I just love how an orochi can basically do all this and be fine on stam, but I try to go offensive with lawbro and go into cardiac arrest with a single mixup
The weirdest part about the deflect pin to me is that the whole multi deflect with the heavy followup feint was kind of Orochis signature style move, having that incorporated via recovery cancels to make it an actually viable thing instead of just flex would have been great.
@@nathanielrenteria9669 its noy about being better though, its about the flex. As he said, the double deflect was orochi signature move and very satisfying to pull off
@@jequiti6057 I have 42 reps into orochi and I have barely ever used the heavy deflect because it was worthless a mediocre trade tool at best not a signature move people just started calling it that because y’all wanted something to complain about
The only problems I have with the rework are needing to make 7 reads to punish his bash, and the hyper armor cracking deflect, they should have just left the heavy and light inputs for the deflect.
orochi's is probably the testing phase for the devs if it receives a lot positive feedback which I think majority of the playerbase likes then it will be the standard tech for deflects in the future which honestly should've been the case ages ago
@@marzialalfonzocanada888 I actually like the deflects being fast, chaining into each other. Interrupting hyper armor is very strong yes. And I use it very much when fighting heroes like raider and zerk but it brings the fight to a complete stop. Which I dont like. Everything else about his rework makes flow
This rework feels like it doesn’t belong in this game. No other hero is on par with what this hero can do, not even close. He has a high skill ceiling, but he’s downright oppressive when you’re facing someone who’s reached that.
Raider is probably worse at the moment, due to his high damage mixups as well as his ability in teamfights being miles ahead of orochi. Orochi would barely reach top five right now, maybe not even.
Returned to the game to try new orochi. Very first round in duel: "Orochi mains light spamming as always" Said Raider pressing zone attack 4 times in a row
I agree that the light spam argument is fairly annoying now but I’ve played on old gen consoles for a long time and some times it really is unbearable unless you’ve got a hyper armor hero especially with higher latency people.
Honestly it baffles me that everyone keeps ignoring completely the old gen population like they don't matter, even though they are the majority by a large margin. Indeed, the experience on old gen consoles with normal setups is getting worse and worse for the benefit of next gen and pc. Perhaps for the best, who knows, sometimes it's better to move on, but it's an undeniable reality.
@@srafnos2073 well I still think Pc has a bigger base but yeah I terms of console I do think more have the old console I got my series x earlier this year and a majority of my friends have as well but we got lucky. I wish they would put a metric out like the steam hardware surveys to see who’s playing on what. I doubt it would do anything since the devs don’t play the game anyway and just listen to who’s the loudest and a blind dart throwing game to determine what little task to do next
@@srafnos2073 also yeah when battlefield and halo release I’m giving my console to my brother and using my pc I upgraded for my job( gotta love a tax right off) and I’m gonna drop for honor cause I don’t see the major issues being fixed any time soon(revenge, feats, horrible flashbang/blinding UI, flicker being back. Slow update cycle etc)
High latency is brutal but console just has a more aggressive meta which isn’t that bad especially with the tons of hyper armor just makes deflects a little harder
@@jojoa694 oh that’s cool to know, I don’t have a PlayStation or own it on pc so that’s just something I never see. No wonder youtubers run into the same people all the time thanks
Freeze always sounds passive aggressive for some reason. On a different note, I've noticed that some people spam bash into forward rushing tide combo, and the timing of it is very difficult to manage. Is this consistent with others?
@@fkkfreeze passive aggressive doesn't mean offensive, but he's got a point.. at least this is my impression too. sometimes you make some comments just to flame some casual gamer out there that pissed you off with his nonsense... I enjoy your content but sometimes there's unnecessary dissing to "bad" players that doesn't bring the discussion anywhere that's it. now I don't think there anything in this video to blame you for I particular so maybe op just doesn't like you and it's just a kid trying to pick up a fight
Only change they need to do is make it so Orochi can’t get away scot free after making a mistake. Aka, the infamous kick cancel. This man can punish you for rightfully punishing his bash. So honestly, they should probably just remove the attack on whiff, and lower recovery. It’s not a severe nerf because every other character’s bashes work the same way.
"rightfully"... good grief Let's have the Orochi just die after whiffing a kick. Seems just fair... have god smite him down for daring to press a button.
@@fkkfreeze Nah don’t worry chief. It’s just a dodge attack worth of damage. Unless I missed something and Ubi buffed all dodge attacks to Senbonzakura damage.
@@fkkfreeze I mean by this logic no attacks should be punishable and the first person to throw an attack should win, right? Should Warlord's bash allow him to chain into his all guard or superior lights to punish you for dare punishing his whiffed headbutt.
@@kaijuslayer3334 this man said “rightfully” like dodging a bash isn’t cause to get punished in for honor😂 with freezes logic let’s just make all bashes whiff chain into anything we want
@@mspaffles9665 in my opinion it's way better to chain into stuff on whiff than being invulnerable to GB like warlord or conq, BP 90% of the time. If orochi does nothing after whiff he can't counter gb. BP can just stay there and counter GB. Which is boring af
Black prior is doing this shit since years ago and no one complains, try dodge attack a BP unblockable and he can still bulwark counter it. But with Orochi is way harder, if you think its easy for the orochi to pull off a deflect after a whiffed bash, you're very wrong, it must be done on read and the timing is super strict. Its not like all Orochis in the game are doing this.
@@joao.destro Just because BP does it, doesn't mean it's ok lmfao. Ubi are too lazy to fix these shits. but anyway, we all know that they LOVE knights so fucking much, so they'll never change that on BP
@@joao.destro bp can not cancel unblockable recovery into bulwark stance. U can dodge attack bp unblockables all day. Only attacks he can cancel recovery into bulwark is all his lights, dodge and heavy(not including unblockable)
If any deflect were to break hyper armor it should've been Galdiator's since it's a hit-grab of sorts and does no damage aside from the bleed it applies.
Great video, but I have a thought... So, if this is ok to punish a correct read, can we make warden, warmonger and cent bashes chainable on wiff with no GB vulnerability? What do you mean this is unbalanced, JuSt MaKe A DoUbLe ReAd BrO!
I mean tbh. She doesn’t need an undodgable imo. But she should interrupt HA with deflect, all it does is inflict bleed and small damage for a potential bite. Otherwise it’s not that good. She should be one of the characters in the game able to interrupt HA. Don’t get me wrong she still good, but with my play style I like that deflect to be more useful than it is.
I'd just like to say I like how everyone hated gryphon because him being able to attack after missing a bash made him nearly unpunishable and they nerfed that ability. But then gave that save powerful ability to 4 other heroes lol
On the deflect beating hyperarmor thing: The main reason people want deflects to defeat hyperarmor imo, is purely because of how deflects are generally more difficult to do than simply blocking/dodging/parrying, and one hero in particular, Gladiator, essentially not having a deflect at all against hyperarmor opponents. Of course, they feel much easier now, especially on the sides, which makes be believe they may have changed the priority of deflect frames vs i-frames on the side dodges. Orochi at least already has all his deflects able to be lights, just before he had the option of a pinning heavy as well, which took forever, had hyperarmor, and was able to be dodged. Overall though, Gladiator, the main Assassin people want to have their deflects interrupting HA, still can't do anything about it unless they opt to not get a deflect and just bash instead since their deflect will just bounce off of somebody with active HA. Orochi didn't need this one, and could have instead just gotten the shaman treatment (which you brought up Shaman's ability to deflect HA opponents repeatedly) since they made him be able to cancel recoveries everywhere else.
The deflect talk was accurate. I disliked it when PK’s got changed to her dodge heavy and I dislike that orochi’s move is somehow a pin that beats hyper armor simply because the devs said so. There are better ways to improve deflects than to just make them beat everything. In the meantime, buff nuxia’s deflect please, devs.
Okay except deflects and superior block dodges are the same mechanic but superior block dodge stop HA and are always confirmed making them just better deflects on better designed characters
@@liamcivil5978 Fully agree. Conq's dodge is infinitely stronger than any assassin's. CC lights are just better deflects and safer too. (deflect attempt is punished by feint to typically light parry or feint to gb. CC light is punished by feint to super difficult, sometimes impossible, light parry; dodge attack; or nothing on block.)
3:00 "people don't like it when people press buttons" (regarding Orochi's bash recovery) Alright, so I had an observation the other day. Orochi: 500 ms bash which can be dodge recovery canceled on whiff or hit, chains into lights, unblockable heavy, etc. Also, some characters have delayable dodge attacks, but not all of them do. Newer heroes and reworks are moving towards fixed dodge attack input timings. We'll see if that continues. Some players #notall: lemme press buttons bro just make the right reads on top of the other reads Shinobi (pre rework): his kick is very reactable, extremely telegraphed, making it a poor offensive tool, but can be dodge canceled. It is a purely defensive tool. It does not allow him to chain into light, only ranged heavy, which sucks because it's unfeintable, slow, and guarantees a lot of damage when parried. However we do know Shinobi is a hot mess of mechanics, so he too, depending on whether you do a dodge attack, can easily deflect it, backflip (which correct me if I'm wrong is not GB vulnerable) but overall since all the nerfs most options deal little damage. Oh I guess the guaranteed 4 damage. Conclusion: utter bs, shouldn't be allowed, etc, why have a slow kick you can't punish, I know some of those comments/sentiments towards Shinobi are old (especially of the rework passes) but like what changed? We had a character who could do a kick and against a good player it could be very hard to hit him since he could dodge, backflip or deflect. My opinion if characters have bashes that even upon missing can do all that then that should be the standard, why is gryphon not allowed to continue on whiff but more and more reworked characters can? Zhanhu, shugoki, Jiang Jung, Orochi, and maybe more in the future? I just want consistency honestly, and if a character can't chain on bash whiff then I would like a good reason why they can't.
To be honest I've waited for this for years... even stopped playing since my main was absolutely dreadful to use since I refuse to spam lights and orochis kit couldn't keep up with the most commonly used/newly released heroes.
finnaly he is strong for once, and its safe and fair to say that it is his FIRST rework, since last one was a big XD from ubi. so yea finally after so many years last champion from regular roster got a rework, and the best part is that he did not get anything special or out of the box in comparsion to what other heroes have, but since he was always most hated and kind of a ifyoumadonagamejustblameorochi then his rework making him strong provides butthurt in full effect.
In my opinion either superior block dodges need to be brought down to deflect level or deflects need to go up to superior block level there’s no reason to have non assassin characters that have a re-branded deflects that’s just outright better because it’s reliable and works every time and stops HA every time. HA should stop trades such as trying to poke someone out of combo or early dodge attack but not defeat deflects.
I won't say i despise the changes, i always thought that orochi should have been the dodge recovery hero after a combo but some of his new stuff are just stupid. He has so many options now to get out impossible situations that is just laughable, his kick move with everything that comes with it is just the pick of the iceberg, his zone attack in fact grants him to counter many crushing counters present in the game (only a bunch of specific ones are safe to do). As i said, i like the rework and his new recovery sistem but he really needs some tweaks for him to be balanced.
In order to do that, he’d need tough skin so as not to get aggressive at the countless feedback, or else job goes bye. Which is something he’s not the best at
Such a good hero now but definitely agree about the deflect, shouldn't reward mindless dodging, also they moved to read based so why have something like this, make reads and be rewarded for matchup knowledge not a lucky dodge attack that caught the deflect window instead
Is there a point in making a new video about max punishments or the old ones are still relevant? Returned in the game after a year's pause, didn't follow the changes
I'm rewatching this video and remember when Orochi had 2 chain 400ms lights. His chain light and his top finisher light. I guess Orochi's recent rework makes up for it, but he is hated more now for being able to punish people if the Orochi makes a read.
They just need to give lb hyper armor on his forward bash and he’ll do fine but also make its recovery slower and think he would be in a solid state like A TEIR maybe make his impale unblockable after a parry but that might be too much.
shaolin needs something that changes his urge to just spam light and heavy. if quick enough, you can just stab him out of his stance or wait for his dodge attack. highlander probably needs 1 or 2 more options to start his chain or get into his other stance. Since double hyper armor lights are also very tempting to just spam. lawbringer needs his shove hyper armor and maybe rework his long arm like they did with shugoki hug. So its more viable. Or a turned down Hitokiri kick.
Hey freeze, a question: the zone attack has a blue light, but it isn’t undodgeable… Or is it? 100% agree on what you said about deflects, we should probably be able to change, decide ourselves the deflect followup input for characters that have only one (meaning, not zhanhu). And I absolutely dislike the ability of Orochi to interrupt hyperarmour on deflects, a solution like shaman’s would have made more sense, especially on a character that can evade most hyperarmoured attacks now just by dodging after any attack lands. Not a fan of the low recovery on the bash whiff, but it’s not up to me to decide. If they nerfed it on whiff and and buffed it on hit, imagine Orochi basically “jumping” from the chest of an opponent to another in team fights, deflecting peeling attempts xD Thinking about it, here comes to mind the importance of more features to remap controller. I’ve recently started using more mouse and key (must take a mechanical keyboard though, the one I have is a kinda old membrane one) mostly because on controller I got so much angry when I entered fullblock by mistake (dead zone of 3, I need it). I’ve never used the “reset camera button”, never felt the need to, since to target swap I simply double click my LT/L2 trigger.
For some reason I think they brought back the blue weapon glow for chain attacks, specifically for the zone or something. Maybe we'll see a comeback of this visual effect in the future? Not that it really does much
Oh look another person complaining about CCU rather than just accepting how many things it solved, you going to get upset about not being able to 3 hit someone next aswell or what?
@@sydious_s_snake The game was fun before ccu, like the highlander, who is now just light attack spam for everyone playing him. We are at the point where, I return on the game for one 1vs1, I beat a rep 176 without using light attack and he came to say me "thanks for this fight". I don't think you played ccu on old gen men, I can't even react to parry nubushi's light attack anymore, the game became even worse than before. I really don't understand how peoples can like these changes, especially the red mark 100ms later, I don't even understand why they did that.
That’s incredibly stupid, what your asking for is for FH to make deflects damn near impossible for console players or anyone who isn’t in grandmaster rank
If anything, pk or nuxia’s deflects should stop hyper armour, not orochis (especially since he has a bash). Also i agree that i hate that they changed pk’s deflect to be on same button as dodge attack. I preferred having it on seperate buttons
The chances of getting a "lucky" deflect is much smaller the brains of people that throws safe hyper armor heavys, and thats a very small brain i'm talking about. Just because you got your lights deflected, it does't mean it was a lucky dodge attack. I can consistently deflect light attacks.
@@liamcivil5978 and that's stupid on many levels. But I don't complain about it, it's MY opinion that braindead HA combos is stupid, but if I have a move that can counter that, I'll gladly use it. Or should I just sit there and block trough all the chain, only for my enemy to get frame advantage and start all over again, forcing me to parry?
I played only Orochi for the last 4 reps to get a cool colour and finally reached it and quit Orochi for life just before this update and I really don't want to start learning him again but he seems alot more fun now ughhh
great video freeze, now the opinion you didnt ask for.. i really like that the deflect beats hiperarmor, and i think that pk should have it too and maybe Glad, to be honest, the same thing as why superior block dogues beats the atack too beacuse they interrupt all atacks they """ deflect""" BUT i fully agree that the dogue atack should be in a different Atack input that then the deflect atacks for the most part, i m really happy with Orochis rework, now it feels like we have a complete Assasing counter atackee that push itself in to his offense and promote a gameplan of reads for the atacker and for the defender
But glads deflect grabs the opponent so it makes sense why he should have it. It's the same way beserkers deflect can interrupt all attacks because he guardbreaks the opponent.
Personally I don't think orochi or pk needs their deflects to interrupt attacks. Considering orochi's already insane recoveries I don't see why they can't just do the same with his deflect. But that's my opinion.
I think that it is a terrible idea to switch the deflect and give it its own button because I play on playstation and a change like that would be unbearable. Especially since I can't get 100% control over control mapping. I've got dodge as L1 and R3 for Guardbreak and X for Sprint but I really want to make L3 my zone attack. Adding a deflect button will force it onto the left or right stick as L3 or R3 since you have to dodge into it at the same time that you press it
@@ChrisAssassin dude i play on a controller, ¿how would be unbearable? is literally the same input as a doge atack light or heavy, but if your doge atack is a heavy, your deflect should be the light atack, and vice versa, so you predict the deflect and wast a "accident" doge atack, but i would like to have the posibility to doge atack from a deflec to be honest if you wanna atack with L3 ip to you mate, but wtf would you wanna do that?
@@rightousnesspursuer6523 i would say that they do, to be honest and pk dont have that recovery like shaman does and it is not a chain starter either, deflect are riskier than superior block doges and they literaly do the same mechanically, I would consider that they DONT BEAT hiper armor if they WORKED in unblockables, so then now they have a diferent property than superior block dogues as they would lose vs unblocks
Yeah my biggest problem with orochi is the same problem I had with PK's deflect change, but his also beats hyper armor. Personally I was hoping since they were removing heavy deflect they would move the new deflect into old heavy input. Along with that though now that they put his improved deflect as his dodge light input and made it beat hyper armor im less impressed when I see him deflect because it could very easily just been another random dodge attack.
very good rework, was much needed for a very poor hero. Agree with the deflect thing, I think its weird that it pins, when noone else's does. Other than that freeze, is there anything else about the rework you would change?
Me as a Cent trying to get a 500 ms light attack off so I can start a combo: Orochi: hold my dodge recovery cancel.. Edit: im a rep 40 cent 370 ish total and I use almost all moves in the kit (zone isn't worth it. 1st attack is 15 dmg and 2nd almost always gets parried lol, and u lose half your stam so its def not worth it. I win most of my fights but 50/50 spam and light spam makes even starting a conbo difficult. Hito/Zhan hu/orochi/raider/pk/nuxia i can kinda parry but pk is a mf demon with them soft feints. 0lease believe im very good at FH but even on series X Lights are an issue as sometimes the hit indicater doesn't even pop up on time. All my OGs know what I'm talking about.
If you faced a perfect Orochi, technically he could lock you in his combo until he runs out of stamina. This isn't very likely to happen in For Honor, but if we were a larger fighting game community, like SFV or Guilty Gear, that would absolutely happen at the higher level. The idea that something isn't broken if it's difficult to perform only holds up among weak players. For this reason, I don't like the changes, as they may have a bad impact at the competitive level making Orochi too much of a beast in 1v1 scenarios.
What if his damage was also adjusted to accommodate for the number of opportunities for his offense? To me, Orochi seems to fall in line with characters in fighting games that have easy to access approaches to their kit, safe pokes, and strong defense tools at the cost of low HP and less damage potential off their combos.
@@vapor_snake920 i don't think so, regardless of what the damage is what people see will still be "i made the correct he was going to kick, used the tool the devs gave every single character in order to punish bashes and yet got punished for it", i personally believe removing the ability to dodge cancel out of the bash's recoveries is best course of action
Its a good rework its just get tiresome facing orochi every match constantly especially when his mixup is so hard to punish, also has a lot of different options basically a 1 in 5 and then on kick punish its another 1 in 5, either a light top heavy (with its own mixup) heavy into gb or nothing
you can try and hit him with a side light before they doge forward if you have trouble with it. i know is not perfect but sometimes changing from reactive to proactive really helps to deal with some heroes
@@vicio19995 on reaction to orochi doing a forward dash you can only hit him out of storm rush nothing more it also applies if he tries the mixup from a recovery cancel, its best to just observe how he does stuff for a few turns and then just give your best shot at reads
@@kielbasamage as a raider main, raider has always been annoying but any character with a crushing counter completely shuts raider down since that storming tap is suicide
really a sad thing about the deflect pinning now. the hyper armour counter to deflects (now that few attacks have hyper armour, and its mostly in chains) added the need for some brain power before blindly smashing deflect.
The only thing i have with every rework in recent time's are the animation's, with Orochi for exemple they could have used that knee strike from one of his execution's it has a better flow from dodge and recovery cancel instead of this flying kick that he do out of nowhere.
I agree, Orochi's deflect shouldn't beat HA. I think it would be so much better if Orochi could chain deflects against opponents who spam without thinking. So higher skill players could still "beat" HA with reads and "bad" players still eat the combo attack since they buffered the combo light.
I disagree. It should be the way it is now. People never had an issue with Berzerker getting a deflect GB that ignores HA. Getting a free hit in because you input a heavy that has HA is far easier then deflecting a light.
@@ivanbenja4 You can't just compare heroes to other heroes like that. Sure, no one had an issue with raider having hyper armour on his heavies, but that doesn't mean that every hero should have hyper armour on their heavies. Or a full block stance with BP's flip. Or undodgeable and unblockable finishers. I'd think chaining deflects would've been super cool-looking with orochi. It's not like he'd be weak without the hyper armour beating.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 Yeah you can compare them. Certain things should be the standard in all heroes. Lights in all heroes do less damage then heavies. Deflecting and getting slapped with a follow up because some dude input an attack and got HA, is stupid. Because by that logic, deflecting (which is hard to begin with) can only be done on chain finishers safely if the finisher isn't unblockable, or the hero doesn't have HA.... Which is dumb.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 If you think that it takes less thinking, to time a deflect, then it is to press 2 buttons in sequence, idk what to tell you.
i hate how his deflect is on the light dodge button. i liked his heavy deflect beecause i could dodge and press heavy every time i didged without getting punished
Personally I guess I dont think his rework is too bad, he just gets away with too much, I'm not some high level player or anything im decent at best, but I personally cant react to all of these 500-300 ms attacks constantly, and even when I do I get punished for it, I think that's a little dumb, the only thing I can do is pray I parry something or wait until they run out of stamina. Having enhanced lights on every dodge attack, having a 32 damage heavy that cant be punished with a dodge attack, and every attack being under 600 ms (except for heavies) seems just a little busted to me
Great video Freeze, totally agree on the dodge attack/deflect input, I think PK's change was a mistake that they would revert. Unless a hero has two dodge attacks or something (which I think no deflect hero has so far) the inputs should be distinct, simple as that. As for Orochi's rework, I think I quite enjoy it, I'm getting beat up these days but guess I'll figure it out. Imagine trying to adapt in for honor, right? I think it's a tad too early to actually present an opinion, but so far, I find Raider a bit scarier. I mean, he can LiGhTsPaM, so he must be pretty good
He is soo good and so well. But people complaining about is gonna ruin him. Maybe if they remove no bash after hit or whiffed bash and no followup light on whiffed bash. It will reduce the amount of read need to make.
The fact that Orochi can deflect any dodge attack punishes is so dumb. He wasn't in much need of a rework either most Orochi's were decent even in 1v1s. Meanwhile, there are characters who are forgotten about, so bad even that they need buffs/reworks, some are straight-up, not fun to play because everyone makes "reads" aka guess, which subtracts from the skill required to play and ruins the rewarding feeling for winning a fight. Nothing in this game is fun anymore, it's more "read" based now than skill.
Dude, orochi was perhaps the worst duelist in the game before the rework. Idk what you're talking about. Many characters need reworks, but orochi was definitely one of them
@@Lucidopherus lmao WAT? Zhanhu was better than Orochi even before his twerks. Shinobi was better than Orochi before Orochi's rework. Orochi was the worse in the game.
Read = skill + experience. IMO it’s much more skillful to read your opponent and catch on to their patterns and punish those than to have everything be reaction based. More rewarding for me to outplay you than simply react.
6:00 I don't really understand why you say that because it doesn't matter anyway. For example : Glad can dodge + zone to confirm either a deflect on the right timing or a dodge light if he miss. Am I the only one using this trick? Pretty sure it works with every hero that have different inputs between dodge light and deflect.
PK bleed bash when? She should get unblockable lights, and if you parry them she should get a free deflect off it. Hey why not a hero that who's attacks track across the entire map? Or a hero that is invisible until they attack? I wonder if Ubi can't stand to test with each other in 4v4s because they'd get pissed at each other and wouldn't work with one another.
Alright I get that this is just an angry "character A op" comment but I'd actually really like an invisibility feat for shinobi or something. That'd be cool.
My experience as a day 1 Orochi main is that no matter what I do, others will always complain about me. So I just decided to say fuck it and keep wiping the floor with everyone's face regardless. Whenever people complain I just ignore it nowadays
What erks me the most about him is how unbelievably stupid his kick looks (and sounds lol) He jumps straight up in the air, literally tilts himself horizontally without any forward movement, kicks and reverts back to neutral. Janky/butchered/patchworked animations like this one or HLs whole kit are one if my main arguments for a For Honor 2, after CCU and 3 quarantine heroes they should just start from scratch again
They cannot bring TG Orochi into the main game, he's too busted, you cant even punish most of his attacks now and all of his attacks have a decreased stamina consumption rate smh.
I mean most people are complaining about op characters which they can’t react and read to and what not and there is truth behind it, but honestly some characters are just fine and shouldn’t be nerfed to match their needs for a game where predictability leads to defeat
That's what I'm saying. For the most part Oro isn't safe on any of his stuff if he messes up and gets read he's eating some damage and is stuck in the opponent's mix up now, he's an assassin lol he don't got that much health to work with so he is a risk reward hero. People need to worry about characters like Hito and Shugo and BP, for the most part all these heroes tend to be very safe whenever they do anything. Hito has those variable timed heavies just like shugo where this is such a large amount of time where they can let it fly that it's stuuuuupid hard to actually try and snuff it out with a light or try and read and parry. Bp, is well. . . BP lol but for the most part shugo and Hito are the prime example overpowered because they don't have that risk if they preform the wrong attack or do the wrong thing. They can go crazy offensive or do nothing and just go for the guaranteed stuff, they have too many options. Least imo
id have to agree on the deflects counter hyper armor if you want to deal with hyper armor gb or parry after deflect and what about nova king???? is he supposed to be a shaman main now?
Tbf I kinda dont see orochi and raider changes as that good. Againts raider, if you don't have side dodge bash, you wont be able to fight him pretty much. Other thing can be said about orochi, why press any buttons and attempt any offence againts character who is always able to counterattack with not many repercussions?
@@pain002 one has busted defensive move that forces you to be careful. other has actual offence that requires read and not overtuned offence that allows for defence just because you start mindlessly mashing buttons. Over years Ubi showed us where they are going with things and here it pretty much went over board compared to all other buffs and changes that we have received over years. They want viable offence, not overtuned offence
Against raider i find crushing counters and all guard work well, but of course raider just has to chained zone and slap you in the mouth for 38 damage, and Crushing counters are a risk. So yes side dodge bash. With orochi i can’t stand him now, they all seem to have Ps5 (coming from the chad 30fps lands) and just parry, and dodge cancel whatever i throw at them. 192940 reads needed
I love your vids, but I have to say, I really prefer deflects being on the same input as dodge attack. If I make a read and I decide to deflect, but fail to do so because of the very tight (100 ms) window on side deflects, I at least want to get that dodge attack in, instead of staring at the opponent or spamming heavy and light input, wondering whether I'll dodge attack or deflect.
Then you should be punished for missing the deflect what? It rewards players or makes it very safe for essentially just throwing out a dodge if you miss the timing you deserve to be punished.
@@oofboof5030 Makes it safe? How? If your opponent thinks you'll go for dodge attack/deflect, he can just parry it and against most heroes it gives him a light parry, so you're eating a heavy
Can you make an video about the shinobi testing grounds rework? I think its decent, only thing i dont like is the ranged from neutral being removed, but i see people on twitter absolutely losing their minds over this rework, saying its horrible and that they'll never play for honor again. I want to know your opinion on this proposed rework, because i have mixed feelings.
So he can just cancel into light spam is what I’m seeing. Well from what I’ve seen from all the orochi’s these days. Faster spam due to cancel or whiffing
@@vapor_snake920 yeah he doesn’t have light finishers anymore but that doesn’t mean he can’t still light spam. Orochi is always going to be a hero that is based around lights. They give him tweaks here and there but that doesn’t change much really. You’ll just see a more ruthless light spam due to his recovery cancels
@@vapor_snake920 well it would be nice to see that at least. I see a bunch of whiff kicks into light spam. Or just flat out light spam and storm rush only
Im so glad with thee new Roach man! Hes finally not just a lightspem hero! I actually think hes not op, the meaning op has lost its meaning thanks to the noobs of the game. Mayb some little tweaks but are we really gonna trust that Ubi wont ruin him in the process? I would say, hyperarmor cancel on deflect attack shouldnt have been been put for his light deflect but on his heavy deflect imo. Also, more stam consumption for storming rush to keep it from being taken advantage of Tho it should still low enough to be able to use it mid chain
Hey freeze, maybe this will seem whiny but just, as a casual player, please give me an honest reason to even bother trying trying play out of meta characters or even characters I deem fun to play when every match is just a the exact same basically 1 or 2 warlords, occasionally switch that out for a raider or even both. Plus add on shugokis and just. Idk, like I like playing shinobi and his rework is really fun but he still obviously hasn't really been moved up the tier list all that much. Might just be in a sour mood cuz of a bad few games but yeah... lemme know what you think if you want to.
My biggest issue is that his deflect interrupts HA. I'm not the biggest fan of the kick being able to dodge recovery cancel, but most orochis panic dodge attack if you dodge it, so it makes for easy light parries.
I still wish she had her usual deflects, but they interrupt hyper armor and the more deflects you do while charging the heavy, the damage is increased.
So, basically, Orochi is a run on sight character now... his kit has a answer for everything and has no holes. Hmmm... but paid for characters are boo boo out the gate, seems fair
I like that they kept an identity with the rework but... it takes less effort for the orochi to fight me than it does for me to fight the orochi and I feel like a fighting game shouldn't work like that :P
Never-ending orochi I'm looking at raiders! Everything has speeded up from lights and heavy and his zone cost 12 stamina!! Storming tap got nerfed ages ago but now it's back to broken (not as broken as pre nerf) overall I don't see any reason anyone would need to play any other hero other than raider with lighting speed light/heavy attacks with soft feign on heavy and zone witch involves mixup ups aswell.... Never mind the storm is coming, the raider is coming!!
- His lights got sped up from 600ms and 700ms to 500ms. You know, the same as everyone else. - His opener heavies got sped up from 1000ms and 900ms to 900ms and 800ms respectively, so... the same as almost everyone else. - His zone attacks are now treated as normal heavies with their new stamina costs because that's how Raider uses them, losing half your stam throwing a single attack was ridiculous. - Storming Tap is now an actual move people might want to use, unless you also think shaman and PK's dagger cancels are also broken in which case... idk what to tell you. In other words, Raider is now a functioning hero playable in 4s and 1v1s and is made pretty good with the removal of option selects. I fail to see the problem.
@@WillowMelody you tested him, in the testing ground? Me and 2 friends are and we are out lightspamming everything, reason is his animation on the swing is shorter than most hereos hence why his lights where slower in the first place, the zone is not just a "normal heavy" it does deal the same 24 damage as a heavy but its an ublockable that be be done without chain and hard or soft feigned witch is pure ridiculous for 12 stamina especially when raider heavy is uninterrupted stance and has insane tacking on dodges it may aswell be undodable aswell as blockable.... why not make all his heavy unblockable and undodable? 3 raider insta kill any player caught in a wall splat (wall splat 8snt hard with 3 raiders) 8-0 so far 3 raiders in testing grounds 4 players tend to pick raider to to match us and its pure broken. Aboslute mayhem! 😂😂😂
@@The-Spanish-Inquisition490 His lights are 500ms, the exact same length as everyone else's lights. The animation is the same length, the indicator length is the same (as in 100ms is hidden since CCU), the active frames are the same. In fact the only lights that changed were his 2nd and 3rd top lights, which people barely used in the first place. His zone attack is slow and has no hyper armor, its only strength is that it's unblockable and it can be soft feinted, which are definitely good but he can be slapped out of it easily (most zones can't be), it's parryable (Glad and Black Prior aren't), and the soft feint option comes from the same side every time and nets you a heavy if you parry it. And no, you're not instant killing people off of a wall splat with three Raiders. Even if we pretend damage reduction doesn't factor in and all three Raiders are doing their highest damage neutral attacks (top heavies for 27 damage) you're dealing 81 damage (but one has to stampede charge them to the wall, so they're not getting a top heavy). Anything beyond that isn't guaranteed because you're not gonna be in hitstun anymore. And finally, Raider's changes are live, not on the testing grounds. So in general you just seem to have zero clue about what you're talking about in every possible way. If you're lightspamming people to death consistently as a fullstack of Raiders and winning every single match, you're probably playing on last gen consoles and/or against bad players... which, given the skill level being demonstrated by your statements, is more likely than not.
@@WillowMelody yes I am insta killing with 3 raiders off a wall splat..... We caught a shaman on the Japan map with the little island with the 2 bridges and wall first raider wiffed due to panic dodge and my friend caught on her recovery for a wall splat all 3 raiders full punish = instant kill.... rinse and repeat.... Work even better with goki with iron lungs feat because he's literally the fastest moving hero for reason. And explain how everyone's animation is the same .... like highlander will always out light most... raider now out lights most... orochi is fast but makes up on garenetted lights if chained... When raider swings from point A to point B (not objectives) its totally different from others just because there the same speed doesn't mean that others won't hit before another if used at the same time. As for the zone I could have worded it better I was mainly referring to raiders heavy attacks on the uninterrupted stance just measly comparing as it seems worthless having a heavy with unblockable from neutral why not just rework the entire zone attack keep it 50 stamina . As for the heavy well... its lightning fast when chained in a mix up its almost on par with the light! Regardless of what ubisoft say the MS is, it's great! I love raping people in the training grounds with the rework raider is my new main if this stays. Zero skill needed just button mash hit sift feign or guard break every now again and win 90% of games only lost 1 so far and that was because we was up against a premade of 4 raider while we where premade of 3 and a random shinobi 😂 But regardless of what you or I say lets just let people judge for themselves, but I highly recommend the instant kill (honest it works)
@@The-Spanish-Inquisition490 my man you and your friend being able to light Spam everything and get by says a lot about the Elo you are in right now. Continue and you will face players that will shut you down no problem at all
Honestly can we get this quality of buffs for literally anyone that's not a samurai? Or even then there's enough characters, add single pick or pick/ban please, I'm bored of only fighting pampered samurai
I just love how an orochi can basically do all this and be fine on stam, but I try to go offensive with lawbro and go into cardiac arrest with a single mixup
😂😂😂😂💯
As a highlander main I feel your pain stam is not are friend lol
Watch out, in this area of YT LB is top tier and needs nothing. Anyone who challenges thats gets bombarded to oblivion.
@@muhbelal1463 is that how bad the FH community is that LB is still considered OP he’s so bad rn
Lawbringer doesn’t need much to be honest, buff long arm and perhaps add some hyper armor somewhere or a new chain but that’s really about it
The weirdest part about the deflect pin to me is that the whole multi deflect with the heavy followup feint was kind of Orochis signature style move, having that incorporated via recovery cancels to make it an actually viable thing instead of just flex would have been great.
Nah the new deflect is 100000x better than what he has before
@@nathanielrenteria9669 its noy about being better though, its about the flex. As he said, the double deflect was orochi signature move and very satisfying to pull off
@@jequiti6057 I have 42 reps into orochi and I have barely ever used the heavy deflect because it was worthless a mediocre trade tool at best not a signature move people just started calling it that because y’all wanted something to complain about
He can still do that, not as cool tho. Hurricane blast was his signature move, not his light deflect
@@nathanielrenteria9669 it’s not about how good it is, but about flexing that double deflect.
Bash -> deflect is gonna be in a lot of deflect compilations.
The only problems I have with the rework are needing to make 7 reads to punish his bash, and the hyper armor cracking deflect, they should have just left the heavy and light inputs for the deflect.
Agreed maybe give the light deflect dodge cancel.
Nope
Yea i agree
@@jtrails694 ?
Orochi feels like driving a 2021 car, thats good, only problen is that all the other heros feel like a 80’s trash bag
That's probably the best analogy ive heard
I’m still trying to figure out why Orochi deflect pins and not Gladiator’s.
orochi's is probably the testing phase for the devs if it receives a lot positive feedback which I think majority of the playerbase likes then it will be the standard tech for deflects in the future which honestly should've been the case ages ago
@@marzialalfonzocanada888 I actually like the deflects being fast, chaining into each other. Interrupting hyper armor is very strong yes. And I use it very much when fighting heroes like raider and zerk but it brings the fight to a complete stop. Which I dont like. Everything else about his rework makes flow
Does anyone remember the days when Riptide Strike was performed while walking backwards and pressing heavy?
Back then I coudnt even counter gb
2020 people: God I hate orochi
2021 people: *God I hate orochi*
2017 people: God I hate orochi
2022 people: *GOD I HATE OROCHI*
This rework feels like it doesn’t belong in this game. No other hero is on par with what this hero can do, not even close. He has a high skill ceiling, but he’s downright oppressive when you’re facing someone who’s reached that.
For sure felt this when trying to play literally anyone against him
Raider is probably worse at the moment, due to his high damage mixups as well as his ability in teamfights being miles ahead of orochi. Orochi would barely reach top five right now, maybe not even.
Returned to the game to try new orochi.
Very first round in duel:
"Orochi mains light spamming as always"
Said Raider pressing zone attack 4 times in a row
@@rantrakkanto1029 are you high?
he doesn't lmao
also zone into zone is better even than top heavy meta, so just learn to deal with it
@@ivan24121996 some people are honestly deluded. where did that guy get his info from.
If you got hit by 4 Raider zones zones that’s on you bruh
@@FloridaManDio he hit none of them. First was interrupted by double light. Second by kick. Third and Forth by undodgable light
And all that in a row
I agree that the light spam argument is fairly annoying now but I’ve played on old gen consoles for a long time and some times it really is unbearable unless you’ve got a hyper armor hero especially with higher latency people.
Honestly it baffles me that everyone keeps ignoring completely the old gen population like they don't matter, even though they are the majority by a large margin. Indeed, the experience on old gen consoles with normal setups is getting worse and worse for the benefit of next gen and pc. Perhaps for the best, who knows, sometimes it's better to move on, but it's an undeniable reality.
@@srafnos2073 well I still think Pc has a bigger base but yeah I terms of console I do think more have the old console I got my series x earlier this year and a majority of my friends have as well but we got lucky. I wish they would put a metric out like the steam hardware surveys to see who’s playing on what. I doubt it would do anything since the devs don’t play the game anyway and just listen to who’s the loudest and a blind dart throwing game to determine what little task to do next
@@srafnos2073 also yeah when battlefield and halo release I’m giving my console to my brother and using my pc I upgraded for my job( gotta love a tax right off) and I’m gonna drop for honor cause I don’t see the major issues being fixed any time soon(revenge, feats, horrible flashbang/blinding UI, flicker being back. Slow update cycle etc)
High latency is brutal but console just has a more aggressive meta which isn’t that bad especially with the tons of hyper armor just makes deflects a little harder
@@jojoa694 oh that’s cool to know, I don’t have a PlayStation or own it on pc so that’s just something I never see. No wonder youtubers run into the same people all the time thanks
Freeze always sounds passive aggressive for some reason.
On a different note, I've noticed that some people spam bash into forward rushing tide combo, and the timing of it is very difficult to manage. Is this consistent with others?
You mean they storm rush after kicking you? Or are you saying that they either kick or storm rush?
you kids are just overly sensitive and look for any little comment that could be considered offensive.
@@fkkfreeze He took the passive out of "passive aggressive" LOL
@@fkkfreeze so close to "back in my day"
@@fkkfreeze passive aggressive doesn't mean offensive, but he's got a point.. at least this is my impression too.
sometimes you make some comments just to flame some casual gamer out there that pissed you off with his nonsense...
I enjoy your content but sometimes there's unnecessary dissing to "bad" players that doesn't bring the discussion anywhere that's it.
now I don't think there anything in this video to blame you for I particular so maybe op just doesn't like you and it's just a kid trying to pick up a fight
Orochi zone has the blue effect even though its dodgeable, meanwhile warden zone in TG didn't have blue effect and was undodgeable.
Only change they need to do is make it so Orochi can’t get away scot free after making a mistake. Aka, the infamous kick cancel. This man can punish you for rightfully punishing his bash. So honestly, they should probably just remove the attack on whiff, and lower recovery. It’s not a severe nerf because every other character’s bashes work the same way.
"rightfully"... good grief
Let's have the Orochi just die after whiffing a kick. Seems just fair... have god smite him down for daring to press a button.
@@fkkfreeze Nah don’t worry chief. It’s just a dodge attack worth of damage. Unless I missed something and Ubi buffed all dodge attacks to Senbonzakura damage.
@@fkkfreeze I mean by this logic no attacks should be punishable and the first person to throw an attack should win, right? Should Warlord's bash allow him to chain into his all guard or superior lights to punish you for dare punishing his whiffed headbutt.
@@kaijuslayer3334 this man said “rightfully” like dodging a bash isn’t cause to get punished in for honor😂 with freezes logic let’s just make all bashes whiff chain into anything we want
@@mspaffles9665 in my opinion it's way better to chain into stuff on whiff than being invulnerable to GB like warlord or conq, BP 90% of the time. If orochi does nothing after whiff he can't counter gb. BP can just stay there and counter GB. Which is boring af
Him being able to literally punish your attempt at punishing him is too much.
Black prior is doing this shit since years ago and no one complains, try dodge attack a BP unblockable and he can still bulwark counter it. But with Orochi is way harder, if you think its easy for the orochi to pull off a deflect after a whiffed bash, you're very wrong, it must be done on read and the timing is super strict. Its not like all Orochis in the game are doing this.
@@joao.destro Just because BP does it, doesn't mean it's ok lmfao. Ubi are too lazy to fix these shits.
but anyway, we all know that they LOVE knights so fucking much, so they'll never change that on BP
@@_riliane_ so as long as BP has it I see no reason to remove from orochi. Obviously recovery cancels are fine. So leave it
@@joao.destro bp can not cancel unblockable recovery into bulwark stance. U can dodge attack bp unblockables all day. Only attacks he can cancel recovery into bulwark is all his lights, dodge and heavy(not including unblockable)
@@pain002 nah.
If any deflect were to break hyper armor it should've been Galdiator's since it's a hit-grab of sorts and does no damage aside from the bleed it applies.
Glad does 38 damage with his deflect already, I agree it would make sense from a realistic perspective but his deflect is strong already.
Great video, but I have a thought...
So, if this is ok to punish a correct read, can we make warden, warmonger and cent bashes chainable on wiff with no GB vulnerability? What do you mean this is unbalanced, JuSt MaKe A DoUbLe ReAd BrO!
Ain't no way you unironically compared a legion kick type bash to a variable timed bash. Do you only see a bash as a bash?
@@twilight.3.549 yeah... in my opinion warden should feel a lot like orochi. Lots of SWORD USE. Not the Infinite vortex
Cant wait until shaman gets undodgables, recovery on hit and wiff and obviously interrupt hyperarmour with deflect
/s
she doesn't feel as overpowered as she once did so it might happen
@@lastor9148 she is still one of the best duelers
I mean tbh. She doesn’t need an undodgable imo. But she should interrupt HA with deflect, all it does is inflict bleed and small damage for a potential bite. Otherwise it’s not that good. She should be one of the characters in the game able to interrupt HA.
Don’t get me wrong she still good, but with my play style I like that deflect to be more useful than it is.
@@terrakage4462 did you watch the video? Her deflect alreadt has dodge cancel.
I'd just like to say I like how everyone hated gryphon because him being able to attack after missing a bash made him nearly unpunishable and they nerfed that ability. But then gave that save powerful ability to 4 other heroes lol
On the deflect beating hyperarmor thing: The main reason people want deflects to defeat hyperarmor imo, is purely because of how deflects are generally more difficult to do than simply blocking/dodging/parrying, and one hero in particular, Gladiator, essentially not having a deflect at all against hyperarmor opponents. Of course, they feel much easier now, especially on the sides, which makes be believe they may have changed the priority of deflect frames vs i-frames on the side dodges.
Orochi at least already has all his deflects able to be lights, just before he had the option of a pinning heavy as well, which took forever, had hyperarmor, and was able to be dodged.
Overall though, Gladiator, the main Assassin people want to have their deflects interrupting HA, still can't do anything about it unless they opt to not get a deflect and just bash instead since their deflect will just bounce off of somebody with active HA. Orochi didn't need this one, and could have instead just gotten the shaman treatment (which you brought up Shaman's ability to deflect HA opponents repeatedly) since they made him be able to cancel recoveries everywhere else.
The deflect talk was accurate. I disliked it when PK’s got changed to her dodge heavy and I dislike that orochi’s move is somehow a pin that beats hyper armor simply because the devs said so. There are better ways to improve deflects than to just make them beat everything. In the meantime, buff nuxia’s deflect please, devs.
Okay except deflects and superior block dodges are the same mechanic but superior block dodge stop HA and are always confirmed making them just better deflects on better designed characters
@@liamcivil5978 exactly
@@liamcivil5978 Fully agree. Conq's dodge is infinitely stronger than any assassin's. CC lights are just better deflects and safer too. (deflect attempt is punished by feint to typically light parry or feint to gb. CC light is punished by feint to super difficult, sometimes impossible, light parry; dodge attack; or nothing on block.)
Should've given the hyper armour thing to glad instead. Would've made a lot more sense.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 Glad would have to lose some damage for me to agree, but it would logically make more sense.
3:00 "people don't like it when people press buttons" (regarding Orochi's bash recovery)
Alright, so I had an observation the other day.
Orochi: 500 ms bash which can be dodge recovery canceled on whiff or hit, chains into lights, unblockable heavy, etc. Also, some characters have delayable dodge attacks, but not all of them do. Newer heroes and reworks are moving towards fixed dodge attack input timings. We'll see if that continues.
Some players #notall: lemme press buttons bro just make the right reads on top of the other reads
Shinobi (pre rework): his kick is very reactable, extremely telegraphed, making it a poor offensive tool, but can be dodge canceled. It is a purely defensive tool. It does not allow him to chain into light, only ranged heavy, which sucks because it's unfeintable, slow, and guarantees a lot of damage when parried. However we do know Shinobi is a hot mess of mechanics, so he too, depending on whether you do a dodge attack, can easily deflect it, backflip (which correct me if I'm wrong is not GB vulnerable) but overall since all the nerfs most options deal little damage. Oh I guess the guaranteed 4 damage.
Conclusion: utter bs, shouldn't be allowed, etc, why have a slow kick you can't punish,
I know some of those comments/sentiments towards Shinobi are old (especially of the rework passes) but like what changed? We had a character who could do a kick and against a good player it could be very hard to hit him since he could dodge, backflip or deflect.
My opinion if characters have bashes that even upon missing can do all that then that should be the standard, why is gryphon not allowed to continue on whiff but more and more reworked characters can? Zhanhu, shugoki, Jiang Jung, Orochi, and maybe more in the future?
I just want consistency honestly, and if a character can't chain on bash whiff then I would like a good reason why they can't.
To be honest I've waited for this for years... even stopped playing since my main was absolutely dreadful to use since I refuse to spam lights and orochis kit couldn't keep up with the most commonly used/newly released heroes.
The weeb champ they dreamed of
Im an orochi main and this rework got me back into the game
@@Guardianshrine same. 40 reps in, 2 years ago. We're back baby!
finnaly he is strong for once, and its safe and fair to say that it is his FIRST rework, since last one was a big XD from ubi. so yea finally after so many years last champion from regular roster got a rework, and the best part is that he did not get anything special or out of the box in comparsion to what other heroes have, but since he was always most hated and kind of a ifyoumadonagamejustblameorochi then his rework making him strong provides butthurt in full effect.
In my opinion either superior block dodges need to be brought down to deflect level or deflects need to go up to superior block level there’s no reason to have non assassin characters that have a re-branded deflects that’s just outright better because it’s reliable and works every time and stops HA every time. HA should stop trades such as trying to poke someone out of combo or early dodge attack but not defeat deflects.
I won't say i despise the changes, i always thought that orochi should have been the dodge recovery hero after a combo but some of his new stuff are just stupid. He has so many options now to get out impossible situations that is just laughable, his kick move with everything that comes with it is just the pick of the iceberg, his zone attack in fact grants him to counter many crushing counters present in the game (only a bunch of specific ones are safe to do). As i said, i like the rework and his new recovery sistem but he really needs some tweaks for him to be balanced.
I feel freeze should be working for ubi
In order to do that, he’d need tough skin so as not to get aggressive at the countless feedback, or else job goes bye. Which is something he’s not the best at
@@kaijuslayer3334 In order to do that he'd need to fall in line with whatever corparate wants, which is something he's not best at
i don't think ubi would appreciate one of their employes constantly insulting any portion of the player base that disagrees with him
Such a good hero now but definitely agree about the deflect, shouldn't reward mindless dodging, also they moved to read based so why have something like this, make reads and be rewarded for matchup knowledge not a lucky dodge attack that caught the deflect window instead
Also if they've done this, then wheres glad's deflect change since he completely loses out to hyperarmor... All rather inconsistent really
Is there a point in making a new video about max punishments or the old ones are still relevant? Returned in the game after a year's pause, didn't follow the changes
need to update them now.
I'm just massively behind on that, sorry :(
@@fkkfreeze no need to be sorry, upload when you feel like doing it and don't make videos through the force.
I'm rewatching this video and remember when Orochi had 2 chain 400ms lights. His chain light and his top finisher light. I guess Orochi's recent rework makes up for it, but he is hated more now for being able to punish people if the Orochi makes a read.
What is he trying to explain at 5:58. I don’t understand.
I hope that Shaolin, Highlander and/or Lawbringer get a rework next
Me toooo
They just need to give lb hyper armor on his forward bash and he’ll do fine but also make its recovery slower and think he would be in a solid state like A TEIR maybe make his impale unblockable after a parry but that might be too much.
shaolin needs something that changes his urge to just spam light and heavy. if quick enough, you can just stab him out of his stance or wait for his dodge attack.
highlander probably needs 1 or 2 more options to start his chain or get into his other stance. Since double hyper armor lights are also very tempting to just spam.
lawbringer needs his shove hyper armor and maybe rework his long arm like they did with shugoki hug. So its more viable. Or a turned down Hitokiri kick.
All I want is for the dodge recovery cancel on kick to be removed
Hey freeze, a question: the zone attack has a blue light, but it isn’t undodgeable… Or is it?
100% agree on what you said about deflects, we should probably be able to change, decide ourselves the deflect followup input for characters that have only one (meaning, not zhanhu).
And I absolutely dislike the ability of Orochi to interrupt hyperarmour on deflects, a solution like shaman’s would have made more sense, especially on a character that can evade most hyperarmoured attacks now just by dodging after any attack lands.
Not a fan of the low recovery on the bash whiff, but it’s not up to me to decide. If they nerfed it on whiff and and buffed it on hit, imagine Orochi basically “jumping” from the chest of an opponent to another in team fights, deflecting peeling attempts xD
Thinking about it, here comes to mind the importance of more features to remap controller.
I’ve recently started using more mouse and key (must take a mechanical keyboard though, the one I have is a kinda old membrane one) mostly because on controller I got so much angry when I entered fullblock by mistake (dead zone of 3, I need it).
I’ve never used the “reset camera button”, never felt the need to, since to target swap I simply double click my LT/L2 trigger.
Looks blue to me too
For some reason I think they brought back the blue weapon glow for chain attacks, specifically for the zone or something. Maybe we'll see a comeback of this visual effect in the future? Not that it really does much
I love how even today, they still working on fixing the problems of the ccu
Oh look another person complaining about CCU rather than just accepting how many things it solved, you going to get upset about not being able to 3 hit someone next aswell or what?
@@sydious_s_snake The game was fun before ccu, like the highlander, who is now just light attack spam for everyone playing him. We are at the point where, I return on the game for one 1vs1, I beat a rep 176 without using light attack and he came to say me "thanks for this fight". I don't think you played ccu on old gen men, I can't even react to parry nubushi's light attack anymore, the game became even worse than before. I really don't understand how peoples can like these changes, especially the red mark 100ms later, I don't even understand why they did that.
Deflect could be a parry mid dodge, plus you need to press the correct attack after that.
Like Dodge+heavy and you press light to do Wind gust.
That’s incredibly stupid, what your asking for is for FH to make deflects damn near impossible for console players or anyone who isn’t in grandmaster rank
Ubi: ads testing grounds
Also ubi: adds orochi insane new playstyle in the live game
yeah play against orochi on playstation where he always spam the kick and undodgeable rush ...This is the real pain now
If anything, pk or nuxia’s deflects should stop hyper armour, not orochis (especially since he has a bash).
Also i agree that i hate that they changed pk’s deflect to be on same button as dodge attack. I preferred having it on seperate buttons
I just got back playing the game and im a bit sadden they taken away the heavy deflect
100% agree on everything said about deflects.
Same. But i think Dev did it so he can use it in teamfight like deflect opponent A's attack than dodge cancel deflect opponent's B's attack.
The chances of getting a "lucky" deflect is much smaller the brains of people that throws safe hyper armor heavys, and thats a very small brain i'm talking about.
Just because you got your lights deflected, it does't mean it was a lucky dodge attack. I can consistently deflect light attacks.
@@joao.destro and the funniest part of it is that depending on the character you can’t deflect their light because their combo light has HA
@@liamcivil5978 and that's stupid on many levels. But I don't complain about it, it's MY opinion that braindead HA combos is stupid, but if I have a move that can counter that, I'll gladly use it. Or should I just sit there and block trough all the chain, only for my enemy to get frame advantage and start all over again, forcing me to parry?
Man I’d hate to be someone who can’t deal with orochi rn lmaoo
Were you saying you want orochi to recover cancel his deflect instead of it flatout beating Hyper armor?
I played only Orochi for the last 4 reps to get a cool colour and finally reached it and quit Orochi for life just before this update and I really don't want to start learning him again but he seems alot more fun now ughhh
He's honestly a lot of fun personally I try my best to learn every hero to improve my reads
I'm not against most of the rework. I just feel like it's overkill in some aspects
I've been maining Orochi since the open beta. I am just happy to see Orochi be viable after almost five years of waiting.
Yeah, that's nice.
great video freeze,
now the opinion you didnt ask for..
i really like that the deflect beats hiperarmor, and i think that pk should have it too and maybe Glad, to be honest, the same thing as why superior block dogues beats the atack too beacuse they interrupt all atacks they """ deflect"""
BUT i fully agree that the dogue atack should be in a different Atack input that then the deflect atacks
for the most part, i m really happy with Orochis rework, now it feels like we have a complete Assasing counter atackee that push itself in to his offense and promote a gameplan of reads for the atacker and for the defender
But glads deflect grabs the opponent so it makes sense why he should have it. It's the same way beserkers deflect can interrupt all attacks because he guardbreaks the opponent.
Personally I don't think orochi or pk needs their deflects to interrupt attacks. Considering orochi's already insane recoveries I don't see why they can't just do the same with his deflect.
But that's my opinion.
I think that it is a terrible idea to switch the deflect and give it its own button because I play on playstation and a change like that would be unbearable.
Especially since I can't get 100% control over control mapping.
I've got dodge as L1 and R3 for Guardbreak and X for Sprint but I really want to make L3 my zone attack.
Adding a deflect button will force it onto the left or right stick as L3 or R3 since you have to dodge into it at the same time that you press it
@@ChrisAssassin dude i play on a controller, ¿how would be unbearable?
is literally the same input as a doge atack light or heavy,
but if your doge atack is a heavy, your deflect should be the light atack, and vice versa, so you predict the deflect and wast a "accident" doge atack, but i would like to have the posibility to doge atack from a deflec to be honest
if you wanna atack with L3 ip to you mate, but wtf would you wanna do that?
@@rightousnesspursuer6523 i would say that they do, to be honest and pk dont have that recovery like shaman does and it is not a chain starter either, deflect are riskier than superior block doges and they literaly do the same mechanically,
I would consider that they DONT BEAT hiper armor if they WORKED in unblockables, so then now they have a diferent property than superior block dogues as they would lose vs unblocks
All assassins should have 200ms dodge cancels. Should be apart of the kit.
Yeah my biggest problem with orochi is the same problem I had with PK's deflect change, but his also beats hyper armor. Personally I was hoping since they were removing heavy deflect they would move the new deflect into old heavy input. Along with that though now that they put his improved deflect as his dodge light input and made it beat hyper armor im less impressed when I see him deflect because it could very easily just been another random dodge attack.
very good rework, was much needed for a very poor hero. Agree with the deflect thing, I think its weird that it pins, when noone else's does. Other than that freeze, is there anything else about the rework you would change?
I Think It’s Fine If They Fix The Recovery Of The Kick A Bit
welp gladiator Pins too, and i agree is a very good rework,
Just the kick recovery cancel is a bit too much for me.
@@vicio19995 hyper armor still beats Gladiators deflect though, not Orochi's
@@mitchellthompson6596 yeha but the deflect still pins if the atack has no armor
Me as a Cent trying to get a 500 ms light attack off so I can start a combo:
Orochi: hold my dodge recovery cancel..
Edit: im a rep 40 cent 370 ish total and I use almost all moves in the kit (zone isn't worth it. 1st attack is 15 dmg and 2nd almost always gets parried lol, and u lose half your stam so its def not worth it. I win most of my fights but 50/50 spam and light spam makes even starting a conbo difficult. Hito/Zhan hu/orochi/raider/pk/nuxia i can kinda parry but pk is a mf demon with them soft feints. 0lease believe im very good at FH but even on series X Lights are an issue as sometimes the hit indicater doesn't even pop up on time. All my OGs know what I'm talking about.
Use a heavy
@@cherrycola4476 light spammed out or parried.
@@fl4k_40 i usually dodge forward then get light spammed before being able to do much else.
Zone
No such thing as light spam
If you faced a perfect Orochi, technically he could lock you in his combo until he runs out of stamina.
This isn't very likely to happen in For Honor, but if we were a larger fighting game community, like SFV or Guilty Gear, that would absolutely happen at the higher level. The idea that something isn't broken if it's difficult to perform only holds up among weak players. For this reason, I don't like the changes, as they may have a bad impact at the competitive level making Orochi too much of a beast in 1v1 scenarios.
What if his damage was also adjusted to accommodate for the number of opportunities for his offense? To me, Orochi seems to fall in line with characters in fighting games that have easy to access approaches to their kit, safe pokes, and strong defense tools at the cost of low HP and less damage potential off their combos.
@@vapor_snake920 he does more damage than average except on his deflect
@@trenzalors4238 yeah that’s what i mean. If his damage average was toned down more, would he be acceptable then?
@@vapor_snake920 i don't think so, regardless of what the damage is what people see will still be "i made the correct he was going to kick, used the tool the devs gave every single character in order to punish bashes and yet got punished for it", i personally believe removing the ability to dodge cancel out of the bash's recoveries is best course of action
Its a good rework its just get tiresome facing orochi every match constantly especially when his mixup is so hard to punish, also has a lot of different options basically a 1 in 5 and then on kick punish its another 1 in 5, either a light top heavy (with its own mixup) heavy into gb or nothing
you can try and hit him with a side light before they doge forward if you have trouble with it. i know is not perfect but sometimes changing from reactive to proactive really helps to deal with some heroes
@@vicio19995 on reaction to orochi doing a forward dash you can only hit him out of storm rush nothing more it also applies if he tries the mixup from a recovery cancel, its best to just observe how he does stuff for a few turns and then just give your best shot at reads
I have seen maybe four orochis so far. Whole lotta raiders, though...
@@kielbasamage as a raider main, raider has always been annoying but any character with a crushing counter completely shuts raider down since that storming tap is suicide
@@rapsnacks8050 I didn't even consider that crushing counters were fast enough. Gonna try that one. Thanks!
really a sad thing about the deflect pinning now. the hyper armour counter to deflects (now that few attacks have hyper armour, and its mostly in chains) added the need for some brain power before blindly smashing deflect.
The only thing i have with every rework in recent time's are the animation's, with Orochi for exemple they could have used that knee strike from one of his execution's it has a better flow from dodge and recovery cancel instead of this flying kick that he do out of nowhere.
Yeah I've thought about that too.
I liked the old spinning kick more actually, this one feels a bit weird from an animation perspective.
I agree, Orochi's deflect shouldn't beat HA. I think it would be so much better if Orochi could chain deflects against opponents who spam without thinking. So higher skill players could still "beat" HA with reads and "bad" players still eat the combo attack since they buffered the combo light.
I disagree. It should be the way it is now. People never had an issue with Berzerker getting a deflect GB that ignores HA. Getting a free hit in because you input a heavy that has HA is far easier then deflecting a light.
@@ivanbenja4 You can't just compare heroes to other heroes like that.
Sure, no one had an issue with raider having hyper armour on his heavies, but that doesn't mean that every hero should have hyper armour on their heavies. Or a full block stance with BP's flip. Or undodgeable and unblockable finishers.
I'd think chaining deflects would've been super cool-looking with orochi. It's not like he'd be weak without the hyper armour beating.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 Yeah you can compare them. Certain things should be the standard in all heroes. Lights in all heroes do less damage then heavies. Deflecting and getting slapped with a follow up because some dude input an attack and got HA, is stupid. Because by that logic, deflecting (which is hard to begin with) can only be done on chain finishers safely if the finisher isn't unblockable, or the hero doesn't have HA.... Which is dumb.
@@ivanbenja4 Thinking and acting at the right moment? What a novel and preposterous concept.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 If you think that it takes less thinking, to time a deflect, then it is to press 2 buttons in sequence, idk what to tell you.
i hate how his deflect is on the light dodge button. i liked his heavy deflect beecause i could dodge and press heavy every time i didged without getting punished
Personally I guess I dont think his rework is too bad, he just gets away with too much, I'm not some high level player or anything im decent at best, but I personally cant react to all of these 500-300 ms attacks constantly, and even when I do I get punished for it, I think that's a little dumb, the only thing I can do is pray I parry something or wait until they run out of stamina. Having enhanced lights on every dodge attack, having a 32 damage heavy that cant be punished with a dodge attack, and every attack being under 600 ms (except for heavies) seems just a little busted to me
Git gud?
@@worstbadever7406 Cannot
Great video Freeze, totally agree on the dodge attack/deflect input, I think PK's change was a mistake that they would revert. Unless a hero has two dodge attacks or something (which I think no deflect hero has so far) the inputs should be distinct, simple as that.
As for Orochi's rework, I think I quite enjoy it, I'm getting beat up these days but guess I'll figure it out. Imagine trying to adapt in for honor, right?
I think it's a tad too early to actually present an opinion, but so far, I find Raider a bit scarier. I mean, he can LiGhTsPaM, so he must be pretty good
I think Warden needs a huge buff. At least in my oppinion he has not a single reliable option against dodge attack spam.
how about blocking
or parrying
@@MetalMouth54321 a warden main doesnt know what either of those are
ur clueless
@@MetalMouth54321 I said reliable option. And I dont believe you if you say that you can regulary parry lights.
@@breadaholic6445 Thanks, I am a prior main and I am pretty good at parrying heavies. Lights are much more difficult.
What do you use to calculate ms?
I just don’t like losing 90% of my health to an infinite chain and less than one bar of stamina
He is soo good and so well. But people complaining about is gonna ruin him. Maybe if they remove no bash after hit or whiffed bash and no followup light on whiffed bash. It will reduce the amount of read need to make.
I was thinking the same thing
The fact that Orochi can deflect any dodge attack punishes is so dumb. He wasn't in much need of a rework either most Orochi's were decent even in 1v1s. Meanwhile, there are characters who are forgotten about, so bad even that they need buffs/reworks, some are straight-up, not fun to play because everyone makes "reads" aka guess, which subtracts from the skill required to play and ruins the rewarding feeling for winning a fight. Nothing in this game is fun anymore, it's more "read" based now than skill.
Who was worst than Orochi? Orochi was the worst hero in the game.
Dude, orochi was perhaps the worst duelist in the game before the rework. Idk what you're talking about.
Many characters need reworks, but orochi was definitely one of them
@@aramusha6979
who was worst than Orochi? Shinobi. Zhanhu before his tweaks.
@@Lucidopherus lmao WAT?
Zhanhu was better than Orochi even before his twerks.
Shinobi was better than Orochi before Orochi's rework.
Orochi was the worse in the game.
Read = skill + experience. IMO it’s much more skillful to read your opponent and catch on to their patterns and punish those than to have everything be reaction based. More rewarding for me to outplay you than simply react.
Freeze who is your main?
6:00 I don't really understand why you say that because it doesn't matter anyway.
For example : Glad can dodge + zone to confirm either a deflect on the right timing or a dodge light if he miss.
Am I the only one using this trick? Pretty sure it works with every hero that have different inputs between dodge light and deflect.
I feel like ur using a bug, but it doesnt matter since most heroes have dodge attack and deflect on the same button
@@gottdashochstewesen4902 Yeah it's pretty much the old option select but on dodge.
PK bleed bash when? She should get unblockable lights, and if you parry them she should get a free deflect off it. Hey why not a hero that who's attacks track across the entire map? Or a hero that is invisible until they attack? I wonder if Ubi can't stand to test with each other in 4v4s because they'd get pissed at each other and wouldn't work with one another.
Alright I get that this is just an angry "character A op" comment but I'd actually really like an invisibility feat for shinobi or something. That'd be cool.
Only people whining are people who struggled against this insect to begin with or lied about it when they said they didn't
My experience as a day 1 Orochi main is that no matter what I do, others will always complain about me.
So I just decided to say fuck it and keep wiping the floor with everyone's face regardless. Whenever people complain I just ignore it nowadays
Facts. When I use 80% of orochis kit I still get called a lightspammer💀
this game is going nuts !
What erks me the most about him is how unbelievably stupid his kick looks (and sounds lol)
He jumps straight up in the air, literally tilts himself horizontally without any forward movement, kicks and reverts back to neutral.
Janky/butchered/patchworked animations like this one or HLs whole kit are one if my main arguments for a For Honor 2, after CCU and 3 quarantine heroes they should just start from scratch again
I actually don't think it's that bad
They cannot bring TG Orochi into the main game, he's too busted, you cant even punish most of his attacks now and all of his attacks have a decreased stamina consumption rate smh.
I mean most people are complaining about op characters which they can’t react and read to and what not and there is truth behind it, but honestly some characters are just fine and shouldn’t be nerfed to match their needs for a game where predictability leads to defeat
That's what I'm saying. For the most part Oro isn't safe on any of his stuff if he messes up and gets read he's eating some damage and is stuck in the opponent's mix up now, he's an assassin lol he don't got that much health to work with so he is a risk reward hero. People need to worry about characters like Hito and Shugo and BP, for the most part all these heroes tend to be very safe whenever they do anything. Hito has those variable timed heavies just like shugo where this is such a large amount of time where they can let it fly that it's stuuuuupid hard to actually try and snuff it out with a light or try and read and parry. Bp, is well. . . BP lol but for the most part shugo and Hito are the prime example overpowered because they don't have that risk if they preform the wrong attack or do the wrong thing. They can go crazy offensive or do nothing and just go for the guaranteed stuff, they have too many options. Least imo
I love oro and i dont care who complains honestly. Lovely vid freeze, keep up the good work :]
id have to agree on the deflects counter hyper armor
if you want to deal with hyper armor gb or parry after deflect
and what about nova king???? is he supposed to be a shaman main now?
I can’t wait for valk to be updates and not get any of these mechanic ignoring updates
Zhanhu needs faster dodge recovery cancels. Please.
Tbf I kinda dont see orochi and raider changes as that good.
Againts raider, if you don't have side dodge bash, you wont be able to fight him pretty much.
Other thing can be said about orochi, why press any buttons and attempt any offence againts character who is always able to counterattack with not many repercussions?
Your last question could literally be made for BP and Zhanhu
@@pain002 one has busted defensive move that forces you to be careful. other has actual offence that requires read and not overtuned offence that allows for defence just because you start mindlessly mashing buttons. Over years Ubi showed us where they are going with things and here it pretty much went over board compared to all other buffs and changes that we have received over years. They want viable offence, not overtuned offence
Against raider i find crushing counters and all guard work well, but of course raider just has to chained zone and slap you in the mouth for 38 damage, and Crushing counters are a risk. So yes side dodge bash. With orochi i can’t stand him now, they all seem to have Ps5 (coming from the chad 30fps lands) and just parry, and dodge cancel whatever i throw at them. 192940 reads needed
I love your vids, but I have to say, I really prefer deflects being on the same input as dodge attack. If I make a read and I decide to deflect, but fail to do so because of the very tight (100 ms) window on side deflects, I at least want to get that dodge attack in, instead of staring at the opponent or spamming heavy and light input, wondering whether I'll dodge attack or deflect.
Then you should be punished for missing the deflect what? It rewards players or makes it very safe for essentially just throwing out a dodge if you miss the timing you deserve to be punished.
@@oofboof5030 Makes it safe? How? If your opponent thinks you'll go for dodge attack/deflect, he can just parry it and against most heroes it gives him a light parry, so you're eating a heavy
Can you make an video about the shinobi testing grounds rework?
I think its decent, only thing i dont like is the ranged from neutral being removed, but i see people on twitter absolutely losing their minds over this rework, saying its horrible and that they'll never play for honor again.
I want to know your opinion on this proposed rework, because i have mixed feelings.
Glad deflect needs to beat hyper armor now
The next one who needs a rework is definetely lawbringer
So he can just cancel into light spam is what I’m seeing. Well from what I’ve seen from all the orochi’s these days. Faster spam due to cancel or whiffing
I mean he no longer has light finishers, so he can’t light spam anymore.
@@vapor_snake920 yeah he doesn’t have light finishers anymore but that doesn’t mean he can’t still light spam. Orochi is always going to be a hero that is based around lights. They give him tweaks here and there but that doesn’t change much really. You’ll just see a more ruthless light spam due to his recovery cancels
@@thesaltyterminator101 I don’t know. At my level, I see them using more of the 50/50 than the light spam.
@@vapor_snake920 well it would be nice to see that at least. I see a bunch of whiff kicks into light spam. Or just flat out light spam and storm rush only
@@thesaltyterminator101 at least light spam into storm rush can be beaten by lighting Orochi out of storm rush
Legit broke the game more than any hero released. I quit for honor until orochi is mega nerfed. Just not worth the rage
You will not be missed 😊
Really?🥺 shut up and go already😂
@@devonrounds5583 see above reply to RTG and apply it to yourself.
Edit: got deleted..so weak. Let me repost it
@@RTG2003 Long gone. Wave your tic tac at somebody else
I think making the recovery cancel possible only after an attack rather than everything (like whiffed bash) would be a step in the right direction
If you’re having trouble with orochi just go ahead and use aramusha
He’s to fast for him and you have to guess if he’ll kick or storm rush
tdlr: hes got a kick
Im so glad with thee new Roach man! Hes finally not just a lightspem hero!
I actually think hes not op, the meaning op has lost its meaning thanks to the noobs of the game.
Mayb some little tweaks but are we really gonna trust that Ubi wont ruin him in the process?
I would say, hyperarmor cancel on deflect attack shouldnt have been been put for his light deflect but on his heavy deflect imo.
Also, more stam consumption for storming rush to keep it from being taken advantage of
Tho it should still low enough to be able to use it mid chain
Definitely more stamina consumption
Just need to mess with his recoveries and being able to attack on whiff that make punishing a Orochi’s mistakes very hard. Then he’s fine.
Hey freeze, maybe this will seem whiny but just, as a casual player, please give me an honest reason to even bother trying trying play out of meta characters or even characters I deem fun to play when every match is just a the exact same basically 1 or 2 warlords, occasionally switch that out for a raider or even both. Plus add on shugokis and just. Idk, like I like playing shinobi and his rework is really fun but he still obviously hasn't really been moved up the tier list all that much. Might just be in a sour mood cuz of a bad few games but yeah... lemme know what you think if you want to.
I started playing Orochi after these changes. And it's super fun to play and play against
Super fun to play against
-probably a rep 50
@@hronybruh1500 no, just a person also playing orochi
@@hronybruh1500 actually an Orochi rep3 😅 I always found it somewhat clunky before the patch
My biggest issue is that his deflect interrupts HA. I'm not the biggest fan of the kick being able to dodge recovery cancel, but most orochis panic dodge attack if you dodge it, so it makes for easy light parries.
As a highlander main this won’t be fun lol
I still wish she had her usual deflects, but they interrupt hyper armor and the more deflects you do while charging the heavy, the damage is increased.
This will be the bane of all old Gen console players...
0:40 lmao he still is and they literally only made it worse
So, basically, Orochi is a run on sight character now... his kit has a answer for everything and has no holes. Hmmm... but paid for characters are boo boo out the gate, seems fair
I like that they kept an identity with the rework but... it takes less effort for the orochi to fight me than it does for me to fight the orochi and I feel like a fighting game shouldn't work like that :P
"Much awaited" lol who waited for this
Many orochi mains, I assume. Some people in this comment section even.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 now u only have to use 0% of your brain to win every fight
Never-ending orochi I'm looking at raiders! Everything has speeded up from lights and heavy and his zone cost 12 stamina!! Storming tap got nerfed ages ago but now it's back to broken (not as broken as pre nerf) overall I don't see any reason anyone would need to play any other hero other than raider with lighting speed light/heavy attacks with soft feign on heavy and zone witch involves mixup ups aswell....
Never mind the storm is coming, the raider is coming!!
- His lights got sped up from 600ms and 700ms to 500ms. You know, the same as everyone else.
- His opener heavies got sped up from 1000ms and 900ms to 900ms and 800ms respectively, so... the same as almost everyone else.
- His zone attacks are now treated as normal heavies with their new stamina costs because that's how Raider uses them, losing half your stam throwing a single attack was ridiculous.
- Storming Tap is now an actual move people might want to use, unless you also think shaman and PK's dagger cancels are also broken in which case... idk what to tell you.
In other words, Raider is now a functioning hero playable in 4s and 1v1s and is made pretty good with the removal of option selects. I fail to see the problem.
@@WillowMelody you tested him, in the testing ground? Me and 2 friends are and we are out lightspamming everything, reason is his animation on the swing is shorter than most hereos hence why his lights where slower in the first place, the zone is not just a "normal heavy" it does deal the same 24 damage as a heavy but its an ublockable that be be done without chain and hard or soft feigned witch is pure ridiculous for 12 stamina especially when raider heavy is uninterrupted stance and has insane tacking on dodges it may aswell be undodable aswell as blockable.... why not make all his heavy unblockable and undodable?
3 raider insta kill any player caught in a wall splat (wall splat 8snt hard with 3 raiders)
8-0 so far 3 raiders in testing grounds 4 players tend to pick raider to to match us and its pure broken.
Aboslute mayhem! 😂😂😂
@@The-Spanish-Inquisition490 His lights are 500ms, the exact same length as everyone else's lights. The animation is the same length, the indicator length is the same (as in 100ms is hidden since CCU), the active frames are the same. In fact the only lights that changed were his 2nd and 3rd top lights, which people barely used in the first place.
His zone attack is slow and has no hyper armor, its only strength is that it's unblockable and it can be soft feinted, which are definitely good but he can be slapped out of it easily (most zones can't be), it's parryable (Glad and Black Prior aren't), and the soft feint option comes from the same side every time and nets you a heavy if you parry it.
And no, you're not instant killing people off of a wall splat with three Raiders. Even if we pretend damage reduction doesn't factor in and all three Raiders are doing their highest damage neutral attacks (top heavies for 27 damage) you're dealing 81 damage (but one has to stampede charge them to the wall, so they're not getting a top heavy). Anything beyond that isn't guaranteed because you're not gonna be in hitstun anymore.
And finally, Raider's changes are live, not on the testing grounds. So in general you just seem to have zero clue about what you're talking about in every possible way. If you're lightspamming people to death consistently as a fullstack of Raiders and winning every single match, you're probably playing on last gen consoles and/or against bad players... which, given the skill level being demonstrated by your statements, is more likely than not.
@@WillowMelody yes I am insta killing with 3 raiders off a wall splat.....
We caught a shaman on the Japan map with the little island with the 2 bridges and wall first raider wiffed due to panic dodge and my friend caught on her recovery for a wall splat all 3 raiders full punish = instant kill.... rinse and repeat.... Work even better with goki with iron lungs feat because he's literally the fastest moving hero for reason.
And explain how everyone's animation is the same .... like highlander will always out light most... raider now out lights most... orochi is fast but makes up on garenetted lights if chained...
When raider swings from point A to point B (not objectives) its totally different from others just because there the same speed doesn't mean that others won't hit before another if used at the same time.
As for the zone I could have worded it better I was mainly referring to raiders heavy attacks on the uninterrupted stance just measly comparing as it seems worthless having a heavy with unblockable from neutral why not just rework the entire zone attack keep it 50 stamina .
As for the heavy well... its lightning fast when chained in a mix up its almost on par with the light! Regardless of what ubisoft say the MS is, it's great! I love raping people in the training grounds with the rework raider is my new main if this stays. Zero skill needed just button mash hit sift feign or guard break every now again and win 90% of games only lost 1 so far and that was because we was up against a premade of 4 raider while we where premade of 3 and a random shinobi 😂
But regardless of what you or I say lets just let people judge for themselves, but I highly recommend the instant kill (honest it works)
@@The-Spanish-Inquisition490 my man you and your friend being able to light Spam everything and get by says a lot about the Elo you are in right now. Continue and you will face players that will shut you down no problem at all
Honestly can we get this quality of buffs for literally anyone that's not a samurai? Or even then there's enough characters, add single pick or pick/ban please, I'm bored of only fighting pampered samurai