For clarification, in the books they don't really care whether or not the hard drives were destroyed. The nanofibers would be so precise in their slice that technicians would have no difficulty in stitching them back up.
I understand a lot of the changes and things left out in this adaptation. However, them not mentioning this in show, which would have taken 5 seconds of dialogue to clarify doesn’t make sense to me. I watched with a non-book reader and they had the exact same concern. It felt very convenient to them. If they didn’t want to explain before, I feel an interesting option would have been to have to have the hard drive sliced and make it feel like the disturbing destruction was for nothing, and then have the repair be a reveal, imo. Judgement Day though was done in such an appropriate devastating way of leaving the question are we the baddies/how far are we willing to go for survival. Love getting Lezbi’s perspective and insight on this!
@@PerrMin Yup. One of the flaws in this show (i think the show is good, but they glossed too many important information) is glossing over the panama canal scene. It took a whole chapter of military officials, scientists and experts that listed potential methods in acquiring the data until Da Shi (Clarence) developed the idea of using the nanofibers. Hell, they called him the devil for such a preposterous idea.
I still don’t think that makes sense. Wouldn’t the weight of the decks above crashing down still be a concern? Can’t guarantee that a crushed hard drive could be fixed.
Plus, any other "cleaner way" would've given the enemies time to destroy the hard drive. Sending in a tactical team could've also resulted in a blood, bath though not nearly as much, but it would've also left them time to destroy the hard drive. They still had a little time with the nanofibers, but the passengers didn't know wtf was even going on; and the nanofibers are undefeatable, compared to any other method. Basically: Nanofibers = guaranteed bloodbath but guaranteed result. Any other method= Less or maybe no bloodbath, but not higher chance of no no result.
When it comes to the issue of stories, I don't think it would matter who explained the concept to them. They are not scared of stories, they are scared of the ability to lie. It's an alien concept to them. Imagine that you assumed people were always being honest to the point that it's not even something you need to think about. And then you learn of this other civilization that is so familiar with the ability of purposely misrepresenting reality that they do it recreationally. How can you trust them? They would be existentially terrifying.
It's actually worse than that. The Santi don't even have the capacity to lie, nor the capacity to understand lies. Imagine discovering that an intelligent alien species that you're in contact with has the capacity to do something that you're not only incapable of, but can't even understand.
Regarding the communication from the pacifist, and how he could defy the rest of the San-Ti: i suspect they will not put it in the show. If you want to know from the book (it's one of the last chapters in book 1), scroll down to the rest of this message. The individual who sent that message was a low-level member of San Ti society, stationed on his own at an outpost for listening to radio signals. Additionally, it was a chaotic era at the time, so most were dehydrated (he had an expensive life support system to let him do his job). He was basically isolated, and so did not have regular contact with others. They did find out that he had sent the "do not reply" message, and if memory serves he was executed for that. EDIT: i found the chapter, and he was not in fact executed. The San Ti leader decided it would be crueler to let him live and force him to witness San Ti society mobilize to destroy the humans he had tried to save. Instead, 6000 others in related jobs were executed publicly
@seraeggobutterworth5247 Which makes what he did all the more tragic. He likely knew he would be severely punished or executed, and he did it anyway 😢 He was willing to sacrifice himself to save another world.
@@supernaturalawesome1 ao meu ver, num foi tão altruísta assim não. Um dos maiores motivos pra ele ter dado o aviso é que o trabalho dele se tornaria obsoleto e, na sociedade dele, alguém sem trabalho também é obsoleto e ele seria sentenciado a morte mesmo que ele não tentasse ajudar a humanidade. Ele quis, no máximo, sacanear a espécie dele pra ajudar a salvar a humanidade que tinha meios de vida muito mais justos do que a própria espécie dele. De certa forma, ele tinha os mesmos desgostos que a Ye tinha. Os dois queriam o fim da própria espécie por motivos egoístas, mas totalmente compreensíveis.
Best episode of sci-fi I've seen in recent memory. No real spoilers below: The boat scene played out pretty much exactly the same as in the books, although there wasn't any mention of kids being on the boat and fire suppression/commando teams sprung into action much quicker. The reason the nanofiber "zither" was used in the first place was that they were so thin that even if a hard drive was sliced in half, the cut would have been so clean that the hard drive could have been recovered. In the books the fire suppressing helicopters and searches were basically on site immediately after so I'm guessing the destruction was hyped up a bit for television. I know it's a pretty dark scene but the sudden cut from the kids panicking to the hallway with all the decorative paper kids holding hands getting sliced one by one made me chuckle a little bit on rewatch from a "I see what you did there" perspective. Re: Evans and his bad storytelling - consider it from the SanTi perspective. Whatever communication organs they use are highly efficient and allows them to do things we would consider insane, like create million+ person "computers" just using their own brains and signalling to each other (think of how that scene from the VR game would have happened if humans tried to do it!). But it comes at a high cost - they cannot "hide their thoughts" and thus the concept of lying and deception is completely and utterly foreign to them. Even Evans, without even intending to do so, was able to convince them of the existence of a complete fairy tale. That's why they said they could not coexist with us - deceiving the SanTi would be easier than convincing a small child that Santa exists. In the prologue to book 2 which is when Mike Evans/SanTi's communication from episode 4 happens, instead of the final line about not being able to coexist, the last line the SanTi ever say to Evans shows their position much more clearly: "I am afraid of you."
The biggest hint that Jack gets rejected from the game when he used Jin's set. The one Jin has never belonged to Vera, Ye Wenjie gave Jin to recruit her.
I think I understand why so many people when watching the show, upon hearing that San Ti can not lie, would jump to the conclusion of them having hive mind. I think it boils down to the understanding of collectivism. In a lot of eastern culture, collectivism is a lot of time self imposed and seen as a virtue. So when San ti says “one mind”, “if one of us survive, all of us survive “, they just mean that’s a common goal shared by 99.9% of the population.
but even if they aren't a hive mind, instant telepathy and the inability to lie (or hold secrets) means that the first SanTi 'pacifist' who cautioned "do not reply" would've broadcasted the existence of earth to all of their society?
@@jojobizz230all is communicated at the moment of communication. He gets the message replies and as soon as he communicates with someone after his treachery he is revealed.
@@jojobizz230 1) that's exactly what happens, the entire race learns of the message but it's not helpful because they need a 2nd signal to triangulate earth's position 2) the San-Ti's thoughts are instantly broadcast via light to any San-Ti within eyesight. So while it's technically "possible" to lie via omission, it's in practice essentially impossible. If I told you to never ever think of a pink elephant, you would slip up countless times and it would only take one to reveal it
It was not luck but actually genius and calculated plan. The nanofibers were only way they could have neutralized the ship without them destroying the hard drive. The can't airstrike, infiltrate or send actual navy because they would see them coming and destroy the hard drive. Getting that hard drive was very crucial. It's a brutal scene but important
In the book they discussed the possibility that the hard drive would be sliced and concluded that they would be able to recover data because the fibers cut is so fine and clean.
So i think, no matter how he would have described the concept of fairytales and fiction, the San-Ti would have come to the same conclusion after finding out that humans could hide their intentions. Its something that they are simply incapable of so they know that they wont be able to safely coexist with humans. So the interaction in the show was just a creative, simplified and condenced way to show them come to that conclusion. But it was inevitable
The big episode.. love seeing people react to this one. To answer your intro question, the San-Ti are not a collective consciousness, they are individuals that communicate telepathically. In the book they can withhold info from others but they can’t hide radio signals 😎
I just binged this show, have to go and read the books now. It crams every major modern philosophical question into one very cool and well constructed story without feeling preachy or too over intellectualised. Its really brilliant.
you will completely change your view on Wade if you see the coming seasons. Wade is the only one possible to save human, one of us survives, all of us survive
This is only true if you think he's evil or that he doesn't want to save humanity. Nothing will necessarily change how you feel about him unless you humanize him.
I'm not sure where exactly you got the idea that the Santi are a collective consciousness. When they communicate, their raw thoughts are transmitted, which makes them incapable of deception, but if you listen carefully to what the Santi said to Evans, you'll notice that they said "if" the wolf communicated, then his true intentions would be revealed, meaning they can choose not to transmit their thoughts. Their exact method of communication is explained in detail in the books, so I recommend reading them for more detail. The first book also gives you the perspective of the Santi pacifist when he receives the signal from Earth, and helps you understand how someone like that could exist in their world.
* "If one survives, we all survive" * Thoughts are automatically communicated telepathically and absorbed by those around is pretty close to a collective consciousness. Unless those thoughts are filtered and the "I AM" overrides other entities' thoughts, an individual thought could be absorbed and on large scales as it passes from mind to mind - this would create an effective "collective consciousness". * We're actually speaking in general terms with abstract concepts like 'collective' and 'consciousness'; there isn't a discrete line that divides individual vs collective consciousness, more of a gradient between isolated thoughts and collective understandings, similar to human culture and the "collective UNconscious" in psychology. From a relative comparison of human vs. San Ti: they have a collective consciousness compared to us humans: the boxed-off minds of apes who think in dualistic terms, hide our thoughts from one another, make up stories that aren't real, etc. Completely foreign and frightening. It makes sense that they would choose to eliminate all humans rather than mess with our conniving species.
@@_o_ I just explained how communication is not automatic in my previous comment. They can choose whether or not to communicate. This is partially an issue with the show. It's made very clear in the books that communication is an active process for the Santi. There are entire sections of the books that are written from their perspective, and in those sections it is revealed that there is still a significant degree of individualism within their society.
It wouldn't have mattered how Evans tried to explain the concept of fiction to the Santi. At the end of the day, fiction is essentially a form of recreational deception. The Santi can only communicate their raw thoughts openly with one another, and the idea of being in contact with another species that can communicate falsehoods was always going to terrify them, no matter how it was explained.
True, but he could have told them it isn't a lie about liars, but rather an allegory, where each of the elements of the story represent truths to the reader. So, it isn't a lie at all, it is the truth. The truth told through imagery.
@@spamfilter32 That "lie about liars" line was just for the benefit of the audience, to help viewers understand the perspective of the Santi. Even if Evans had explained it as you suggest, the story would have still revealed that humans are capable of deception, which is what terrifies the Santi.
Broke english here but i will try: they need pick the comunications without warning nobody or they will run to destroy it,and without destroying the hard drive with explosions etc,the slices have about 10 centimenters far from the others so is enough to kill even people sleepin in a bed (no warning nobody is important) With 10cm between the nanofibers will be very bad luck if the hard drive was cut in many pieces,but even if it was,remember that was a extremely milimetrical line,will be very easy to recover the data if necessary,because the cut will be very clean The people on board live since forever in the cult so every person even the child could do something to alert evans in favor to the "lord";so is a very crucious mission that NEED to suceed at any matters, Wade can't bet,is hard to see the kids dying but is understandable due to the MAGNITUDE that the mission have for the future of humanity.
Worth noting that when the books were written, we didn't really have solid state hard drives yet so it was plausible that the drives could be reconstituted even if they had been sliced. But yeah, with modern hard drives it's a little less plausible that you could recover any data from a nano-sliced SSD. (source: my partner is a software engineer, lol)
Humans can barely coexist with each other. No way a completely different aliens species who communicate with their thoughts and no concept of lying can coexist with us liars.
Ooo, finally!! I'm sure I speak for all the 3BP fans when I say it's been as difficult for us to wait to see you react to this episode as it has for you to wait to watch it!! Before I watch the reaction itself though: I suspect you might have missed part of the fairy tale scene and consequently been overemphasizing the idea that they got spooked by Evans calling fairy tales "lies." They were already deeply upset by the content of the fairy tale itself - the idea that the Big Bad Wolf could deceive Little Red Riding Hood in the first place. THAT is what they're scared by - the human capacity to conceal their true intentions. The fact that Evans then admitted that fiction is in some sense "untrue" is just icing on the cake. I think you're on to something regarding the inconsistency between the pacifist and the idea that they have a collective consciousness. To not spoil anything (though I'm not sure the show has fully explained it all yet, nor am I sure they will make it really unambiguous): are you sure that they're a collective consciousness? Is that the only explanation for their inability to lie to each other? Are there any other variations on that idea that could allow for the existence of individuals with dissenting ideologies?
From what I recall in the book they had calculated where the hard drive was and made sure to space them so it wouldn't slice it. But in the case if it being removed it would easily be fixed because the fibres are that tiny. All of this was planned, there was no luck.
You guys all forgot how shocked the first time you found it's a lie! They KILLED Santa!!! Now you know why Santi can't co-exsit with liars. You are welcome!😂
The Santa analogy is a great one since it is the first time most kids learn that their parents and society actively lie to them…it’s earth shattering (pun intended)
lol humans can co-exist and adapt? Have you read the news lately? You and I just happen to live in a little bubble of time and space that is relatively peaceful - but it's a small bubble subject to change anytime.
Re living together in peace and harmony, you were probably being rhetorical but I'll play devil's advocate... Humans can't even share the same spaces peacefully together, when one group resettles in a place currently inhabited by another group (not to draw too close a comparison to contemporary conflicts....), and that's just between humans who have relatively shared values and psychology and interests. What would make the San Ti think they could trust us when we're so completely different from them? What would make them believe us if we said we'd refrain from turning violent towards them? You really think they'd believe us if we said we'd let them settle Mars and we'd never allow any anti-alien terrorists to go blow up their cities? I don't even believe that! And damn, imagine the reaction if we agreed to cede half of the Earth to them! Like, I get being frustrated that they're apparently not open to diplomacy and are defaulting to conquest. That's maybe not really logical (though maybe their psychology means they've never really had to deal with diplomacy amongst themselves?). But I don't fault them at all for locking down our science. How could they possibly trust any agreement reached with today's humans not to fight them when they arrive, if they allowed us to resume technological progress?* Like, not only might today's humans be lying, but there's nothing to say that future humans wouldn't change their minds. *Note, I'm just saying this from the San Ti perspective that's been revealed so far; I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether the sophons will be successful in blocking humans from making enough progress to successfully resist.
Your reaction to wade's tactics are gold. They added kids to the ship just for that (they weren't there in the books). Hopefully if they ever get to season 4 there'll be a civil war amongst fans between his supporters (like me) and you guys, you softies :)
I don't get why a fairy tale reading would be the first time santi learned about lying. Haven't they been studying us for years with the sophons? In all that time they never figured out humans lie or use metaphor? Good point on the first alien being an individual.
I don’t remember that there were kids on the ship in the books, if I’m recalling it correctly that is, it’s been quite a few years since I read the series.
Season 1 didnt explain why a pacifist santi was possible when they cannot lie and share thoughts. Doubt it will cover it in the future. I can only give a hint from reading the book, santi cannot lie, but they don't share the same interest or value about the world. Individual santi can betray the collective interest of their race but cannot keep the betrayal in dark like humans are able to.
The pacifist was in a space station alone for many years. So everything it knows would be shared once it went back to it's planet surface and got close to other trisolarians. Sorry I keep wanting to call them what the English translation name was.
Episode 5 is a wild episode. Nanofibers would, unfortunately, be used this way. just 2 $2000 drones with a nanofiber strung between them could easily sink a 5 Billion dollar aircraft carrier. This tech would make navy's totally obsolete. But the biggest and best use for the nanofiber technology would be to use them to make space elevators. The space elevators work by make a 'rope' that stretches out into space. You then attach essentially cable cars to the rope and have them run up and down the rope into space carrying cargo to and from. This would save tremendous amounts of rocket fuel as these could carry significantly larger payloads than any rocket could. The thing with space elevators, to make the rope out of steal would require that the rope be miles wide at the base. And thus, impossible to make. But with the nanofiber technology, twisting thousands of the strands together, would result in a rope no thicker than a few inches; maybe a few feet in diameter at most. that *would* be doable. I haven't read the books, so none of this is a spoiler, but my speculation is that we will see a space elevator made from nanofibers in the next season.
Most of your problems are adressed in the book so i won´t go into them. It´s the same problem as with WoT, 8 Episodes are not enough for the story. Two more Episodes whould have made a great series into a outstanding one like the books are.
For clarification, in the books they don't really care whether or not the hard drives were destroyed. The nanofibers would be so precise in their slice that technicians would have no difficulty in stitching them back up.
I understand a lot of the changes and things left out in this adaptation. However, them not mentioning this in show, which would have taken 5 seconds of dialogue to clarify doesn’t make sense to me. I watched with a non-book reader and they had the exact same concern. It felt very convenient to them. If they didn’t want to explain before, I feel an interesting option would have been to have to have the hard drive sliced and make it feel like the disturbing destruction was for nothing, and then have the repair be a reveal, imo. Judgement Day though was done in such an appropriate devastating way of leaving the question are we the baddies/how far are we willing to go for survival. Love getting Lezbi’s perspective and insight on this!
@@PerrMin Yup. One of the flaws in this show (i think the show is good, but they glossed too many important information) is glossing over the panama canal scene. It took a whole chapter of military officials, scientists and experts that listed potential methods in acquiring the data until Da Shi (Clarence) developed the idea of using the nanofibers. Hell, they called him the devil for such a preposterous idea.
I still don’t think that makes sense. Wouldn’t the weight of the decks above crashing down still be a concern? Can’t guarantee that a crushed hard drive could be fixed.
@@smcvicar1983 with today's tech, data can still be retrieved from damaged hard drives
And water damage and fire damage...doesn't make much sense
They used the nanofibers because if it cut the hard drive it would have been the cleanest cut possible and the data could be retrieved.
Plus, any other "cleaner way" would've given the enemies time to destroy the hard drive. Sending in a tactical team could've also resulted in a blood, bath though not nearly as much, but it would've also left them time to destroy the hard drive. They still had a little time with the nanofibers, but the passengers didn't know wtf was even going on; and the nanofibers are undefeatable, compared to any other method.
Basically: Nanofibers = guaranteed bloodbath but guaranteed result. Any other method= Less or maybe no bloodbath, but not higher chance of no no result.
When it comes to the issue of stories, I don't think it would matter who explained the concept to them. They are not scared of stories, they are scared of the ability to lie.
It's an alien concept to them. Imagine that you assumed people were always being honest to the point that it's not even something you need to think about.
And then you learn of this other civilization that is so familiar with the ability of purposely misrepresenting reality that they do it recreationally. How can you trust them? They would be existentially terrifying.
It's actually worse than that. The Santi don't even have the capacity to lie, nor the capacity to understand lies. Imagine discovering that an intelligent alien species that you're in contact with has the capacity to do something that you're not only incapable of, but can't even understand.
"I'm nervous because I dont want to watch someone killed" Oh Dear!!!
Regarding the communication from the pacifist, and how he could defy the rest of the San-Ti: i suspect they will not put it in the show. If you want to know from the book (it's one of the last chapters in book 1), scroll down to the rest of this message.
The individual who sent that message was a low-level member of San Ti society, stationed on his own at an outpost for listening to radio signals. Additionally, it was a chaotic era at the time, so most were dehydrated (he had an expensive life support system to let him do his job). He was basically isolated, and so did not have regular contact with others. They did find out that he had sent the "do not reply" message, and if memory serves he was executed for that. EDIT: i found the chapter, and he was not in fact executed. The San Ti leader decided it would be crueler to let him live and force him to witness San Ti society mobilize to destroy the humans he had tried to save. Instead, 6000 others in related jobs were executed publicly
He wasn't executed, his punishment is that they will preserve him long enough for him to see the San-Ti wipe out the human race.
ah thank u, that clears it up. damn, 6000 associated executions, reminds me of how Empire deals with his enemies in Foundation.
Wow 😐
The San-Ti are vicious 😬
@seraeggobutterworth5247
Which makes what he did all the more tragic. He likely knew he would be severely punished or executed, and he did it anyway 😢
He was willing to sacrifice himself to save another world.
@@supernaturalawesome1 ao meu ver, num foi tão altruísta assim não. Um dos maiores motivos pra ele ter dado o aviso é que o trabalho dele se tornaria obsoleto e, na sociedade dele, alguém sem trabalho também é obsoleto e ele seria sentenciado a morte mesmo que ele não tentasse ajudar a humanidade. Ele quis, no máximo, sacanear a espécie dele pra ajudar a salvar a humanidade que tinha meios de vida muito mais justos do que a própria espécie dele. De certa forma, ele tinha os mesmos desgostos que a Ye tinha. Os dois queriam o fim da própria espécie por motivos egoístas, mas totalmente compreensíveis.
Best episode of sci-fi I've seen in recent memory. No real spoilers below:
The boat scene played out pretty much exactly the same as in the books, although there wasn't any mention of kids being on the boat and fire suppression/commando teams sprung into action much quicker. The reason the nanofiber "zither" was used in the first place was that they were so thin that even if a hard drive was sliced in half, the cut would have been so clean that the hard drive could have been recovered. In the books the fire suppressing helicopters and searches were basically on site immediately after so I'm guessing the destruction was hyped up a bit for television.
I know it's a pretty dark scene but the sudden cut from the kids panicking to the hallway with all the decorative paper kids holding hands getting sliced one by one made me chuckle a little bit on rewatch from a "I see what you did there" perspective.
Re: Evans and his bad storytelling - consider it from the SanTi perspective. Whatever communication organs they use are highly efficient and allows them to do things we would consider insane, like create million+ person "computers" just using their own brains and signalling to each other (think of how that scene from the VR game would have happened if humans tried to do it!). But it comes at a high cost - they cannot "hide their thoughts" and thus the concept of lying and deception is completely and utterly foreign to them. Even Evans, without even intending to do so, was able to convince them of the existence of a complete fairy tale. That's why they said they could not coexist with us - deceiving the SanTi would be easier than convincing a small child that Santa exists. In the prologue to book 2 which is when Mike Evans/SanTi's communication from episode 4 happens, instead of the final line about not being able to coexist, the last line the SanTi ever say to Evans shows their position much more clearly: "I am afraid of you."
The biggest hint that Jack gets rejected from the game when he used Jin's set. The one Jin has never belonged to Vera, Ye Wenjie gave Jin to recruit her.
I think I understand why so many people when watching the show, upon hearing that San Ti can not lie, would jump to the conclusion of them having hive mind. I think it boils down to the understanding of collectivism. In a lot of eastern culture, collectivism is a lot of time self imposed and seen as a virtue. So when San ti says “one mind”, “if one of us survive, all of us survive “, they just mean that’s a common goal shared by 99.9% of the population.
but even if they aren't a hive mind, instant telepathy and the inability to lie (or hold secrets) means that the first SanTi 'pacifist' who cautioned "do not reply" would've broadcasted the existence of earth to all of their society?
@@jojobizz230all is communicated at the moment of communication. He gets the message replies and as soon as he communicates with someone after his treachery he is revealed.
@@jojobizz230 1) that's exactly what happens, the entire race learns of the message but it's not helpful because they need a 2nd signal to triangulate earth's position 2) the San-Ti's thoughts are instantly broadcast via light to any San-Ti within eyesight. So while it's technically "possible" to lie via omission, it's in practice essentially impossible. If I told you to never ever think of a pink elephant, you would slip up countless times and it would only take one to reveal it
It was not luck but actually genius and calculated plan.
The nanofibers were only way they could have neutralized the ship without them destroying the hard drive. The can't airstrike, infiltrate or send actual navy because they would see them coming and destroy the hard drive. Getting that hard drive was very crucial. It's a brutal scene but important
In the book they discussed the possibility that the hard drive would be sliced and concluded that they would be able to recover data because the fibers cut is so fine and clean.
So i think, no matter how he would have described the concept of fairytales and fiction, the San-Ti would have come to the same conclusion after finding out that humans could hide their intentions. Its something that they are simply incapable of so they know that they wont be able to safely coexist with humans. So the interaction in the show was just a creative, simplified and condenced way to show them come to that conclusion. But it was inevitable
Agreed 💯
The big episode.. love seeing people react to this one.
To answer your intro question, the San-Ti are not a collective consciousness, they are individuals that communicate telepathically. In the book they can withhold info from others but they can’t hide radio signals 😎
I just binged this show, have to go and read the books now. It crams every major modern philosophical question into one very cool and well constructed story without feeling preachy or too over intellectualised. Its really brilliant.
you will completely change your view on Wade if you see the coming seasons. Wade is the only one possible to save human, one of us survives, all of us survive
Yeah from a pure utilitarian viewpoint he's the hero we need in this story.
This is only true if you think he's evil or that he doesn't want to save humanity. Nothing will necessarily change how you feel about him unless you humanize him.
I just realized that Rosamund Pike is an Executive Producer along with Brad Pitt
Humans: Hey, u up?
Shan-ti: Yes
Humans: Send pics!
🤣
Shan-ti: LMAO no way, its baaaad
Humans: Cmon we got 400 years for us to get drunk af
Shan-ti: Still wont be plastered enough to want us at ur place
I'm not sure where exactly you got the idea that the Santi are a collective consciousness. When they communicate, their raw thoughts are transmitted, which makes them incapable of deception, but if you listen carefully to what the Santi said to Evans, you'll notice that they said "if" the wolf communicated, then his true intentions would be revealed, meaning they can choose not to transmit their thoughts. Their exact method of communication is explained in detail in the books, so I recommend reading them for more detail. The first book also gives you the perspective of the Santi pacifist when he receives the signal from Earth, and helps you understand how someone like that could exist in their world.
* "If one survives, we all survive"
* Thoughts are automatically communicated telepathically and absorbed by those around is pretty close to a collective consciousness. Unless those thoughts are filtered and the "I AM" overrides other entities' thoughts, an individual thought could be absorbed and on large scales as it passes from mind to mind - this would create an effective "collective consciousness".
* We're actually speaking in general terms with abstract concepts like 'collective' and 'consciousness'; there isn't a discrete line that divides individual vs collective consciousness, more of a gradient between isolated thoughts and collective understandings, similar to human culture and the "collective UNconscious" in psychology. From a relative comparison of human vs. San Ti: they have a collective consciousness compared to us humans: the boxed-off minds of apes who think in dualistic terms, hide our thoughts from one another, make up stories that aren't real, etc. Completely foreign and frightening. It makes sense that they would choose to eliminate all humans rather than mess with our conniving species.
@@_o_ I just explained how communication is not automatic in my previous comment. They can choose whether or not to communicate. This is partially an issue with the show. It's made very clear in the books that communication is an active process for the Santi. There are entire sections of the books that are written from their perspective, and in those sections it is revealed that there is still a significant degree of individualism within their society.
It wouldn't have mattered how Evans tried to explain the concept of fiction to the Santi. At the end of the day, fiction is essentially a form of recreational deception. The Santi can only communicate their raw thoughts openly with one another, and the idea of being in contact with another species that can communicate falsehoods was always going to terrify them, no matter how it was explained.
True, but he could have told them it isn't a lie about liars, but rather an allegory, where each of the elements of the story represent truths to the reader. So, it isn't a lie at all, it is the truth. The truth told through imagery.
@@spamfilter32 That "lie about liars" line was just for the benefit of the audience, to help viewers understand the perspective of the Santi. Even if Evans had explained it as you suggest, the story would have still revealed that humans are capable of deception, which is what terrifies the Santi.
Broke english here but i will try: they need pick the comunications without warning nobody or they will run to destroy it,and without destroying the hard drive with explosions etc,the slices have about 10 centimenters far from the others so is enough to kill even people sleepin in a bed (no warning nobody is important)
With 10cm between the nanofibers will be very bad luck if the hard drive was cut in many pieces,but even if it was,remember that was a extremely milimetrical line,will be very easy to recover the data if necessary,because the cut will be very clean
The people on board live since forever in the cult so every person even the child could do something to alert evans in favor to the "lord";so is a very crucious mission that NEED to suceed at any matters, Wade can't bet,is hard to see the kids dying but is understandable due to the MAGNITUDE that the mission have for the future of humanity.
Seria tão melhor se eles tivessem dado um tempo pra explicar essas coisas. Eu desisti de escrever em inglês, quem quiser que traduza kkkkkkk.
Worth noting that when the books were written, we didn't really have solid state hard drives yet so it was plausible that the drives could be reconstituted even if they had been sliced. But yeah, with modern hard drives it's a little less plausible that you could recover any data from a nano-sliced SSD.
(source: my partner is a software engineer, lol)
Humans can barely coexist with each other. No way a completely different aliens species who communicate with their thoughts and no concept of lying can coexist with us liars.
The San-Ti can build proton sized robots that see everything on Earth. But can they see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Ooo, finally!! I'm sure I speak for all the 3BP fans when I say it's been as difficult for us to wait to see you react to this episode as it has for you to wait to watch it!!
Before I watch the reaction itself though: I suspect you might have missed part of the fairy tale scene and consequently been overemphasizing the idea that they got spooked by Evans calling fairy tales "lies." They were already deeply upset by the content of the fairy tale itself - the idea that the Big Bad Wolf could deceive Little Red Riding Hood in the first place. THAT is what they're scared by - the human capacity to conceal their true intentions. The fact that Evans then admitted that fiction is in some sense "untrue" is just icing on the cake.
I think you're on to something regarding the inconsistency between the pacifist and the idea that they have a collective consciousness. To not spoil anything (though I'm not sure the show has fully explained it all yet, nor am I sure they will make it really unambiguous): are you sure that they're a collective consciousness? Is that the only explanation for their inability to lie to each other? Are there any other variations on that idea that could allow for the existence of individuals with dissenting ideologies?
From what I recall in the book they had calculated where the hard drive was and made sure to space them so it wouldn't slice it. But in the case if it being removed it would easily be fixed because the fibres are that tiny. All of this was planned, there was no luck.
we take thousands of years，still a lot people not use to a guy with only a different color
My jaw was on the floor for the boat sequence
I understand why you did, but I would seriously reconsider your inference that they're a collective consciousness
"I've seen a lot of scifi. It could work!"
You guys all forgot how shocked the first time you found it's a lie! They KILLED Santa!!! Now you know why Santi can't co-exsit with liars. You are welcome!😂
The Santa analogy is a great one since it is the first time most kids learn that their parents and society actively lie to them…it’s earth shattering (pun intended)
Aliens are smart enough to know it won't work.
lol humans can co-exist and adapt? Have you read the news lately? You and I just happen to live in a little bubble of time and space that is relatively peaceful - but it's a small bubble subject to change anytime.
Great episode! What software do you use for your avatar?
Re living together in peace and harmony, you were probably being rhetorical but I'll play devil's advocate...
Humans can't even share the same spaces peacefully together, when one group resettles in a place currently inhabited by another group (not to draw too close a comparison to contemporary conflicts....), and that's just between humans who have relatively shared values and psychology and interests. What would make the San Ti think they could trust us when we're so completely different from them? What would make them believe us if we said we'd refrain from turning violent towards them? You really think they'd believe us if we said we'd let them settle Mars and we'd never allow any anti-alien terrorists to go blow up their cities? I don't even believe that! And damn, imagine the reaction if we agreed to cede half of the Earth to them!
Like, I get being frustrated that they're apparently not open to diplomacy and are defaulting to conquest. That's maybe not really logical (though maybe their psychology means they've never really had to deal with diplomacy amongst themselves?). But I don't fault them at all for locking down our science. How could they possibly trust any agreement reached with today's humans not to fight them when they arrive, if they allowed us to resume technological progress?* Like, not only might today's humans be lying, but there's nothing to say that future humans wouldn't change their minds.
*Note, I'm just saying this from the San Ti perspective that's been revealed so far; I'm not saying, one way or the other, whether the sophons will be successful in blocking humans from making enough progress to successfully resist.
I can see you're really into this show now cuz before you only updated it every two days😚
Now we will not STAND for Museli slander, that stuff is amazing plain I eat them like chips all the time! (Your shock at seeing it though made me day)
Your reaction to wade's tactics are gold. They added kids to the ship just for that (they weren't there in the books). Hopefully if they ever get to season 4 there'll be a civil war amongst fans between his supporters (like me) and you guys, you softies :)
Yeah, no. Even humans don't coexist with humans.
I don't get why a fairy tale reading would be the first time santi learned about lying. Haven't they been studying us for years with the sophons? In all that time they never figured out humans lie or use metaphor? Good point on the first alien being an individual.
TRUE 😭 I need an answer to this lol
Peanut butter crunch is my go to out of the box cereal snacking
I don’t remember that there were kids on the ship in the books, if I’m recalling it correctly that is, it’s been quite a few years since I read the series.
There weren't they added kids to make it more horrifying.
Season 1 didnt explain why a pacifist santi was possible when they cannot lie and share thoughts. Doubt it will cover it in the future. I can only give a hint from reading the book, santi cannot lie, but they don't share the same interest or value about the world. Individual santi can betray the collective interest of their race but cannot keep the betrayal in dark like humans are able to.
The pacifist was in a space station alone for many years. So everything it knows would be shared once it went back to it's planet surface and got close to other trisolarians. Sorry I keep wanting to call them what the English translation name was.
Episode 5 is a wild episode. Nanofibers would, unfortunately, be used this way. just 2 $2000 drones with a nanofiber strung between them could easily sink a 5 Billion dollar aircraft carrier. This tech would make navy's totally obsolete.
But the biggest and best use for the nanofiber technology would be to use them to make space elevators. The space elevators work by make a 'rope' that stretches out into space. You then attach essentially cable cars to the rope and have them run up and down the rope into space carrying cargo to and from. This would save tremendous amounts of rocket fuel as these could carry significantly larger payloads than any rocket could. The thing with space elevators, to make the rope out of steal would require that the rope be miles wide at the base. And thus, impossible to make. But with the nanofiber technology, twisting thousands of the strands together, would result in a rope no thicker than a few inches; maybe a few feet in diameter at most. that *would* be doable. I haven't read the books, so none of this is a spoiler, but my speculation is that we will see a space elevator made from nanofibers in the next season.
@LezbiNerdy regarding how the Santi communicate. You’re a Star Trek fan. Think of the Santi more like the Betazoids less like the Borg.
Humans are infinitely adaptable, but the San Ti are not.
Most of your problems are adressed in the book so i won´t go into them.
It´s the same problem as with WoT, 8 Episodes are not enough for the story. Two more Episodes whould have made a great series into a outstanding one like the books are.
Coexist?! Haha you fool :D