Another great video! 👍 I never knew about comics journal 85... the more you know 🙌 Spider-Man 300 was the first graded comic I ever bought; Always loved that cover!
@@MintHunterComics I have 2 copies. One Direct Edition and One Newsstand. I was going to get them graded to see which one I want to keep vs. sell. Let me know if you're interested.
Thanks for segmenting your vids dude, again very informative and this is why I keep coming back to your vids! Love that internet introduction vid you added also ahahah.
I was also working at a comic shop. And I have had this same argument with friends, forever. ASM 252, the next week was SW 8. Then TU 141 and Peter Parker 90 same week.
I have a feeling the comic industry has a more than a handful of hidden blue chip keys that have yet to be revealed that they are saving like a pocketful of aces ...
There is another.....Comics Buyers Guide which was published weekly had the black costume on the cover. With it being weekly, the possibility of it being first is pretty high.
I bought 252 off the shelf at my local drug store (where I bought most of my comics at the time). I knew there was a change coming to Spider-Man but it wasn’t until I saw the cover of 252 that I knew what it was. Had I seen one of the other covers first 252 would not have been a surprise. 252 definitely appeared first at my newsstand.
Well edited and narrated. Preview appearances ARE appearances, just not in comics (for the most part). You can call a preview appearance a first appearance, but not in comic books. The technicality would be, "1st appearence in preview advertisement/mag publication." So, essentially the preview appearance will never negate the "1st app in comics." UNLESS... you get a preview that is inserted in a retail newsstand or direct copy of a priced comic book (IE. ASM 365). Previews mags serve a purpose. Most of them are free. The ones that aren't free still are an advertising magazine, similar to a Wizard or a Becket for cards. But when a preview is actually added to a canonical comic publication, it blurs the line, and this is why ASM 365 is usually considered the actual 1st app of Spidey 2099 IN COMICS. Do I personally agree with that? Ehhh... It definitely rides a fine line, but at the end of the day.... it still is.... just a preview.
Exactly - you can't say they're not 1st appearance as they are literally the 1st appearance - however most don't count it as it doesn't effect story. Most consider story effecting appearances to be 1st appearances )which I tend to agree with)
I think people just don't agree with what defines a "first appearance". Like how some people say Hulk 180 is the first cameo appearance of wolverine and Hulk 181 is the first full appearance.
I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure the publication date on magazines does not include the 3 month lag that was built in for comics newsstand returns.
I really wish I had watched this video a couple of weeks ago! There was a huge argument going on Facebook about this situation. I could have saved my fingers a lot of typing, because you have completely nailed it in this one! A lot of younger collectors assume Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance because it DOES show up in story form there first. But, for some insane reason, Jim Shooter had the Secret Wars book as a monthly title and had the resolution issues to the story coming out at the same time the first issue came out! So, as a kid, we were all trying to figure out what Secret Wars would actually be. It seemed like a deal where heroes and villains would clash and the winners would get a wish or something. For Spidey, he showed up with the black suit, which could do pretty much everything he always did except he wouldn't have to make web shooter fluid all the time. Thing became human and was on some alien world. It was kind of a mess. And by the time Secret Wars #8 came out, the symbiote had been revealed as a living entity and it made the reveal of the suit kind of lackluster. He was already in red and blue again. As to actual comic appearance history, yes, Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the first. Those preview appearances are historical and have value because they pre-dated the actual appearance. But, as far as comics history goes, Amazing #252 is the way to go. If this comes up gain, I'll just share this video and save myself some time.
Not a first appearance but a cool black suit issue. Spider-Man had to wear his black costume during his Transformers 3 team-up to differentiate from his Secret Wars action figure due to toy copyrights. Technically his third appearance in the suit but it wasn’t originally planned that way.
If the previews are considered first appearance, will yes. But in cameo form. The Preview books is just that, they talk about the character and shows you a picture of what the character might look like. But what if you get preview strips of the story with the character, then would that be the first appearance?
Just sold one of my SW8 CGC 9.8’s for $700 USD. Will hold on to the other one I have graded, as I agree it will just continue to climb. Waiting for Secret Wars to be announced for the MCU!
Previews should never count except for completionist purposes. If I have a preview ad for the new Air Jordans, that doesn’t mean I can tell people I own the new Air Jordans.
Sometimes I don't even know which one is the actual 1st appearance, It's like if I see an old comic with the black suit spidey that was the 1st appearance to me! And that editor was lucky buying it for $220 lmao
Better to take into account canonically where they appear first. X-Men Annual 14 and UXM 266 for first appearance Gambit. Even though the Annual arrived on shelves first, UXM 266 is the first true appearance. Secret Wars 8 for mine is the 'true' first, but all of them books are worth having to be honest :)
Great video man, this stuff is always so confusing... Plus you could throw in Marvel Spotlight 9 if you wanted to get crazy with it. However, ASM 252 is the one I would pick up.
I got my ASM 252 at a flea market. Near Mint. Me and my brother both... yeah, their was a WHOLE box of ASM 252 at least 200 issues stacked on top of each other for $2 a piece back in 2007. Still the craziest story I have and nothing will top it. My brother knew what it was. (The importance of the issue) and told our Mom she needed to buy all of them... she said no. Edit: I was only 10
1st appearance in a story usually counts as a first appearance to me, however chronologically I can see how that can be a first appearance as well. The 3 spider-man books do tie as the first appearance, which i bought off the newsstand however the first chronological appearance is Secret Wars 8, which I bought months later if I recall. Always wondered where that suit came from during that period until the secret wars series came out.
I remember when ASM 252 came out, but nobody is mentioning everyone HATED it. The black suit was a total dud. I don't remember anyone going crazy over this idea / book. ASM 252 is the first black suit because it is part of the main storyline of that book. Previews are not part of a story, they are just a visual and therefore not first appearances. Even if the black suit appears in a story, it has to be part of the main storyline of that book or it is just a cameo -- like Hulk 180. (Don't @ me)
I'm one of those collectors who was buying everything comic book related during that time. I have everything you mentioned, and paid cover price , including 10 copies of ASM 252, so, essentially have no real $'s a stake. Consequently, previews are just that, previews. My vote ASM 252 !
Comics Journal #85... Now I know... and knowing is half the battle!!! Personally when I was buying the books when they came out, it was Amazing Spider-man 298 (First McFarlane in ASM) that was considered the First Appearance of Venom. Then they got technical and used words like "Cameo" vs. "Appearance". ASM 298 vs. ASM 299 vs, ASM 300. I do agree that #300 has the BEST COVER. But in my heart, ASM 298 will always be, in MY humble opinion, the first appearance of Venom.
@@MintHunterComics RE: ASM 298 Marvel Fandom.com has: "Other Characters: Venom (Eddie Brock) (First appearance as Venom) (Shadow only)" It's similar to Wolverine's first Appearance: Incredible Hulk 180 or 181?
The First time I saw the Black Suit in Transformers #1 and I was so confused. I thought it was a gimmick for the Transformers books but then it came out in the ASM
Great Video...It's absolutely ASM 252 though...it's nice to have the previews though for the PC...my fave of the previews is MA 12 just because the white parts are red which Jim Shooter revealed recently was actually a mistake. Wouldn't mind having a CJ 85 tho...but I'm a 9.8 snob when it comes to modern/copper books and that one is very hard to find in that condition.
I agree - I actually changed my mind about ASM 252 through my research - I thought I'd prove it wasn't the 1st app but now more than ever I'm convinced that it is
Great question! I was a collector prior to 1984, but without digressing too much, I never bought new issues! I had a whole stack before I bought my first new issue: 257. I remember reading that issue, in it Spider-man briefly thinks about the Black Cat and I thought it meant she was dead. ( I confused her for Gwen Stacy, remember, we had no internet then.) Anyway, in order to work out what was going on, I started buying back issues of Peter Parker and Marvel Team Up. My point is: I bought Spectacular 90 and Marvel Team up 141 at COVER price even six months later, whereas I could not find 252 anywhere. So I can definitely tell you how the initial reaction went! I have similar stories about how the market reacted to 121, 122, 129 and 200. 200 was in the Dollars and Sense (Ridgewood) dollar box, multiple copies, NO BAGS. As for the others...
I bought 252 off the spinner rack before the other two books. I do remember their releases being staggered like that because I collected all 3 titles. Also, there's another issue of Amazing Heroes with a black suit preview. (It also has a Turtles preview, so very good book.)
Yes ASM 252 was first.. We were not worrying about previews back then. But NCBD was Friday in 84. Feb 2 was a Thursday and Feb 14 was a Tuesday. These books were not released on 2 different days of the week.
Awesome channel. I just moved and dug out my comics that I haven't touched but once since I collected in the 80's. I have the collecting bug again, oh crap. Anyway, saw that I have ASM 252... probably in a 9.2 or 9.4.. which is amazing since I bought it off the shelf as a kid and read it a couple times. Also had X-men 101 in a 8.5 or 9.0 that I picked up for like $10 in 1985. Kinda bummed that I can't find my ASM 300.. I think I gave it to my brother in like 2002 to hang on his bonus room wall.. good luck getting it back lol. I just made my first submission to CGC ever.. 35 books, wish me luck. :)
Hey James thanks for the awesome video!! Just picked up a Batman detective comics 667 newsstand!! 🔥 thought you might be the only other guy that would appreciate that!
GREAT VIDEO. As someone who was there when it happened.........I cannot remember WHEN or HOW I knew the black suit was coming, but it was not a surprise to see that black suit appear on that stunning cover of issue #252. What I do remember was my teenage self carefully selecting and buying 3 copies of it. I still have Comics Scene magazines from around that era. If I find something there of relevance, I will for sure post it here. For sure I do not remember finding the news in any of preview magazines you highlighted. It was pre-internet of course, so I am thinking the announcement that this was coming must have made its way to the TV news at the time. This is a seriously interesting piece of history, thanks for putting this together.
@@MintHunterComics All I can add is.....it was a magical time. My main collecting era was late 79 (Rom #1 time frame is my point of reference) til approx 1988. So many great memories still today.
It was ASM#252 as i went nits looking for extra copies of it all over but i was late on the week that it came out and only got 9 copies. Once i saw that comic i knew that it would be big. Then i kept an eye out for other appearances and grabed 40+ copies of SW#8. I have a few copies each of PP and MTU but did not believe that they were as big as the others.
I got ams 252 as a kid and thought I had just missed the explanation for the black suit from secret wars I had no idea secret wars black suit came out after 252
ASM 252 is the book I consider the first black suite appearance. Aside from it being released first it has the better cover which I feel breaks the tie haha. As for first appearances it tough. I do feel that there should be some guidelines to what is considered a true first appearance. Venom’s first is not 300. ASM 299 has a full page spread with his name. It makes no sense besides the fact that 300 has the better cover. Wolverine is another one that’s just as bad. Unfortunately it seems that the market dictates the first appearances. Great video!
We (us crazy collectors) are getting ridiculous with these first appearance arguments. It was already bad with the cameo VS first "full" appearance arguments. Now we're considering previews? What's next? Next issue previews that show a cover with a new character? Ads? Names? What if we get a name drop preview at the end of an issue like, "next month, who is the mysterious Mysterio" or whatever? Shouldn't that count??? That slab you have on your table is the definitive 1st appearance of the black suit, or should be anyway. Previews and all that other jazz are cool, but something different. And in my opinion, cameos are true first appearances!
Previews don't count as 1st appearances. Period. They are trade publications and not actual continuity stories. It's apples and oranges. Trade publications were plentiful and never worth anything. People with stacks of them decided to try to make them 1st appearances by pushing this so they can make some money. 1st appearances are only IN STORY.
Good historical timeline of the black suit. Definitely not going to call ads oor previews forst appearances -- that is SSSTTTRRREEEETTTTCCCCHHHHIIIINNNNNGGGG. And I don't know what the controversy is - people already know that ASM 252 came out first -- it even says on the cover. I remember picking it up as a kid, then the others.
Thanks for this content, always worth the watch and love the spec on the spec perspective! IMHO, ASM252 is the book. The rest, including those previews not published by Marvel, sorry they just don’t cut it. I’ll stick with 252, 300 and SW8 as the keys to delivering this character. Main storyline was pencilled in only those three books… the rest are just by association, be it publication date or insider news.
@@MintHunterComics Marvel Age isn’t character story-related, it’s news, articles, artwork and gossip (aka industry Insider info) therefore shouldn’t count as far as intro, appearance or origin. Also think CGC should replace the, “Ties with Team up 141”. Team-up is true second appearance based on your research.
Super interesting my man! It's very debatable. I mean, if single panels or quick references to a new character is considered a 1st cameo, wouldn't previews we classed as the actual 1st cameo? I don't really go for the previews. To learn what's coming out in the future, yeah. But to collect, I prefer the actual comics. Because there's never really much of a story in the previews. However, in terms of investment - if the market decides previews are gold - then for sure, I'm locking them up in my safe. Thanks for doing all the detailed research. I did always wonder about the 1st app of the black suit. 🤘
Another great video! 👍 I never knew about comics journal 85... the more you know 🙌 Spider-Man 300 was the first graded comic I ever bought; Always loved that cover!
I want a copy now haha - Spider-man 300 is a grail I've never owned!
@@MintHunterComics I have 2 copies. One Direct Edition and One Newsstand. I was going to get them graded to see which one I want to keep vs. sell. Let me know if you're interested.
If one person says that Spider-Man 3 is the first appearance of the black suit I’m lose my faith in humanity
Thanks for segmenting your vids dude, again very informative and this is why I keep coming back to your vids! Love that internet introduction vid you added also ahahah.
Glad you like them! hahaha oh internet
Don’t forget about ASM 298. First cameo of the symbiote wrapping around Eddie’s hand
Mmmm true dat
I was working at a comic store back then and ASM 252 definitely came out two weeks before Spectacular S-M and Marvel team-up.
Correct! I verified this to be true in the video
I was also working at a comic shop. And I have had this same argument with friends, forever. ASM 252, the next week was SW 8. Then TU 141 and Peter Parker 90 same week.
@@jeffclay9484 SW8 came out about 6 months after all these
One of my favorite videos of yours. Keep this up
Yo thanks Mike - I'm glad you liked it - I actually put a LOT of work into this one so it's nice to be appreciated!
I have a feeling the comic industry has a more than a handful of hidden blue chip keys that have yet to be revealed that they are saving like a pocketful of aces ...
Hmmm interesting (maybe)
Lot of good research! Thanks for sharing with the community!
My pleasure!
Great video. Does CGC recognize any of the other spiderman books as the first appearance or just the 252 one
It says Marvel team up141 is tied for 1st app, be we debunked it as we now know 252 came out 2 weeks earlier!
Good work on the research!
Thanks! it took a WHILE! lol
#8 "Secrete Wars". Officially.....For shure. In one of, if not the most important story lines in Marvel history!
amazingly put together video. always wondered this myself and interesting to see the books with sketches I didn't even know about.
¡Gracias amigo!
Justo hoy tenía esa duda en saber la primera aparición.
Gran vídeo/Great video
Thanks so much Adrian!
The "Newsstand" link on the Mike's Amazing World site can prove helpful is determining when certain comics were released.
Good tip, thanks man!
I got Amazing Spiderman 252 in 1984. the comic shop didn't have preview mags.
Gotcha!
Damn dude, your videos are always so well made and always very entertaining! great video
Thanks dude! I put an ass ton of time into the research and edit of this because I wanted to solve this question once and for all!
Great vid man. One of my faves you have done man. No previews, ads, etc are 1st appearances IMO.
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though!
There is another.....Comics Buyers Guide which was published weekly had the black costume on the cover. With it being weekly, the possibility of it being first is pretty high.
Oooh interesting! you'll have to message me a picture of that!
I bought 252 off the shelf at my local drug store (where I bought most of my comics at the time). I knew there was a change coming to Spider-Man but it wasn’t until I saw the cover of 252 that I knew what it was. Had I seen one of the other covers first 252 would not have been a surprise. 252 definitely appeared first at my newsstand.
I wish I existed back then hahaha
Calling a preview a first appearance is like calling a commercial for a movie a prelude.
Dude that is a SOLID metaphor! really makes you think!
I always learn something new from you James!! I never knew about Comics Journal #85!!! Thanks amigo!! 🙌🏼🔥🔥
Glad this video helped!
Awesome video! A lot of solid information. Secret wars 8 is my favorite . It’s also the only book I have from the list you mentioned.
What a great book to have though!
Well edited and narrated. Preview appearances ARE appearances, just not in comics (for the most part). You can call a preview appearance a first appearance, but not in comic books. The technicality would be, "1st appearence in preview advertisement/mag publication." So, essentially the preview appearance will never negate the "1st app in comics." UNLESS... you get a preview that is inserted in a retail newsstand or direct copy of a priced comic book (IE. ASM 365). Previews mags serve a purpose. Most of them are free. The ones that aren't free still are an advertising magazine, similar to a Wizard or a Becket for cards. But when a preview is actually added to a canonical comic publication, it blurs the line, and this is why ASM 365 is usually considered the actual 1st app of Spidey 2099 IN COMICS.
Do I personally agree with that? Ehhh... It definitely rides a fine line, but at the end of the day.... it still is.... just a preview.
Exactly - you can't say they're not 1st appearance as they are literally the 1st appearance - however most don't count it as it doesn't effect story. Most consider story effecting appearances to be 1st appearances )which I tend to agree with)
make this a series man! I feel like there's a bunch of questionable "first appearances"
I'm thinking of doing that! there's a LTO of books people get wrong - especially with Marvel books I've noticed
@@MintHunterComics Yoda is another…
I think people just don't agree with what defines a "first appearance". Like how some people say Hulk 180 is the first cameo appearance of wolverine and Hulk 181 is the first full appearance.
I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure the publication date on magazines does not include the 3 month lag that was built in for comics newsstand returns.
It doesn't always but here it was a 3 month advance
I was only a kid back then 1984 . I did not collect comics until 1989 my amazing spider man 300. I got it now
You grabbed it when ya did!
I really wish I had watched this video a couple of weeks ago! There was a huge argument going on Facebook about this situation. I could have saved my fingers a lot of typing, because you have completely nailed it in this one! A lot of younger collectors assume Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance because it DOES show up in story form there first. But, for some insane reason, Jim Shooter had the Secret Wars book as a monthly title and had the resolution issues to the story coming out at the same time the first issue came out! So, as a kid, we were all trying to figure out what Secret Wars would actually be. It seemed like a deal where heroes and villains would clash and the winners would get a wish or something. For Spidey, he showed up with the black suit, which could do pretty much everything he always did except he wouldn't have to make web shooter fluid all the time. Thing became human and was on some alien world. It was kind of a mess. And by the time Secret Wars #8 came out, the symbiote had been revealed as a living entity and it made the reveal of the suit kind of lackluster. He was already in red and blue again.
As to actual comic appearance history, yes, Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the first. Those preview appearances are historical and have value because they pre-dated the actual appearance. But, as far as comics history goes, Amazing #252 is the way to go.
If this comes up gain, I'll just share this video and save myself some time.
I was 13 years old and always remembered Amazing Spiderman 252 as the first appearance, then next for me was Secret Wars 8...
it keeps sounding like a info comercial-"but WAIT, there's MORE, because we know you want MORE" ROFLMFAO.
BUT WAIT There's ANOTHERRRR Preview! lolol
That's why you need one of each.
Hahahaha sounds expensive!
Beautiful 9.8 Newsstand of ASM 252!! 🕷🕸
Why thank you - submitted and pressed myself!
Interesting review of history of black suit...
Thanks Don! I put a lot of work into this project!
Awesome man. Love the way you produce this. Keep it up spidey 🕷️
You almost at 6k!!!
My birthday is next Tuesday and will also be the 1 year anniversary of this channel - it looks like I'll hit it before my birthday!
@@MintHunterComics that’s awesome happy early birthday
Might be a million black suits but there's only one peter parker
Amen
Completely agree about ASM 365 vs 2099 #1 - Previews don't count!
I'm inclined to agree!
Not a first appearance but a cool black suit issue. Spider-Man had to wear his black costume during his Transformers 3 team-up to differentiate from his Secret Wars action figure due to toy copyrights. Technically his third appearance in the suit but it wasn’t originally planned that way.
I thought about mentioning transformers 3 but I decided against it - another cool piece of the history!
If the previews are considered first appearance, will yes. But in cameo form. The Preview books is just that, they talk about the character and shows you a picture of what the character might look like. But what if you get preview strips of the story with the character, then would that be the first appearance?
I think it might! A debate for the ages
Damn my boy! You went ABOVE AND BEYOND with this one!👏👏
Hahaha thank you thank you, I'm glad it's noticed!
I need to get a Secret Wars 8 because I know it will just keep climbing.
I don't understand the prices of that book. That's still like a $400 9.8 to me lol
Just sold one of my SW8 CGC 9.8’s for $700 USD. Will hold on to the other one I have graded, as I agree it will just continue to climb. Waiting for Secret Wars to be announced for the MCU!
@@tshew1 I bought an 8.5 less than a year ago for $100 it's now worth $250.
@@Tom8683-r2b nice.. ‘ya, it’s pretty insane. The ones I have, I paid $1 CAD for, but that was when they came out! Lol
Previews should never count except for completionist purposes. If I have a preview ad for the new Air Jordans, that doesn’t mean I can tell people I own the new Air Jordans.
9:28 Neither of those books are the “first true appearance of Spider-man”
lol
Sometimes I don't even know which one is the actual 1st appearance, It's like if I see an old comic with the black suit spidey that was the 1st appearance to me! And that editor was lucky buying it for $220 lmao
Hahaha exactly right?
Well now that you explained it, I now finally know the right one! hahahaha
Nice video, well researched, informative and entertaining. Also, nice shirt.
Much appreciated!
Better to take into account canonically where they appear first. X-Men Annual 14 and UXM 266 for first appearance Gambit. Even though the Annual arrived on shelves first, UXM 266 is the first true appearance.
Secret Wars 8 for mine is the 'true' first, but all of them books are worth having to be honest :)
Now this is true - it SHOULD have been Secret Wars 8
I was a kid during this time and 252 is the officail 1st appearance mtu141 came out later. great content.
Thanks man! A lot of research went into this
Great video man, this stuff is always so confusing... Plus you could throw in Marvel Spotlight 9 if you wanted to get crazy with it. However, ASM 252 is the one I would pick up.
Agreed! and thanks
All I can say is great discussion in general. I always think the person in question needs to be a part of the story/plot.
Thanks Craig! this was a blast to research and produce!
Thrilled both copies I bought at 7-11 in '84 came back 9.8 couple years ago, same with my X-Men 266.
Wow - good books to have!
I got my ASM 252 at a flea market. Near Mint. Me and my brother both... yeah, their was a WHOLE box of ASM 252 at least 200 issues stacked on top of each other for $2 a piece back in 2007.
Still the craziest story I have and nothing will top it. My brother knew what it was. (The importance of the issue) and told our Mom she needed to buy all of them... she said no.
Edit: I was only 10
UGH! I feel your pain Bro! :(
DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN BRUHHHHHHH
@@MintHunterComics
He remembers to this day. People honestly believe I make this stuff up until I call him to confirm it.
1st appearance in a story usually counts as a first appearance to me, however chronologically I can see how that can be a first appearance as well. The 3 spider-man books do tie as the first appearance, which i bought off the newsstand however the first chronological appearance is Secret Wars 8, which I bought months later if I recall. Always wondered where that suit came from during that period until the secret wars series came out.
Interesting! I thought that secret wars 8 and Asm 252 was tied for the 1st appearance.
SW 8 came out many months later in Dec of 1984 (heavily delayed)
I remember when ASM 252 came out, but nobody is mentioning everyone HATED it. The black suit was a total dud. I don't remember anyone going crazy over this idea / book.
ASM 252 is the first black suit because it is part of the main storyline of that book. Previews are not part of a story, they are just a visual and therefore not first appearances. Even if the black suit appears in a story, it has to be part of the main storyline of that book or it is just a cameo -- like Hulk 180. (Don't @ me)
Well done!
Why thank you!
I got my AMS 300 in middle school LOL!!
Nice!
Asm 252 is the first appearance, I was in my lcs the day it came out in February
Correct!
I remember the 6 o'clock news showing the cover for ASM 252 hyping Spiderman's new costume. So for me, that's the first appearance.
I'm one of those collectors who was buying everything comic book related during that time. I have everything you mentioned, and paid cover price , including 10 copies of ASM 252, so, essentially have no real $'s a stake. Consequently, previews are just that, previews. My vote ASM 252 !
Damn man! you got it all!
At the end of the day. People want the first appearance in amazing. 252 is definitely the best cover.
Thanks
No problem xoxo
Right on!
Xoxoxo
Here in the Netherlands we got the Spiderman first, then the Secret Wars that's it haha!
Secret Wars was heavily delayed so that matches up here too!
Comics Journal #85... Now I know... and knowing is half the battle!!! Personally when I was buying the books when they came out, it was Amazing Spider-man 298 (First McFarlane in ASM) that was considered the First Appearance of Venom. Then they got technical and used words like "Cameo" vs. "Appearance". ASM 298 vs. ASM 299 vs, ASM 300. I do agree that #300 has the BEST COVER. But in my heart, ASM 298 will always be, in MY humble opinion, the first appearance of Venom.
I think that's the first cameo of Eddie, not the full Venom but I may be a bit rusty
@@MintHunterComics RE: ASM 298 Marvel Fandom.com has: "Other Characters: Venom (Eddie Brock) (First appearance as Venom) (Shadow only)" It's similar to Wolverine's first Appearance: Incredible Hulk 180 or 181?
I think Amazing Spider-Man 252 first comics appearance.
Most would agree!
My guess is the black suit first appears in Green Lantern Corps Quarterly 8.
Edit: I was way off.
LOL! you burned me haha
It was a idea sent in by a fan
Indeed (I mentioned that in this video)
The First time I saw the Black Suit in Transformers #1 and I was so confused. I thought it was a gimmick for the Transformers books but then it came out in the ASM
They're calling it Heroes Hotline #"8312" because it was from December, 1983. (19)83...12(for December).
Ahhhhhhhhh that'd do it
Secret wars 8 is the first black suit. Mostly because I have one 😂
Ah but it came out in December! Which is months and months and months after all this!
Bunch of Marvel Age issues have “previews” in them ... Even Miles Morales is in a similar situation.
The age old question hahaha
Great Video...It's absolutely ASM 252 though...it's nice to have the previews though for the PC...my fave of the previews is MA 12 just because the white parts are red which Jim Shooter revealed recently was actually a mistake. Wouldn't mind having a CJ 85 tho...but I'm a 9.8 snob when it comes to modern/copper books and that one is very hard to find in that condition.
I agree - I actually changed my mind about ASM 252 through my research - I thought I'd prove it wasn't the 1st app but now more than ever I'm convinced that it is
I didn't know about the previews and now I need them lol thanks
Hahaha more to add to the bill! lol
I have been telling people this for years! Awesome video James!
ASM 252 came out 2 weeks before - you're right!
Yes I love this episode James thank you I've been kind of confusing figure out which one's what
My pleasure! this was a blast to make
Why $220 ...kind of a weird number
True - odd
Great question! I was a collector prior to 1984, but without digressing too much, I never bought new issues! I had a whole stack before I bought my first new issue: 257. I remember reading that issue, in it Spider-man briefly thinks about the Black Cat and I thought it meant she was dead. ( I confused her for Gwen Stacy, remember, we had no internet then.)
Anyway, in order to work out what was going on, I started buying back issues of Peter Parker and Marvel Team Up. My point is: I bought Spectacular 90 and Marvel Team up 141 at COVER price even six months later, whereas I could not find 252 anywhere. So I can definitely tell you how the initial reaction went!
I have similar stories about how the market reacted to 121, 122, 129 and 200. 200 was in the Dollars and Sense (Ridgewood) dollar box, multiple copies, NO BAGS. As for the others...
I bought 252 off the spinner rack before the other two books. I do remember their releases being staggered like that because I collected all 3 titles. Also, there's another issue of Amazing Heroes with a black suit preview. (It also has a Turtles preview, so very good book.)
Nice! and yes that aligns with my research - 141 and 90 came out 2 weeks later :)
@@MintHunterComics yep, and Amazing Heroes 45 is the other preview. Great vid, by the way. I love your humor.
@@reedcomics8196 Thank you my man! xoxoxoxo
Great video James. 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Issue 8312 presumably refers to December 1983.
ASM 252 has always beig the first black suit. (In mine opinion) and it has olso one of my favourite .
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
Yes ASM 252 was first.. We were not worrying about previews back then. But NCBD was Friday in 84. Feb 2 was a Thursday and Feb 14 was a Tuesday. These books were not released on 2 different days of the week.
Exactly! came 2 weeks prior to the other ones in the "three way tie" so really it's the first app and those other two are tied for second!
Wasn’t NCBD not set at that point in time and that it was regionally dependent?
ASM 252! Marvel Age is closest previous, but they were just sketches, not in a story, and not final drawings, suite changed.
I tend to agree!
Awesome channel. I just moved and dug out my comics that I haven't touched but once since I collected in the 80's. I have the collecting bug again, oh crap. Anyway, saw that I have ASM 252... probably in a 9.2 or 9.4.. which is amazing since I bought it off the shelf as a kid and read it a couple times. Also had X-men 101 in a 8.5 or 9.0 that I picked up for like $10 in 1985. Kinda bummed that I can't find my ASM 300.. I think I gave it to my brother in like 2002 to hang on his bonus room wall.. good luck getting it back lol.
I just made my first submission to CGC ever.. 35 books, wish me luck. :)
Thanks auto! And good luck on the CGC submit!!!
Hey James thanks for the awesome video!! Just picked up a Batman detective comics 667 newsstand!! 🔥 thought you might be the only other guy that would appreciate that!
Oh hell yeah! Hahaha I always like DC books like.that!
GREAT VIDEO. As someone who was there when it happened.........I cannot remember WHEN or HOW I knew the black suit was coming, but it was not a surprise to see that black suit appear on that stunning cover of issue #252. What I do remember was my teenage self carefully selecting and buying 3 copies of it. I still have Comics Scene magazines from around that era. If I find something there of relevance, I will for sure post it here. For sure I do not remember finding the news in any of preview magazines you highlighted. It was pre-internet of course, so I am thinking the announcement that this was coming must have made its way to the TV news at the time. This is a seriously interesting piece of history, thanks for putting this together.
Thanks for sharing Minuteman! must have been cool to be around that time - the best thing my generation had was Bane breaking bats back! haha
@@MintHunterComics All I can add is.....it was a magical time. My main collecting era was late 79 (Rom #1 time frame is my point of reference) til approx 1988. So many great memories still today.
It was ASM#252 as i went nits looking for extra copies of it all over but i was late on the week that it came out and only got 9 copies. Once i saw that comic i knew that it would be big. Then i kept an eye out for other appearances and grabed 40+ copies of SW#8. I have a few copies each of PP and MTU but did not believe that they were as big as the others.
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
Why is Secret War #8 not considered a suit?
It is! But it came 6 months after all of these
I got ams 252 as a kid and thought I had just missed the explanation for the black suit from secret wars I had no idea secret wars black suit came out after 252
ASM 252 is the book I consider the first black suite appearance. Aside from it being released first it has the better cover which I feel breaks the tie haha. As for first appearances it tough. I do feel that there should be some guidelines to what is considered a true first appearance. Venom’s first is not 300. ASM 299 has a full page spread with his name. It makes no sense besides the fact that 300 has the better cover. Wolverine is another one that’s just as bad. Unfortunately it seems that the market dictates the first appearances. Great video!
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
I was alive and buying comics then, 252 was my first time seeing it on the news stand, thinking WTF is this?!? Then MTU came shortly after.
Hahaha "what's the deal here?" I bet!
Previews dont count as the first appearance. The first appearance in comicbook is the actual one. In my opinion.
I'm inclined to agree, in my head I'm still thinking ASM 252
To me previews and concept art don’t count. A first appearance should be part of a comic book story.
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
Comics Journal #85 seems to be the winner for me. If you toss out previews yes it would be #252 !
Thanks for the input! I could go either way but I lean a bit towards 252
We (us crazy collectors) are getting ridiculous with these first appearance arguments. It was already bad with the cameo VS first "full" appearance arguments. Now we're considering previews? What's next? Next issue previews that show a cover with a new character? Ads? Names? What if we get a name drop preview at the end of an issue like, "next month, who is the mysterious Mysterio" or whatever? Shouldn't that count???
That slab you have on your table is the definitive 1st appearance of the black suit, or should be anyway. Previews and all that other jazz are cool, but something different. And in my opinion, cameos are true first appearances!
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though!
Previews don't count as 1st appearances. Period. They are trade publications and not actual continuity stories. It's apples and oranges. Trade publications were plentiful and never worth anything. People with stacks of them decided to try to make them 1st appearances by pushing this so they can make some money. 1st appearances are only IN STORY.
I tend to agree! Depends on who ya ask though
Good historical timeline of the black suit. Definitely not going to call ads oor previews forst appearances -- that is SSSTTTRRREEEETTTTCCCCHHHHIIIINNNNNGGGG. And I don't know what the controversy is - people already know that ASM 252 came out first -- it even says on the cover. I remember picking it up as a kid, then the others.
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though!
Thanks for this content, always worth the watch and love the spec on the spec perspective! IMHO, ASM252 is the book. The rest, including those previews not published by Marvel, sorry they just don’t cut it. I’ll stick with 252, 300 and SW8 as the keys to delivering this character. Main storyline was pencilled in only those three books… the rest are just by association, be it publication date or insider news.
Even though Marvel age 12 is a marvel release? That might change the game a bit!
@@MintHunterComics Marvel Age isn’t character story-related, it’s news, articles, artwork and gossip (aka industry Insider info) therefore shouldn’t count as far as intro, appearance or origin. Also think CGC should replace the, “Ties with Team up 141”. Team-up is true second appearance based on your research.
Well since the only one of those I own is ASM 252, I consider that the real first appearance. Lol
Hahahahaha I love this
Wow you got a lot of work I just picked Marvel age issue 12 at a 9.6 but I don't think I would go after those other previewed it was only a panel
I think the Marvel age 12 preview is my fav - it's multiple pics and has coloring and a story behind it
Super interesting my man! It's very debatable. I mean, if single panels or quick references to a new character is considered a 1st cameo, wouldn't previews we classed as the actual 1st cameo?
I don't really go for the previews. To learn what's coming out in the future, yeah. But to collect, I prefer the actual comics. Because there's never really much of a story in the previews.
However, in terms of investment - if the market decides previews are gold - then for sure, I'm locking them up in my safe.
Thanks for doing all the detailed research. I did always wonder about the 1st app of the black suit. 🤘
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though!