I hate to spoil the fun, but Geetsly already did a video detailing the Siege of Saleucami. It's called: The Jedi Meatgrinder - The Most GRUELING Siege of the Clone Wars Explained. It's one of my favorite videos of his.
Too late, they realized that the outer rim seiges were a diversion. Too late they realized that the attack on Curosuant was a diversion. Too late, they realized that kidnapping the chancelor was a diversion. Too late they realized that killing Duoku was a setup. Palps was playing 3d chess while everyone else played checkers.
I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more. Early on Palps would deliberately create vulnerabilities and then leak that info through Dooku to the CIS. Using news of such attacks as a means to consolidate more power under his control. Later in the campaign once he had control and was ready to make his move he left the CIS out to dry, the final blow sending Vader out to clip the loose threads.
@@thalmoragent9344 Palps needed a face for the confederacy. He also needed someone who he could control. But for his true apprentice, he needed someone young. He needed someone he could take over completely. His goal was force essence transfer. The Count was like 20 years older than he was. He would never be a suitable replacement. That is why Palps told Anakin to kill him. He had served his purpose by that point. And it was an important stepping stone for the budding Vader to overcome.
Honestly we need a documentary type of live action show about the clone wars. Sort of as if it’s a trooper who’s recording every moment all the way to order 66. And then there’s be sort of mini scripted scenes like the clone wars but live action then it cut back to the trooper again showing a Mini event then back to the mini sort of episode. That be really cool.
Yes! While I would have liked a video detailing an actual Battle from the Outer Rim Sieges, this was also very awesome. I've been hoping for a video detailing the entire Outer Rim Sieges and how the Republic overcame its greatest weakness during the Clone Wars for almost two years now. I know it's been almost two years that I've been hoping for this video, because I went back and checked the comment where I previously mention it on Geetsly's Why Retreating From Battle Was so Much Worse for the Republic than the Separatists video, which was published on April 9th, 2020. By the Force, I am a weird and massive nerd because I did all that. lol.
One thing that I like about watching the clone wars series in chronological order is that you can see how at the beginning the Republic mainly focuses on defense and counter attacks, really just reacting to the Separatists and only really being offensive with small strike attacks until they are able to bring their full industrial power down on the Separatists later on in the series and the war.
Right, yeah, but consider this: it would've been a great move against the New Republic by the First Order. Imagine, the Rebels having their own strategies used against them. Cause the New Republic had a capital, and even though it was as decentralized as possible (except in army, I guess? They can't even keep _that_ consistent lmao) they still had a territory to protect, while the FO were based on the Unknown Regions, so the New Republic Navy would've had a really hard time hitting them back. Honestly, I would've much preferred seeing an all out war between the New Republic and First Order, Legends style. But hey, what am I gonna do lmao
@@neofulcrum5013 I was just thinking about that video hahaha. Do I agree with _everything_ they said? Not really, but it's way cooler than just "Rebels vs Empire 2.0"
Honestly the battle of corasant was a desperate last move of the cis, and from a stratigic veiw could have been an even more colosal defeat. The CIS used most all of their last strategic reserves in this and they lost a lot that they would never be able to recover from. And it could have been even worse they were cut off from their supply routes, almost had their retreate route cut off, and as more republic renforcments showed up they were on the verge of being encircled. It was this battle I think that sealed the fate of the war.
I’m always going to find it funny how while it was the Republic that struck first at the First Battle of Geonosis, that for most of the war it was pretty much on the defense. The CIS in almost an instant took over hyperspace lanes to cut off Republic forces, had plenty of worlds join it, and was even conquering some territory via force. If it wasn’t for a combination of Palpatine having CIS forces hold back and the Republic using small unit tactics that the Rebels went on to adopt, the war certainly would have been over quite soon. Besides the fact that your soldiers are completely obiedient, having an automated army also means it’s easy to replace troops so long as you have the money and the corporations had the money. Even if the Republic had more industry, it really was at threat of destruction. If Dooku went rogue, the galaxy would be run by the CIS in some sense with republic worlds having Separatist puppet governments. Meanwhile the corporations would have the largest militaries remaining, no question. For all the Republic’s flaws, it was finally seeing that the corporations had to be reigned in after Naboo. Unfortunately the Separatist Crisis occurred and redirected their attention. Life in a post-Separatist Clone Wars wouldn’t be like under the Empire, but it would be far from better. The corporation leaders would have the powers of warlords and what few good laws the Republic had passed would be thrown out thanks to the decentralized nature of the CIS. Some worlds would carry them out, others wouldn’t. With the exception of the corporations, it would be just like the state of the galaxy after the Rise of Skywalker. Ripe for chaos with little unifying planets. Basically it would be the exact opposite of the Empire.
Not really the only way to fairly look at which side would win would be to remove Palpatine influence completely and let's be honest at least half of the corporations that helped the Separatists wouldn't have actually helped them and those that did would have pulled out if the war dragged on more than 2 years. The Republic would still have had a Clone army due to Sifo Dias being the one who originally ordered it. But once the war started a civilian recruitment would have begun to help build the numbers of the military the CIS would have done the same as they wouldn't have the near unlimited Droids that they had in the original events. The war would have gone on probably for a decade with the Republic likely taking down the bulk of the CIS military in the first 3 or 4 years then a guerilla war would have began this likely ending 2 ways one complete republic victory as CIS worlds lose overall support due to Republic law changes that help alleviate the issues the CIS movement had or two war exhaustion hits both sides leading to a treaty that leave a small number of CIS worlds independent but their industry and infrastructure likely destroyed from conflict leading to these independent worlds having near 3rd world conditions
@@mouse3872 I like to point out that Sifo-Dyas made order because he foresaw the rise of the Galactic Empire which is done by Palpatine. Without Palpatine, the vision doesn't happen. And I'm doubtful whether there would have been such a unified separatist movement without the Sith and the backing of the corporations. Perhaps planets would leave individually, but I'm doubtful there would have been a conflict as large and terrible as the Clone Wars.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 that's very true a war that large scale probably wouldn't have happened the closest that would happen would be closer to what the rebellion was like . Most guerrilla Warfare with a few pitched battle large campaigns in just a few isolated systems
Actually, in the long run, the CIS was destined to lose. The Republic's economic and industrial capabilities vastly outstripped the Separatists, who relied mainly on the private corporations like the Trade Federation and Techno Union to supply them. These corporations did not have unlimited resources. While they could replace droid troops quicker than the Republic could replace clone troops, they could not replace other military aspects. Most notably, starships. The Republic fleet was far larger and could produce ships far quicker. That is far more vital in a galactic scale war than ground troops. The Separatist fleet was a hodgepodge of various corporations ships and could not match the Republic in size and firepower. Once the sieges in the Outer Rim began and the Republic started systematically destroying the Separatists industrial base and shipyards, it was pretty much over for the Separatists. The Outer Rim sieges were pretty much the Sherman's march to the sea in Star Wars, destroying the enemies industrial capability. That mattered far more than any of the small-scale operations carried out by Republic forces. Macro-strategy and logistics win wars.
If only a character who happened to have the mindset similar to Timur is the one leading the Separatists, the offensive campaigns against the Republic would be a lot worse than the one inflicted by Grievous. Why? Because while Battle Droids have no interests in money, the megacorporations that supllied them to the Separatists' cause do and they are more than happy to receive the loots that this military leader plundered from the Republic. Grievous, on the other hand, never bother to give the Separatist Council some loots to satisfy them, judging by Wat Tambor's direct involvement in Ryloth said a lot. So if they received loots, then they may double the production of the Battle Droids. And the rest is simply attack the right places and the right times while making the right decisions.
Unfortunately, the game was already set. Palpatine had it all planned out so that the Republic would ultimately win. I say unfortunately because the war would have ended sooner if the peace negotiations were successful.
Problem is there would be an intense Cold War if the peace negotiations were successful. Speaking of which, did the Zillo Beast Incident happen before the peace talks or after them? If before, then there would be a chance for peace given how Palpatine actually could have been killed by the beast. If after, then there was no shot. Anyways, peace talks don’t necessarily mean peace. As anybody would say, there of course would be tension between the two galactic powers. However as we’ve seen, both factions also have the ability to create super weapons. The Separatists can make bioweapons and anti-organic weapons quite quickly align with super warships like the Malevolence. Meanwhile the Republic made anti-droid weapons and began construction on the Death Star. Likely Geonosis would be handed back over to the CIS per the treaty. The question would be if Poggle would be handed back. While the Republic can possibly blame him for the brain worm incident, Poggle technically hasn’t committed any war crimes. If blame for the worms was placed on the queen, then Poggle would be let go. Then comes the race over who completes the Death Star first. While the Republic has the industrial might and was able to complete the Death Star after Poggle’s death on Mustafar, they still needed him to complete the first stage along with his population of workers. In fact the Geonosians were needed to build most of the Death Star, later being replaced by Wookies and other slaves after the Geonosians were wiped out for secrecy. While the Republic has the industrial advantage and has many scientific minds, I would imagine the CIS would have the true advantage with the original creators. Also the Republic would be at a disadvantage. The CIS probably already had plans to have the Geonosians do the work, so all they would need is a blockade. Given the decentralized nature of the CIS that ironically favors the corporations, few with the power would question this or be able to stop it, especially if Poggle is on board and using brain worms to motivate his people. Meanwhile the Republic would be facing demilitarization, though in a limited sense. However Krennic’s project is definitely getting canceled. He would need a lot of powerful people to continue the project without government funding. They would also need a planet to build the Death Star. While Geonosis is the industrial world of the CIS, the Republic has Kuat, Fondor, and Mon Cala. Kuat is in the Core Worlds, so there is no way they can hide it from the Senate. I highly doubt the Mon Calamari and the Quarren are going to be okay with creating a weapon to destroy planets and I bet they will be able to see through any lies Krennic makes since they are among the best in designing warships. Fondor is in the Colonies and full of humans, so it might work for Krennic. If necessary, Rothana, a Kuat subsidiary, would do better as it already secretly made the Republic fleet. However there comes the problem of a work force. No way they are going to get enough slaves in secret to build the superweapon. Hiring construction companies comes with risks as they may have ties to CIS corporations and Republic senators. Basically, there is just no way the Republic can build the Death Star and no way Krennic can do so in a non-Palpatine galaxy. Even if the Senate wanted to make super weapons, they would be bound to see the Death Star as extreme and too expensive. Meanwhile with the Separatists, the corporations can easily work separate from the government on Geonosis with this project. It may take them longer, but they would make the Death Star. They may launch a coup against the Separatist Parliament to gain full control and then turn the Death Star on the Republic. And without a weakness designed in it, the Death Star would be near-invincible. So in my opinion in the short term, a peace treaty which would require a dead Palpatine and maybe a dead Dooku would benefit the galaxy, but thanks to tensions between factions and the decentralized nature of the CIS along with the power of the corporations combined on the Separatist Council, the CIS would have a Death Star and be using it to possibly spread their influence.
I agree with Novazues please do all of them would love to watch those videos about those battles always love when you go into play by play with battles in Star Wars
If anyone going to make a "What If" video of what if Palpatine decides to keep the clones to continue serving the Empire? I would love to watch it or read it.
The Senate to the mirror his one and only friend after founding The First Galatic Empire. "(Cackle) Those fools on the holonet... It wasn't a mistake that those Home Guard units were ordered to the front... It was a feature."
but what about the CSI offensive into the mid and core during the first year of the war, shown when Anakin stopped grievous but also lost R2??? wasn't that also brutal and almost brought the republic to its knees.
I took the Republic started gaining the upper hand with the recovery of the Nexus hyperspace coordinates (allowing raiders to strike deep into Separatist space) and it was made inevitable when Scipio and the banks were nationalized, thus denying their loans to the CIS.
“ Primitives fighting each other for control of planet is always one interesting spectacle to remember, but remember that wars tend to become “total” in nature, One focused on the complete destruction of the entire industrial might of the opposing force, through domination of the Navy and strategic destruction can devastate entire nations, or even an entire planet, like the industrialized planet of Mygeeto. “Although, I can say that being an open conflict with one people to another can bring benefits to controllers of the factions based in the conflict, but can also make everyone else, including those on the ground fighting it not only the perpetrators of terrible crimes, the victims of those crimes, and the bystanders. I also mean the many civilian non-combatants who lost their lives during any given conflict. When you are fighting an entire war across the galaxy for the industry. Quite honestly, it was necessary if we were to have gas for our weapons, but many times we were undersupplied. When it comes to the vastness of space, every planet that was fought over was brutal and often didn’t take long for the small scale engagements to end in: being overrun by superior maneuvering and wiped out immediately; Or they would simply mount some kind of organized retreat to a nearby stronger position to avoid loss of equipment; Or the attack shatters the attackers or defenders and sends them out of the area looking for supplies and reinforcements; and the other force tries to chase after them until they can be surrounded and destroyed. Sometimes we did that with the hyperspace lanes and planets, too. You just really didn’t want one of those small engagement to turn into some of the large engagements that we saw in the outer rim.” -CS/CT-8711-12 “Cheng”, former Captain and Scout of the 442nd Siege Battalion
The CIS needed to strike at the Mid rim, Inner colonies and Core faster and harder in order to win. Pushing that early edge even further may have gotten them that victory. Though it could be countered if the republic worlds started raising their own military forces to counter them. Bolstering the GMR even more.
That still might not have gotten them victory. Republic space is still much larger than the territory controlled by the Separatists and thus a campaign like that would soon start to wear down as resistance increases. And the longer that campaign drags on, the worse it is for the Separatists because as this video pointed out, they cannot compete in terms of industry and economics with the Republic.
It’s interesting how the Clone Wars resembles the American Civil War-you’ve got the early phase going mostly for the Confederacy, winning dramatic success at the central theater of war (the Core Worlds/Lee’s Virginian and Bragg’s Kentucky campaigns in late summer 1862). Then, the situation stabilizes in slight favor of the Republic (reorganization of military commands into galactic theaters/Grant takes Vicksburg and smashes the Confederates at Chattanooga) and the Republic’s industrial and manpower strengths were finally being utilized (better and more centralized management by the Republic/Grant’s appointment to high command in early 1864). Even so, the public sees the war as failing despite the apparent stagnation really being the work of attrition that cost the already out-manned Confederacy precious manpower (the bloody Outer Rim sieges/Grant’s Overland Campaign). Then, after a last dramatic gasp fails (the raid on Courscant/Early’s raid on Washington) the Confederacy collapses and the war ends somewhat anticlimactically (the last of the Separatists’ forces are destroyed at Courscant and Kashyykk/Hood wastes his army in futile offensives at Atlanta and then in Tennessee during late 1864; Lee’s army is bled white by attrition and he surrenders on April 9, 1865).
I'm planning to use Star Wars Armada, X-Wing Miniatures, and Legion to run an AU without the Jedi and Sith but where the Separatists leave anyway and the Republic still gets it clone troopers. While I think the Republic/Empire would still win, I think it would last at least another three years.
Good video. But we shouldn't forget the increasing advancement of the CIS Strategic droids, nor the fact that the Republic was essentially bankrupt economically.
Except that it wasn't bankrupt. Geetsly pointed that out. That's why the Republic was winning in the end, its economic power outstripped the Separatists. Also, it doesn't matter how advanced your strategy droids are if your military resources are dwindling.
But no this wasn’t the case not entirely. In Rebels Kalani states that the CIS far outnumbered the clones and republic. The republic was weeks away from completely losing
What? The CIS got completely farmed in the last days of the clone wars. There is a clone who said if they had their late war weapons at the start of the war they could have crushed the CIS in weeks.
Mate, you really need to listen to what you're saying. Pursuing a Stateless strategy despite having territory to protect? May I suggest a different cause for the clear shift in Republic fortunes - dead Jedi. Not only had large numbers of utterly inexperienced, untrained Jedi 'Generals' been killed off by this point, we also know that others were withdrawing from the Order, refusing to take part in the Wars and so on, even further reducing the numbers of Jedi on the Front. Given that - with painfully rare exceptions - the limits of their martial skills appeared to be 'Wave light-sabre, lead Banzai charge', limiting their ability to get Republic troopers killed could only be a good thing. I have also seen excellent arguments for wartime (womb-born) volunteers gaining experience and skills, and thus contributing ever more to the overall efforts. However, this would be a phenomenon common to both sides of the conflict, so might actually equalise out. Annoyingly, the Republican propaganda that is the Clone Wars series simply refuses to show much of these efforts.
Frigates vr's destroyers what did you expect? The acclamators got upgraded from landing craft and transporter to dedicated shooty ship. So a min battleship, or a destoyer. Perhaps a cruiser.. THe Venator had enough missiles too, so it could be considered a carrier destroyer.. Once the Venators became the new carry everything even the ground vehicles, the acclimators were now abole to be turned into vehicles that could do damage. Before, they had a hard time against the cis ships, now the same ships could to serious damage on their own. They say things changed when the venators came in, but they let the acclimators get upgraded too. THey allready had missiles and enough to be classified as destroyers, now they could be classified as mini battleships or battle cruisers while also being better destroyers, that now had better sheilding and more firepower. Now that they had real carriers, they could better protect the acclamators, so now, you could have two shooty shoots and a carrier and shoot missiles like a destroyer and pummel the shields until they went down and blow up the frigates. Basically, it was lucer hulks and frigate vrs careir destroyer battle cruisers and destroyer carriers. A frigate is meant to add ships to get shot at and add a bit of power, but a destroyer is meant to add some serious fire power and can hit ships of higher classes, even armor classes. When you have slow carriers and frigates vers mobile carrier destroyers and battle cruiser destroyers, then you have a disadvantage, since the enemy can probably get frigates if they need them. By the way. Frigates and destroyers are close to eachother in durability usually, it's basically that you glass cannon a frigate, and now adays you put missiles on a ship. So transport barely carrier destroyers replaced by full carrier and transport destroyers, so that the tgood ransport bad carrier destroyers coudl get upgraded into no transport no carrier upgraded armor and sheild and fire power batlcreuiser destroyers. Maybe cruieser, but the thing with the acclamator armor was that it was really good and basically dispersed the damage over the whole hull.
Let’s analyze the trap part of the Clone Wars and see what would happen if the Jedi and the Republic tried the peaceful option. So lets say at the start of it all, the Senate did not pass the Military Creation Act, did not send the Jedi Order to Geonosis, and did not use the GAR and instead tried to use diplomacy to get back the Jedi and Padme. Those three get killed and likely serve as examples of Separatist Justice. While some Separatists would be disgusted at the whole thing, others would reason they were spies and deserved their fate. The Republic would probably declare war in outrage except this time three of the most moral and influential figures in the Senate and the GAR are dead. No Luke and Leia. Ahsoka may not become who she is. Now what would happen if the peace talks were successful? Both the Empire and the Separatists have shown they can make super weapons, so a cold war would begin and likely end when one side has a Death Star. I would think the CIS would complete the Death Star first, though this is only if Krennic’s project is cut out of a view that it is no longer necessary and too expensive, which is likely since if the Republic was close to going bankrupt before nationalizing the Banking Clan, there is no way they could afford the Death Star without nationalizing the banks. So the Separatist Council in secret on Geonosis make a Death Star and use it for their means. Likely there is no secret exhaust, so even if the Death Star plans were leaked, I doubt the Republic would be able to stop it. The Separatists then take over the galaxy lead by the corrupt corporations. Instead of an Imperial era, the era of money reigns supreme. What about not taking over the Banking Clan? Well, since the Banking Clan was always favoring the CIS to the Republic, the Republic would eventually suffer the economic depression the Separatists likely did after the Battle of Scipio. And if the Separatists did keep the entire Banking Clan, the corporations would get even richer. Heck, corporations across the galaxy would likely switch sides and swear loyalty since the Separatists would have most of the money. Sure there were banks like the Bank of the Core, but nothing it seems could compare to the reach and influence of the Banking Clan. Eventually Dooku may realize he can finally overthrow his master. After all he could easily get Republic worlds to join the CIS in exchange for economic salvation. So either way the Republic eventually surrenders one exchange for an end to their economic depression. Dooku likely outs Palpatine who would already be unpopular for losing the banks. As a Sith Lord he probably would order for the construction of the Death Star which would go as fast as the Empire’s construction since he would have nationalized the banks and have the corporations in the Separatist Council along with Poggle and Geonosis. This sounds good, though since throughout the Clone Wars Dooku took power and became a dictator in the CIS, things eventually wouldn’t go well. The Core Worlds would be treated like the Outer Rim did during the reign of the Empire. Instead of Imperial warlords ruling over the people, rich corporations would be filling this role. The Separatist Parliament eventually gets dissolved if Dooku accuses them of being Republic sympathizers. Oh, and Padme gets executed before getting pregnant, so no Luke or Leia. All and all, I guess you can agree with the trap notion of the Clone Wars. Besides the obvious things that would go wrong right away, there are also things we as fans know that would also happen. So while people argue the Jedi should never have joined the war effort and the Republic should have tried to end the Clone Wars peacefully, it’s hard to do so even if Palpatine is gone, because as we have seen with the end of the Galactic Civil War, a galaxy after Palpatine is one where his agents continue his work after him. Now all of this does show that the best way for all of this to be avoided was if the Republic never became corrupt and complacent in the first place or at least never vote Palpatine into power and properly fighting back against the corporations before Palpatine can use them again. Still when the Clone Wars began, I would say the Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order conducted themselves in the best way they could under the circumstances.
Star Wars scale is pathetic and stupid and should really be changed in a canon overhaul.. thousands of Systems with Billions of inhabitants on many worlds come easily into trillions and quadrillions of people, soldiers and clankers and all that was stopped by according to lore 1.2million clones. Are you kidding? 1% of the Imperial Guard (nom-spacemarine) could then takeover the whole Star Wars galaxy in a whim.
According to lore the GAR hat 4 system armies with ca. 300k clones each. That is nothing. Countries on our world would easily be able to win just atrition, not to speal of our world combined.. we would kick their ass even with Jedi.
In truth the Clone Wars would won by the Confederacy’s if not by Darth Sidious meddling. The Confederacy had the largest army in galactic history, and enough resources to overrun the Galactic Republic, but Sidious had to let the Republic because it will be more easier to control for the Sith Lord.
Without Palpatine, the Separatists as we know them would not exist. There likely still have been a war, but the Jedi and the Republic would have had the advantage because the corporations never would have united without Palpatine.
funny how the armies of millions never seem to include freighters with supplies (asside from some token ones i guess) but seriously; even now during the Ukraine war Russian soldiers seem to have trouble even feeding their soldiers, certainly providing them with fuel and their wages are worh a fraction of what they were before the war because of inflation, main point being that it is sad that logistics still do not play a big role in such franchises
If you where to do a mini documentaries series on all these battles I’d gladly watch them all and i know I ain’t alone.
You are not I would watch that too. :)
Me too
I would definitely watch it too ^^
Same
Signed.
We've heard all about Felucia and Mygeeto, now's the time for Siege of Saleucami. I would love to see material of this campaign!
Great idea!
I hate to spoil the fun, but Geetsly already did a video detailing the Siege of Saleucami. It's called:
The Jedi Meatgrinder - The Most GRUELING Siege of the Clone Wars Explained.
It's one of my favorite videos of his.
Too late, they realized that the outer rim seiges were a diversion.
Too late they realized that the attack on Curosuant was a diversion.
Too late, they realized that kidnapping the chancelor was a diversion.
Too late they realized that killing Duoku was a setup.
Palps was playing 3d chess while everyone else played checkers.
I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more. Early on Palps would deliberately create vulnerabilities and then leak that info through Dooku to the CIS. Using news of such attacks as a means to consolidate more power under his control. Later in the campaign once he had control and was ready to make his move he left the CIS out to dry, the final blow sending Vader out to clip the loose threads.
Wait, how was Dooku's death a setup?
@@thalmoragent9344 Palps needed a face for the confederacy. He also needed someone who he could control. But for his true apprentice, he needed someone young. He needed someone he could take over completely. His goal was force essence transfer. The Count was like 20 years older than he was. He would never be a suitable replacement. That is why Palps told Anakin to kill him. He had served his purpose by that point. And it was an important stepping stone for the budding Vader to overcome.
How Republic forces dominated the Clone Wars
1. Palpatine was controlling both sides
How Palpatine dominated the Clone Wars
Ok but fr though, the CIS realistically would have wiped the floor with the republic.
I’d like to know a bit about the Battle of Cato Neimoidia and why Plo Koon’s forces were present.
Honestly we need a documentary type of live action show about the clone wars. Sort of as if it’s a trooper who’s recording every moment all the way to order 66. And then there’s be sort of mini scripted scenes like the clone wars but live action then it cut back to the trooper again showing a Mini event then back to the mini sort of episode. That be really cool.
Yes! While I would have liked a video detailing an actual Battle from the Outer Rim Sieges, this was also very awesome.
I've been hoping for a video detailing the entire Outer Rim Sieges and how the Republic overcame its greatest weakness during the Clone Wars for almost two years now.
I know it's been almost two years that I've been hoping for this video, because I went back and checked the comment where I previously mention it on Geetsly's Why Retreating From Battle Was so Much Worse for the Republic than the Separatists video, which was published on April 9th, 2020. By the Force, I am a weird and massive nerd because I did all that. lol.
One thing that I like about watching the clone wars series in chronological order is that you can see how at the beginning the Republic mainly focuses on defense and counter attacks, really just reacting to the Separatists and only really being offensive with small strike attacks until they are able to bring their full industrial power down on the Separatists later on in the series and the war.
The stateless strategy would be a good move against the first order by the new republic if they had any remnants of their military not at Hosnia.
Right, yeah, but consider this: it would've been a great move against the New Republic by the First Order.
Imagine, the Rebels having their own strategies used against them. Cause the New Republic had a capital, and even though it was as decentralized as possible (except in army, I guess? They can't even keep _that_ consistent lmao) they still had a territory to protect, while the FO were based on the Unknown Regions, so the New Republic Navy would've had a really hard time hitting them back.
Honestly, I would've much preferred seeing an all out war between the New Republic and First Order, Legends style. But hey, what am I gonna do lmao
@@ixkahn I would’ve too. Thankfully with the templin institute I can visualize.
@@neofulcrum5013 I was just thinking about that video hahaha. Do I agree with _everything_ they said? Not really, but it's way cooler than just "Rebels vs Empire 2.0"
Honestly the battle of corasant was a desperate last move of the cis, and from a stratigic veiw could have been an even more colosal defeat. The CIS used most all of their last strategic reserves in this and they lost a lot that they would never be able to recover from. And it could have been even worse they were cut off from their supply routes, almost had their retreate route cut off, and as more republic renforcments showed up they were on the verge of being encircled. It was this battle I think that sealed the fate of the war.
Every time i finish one of Geetsly’s videos at work:
I want more… and i know i shouldnt…
+1
Haha. Thank you!!!
5:18 & 6:05 Venture Pictures
What a talented lad.
I’m always going to find it funny how while it was the Republic that struck first at the First Battle of Geonosis, that for most of the war it was pretty much on the defense. The CIS in almost an instant took over hyperspace lanes to cut off Republic forces, had plenty of worlds join it, and was even conquering some territory via force. If it wasn’t for a combination of Palpatine having CIS forces hold back and the Republic using small unit tactics that the Rebels went on to adopt, the war certainly would have been over quite soon. Besides the fact that your soldiers are completely obiedient, having an automated army also means it’s easy to replace troops so long as you have the money and the corporations had the money. Even if the Republic had more industry, it really was at threat of destruction. If Dooku went rogue, the galaxy would be run by the CIS in some sense with republic worlds having Separatist puppet governments. Meanwhile the corporations would have the largest militaries remaining, no question. For all the Republic’s flaws, it was finally seeing that the corporations had to be reigned in after Naboo. Unfortunately the Separatist Crisis occurred and redirected their attention. Life in a post-Separatist Clone Wars wouldn’t be like under the Empire, but it would be far from better. The corporation leaders would have the powers of warlords and what few good laws the Republic had passed would be thrown out thanks to the decentralized nature of the CIS. Some worlds would carry them out, others wouldn’t. With the exception of the corporations, it would be just like the state of the galaxy after the Rise of Skywalker. Ripe for chaos with little unifying planets. Basically it would be the exact opposite of the Empire.
Not really the only way to fairly look at which side would win would be to remove Palpatine influence completely and let's be honest at least half of the corporations that helped the Separatists wouldn't have actually helped them and those that did would have pulled out if the war dragged on more than 2 years. The Republic would still have had a Clone army due to Sifo Dias being the one who originally ordered it. But once the war started a civilian recruitment would have begun to help build the numbers of the military the CIS would have done the same as they wouldn't have the near unlimited Droids that they had in the original events. The war would have gone on probably for a decade with the Republic likely taking down the bulk of the CIS military in the first 3 or 4 years then a guerilla war would have began this likely ending 2 ways one complete republic victory as CIS worlds lose overall support due to Republic law changes that help alleviate the issues the CIS movement had or two war exhaustion hits both sides leading to a treaty that leave a small number of CIS worlds independent but their industry and infrastructure likely destroyed from conflict leading to these independent worlds having near 3rd world conditions
@@mouse3872 I like to point out that Sifo-Dyas made order because he foresaw the rise of the Galactic Empire which is done by Palpatine. Without Palpatine, the vision doesn't happen. And I'm doubtful whether there would have been such a unified separatist movement without the Sith and the backing of the corporations. Perhaps planets would leave individually, but I'm doubtful there would have been a conflict as large and terrible as the Clone Wars.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 that's very true a war that large scale probably wouldn't have happened the closest that would happen would be closer to what the rebellion was like . Most guerrilla Warfare with a few pitched battle large campaigns in just a few isolated systems
In canon the CIS wasn't held back by Palpatine, only in legends
Actually, in the long run, the CIS was destined to lose. The Republic's economic and industrial capabilities vastly outstripped the Separatists, who relied mainly on the private corporations like the Trade Federation and Techno Union to supply them. These corporations did not have unlimited resources. While they could replace droid troops quicker than the Republic could replace clone troops, they could not replace other military aspects. Most notably, starships. The Republic fleet was far larger and could produce ships far quicker. That is far more vital in a galactic scale war than ground troops. The Separatist fleet was a hodgepodge of various corporations ships and could not match the Republic in size and firepower. Once the sieges in the Outer Rim began and the Republic started systematically destroying the Separatists industrial base and shipyards, it was pretty much over for the Separatists. The Outer Rim sieges were pretty much the Sherman's march to the sea in Star Wars, destroying the enemies industrial capability. That mattered far more than any of the small-scale operations carried out by Republic forces. Macro-strategy and logistics win wars.
If only a character who happened to have the mindset similar to Timur is the one leading the Separatists, the offensive campaigns against the Republic would be a lot worse than the one inflicted by Grievous. Why? Because while Battle Droids have no interests in money, the megacorporations that supllied them to the Separatists' cause do and they are more than happy to receive the loots that this military leader plundered from the Republic. Grievous, on the other hand, never bother to give the Separatist Council some loots to satisfy them, judging by Wat Tambor's direct involvement in Ryloth said a lot. So if they received loots, then they may double the production of the Battle Droids. And the rest is simply attack the right places and the right times while making the right decisions.
Unfortunately, the game was already set. Palpatine had it all planned out so that the Republic would ultimately win. I say unfortunately because the war would have ended sooner if the peace negotiations were successful.
Problem is there would be an intense Cold War if the peace negotiations were successful. Speaking of which, did the Zillo Beast Incident happen before the peace talks or after them? If before, then there would be a chance for peace given how Palpatine actually could have been killed by the beast. If after, then there was no shot. Anyways, peace talks don’t necessarily mean peace. As anybody would say, there of course would be tension between the two galactic powers. However as we’ve seen, both factions also have the ability to create super weapons. The Separatists can make bioweapons and anti-organic weapons quite quickly align with super warships like the Malevolence. Meanwhile the Republic made anti-droid weapons and began construction on the Death Star. Likely Geonosis would be handed back over to the CIS per the treaty. The question would be if Poggle would be handed back. While the Republic can possibly blame him for the brain worm incident, Poggle technically hasn’t committed any war crimes. If blame for the worms was placed on the queen, then Poggle would be let go. Then comes the race over who completes the Death Star first. While the Republic has the industrial might and was able to complete the Death Star after Poggle’s death on Mustafar, they still needed him to complete the first stage along with his population of workers. In fact the Geonosians were needed to build most of the Death Star, later being replaced by Wookies and other slaves after the Geonosians were wiped out for secrecy. While the Republic has the industrial advantage and has many scientific minds, I would imagine the CIS would have the true advantage with the original creators. Also the Republic would be at a disadvantage. The CIS probably already had plans to have the Geonosians do the work, so all they would need is a blockade. Given the decentralized nature of the CIS that ironically favors the corporations, few with the power would question this or be able to stop it, especially if Poggle is on board and using brain worms to motivate his people. Meanwhile the Republic would be facing demilitarization, though in a limited sense. However Krennic’s project is definitely getting canceled. He would need a lot of powerful people to continue the project without government funding. They would also need a planet to build the Death Star. While Geonosis is the industrial world of the CIS, the Republic has Kuat, Fondor, and Mon Cala. Kuat is in the Core Worlds, so there is no way they can hide it from the Senate. I highly doubt the Mon Calamari and the Quarren are going to be okay with creating a weapon to destroy planets and I bet they will be able to see through any lies Krennic makes since they are among the best in designing warships. Fondor is in the Colonies and full of humans, so it might work for Krennic. If necessary, Rothana, a Kuat subsidiary, would do better as it already secretly made the Republic fleet. However there comes the problem of a work force. No way they are going to get enough slaves in secret to build the superweapon. Hiring construction companies comes with risks as they may have ties to CIS corporations and Republic senators. Basically, there is just no way the Republic can build the Death Star and no way Krennic can do so in a non-Palpatine galaxy. Even if the Senate wanted to make super weapons, they would be bound to see the Death Star as extreme and too expensive. Meanwhile with the Separatists, the corporations can easily work separate from the government on Geonosis with this project. It may take them longer, but they would make the Death Star. They may launch a coup against the Separatist Parliament to gain full control and then turn the Death Star on the Republic. And without a weakness designed in it, the Death Star would be near-invincible. So in my opinion in the short term, a peace treaty which would require a dead Palpatine and maybe a dead Dooku would benefit the galaxy, but thanks to tensions between factions and the decentralized nature of the CIS along with the power of the corporations combined on the Separatist Council, the CIS would have a Death Star and be using it to possibly spread their influence.
I agree with Novazues please do all of them would love to watch those videos about those battles always love when you go into play by play with battles in Star Wars
I wonder why the General Grievous, being the cuning strategist he was, continue to obey Sidious after the dead of count Dooku.
If anyone going to make a "What If" video of what if Palpatine decides to keep the clones to continue serving the Empire? I would love to watch it or read it.
Plot armor. The same reason why they suddenly started sucking after the Clone War.
The Senate to the mirror his one and only friend after founding The First Galatic Empire. "(Cackle) Those fools on the holonet...
It wasn't a mistake that those Home Guard units were ordered to the front... It was a feature."
We need to see more of the outer rim planets and it's war
This reminds me of the Overland Campaign.
The Clone Wars are basically World War 2 and the Civil War mixed together.
but what about the CSI offensive into the mid and core during the first year of the war, shown when Anakin stopped grievous but also lost R2??? wasn't that also brutal and almost brought the republic to its knees.
I took the Republic started gaining the upper hand with the recovery of the Nexus hyperspace coordinates (allowing raiders to strike deep into Separatist space) and it was made inevitable when Scipio and the banks were nationalized, thus denying their loans to the CIS.
“ Primitives fighting each other for control of planet is always one interesting spectacle to remember, but remember that wars tend to become “total” in nature, One focused on the complete destruction of the entire industrial might of the opposing force, through domination of the Navy and strategic destruction can devastate entire nations, or even an entire planet, like the industrialized planet of Mygeeto.
“Although, I can say that being an open conflict with one people to another can bring benefits to controllers of the factions based in the conflict, but can also make everyone else, including those on the ground fighting it not only the perpetrators of terrible crimes, the victims of those crimes, and the bystanders. I also mean the many civilian non-combatants who lost their lives during any given conflict. When you are fighting an entire war across the galaxy for the industry. Quite honestly, it was necessary if we were to have gas for our weapons, but many times we were undersupplied.
When it comes to the vastness of space, every planet that was fought over was brutal and often didn’t take long for the small scale engagements to end in: being overrun by superior maneuvering and wiped out immediately;
Or they would simply mount some kind of organized retreat to a nearby stronger position to avoid loss of equipment;
Or the attack shatters the attackers or defenders and sends them out of the area looking for supplies and reinforcements; and the other force tries to chase after them until they can be surrounded and destroyed. Sometimes we did that with the hyperspace lanes and planets, too. You just really didn’t want one of those small engagement to turn into some of the large engagements that we saw in the outer rim.” -CS/CT-8711-12 “Cheng”, former Captain and Scout of the 442nd Siege Battalion
For the Republic!
"Quantity has a quality of its own"
-Some unknown Senator
The CIS needed to strike at the Mid rim, Inner colonies and Core faster and harder in order to win.
Pushing that early edge even further may have gotten them that victory. Though it could be countered if the republic worlds started raising their own military forces to counter them. Bolstering the GMR even more.
That still might not have gotten them victory. Republic space is still much larger than the territory controlled by the Separatists and thus a campaign like that would soon start to wear down as resistance increases. And the longer that campaign drags on, the worse it is for the Separatists because as this video pointed out, they cannot compete in terms of industry and economics with the Republic.
short version
republic admiral: jedi shut up , clone commander withdraw your forces , now orbital bombardment.
It’s interesting how the Clone Wars resembles the American Civil War-you’ve got the early phase going mostly for the Confederacy, winning dramatic success at the central theater of war (the Core Worlds/Lee’s Virginian and Bragg’s Kentucky campaigns in late summer 1862). Then, the situation stabilizes in slight favor of the Republic (reorganization of military commands into galactic theaters/Grant takes Vicksburg and smashes the Confederates at Chattanooga) and the Republic’s industrial and manpower strengths were finally being utilized (better and more centralized management by the Republic/Grant’s appointment to high command in early 1864). Even so, the public sees the war as failing despite the apparent stagnation really being the work of attrition that cost the already out-manned Confederacy precious manpower (the bloody Outer Rim sieges/Grant’s Overland Campaign).
Then, after a last dramatic gasp fails (the raid on Courscant/Early’s raid on Washington) the Confederacy collapses and the war ends somewhat anticlimactically (the last of the Separatists’ forces are destroyed at Courscant and Kashyykk/Hood wastes his army in futile offensives at Atlanta and then in Tennessee during late 1864; Lee’s army is bled white by attrition and he surrenders on April 9, 1865).
I'm planning to use Star Wars Armada, X-Wing Miniatures, and Legion to run an AU without the Jedi and Sith but where the Separatists leave anyway and the Republic still gets it clone troopers. While I think the Republic/Empire would still win, I think it would last at least another three years.
This is my 5th time watchin this video. Who here wishes they made a movie strictly on the outer rim sieges
I wonder if any of the CIS worlds joined the rebel alliance after the clone wars?
How did it happen? Pappa Palpatine said it would.
They started running Yoda wookie gun line lists every battle.
Palpatine running both sides help somewhat also
What if droid army never received shot down order. How long do you thing the war will continue?
I do wanna know more about the secret fleets that arrived at the end of the war but there’s not much about them.
I think I’ll live action clone wars show starring anakin and Obi-Wan in the outer rim sieges would be great
When the clone have the high ground it cause the jedi to have the low ground
Good video. But we shouldn't forget the increasing advancement of the CIS Strategic droids, nor the fact that the Republic was essentially bankrupt economically.
Except that it wasn't bankrupt. Geetsly pointed that out. That's why the Republic was winning in the end, its economic power outstripped the Separatists. Also, it doesn't matter how advanced your strategy droids are if your military resources are dwindling.
Palpatine really planned things out.
Better to be spaced than based on beldoone
This is Canon for me!
Seps rely too much on droids. Droids aren't that reliable?
But no this wasn’t the case not entirely. In Rebels Kalani states that the CIS far outnumbered the clones and republic. The republic was weeks away from completely losing
What? The CIS got completely farmed in the last days of the clone wars. There is a clone who said if they had their late war weapons at the start of the war they could have crushed the CIS in weeks.
Mate, you really need to listen to what you're saying. Pursuing a Stateless strategy despite having territory to protect?
May I suggest a different cause for the clear shift in Republic fortunes - dead Jedi. Not only had large numbers of utterly inexperienced, untrained Jedi 'Generals' been killed off by this point, we also know that others were withdrawing from the Order, refusing to take part in the Wars and so on, even further reducing the numbers of Jedi on the Front. Given that - with painfully rare exceptions - the limits of their martial skills appeared to be 'Wave light-sabre, lead Banzai charge', limiting their ability to get Republic troopers killed could only be a good thing.
I have also seen excellent arguments for wartime (womb-born) volunteers gaining experience and skills, and thus contributing ever more to the overall efforts. However, this would be a phenomenon common to both sides of the conflict, so might actually equalise out. Annoyingly, the Republican propaganda that is the Clone Wars series simply refuses to show much of these efforts.
Where does the battle of annexes fit in this, or is this legends only
It happened bc darth sidious the puppet master allowed it but that just takes the fun out of the Star Wars universe so we don’t talk about that.
Palpatine played both sides from the start
palpatine
The outcome was anyone's guess except for you know who😉.....
Why am I hearing the Quake III: Arena announcer while seeing "DOMINATING"?
Edit: My bad, it's the Unreal Tournament announcer.
Frigates vr's destroyers what did you expect?
The acclamators got upgraded from landing craft and transporter to dedicated shooty ship. So a min battleship, or a destoyer. Perhaps a cruiser..
THe Venator had enough missiles too, so it could be considered a carrier destroyer..
Once the Venators became the new carry everything even the ground vehicles, the acclimators were now abole to be turned into vehicles that could do damage. Before, they had a hard time against the cis ships, now the same ships could to serious damage on their own.
They say things changed when the venators came in, but they let the acclimators get upgraded too. THey allready had missiles and enough to be classified as destroyers, now they could be classified as mini battleships or battle cruisers while also being better destroyers, that now had better sheilding and more firepower.
Now that they had real carriers, they could better protect the acclamators, so now, you could have two shooty shoots and a carrier and shoot missiles like a destroyer and pummel the shields until they went down and blow up the frigates.
Basically, it was lucer hulks and frigate vrs careir destroyer battle cruisers and destroyer carriers.
A frigate is meant to add ships to get shot at and add a bit of power, but a destroyer is meant to add some serious fire power and can hit ships of higher classes, even armor classes. When you have slow carriers and frigates vers mobile carrier destroyers and battle cruiser destroyers, then you have a disadvantage, since the enemy can probably get frigates if they need them.
By the way. Frigates and destroyers are close to eachother in durability usually, it's basically that you glass cannon a frigate, and now adays you put missiles on a ship. So transport barely carrier destroyers replaced by full carrier and transport destroyers, so that the tgood ransport bad carrier destroyers coudl get upgraded into no transport no carrier upgraded armor and sheild and fire power batlcreuiser destroyers. Maybe cruieser, but the thing with the acclamator armor was that it was really good and basically dispersed the damage over the whole hull.
The answer here is, more or less, that it was rigged. Palpatine wasted CIS troops and held them back by not allowing more advanced troops.
Even with the more advanced troops through the Separatists did not have the resources to win a prolonged war.
Let’s analyze the trap part of the Clone Wars and see what would happen if the Jedi and the Republic tried the peaceful option. So lets say at the start of it all, the Senate did not pass the Military Creation Act, did not send the Jedi Order to Geonosis, and did not use the GAR and instead tried to use diplomacy to get back the Jedi and Padme. Those three get killed and likely serve as examples of Separatist Justice. While some Separatists would be disgusted at the whole thing, others would reason they were spies and deserved their fate. The Republic would probably declare war in outrage except this time three of the most moral and influential figures in the Senate and the GAR are dead. No Luke and Leia. Ahsoka may not become who she is. Now what would happen if the peace talks were successful? Both the Empire and the Separatists have shown they can make super weapons, so a cold war would begin and likely end when one side has a Death Star. I would think the CIS would complete the Death Star first, though this is only if Krennic’s project is cut out of a view that it is no longer necessary and too expensive, which is likely since if the Republic was close to going bankrupt before nationalizing the Banking Clan, there is no way they could afford the Death Star without nationalizing the banks. So the Separatist Council in secret on Geonosis make a Death Star and use it for their means. Likely there is no secret exhaust, so even if the Death Star plans were leaked, I doubt the Republic would be able to stop it. The Separatists then take over the galaxy lead by the corrupt corporations. Instead of an Imperial era, the era of money reigns supreme. What about not taking over the Banking Clan? Well, since the Banking Clan was always favoring the CIS to the Republic, the Republic would eventually suffer the economic depression the Separatists likely did after the Battle of Scipio. And if the Separatists did keep the entire Banking Clan, the corporations would get even richer. Heck, corporations across the galaxy would likely switch sides and swear loyalty since the Separatists would have most of the money. Sure there were banks like the Bank of the Core, but nothing it seems could compare to the reach and influence of the Banking Clan. Eventually Dooku may realize he can finally overthrow his master. After all he could easily get Republic worlds to join the CIS in exchange for economic salvation. So either way the Republic eventually surrenders one exchange for an end to their economic depression. Dooku likely outs Palpatine who would already be unpopular for losing the banks. As a Sith Lord he probably would order for the construction of the Death Star which would go as fast as the Empire’s construction since he would have nationalized the banks and have the corporations in the Separatist Council along with Poggle and Geonosis. This sounds good, though since throughout the Clone Wars Dooku took power and became a dictator in the CIS, things eventually wouldn’t go well. The Core Worlds would be treated like the Outer Rim did during the reign of the Empire. Instead of Imperial warlords ruling over the people, rich corporations would be filling this role. The Separatist Parliament eventually gets dissolved if Dooku accuses them of being Republic sympathizers. Oh, and Padme gets executed before getting pregnant, so no Luke or Leia. All and all, I guess you can agree with the trap notion of the Clone Wars. Besides the obvious things that would go wrong right away, there are also things we as fans know that would also happen. So while people argue the Jedi should never have joined the war effort and the Republic should have tried to end the Clone Wars peacefully, it’s hard to do so even if Palpatine is gone, because as we have seen with the end of the Galactic Civil War, a galaxy after Palpatine is one where his agents continue his work after him. Now all of this does show that the best way for all of this to be avoided was if the Republic never became corrupt and complacent in the first place or at least never vote Palpatine into power and properly fighting back against the corporations before Palpatine can use them again. Still when the Clone Wars began, I would say the Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order conducted themselves in the best way they could under the circumstances.
Simple papa palp let them win😂
The Senate bid the Republic to win.
Star Wars scale is pathetic and stupid and should really be changed in a canon overhaul.. thousands of Systems with Billions of inhabitants on many worlds come easily into trillions and quadrillions of people, soldiers and clankers and all that was stopped by according to lore 1.2million clones. Are you kidding? 1% of the Imperial Guard (nom-spacemarine) could then takeover the whole Star Wars galaxy in a whim.
According to lore the GAR hat 4 system armies with ca. 300k clones each. That is nothing. Countries on our world would easily be able to win just atrition, not to speal of our world combined.. we would kick their ass even with Jedi.
10th I'm early love the content
In truth the Clone Wars would won by the Confederacy’s if not by Darth Sidious meddling. The Confederacy had the largest army in galactic history, and enough resources to overrun the Galactic Republic, but Sidious had to let the Republic because it will be more easier to control for the Sith Lord.
Without Palpatine, the Separatists as we know them would not exist. There likely still have been a war, but the Jedi and the Republic would have had the advantage because the corporations never would have united without Palpatine.
@@sethnanney448 Not to mention the fact that they would not have as massive of an army in most cases. Since it literally bankrupted most of them.
@@somethingwithultra7231 Agreed.
1 minute 6 views nice :trol:
Geetsly is like a poor man’s eckhart’s ladder. It gets the job done but it’s a bit shit.
funny how the armies of millions never seem to include freighters with supplies (asside from some token ones i guess)
but seriously; even now during the Ukraine war Russian soldiers seem to have trouble even feeding their soldiers, certainly providing them with fuel and their wages are worh a fraction of what they were before the war because of inflation, main point being that it is sad that logistics still do not play a big role in such franchises
Almost first