Carlos here, I’m the guy on the video. The craziest part is that I even sent a letter to Marcus (an offer with my lawyer which I agreed to) telling him I’d personally pay up to $20,000 per year for 2 years so upwards of $40,000 to help him go after the dealership. He rejected it and took matters into his own hands. There is a hearing next week where the car is being taken away from him and being brought back to Texas. I tried so hard to reason to him but he is in denial and stubborn. We all know what the end result will be but this guy just makes bad calls after bad calls to where his own lawyer dropped marcus from what I heard for how dumb he was being. The judge even got mad at him and told him to stop playing “lawyer” and damn nearly caught him lying a few times. Judge was furious at Marcus…. I can share this cause it’s all public. Docs and all
I saw this play out on facebook but did not have any context. This situation is crazier than i could have expected, sending wisdom and positivity to ensure you come out on top in this situation.
I agree it appears Marcus broke the law when re-taking the car after it was legally sold. I wish Carlos the best of luck, seems like a great guy. The lawyers are the only winners.
@@christschool - He did it. Repo the car. If only Buyer's refused to pay until the Dealer had the title in-hand, 99% of these matters wouldn't exist. Consignor's should always refuse to produce the title until they've been paid.
Wow! There really is TWO SIDES to every story. Now I feel stupid for what I thought after watching the first video. Thanks for this interview as it opened my eyes. The buyer is definitely getting that car back without doubt. I just want to know why Marcus thought anything he did was a good idea? Dude is screwed and he can only blame himself.
I feel for Marcus but the reality is that what Carlos is saying is true. It’s plain and simple if you follow the law. Carlos will easily end up with the title and the car while Marcus will only end up with criminal charges for making dumb decision…marcus is totally screwed and a child
@@normalguysupercar I',m no expert in US law, but here's a take on it. Carlos has paid for the car, so in that sense, the purchase is done. He just needs a title. What is going on here, is that Alpha isn't paying Marcus. I guessing the court will ask Marcus to hand over the title as he gave Alpha permission to sell the car and agreed to this deal. So in some ways you could say that this issue is really between Marcus and Alpha. In short, the deal is not the problem so to speak, the question is what happened to the money Marcus was supposed to have been given.
Marcus straight up lied and signed in oath the car was stolen they’ll be using that against him and he will end up with a hefty fine. He legally can’t report it stolen he should have gotten a lawyer from day.
I feel bad for the buyer. He bought a car in good faith. He paid for it in full. He not only lost his money, but he will have years of aggravation paying lawyers and court cases and possible mediation. There is no justice in these things. These videos have been super instructive. I even had a bad experience with a dealership. I bought a new car I had wanted at a great price. Factory clear out special for the last of a model run. I wanted a particular color. No problem, we don't have one here but we can easily find one on another lot. They took my deposit and the ownership for the car I was trading. A few days later, they call me and say the only one available is 1500 miles away and so they need more money. I said, no... I have a contract and you need to make delivery. This went on for a couple of months. They wanted out of the deal. Only when I assured them I planned to sue and tell my story to a newspaper did they give in and make arrangements to get the car. Another month and we complete the sale. All that time they had my money and the title to my car. It really turned me off doing car deals with anyone.
Charlie is a great man, I have the utmost respect for him. I hope he gets his car back soon. Thank you NormalGuy for giving him a time on your platform to here his side. I'm also grateful to have met both of you! \m/
Unfortunately for Marcus, the law sides with Carlos. Marcus handed the keys over to the dealer and made an agreement with the dealer. Carlos purchased the car in good faith from the dealer and completed the transaction. The crime occurred between Marcus and the dealer, so it’s Carlos’ car. Case law backs up Carlos. Sucks for Marcus and it’s a crappy situation.
Having bought and sold more than 300 cars, motorcycles over the last 40+ years, and having seen so many friends and family members get scammed, (I am not a Dealer, just buy, fix, enjoy and then flip them.) I learned that you never ever give cash to a seller unless that seller can deliver the signed title/pink slip to you on the spot. Of course if there is a lien on the car or motorcycle then don’t pay cash, use financing from your trusted bank or credit union, to avoid the consignment traps and get scammed by a dishonest seller or Dealer. Then once the transaction is completed wire the cash payoff to your trusted bank or credit union, and they will send you the title/pink slip.
I'd be looking at a test that can tell you if sugar was put into the gas tank. Marcus sounds like the type of guy that if he can't be made whole then no one will be whole either.
Marcus just made things worse for himself. Showed this to my father in law who is a lawyer for these exact problems. He said it may seem complicated but it’s simpler then it appears. Carlos bought the car in good faith and the buyer has nothing to do with it in this situation. Idk how marcus can sleep at night at this point. Huge mistake. Once this is settles for Carlos , Marcus has hell coming to him in criminal charges and punitive damages.
Once this goes to court and the documents are examined by the judge the fact that it was reported stolen will be an issue. As has been mentioned since Marcus assigned a dealer to sell the car on consignment Carlos is now the legal owner as he purchased the car in good faith and it appears he paid in full. I get how Marcus is frustrated, I do but taking matter in his own hands made it much worse for him. Now instead of being out the car and money he will spend more in attorney fees, likely still be out the money and the car, and have other penalties and fines if not jail time. I personally wouldn’t consign a car, and likely wouldn’t buy a consignment car at least knowingly. There have been too many consignment dealers that have scammed too many people out of cars and money.
Marcus should be charged with theft. Bad situation but can be held liable for all damages too. The repo company is on the hook also. They have insurance if they are legitimate. Errors and omissions. You may not get the car but you will get money and probably do quite well. I would totally charge him with theft if not satisfied. Felony theft.
marcus will likely end up charged with theft and end up paying up a lot more money. wouldn't be surprised if he ends up paying up 3x damages the value of the car
This situation sounds pretty bad for both parties but the seller of the car is 100% in the wrong with the actions he’s taken to illegally repossess the car . He consigned the car with the dealer and the buyer legally purchased the car, period. The buyer did nothing wrong and the fact that anyone is defending the actions of the seller is mind boggling.
I had to sue a large Audi dealer to get a title. Bought a one year old Denali from them. Sent them a cashiers check and they shipped it from Texas to Cali. After 30 days no title, 45 days threatened to sue, 60 days the dealership had actually been sold now dealing with a new group of people. It was almost impossible to hire an attorney, they seem to hate dealing with this kind of mess. In the end the dealer sent me a title. The new general manager admitted that the previous owner took the car in on trade and it ended up having a huge lien on it. In the end they paid the lien and gave me my title, but it was a stressful mess.
Is it possible if you sell cars on consignment that when the final transaction is completed, that both parties are there and title and money are handed over and the dealer gets his %?
Heres my take...Marcus and Alfa both Conspired to rip off the buyer. They are putting all the resposibility and deficit on the buyer, it should be both buyer and seller against the Dealer.
Marcus received no money for his car so I don't see how he conspired with Alfa. The incentive is for buyers and consigners to conspire, the consigner can sell the car at a too good to be true deal and the buyer can know as long as he has a bill of sale his state will eventually give them a title and grant them the car. I am not saying this happened here. But Bobby Khan certainly did do that and several buyers essentially got impossibly cheap exotics knowing that he was desperate and NJ would ultimately honor the bill of sale and issue a title.
It's actually quite simple after hearing this: Carlos is stand up guy and Marcus is not. I don't know either guy personally but the facts here are very clear.
Good grief! I had my hesitations about Marcus before, but now he has stooped to complete asshole status. Carlos was missing a title, Marcus needing payment. They could have joined forces, instead Marcus chose to become a criminal himself.
Always take the title when you buy the car. If there is a lien, you need to work directly with the lien holder so that the lien holder is paid directly by you and the title released to you. If you follow those rules as a buyer, this situation should never happen to you.
I think this can only be resolved in court since both parties have a financial interest in this car. And neither guy is just going to simply give the other guy the car and title. Carlos is smart in getting a lawyer involved since this is a civil matter and is typically played out in court. To say that "he did this, she did that," goes nowhere until its in front of a judge. It's fun to make jokes about lawyers, until you actually need one. And neither party will likely be entirely happy and satisfied about the final outcome...
The entire title/auto registration system in the USA needs to change. The problems exist because Americans are so relaxed about receiving titles for used cars. Shady Dealers use this gray "relaxed" period to hang onto the Buyer's money for as long as possible, when the car is consigned or there's a lien to pay out. When you pay the dealer and take the car, if the dealer says "we'll mail you the title", you really have nothing. The thought process needs to change. What happens when you tell the dealer, "call me when you have the title in-hand and I'll bring (or wire) payment and pick up the car"? You'll quickly find out if the dealer's broke. I usually ask for copies of both sides of the title, in advance. Sure, the Bank's don't like to move fast but it seems they will if the sale depends on it. This is essentially the way vehicle ownership is handled in Canada. There are no titles just a registration form that says who the legal owner of the car is. As a Buyer, all you need to do is make sure there is no lien on the car, if you're buying it from a private party. Lien's must be registered with the Government or they aren't binding on a Buyer. If there is a lien, you simply have a Bank draft made out to the "Lien holder the Seller". There's no title to wait for. If you're buying from a Dealer, you have zero worries. Dealers must post a million dollar bond, just to be a dealer. All dealer bonds get held by a single entity. If it turns out the dealer was shady and didn't pay off the lien on a car you just bought, you contact the bond holding entity and they take care of it.
after watching this video compared to Marcus video. Marcus definitely lied and stole the car. he has nothing to do with carlos. he needs to handle the situation with the dealership, carlos have nothing to do with it. carlos bought the car rightfully. carlos will win the case no doubt about that and Marcus will face a felony charge. Marcus cannot claim the vehicle is stolen when you are under a contract.
Having been in the auto business for over fifty years I can tell you a couple of things: 1. NEVER CONSIGN you car...2. The car is owned by the guy with the TITLE.....No matter how many law suites you file you will NOT get your money or the car. The money will evaporate when the consigner files bankruptcy (like they always do) and the car remains with the title bearer. The only people who get paid will be the lawyers.
Never consign a car? I'm guessing you're not in the exotic car business. There's nothing wrong with consignment. It just needs to be handled properly. You don't have these issues here in Europe to this extent. Not that we don't have shady dealers, but it is a lot harder to do stuff like this. In the past three years i have had five cars on consignment, and no issues what so ever. If I was in the states, I'd still do consignment, but I'd be very cautious about it.
Marcus not getting paid isnt Carlos problem. Its the dealerships problem. Its Carlos car. Marcus got screwed. Carlos did not screw him. The dealership did. Sucks for Marcus but give Carlos the car back. Its his. Marcus has a problem and that problem gets solved with the dealership
Did you watch the original video with Marcus? It's very telling looking back now. I understand the frustration, but the way he talked about Carlos in that video was as if Carlos was in on it or something. Marcus is definitely not the brightest bulb in the dark...
@@normalguysupercar it’s mind boggling that people are just raw doggin this stuff, no one would dream of doing this with a real estate transaction yet these cars cost more than a house!
Use an escrow service, money goes into escrow account, once all parties are satisfied with the deal, paperwork completed, title delivered and signed, etc... Then escrow company wires the money to the buyer and the dealership gets their cut of the deal.
Insruance companies shoildnt be on the hook for consignments . Last thing we need is rates to go up for no reason. It sucks but this is why consignments are shady
If the consigning dealer doesn't have title, the funds should go through escrow or something. Just another hand in the transaction and fee, but might be worth it.
How much is this old car worth? Sounds like more hassle than it's costing. I just bought a Vette that was on consignment at a used car dealership in Houston, TX........ I TOLD THEM I WOULD NOT BUY THE CAR (cash in hand), IF I DID NOT LEAVE WITH THE SIGNED TITLE!!!!!!!!!!! Dealer complained, but agreed! I'll take care of the transfer!
@@normalguysupercar by “he” should have checked the dealership, I meant the guy that bought the GT-500. Who knows, but basic google search can uncover a lot of shenanigans, or at least a few concerning reviews
1. As is, don’t buy or sell using consignments 2. A better situation would treat these transactions like other expensive property, eg buy title insurance through a title company who takes on the responsibility for handling the money and guaranteeing the transaction.
Marcus is in the wrong he stole the car back end of story. Marcus co signed the car Carlos did nothing wrong other than letting his gaurd up and leaving the car in a way that someone was able to steal it.
After the CNC debacle I thought "pretty risque handing over your keys and the title to CNC". I also thought the smart thing to do would be to keep your title but as this video shows, keeping your title still doesn't stop you from being robbed of your car in consignment world. Carlos = learned equitable title means hide your car in the garage. Marcus = took too many premeditated steps to steal the car back... He is just as bad as the consignment dealer. What we learned from this is you need to pass the check in one hand while you're collecting the title in the other. If there's no title on the desk don't bother buying the car.
Both parties are right to try and keep ownership of the vehicle until a judgement is made on Alphamotive and a court decides who gets what. They have both lost the same value in this transaction and the car is the place marker. Otherwise it would be fair to keep the car in lock up until a judgement is made. Alphamotive is a very stretchy company that was always putting on a smoke and mirrors show. I personally saw how they ran their business when no one was around (extremely unprofessional and bad morals). I had several business transactions with them for auto detailing and only saw a company that engaged in business with the worst intentions and selfish actions.
I was totally lost due to lack of proper context. So I stopped the video, went to the prior video in the link description and figured it out pretty quickly. Basically, you have both sides of the transaction here. Because the prior video was from 3 months ago, I completely forgot about it so that's why I was lost in the beginning. Hopefully, this isn't an early sign of dementia
Trusting dealership. Now there is a oxymoron if I ever heard one. I work for a car dealership and I would NEVER buy a car from them. You can tell dealerships are lying because their lips are moving.
Marcus was in on it with the dealership. It doesn’t add up. Even if my assumption is false the question is now up in the air. Carlos got himself a sweet lawsuit ahead 😅
As I've said before, just don't do a consignment deal. If buying used I'd have to see a free & clear title before I pay anything. There's just too many shady people out there to trust someone.
I’m failing to understand why any buyer would wire over a substantial amount of money to purchase a car without the title in their hand/bro signed over to them? Isn’t that a standard part of the paperwork? Maybe things work differently up here in Canada? Private sales here there is literally a package you buy from the DMV that has the sellers info and place to sign over ownership etc (must be provided by the seller) and dealerships the registration (what we call the title here) is signed over as part of the paperwork when purchasing and signing before you pay? Have bought both ways.
Not sure what kind of cars you buy but not even dealerships give you a title until 2-4 weeks after. And what if the car has a lien/loan? It’s really not that simple and remember they did show the title cause they had the rights. I’m also in Texas car was bought in California use common sense
He had a well founded anxiety about the car being taken, yet in the end left it vulnerable to the point that they got it? If that was me that car would have been securely locked away and hidden and not publicly driven pending the legal outcome. How could he drop the ball like that?
The car is present. So is the title. Best to sell the car AGAIN then split the proceeds. Otherwise the lawyers get it all. 50% is better than nothing...
Are there a higher number of sketchy people in the car business? Is there too much ego and testosterone involved? I guess fundamentally it must be hard to correctly buy cars while having some guy willing to pay a profit in a short time period. I remember all the exotic car "hackers" who said you could drive a lambo for free. Sure if nothing breaks on it and you do not need to spend anything on consumables. Seems like the consignment business is one big reality distortion field. If it is so easy to commit fraud there should be more consumer protections. Dan what legal changes would you suggest to prevent more people from becoming victims. its hard to watch how easily people's lifelong dreams turn into nightmares.
Oh man. Feel for both of these guys. Horrible. Wonder if the civil courts would at least provide a judgement to garnish future wages, income or assets of the scum bag dealer. 🤔 Lawyers? @stevelehto
Never, never buy a consignment from a dealer. This transaction is covered by a section on the Universal Commercial Code. If the buyer pays a fair market price and has no knowledge of any problems the dealer may have they become a Bona Fide Purchaser or Buyer In Due Course and own the vehicle. The UCC is very specific and states that if the dealer is licensed and the buyer meets certain qualifications such as buying in good faith and paying a current market price he owns the vehicle and will be able to get a title. The seller has to go after the dealer. The buyer needs an attorney who is familiar with the UCC. I have been involved in such a situation and when the original seller took the car back he was charged with theft and the car was returned to the person who bought from the dealer. Also, never consign with a dealer since they can sell the vehicle, the new owner is the legal owner and you as the seller has to go after the dealer or his Bond. You cannot go after the buyer of possibly face theft charges.
I’ve always heard that possession is 9/10 of the law. The car should have been kept in a secure location until the legal process was resolved. The most fair resolution would be to auction the car and split the proceeds 50/50.
i see NO reason to do any IMHO they should be illegal ! $ should be given directly to the owner of the car selling it in exchange for the signed notarized title and car . i have bought cars out of state.sight unseen Wells Fargo Bank agreed to act as an escrow free! once the transport driver verified the title was signed, notarized and handed to him and the car was loaded on the transport truck the $ was released deposited directly into sellers acct by my calling the bank ! seller and driver verified w/ bank before car left his driveway . any other type of sale ?Any fees or profit % can be paid directly to the dealer or agent separately by whoever is supposed to pay consignment ? they are just a recipe for disaster I have told my Heirs when I die the car is to be given to my granddaughter and no one should do any consignment if she decides to sell it so they won't ! . @@normalguysupercar
consignment ? NEVER ! WHY ? I reaLIZE YOU ARE BEING NEUTRAL sorry I blame this guy he facilitated a scam buying a car w/ out a title He should NOT have bought it ! what reasonable or prudent person would ? HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED, DEMANDED TO SEE THE TITLE it is BS ! NOT given cash w/ out being handed the title I never would ever do any deal like this ! NOONE should .
well, that is how I do business and no one gets cheated ! as long as people LET scammers scam them they will continue to get scammed . ! SIMPLE THERE IS no REASON FOR CONSIGNMENT TO EXIST , IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL AND AS A BUYER OR SELLER ? YOU ARE A FOOL IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO BUISINES W/ ONE OF THOSE CREEPS YOU CAN JUST DEMAND A CLEAN / CLEAR TITLE AT POINT OF SALE OR SAY NO SALE AND BUY ELSEWHERE ! SIMPLE @@normalguysupercar
These old cars are charming curiosities and wonderful time capsules of another era, but I grew up back then and drove them. Sadly as interesting as they are, cars from the good old days were kind of crappy by modern standards. Technology marches on. It’s particularly funny when people fondly remember how “hot” the old muscle cars were. The Car and Driver website archives all their old road tests. The original 428 powered Shelby GT500 ran the quarter mile in 15.0 seconds at 95 mph. A new Toyota RAV4 Prime compact SUV does it in 14.0 seconds at 100 mph. Not to mention trying to corner or stop those old boats. 😮
Carlos says Marcos shouldn’t have been doing business with the dealer. Gosh, maybe Carlos shouldn’t have been doing business with the dealer either. They both got screwed by the same dealer. As everyone keeps pointing out, don’t sell or buy a car unless the money, title and car are changing hands at the same location and at the same time. When I buy a car, I go to a dealer, we sit in an office while I wire the money to the dealer, they hand me the keys, the title transfer and the car. I drive away. Not, I’ll send you my car and hope you send me money for it, or I’ll send you money and hope I get a car and the title. If you want the convenience of selling or buying cars on remote consignment, caveat not just emptor. At least try to pick a dealer like Dan who has a policy of not touching the money any longer than he has, to and gives the vibe of being a “Normal Guy” rather than someone who is thinking where to get the next score to pay for the diamond Piaget watch he’s wearing.
This guy is really trying to deflect a lot of blame here. "My girlfriends mother found it, he should have done his research before consigning it, maybe he has buyers remorse" Well dude, you sent 200k to the same sketchy dealer without verifying they had the title in hand. The dealer screwed both parties equally and they need to quit whining and go after the dealer instead of playing cat and mouse with the car.
@@Deepvalue Sorry to have sounded harsh. You seem to be handling this FAR better than Marcus. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't matter which of you is right, if the dealer keeps the money and leaves you two fighting each other, neither of you will ever be happy with the outcome. I read your other comment mentioning you offered 40k in legal compensation which I think is absolutely more than fair. The one thing I haven't seen confirmed is whether or not Marcus' side of the contract stipulated he'd get the money before handing over the title? I have noticed you saying he doesn't have the legal grounds to say the dealer stole from him which implies the dealer didn't break any contractual obligations to him. Regardless of that, Marcus definately stole your car with his little impound charade. It's unfortunate things have escelated this far, as an outsider all I can do is leave snide remarks in the comments section. Good luck.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Carlos here, I’m the guy on the video. The craziest part is that I even sent a letter to Marcus (an offer with my lawyer which I agreed to) telling him I’d personally pay up to $20,000 per year for 2 years so upwards of $40,000 to help him go after the dealership. He rejected it and took matters into his own hands. There is a hearing next week where the car is being taken away from him and being brought back to Texas. I tried so hard to reason to him but he is in denial and stubborn. We all know what the end result will be but this guy just makes bad calls after bad calls to where his own lawyer dropped marcus from what I heard for how dumb he was being. The judge even got mad at him and told him to stop playing “lawyer” and damn nearly caught him lying a few times. Judge was furious at Marcus…. I can share this cause it’s all public. Docs and all
Haha I just noticed your screen name
@@normalguysupercarhehe yeah I snatched it up the moment the released these tags/usernames 😂
I'm just sorry for your poor GF, she must be devastated "hinting" you to go get that car. Don't worry, you'll fix it and/or get another :)
I saw this play out on facebook but did not have any context. This situation is crazier than i could have expected, sending wisdom and positivity to ensure you come out on top in this situation.
@@tysimonno not at all, he sort of cut it off cause it was long but there was more explanation behind it haha but no I wanted
I agree it appears Marcus broke the law when re-taking the car after it was legally sold. I wish Carlos the best of luck, seems like a great guy. The lawyers are the only winners.
It's so messed up
Yup
Marcus was ripped off, but Marcus is also behaving like a giant POS. His problem is with Alpha, NOT with the guy who bought the car.
Well to be fair, both sides problem is with Alpha. It's their responsibility to pay Marcus to get the title.
What would you do if you were Marcus?
marcus is an idiot not only will he lose the car but his actions are criminal once it settles
buyer has nothing to do with dealer @@normalguysupercar
@@christschool - He did it. Repo the car. If only Buyer's refused to pay until the Dealer had the title in-hand, 99% of these matters wouldn't exist. Consignor's should always refuse to produce the title until they've been paid.
Buyer should get the car. The issue is between the seller and his consignment dealer. Seems very simple to me.
Generally that's what the law says
Yup
the seller GETS the car if not paid.
Wow! There really is TWO SIDES to every story. Now I feel stupid for what I thought after watching the first video. Thanks for this interview as it opened my eyes. The buyer is definitely getting that car back without doubt. I just want to know why Marcus thought anything he did was a good idea? Dude is screwed and he can only blame himself.
It's hard to say.
I feel for Marcus but the reality is that what Carlos is saying is true. It’s plain and simple if you follow the law. Carlos will easily end up with the title and the car while Marcus will only end up with criminal charges for making dumb decision…marcus is totally screwed and a child
I'm curious to see how the courts will decide this
@@normalguysupercar
I',m no expert in US law, but here's a take on it.
Carlos has paid for the car, so in that sense, the purchase is done. He just needs a title. What is going on here, is that Alpha isn't paying Marcus. I guessing the court will ask Marcus to hand over the title as he gave Alpha permission to sell the car and agreed to this deal. So in some ways you could say that this issue is really between Marcus and Alpha. In short, the deal is not the problem so to speak, the question is what happened to the money Marcus was supposed to have been given.
Marcus straight up lied and signed in oath the car was stolen they’ll be using that against him and he will end up with a hefty fine. He legally can’t report it stolen he should have gotten a lawyer from day.
Correct that’s going to be brought cause he did lie and legally was not “stolen” so that’ll be used against him hard
It will be interesting to see how that all plays out in court
I feel bad for the buyer. He bought a car in good faith. He paid for it in full. He not only lost his money, but he will have years of aggravation paying lawyers and court cases and possible mediation. There is no justice in these things.
These videos have been super instructive. I even had a bad experience with a dealership. I bought a new car I had wanted at a great price. Factory clear out special for the last of a model run. I wanted a particular color. No problem, we don't have one here but we can easily find one on another lot. They took my deposit and the ownership for the car I was trading. A few days later, they call me and say the only one available is 1500 miles away and so they need more money. I said, no... I have a contract and you need to make delivery. This went on for a couple of months. They wanted out of the deal. Only when I assured them I planned to sue and tell my story to a newspaper did they give in and make arrangements to get the car. Another month and we complete the sale. All that time they had my money and the title to my car. It really turned me off doing car deals with anyone.
Glad to hear it worked out but that must have been frustrating
Charlie is a great man, I have the utmost respect for him. I hope he gets his car back soon. Thank you NormalGuy for giving him a time on your platform to here his side. I'm also grateful to have met both of you! \m/
Thanks
@@normalguysupercar You're welcome \m/
Unfortunately for Marcus, the law sides with Carlos. Marcus handed the keys over to the dealer and made an agreement with the dealer. Carlos purchased the car in good faith from the dealer and completed the transaction. The crime occurred between Marcus and the dealer, so it’s Carlos’ car. Case law backs up Carlos. Sucks for Marcus and it’s a crappy situation.
Indeed
Having bought and sold more than 300 cars, motorcycles over the last 40+ years, and having seen so many friends and family members get scammed, (I am not a Dealer, just buy, fix, enjoy and then flip them.) I learned that you never ever give cash to a seller unless that seller can deliver the signed title/pink slip to you on the spot.
Of course if there is a lien on the car or motorcycle then don’t pay cash, use financing from your trusted bank or credit union, to avoid the consignment traps and get scammed by a dishonest seller or Dealer.
Then once the transaction is completed wire the cash payoff to your trusted bank or credit union, and they will send you the title/pink slip.
Yeah I do think financing the car if there's a lien is a reasonable thing to do
Absolutely!👍👍
I'd be looking at a test that can tell you if sugar was put into the gas tank. Marcus sounds like the type of guy that if he can't be made whole then no one will be whole either.
Eh I doubt that
Marcus just made things worse for himself. Showed this to my father in law who is a lawyer for these exact problems. He said it may seem complicated but it’s simpler then it appears. Carlos bought the car in good faith and the buyer has nothing to do with it in this situation. Idk how marcus can sleep at night at this point. Huge mistake. Once this is settles for Carlos , Marcus has hell coming to him in criminal charges and punitive damages.
The only thing is the car was registered as stolen so that complicated things
@@normalguysupercarthat does not matter it means he lied
Once this goes to court and the documents are examined by the judge the fact that it was reported stolen will be an issue.
As has been mentioned since Marcus assigned a dealer to sell the car on consignment Carlos is now the legal owner as he purchased the car in good faith and it appears he paid in full.
I get how Marcus is frustrated, I do but taking matter in his own hands made it much worse for him. Now instead of being out the car and money he will spend more in attorney fees, likely still be out the money and the car, and have other penalties and fines if not jail time.
I personally wouldn’t consign a car, and likely wouldn’t buy a consignment car at least knowingly. There have been too many consignment dealers that have scammed too many people out of cars and money.
Marcus should be charged with theft. Bad situation but can be held liable for all damages too. The repo company is on the hook also. They have insurance if they are legitimate. Errors and omissions. You may not get the car but you will get money and probably do quite well. I would totally charge him with theft if not satisfied. Felony theft.
It's pretty messed up
he will be charged with gta i have no doubt
marcus will likely end up charged with theft and end up paying up a lot more money. wouldn't be surprised if he ends up paying up 3x damages the value of the car
yup how can someone be that stupid next update will be marcus lost car and facing criminal charges
bet you marcus now has a huge charge up ahead beyond the cars value. I’d be shitting my pants
This situation sounds pretty bad for both parties but the seller of the car is 100% in the wrong with the actions he’s taken to illegally repossess the car . He consigned the car with the dealer and the buyer legally purchased the car, period. The buyer did nothing wrong and the fact that anyone is defending the actions of the seller is mind boggling.
Yeah it's messed up
What is mind boggling is blaming victims, which you are doing.
Glad to see comments with common sense and knowledge
I had to sue a large Audi dealer to get a title. Bought a one year old Denali from them. Sent them a cashiers check and they shipped it from Texas to Cali. After 30 days no title, 45 days threatened to sue, 60 days the dealership had actually been sold now dealing with a new group of people. It was almost impossible to hire an attorney, they seem to hate dealing with this kind of mess. In the end the dealer sent me a title. The new general manager admitted that the previous owner took the car in on trade and it ended up having a huge lien on it. In the end they paid the lien and gave me my title, but it was a stressful mess.
That's doesn't sound fun at all
Is it possible if you sell cars on consignment that when the final transaction is completed, that both parties are there and title and money are handed over and the dealer gets his %?
In theory but many transactions take place online or over the phone.
That is possible, and I've done a deal like that.
Imagine if Anthony Farrer the TimePiece Gentleman got into selling super cars after he gets out of prison 😂
I have no idea who that is.
@@normalguysupercarhe was a watch dealer that stole like 5 million from his clients by consigning luxury watches and never paid them
Tugboat tony is probably flipping on everyone lol especially luxury bazar
The tiiimmmmmeeeeee piece gentlemen
@@normalguysupercar CNC Motors of the luxury watch world
If Marcus gave assignment to the selling dealer his claim of theft is muted.
Hope he gets some penalty for being a baby about the situation
I would like to see the consignment agreement
Yup he was never allowed to claim or use the word stolen
Heres my take...Marcus and Alfa both Conspired to rip off the buyer. They are putting all the resposibility and deficit on the buyer, it should be both buyer and seller against the Dealer.
I agree that the buyer and seller sold go after the dealer
Marcus received no money for his car so I don't see how he conspired with Alfa. The incentive is for buyers and consigners to conspire, the consigner can sell the car at a too good to be true deal and the buyer can know as long as he has a bill of sale his state will eventually give them a title and grant them the car. I am not saying this happened here. But Bobby Khan certainly did do that and several buyers essentially got impossibly cheap exotics knowing that he was desperate and NJ would ultimately honor the bill of sale and issue a title.
It's actually quite simple after hearing this: Carlos is stand up guy and Marcus is not. I don't know either guy personally but the facts here are very clear.
Eh I can see both people's perspective
Good grief!
I had my hesitations about Marcus before, but now he has stooped to complete asshole status.
Carlos was missing a title, Marcus needing payment. They could have joined forces, instead Marcus chose to become a criminal himself.
It's a cluster.
@@normalguysupercar
That doesn't even begin to describe it.
Always take the title when you buy the car. If there is a lien, you need to work directly with the lien holder so that the lien holder is paid directly by you and the title released to you. If you follow those rules as a buyer, this situation should never happen to you.
In theory
I think this can only be resolved in court since both parties have a financial interest in this car. And neither guy is just going to simply give the other guy the car and title. Carlos is smart in getting a lawyer involved since this is a civil matter and is typically played out in court. To say that "he did this, she did that," goes nowhere until its in front of a judge. It's fun to make jokes about lawyers, until you actually need one. And neither party will likely be entirely happy and satisfied about the final outcome...
It's definitely for the courts now
The entire title/auto registration system in the USA needs to change. The problems exist because Americans are so relaxed about receiving titles for used cars. Shady Dealers use this gray "relaxed" period to hang onto the Buyer's money for as long as possible, when the car is consigned or there's a lien to pay out. When you pay the dealer and take the car, if the dealer says "we'll mail you the title", you really have nothing. The thought process needs to change. What happens when you tell the dealer, "call me when you have the title in-hand and I'll bring (or wire) payment and pick up the car"? You'll quickly find out if the dealer's broke. I usually ask for copies of both sides of the title, in advance. Sure, the Bank's don't like to move fast but it seems they will if the sale depends on it.
This is essentially the way vehicle ownership is handled in Canada. There are no titles just a registration form that says who the legal owner of the car is. As a Buyer, all you need to do is make sure there is no lien on the car, if you're buying it from a private party. Lien's must be registered with the Government or they aren't binding on a Buyer. If there is a lien, you simply have a Bank draft made out to the "Lien holder the Seller". There's no title to wait for. If you're buying from a Dealer, you have zero worries. Dealers must post a million dollar bond, just to be a dealer. All dealer bonds get held by a single entity. If it turns out the dealer was shady and didn't pay off the lien on a car you just bought, you contact the bond holding entity and they take care of it.
Yeah it's a terrible and archaic system in the US
after watching this video compared to Marcus video. Marcus definitely lied and stole the car. he has nothing to do with carlos. he needs to handle the situation with the dealership, carlos have nothing to do with it. carlos bought the car rightfully. carlos will win the case no doubt about that and Marcus will face a felony charge. Marcus cannot claim the vehicle is stolen when you are under a contract.
Possibly so
Having been in the auto business for over fifty years I can tell you a couple of things: 1. NEVER CONSIGN you car...2. The car is owned by the guy with the TITLE.....No matter how many law suites you file you will NOT get your money or the car. The money will evaporate when the consigner files bankruptcy (like they always do) and the car remains with the title bearer. The only people who get paid will be the lawyers.
True on the lawyers part
Never consign a car? I'm guessing you're not in the exotic car business.
There's nothing wrong with consignment. It just needs to be handled properly.
You don't have these issues here in Europe to this extent. Not that we don't have shady dealers, but it is a lot harder to do stuff like this. In the past three years i have had five cars on consignment, and no issues what so ever.
If I was in the states, I'd still do consignment, but I'd be very cautious about it.
Dan is this the same car and Marcus you had on your channel a few months back?
Yes
@@normalguysupercar I love how you reply to every one. Best channel around you guys.
@@newenglandscenic8952 haha thank you.
Marcus not getting paid isnt Carlos problem. Its the dealerships problem. Its Carlos car. Marcus got screwed. Carlos did not screw him. The dealership did. Sucks for Marcus but give Carlos the car back. Its his. Marcus has a problem and that problem gets solved with the dealership
He will have to learn the hard way unfortunately with plenty of penalties. I tried to warn him but he is stubborn and not that smart
Yup
Did you watch the original video with Marcus? It's very telling looking back now.
I understand the frustration, but the way he talked about Carlos in that video was as if Carlos was in on it or something. Marcus is definitely not the brightest bulb in the dark...
Title goes with car on delivery
In normal situations but not always
Buying a big dollar car for cash with no title present and not even using an escrow company is freakin insane and just asking for it.
It's pretty common
@@normalguysupercar it’s mind boggling that people are just raw doggin this stuff, no one would dream of doing this with a real estate transaction yet these cars cost more than a house!
Use an escrow service, money goes into escrow account, once all parties are satisfied with the deal, paperwork completed, title delivered and signed, etc... Then escrow company wires the money to the buyer and the dealership gets their cut of the deal.
Nobody's willing to pay for that
@@normalguysupercarwould not be too much. keysavvy is just $180 between buyer and seller. They act as the dealer and escrow.
Insruance companies shoildnt be on the hook for consignments . Last thing we need is rates to go up for no reason.
It sucks but this is why consignments are shady
Eh I mean it's strange because it's not considered theft
If the consigning dealer doesn't have title, the funds should go through escrow or something. Just another hand in the transaction and fee, but might be worth it.
If there were escrow options that were cheap I think people would consider it but they are pretty damn expensive
How much is this old car worth? Sounds like more hassle than it's costing. I just bought a Vette that was on consignment at a used car dealership in Houston, TX........ I TOLD THEM I WOULD NOT BUY THE CAR (cash in hand), IF I DID NOT LEAVE WITH THE SIGNED TITLE!!!!!!!!!!! Dealer complained, but agreed! I'll take care of the transfer!
You can't do that in Texas unless you're an out of state buyer
Sounds like Marcus didn’t do his homework, but you should have as well. It sounds like there was plenty of red flags on this dealership out there
Was there?
@@normalguysupercar by “he” should have checked the dealership, I meant the guy that bought the GT-500. Who knows, but basic google search can uncover a lot of shenanigans, or at least a few concerning reviews
So much fraud...what, are you located in Fulton Country GA?
Lol
1. As is, don’t buy or sell using consignments
2. A better situation would treat these transactions like other expensive property, eg buy title insurance through a title company who takes on the responsibility for handling the money and guaranteeing the transaction.
Possibly do
Marcus is in the wrong he stole the car back end of story. Marcus co signed the car Carlos did nothing wrong other than letting his gaurd up and leaving the car in a way that someone was able to steal it.
We will see
After the CNC debacle I thought "pretty risque handing over your keys and the title to CNC".
I also thought the smart thing to do would be to keep your title but as this video shows, keeping your title still doesn't stop you from being robbed of your car in consignment world.
Carlos = learned equitable title means hide your car in the garage.
Marcus = took too many premeditated steps to steal the car back... He is just as bad as the consignment dealer.
What we learned from this is you need to pass the check in one hand while you're collecting the title in the other.
If there's no title on the desk don't bother buying the car.
Unfortunately that's not always possible. For example if there's a lien on the car.
Wouldn't the check on one of the car faqs sites reveal the lien?
And you’re no investigative journalist Dan? lol Dan Abrams😅
Never claimed to be
What was the name of the consignment Dealer?
Alphamotiv3
Both parties are right to try and keep ownership of the vehicle until a judgement is made on Alphamotive and a court decides who gets what. They have both lost the same value in this transaction and the car is the place marker. Otherwise it would be fair to keep the car in lock up until a judgement is made. Alphamotive is a very stretchy company that was always putting on a smoke and mirrors show. I personally saw how they ran their business when no one was around (extremely unprofessional and bad morals). I had several business transactions with them for auto detailing and only saw a company that engaged in business with the worst intentions and selfish actions.
Yeah it's really unfortunate
The moral of the story is only buy vehicles from NG Supercars
I wish that were the only moral here. Lol
Very sad for both guys
Yeah for sure
I was totally lost due to lack of proper context. So I stopped the video, went to the prior video in the link description and figured it out pretty quickly. Basically, you have both sides of the transaction here. Because the prior video was from 3 months ago, I completely forgot about it so that's why I was lost in the beginning. Hopefully, this isn't an early sign of dementia
Na that seems reasonable
New nickname for Mustangs GT 500 "The hot potato"
Oh man
@FML, Ferrari Matt Life, did interview the seller of the Ferrari he bought via CNC
Ah yes
Sir i need mechanic job with your heavan workshop
We only have hell jobs here. 😁
@@normalguysupercar ok when I come your hell
Trusting dealership. Now there is a oxymoron if I ever heard one. I work for a car dealership and I would NEVER buy a car from them. You can tell dealerships are lying because their lips are moving.
Generally
Marcus was in on it with the dealership. It doesn’t add up. Even if my assumption is false the question is now up in the air. Carlos got himself a sweet lawsuit ahead 😅
We will see
I wouldn’t put it past them he did ask me to sue tax fraud
As I've said before, just don't do a consignment deal. If buying used I'd have to see a free & clear title before I pay anything. There's just too many shady people out there to trust someone.
Yup
lol this is my sisters BF this is crazy not the GT500
Yeah it's pretty nuts
I’m failing to understand why any buyer would wire over a substantial amount of money to purchase a car without the title in their hand/bro signed over to them? Isn’t that a standard part of the paperwork? Maybe things work differently up here in Canada? Private sales here there is literally a package you buy from the DMV that has the sellers info and place to sign over ownership etc (must be provided by the seller) and dealerships the registration (what we call the title here) is signed over as part of the paperwork when purchasing and signing before you pay? Have bought both ways.
Not sure what kind of cars you buy but not even dealerships give you a title until 2-4 weeks after. And what if the car has a lien/loan? It’s really not that simple and remember they did show the title cause they had the rights. I’m also in Texas car was bought in California use common sense
Exactly this. Lien, DMV, etc...
All rise! The honorable Judge Dan presiding!
Definitely not
He had a well founded anxiety about the car being taken, yet in the end left it vulnerable to the point that they got it? If that was me that car would have been securely locked away and hidden and not publicly driven pending the legal outcome. How could he drop the ball like that?
Well at some point it's gotta be driven
thats not this guys problerm, he bought the car legally from them, and he has proof, the other guy needs to go through court
In theory but it has become his problem too
Marcus is a thief he needs to go to jail
Ok
The car is present. So is the title. Best to sell the car AGAIN then split the proceeds. Otherwise the lawyers get it all. 50% is better than nothing...
Are there a higher number of sketchy people in the car business? Is there too much ego and testosterone involved? I guess fundamentally it must be hard to correctly buy cars while having some guy willing to pay a profit in a short time period. I remember all the exotic car "hackers" who said you could drive a lambo for free. Sure if nothing breaks on it and you do not need to spend anything on consumables. Seems like the consignment business is one big reality distortion field. If it is so easy to commit fraud there should be more consumer protections. Dan what legal changes would you suggest to prevent more people from becoming victims. its hard to watch how easily people's lifelong dreams turn into nightmares.
I think they should require much much higher bonds. Like maybe you can only sell cars at the maximum value of your bond. That would be a good start.
So before I wire the money,send me a picture proving your have the title.
They did because they did have it they were speaking with Marcus I got pics of title and all
Just because there's a pic of the title doesn't mean you'll get it. As evidenced here
Oh man. Feel for both of these guys. Horrible. Wonder if the civil courts would at least provide a judgement to garnish future wages, income or assets of the scum bag dealer. 🤔 Lawyers? @stevelehto
Oh and another reason to use Josh and Dan for your transaction. 😉
I think maybe the court could do that
Never, never buy a consignment from a dealer. This transaction is covered by a section on the Universal Commercial Code. If the buyer pays a fair market price and has no knowledge of any problems the dealer may have they become a Bona Fide Purchaser or Buyer In Due Course and own the vehicle. The UCC is very specific and states that if the dealer is licensed and the buyer meets certain qualifications such as buying in good faith and paying a current market price he owns the vehicle and will be able to get a title. The seller has to go after the dealer. The buyer needs an attorney who is familiar with the UCC. I have been involved in such a situation and when the original seller took the car back he was charged with theft and the car was returned to the person who bought from the dealer. Also, never consign with a dealer since they can sell the vehicle, the new owner is the legal owner and you as the seller has to go after the dealer or his Bond. You cannot go after the buyer of possibly face theft charges.
Yeah it's ugly
Not the gt500
Yup
Id just go get the car myself...dont rely on the law it never works out.
Sadly the laws on stuff like this aren't super clear
Super cars seems to attract drama…
Yup
IT Not your car you have no title
Yeah
I’ve always heard that possession is 9/10 of the law. The car should have been kept in a secure location until the legal process was resolved. The most fair resolution would be to auction the car and split the proceeds 50/50.
That's not a terrible idea
Yeah, I wouldn’t pay 100% without title in hand.
Well then you probably won't be able to do any consignment deals
@@normalguysupercar Are there not escrow services that can help with this problem?
i see NO reason to do any IMHO they should be illegal !
$ should be given directly to the owner of the car selling it in exchange for the signed notarized title and car .
i have bought cars out of state.sight unseen
Wells Fargo Bank agreed to act as an escrow free! once the transport driver verified the title was signed, notarized and handed to him and the car was loaded on the transport truck the $ was released deposited directly into sellers acct by my calling the bank ! seller and driver verified w/ bank before car left his driveway .
any other type of sale ?Any fees or profit % can be paid directly to the dealer or agent separately by whoever is supposed to pay
consignment ? they are just a recipe for disaster I have told my Heirs when I die the car is to be given to my granddaughter and no one should do any consignment if she decides to sell it so they won't !
. @@normalguysupercar
consignment ? NEVER ! WHY ?
I reaLIZE YOU ARE BEING NEUTRAL
sorry I blame this guy he facilitated a scam buying a car w/ out a title
He should NOT have bought it ! what reasonable or prudent person would ?
HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED, DEMANDED TO SEE THE TITLE it is BS ! NOT given cash w/ out being handed the title I never would ever do any deal like this ! NOONE should .
That's not how it works though.
well, that is how I do business and no one gets cheated !
as long as people LET scammers scam them they will continue to get scammed .
!
SIMPLE THERE IS no REASON FOR CONSIGNMENT TO EXIST , IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL
AND AS A BUYER OR SELLER ?
YOU ARE A FOOL IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO BUISINES W/ ONE OF THOSE CREEPS
YOU CAN JUST DEMAND A CLEAN / CLEAR TITLE AT POINT OF SALE OR SAY NO SALE AND BUY ELSEWHERE ! SIMPLE
@@normalguysupercar
They should agree to a split ownership agreement. They both seem like reasonable guys at the end of the day
I somehow doubt that would ever work in reality
Terrible audio...
Cool.
Stop waving your hand and arms in front of the camera lens.
Ok
Dude, enough with your stupid mustangs.
Uhhh k
These old cars are charming curiosities and wonderful time capsules of another era, but I grew up back then and drove them. Sadly as interesting as they are, cars from the good old days were kind of crappy by modern standards. Technology marches on.
It’s particularly funny when people fondly remember how “hot” the old muscle cars were. The Car and Driver website archives all their old road tests. The original 428 powered Shelby GT500 ran the quarter mile in 15.0 seconds at 95 mph. A new Toyota RAV4 Prime compact SUV does it in 14.0 seconds at 100 mph. Not to mention trying to corner or stop those old boats. 😮
Carlos says Marcos shouldn’t have been doing business with the dealer. Gosh, maybe Carlos shouldn’t have been doing business with the dealer either. They both got screwed by the same dealer.
As everyone keeps pointing out, don’t sell or buy a car unless the money, title and car are changing hands at the same location and at the same time.
When I buy a car, I go to a dealer, we sit in an office while I wire the money to the dealer, they hand me the keys, the title transfer and the car. I drive away. Not, I’ll send you my car and hope you send me money for it, or I’ll send you money and hope I get a car and the title. If you want the convenience of selling or buying cars on remote consignment, caveat not just emptor.
At least try to pick a dealer like Dan who has a policy of not touching the money any longer than he has, to and gives the vibe of being a “Normal Guy” rather than someone who is thinking where to get the next score to pay for the diamond Piaget watch he’s wearing.
This guy is really trying to deflect a lot of blame here. "My girlfriends mother found it, he should have done his research before consigning it, maybe he has buyers remorse"
Well dude, you sent 200k to the same sketchy dealer without verifying they had the title in hand. The dealer screwed both parties equally and they need to quit whining and go after the dealer instead of playing cat and mouse with the car.
Eh I mean I think both Carlos and Marcus are victims and shouldn't be blamed
I have no remorse I’m fighting to keep the car. And he cut the video up so you missed a lot of the story
@@Deepvalue Sorry to have sounded harsh. You seem to be handling this FAR better than Marcus. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't matter which of you is right, if the dealer keeps the money and leaves you two fighting each other, neither of you will ever be happy with the outcome. I read your other comment mentioning you offered 40k in legal compensation which I think is absolutely more than fair. The one thing I haven't seen confirmed is whether or not Marcus' side of the contract stipulated he'd get the money before handing over the title? I have noticed you saying he doesn't have the legal grounds to say the dealer stole from him which implies the dealer didn't break any contractual obligations to him. Regardless of that, Marcus definately stole your car with his little impound charade. It's unfortunate things have escelated this far, as an outsider all I can do is leave snide remarks in the comments section. Good luck.
Daddy should have just sold it to the Mommy
Ok
No title no car that's on buyer.
Well what if there was a lien?
you should have never moved that car until everything was settled, even then inside a garage 24/7 mistake
Probably
Yikes! I wish they could take that dealer and make him an indentured servant until his debt was paid for lol
I like this plan