This is probably your best video ever: you took one topic others have gone through before (Jay, John, Ron, etc.) and not only you made it one of a kind, but also you brought the explanation to the next level. Very well done.
I know you did this video 2 years ago. But I'm researching REL subwoofers now, because I'm going to buy the TZero model. And I must tell you, this is by far the BEST video explaining about subwoofers I have ever watched! This is even better than the REL videos by Hunter. So thank you very very much, this knowledge is very helpful to me
I know I'm repeating previous comments, but I don't care. Bravo! Easily the best subwoofer video, for two channel stereo listening, that I have ever watched. Your explanations and examples as they relate to space and soundstage in particular, were very well done. Keep up the great work!
Great video and explanation of how our subwoofers can benefit a sound system. With the KEF LS50 we would recommend a T/7x, but given that you focus on a more budget minded audience that may likely be too costly of an investment.
Dear Rel Acoustics, please take each and every word said in this video seriously and try to integrate it into your manuals and instruction video’s, especially for hifi enthusiasts (the current instructions just don’t make much sense if you try to properly integrate a sub into a hifi system). Best regards, Evert Nijhof (proud and very satisfied owner of a Rel T7X since three weeks)
@@evertnijhof7202 totally agree. The crossover instructions are a bit lacking and the ‘sneakers’ track they suggest is a good starting point but won’t tell you the whole story, in my view.
This is the best explanation of how a subwoofer functions in a stereo system and a room, that I have heard. Great job! Yes - the aim of time alignment of speakers is have the center of all the driver voice coils the same distance from your ears. Since the larger a cone driver is, the farther back the voice coil is. That principle can guide you a way to get the music from the main speakers and the bass part of the music coming from the sub - literally measure the direct point to point distances: the midpoint between the tweeter and the mid/woofer of the main speakers to your ears - will give you the distance from your ears to the acoustic center of the subwoofer. So, with this sub that would be about 20cm/8" up the side of the sub that is facing you - if you add half the dimension of the cabinet depth - about 15cm/6". Fine tune it from there ... Another sub that might be good to review is the RSL SpeedWoofer 10S - it is larger than this one, but less money. And it plays deeper. It is somewhere between a ported design and a mass loaded transmission line design.
Very enjoyable to watch even though I'm not even in the market for a sub anymore. I appreciate your ability to provide insight without being pretentious
I followed John Hunter's advice about putting the sub in the corner. I did that and it worked for me. I spent about 20 - 30 minutes tweaking the toe-in and distance from the front wall. The result was that the sub (a Rel G2) integrated with main speakers, so that I can not hear the sub as a separate unit.
I really like your videos. No nonsense, basic descriptions of the benefits of the electronic components. I feel like you're giving me an honest review.
I'm experimenting with one of these right now with my Harbeth 30.2 XD in a small apartment. I was a bit apprehensive about using such an "affordable" sub with these speakers, but I was afraid to go any bigger in my small room. So far I actually really like the combo, I think it helps that the 8" driver size of the Rel is exactly the same as my Harbeth woofer/midrange. I have it in a corner about 1ft away from each wall, but within a foot of my right speaker (just behind it diagonally) so I think the integration is working well with corner placement. I did have to turn the level down a bit, but now I'm at the point where it just makes my speakers sound bigger, and I'm no longer consciously listening for/to the sub. I'm sure I'll tinker with it more, but this is easily one of the most cost effective upgrades I've ever done, I'm likely going to keep it.
Really well explained, well done. Also thank you for suggesting priorities to guide one in putting together/ purchasing a system of audio components. This is a valuable service . Cheers.
Best overall explanation of adding a subwoofer. I purchased a used REL subwoofer t9i and are completely happy with the results. Exactly what you explained.
Recently purchased my T/5x. Your video was one of many I found on RUclips. However, yours was the most helpful to me in understanding and setting up my sub. Great video!
I rewatched this today and realized how well you explained what a sub actually adds to the listening experience. After visiting several great home systems in 2021 I realized they all incorporated 2 or more subs. Sometimes via active crossovers. So I bought one to start and am pleased.
👏Congratulations on your purchase. Hegel amplifier + LS50 is a great match. By adding a REL subwoofer is a perfect combination. This is the combo that I have been waiting for... and is from you 👍 If only one sub, you can consider put it in the center in between your LS50. You may start the gain at center then slowly adjust down, until you feel the bass is no longer coming from the REL (feel like the REL is disabled) and seem like all the bass is coming from your LS50, that should be around the right level of gain. Again, you may consider start the bass frequency level at center then slowly tune down until you don't hear double bass (two layer of bass) then the bass frequency should be around there. If the location of the subwoofer is horizontal in line with your LS50 or behind can consider the phase at 0. If in front the horizontal line then may consider set the phase to 180. From there, you fine tune the it. When the phase is corrected, should start to hear sound stage and image (improved). You also can try to turn your subwoofer left/right 45 degree, to have better phase matching. When everything is tuned correctly, the bass should integrated seamless to your LS50 (no double bass), the REL subwoofer should disappear and listener by right should hear (thought) the sub-bass is coming from the LS50 and not from the REL. There is no definite guidelines just my humble sharing and some experiences been passed to me from a longtime REL owner. Now, you have one of the greatest combo. By the way, in my mind this is one of my idea setup too, enjoy...
Excellent advice. I have started to re-arrange placement of my subwoofer to try to get the best integration and sound with my system. Keep up these great videos.
I must say that this video is so highly educational. Forget the product itself, so many good subs out there. I Just love your straight talk on how sub bass works and how to integrate using placement and dials is gold itself.
Brilliant analogy with the sketches. I didn't think of that before. Yes, the added bass is not just only the low frequency notes but it also adds body to higher frequency mids as well. Voices that felt a bit think is now just a bit more full. For me, I was blown away with the TZero MKIII, first by the amount of bass produced by the size, then by the speed and integration with my system. I have bookshelves as my mains and they all benefit from having a sub. It adds more body without taking away detail. Now I must have a sub with every system, only because I know it will be much better. Changing from a $1K amp to a $2K amp won't bring out the deep sonic frequencies that this sub can. I think it's a great investment to your overall listening pleasures.
I have just seen this video and, like your other correspondence , agree that this is the best review you have ever done, As the recent buyer of a sub, purchased last August, I have found that it's not just about the bass the sub produces, it's about blending in with your existing music system and lifting your enjoyment of music to a whole new level. Listening to music for the first time with my new sub, for me, added a whole new dimension of sounds, enjoyability and made me realise that I was previously missing depth and feeling from my music. It also made me realise that without a sub music seemed shallow but now I can hear the singers in my albums enjoying the songs they're singing. In other words, my sub has added life to the music I listen to. And you have articulated all that in your review, well done. Regards Bob
Belissimo! Great explaination behind the advantages of adding a sub woofer and why the REL T5x is superior.. The drawing example explained it so clearly. A real artist! seeing and hearing are connected! Thank you.
Thanks for the review I have had my T5x for a couple weeks now. Like you I placed it at first in corner but have since moved it to right of speaker and it sounds so much better.
I've learned more from this review about subs than others. I only concentrated on the lower frequencies. I just learned in the last couple times listening what it does to the entire sound stage. Sound stage is larger, extended, deeper, wider, more alive. I have a pare of Rel Strata lll subs I've not played in years since I bought two Rel T9/x subs. I ended up with a position on the inside of my modded Magnepan 1.6's.
Wow! This is VERY helpful. I have the KEF LS50 Meta and just got the REL 5.1. I've been experimenting and having fun. I moved the REL from the corner to next to my right speaker and the bass tightened up and seemed faster. I am using the KEFs as near field monitors in a small room. Awesome! Thanks so much!
Agree with other comments... excellent video review. I have just started testing the REL T9x with my system and will try placing the sub in different areas in my room. Keep up the great work!
I’m running 2 T7/X’s and a T5/X as a Center Sub, In a medium sized room in concert with my Focal Kanta No 1’s , with A call to REL and Jay’s approval . It’s not over kill if you’re serious about setting up subs just as discussed. It’s wonderful! Great job on your video and btw your presentations are all so smooth and laid back it is a relief!
Thank you very much for your helpful video. My Magnepan LRS speakers arrived recently (after a five month wait), and I knew after two days that: (1) the LRSs are great and (2) I would need a subwoofer or two. I saw many videos and read many reviews saying good things about the REL T series. The REL T/7i subwoofer was on The Absolute Sound list of "50 Greatest Bargains in High-End Audio" (as was the LRS). That list and your video made me pull the trigger on buying my two REL T/7x subwoofers (the newer version of the T/7i) much quicker than I usually would on such a large purchase--especially with no in-person experience. I went with two T/7xs for--GULP--$2,000 while the LRSs were $650, but for me the RELs were well worth it. I would have preferred the size and price of the T/5xs, but I really wanted the front-firing version. My front end is all Schiit: Bifrost DAC, Freya+ preamp, two Vidar amps as monoblocks. I didn't get to hear anything in person before buying it, but I am very happy with my system that came in at about $5,600 total with taxes and shipping.
I always find myself looking forward to your reviews. The way you convey your reviews which such ease and detail is really refreshing. I'm hoping you do more speaker reviews.
Looking at getting my 1st sub. REL S/510. Your video has covered all the questions i had re placement and set up in my room. Its an odd shape, multiple pieces of furniture and no real corner option. I feel a lot more confident that a set up closer to my speakers will work for me. Great work, thanks from NZ
Bravo! Love the idea of trying different locations. I have Magnapan MMG and had my Focal Cub 2 in the corner. Started to move it forward and closer to the right channel. Trying out other positions as well. Great video and explanation. THANKS.
Like everyone has said, this is the best subwoofer explanation I have come across. I do have the same set up as you have except the room. 😊 I appreciate the detailed steps you took to calibrate your system. Now that I understand gain and crossover, i can better calibrate my system! Thanks very much!
@ac, Woosh ! it is the level of consciousness of the perceived /listener that determines the quality of any and all external experiences including but not limited to sound . for example in sleep there is no perceived sound so quality is not an issue . however waking state could comprise any number of states where quality and sensitivity would be varied . a dull sleepy mind or one influenced by alcohol /drugs / disease etc would color the external impulses moving through the ear canal and into the brain . by improving ones subjective state , all internal experience of sound can be refined regardless of the immediate environment , as in the conditioned room . without the observer of the external world there can be no hearing/ listening . improve the listener first and then work on the gear and environment. Of course that will never happen to most audiophiles as their attention is fixated on the gear.
Thanks for such an informative video. I've been thinking about adding a sub to my system for a few months, I've been hesitant due to a lack of knowledge about the qualities a sub would add. I have a pair of LS50 Meta and have been interested in REL also because of the High Level Input from my amp. This is the best review on the subject I have come across in understanding a sub especially REL and has helped me a lot. Thank you my friend. Be well
Yes, yes and YES! Srboljub, I watched your video AFTER setting up my subs. 🙂After extremely careful consideration I bought two of these T/5Xs (The pair for $1148 on sale and discount from distributor!), to complement my DynAudio Contour 20s primarily for a stereo-amp listening for music, and secondarily for use with a separate AVR for movies and TV... I, like you had no experience properly integrating subs as extension of my speakers for stereo listening….I have placed my subs directly behind each speaker (touching the backs of the stands with high-current connectors), as my room has space constraints and I can't place them next to the speakers.The initial temptation is to have the subs turned up way too high, (being a man..to hear my new toys 😁). For stereo listening 👂 with a LOT of patience and perseverance, I arrived at the same "click settings" as YOU! 😀…It was against my manliness…LOL!..but if I listened with my ears the truth was found! THANK YOU so much for stating your precise "click stop" sweet spot. Mine is the SAME HERE! This took quite a bit of time because of my inexperience! You have confirmed my insanity! 😂 Now..what put me over the top with the REL Subs, is that they are designed in a way to wonderfully meet my secondary need: connecting to a separate AVR for movies. I ran LFEs from the AVR to the separate LFE inputs on the back of The RELS. The LFE input on The RELS has it OWN SEPARATE VOLUME CONTROL!!! (REL states it is safe to hook up this way with two separate power sources). This way…I have the volume knobs turned up to 10-12 clicks so that I get more grunt for my movies and never have to mess with tuning the subs for my different needs. WHAT A SET-UP! THANKS for your extremely detailed discussion…I am sure that I am getting the most from my 2 systems with these subs!!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
What an EXCELLENT explanation of your experience!!!!! I find myself feeling so happy for you!! I just wish I could come over and have you show me your setup in person! So much fun!
You are spot on in describing the set up of this sub. You have to set this up to your system and when it ‘snaps’ into place you immediately know it…it sounds integrated if you take the time to set it up right. And it’s not about cranking it up all the way. The qualitative bass can be heard once you get it set up to your liking. Once I got it dialed in (over time) I marked the settings to maintain the seamless blend.
Respectfully: This is your first REL. You should follow the manufacturer instructions! I just got my 6th REL. A Britannia B3. (Long before these I was using a Rogers LSB1 symmetrically between the speakers). Up to now I have been using stereo REL subs. I was concerned that just using the one sub would unbalance the soundstage. Not true. The extension is very controlled and impossible to locate the source of the sub bass. When I got it set up, my wife asked how come she could hear the bass guitar coming from the left side of the Sound stage when the B3 was on the right! (Fat Freddy's Drop- Ernie) The only way you can localize a sub is if you have the crossover frequency and volume set too high. That's a beginner's mistake! Richard E. Lord founded his designs on corner placements. That's how they're voiced 🎶🤫🎶
This is s fantastic video, not just your best (and I've seen many of yours), but overall in two channel audio space (and I regularly watch all the usual suspects😅). I've had exactly those black LS 50 you have in this video, and I have gone through all you have described with my subwoofer. But you explained to me "why". The depth, the improved imaging, are all things I've lived first hand literally two years before watching this video (regrettably) only today on Jan 3rd 2024. But I've to add more. Recently I've stepped up to the B&W 803 D4 and albeit they can go down to 19 Hz, I'm still using the same subwoofer I was using with the LS 50, even though this sub only goes down to 27 Hz. And it still improves my experience with the 803 D4. How? By evening out the nodes that form in my listening room at 43 Hz! It took a lot of analysis with REW and a lot of time to find the right place and setup for the sub to reach this objective, but the results are staggering. And the sub I've used costs 1/50 (list price) of the main speakers. Maybe a better sub would align even better with the 803 D4, but I'm already super impressed with what I got from a 400€ out of production sub (Indiana Line Basso 942).
Fantastic video/ tutorial….. you’ve done a great service to those of us new to the subject of how to go about integrating a sub into the sound system and more so because of my need to fill the very low frequency spectrum shortcomings of the main speakers in my system. Awesome!!!
Great analogy of how a subwoofer enhances the sound. A musical subwoofer will truly change the way you listen to music. Pair a musical sub with a speaker like the LS50, you have the detail and refinement of the LS50 but also have the deep bass and dimension only a subwoofer could provide. It’s a killer combination. I’m looking into either a T7/x or T9/x for my LS50W2. I had the 5/x in the small room upstairs and it was game changing. I moved them to another room that’s much larger so need a higher output model. The passion that REL puts into its produce is enough to buy alone. John Hunter is a very genuine guy and knows his stuff.
@@YouriCviklinski I got a Rel T9/x but I upgraded my system completely. Sold LS50s got Buchardt S400MK2 and Denon PMA A-110 amp with Sabaj A14D 2022 edition DAC. Sold the sub as well.
Thank you very much for your excellent review! It helped a lot convincing me to choose the T5x to complement the Cambridge Audio CXA61 / Fyne Audio 502 floorstanders combo. Apparently small and seemingly underpowered (120w), but in my over 40m² living room it makes quite a difference. Best regards
Congratulations, its high profesional review. Yo give me all information and much more that I was searching for. Thank you , keep it that way and very best regards.
Bravo majstore! Potpuno ista iskustva sam stekao u svom sistemu. Već neko vreme se igram sa ELAC-ovim 101 ESP. Merenja u REW softweru dodatno otvaraju oči po pitanju sobne akustike, pikova i dipova na koje sub lekovito deluje. Meni npr. dominantni sobni mod na 34Hz i nešto manje intenzivan na 60Hz, su potpuno iščezli na nekim podešavanjima samog noba za Gain. Merenje koliko pomaže toliko i unosi varijabli za probe, a jedna je kičma!
Excellent review. Please continue to use visual references. So many reviewers use textual references and its nice to see/imagine reviews in a different way. Thank you so much.
Thank you. You told me what I needed to know especially as I do not have the recommended corner available in my room, do not want to have two subs in my view and do have space near my right speaher where a REL 7 will not look intrusive. I will now consider at least trying one.
I was thinking about getting a sub and a friend of mine who has been in to home audio for 30 years told me to go with REL. When I was looking at subs one thing stood out “they only make subwoofers” after I saw that I realized that in order to pull that off their subs would have to integrate with what you have. Which was exactly what I was looking for. Most other subwoofers are designed to work with the company’s other speakers. This told me they would have the controls to integrate them with my speakers. Long story short, I’m really happy I went with REL and if I built another system I choose them again without a second thought.
I echo your findings 100%. I use a pair of s510 subwoofers and have them time aligned the same way you do. On the inside worked best for me as well. They are locked together perfectly.
This video definitely made me to look up for a REL Subwoofer! Great explanation! Thank you! I will try to see what matches for my Audio Physic Classic 20
Ha! Right on…I was wondering about this. You’re finding/experimentation makes perfect sense for those with smaller rooms (maybe?)…I want to integrate one of these, but feel the room gain would be an insane issue if placed in the far corner. Had a short time with a t5/i and was starting to move it closer to the left speaker, wish I’d had more time with it. Thank you for addressing the timing and orientation for the sake of integrating a sub in a smaller two channel setup. Again, so comprehensive and informative with music and localization in mind. I think I’ll now get one 🙏🏼👍🏼
I was looking for copper and I got gold!!! I'm just changing my Klipsch r120w for the Rel T/X7 since I'm looking for more musical quality and not a simple roar. Thank you very much for your recommendations. I will put it to the test on Monday. I subscribe to
Very nice review... I really enjoyed your presentation and I also loved your use of the two pencils and how the softer pencil enables you to get greater depth...
Very detailed but quite interesting and I think will help me to merge my subs with the main Goldenear towers, even though they go down very low themselves. Thanks so much for this unique explanation, that uses the ears to use it, in the end the only way to do it.
Superb explanations of the soundstage depth and impact on treble. Not the easiest concepts to communicate, but you do it well. Oh and you can really draw as well 👍👍
I think everybody should get a subwoofer. Whether you just want to compress your room because you like a lot of bass, or you want be subtle with it like you, and just barely add a little depth and ambience to the sound stage. Subs are a really great tool to have in any two channel system. No true audiophile should be without one. 🤣 Thanks again for the great video. Best explanation of how a sub integrates into a two channel system I have ever heard. Awesome job!
Hi. Great video. I am looking at this bass to add to my 2ch setup. I was wondering if the t5x will enough, but I think it will. Also just to defend Hunter. There is no recommended bass placement as all rooms differ, but starting in a corner and moving around until you find a perfect spot is what everyone should do. Not a bad starting point. Everyone should experiment.
i have KEF LS 50 wireless and Rel T5i. I placed the sub behind my listening position against the wall, set low pass to 55hz and gain at about one third. i have to say if I didnt have a sub I would not be happy with my LS50s and would probably sell them. With a sub its a decent Hi Fi system. Thanks for the video
I bought one this week. The only thing I would add, is give it at least 8-10 hours of burn in time, before trying to find proper / perfect placement and setting. it improved for me in effect and timing. the track that helped me with timing/phase is palmistry by Tabla Beat Science. It is a lot of various percussion beats in the track. Also check the power cable is properly pushed in. Mine was not, so I think it also affected performance. Pretty happy at the moment.
I've always connected my subs via high level - seems to work the best in my experience. Ultimately, I would prefer no sub, but speakers that go down as low as I want cost an arm and a leg. This video was very entertaining. Good stuff.
I am buying this to go with Sonus Faber Lumia 2's. I just want a little more low end but I don't want big boomy bass because I am in a small condo and have to consider neighbors. There isn't a better sub woofer review on the internet than this. Awesome video
This is probably your best video ever: you took one topic others have gone through before (Jay, John, Ron, etc.) and not only you made it one of a kind, but also you brought the explanation to the next level. Very well done.
First sub review?
Wow…better than 90% of sub woofer reviews out there. Good job. 👍
I know you did this video 2 years ago. But I'm researching REL subwoofers now, because I'm going to buy the TZero model.
And I must tell you, this is by far the BEST video explaining about subwoofers I have ever watched!
This is even better than the REL videos by Hunter. So thank you very very much, this knowledge is very helpful to me
I know I'm repeating previous comments, but I don't care. Bravo! Easily the best subwoofer video, for two channel stereo listening, that I have ever watched. Your explanations and examples as they relate to space and soundstage in particular, were very well done. Keep up the great work!
Great video and explanation of how our subwoofers can benefit a sound system. With the KEF LS50 we would recommend a T/7x, but given that you focus on a more budget minded audience that may likely be too costly of an investment.
Thanks, glad you liked it. I'm enjoying it very much and hoping to explore bigger models and stereo setups when and if my budget allows it.
I’ll see what we can do about that. Where are you located?
@@RELAcoustics Serbia. We can also continue this conversation by mail. Just write me at iiwireviewsmail@gmail.com.
Dear Rel Acoustics, please take each and every word said in this video seriously and try to integrate it into your manuals and instruction video’s, especially for hifi enthusiasts (the current instructions just don’t make much sense if you try to properly integrate a sub into a hifi system).
Best regards,
Evert Nijhof (proud and very satisfied owner of a Rel T7X since three weeks)
@@evertnijhof7202 totally agree. The crossover instructions are a bit lacking and the ‘sneakers’ track they suggest is a good starting point but won’t tell you the whole story, in my view.
Glad to hear that other people spend weeks, and then more weeks, deciding how they feel about a change.
You explain this beautifully in better English than a lot of RUclipsrs. Thank you.
This is the best explanation of how a subwoofer functions in a stereo system and a room, that I have heard. Great job!
Yes - the aim of time alignment of speakers is have the center of all the driver voice coils the same distance from your ears. Since the larger a cone driver is, the farther back the voice coil is.
That principle can guide you a way to get the music from the main speakers and the bass part of the music coming from the sub - literally measure the direct point to point distances: the midpoint between the tweeter and the mid/woofer of the main speakers to your ears - will give you the distance from your ears to the acoustic center of the subwoofer. So, with this sub that would be about 20cm/8" up the side of the sub that is facing you - if you add half the dimension of the cabinet depth - about 15cm/6". Fine tune it from there ...
Another sub that might be good to review is the RSL SpeedWoofer 10S - it is larger than this one, but less money. And it plays deeper. It is somewhere between a ported design and a mass loaded transmission line design.
Very enjoyable to watch even though I'm not even in the market for a sub anymore. I appreciate your ability to provide insight without being pretentious
I followed John Hunter's advice about putting the sub in the corner. I did that and it worked for me. I spent about 20 - 30 minutes tweaking the toe-in and distance from the front wall. The result was that the sub (a Rel G2) integrated with main speakers, so that I can not hear the sub as a separate unit.
I really like your videos. No nonsense, basic descriptions of the benefits of the electronic components. I feel like you're giving me an honest review.
I'm experimenting with one of these right now with my Harbeth 30.2 XD in a small apartment. I was a bit apprehensive about using such an "affordable" sub with these speakers, but I was afraid to go any bigger in my small room. So far I actually really like the combo, I think it helps that the 8" driver size of the Rel is exactly the same as my Harbeth woofer/midrange. I have it in a corner about 1ft away from each wall, but within a foot of my right speaker (just behind it diagonally) so I think the integration is working well with corner placement. I did have to turn the level down a bit, but now I'm at the point where it just makes my speakers sound bigger, and I'm no longer consciously listening for/to the sub. I'm sure I'll tinker with it more, but this is easily one of the most cost effective upgrades I've ever done, I'm likely going to keep it.
Really well explained, well done. Also thank you for suggesting priorities to guide one in putting together/ purchasing a system of audio components. This is a valuable service .
Cheers.
Amazing job my man . That is the best explanation of the sub I've heard. I totally understand now how to set up. Thanks.
Best overall explanation of adding a subwoofer. I purchased a used REL subwoofer t9i and are completely happy with the results. Exactly what you explained.
Recently purchased my T/5x. Your video was one of many I found on RUclips. However, yours was the most helpful to me in understanding and setting up my sub. Great video!
I rewatched this today and realized how well you explained what a sub actually adds to the listening experience. After visiting several great home systems in 2021 I realized they all incorporated 2 or more subs. Sometimes via active crossovers. So I bought one to start and am pleased.
👏Congratulations on your purchase. Hegel amplifier + LS50 is a great match. By adding a REL subwoofer is a perfect combination. This is the combo that I have been waiting for... and is from you 👍
If only one sub, you can consider put it in the center in between your LS50.
You may start the gain at center then slowly adjust down, until you feel the bass is no longer coming from the REL (feel like the REL is disabled) and seem like all the bass is coming from your LS50, that should be around the right level of gain.
Again, you may consider start the bass frequency level at center then slowly tune down until you don't hear double bass (two layer of bass) then the bass frequency should be around there.
If the location of the subwoofer is horizontal in line with your LS50 or behind can consider the phase at 0. If in front the horizontal line then may consider set the phase to 180. From there, you fine tune the it. When the phase is corrected, should start to hear sound stage and image (improved).
You also can try to turn your subwoofer left/right 45 degree, to have better phase matching.
When everything is tuned correctly, the bass should integrated seamless to your LS50 (no double bass), the REL subwoofer should disappear and listener by right should hear (thought) the sub-bass is coming from the LS50 and not from the REL.
There is no definite guidelines just my humble sharing and some experiences been passed to me from a longtime REL owner.
Now, you have one of the greatest combo. By the way, in my mind this is one of my idea setup too, enjoy...
Excellent advice. I have started to re-arrange placement of my subwoofer to try to get the best integration and sound with my system. Keep up these great videos.
I must say that this video is so highly educational. Forget the product itself, so many good subs out there. I Just love your straight talk on how sub bass works and how to integrate using placement and dials is gold itself.
Brilliant analogy with the sketches. I didn't think of that before. Yes, the added bass is not just only the low frequency notes but it also adds body to higher frequency mids as well. Voices that felt a bit think is now just a bit more full.
For me, I was blown away with the TZero MKIII, first by the amount of bass produced by the size, then by the speed and integration with my system. I have bookshelves as my mains and they all benefit from having a sub. It adds more body without taking away detail. Now I must have a sub with every system, only because I know it will be much better.
Changing from a $1K amp to a $2K amp won't bring out the deep sonic frequencies that this sub can. I think it's a great investment to your overall listening pleasures.
I have just seen this video and, like your other correspondence , agree that this is the best review you have ever done, As the recent buyer of a sub, purchased last August, I have found that it's not just about the bass the sub produces, it's about blending in with your existing music system and lifting your enjoyment of music to a whole new level.
Listening to music for the first time with my new sub, for me, added a whole new dimension of sounds, enjoyability and made me realise that I was previously missing depth and feeling from my music. It also made me realise that without a sub music seemed shallow but now I can hear the singers in my albums enjoying the songs they're singing. In other words, my sub has added life to the music I listen to.
And you have articulated all that in your review, well done.
Regards
Bob
This is the best and most descriptive analysis of integrating a sub that I have heard. Good job man and thank you!
Great analogy with the drawing and shading! I just got the T/5x a few days ago and I totally get what you mean. Spot on!
Belissimo! Great explaination behind the advantages of adding a sub woofer and why the REL T5x is superior.. The drawing example explained it so clearly. A real artist! seeing and hearing are connected! Thank you.
Thanks for the review I have had my T5x for a couple weeks now. Like you I placed it at first in corner but have since moved it to right of speaker and it sounds so much better.
Great to hear that. Enjoy it! 👍
I've learned more from this review about subs than others. I only concentrated on the lower frequencies. I just learned in the last couple times listening what it does to the entire sound stage. Sound stage is larger, extended, deeper, wider, more alive. I have a pare of Rel Strata lll subs I've not played in years since I bought
two Rel T9/x subs. I ended up with a position on the inside of my modded Magnepan 1.6's.
Wow! This is VERY helpful. I have the KEF LS50 Meta and just got the REL 5.1. I've been experimenting and having fun. I moved the REL from the corner to next to my right speaker and the bass tightened up and seemed faster. I am using the KEFs as near field monitors in a small room. Awesome! Thanks so much!
Agree with other comments... excellent video review. I have just started testing the REL T9x with my system and will try placing the sub in different areas in my room. Keep up the great work!
One of the most intelligent reviewers. His reviews always provide excellent contexts and perspectives. Never pretentious, which is really welcome.
loving your videos! I learned more about my new REL sub from your video than watching 6 other videos on YT.
The best subwoofer review I’ve seen on RUclips. Bravo!!!
You just got it! I use RELs since 35 years:Stadium, Stentor and tomorrow I will get a tiny T/zero Mk lll for a litte room
Greetings! What’s your experience with them?
They play incredibly fast. A good investment for a little room@@vladimirerfan7721
I’m running 2 T7/X’s and a T5/X as a Center Sub, In a medium sized room in concert with my Focal Kanta No 1’s , with A call to REL and Jay’s approval . It’s not over kill if you’re serious about setting up subs just as discussed. It’s wonderful! Great job on your video and btw your presentations are all so smooth and laid back it is a relief!
You have done a fantastic job of explaining it all. Thank you.
Nice descriptions and comparisons ! for a first purchase, spot on with your observations ! Review with a soul !
I feel that you gave a very excellent description of base in your presentation.
Thank you very much for your helpful video. My Magnepan LRS speakers arrived recently (after a five month wait), and I knew after two days that: (1) the LRSs are great and (2) I would need a subwoofer or two. I saw many videos and read many reviews saying good things about the REL T series. The REL T/7i subwoofer was on The Absolute Sound list of "50 Greatest Bargains in High-End Audio" (as was the LRS). That list and your video made me pull the trigger on buying my two REL T/7x subwoofers (the newer version of the T/7i) much quicker than I usually would on such a large purchase--especially with no in-person experience. I went with two T/7xs for--GULP--$2,000 while the LRSs were $650, but for me the RELs were well worth it. I would have preferred the size and price of the T/5xs, but I really wanted the front-firing version. My front end is all Schiit: Bifrost DAC, Freya+ preamp, two Vidar amps as monoblocks. I didn't get to hear anything in person before buying it, but I am very happy with my system that came in at about $5,600 total with taxes and shipping.
I always find myself looking forward to your reviews. The way you convey your reviews which such ease and detail is really refreshing. I'm hoping you do more speaker reviews.
Looking at getting my 1st sub. REL S/510. Your video has covered all the questions i had re placement and set up in my room. Its an odd shape, multiple pieces of furniture and no real corner option. I feel a lot more confident that a set up closer to my speakers will work for me. Great work, thanks from NZ
you are probably the best audio review channel on youtube. thanks for the vid
Bravo! Love the idea of trying different locations. I have Magnapan MMG and had my Focal Cub 2 in the corner. Started to move it forward and closer to the right channel.
Trying out other positions as well. Great video and explanation. THANKS.
I have the same experience with my sub, but you give exactly the right words for it. Great job, great ears and great words for what you hear.
I got mine after watching your review!.. Mission accomplished :D BTW.. I Love it. Now I cannot live without it.
Здорово, тоже жду и хочу остановиться)))
Like everyone has said, this is the best subwoofer explanation I have come across. I do have the same set up as you have except the room. 😊
I appreciate the detailed steps you took to calibrate your system. Now that I understand gain and crossover, i can better calibrate my system!
Thanks very much!
You just learned that the most important component in an audiophile system is? The room!!!
Yep I have a small man cave. Put my sub in the corner about 8 inches from the wall perfect.
@arc- the most important component in an audiophile system is the LISTENER.
Condition the listener , not the room
@@siriosstar4789 no clue, new kid on the block.
@ac, Woosh !
it is the level of consciousness of the perceived /listener that determines the quality of any and all external experiences including but not limited to sound .
for example in sleep there is no perceived sound so quality is not an issue .
however waking state could comprise any number of states where quality and sensitivity would be varied .
a dull sleepy mind or one influenced by alcohol /drugs / disease etc would color the external impulses moving through the ear canal and into the brain .
by improving ones subjective state , all internal experience of sound can be refined regardless of the immediate environment , as in the conditioned room .
without the observer of the external world there can be no hearing/ listening .
improve the listener first and then work on the gear and environment.
Of course that will never happen to most audiophiles as their attention is fixated on the gear.
Thanks for such an informative video. I've been thinking about adding a sub to my system for a few months, I've been hesitant due to a lack of knowledge about the qualities a sub would add. I have a pair of LS50 Meta and have been interested in REL also because of the High Level Input from my amp. This is the best review on the subject I have come across in understanding a sub especially REL and has helped me a lot. Thank you my friend. Be well
I came up with the exact same sub placement next to the inside right ls50. Probably the best sound is with two in stereo though. Great video.
I second that - you’ll notice pair of subs change the sound signature quite a bit. It doesn’t “add-on” but provides further extension…
Thanks…. Your video was fantastic…. I have been looking at a sub for my LS50s and stumbled on your conversation…. Really solid. Thank you!
I ❤️ the size of the REL's! Alot of people say what a great value to performance the Speedwoofer 12s is but it's ginormous.
Yes, yes and YES! Srboljub, I watched your video AFTER setting up my subs. 🙂After extremely careful consideration I bought two of these T/5Xs (The pair for $1148 on sale and discount from distributor!), to complement my DynAudio Contour 20s primarily for a stereo-amp listening for music, and secondarily for use with a separate AVR for movies and TV... I, like you had no experience properly integrating subs as extension of my speakers for stereo listening….I have placed my subs directly behind each speaker (touching the backs of the stands with high-current connectors), as my room has space constraints and I can't place them next to the speakers.The initial temptation is to have the subs turned up way too high, (being a man..to hear my new toys 😁). For stereo listening 👂 with a LOT of patience and perseverance, I arrived at the same "click settings" as YOU! 😀…It was against my manliness…LOL!..but if I listened with my ears the truth was found! THANK YOU so much for stating your precise "click stop" sweet spot. Mine is the SAME HERE! This took quite a bit of time because of my inexperience! You have confirmed my insanity! 😂
Now..what put me over the top with the REL Subs, is that they are designed in a way to wonderfully meet my secondary need: connecting to a separate AVR for movies. I ran LFEs from the AVR to the separate LFE inputs on the back of The RELS. The LFE input on The RELS has it OWN SEPARATE VOLUME CONTROL!!! (REL states it is safe to hook up this way with two separate power sources). This way…I have the volume knobs turned up to 10-12 clicks so that I get more grunt for my movies and never have to mess with tuning the subs for my different needs. WHAT A SET-UP!
THANKS for your extremely detailed discussion…I am sure that I am getting the most from my 2 systems with these subs!!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
What an EXCELLENT explanation of your experience!!!!! I find myself feeling so happy for you!! I just wish I could come over and have you show me your setup in person! So much fun!
You are spot on in describing the set up of this sub. You have to set this up to your system and when it ‘snaps’ into place you immediately know it…it sounds integrated if you take the time to set it up right. And it’s not about cranking it up all the way. The qualitative bass can be heard once you get it set up to your liking. Once I got it dialed in (over time) I marked the settings to maintain the seamless blend.
Respectfully:
This is your first REL.
You should follow the manufacturer instructions!
I just got my 6th REL.
A Britannia B3.
(Long before these I was using a Rogers LSB1 symmetrically between the speakers).
Up to now I have been using stereo REL subs.
I was concerned that just using the one sub would unbalance the soundstage. Not true.
The extension is very controlled and impossible to locate the source of the sub bass. When I got it set up, my wife asked how come she could hear the bass guitar coming from the left side of the Sound stage when the B3 was on the right! (Fat Freddy's Drop- Ernie)
The only way you can localize a sub is if you have the crossover frequency and volume set too high. That's a beginner's mistake!
Richard E. Lord founded his designs on corner placements. That's how they're voiced
🎶🤫🎶
Fantastic video and I thoroughly enjoyed how you explained the use of bass from an everyday person to another everyday person. Thank you!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very informative. One of the best videos on the subject. Thank you.
Love the way you describe things, you have a good ear!
This is s fantastic video, not just your best (and I've seen many of yours), but overall in two channel audio space (and I regularly watch all the usual suspects😅).
I've had exactly those black LS 50 you have in this video, and I have gone through all you have described with my subwoofer. But you explained to me "why".
The depth, the improved imaging, are all things I've lived first hand literally two years before watching this video (regrettably) only today on Jan 3rd 2024.
But I've to add more.
Recently I've stepped up to the B&W 803 D4 and albeit they can go down to 19 Hz, I'm still using the same subwoofer I was using with the LS 50, even though this sub only goes down to 27 Hz. And it still improves my experience with the 803 D4. How? By evening out the nodes that form in my listening room at 43 Hz!
It took a lot of analysis with REW and a lot of time to find the right place and setup for the sub to reach this objective, but the results are staggering.
And the sub I've used costs 1/50 (list price) of the main speakers. Maybe a better sub would align even better with the 803 D4, but I'm already super impressed with what I got from a 400€ out of production sub (Indiana Line Basso 942).
Fantastic video/ tutorial….. you’ve done a great service to those of us new to the subject of how to go about integrating a sub into the sound system and more so because of my need to fill the very low frequency spectrum shortcomings of the main speakers in my system. Awesome!!!
Great analogy of how a subwoofer enhances the sound. A musical subwoofer will truly change the way you listen to music. Pair a musical sub with a speaker like the LS50, you have the detail and refinement of the LS50 but also have the deep bass and dimension only a subwoofer could provide. It’s a killer combination. I’m looking into either a T7/x or T9/x for my LS50W2.
I had the 5/x in the small room upstairs and it was game changing. I moved them to another room that’s much larger so need a higher output model.
The passion that REL puts into its produce is enough to buy alone. John Hunter is a very genuine guy and knows his stuff.
what you ended up getting? I also have the LS50W2 and looking for the best sub
@@YouriCviklinski I got a Rel T9/x but I upgraded my system completely. Sold LS50s got Buchardt S400MK2 and Denon PMA A-110 amp with Sabaj A14D 2022 edition DAC. Sold the sub as well.
Nice first sub, my man! Lucky you!
Thank you very much for your excellent review! It helped a lot convincing me to choose the T5x to complement the Cambridge Audio CXA61 / Fyne Audio 502 floorstanders combo. Apparently small and seemingly underpowered (120w), but in my over 40m² living room it makes quite a difference. Best regards
Your car crash analogy is spot on!
I am really impressed from this video. Thank you so much.
Wow great explanation. Very satisfied to watch this vlog ! Nice man...!
Well done! This is a very nice explanation of what a well integrated subwoofer can bring to your system.
Congratulations, its high profesional review. Yo give me all information and much more that I was searching for. Thank you , keep it that way and very best regards.
Man!! You have excelled so much in this video, Appreciate you
I watched this video twice. You are amazing!
This was awesome and you turned an excellent review into a teaching moment. Thank you!
Another really good review, thanks. Great analogies..."shading the soundstage" is brilliant!
Bravo majstore! Potpuno ista iskustva sam stekao u svom sistemu. Već neko vreme se igram sa ELAC-ovim 101 ESP. Merenja u REW softweru dodatno otvaraju oči po pitanju sobne akustike, pikova i dipova na koje sub lekovito deluje. Meni npr. dominantni sobni mod na 34Hz i nešto manje intenzivan na 60Hz, su potpuno iščezli na nekim podešavanjima samog noba za Gain. Merenje koliko pomaže toliko i unosi varijabli za probe, a jedna je kičma!
Excellent review. Please continue to use visual references. So many reviewers use textual references and its nice to see/imagine reviews in a different way. Thank you so much.
once you're in the game of sub, you're screwed!! you won't be able to live without one! Great vidéo.
Thank you. You told me what I needed to know especially as I do not have the recommended corner available in my room, do not want to have two subs in my view and do have space near my right speaher where a REL 7 will not look intrusive. I will now consider at least trying one.
I was thinking about getting a sub and a friend of mine who has been in to home audio for 30 years told me to go with REL. When I was looking at subs one thing stood out “they only make subwoofers” after I saw that I realized that in order to pull that off their subs would have to integrate with what you have. Which was exactly what I was looking for. Most other subwoofers are designed to work with the company’s other speakers. This told me they would have the controls to integrate them with my speakers. Long story short, I’m really happy I went with REL and if I built another system I choose them again without a second thought.
Excellent, well explained with how placement affects response.
I echo your findings 100%. I use a pair of s510 subwoofers and have them time aligned the same way you do. On the inside worked best for me as well. They are locked together perfectly.
Thank you for all the great details of the sub. Especially the clicks with the adjustment very important.
Brilliant description of how you set the sub up….really informative
Thank you for your excellent review and also for this wonderful album "Bass Room"
This video definitely made me to look up for a REL Subwoofer! Great explanation! Thank you! I will try to see what matches for my Audio Physic Classic 20
It was a great help in purchasing the product
It's a vicious video Thank you - South Korea
This is a great video! You did a great job in explaining a pretty complicated subject, Thanks!👍👍👍
Ha! Right on…I was wondering about this. You’re finding/experimentation makes perfect sense for those with smaller rooms (maybe?)…I want to integrate one of these, but feel the room gain would be an insane issue if placed in the far corner. Had a short time with a t5/i and was starting to move it closer to the left speaker, wish I’d had more time with it.
Thank you for addressing the timing and orientation for the sake of integrating a sub in a smaller two channel setup. Again, so comprehensive and informative with music and localization in mind. I think I’ll now get one 🙏🏼👍🏼
I was looking for copper and I got gold!!! I'm just changing my Klipsch r120w for the Rel T/X7 since I'm looking for more musical quality and not a simple roar. Thank you very much for your recommendations. I will put it to the test on Monday. I subscribe to
Very nice review... I really enjoyed your presentation and I also loved your use of the two pencils and how the softer pencil enables you to get greater depth...
Very nice and educational review, well done! I like it.
Very detailed but quite interesting and I think will help me to merge my subs with the main Goldenear towers, even though they go down very low themselves. Thanks so much for this unique explanation, that uses the ears to use it, in the end the only way to do it.
Excellent video. Exactly the explanation I was looking for! Thank you!
Superb explanations of the soundstage depth and impact on treble.
Not the easiest concepts to communicate, but you do it well.
Oh and you can really draw as well 👍👍
Thanks! Even though I can draw OK, I'm a bit rusty lately so this one was borrowed. 🙂
Wonderful channel generally, and review of this subwoofer specifically. Thank you.
Thank You very much for the insightful video on Subwoofer.
The best I have watched sofar...
Very well done...👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I think everybody should get a subwoofer. Whether you just want to compress your room because you like a lot of bass, or you want be subtle with it like you, and just barely add a little depth and ambience to the sound stage. Subs are a really great tool to have in any two channel system. No true audiophile should be without one. 🤣 Thanks again for the great video. Best explanation of how a sub integrates into a two channel system I have ever heard. Awesome job!
What cost effective sub for a stereo system for a 25 X 25 feet living room?
@@natnut2008 Try the Rel T5. Very nice, small, down firing sub. Will work well in a 25X25 room.
Great great explanation well done mate. hats off
Hi. Great video. I am looking at this bass to add to my 2ch setup. I was wondering if the t5x will enough, but I think it will. Also just to defend Hunter. There is no recommended bass placement as all rooms differ, but starting in a corner and moving around until you find a perfect spot is what everyone should do. Not a bad starting point. Everyone should experiment.
i have KEF LS 50 wireless and Rel T5i. I placed the sub behind my listening position against the wall, set low pass to 55hz and gain at about one third. i have to say if I didnt have a sub I would not be happy with my LS50s and would probably sell them. With a sub its a decent Hi Fi system. Thanks for the video
I bought one this week. The only thing I would add, is give it at least 8-10 hours of burn in time, before trying to find proper / perfect placement and setting. it improved for me in effect and timing. the track that helped me with timing/phase is palmistry by Tabla Beat Science. It is a lot of various percussion beats in the track. Also check the power cable is properly pushed in. Mine was not, so I think it also affected performance. Pretty happy at the moment.
Absolutely brilliant video!
I've always connected my subs via high level - seems to work the best in my experience. Ultimately, I would prefer no sub, but speakers that go down as low as I want cost an arm and a leg. This video was very entertaining. Good stuff.
I am buying this to go with Sonus Faber Lumia 2's. I just want a little more low end but I don't want big boomy bass because I am in a small condo and have to consider neighbors. There isn't a better sub woofer review on the internet than this. Awesome video