bbl UPR .17 HMR in your future. :-) Great vid.
the vibration from the bipod on the roof of the truck was louder than the shot lol
I don’t think the 22LR liked the Eley ammunition which has been the case with lots of 22LR’s using the 38gr Eley. I still have a brick of 40gr Eley and it’s under 1” at 100 yards
I always use Eley and never have a problem.
@@adl2005 There are different Eley rounds. Some perform better than others in some rifles. The Eley Target may be one of the ones with worse performance in my Tikka T1x and some other rifle according to others. Eley Force is a supersonic that works for me. Some of their more expensive subsonic also gives me 1 MOA groups at 100 yards.
Another Eley ammo or SK Standard Plus or other match grade ammo would likely have provided 1 MOA groups at 100 yards in the CZ 452. Most CZ and Tikka T1x 22LR rifles will be capable of 1 MOA groups at 100 yard if the right ammo for that rifle is used.
Hi Mark I feel you did the 22 an injustice My Bergara will shoot sub 1 moa at 100 yard with Sk match all day long best group at 212 yard was 11/2" last week witnessed by my mate with his 17 I shot sub 21/2" group at 257yard 👍
The 22 is a good round, I actually use a 22 over a hmr. I usually use winchester Ammo but found the Eley seemed to group tighter at 50 yards but didn’t seem to perform so well further out. Like you guys I struggled to get hold of various brands of ammunition and tried to stick to hunting ammunition rather than target Ammo. I also had about 3 days to put the video together to get it out on time so things were a little limited! 😆
(Yawn) My cheap Savage 93R17 GV in .17 HMR will shoot sub-MOA out to the 300 yard line "all day long" and it doesn't care what kind of CCI=manufactured ammo it gets fed -whether CCI, Federal, Hornady, or Remington branded. It doesn't care whether the projectile is FMJ, V-Max, or non-polymer-tipped hollow point, either.
It is, quite literally, the least-expensive rifle I've ever bought and yet it is, without question, one of the most accurate of any I've owned.
I live about 2 miles from a target shooting range with 660 yard max distance on the rifle firing lines. The 300 yard line is where I have the most personal fun with my cheap Savage rifle in .17 HMR, because I have to accurately judge wind speed and direction in order to get everything out of the rifle that it can deliver. I have as much fun doing that as I had in shooting my National Match AR-15 A2 at the 660 yard line.
I'm a hunter, and the extra speed of the .17 HMR translates to additional useful killing power, given that velocity is squared in energy calculation while projectile mass is not. I know from shooting rabbits with a .177 Webley Omega running under the UK limit at 11.5 foot pounds that it doesn't take much power to shoot through a rabbit's head, but I have a situation where there's 16,000 acres of public hunting land just an hour away from home that is loaded with wild pigs, but the area is restricted to shotguns shooting #4 or smaller shot or rimfire rifles and handguns, only. The .17 HMR has no problem killing pigs stone-cold dead. It has no problem killing coyotes, foxes, or bobcats stone-cold dead, either. I've shot goats with it, too, and it's like a bomb went off in their chest cavity. Pop and flop. .22 LR match ammo doesn't "pop and flop" goats like the .17 HMR does.
I shoot both but totally different rounds, that LR group Lol. My LR zero’d at 50m SK yellow, has a 2.3MRAD drop at 100m groups are more 1” 1.5” at 100m
LR is more fun and whisper quiet with a Wildcat Panther.
Wildcat Panther 17 on the HMR is awesome but will clear a field of rabbits around here.
If i could only keep one it would be the LR, brilliantly quiet, awesome fun and the only one used in comps at the local club, unless this stupid Lead ban (voluntary my arse) comes in then the LR will be massively affected as the non Lead in LR are worse than crap.
Nice to see a vid on two awesome and obtainable for newbee rounds.
We’ll done mark.
Lol... curve-ball.
I shoot both... but recently added a .22 WMR to the cabinet. I can shoot subs (45gr Winchesters) with typical .22 accuracy ay 50 - 70 meters, but can also drop in a .22 Hornady WMR and whack Foxes at 100 meters (sub moa).... one rifle... two uses.
It ain't as good as the hmr out past 100 meters and is three times the cost of the lr when shooting subs... but it a cracking combination gun.
You should have a play with one 👍
This is similar to the age old argument about which air rifle caliber is best .22 or .17 i always preferred the .177 because it is more accurate at distance and if more stopping power is required i would use flat heads or hollow points or a heavy pellet in .177 which are devastating at shorter range. Although i would say the biggest difference between the caliber is the person shooting the gun. 17HMR for me all day long.
I love both but that.17 is so deadly 👍🏻👍🏻
Fast but low energy.
Mark... you seem to have some naughty followers leaving comments 🥳🥳
Had 22lr for decades, Savages, Rugers, etc. and several 17HMRs in Savage rifles, for almost 10 years. 22LR has a rainbow trajectory, you zero it at 25y, it's harder to get predators at 100 yards, you zero at 50 or 75 yards, you start missing the squirrels at 30 yards. 17HMR shoots like a laser up to 125 yards, literally. That was a bad news for foxes around my area. It's loud but it can be managed very comfortably with a suppressor. Shooting for meat though, (rabbits or whatnots), it runs the meat, forced to go back to 22lr. Since I don't care anymore for meat, my 22lr have been rusting for more than 7 years.
Got both, hmr runs sweet as marks doing with his,
I never seen my rimmy drop more that 4.5in at 100yds,
40g 1050 fps, 60yd zero.
So to see that drop looks like the drop on a fac airgun at the same range and using pellets it don't shoot good,
Like to see the ammo used,
Both guns sound like a there on half power, only just hear the sonic crack on the hmr,
Bless if anybody like to try mine there welcome too.
thats why you use slugs not pellets when you shoot at that range with air rifles
@@coryb6722
Hi there, I got a vid on here hitting a shotgun cartilage at 90yds on 22 16g 12ft,
When the gun sweet and you mastered the drop no matter the power its good to use,
Used slugs, there where spot on too, but lost 150fps .
I to tight to run the gun at 900plus on them doing 30shots only eg air used, lol
Farming dna,
Vid on here using my old Ripley at 100yds doing a bunny on love mode, lol. ;)
@@764776 I’ve also shot at longer ranges with a 12ftlb air rifle and it can be very accurate. The video was made using purely hunting Ammo and in average wind conditions.
The sound of the shots were just as the camera mic picked them up and I actually amplified both equally as they were so quiet on the audio!
Fair shout mark. ;)
Main shout was the drop on the rimmy, no its not u, ;)
You no the speck on your tools etc, then see a video where ever, your head trying to work out why that doing that,
Great action when your in action as ever, ;) Al
I've been having great results with the 17 Mach 2 Has anyone else had any experience with this cartridge?
Good comparison here Mark, good job!
I have both, and have been shooting 22 ammo.( .22 Short, .22 Long & .22 Long Rifle ) ever since I was about 12 years old,..I am considerably beyond that age now, and I still do enjoy rimfire shooting, it's my favorite.
have the Tikka T1x in .22 and a CZ455 in .17HMR ( a bit of a reversal there perhaps ). I think the T1x is darn near impossible to beat, oh it can be matched, but I don't think, beaten. ( my biased opinion of course )
Thank you for taking the time for this entertaining 'show ( shoot ) and tell'. I do appreciate the work it takes to make a video like this.
Hi mark . Just been enjoying your venture back with the 17 HMR. I am just in the process of getting one and I was wondering if the silencer makes much change to the noise giving that the rounds are away above the sound barrier. Great shooting by the way.
Might as well compare a 22 to a 243. Both the 22 and the 17 have their advantages for different situations.
Indeed they do but in terms of rimfires, there is a lot of debate as to which is best overall. My intention was to highlight that both have advantages and disadvantages 😉
We are not allowed moderators in West Oz so the .22 is often the rifle of choice. Plus if hunting rabbits for dinner it is a much better rifle.
I'm in NY and you can't walk 5ft without hitting a tree or hill so it's .22lr for me.
The 22 is better if you’re hunting dinner, as it’s less destructive. The destructive power of the 17 is also to do with bullet design.
The 22 is a must for people who want to learn to shoot. Not only is it cheaper, but people need to learn windage, bullet drop etc…which with the 17 you don’t need to so much. I feel like most new shooters are only learning to pull a trigger, and don’t really know what its all about.
17 for pest control all the way though.
Head shot no meat dam
@@garyturner6194 not always possible in the forest
also 17mach2 is a great round. hmr is devastating on bunnies.
Have a look at the eco speed 22lr amo.
.17 all day no comparison
Hi mark you mentioned the cci stinger has a soft nose, know there higher velocity but does this reduce the ricochet by a lot. Scares the life out of me the wizzing noise. Great video by the way 👍
Thank you 👍 to be honest I don’t think they are all much the same! You could try the segmented ones that split into about 3 bits?
Would you use HMR on sensible range Fox?
The biggest issue IRO HMR is production issues - specifically split necks. I have over 50 squibs and that's simply by rotating a thumb nail round the necks. Pre checking HMR rounds can save you a lot of grief and a damaged gun. I had 2 LR's and 2 HMR's (originally dedicated day night rigs) but sold the .22's primarily due to the high ricochet risk. Many argue the HMR does ricochet. I can only recall 1 definite HMR doing whizz. I now use an FAC FX impact to replace what the .22's used to do. I doubt I will get a .22LR again
I don’t have an fac but from owning an air rifle know about the upcoming lead ban so the 17 is a no brainier especially at the moment as no viable replacement for lead has been found for subsonic calibres which seem to be the ones that suffer from non lead
If a complete ban comes in then I think the hmr will also be in trouble trying to get it to shoot accurately with non toxic Ammo 😒
I heard an argument to keep lead for Rimfire 22 and air rifles as the pellet and bullets don't disintegrate where as the HMR does but think an out right ban will happen but maybe clubs and things like the Olympics might be able argue for .22 and air rifles in closed clubs
@@260rips, CCI TNT Green HP 16gr all-copper is accurate, and no bit of plastic in the meat.
With rifle would u recommend for mud jacks deer and rabbit?
Best thing you can do with a can of Vimto
What’s the mess on the rabbit ?
Hi Mark can i ask what you think of sightmark wraith does it need an additional Ir illuminator and what model u are using Thanks
Yes it’s excellent, I have both the hd and 4k ultra models! Yes to get the best from it, like any nv scope, a good aftermarket illuminator will make all the difference 😉
O love both , but The .17 HMR is very accurate. For distances above 80 mts , no chances for The .22 LR .
You say the 17HMR is much louder than the 22LR, but how much is that? Does anyone have a number in decibels?
I'm looking at non-toxic (supersonic) ammo, and I see that in the .22LR caliber, that would probably be a 24gr at 1706FPS, while the 17HMR shoots 15.5 gr at 2550 FPS. I reckon this much lighter load makes it safer in case of a miss while shooting at a perched grouse (anything under 30gr has very little kinetic energy left at maximum range when shot from a large enough angle), though I also want to avoid needlessly loud ammo for my ears as well as my dog's. Though I reckon both are probably way less loud than my 12 gauge anyways. Would love some decibel estimates.
10:53 what tripod and rifle clamp is Mark using there please?
The tripod it’s a Rekon tripod and pig saddle from scott country international 👍
looking at this, would not the 17HCR, destruct more, meaning the explosion on a Rabbits Head be more broke up?+The info is good, my grandson is looking at using 17 HCR, myself stick will 7.62 and have fired that in the last 45 years, ahah, or my old trusty 12 bore.+
hmr hands down… (when the hornady ammo is not cracking on the neck)
And the 17 Hornet ?
How can you compare one long barrel to a short barrel? Not a good comparison.
Hi mark on the .17 hmr which barrel length do you thinks best
I have a 16” t1x in 17hmr and can head shoot rabbits out to 100 quite comfortably. Great to carry round in the truck.
The short 16” barrel on the test model shot well and made for a nice compact rifle 👍
What 17 hmr ammo are u using
سلام ممنون از برنامه شما ولی زبان شما متوجه نمی شوم ولی لذت میبرم خسته نباشید ولی در اینجا که هستم تفنگ ساچمه ای کالیبر 22 ممنوع است چه برسد به گلوله زن ونم توانیم ساچمه ای داشته باشیم با این قیمتها مرسی
I have both too but also the .22WMR which sends 30gn @ 2100fps. Sits nicely between the two.Disappointing that no reference made to different rifles preferring different ammo. My.22 LR will shoot sub moa at 100m with Eley subs. #Theshootingshow
3 pound here in the US
I don't think anyone would ever say a 22 has the range or velocity that the 17 has. But if I could only have one it would be the .22 all day long.
That is a very poor group at 100 yds for a CZ452 using any 22 LR SV ammo. If the HV ammo can out perform the SV; you either need to find better SV ammo for that rifle or do some maintenance on it.
Like everyone else I was very limited on Ammo I could source for this video and I was also trying to stick to using hunting Ammo rather than target 🤷🏻♂️
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i love Vimto
17 hmr 100% is the best
That can exploded not imploded
Eley contact subs round nose in 42g .22LR are far superior to 38g easily kill crows at 100 yards. Choice of ammo to suit the rifle is critical in all .22LRs.
Indeed it is, I have tried several as this is my own 22. Winchester seem to shoot pretty well although the eley grouped slightly tighter at 50 m. I also tried to stick to just hunting Ammo and like you guys I was limited as to what I could get hold of from my local gunshops!
Not surprised by the crap group with the new Eleys, they've ruined an excellent round! The old green box Eley Subsonic Extras were far superior, going into sub inch @ 100yds with my old CZ452 Varmint! ( wind free days of course)
What did Eley change up?
@@nwmacguy certainly the bullet weight from 40 to 38gr.... don't know about the powder or primer compound.
I'm not the only one to notice the difference when you look at the disgruntled comments on many forums.
At 50yds they're ok, at 100 they go to pot.
Both guns got their jobs in the field, I would prefer the .22 as cheaper to run also not as loud as the .17 also I have killed foxes over a 100 yards using sub sonics also many types of ammo should be tried with the rifle as some guns are more accurate with certain makes
I have a cheap ruger precision and a vortex diamondback 4x16 and from 100 yards I’m in a 2-3” circle. I don’t think your gun was liking that ammo.
I don't think it was a fair comparison. You used sub sonic .22 which made it just barely better than an air gun. With no more velocity than that, the wind blows it around a lot more. Go up to regular ammo and give it a comparison. I still want a .17 though.
I used both subsonic and hv Ammo in the 22 if you watch closely. You will also notice I mention the velocity as well over 100 ftlb of energy which is considerably more powerful than a 12ftlb air rifle!
One of the biggest advantages of the 22 is the fact that it is quiet and you need subsonic Ammo to achieve this 🤷🏻♂️
"barely better than an air gun" yeah its only like 8 times the power no big deal.
@@WayStedYou I guess you can't understand hyperbole or sarcasm.
22 lr has been around since 1887 not the 1870s the .22 long was 1871
Should have used a 22mag in comparison not 22lr
🎯👍🏻 🐴❤️🤠🇨🇱✌🏻😎
This comparison of two favourite calibres,.22 & .17hmr, is now a little academic given that governments are cancelling the production of lead bullets for all calibres! The results as we now understand, is an unmitigated disaster. Manufacturers are using copper and other alloys to replace lead with a much less effective metal; Boosting the charges to speed-up bullets with negative effects. These effects are lack of consistency in accuracy and an increase on the report from the biggest charges in these new cartridges. Simply a disaster, which is exactly as designed! You may as well surrender your guns now; or, start making your own lead bullets!
Stupid comparison both got different applications
Yet both are rimfires and often used for the same pest species. In Britain most people use one or the other for rabbit or small pests so often shooters will choose between these two.
@@260rips one can be semi auto, one is noisy, one cost 3 times more to feed than the other!
I see this guy favors 17hmr more he likes it much ,Not a fair one
22lr still king never got out of class and availability ,
17hmr dying breed.