She was drinking and driving and wrecked her car.A man driving a bus stops and asked her if she was ok and she told him that she already called triple AAA and she told him not to call the cops. Why did she tell him not to call the cops? She was drunk and didn't wanna get a DUI. Keep in mind that she had dogged getting a DUI a couple of days prior to her disappearance. Also, keep in mind that she had prior legal problems and probably didn't wanna add to these problems by getting a DUI. I'm assuming thought she was aware that it was just a matter of time before the cops showed up at the scene and to put it bluntly, she needed to get the fuck out of there. She got into a car with someone to flee the scene and avoid a DUI. Her scent wasn't tracked into the woods. Her scent was tracked down the street from the crash site and the scent suddenly dissapeared, which strongly suggest's she got into the car.
This sounds very logical.. She is kind of messed and irresponsible.. Yeah I can see that.. Running away of problems.. Getting in a car.. Probably drunk..
The accounts of her friends the weekend before are definitely very odd in my eyes. I mean, if your friend goes missing wouldn't you give ANY information about what may have happened at the party? Even if you saw her leaving with someone, unless that person has threatened people into not talking about it, 'being too scared' to say anything about what happened seems ultra strange. I mean she has gone missing, you aren't going to be getting her into any more trouble by saying she was cheating on her boyfriend. If that was something Sara Alfieri actually said to police, surely they wouldn't accept that? Anyway great episode, John! I had never heard of this story before now but is definitely an interesting one! I kind of want to hear more about Kate's dad trying to blow up his neighbour! O_o Possible future BrainScratch? ;)
+Veggie Gamer I agree with you Veggie, in regards to the whole issue of the friends "too scared" to tell their accounts of the weekend before. That struck me incredibly odd when John said that. I don't know? This whole case is really darn odd. So many questions, but where to start? I think of her dad, but then someone else could've been involved in her disappearance. I'm not feeling the whole suicide possibility. I have no idea why I don't. Just do. Ugh, brain hurts! lol
+Veggie Gamer it kinda makes you think either something threatening has happened or they know she intended to disappear or an absolutely unfounded theory that she was pregnant or something like that. its funny he tried to blow up the neighbor what with? like usually they say tried to kill neighbour but actually blow up
Jo Wallace Yeah it was really the only part of the video which stood out as strange. As for what happened to Maura, there are just so many possibilities, but not giving all the information they could (particularly saying that they were too scared) definitely doesn't make finding out any easier.
I am 5'1" and got into an accident that was a pretty decent head-on vs guardrail, and my head hit the windshield and spidered the glass up towards the top edge - so perhaps it's possible that she as 5'7" could hit the windshield the same... is it possible she got a concussion and this affected her behavior?
*5:20* *"Her father served time in prison for trying to blow up his neighbor "* Idk why, but that made me choke on my coffe, I was laughing so hard. I know it's not funny, but...it kinda is. 😅😂 😑
AlphaDeltaXray I felt that way too. Normally you'd say "he tried to blow up his neighbour's home" or "he attempted to kill his neighbour". The choice of words is what makes it funny.
I've listened to the entire podcast. It comes out later that Fred Murray did not offer up to the police that he had told Maura to put the rag in her tail pipe. She had stopped at a store ab out a mile before she crashed and a lot of ppl think someone might have put the rag in the pipe while she was in the store knowing it would cause the car to staul. Could have actually been the reason for the crash in the 1st place. It also comes out that the make-up Maura stole while at West Point happened something like a year before she decided to leave so I don't think that had anything to do with it. I do not believe she was intending to end her life. I think she just needed a break. Her father and older sister were tough on her, plus the pressures of school, track team, family etc. It's my belief she wanted to get away in the White Mountains which was her favorite place in the world and met with foul play. Someone may have played a part in her crash or took advantage of the situation after it happened.
Ok so you listened to the whole podcast? Can u answer my questions above about what the Wiki article said about some dude giving Frank a rusty knife and implicating that his brother and bro's gf were acting very strange around that time period??? Did the podcast go into that at all? Also, why aren't the "friends" talking? Were they hushed by police bc its ongoing? What about the cadaver dogs that "went bonkers" in the a-frame house mentioned in the wiki article? Lol, sorry for the questions, it's just that you've listened to the podcast, so I figured I'd ask you before I attempted to listen to 9,000 hours of podcasts. I agree with your theory though about not being suicidal, and just wanting to get away, and meeting foul play....
I've wondered it it was pure coincidence that the crash happened at a point where mobiles didn't work... If not then it suggests that it was the work of someone who lived locally.
AK you need to learn the info you get is all there is , the police ALWAYS have info they WONT release , especially when the person is still missing ,, the closest thing ive heard that makes sense is the A frame theroy ,, the police and forensics found traces of human blood in the upstairs closet,, i think the house was a seasonal cottage type house and it was known the people who own it are not there year round ,, the house is right by the accident scene , so i mean that creepy guy dirtbag112 could be the guy who did it you never know
Her relationship with billy didn't sound stable. Billy cheated on her apparently and then she possibly cheated on him too, not really the sign of a happy couple
Angeline D that's not entirely fair to say. She certainly made mistakes as we all have. She's not here to tell her side. There's always more to a story. And possible mental health issues. Depression etc.. Your wording is rude.
Wow! Yessss John, THIS is the type of Brain Scratch story that I enjoy...the kind that allows us viewers to be the "armchair detectives", loved this episode!! Oh and hey, if u ever start that podcast and need a co-host, Holla at cha girllll! I'd love to scratch brains with you (haha, wait that sounds weird!) Anyways! Here's my theory: I feel like she got outta the car and maybe a car that passed by offered to give her a ride? My intuition struck REAL hard when I read in the wiki article about the dude that gave the dad a rusty knife saying his brother and brothers gf were acting real shady around the same time. Being a woman, if I was in Maura's shoes, and a younger couple approached and said "hey we can give u a ride to call your dad" or something, or they said "bring that bottle of Kahlua and vodka, we got milk, just stay and party with us tonight, and tomorrow we'll bring u back to the car", if they seemed nice enough (and I was still my young, dumb self), I might consider it...
+GeekenDorx did that theory ever get checked into that you know of (the brother and his gf?) like did the podcast mention it? I'm still up in the air about her being suicidal. I feel like she wanted to leave the school. Like maybe she DID get into trouble? The first thing I thought when reviewing the wiki site was that she had developed a pill addiction, or some kinda drug/alcohol addiction. Clearly she was using alcohol to get her Thru a rough time, and she couldn't go without long enough to drive to her destination, which I'm assuming would be around 3 hours??? I understand she was 21, but if she didn't learn her lesson from nearly getting caught the week before, then either she had a problem, or just didn't give a F. I want to know why those 2 destinations were her choice. One might've been a vaca spot, but the other wasn't. Maybe a dude she was cheating with lived in that area??? Maybe she got involved with her sisters fiancé and he caught feelings and she felt bad??
+Allison Keirsey Thanks Allison, and I will certainly keep you in mind for a podcast. I really like your analytical insights, and your posts are always enjoyable to read. :-) Take care and have a great holiday season!
+Allison Keirsey I haven't heard it on the podcast yet, but I'm not through all the episodes. You raise a good point about her addiction/mindset, and I think her family is also wondering what/who she was traveling to. I'm not sure that the amount of money she had would last more than a few days if you're also paying for a hotel.
I thought the opposite - that Maura somehow found out that her boyfriend had slept with her sister. Given that she was supposedly two-timing her boyfriend it would seem a bit hypocritical to get so upset about him doing the same - but if it was with her own sister it would be much more understandable. The pattern of lots of short calls and not wanting to talk seems pretty typical of people going through a fraught time, and not at all consistent with people just discussing plans for Valentine's Day.
It seems to me that she was picked up and killed by a psychopath. That or she managed to get away and start over under a new identity, which is quite a stretch. These are the only two ways to explain no body being found. If she killed herself, the body would've been found, period. If she was murdered and buried deep in the ground in some remote area...well...
Its most likely the wrong person picked her up, becuase starting a new life is a stretch, especially for someone in her situation...she would have gotten desperate quickly to get in anyones car...I know Id be scared as fuck.
Thank you. So many creepy people surrounding her. The girls in the dorm, the red truck people, the cadet, the abusive bf, and those NH backwoods dirt bags, plus others. It just spins and spins itself more suspects. God bless.
I think that a forensic examination of her computer would be so helpful. I would like to see what she was doing,searching and who she was communicating with prior to her disappearance.
John new info has surfaced concerning sexual assaults conducted on West Point around the time Maura was a student. I'm beginning to think her rash actions may have actions caused by anxiety due to a traumatic event; that someone she knew and was close to was a victim of one of those assaults.............
I remember in the Disappeared episode they mentioned that her boyfriend had a voicemail message from Maura that night, and all it consisted of was something like "faint breathing". Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Because Fred's house was being foreclosed on & yet Fred came up with $4000 cash which he placed in an account for Maura. For a father who is down on his luck to give that amount of money to his daughter, it must have been for a very important reason. She must have been in an urgent situation.
How about that sick man who filmed himself laughing manically and titled his youtube video the last known coordinates of Maura. I believe that he was ruled out but still it was creepy as hell.
If the rag in the exhaust pipe suggestion had nefarious intent on Fred's part, I doubt that he would admit to the police that he gave that advice to his daughter.
Sounds like someone hurt her at West Point - and silenced her with the 'make up theft' (not saying she didn't do it, just speculating that it would be a good scare tactic to shut up a kid 🤷🏽♀️). Strange and sad story. I hope they find her one day - or at least find out what happened 💐
I saw this story on Disappeared. Fred gave me very weird feelings from the moment he showed up in the story. I couldn't help but wonder if he is not the loving caring father he wants the world to believe...her behavior could be a sign of someone who was abused as a child. I wonder if we will ever know what happened to her?
His presence is weaved all in and around this. It would explain why her friends are afraid to talk. If he went shopping with her for alcohol for the party, it's not much of a stretch to think he would help her cover up a DUI and/or accident. The only thing that prevents me from thinking he picked her up at the accident site, is how fast she disappeared. Could HE be the possible male in the passenger seat? Another thing itching at me was this: Around midnight, Monday, February 9, shortly after speaking with her father, Maura used her personal computer to search MapQuest for directions to The Berkshires and Burlington, Vermont." It's almost as if his call instigated the preparations for her departure.
That one investigator blogger got an internet message at his blog that she just wanted to move on... Seems like, if that was his webpage, he could ping that message and find out the IP it came from!
will Nill : Hey Will, since you have nothing to add but negative childish comments why don't you try being kind? I've seen other pathetic comments you posted and they are very telling. Look for attention elsewhere. This is a very serious subject. I don't understand why you have to be mean/negative to people who are just trying to help figure this mystery out. Be nice to people. It's so much easier to be kind....? Thanks
After watching these two episodes i had a listen to most of the podcasts. I think the most simple explanation was she was getting away from her troubles for a week, had a few drinks in her car and had a prang. Worried about being caught for DUI she took a few drinks and decided to find a place to lay low for the night. There was a very sad case this year locally to me of an American woman that went missing and a huge search with dogs helicopters never found her. 3 months later she was found by a local ground team, not far off a path that had been searched but under thick trees. My point is this was in a rural area with many footpaths used by hikers and dog walkers in the sumer months. Maura sadly was in New hampshire in winter where the wilderness is vast and even stumbling a couple of miles into the forest, then finding a secluded spot to get away from the elements would make it very hard to be found. I think her mindset of wanting to be alone and wanting to drink would make it unlikely she would get into another persons car willingly. If you are depressed and drinking all you want to be is alone. There is however many conflicts and other things that happened maybe coincidentally or not.
+simon jones Really good point about the state of mind when intoxicated, and she clearly wanted to either be alone.. or flee to someone else (I'm really not sure which). Great insight and thought put into your post.. thank you Simon!
shed have been found by now tho...you cant do much in life without using your name and ID my opinion, she was in a desperate situation, whether she realized that or not...i mean youre walking around a road you dont know, its dark and prolly cold, the police are on the way...she would have taken a ride with just about anyone who pulled up. So its impossible to say who that was, but some creep prolly took her. Anytime a 21 year old hot girl vanishes, its always kidnapping, then rape, then murder. Unfortunately, its impossible to say who she went with as it could have been anyone that passed.
it's pretty obvious to me as a young girl in my twenties that has had horrible setbacks in my life where tiny bad choices seem to end in disaster, and where you are in this place where deviant bad behaviors make you feel better, that she intended to go on a trip to get away from everyone and think about her life, and drink on the way there. when she crashed she must've been worried that she'd get stopped if she kept driving because of the damage to her car, and get caught drunk driving and faking an emergency to leave school, ect. which is the same reason that she abandoned her car. she probably realized that the police were gonna show up, and now people have a description of her car and whatnot. it sounds crazy, but she was probably pretty drunk and she thought the better thing to do was to abandon her car and maybe try to walk far enough to get cell reception so someone could come get her if the cops towed her car, or if they didnt to just hide out for a bit in the woods until she sobered up enough to come back, either way making up a story about what happened, why she left, ect. she needed time to think about what she was gonna do, and she had to get away before the cops got there. she wasn't thinking clearly, obviously. she abandoned her car on purpose, she was just scared of getting caught again, and in her mind anything was better than that. ive been there, it's a super dangerous mindset. she abandoned her car and started walking or hiking through the woods to hide or de-stress and think of a plan/sober up or walked to get reception to call one of her friends to come get her... either way, her intention was to avoid trouble with the police, ect. what's even more likely to me is a situation where she grabbed the bailey's and her cards (she didn't wanna leave them to get stolen and if she had to get picked up she'd need them) and she went on a little drunk hike on purpose because she just didn't wanna deal with everything right then, intending to go back when she had calmed down a bit, thought up her story and was ready to deal with all of that. she probably thought she'd be fine because she hiked all the time, and running away for awhile and not letting anyone know where you are or if you're okay is another form of this kind of self gratifying deviant behavior that even I used to do when in trouble because of my own bad choices. but something bad happened to her. she got lost or hurt out there and froze, or some horrible man offered her a ride and, out of desperation and lack of clear thinking, she took it. you wouldn't believe how many men stop and try to pick you up when you're walking alone, even in the city, even during the damn day. let alone in the country, at night, in the cold/snow. that gives them an even better excuse to stop and talk to you. it's nonstop, literally. I feel sorry for her. she wasn't a bad girl, she just felt like these small deviant behavior related mistakes (doing stupid stuff like stealing makeup, of all things, drinking while driving, using a credit card number that wasn't hers because she randomly found it in the trash, ect) had already ruined her life and wouldn't go away. no matter how good she was, and regardless of the good things she did, like get straight a's for such a long time, ect, those dumb things, in her mind, had just become so insurmountable and we're getting worse, and it's like, I don't even care anymore. I'm gonna do what I want, ect. she probably started the smaller deviant behaviors like stealing makeup due to the fact that her family turmoil and suffering made her feel different from others inside, she couldn't relate to their normalcy and happiness, so you start acting different, then people start treating you differently, then you end up getting in with a bad crowd that you relate to more strongly that encourages these behaviors, its just an endless cycle. she just made a bad decision that I easily could've made a couple years ago and it cost her her life. she reminds me of my old self so much I can't stand it. rip maura. seriously, rest in peace.
Scarlett Says I totally agree. People act like the destructive behaviors/mistakes she were making meant she was running away to start a new life etc. If I went missing at her age and they looked into my life. I would of gotten the same treatment. Your 20s are a crazy time for some people. I just think she was going through a rough patch and she was too immature to handle it. I think she ran away from the scene and didn't realize how dangerous that was because she was drunk. RIP Maura.
Really enjoy your videos and how clear you are with your sources and information, especially in a case with as much noise and speculation as this one. Would also love to see you make a video about Brianna Maitland, which remains a big mystery to this day.
+bhbrewster Hope you are ok (with the exception of your hand)! Many years ago I had an accident where the airbag deployed. Really bruised my face, but it did its job.
Ouch! I'm glad you weren't hurt too badly! They had some serious power, but I'm glad they were there! I'm alright, thanks. Just bruised, but grateful I was the only one involved.
Man if that was just someone trolling that's sad that someone needs to get attention in that manner... if it really was her tracking the IP could potentially close this case. but if she was using a public WiFi or if the troll was doing so then it may not turn up anything at all.....
If she was planning to kill herself, why would she have cared to leave enough money in her account to keep it from being closed? That's always bugged me.
I agree and why would she call her instructors with the made up story of a death in the family? If she was planning suicide, she wouldn't need to find a way to be excused for the week. She wouldn't have brought her study books and syllabus along. I wonder if a predator stuffed a rag in her exhaust pipe and then followed her waiting for the vehicle to stall. Maybe the cause of the accident was related to asphyxiation and perhaps drinking too. My gut tell me that that rag is the source of the mystery.
One thing for sure. She was an undercover alcoholic. Two one-person accidents in a short period of time. Plus the bus load of alcohol she purchased. One thing I don't agree with is the dad having a thing to do with it. He would have had to known the location of the crash and made it there before police. Side note: John I was really hoping to hear more about your opinion of what happened and the sighting of her at a near by gas station.
My thoughts are that she ran from the scene to avoid a DUI, ran down the road a bit, perhaps off on a side road, and into the woods to wait out the cops and sober up a bit. Unfortunately she succumbed to the elements. She had good reasons for avoiding the cops, she was on probation from the credit card incident and would likely see jail time if arrested again. Not only that to be a nurse, you need a clean criminal record. Not to mention how angry her father would be with a second accident and charges. She thought fleeing was her best option at the time. Wonder if the rag was soaked in wine and she tried to hide it in the tailpipe?
This isn't a case I've done much extensive research on so I hesitate to even offer a theory, but one idea I've started to kick around as it relates to analyzing cases is to look at the case as a whole and then form an initial theory or theories, prior to delving deep into all the intricate details that make up the case. Essentially take a glance at the case, and form a theory of what could have transpired before I start going down the rabbit hole. Often times I feel once I go down the rabbit hole of details, and information, I tend to start getting focused on small details and lose sight of the initial feel I had for the case. With all that said, here are the general thoughts I have about Maura's disappearance. First off I am of the belief that Maura was a very troubled young woman. How that pertains to what actually happened to her I'm not sure but I do believe it's worth noting that Maura was clearly struggling emotionally prior to her disappearance. The first solid conclusion I came to was that Maura had to have left the area where she was last seen in another vehicle. I see little to chance that she could have left the area on foot. She had none of the resources that would be required to hike out of an area like that. So if we are fairly certain it wouldn't have been possible for her to get out of the area on foot without any of the proper resources,it leaves us with the high probability Maura left in a vehicle. Obviously she didn't leave in her vehicle so she must have left in some unknown persons vehicle. Now whether she left in this vehicle willingly or against her will is uncertain. I could easily see Maura flag down a passing motorist and ask for a ride. I could also easily see a passing motorist noticing a young woman walking on the side of this rural road and stopping to pick her up, either forcefully or of her own volition. But either way, I believe she left in an vehicle. Unfortunately when you draw the conclusion that she likely left in an unknown vehicle, the area in which she could be expands exponentially. Regarding the theory that her father could be involved in her disappearance..I fail to see how he could have known where she was at the time of her disappearance. Unless he was following her or had some type of tracking device on her car I don't see it being possible. She may have called him after hitting the tree, asked him to come out there and pretend he had been the one driving at the time of the accident as to avoid DUI charges against her. Maybe he did come out there, picked her up, and a fight ensued between them. She had crashed two cars in a short period of time and both accidents apparently occurred after she had been drinking. It's possible he was angry about this, they got into a dispute that escalated into a physical fight and Maura wound up dying as a result. I have to assume the police thoroughly checked out the bus driver neighbor to make sure he wasn't involved in her disappearance. With all that said I am currently leaning towards Maura being picked up by a passing motorist who she initially went with willingly but later turned out not to let her go.
they really should track that troll down because yeah thats kinda messed up like why someone would be doing this could it also be a serial killer taunting people from what I do know is that New Hampshire is full of Woods like you wouldn't want to be caught in the woods because of other animals but when your drinking your not really thinking so yeah im also thinking she could be with her boy friend in OK but like wouldn't the BF tell the family I don't know
I think she's alive. She looks very much like the bank fraud suspect (TD North?, 2006) in NH. Heavier, different hairstyle, but very similar. It's certainly a notch above her previous crimes, but I think it's very possible. I think when James Renner called her a sociopath (he later changed his mind about that), he was actually on the right path.
I still have not heard a plausible explanation for why Maura was driving with $40 of liquor and SIX boxes of sleeping pills if her intention was not suicide.
I first thot suicide, then drunk and in the elements. But after watching documentaries and listening to the Missing Maura Murray podcasts, especially #34? Or the one with the new vlogger who lives at UMASS and has some great points about her car and living at UMASS, i now think it was the bus driver. He was the last to see and speak to her. He may have invited her to gather her things and come up to his house, then she was fatally injured or she was murdered. Cadaver dogs alerted at his house.
You do an extremely good job of presenting these cases and staying level-headed with the information. If you ever need any more factual information about the Maura Murray case, I would be glad to assist or provide information. I am a former journalist (sports reporter albeit) but I took a special interest in this case around 2010 and have actually researched and interviewed folks involved in this case and have contributed to both James Renner's blog and the Podcast of Tim and Lance. I do think Maura took her own life, but I have explored just about every theory there is about this case and have some good info.
I have myself gone off that same corner when I was in high school and there is quite a ditch there before the trees. I had to actually have someone pull my car back into the road with a pickup truck. Although there is a lot of talk about her hitting trees is it possible that she hit the ditch causing damage to her car? I guess I'm thinking perhaps she hit the ditch and sort of mini nose dived which may also explain how something could be thrown about in the car to cause the spider damage to her window that I've heard were too high on the window to be impact by her head (because she was short) and no one noted she might have been injured in anything I've read.
I think she's in the forest. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this but someone with alcohol in their system is more susceptible to hypothermia. The bus driver saw her shivering. She was cold, but I think she decided to head to the gas station. Her credit card and bank card were never used, so it seems they are still with her. I think she took some alcohol either to dump it or drink it to warm up. I think the trail ends because she crossed the street. The gas station I believe was on the opposite side. I think she then went in the woods, maybe thinking it was a short cut or the trees would block the wind and it would be warmer, and froze. She left a lot in the car so it would seem she meant to come back.
Been binging this case again and you said both airbags had deployed. I don't know if cars back then worked the same, but cars now, are only supposed to have the airbags that have people in the seats, go off. Could this be an overlooked sign that she did have a passenger? Or, did this model of car just go airbag crazy on impact? Thanks John!
What if a taller person was driving her car...just a thought, but maybe there was no blood on the windshield wonder if they tested the windshield for that?
I live in NH .... and I actually never heard of this case. I will surely be listening to the podcasts and keeping an open eye. I also have another brainscratch topic you might be interested in. It would probably be better as a miniscratch episode, but it's a eerie mystery from NH that has gone unsloved since the 80's .... here are 2 links to check out ... I would also like to point out I am very familiar with Allenstown NH / Bear Brook State Park where this mystery happened. I camped there as a kid, and then dated someone on that road in highschool. I also did an entire article about hauntings in that area when I was apart of a paranormal website. I actually had no idea about this case when I wrote that. I only recently discovered it, but it's truly sad, and maybe if you decide to do a show on it, it might help shed new light on it. These poor victims have never had anyone come forward looking for them, nor has their ever been anyone connected with their murder. Hopefully someone out there will be able to help with the Bear Brook case, or Maura Murray. NH is an easy place to go when you want to hide .... especially far up north near the Canadian boarder. We have a lot of land up here that is massively undeveloped .... so disappearing in this neck of the woods is easy. If she is still alive I hope one day she comes forward so her loved ones can find resolution. Here are the links ........... Huge fan of your series keep up the great work!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Brook_murders www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/11/09/thirty-years-later-murders-woman-girls-continues-baffle/I7n4d1NKACqfFhnIwAnVVP/story.html www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new-hampshire-bodies-mystery/
Your very welcome :) .... I love your video's, and I think what you do is wonderful. It shows the family and friends of missing persons / unsolved murders that there are people out there that care, and that their loved one hasn't been forgotten. I think what makes missing person cases all the more troubling isn't just that it's a mystery, but that they have been forgotten about ..... as long as there are people like you out there it shows their loved ones that they shouldn't loose hope. Keep up the great work! Hopefully we can all help a few of these cases get new light shed on them!
I've heard and read a good deal about this case. I honestly don't know what happened to this girl that night. Some things prior to that night do stand out to me, though. This girl had red flags flying all over the place! Let's start with the perfectionistic tendencies she showed from an early age. Perfect grades. Bulimia. And, by the way, not all bulimics purge via laxatives or vomiting...some excessively exercise. Let's see, perfectionism and an eating disorder...shall we talk about the frequent correlation between those two things and sexual abuse? There were other things, though. Criminal/delinquent behavior. Theft while at West Point IS a violation of the code of conduct and can get you tossed in short order (incidentally, not only was daddy "very" involved with her sports, but also "pushed" her to go to West Point...interesting that her younger sister actually graduated from there). She committed credit card fraud. I know somebody who did prison time for that (though this girl managed to run up some SERIOUS debt) and it was even her parent's card...but I digress. I don't know if she'd completed the terms of her plea deal. If not, a DUI would definitely not fall into the category of "good behavior", though. Two drunk driving incidents within a week? First of all, daddy helping her acquire booze for a dorm party then handing her the keys to his new car? Over permissive parenting can also be a sign of abuse! This girl was spiraling out of control...and fast! She had a wholly inappropriate long term relationship with her track coach...whether she was of legal age or not! IMHO he should face disciplinary action for that. Did something happen at the party the previous weekend that set her off? Was it the conversation with her sister, Kathleen? Incidentally, it was Kathleen's ex-husband that said Fred was a dangerous person, not her mother's. They spoke about her sister's husband's infidelity. I saw somebody suggest that Maura might have been involved in a relationship with him as well. Not to besmirch his character, but it would kinda fit her profile...healthy boundaries did not seem to be this girl's strong suit (yet another sign of abuse...). My gut reaction is that this girl had intentions of leaving her life behind one way or another. She was making plans to return to a place where she'd spent happier days. She packed up her entire room. She had excessive amounts of alcohol with her. And she had her "favorite stuffed animal" in the car with her that her long time boyfriend (after leaving him a printed email reminding him of the time he cheated on her) had given her...INSIDE the car with her. If indeed the dogs didn't track her into the woods and tracked her only a few yards down 112, then I think it's safe to assume she got into a vehicle. Some people have stated that the police mishandled this investigation. Something has been bothering me about this, so I'm just gonna put it out there. The time between the neighbor calling and the police arriving was 20 minutes. She was standing outside her car having conversations with a couple passersby. Then she retrieves some things from her car, locks it and starts down the road. This all took time. Could it have taken 20 minutes? Could it have been a police car she got into? I know nothing about the officer involved so this is mere speculation. I've just always thought the time frame was a little tight...and she HAD been drinking. I sincerely hope that a good soul happened by...be it law enforcement or somebody else. Somebody whom she told her story to. Somebody who decided to help her start over. Somebody safe. But I honestly don't know what happened to this girl.
Ironically, I think you're warmer than many on here who _know_ more or less what happened, who in all their self-assured sagacity have never solved a case in their lives.
All signs point to Maura being a lifelong overachiever and “encouraged” by her over-involved father. He can’t stop talking about her ‘perfection’. That’s a lot of pressure for a young woman. I had a college roommate who had an impossible & heavy class load; she needed to do well to please her family. At semester break she “ran away” with a guy friend - to a small quiet town. She never came back but her family finally located her - she was happy with her “new” life and relieved of her former Stress level.
A strange thought struck me when John mentioned hiking in the White Mountains. I've been to the top of Mt. Washington and up there, there s a plaque that shows the names and ages of all the hikers who have fallen to their deaths. It is updated quite often. You don't suppose Maura made it there and had an accident? I mean is it possible to have a hiking accident and NOT be found? Just a thought....
Excellent stuff. Really interesting. On another note, have you heard about the mysterious hiking deaths of tourists Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon in 2014. If you think this is interesting enough, I would love to see a BrainScratch on this.
I think she freaked out after the accident knowing that she’d be in trouble especially since she had a history of driving drunk! So she took off & ended up getting lost in the woods!
These guys, running the missing Maura channel, are still doing videos to this day. Their last video is 5 days. Incredible. I've gotten hooked on their channel. 'Lot of interesting stuff. 'Lot of interviews with the right people.
I think someone picked her up at the accident scene... So my questions would be: Who picked her up? Did they kill her, or did they help her run? I do believe she wanted to leave and start over.
+throb9, When you mean by "starting over", do you mean start over with a new identity, "New life"? or start over meaning clear her head, take time off and put her life into perspective. I think that's what she was trying to do (option 2) and unfortunately is a victim of foul play at the scene of the accident.
you may want to look into the Disappearance of Brianna Maitlandas it is somewhat similar to the case of Maura even happened in a nearby Vermont town maybe some connection?
I drove a Tow Truck in Boston for many years specializing in Police MVAs. The crack in the windshield is a stress crack from the DS Airbag. The vehicle damage is slight due to hitting a snowbank before the tree. The rag will, not might, will make exhaust gases seep into the passenger compartment, unless there are holes in the exhaust. It will cause the catalyst to overheat and burn through the floor of the vehicle. It being wet and snowy probably saved her from a fiery death on the interstate.
Ayee Jon just wanna say I really enjoyed this BrainScratch!. Can't wait to see ya do more on it! And I found this video of the drive Maura last took I thought maybe you'd wanna see it if ya haven't!
Wow! Okay, so after watching this on Friday, I pretty much dove in. I am listening to the podcast now, with just a couple of episodes left. How in the world did you get these facts into such a concise package for this video?! Such a fascinating case. Thanks, as always, for all of your work on these! I look forward to the next one.
From all theories I've read about her case, I feel the most plausible scenario is that she walked and hid herself or asked for help in one of those houses down the road. After that, maybe some neighbor took advantage of Maura... there is one guy who was a temporary builder, right? Perhaps her body is hidden in one of his construction sites and police can't verify without a search warrant.
Hey John, I don't know if you believe psychics, tarot and stuff, but for these mysterious cases without tracks, any info could be helpful, right? I've found a great tarot reading for Maura, which is similar to my theory above. What do you think? solarspectrumtarot.blogspot.com/2013/02/maura-murray.html
+Opera Mauve A very interesting read, and your theory about her being on private property is certainly plausible. We know in the Brandon Lawson case that private property has provided to be an obstacle to conducting complete searches.
It's more likely someone made her disappear. Her life was so messed up that it's unlikely she could put together a disappearance and not screw that up. I'd bet that her remains will be found within 12 miles of the accident.
I hit a tree head on in 2011 and my head did the same thing to the shield BUT I did not have my seat belt on and the cracked webbing where my head hit was much lower and I am 6’0 to a tee - Plus, my car was wrapped around the tree, completely totaled.. So, I doubt that was her head
Happy to see another brainscratch. I am truly amazed at how often things like this happen, it's scary. From what I got from part 1 of this, it's easy to see why some people could think that she wanted to either kill herself or maybe start fresh somewhere else, however, as many of these cases go, there are weird circumstances; like the dorm being all packed, why would one take out most of their money only to kill herself? Why are so many afraid to say what happened at that party? Great job, love these brainscratchs. On another matter, is the trial for Elisa Lam done, am I wrong in thinking they were in November.
This story has all the plot twists of a Quentin Tarantino movie. What if she was actually planning to commit suicide, then got in an accident and was picked up and murdered by a serial killer?
you really gotta hear everything in this case and not be trapped in a rabbit hole n remember it's all about getting justice for this beautiful woman,M.M who just wanted to fix her life n not be controlled by father's n boyfriends nor shady ppl who just use you for what you got n don't truly love or care for her heart n soul..im her age i remember life in 2004 like it was yesterday n times n so many thing's hv changed or come about since 04 it's mind blowing..n yes my final opinion n 2 cents not csuse of her father or fam. but KATE MARCOPOLIS keeps inside key n valuable info that she will nvr share n she's shady as hell weather poor maurry is dead or alive..i pray for family n all my deepest caring wishes to you all...**God Bless them #!**
I wouldn't be surprised if she took off. I graduated in '04' and I knew a number of people who went to the Umass Nursing program the year before and my year and I heard it was one of the hardest programs at Umass. That could also be rumor, but I remember distinctly hearing it was a VERY hard course to actually get through and people dropped it all the time because of this.
Really enjoyed this BrainScratch. I haven't heard any of the podcasts, but something that kept coming to mind, even before the mention of her dad being a bad guy, is that maybe she was molested by her father or another family member. I realize this is purely speculation on my part. Her behavior, from possibly stealing makeup and credit card numbers, to potentially alcoholism and bulimia, to the night she crashed her dad's car (possibly on purpose), tells me she's a ticking time bomb. I have known a few young girls who have been molested, sadly, and their behavior changed drastically. It's possible too that her mother leaving could have been a trigger for her behavior, but to me, she has been clearly trying to cope with some traumatic events in her life. In many ways, I think she was crying out for help, and coming apart at the seems. My gut instinct is that she was trying to escape her past. It could be that someone did come along and pick her up and that was her opportunity to get away. That there was no activity on her credit cards or ATM, seems very suspicious to me. Or it could be that she ditched them on purpose so she couldn't be traced. Obviously, there's no way to know at this point. However, in my opinion, based on her behavior, she seems to be on the run from something very troubling. I just hope and pray she's safe.
Love your channel John. I'm a bit late to finding you, but I have watched hours of your videos and find them unbiased and thoughtful. Bravo. I have a few thoughts about this case. It's one of those intriguing cases that seems to go in several different directions, and with that, several different theories. Everything up to her trip from Amherst to the accident site seems like a case of her wanting to start a new life. School, wrecking her father's car, supposed affairs, thefts, giving back items, all lead me to wanting to start fresh or suicide. When pressures attack from all sides, sometime all you can think about is leaving. Classic fight or flight. I have never heard the report that there was a rag stuck in the tailpipe of her Saturn. If there was, I have some thoughts. As someone who has worked on cars for years, I can tell you that the engine has to breath to operate. Air and fuel in, exhaust out. If a rag was "completely" blocking the tailpipe, the vehicle would have (possibly) started, but very soon stalled. Now take the fact that she ran off the road on a seemingly straight stretch of highway that was "normal" per police reports. If the engine did start when she left the store a mile from the accident, it could have stalled while she was driving. Most vehicles, when the engine dies suddenly, will loose all power accessories, namely the power steering and brakes. This would make the car extremely hard to operate. It's happen to me in the past, and I almost ran off the road myself. This "could" explain why she wrecked BEFORE the hairpin. On review of the Google streetview, the highway where the accident occurred was straight prior to the curve. The vehicle was left facing west in the eastbound lane with damage to the drivers side, so the vehicle could have drifted to left, and made a low speed impact into the tree. Low speed because the damage appears to have happened at a speed of 15-20 (speed limit in that area is 35) --- However, if the rag was loosely hanging or not forced into the tailpipe, the engine would perform, but not well. I would have loved to see if the police took a detailed photo of this aspect, which from what read did not exist. This aspect is troubling because rags do not mysteriously find their way into an exhaust pipe. It's either malicious or a deliberet act to stall the vehicle. Did Maura do this at the store or was it malicious act to harm the engine covering her motive, or was it by a local actor? The particular area that the accident occurred... If Maura was planning her disappearance, the area where she had the accident was perfect. Again, refer to Google street view of the accident site. There is a well very defined, huge red barn at the location, within a 20 second run. Could this have been where she met someone? It has a parking lot on both sides, and could be a good meeting point. There is also a small driveway to the south of the barn that could have concealed a rendezvous vehicle as well. Could this barn been the planned area someone chose? Apparently, she had driven this road before and was intelligent, so she may have thought this was a good landmark. So it's still a mystery. Where did the rag in the tailpipe come from? Did this cause an accident that disabled her vehicle making it her easier prey? Was this a landmark she chose to have a minor wreck? Did she run and start a new life? Just a few rambling thoughts from me, a non expert. Keep up the good work John by giving those who have no voice, a voice.
you may have listen to it already but just in case you haven't, you should listen to Episode 30, Maura Murray podcasts, Witness A. It came out after Part 2 of your coverage. It's quite interesting what this witness has to say.
Good episode John. I have seen this case on a few different shows and a few different websites and videos. A couple were ones you mentioned in the episode. Having heard all this stuff I honestly believe with about 95 percent certainty that she was taken by a passing motorist. Wrong time wrong place kind of thing. Alone on a dark road at night with minimal drives passing by. Someone offered to help and took her and most likely has killed her. All the odd circumstances make the case more fascinating and allow that 5 percent in my brain something else happened . However to me all things point to abduction. The tail pipe thing is weird but sometimes for a disabled vehicle people hang a white shirt or towel out the window to show it's disabled. If you were locked out of the car or something maybe you would put it in the tail pipe since it's the only place it wouldn't blow away beside maybe under the wipers. I do agree she was a bit troubled at the time and has some bad stuff going on but still to disappear with very little money and not contact anyone you know as well as not taking your car or belongings is not an easy thing unless you plan on living homeless which I doubt she did. In summary I feel very bad for her but it's just a bad luck thing and putting yourself in a dangerous situation at the wrong time and a predator took advantage of it. Anyone else who has an opinion would be good to hear thanks.
Im betting she was taking a swig of the bailieys bottle, right before the sharp bend, which caused the accident and left the spider crack at the very top of the inside. Nothing else could really do that....doesnt look like the crash was severe enough for anything from the back to do that kinda damage..
@11:30- You’re wring about the windshield crack. I’ve been a passenger in several crashes and in two of those crashes my head hit and cracked the windshield. I didn’t have a single scratch on my head or face though I did hit one of my knees on the dash and was sore for a few days. I’m 5’10” male and weigh more than Maura- the spider web crack probably WAS from her head.
Not sure about that particular car, but doesn't someone have to be sitting in passenger seat for airbag on that side to deploy? Also, before I seen this video, I watched one with her dad telling the story. He was curious as to why an officer showed up rather quickly, but other officers had only heard about the case a day and a half later. Not sure how much truth is in that but, has anyone suspected or looked into the officer that came to the scene?
Reg Maura Case: Neighbor asked if she was ok&offered her his home while awaiting aaa.Possible she refused,he slammed her head into windshield,took her&killed her. Possible her father was stalking her,upon her crash&leaving car,was kidnapped/killed by father. Which did her dad visit her apt prior to incident...if so he would've seen boxes. If she left on her own,perhaps sought shelter under a porch in a crawl space&became stuck/died.even abandoned cabin chimney could kill if one got stuck. She was already cold/shievering per 1st guy so if she got any colder w no shelter or heat,death wouldn't take long. Was 1st guy&father given lie detector test? Be Free Maura
Another good vid. Without going into a long dissertation I'm down to 2 conclusions. Her past indiscretions were catching up to her n she wanted to end her life as M. Murray n start anew. As to her father's involvement it could be he was helping her to do this or he went off the deep end n did something tragic. I will say that in a properly running car with a good exhaust system, if you plug the tailpipe it results in the card quitting several minutes after you start it. Old trick n yes it can damage the engine.
Dylan wicklund ......there were no footprints except around the vehicle, none heading into the woods. The police dog tracked her scent a short distance away from her car then it stopped, just a few hundred feet.
I was once a passenger wearing no seatbelt when the driver slammed on the breaks because the traffic light changed. My head cracked the windshield without breaking the skin.
I have been following this case for years. there's a great show called disappeared they have a episode on maura. I also heard that there were potential sightings of her with a older man at a gas station in the following days after the accident. Someone also claimed to have seen a man at the accident scene but there's been variations of accounts. I've never heard that someone saw a unknown male traveling with her but I read that someone witnessed a car pulling up to the accident scene right before the police came...I could be wrong.
Good question. She was def heading to VT. The route she was taking all the way from her school And the map quest and the phone calls all lead to her trying to get to VT.
She took her money, cards and cell phone... Seems to me that these are things that a suicidal person would leave behind...NOT take with them, as far as her father being involved... Her dad is STILL actively searching for her to this day(July 2020) I really don't think he did anything wrong, there is some seriously sketchy behavior from the local LE... In MY opinion I think that people need to look at local LE. Oh regarding the "roommate saying she had bulimia" it was reported that she did NOT have a roommate.
This is just me guessing, but I wonder if the fact that she suddenly left West Point is cuz she had been sexually assaulted. A lot of women who went there (especially during the early 00's) were assaulted, it was a big deal). That could add to her depression, along with crap family life, eating disorder, law problems, boyfriend problems,car crashes, and now DUI, I think she just had enough, walked out into the woods with her alcohol, got more drunk and killed herself. Also, after her accident she might've lost her temper and kicked or punched her windshield out of frustration. If she was just trying to run from a DUI, why leave the wine in the car? I'm convinced she killed herself. I feel bad for her tho...
Whitney Angelie She left West Point after being caught stealing makeup. Had she not left she was gonna be expelled because theft is a violation of West Point's honor code.
Todd P Oh, ok. Damn that's harsh tho, getting expelled for stealing makeup?! I know West Point is one of the top military schools in the country but that seems harsh even for them.
@@whitneyangelie3682 i actually think that discipline might have saved her life. It seems like she got away with a lot (no punishment for credit card fraud, getting off on a previous DUI car crash, etc). Really she probably shouldn't even have been driving at all, or at least she should have welcomed the police showing up to her last crash to help her instead of perhaps trying to hide (?), and things might have been different.
My possible theory as to what happened is I think she did have intention of running away. Away from bad people or a bad situation. She was drinking heavily probably because she left in a high anxiety and distressed state, maybe due facing actually running away (which I dont see not causing high stress or anxiety. Running away takes a lot from a person in many aspects). Maybe her father found out about it and caught up with her and maybe had something to do with her disappearance, since he mentioned the rag in tail pipe. Or he knows who was responsible. Since her car was wrecked and she didn't want to be caught running away or drinking and driving she could also of taken the bare minimum out of her car and continued her running away, that is if the father had nothing to do with her disappearance. It is also possible the father put the rag into her tail pipe without her knowing, after he found out she planned on running away, and it caused her car to wreck due to the drinking and possible car failure.
Now look!! If BOTH airbags was deployed it means that the had a passenger. Someone was next to her and was wearing a seat belt for sure. Otherwise airbag is NOT WORKING!!! Again a bus driver - if he said that someone else was there, lets think logically: if you didnt see nobody, you will say "i dont know or i didnt see nobody or there was nobody there" right. But if he saying that someone was there + smoking ( its not just to see someone but someone smoking) means he see someone. Its just when being asked with resposebility by authority its better to jump off saying im not sure.
If she bought anew Toyota bush crashed a Saturn, then the Saturn was the rental car? Or was the rental car the replacent for Fred’s new care she crashed? After reading/ listening to/ watching specials, the earthing... I still have red flags and questions. First I wanted to stay almost everything I’ve seen is quite biased. Every one has had a bias to sell accept yours. We need an HONEST ENTIRE account of the day leading up to the leave day and everyone she came in contact with. I do not trust anyone involved yet. There are so many screwy things just with Maura and her recent behavior, current actions, her uncooperative friends. And I get the feeling that at least one brother and two sisters I watched be interviewed raise more questions and red flags then ever before. They are caging and definitely not being completely honest. To me that’s red flag pinned on each friend and now on the Dad, the siblings interviewed, her boyfriend, and Maura’s own bizarre behavior herself. A sistet’s Relationship doesn’t make you cry like that at work. Something heavier was on her mind.
Please be weary of using James Renner as a reference. I used to really like his coverage until he started teasing information on his blog and using it to sell books. Very horrible for Maura's family. Also, I grew up in Weymouth and the "dump of a house" was probably still a nice one. I just think he's disrespectful and attention hungry 😕
Thanks for the video. The case is full of contradicting information. That's not a huge surprise. People probably saw things that night that didn't seem important at the time. They weren't making careful observations. They were just living their lives and not paying attention to things that didn't seem important. As they reported what they saw, they gave their best information, but they were likely wrong about some details. People looking at the case fixate on one detail or another to try to build a hypothesis, but the details could be wrong. One point about your video is that you showed a barn and suggested that the first people to call the police called from that building. I've also heard that the house where the people were was across the street from that barn. I don't know the right answer. She seems to be a decent enough young lady, but she made a long series of bad decisions. I lean towards the belief that she made further bad decisions that night. People make a big issue of scent dogs tracking her scent about a hundred yards down the road before the scent is lost. People interpret this loss as meaning that she got into a car, but scent dog evidence is weak. Dogs can do some things very well, but building a hypothesis around scent dog behavior is a mistake. People say that no one ever found tracks where she left the road and went into the woods. That no one ever found the tracks does not mean that she didn't go into he woods at some point. A simple explanation is that she tried to escape the scene by going down the road and went into the woods at some point. She may have fallen and been injured in the woods. She may have developed hypothermia. Many places in the area were searched and searched thoroughly, but searchers sometimes miss dead bodies. Scavengers will move or scatter decomposing bodies. Lacking further evidence, I lean towards believing that she died in the woods that night or maybe early the next morning. Someday, they may find some of her bones. Otherwise, I don't see a solution to this one.
UMASS Amherst parties especially at that time were the kind you probably didn't know who else was there. They are often extremely dark... Almost always opened to everyone with door coverage even at the frat houses... My older sister went to UMASS Amherst during this time and the last time I visited, we went to a party held in the main school area that ended in gunshots... Every party was so overcrowded you could barely stay indoors and my cellphone was stolen from within my pockets. Its a very bizarre place because it isn't an easy university to get into, and it is surrounded by farm land and very old school families but at night the whole university turns into another place. A very dark drugged and boozed place...
James Renner's blog when he ran it turned up some great info. He wrote a book on this case as well but just finally said I'm done with it moving onto something new. Also disabled the comments which I did not agree with. Honestly I think he could still be unearthing new info that would solve this and I am aware of Lance's podcast they still run it last time I checked but it has been a minute. Its a great podcast would suggest reading Renners book and old blog on this case as well. Great shout out to them John.
Hi, John. I don't think Tim Carpenter would have been particularly predisposed to any sort of biased thought processes, considering he wasn't married to Maura's mother, Laura, rather he was married to her sister, Kathleen. Just thought that is an important tidbit to clarify because, although Maura's father seems to have a shit reputation and definitely had some seriously questionable behavior, the search for Maura and, ultimately, the truth relies upon facts. Though I'm certain you already know that. Additionally, I really appreciate all the work you do for/to find the truth regarding, those missing and unaccounted for people who aren't here to give an explanation themselves, and whose families undoubtedly do need all the assistance they can get. Keep it up. We RUclipsrs will be watching. x
It all points to her running away... I mean if the fathers a dangerous man, he could of abused her. I mean it doesn't mean he killed her but maybe he was very bipolar and he helped her with the rag in her tailpipe but he got very angry (or he was possibly an alcoholic?) and abused her in someway?
She was drinking and driving and wrecked her car.A man driving a bus stops and asked her if she was ok and she told him that she already called triple AAA and she told him not to call the cops. Why did she tell him not to call the cops? She was drunk and didn't wanna get a DUI. Keep in mind that she had dogged getting a DUI a couple of days prior to her disappearance. Also, keep in mind that she had prior legal problems and probably didn't wanna add to these problems by getting a DUI. I'm assuming thought she was aware that it was just a matter of time before the cops showed up at the scene and to put it bluntly, she needed to get the fuck out of there. She got into a car with someone to flee the scene and avoid a DUI. Her scent wasn't tracked into the woods. Her scent was tracked down the street from the crash site and the scent suddenly dissapeared, which strongly suggest's she got into the car.
This sounds very logical.. She is kind of messed and irresponsible.. Yeah I can see that.. Running away of problems.. Getting in a car.. Probably drunk..
The accounts of her friends the weekend before are definitely very odd in my eyes. I mean, if your friend goes missing wouldn't you give ANY information about what may have happened at the party? Even if you saw her leaving with someone, unless that person has threatened people into not talking about it, 'being too scared' to say anything about what happened seems ultra strange. I mean she has gone missing, you aren't going to be getting her into any more trouble by saying she was cheating on her boyfriend. If that was something Sara Alfieri actually said to police, surely they wouldn't accept that?
Anyway great episode, John! I had never heard of this story before now but is definitely an interesting one! I kind of want to hear more about Kate's dad trying to blow up his neighbour! O_o Possible future BrainScratch? ;)
young woman are strange. I can see sometimes even after someone dies, there inside dramas continue regardless of safety & well being.
+Veggie Gamer I agree with you Veggie, in regards to the whole issue of the friends "too scared" to tell their accounts of the weekend before. That struck me incredibly odd when John said that. I don't know? This whole case is really darn odd. So many questions, but where to start? I think of her dad, but then someone else could've been involved in her disappearance. I'm not feeling the whole suicide possibility. I have no idea why I don't. Just do. Ugh, brain hurts! lol
Chris & Wanda Possibly yeah. I guess it is hard to judge without knowing their full situation. But just doesn't sit right with me.
+Veggie Gamer it kinda makes you think either something threatening has happened or they know she intended to disappear or an absolutely unfounded theory that she was pregnant or something like that. its funny he tried to blow up the neighbor what with? like usually they say tried to kill neighbour but actually blow up
Jo Wallace Yeah it was really the only part of the video which stood out as strange. As for what happened to Maura, there are just so many possibilities, but not giving all the information they could (particularly saying that they were too scared) definitely doesn't make finding out any easier.
I am 5'1" and got into an accident that was a pretty decent head-on vs guardrail, and my head hit the windshield and spidered the glass up towards the top edge - so perhaps it's possible that she as 5'7" could hit the windshield the same...
is it possible she got a concussion and this affected her behavior?
Ya but you were in a booster seat Beth 😁
*5:20*
*"Her father served time in prison for trying to blow up his neighbor "*
Idk why, but that made me choke on my coffe, I was laughing so hard. I know it's not funny, but...it kinda is.
😅😂 😑
AlphaDeltaXray I felt that way too. Normally you'd say "he tried to blow up his neighbour's home" or "he attempted to kill his neighbour". The choice of words is what makes it funny.
Alex Nolfi
Exactly. Well said, I didn't even think about that. It just sounded weird.
The first I've ever heard of this!! That's CRAZY!!
I've listened to the entire podcast. It comes out later that Fred Murray did not offer up to the police that he had told Maura to put the rag in her tail pipe. She had stopped at a store ab out a mile before she crashed and a lot of ppl think someone might have put the rag in the pipe while she was in the store knowing it would cause the car to staul. Could have actually been the reason for the crash in the 1st place. It also comes out that the make-up Maura stole while at West Point happened something like a year before she decided to leave so I don't think that had anything to do with it.
I do not believe she was intending to end her life. I think she just needed a break. Her father and older sister were tough on her, plus the pressures of school, track team, family etc. It's my belief she wanted to get away in the White Mountains which was her favorite place in the world and met with foul play. Someone may have played a part in her crash or took advantage of the situation after it happened.
Ok so you listened to the whole podcast? Can u answer my questions above about what the Wiki article said about some dude giving Frank a rusty knife and implicating that his brother and bro's gf were acting very strange around that time period??? Did the podcast go into that at all?
Also, why aren't the "friends" talking? Were they hushed by police bc its ongoing? What about the cadaver dogs that "went bonkers" in the a-frame house mentioned in the wiki article?
Lol, sorry for the questions, it's just that you've listened to the podcast, so I figured I'd ask you before I attempted to listen to 9,000 hours of podcasts.
I agree with your theory though about not being suicidal, and just wanting to get away, and meeting foul play....
+Shawn Steinberg Great info.. thank you Shawn!
I've wondered it it was pure coincidence that the crash happened at a point where mobiles didn't work... If not then it suggests that it was the work of someone who lived locally.
Shawn Steinberg this makes sense.
AK you need to learn the info you get is all there is , the police ALWAYS have info they WONT release , especially when the person is still missing ,, the closest thing ive heard that makes sense is the A frame theroy ,, the police and forensics found traces of human blood in the upstairs closet,, i think the house was a seasonal cottage type house and it was known the people who own it are not there year round ,, the house is right by the accident scene , so i mean that creepy guy dirtbag112 could be the guy who did it you never know
Her relationship with billy didn't sound stable. Billy cheated on her apparently and then she possibly cheated on him too, not really the sign of a happy couple
+Shinji Ikari Good point!
She was a mess. Billy would've been a fool to fully bring her into his life.
Angeline D that's not entirely fair to say. She certainly made mistakes as we all have. She's not here to tell her side. There's always more to a story. And possible mental health issues. Depression etc..
Your wording is rude.
Wow! Yessss John, THIS is the type of Brain Scratch story that I enjoy...the kind that allows us viewers to be the "armchair detectives", loved this episode!! Oh and hey, if u ever start that podcast and need a co-host, Holla at cha girllll! I'd love to scratch brains with you (haha, wait that sounds weird!)
Anyways! Here's my theory: I feel like she got outta the car and maybe a car that passed by offered to give her a ride? My intuition struck REAL hard when I read in the wiki article about the dude that gave the dad a rusty knife saying his brother and brothers gf were acting real shady around the same time. Being a woman, if I was in Maura's shoes, and a younger couple approached and said "hey we can give u a ride to call your dad" or something, or they said "bring that bottle of Kahlua and vodka, we got milk, just stay and party with us tonight, and tomorrow we'll bring u back to the car", if they seemed nice enough (and I was still my young, dumb self), I might consider it...
+GeekenDorx did that theory ever get checked into that you know of (the brother and his gf?) like did the podcast mention it?
I'm still up in the air about her being suicidal. I feel like she wanted to leave the school. Like maybe she DID get into trouble? The first thing I thought when reviewing the wiki site was that she had developed a pill addiction, or some kinda drug/alcohol addiction. Clearly she was using alcohol to get her Thru a rough time, and she couldn't go without long enough to drive to her destination, which I'm assuming would be around 3 hours??? I understand she was 21, but if she didn't learn her lesson from nearly getting caught the week before, then either she had a problem, or just didn't give a F.
I want to know why those 2 destinations were her choice. One might've been a vaca spot, but the other wasn't. Maybe a dude she was cheating with lived in that area??? Maybe she got involved with her sisters fiancé and he caught feelings and she felt bad??
+Allison Keirsey Thanks Allison, and I will certainly keep you in mind for a podcast. I really like your analytical insights, and your posts are always enjoyable to read. :-)
Take care and have a great holiday season!
+Allison Keirsey I haven't heard it on the podcast yet, but I'm not through all the episodes. You raise a good point about her addiction/mindset, and I think her family is also wondering what/who she was traveling to. I'm not sure that the amount of money she had would last more than a few days if you're also paying for a hotel.
+GeekenDorx thanks Johnny, you too! :)
I thought the opposite - that Maura somehow found out that her boyfriend had slept with her sister. Given that she was supposedly two-timing her boyfriend it would seem a bit hypocritical to get so upset about him doing the same - but if it was with her own sister it would be much more understandable. The pattern of lots of short calls and not wanting to talk seems pretty typical of people going through a fraught time, and not at all consistent with people just discussing plans for Valentine's Day.
It seems to me that she was picked up and killed by a psychopath. That or she managed to get away and start over under a new identity, which is quite a stretch. These are the only two ways to explain no body being found. If she killed herself, the body would've been found, period. If she was murdered and buried deep in the ground in some remote area...well...
Its most likely the wrong person picked her up, becuase starting a new life is a stretch, especially for someone in her situation...she would have gotten desperate quickly to get in anyones car...I know Id be scared as fuck.
Thank you. So many creepy people surrounding her. The girls in the dorm, the red truck people, the cadet, the abusive bf, and those NH backwoods dirt bags, plus others. It just spins and spins itself more suspects. God bless.
I think that a forensic examination of her computer would be so helpful. I would like to see what she was doing,searching and who she was communicating with prior to her disappearance.
Charisse, that has all been done by professionals.
John new info has surfaced concerning sexual assaults conducted on West Point around the time Maura was a student. I'm beginning to think her rash actions may have actions caused by anxiety due to a traumatic event; that someone she knew and was close to was a victim of one of those assaults.............
Miranda Goldstine
Miranda you make an excellent point. As soon as West Point was brought up red flags went up. TY
Your an idiot if your being serious
My first thought too when West Point was mentioned.
Well done, John. I am always impressed by your search for the truth.
I remember in the Disappeared episode they mentioned that her boyfriend had a voicemail message from Maura that night, and all it consisted of was something like "faint breathing". Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, I heard that too.
Yes, and he erased the message.
ugh that really creeps me out.. Iii'm freaked out by this case.
What tangled webs we weave.
' 0
what are you referring to? strange comment
Why is the state of her fathers house of importance in James Renner's blog ?
Because Fred's house was being foreclosed on & yet Fred came up with $4000 cash which he placed in an account for Maura. For a father who is down on his luck to give that amount of money to his daughter, it must have been for a very important reason. She must have been in an urgent situation.
IAN PAYNE cuz he uses any opportunity to make Fred look like a douche.
How about that sick man who filmed himself laughing manically and titled his youtube video the last known coordinates of Maura. I believe that he was ruled out but still it was creepy as hell.
The local dirtbag video is from the Maura Murray case.
No it was maura there's videos about it
Not against the law to be a nut job....look at Donald Trump. 😂
Frank Velazquez what does that got to do with anything
Danielle Happen covered that video on her channel. I think it was about another missing girl
So much deceit and coverup that go on at military schools across the US...
I believe her boyfriend knows exactly what happened to Maura.
John its unsettling to have the grim reaper sitting behind you as you discuss a missing person case...
If the rag in the exhaust pipe suggestion had nefarious intent on Fred's part, I doubt that he would admit to the police that he gave that advice to his daughter.
Sounds like someone hurt her at West Point - and silenced her with the 'make up theft' (not saying she didn't do it, just speculating that it would be a good scare tactic to shut up a kid 🤷🏽♀️). Strange and sad story. I hope they find her one day - or at least find out what happened 💐
I saw this story on Disappeared. Fred gave me very weird feelings from the moment he showed up in the story. I couldn't help but wonder if he is not the loving caring father he wants the world to believe...her behavior could be a sign of someone who was abused as a child. I wonder if we will ever know what happened to her?
His presence is weaved all in and around this. It would explain why her friends are afraid to talk. If he went shopping with her for alcohol for the party, it's not much of a stretch to think he would help her cover up a DUI and/or accident. The only thing that prevents me from thinking he picked her up at the accident site, is how fast she disappeared. Could HE be the possible male in the passenger seat? Another thing itching at me was this: Around midnight, Monday, February 9, shortly after speaking with her father, Maura used her personal computer to search MapQuest for directions to The Berkshires and Burlington, Vermont." It's almost as if his call instigated the preparations for her departure.
Maybe you abuse children
No...I only seen his interview as that of a sad that truly loved his daughter
That one investigator blogger got an internet message at his blog that she just wanted to move on... Seems like, if that was his webpage, he could ping that message and find out the IP it came from!
will Nill : Hey Will, since you have nothing to add but negative childish comments why don't you try being kind? I've seen other pathetic comments you posted and they are very telling. Look for attention elsewhere. This is a very serious subject. I don't understand why you have to be mean/negative to people who are just trying to help figure this mystery out. Be nice to people. It's so much easier to be kind....? Thanks
After watching these two episodes i had a listen to most of the podcasts. I think the most simple explanation was she was getting away from her troubles for a week, had a few drinks in her car and had a prang. Worried about being caught for DUI she took a few drinks and decided to find a place to lay low for the night. There was a very sad case this year locally to me of an American woman that went missing and a huge search with dogs helicopters never found her. 3 months later she was found by a local ground team, not far off a path that had been searched but under thick trees. My point is this was in a rural area with many footpaths used by hikers and dog walkers in the sumer months. Maura sadly was in New hampshire in winter where the wilderness is vast and even stumbling a couple of miles into the forest, then finding a secluded spot to get away from the elements would make it very hard to be found. I think her mindset of wanting to be alone and wanting to drink would make it unlikely she would get into another persons car willingly. If you are depressed and drinking all you want to be is alone. There is however many conflicts and other things that happened maybe coincidentally or not.
+simon jones Really good point about the state of mind when intoxicated, and she clearly wanted to either be alone.. or flee to someone else (I'm really not sure which). Great insight and thought put into your post.. thank you Simon!
Based on everything I have heard about this story, I personally get the feeling she's alive out there somewhere and wanted to get away.
shed have been found by now tho...you cant do much in life without using your name and ID
my opinion, she was in a desperate situation, whether she realized that or not...i mean youre walking around a road you dont know, its dark and prolly cold, the police are on the way...she would have taken a ride with just about anyone who pulled up. So its impossible to say who that was, but some creep prolly took her. Anytime a 21 year old hot girl vanishes, its always kidnapping, then rape, then murder. Unfortunately, its impossible to say who she went with as it could have been anyone that passed.
it's pretty obvious to me as a young girl in my twenties that has had horrible setbacks in my life where tiny bad choices seem to end in disaster, and where you are in this place where deviant bad behaviors make you feel better, that she intended to go on a trip to get away from everyone and think about her life, and drink on the way there. when she crashed she must've been worried that she'd get stopped if she kept driving because of the damage to her car, and get caught drunk driving and faking an emergency to leave school, ect. which is the same reason that she abandoned her car. she probably realized that the police were gonna show up, and now people have a description of her car and whatnot. it sounds crazy, but she was probably pretty drunk and she thought the better thing to do was to abandon her car and maybe try to walk far enough to get cell reception so someone could come get her if the cops towed her car, or if they didnt to just hide out for a bit in the woods until she sobered up enough to come back, either way making up a story about what happened, why she left, ect. she needed time to think about what she was gonna do, and she had to get away before the cops got there. she wasn't thinking clearly, obviously. she abandoned her car on purpose, she was just scared of getting caught again, and in her mind anything was better than that. ive been there, it's a super dangerous mindset. she abandoned her car and started walking or hiking through the woods to hide or de-stress and think of a plan/sober up or walked to get reception to call one of her friends to come get her... either way, her intention was to avoid trouble with the police, ect. what's even more likely to me is a situation where she grabbed the bailey's and her cards (she didn't wanna leave them to get stolen and if she had to get picked up she'd need them) and she went on a little drunk hike on purpose because she just didn't wanna deal with everything right then, intending to go back when she had calmed down a bit, thought up her story and was ready to deal with all of that. she probably thought she'd be fine because she hiked all the time, and running away for awhile and not letting anyone know where you are or if you're okay is another form of this kind of self gratifying deviant behavior that even I used to do when in trouble because of my own bad choices. but something bad happened to her. she got lost or hurt out there and froze, or some horrible man offered her a ride and, out of desperation and lack of clear thinking, she took it. you wouldn't believe how many men stop and try to pick you up when you're walking alone, even in the city, even during the damn day. let alone in the country, at night, in the cold/snow. that gives them an even better excuse to stop and talk to you. it's nonstop, literally. I feel sorry for her. she wasn't a bad girl, she just felt like these small deviant behavior related mistakes (doing stupid stuff like stealing makeup, of all things, drinking while driving, using a credit card number that wasn't hers because she randomly found it in the trash, ect) had already ruined her life and wouldn't go away. no matter how good she was, and regardless of the good things she did, like get straight a's for such a long time, ect, those dumb things, in her mind, had just become so insurmountable and we're getting worse, and it's like, I don't even care anymore. I'm gonna do what I want, ect. she probably started the smaller deviant behaviors like stealing makeup due to the fact that her family turmoil and suffering made her feel different from others inside, she couldn't relate to their normalcy and happiness, so you start acting different, then people start treating you differently, then you end up getting in with a bad crowd that you relate to more strongly that encourages these behaviors, its just an endless cycle. she just made a bad decision that I easily could've made a couple years ago and it cost her her life. she reminds me of my old self so much I can't stand it. rip maura. seriously, rest in peace.
Scarlett Says I totally agree. People act like the destructive behaviors/mistakes she were making meant she was running away to start a new life etc. If I went missing at her age and they looked into my life. I would of gotten the same treatment. Your 20s are a crazy time for some people. I just think she was going through a rough patch and she was too immature to handle it. I think she ran away from the scene and didn't realize how dangerous that was because she was drunk. RIP Maura.
Really enjoy your videos and how clear you are with your sources and information, especially in a case with as much noise and speculation as this one. Would also love to see you make a video about Brianna Maitland, which remains a big mystery to this day.
I was recently in a car accident where the airbag broke my hand, so I could see it cracking a windshield, though I can't figure out the angle.
+bhbrewster Hope you are ok (with the exception of your hand)! Many years ago I had an accident where the airbag deployed. Really bruised my face, but it did its job.
Ouch! I'm glad you weren't hurt too badly! They had some serious power, but I'm glad they were there! I'm alright, thanks. Just bruised, but grateful I was the only one involved.
Maybe she wasn’t wearing a seatbelt and got thrown up that high.
Man if that was just someone trolling that's sad that someone needs to get attention in that manner... if it really was her tracking the IP could potentially close this case. but if she was using a public WiFi or if the troll was doing so then it may not turn up anything at all.....
If she was planning to kill herself, why would she have cared to leave enough money in her account to keep it from being closed? That's always bugged me.
I agree and why would she call her instructors with the made up story of a death in the family? If she was planning suicide, she wouldn't need to find a way to be excused for the week. She wouldn't have brought her study books and syllabus along. I wonder if a predator stuffed a rag in her exhaust pipe and then followed her waiting for the vehicle to stall. Maybe the cause of the accident was related to asphyxiation and perhaps drinking too. My gut tell me that that rag is the source of the mystery.
@M Detlef I've had the bank close my account for not keeping enough funds. That's all I can tell you.
One thing for sure. She was an undercover alcoholic. Two one-person accidents in a short period of time. Plus the bus load of alcohol she purchased. One thing I don't agree with is the dad having a thing to do with it. He would have had to known the location of the crash and made it there before police. Side note: John I was really hoping to hear more about your opinion of what happened and the sighting of her at a near by gas station.
My thoughts are that she ran from the scene to avoid a DUI, ran down the road a bit, perhaps off on a side road, and into the woods to wait out the cops and sober up a bit. Unfortunately she succumbed to the elements. She had good reasons for avoiding the cops, she was on probation from the credit card incident and would likely see jail time if arrested again. Not only that to be a nurse, you need a clean criminal record. Not to mention how angry her father would be with a second accident and charges. She thought fleeing was her best option at the time. Wonder if the rag was soaked in wine and she tried to hide it in the tailpipe?
Good points, but they searched the area extensively. I don't think she's in that forest.
This isn't a case I've done much extensive research on so I hesitate to even offer a theory, but one idea I've started to kick around as it relates to analyzing cases is to look at the case as a whole and then form an initial theory or theories, prior to delving deep into all the intricate details that make up the case. Essentially take a glance at the case, and form a theory of what could have transpired before I start going down the rabbit hole. Often times I feel once I go down the rabbit hole of details, and information, I tend to start getting focused on small details and lose sight of the initial feel I had for the case.
With all that said, here are the general thoughts I have about Maura's disappearance. First off I am of the belief that Maura was a very troubled young woman. How that pertains to what actually happened to her I'm not sure but I do believe it's worth noting that Maura was clearly struggling emotionally prior to her disappearance.
The first solid conclusion I came to was that Maura had to have left the area where she was last seen in another vehicle. I see little to chance that she could have left the area on foot. She had none of the resources that would be required to hike out of an area like that.
So if we are fairly certain it wouldn't have been possible for her to get out of the area on foot without any of the proper resources,it leaves us with the high probability Maura left in a vehicle. Obviously she didn't leave in her vehicle so she must have left in some unknown persons vehicle. Now whether she left in this vehicle willingly or against her will is uncertain. I could easily see Maura flag down a passing motorist and ask for a ride. I could also easily see a passing motorist noticing a young woman walking on the side of this rural road and stopping to pick her up, either forcefully or of her own volition. But either way, I believe she left in an vehicle. Unfortunately when you draw the conclusion that she likely left in an unknown vehicle, the area in which she could be expands exponentially.
Regarding the theory that her father could be involved in her disappearance..I fail to see how he could have known where she was at the time of her disappearance. Unless he was following her or had some type of tracking device on her car I don't see it being possible. She may have called him after hitting the tree, asked him to come out there and pretend he had been the one driving at the time of the accident as to avoid DUI charges against her. Maybe he did come out there, picked her up, and a fight ensued between them. She had crashed two cars in a short period of time and both accidents apparently occurred after she had been drinking. It's possible he was angry about this, they got into a dispute that escalated into a physical fight and Maura wound up dying as a result.
I have to assume the police thoroughly checked out the bus driver neighbor to make sure he wasn't involved in her disappearance. With all that said I am currently leaning towards Maura being picked up by a passing motorist who she initially went with willingly but later turned out not to let her go.
Would love to hear more on Missy Beavers, your show is awsome!!!
they really should track that troll down because yeah thats kinda messed up like why someone would be doing this could it also be a serial killer taunting people from what I do know is that New Hampshire is full of Woods like you wouldn't want to be caught in the woods because of other animals but when your drinking your not really thinking so yeah im also thinking she could be with her boy friend in OK but like wouldn't the BF tell the family I don't know
Amanda Florez I think Renner has been established as a troll. At least my the Murray family.
I think she's alive. She looks very much like the bank fraud suspect (TD North?, 2006) in NH. Heavier, different hairstyle, but very similar. It's certainly a notch above her previous crimes, but I think it's very possible. I think when James Renner called her a sociopath (he later changed his mind about that), he was actually on the right path.
I've seen you say you question authors who are trying to sell books. this renner guy is one of those people.
I still have not heard a plausible explanation for why Maura was driving with $40 of liquor and SIX boxes of sleeping pills if her intention was not suicide.
Is there any mention of anyone having any kind of life insurance policy they were paying on her?
Good One!!!!!
I first thot suicide, then drunk and in the elements. But after watching documentaries and listening to the Missing Maura Murray podcasts, especially #34? Or the one with the new vlogger who lives at UMASS and has some great points about her car and living at UMASS, i now think it was the bus driver. He was the last to see and speak to her. He may have invited her to gather her things and come up to his house, then she was fatally injured or she was murdered. Cadaver dogs alerted at his house.
You do an extremely good job of presenting these cases and staying level-headed with the information. If you ever need any more factual information about the Maura Murray case, I would be glad to assist or provide information. I am a former journalist (sports reporter albeit) but I took a special interest in this case around 2010 and have actually researched and interviewed folks involved in this case and have contributed to both James Renner's blog and the Podcast of Tim and Lance. I do think Maura took her own life, but I have explored just about every theory there is about this case and have some good info.
I have myself gone off that same corner when I was in high school and there is quite a ditch there before the trees. I had to actually have someone pull my car back into the road with a pickup truck. Although there is a lot of talk about her hitting trees is it possible that she hit the ditch causing damage to her car? I guess I'm thinking perhaps she hit the ditch and sort of mini nose dived which may also explain how something could be thrown about in the car to cause the spider damage to her window that I've heard were too high on the window to be impact by her head (because she was short) and no one noted she might have been injured in anything I've read.
I think she's in the forest. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this but someone with alcohol in their system is more susceptible to hypothermia. The bus driver saw her shivering. She was cold, but I think she decided to head to the gas station. Her credit card and bank card were never used, so it seems they are still with her. I think she took some alcohol either to dump it or drink it to warm up. I think the trail ends because she crossed the street. The gas station I believe was on the opposite side. I think she then went in the woods, maybe thinking it was a short cut or the trees would block the wind and it would be warmer, and froze. She left a lot in the car so it would seem she meant to come back.
Been binging this case again and you said both airbags had deployed. I don't know if cars back then worked the same, but cars now, are only supposed to have the airbags that have people in the seats, go off. Could this be an overlooked sign that she did have a passenger? Or, did this model of car just go airbag crazy on impact? Thanks John!
What if a taller person was driving her car...just a thought, but maybe there was no blood on the windshield wonder if they tested the windshield for that?
I live in NH .... and I actually never heard of this case. I will surely be listening to the podcasts and keeping an open eye. I also have another brainscratch topic you might be interested in. It would probably be better as a miniscratch episode, but it's a eerie mystery from NH that has gone unsloved since the 80's .... here are 2 links to check out ... I would also like to point out I am very familiar with Allenstown NH / Bear Brook State Park where this mystery happened. I camped there as a kid, and then dated someone on that road in highschool. I also did an entire article about hauntings in that area when I was apart of a paranormal website. I actually had no idea about this case when I wrote that. I only recently discovered it, but it's truly sad, and maybe if you decide to do a show on it, it might help shed new light on it. These poor victims have never had anyone come forward looking for them, nor has their ever been anyone connected with their murder. Hopefully someone out there will be able to help with the Bear Brook case, or Maura Murray. NH is an easy place to go when you want to hide .... especially far up north near the Canadian boarder. We have a lot of land up here that is massively undeveloped .... so disappearing in this neck of the woods is easy. If she is still alive I hope one day she comes forward so her loved ones can find resolution. Here are the links ........... Huge fan of your series keep up the great work!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Brook_murders
www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/11/09/thirty-years-later-murders-woman-girls-continues-baffle/I7n4d1NKACqfFhnIwAnVVP/story.html
www.cnn.com/2013/06/14/us/new-hampshire-bodies-mystery/
+MaidenOfDarkness I will check it out! Thanks letting me know about it (and the links)!
Your very welcome :) .... I love your video's, and I think what you do is wonderful. It shows the family and friends of missing persons / unsolved murders that there are people out there that care, and that their loved one hasn't been forgotten. I think what makes missing person cases all the more troubling isn't just that it's a mystery, but that they have been forgotten about ..... as long as there are people like you out there it shows their loved ones that they shouldn't loose hope. Keep up the great work! Hopefully we can all help a few of these cases get new light shed on them!
Were there other footprints aside from hers in the snow?
I've heard and read a good deal about this case. I honestly don't know what happened to this girl that night. Some things prior to that night do stand out to me, though. This girl had red flags flying all over the place! Let's start with the perfectionistic tendencies she showed from an early age. Perfect grades. Bulimia. And, by the way, not all bulimics purge via laxatives or vomiting...some excessively exercise. Let's see, perfectionism and an eating disorder...shall we talk about the frequent correlation between those two things and sexual abuse? There were other things, though. Criminal/delinquent behavior. Theft while at West Point IS a violation of the code of conduct and can get you tossed in short order (incidentally, not only was daddy "very" involved with her sports, but also "pushed" her to go to West Point...interesting that her younger sister actually graduated from there). She committed credit card fraud. I know somebody who did prison time for that (though this girl managed to run up some SERIOUS debt) and it was even her parent's card...but I digress. I don't know if she'd completed the terms of her plea deal. If not, a DUI would definitely not fall into the category of "good behavior", though. Two drunk driving incidents within a week? First of all, daddy helping her acquire booze for a dorm party then handing her the keys to his new car? Over permissive parenting can also be a sign of abuse! This girl was spiraling out of control...and fast! She had a wholly inappropriate long term relationship with her track coach...whether she was of legal age or not! IMHO he should face disciplinary action for that. Did something happen at the party the previous weekend that set her off? Was it the conversation with her sister, Kathleen? Incidentally, it was Kathleen's ex-husband that said Fred was a dangerous person, not her mother's. They spoke about her sister's husband's infidelity. I saw somebody suggest that Maura might have been involved in a relationship with him as well. Not to besmirch his character, but it would kinda fit her profile...healthy boundaries did not seem to be this girl's strong suit (yet another sign of abuse...). My gut reaction is that this girl had intentions of leaving her life behind one way or another. She was making plans to return to a place where she'd spent happier days. She packed up her entire room. She had excessive amounts of alcohol with her. And she had her "favorite stuffed animal" in the car with her that her long time boyfriend (after leaving him a printed email reminding him of the time he cheated on her) had given her...INSIDE the car with her. If indeed the dogs didn't track her into the woods and tracked her only a few yards down 112, then I think it's safe to assume she got into a vehicle. Some people have stated that the police mishandled this investigation. Something has been bothering me about this, so I'm just gonna put it out there. The time between the neighbor calling and the police arriving was 20 minutes. She was standing outside her car having conversations with a couple passersby. Then she retrieves some things from her car, locks it and starts down the road. This all took time. Could it have taken 20 minutes? Could it have been a police car she got into? I know nothing about the officer involved so this is mere speculation. I've just always thought the time frame was a little tight...and she HAD been drinking. I sincerely hope that a good soul happened by...be it law enforcement or somebody else. Somebody whom she told her story to. Somebody who decided to help her start over. Somebody safe. But I honestly don't know what happened to this girl.
It all adds up to suicide IMHO.
Ironically, I think you're warmer than many on here who _know_ more or less what happened, who in all their self-assured sagacity have never solved a case in their lives.
All signs point to Maura being a lifelong overachiever and “encouraged” by her over-involved father. He can’t stop talking about her ‘perfection’. That’s a lot of pressure for a young woman. I had a college roommate who had an impossible & heavy class load; she needed to do well to please her family. At semester break she “ran away” with a guy friend - to a small quiet town. She never came back but her family finally located her - she was happy with her “new” life and relieved of her former Stress level.
I watched a your episodes and I watched the Disappeared episode on Discovery. There are more questions than answers
Maura fled to Canada, changed her name, and is a dancer at a strip club.
A strange thought struck me when John mentioned hiking in the White Mountains. I've been to the top of Mt. Washington and up there, there s a plaque that shows the names and ages of all the hikers who have fallen to their deaths. It is updated quite often. You don't suppose Maura made it there and had an accident? I mean is it possible to have a hiking accident and NOT be found? Just a thought....
Excellent stuff. Really interesting. On another note, have you heard about the mysterious hiking deaths of tourists Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon in 2014. If you think this is interesting enough, I would love to see a BrainScratch on this.
Not sure on this model, but most cars won't deploy the passenger airbag unless there is weight in the seat... Two people maybe?
Hello, can you do a brain scratch on crisis actors? I enjoy how you analyze and explain different controversial subjects.
+Rob Wesner I second that. It would be especially interesting to hear John's opinion because he has experience in the entertainment industry.
third
+Rob Wesner Great suggestion!!
+Rob Wesner Fourth!!
+Danniele Tyler Fifth!
I think she freaked out after the accident knowing that she’d be in trouble especially since she had a history of driving drunk! So she took off & ended up getting lost in the woods!
These guys, running the missing Maura channel, are still doing videos to this day. Their last video is 5 days. Incredible. I've gotten hooked on their channel. 'Lot of interesting stuff. 'Lot of interviews with the right people.
I believe that she walked into the woods and kept on walking.
I think someone picked her up at the accident scene... So my questions would be: Who picked her up? Did they kill her, or did they help her run? I do believe she wanted to leave and start over.
+throb9, When you mean by "starting over", do you mean start over with a new identity, "New life"? or start over meaning clear her head, take time off and put her life into perspective. I think that's what she was trying to do (option 2) and unfortunately is a victim of foul play at the scene of the accident.
Source? steve b
I'm sorry but crashing cars? Stealing? Having affairs? She sounds like a trainwreck.
She was a MESS.
you may want to look into the Disappearance of Brianna Maitlandas it is somewhat similar to the case of Maura even happened in a nearby Vermont town maybe some connection?
I drove a Tow Truck in Boston for many years specializing in Police MVAs. The crack in the windshield is a stress crack from the DS Airbag. The vehicle damage is slight due to hitting a snowbank before the tree. The rag will, not might, will make exhaust gases seep into the passenger compartment, unless there are holes in the exhaust. It will cause the catalyst to overheat and burn through the floor of the vehicle. It being wet and snowy probably saved her from a fiery death on the interstate.
Ayee Jon just wanna say I really enjoyed this BrainScratch!. Can't wait to see ya do more on it! And I found this video of the drive Maura last took I thought maybe you'd wanna see it if ya haven't!
where is it
has anyone heard about the cabin in the woods being her possible destination??
BrainScratch: natalee holloway
Wow! Okay, so after watching this on Friday, I pretty much dove in. I am listening to the podcast now, with just a couple of episodes left. How in the world did you get these facts into such a concise package for this video?! Such a fascinating case.
Thanks, as always, for all of your work on these! I look forward to the next one.
From all theories I've read about her case, I feel the most plausible scenario is that she walked and hid herself or asked for help in one of those houses down the road. After that, maybe some neighbor took advantage of Maura... there is one guy who was a temporary builder, right? Perhaps her body is hidden in one of his construction sites and police can't verify without a search warrant.
Hey John, I don't know if you believe psychics, tarot and stuff, but for these mysterious cases without tracks, any info could be helpful, right? I've found a great tarot reading for Maura, which is similar to my theory above. What do you think? solarspectrumtarot.blogspot.com/2013/02/maura-murray.html
+Opera Mauve A very interesting read, and your theory about her being on private property is certainly plausible. We know in the Brandon Lawson case that private property has provided to be an obstacle to conducting complete searches.
It's more likely someone made her disappear. Her life was so messed up that it's unlikely she could put together a disappearance and not screw that up. I'd bet that her remains will be found within 12 miles of the accident.
I hit a tree head on in 2011 and my head did the same thing to the shield BUT I did not have my seat belt on and the cracked webbing where my head hit was much lower and I am 6’0 to a tee - Plus, my car was wrapped around the tree, completely totaled..
So, I doubt that was her head
was the sister's fiance ever checked out?
Happy to see another brainscratch. I am truly amazed at how often things like this happen, it's scary. From what I got from part 1 of this, it's easy to see why some people could think that she wanted to either kill herself or maybe start fresh somewhere else, however, as many of these cases go, there are weird circumstances; like the dorm being all packed, why would one take out most of their money only to kill herself? Why are so many afraid to say what happened at that party? Great job, love these brainscratchs. On another matter, is the trial for Elisa Lam done, am I wrong in thinking they were in November.
+Joanne Sabourin It was this week and I was there. Update on it coming this Friday!
This story has all the plot twists of a Quentin Tarantino movie. What if she was actually planning to commit suicide, then got in an accident and was picked up and murdered by a serial killer?
you really gotta hear everything in this case and not be trapped in a rabbit hole n remember it's all about getting justice for this beautiful woman,M.M who just wanted to fix her life n not be controlled by father's n boyfriends nor shady ppl who just use you for what you got n don't truly love or care for her heart n soul..im her age i remember life in 2004 like it was yesterday n times n so many thing's hv changed or come about since 04 it's mind blowing..n yes my final opinion n 2 cents not csuse of her father or fam. but KATE MARCOPOLIS keeps inside key n valuable info that she will nvr share n she's shady as hell weather poor maurry is dead or alive..i pray for family n all my deepest caring wishes to you all...**God Bless them #!**
Down the Rabbit whole I go thanks John!
+Christopher Bergsma Thank you for watching!
I wouldn't be surprised if she took off. I graduated in '04' and I knew a number of people who went to the Umass Nursing program the year before and my year and I heard it was one of the hardest programs at Umass. That could also be rumor, but I remember distinctly hearing it was a VERY hard course to actually get through and people dropped it all the time because of this.
What do the forensics show; are there footsteps leading away from the car? if so how many? were dogs brought in to search?
Really enjoyed this BrainScratch. I haven't heard any of the podcasts, but something that kept coming to mind, even before the mention of her dad being a bad guy, is that maybe she was molested by her father or another family member. I realize this is purely speculation on my part. Her behavior, from possibly stealing makeup and credit card numbers, to potentially alcoholism and bulimia, to the night she crashed her dad's car (possibly on purpose), tells me she's a ticking time bomb. I have known a few young girls who have been molested, sadly, and their behavior changed drastically.
It's possible too that her mother leaving could have been a trigger for her behavior, but to me, she has been clearly trying to cope with some traumatic events in her life. In many ways, I think she was crying out for help, and coming apart at the seems.
My gut instinct is that she was trying to escape her past. It could be that someone did come along and pick her up and that was her opportunity to get away. That there was no activity on her credit cards or ATM, seems very suspicious to me. Or it could be that she ditched them on purpose so she couldn't be traced.
Obviously, there's no way to know at this point. However, in my opinion, based on her behavior, she seems to be on the run from something very troubling. I just hope and pray she's safe.
Love your channel John. I'm a bit late to finding you, but I have watched hours of your videos and find them unbiased and thoughtful. Bravo.
I have a few thoughts about this case. It's one of those intriguing cases that seems to go in several different directions, and with that, several different theories.
Everything up to her trip from Amherst to the accident site seems like a case of her wanting to start a new life. School, wrecking her father's car, supposed affairs, thefts, giving back items, all lead me to wanting to start fresh or suicide. When pressures attack from all sides, sometime all you can think about is leaving. Classic fight or flight.
I have never heard the report that there was a rag stuck in the tailpipe of her Saturn. If there was, I have some thoughts. As someone who has worked on cars for years, I can tell you that the engine has to breath to operate. Air and fuel in, exhaust out. If a rag was "completely" blocking the tailpipe, the vehicle would have (possibly) started, but very soon stalled. Now take the fact that she ran off the road on a seemingly straight stretch of highway that was "normal" per police reports. If the engine did start when she left the store a mile from the accident, it could have stalled while she was driving. Most vehicles, when the engine dies suddenly, will loose all power accessories, namely the power steering and brakes. This would make the car extremely hard to operate. It's happen to me in the past, and I almost ran off the road myself. This "could" explain why she wrecked BEFORE the hairpin. On review of the Google streetview, the highway where the accident occurred was straight prior to the curve. The vehicle was left facing west in the eastbound lane with damage to the drivers side, so the vehicle could have drifted to left, and made a low speed impact into the tree. Low speed because the damage appears to have happened at a speed of 15-20 (speed limit in that area is 35) --- However, if the rag was loosely hanging or not forced into the tailpipe, the engine would perform, but not well. I would have loved to see if the police took a detailed photo of this aspect, which from what read did not exist. This aspect is troubling because rags do not mysteriously find their way into an exhaust pipe. It's either malicious or a deliberet act to stall the vehicle. Did Maura do this at the store or was it malicious act to harm the engine covering her motive, or was it by a local actor?
The particular area that the accident occurred... If Maura was planning her disappearance, the area where she had the accident was perfect. Again, refer to Google street view of the accident site. There is a well very defined, huge red barn at the location, within a 20 second run. Could this have been where she met someone? It has a parking lot on both sides, and could be a good meeting point. There is also a small driveway to the south of the barn that could have concealed a rendezvous vehicle as well. Could this barn been the planned area someone chose? Apparently, she had driven this road before and was intelligent, so she may have thought this was a good landmark.
So it's still a mystery. Where did the rag in the tailpipe come from? Did this cause an accident that disabled her vehicle making it her easier prey? Was this a landmark she chose to have a minor wreck? Did she run and start a new life?
Just a few rambling thoughts from me, a non expert. Keep up the good work John by giving those who have no voice, a voice.
you may have listen to it already but just in case you haven't, you should listen to Episode 30, Maura Murray podcasts, Witness A. It came out after Part 2 of your coverage. It's quite interesting what this witness has to say.
Good episode John. I have seen this case on a few different shows and a few different websites and videos. A couple were ones you mentioned in the episode. Having heard all this stuff I honestly believe with about 95 percent certainty that she was taken by a passing motorist. Wrong time wrong place kind of thing. Alone on a dark road at night with minimal drives passing by. Someone offered to help and took her and most likely has killed her. All the odd circumstances make the case more fascinating and allow that 5 percent in my brain something else happened . However to me all things point to abduction. The tail pipe thing is weird but sometimes for a disabled vehicle people hang a white shirt or towel out the window to show it's disabled. If you were locked out of the car or something maybe you would put it in the tail pipe since it's the only place it wouldn't blow away beside maybe under the wipers. I do agree she was a bit troubled at the time and has some bad stuff going on but still to disappear with very little money and not contact anyone you know as well as not taking your car or belongings is not an easy thing unless you plan on living homeless which I doubt she did. In summary I feel very bad for her but it's just a bad luck thing and putting yourself in a dangerous situation at the wrong time and a predator took advantage of it. Anyone else who has an opinion would be good to hear thanks.
Im betting she was taking a swig of the bailieys bottle, right before the sharp bend, which caused the accident and left the spider crack at the very top of the inside. Nothing else could really do that....doesnt look like the crash was severe enough for anything from the back to do that kinda damage..
@11:30- You’re wring about the windshield crack. I’ve been a passenger in several crashes and in two of those crashes my head hit and cracked the windshield. I didn’t have a single scratch on my head or face though I did hit one of my knees on the dash and was sore for a few days. I’m 5’10” male and weigh more than Maura- the spider web crack probably WAS from her head.
Not sure about that particular car, but doesn't someone have to be sitting in passenger seat for airbag on that side to deploy? Also, before I seen this video, I watched one with her dad telling the story. He was curious as to why an officer showed up rather quickly, but other officers had only heard about the case a day and a half later. Not sure how much truth is in that but, has anyone suspected or looked into the officer that came to the scene?
Reg Maura Case:
Neighbor asked if she was ok&offered her his home while awaiting aaa.Possible she refused,he slammed her head into windshield,took her&killed her.
Possible her father was stalking her,upon her crash&leaving car,was kidnapped/killed by father.
Which did her dad visit her apt prior to incident...if so he would've seen boxes.
If she left on her own,perhaps sought shelter under a porch in a crawl space&became stuck/died.even abandoned cabin chimney could kill if one got stuck.
She was already cold/shievering per 1st guy so if she got any colder w no shelter or heat,death wouldn't take long.
Was 1st guy&father given lie detector test?
Be Free Maura
Another good vid. Without going into a long dissertation I'm down to 2 conclusions. Her past indiscretions were catching up to her n she wanted to end her life as M. Murray n start anew. As to her father's involvement it could be he was helping her to do this or he went off the deep end n did something tragic. I will say that in a properly running car with a good exhaust system, if you plug the tailpipe it results in the card quitting several minutes after you start it. Old trick n yes it can damage the engine.
Ok did the officer notice footprints why not follow them if you did was it snowing cause she hit a snowbank
Dylan wicklund ......there were no footprints except around the vehicle, none heading into the woods. The police dog tracked her scent a short distance away from her car then it stopped, just a few hundred feet.
I was once a passenger wearing no seatbelt when the driver slammed on the breaks because the traffic light changed. My head cracked the windshield without breaking the skin.
I have been following this case for years. there's a great show called disappeared they have a episode on maura. I also heard that there were potential sightings of her with a older man at a gas station in the following days after the accident. Someone also claimed to have seen a man at the accident scene but there's been variations of accounts. I've never heard that someone saw a unknown male traveling with her but I read that someone witnessed a car pulling up to the accident scene right before the police came...I could be wrong.
Wow,whAt a story with lots of holes in it..thanks for this info John.someone is hiding a key piece of the reason why she's not found
could she have been traveling to VT to help her sister farm pot?
Good question. She was def heading to VT. The route she was taking all the way from her school And the map quest and the phone calls all lead to her trying to get to VT.
Your first mistake is listening to anything james renner says
She took her money, cards and cell phone... Seems to me that these are things that a suicidal person would leave behind...NOT take with them, as far as her father being involved... Her dad is STILL actively searching for her to this day(July 2020) I really don't think he did anything wrong, there is some seriously sketchy behavior from the local LE... In MY opinion I think that people need to look at local LE. Oh regarding the "roommate saying she had bulimia" it was reported that she did NOT have a roommate.
This is just me guessing, but I wonder if the fact that she suddenly left West Point is cuz she had been sexually assaulted. A lot of women who went there (especially during the early 00's) were assaulted, it was a big deal). That could add to her depression, along with crap family life, eating disorder, law problems, boyfriend problems,car crashes, and now DUI, I think she just had enough, walked out into the woods with her alcohol, got more drunk and killed herself. Also, after her accident she might've lost her temper and kicked or punched her windshield out of frustration. If she was just trying to run from a DUI, why leave the wine in the car? I'm convinced she killed herself. I feel bad for her tho...
Whitney Angelie She left West Point after being caught stealing makeup. Had she not left she was gonna be expelled because theft is a violation of West Point's honor code.
Todd P Oh, ok. Damn that's harsh tho, getting expelled for stealing makeup?! I know West Point is one of the top military schools in the country but that seems harsh even for them.
@@whitneyangelie3682 i actually think that discipline might have saved her life. It seems like she got away with a lot (no punishment for credit card fraud, getting off on a previous DUI car crash, etc). Really she probably shouldn't even have been driving at all, or at least she should have welcomed the police showing up to her last crash to help her instead of perhaps trying to hide (?), and things might have been different.
My possible theory as to what happened is I think she did have intention of running away. Away from bad people or a bad situation. She was drinking heavily probably because she left in a high anxiety and distressed state, maybe due facing actually running away (which I dont see not causing high stress or anxiety. Running away takes a lot from a person in many aspects). Maybe her father found out about it and caught up with her and maybe had something to do with her disappearance, since he mentioned the rag in tail pipe. Or he knows who was responsible. Since her car was wrecked and she didn't want to be caught running away or drinking and driving she could also of taken the bare minimum out of her car and continued her running away, that is if the father had nothing to do with her disappearance. It is also possible the father put the rag into her tail pipe without her knowing, after he found out she planned on running away, and it caused her car to wreck due to the drinking and possible car failure.
Now look!! If BOTH airbags was deployed it means that the had a passenger. Someone was next to her and was wearing a seat belt for sure. Otherwise airbag is NOT WORKING!!! Again a bus driver - if he said that someone else was there, lets think logically: if you didnt see nobody, you will say "i dont know or i didnt see nobody or there was nobody there" right. But if he saying that someone was there + smoking ( its not just to see someone but someone smoking) means he see someone. Its just when being asked with resposebility by authority its better to jump off saying im not sure.
If she bought anew Toyota bush crashed a Saturn, then the Saturn was the rental car? Or was the rental car the replacent for Fred’s new care she crashed? After reading/ listening to/ watching specials, the earthing... I still have red flags and questions. First I wanted to stay almost everything I’ve seen is quite biased. Every one has had a bias to sell accept yours. We need an HONEST ENTIRE account of the day leading up to the leave day and everyone she came in contact with. I do not trust anyone involved yet. There are so many screwy things just with Maura and her recent behavior, current actions, her uncooperative friends. And I get the feeling that at least one brother and two sisters I watched be interviewed raise more questions and red flags then ever before. They are caging and definitely not being completely honest. To me that’s red flag pinned on each friend and now on the Dad, the siblings interviewed, her boyfriend, and Maura’s own bizarre behavior herself. A sistet’s Relationship doesn’t make you cry like that at work. Something heavier was on her mind.
Please be weary of using James Renner as a reference. I used to really like his coverage until he started teasing information on his blog and using it to sell books. Very horrible for Maura's family. Also, I grew up in Weymouth and the "dump of a house" was probably still a nice one. I just think he's disrespectful and attention hungry 😕
Thanks for the video.
The case is full of contradicting information. That's not a huge surprise. People probably saw things that night that didn't seem important at the time. They weren't making careful observations. They were just living their lives and not paying attention to things that didn't seem important. As they reported what they saw, they gave their best information, but they were likely wrong about some details. People looking at the case fixate on one detail or another to try to build a hypothesis, but the details could be wrong.
One point about your video is that you showed a barn and suggested that the first people to call the police called from that building. I've also heard that the house where the people were was across the street from that barn. I don't know the right answer.
She seems to be a decent enough young lady, but she made a long series of bad decisions. I lean towards the belief that she made further bad decisions that night. People make a big issue of scent dogs tracking her scent about a hundred yards down the road before the scent is lost. People interpret this loss as meaning that she got into a car, but scent dog evidence is weak. Dogs can do some things very well, but building a hypothesis around scent dog behavior is a mistake. People say that no one ever found tracks where she left the road and went into the woods. That no one ever found the tracks does not mean that she didn't go into he woods at some point. A simple explanation is that she tried to escape the scene by going down the road and went into the woods at some point. She may have fallen and been injured in the woods. She may have developed hypothermia. Many places in the area were searched and searched thoroughly, but searchers sometimes miss dead bodies. Scavengers will move or scatter decomposing bodies. Lacking further evidence, I lean towards believing that she died in the woods that night or maybe early the next morning. Someday, they may find some of her bones. Otherwise, I don't see a solution to this one.
UMASS Amherst parties especially at that time were the kind you probably didn't know who else was there. They are often extremely dark... Almost always opened to everyone with door coverage even at the frat houses... My older sister went to UMASS Amherst during this time and the last time I visited, we went to a party held in the main school area that ended in gunshots... Every party was so overcrowded you could barely stay indoors and my cellphone was stolen from within my pockets. Its a very bizarre place because it isn't an easy university to get into, and it is surrounded by farm land and very old school families but at night the whole university turns into another place. A very dark drugged and boozed place...
James Renner's blog when he ran it turned up some great info. He wrote a book on this case as well but just finally said I'm done with it moving onto something new. Also disabled the comments which I did not agree with. Honestly I think he could still be unearthing new info that would solve this and I am aware of Lance's podcast they still run it last time I checked but it has been a minute. Its a great podcast would suggest reading Renners book and old blog on this case as well. Great shout out to them John.
Hi, John. I don't think Tim Carpenter would have been particularly predisposed to any sort of biased thought processes, considering he wasn't married to Maura's mother, Laura, rather he was married to her sister, Kathleen.
Just thought that is an important tidbit to clarify because, although Maura's father seems to have a shit reputation and definitely had some seriously questionable behavior, the search for Maura and, ultimately, the truth relies upon facts. Though I'm certain you already know that.
Additionally, I really appreciate all the work you do for/to find the truth regarding, those missing and unaccounted for people who aren't here to give an explanation themselves, and whose families undoubtedly do need all the assistance they can get.
Keep it up. We RUclipsrs will be watching. x
This sounds like a case of someone wanting to disappear and start over in life.
It all points to her running away... I mean if the fathers a dangerous man, he could of abused her. I mean it doesn't mean he killed her but maybe he was very bipolar and he helped her with the rag in her tailpipe but he got very angry (or he was possibly an alcoholic?) and abused her in someway?