Unlearning Your Pain w/ Dr Howard Schubiner
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
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Today I speak with one of the world’s foremost experts on pain management Dr. Howard Schubiner @hschubiner. Dr. Schubiner is the director of the Mind Body Medicine Center at Ascension Providence Hospital in Southfield, Michigan, and a Clinical Professor at the Michigan State University College of Human Medicine. He has authored three books: Unlearn Your Pain, Unlearn Your Anxiety and Depression, and Hidden From View.
Dr. Schubiner is also the co-creator of Emotion Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET), an evidence-based, highly effective psychological treatment for chronic pain. He was part of the team that conducted the Boulder back pain study which demonstrated that 75% of the people with chronic back pain treated with Pain Reprocessing Therapy recovered fully and documented the changes in the brain that occurred with this treatment using function MRI scans.
This is a fascinating and really informative conversation on the nature of pain and how we can overcome the suffering it causes. I hope you enjoy listening.
LINKS:
Dr. Schubiner Website: UnlearnYourPain.com
Mind Body Connection Animated Video Series:
OvidDx
PPDassociation.org
TMSwiki.org
Sirpa.org
Curable App
FreedomFromChronicPain.com
Lin.Health
About:
Dr. Howard Schubiner is an internist and pediatrician, who attained the rank of full Professor at Wayne State University School of Medicine in 1999. He is an internist and the director of the Mind Body Medicine Center at Ascension Providence Hospital in Southfield, Michigan. Dr. Schubiner is a Clinical Professor at the Michigan State University College of Human Medicine and is a fellow in the American College of Physicians, and the American Academy of Pediatrics. He has authored more than 100 publications in scientific journals and books, and lectures regionally, nationally, and internationally and has consulted for the American Medical Association, the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and the National Institute on Mental Health. Dr. Schubiner is the author of three books: Unlearn Your Pain, Unlearn Your Anxiety and Depression, and Hidden From View, written with Allan Abbass, MD, a Professor of Psychiatry at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
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Enjoyed the episode? Subscribe to receive news about future shows, and leave a review, we would love to hear from you!
Connect with Karim:
Website: www.karim-rush...
Insight Timer: www.insighttimer.com/backtobeingmethod
I'm praying for everyone with pain. There is hope. I'm also praying that I can live a full life regardless, forget my symptoms and do what I have to do.
Tried everything 12 years severe chronic pain lost my hair also from the constant trauma caused over chronic nerve pain tried vitamins therapy read dr sarnos book still same so fruatrating
I discovered Dr. Schubiner and his work a month ago and have been doing what he says to do. My long covid symptoms have improved at least 50% in that time and I'm looking forward to a full recovery. I'm very grateful for his important work and to all those who spread the word about it.
Hi Laura. Do you have any special video you have used or did you read the book(s)? I am trying to figure out how to start… (LC for 13months)
Great to hear this Laura! Dr. Schubiner is a rare breed of doctor who prioritises compassion above all else and still manages to be a world-leading researcher in pain management and brain-generated pain. we need more doctors cut from the same cloth!
Long Covid is the same symptoms has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that accompanies Fibromyalgia. That's what my Doctor said 30 years ago my brain was sending wrong messages to my body. Fibromyalgia is horrendous.
@@gitteodk hi, I’ve found most of my resources on RUclips. I’ll listen to stuff like this, I really like the Mindful Movement for meditation and “The Way Out” is a great book. I’m still working through this and have had a few small break-throughs, but continue to have pain.
@@littlelumber Thx - me too :) I am a reading some pages everyday... hope to get to the good part soon ;)
This is so refreshing! I am open to the possibilities of being pain free again. Thank you so much!
It’s legit. It can take some time. It’s not a race.
It's a huge and important point that "The pain is real".. because with the current atmosphere of medication-averse young MDs, a patient gets hyper aware that their doctor thinks that they are "drug seeking" when they even MENTION that there could be an emotional aspect. You've GOT to start with "The pain is real".
This guy Dr Schubiner is GOLD and A - mazing !! TY for the interview, Thank G*d for Dr's like him and that he is sharing SO much online - how humble and generous of him. My Dr's reaction to 2O years of chronic pain is to let me suffer. They do not offer me drugs, except Paracetamol; and NSAID's, which I can no longer take. They just do not know how to help you. It is understandable - but to be just left to suffer - it is awful. And some of the reax from Specialists was degrading and just a terrible experience. I AM GOING TO DO THS STUFF HE TALKS ABOUT . I have always said, after 2O years of chronic illness - the only person who is going to be able to heal this is - ME. I don't know how - maybe now I have the keys from this Dr - but if I can't do it, no Dr can do anything for me.
exactly what you said.. doctors do not know, because they are not taught how to, and its the system that is broken. Doctors like Dr. Schubiner are a ray of light and I hope more medical professionals can start adopting this empathetic way of empowering patients. Sending you lots of strength and thank you for sharing so courageously.
Agree Jacqueline. I was in the same boat. When you stop looking to others to heal you, and realize we can do ourselves, it's empowering. All we needed was someone (be it God) to show us the way and shine the mindbody light! 🙌👍💝
Maybe you don't need drugs that's why he doesn't want to offer them to you. If you follow this program here then drugs won't do nothingb other than get you addicted
Knowledge will heal you . Just be strong in flare ups and stick to the plan. Were all gonna make it
I have to tell you dr. Shubiner, I finally got totally free of my pain an moved into a new apt. this only goes to show you all your theories are correct. Im no longer living on that busy street an walking to the busstop every morning!! I am safe resting and only go out when I actually need to
Was it chronic nerve pain wat u do
I have been struggling with back problems for over 4 years, someone suggested my pain maybe neuroplastic. I completely dismissed it and would not entertain it. Something changed about 3 weeks ago I started reading and watching videos about pyschosomatic pain. Knowing that there was nothing structurally wrong with me (had mri, X-ray) I decided to give the techniques a go and I’ve dramatically changed in my pain levels I actually can’t believe it. In the back of my mind I sometimes still go back to thinking there is something wrong and I still feel pain. But the pain intensity and my fear levels have changed so much.
@jak9955 verbal messages could be ‘there’s nothing structurally wrong with me’, ‘this pain is just temporary’, ‘my brain has learnt this pain,I’ll be fine’, my brain is misinterpreting the signals’ …
@jak9955 follow Pain Free You. Great videos to teach the concepts.
@jak9955Following.
What did you do exactly?
I get everything the good doctor said, but the years of misdiagnosis to millions and millions who died and of ruined lives...This is the reprocessing point where my thought pivots...I am thankful I'm still alive...Anyways, I am glad this conversation is getting to more and more people.
I started using this approach as a massage therapist with my clients and am already seeing huge progress in chronic pain cases across the board. Thanks so much for bringing this information to light.
Do you mind if I ask how you implement this approach as a massage therapist?
@@SellyNueby just talking about peoples pain with them, getting to know their stories, validating them and showing them this new lens to interpret their chronic pain through
@@MulberryWombatcan tell u it dont matter how u interprer it i habe chronic debilatating nerve pain 12 years now i can barely function ive tried reading dr sarnoz book therapy for years everhthing i.got injured in my last job tryin to save old man from a fall i was abused my hole life also have emotional pain nothing works ive tried everything even exercise walk when i get more debilatated
I feel conflicted: on one hand, i have structural pain, if i would sign consents, I have surgeons who would move forward with no less than 6 surgeries. Its comforting knowing that my brain isn't "creating the pain". On the other hand, it seems that it would be easier if my pain was "just" TMS. Even when i take the assessment, I don't score a "TMS score".
Structural doesn't always mean source of pain though....
I HAVE bulging discs and told it's NOT cause of my pain
My pain is here from the loss of a loved one
Me too 😢
Same but it's massively lowered now due to all the work I've even doing. Wishing you all the best.
Hope you're getting better. Sending love
Mines too had a few losses first lost sciatic nerve pain second loss neck pain and 3 loss migraine and tmj. I miss all my loved ones that are no longer here.
Thanks Karim...great interview with Dr Schubiner, heard Howard talk many times, but it's always great to hear again!! Very comprehensive / helpful discussion.
Great interview. Thank you so much ♡
Excellent
An example of say bulging or herniated discs causing pain, & some people with these diagnoses not experiencing pain, surely it would depend on whether the bulge/ herniation is pressing on nerves or not ?? If the bulge was pressing against a nerve then that is real pain yes?
My problem! My mind can't STOP MY PAIN! COPE WITH PAIN? MAYBE!!!
Absolutely, pain from injury is real and healing is necessary. It's when the pain paves neural pathways that expect it, it become part of predictive processing cognitive structure. It's unconscious. Look up Active Inference for more explaination.
@@Childlesscatlabydiscs ect have limited blood supply , doctors will tell you everything in the body is healed in 3 months.Explain pain in animals ect what they stressed, relationships broke down and they can't pay mortgage.Doctors don't understand the brain it as 4 billion cells.They been wrong for the last 150 years.
Thank you for this
I'm in that in-between stage where I presume I have nerve muscle damage from repetitive strain at the back of my neck and not knowing if I now I have m/b or I'm still healing. I'm in pain every day and have been for over three months. Mri showed 'normal wear and tear for 47.
Thank you so much..
Lyme, bacterial infections, viruses, rheumatoid factors, Ankylosing spondylitis, bulging discs, mold toxicity, chronic strep, autoimmune diseases, etc. are all contributing to my 69 year-old body. I ache so bad, I feel useless now.
Doc, if our TMS is self punishment due to parental guilt how do we teach the brain there’s no danger?
Every option should be available to people in pain.
How to handle the symptom imperative?
My pain appears to be structural...of course!! 😂😂😂 so I can tell myself all the wonderful stories to my brain till I am blue in the face...Zero progress!! 😂😂
what do you do when I can't even find how I should do it? How do I do mindfulness How to meditate in this pain?
Dr. Schubiner touched on racism causing chronic pain. What about misogyny/sexism/patriarchy??? That alone could explain why women suffer more often from chronic symptoms.
Dr. - could this apply to Protracted Acute Withdrawal Syndrome - something that happens to people who have tapered off prescribed benzodiazapines??
Hi I’m 6 years in brutal pain due to a forced cold turkey off 16 years on ativan I was given in the ER for ONE PANIC ATTACK! Was prescribed 4x a day . Shame on the Drs that do this and on me for trusting them ! Never again as I research everything now ,however it’s too late 😔 My pain leaves me unable to sit ,stand or lay down without excruciating pain! I’m trying this approach now as test after test comes back normal . I do have a neck injury and some low back issues but nothing that ever needed and surgery. This will be the miracle I’m looking for 🦋 The best to everyone and to the protracted damage to many people suffer at the hands of Drs . Thank goodness for Drs like Dr Schubiner 💜
Oh I’ve never heard of this but I am currently tapering off of Benzos after 15 years
I have heard of many people having success using DNRS for this! Give it a Google. Hope you find your healing path. ♥️
I find it a bit paradoxical how the sarno guys completely reject conventional treatments (which makes sense as they do not work) but rely religiously on conventional diagnostics.
I believe if all tests are ok it doesnt mean youre physically fine, it just means we dont have good enough tests yet.
Also, an old relative of mine with terminal cancer had a huge symptom relief on a vacation so thats not really a clue to psychosomatic pain. I think any chronic pain from any illness is dynamic and responds to mood and life events.
Also, the main stressor in the patient's life is the pain/symptoms itself - in my own life its the only stressor. So again, a bit paradoxical. A chronic pain patient by definition can't not be in stress.
They don't reject conventional treatments. The studies PROVE conventional treatments DO NOT DO ANYTHING. Studies alone on back surgeries show 70% of patients still have pain 2 years out and end up in hospital for the SAME issue.
23:31: That's it, if you get nothing out of this interview, that would be it
Coming up on 13 years seven surgeries a whole pile of different procedures many different medication‘s over the years lost everything my career my friends my confidence everything but my wife now because I have a series of MRIs showing the problems in the lower spine at all these doctors now that I’ve had a few surgeries nobody will touch me they all look at it and say well pain medication is your only answer when they tell me it’s gonna get worse and I believe it is can my brain do all of that?
Hope & optimism can carry us through even the darkest of times, I chose not to rely on pain medications and it wasn't an easy journey but I am so grateful that I made that choice. When our mind gives up, our body gives up. Sending you strength in your journey, keep going theres hope!
Yes, your brain can cause all these symptoms, follow painfreeyou utube, it follows up on this. Life changing!
What about nervous exhaustion and fatigue
Hi Angelica, I’d suggest looking into some evidence based 8 week mindfulness programmes like MBSR and MBCT. Can also look into the stress reaction cycle and it’s impacts. Beyond that, diet (particularly vitamin and mineral deficiency) and getting some regular mindful movement going may be helpful. The irony is that our cells produce more mitochondria when we move, and they are the fuel/energy for life. It’s counter intuitive but often the best thing to do when feeing fatigued is to do some light exercise, even if it’s anabolic (gentle movement only). I wish you well.
Thank you so much for this interview. So informative and encouraging. Dr Howard you are a saint! Mind Body therapy literally saved me life.🫶✨️
I pray to God that this applies to trigeminal neuralgia. 😞
It does I recovered 100%
@@rosalindaharmon8626 that's wonderful to hear!!
Is there a email address for questions to be sent to Dr Schubiner
This is his website! unlearnyourpain.com/
Does this include sciatic pain?
Can't seem to figure out where the nerve is bothered . Continued foot pain for years . Low back - pirformis - shin pain
I recall that no doctor who worked with Sarno ever referred anyone to him! Docs don’t want to hear this.
🙏
👍👍👍❤
💕💕💕💕💕
Please STOP the ads. Terrible disteaction, ironically
No disrespect but so far not impressed. Possibly because I have a lot of physical ailments from connective tissue disorder bone on bone in my back and other places in my body.. wonderful for those that it does help but it's not going to help everyone and I feel like I'm not one. Good luck to all that it does help I'm happy for you.
Listen to yourself.....get out of the victim mentality. Not everyone with real physical things has pain. Why is that?
I understand why doctors are trying to make people believe their pain is in their brain. I realize doctors are literally going crazy trying to help so many people with pain, with no machine or tool, to detect the muscle's positioning. After 26 years of massage therapy, I can tell you that I have never had 1 patient, whose pain was not in the areas of the muscles that were tightened, obviously inhibiting blood flow. There can be a nervous system component, but is never the core cause. I am writing a book that should be out soon, so poor doctors can relax and not feel so stressed out in trying to help so many people who are suffering. And also people will know what is causing their pain, and what to do to avoid it or relieve it. I will just say that all of the running, that has been required in the schools for the last 35 years, is at the core of the pain and opioid epidemic. You don't require millions of children to do a movement, where nobody has done any extensive studies on as to its consequences. Running is NOT good exercise.. only about 5% of the population has a body for it. And it should not be even used as exercise untila body is fully grown..
IDK.....so what just tell yourself you don't have pain and voila?? Come on now... what I find really works is painkillers, cortisone shots, etc
Because every unhealed patient is fir a medical doctor a loss of money..
You are elegant when you find an excuse for them...
If the doctor can pen a name to the problem , then they can pin a bill to the office visit. If the doctor has no idea what is causing the pain , it's very difficult to bill the patient.😂😂😂😂
Great interview. Thank you so much ♡