Can you do a video on the effects of adding a second subwoofer? Maybe contrasting effects of two cheaper subwoofers vs a similar priced better single subwoofer?
I have been using the TZero mkiii for over a year now. My use case is a small office / desktop system with neighbors around me, so I had to be very careful about choosing the right piece in order to enhance my musical enjoyment without angering folks. This woofer does that beautifully. Erin, I agree with your assessment here. My overall impressions: REL has this unique cable (High Level Neutrik Speakon) that connects it to the system using the high-level input. When you read why they recommend connecting it that way it makes total sense. Problem is the cable is 25 feet long, 10 feet longer than I need. Not an issue, I can cut to length. But the cable looks a bit cheesy, if I am being honest. I know it’s only to get signal, but it just doesn’t look like a good cable. I may try it at some point, but for ease of deployment I got a nice, quality RCA sub cable and connect from the amp’s sub out to the low-level input on the sub. After doing some reading I have discovered both inputs use the same filters, and you only give up about 5-6% performance. Now a little bit about the sub itself. First, let me say that this is a beautiful piece. Build quality is excellent. It’s pretty substantial (weighs about 16 pounds), is very well braced and has a beautifully done gloss Black finish that really makes it an eye grabber. The connectivity suite in the back is impressive, offering lots of options and precise controls. Everything about it just screams quality. And then I powered it on… Frankly I am very surprised by what it’s doing. For what it is, It’s surpassing all my expectations. It’s bringing that bass extension, that low-low end information in a way that is blowing my mind. There are no holes in the low-end frequency response now, and there is a new-found richness and power to the music with no sloppiness, undue rumble or lag. I know now what John Hunter was saying about making the sub disappear. You can do that with this one. The net result is a very-much enhanced listening experience as a whole. I feel like this woofer delivers great value for the performance it delivers.
Your data and observations square with my experience. I use a pair with small sealed bookshelf speakers rated at 70db. Great solution for apartment dwellers with neighbors.
What're you talking about, my neighbors loved my pair of velodyne 15" subs in my apartment, they tapped on the roof every time I played it as if to applaud!
Typically when a small speaker has a sensitivity rating of 70db that means they require more power to play, especially down low, so adding a small sub that can handle crossing over at more like 180hz such as this small rel then allows the 70db speakers motor to free up more energy for producing the higher frequencies, effectively raising their sensitivity.
@@WarriorProphet I get what a sensitivity rating is. I’ve just never seen any speakers that are so low. And it makes me think he was referring to something else. But he did say sealed. Still most are 85db, or higher nowadays. And I’m having trouble remembering ever seeing any speakers go below 80db actually. And from my experience with speakers (I have over 20 pairs myself ATM), I don’t think I would want a pair that is that low. Not a big fan of very low sensitivity (efficiency) speakers myself. Either way. Thanks for the reply. ✌️
@@WarriorProphet BTW I seriously doubt these will work up to 180hz. And the measurements reflect that. I own a pair of these, and they’re great. But they’re not designed to cross over that high. 100hz sure, but not that high. Besides IME you would definitely hear the disconnect between the two crossing that high. It’s a myth that subwoofers can’t be located. A true sub, that’s only playing up to 30hz yea, but not once you’re getting up into the frequency range that high. It will be boom-sizzle city that high up. ✌️
I bought one of these to go with my KEF LS50 Meta in a smallish room. At first I thought I made a mistake as it was too wimpy, but after moving it to a location in the room that reinforces the bass more, it matches the speakers really well. It fills in that mid-bass that’s missing in action from speakers of that type, and the result is very musical. It turns the system from being a bit polite to one that play rock or electronic music pretty convincingly, at least if you don’t listen insanely loud.
I felt this product was really hard to talk about and set realistic expectations for but you did a great job!! I call it a supplimental woofer so I think we're on the same page :).
I experienced a T/5x recently. The fit and finish is actually top notch. However its performance was beyond puzzling. Even when properly placed according to REL's procedures, the amount of additional gain that was required from my AVR was completely unacceptable. No it won't have the same SPL's as a ported 12 but my god it was almost non existent without cranking my internal gain up nearly all the way. My towers were almost drowning out the T/5x's output. For $700? Ridiculous. I'm not looking for a floor ornament. Returned and got an SVS SB-1000. Lesson learned.
@@nastang87xx Are you sure you understand how to set these up? You are not meant to hear anything coming from them, decent subwoofers should just be picking up the bottom frequency's. You want to dial it back the moment you can tell that the base is coming from the box.
I have the T/Zero ($450 at time of purchase) in a home office with bookshelf speakers (sound better with ports plugged) with a solid state amp and don’t listen above moderate volume levels ad T/Zero does augment the modest system well. Even for an apartment size home theater based on experience I would Mae a slight jump to a T/5x or RSL or SVS
Dude, please never change your methodology. I don't feel any other "reviewer" shoots as straight as you do. Maybe do a video on how to integrate a sub? /,,/,
Great review. The REL does some stuff well like compression. Of course there are better performing subs for under $500 but they are all much larger. It's just important to take the data and set realistic expectations to know if it's good for you or not.
@@howard5992 if we're talking performance, then a Sundown Audio U6.5 sub in a well designed ported box would deliver more SPL than the REL sub. Of course the footprint is gonna be a bit larger due to it being ported, but the sub is a 6.5" so its still gonna be quite small
A lot of information without any bullshit. Informative and concise. Yeah, man, you're starting to outshine your competitors and even more so with the amount of knowledge you've got. What one puts in one gets out. Bravo 🎉
I guess what I was asking in my previous post was whether there is a measurement that indicates how tight, fast or reponsive a subwoofer is? I don't think that a frequency response chart will indicate this. Perhaps it's just a Q measurement, I really don't know. Thanks Erin for any clarification on this.
I can see a nice case for one/a pair of these with a nearfield desk setup. Barely takes up any space, good linearity, plenty of output when it's right at your feet.
For those who are interested, the bottom of the speaker stands of Wharferdale Linton fit the Tzero MkIII subwoofer, I have one for each speaker and a super tweeter for each. They also have the internal cables modified with the Chord Company X. They are wonderful.
It's a great working sub for music in rooms with room nodes at 37-35 Hz (most appartments) and 5 ½ inch stand mounts. It will perform a tight bass in balance with your speakers. My two cents.
Agreed. I have 2 of them in my 12x12x8 ft room. And they’re amazing little guys. Plus the piano black finish is beautiful too. Not that anyone would likely ever notice them. But I do. ✌️
This would be perfect for those who cannot have room shaking bass, but want musicality added to very small bookshelves. The perfect match would be LS3/5A for example. Ultra musical sealed legends that do not do well below 70hz. This REL would fill in those lower registers perfectly while also retaining that smooth, musical curve, and not annoy neighbors/family members.
This was really interesting. I have the mk1 tzero and have been happy with it for years. It was the only half decent sub that would fit in a very particular space. It does lack a lower response, but it adds extra depth in the areas I wanted. As long as people are aware of its limitations, it is hard to get something better anywhere near the price. Great vid!
I have a question about an unrelated topic. I just bought the Rel T9x after auditioning the SVS 3000 micro, SVS SB 2000 pro, and Rel HT 1205 mk II at home. I thought all were good. The Rel T9x is the best with not making its presence known at all until bass is present but it doesn’t hit as hard for movies and doesn’t go to 20 hz. The 1205 was second place for integration but was very very slightly muddier with details than the T9x. The SVS subs sounded great for music but I felt like it made the midrange slightly boomier especially with male voice. I got the Rel because I want something that will not be a compromise for music at all and will be a match for more expensive speakers if I upgrade. I just bought the marantz cinema 50. If I use dsp/paramedic EQ can I fix the issues with the less expensive subs? If you EQ 2 subs to graph the same, will they sound the same? I hate wasting money. My room is 5000 cubic feet and use the system for 50/50 music and movies. I live in a town house and don’t need to hit reference levels of bass. I also prefer small to medium size subwoofers for aesthetics.
Thanks for the data! That's super helpful beyond some reviewers spewing "it's great!" which tells me very little. I have tinnitus and have to listen low and thought having a sub would be a way to emphasize fuller sound at lower volume without adding high frequencies. The REL makes sense at the price point and I like seeing that curve at low volumes. I "sub'ed" to your channel because I think your data based presentation helps understand what we're hearing.
Another great and insightful review Erin. The REL is famous for being tight and fast, but you didn't mention anything about this area of performance. I have an old Polk PSW108. Never use it. It's a plodding boom box. However, I've recently picked up a pair of KEF LS50 METAs and Magnepan LRS+, and this little REL sub might be the best option at a low price. Would you say that the subs in this review all pass the tight, fast, iron grip output required to match fast speakers, especially the LRS+ which is rather light in the midbass area? Can all these subs start and stop on a dime?.
A subwoofer that actually plays below 30hz will always sound "slower" because thats how the ear works. More rumble and low bass sounds less light and snappy but in reality the RELs are actually lying too you by just boosting the midbass over the actual subass. This is often why people say electrostatic headphones sound fast. Its because pretty much all of them roll off significantly under 50hz. You should really get an SB2000Pro if you want a tight and accurate sub.
Thanks for your input, but the SVS SB2000Pro is 2.5x the cost of the little REL, so not a fair comparison, and out of my $600 Cdn price range. I've noticed that even my boombox Polk PSW108 sub manages to add some ambience and space, but sounds like a drunk slurring its words, hence my need for speed and iron grip. Actually, I'd be happy for a boost in the midbass with the Magnepan LRS+ if it helps add some fullness or body, though the little REL may not add anything to my KEF LS50 METAs. I agree that the little REL doesn't look like the best bang-for-buck, but reviewers have recommended it as a good match for the LRS+. Thx.@@Jordonater
@@geevee1045 Get 2 (dual) place behind, inline and offset with the midbass ribbon side. I found the spatial cues more defined away from the tweeter ribbon IME.
@@geevee1045 Maybe consider an SB-1000 then? These are on sale quite often, are very compact, and will outperform this REL very easily. LS50 Metas are great speakers that deserve a decent subwoofer. Their -6 dB point seems to be around 50 Hz, so this REL will only add 13 Hz to that, with a 37 Hz -6dB point. The SB-1000 will actually go down low in small to medium sized rooms.
It's all in the mix. It's very good but expensive. It's quality lies in enhancing your spekerd in a way other subs would perhaps be louder but muddy the sound. BKAcoustics have a nice one too via the Gem 150
Hi again Erin, how are you? i change my setup Scm 11 to 7 with Rel T/Zero mkIII. Your measurement truly right. İ have no any dsp equitment in my system. Only has Crown xls 1002 Drive core 2 D/class amp. My measurement really nice with Rel. My close friend helped me for positioning and phase response. we have really nice harman curve in my 12m2 small room. 40hz +- 1.5-3 dB. almost flat :) no any boomy or some low-end. Thanks again your knowledge and sharing. Maybe i will buy more powerfull and dynamic upper model REL. İ wonder more REL sub measurement and ATC ofc! :) have a nice day mate thanks a lot..
I saw it recommended in REL speaker matching tool for my speakers which are Elac carina bs243.4 selecting a medium space (wooden floor and carpets) which is open but still falls under the 400sq feet teritorry. But seeing it to be so small I wonder if it would be enough to pressurize the space. I will use it only for music. Should I go for this or t5x?
Almost bought a pair but I knew I would want more bass so went complete opposite and bought the ht1205 since I saw one at a price I couldn't say no to. If it wasn't for this I would have bought a t5x
I found your Sonus faber Lumina 2 review very helpful. Could adding a REL sub to the Lumina speakers make up for their bass deficiency in small to medium rooms, considering an SPL of 85 - 90dBs and a 60-watt amp like the Wiim amp? I don't need bass below 30 Hz. Thanks for the insightful reviews; they're very useful.
ok the beginning of the discussion, where you were referring to the frequencies this unit is good at "boosting"...I have no idea what they sound like so I found a tone player and starting trying different frequencies to find some kind of reference. I started with 30 hz. My cat was instantly at attention, started pacing back and forth, staring at the nearest speaker, very unhappy. I could hear it but the effect was more a "feeling" than a normal sound, and it quickly made me feel discombobulated - my ears and skull (? seriously felt like it) started to buzz, even though the tone was just barely audible, and I started to feel a bit dizzy - absolutely weird and unpleasant. Then up to 40 hz...this is definitely in clear hearing range on my current speakers and the cat was even more agitated. My head stopped buzzing but I felt fully nauseous after about 30 seconds of this tone. By the time I hit 50 hz it started to sound fairly normal, the cat calmed down, and I stopped feeling disoriented. All fine after that. But WTF. I didn't increase the speaker volume or do anything crazy, but net takeaway from this very brief experiment is that I think that "accentuating" these much lower frequencies might not be so good for my health :D In my older age, I do have some problems with tinnitus and vertigo from time to time, so I think I may have special needs here. Regardless, this was damned disturbing. THANK YOU for inspiring this test, however indirectly! I may trial this unit precisely because it's not great at actually going low, as I think my small system in my small room might sound a bit more lush with the addition, but the idea that I need to "hold out" for something that goes down to 25 or even 30 hz or so is clearly madness. Nope. I am convinced that is not something I need or even want. Mind blown.
Would it be possible to do a review on the sonance ms10 subwoofer that is sold at Best Buy? I believe for its sale price ($350-$450) it truly is a hidden gem. Thank you, we appreciate your hard work.
Erin thanks for this review. I can tell you attach and decay or group delay in 2ch audio setups really makes a difference that may or may not be testable but heard. Rel's seem to be more sensitive to tonality in the 40-100hz. They also blend better with woofers since they are "quick" enough and don't drag the sound signature down. I've tried other subs and the Rel is the only brand that I tried that seems to work for my 2ch listening needs using a 10in sub. Not a myth as Home theater people think.
The route to fast bass is physics. A pro 21" from Eminence, as much high current/high power amplification possible. Or John Meyer's 900LFC, 18", 3kw, two amp channels feeding two voice coils. He also has a quad-voice coil active 21" w/driver cooling. Bass speed is how much current can pulse into the load, inductance impedes the current rise time. Next, affect as much air movement possible, ie., big cone, as efficiently as possible, ie., lightweight, rigid paper cone. Crushingly fast bass. The REL is fine. It's a well executed, modest, small sealed mbm.
When I first saw the measurement I thought of a title for this sub: "Tiny, not only in size" Doesn't really seem worthwhile for most people but maybe there's a niche.
Have you done any reviews on larger RELs? Proper subwoofers that is? Like the higher up TiX series? That would be interesting to see if they perform well.
Would be interesting to get your take on Martin Logan subwoofers, especially the ones with room correction…and out of this world to see you review their Balanced Force subs. Great work as usual and thank you.
REL does marketing well, but it's pretty clear here that the sub is well-designed for the driver and size. Whether you'd want to invest 500 dollars in a "not-sub" gotta be a matter of preference
Thanks Erin for your review and insight and to your patreon for sending this in. I’m considering one for my small office 7ft x 6ft. I think anything bigger would be overkill, and also take up too much space.
Great review. I like your approach to how objective measurements relate to subjective opinion. BTW I am contemplating this one and the Kali audio 6-inch subwoofer. Maybe you can provide info on the RELs vs the Kali. I listened mostly to 2 channel setups with my Magnepan LRS+. Great review keep up the Good work.
I have no connection to REL but it does appear to be better engineered than the SVS or KEF. Better to compare on price ($800, $1500) rather than size? P.S. I recently redeployed my Boston Acoustics CR400 subwoofer (that got great reviews in a Stereophile shootout in the early 90s) from my home theater to my Hi-Fi. I'm enjoying the fill-in provided to my bookshelf speakers & the subwoofer cone hardly moves!
Its crazy how well this matches the curve from my logitech 6" sub. But the logitech wont go as loud. Still, its a stupid cheap sub from a desktop 2.1 kit
Hi Erin! :) you are great person and reviwer. Thanks for all shares and project. Can measure some ATC speaker if posible? İ was used scm7 and using 11 v2 now. İ am really wondering. Maybe you can :) thanks for all
Nice one. Would love to see this compared to the Q Acoustics Q B12 - that seems the most promising offering sharing the £400 price point in the UK, and it would show what a larger size can deliver for that money.
@@lennart637 I did actually, but I wasn't able to find any real data on them. They seem to be highly regarded though, so would be good to see them measured too.
All "subwoofers" with less than 8" including 8", regardless the 100 watts or 10k watts, can only perform mid bass duty. Even most 10" subwoofer are also mid bass woofer. Properly designed 12" or larger subwoofer can perform as subwoofer.
In terms of volume, the REL tx5 model could replace the REL T/Zero MKIII because the subwoofer diameter is 200cm like the svs 3000 micro subwoofer. The price of 2 mono Tx5s sub woofer is the same than one dual KEF c62 subwoofer ! in general , many reviewers that do CEA sub tests come from USA and most of the time the cea test are done with USA(Canada) brand ( velodyne ,daytone audio,HSU Research, Martin Logan, Monoprice, Outlaw audio, PSA, Ryhtmik, RSL,SVS, Velodyne accoustic ). Tx5 volume = 2x volume of C62 . Find no CEA test for JLAudio d110 and REL tx series ( 5 7 9 ) that many love the SQ for music !! better ( bigger cabinet speaker) subwoofer move the curve to the left and so at same frequency have more SPL ( usefull in appartment ?) .. and less distorsion . For the same size price /volume we have also Velodyn MicroVee mkII , Cambridge minx 301 , B & W ASW608 , Q Acoustics 3060S , Dynaudio 9S, JLaudio D108, Velodyn MiniVeeX .
I have always wondered why REL always comes up frequently in audiophile sub discussion. It has always seemed to me to be a boutique brand that does some things well, but really isn't quite on par with some more performance oriented brands like Rythmik (that are much less marketed it appears). I would love to see head-to-head by driver size between the two brands for the larger subs (we need good sub reviews!!)😁
Because they integrate amazingly well. They work with any amp. They keep the sound of your speakers. But go lower. They’re fast, tight, and musical. Don’t disturb the neighbors. I have two in me 12x12x8 ft room. And I own about 20 pairs of speakers. And I barely ever touch them. With any of my speakers, and amps. They just work. And go flat to just under 30hz. And I’ve had them playing right along as high as 95db with no change in sound at all. There are not for everybody at all. They are specifically designed for people and situations like my own. Small rooms, people that hate boomy bass, who don’t listen to rap, etc. To compare them directly with a Rythmik is basically completely missing the point of what they are designed for. Not everyone wants large subs that can vibrate the walls. I live in a condo. And with other people. If I lived in a house by myself out in the sticks. I would have multiple large subs in my room. But these are by far and away the best choice for my situation. And Rythmik would be in my top 3 short list when choosing new ones. So nothing against them at all. ✌️
@@amb3cogoh god, complete nonsense. Of course a sub that can barely activate room modes will "integrate well" (something tells me you don't use room correction lol) They sell well because they're extremely well marketed. Absolutely nothing more
You answered your own question - because they're audiophiles. You would be lucky if you could find enough audiophiles with actual knowledge of audio to count on a single hand
@@Gamez4eveR I use a MiniDSP SHD Studio w/ Umik-1 USB mic. And please stop believing people like Amir, and his crew. And try some stuff for yourself. Because you obviously haven’t. Or you wouldn’t have say such things. I used to believe such nonsense myself. Until I really started buying and trying stuff. And if I had a dollar for every person on the internet who parrots out nonsense like you just did. I would be filthy rich. Go get some real experience. And then feel free to come back and converse with people about this hobby. 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
If you can handle a larger sub, Emotiva seems to have significantly lowered the price of their subs, as if they are going to stop making them or maybe just about to announce all new models. Some of them are discounted 40% and were already fairly cheap due to their direct to consumer Internet sales model. I personally own an SVS sub (which I am happy with) and I have no direct experience with Emotiva, but just noticed this recently.
@@BL-yj2wp I just looked at the specs of the SVS SB-2000 Pro (sealed box) and it is flat to 30 Hz and down about 3 dB at 25 Hz. If you mean total output, yes I am sure that the Monolith 16 can produce high SPL levels, but not everyone needs that, depending on room size. The SVS PB-2000 Pro (ported box) is flat down to 20 Hz. Both SVS 2000 models have extensive DSP equalization capabilities that can be controlled remotely with a smartphone app. I don't own either of these two products, and specs are from their website
Too many comments along the lines of "For the same $ you can get such-and-such" while completely ignoring that this sub's primary feature is its size. To compare this to a 12" sub is pointless. Along the lines of small subwoofers, I would like to see some measurements on the B&W ASW608. It's also quite small, not quite as small as the competitors but only by an inch or two in each dimension. Only $600.
I live in a condo. small room (16.5'x 15') I have Sonus Faber Lumia 2 and they are rated down to 55hz (no mention of +/- dB) I thought about getting this because I just want a 'little' more on the lower end without beating on the neighbors wall with a big 12" sub. When I get "loud", I'm at 85dB at the most. I do a LOT of low level listening and have my tv running thru my 2 channel system. This or the 10" rsl speed woofer ? music. not movies.
Personally, I would choose an 8-inch driving subwoofer (Rel TX) and not because I have a stereo pair of rel t5i subs either, but because of the size of the room. I've been living with a stereo pair of rel 8 inch t5i's subs for a couple of years now, and as well as complimenting my Sonus Faber Sonetto's perfectly, they actually compliment the size of my living room even more (13×11.5ft) It is better to have a little more and not need, then have less and need more! And BTW, my listening volumes.. 70% 40 to 60 DB 20% 60 to 75 DB 10% 75 to 85 DB
@@Antibackgroundnoise the T/Zero has turned out to be the perfect sub. Love the sound. Perfect for the room size. Great for a condo and neighbors. I love my Tzero. I made the right choice for me.
I would go with something a bit larger. Even a small 10-incher goes a long way. I wish they'd leverage an app. I'm not entertaining any subs without an app.
It seems that you can buy 2 REL subwoofers for a similar price to a single SVS or even for a lower price than KEF and in this way improve the output by another 6 decibels and even get better room control. In my opinion it is better as long as you have the option of placing 2 subwoofers in the room. Thank you for sharing the measurements with us. This is my favorite part of testing audio equipment.
I like rels Finishing on cabinets etc but the performance imo on the lower end stuff is under whelming. Especially considering the competition such as svs and in he uk bkelec. If you havent heard if bkelec and your on tue market for a sub and based in the uk please do have a look. Thye are a direct to customer business and the value of there subs is phenomenal.
I'd love to hear a direct comparison to the Cambridge audio MINX X201. I'm leaning to that one. Double the Amp power. I'm interested in a small subwoofer to add a little bass to a pair of lsx 2 wireless speakers that I travel with. The Cambridge is the smallest well reviewed subwoofer I can find and seems to maybe be a better option than this one. The Cambridge seems a better comparison since it's the same price range and is actually smaller. Physical size is obviously a priority once you are looking at 6.5 inch subwoofers and the svs is huge by comparison to the Cambridge. The svs is actually dual 8 inch woofers. Not 6.5 like this one. Cambridge is 6.5. Neither will give you big bass but it could certainly add some to lsx 2 wireless and bigger passive bookshelf speakers aren't good for travel do to amp/receiver requirements.
Oh nice. Second time owning something Erin's review. I agree that this is not the sub rumble, chest punching machine, but it works well on my desk setup with the Arendal 1961 Bookshelves as a speaker system for the computer.
It's not necessarily a good idea to have the same frequency response curve at different levels. Why not allow linearity down into the 20's at lower volumes? Imagine getting a 4 or 6-pack of these - as REL generally seems to recommend - at a relatively attainable total cost. Each individual sub would have to work at a lot lower output level and could therefore go much deeper.
does it ever seem like naked manipulation that REL subs are expensive-for-their-output, but then they're always pushing you to buy not two or three or even four of them but SIX i mean doesn't that make your brain go "!" like in Metal Gear
@@razisn A 6-pack of subs is not something that normal listening rooms need or would benefit from, at least for music. Unless you are in a small auditorium or something, one sub per side should do 99% of the time.
Aw, shucks, y'all, gather 'round, 'cause down here in the Heart of Dixie, we've been hearin' all sorts of chatter 'bout this here REL subwoofer that's got audiophiles happier than a tick on a fat hound. Now, this ain't just any ol' boombox. This piece of artistry is causin' more ruckus than a banjo at a hoedown, deliverin' lows so deep they'd resonate in your very soul, I do declare! Folks say when you pair this baby with your main speakers, it's like findin' the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle you been workin' on since Mardi Gras. It don't just add bass; it brings a richness to the music that's as satisfyin' as your mama's gravy on Thanksgiving. We're talkin' 'bout a balance so perfect, it's like walkin' a tightrope in the Alabama breeze. Now, these REL subs, they're subtler than the seasoning on a slow-cooked brisket, integratin' into your system smoother than bourbon. And mercy, the layers of sound they unveil! It's like peelin' an onion, 'cept each layer brings joy, not tears. You'll be hearin' notes you didn't even know were there, like findin' a forgotten twenty in your overalls. So, all y'all sound connoisseurs, listen here: that REL subwoofer is the real deal, sweeter than a pecan pie and more exhilaratin' than the Talladega race day. If your music's lackin' that special somethin', this here's your ticket to audio nirvana. Y'all better believe the hype; it's as genuine as an Alabama handshake.
REL acoustics yt channel just uploaded a video explaining how someone should not be using this model in a big room with 10k speakers systems, I guess to some kind of response to reviews showing the limited performance of this model
I don't understand the concern about SVS 3000 Micro frequency response in the higher bass region. Maybe with the factory default setting that shows up on your testing, but the 3000 Micro has such extension DSP frequency response correction available, and also adjustment of crossover slope (6 db, 12 db, etc per octave) that I can't imagine how anyone can complain about the 3000 frequency response in the upper bass region. Not to mention that ALL the adjustments can be made via a remote app from the listening position. Also I only use my system for music, and almost always at the same volume level, so I am not concerned about how well a subwoofer works at low volume. If I did turn down the volume for some reason, it would be to not disturb others or temporarily interrupt my music listening to do something else, and in that case I would not be concerned about how well the sub-woofer was working at lower volume.
I'm surprised at how good the rel.compares. It looks just from measurements it would integrate far better with speakers especially without using electronics which is what Rel fans say. Basically within the range it is designed for it's fantastic.
It's so little output it seems pointless. In a tiny room you'd be better off with bigger bookshelf speakers that can dig a bit lower. I think the only person buying this wants ot for their office and has a bigger REL elsewhere at home the want to match.
As I stated on the Patreon, it's pretty hilarious to compare the CEA numbers and frequency response to the Kali WS-6.2 you just measured, which is the same price, with a footprint that's really not that much bigger. The Kali is 14.5 x 12 x 11 (HxWxD), the REL is 9.5 x 8.5 x 10.5 in...so the REL is only 3" narrower and 5" shorter in height. Also, just my opinion, but the REL looks cheap. I get that the REL might be better size-wise for an office desktop type of system -- I think it's expensive for that, and that's really the only use case IMO.
The REL gives a more even sub sound. No peaks and lows only low octave support. Lifting that low to great music. Not Umpf or duffduff as much as the others that are unstable. This REL would be my choice.
I realize this isn't the right review for this comment, but Tom V is already in damage control mode, so he must have an idea how his speaker review is going to go.
That’s weird. To be sure I’m on the same page: He doesn’t even know what I think of what I heard and how I relate it to the data and he’s saying negative things about my review that hasn’t been released to the public? That’s super weird.
This sub is not targeted nor marketed to the same market as the KEF or the SVS. This is a little sub designed to be used for music listening in the smallest of rooms or, better, under the desk in a desktop near field environment. Nor is it targeted to HT users. If you want to review a a 'real' REL you have to start with the T5x. Btw with a good pair of price appropriate small standmounts you can and should cross this lower than 80Hz. On another note, you slagged me off when in a comment in another of your videos I mentioned there are subs better for music and subs better for reproducing HT 'sounds' (when comparing similar or close to similar price ranges and/or sizes) but it seems to me you are starting to realize that this is the case. I don't expect you to admit this here but it is obvious reading between your words in this video.
It’s a very strange “subwoofer”. With REL, the customer is paying for the finish, but also the brand recognition. Maybe this sub works ok on a very small room, where space is limited and room gain is higher. But if we’re following the same logic of a small room, the other two subs will also need to play louder before they start compressing and changing the response, while providing a lot more deep bass in most listening levels. A sealed design with one 6.5” driver is hardly a good recipe for any subwoofer. Most of my loudspeakers have more low end output than this REL, but they have (at least) two woofers per side on a ported enclosure. I’m confident that are usage scenarios for this sub, and the premium finish has to be paid for. But that’s not what I call a subwoofer. On that price range, I expect to reach (at least) a little below 30 Hz (and for a lot less, if I put performance above looks).
REL is severely overpriced and underperforming, who would have guessed Apartment dweller here with two monolith 12 thx. If you want proper extension small subs will never cut it.
Dude, settle down. I do. I always do. You’d know if you watched and listened instead of jumping to conclusions. I have an entire video about what I listen for here: Songs I Use to Demo Speakers and What I Listen For ruclips.net/video/54E36HCDZLk/видео.html Take a breather. It’ll be okay.
Rel is the biggest scam in audio especially subwoofer industry. Rythmik/monoprice/rsl are the best of the best & value for money Infact more than value for money especially in rsl case you can't even diy a better sub for the money. In diy market css 12" kit is best. Unless you are baller enough to build all on your own. Which will decimate even the yg acoustics subs.
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Can you do a video on the effects of adding a second subwoofer? Maybe contrasting effects of two cheaper subwoofers vs a similar priced better single subwoofer?
I have been using the TZero mkiii for over a year now. My use case is a small office / desktop system with neighbors around me, so I had to be very careful about choosing the right piece in order to enhance my musical enjoyment without angering folks. This woofer does that beautifully. Erin, I agree with your assessment here. My overall impressions:
REL has this unique cable (High Level Neutrik Speakon) that connects it to the system using the high-level input. When you read why they recommend connecting it that way it makes total sense. Problem is the cable is 25 feet long, 10 feet longer than I need. Not an issue, I can cut to length. But the cable looks a bit cheesy, if I am being honest. I know it’s only to get signal, but it just doesn’t look like a good cable. I may try it at some point, but for ease of deployment I got a nice, quality RCA sub cable and connect from the amp’s sub out to the low-level input on the sub. After doing some reading I have discovered both inputs use the same filters, and you only give up about 5-6% performance. Now a little bit about the sub itself.
First, let me say that this is a beautiful piece. Build quality is excellent. It’s pretty substantial (weighs about 16 pounds), is very well braced and has a beautifully done gloss Black finish that really makes it an eye grabber. The connectivity suite in the back is impressive, offering lots of options and precise controls. Everything about it just screams quality. And then I powered it on…
Frankly I am very surprised by what it’s doing. For what it is, It’s surpassing all my expectations. It’s bringing that bass extension, that low-low end information in a way that is blowing my mind. There are no holes in the low-end frequency response now, and there is a new-found richness and power to the music with no sloppiness, undue rumble or lag. I know now what John Hunter was saying about making the sub disappear. You can do that with this one. The net result is a very-much enhanced listening experience as a whole. I feel like this woofer delivers great value for the performance it delivers.
Your data and observations square with my experience. I use a pair with small sealed bookshelf speakers rated at 70db. Great solution for apartment dwellers with neighbors.
What're you talking about, my neighbors loved my pair of velodyne 15" subs in my apartment, they tapped on the roof every time I played it as if to applaud!
“Rated at 70db”? Care to explain further?
Typically when a small speaker has a sensitivity rating of 70db that means they require more power to play, especially down low, so adding a small sub that can handle crossing over at more like 180hz such as this small rel then allows the 70db speakers motor to free up more energy for producing the higher frequencies, effectively raising their sensitivity.
@@WarriorProphet I get what a sensitivity rating is. I’ve just never seen any speakers that are so low. And it makes me think he was referring to something else. But he did say sealed. Still most are 85db, or higher nowadays. And I’m having trouble remembering ever seeing any speakers go below 80db actually. And from my experience with speakers (I have over 20 pairs myself ATM), I don’t think I would want a pair that is that low. Not a big fan of very low sensitivity (efficiency) speakers myself. Either way. Thanks for the reply. ✌️
@@WarriorProphet BTW I seriously doubt these will work up to 180hz. And the measurements reflect that. I own a pair of these, and they’re great. But they’re not designed to cross over that high. 100hz sure, but not that high. Besides IME you would definitely hear the disconnect between the two crossing that high. It’s a myth that subwoofers can’t be located. A true sub, that’s only playing up to 30hz yea, but not once you’re getting up into the frequency range that high. It will be boom-sizzle city that high up. ✌️
I bought one of these to go with my KEF LS50 Meta in a smallish room. At first I thought I made a mistake as it was too wimpy, but after moving it to a location in the room that reinforces the bass more, it matches the speakers really well. It fills in that mid-bass that’s missing in action from speakers of that type, and the result is very musical. It turns the system from being a bit polite to one that play rock or electronic music pretty convincingly, at least if you don’t listen insanely loud.
I felt this product was really hard to talk about and set realistic expectations for but you did a great job!! I call it a supplimental woofer so I think we're on the same page :).
Thank you, sir. Glad to see you still doing your thing, too, btw!
Honestly, it seems like a $250 sub with $250 finishing.
Not for me, but if I had a small room and the "high end" look was important to me, maybe.
I experienced a T/5x recently. The fit and finish is actually top notch. However its performance was beyond puzzling. Even when properly placed according to REL's procedures, the amount of additional gain that was required from my AVR was completely unacceptable. No it won't have the same SPL's as a ported 12 but my god it was almost non existent without cranking my internal gain up nearly all the way. My towers were almost drowning out the T/5x's output. For $700? Ridiculous. I'm not looking for a floor ornament. Returned and got an SVS SB-1000. Lesson learned.
@@nastang87xx Are you sure you understand how to set these up? You are not meant to hear anything coming from them, decent subwoofers should just be picking up the bottom frequency's. You want to dial it back the moment you can tell that the base is coming from the box.
I have the T/Zero ($450 at time of purchase) in a home office with bookshelf speakers (sound better with ports plugged) with a solid state amp and don’t listen above moderate volume levels ad T/Zero does augment the modest system well. Even for an apartment size home theater based on experience I would Mae a slight jump to a T/5x or RSL or SVS
Dude, please never change your methodology. I don't feel any other "reviewer" shoots as straight as you do. Maybe do a video on how to integrate a sub? /,,/,
Thank you for the support and kind words!
Great review. The REL does some stuff well like compression. Of course there are better performing subs for under $500 but they are all much larger. It's just important to take the data and set realistic expectations to know if it's good for you or not.
500$ gets much more than this even in the same box size.
@@Luke-qs2cg - any examples of small subs that are superior ? Erin compared it to two subs that are both MORE expensive
@@howard5992 if we're talking performance, then a Sundown Audio U6.5 sub in a well designed ported box would deliver more SPL than the REL sub. Of course the footprint is gonna be a bit larger due to it being ported, but the sub is a 6.5" so its still gonna be quite small
Great video! Would love to see you review the T/5x or T/7x. Apprechiate your work! 💪🏻
A lot of information without any bullshit. Informative and concise. Yeah, man, you're starting to outshine your competitors and even more so with the amount of knowledge you've got.
What one puts in one gets out. Bravo 🎉
Great review. We need more objective data on REL subs. Objective reviews for this brand is few and far between.
I guess what I was asking in my previous post was whether there is a measurement that indicates how tight, fast or reponsive a subwoofer is? I don't think that a frequency response chart will indicate this. Perhaps it's just a Q measurement, I really don't know. Thanks Erin for any clarification on this.
I can see a nice case for one/a pair of these with a nearfield desk setup. Barely takes up any space, good linearity, plenty of output when it's right at your feet.
For those who are interested, the bottom of the speaker stands of Wharferdale Linton fit the Tzero MkIII subwoofer, I have one for each speaker and a super tweeter for each. They also have the internal cables modified with the Chord Company X. They are wonderful.
Interesting..👍
Would love to see distortion data.
It's a great working sub for music in rooms with room nodes at 37-35 Hz (most appartments) and 5 ½ inch stand mounts. It will perform a tight bass in balance with your speakers. My two cents.
Agreed. I have 2 of them in my 12x12x8 ft room. And they’re amazing little guys. Plus the piano black finish is beautiful too. Not that anyone would likely ever notice them. But I do. ✌️
This would be perfect for those who cannot have room shaking bass, but want musicality added to very small bookshelves. The perfect match would be LS3/5A for example. Ultra musical sealed legends that do not do well below 70hz. This REL would fill in those lower registers perfectly while also retaining that smooth, musical curve, and not annoy neighbors/family members.
SVS 3000 Micro is now $899 in gloss black or gloss white. I have one and am quite happy with it. It was mentioned as $800 in the video.
As I noted in a post above, the sub is now included in a Black Friday sale, so back to $800 for now.
Great review and easy to understand new concepts. Happy to have joined your community.
This was really interesting. I have the mk1 tzero and have been happy with it for years. It was the only half decent sub that would fit in a very particular space.
It does lack a lower response, but it adds extra depth in the areas I wanted. As long as people are aware of its limitations, it is hard to get something better anywhere near the price.
Great vid!
I have a question about an unrelated topic. I just bought the Rel T9x after auditioning the SVS 3000 micro, SVS SB 2000 pro, and Rel HT 1205 mk II at home. I thought all were good. The Rel T9x is the best with not making its presence known at all until bass is present but it doesn’t hit as hard for movies and doesn’t go to 20 hz. The 1205 was second place for integration but was very very slightly muddier with details than the T9x. The SVS subs sounded great for music but I felt like it made the midrange slightly boomier especially with male voice. I got the Rel because I want something that will not be a compromise for music at all and will be a match for more expensive speakers if I upgrade. I just bought the marantz cinema 50. If I use dsp/paramedic EQ can I fix the issues with the less expensive subs? If you EQ 2 subs to graph the same, will they sound the same? I hate wasting money. My room is 5000 cubic feet and use the system for 50/50 music and movies. I live in a town house and don’t need to hit reference levels of bass. I also prefer small to medium size subwoofers for aesthetics.
I bought one, and only for music it goes very low! Just a beautiful bass sound from a small box! If you doubt, just do it👌🏼
Thanks for the data! That's super helpful beyond some reviewers spewing "it's great!" which tells me very little. I have tinnitus and have to listen low and thought having a sub would be a way to emphasize fuller sound at lower volume without adding high frequencies. The REL makes sense at the price point and I like seeing that curve at low volumes. I "sub'ed" to your channel because I think your data based presentation helps understand what we're hearing.
Another great and insightful review Erin. The REL is famous for being tight and fast, but you didn't mention anything about this area of performance.
I have an old Polk PSW108. Never use it. It's a plodding boom box. However, I've recently picked up a pair of KEF LS50 METAs and Magnepan LRS+, and this little REL sub might be the best option at a low price.
Would you say that the subs in this review all pass the tight, fast, iron grip output required to match fast speakers, especially the LRS+ which is rather light in the midbass area? Can all these subs start and stop on a dime?.
A subwoofer that actually plays below 30hz will always sound "slower" because thats how the ear works. More rumble and low bass sounds less light and snappy but in reality the RELs are actually lying too you by just boosting the midbass over the actual subass. This is often why people say electrostatic headphones sound fast. Its because pretty much all of them roll off significantly under 50hz. You should really get an SB2000Pro if you want a tight and accurate sub.
Thanks for your input, but the SVS SB2000Pro is 2.5x the cost of the little REL, so not a fair comparison, and out of my $600 Cdn price range.
I've noticed that even my boombox Polk PSW108 sub manages to add some ambience and space, but sounds like a drunk slurring its words, hence my need for speed and iron grip.
Actually, I'd be happy for a boost in the midbass with the Magnepan LRS+ if it helps add some fullness or body, though the little REL may not add anything to my KEF LS50 METAs. I agree that the little REL doesn't look like the best bang-for-buck, but reviewers have recommended it as a good match for the LRS+. Thx.@@Jordonater
@@geevee1045 Ah i see. I dont know much else to recommend at this price i live in the UK so pricing is quite different.
@@geevee1045 Get 2 (dual) place behind, inline and offset with the midbass ribbon side. I found the spatial cues more defined away from the tweeter ribbon IME.
@@geevee1045 Maybe consider an SB-1000 then? These are on sale quite often, are very compact, and will outperform this REL very easily. LS50 Metas are great speakers that deserve a decent subwoofer. Their -6 dB point seems to be around 50 Hz, so this REL will only add 13 Hz to that, with a 37 Hz -6dB point. The SB-1000 will actually go down low in small to medium sized rooms.
It's all in the mix.
It's very good but expensive.
It's quality lies in enhancing your spekerd in a way other subs would perhaps be louder but muddy the sound.
BKAcoustics have a nice one too via the Gem 150
I use this sub for my office sub. Does a great job for my work sub.
Lol at the 47hz F3. Most decent bookshelves can do that...
Sealed bookshelves?
Well it's a 6.5" woofer in a tiny sealed box, that's about par for the course. It's just that calling it a subwoofer is a stretch.
Hi again Erin, how are you? i change my setup Scm 11 to 7 with Rel T/Zero mkIII. Your measurement truly right. İ have no any dsp equitment in my system. Only has Crown xls 1002 Drive core 2 D/class amp. My measurement really nice with Rel. My close friend helped me for positioning and phase response. we have really nice harman curve in my 12m2 small room. 40hz +- 1.5-3 dB. almost flat :) no any boomy or some low-end. Thanks again your knowledge and sharing. Maybe i will buy more powerfull and dynamic upper model REL. İ wonder more REL sub measurement and ATC ofc! :) have a nice day mate thanks a lot..
Please do more REL review (t5x, t7x, t9x, s/510).
I saw it recommended in REL speaker matching tool for my speakers which are Elac carina bs243.4 selecting a medium space (wooden floor and carpets) which is open but still falls under the 400sq feet teritorry. But seeing it to be so small I wonder if it would be enough to pressurize the space. I will use it only for music. Should I go for this or t5x?
Almost bought a pair but I knew I would want more bass so went complete opposite and bought the ht1205 since I saw one at a price I couldn't say no to. If it wasn't for this I would have bought a t5x
I found your Sonus faber Lumina 2 review very helpful. Could adding a REL sub to the Lumina speakers make up for their bass deficiency in small to medium rooms, considering an SPL of 85 - 90dBs and a 60-watt amp like the Wiim amp? I don't need bass below 30 Hz. Thanks for the insightful reviews; they're very useful.
ok the beginning of the discussion, where you were referring to the frequencies this unit is good at "boosting"...I have no idea what they sound like so I found a tone player and starting trying different frequencies to find some kind of reference.
I started with 30 hz. My cat was instantly at attention, started pacing back and forth, staring at the nearest speaker, very unhappy. I could hear it but the effect was more a "feeling" than a normal sound, and it quickly made me feel discombobulated - my ears and skull (? seriously felt like it) started to buzz, even though the tone was just barely audible, and I started to feel a bit dizzy - absolutely weird and unpleasant. Then up to 40 hz...this is definitely in clear hearing range on my current speakers and the cat was even more agitated. My head stopped buzzing but I felt fully nauseous after about 30 seconds of this tone. By the time I hit 50 hz it started to sound fairly normal, the cat calmed down, and I stopped feeling disoriented. All fine after that.
But WTF. I didn't increase the speaker volume or do anything crazy, but net takeaway from this very brief experiment is that I think that "accentuating" these much lower frequencies might not be so good for my health :D In my older age, I do have some problems with tinnitus and vertigo from time to time, so I think I may have special needs here. Regardless, this was damned disturbing.
THANK YOU for inspiring this test, however indirectly! I may trial this unit precisely because it's not great at actually going low, as I think my small system in my small room might sound a bit more lush with the addition, but the idea that I need to "hold out" for something that goes down to 25 or even 30 hz or so is clearly madness. Nope. I am convinced that is not something I need or even want.
Mind blown.
I have one paired to KEF LSX near field in a very small room under my desk and it’s great !
I know you discuss group delay in a lot of your videos, but do you have a specific video that covers it? Are there more resources in your Patreon?
Would it be possible to do a review on the sonance ms10 subwoofer that is sold at Best Buy? I believe for its sale price ($350-$450) it truly is a hidden gem. Thank you, we appreciate your hard work.
Erin thanks for this review. I can tell you attach and decay or group delay in 2ch audio setups really makes a difference that may or may not be testable but heard. Rel's seem to be more sensitive to tonality in the 40-100hz. They also blend better with woofers since they are "quick" enough and don't drag the sound signature down. I've tried other subs and the Rel is the only brand that I tried that seems to work for my 2ch listening needs using a 10in sub. Not a myth as Home theater people think.
if want quick bass, why not consider rythim sub. Their servo can do much quicker bass...
@@bryansu Yeah I heard good things about them too. Only a few that can do what these subs do.
The route to fast bass is physics.
A pro 21" from Eminence, as much high current/high power amplification possible.
Or John Meyer's 900LFC, 18", 3kw, two amp channels feeding two voice coils.
He also has a quad-voice coil active 21" w/driver cooling.
Bass speed is how much current can pulse into the load, inductance impedes the current rise time.
Next, affect as much air movement possible, ie., big cone, as efficiently as possible, ie., lightweight, rigid paper cone.
Crushingly fast bass.
The REL is fine. It's a well executed, modest, small sealed mbm.
When I first saw the measurement I thought of a title for this sub: "Tiny, not only in size"
Doesn't really seem worthwhile for most people but maybe there's a niche.
Have you done any reviews on larger RELs?
Proper subwoofers that is?
Like the higher up TiX series?
That would be interesting to see if they perform well.
I can’t get anyone to send me one. This was the first offer. REL contacted me over a year ago but then ghosted me and
love to see all the data. they EXPENSIVE. especially, they stack in 3 in a tower on their website
Nice review Erin. Did I miss the distortion measurements?
Mark
I didn’t include them. I just forgot to be honest.
Would be interesting to get your take on Martin Logan subwoofers, especially the ones with room correction…and out of this world to see you review their Balanced Force subs. Great work as usual and thank you.
How do you measure anechoic 10 Hz? The wavelength is about 34 meters. The picture of the room for your Klippel does not look so large.
I measure subwoofers outdoors. It’s actually a whole lot faster to do that since I only need on axis response.
Nice one Erin. Love these subwoofer reviews, particularly compact subs. Little or no objective reviews of subs on RUclips.
REL does marketing well, but it's pretty clear here that the sub is well-designed for the driver and size. Whether you'd want to invest 500 dollars in a "not-sub" gotta be a matter of preference
Find it interesting that both Rel and Perlisten emphasize the importance of group delay in a sub, n not only at the crossover point but wide band
Thanks Erin for your review and insight and to your patreon for sending this in. I’m considering one for my small office 7ft x 6ft. I think anything bigger would be overkill, and also take up too much space.
Get a t5x the t zero is disappointing - I have both
@@djkbrown How big is your room?
The KEF KC62 is definitely smaller, but of course it costs $1,500. But it should produce all the bass you want in a room that size.
Looking for a sub to pair with my Bower and Wilkins M1
Great review. I like your approach to how objective measurements relate to subjective opinion. BTW I am contemplating this one and the Kali audio 6-inch subwoofer. Maybe you can provide info on the RELs vs the Kali. I listened mostly to 2 channel setups with my Magnepan LRS+. Great review keep up the Good work.
I think I’d personally go with the KALI subwoofer. It’s a bit larger, though. So keep that in mind.
@@ErinsAudioCorner TY
@@alainbesario6679 Heard about these because Guttenberg of Audiophiliac matched them with his magnapans and he had a come to jesus moment.
I have no connection to REL but it does appear to be better engineered than the SVS or KEF. Better to compare on price ($800, $1500) rather than size? P.S. I recently redeployed my Boston Acoustics CR400 subwoofer (that got great reviews in a Stereophile shootout in the early 90s) from my home theater to my Hi-Fi. I'm enjoying the fill-in provided to my bookshelf speakers & the subwoofer cone hardly moves!
Its crazy how well this matches the curve from my logitech 6" sub. But the logitech wont go as loud. Still, its a stupid cheap sub from a desktop 2.1 kit
Hi Erin! :) you are great person and reviwer. Thanks for all shares and project. Can measure some ATC speaker if posible? İ was used scm7 and using 11 v2 now. İ am really wondering. Maybe you can :) thanks for all
I have tried. So far I have not been able to obtain any of their speakers to review.
Thanks mate :) have a nice night!
@@ErinsAudioCorner
Nice one. Would love to see this compared to the Q Acoustics Q B12 - that seems the most promising offering sharing the £400 price point in the UK, and it would show what a larger size can deliver for that money.
check out BKelec subwoofers
@@lennart637 I did actually, but I wasn't able to find any real data on them. They seem to be highly regarded though, so would be good to see them measured too.
JBL LSR310S would be nice to see. It's often found at £350 in UK.
All "subwoofers" with less than 8" including 8", regardless the 100 watts or 10k watts, can only perform mid bass duty. Even most 10" subwoofer are also mid bass woofer. Properly designed 12" or larger subwoofer can perform as subwoofer.
Why not include the Kali in the conversation? Larger size? It certainly seems to be the value king in the smallish form factor roundup.
Isn't the Kali about 4x larger?
@@RennieAsh Kali is 11x12x14, REL is 9x10x11 so slightly bigger but no where near 4x. I'd say they are in the same shopping class.
Oof. That’s a narrow window to fill for $500. Cheap 10” or used svs micro is the ticket IMO. Or used T/5x, if you like REL.
In terms of volume, the REL tx5 model could replace the REL T/Zero MKIII because the subwoofer diameter is 200cm like the svs 3000 micro subwoofer. The price of 2 mono Tx5s sub woofer is the same than one dual KEF c62 subwoofer ! in general , many reviewers that do CEA sub tests come from USA and most of the time the cea test are done with USA(Canada) brand ( velodyne ,daytone audio,HSU Research, Martin Logan, Monoprice, Outlaw audio, PSA, Ryhtmik, RSL,SVS, Velodyne accoustic ). Tx5 volume = 2x volume of C62 . Find no CEA test for JLAudio d110 and REL tx series ( 5 7 9 ) that many love the SQ for music !! better ( bigger cabinet speaker) subwoofer move the curve to the left and so at same frequency have more SPL ( usefull in appartment ?) .. and less distorsion . For the same size price /volume we have also Velodyn MicroVee mkII , Cambridge minx 301 , B & W ASW608 , Q Acoustics 3060S , Dynaudio 9S, JLaudio D108, Velodyn MiniVeeX .
I have always wondered why REL always comes up frequently in audiophile sub discussion. It has always seemed to me to be a boutique brand that does some things well, but really isn't quite on par with some more performance oriented brands like Rythmik (that are much less marketed it appears). I would love to see head-to-head by driver size between the two brands for the larger subs (we need good sub reviews!!)😁
Because they integrate amazingly well. They work with any amp. They keep the sound of your speakers. But go lower. They’re fast, tight, and musical. Don’t disturb the neighbors.
I have two in me 12x12x8 ft room. And I own about 20 pairs of speakers. And I barely ever touch them. With any of my speakers, and amps. They just work. And go flat to just under 30hz. And I’ve had them playing right along as high as 95db with no change in sound at all.
There are not for everybody at all. They are specifically designed for people and situations like my own. Small rooms, people that hate boomy bass, who don’t listen to rap, etc.
To compare them directly with a Rythmik is basically completely missing the point of what they are designed for. Not everyone wants large subs that can vibrate the walls.
I live in a condo. And with other people. If I lived in a house by myself out in the sticks. I would have multiple large subs in my room. But these are by far and away the best choice for my situation. And Rythmik would be in my top 3 short list when choosing new ones. So nothing against them at all. ✌️
@@amb3cog Yeah, I guess I was thinking 10" subs and up. These small ones are very different use cases as you mention 👍
@@amb3cogoh god, complete nonsense.
Of course a sub that can barely activate room modes will "integrate well" (something tells me you don't use room correction lol)
They sell well because they're extremely well marketed. Absolutely nothing more
You answered your own question - because they're audiophiles. You would be lucky if you could find enough audiophiles with actual knowledge of audio to count on a single hand
@@Gamez4eveR I use a MiniDSP SHD Studio w/ Umik-1 USB mic. And please stop believing people like Amir, and his crew. And try some stuff for yourself. Because you obviously haven’t. Or you wouldn’t have say such things. I used to believe such nonsense myself. Until I really started buying and trying stuff.
And if I had a dollar for every person on the internet who parrots out nonsense like you just did. I would be filthy rich. Go get some real experience. And then feel free to come back and converse with people about this hobby. 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
👏Group delay and crossover discussion👏Spot on.
Thank you! A comparison to a good bigger sub would be great, like SVS 2000 etc.
If you can handle a larger sub, Emotiva seems to have significantly lowered the price of their subs, as if they are going to stop making them or maybe just about to announce all new models. Some of them are discounted 40% and were already fairly cheap due to their direct to consumer Internet sales model. I personally own an SVS sub (which I am happy with) and I have no direct experience with Emotiva, but just noticed this recently.
Well, you'd need 445 of these subs (in phase) to reach the 25Hz output of one Monolith 16" THX Ultra.
Only 53 to hit the same SPL at 80H z though :)
@@BL-yj2wp I just looked at the specs of the SVS SB-2000 Pro (sealed box) and it is flat to 30 Hz and down about 3 dB at 25 Hz. If you mean total output, yes I am sure that the Monolith 16 can produce high SPL levels, but not everyone needs that, depending on room size. The SVS PB-2000 Pro (ported box) is flat down to 20 Hz. Both SVS 2000 models have extensive DSP equalization capabilities that can be controlled remotely with a smartphone app. I don't own either of these two products, and specs are from their website
Too many comments along the lines of "For the same $ you can get such-and-such" while completely ignoring that this sub's primary feature is its size. To compare this to a 12" sub is pointless.
Along the lines of small subwoofers, I would like to see some measurements on the B&W ASW608. It's also quite small, not quite as small as the competitors but only by an inch or two in each dimension. Only $600.
Well, I specifically noted that you can get more but it may cost more or it may be much larger.
@@ErinsAudioCorner - he's addressing the comment section, where many criticize the REL without context.
I live in a condo. small room (16.5'x 15') I have Sonus Faber Lumia 2 and they are rated down to 55hz (no mention of +/- dB) I thought about getting this because I just want a 'little' more on the lower end without beating on the neighbors wall with a big 12" sub. When I get "loud", I'm at 85dB at the most. I do a LOT of low level listening and have my tv running thru my 2 channel system. This or the 10" rsl speed woofer ? music. not movies.
Personally, I would choose an 8-inch driving subwoofer (Rel TX) and not because I have a stereo pair of rel t5i subs either, but because of the size of the room. I've been living with a stereo pair of rel 8 inch t5i's subs for a couple of years now, and as well as complimenting my Sonus Faber Sonetto's perfectly, they actually compliment the size of my living room even more (13×11.5ft)
It is better to have a little more and not need, then have less and need more! And BTW, my listening volumes..
70% 40 to 60 DB
20% 60 to 75 DB
10% 75 to 85 DB
@@Antibackgroundnoise the T/Zero has turned out to be the perfect sub. Love the sound. Perfect for the room size. Great for a condo and neighbors.
I love my Tzero. I made the right choice for me.
@@mbvx7 that's good, I'm happy it's worked out for you. Enjoy 🥳
I would go with something a bit larger. Even a small 10-incher goes a long way. I wish they'd leverage an app. I'm not entertaining any subs without an app.
It seems that you can buy 2 REL subwoofers for a similar price to a single SVS or even for a lower price than KEF and in this way improve the output by another 6 decibels and even get better room control. In my opinion it is better as long as you have the option of placing 2 subwoofers in the room. Thank you for sharing the measurements with us. This is my favorite part of testing audio equipment.
I like rels Finishing on cabinets etc but the performance imo on the lower end stuff is under whelming. Especially considering the competition such as svs and in he uk bkelec. If you havent heard if bkelec and your on tue market for a sub and based in the uk please do have a look. Thye are a direct to customer business and the value of there subs is phenomenal.
I'd love to hear a direct comparison to the Cambridge audio MINX X201. I'm leaning to that one. Double the Amp power. I'm interested in a small subwoofer to add a little bass to a pair of lsx 2 wireless speakers that I travel with. The Cambridge is the smallest well reviewed subwoofer I can find and seems to maybe be a better option than this one. The Cambridge seems a better comparison since it's the same price range and is actually smaller. Physical size is obviously a priority once you are looking at 6.5 inch subwoofers and the svs is huge by comparison to the Cambridge. The svs is actually dual 8 inch woofers. Not 6.5 like this one. Cambridge is 6.5. Neither will give you big bass but it could certainly add some to lsx 2 wireless and bigger passive bookshelf speakers aren't good for travel do to amp/receiver requirements.
Oh nice. Second time owning something Erin's review. I agree that this is not the sub rumble, chest punching machine, but it works well on my desk setup with the Arendal 1961 Bookshelves as a speaker system for the computer.
It's not necessarily a good idea to have the same frequency response curve at different levels. Why not allow linearity down into the 20's at lower volumes? Imagine getting a 4 or 6-pack of these - as REL generally seems to recommend - at a relatively attainable total cost. Each individual sub would have to work at a lot lower output level and could therefore go much deeper.
does it ever seem like naked manipulation that REL subs are expensive-for-their-output, but then they're always pushing you to buy not two or three or even four of them but SIX
i mean doesn't that make your brain go "!" like in Metal Gear
I don't think REL recommends getting a 4 pack of this model of sub. 2 of them in a stereo configuration would be the most you would want.
@@WeeWeeJumbo Yes, we have gone from "bass is not directional, one sub is enough" to "stereo" pairs to six-packs.
REL six-pack support starts at the S/510 level. What are you talking about?
@@razisn A 6-pack of subs is not something that normal listening rooms need or would benefit from, at least for music. Unless you are in a small auditorium or something, one sub per side should do 99% of the time.
Meglio 2 t0 o 1 t9x per 18mq uso audiofilo?
Aw, shucks, y'all, gather 'round, 'cause down here in the Heart of Dixie, we've been hearin' all sorts of chatter 'bout this here REL subwoofer that's got audiophiles happier than a tick on a fat hound. Now, this ain't just any ol' boombox. This piece of artistry is causin' more ruckus than a banjo at a hoedown, deliverin' lows so deep they'd resonate in your very soul, I do declare! Folks say when you pair this baby with your main speakers, it's like findin' the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle you been workin' on since Mardi Gras. It don't just add bass; it brings a richness to the music that's as satisfyin' as your mama's gravy on Thanksgiving. We're talkin' 'bout a balance so perfect, it's like walkin' a tightrope in the Alabama breeze. Now, these REL subs, they're subtler than the seasoning on a slow-cooked brisket, integratin' into your system smoother than bourbon. And mercy, the layers of sound they unveil! It's like peelin' an onion, 'cept each layer brings joy, not tears. You'll be hearin' notes you didn't even know were there, like findin' a forgotten twenty in your overalls. So, all y'all sound connoisseurs, listen here: that REL subwoofer is the real deal, sweeter than a pecan pie and more exhilaratin' than the Talladega race day. If your music's lackin' that special somethin', this here's your ticket to audio nirvana. Y'all better believe the hype; it's as genuine as an Alabama handshake.
Alright. You got the job. Good interview. 👍
@@ErinsAudioCornerThank you 😊
I'm almost crying...sheer poetry. You've made my evening
Before watching I predict it being a toy more than a subwoofer. Prove me wrong! ;-)
Not really a toy but yah definitely not a "subwoofer" more like a mid woofer. The good thing is the compression is almost non existent.
I mean…… that would be like someone saying before visiting it I predict the sun is going to be hot
This is like fisher price you stuff
I love me some subs. Thanks for the review. 🙃
To me a subwoofer starts at 12 inch and needs to hit 25 Hz, everything else is trying to do something it is not build for.
In that case, My Elac UniFi References bookshelves has two subwoofers that can produce just below below 40hz.
Cool t-shirt 😍, where can I get one?
Nice litte sub 👍😊
I got mine on vacation at Universal. But I’m sure you can find it online.
REL acoustics yt channel just uploaded a video explaining how someone should not be using this model in a big room with 10k speakers systems, I guess to some kind of response to reviews showing the limited performance of this model
Interesting sub. Has some good qualities to it that i can appreciate. I would have to pair them with a larger sub though that gets lower though 😀
I don't understand the concern about SVS 3000 Micro frequency response in the higher bass region. Maybe with the factory default setting that shows up on your testing, but the 3000 Micro has such extension DSP frequency response correction available, and also adjustment of crossover slope (6 db, 12 db, etc per octave) that I can't imagine how anyone can complain about the 3000 frequency response in the upper bass region. Not to mention that ALL the adjustments can be made via a remote app from the listening position. Also I only use my system for music, and almost always at the same volume level, so I am not concerned about how well a subwoofer works at low volume. If I did turn down the volume for some reason, it would be to not disturb others or temporarily interrupt my music listening to do something else, and in that case I would not be concerned about how well the sub-woofer was working at lower volume.
Monoprice thx 8".. all day.
That's not a subwoofer thats a woofer in to small box. Some bookshelves get lower
For $494 I can get an OSD trevoce 12" 1500w....
I have them, they are great
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
I'm surprised at how good the rel.compares. It looks just from measurements it would integrate far better with speakers especially without using electronics which is what Rel fans say. Basically within the range it is designed for it's fantastic.
This is a powered woofer. I wouldnt purchase at full retail, but possiblly on sale for $350.
For that kind of money you could get a BK Electronics 8 or 10" .
And really only for tiny speakers at close listening distances. The KC62 has more than double the output and much better extension.
@@BL-yj2wp Yeah, the KC62 is a good sub, but costs $1,500.
It's so little output it seems pointless. In a tiny room you'd be better off with bigger bookshelf speakers that can dig a bit lower. I think the only person buying this wants ot for their office and has a bigger REL elsewhere at home the want to match.
Or maybe they just want tiny speakers.
As I stated on the Patreon, it's pretty hilarious to compare the CEA numbers and frequency response to the Kali WS-6.2 you just measured, which is the same price, with a footprint that's really not that much bigger. The Kali is 14.5 x 12 x 11 (HxWxD), the REL is 9.5 x 8.5 x 10.5 in...so the REL is only 3" narrower and 5" shorter in height. Also, just my opinion, but the REL looks cheap.
I get that the REL might be better size-wise for an office desktop type of system -- I think it's expensive for that, and that's really the only use case IMO.
👍🌟👍
T5X more logical.
The REL gives a more even sub sound. No peaks and lows only low octave support. Lifting that low to great music. Not Umpf or duffduff as much as the others that are unstable. This REL would be my choice.
I realize this isn't the right review for this comment, but Tom V is already in damage control mode, so he must have an idea how his speaker review is going to go.
That’s weird.
To be sure I’m on the same page:
He doesn’t even know what I think of what I heard and how I relate it to the data and he’s saying negative things about my review that hasn’t been released to the public? That’s super weird.
@@ErinsAudioCornerso did the review ever come out?
This sub is not targeted nor marketed to the same market as the KEF or the SVS. This is a little sub designed to be used for music listening in the smallest of rooms or, better, under the desk in a desktop near field environment. Nor is it targeted to HT users. If you want to review a a 'real' REL you have to start with the T5x. Btw with a good pair of price appropriate small standmounts you can and should cross this lower than 80Hz. On another note, you slagged me off when in a comment in another of your videos I mentioned there are subs better for music and subs better for reproducing HT 'sounds' (when comparing similar or close to similar price ranges and/or sizes) but it seems to me you are starting to realize that this is the case. I don't expect you to admit this here but it is obvious reading between your words in this video.
It’s a very strange “subwoofer”.
With REL, the customer is paying for the finish, but also the brand recognition.
Maybe this sub works ok on a very small room, where space is limited and room gain is higher.
But if we’re following the same logic of a small room, the other two subs will also need to play louder before they start compressing and changing the response, while providing a lot more deep bass in most listening levels.
A sealed design with one 6.5” driver is hardly a good recipe for any subwoofer.
Most of my loudspeakers have more low end output than this REL, but they have (at least) two woofers per side on a ported enclosure.
I’m confident that are usage scenarios for this sub, and the premium finish has to be paid for.
But that’s not what I call a subwoofer.
On that price range, I expect to reach (at least) a little below 30 Hz (and for a lot less, if I put performance above looks).
tidy little mid-bass module
REL is severely overpriced and underperforming, who would have guessed
Apartment dweller here with two monolith 12 thx. If you want proper extension small subs will never cut it.
Nice testing again. Thank you.
This one is not for me.
For god sake man when are you gonna do proper review with how the product sounds to your ears with different music and movies.
Dude, settle down. I do. I always do. You’d know if you watched and listened instead of jumping to conclusions.
I have an entire video about what I listen for here:
Songs I Use to Demo Speakers and What I Listen For
ruclips.net/video/54E36HCDZLk/видео.html
Take a breather. It’ll be okay.
Rel is the biggest scam in audio especially subwoofer industry. Rythmik/monoprice/rsl are the best of the best & value for money Infact more than value for money especially in rsl case you can't even diy a better sub for the money. In diy market css 12" kit is best. Unless you are baller enough to build all on your own. Which will decimate even the yg acoustics subs.
This thing is a waste of money. Why did they even bother making it?