if we could set up a discord server and form a community like pokemon showdown where reasonable rules and bans are put in place i think the pvp could be lots of fun
As someone with no real competitive interest in like, basically ANY game period, this video was still really fun and interesting. Dragon Quest doesn't really get in-depth videos like these really breaking down mechanics, and that's doubly so for spin-offs like Monsters which are even more niche. It's really fun just hearing someone talk about DQ in such a way because it just never happens, even if this particular topic wasn't exactly singing praises. I would love to see you cover the Monster Hunter Stories games, both in general and for their PVP. Granted I think Stories 2 is pretty dead at this point and the ports of Stories 1 I don't imagine being too big PVP-wise. But still, seeing you branch out to other Monster Collection games besides Monster Rancher would just be so fascinating given your more competitive and analytical view of mechanics.
This is always interesting, since this game always felt like was designed for a single player experience. By that I mean the mechanics make sense for boss fights, regular enemies ect, but quickly fall apart the moment you try to force them in a competitive situation. In a lot of ways it's like the opposite of a lot of modern pokemon games, where the games are clearly set up for doubles competitive in mind and doesn't even account for single player content all that much.
Honestly, for me going back and playing the colosseum and XD games really pushes that point home since I used mons that are typically bad for a normal playthrough (looking at you magcargo) but the format allowed them to actually shine. It just makes me wish the new game would actually have the option to do more since modern pokemon feels terrified of doing something that pushes the envelope
This is actually the exact problem Palworld mentioned facing when trying to add PvP. You can't just take a single player game and then add competitive which is clearly what they did with DQM3. PvP has to be intentionally crafted. Even in games where it gives off an impression of being less hand crafted like Dark Souls, it's still completely separate as an entity from the main game experience and can evolve on its own accord.
My conclusion to having fun with DQM3 past the end of the game is: Im just gonna replay the story with self imposed challenges. The Multiplayer seemed so cool at first, but weeks and months of realizing nothing mattered in your discord broke me and everyone else trying. Now I just want to beat the game with a team of Artisan Skeletons
it's funny, even on my very first playthrough with like, zero knowledge of how the game worked i was able to throw together a team that rolled the entire game. Would like to try it again with more restrictions to see what it's like.
Nah, the editing, writing, argument structure and annunciation are WAY too clean for this to a be a 5k view vid. Commenting for the algorithm, you're on the way up
I originally had something much more technical planned for the whole bass bit but i just couldnt get it tight enough so i fell onto an old classic instead.
As a big fan of DQM who never really touched the PvP side of things, this was a very interesting watch. It's odd how many mechanics were omitted in this game, between 3+ slot monsters who could attack the entire enemy team with their basic attacks, tension which let you build up power over time, or skills clashing if two opposing monsters used the same attack causing them to cancel each other out. Also more utility moves like Magic Barrier to reduce incoming magic damage or Unnatural Order which is this series' version of Trick Room. DQM3 is a very fun game though and I'm still REALLY glad it got localized and gets some recognition, this series has not seen an english release in 10+ years. Loved the vid.
This might have been one of my favorite videos thus far. There's something about the way you tie everything together that I can easily get behind, yet would never be able to recreate. You're eloquent yet stick to the adage of brevity is the soul of wit. This is out of left field, but I would love to pick your brain to see how the process of script writing goes for you, it's just a level of smoothness that I would love to learn myself, especially now that I'm getting my foot on the door of an industry that requires it. With that out of the way, it's a tragedy how little every action seems to mean in PvP for The Dark Prince. I suck at Pokemon, yet I can see how you can make the most out of the (sometimes incredibly unnnecessary) level of RNG. In this game, it feels like probability is more of an afterthought. For example, watching your team lose because they randomly swang for 4 huge AoE spells instead of the usual 2 or whatever, just feels wrong. Besides, watching the same strategy play out as if every opponent is the same, since there's little to no player expression, makes it seem like everything's a blur, as if you're stuck on a pointless loop. I'm going to be trying out Joker 1 this week, so here's hoping people weren't kidding about it being one of the most reasonable in terms of viability, even if I never end up playing Wifi battles. PS: Sorry for the essay!
Hey thanks for the kind words. I'm still learning and have lots to improve on but here's my process: For scripting: the thesis idea usually comes to me first before I even start writing anything. I don't really make stuff just for the sake of making stuff; if the idea isn't there then I don't bother. Editing is too time consuming if I don't think what I'm trying to say is interesting. I usually just make a short outline of what I want to talk about in the video. For this one I had just been in a real self improvement mindset after buying the bass and that's what fueled a lot of the narrative. When you're writing the script *and* making the video it's a lot of work but it also helps a lot with editing for pace and timing. I cut about 10 minutes of script simply because it wasn't interesting enough to animate or find footage for. Self-editing for the purposes of scripting is very difficult to do quickly since it can feel like every little bit is important and good, but when you're under the gun to get something done in a timeframe it changes your whole perspective on what's important and what doesn't matter that much. As far as through-line and narrative structure is concerned: you and everyone else who has said something similar is kind to say what you did but I feel like I'm still pretty weak in this aspect. I think it's just that so much of youtube is like, legitimately low effort and expendable that putting in some narrative effort - even if it's not very good - stands out a lot. I also think it's possible to get too wrapped up in your own narrative and try to make this great opus when it doesn't need to be that at all. I just try to make videos that are fun to watch more than once.
@@Moosebones Thank you for taking the time to reply, Nash! This was genuinely enlightening. I think you're a little hard on yourself, but I'm glad to hear you're still looking to improve on your themeing/plot. On a side note, your use of reincorporation (very prevalent on other video essays you have made) is the cherry on top for me. But anyway, as always, keep up the good work! It's not like I intend to stop watching your videos anytime soon!
This kinda reminds me of why I like lower tiers of Pokemon competitive so much more than the highest tier. I think throwing a bunch of weirdos together and trying to make something cohesive out of them is so much more fun and interesting than a bunch of high-BST units who are all strong for very obvious reasons. You end up using gimmick pokemon and early game chaff in a way you probably won't even do in the singleplayer mode! Its wonderful, and its especially fun to play with friends who don't know much about competitive pokemon.
Dragon Quest Monsters was never about the competitive side, they were always fun single player games, where the challenge was in unlocking all the secret monsters through their various combinations. I think they are fine as they are, and should continue to focus on their strong suit. The original two Dragon Warrior Monsters games for the game boy are easily some of my favorite video games of all time. I go back to them constantly. The remakes don't capture the same magic, even if they are good on their own.
@@felixdaniels37 them adding pvp is fine bc people will want to play vs each other, the issues mostly stem from how the game functions in conjunction with a ranking system (i didnt even mention how it has the world's worst lobby system and friend battles setup because i totally forgot it even existed)
25:25 I don’t know if it’s intentional, but the funny thing about this is that Gen 1 competitive is almost exactly this scenario. Hyper Beam Tauros is one of the best Pokemon in Gen 1, partially because it doesn’t have to worry about a recharge turn* (when it gets a kill) and because normal moves are unresisted* (except for the only two good ones, Rhydon and Gengar). The metagame is much better than DQM3 though, mostly due to the environment. Unlike this game, Gen 1 is very skill-based
I was watching the stream where you were talking about this was a video you're proud of and I think I'd heavily agree that I can tell you took time to really polish this one up with a fun visual style. Great work on the video. I loved the paper and pencil text and all those fun little details!
Dude, you kicked up the notch on the editing front. So many good visuals and animations. You've really been improving, it's awesome to see. Keep on keeping on!
Got randomly suggested this and i love the humor, sketchy art style for parts, the analogies really helped me understand some parts i didnt really have context for, since i dont really pay competitive games, but your content has alot of care put into it, and is very entertaining to watch! one of the few channels i just instantly subscribed to!
Great video! Loved the production value and completely agree with how you summarized all the problems with DQM3’s competitive battles. You alluded to this, but I think balancing the game so that you can use any monster you want (in the sense that stat caps are around the same for every monster) really hurts competitive. Even though every monster has its own identity and niche competitively, they’re just too powerful. I prefer how it was in older games (Like Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2) where competitive play was based on tiers similar to competitive pokemon showdown. In the lower tiers, and monsters of lower ranks had much lower stat caps that monsters with high ranks. It made fusing high ranking monsters feel extra special since they were definitely better. But the tiers of competitive were really interesting too. You could play on a lower tier with high level, low rank monsters, or you could have a higher rank monster with a super low level to qualify or “sneak” into the tier. This gave tons of variety in strategies with each tier, and gave players a chance to succeed by still using their favorites and not forced to fight the strongest strategies in the meta overall.
... out of curiosity, have you ever played gen 1 competitive? because you just described more or less how gen 1 H.Beam works. Due to a glitch, if you KO the opponent pokemon with hyper beam... you don't trigger the recharge.
Yeah i played a lot of gen1 comp back in the late 90s. You couldn't use hyper beam *every* turn tho, you werent scoing constant ohko's with tauros, it just had a reward for being the finishing blow.
Took me Nearly 80s Hours to beat all Single Player Content in this game,Tried multiplayer lost 5 times in a row this video expains why. Like they is not even any Dungeons after story in this game and not like any wild rank a or higher monsters anywhere to catch or battle outside Ranked online either.Thats like 30% of Monsters in the whole game you never see ouside of Online. This is first DQ game to ever have Paid DLC too. Yet they would not let people in West Play 3DS games in series which had more features/monster than this game .
7:24 there I am Gary :O Really good video, I enjoyed it a lot! I'm thinking about playing DQM3 pvp again because of this video which is kinda ironic lol
Also, I love how you'v been using your own drawings to add on to the art, that you started way back when on one of the Rancher Rundowns, I think it was Phoenix? Either way, it adds a lovely touch of personality, and it feels homely.
Absolutely fantastic video and one of your best yet. Love your MR stuff, but you talking competitive games and competitiveness in general can be even better.
I really appreciate this in-depth explanation. I adore Dragon Quest Monsters and was looking forward to this installment for years. It is really disappointing that its competitive format does not reward much skill. Would you ever be interested in dissecting the meta of Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 3 Pro on the 3DS? I tried watching alot of Japanese footage matches and it looked it had alot of team variety but thanks to what I know now from this video, I really hope that was not the same case of being just a gambling game. As for me, my personal favorite monsters in the game are guys like Jargon, Jailcat, Cruelcumber, Pteranodon and Queen Slime to name a few.
Great video, and subbed! Fuckin hilarious. One small piece of advice though, your music is overmixed by a bit. Not much, but it competes with your voice a little! If you care, try lowering it by about 10%. Really happy to see someone enjoying bass, too :)
never has a video about the problems of a game's pvp system enticed me more to play the game and get into its pvp. I have the demo on the switch. also! in the ultra crafty traits section, the song that you played unlocked a memory of absolutely loving it and going nuts when I heard it. what's it from, is it a kirby song?
Yoshi's wooly world, and yeah I had fun with the pvp until I tried to break it and realized what you see is what you get. Still worth experiencing for yourself tho imo.
Simple Question, why 3? To my Knowledge there were 6 Installments before this? Do Caravan Heart and Joker 1-3 do not count for some reason? That aside the piggys are so adorable I had to show them off to my freinds to, when I first encountered them
Awesome video with seriously amazing edits and musical choice 👌 Love watching these even though I have ZERO experience with most of the games you mention
Is that the bass line from Catch 22's Walking Away???? I did such a double take, that's so cool! ❤ Never heard of the game before but you've earned the sub for sure😉
I love existing in the weird niche where I recognize and can name every new song that goes on in the background. G Theme in 2024? I don't believe the quality of taste.
Man this video was so great watching! I left DQM few month ago cause I got no more time to play it but man, I feel you in every way I will connect back my switch to build a tentacles party and have so much fun :DDD
Making another comment to talk about the Sparkling stuff at 12:14 The newest update at the time of writing this comment (1.0.6) added a bunch of new items that you can get from Fizzy in her rotating shop that lets you apply a specific sparkle to any monster. It's pretty pricey at 100k gold but I guess this is the price you pay to not deal with more RNG. Speaking of RNG, they've made it so that using a sparkling monster during a fusion yields a higher chance of creating a sparkling monster, so there's that too I guess. And you can actually see which stat was upgraded too now. They also let you check your monster's Size value now and added items to change it so you can make giants more consistently.
Yeah the new patch changes a lot of stuff for the better. It's still not enough but every change they've made (except the personal grudge nerf) has been a net gain for a better competitive experience, so there's still hope I suppose.
Honestly compared to the older games, this actually seems *more* competitively designed; monsters all have very particular niches, even early game stuff, whereas stuff is more generically archetypal in the others, aside from frenzy state specifically, it's just the damage values are somewhat out of whack atm. Honestly the only dqm game that felt designed with competitive intent aside from this one is Terry's Wonderland 3D, and it actually almost comes as a detriment to the single player experience.
No game with day 1 DLC should ever be bought. Of the many, many, MANY cancerous polyps that have grown on the ass of the video game industry, it is the most egregious.
honestly some proper balance patches would fix the pvp and make it super fun. like for example 1. no "fight" command u have to choose ur attacks aside from additional turns. 2. cc immunity for a turn after a hard stun etc 3. not being able to spamm the same ability over and over with additional actions. 4. adding anti heal abilities, aswell as having the counter abilities to cc properly work.
Just ordered it tonight to scratch the itch for DQ3 HD2D. Any chance they patched or worked on anything by now?? The auto battler aspect sounds interesting and fun.
They did a ton of patches to the game over the first few months. Some of the issues I have with the game are fixed and some have been made more extreme lol. Still a great game, def worth playing for yourself.
I refused to buy the DLC and basically completed the entire monster pedia by myself. Though for the Demon race, even though I have all of them that are listed, it still won't give me the 100%. I have no idea what to do or if it is locked behind DLC
Just discovered your channel.. I'm a big fan of the DQM serie so that's how I encountered your video, and, this video is wonderful ! Good luck for the future, but from now on, I'll be watching your content ! ✨
I would like it way more if they focused on PVE and there was Co-Op gameplay mixing your monster team with a friend. More end game stuff. Endless strong random dungeons. I hate how they removed +99 system they should of expanded it to +9999 and the higher gives more bonuses. They also should of made stat caps way higher for PVM mode and all monsters able to hit max stats. So you can play a long time just for fun with friends.
Comeback mechanics in competitive games reminds me how on dota2 they introduced rubberband mechanics, pushing games past 1 hr. As a viewer it was somehow good cause hey games are unpredictable, they throw more money at the game so valve is happy, but man did players hate it so much. Professional or not, games felt that they dragged on until on team makes a mistake and then one team wins
i've rewatched this video over 3 times- so good! it's a shame pvp was so atrocious that the game died, i really liked watching you theory craft, team build and pvp (despite the grief it caused you)
I know nothing about this game I just wanted something in the background while I cooked and cleaned. Anywaysgreat commentary was able to follow along without watching most of the video. You've also got a great voice and cadence for this style of content. Cheers boss
@@brianstanley1568 Joker 3 has a partial English patch, more complete than Joker 2 Pro (which got c&d'd), and more than enough to play through the entire game. It's all yours if you can find the last edition of Citra. Careful though, the game CHUGS in certain areas, but it's manageable. Also don't change the clock or you miss out on Metal Menagerie 2: Gold Edition. But you'll have infinite access to the original if you do fuck it up.
Besides the quickly matchs I never tried battle others cuz I just wanna play with my faves little guys on the main game. But I didn't imagined competitive was so broken
Subscribed! Oh, and the PC port removed multiplayer!😂 They basically realized it was unfixable and most likely got enough negative feed back to just remove it altogether!😅
They tried pretty hard to fix it with a lot of meaningful patches (some for better some for worse) but yeah if the goal was for it to be competitive it just wasn't going to work. As a goofy autobattler without much player involvement it's still fun tho.
so I played the gacha dragon quest tact for a while when it was available in english, and I'm just extremely happy to see that damselfly is an adorable little menace in this game too
DQM3 never claimed to be anything other than a single player RPG with the "Play against your friends!" part being a no-effort gimmick not meant for serious thought.
Man, kind of sounds like the final tie-breaker coinflip should have just been the first tie-breaker. Just to give you another random chance to randomly win the game.
Stun is a very busted debuff in DQM. I can heavily agree with that since you can get AOE based stuns earily that are ridiculous at higher levels. Most terrifying spell that has literally high damage, and not many monsters have resistance would be Black Breath and Grim Breath. Just boost wisdom status and those attacks do absurd amounts of damage. Even if the opponent has resistance to dark elemental damage.
Excellent video that hits most my main thoughts, and it's a shame because I find grinding and collecting all the monsters so enjoyable. I wish there was better payoff for me putting the time and effort in. I just can't really justify keeping up with the game if there's nothing to reward my investment.
Another PVP that was uh, questionable was Cyber Sleuth’s, before the expansion and balance changes. One very viable tactic for example, was to have 3 copies of UlforceVeedramon whose ability was to make the team go first (its triple battles always). Sounds normal, right? WRONG. THEY FUCKING STACK. Meaning you get 9 TURNS IN A ROW before your opponent can do anything, unless they also have 3 of that same monster. Then you swap to the 3 copies of ShineGreymonBM on your backup team (a great AOE sweeper), and still have 2 turns per monster, you use a buff that makes your next attack deal double damage, and then proceed to nuke the whole board thrice :D And other perfectly balanced stuff
Honestly finding obscenely broken shit like this is really fun if youve got a difficult postgame that warrants it. And considering DW2 is literally just a DQM game with extra steps that doesn't surprise me.
@@MoosebonesIt do be hella fun to pull off. If you want to play similar, more niche kinda games competitively, the good thing is that most competitive servers have some rules to limit this kinda thing. But for the poor rando online? Yeah have fun lol
@@findalfin3243 big fan of monster sanctuary (esp its pvp) and cassette beasts bc the combos you can come up with feel just like, god level. Sanctuary is a pretty good example of extremely high power level done right in pvp
I do think that people are right on the mark that DMQ tends to be made as a single player game primarily, with the multiplayer as a side note. Even IF each game has a scene for some time in Japan. I believe even Monster Hunter Stories is similar, I don't think it's balanced well at all
You're thinking of Joker 3, mate. The Monsters Joker trilogy is a different subseries of Monsters that's set in its own contemporary setting (as opposed to the usual fantasy one).
![Jell Brothers (or The Other Fernando) [Monster Rancher Nuzlocke Season 2 Episode 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VM0AyA7ZDx8/mqdefault.jpg)
![Jell Brothers (or The Other Fernando) [Monster Rancher Nuzlocke Season 2 Episode 3]](/img/tr.png)
A lot about Dragon Quest makes a lot more sense when you remember that the main man behind the gameplay is a massive gambling addict.
That makes sense
if we could set up a discord server and form a community like pokemon showdown where reasonable rules and bans are put in place i think the pvp could be lots of fun
@@cmdrray7210So could peeling onions
27:33
heads up folks, got a Landorus-T jumpscare
good video btw, subbed
The worst part is, when jokingly lumped in with a bunch of Dragon Quest monsters, I realize that he does kinda look like one too
@@WhimsicottFanatic actually took me a bit before seeing lando and then going: "wait a minute, he's not supposed to be here." xD
As someone with no real competitive interest in like, basically ANY game period, this video was still really fun and interesting.
Dragon Quest doesn't really get in-depth videos like these really breaking down mechanics, and that's doubly so for spin-offs like Monsters which are even more niche.
It's really fun just hearing someone talk about DQ in such a way because it just never happens, even if this particular topic wasn't exactly singing praises.
I would love to see you cover the Monster Hunter Stories games, both in general and for their PVP. Granted I think Stories 2 is pretty dead at this point and the ports of Stories 1 I don't imagine being too big PVP-wise. But still, seeing you branch out to other Monster Collection games besides Monster Rancher would just be so fascinating given your more competitive and analytical view of mechanics.
A deep dive into lesser known games like Monster Sanctuary or Jade Cocoon 2 would be sick, but I imagine it would be a lot of work.
@@ShoTV Jade Cocoon 2 is so good.
@@ShoTV monster sanctuary pvp is very wild. I really enjoyed it tbh
How about a deep dive into creating eldritch horrors in Jade Cocoon 1. I could write a novel about this
Is there SMT pvp? It would definitely suck but the general system could be used with different stats
This is always interesting, since this game always felt like was designed for a single player experience. By that I mean the mechanics make sense for boss fights, regular enemies ect, but quickly fall apart the moment you try to force them in a competitive situation.
In a lot of ways it's like the opposite of a lot of modern pokemon games, where the games are clearly set up for doubles competitive in mind and doesn't even account for single player content all that much.
Honestly, for me going back and playing the colosseum and XD games really pushes that point home since I used mons that are typically bad for a normal playthrough (looking at you magcargo) but the format allowed them to actually shine. It just makes me wish the new game would actually have the option to do more since modern pokemon feels terrified of doing something that pushes the envelope
This is actually the exact problem Palworld mentioned facing when trying to add PvP. You can't just take a single player game and then add competitive which is clearly what they did with DQM3. PvP has to be intentionally crafted. Even in games where it gives off an impression of being less hand crafted like Dark Souls, it's still completely separate as an entity from the main game experience and can evolve on its own accord.
@@coopyrbrown3031I love those games so much.
If you think Pokemon was designed for PVP you are wrong
@@brianstanley1568nah, pommel was designed with multiplayer in mind from the beginning
I don't know much about this game, but I like your cute-ass piggy.
My conclusion to having fun with DQM3 past the end of the game is: Im just gonna replay the story with self imposed challenges. The Multiplayer seemed so cool at first, but weeks and months of realizing nothing mattered in your discord broke me and everyone else trying.
Now I just want to beat the game with a team of Artisan Skeletons
it's funny, even on my very first playthrough with like, zero knowledge of how the game worked i was able to throw together a team that rolled the entire game. Would like to try it again with more restrictions to see what it's like.
Nah, the editing, writing, argument structure and annunciation are WAY too clean for this to a be a 5k view vid.
Commenting for the algorithm, you're on the way up
All I can do is make stuff I'm proud of and hope other people like it. Thanks for the kind words!
3 days later, and the view count has multiplied 5 times.
The M3 of DQM3 stands for Metalner 3. Surely this is the fabled Rancher Rundown Metalner 3
I've never seen this guy, but I think he should talk about Magcargo.
That bass line awakened core memories from me, listening to Streetlight Manifesto on a Walkman in high school. So thanks for that....
I originally had something much more technical planned for the whole bass bit but i just couldnt get it tight enough so i fell onto an old classic instead.
As a big fan of DQM who never really touched the PvP side of things, this was a very interesting watch.
It's odd how many mechanics were omitted in this game, between 3+ slot monsters who could attack the entire enemy team with their basic attacks, tension which let you build up power over time, or skills clashing if two opposing monsters used the same attack causing them to cancel each other out.
Also more utility moves like Magic Barrier to reduce incoming magic damage or Unnatural Order which is this series' version of Trick Room.
DQM3 is a very fun game though and I'm still REALLY glad it got localized and gets some recognition, this series has not seen an english release in 10+ years. Loved the vid.
This might have been one of my favorite videos thus far. There's something about the way you tie everything together that I can easily get behind, yet would never be able to recreate. You're eloquent yet stick to the adage of brevity is the soul of wit. This is out of left field, but I would love to pick your brain to see how the process of script writing goes for you, it's just a level of smoothness that I would love to learn myself, especially now that I'm getting my foot on the door of an industry that requires it.
With that out of the way, it's a tragedy how little every action seems to mean in PvP for The Dark Prince. I suck at Pokemon, yet I can see how you can make the most out of the (sometimes incredibly unnnecessary) level of RNG. In this game, it feels like probability is more of an afterthought. For example, watching your team lose because they randomly swang for 4 huge AoE spells instead of the usual 2 or whatever, just feels wrong. Besides, watching the same strategy play out as if every opponent is the same, since there's little to no player expression, makes it seem like everything's a blur, as if you're stuck on a pointless loop.
I'm going to be trying out Joker 1 this week, so here's hoping people weren't kidding about it being one of the most reasonable in terms of viability, even if I never end up playing Wifi battles. PS: Sorry for the essay!
Hey thanks for the kind words. I'm still learning and have lots to improve on but here's my process:
For scripting: the thesis idea usually comes to me first before I even start writing anything. I don't really make stuff just for the sake of making stuff; if the idea isn't there then I don't bother. Editing is too time consuming if I don't think what I'm trying to say is interesting. I usually just make a short outline of what I want to talk about in the video. For this one I had just been in a real self improvement mindset after buying the bass and that's what fueled a lot of the narrative.
When you're writing the script *and* making the video it's a lot of work but it also helps a lot with editing for pace and timing. I cut about 10 minutes of script simply because it wasn't interesting enough to animate or find footage for. Self-editing for the purposes of scripting is very difficult to do quickly since it can feel like every little bit is important and good, but when you're under the gun to get something done in a timeframe it changes your whole perspective on what's important and what doesn't matter that much.
As far as through-line and narrative structure is concerned: you and everyone else who has said something similar is kind to say what you did but I feel like I'm still pretty weak in this aspect. I think it's just that so much of youtube is like, legitimately low effort and expendable that putting in some narrative effort - even if it's not very good - stands out a lot. I also think it's possible to get too wrapped up in your own narrative and try to make this great opus when it doesn't need to be that at all. I just try to make videos that are fun to watch more than once.
@@Moosebones Thank you for taking the time to reply, Nash! This was genuinely enlightening. I think you're a little hard on yourself, but I'm glad to hear you're still looking to improve on your themeing/plot. On a side note, your use of reincorporation (very prevalent on other video essays you have made) is the cherry on top for me.
But anyway, as always, keep up the good work! It's not like I intend to stop watching your videos anytime soon!
Ngl I love hearing the horror stories from DQM3 comp in the discord and this video is exactly that vibe concentrated for half an hour
Seeing the Gamepro 5.0 score face unlocked the memories of days looking at those for Sega Genesis codes and tricks.
This kinda reminds me of why I like lower tiers of Pokemon competitive so much more than the highest tier. I think throwing a bunch of weirdos together and trying to make something cohesive out of them is so much more fun and interesting than a bunch of high-BST units who are all strong for very obvious reasons. You end up using gimmick pokemon and early game chaff in a way you probably won't even do in the singleplayer mode! Its wonderful, and its especially fun to play with friends who don't know much about competitive pokemon.
I think I played more gen 5 and 6 PU than literally any other competitive game/meta in my life.
Dragon Quest Monsters was never about the competitive side, they were always fun single player games, where the challenge was in unlocking all the secret monsters through their various combinations. I think they are fine as they are, and should continue to focus on their strong suit.
The original two Dragon Warrior Monsters games for the game boy are easily some of my favorite video games of all time. I go back to them constantly. The remakes don't capture the same magic, even if they are good on their own.
Its actually about how many pigs you can put on the same team
@@Moosebones this's why Joker 3: Pro is the GOAT. 4 Pigchamps.
At that point, why even have a PVP mode?
@@felixdaniels37 them adding pvp is fine bc people will want to play vs each other, the issues mostly stem from how the game functions in conjunction with a ranking system (i didnt even mention how it has the world's worst lobby system and friend battles setup because i totally forgot it even existed)
@Burger_pants idk what youre talking about lol. I think i lost one fight total in the entire game on hard, doesnt need pro strats to beat.
25:25 I don’t know if it’s intentional, but the funny thing about this is that Gen 1 competitive is almost exactly this scenario. Hyper Beam Tauros is one of the best Pokemon in Gen 1, partially because it doesn’t have to worry about a recharge turn* (when it gets a kill) and because normal moves are unresisted* (except for the only two good ones, Rhydon and Gengar). The metagame is much better than DQM3 though, mostly due to the environment. Unlike this game, Gen 1 is very skill-based
I went to a ton of gen 1 events when the game was new. Lvl 55 Tauros was the god mon.
I was watching the stream where you were talking about this was a video you're proud of and I think I'd heavily agree that I can tell you took time to really polish this one up with a fun visual style. Great work on the video. I loved the paper and pencil text and all those fun little details!
Interesting content? Explained in an entertaining fashion? Cute monster pics? SHUMA GORATH THEME? Easiest sub of my life.
Dude, you kicked up the notch on the editing front. So many good visuals and animations. You've really been improving, it's awesome to see. Keep on keeping on!
thoroughly enjoy pig with hat walk cycle
As someone who's trying his best to make his own creature collector rpg with a multiplayer mechanic, this vid was a nice reminder.
really only matters if your lil guys are cool
@@Moosebones I think they are. Fingers crossed. Lol
Got randomly suggested this and i love the humor, sketchy art style for parts, the analogies really helped me understand some parts i didnt really have context for, since i dont really pay competitive games, but your content has alot of care put into it, and is very entertaining to watch! one of the few channels i just instantly subscribed to!
Great video! Loved the production value and completely agree with how you summarized all the problems with DQM3’s competitive battles. You alluded to this, but I think balancing the game so that you can use any monster you want (in the sense that stat caps are around the same for every monster) really hurts competitive. Even though every monster has its own identity and niche competitively, they’re just too powerful. I prefer how it was in older games (Like Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2) where competitive play was based on tiers similar to competitive pokemon showdown. In the lower tiers, and monsters of lower ranks had much lower stat caps that monsters with high ranks. It made fusing high ranking monsters feel extra special since they were definitely better. But the tiers of competitive were really interesting too. You could play on a lower tier with high level, low rank monsters, or you could have a higher rank monster with a super low level to qualify or “sneak” into the tier. This gave tons of variety in strategies with each tier, and gave players a chance to succeed by still using their favorites and not forced to fight the strongest strategies in the meta overall.
I watched this then checked your subscriber count. This literally feels like a 500k sub channel. Amazing job man, keep it up
I get this a lot LOL. Someone gotta tell yt theyre slacking showing my vids to ppl smh. Thanks for the encouragement!
Loved that just as you said 8:15 I got an ad for a random gacha game that I'm sure fills all those same prerequisites
... out of curiosity, have you ever played gen 1 competitive? because you just described more or less how gen 1 H.Beam works. Due to a glitch, if you KO the opponent pokemon with hyper beam... you don't trigger the recharge.
Yeah i played a lot of gen1 comp back in the late 90s. You couldn't use hyper beam *every* turn tho, you werent scoing constant ohko's with tauros, it just had a reward for being the finishing blow.
Damn the Editing is so good, I love it when the monsters apear as a moving drawing next to your explanation of what you are currently talking about!
I got turned off by the pvp grind, fascinating to know this is what would've awaited me on the other end lol
Aight now you got me with the Panzer Dragoon music; you gotta stop pandering specifically to me only
Took me Nearly 80s Hours to beat all Single Player Content in this game,Tried multiplayer lost 5 times in a row this video expains why. Like they is not even any Dungeons after story in this game and not like any wild rank a or higher monsters anywhere to catch or battle outside Ranked online either.Thats like 30% of Monsters in the whole game you never see ouside of Online.
This is first DQ game to ever have Paid DLC too. Yet they would not let people in West Play 3DS games in series which had more features/monster than this game .
To be completely fair no story mode team is going to stand a chance in pvp but i agree with everything else you've said here.
7:24 there I am Gary :O Really good video, I enjoyed it a lot! I'm thinking about playing DQM3 pvp again because of this video which is kinda ironic lol
Also, I love how you'v been using your own drawings to add on to the art, that you started way back when on one of the Rancher Rundowns, I think it was Phoenix? Either way, it adds a lovely touch of personality, and it feels homely.
Zilla was the first one, i inherited a tablet and stylus around that point and figured it'd be a fun way to add flavour to the videos
Absolutely fantastic video and one of your best yet. Love your MR stuff, but you talking competitive games and competitiveness in general can be even better.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I know nothing about monster rancher, dqm, or your channel. This video earned my sub.
I could listen to you rant about games I don't play for hours.
This video reminded me that I forgot to even finish the main game. Great insight though, was worth the watch.
I really appreciate this in-depth explanation. I adore Dragon Quest Monsters and was looking forward to this installment for years. It is really disappointing that its competitive format does not reward much skill.
Would you ever be interested in dissecting the meta of Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 3 Pro on the 3DS? I tried watching alot of Japanese footage matches and it looked it had alot of team variety but thanks to what I know now from this video, I really hope that was not the same case of being just a gambling game.
As for me, my personal favorite monsters in the game are guys like Jargon, Jailcat, Cruelcumber, Pteranodon and Queen Slime to name a few.
I think you should pick up the game if you like dqm. The teambuilding is really fun, it just doesn't shine in pvp
@@MoosebonesI already did. I bought it day 1 and love it to pieces. I just haven't gotten into the pvp side.
Great video, and subbed! Fuckin hilarious. One small piece of advice though, your music is overmixed by a bit. Not much, but it competes with your voice a little! If you care, try lowering it by about 10%. Really happy to see someone enjoying bass, too :)
Yeah a few of the songs are a bit too loud because of heavy dynamic shifts in the music i didn't really adjust for. Thanks for the criticism.
@@Moosebones idk what ur using to edit ur videos but if u slap a limiter or a normalizer on that bitch itll solve that little issue
never has a video about the problems of a game's pvp system enticed me more to play the game and get into its pvp. I have the demo on the switch.
also! in the ultra crafty traits section, the song that you played unlocked a memory of absolutely loving it and going nuts when I heard it. what's it from, is it a kirby song?
Yoshi's wooly world, and yeah I had fun with the pvp until I tried to break it and realized what you see is what you get. Still worth experiencing for yourself tho imo.
u can do anything...
this is moosebones
and welcome to you, who has come to moosebones
anything is possible...
Basically: The strategy is entirely in selecting and raising the team, not the actual fight.
But the actual fight is what you do in PvP.
Simple Question, why 3?
To my Knowledge there were 6 Installments before this? Do Caravan Heart and Joker 1-3 do not count for some reason?
That aside the piggys are so adorable I had to show them off to my freinds to, when I first encountered them
This is just what its called in japan, idk why
@@Moosebones Weird. Thanks for answering. I really liked your DQM Content, so I prolly should check out the Monster Rancher Videos as well.
Awesome video with seriously amazing edits and musical choice 👌 Love watching these even though I have ZERO experience with most of the games you mention
Thanks!
This makes me wonder what the competitive scene looks like/would look like in World of Final Fantasy. 🤔
Is that the bass line from Catch 22's Walking Away???? I did such a double take, that's so cool! ❤ Never heard of the game before but you've earned the sub for sure😉
Wait, you mean it's all degeneracy?
Monster tamer genre: Always has been.
What's the music at like 1:50 from?
Free Duel from Yu Gi Oh Forbidden Memories
I love existing in the weird niche where I recognize and can name every new song that goes on in the background.
G Theme in 2024? I don't believe the quality of taste.
usually i pick background music based on the theme of the video but considering the theme of this video is "it kinda sucks lol" I just played the hits
Man this video was so great watching! I left DQM few month ago cause I got no more time to play it but man, I feel you in every way
I will connect back my switch to build a tentacles party and have so much fun :DDD
Sweet vid moosey b, glad to have been there during the streams too!
Making another comment to talk about the Sparkling stuff at 12:14
The newest update at the time of writing this comment (1.0.6) added a bunch of new items that you can get from Fizzy in her rotating shop that lets you apply a specific sparkle to any monster. It's pretty pricey at 100k gold but I guess this is the price you pay to not deal with more RNG.
Speaking of RNG, they've made it so that using a sparkling monster during a fusion yields a higher chance of creating a sparkling monster, so there's that too I guess. And you can actually see which stat was upgraded too now.
They also let you check your monster's Size value now and added items to change it so you can make giants more consistently.
Yeah the new patch changes a lot of stuff for the better. It's still not enough but every change they've made (except the personal grudge nerf) has been a net gain for a better competitive experience, so there's still hope I suppose.
Honestly compared to the older games, this actually seems *more* competitively designed; monsters all have very particular niches, even early game stuff, whereas stuff is more generically archetypal in the others, aside from frenzy state specifically, it's just the damage values are somewhat out of whack atm.
Honestly the only dqm game that felt designed with competitive intent aside from this one is Terry's Wonderland 3D, and it actually almost comes as a detriment to the single player experience.
Sure but precision in developing niches - while interesting and appreciated - doesn't mean a lot in a game with frenzied state.
Considerning there we "Professional" re-releases of DQM games n Japan I don't think its the first one
No game with day 1 DLC should ever be bought. Of the many, many, MANY cancerous polyps that have grown on the ass of the video game industry, it is the most egregious.
As someone who plays competitive Pokemon, the entire Spiked Hare segment had my jaw on the floor.
honestly some proper balance patches would fix the pvp and make it super fun. like for example
1. no "fight" command u have to choose ur attacks aside from additional turns.
2. cc immunity for a turn after a hard stun etc
3. not being able to spamm the same ability over and over with additional actions.
4. adding anti heal abilities, aswell as having the counter abilities to cc properly work.
Sure the pvp might be atrocious but pushing it to its extremes and discussing it is fascinating so I think the trade-off is worth it
Just ordered it tonight to scratch the itch for DQ3 HD2D. Any chance they patched or worked on anything by now?? The auto battler aspect sounds interesting and fun.
They did a ton of patches to the game over the first few months. Some of the issues I have with the game are fixed and some have been made more extreme lol. Still a great game, def worth playing for yourself.
I refused to buy the DLC and basically completed the entire monster pedia by myself. Though for the Demon race, even though I have all of them that are listed, it still won't give me the 100%. I have no idea what to do or if it is locked behind DLC
Just discovered your channel..
I'm a big fan of the DQM serie so that's how I encountered your video, and, this video is wonderful !
Good luck for the future, but from now on, I'll be watching your content ! ✨
YESS! This video of random information and knowledge-- about I game I don't play-- shall FUEL ME!
I would like it way more if they focused on PVE and there was Co-Op gameplay mixing your monster team with a friend. More end game stuff. Endless strong random dungeons. I hate how they removed +99 system they should of expanded it to +9999 and the higher gives more bonuses. They also should of made stat caps way higher for PVM mode and all monsters able to hit max stats. So you can play a long time just for fun with friends.
I love games that have PVP when they really dont need it or are not really designed around it
An incredibly well put together video essay. A delightful deep dive into a tiny pool of monster hunting Insanity
Comeback mechanics in competitive games reminds me how on dota2 they introduced rubberband mechanics, pushing games past 1 hr. As a viewer it was somehow good cause hey games are unpredictable, they throw more money at the game so valve is happy, but man did players hate it so much. Professional or not, games felt that they dragged on until on team makes a mistake and then one team wins
Hey, I made it in the video! My comment at 16:31. Look ma, Im famous!
I loved the analysis style videos you make. Keep em coming.
Fellow Bass man
i've rewatched this video over 3 times- so good! it's a shame pvp was so atrocious that the game died, i really liked watching you theory craft, team build and pvp (despite the grief it caused you)
do a review of dragon quest heroes rocket slime for the ds
5:53 have you tried smt?
I know nothing about this game I just wanted something in the background while I cooked and cleaned. Anywaysgreat commentary was able to follow along without watching most of the video. You've also got a great voice and cadence for this style of content. Cheers boss
Try the DQM Joker series. Those games are actually harder than the dark prince. And honestly have better world building
I hear the others are better, but I feel like DQM1 is. Just not good. I tried so much to play it, the balance felt horrible, it was VERY slow feeling.
I think DQMJ3 is the best one. Sad that it's japan exclusive tho.
@@brianstanley1568 there is eng patch and u can play it on citra so he can still try! :)
@@brianstanley1568 Joker 3 has a partial English patch, more complete than Joker 2 Pro (which got c&d'd), and more than enough to play through the entire game. It's all yours if you can find the last edition of Citra.
Careful though, the game CHUGS in certain areas, but it's manageable. Also don't change the clock or you miss out on Metal Menagerie 2: Gold Edition. But you'll have infinite access to the original if you do fuck it up.
Besides the quickly matchs I never tried battle others cuz I just wanna play with my faves little guys on the main game. But I didn't imagined competitive was so broken
Android version has the DLC but the multiplayer part is only vs people teams controled by the bot.
One must Fall footage let's fucking GOOOO!
This video is six months old and I don't even own TDP...
...but having played through most of DQ11 last month: sham hatwitch (and co.) gang rise up
Subscribed! Oh, and the PC port removed multiplayer!😂
They basically realized it was unfixable and most likely got enough negative feed back to just remove it altogether!😅
They tried pretty hard to fix it with a lot of meaningful patches (some for better some for worse) but yeah if the goal was for it to be competitive it just wasn't going to work. As a goofy autobattler without much player involvement it's still fun tho.
@Moosebones I trust your judgement, looking forward to playing on PC tonight!
so I played the gacha dragon quest tact for a while when it was available in english, and I'm just extremely happy to see that damselfly is an adorable little menace in this game too
This game is super grinding I'm gonna be playing dragon quest the dark prince for the next couple of months recuiting and max leveling my team.
DQM3 never claimed to be anything other than a single player RPG with the "Play against your friends!" part being a no-effort gimmick not meant for serious thought.
Man, kind of sounds like the final tie-breaker coinflip should have just been the first tie-breaker.
Just to give you another random chance to randomly win the game.
Listen, lemme just run my old Dragon Quest Monsters 1 and 2 crew of metal dragon + two other ridiculous demon lords and I'll be a happy man.
I'm still currently finishing the main story and yet I already expect online battles to be absolute bonkers, "competitively" or not.
@@Nando75549 the game has such an insane power level. So much stuff is fundamentally broken and that makes it really fun in a casual sense.
@@Moosebones
I love the game cause of that.
Still hope it gets an expansion at some point.
That bassline sent me back to my childhood for a second, have to relisten to Keasbey Nights again.
Fun video, I just started playing the game and would like more videos like this
Wait a second! Are you the smash player moosebones!?
that's me
@@Moosebones I used to watch a lot of your Bowser Jr. This video was incredible fantastic job all around!
@@masterofdel damn that feels like a lifetime ago lmao
Thanks for watching!
Is that fuckin walking away by catch 22 or does it just sound really similar?
If you like games like this or Monster Rancher, might I suggest Dragon Seeds on PS1?
I've played a little of dragon seed but I barely remember anything about it. Might need to play it again.
@@Moosebones It's an absolute gem of a game, despite being quite simple. It made up a good portion of my childhood.
There’s that one dq ds game with only 5 monsters and 1-2 attacks each
5:50 get this guy a shin megami tensei game immediately
Stun is a very busted debuff in DQM. I can heavily agree with that since you can get AOE based stuns earily that are ridiculous at higher levels. Most terrifying spell that has literally high damage, and not many monsters have resistance would be Black Breath and Grim Breath. Just boost wisdom status and those attacks do absurd amounts of damage. Even if the opponent has resistance to dark elemental damage.
Breath attacks dont scale with wisdom, they're based on level and have their own maximum damage cap.
If someday i get to play this game ,i will collect every single slime. Great video
Excellent video that hits most my main thoughts, and it's a shame because I find grinding and collecting all the monsters so enjoyable. I wish there was better payoff for me putting the time and effort in. I just can't really justify keeping up with the game if there's nothing to reward my investment.
You know Landorus isn't in DQM right?
Another PVP that was uh, questionable was Cyber Sleuth’s, before the expansion and balance changes. One very viable tactic for example, was to have 3 copies of UlforceVeedramon whose ability was to make the team go first (its triple battles always). Sounds normal, right? WRONG. THEY FUCKING STACK. Meaning you get 9 TURNS IN A ROW before your opponent can do anything, unless they also have 3 of that same monster. Then you swap to the 3 copies of ShineGreymonBM on your backup team (a great AOE sweeper), and still have 2 turns per monster, you use a buff that makes your next attack deal double damage, and then proceed to nuke the whole board thrice :D
And other perfectly balanced stuff
Honestly finding obscenely broken shit like this is really fun if youve got a difficult postgame that warrants it. And considering DW2 is literally just a DQM game with extra steps that doesn't surprise me.
@@MoosebonesIt do be hella fun to pull off. If you want to play similar, more niche kinda games competitively, the good thing is that most competitive servers have some rules to limit this kinda thing. But for the poor rando online? Yeah have fun lol
@@findalfin3243 big fan of monster sanctuary (esp its pvp) and cassette beasts bc the combos you can come up with feel just like, god level. Sanctuary is a pretty good example of extremely high power level done right in pvp
The worst case of this I saw in a video once was this strat but they also had texture blow
@@dknotthekong at least you can counter status with equipped items, but yeah that sounds obnoxious
I do think that people are right on the mark that DMQ tends to be made as a single player game primarily, with the multiplayer as a side note. Even IF each game has a scene for some time in Japan. I believe even Monster Hunter Stories is similar, I don't think it's balanced well at all
The drawings make this video go from a 9 to a 10. It's so professionally done!
Ctfu @ 2:55
I was not expecting it to last so long. 🤣
It was a long walk home
Wish there was a music list
Yeah my b i never think about it until after the fact. I'll add one to the description
This is technically DQM4. The real DQM3 was a Japanese only 3DS game, that does have a translation patch.
The game is called dqm3 in Japan, idk why everyone wants to debate this lol
You're thinking of Joker 3, mate. The Monsters Joker trilogy is a different subseries of Monsters that's set in its own contemporary setting (as opposed to the usual fantasy one).