5 Mistakes DIYers make using metal electrical boxes
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Don't make these mistakes with metal electrical boxes
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If you are starting to do electrical work in your home you will likely run into a metal electrical box either because it is what was originally installed or your area typically uses metal boxes instead of the plastic boxes you see in many DIY electrical videos. Here are 5 mistakes you want to avoid making when using metal electrical boxes.
Everyday Home Repair Home Electrical Basics video playlist: • Home Electrical Basics
0:00 Introduction
1:09 Mistake 1
2:22 Mistake 2
3:53 Mistake 3
4:25 Mistake 4
5:49 Mistake 5
6:40 Wrapup
The information provided in this video is for informational purposes only. Usage of any information in this video is done at your own risk and the host and producer accept no liability. You should consult the local building code and requirements in your area and abide by all regulations when taking on any project in your home. Consult a licensed professional if you feel uncomfortable with any of the information in this video.
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I learned how to properly use a metal box, I have never used a plastic box, in my high school electricity class. We did house wiring in grade 11, back in the late 60s. Back then, we used Marr connectors, instead of Wago, to join wires. One mistake I saw, in our own home, was in the receptacle near the kitchen sink. When the house was built, in the mid 50s, grounded outlets were only required near the kitchen sink and laundry tub. The "electrician", who wired that outlet, instead of extending the ground wire from the box to the outlet, used a nail under the outlet ground screw and touching the metal box!!!. By the time I saw that, many years later, the tip of the nail had rusted away, leaving the outlet ground terminal ungrounded!
Thank you very much for the very clear explanations.
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Thank you Sir for all information you give 🙏
Thanks! I'm glad you've found the videos helpful.
Very well-prepared and presented video. Liked and subscribed!
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Great video. Thanks!
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Great info!
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Excellent, thank you.
I'm glad you found the video helpful
Thanks. This is a great video.
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
The older bx wires had no ground wire but an aluminum grounding strip that is difficult to secure to the box.
Nice video many folks would find useful since metal boxes in new residential construction are not nearly as commonplace as they were many years ago. Nonetheless there are certain applications around the house where plastic boxes are unacceptable, and we need to understand the differences in order to make safe electrical installations. As a side note, although not required, I like to wrap the switch or receptacle with a few layers of electrical tape before installing it in a metal box, especially in multi-gang switch boxes containing dimmers with screws instead of wire leads. You'll thank yourself for taking this extra step after a few times blowing up a $30 dimmer.
In some areas, like where I live, metal boxes are still the norm for residential usage. I've rarely seen a plastic box at the big box store here.
Sorry to hear of the dimmer being ruined. Hopefully by sharing it here someone else can avoid that issue.
I’m not an electrician but I’m suddenly interested in the field. Can you name some instances where the metal box is necessary aside from code mandating it?
Also is it ok to j hook the ground wire around the box screw or you should only secure it to one side as shown in the video above?
I don't understand the bit about the dimmer
We use a flat cable in the UK very similar with a ground/earth cable with no sheathing we call it Twin and Earth but we don't leave the bare copper cable exposed we add a sheath.
I was wondering why the switches in my 1978 house didn't have ground wires connected to them, rather only to the metal box. I now know from a little tid bit where you mentioned it. Thanks.
Also should have noted that if back-wiring the device, turn all the side screws in tightly to avoid possible contact with the metal box.
unless its the 4th of july
If by back-wiring you are referring to stabbing the stripped wire into a hole on the back of the device (also known as speed wiring) I do not recommend this method. It is not as secure and doesn't allow any changes later. I like Scott's video on this topic here: ruclips.net/video/SSfPzunEQ9g/видео.html.
I agree that in all cases any unused screws should be tightened down so they are out of the way and do not cause issues. In this video I was focusing mostly on the correct grounding of metal boxes.
I always tighten the side screws and then add a wrap or two of electrical tape to cover them.
@@upgradeyourhomediy ruclips.net/video/nr5gPJQuLic/видео.html What do you think of this video?
@@upgradeyourhomediy Back-wiring is inserting a straight conductor into a hole that has two metal plates that tightly sandwich the conductor as the side screw is tightened: it's a clamp. You loosen the screw to release the wire. Higher quality spec-grade devices have this termination method.
Thanks for the video. Very helpful. In the last situation with a short ground and adding a dimmer switch, can I use a straight through wago connector and screw only the long ground from the dimmer switch under the box screw?
I have seen conduit used as the ground and self grounding receptacle used will it pass inspection
Most older steel boxes didn't have those grounding screws and required a green grounding clip to be installed. It might be nice if you addressed that problem with older steel boxes.
Simply insert a rubber grommet to protect the sharp edges of the wire entry hole.
@@A2Z1Two3 I think you misunderstood his comment. What he is saying is the older boxes didn't come with a grounding screw already installed in the box when installed years ago. You could then add a little green metal clip which was attached/slid on the side of the metal box to achieve the same grounding purpose.
Use the unused wire clamp hole. if the box has clamps). In the olden days we used them exclusively because it was easier to access on the bottom
Those clips are still readily available. You can also drill/tap your own threaded hole for a 10-32 ground screw, I've done that on some old boxes I've later grounded.
You just addressed the problem for old boxes!. A rated clip, or.....drill a hole and use a self tapping machine screw or screw w a nut and bare copper wire, green wire, green w yellow stripe. Self grounding receptacles. BX....
Here's another grounding mistake that was actually a fairly common practice 65 years ago or so. In the early to mid 1950s when NM cable with a ground wire begin to hit the market while 2 prong receptacles were still the norm, the electricians often wrapped the ground wire around the jacket of the cable before inserting it into the box and tightening the clamp. Assuming the whole circuit was wired with this new fangled grounded NM and all metal boxes you'd end up with what are known as "grounded two prong outlets "
That’s how my split level was, built in 1960. All the two prong outlets I removed I was able to replace with 3 because low and behold, there was a ground wire!
I started off on painting/ drywall mud project in my house but decided I wanted to replace all of the new work plastic boxes that were installed in this house in 1990 with new work metal boxes. Reason being, the plastic boxes that were installed were of horrible quality and on just about every electrical receptacle that had frequent use, the plastic screw hole on the plastic boxes has cracked/stripped and so the only thing holding any back tension on the receptacles is the wiring itself. To make matters worse, the electricians used the old back stab wiring ports on every receptacle that I've taken out so far. So, with the stripped screws and back stab connections I had something that could easily turn into a house fire so I decided on using metal boxes b/c they're not going to strip or crack like the plastic ones and will have strong screw connection for a lifetime. I have good bit of drywall tools and experience and so I'm cutting the bottom 2 ft of drywall out in the guest bedroom where I started in b/c I'm also running brand new NM-b cable as well and with the drywall out of the way it makes installation of the boxes and fishing the new NM-B cable sooooo much easier. Thats also why I'm installing new work metal boxes instead of old work metal boxes. I don't like the old work boxes b/c so many of them come loose over time because they're secured to the drywall and not a stud. They're also prone to cause the drywall mud around them to crack. For the new receptacles, I'm going with some high-grade receptacles to replace the old ones (I think they were about $25 each). They are significantly heavier than the old cheap ones. I'm also adding an AFCI receptacle on the first box from the breaker and it will protect the other 4 downstream receptacles/fan/light. I bought the exact Wagos you have on the video (3 & 5 port). The first metal box will be an AFCI and it will have 1 load cable entering the box & 2 line cables exiting the box. Normally that would have been 5 ground wires tied together for that box but b/c the receptacles are self-grounding, that reduces it to 4. I learned how to do the box fill calculations recently and found out the box I originally had was not quite big enough so I had to up it to a 2-gang size box b/c they didn't make a 1 gang that would be large enough. Had to buy a special wall plate since its only 1 receptacle going in a 2-gang box. I do have a question for you though regarding the self-grounding receptacles / metal box- I had never heard of a self-grounding receptacle until I bought these but my understanding of them is that they're built differently and so when you screw a self-grounding receptacle to a metal box, it essentially bonds the receptacle to the metal box and so there is no need for 2 separate grounding pigtails ( 1 for the receptacle and 1 for the box) - instead you only need one pigtail. My question is when you tie that 1 grounding pigtail to the line/load ground wires, does code require you to tie the other end that 1 grounding pigtail to specifically the box or specifically to the grounding screw on the self-grounding receptacle? I wouldn't think it would matter b/c either way provides the grounding current a path back to the box, but does code or inspectors have a preference on which one you should tie the grounding pigtail to?
The last house I moved out of was built in the 50s. Most plugs weren't grounded properly and 95% of them had live and neutral swapped because whoever renovated the house obviously wasn't an electrician. So, they put every receptacle in wrong.
Being a guitar player, it wreaked havoc on my tube amp. The noise was terrible.
Thank God I moved into a newer house that was built in the late 80s. When I plugged my amp and guitar up and turned them on, it was so quiet I thought maybe the power didn't turn on lol.
When using Wago/wire nuts, I prefer that the Source romex ground wire be the one under the screw. The box stays grounded in case of other fails
That is my preference as well.
@@upgradeyourhomediythe wire wrap around the screw is your best clamp as well. I get rid of those stupid clamps. They are very sharp, take up space and not needed if you splice/fold properly.
6:39. The existing ground wire is on the wrong side of the screw. Swap it to the right side and put the pigtail on the left.
That's what I would have done if the existing wire was longer. I didn't feel that it was long enough in this case. Sometimes you have to adjust based on what previous people did :)
In the UK, the earth (grounding) wire has to be sleeved, and most accessories have recessed line and neutral terminals to prevent shorting. Don't know why it's never been adopted in the US.
I would add one edit to your list for DIY'ers using Metal boxes when Romex and other non class wires.
Even when secured, the sharp edges of most boxes can cut into wire making the box live. Add bushings to protect your unclad wires be they Romex, Solid, Stranded Etc. Most DIY'ers think the bushings are for water proofing. I see it everyday.
I always like to run the ground wire(s) to the screw which will be nearest the neutral lead as well. A lesser chance of an errant ground lead touching a hot terminal. In my jurisdiction it is metal boxes all the way.
Hi-
Thanks for the video. I have one question. In the video you connected the ground wire and a separate pigtail ground to the ground screw; then connected both to a Wago connector. My question is why did you need the pigtail ground if the incoming ground wire is already connected to the ground screw? Also could you have just pigtailed from the ground screw to the Wago, and then connected all other incoming ground wires to the Wago? Thanks!
I installed a big, chunky GFCI outlet in a metal box. The outlet body was so large that it caused the hot screw to short out to the grounded box. I turned off the breaker after it popped and insulated the screws with electrical tape and also inserted a plastic tab between the outlet and the box as insulation. Never had that happen with light switches or standard outlets, but now I always use tape and an insulator tab whenever I install metal boxes.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The big GFCI outlets are always an issue. Even the slimmer ones can be an issue in a multi-gang box that has a few wires coming in.
All the gfci outlets we use have recessed screws but you can wrap in electrical tape for safety.
Very informative, great job!
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
The ground wire mentioned in the video is actually and technically called a bonding wire. Bonding and grounding is way different technically.
First part no, this is the equipment grounding conductor, at least for US electrical code. Perhaps you're not in the US.
Second part yes, there's a difference
And I totally agree with your other comment, wagos are trash 🗑
@@realtundratrash NEC and CEC are similar, bonding conductor is the definition used , the grounded conductor is the neutral and the bonds go back to the point of ground. The NEC and CEC are very similar in the definitions. I’m using the CEC as I am a Canadian Electrician.
@@j2o3sh EGC
Do you have a video on wiring a junction box?
Talk about errors, my family and I were recently forced out of our home due to multiple code violations including no heat or hot water for months in upstate New York. I didn’t realize that for five years we were living with 100 amp service and only two 20 amp circuit breakers were working and hooked up to everything except the oven. Portable heaters were on low 24/7 and kicked the breaker 3 times a day causing multiple daily trips to the basement which was flooded with fecal water sewage. Absolute nightmare, boiling water to wash dishes, bathe etc. couldn’t cook food without tripping the breaker. No lights on ever, we used rechargeable led work lights and battery operated lights. 😞 Homeless in a hotel atm, family split up and looking for a new apartment.
I have noticed in the last few years (USA), metal boxes no longer come with 'included' grounding screws, but you MUST purchase them separately ! How cheep are those manufacturers getting!
I haven't noticed that trend here in Canada. Hope it doesn't cross the border!
Keep the bean counters AWAY from the electricians. The ground screws REFLECT SAFETY, the bean counters don't think safety, they are counting beans, inaccurately, because an electrical (no ground, shock) accident lawsuit is NOT factored in the cost of metal box ground screws , that the beans counters didn't want to include.
So the SAFETY moral of this story is DON'T be cheap, put in the grounding screw and add the penny to the price, and don't let bean counters compromise safety.
Most metal boxes never came with ground screws. Only metal wp boxes, disconnects, and panels come with ground screws because you need special types and sizes of ground screws.
@@ianbelletti6241 You my friend have been buying faulty boxes. There is a ground screw in every box, no matter the type or size. At least in canada there is.
I will admit that sometimes they fall out in transit, which is annoying.
@@lazzerker1 in the US, the standard metal boxes do not come with ground screws. 6x6 and larger metal boxes as well as weather proof metal boxes, disconnects, and electrical boxes come with grounding or bonding screws. I think you're looking at handy boxes, old work boxes, 4" square boxes, and 4 11/16" square boxes which never came with ground screws. The reason that they don't come with ground screws is that a huge portion of those box sized are used for lv and data applications where you don't need a ground. Why pay for a ground screw that you don't need?
I came across something different a few years ago. I have done a lot of LAN cabling in my time. A few years ago, while working in a new warehouse, I found I was running the LAN cables to a box with a divider, which separated the low voltage side from the AC side. The divider was made of the same steel as the rest of the box, so there was no chance of live AC touching the LAN cables. I saw that only on that one job and not since.
Thanks for sharing. I've never heard of such a box.
I have seen those dividers on the plastic boxes- and at the chain box stores, they only stock one large size box, and I think it was new work only, whereas I needed an old work box. It's only UL / code compliant with that one size but... cmon, it's a plastic divider so I carefully cut it to fit (the old work box has the guide slots anyway) and it fits perfectly. Never seen them for metal boxes tho.
@@stargazer2504 I have only seen it the one time and it was definitely steel. In fact, I have never worked with a plastic box or even seen one, for that matter.
those are some great tips I see too many times that the wires are cut way to short !
I'm glad you found the video helpful. I always prefer to leave longer wires to give myself flexibility in the future if I change the outlet or switch. With more smart switches being used it comes in very handy.
Interesting however plastic boxes and Romex are against code here. We always use metal boxes and conduit.
Commercial and Residential ?
@@jamesborton9237Yes, we have very strong unions here.
Our house has very old metal boxes. We had to reverse the polarity of several receptacles and discovered that the receptacle had a grounding wire going from its green screw to the plate tightening screw at the bottom of the box (that is used to secure the romex). Then the ground wire from the romex was secured to the plate tightening screw at the top of the box (also supposed to be used to secure the romex). We are not electricians and can’t afford one to remedy this. Does anyone know if we need to replace the metal boxes and redo all of this, or if the method the house came with is ok?
I think of a continuum of practice being bad practice, code, and best practice. Best practice can never violate code. For me, best practice is to reduce splices in the ground wire, so I run it long, wrap it around the ground screw, and then run it to the outlet or use it as a pigtail for multiple grounds. I don't like G-clips because they are more affected by corrosion, in spite of being allowed by code. To skip tightening down the cable clamps on the type of box shown requires one to neglect an obvious feature that is staring them in the face. While I've seen that happen, it's pretty rare. What is much more common is for the installer to fail to install cable clamps in other knockouts and in handy boxes, which do not have built in clamps. The other mistake is probably made out of ignorance, and that is overloading a box. Many DIYers have no understanding that there are code limits to the number of conductors in a box, based on its volume. BTW, there is a small benefit to using a plastic box on an exterior wall, as it creates less of a thermal bridge than does a metal box, as long as its depth is not greater.
NEC 2020 says that the ground connection in the box should not be used for any other purpose. So you cant screw the ground conductor to the box AND use it for the device. A pigtail/second wire must be used.
The ground wire to the box (metal) is a redundant exercise, as most if not all switches and outlets have grounded frames. It is still a good practice yo ensure secure grounding.
Read the NEC regarding grounding the box. Removal of the device negates the grounding of the box.
Where to begin... Metal boxs where the outlet is wired backwards is a classic, suicide grounds - the ground of and outlet jumped to the neutral or the ground off them metal box connected to the neutral. Light switches wired to switch neutral rather than hot. 3 way switches using the bare ground as not a ground.
This one is common one around here but metal 2 gang surface boxs on the end of an extension cord that is 14 AWG, with dual duplex 20 amp sockets on a metal wall plate, romex clamp holding the cord rather than a gland. and on the other end of the cord, you guessd it, ground pin cut off.. I admit I do have a collection of self built special purpose extension cords myself but they are all done properly.
Gotta love the over stuffed in wall metal box where everything it too short, daisy chained and no matter how many breakers you turn off, something it still live, oh cant leave out the fluff of years and mice feces or bug carcasses...
Stud boxs in the wall no where near a stud, just hanging on by faith, wall plates fastened with self tapping screws.
Metal boxs fastened to a stub with pipe strapping and metal ducting tape, I see this mostly around HVAC equipment. I do admire the ability to improvise but yeah.. Ok I have used the metal tape to cover an accidental knockout until I got a proper plug for it.
The use of wire nuts that are too small or not at all and it's just a layer of tape or better yet those automotive crimp on butt connectors.
Thanks for sharing! What a collection of examples. Do enough work on even your own home and you will end up with plenty of examples of strange decisions made by people who previously worked on the electrical system. Always research and verify before starting your work to stay safe.
I always splice 1 pigtail to go to the box, and 1 for each device to the grounding conductor using a wire nut. It's much simpler.
Whichever method works best for you and is safe is the one you should use. Thanks for sharing so that others know an option that they may find works best for them.
Screw in any extra terminal screws not used on recept installation, keeping them from possibly shorting to box. 😉
Question - can you use both grounding screws in a box? If you have three wires, can you put two on one screw as shown, and the third on the second screw?
Thank you.
Not ideal
I live in an older home, 1950s, how can I tell if the metal box is grounded? And if there is no ground wire, then what?
Am I seeing this correct? At @6:25 the white wire, which would be neutral where I live and not what you would connect to a ground, is entering under the screw from the wrong direction.
No, the white wire is closer to the camera than the ground wire and the camera angle makes it look like they are the same wire. The white wire is not connected to the ground screw. The short ground is in the wrong side but when it has been cut off already often you don't have enough to move it to the other side. Thanks for checking.
@@upgradeyourhomediy Ah OK thanks! I could not see that watching on my phone's screen.
@@tornadokat Though, hopefully it is marked with black tape or equivalent to indicate that it's a hot wire (for a switch loop) and not a neutral wire.
Loads of steel boxes have no ground screw. If the ground wire is attached to the switch or receptacle ground screw, the box will be grounded when the switch/receptacle is screwed to the box.
If there is only the one cable coming into the box that may work fine (if it complies with code in the area). If there are multiple cables I would prefer a grounding screw on the box.
@@upgradeyourhomediy I totally agree. Much more reliable connection 👍
Depending on age, older boxes may have a hole labeled GR, Use a Green screw purchased at most home stores. These also come with a green pigtail. If the box is older, use a Green Ground Clip, which jams over the box edge and holds the wire.
Thanks for adding that information.
"the box will be grounded when the switch/receptacle is screwed to the box"
I was taught to not do that.
Supply houses sell bundles of green insulated ground stingers. Most come with a loop and a ground screw on one end. You screw it into the threaded hole in the box and pigtail all the grounds together. Always use a wirenut. Why? Because by code most multiple wire connections are required to be mechanically sound without the device holding them together. For example if you take three neutral wires and remove the wire nut the wires must remain in mechanical contact with each other by being twisted together. You can't do that with a wago. So wago's would be illegal on a multi wire branch circuit. Personally after forty years as a commercial electrician I truly don't trust any type of spring pressure connector to hold a good connection for decades. I've often run across work done fifty or more years ago that was just as good as the day it was done. Years ago a friend asked me to come over and check her refrigerator. It was out in the garage and the cord cap and outlet had melted. I pulled it apart to find it had been wired with aluminum. Lots of wire so I cut off all the crystalized wire and put a cu/al receptacle in the box and replaced the cord cap on the fridge. Turned it on and it worked. I asked the neighbor why his custom built home was wired with aluminum. He said the builder wanted him to decide for copper or aluminum so he talked to his father in law who was an electrical engineer and his fil told him the aluminum was just as good as the copper and cheaper so go with it. At the time aluminum was legal and widely used. Unfortunately time would prove it to be a bad decision. I expect spring pressure connectors will eventually be as unpopular as quick wire receptacles.
Why the specific need for a "#2 square screwdriver"?
Interesting that on your last example of the clipped ground, you put it on the wrong side of the ground screw. It would also have been easier, and maybe better to take advantage of the second ground screw for the pigtail.
Also you noted that the blastocyst box did not have a ridge next to the ground screw, but it does have a small bump which serves the same purpose.
Why is there a Ground and Neutral wire. The neutral wire is grounded in the main box so it seems one would work. Is it a load issue or possibly an open/broken wire issue, or extra safety issue??
The neutral wire being connected to metal box is an error and should not be done. Ground should remain separate from neutral from the main box onward through the house.
At 6:26 mistake 3 is made
If light switches do not need a ground, why is there a grounding screw on the switch???
6:20 is it legit to screw the green ground wire from the switch directly to the screw?
Yes, that will work. I have just found that most of those wires are short and make it difficult to get the wire back to the screw. I also find that stranded wires sometimes separate under the screw. That's why I prefer a wire nut or Wago for the stranded ground wire on a dimmer switch.
It’s safe to install electric tape around the screws outlet ?
It is safe but I don't do it because it is not necessary and it makes any work on that outlet harder in the future. Some prefer to do it as an added safety measure.
It is also good practice to wrap a few layers of electrical tape around the terminals on the outlet to avoid any contact with the metal box.
That is an arguable point. Electricians differ on this, and code does not address it, that I’m aware of.
@@TomCee53yea that's a landlord hackjob. Don't do that.
Mistake #5 shows an example of a ground wire cut at the screw. This wire is on the wrong side of the screw (mistake #3). The pigtail was installed correctly, but the ground wire should have been corrected first.
You are correct that the cut off wire is on the wrong side of the screw. Often it is cut so short that it won't properly go under the screw if it is moved over. This is the situation shown in the video. When it can't be moved you are forced to keep it on the side it was originally installed on and you have to be careful to make sure it stays under the screw.
For components like a NEMA 5 outlet that needs grounding, isn't the component frame connected to the component ground? In this case, isn't a metal box connected to a grounded component grounded through the component frame, component ground screw, and ground wire? Why does the box need to be separately grounded?
I just took JW test, was co fused why he wanted me to ground evrything. It was all ran with EMT, I would think it's in case the screws come loose to ensure evrything still grounded? But yea in residential setting as soon you out that outlet in its grounded threw the screws.
@@blakek1043 Thanks. That makes sense.
I was taught to ALWAYS run the ground wire to the box and then to the component.
@@James_Knott Thanks. John
I have seen boxes with 4 or more wires going into it and the people that installed it had two hot wires hooked the wrong way on one screw witch had caused a problem for other Receptacles down-the-line.
Never understood why they couldn't just pig tail the wires instead of fighting with putting too many wires on one screw
If you haven't heard of pigtailing then you may not know it is an option. With four wires going in they should really have a two-gang box due to the code on how many wires can go into a box of a certain size.
If you convert an old two prong outlet into a GFCI one and the metal box is not grounded, it will not be safe. If the live wire touches the box it energize any equipment case and the GFCI will NOT protect. One would need a GFCI upstream to protect.
Will need a “ Not Grounded Sticker”. provided in the box?
Why aren't all videos that clear!? Thanks!
I’m glad you found the video helpful.
Last picture of metal box, white wire is on wrong side of grounding screw.
The camera angle makes it look like the white wire is under the screw but it is not. The bare copper ground wire is behind the white wire and is under the screw. Yes, it ideally would be on the other side but sometimes they cut the wire too short to move it over to the other side, which was the situation in this case. Thanks for checking.
Should we use a conduit?
If it is required by code in your area then you must use a conduit. In our area it is not required.
The sharp edges around the hole in a metal box is much safer when you insert a rubber grommet first .
The purpose of the clamp is to also hold the cable in place. It’s seems like overkill, but is code.
The 5th mistake mentioned is not leaving enough ground wire to connect to the device being inserted into the box after connecting the ground wire to the metal box. There are some ways around that. Many new devices are self-grounding and will pick up the ground from the metal box itself, no ground wire needed. The device will have to say in its specs that it is self-grounding, but a way to tell is that usually they'll have a brass clip where one of the mounting screws goes through. Be sure to read the instructions, if there's a washer on the back to hold the screw in place before insertion, that washer may also need to be removed. Another option in the example shown would be to use the other grounding screw in the box to create a pigtail or, if your device comes with wires attached already (and if long enough), connect that ground wire to the other grounding screw.
Thanks for the tip on self-grounding devices. I would want to make sure that the instructions are followed properly so that the ground is made and not missed. The pigtail is another option and I showed that when the ground wire has been cut off - it is about your only option in that situation. Dimmers and smart switches come with ground wires but I usually find them too short and they are stranded wire which doesn't always work well under a grounding screw as it separates when tightened.
"Many new devices are self-grounding and will pick up the ground from the metal box itself, no ground wire needed."
I was taught to not rely on that and ALWAYS properly connect the ground terminal.
@James Knott there's nothing wrong with also running a ground wire. However, I suspect this is an "it's always worked this way" from your teachers. Take a look at where the ground screw is. It's the same metal strap that the self grounding is attached to and the wire connects to the same metal box that the strap attaches to. I could see a problem, though, if the screw holding the strap to the box isn't quite tight, as in the case of leaving it a little loose to adjust the receptacle beneath the face plate. Wiring it in would eliminate that potential issue.
@@wmcomprev My electricity teacher was a licensed electrician. He said do not rely on the mounting, as it might not always be reliable, as you point out.
BTW, I taught him something new. On the first day of grade 9 (Sept 1967), he was teaching the class about resistance and said all conductors had resistance. I then asked "What about superconductors?" He had no idea what I was talking about, as most people had never heard of them back then. However, I had read about them in the encyclopedia I had at home and I then brought that volume in the next day, to show him. IIRC, superconductivity was discovered in 1914, when a physicist immersed lead wire in liquid helium.
@@upgradeyourhomediy You're in Canada, I'm pretty sure CEC requires all receptacles, regardless whether they're designated as "self-grounding" or not, to be bonded to the box with a grounding pigtail to the green screw of the receptacle. This is oddly not required for switches in Canada, however. Here in the USA under NEC, any self-grounded device may be used with a properly bonded metal box.
I had water damage that was going to require major renovations and the contractor doing the estimate said it would require code updates. He stated the metal electrical boxes would need to be replaced because they are only allowed in commercial applications. Does anyone know if metal boxes are forbidden in residential applications in Michigan?
I cant say what the code is in your area BUT I dont think that is the truth.
Try finding local or state code requirements online. Sounds like a upsell.
Dosent sound right,.
This must be the fiftieth, possibly the hundredth, vlog about how to install a device box and they're still not getting them correct???
The think that it worries me is plastic Romex boxes in a comercial or industrial building. Where are the real inspectors especially in California??? I have seen so many illegal installations in comercial buildings that is sad!!!!
Mistake #1 is using metal boxes. There are only a ^maybe^ couple reasons to use metal boxes with NM cable.
In some areas, like where I live in Ontario, metal boxes are the standard and it is hard to find anything else at a store. They are also often found in older homes when they were much more common everywhere.
@@upgradeyourhomediy Ahhhhh, Canaduh :). Where the panels are mounted sideways. That explains it :) When I started wiring in the early 70's, metal boxes were still common in the SW USA but the transition was started.. NM boxes were the best thing to happen to electrical construction methods.
My panel is mounted vertically :) I see a mix of panel orientation here. Seems to mostly be about what space they had when it was installed.
@@upgradeyourhomediy Mounting a panel sideways is not allowed in the USA because the switch handle for an ON breaker must be north, east, or west; and OFF must be south, east, or west. So we can only mount a panel at 0 or 180 degrees (if the panel manufacturer allows it).
hate those wago connectors. i've replaced plenty of burnt out ones, they simply don't hold up to any current. BTW 10 year electrician speaking
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think they have been used in Europe for decades so I wonder if people aren't installing them properly.
@@upgradeyourhomediy Well perhaps its because Europe uses 240 for wall receptacles so that cuts the amperage in half. Usually they burn out on bathroom and kitchen circuits which usually have higher load. Contractors love them because they're fast, but they will never be anywhere near as good as a twisted splice
Thanks for helping us all learn more from your decade of experience. I appreciate you taking the time to share.
@@realtundratrash They are rated for 32A in the 4mm² version and 40A in the 6mm² version. The two versions can be distinguished by their model number 221-4XX or 221-6XX. There's even a version available for hazardous environments with explosive atmospheres. And they can also be overloaded before they start to burn. BTW even if the housing is melted, the connectors inside still work. The actual copper wire will fail first in most cases. How can you burn them out? Conductor damaged during stripping off the insulation? We use such connectors for decades here, before the shown 221 we used the older 222 models that had the same ratings, but required more space in boxes and were harder to open than the 221.
And also there are cheap Chinese knock-offs on the market that look like them. Their quality is questionable, some are good and some not. I wouldn't rely on that.
@@Marcel_Germann I don't really care what they're rated for because I've seen several legit wago brand fail under load. After a few years of higher load the thin piece of steel that contracts the wire DO burn up. In my opinion that's not only annoying but unsafe. I'll stick to direct contact through a wire nut. Same reason I don't wire though receptacles or use stab ins on switches. The engineers can preach all day about how it's rated the same, but in the real world they fail. Again, they have become popular because they save on labor cost, in my opinion, at the expense of longevity
Typically the bonding screw electricians will loop around the bonding screw and the others will be pigtailed (the bond then goes to the device) depending on the situations . Waggo connectors are shit.
agree Waggo crap
Agree had to replace them on a three light horse barn. Went back with
wire nuts.
Why did you have to replace them?
@@freda1078
There's a dude on youtube who does honest tests. He has no affiliation with any of the manufacturers of the products he tests. Very well known and respected. He tested wagos and wirenuts. He abused the shit out of them. He ran way too much current through them, etc. The Wago did every bit as good as the wirenut.@@consumersgasman8376
From an electrician: most of these issues mentioned are also common to plastic boxes. Specific to steel boxes: don’t enter more than one cable together under one half of the clamp, make sure the clamp is approved for the type of cable you are entering, make sure you are using boxes for their intended purpose, box fill limitations must be adhered to as standard size steel boxes are much smaller than standard size plastic boxes, ensure neutral wire does not contact side of box or afci circuits will trip.
Thanks for your valuable information, it will help many others.
Seems a lot of newer outlets have have attachment point for the ground wire to metal that also either is or makes contact with the metal mounting bracket of the outlet. This mounting bracket then touches the metal box. Doesn't this ground the box as all are in contact?
@@Driver8takeabreak yes. You are right, but the authority builds redundancy into the connection and so it wants you to put ground wire under screw. It would be much easier to have a short circuit to box in a metal box or have an afci trip in a metal box if the neutral wire touches anything metal.
@@starke6666 how do you ensure the neutral wire doesnt touch the box when pushing the outlet into place in a metal box?
@@chrisortiz8072 thanks for asking. The neutral conductor insulation can touch the side of the steel box. But no contact can be made between the neutral screw/ground wire/ steel box. It will cause an arc fault breaker to trip. If the circuit is wired with one it is very annoying as an electrician to have to ensure this.
Thanks for the video. Question when you removed the knockout hole cover do you use rubber grommet to protect the wire from the sharp edge
The metal boxes I use have internal cable clamps so there is no need for a grommet after the knockout is removed. If the box does not have internal cable clamps I either use a plastic grommet or a metal clamp that attaches to the inside of the box and secures the cable as it enters the box.
@@upgradeyourhomediy Thank you
I don't think connecting the ground wire to the metal box does anything useful when using romex (as opposed to metal conduit, flex or rigid). The ground happens back at the main panel. The ground wire is connected to the ground bar which is connected to a ground rod. If metal conduit is used, the metal box is grounded back to the panel. Please explain how grounding the box does anything useful when using romex.
By connecting the metal box to the ground wire that is grounded back at the panel as you describe, it ensures that in case the live wire or terminal screw contacts the box, it is protected.
@@upgradeyourhomediy I figured that's what you would say.
If that happens, you did a poor job connecting the wires in the box. I guess it can't hurt.
@@SBKid58 Grounding a metal box is a code requirement especially when using Romex. If you remove the receptacle with the power on, and the box is not grounded it would be live if the hot wire contacts it, and will not trip the breaker. If the box is grounded, the breaker would trip because the circuit path will be connected, aka bonded to the neutral wire at the main electrical panel and return via the transformer to trip the breaker. The grounding rod has nothing to do with this process, as it serves a different purpose.
@@surferdude642 I stand corrected. I never noticed any of my electricians doing that but if it's code, they likely did. I will be on the lookout for that scenario in the future to see if it is done that way.
Isn't it common practice to shut off the breaker when removing a receptacle though?
@@SBKid58 Yes, it is common practice to shut off the breaker and standard procedure for most residential applications. In commercial applications it's not always possible and that's where metal boxes are commonly used. Most of the time in modern residential construction plastic boxes are used, so box grounding would be irrelevant. Metal boxes can absolutely be used in residential applications and the grounding rules would apply.
Sad to see these mistakes
Hopefully this video can help reduce the number of mistakes homeowners make when using metal boxes.
Try doing that with 240V AC similar to what we use in the U.K. Trust me, your mistakes will be a lot more painful.
I think I'll pass on testing that :) Touching a live 120V was enough for me.
Do not use wahoo connections for electrical outlets they cannot handle the a load I've seen too many Wires turning purple and insulation melting walk wahoo connectors are great for doing electrical circuits and lighting low amperage
I've seen them put to the test alongside wirenuts. They sent way too much current through them purposely, and the wago did every bit as well as the wirenut. They both exceeded what they were rated for by a lot.
Mistakes that I have seen in metal electrical boxes. The previous person did not wrap the outlet with electrical tape. Thus if removing the outlet and if the power is still on, the power screw can contact the box and create an arc. Oh that is not fun.
That is definitely not fun! That's why I always recommend to test the outlet to make sure it is off before removing it from the box.
Like most DIY people, a little knowledge can make us dangerous. Even, if it is going into a plastic box, I wrap the outlet or switch with electrical tape. I don' t know who will do this after me. I only have to do the outlet once after getting rid of the previous owners rats nest of wire. @@upgradeyourhomediy
I thought metal boxes were only required for industrial/commercial applications, for the 2nd ground that the conduit affords? Without the conduit running back to the breaker box, metal receptacle boxes are pointless IMO. I've seen some people loosely wrap the entire receptacle with electrical tape, around the terminals. When I see that I think "just use a damn plastic box" lol
Different jurisdictions have different rules. In our area we almost never see or use plastic boxes in residential use. Always check with your local codes and hire a certified electrician if in doubt.
@@upgradeyourhomediy One thing you did not cover is that you are required to leave at least 1/4 inch of the sheath beyond the clamp. This allows the inspector to visually confirm that the clamp is secured on the sheath, not pinching the individual wires and damaging the insulation.
You are correct on leaving enough sheathing. Since I was focusing mostly on the grounding in this video I did not cover the checklist of how to make sure a box and cable is installed correctly. Thanks for adding that for people who will read these comments.
It's rather ironic that they'd go out of their way to use a conductive junction box when you don't want it conducting. It should be isolated from the circuit.
Now you have something extra to ground. Am I missing something or is this one of those elmer fudd things like still using wire nuts?
@@CL-ty6wp In some areas, like where I live, we almost only see metal boxes used. Not sure why but that's the situation where we are. And if you have an older home you'll likely run into metal boxes because that's all they had back then.
you need to mention the amount of wires permitted in an box each has a finite amount of wires allowed!
That is an important topic and one I am considering for a future video since it is not often considered by DIYers. Thanks for confirming that it is a topic to discuss.
Currently NEC does not stipulate for boxes. There are also nylon. When I rise to power, that will change. Only metal boxes will be code. Plastic and nylon will be banned and non code compliant. I hope the NEC pulls their head out of their @$$ soon. Whenever they do, it can't ever be soon enough. A simple light switch DOES require a ground wire. Why would you say it does not ? There is also a grounding screw on the light switch. The switch carried line power and if shorted can shock you if you touch screws or have metal plates.
Just don't buy conductive junction boxes. Most logical solution.
i see in metal boxes the switches and outlets screws are not tape
Generally the screws are not taped because it is not required and it a relatively low risk. Some people prefer to do it and you sometimes see it when opening a box.
There's no real need to tape the screws. Just make sure all the screws are tightened down whether they're in use by a wire or not.
At 6:26, why didn't you put the existing ground wire on the right side of the screw so that tightening the screw pulls the wire in instead of pushing it out? This is literally one of the common mistakes that you complain about!
Often the wire is cut so short that it won't properly go under the screw if it is moved over. This is the situation shown in the video at that time code. When it can't be moved you are forced to keep it on the side it was originally installed on and you have to be careful to make sure it stays under the screw. For any new wires you install, keep them on the correct side of the screw.
@@upgradeyourhomediy I don't know - it sure looks to me as if that wire can be moved, what, a third of an inch to the opposite side? And then, you just put the pigtail on the left side entering from the bottom. But, whatever.
I never understood the metal box concept in homes. I do realize plastic molding technology was not common say in the 1960's and 1970's but for codes requiring metal boxes in residential settings today is absurd. I have worked on many older projects. I do my best to suggest a retro fit of a plastic box in place of metal. However if the person I am working for will not allow it, I will leave them. One thing I do is wrap the electrical device, be it a receptacle or switch, in a high quality rubber electrical tape. This is just another layer of protection against shorting the connections to the box. Here is some advice. If you work on or own an older home that you are remodeling please do these things. If the main panel is a fuse box, replace it with a breaker panel. If the conductors are cloth covered, rewire it. If the conductors are aluminum, definitely rewire it. Rodents love the taste of the vinyl coating on conductors. Check frequently for rodent damage on exposed romex. If they have chewed the sheath tape it and get some pest control. If they have chewed the coating on the conductor, replace it and get some pest control.
Thanks for sharing your advice. In my area almost every box in the big box stores is metal so that's what we use. Don't think its code but just what is available. Its always been that way. I totally agree with the rewiring if at all possible when you encounter old equipment such as a fuse panel, cloth wiring, or aluminum wiring.
@@upgradeyourhomediy metal is cheaper, thats why used in new construction
i have seen plastic boxes themselves catch fire from a fault in a box. never ever seen that in a metal box.
New York city requires Metal and BX. Rats! I love metal boxes and won't even consider plastic. Just more sturdy, tappable, hundreds of choices for rings, extensions and rat proof!
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
KJV Bible
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 2:8-9
KJV Bible
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 10:9-13
KJV Bible
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16
KJV Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 14:6
KJV Bible
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Nice video... I remember when I was about 21 or 22 years old... I made sum electrical boxes out of wood 🪵 and more than ten years later those boxes I made are still in good condition... 🫡😳
Lol.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
KJV Bible
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 2:8-9
KJV Bible
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 10:9-13
KJV Bible
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16
KJV Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 14:6
KJV Bible
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Not breaking off the ears of receptacles or switches when mounting a metal box that is not flush with a wall surface while using a standard wall plate.
use plastic boxes when you can. i ama electrician
In some areas, like where I live, plastic boxes are very rare. Metal boxes are all we see in the big box stores.
@@upgradeyourhomediy , that is interesting. i tell anybody where i live, Louisville, Ky to use plastic boxes where you can. and use deep ones at that. i don,t like jamming wires inboxes. seen that to many times in all my years. if must use metal , use deep 4inch sq with a mud ring.
Metal or plastic if it’s a device box or any other box the continuity of the bond must continue down stream and be also bonded to any non current carry metal parts. If not sure please hire a professional certified electrician instead of watching RUclips videos
Thanks for your contributions to the discussion. Can't agree more that if you are uncomfortable in any way with what anyone is demonstrating, hire the appropriate professional. Goes for electrician, plumber, roofer, etc.
Anyone who says Wagos are crap is someone who clings to old ways with a closed mind. Don't listen to another thing that person says about anything, because that is absolutely not true.
Can they receive 14 and 12 wire?
Sound pretty closed minded yourself. 😂😂
@@davidnoren8260 Different ones recieve different size ranges. They are labeled, although I wish it was larger and clearer to see the size at a glance.
If anything that was covered is new to you, do not try it yourself without having a pro look it over.
Step 1. use a plastic box!
Wago's are CRAP!
Then why do they have a UL rating?
I’m not too sure why someone who is not an electrician make these videos…
Commercial electrician here. Don’t put more than 1 wire under a ground screw, simply use a ground pigtail and attach all your grounds to said pigtail. Also there are more metal boxes out there than the one he showed; always use an appropriate box connector to ensure the wire is kept both secure and free from damage. Also be aware metal device boxes aren’t always allowed in residential wiring based on jurisdiction for new work.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
6:21 One of the ground wires is in backwards. You're welcome.
Ideally I would have moved that short wire over to the correct side but felt that I did not have enough wire to do it safely. Sometimes we are left with less than ideal situations from previous work that was done.
I thought that I might pick up a point or two. Not happening. I will not use romex. In my opinion romex should be illegal. MC is the cable of my choice. Don’t lecture me on the correct connectors. I’m an NEC kind of guy.
nothing new here except the connectors, all just basic knowledge,
Glad you knew all the content in the video. Hoping to help those who don't have your level of experience.
It makes me cringe when I see a guy using wahoo connectors for electrical outlets please do not use these please do not start a fire.
Mistake number 6, using Wago connectors. Using them is no different than back wiring a receptacle, everyone know not to do that.
Good video I guess, but let’s be perfectly honest, residential guys are dangerous as it is, let alone all the home owners trying to play electrician. Commercial/industrial journeyman can easily do residential work, but it doesn’t work the other way. Same thing with utility side. Lineman can’t do what a commercial/industrial journeyman can, but we can easily work utility lines. There’s a reason we cost what we cost, we’re part mechanic, part engineer and part fabricator and installer. We are the king of all trades.
Mm
Well you lost my confidence when you referred tot he BARE copper wire as the "Ground Wire". It is not Ground, but rather BONDING wire. It has been called the Bond wire for many years and any expert should be referring to it in the proper terminology. I also read many comments as saw many of the sparky experts also referring to the bond wire as the ground wire. Sometime trusting You Tube is a bad thing
Why is it called a bonding wire I have only heard this from one other person a long time ago but even in the army where terminology is a big deal it was known as a ground wire just asking for real open to learn something new every day
Because the average DYI will 100% understand "grounding" wire, and not "bonding" wire. What, it want's to take me out for a beer?
"Bonding is the electrical connection of all exposed metal items not designed to carry electricity in a room or building. Grounding is the attachment of bonded systems to the earth. Bonding and grounding are both necessary to safeguard people and property from electric hazards."
SO, while it technically may be correct to say bonding as you are doing the "bonding" of all wires and metal boxes, they will connect to a ground, and that is the ultimate purpose of that wire.