i personally haven't had any issues with oil pressure drops. Installed a oil pressure gauge to monitor. Take it to the track 3x / year and its used as my stock daily. Good presentation.
@@fearlessknight1343 Glad to hear it 👏🏽 For most that do go to the track casually may not see those conditions. For the extreme case that it does, typically for a split second or so the occurrences are above 5k rpms in a high G turn. Shifting early does help avoid that as well. Keep enjoying your car and I appreciate the kind words 😃
Watch the "Driver's paddock" hour long video on GR86/BRZ oil starvation. They did empirical testing with data on a stock brz and even bought a FA24 block to do outside testing. They made a lot of great and well informed points in the video. One surprising take was that they think adding an oil cooler is doing more harm than good to oil pressure. Whatever pressure you get back from lower temps is being mitigated by the oil pump having to work extra hard to pump through the additional thin piping in the radiator and generally more distance the oil has to travel.
@@jay18394 Agreed 👍🏽 I’ve watched it and it’s a well informed video. I appreciate that they had a piece of the short block to show. I referenced them among others that have and continue to pull track data on the topic, along with being test mules for prototype oil pans. GR Cup would be the most extreme and extensive among them as they found that a robust cooling system is necessary, but it takes the proper balance between components to get it right. Keep in mind, they’re required to run factory sealed engines in spec race cars and must work with what they’re given.
@@shift__robinson ah didn't see the reference. I totally agree with you, and the GR Cup people are definitely smarter than me and probably did a lot of research to come to that conclusion. However, I think their use case is different from 80% of the people taking their twins to the track. The GR Cup cars run 10/10th every lap for 60 minutes every race. My local track day sessions are 20 minutes long, spread through the day. I can thermally manage a 20 minute session so the oil temp doesn't go above 240 F, especially with one cool down lap in the middle. In this case, I would want higher oil pressure with less flow interference as temp is less of an issue. If you are running 60 minute sessions full out, which is pretty rare for casual track days, I think getting an oil cooler is a no brainer.
@@jay18394 No problem. I’m sure when you combine a team of bright minds, you can find nearly any solution. Despite being a 2 year old series, they have yet to blow an engine outside of user error. I think your environment and driving conditions can play a vital role in whether an oil cooler is necessary for your application. Out in California where I live, the tracks in the desert climates can get up to some high heat, where having to manage temperatures would be a challenge.
I will make probably make a follow up to this video to add to this information as I track my car regularly and could offer a different perspective. All points are valid that you made I just want to help spread the word so that people don’t have reservations about getting the car. Also nostreetracing86 helped with a lot of that research as well. Great Video!!!
@@iManual6peed Yes please! I feel the same way about sharing the knowledge with the community. I’m keeping an eye on Verus Engineering as I believe the larger capacity oil pan can be a promising solution for keeping more oil at the pick up. I’ll look into them as well, thank you for sharing and I appreciate the support and feedback 🙌🏽
Super useful video! Thanks for making this! For those looking for more information particularly how an Accusump works, we've made some videos on how it works, and it affects things on track.
@@AnsixAuto Thank you and anytime! I watched your videos and it inspired me to share the data you’ve collected with that Accusump. I’m glad you and others are striving to find alternative solutions 🤙🏽
Track tip with an oil cooler: when you see the checkered flag, press your Max AC button to force both cooling fans on and you'll likely see a 20+ degree drop in oil temp before you reach the paddock
I see that kind of drop with just the factory oil to water cooler. I'm usually like 265 at full send, and 235 by the end of my cooldown lap. But I still need to get a real oil cooler.
@@grippgoat 💯! As that checkered flag waves, taking that time to do a proper cool down lap benefits all components of the car. Sometimes even after cool down, I see others pace slowly in the pit area just to get a little more cooling time.
@@AKidOnARoof314 My pleasure! The 1st gen may not suffer as much with oil pressure but at least you can apply much of it to the FA20. Sounds sick 🫡 which kit are you running?
@@shift__robinson running an edelbrock supercharger @10 lbs of boost, jackson racing oil cooler, radium oil catch cans, & PLM unequal length header. i love it to pieces lol
I will also add that the edelbrock e-force has 2 primary drawbacks. 1 being the coolant reservoir (plastic crap- leaked on me) got one fabricated from metal by my tuner as a replacement. #2 being the bypass valve replacement, it requires taking the entire supercharger off of the car every 40k miles
@@AKidOnARoof314 That’s a sweet setup! I bet she moves! Metal is always a good alternative when it comes to the coolant reservoir. Dang, every 40k? If it’s a weekend car, maybe it wouldn’t be as frequent. Can that bypass valve be upgraded?
I am currently in the process of installing an Accusump onto my GR86. It is positive pressure, not vacuum that forces oil back into the engine block. It is a chamber with a free floating piston inside. There is pressurized air on one side and oil in the other. When the valve is opened, usually when the ignition or a switch is turned on. This opens the oil side up to oil galleys inside the block. The positive pressure of the oil in the galleys will push oil into the Accusump until equilibrium is reached. If the oil pressure inside the block drops, the air pressure on the other side of the piston will push oil back into the engine and maintain pressure. One other advantage of the Accusump is getting the oil pressure up before the engine starts rotating. If you open up the valve before the engine starts to turn over, oil will flow into the oil galleys and start lubricating. This is even more important in the GR86/BRZ engines as the oil filter is on top the engine and empty when you start the engine cold. Oil needs to be pumped out of the pan, into the filter, and fill the filter before the crank sees any oil pressure. Most engine wear occurs during startup. My guess is that one might double the lifespan of the engine if it begins most of its cold starts having oil pressure in the crankcase before rotation begins. I’m no expert here, but I’m confused with the whole RTV repair thing. I understand that some people have had issues with RTV collecting in the oil pump intake. I can see why that might be a problem. The solution for most is to remove the oil pan, clean up all the RTV and… reapply RTV to the oil pan. I’m guessing Subaru uses robots to apply the RTV, and they have done this for quite a while. I would imagine a company with many engineers that are working on using the best amount of RTV to make a seal would be better at it then anyone reading this right now. Let’s say there is a 2% chance the Subaru robots mess up and put the wrong amount of RTV. That gives each of us a similar chance to have RTV collecting in the oil pump intake. If you know you have this issue, it might be a good idea to drop the oil pan and fix it. If you don’t know, you are just looking around. If you drop the oil pan and you don’t have the RTV issue, you have to reinstall the oil pan. How do you do that? By using RTV. So a person who does not have the same expertise as the engineers, who is working on a surface that will have remnants of oil and RTV on the surface, upside down, with low light; is reinstalling the oil pan with RTV. With that criteria, I would give the repair a 4% or higher of later having RTV collecting in the oil intake. So unless you can find a way to fix the issue and not recreate the circumstances of the issue, you are stuck with dropping the oil pan periodically and inspecting and removing RTV from the oil pump. The only real solution I’ve seen to this mess is to either leave it alone and hope of the best; Or replace your OEM oil pan with Ansix Auto oil pan. That pan will allow you to inspect and remove any RTV without having to reapply RTV each time you do. Just my 2¢. This post was not sponsored by Ansix Auto.
@@KernelFault Glad to hear you’ll be using an Accusump kit soon. You’re correct, I got the verbiage mixed up. Thanks for clarifying. I can see how it could be beneficial for daily driving, especially during cold weather start ups. The simple answer to the RTV cause is during assembly it was applied in excess to where extra bits inside the pan after being sandwiched together would break off over time. More than likely assembled by robots where calibrations may have been off. The solution is to use significantly less RTV. I don’t believe Subaru uses an independent gasket in between the pan and block, just the sealant. While the pan is down and excess RTV is removed, some people install screens on the oil pick up tube to block it out. There are Subaru specialty shops that are very familiar and have the process down, while installing baffles and/or larger capacity pans. Sponsored or not, that was great information 🙂 Thank you for sharing!
It’s not a 2% chance of RTV collecting, I believe it would be the inverse! (a 2% chance of the oil intake being RTV free). There’s a mechanic on RUclips that has documented about twenty something oil pan drops and it’s just a given that loose RTV will exist.
@@KernelFault I agree with them 💯! The formula is simple and it works. It reminds me of the earlier 90’s sports cars with the light weight, go kart like experience.
Good summary, and can provide the subaru documentation you reference noting 40W oil is OK for more extreme conditions? I've heard the BRZs in Japan note 5-w30 is OK, though my local Dealer is clueless here (and just says 0-20w). much conflicting info on this viscosity topic! Thank you
@@emerinomarchetti6456 Thank you! It was a factory service manual by Subaru Japan translated to English that I found online years ago. Although, there are plenty of articles with data to support the applications of viscosity & temperatures. The beauty of it is, no matter what engine it is, the information of oil analysis applies to all. Dealerships unfortunately are not a reliable source, they vary as they are a franchised business. Also, the knowledge they understand and learn about service, is a very different application from motorsports. It’s hard to find raw data and practical application in the same spaces. I would recommend looking at this article as it helps paint a picture as to what GR Cup does for their spec race cars on these factory engines: 900brz.com/posts/gr-cup-reliability?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2LfFRidNQvk2WJ7nHtHxrF1rjdoCijAP52k0sTP2mKGRMTNZwtYCIjbDU_aem_jxaw2nR7d7yq2LRamNYfEg
I've read the other listed comments and wish to give positive advice that I've given before on this subject to individuals, which includes 009. My brother owns a FRS and we have discussed the problems that occur under track, turbo/super charged applications. I watched 009's data gathering and watched as an engine was dying from oil starvation, testing a vertical baffle which failed on track. How to visualize oil movement in an engine oil pan with G forces is, put some water in a pan and move it left, right, forward & back. How much oil is remaining in the oil pan when it is being pumped out and where is the oil placement now @ high RPM's ? The oil is in the heads (cam covers) and can't return to the sump from G forces and inadequate returns; all boxer engines have to deal with this issue. Oil temperature/pressure/viscosity is helped by using 5W40 (hydrodynamic wedge) and leave the oil to water heat exchanger in place, as it help to get the oil up to running temperature sooner and the stabilizes it. The sump needs to be truncated, properly baffled, deeper with additional returns from the heads. I own a 2nd gen Cayman S as the engine in the 1st gen had numerous design problems, beyond the oiling issues. Look into the M96 & M97 engine design vs the MA1/9a1 engine designs. The 9a1 has a truncated integrated dry sump with a computer variable oil pressure pump/4 port scavenge pump @ each corner of both heads. This engine is also used in the GT3 & GT2 with a sump change to direct the oil to a separate oil tank for endurance track racing applications. Hope this helps someone!
@@warrenlucier5796 Great information and thank you for sharing! I’ve learned that when these engines are boosted, the problem of oil starvation only exaggerates. The oil return isn’t where it should be, and once it surpasses the 300hp + range, that’s when it becomes dangerous under these track conditions. Porsche and others you mentioned learned the benefits of dry sump oiling systems years ago. I think as a collective, we’re getting closer to a practical solution, hopefully in the near future. I’ll drop this article here that shares what GR Cup is doing with their spec cars: 900brz.com/posts/gr-cup-reliability?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2LfFRidNQvk2WJ7nHtHxrF1rjdoCijAP52k0sTP2mKGRMTNZwtYCIjbDU_aem_jxaw2nR7d7yq2LRamNYfEg
@@shift__robinson Found that quite interesting. They may be required to use the factory oil sump by rules, but I find the baffle to be helpful if this requirement is in fact correct. If rules would allow a different header design to give more room in the area of the sump, then a truncated, baffled, higher capacity design would potentially alleviate the oil starvation. May need to run additional drains from the heads with de-aeration chambers. like Porsche and others do. There are other thing to help with oil control, but the one I mention is the 1st one to do.
@@warrenlucier5796 I believe it is part of their requirements. I’m keeping an eye out for Verus Engineering’s prototype large capacity baffled oil pan for the FA24, it seems very promising. If you’d like to check it out: ruclips.net/video/kVEpMu6YHeo/видео.htmlsi=UFCMVxPSfypOnAxN
@@stevenyerry2209 I found it online years ago. It was a factory service manual made 20+ years ago in japan, translated to English. It covered all types of boxer engines at the time. I wish now that I had saved the link.
I feel like you should mention the power loss due to higher viscosity oils, I once changed to 5W30 and I can feel drastic power loss immediately. I drive my car hard and what I do is changing my oil more often, for example, an oil change per track day to keep my car running smooth. Did 20k miles in my GR86 and I only use 0w20. I do a lot of touges and some trackways and 0w20 held up well. I've seen around 250ish oil temps during the sessions and I just back off slightly to let the car cool down a little bit and go on. For someone who just daily drive the car and aim for fuel economy, there's nothing wrong with 0w20 and oil pressure does not matter too much.
@@qujacky8072 You’re right about power loss, I feel it most in the lower rpms during stop and go. The overfill impacts that most due to the boxer engine being an open deck design and oil interference with the reciprocating internal components. The trade off for what viscosity does for protection over power loss is worth it to the frequent track goers. It’s great maintenance practice to change your oil frequently for consistent track days, especially for your transmission and differential. They’ll thank you in longevity. The only problem with running 20 weight in that setting, once your oil temperature surpasses 220+ degrees, it becomes a 10 weight which can need dangerous. Plus oil pressure drops become even more prominent with thinner viscosity. At the very least you should consider a 30 weight plus overfill for those conditions. If you haven’t watched it yet, I’d recommend this for a break down of data collection related to pressure drop conditions: ruclips.net/video/4Jk5WTWoqt4/видео.htmlsi=rnuDz-HjR2O3CUs6 Also in my description, I shared other links that explain the fa24d further in depth and what GR Cup has been doing successfully.
There is a simple order to go about this. If you are tracking the car, you need to accept some increased wear, the engine is not going to last as long as it would if you only drove it on the street. With that being said: You should consider an overfill. There are currently no high capacity pans available for this car yet (unless you got super lucky with a pre-prod. one), but you can squeeze maybe .5-.7L more oil in before you really start causing problems. The trade-off is a FILTHY intake and PCV system, all that extra oil is gonna mess shit up eventually, but it's better than a new engine. You need to watch your oil temps. Take it to the track on 0w20 and see what temps you reach. If you're above 230f, you need to switch to a 5w30 or 40 weight oil depending on the severity. Never continue to push the car when the oil is getting this hot though. Everyone's skill level is different so you may find you just don't need the heavier weight oil, yet. THIS IS THE FURTHEST YOU SHOULD GO FOR A CAR THAT YOU STILL WANT TO DRIVE ON THE STREET, if you want to go further... Oil cooler, you're gonna see a pretty serious pressure drop just from running one, but if you can't keep your oil temps under control it's a necessary evil. This is not good for street duty even with a thermostatic plate because of the amount of wear you're introducing. You're also introducing another failure point to the system. Accusump, the great thing about this is it solves a lot of problems. Higher oil capacity means you don't see as high of oil temps, and oil pressure is regulated so no more pressure drops. But these are not good for the street because of the added failure point and longer cold start times. These systems also require regular maintenance and often leak. If you're building a dedicated track car though this should be mod #1 after heavier weight oil. Even with all this, when you're driving on the street you should switch back to 0w20 for most climates or 5w30 for spirited driving in warm climates to maximize engine life. Subaru was right to spec this because it really is best for everyday driving. Frankly any other "fixes" for this problem are snake oil and not worth pursuing, this includes lower oil pan baffles and RTV. The only mod that is worth waiting for is the high capacity oil pan. Otherwise until then 99% will be served best by a heavier weight oil for the track and a slight overfill. The best part about this practice is it doesn't void your warranty so if you do see a failure, you can still go back to Toyota/Subaru and get a new one.
This is great information, I appreciate you sharing! A couple notes to add: If you'd like to re-route the excess oil going into the intake, an oil catch can will be your friend. For some of the colder climate folks, they may not need an oil cooler if their car is dual purpose as it may "over cool" as you mentioned. Some companies make covers for their oil coolers. There are accusump kits with a shut off valve, so if you street drive it, it'll prevent circulating from the tank. Ansix Auto uses this setup. There are some oil baffles that help, but not all are created equal. 86cup created a version that works for their high track demands. 900 BRZ has tested and captured some revisions. I'm looking forward to seeing who releases their large capacity oil pans first, between Verus Engineering and Driver's Paddock.
@@shift__robinson Good points, I didn't realize accusumps with shutoff valves were available now. That's very helpful and makes it an obvious choice. The reason I suggested to stop at an overfill and heavier weight oil is because there's value in maintaining the factory warranty for a daily driver. Per SavageGeese, Toyota has committed to covering their cars under warranty at track days and HPDE. You can go crazy with all these modifications, but be realistic, a factory warranty and a brand new engine is better. Don't risk voiding your warranty for only marginal improvements. I hazard against oil catch cans because they require vacuum to work and if cheaply built will basically stop your PCV system from functioning. Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed. This pretty much goes for any street car though, not just the GR86. Oil coolers are really a last ditch effort to protect the engine from excessive oil temps. They do seriously drop oil pressure by >10PSI on this engine and do more harm than good for daily driving. The first step is a heavier weight oil, then consider an oil cooler. Regarding oil baffles, I've yet to see anything credible to indicate that a lower oil baffle is helpful at all with pressure drops. There is only one baffle that I would trust to work. It was a one off by Revolution Japan (the rotary builder/tuner), it's a horizontal baffle installed in the upper oil pan. It's a complex design with moving parts and limited lifespan. The install involves more or less an engine rebuild. I don't believe that the GR cup baffle is doing anything productive. I strongly recommend everyone to check out SavageGeese's early video series on his GT86, he did a lot of testing with his and has serious unspoken knowledge on these topics. Here's the post about the Revolution oil baffle: www.reddit.com/r/GR86/comments/14l3ooa/engine_oil_pressure_solution/
@@Ark7760 It’s helpful to regulate off/on street driving. There is accusump data that shows minimal psi drops in the 30 psi range. Much better than the more frequent high teens/low 20’s. I’ll share that link to his kit and track video here: ansixauto.com/2022-brz-gr86-accusump-Installation-Kit ruclips.net/video/3YijBO_gS7Y/видео.html That’s understandable. There are some individuals that have shared while going through the warranty process, the manufacturer would have to prove that the specified part contributed to engine failure, or caused oil pressure to drop. With that said, there are many parts that don’t void warranty, let alone related to the issue. Dealerships will say otherwise but this information came from corporate. Just seeing the recent engine failure lawsuit news surface, I’m curious what the circumstances are per individual. Agreed! If you buy a proper kit still incorporating vacuum from the manifold, there are kits available that would function like oem with an added reservoir. I would say yes and no, depending on the application. In your reference to stock power, street driven cars, I think it’s possible in the right conditions with a very meticulous owner. Those that go boost may have to consider that for themselves with the added stresses and heat, but let’s stay away from that for now. I’ll use myself as an example; I drive my car leisurely and I plan to participate in a local time attack group. Most of my time spent driving is above 4k rpms. I typically see 2 seasons all year round, mostly in the warmer temperatures. I fully warm up my cars before driving, and cruise an additional 10 minutes for the drivetrain to warm up, before hard driving. I would still commute to and from the track as it’s still a street car, so I could get away with a cover for the oil cooler combined with a thermostic sandwhich plate. I’ve done this with previous builds to keep operating temps up on the highway, then remove the oil cooler cover during track prep. With that said, considering warmer weather conditions of 20 minute sessions while chasing time, the cooler would be worth it. Temperatures and viscosity do directly affect oil pressure drops, the higher the temperature the lower the drop and higher viscosity helps from dropping as low. If you’re an avid track goer and plan on driving in extreme conditions, I would say the trade off could make sense combining thicker viscosity & overfill, but not limited to for track driving. However, I would agree that for maybe most owners that do daily drive, it isn’t applicable. On the market as far as baffles go, I’m not 100% either. I’ve only seen data with prototypes. The problem lies in the oil returning back to the pan, which would highly depend on the opening designs on the plate. We also have to worry about oil scavenging, more oil being pumped out versus draining back from the heads and timing cover. I mentioned 86cup because they got their design from Larry Chen’s SEMA built 86. The group acquired the design and most likely made some tweaks. They have yet to have any catastrophic failures during their race season outside of user error. They do have really robust cooling systems, they use most combined methods mentioned, and are required to run factory sealed engines. Between 900brz and Ansix Auto, with their mix and matched combinations they’re able to accomplish track days without catastrophic failure thus far. I like the concept of Revolution Japans baffling. It’s unfortunate that you do have to open the engine up. Ansix has something similar but for the lower portion of the pan. I like SavageGeese, they make great videos. Drivers Paddock did a great job recently on an FA24D breakdown as well, they went as far as removing the upper oil pan area to display for context along with track scenario data details. Another good watch if you have the time: ruclips.net/video/4CidHbClNHY/видео.html Thank you for sharing the article 👍🏽 I think the solution for 99% of the psi drop is coming in the near future. Anxiously waiting over here for a large capacity pan to be available.
While i do agree all of this helps, overfill and bigger pan being the best to actually mitigate the issue. Some are just band aid like an oil cooler (bandaid for this issue, it solves a slight different problem). Oil baffle doesn't seem much of use. Accusump is unnecessarily complicated. RTV cleanup on its own is waste of money. Quoting nostreetracing86 "STI team did an oil path analysis on their FA24DIT engine on their WRX endurance race car and part of their improvement is to add a small vertical baffle to the timing chain cover to help oil return back to the pan when car transit from left turn to right turn." Given that the real OEM solution would be to do the same, I wish Subaru did it.
@@ruturaj47 I agree. Doing the best with what’s available at least helps keep catastrophic failure from happening. I wouldn’t consider RTV clean up to be a waste of money. It still impedes flow at the pickup. It may not have happened yet (if at all) but in the off chance small bits circulate throughout the engine and may possibly clog an oil passage, that could lead to bigger issues. That’s a great point to bring up. Even though on this platform we are only naturally aspirated, for the boosted community hoping to see more than 300hp, oil return is a real design flaw from factory that leads to oiling issues at those power levels unfortunately.
@@shift__robinson definitely all of those steps help to some extent. I think if we look at the cost of cleaning RTV and factor in the chances and cost of repairs plus possible or not warranty coverage, mathematically RTV clean up would come out expensive, hence my words, waste of money. If one is putting bigger pan, definitely clean it up.
@@ruturaj47 I’d think it depends on the individual on whether it’s of value to them. Swapping the pan or adding a proper baffle would be best to do all at once. Some may just want to add an oil pick up screen, maybe not, but at least they have peace of mind.
@@shift__robinson let's look at this mathematically, if my engine blows on stock car, I am probably covered under warranty. Let's say I am not, the cost to replace engine is let's say 10k. Now the cost to clean RTV out of pick up tube let say is 200. So if chances of engine blowing up by RTV is more than 2% then it's wiser to clean it, if it's lower then not spending money on it is better. Cleaning RTV doesn't offer any other advantages like oil cooler does. I doubt RTV caused failure are even close to 0.5%.
@@ruturaj47 Your points are valid and are very reasonable and I understand what you’re saying. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant. This topic focuses on those that want the information and may or may not consider modifying or tracking their cars. Some may consider it worth the money, others may not. It’s not for me nor anyone else to say what is cost effective for what gives them peace of mind and/or scratches their itch.
My tuned GT86 drinks 0W20 on the track, and I quickly upgraded to 0W40 on the track or street. I don't understand why people insist on this viscosity which is clearly not suitable for high revs and high temperatures. These oils have nothing to do in a sports car. At equal bearing clearance other brands recommend a higher weight. Moreover Subaru STi Japan recommends 0W40 on street and 5W40 on tracks.
I agree 💯 With emissions becoming more strict over the last couple decades, auto manufacturers have resulted to trying to be as efficient and compliant as possible. Unfortunately, this results on being the consumers responsibility.
I think your explanation of Porsche oiling was a bit off. Dry sumps generally *are* driven by the crank. My understanding is that only the GT cars have full dry sump. And the non-GT cars have pump(s) that scavenge oil from the heads back to the wet sump, which might be what you were trying to describe.
@@grippgoat In some cases dry sumps can be driven by the crank, yes. However, the 911’s and GT variants are independent from the crank which is what I was referencing. Those cars are basically GT cars, built for the street as their technology transfer directly from their race cars.
Just run an overfill I overfill it to 6 quarts and from my research this is a great solution and I’ve been running it for 16,000 miles now no smoke, no leaks, no issues whatsoever.
@@infinity3016 That’s a solid approach for 90% + of the owners that may see a track day here or there. For the avid track goer in competition or chasing time, there’s more needed for the extreme conditions of oil pressure drops. This is a good watch if you haven’t seen it: ruclips.net/video/4Jk5WTWoqt4/видео.htmlsi=mStXUJImhJyczOKO
the loss of oil pressure is caused by the fact a large enough pocket of oil during hard braking then turning gets trapped in the timing cover, so at 5500+rpm ish from the graphs i was watching, the pumps "pumps" oil too fast for the scavenging,. its why it happens more on right turns, the scavenging there is a bit worse. other than that, oil heat causing the thinning of oil as you said. oil pan baffle isnt as effective as people think, its standard fixes. the overfill working is because that the overfill amount is enough to have enough oil while that pocket is stuck in the timing cover. overfilling you have to remember that too much will cause aeration of your oil. hydraulic mechanic here, air bubbles in any form of hydraulic system causes pitting. the real lubrication problem of this car is a scavenging issue.
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 That’s 💯% accurate. Thank you for elaborating. Most of these items are just band aids really. I’m very curious for a large capacity oil pan as I’m hopeful that will be enough excess to keep in the pan while oil elsewhere is returning. I appreciate your input 🙌🏽
YOU HAVE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ON THIS IMPORTANT MATTER. THANKS FOR SHARING IT WITH US BROTHER. 🙏🏽 ENGINE BAY IS LOOKING NICE AND FRESH! 2024 GR86 “TRUENO EDITION” CURRENT MILAGE : 2,555. NAMASTE 🙏🏽 FROM BROOKLYN.
@@kickdreaming Just trying to do my part in helping others grasp it. I appreciate you bro! Thank you! I try to wipe it down every chance I get 😁 Nice! I’m at 2,288 mi. Enjoy your weekend!
@@shift__robinson On the street they have proven in spirited driving you will not come close to having any level of detrimental oil drop due to not reaching high enough g's in right turns. Hence dont track the vehicle ruclips.net/video/a-Vggg7AHrI/видео.htmlsi=L7UzBpPxU4fCwYMy
@@tone3560 Thank you for sharing that link, it was a good product review and can be a useful tool for other enthusiasts. If you watched my video, you’d see that I’m focusing on ways that oil pressure drops are being mitigated during track settings. Not only did I reference aftermarket parts available and current helpful methods, but I’ve referenced those actively tracking their cars that are applying these methods to keep their cars active on the track. They have data to back it up. GR Cup has been ongoing since 2022, they have not had any catastrophic failures outside of user error. I have links to those sharing raw data along with an article that breaks down how GR Cup cars are able to achieve success with factory sealed engines. Lastly, check out Verus Engineering. They’re on version 3 of a prototype large capacity pan which is a very promising solution to these oil pressure drops.
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i personally haven't had any issues with oil pressure drops. Installed a oil pressure gauge to monitor. Take it to the track 3x / year and its used as my stock daily. Good presentation.
@@fearlessknight1343 Glad to hear it 👏🏽 For most that do go to the track casually may not see those conditions. For the extreme case that it does, typically for a split second or so the occurrences are above 5k rpms in a high G turn. Shifting early does help avoid that as well. Keep enjoying your car and I appreciate the kind words 😃
Watch the "Driver's paddock" hour long video on GR86/BRZ oil starvation. They did empirical testing with data on a stock brz and even bought a FA24 block to do outside testing. They made a lot of great and well informed points in the video.
One surprising take was that they think adding an oil cooler is doing more harm than good to oil pressure. Whatever pressure you get back from lower temps is being mitigated by the oil pump having to work extra hard to pump through the additional thin piping in the radiator and generally more distance the oil has to travel.
@@jay18394 Agreed 👍🏽 I’ve watched it and it’s a well informed video. I appreciate that they had a piece of the short block to show. I referenced them among others that have and continue to pull track data on the topic, along with being test mules for prototype oil pans. GR Cup would be the most extreme and extensive among them as they found that a robust cooling system is necessary, but it takes the proper balance between components to get it right. Keep in mind, they’re required to run factory sealed engines in spec race cars and must work with what they’re given.
@@shift__robinson ah didn't see the reference. I totally agree with you, and the GR Cup people are definitely smarter than me and probably did a lot of research to come to that conclusion.
However, I think their use case is different from 80% of the people taking their twins to the track. The GR Cup cars run 10/10th every lap for 60 minutes every race. My local track day sessions are 20 minutes long, spread through the day. I can thermally manage a 20 minute session so the oil temp doesn't go above 240 F, especially with one cool down lap in the middle. In this case, I would want higher oil pressure with less flow interference as temp is less of an issue.
If you are running 60 minute sessions full out, which is pretty rare for casual track days, I think getting an oil cooler is a no brainer.
@@jay18394 No problem. I’m sure when you combine a team of bright minds, you can find nearly any solution. Despite being a 2 year old series, they have yet to blow an engine outside of user error.
I think your environment and driving conditions can play a vital role in whether an oil cooler is necessary for your application. Out in California where I live, the tracks in the desert climates can get up to some high heat, where having to manage temperatures would be a challenge.
I will make probably make a follow up to this video to add to this information as I track my car regularly and could offer a different perspective. All points are valid that you made I just want to help spread the word so that people don’t have reservations about getting the car. Also nostreetracing86 helped with a lot of that research as well. Great Video!!!
@@iManual6peed Yes please! I feel the same way about sharing the knowledge with the community. I’m keeping an eye on Verus Engineering as I believe the larger capacity oil pan can be a promising solution for keeping more oil at the pick up. I’ll look into them as well, thank you for sharing and I appreciate the support and feedback 🙌🏽
Super useful video! Thanks for making this! For those looking for more information particularly how an Accusump works, we've made some videos on how it works, and it affects things on track.
@@AnsixAuto Thank you and anytime! I watched your videos and it inspired me to share the data you’ve collected with that Accusump. I’m glad you and others are striving to find alternative solutions 🤙🏽
You greatly summed up all the research, content and results from 900brz :D
Edit: Nevermind you even mentioned him
@@Sinancan93 I tried my best to compile as much of the good information available to encourage others to enjoy this platform as intended 😃
Track tip with an oil cooler: when you see the checkered flag, press your Max AC button to force both cooling fans on and you'll likely see a 20+ degree drop in oil temp before you reach the paddock
@@gyruss3239 Good to know 👍🏽 Thanks for sharing!
I see that kind of drop with just the factory oil to water cooler. I'm usually like 265 at full send, and 235 by the end of my cooldown lap. But I still need to get a real oil cooler.
@@grippgoat 💯! As that checkered flag waves, taking that time to do a proper cool down lap benefits all components of the car. Sometimes even after cool down, I see others pace slowly in the pit area just to get a little more cooling time.
Plus if you leave ac on and turn car on with engine not running it will run the fans.
@@kingofthehill29 True!
Thanks for this video. TBH i'm driving an 18' supercharged BRZ (catch cans, oil cooler) but found it really inforrmative!
@@AKidOnARoof314 My pleasure! The 1st gen may not suffer as much with oil pressure but at least you can apply much of it to the FA20. Sounds sick 🫡 which kit are you running?
@@shift__robinson running an edelbrock supercharger @10 lbs of boost, jackson racing oil cooler, radium oil catch cans, & PLM unequal length header. i love it to pieces lol
I will also add that the edelbrock e-force has 2 primary drawbacks. 1 being the coolant reservoir (plastic crap- leaked on me) got one fabricated from metal by my tuner as a replacement. #2 being the bypass valve replacement, it requires taking the entire supercharger off of the car every 40k miles
@@AKidOnARoof314 That’s a sweet setup! I bet she moves!
Metal is always a good alternative when it comes to the coolant reservoir.
Dang, every 40k? If it’s a weekend car, maybe it wouldn’t be as frequent. Can that bypass valve be upgraded?
Thank you for making this video!
@@peyton_andrewss You’re welcome!
I am currently in the process of installing an Accusump onto my GR86. It is positive pressure, not vacuum that forces oil back into the engine block. It is a chamber with a free floating piston inside. There is pressurized air on one side and oil in the other. When the valve is opened, usually when the ignition or a switch is turned on. This opens the oil side up to oil galleys inside the block. The positive pressure of the oil in the galleys will push oil into the Accusump until equilibrium is reached. If the oil pressure inside the block drops, the air pressure on the other side of the piston will push oil back into the engine and maintain pressure.
One other advantage of the Accusump is getting the oil pressure up before the engine starts rotating. If you open up the valve before the engine starts to turn over, oil will flow into the oil galleys and start lubricating. This is even more important in the GR86/BRZ engines as the oil filter is on top the engine and empty when you start the engine cold. Oil needs to be pumped out of the pan, into the filter, and fill the filter before the crank sees any oil pressure. Most engine wear occurs during startup. My guess is that one might double the lifespan of the engine if it begins most of its cold starts having oil pressure in the crankcase before rotation begins.
I’m no expert here, but I’m confused with the whole RTV repair thing. I understand that some people have had issues with RTV collecting in the oil pump intake. I can see why that might be a problem. The solution for most is to remove the oil pan, clean up all the RTV and… reapply RTV to the oil pan.
I’m guessing Subaru uses robots to apply the RTV, and they have done this for quite a while. I would imagine a company with many engineers that are working on using the best amount of RTV to make a seal would be better at it then anyone reading this right now.
Let’s say there is a 2% chance the Subaru robots mess up and put the wrong amount of RTV. That gives each of us a similar chance to have RTV collecting in the oil pump intake. If you know you have this issue, it might be a good idea to drop the oil pan and fix it. If you don’t know, you are just looking around.
If you drop the oil pan and you don’t have the RTV issue, you have to reinstall the oil pan. How do you do that? By using RTV. So a person who does not have the same expertise as the engineers, who is working on a surface that will have remnants of oil and RTV on the surface, upside down, with low light; is reinstalling the oil pan with RTV.
With that criteria, I would give the repair a 4% or higher of later having RTV collecting in the oil intake. So unless you can find a way to fix the issue and not recreate the circumstances of the issue, you are stuck with dropping the oil pan periodically and inspecting and removing RTV from the oil pump.
The only real solution I’ve seen to this mess is to either leave it alone and hope of the best; Or replace your OEM oil pan with Ansix Auto oil pan. That pan will allow you to inspect and remove any RTV without having to reapply RTV each time you do.
Just my 2¢. This post was not sponsored by Ansix Auto.
@@KernelFault Glad to hear you’ll be using an Accusump kit soon. You’re correct, I got the verbiage mixed up. Thanks for clarifying. I can see how it could be beneficial for daily driving, especially during cold weather start ups.
The simple answer to the RTV cause is during assembly it was applied in excess to where extra bits inside the pan after being sandwiched together would break off over time. More than likely assembled by robots where calibrations may have been off. The solution is to use significantly less RTV. I don’t believe Subaru uses an independent gasket in between the pan and block, just the sealant.
While the pan is down and excess RTV is removed, some people install screens on the oil pick up tube to block it out. There are Subaru specialty shops that are very familiar and have the process down, while
installing baffles and/or larger capacity pans.
Sponsored or not, that was great information 🙂 Thank you for sharing!
It’s not a 2% chance of RTV collecting, I believe it would be the inverse! (a 2% chance of the oil intake being RTV free). There’s a mechanic on RUclips that has documented about twenty something oil pan drops and it’s just a given that loose RTV will exist.
@@peejayem4700 You’re right! Nearly all our cars will have some level of RTV accumulated in the oil pick up.
Your videos make me want to buy a GR86
@@ASHEHADEH2 I think you would enjoy it! 😃
Many RUclips auto channels describe these cars as the most fun to drive new car in the current market, at any price point. They are not wrong.
@@KernelFault I agree with them 💯! The formula is simple and it works. It reminds me of the earlier 90’s sports cars with the light weight, go kart like experience.
This is so helpful!
@@AmberCalloway730 Glad it’s helpful 🙌🏽
Really useful info 👍
@@jiewu1988 Happy to help 🫡
Very helpful, I'm doing autocross now but looking to try time attack and I'm scared of it lol
@@isaabuela Happy to hear that 🙌🏽 That’s a good transition, autocross to road course. Haha, what’s scaring you?
🙌👏👏👏👏
Thank you 🤞🏻
@@miguelm3676 You’re welcome! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙏🏽😃
Good summary, and can provide the subaru documentation you reference noting 40W oil is OK for more extreme conditions? I've heard the BRZs in Japan note 5-w30 is OK, though my local Dealer is clueless here (and just says 0-20w). much conflicting info on this viscosity topic! Thank you
@@emerinomarchetti6456 Thank you! It was a factory service manual by Subaru Japan translated to English that I found online years ago. Although, there are plenty of articles with data to support the applications of viscosity & temperatures. The beauty of it is, no matter what engine it is, the information of oil analysis applies to all. Dealerships unfortunately are not a reliable source, they vary as they are a franchised business. Also, the knowledge they understand and learn about service, is a very different application from motorsports. It’s hard to find raw data and practical application in the same spaces. I would recommend looking at this article as it helps paint a picture as to what GR Cup does for their spec race cars on these factory engines:
900brz.com/posts/gr-cup-reliability?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2LfFRidNQvk2WJ7nHtHxrF1rjdoCijAP52k0sTP2mKGRMTNZwtYCIjbDU_aem_jxaw2nR7d7yq2LRamNYfEg
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@OscarOmarPosadaSanchez 🙌🏽🙌🏽🤙🏽
I've read the other listed comments and wish to give positive advice that I've given before on this subject to individuals, which includes 009. My brother owns a FRS and we have discussed the problems that occur under track, turbo/super charged applications. I watched 009's data gathering and watched as an engine was dying from oil starvation, testing a vertical baffle which failed on track. How to visualize oil movement in an engine oil pan with G forces is, put some water in a pan and move it left, right, forward & back. How much oil is remaining in the oil pan when it is being pumped out and where is the oil placement now @ high RPM's ? The oil is in the heads (cam covers) and can't return to the sump from G forces and inadequate returns; all boxer engines have to deal with this issue. Oil temperature/pressure/viscosity is helped by using 5W40 (hydrodynamic wedge) and leave the oil to water heat exchanger in place, as it help to get the oil up to running temperature sooner and the stabilizes it. The sump needs to be truncated, properly baffled, deeper with additional returns from the heads. I own a 2nd gen Cayman S as the engine in the 1st gen had numerous design problems, beyond the oiling issues. Look into the M96 & M97 engine design vs the MA1/9a1 engine designs. The 9a1 has a truncated integrated dry sump with a computer variable oil pressure pump/4 port scavenge pump @ each corner of both heads. This engine is also used in the GT3 & GT2 with a sump change to direct the oil to a separate oil tank for endurance track racing applications. Hope this helps someone!
@@warrenlucier5796 Great information and thank you for sharing! I’ve learned that when these engines are boosted, the problem of oil starvation only exaggerates. The oil return isn’t where it should be, and once it surpasses the 300hp + range, that’s when it becomes dangerous under these track conditions. Porsche and others you mentioned learned the benefits of dry sump oiling systems years ago. I think as a collective, we’re getting closer to a practical solution, hopefully in the near future.
I’ll drop this article here that shares what GR Cup is doing with their spec cars:
900brz.com/posts/gr-cup-reliability?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2LfFRidNQvk2WJ7nHtHxrF1rjdoCijAP52k0sTP2mKGRMTNZwtYCIjbDU_aem_jxaw2nR7d7yq2LRamNYfEg
@@shift__robinson Found that quite interesting. They may be required to use the factory oil sump by rules, but I find the baffle to be helpful if this requirement is in fact correct. If rules would allow a different header design to give more room in the area of the sump, then a truncated, baffled, higher capacity design would potentially alleviate the oil starvation. May need to run additional drains from the heads with de-aeration chambers. like Porsche and others do. There are other thing to help with oil control, but the one I mention is the 1st one to do.
@@warrenlucier5796 I believe it is part of their requirements. I’m keeping an eye out for Verus Engineering’s prototype large capacity baffled oil pan for the FA24, it seems very promising. If you’d like to check it out:
ruclips.net/video/kVEpMu6YHeo/видео.htmlsi=UFCMVxPSfypOnAxN
where does subaru recommend a higher oil viscosity cause ive never seen it anywhere and ive gone looking
@@stevenyerry2209 I found it online years ago. It was a factory service manual made 20+ years ago in japan, translated to English. It covered all types of boxer engines at the time. I wish now that I had saved the link.
I feel like you should mention the power loss due to higher viscosity oils, I once changed to 5W30 and I can feel drastic power loss immediately. I drive my car hard and what I do is changing my oil more often, for example, an oil change per track day to keep my car running smooth. Did 20k miles in my GR86 and I only use 0w20. I do a lot of touges and some trackways and 0w20 held up well. I've seen around 250ish oil temps during the sessions and I just back off slightly to let the car cool down a little bit and go on. For someone who just daily drive the car and aim for fuel economy, there's nothing wrong with 0w20 and oil pressure does not matter too much.
@@qujacky8072 You’re right about power loss, I feel it most in the lower rpms during stop and go. The overfill impacts that most due to the boxer engine being an open deck design and oil interference with the reciprocating internal components. The trade off for what viscosity does for protection over power loss is worth it to the frequent track goers. It’s great maintenance practice to change your oil frequently for consistent track days, especially for your transmission and differential. They’ll thank you in longevity. The only problem with running 20 weight in that setting, once your oil temperature surpasses 220+ degrees, it becomes a 10 weight which can need dangerous. Plus oil pressure drops become even more prominent with thinner viscosity. At the very least you should consider a 30 weight plus overfill for those conditions.
If you haven’t watched it yet, I’d recommend this for a break down of data collection related to pressure drop conditions:
ruclips.net/video/4Jk5WTWoqt4/видео.htmlsi=rnuDz-HjR2O3CUs6
Also in my description, I shared other links that explain the fa24d further in depth and what GR Cup has been doing successfully.
Great Info
Thank you 🙌🏽
There is a simple order to go about this.
If you are tracking the car, you need to accept some increased wear, the engine is not going to last as long as it would if you only drove it on the street. With that being said:
You should consider an overfill. There are currently no high capacity pans available for this car yet (unless you got super lucky with a pre-prod. one), but you can squeeze maybe .5-.7L more oil in before you really start causing problems. The trade-off is a FILTHY intake and PCV system, all that extra oil is gonna mess shit up eventually, but it's better than a new engine.
You need to watch your oil temps. Take it to the track on 0w20 and see what temps you reach. If you're above 230f, you need to switch to a 5w30 or 40 weight oil depending on the severity. Never continue to push the car when the oil is getting this hot though. Everyone's skill level is different so you may find you just don't need the heavier weight oil, yet.
THIS IS THE FURTHEST YOU SHOULD GO FOR A CAR THAT YOU STILL WANT TO DRIVE ON THE STREET, if you want to go further...
Oil cooler, you're gonna see a pretty serious pressure drop just from running one, but if you can't keep your oil temps under control it's a necessary evil. This is not good for street duty even with a thermostatic plate because of the amount of wear you're introducing. You're also introducing another failure point to the system.
Accusump, the great thing about this is it solves a lot of problems. Higher oil capacity means you don't see as high of oil temps, and oil pressure is regulated so no more pressure drops. But these are not good for the street because of the added failure point and longer cold start times. These systems also require regular maintenance and often leak. If you're building a dedicated track car though this should be mod #1 after heavier weight oil.
Even with all this, when you're driving on the street you should switch back to 0w20 for most climates or 5w30 for spirited driving in warm climates to maximize engine life. Subaru was right to spec this because it really is best for everyday driving.
Frankly any other "fixes" for this problem are snake oil and not worth pursuing, this includes lower oil pan baffles and RTV. The only mod that is worth waiting for is the high capacity oil pan. Otherwise until then 99% will be served best by a heavier weight oil for the track and a slight overfill. The best part about this practice is it doesn't void your warranty so if you do see a failure, you can still go back to Toyota/Subaru and get a new one.
This is great information, I appreciate you sharing! A couple notes to add:
If you'd like to re-route the excess oil going into the intake, an oil catch can will be your friend.
For some of the colder climate folks, they may not need an oil cooler if their car is dual purpose as it may "over cool" as you mentioned. Some companies make covers for their oil coolers.
There are accusump kits with a shut off valve, so if you street drive it, it'll prevent circulating from the tank. Ansix Auto uses this setup.
There are some oil baffles that help, but not all are created equal. 86cup created a version that works for their high track demands. 900 BRZ has tested and captured some revisions.
I'm looking forward to seeing who releases their large capacity oil pans first, between Verus Engineering and Driver's Paddock.
@@shift__robinson Good points, I didn't realize accusumps with shutoff valves were available now. That's very helpful and makes it an obvious choice.
The reason I suggested to stop at an overfill and heavier weight oil is because there's value in maintaining the factory warranty for a daily driver. Per SavageGeese, Toyota has committed to covering their cars under warranty at track days and HPDE. You can go crazy with all these modifications, but be realistic, a factory warranty and a brand new engine is better. Don't risk voiding your warranty for only marginal improvements.
I hazard against oil catch cans because they require vacuum to work and if cheaply built will basically stop your PCV system from functioning. Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed. This pretty much goes for any street car though, not just the GR86.
Oil coolers are really a last ditch effort to protect the engine from excessive oil temps. They do seriously drop oil pressure by >10PSI on this engine and do more harm than good for daily driving. The first step is a heavier weight oil, then consider an oil cooler.
Regarding oil baffles, I've yet to see anything credible to indicate that a lower oil baffle is helpful at all with pressure drops. There is only one baffle that I would trust to work. It was a one off by Revolution Japan (the rotary builder/tuner), it's a horizontal baffle installed in the upper oil pan. It's a complex design with moving parts and limited lifespan. The install involves more or less an engine rebuild. I don't believe that the GR cup baffle is doing anything productive.
I strongly recommend everyone to check out SavageGeese's early video series on his GT86, he did a lot of testing with his and has serious unspoken knowledge on these topics.
Here's the post about the Revolution oil baffle: www.reddit.com/r/GR86/comments/14l3ooa/engine_oil_pressure_solution/
@@Ark7760 It’s helpful to regulate off/on street driving. There is accusump data that shows minimal psi drops in the 30 psi range. Much better than the more frequent high teens/low 20’s. I’ll share that link to his kit and track video here:
ansixauto.com/2022-brz-gr86-accusump-Installation-Kit
ruclips.net/video/3YijBO_gS7Y/видео.html
That’s understandable. There are some individuals that have shared while going through the warranty process, the manufacturer would have to prove that the specified part contributed to engine failure, or caused oil pressure to drop. With that said, there are many parts that don’t void warranty, let alone related to the issue. Dealerships will say otherwise but this information came from corporate. Just seeing the recent engine failure lawsuit news surface, I’m curious what the circumstances are per individual.
Agreed! If you buy a proper kit still incorporating vacuum from the manifold, there are kits available that would function like oem with an added reservoir.
I would say yes and no, depending on the application. In your reference to stock power, street driven cars, I think it’s possible in the right conditions with a very meticulous owner. Those that go boost may have to consider that for themselves with the added stresses and heat, but let’s stay away from that for now. I’ll use myself as an example; I drive my car leisurely and I plan to participate in a local time attack group. Most of my time spent driving is above 4k rpms. I typically see 2 seasons all year round, mostly in the warmer temperatures. I fully warm up my cars before driving, and cruise an additional 10 minutes for the drivetrain to warm up, before hard driving. I would still commute to and from the track as it’s still a street car, so I could get away with a cover for the oil cooler combined with a thermostic sandwhich plate. I’ve done this with previous builds to keep operating temps up on the highway, then remove the oil cooler cover during track prep. With that said, considering warmer weather conditions of 20 minute sessions while chasing time, the cooler would be worth it. Temperatures and viscosity do directly affect oil pressure drops, the higher the temperature the lower the drop and higher viscosity helps from dropping as low. If you’re an avid track goer and plan on driving in extreme conditions, I would say the trade off could make sense combining thicker viscosity & overfill, but not limited to for track driving. However, I would agree that for maybe most owners that do daily drive, it isn’t applicable.
On the market as far as baffles go, I’m not 100% either. I’ve only seen data with prototypes. The problem lies in the oil returning back to the pan, which would highly depend on the opening designs on the plate. We also have to worry about oil scavenging, more oil being pumped out versus draining back from the heads and timing cover. I mentioned 86cup because they got their design from Larry Chen’s SEMA built 86. The group acquired the design and most likely made some tweaks. They have yet to have any catastrophic failures during their race season outside of user error. They do have really robust cooling systems, they use most combined methods mentioned, and are required to run factory sealed engines. Between 900brz and Ansix Auto, with their mix and matched combinations they’re able to accomplish track days without catastrophic failure thus far. I like the concept of Revolution Japans baffling. It’s unfortunate that you do have to open the engine up. Ansix has something similar but for the lower portion of the pan.
I like SavageGeese, they make great videos. Drivers Paddock did a great job recently on an FA24D breakdown as well, they went as far as removing the upper oil pan area to display for context along with track scenario data details. Another good watch if you have the time:
ruclips.net/video/4CidHbClNHY/видео.html
Thank you for sharing the article 👍🏽 I think the solution for 99% of the psi drop is coming in the near future. Anxiously waiting over here for a large capacity pan to be available.
While i do agree all of this helps, overfill and bigger pan being the best to actually mitigate the issue. Some are just band aid like an oil cooler (bandaid for this issue, it solves a slight different problem). Oil baffle doesn't seem much of use. Accusump is unnecessarily complicated. RTV cleanup on its own is waste of money.
Quoting nostreetracing86 "STI team did an oil path analysis on their FA24DIT engine on their WRX endurance race car and part of their improvement is to add a small vertical baffle to the timing chain cover to help oil return back to the pan when car transit from left turn to right turn." Given that the real OEM solution would be to do the same, I wish Subaru did it.
@@ruturaj47 I agree. Doing the best with what’s available at least helps keep catastrophic failure from happening. I wouldn’t consider RTV clean up to be a waste of money. It still impedes flow at the pickup. It may not have happened yet (if at all) but in the off chance small bits circulate throughout the engine and may possibly clog an oil passage, that could lead to bigger issues.
That’s a great point to bring up. Even though on this platform we are only naturally aspirated, for the boosted community hoping to see more than 300hp, oil return is a real design flaw from factory that leads to oiling issues at those power levels unfortunately.
@@shift__robinson definitely all of those steps help to some extent. I think if we look at the cost of cleaning RTV and factor in the chances and cost of repairs plus possible or not warranty coverage, mathematically RTV clean up would come out expensive, hence my words, waste of money. If one is putting bigger pan, definitely clean it up.
@@ruturaj47 I’d think it depends on the individual on whether it’s of value to them. Swapping the pan or adding a proper baffle would be best to do all at once. Some may just want to add an oil pick up screen, maybe not, but at least they have peace of mind.
@@shift__robinson let's look at this mathematically, if my engine blows on stock car, I am probably covered under warranty. Let's say I am not, the cost to replace engine is let's say 10k. Now the cost to clean RTV out of pick up tube let say is 200. So if chances of engine blowing up by RTV is more than 2% then it's wiser to clean it, if it's lower then not spending money on it is better. Cleaning RTV doesn't offer any other advantages like oil cooler does. I doubt RTV caused failure are even close to 0.5%.
@@ruturaj47 Your points are valid and are very reasonable and I understand what you’re saying. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant. This topic focuses on those that want the information and may or may not consider modifying or tracking their cars. Some may consider it worth the money, others may not. It’s not for me nor anyone else to say what is cost effective for what gives them peace of mind and/or scratches their itch.
Word of caution, most baffle plates have not shown positive effects. In fact some vertical baffles reduce oil pressure further.
@@neildesai21 Great tip. By chance, do you know which of those brands to look out for?
Can these ideas also help the WRX and its turbo 2.4?
@@pigletshut Yes, definitely! Since both are similar boxer engines, they also share those concerns.
My tuned GT86 drinks 0W20 on the track, and I quickly upgraded to 0W40 on the track or street. I don't understand why people insist on this viscosity which is clearly not suitable for high revs and high temperatures. These oils have nothing to do in a sports car. At equal bearing clearance other brands recommend a higher weight. Moreover Subaru STi Japan recommends 0W40 on street and 5W40 on tracks.
I agree 💯 With emissions becoming more strict over the last couple decades, auto manufacturers have resulted to trying to be as efficient and compliant as possible. Unfortunately, this results on being the consumers responsibility.
There's no way in hell Subaru didn't know this was a thing before releasing the car.
@@rekt4guud134 Strong possibility
I think your explanation of Porsche oiling was a bit off. Dry sumps generally *are* driven by the crank. My understanding is that only the GT cars have full dry sump. And the non-GT cars have pump(s) that scavenge oil from the heads back to the wet sump, which might be what you were trying to describe.
@@grippgoat In some cases dry sumps can be driven by the crank, yes. However, the 911’s and GT variants are independent from the crank which is what I was referencing. Those cars are basically GT cars, built for the street as their technology transfer directly from their race cars.
Just run an overfill I overfill it to 6 quarts and from my research this is a great solution and I’ve been running it for 16,000 miles now no smoke, no leaks, no issues whatsoever.
@@infinity3016 That’s a solid approach for 90% + of the owners that may see a track day here or there. For the avid track goer in competition or chasing time, there’s more needed for the extreme conditions of oil pressure drops.
This is a good watch if you haven’t seen it:
ruclips.net/video/4Jk5WTWoqt4/видео.htmlsi=mStXUJImhJyczOKO
the loss of oil pressure is caused by the fact a large enough pocket of oil during hard braking then turning gets trapped in the timing cover, so at 5500+rpm ish from the graphs i was watching, the pumps "pumps" oil too fast for the scavenging,. its why it happens more on right turns, the scavenging there is a bit worse. other than that, oil heat causing the thinning of oil as you said. oil pan baffle isnt as effective as people think, its standard fixes. the overfill working is because that the overfill amount is enough to have enough oil while that pocket is stuck in the timing cover.
overfilling you have to remember that too much will cause aeration of your oil. hydraulic mechanic here, air bubbles in any form of hydraulic system causes pitting.
the real lubrication problem of this car is a scavenging issue.
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 That’s 💯% accurate. Thank you for elaborating. Most of these items are just band aids really. I’m very curious for a large capacity oil pan as I’m hopeful that will be enough excess to keep in the pan while oil elsewhere is returning. I appreciate your input 🙌🏽
YOU HAVE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE ON THIS IMPORTANT MATTER. THANKS FOR SHARING IT WITH US BROTHER. 🙏🏽
ENGINE BAY IS LOOKING NICE AND FRESH!
2024 GR86 “TRUENO EDITION” CURRENT MILAGE : 2,555.
NAMASTE 🙏🏽 FROM BROOKLYN.
@@kickdreaming Just trying to do my part in helping others grasp it. I appreciate you bro!
Thank you! I try to wipe it down every chance I get 😁
Nice! I’m at 2,288 mi.
Enjoy your weekend!
@@shift__robinson DOING YOUR THING! LIKING THE CONSISTENT CONTENT. 🙌🏽
THANKS BRO. ENJOY WEEKEND TOO.
@@kickdreaming Much appreciated 🙏🏽😃Doing my best!
Thank you!
EASY...DONT TRACK THE VEHICLE
@@tone3560 And your reasons are?
@@shift__robinson On the street they have proven in spirited driving you will not come close to having any level of detrimental oil drop due to not reaching high enough g's in right turns. Hence dont track the vehicle
ruclips.net/video/a-Vggg7AHrI/видео.htmlsi=L7UzBpPxU4fCwYMy
@@tone3560 Thank you for sharing that link, it was a good product review and can be a useful tool for other enthusiasts.
If you watched my video, you’d see that I’m focusing on ways that oil pressure drops are being mitigated during track settings. Not only did I reference aftermarket parts available and current helpful methods, but I’ve referenced those actively tracking their cars that are applying these methods to keep their cars active on the track. They have data to back it up. GR Cup has been ongoing since 2022, they have not had any catastrophic failures outside of user error. I have links to those sharing raw data along with an article that breaks down how GR Cup cars are able to achieve success with factory sealed engines.
Lastly, check out Verus Engineering. They’re on version 3 of a prototype large capacity pan which is a very promising solution to these oil pressure drops.
@@shift__robinson ruclips.net/video/a-Vggg7AHrI/видео.htmlsi=Q8CipbExOZkvsyvb