Waves Damage Is Done
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- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2023
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It’s heartwarming to know the whole audio community came together to throw gas on the dumpster fire that is waves.
well it's our life's dude it's what we do
Media influencers should make it a point to stop reviewing subscriptions or review them negatively. The manufactures will get the message. Most of us are struggling musicians. We all want to own our software. Let's start a movement. We are sick of it
@@FC-xc3zy true mate very true
They don’t even have the best plugins. Mediocre at best, and they have lots of competitors for their good ones. Lots. I didn’t like waves before, I’ll definitely never buy anything from them again.
We don't need these company's Kevin your DAW is more than capable.
I hope this becomes a learned lesson for the whole audio industry.
Yeah talking about you Antares
If i were them i'd start a long way back in their crummy business practices including everything from visual over functionality, combersome installation, paid updates and unnecessary files clogging system storage and making it difficult to delete.
I spent thousands on waves products for a hobby and i never use their products because almost all their stuff has a better counterpart.
Yea I feel like people were already tired of it from other companies and this just happen to be the straw that broke the camels back.
literally every product that is musician related, most musicians I know dont pay any monthly anything if possible, not netflix or prime even
Exactly
Waves has shown their true colors. It was too wild of a move for me to trust them again. How could you decide to push us out of our perpetual licenses without a subscription?
That was the strategy 😂😂 to made them look like they listen to the people. Waves’CTO presumably get back to perpetual (don your own research but that’s what I heard) Jajaj very old method from politics
they alawys shown their true colors with their update plan, they just spit in everybody faces this time
@@flashback4588 exactly the waves update plan is already a subscription model without explicitly being called one which is one of the many reasons I dropped waves entirely a few years ago
@@flashback4588 well, to be fair, a lot of software license comes with terms that say something like “guarantees updates for 3 years” or something like that. So their upgrade plan is fine as long as you can continue using older versions. However, somehow their stuff stops working when a new MacOS comes out. It I am Stil have apps on my app that I got like 5-6 years ago and still work fine. I can update them, but they do what is needed. So yeah, I’m the end I agree with you.
Also, I had no idea that this update plan existed till almost all my plugins stopped working on new version is MacOS. Never bought a single plugin from Waves ever since, well, except one RealTine that I got for 25 dollars (and it sucks tbh). So waves have not existed for me for a while.
Agreed. This was a breach of trust, and cannot be reversed this easily.
only if the eliminate WUP and lower by half their subscription plan.......I stopped using waves even tho bought many bundles and plugins...... so if is all about $$$$ so give to us something that is a non brainer!
@@bluematrix5001 I literally just bought a plugin and the update plan is free now it seems.
You're so right, Barry. The damage has been done. I quit Waves for good.
I agree with you completely. Between the subscriptions and their upgrade fees, I’m done with giving them any future business.
To be honest. I stopped going to waves since the WUP. When they introduced that, I asked them a lot of questions to clarify many things.... none of which were responded to. I asked myself... what happened to the support of these plugins I've already paid for. Even for a couple of plugins I had issues with ... none were responded to. So that trust deficit seemed quite consistent to the level of care or respect the company had for their customers. I have been a customer for close to a decade. They have some hard lessons to learn.
Wow. You just wrote the next ad for their competition.
same here dude
Same here! I bought some of their plugins in a sale and they wanted me to buy them again to use them on my new system. I have never experienced such a practice with any other plugin company. And I decided not to use them anymore.
Their support is horrible. I had a hard drive crash and somewhat foolishly (because they dont tell you not to) had all my licenses on my hard drive.Then a couple of months later it happened again (Turns out there was a fault on the motherboard itself). After 2 months of ignoring my emails they REFUSED to help me fix the problems and where incredibly rude about it telling me I had to wait till the next *year*. Well as you can imagine I didnt wait till the next year, my studio cant do that, I had jobs on, so I went and replaced *all* the plugs I was using with other companies ones, and never looked back. The only waves plug I use now is the vocal rider cos I dont know any alternatives to it and man thats gonna be dropped like a hot potato as soon as I find an alternative.
I'm glad I couldn't afford it when I started working inside of the DAW...I got used to the free ones and actually learned how to use compressors, EQ, PRE-AMPS , etc and it helped me become a better engineer
I’m glad I went the free plugins route/ then Plugin Alliance and Native Instruments THEN Waves, because I only have 4 of there plugins and only bought 1. They’re shady.
Honestly if you take the time to learn the stock plugins thoroughly, they are more than enough.
@@BobbyGeneric145 facts 🎯
@@Capwell3855 people throw money and magic plugins at shitty recordings and lack of tech skills and the results sound good. Meanwhile, if it was recorded good and you actually know what a compressor does, or a notch filter, stock stuff is great. Ask Finneas.
Barry you are absolutely right. Even some stock plugins with some DAWS are competition for Waves now.
I absolutely, completely agree with you. I too am tired of getting screwed by these greedy companies. I like your analogy of a cheating partner. For most of us this is a relationship killer. As for me I'm done and will look elsewhere and adjust accordingly. As you said, the quick backpedal came from the fear of losing profit! I concur 100 percent! 💯
I concur. And the most important thing you said is that there is POWER in Unity. No More Money to Waves.
You made a huge difference and because of you and those like you, WE ALL WON!!
Thank you for being our voice!!
Hi Barry, I agree. The first plugins I ever bought was from Waves - vocal rider, bass rider, etc. Then later on bought their gold package, and after a year upgraded to Platinum. But as I am just a hobbyist, it will be untenable for me to have them on subscription. I buy plugins based on the funds I have, and I do not want to worry later on if I can afford to sustain payments for subscriptions. Much as I love my F6, MV2, Renaissance, vocal and bass riders, I am saying goodbye to my Waves plugins and will slowly shift to others like MeldaProductions, TDR, Softube, etc.
I remember these old plugins from our first band recordings in the early 2000s. The producer had some of their plugins and we were all looking up to them as if they were pure gold. In that time they had a great reputation and a lot of trust going on. Not much left of this.
100% agreed. 1) yes Waves does have some gems, but even many of these gems are being overtaken by the competition. 2) Waves became a scam operation when they introduced the WUP that offered literally nothing substantial... a new skin woop woop! What about upgrading the algorithms to improve the sound? What about introducing oversampling to their plugins? That would actually mean something. But nope, a ridiculous price to upgrade each plugin (ANNUALLY!) to offer new skins and allow them to be used on newer operating systems. 3) And then Waves subscription-gate?!! Even though they panicked and backpedaled I have rarely been so disgusted by corporate behaviour as I have with this move . It show s a total lack of respect for the customers who made them, and they REALLY deserve the pain that follows from this
Yeah, and the first resizable skin wasn't even hi-res 😂
This was such a great move on Waves part... they showed the rest of the music/audio industry to not even PONDER a sub-only model. EVER. Who's going to do that now? Nobody!
I hope Universal Audio heed this warning. Also, another person suggesting Reaper is just as good as Pro Tools in post. I work in film composition and made the switch to Reaper too - it's freaking awesome. $60, perpetual licence, supportive community and a really amazing interface once you get going.
Reaper x1000
Hell yeah. I used reaper on trial and was so blown away that I have licenses at this point for studio a, b, and c computers. That and all of the crazy awesome community blows me away. It runs amazingly well too. It's basically the Linux of DAWs
Reaper is great FOR ADR and Foley ... what I use it for 80% of the time.
Reaper is a excellent - but - its essentially a one man band - perpetual isn't perpetual when it depends on one delicate bag of flesh.
Note you may have to use the $200 commercial license depending on your revenue. Which is still amazing value considering the license is valid forever and you get free updates for 2 major versions, which, going by past developments, equates to ca. 8 years
It’s not just the audio industry. Just a few days ago the exact same thing happened to the dungeons and dragons community. They tried to take away the open gaming license d&d has always had, and promised to have forever. This would have screwed over a whole lot of people and businesses. They had every intention of doing it but pulled out when they saw the massive backlash by everyone in the community.
PlayStation used to state their online gaming was “Free now and forever “ but as soon as they saw Microsoft’s model making millions they soon changed their minds .. thats capitalism for you …😬
@@sea-saw2654 That's not capitalism. It's monopoly gained by dodgy commercial policies. Microsoft could do it because they already dominate the market. Waves does not.
@@sea-saw2654 I’m not against companies making money for their work. But holy crap something is wrong when a mobile game wants you to spend what a new professional gaming system costs to have fun.
Waves thank you so kindly for giving me back what I already freaking paid for!
*Time To Said Goodbye Waves*
R.I.P.
You're right, the damage is done and I can't trust a company like that anymore.
Waves = The cheating partner of plugins. Great analogy!
I went viral over this, and for good reason. The comments are all in favor of the same middle finger I gave them, so that makes at least two of us! It is like you said, It is too late. The damage is done, and this line cannot be uncrossed.
Waves has spent too much time in the consumer market (Maxx Audio), completely neglecting that we are not the same type of customer. Regardless of demographics, we are smarter than average, and don't stand for abuses like these.
They also fail to realize that it is a buyer's market, and they need us much more than we need them.
Thanks for the content, and all your hard work!
Backtracking or not, the damage is already done. Those who have many of their plugins can even be grateful, but the breach of trust was great. And trust is something that is hard to regain. I saw several other videos of producers also bashing Waves, even after the new announcement. Some even have a list of replacements for different Waves' plugins. Not to mention that several other companies took advantage of Waves' self-counterpropaganda for their own marketing. Anyway, it was a huge mistake, and I think it will leave marks.
Softtube was on fire with their ads saying stuff like "wave subscriptions goodbye and own your own products" stuff like that haha
@@pedrosilvamusician exactly! Best ads are coming from them. kkkkk
What companies used Waves' blunder for their marketing?
@@erevigs7590 Not directly, but between the lines, I've seen a bunch of ads in the last few days on foruns and emails.
I agree. Its too late. With the PA mega sale with 20$ vounchers it was a easy to leave Waves…
Thank you for being our voice 100% agree
When a company doesn't innovate anymore it pivots to subscription.
Excellent comments! I agree with your thoughts.
Waves will not get any more money from me
Thanks for fighting the good fight Barry!!!
Hi , mister Johns ! You are absolutely 100 % right !!! Have a nice day ! Best regards from Norway !
The good news is this debacle will make other companies think twice before trying to do the same thing.
I have finished my new song in Studio one with Plugin Alliance and Studio one Stock plugins. Done Bye Bye Waves!
voices like this are really important. we need to continue to check things in society and use our platforms to do so. unity is the key to a better future.
Thanks for being brave and tell the truth !!! We should make a comercial add about forgetting waves
And avid !
We all deserve respect !!
Love your channel by the way & I agree 100%.....after this move that Waves has done, I won't be doing any further business with them again & Im sure Im not the only one....Thanks so much for your information & wisdom Barry....IK Multimedia , Universal Audio, Acustica audio, Isotope all great alternatives to Waves, just to name a few.
My man Barry , you speak the truth and one should recognize the truth when you hear it . When something feels wrong it is wrong and WAVES FEELS SO WRONG TO ME . I'm done with them jokers . I am not re newing a thing when it stop working for whatever reason , good I'm done .
Thank You for speaking out!!! Good Job!!!
Fantastic, Barry! Nice job!
I spent the last couple of days researching other companies for potential replacements for the handful of Waves plugs that I ACTUALLY use. There looks to be some really good stuff out there. 😀
Waves Alternative Products >> docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--yRZdWro_d28LmYNvaWsVct7CR6Y_KAULFU8wZ4SEI/htmlview
Let me add my voice to the chorus and say I 100% agree. I'm done with Waves. I HATE subscriptions with a passion. I HATE feeling like I'm a hostage to a company.
Amen to that! I totally agree!
Thanks for your honest straight shooting videos Barry!
Fantastic rant! 10/10!
I bought Mercury bundle back in the days when it was $7k + (probably around 2010/12)....I know, right? When I bought it, it was on a special sale at around $3k, so I jumped on board. Since then, , I own and love NI Komplete Ultimate, UAD, Softube, Slate, iZotope, Soundtoys, PluginAlliance, Kush and Arturia and more, and honestly, HONESTLY, I would have given Waves away altogether save for their Abbey Road series.
And to be brutally honest, that's more out of me being a complete Beatles fanatic and having a sentimental connection to the idea of Abbey Road...
Without wishing to run Waves down, they're essentially based around distortion, compression and ....well, that's about it. Many variations of the same effects in different skins.
Personally, I don't mind a subscription model, Slate being a good example of that model done well. But I have been pretty unimpressed with Waves' update system, hardly bothering with it if the truth be told.
Anyhow, my rant is over.
Cheers.
as you say Barry the bird has flown waves has truly blown it
Well said. Thank you for your Wisdom, Barry.
Companies should always remember the Lorax animated cartoons from 1972 and 2012
Pulsar plugins are currently at 60% off and totally worth every penny. They only make a few, but they cover a large spectrum of your needs. The best part is… They are for life.
Integrity goes a long way!
Again I totally agree! Before I switch to Apple Silicon I will make sure I have found replacements for every Waves plugin I use...
Very well said!! Thank you for expressing our feelings so clearly and strongly... thank you!!
Barry, man, I feel your pain. Waves has disgusted me with their latest money grab and disregard for us all. I will never spend another cent on their products which no doubt goes towards financing their obnoxious greed!
This "discard" carried out by Waves on the customer relationship is, in my opinion, very reminiscent of classic behavior patterns that usually occur within a narcissistic toxic relationship. Currently, we are back in the "love bombing" phase after "the next" did not work. Before the "discard", "the next" was secretly built up in the background with the goal of disposing of the old relationship. In this discarding phase, the hatred and disrespect for the old customer relationship must have already been very strong, which in turn explains the overall behavior of the company in the last few days.
100% agree. Thank you for the vent
Thanks for your commentary Barry. I gave up on Waves as soon as they made us jump thru hoops just to update; long before pay to play.
Free updates for current license holders is their only worthy next step.
Analog Obsession are just as good or even better than waves and Analog Obsession is free but donate what you want so Tanca can keep producing awesome plugins
You can only push your customers around when your product(s) is something people can’t live without and you have no competition. Waves is a hard no on both counts
Totaly agree Barry!!! waves will never see a cent from me again!!!
I 100% agree. I was already annoyed by Waves - it's funny how a typical Mac OS update broke ONLY my Waves plugins. And then they jump to a sub model overnight, the Internet blows up, and they reverse course. Nope, they already lost me. I'm gone, gone, gone. Fortunately my UA plugins still work (and they're better.)
Thank you for standing your ground! Waves ALWAYS kinda sucked. I've spent 10's of thousands of $ over the years, but I NEVER EVER gave a cent to Waves because of the crap they pulled when they were on top in the mid-late 90's. They will get EVERYTHING they deserve IMHO. 😂🤣😅😆
Couldn’t agree more! Thanks for speaking out and sharing your knowledge.
Thank you! It works great :)
What they saw was the spontaneous forming of an active and loud boycott. And some probable legal problems in EU with new customers (where you are supposed to provide support for at least 2 years). What must have been particularly terrifying for them are the lists for replacement plugins that showed up within 12 hours of their announcement 😂😂...
That CEO sounded terrified.
Yes, absolutely. I mentioned this in various comment sections. And many of them are free!
There was one user who went to sub and his perpetual no longer worked. The roll out was so bad and so mean to those who might have been waiting to WUP until PT Silicon came out.
I happened to fall just on the edge of the WUP so I would have had mine covered for a year, but was already making plans on replacing things.
It will really hurt them going forward.
Without this problem I would never know this channel so you’re the winner lol
How COULD anyone disagree with you on this matter...?? You laid yourself bare in ways I've never seen before, and all for the greater good of your viewership, hoping to open some eyes in the process... Thank you for that !!!
I hope Avid learns from this and bring back perpetual license ls for Protools users.
I hope it does but I didn’t see nearly as much people complain about it.
Protools is obsolete anyway
Who cares when you can get reaper for like $60 and get free updates. The game has changed and their just not worth it anymore.
We are sick of it. Let's start a movement. Media influencers should make it a point to stop reviewing subscriptions or review them negatively. The manufacturers will get the message. Most of us are struggling musicians. We all want to own our software.
I left Pro Tools when their annual fee went from $99 year to $199. They increased their price 💯%. I can see 10% but not a 100.
Very well said, thank you!
Aloha from O'ahu. THANK YOU! I've been complaining to Waves for years - and getting stock email answers - and felt like I was screaming into a hurricane. I feel so much better!
Oh my 17 year old daughter talks about is moving to Hawaii. Enjoy paradise my brother!
I’m so tired of companies treating people as an obstacle to “their” money. And this wasn’t even how bad it could have been. Adobe makes you pay to cancel their subscription and you know waves would love to be able to have a business model like that.
We all have Wave plug in's we love, and we are not going to stop using them. We are glad they back pedaled and in the next couple of months, we will continue to move on with our lives using their software, as well as UAD, Softube and SSL.
Eh not for me, I'm not supporting a company like this. They really don't deserve such loyal customers with their history of money gouging.
@@Kynect2Hymn They have not gotten any money from me in a couple of years. So many of their plug ins are like $29 compared to UAD $350 when they first come out. So Waves made a mistake, they changed their mind and everything is the way it was.
Not for me.
@Will Mire Thats fine, you can do what you want. Adobe wants the same deal with monthly subscriptions for Light Room and other software they sell. Microsoft does the same thing for Microsoft 365. Norton does the same thing with their products too. This is nothing new. Now that Waves backed out of it, I'm glad.
I’m done with waves.
I completely agree with you. I think many companies are on the way to do the same procedure.
Bought a couple of Waves bundles last November. I was less than thrilled with their decision to go to a subscription base. I immediately unsubscribed from their email list. Amen regarding Avid. I took two Pro Tools classes. Avid wasn’t selling paper versions of their study manuals. They were digital only. No way to print them or even copy/paste. Completely locked up. It made the classes that much more challenging. Just missed buying a perpetual version of PT. Time to start looking at other DAW’s. We use Pro Tools at my college which was one of the reasons I went with PT.
Try Reaper. You can't go wrong.
You should do a series of videos comparing your favorite Waves plugins to alternatives (free and paid). Should be fairly easy as several companies have surpassed Waves in sound quality and functionality over the years.
I second this
I'll vote for MCDSP first.
Totally agree with you Barry. For me it was obvious that they were going to rescind this stupid arrogant decision because failure to do so would destroy their company completely. The elephant in the room is WUP which for many years has pushed waves customers to the edge of the cliff. This subscription only move finally pushed us down the cliff. The only way waves can fully recover from this is to abolish their ridiculous WUP. All other companies are smart and humble enough to know that you can't charge your customers for updates.
100% agreed on that ridiculous WUP
Real talk thank you so much.
I’m planning on building a home studio. I’m going to be spending a big chunk of money & that’s to videos like this… I’m not going to spend money on Waves. Thanks for the FYI!
I agree next stop bankruptcy
I will not buy any more from waves
I had already moved on from Waves before this latest d****** move but I completely agree with everyone who is out and won't be going back. There will be some (plenty) of professionals who are deeply invested with Waves plugs and have used them regularly for a long time and will be well served by this backtrack. Which, let's be honest is what Waves should have done in the first place (offer subs and continue support of perpetual licenses). I won't be judging anyone who chooses to work with Waves, whatever works for you, but I really think they done stuffed up and a lot of people will find alternatives now. Mmmmm the smell of burning bridges in the morning. Smells like...fail.
Imagine working for Waves customer support. I can't imagine those calls
Love your passion on this post Barry.. it's only a handful of plugs I love that will keep me there.. for the moment..
I'm going to err on the side of mercy here. Well done to Waves Audio for recognizing their mistake, acknowledging their customers, and making the change to correct it. They're human - they made a mistake and they're making amends. Time to move on and make music. I think they know they got their ass well and truly kicked on this one. I might be too naive and kind, but I'm going to give them some slack on this one. I can understand why folks are frustrated, though. At the end of the day, this shows the power of people coming together and standing up against the corporates.
No, they are not human. They are a company. It consists of many humans, but it is not human. Companies don't even have the same laws applied to them.
And those many humans in a company, create chains of responsibility, to prevent mistakes of one, or even of several, to go through. Ideas are being researched, weighted if it's worth being implemented and what problems it may cause.
And this "subscription-only" disaster went through the whole chain of responsibility, and got signed to execution by their top executive officer.
Now, what Waves did to fix this responsibility failure of theirs? I haven't heard of any big name resignations there. The chain of people, responsible for this failure, is still there, still being responsible for things. How the company can be trusted not to screw their customers again, if people who were responsible for it are still there, still being responsible?
And amends... What amends? I haven't seen any amends. None of my older plugins were WUPed to current versions. They didn't give me any 5 free plugins to choose from. All they did is promised (not even done yet) to get it back to how it was before. They can take money from the salary of their executive officer to cover it. He obviously didn't do the job for which he is payed big money.
It's like a burglar being caught with his hand in my pocket, takes his hand out and says: "Ok, I wouldn't take anything from you. No hard feelings, ok?" Yeah, sure - you can keep standing behind me any time (NOT!)
@@DolphinWave they are human according to the law. If they were not human, then they all simply would be regarded as being criminals. To regard companies as humans for the law is still the biggest criminal scam ever.
Chill out Barry - you beat up so many companies for their poor practices and here is a company that although they made a huge mistake are taking action to fix it and returned to a preferred license model for their customers. Did you ever make any big mistakes in your many years of professional life? I use several different plug-in makers but I have used waves for over 15 years and quite honestly I'm happy with most of their plugins. Like many others, I think they made a big mistake trying to move to subscription-only but they seem to be resolving that so maybe it's time to see how this all plays out.
Barry, you are absolutely right!
I loved the honesty here! :)
The bass on that intro track is nuts! It literally rumbles on my smart phone speaker! 😅
Wow, I was thinking the same thing Barry…it’s too late. They’ve shown their hand.
I couldn’t wait for this video
yes Barry ... right on brother
Just cane across your channel and i agree SO MUCH. TOGETHER we have the power. Def subbed! 🎉
100% with you!
I’m often too long-winded in my comments, but not this time. Barry, THANK YOU for being “the tip of our spear”
Great and thoughtful post
I completely and absolutely agree, we together must kick these asses and search ANYWHERE. Thank you for your words, be unite here friends. Love and respect, Joe.
You’d be a good carpenter Barry, you hit the nail on the head!! I own a few Waves plugins but now I’m finished with them. I did the same thing with Pro Tools.
You are spot on Barry, and you couldn't miss because all you did was tell the truth.
And you did make a difference, we all did, because as you said aswell, together, numbers + resistance = power.
We stood up to a bully and we won.
As long as we only ever resist when forced to, then the power never loses credibility. (some people protest at the drop of a hat).
In the meantime, we've always been good paying customers.
Right on Barry, right on!
I love what you do for musicians/ engineers. I love how you fight for us. As for me, I forgive you waves. I need my CLA 7A 😂
I gave up on them a couple of years ago - the ONLY company that made me buy my plugins over & over!
i credit you for opening my eyes about waves. i'll never use their s/w again.
I abandoned Waves 5 years ago and went with Softube, never looked back.
Mr. Johns, you nailed it.