I don't think their relationship, age got not even considered, is intended to be healthy. It's just an exploration of that all consuming bond that exists sometimes between two people. Heck the reason they don't work out is partly because the age gap makes it impossible as their current lives are too different. People don't become magically different once they turn 18 compared to 6 months ago when they were 17. There are power imbalances in most relationships, either age, or finance, or maturity, life experience, intelligence, social power etc. The age gap and power balance isn't enough for me to find it problematic in a fiction book.
I never considered their age gap to be healthy. I see the movie more as a coming of age story and find it realistic. Especially in the way Timothee Chalamet portrayed Elios immaturity. Such power imbalances and age gaps exist. Especially at that age. But I am a 24 year old psychology student. I agree with you on the point that the film should have shown more critique from Elios parents regarding the age gap to show also younger viewers that it is not a healthy relationship. Because they probably won't understand yet.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I think the running theme of immature first love is much more prevalent than one of a mature romance and that's what hpw I've always seen it. It's amazing and rare to have families that support homosexuality but I don't think it's even the focus here. Family should be supportive of their child regardless but this is an example of extreme situations were adults have to protect their child🤷🏽♀️ I think a lot of people got caught up in romanticizing the film and I see that done with a lot of LGBT couples actually. A lot of people romanticize gay couples to the point where they dehumanize them. I think we must understand that all of these people are human and we should treat them as such, and a 17 year old being with a 24 yo is just not acceptable
In my case the gap didn't have such relevance because I assume the diferencies between cultures, that maybe in Italy that kind of relationship is not a big deal. e.g. In Mexico it really common a big gap in relationships (actually there's a song that talks about it, named " 40 & 20" and yes is about what u think) sooooo with that in mind... i know that if something is common, doesn't make it right or healthy. Now i see that difference as something "common but not right". I dont' know how much the people feels that this is making "right" this kind of relationship or is just like something that happens and thats it :/
@@blicknikk5185 We can only assume a loooot of things about this situation, i'm with you that's not ok by any means a relationship with a minor. In this case we can pretend that it was not that "dangerous" but in real life that's not the case. So we can romanticize the relationship and be nuts about the beauty of the film, but not ignoring that it's a very delicate situation. Besides all depends on the culture. . . but again that something is cool in a culture doesn't make it right.
Remember that the age of consent in 31 of the states of America is currently 16, in France it is 15, Italy it is 14, and these are by no means unusual. Many well known heterosexual people were 17 or younger when they formed relationships or married. Romeo was set at 16 Juliet at 13 in the play ( deemed one of the greatest love stories) Ava gardener married at 17, so did Demi Moore, Marilyn Monroe was 16 and there are many more examples where age gaps were greater than the 6 years in CMBYN. Oh but maybe you object to two men having a relationship at that age. So less ageist than sexist?
@@johnblaine1479 you clearly didnt get my point. I wouldnt mind if it was a heterosexual couple (no matter which partner is older) or a queer one. The only point is that such relationships can have an unhealthy power and experience imbalance. And Romeo and Juliet are really a weird example, I never found that very romantic, just two dramatic teenagers. And I would not compare it to relationships of celebrities I don't know but to relationships of for example classmates I experienced when I was younger (that were hetero by the way and one time the partner was a mich older woman, the other time an older man but that really does not matter here). The point is the power imbalance, that those relationships had and the extreme influence, the older partners had on the other one. That must not be the case. All I am saying is that the film lacks any sort of critique regarding that point, especially from the parents.
The age gap bothered me and I think it was a casting mistake as well, 17 to 24 is a significant gap, but Armie Hammer was not 24, he was 30 and looks 30, while Timothy Chalamet was 22 but looks 14 or 15 to me. If I wrote the book I would have contested that casting.
This is such a great video! When i read the book i found it very disturbing and was shocked that so many people idolize the relationship and think it's okay.
you are missing the whole point, it is not about approving, or right and wrong ... the story is an emotional journey about a boy coming of age... a boy who desperately falls in love at that age and is hormonal and horny ... When you are 17, your body is fully sexual even though you are told you are too young, you don't care about consequences you want to fall in love, get laid and think of sex all the time, because it is our nature ... The story deals with these issues and is telling the truth about it rather than pretending to be a moral guide!
The video is far from perfect. I'm sorry but how could you have read the books and agree when she says that "Oliver seemed to be more confident and secure" about his sexuality? In the book it is literally implied that Oliver isn't really confident about his bisexuality when he envies Elio for having supporting parents...which indicates that he (Oliver) is conflicted in some way by his sexuality...right? It understand it isn't in the movie, but the unsureness and shyness of both of the caracaters (especially Oliver considering Elio is actually the one to make moves first) shows through multiple times. Also, lots of people don't actually idolize the relationship itself (meaning, I don't think everyone suddenly want 17 years old to have romantic relationships with 24 years old), but rather the intricate depiction and the nuanced emotions that are present in the flm. Love doesn't always follow the same narrative and we have to be aware of that.
I knew of the age gap before I watched the movie and I couldn’t finish it after the peach scene it felt so awkward and weird since one of them is 17 It felt like it romanticised it
I knew of the age gap before I watched the movie and I couldn’t finish it after the peach scene it felt so awkward and weird since one of them is 17 It felt like it romanticised it
Just because something is legal or societally accepted doesn't mean it's moral or right. I see people talking about how it's just something American's won't be able to get, and like, sure. I'll admit. I'm pretty ignorant about a lot of things, and I dunno what it's like to be a European or grow up there. But I do know what it's like to be sexually groomed by an adult as a teenager, and I know the damaging emotional effects it can leave on a person. There will always be an unfair power dynamic in those relationships regardless of who propositioned who. Adults should know better, and teenagers don't even have fully formed brains.
If you evaluate ANY relationship in terms of "power dynamics," you will find inequalities. In this case, I am not sure which of the two had more "power." Elio's parents knew about the relationship, and supported it. What, in your estimation, was wrong with the relationship?
Okay sweetheart. 1. "Unfair power dynamic" ~ there's a power dynamic between parents and children worldwide, does it mean all parent-child relationships are bad? No. "Just because something is legal or societally accepted doesn't mean it's moral or right" ~ morals are subjective, there is no right and wrong, in some situations even you'll bend your own morals. "The damaging emotional effects it can leave on a person" ~ there's actually been a small small research on this when debating why is pedophilia morally wrong. Some people who have been been intimate as children with adults were not damaged by it at all(not saying all is not damaging, just showing how much of society's power we let in, the research even showed children who were not terrified in the act but got bad once they grew up and "understood" from society's point of view, an analogy: a child who's been raised by a single mother in an area where it is accepted to have only a mother, no effects. Vs a child who's been raised by a single mother and lived amongst happily married parents of other children, severely effected. "Adults should know better, teenagers don't have fully formed brains" sorry to let you know but your brain isn't matured/reached adulthood until the 30s(hence why 18 yo don't magically change into the final character), not legally, biologically.
Exactly, ignore these people replying to you, there the ignorant ones, just because Elio parents supported it doesn't make it okay, f*ck both them. Morals are subjective either, if r*pe or z**philia is legal or the age of consent is 6 in a country, would that be a subjective moral? No.
The thing is, wide age gaps are extremely common amongst the gay community. As long as the two partners are consenting (which they were) then it is what it is. The damaging affects that Elio faced later was not due to the age but rather the fierceness of his and Oliver’s love.
The age gap would not be a problem if Elio were 20 and Oliver was 27, but 17 and 24 is a big deal...especially when Elio's parents bring you into their home to work professionally and you end up sleeping with their underage son who (I believe) is manipulated by Oliver and then disposed of.
you are missing the whole point, it is not about approving, or right and wrong ... the story is an emotional journey about a boy coming of age... a boy who desperately falls in love at that age and is hormonal and horny ... When you are 17, your body is fully sexual even though you are told you are too young, you don't care about consequences you want to fall in love, get laid and think of sex all the time, because it is our nature ... The story deals with these issues and is telling the truth about it rather than pretending to be a moral guide!
Not everything has to be endlessly evaluated in terms of power dynamics. The two lovers loved, the parents supported the love, and the love was beautiful. No one was mistreated. Why can't the beauty of their love simply be celebrated?
Thank you - why does it have to always come down to numbers. Like if all I have to do to make the realationsip ok is say Élio is 20 it’s not strong criticism.
Thank you please tell this to mylife23 who is hell bent on calling this a pedophile situation. It’s not like elio is a child.... very well written Aristotle.
The 13 and 19 year old loved, the parents celebrated and their love was beautiful. No one was mistreated, why can't beauty of love be celebrating - love that involves a underage and adult person shouldn't be celebrated. Same with minors with a big age gap.
@@Lemoncakelover678 But they were not 13 and 19. They were consenting adults. Elio wasn't underage by the mores of his society, nor by the mores of forty-one states in the USA, nor by the mores of most civilizations throughout the ages. Stop hyperventilating and let love be love.
@@aristotleemerson3248 17 ain't a adult, it's a teenager. I don't care about the consent laws, quit using the cosmodore excuse, that doesn't make it okay. I'm not hyperventilating, I'm just using your logic and use a similar age gap involving a minor with an adult. And this ain't love, this is a adult taking advantage of a minor, it's disgusting, stop excusing this.
I appreciate your comments. As the long time partner of a man 14 years older than myself I can tell you that simple match ☹️doesn’t tell the whole story. I always felt these were two equals feeling their way forward. As it is, Elio was comfortable enough to discuss his love with his father. Oliver could never do that the dynamic of familia love plays a strong role. The book does a better job of unpacking this. And the both is one o7t of three stories that dissect love and need down to the bone. 😀
The fact that Armie Hammer got exposed for the stuff he did kinda recently doesn't surprise me after he said that the age of consent determines if a relationship is okay or not...
@Paoo 💋 yeah.. on Twitter he responded to people who had an issue with the age difference in call me by your name and said that the reason why it's okay is because at the time in Italy, the age of consent was 14 so therefore it was fine, really gross
By definition, the age of consent determines if a relationship is "OK" in the sense that "OK" means legal. What's wrong with the love between the two characters, in your estimation?
When I was a young 17 year old gay guy, I only liked guys in their 20’s. When I first read this book in 2009, I fell in love with the story, the characters, Oliver! Lol Things were different back then but now it just seems like people are more and more sensitive about these kinds of topics. My mom and dad are 13 years apart!!! I think this has more to do with soul recognition vs age. Personal opinion.
I don't have issues with age gaps like 7 years if both people are adults with the same level of maturity. I have issues with one of them being a minor. If they're both grown adults like in their 20's it's fine but a minor? Wtf no
@@dustone8542 Human brains aren't even fully developed until age 25 and there's a difference in maturity between 17 and 20. Most people aren't hardly mature enough to be considered adults by 18. 17 is still a minor in most eyes. I don't mean minor as in small child, I mean so maturity wise.
@@tannorhighroller7517 Glad actual minors weren't involved in making this. It's not artistic. It's a grown ass adult taking advantage of a child and that's sick and fucking disgusting.
I cannot understand how anybody who has watched this movie can think Oliver "groomed" Elio, or tries to compare it to "Lolita." Elio went after Oliver with a hunger for something he desperately wanted, while Oliver tried to keep his distance. Before they gave in to their mutual attractions, and their relationship ultimately became sexual, Oliver's first concern was for Elio: "Are you okay?" And he spent the next morning regretting that he might have hurt Elio or done something Elio didn't want. That is not grooming, and it is about as opposite of "Lolita" as it can possibly be. Humbert is in his forties while Lolita is twelve years old. That's a 30+ year difference. Lolita hated Humbert and tried for three years to run away from him. That is nothing at all similar to how Elio and Oliver relate to each other. Elio wanted this. It's obvious from such comments who has not read and understood "Lolita" that they would make such a comparison. Can anyone who says Oliver "groomed" Elio provide an example of it from either the movie or the book, or demonstrate how it is similar to "Lolita" with examples?
In order to be a fan of this book you just have to excuse the grooming and p*do manifestations. The author of the book themself admitted to being attracted to 12 yo's, like the call is coming from inside the house, and to see people just excuse it is uck! Sure, let's say it's not Oliver's fault that a younger boy fell for him and he just couldn't help the attraction, but because he tried to deny it tHaT's NoT gRoOmInG. Like yes the power imbalance, the setting, the DENIAL all makes this grooming. Also "Elio wanted this" I'm sorry but he's a minor, he can't want anything legally. He's not a consenting adult with a fully developed brain. As a generalized example, a young girl may have a crush on an adult man, she may chase after him but it is the responsibility of the adult man to reject her because she is a minor. The second he develops some sort of attraction, he is a pedophile or a NOMAP as you will. He is disgusting. Oliver is disgusting. Let me elaborate, Oliver is disgusting. The responsibility of an adult is to reject romantic affections and connections from minors. The reason Oliver feels this overwhelming theme of shame is because he failed to do so at moral and legal expense.
@@tooshnah3169 Elio is not a minor. He is past the age of consent in Italy, France, Spain, Germany, the UK and also the US. You are basically saying that if he and Oliver had waited another few months until Elio was 18, then it would have been OK? The author's interests have nothing to do with the fictional characters. If that were so then you would have to say the same about other writers and artists and their creations: Thomas Mann, Tchaikovsky, Goethe, Michelangelo, among others.
@@charlesdarnay5455 The age of consent in Japan is 13. Therefore 13 year olds get to make that choice, despite the logical/decision making part of their brain (The prefrontal cortex) not even being half way through the development process. Some laws are absolutely horrendous. Personally I define a minor as one who's prefrontal cortex has not yet reached 50% of development. Understandably this stage of development starts to happen around the ages of 18-19. Either way, even after the age of 18, the decision part of the brain is still developing. Individuals at this stage can still be easily manipulated and swayed especially when there's a power dynamic involved (like an age gap). I also don't believe in the concept of separating the artist from the art. That lacks total accountability. It enables people who've committed terrible acts to escape vital consequence. In short, yes. Waiting a few months could have been the difference between Elios choice being more his own, than Oliver's.
The entire movie, I think, is an tale of how unsafe young LGBTQIA+ people are in LGBTQIA+ spaces, at least how they were unsafe. Due to their young sexual and romantic experiences - that cishets get to experience - being confined or hidden due to societal bigotry and homophobia. They can only relate to older LGBTQIA+ members leading to large age gaps and grooming without mainstream and societal support.
But this movie does not even tackle the traditional LGBT+ ideology. Its shot through a historic lens been replayed in a happier key within a utopic world where the men are free to express their queer desires without having to carry the pain of social impediments.
What a load of nonsense. Elio is 17 and over the age of consent in Italy in 1983. Oliver is 25. Only eight years difference. No body has a problem with hetero couples having age differences, and those who do haven't noticed much about human relationships in their time on Earth. There is nothing at all morally wrong with this film. Yes, Elio is naïve and finding himself as an adult and a sexual being. How wonderfully life affirming. It is about two young men who find each other sexually attractive and fall in love. For his own personal reasons, and the film shows his joy at being able to explore and enjoy his own homosexuality, Oliver goes back to America and gets married. Shit happens. A lot of gay men have gotten married to women because of societal, familial or religious pressure. It shows a complete lack of imagination, not to mention empathy to not understand the deep bond these two men had for each other, however brief it was at the time, and the personal pressures that Oliver felt he was under. We should appreciate it for the beauty of what it is - not for what you would like it be. The father's famous speech is one of the greatest expressions of love and support from a father to a gay son in the history of cinema, and I'm sure a lot of LGBTQI plus people would like to have had that speech said to them by their father or mother. So look, and listen, to a film that is important on so many levels. And if you want to know more read the sequel novel Find Me, and you'll find out what happens to Elio and Oliver...
The age of consent in my country is 14, and at this age I had an affair with a 23-year-old man. For years I thought there was nothing wrong with it, because it was not illegal and besides I was the one who took the initiative, but now that I am older, I realize how inappropriate it was, as not only was there a 9 year difference, but I was also an inexperienced teenage girl with a rather immature capacity for discernment, and there was therefore an imbalance of power. So no, whether it is legal or not has nothing to do with what is morally right.
The video is so well made and so articulate. It expresses everything I felt and it is so in point. Also, for me, the age gap is really not the issue. My family is full of happy/healthy couples with an age gap of 7+ plus years, the issue is how Elio is a teenager with no experience and has a high school crush on Oliver, and Oliver is this traveling, flirting, arrogant, and well-read, 24-year-old Ph.D. student who is almost hostile initially. An 18 year Elio and a 22 year Oliver wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean Jay and Gloria are a "normal couple", Elio and Oliver are just wasted potential.
You make an interesting point. The main issue with this couple is the immaturity and lack of experience on Elio's end and Oliver kind of taking advantage of that.
Side note I just wanna thank you for the subtitles 💞💞 they really help a lot and not all people on RUclips make them, so whenever I stumble upon a video of someone who has them I feel very thankful.
I was interested to hear your thoughts on this movie. I felt uncomfortable with the central relationship when I first watched it. People have pointed out that part of the problem is the perceived ages of the characters. Oliver in particular looks considerably older than mid twenties. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a 7 year age gap, for me it was more to do with Oliver abusing his position within the family home. He was a guest/employee of the parents. We hardly see anything to suggest he does much work, so it’s easy to forget this aspect. As a gay man, I have experienced both sides of age gap relationships. When I was 17 I took my first steps to coming out in a relationship with an older man. At the time it felt unproblematic, but looking back on it now, I see it differently. Years later, when I was 30 I fell for a guy 10 years younger, but still considerably older than Elio, and while it was wildly romantic and exciting, it was also frustrating and ultimately catastrophic. The heartbreak was intense. I fully appreciate that for many people age gaps of 7 years or more work out just fine, but for me it was a bit triggering, and (as you pointed out) there was no discussion between them- whereas in my reality there are always long conversations. I ended up not liking Oliver very much because, putting myself in his position, I would have behaved very differently. Had it been a huge love affair then I would have been happier, but ultimately what stopped them continuing their relationship after the Summer? This highlighted to me that it was infatuation and a need on Elios part to find an appropriate outlet for his feelings towards men, and a need to experience sexual love. It just wasn’t a great love story for me. The straw that broke the camel’s back for me was the way that Elios parents behaved. I can’t believe any parent would be unconcerned about what was happening in their house. They seemed fine with Elio being gay, fantastic, good for them, I’m sure all gay children wish they had that, but they seem so detached, just observing. This was their child. They didn’t know Oliver that well, and inevitably they had to pick up the pieces afterwards. Again, where were the conversations checking in with Elio. There is a big difference between being accepting of your child’s developing sexuality, and being completely unconcerned about them. Surely they had a parental responsibility to ensure Oliver wasn’t abusing his position and the power balance?
The age gap is one thing if they were 20 to 27 but he is 17 years old a teenager and that’s not cool - Oliver was absolutely in control - he took advantage . Because he could because he had more experience
Could you explain this to me in more detail? Older men and women have always tried to date me, but I've always ignored them. I don't want to fall into their traps ever again
I LOVED CMBYN when I first watched it. And the second time. And the third time. But then the fourth time, I found myself thinking "hmm... something's not sitting well with me here." I think for me, personally, it's not the age gap that bothers me so much; often 24 year old men aren't much more mature than 17 year old boys. For me, in the film, it's the casting. Timmy looks like a gangly 16 year old youth, but Armie (gorgeous as he is) could pass as a man of 32. And that doesn't feel right to me; they don't visually fit together. But that's just me and my opinion.
@@heirloom906 Gay men? ELIO is a teenager and has a WOMAN as a mother as well. You're lying if you're attempting to say that armies hammer looking 40 wasn't on purpose.
... gay or straight, someone who looks 30 should not be hooking up with someone who looks 16. What kind of grown person (gay or straight) wants to have sex with a kid? Geez there's a name for that kind of person... what is it? 🤔 And if you don't agree with me, imagine someone not as hot as Armie Hammer in that role.
Imagine the exact same movie with an heterosexual couple, the girl being the younger. It would be read plainly as an ephebophilliac fantasy. "Oh but what if they were the one's who started it". "Their pops are ok with it". "I was so confused too". Couple that with the book's author's problematic remarks about attractive 12 y/o. It only gets a free pass because it deals with a gay couple, and we don't care about male sexual abuse half as much as we care about female abuse.
This! Thank you so much for bringing this up! In the gay community it has become almost normalized for older men to hit on younger guys. Ever since I joined dating apps as a young guy, I have been constantly hit up by men in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc. Obviously much older than a 18 year old and It is utterly disgusting and sad. I don't see enough portrayal of real gay love or enough role models of gay marriages. It is as if the entire community is only here to have sex and no responsibilities, with obvious few exceptions.
Thank you someone else finally said something. My issue isn't an age gap, it's an age group with a minor. My issue isn't that it's an lgbtq couple, but my issue is that if this was a straight couple people would be saying this is a predatory relationship and rightfully so. When did we get to the point that lgbtq kids apparently are not kids just because their sexuality? I don't care what you identify with I don't care who you are but there is no justification for coming in somebody's house and having a sexual relationship with someone's 17-year-old kid when you are a grown adult man or woman. And the fact that the author made it seem like it was a good thing or okay and the fact that everyone is romanticizing it is honestly so gross to me.
Well that's simply because you are viewing the film through the schools of realism when Luca Guadagnino has precisely declared several times that such a film is to be seen through a school of idealism and has certain philosophical, historic and cultural elements attached that assert the immateriality of age and sexuality in the blissful romance forged between Elio and Oliver.
@@tedmink7568I would argue that it sits on the fence between realism and idealism. Setting it in the 80s roots it in a reality. And for me, it wasn’t a great romance, it was a summer fling, an obsession, a crush. They were 2 conflicted characters. Oliver seems uncertain of his sexuality, and Elio is expressing his for the first time. For me, it was 2 people experimenting with each other, which is fine, but it’s dressed up as some idyllic grand passion. Surely if they truly loved each other they would try to continue after the summer in some way, but Oliver knows that outside of their little bubble, in the real world, things would seem very different.
@@sandrew255 That is where the film's idealism and philosophical narrative steps in. The name exchange that takes place between Elio and Oliver is a reference to the Split-Soul theorem contained within the Speech of Aristophanes in Plato’s Symposium that describes a theory behind soul mates...Two Humans, irrespective age or gender, were connected to each other and later dispelled into the real world where their souls were shared and each subject was destined on a life-long journey to search for each other and reconcile their millenary bond. Elio and Oliver, according to this philosophy are soul mates who have found each other and thereby when Elio calls Oliver Elio he is addressing his other half and when Oliver calls Elio Oliver he is addressing his other half (The Unity of Soul Mates).
Another example of why children should not be sent to review movies made by and for adults. There is nothing wrong or immoral about the supposed age gap. Why do Americans insist on applying their puritanical morals to the rest of the world? The age of consent in Italy at the time was 14. Elio is three years past that. Americans need to get over themselves and their double standards.
No, I don’t think people would’ve been anymore comfortable if Elio was 18. I think it’s the fact that 17 and 24 are such different places in your life your brain is so much more developed at 24 and you have so much more life experience than at 17. No matter how mature you are your brain is still less developed because the mind doesn’t stop forming until 25 and the part that’s still forming is the part that involves decision making. However I do still think it was a beautiful movie and as I’m reading the book it is even more so. But that’s my take on the whole thing.
@@aloe1073 And yet, people watch "Dirty Dancing" where Jennifer Grey and Patrick Swayze are the same ages there as Elio and Oliver here: 17 and 24. But nobody complains about that age difference, it is apparently acceptable and viewed as a romantic coming of age story. So why the double standard?
Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s not immoral. 14 is very young. Still in middle school, in fact. You’re disgusting if you think that’s okay. The mental damages that leaves on a young person is evident. Culture doesn’t change science. Culture can be immoral and wrong.
@@briannabrittany3127 I have no idea I’ve never watched dirty dancing. I don’t know the context and I don’t know what’s going on but I don’t agree with 17 and 24 as an age gap no matter where it occurred. However it was filmed and MADE in the 80’s when people weren’t as aware as to why that’s problematic perhaps? And before it’s mentioned in aware that cmbyn was set in the 80’s it was written and filmed in the 2000’s and 2010’s when people had more knowledge as to why that is not ok. Again as I have not watched dirty dancing I am not biased towards it. And I don’t know why people have the double standard but I don’t I’m not people I’m Aloe and I think 17 and 24 is not an acceptable age gap, full stop.
Where is your proof that in counries where the age of consent is younger than you'd like, that their population is mentally damaged? Sweden, Holland, Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Spain, etc etc all seem to have better sexually educated young people than the USA, with lower rates of abortion and STDs. Maybe the younger age of consent, coupled with better and earlier sex education, gives younger people a more adult perspective, and sooner.
As an Italian, we don't care for the age gap, age of consent here is very low which is a problem for many people but if you meet a 17 year old here, he's practically gonna act the same in their 20s. I've met people who sqated 16 year olds at 18/19, and we didn't care cause neither of them we're mature enough to live alone. No one becomes a baby at 17 and master oogway at 18, thats just ridiculous.
Appreciate the brave take on this topic considering how controversial it actually is. Content wise, it’s packed but not too rushy or scattered considering it’s under 11 minutes. Although I would appreciate it if you could provide other examples of LGBTQ+ movies that portrays the same issue such as Bloomington and For A Lost Soldier.
I'm so tired of this "cancellation" thing. People HAVE GOT TO STOP finding a problem with eveeerythinnng! It's set in the 80s. It wasn't a problem back then. And depending on the part of the world you live it may even not be a problem now. But back to the cancellation thing. Its getting out of control. Wanting to "cancel" things that are really old. Life before was different, period. And now we realize what things were wrong and we change them, and that's it. We can't erase the past. We learn from it and move on.
I do understand the problem that the age gap might initially seem, I think that's kind of the point of the film; like, Oliver is a pretty manipulative character and making them have that age gap is a deliberate choice by the director to show how Oliver treated Elio (someone much younger than him) cruelly and was pretty conniving. I think it's more a deliberate choice to show the effect of that happening on someone younger, in this case, Elio. But I do appreciate it's not stated super explicitly in the film, and obviously, that's just my opinion. Still very well-made and thoughtful vid tho :)
I am sorry but having spoken to the director himself, none of what you say is true. There were no ulterior motives behind Oliver's role. And anything regarding age is far beyond and irrelevant to the film and its "point".
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who detests this movie. It's the story of a textbook manipulator destroying a naive young man's life and personality. It's not a love story. What Oliver does to Elio is just terrible. By playing fast and loose with him he makes Elio obsess about him to the point that he mistreats his girlfriend after having taken her virginity, and this is only one of the many iniquities he committs. I wrote an entire essay once about how sick and dysfunctional the whole dynamic between them is. It's a long text. The age gap is not the problem. Oliver would still be a terrible person if Elio was older. Like all manipulators, what he wants is power over his victim. He doesn't fancy Elio because he's pretty but because everybody lets him behave without any kind of consideration towards anyone, except for Elio, who initially is wary about him; so Oliver wants him to look up to him the way everybody does, and plays cats and mouse with him until the hapless Elio only has eyes for him. Elio's family and even his ex girlfriend are supportive. Homosexuality is no longer illegal in Italy since 1890. These two are not star-crossed. For Oliver it was just a summer fling, then he just went on to marry his girlfriend, of whom he had never talked. And Elio's father doesn't have the nerve to tell him to forget about that scumbag and find himself a decent and loyal partner next time. (Whom he already had in Marzia, by the way. And he enjoyed sex with her.) Elio didn't need Oliver. He was fine, just growing and a little immature. In the end, his life and personalty is crushed, we don't see him enjoy his intellectual activities any more, he feels pain any time someone says his name. And 95 % of the viewers insist on how romantic and poetic this movie is. God-awful. If you want a really convincing, healthy, inspiring same-sex love story, watch "Red, White and Royal Blue." Or "Maurice". Or "Beautiful Thing". Anything but this.
You are so right. I think people get seduced by the beauty of the cinematography, the score, the setting, and the actors, and that makes it easy to romanticize it, but in reality, this is a cautionary tale. We see the damage it does to the younger and more vulnerable character, and no one in this scenario protected him. It's a tragedy, ultimately.
@@bdml77 I'm with both of you. I found the movie to be extremely uncomfortable knowing the age gap. I've been aware of the film for years, but never realized that Elio is 17 and Oliver is 24 until after a friend of mine (who happens to be pansexual) recommended the film to me (a heterosexual guy). It goes without saying that the fact the film depicts a gay relationship is NOT the issue at all. It does not make me uncomfortable. What makes me uncomfortable is the age gap and my friend never mentioned before I watched the film. I had a debate about it with my friend back in January and the defenses he gave were really... concerning. He would say things like "It was a different time!" and "Their relationship is the exception, not the rule." One time he said "The age of consent in Italy is 14." and I responded by saying "And you think that makes it okay? Neither of them are even American." and my friend said: "Elio's Italian-American." Riiiiiiiight. That somehow makes it better. It's absolutely ridiculous. I also don't buy the argument of people claiming their relationship was intentionally written to be toxic because the author wrote a sequel novel of Elio and Oliver getting back together. The film also never ADDRESSES the age gap at all. The film also would not be automatically fixed if Elio was aged up to 18. It would still be creepy because there is barely any difference in maturity between a 17 year old and an 18 year old.
I really admire how you brought up each point, pro and con, then defended it in an extremely rational, balanced manner. I haven't seen the movie yet, but have seen a lot of clips as well as the interviews with the director and cast. I think I might read the book first, then see the film. GREAT job with this!
In the movie Dirty dancing The female character is 17 and the guy 24 and nobody saw it as a problem then and not now. OB the contrary, It’s a classic Love story. We don’t see videos talking about the the age gap problematic. I wonder if It’s because is a heterossexual couple?
i think it's cos that movie was made 30 years ago and a lot of things in 80s films are deemed problematic today. but I agree that the dirty dancing couple was also messed up, any adult relationship with a teenager is messed up. I also think people pick up on this movie because of the casting choices - elio looks so young in comparison to oliver (who looks 30+), whilst in other movies the actors are of similar ages so it's not too obvious
@@charlesdarnay5455 ethically probably not, but at least in that case it's two consenting adults and it's not telling literal children and teenagers that it's okay to get involved in relationships with grown men and women.
Could we please stop to make a problem out of EVERYTHING! The Age Gap between my boyfriend and I is 5 years so please, stop it. The movie is about two people falling in love with each other and that’s about it.
my problem is with the aesthetic. Timothee looked 16.. Armee looked almost 40. Their real age during filming was not as big. 20 vs 29 (i was shocked by this).
(1) I like this video. You make some good points. Thank you for sharing. (2) I agree with some of what you say about the Oliver-Elio relationship. Oliver looks like he's about 30. Elio appears to be about half that age, maybe. (When Call Me By Your Name was filmed, Armie Hamer was 30; Tim Chalamet was 21.)
I am pretty sure that people who have problems with the age gap in CMBYN can watch Dirty Dancing and don't blink an eye about the age gap there. In that movie Baby (Jennifer Grey) is 18 yrs old, while Jonny (Patrick Swayze) is 24. And yes, 18 is not 17, but seriously, how much emotionally mature is someone at 17 compared to 18?
There is so much conservative bias in this. In what way did Oliver take advantage of Elio? He was reluctant and only gave in because Elio was really convinced he wanted him. How exactly was Elio harmed by having Sex with Oliver? In what way is someone who is young (but already has a normal sex drive) harmed by being sexually active with someone older? That really depends of the behaviour of the older person and i didn't see any harmfull behaviour in this. How is it really up to debate if Oliver really loved him? That's what the movie tells and it doesn't imply anything else. In fact, what makes this movie(and maybe book i didn't read it) so special, is that every character is taken so seriously. Nobody is shaming Oliver for loving someone young (not a child, but a teen that already has more mature desires), nobody thinks Elio should not be allowed to decide who he wants to have sex with and even his parents are so supportive and the monologue of his dad in the end pretty much sums up what the actual message of the story is. Even the girl that fell in love with Elio is taken serious and has a clarifying talk with Elio in the end.
Elio was clearly feeling off after he had sex with Oliver but instead of comforting him, Oliver was more concerned whether or not Elio is still into him (hence the blow job). The book gives insight on Elio's disturbed state of mind after their sex but even in the movie, you can see that Elio was being distant in the morning after. Compared to his reaction after he had sex with 'the girlfriend' , Elio was definitely more himself afterwards. Beautiful words such as "Call me by your name, and I'll call you by mine" means nothing if you truly look at Oliver's behaviour towards Elio, especially after sex. Being an intellectual, musical prodigy and a polyglot does not mean you are mature. The parent's acceptance does not make the relationship any more okay either. The main issue in the age gap here is their imbalance of power and maturity. Maybe try watching the whole video above for more info :)
@@sallystake4225 yes, Elio seemed different after their first Sex, but why do you think that has to do with their age difference? Was it really because of Oliver, or more because of the social stigma, that comes with him having sex with an older man, instead of a girl his age. Was he maybe afraid he would get in trouble because he had sex with his dads guest? What makes you not think that? The sex, out of respect for true intimacy, is not shown to the viewer. So you just seem to assume the reason for Elios behaviour is the sex. why didn't you consider it from a perspective that does not fit the age gap ≈ predator clishe? Why is Elios emotional state after their first time valid, but Oliver being afraid Elio does not share the same feelings is not? What I hear out of your position, is that you think Oliver is just trying to sexually exploit Elio but has no real interest in him. You seem to see sinister intentions, but these are never implied or pointed to in the story. Especially their first intimate contacts, are all initiated by Elio himself what always showed for me that Oliver was aware of the power he has because he was more mature and he did not pressure him into having sex with him and instead let everything flow at Elios pace. And I'm fully aware of the inbalance of power that comes with the difference in maturity because I'm an educator, but that does not at all imply a relationship between them is doomed as abusive even though US-culture seems to assume that. I also read the review of the person who was groomed by her teacher in your info and while that was a horrible story, it's not really comparable with Elios situation and further confirms you're probably pretty biased because of worst case scenarios that are very present in media.
@@mrphilipp14122 Regardless of the reason why Elio was feeling "off" after sex, Oliver being the more mature one in the relationship, should have checked up on him. He should have asked all the concerns you have for Elio having sex with an older man like u mentioned above. I never said that Oliver being concerned about Elio's change of heart is invalid. It just seemed inappropriate to care about that first thing when your much younger sexual partner is feeling not okay. I said in the video that they might have feelings for each other but it's mostly led by lust. Oliver NEVER checked up on how Elio was feeling afterwards or even before, never ask if he is comfortable, never ask what he likes, these conversations are important for every relationship. I didn't use the term abusive or predator to describe Oliver either but I'm merely saying age gap is something to be ware off. There are successful couples with big age gaps and that's because their level of maturity and power dynamic is the same. Whereas in cmbyn, Oliver seems to take advantage of Elio's crush to explore his sexuality but without thinking about the repercussion that might affect Elio's state of mind after he decided to get married out of the blue. They went from chit chatting about philosophy, riding bikes, eating brunches, to literally making out and being head over heels for each other but this movie fails to depict an essential part in a relationship which is getting to know the person (their aspirations, their past, their future) if you're in love with someone, wouldn't you wanna know those things? but we found none of those things out in the movie because they never truly communicate their desires and intentions.
i'm not conservative at all and I agree with the video, their relationship reminds me of one I had as a 12 year old with someone older than me... it's not okay
The major problem is the age gap. His brain isn't completely developed yet. He could be so easily manipulated. That's not right no matter what context.
I personally know ppl who had experiences similar to cmbyn, in today's standards we know this is unacceptable and that's actually good but unfortunately, during my time as a teen, the age gap wasn't much of an issue but the sexual preference was. Lolita, CMBYN, similar stories like these should be read with a mature / critical mindset since ppl tend to overlook certain issues bec they find such relationships romantic.
True, CMBYN is about mental abuse, Oliver is a manipulating, gaslighting narcissist. Still people call it a love story. And yes...at some point is similar to Lolita but told from the view of a abuse victim..
@@ultron374 disagree, Oliver is shown in the film to be an insecure individual whose been closeted by his homophobic family, he never gaslights or manipulates mostly hes just scared and regretful the whole film. I think you might be projecting armie hammer who IS a gaslighting narcissist onto Oliver
@@natestern2021 he is still using this guy even if he knows he will dump him at the end and it will never be a relationship causing this yonger guy mental distress. ( he just used him for his own purpose - got his rocks off) Oliver is a manipulator ( i don't know anything about Armie)
@@ultron374 well by that logic so is Elio. And Armie Hammer is terrible in real life don't google it, it gets messy. And I can't remember any scene that gave any indication that he was using Elio.
@@natestern2021 there were actually quite many if u look closely ( trunks off scene, drunk scene and the one he goes to the girl to dance and treats Elio like poo- asks Elio to translate stuff to the girl- nice) he was taking an advantage quite many times. Characters in this movie were so underdeveloped and shallow that it was painfull to watch.
As a older gay man who had an "Elio" some 40+ years ago (whom I still love and with whom I am still friends...and also with his current lover. He was, at the time older than Elio, btw), I profoundly disagree with you. You are obsessed with the numbers. Concerns over age gaps are a social construct and have varied throughout the ages. While you are entitled to your ideas, you provide weak support for the universality of them. For one thing, a good many males of Elio's age are quite capable of being the aggressor in such a relationship. I will agree that there is experimentation going on, both heterosexually and homosexually...but this IS normal despite the oppression of those who think otherwise. I sense what I've noticed in many people recently, something I term "creeping puritanism." America is a sex-negative society that is wallowing in sex all the time. Couple that with a oppressive religiosity from many quarters, and now add to that a rising (and justified) realization of female sexual harassment and abuse, it is arguably to be expected to view Elio and Oliver from that perspective. I might add that the book might suggest a somewhat different perspective as does the sequel "Find Me." The facebook site devoted to CMBYN has reams of responses from around the world that are entirely contrary to your position. In short, by focusing on the age gap you've now glossed over the fundamental beauty of the film.
Well said, John. Thank you. So many people -- perhaps most -- go through their entire lives without having a relationship one-tenth as beautiful as that between Elio and Oliver.
Disgusting film that glorifies sexual predation and perpetuates "son-and-daddy relationships" among the gay community. The movie feels like something a NAMbLA member would support and push. The age of consent is irrelevant - Armie Hammer looks old enough to be Elio's father. The boy is literally portrayed as a child who cuddles with his parents, shaves peach fuzz from his face, talks childlike and is in a relationship with someone portrayed very much as an adult man. Imagine if this was a man and a girl. Just because the child is pursuing the relationship does not make it OK. It's disturbing how much this film is lauded and shameful how it overshadowed films like God's Own Country, which actually deserved recognition, not this pedophilic propaganda
As a bisexual man, I think Luca’s Call Me By Your Name (2017) is a better representation not just of homosexuality in our age but of bisexuality and bisexual romances. Consider that both Elio and Oliver are in fact, both bisexual - not simply gay. Bi-erasure is extremely problematic, both in the heterosexual world and unfortunately within the LGBTQ community itself. This movie speaks to the fact, that aside from its aesthetic Northern Italian backdrop, yes, that bisexuality exists, and can be beautiful. Beautiful in the sense that it differs from societal confines or stereotypes between what society may depict homosexual men as: drag, overly effeminate, and camp. The movie depicts a believably developed attraction for me between two guys that is playful, charming, and speaks to the unrequited love rather between two male souls. Understand that gayness in general has been historically canceled and frowned upon by Western society and that the author demonstrates unrequited love and this strife artfully through their age difference. Moreover, both Oliver and Elio are importantly traditionally masculine men; Oliver being all-American (he plays sports, is confident, a lady-killer; Elio being nonchalant and coo), it speaks to the current stereotype of Gay men being awkward, shy, reserved and effeminate creatures. The movie artfully demonstrates the reality of a homosexual relationship, albeit in a beautiful and more refined idyllic setting. The villa, the family, and the countryside give viewers a glimpse into the memories of both men. The setting speaks to a fond time long past in both their experiences. Now regarding the age gap: take it as the modern-day reality that most gay romances in our age happen over sexting nudes on obscene dating apps such as Grindr and Tinder. Guys ask each other for ass and cock pics before any* romance even occurs. Hookup culture is extremely prevalent. More disturbingly, the young men on these apps are preyed upon by predators much, much older than they are. Do I think the 7 - year age gap is problematic? No. Not really. If Oliver was 10 years older, maybe. If he was more? Yes. Elio is a smart, sexually promiscuous, hot young guy who sleeps with Marcia and fondles her breasts, he even cums early. He’s excited and wants to explore his adolescence and sexuality. Is this something I think should be okay for an adolescent guy to do? Yes. Frankly yes. It’s part of a person’s sexual development to be able to properly explore themselves and understand their sexuality. It is their right and freedom and more importantly, *their* body. Why right or business do you think a society has in saying someone can’t do what *they want with *their body? I think everyone should be able to do what they want with their body. (As long as it isn’t harm). Going back to the movie, we see both Oliver and Elio asking for consent at every stage and at every interaction in their romance. Despite the one awkward encounter with Oliver grabbing water from Elio and grabbing his shoulder, most if not all their advances have been consensual. Oliver asks for permission to kiss or touch Elio either verbally or non-verbally. It is this beautiful dynamic that I think can only be understood by people who are bisexual or homosexual and should be taken as such. Granted, I do understand that people may see it differently and from a place of vehement hatred, and I ask these people, why be part of a society? Moreover, why restrict freedom for people within a world and age range that is in fact, ok. Let them love each other. It’s pure and it’s what real love should be.
You don't typically fall in love with someone your age. Elio learned much about life from Oliver and not much beyond sexual experience from the female lover his age.
True. And that is how many if not most LGBT people learned about life in those days, when there were no role models for them to learn from. If you were lucky, you might find someone older and wiser and more experienced to help you grow up and accept yourself. Elio's female lover laughed at his first attempt to have sex with her. Oliver took it slowly and cautiously and at Elio's pace. Your comment here inspired me to write a much longer comment about this dynamic above.
@@kimerietate8372 Can you provide studies and data that prove your point? My parents were 6 years apart. My grandparents were twelve years apart. Who are these "most people" you are alluding to?
i have no problem with anything but why would they not just make him a year older? its not like it would drastically change the plot?, i understand that the book may have been that way but plenty of books that get adapted into movies tend to change things up so its suitable for a screen. but honestly if you have a problem with the age thing maybe youre too young to be watching an adult movie
I’ve never understood why people blacklist age gaps. Sure they have the potential to lead to power imbalance but that doesn’t mean they all will. Instead people try their hardest to split potentially happy couples instead of just keeping a closer eye one them. It just seems weird to me to attempt to take away actual choice from people when they’re are such bigger issues in this world, especially considering most issues derived from an age gap can absolutely still happen in other couples as well
Everyone’s gonna have issues with an age gap! Whether it’s 17-24, 24-30, 30-41 people always have an issue but when it comes to the straights it’s all ok!
You are so right on! It took me a while to watch it cause of the age gap. In fact my sister (who is straight) dated her now husband when she was 17 and he was 30. (They even had a kid together). And it made me think of that.
i think this film should have been raising more awerness about the age gap. it showed ped0phili@ in a romantic way, not addressing the problems of their relationship at all. i didnt like this film because although the writers might wanted us to feel uncormfterble, showing real life relationships, no character ever juged them over the age gap. it basically romanticised gro0ming without saying how wrong was it, letting elio keep hurting himself and oliver leaving without any consequences. also the stars in your video were shit can you stop with them? the peaches were also unnececery. (no hard feelings)
For the simple reason that it is not a pedophilic romance, it does not have any issues to highlight. You are viewing the film through an incorrect lens of realism when ideally Guadagnino films usually require to be viewed in the eyes of idealism. CMBYN is more complex than regular romance films and has a certain philosophical rehtoric and historic key attached to it that helps mitigate issues of age and sexuality in the romance that blossoms between Elio and Oliver. The entire film resembles an artwork and to say the peach is unecessary is like telling Da Vinci that the Mona Lisa is unnecessary. The peach serves a deeply rooted philosophical purpose and is meant to reflect the invariant and universal desire for sensual pleasure among libido driven teenagers while according to the story the peach symbolises Elio's attachment to Oliver and his desire to not let go of him.
They aren't adults that's the problem. Imagine if a straight man who's 24 years old moved in with two people to help them and then he preyed after their 17-year-old daughter. Does it still sound like a romantic story?
It's not even the fact that it happened because I know it happens in the straight community all the time. My thing is is that it's being romanticized and seen as a good thing within the lgbtq community. Straight teens need to be protected, lgbtq teens need to be protected, and the fact that they're trying to put lgbtq kids on the same level as adults just because of their sexuality is so dangerous.
I have to disagree with you on some things. I mean honestly, this opinion is from the perspective of an American (please correct me if I'm wrong). In Europe, a 7 year age gap isn't really big of a deal, to be honest, or at least where I live it is perfectly fine. I mean I don't know, it might be the fact that here we need to grow up faster, I remember generally doing almost everything on my own because of my neglectful parents and I know that here in Hungary this is a county-wide phenomenon. (I have a friend who at 16 was living with her bf who was around 26, her mom knew about it and was friends with her bf, they were just living together and being happy). Not even talking about the fact that the movie is set in the 1980s when this wasn't even as big of a deal as it is today. And also, gay people don't really have a choice of who they want to be with. I mean I lost my virginity to a 50 something years old man at the age of 18. Yes, this shouldn't be okay but this is what gay people go through and this is why the majority idealizes this piece of art. Because they can relate to it so much. So if I was able to find a 23-year-old at the age of 17 (or idk how old they are) then that would make me so happy, just like it made Elio happy. (and devastated after but that's a different story). By the way, loved the video and I can see where you are coming from! :) These are only cultural differences.
Thank you for the compliment on the video. I'm neither European nor American tho haha. It's really interesting to see your perspective on age gap in Europe being more normalised. However, I think it all comes down to maturity and the power dynamics when it comes to age gap in couples. I agree that a lot of gay people will relate to this film. It is very beautifully shot but I think it glamorise the bad parts of the relationship a lot. It would be much better if LGBTQ+ youths today know what is truly a healthy relationship either by having the right representation on screen or having the audience acknowledge that the representation on screen is problematic. They should know that they do not have to "settle" in an unbalance relationship in order to experience love or sex, especially when being gay is more accepted today. BTW I'm sorry to hear that you lost your virginity that way. It shouldn't be like that.
One of my fav movies/books, i love the aesthetic and their romance is just amazing(with exceptions ofc). Unfortunately people are hating it a lot. I know theres bad relationship stuff, but the goals for me is how they show their most pure feelings. And yes we need to remember the story’s from 83(no 100% healthy relationships at all)
Painting pretty little stories that please everyone's ideals is just not real life. What CMBYN does brilliantly is it creates a beautiful environment for something real and ugly to unfold, it's not a throwaway film, and this is why it will be spoken about as a cinematic masterpiece for many years.
As someone who’s been in an age gap relationship I wouldn’t say that the actual gap is the problem, but where the two are in their lives at their ages. Elio is 17, having sex and falling in love for the first time, still learning about the things that “actually matter” while 24 year old Oliver is experienced and has lived more life than Elio. The power imbalance is crazy there and is what is especially concerning. I did enjoy it more than I thought I would, buttttt
A girls take on the conditions of the heart or the world in general, of course very american and puritanic. When i here "morally" "healthy", "appropriate" regarding relationships I am reminded of the nazi past in my country. "Grow up, see you at midnight" or how was it like after Elio chasing Oliver with so much effort ?
My cousin is 14 and has a 32-year-old boyfriend And that's very strange to me I'm 18, but I've always avoided older people. Older women and men have tried to manipulate me into an abusive relationship. Thank God I've always ignored them. It's better to be a Virgin than someone else's toy
@@mylife-23 if this was my child no, I would put a stop to it but this is how the story was written, so I’m focusing less on the age gap. I don’t have issues but really enjoyed the movie and thought it was an amazing story.
If he was one year older would it make that much of a difference? I myself wasn't much different between the ages of 17-19. I started being sexually active at 17. I dated a 26 year old when I was 19. I don't regret it at all and was fully in love. Would it be a coming of age story if he were 18? Maybe? Maybe not. Either way I don't think Elio wasn't old enough to make his own decisions. I also don't think he regrets it and his dad's advise even tells him not to regret it and to grow from it. Idk. I guess a big age gaps all depend on who's experiencing them. My grand parents were 10 years apart. They met later in life. I can't see myself being with someone 10 years older but they clearly could. Who's to judge who someone else is willing to fall in love with if both are consenting?
I dont care if its like normal in Europe or wherever italy is 😭 its just creepy lol. And also even in legal relationships in America, (18 and dating a 40 yr old or 18 and with a 27 year old) its weird.
I am very late, but Dear Lord, let people have opinions people Lmao. There are a myriad of different people out there in the world, with different moral codes and priorities as you not everyone can agree with you and vice versa. The best you can do is to understand really. You don't have to change your opinion, no one is forcing you to, so don't force others to agree with you too. Even if you disagree with Sally's take or find it appalling, be constructive about your criticism, don't just spew bs. Be respectful to this amazing youtuber, have a great day.
Thank you! I kept seeing so many people singing the praises for this movie… but I couldn’t get the same vibes from it, I was just disgusted for the most part…
I like your video editing v much, the bg music, the art, color combo, those little peaches that you put here and there, I mean like the overall aesthetic is really good but mann lets just agree to disagree lol.
I think having Hammer who was 30 trying to play someone 24 didn't help. Have a actor that looked 24, similar build to Timothee would it have felt as off? Make it now and have say Kit Connor as Elio and Tom Holland as Oliver, would that seem so strange? Kit is a big guy but can pull off 17, Tom has matured but could still pass for 24. So yes casting influence the framing of the age gap, not just the gap and I think that was PR and editorial choice when the film was made to make it look like the gap was much wider.
Then you would be surprised to know that as per the sequel, Elio becomes empowered through his romance with Oliver, motivated to seek his place in the adult world and readily accepts and comes to terms with his queer sexuality. 20 years after both Elio and Oliver lead two successful and intellectual lives they meet again in the same villa and reconcile their millenary bond. Not one problem.
The big problem for me is the Elio’s weird obsession abt Oliver which was really disturbing in the book. Like any relationship shouldn’t being based on that kind of toxic obsession. Even if it says that Oliver loves Elio more then we think I totally disagree that. Elio is very, deeply, in this while Oliver seems just like having fun, like it’s a game. He don’t seems to realize the Elio’s pain like he don’t give a shit. Moreover it’s just disgusting for me that the author just chose the age gap for normalize this kind of relationship. I mean he’s pedophilic and he try to romantize this it’s just super wrong eurk
The heterosexual culture is full of hyprocrisy. The Europeans used to marry off young women to old men. Girls are still married to old men in the Middle East. It was the standard in the U.S. that the man was to be older. (Maybe so when he would be an invalid, the wife could take care of him.) My mother was at least 4 years younger than my father. I had a male Indian co-worker who had an arranged marriage. He held it up as virtuous, yet was always thinking of prostitutes! Any guy who transcribes music is mature enough to handle a first love situation. Elio was more "mature" than the guys I knew in college. The age difference is just a red herring.
While I mostly agree with you, and I especially hate arranged marriages (I am gonna be emotionally manipulated into one sooner than later) my only problem is Elio is underage. He could've been 18 and none of it would be lost
@@linnaeusshecut3959 also, a lot of viewers of the movie aren't American or European. I am Indian. And here the legal age is 18. Also a lot in the movie is unsaid but heavily implied and pretty obvious for someone who has been in their shoes. Most people haven't had a love/lust so forbidden. They don't read expressions or body language. They listen to the dialogues and watch a movie as if it is a podcast.
@@Sacrificallamba The age difference subject was discussed years ago when the movie was still new. That is how I learned that the age of consent in Italy is below 18, but I don't remember the exact age.
um...okay? that doesn't change that their relationship is disgusting, just because lots of straight people are fine with straight non consent "relationships", doesn't mean it's okay if it's a gay relationship
A 7 year age gap is Absolutely nothing, at all. Yes making Elio 17 and a minor That's an issue with AMERICAN law, not sure what the laws in Italy are. And Elio made all the advances, Oliver stopped him Several times. Additionally, Elio's dad seemed to know what was going on. Horrible video you've got here
elio was too, in a relationship aspect, immature, and it just seemed like he was more so manipulated by oliver rather than them being in an equally requited relationship. elio was young and still discovering his sexuality and he was unfortunately met and got engaged in a fling. i heard that it’s based on the writer’s real life experience and what happened in his life, i might be wrong but if that is so, that might explain the awkward age gap.
@@charlesdarnay5455 it may have seemed like elio was the one in charge but the whole time oliver was there he was already doing too much, as in he teased elio romantically so elio would think it would lead to them being something together. it’s not laid out on the table but oliver manipulated elio emotionally as he was a grown adult who knows more than to toy with a person almost half his age, who knows obviously less than he does about love. just look at how it ended, elio was left confused and to oliver, disregarding what he said, it was simply just a summer fling.
@@siyonnsophearum4485 Oliver told Elio several times "we are not doing that" but Elio kept pushing for it. Even the night they finally had sex, Oliver asked first, "are you ok" before they proceeded. When and where did Oliver "manipulate" Elio? Examples? Neither of them manipulated the other. They both struggled to express their attraction to each other. That is not manipulation. it is the struggle to come to terms with one's sexuality in an age where it was unacceptable to talk about being gay, let alone actually being gay.
@@charlesdarnay5455 yes true it was unacceptable to talk about being gay back then in the movie, but monir and issac were openly gay, i know this doesn’t add to anything but i’m just trying to say that it wasn’t impossible to be gay. and while oliver did ask for consent and all that before proceeding to doing things, it was still manipulation in a way. the level of maturity in the relationship is what determines who’s in control since it is clear that the person who knows more would take the steering wheel and in this case elio was still just discovering his sexuality and what he likes and doesn’t. even though oliver said “we’re not doing this”, in the dialogue of them talking towards the near end, he said he was giving elio signs when he touched him so it was since the beginning that oliver wanted to toy with him and leave it as just a summer fling.
@@siyonnsophearum4485 Until Oliver realized that Elio was that naive and immature, at which point he immediately backed off and kept his distance. Or tried to, as best he could while living in the next room in the same house. And once he did realize Elio's naivete, and saw that Elio was still pursuing him, even leaving love notes under his door, Oliver finally took the lead, but did so very gently and patiently, letting Elio set the pace, and worrying afterwards whether or not he was doing the right thing. This was about much more than a summer fling. This was about one person helping another discover his sexuality, exploring it with him, and doing it carefully as possible, knowing it couldn't last. I don't think people who aren't gay don't understand that dynamic. It's a heavy responsibility being the one to bring someone out of the closet, and Oliver did it the best he knew how once he understood Elio, and his concern was for Elio first and foremost. Even Elio knew from the beginning that it couldn't last, and yet he kept at it.
I gotta be honest, as a part of the LGBT+ community myself, I was disturbed to find out the age gap in this movie. Especially because Elio is literally a minor. He might be smart, he might be intelligent but he's not as mature as an adult. But what I dislike even more about this movie is Elio's complete obsession and how it's romanticised. We are supposed to root for this relationship, but it's extremely unhealthy. If instead of this we got a movie or a book, that's about two teens in the 90s, madly in love with each other, trying to suppress their feelings because of how other people might react, with both points of view, I would be so happy. It's still realistic, gay people couldn't express their feelings and keep them in back in the day. But this movie is overfilled with lust and unhealthy points.
This video is another case of someone trying to come of as an expert...she failed. If you want an accurate opinion on it would be best to avoid this persons RUclips channel
Don’t even want to hear a discussion of age difference. Love is Acceptance of what IS rather than what one WANTS, and is a mature way to drink the apricot nectar from the Perlman’s orchard.
I'm sorry but age gaps have been happening for thousands of years. All over the world. Yes he was 17 but he was very mature for his age. Would it be any different if it was a few months later when he was 18?
I feel like the entire thing was instigated by elio, and oliver downright told him no like 5 times before they were together that they shouldn't do anything but elio kept pressing. I think, given the maturity and intelligence of elio, he knew what the scenario looked like and wasn't pressured into anything at all, rather he was the one hellbent on trying to influence oliver. If it was the other way around then get the mf police on this groomer, but since it's built up by elio I kind of understand it. It's still very uncomfortable, but I don't feel like anything immoral was done without both of them understanding fully what it meant
Reality is as a teenager 17 years old we fall in love or have a puppy love and in our heart there is no age bracket where to put it. Let be that experience be and remember Oliver did not go there in Crema just for a latte and he did not jump into Elio for sex until they both fall in love. A friend of mine is complaining too why Elio is having sex with a Peach. Hello.. Other used vegetables and I try but maybe Peach is much better.
Elio was gay, going to be gay. His whole character type shows us this. His music, his intelligence, his ways.....Whereas Oliver was closeted gay. In his world he had to marry and lead a straight life. They met, fell in love and this heartbreaking love story showed us how Elio pursued Oliver. Oliver hung back - was so afraid to show his true self. A 7 year age gap is nothing. Had Oliver been 17 years older then it might have been a concern.
@@sallystake4225 I just recently saw this movie 3 times. I am a very mature adult over 30yr old. Eliot would had not been that much more mature at 18yrs old. I would had been a little uncomfortable if he was 16yrs, but 17 and 18 are pretty much the same as far as maturity levels. I also can accept that I am basing being uncomfortable from a United States point of view. I did consider that laws in Italy are different, while watching this movie. For you to judge this as not being morally right is insulting the entire country of Italy. I doubt they just chose age 14 as consenting without good reasoning. Eliot's friends acted pretty mature for their age. Plus, it is a movie and too many people are taking it too literal. Too literal to the point of not realizing that it is a great relatable movie. It is about a summer romance that was not going to make it pass summer due to their circumstances. The age gap is only one of the circumstances but too many people dwell on that instead of looking at the entire movie for what it is. A love story, Everyone I know who has experience a summer fling, thought they were in love. Most people have experienced heart break. And to anyone who believes that this one movie represents the entire LGBT community, get some diversity in your life. That is like thinking the movie Pretty Woman is every woman's Cinderella story. One more thing, to me, the 7yr age gap is a problem because of where the characters are in their lives. Oliver has graduated high school, undergrad, graduate, and visited other parts of the world. Eliot is just now discovering a potential life outside of his family.
@@sallystake4225 Your argument doesn't make sense. It is legal, end of discussion. 17 is year from war, so if a dude can go to war, he can sure screw anyone he wants.
@@Zorish373 That’s the point tho, yes it is legal, but when does legalizing equal being morally good or neutral. Laws and morals are two different things. For example, if murder was legal, would you believe killing someone is to be okay then, just cause it’s legal? Or what if rape was allowed in a country, would that all of a sudden be morally acceptable because it has been legalized?
I think people evaluate the story in the wrong way, focusing on what are the least important subjects of the movie. Also a man or a gay man’s perspective could perhaps give a better funded opinion.
I don't think their relationship, age got not even considered, is intended to be healthy. It's just an exploration of that all consuming bond that exists sometimes between two people. Heck the reason they don't work out is partly because the age gap makes it impossible as their current lives are too different.
People don't become magically different once they turn 18 compared to 6 months ago when they were 17. There are power imbalances in most relationships, either age, or finance, or maturity, life experience, intelligence, social power etc. The age gap and power balance isn't enough for me to find it problematic in a fiction book.
YES 100%
Even so, the movie isn't the problem, it's all the perverts watching it and romanticizing it.
@@TothanCrawk I agree with that but I don’t think it’s a big enough criticism to be defining the movie as “problematic”
@@emilyjones1 it is when you have the director referring to them as a "convincing hot couple" the energy he went into this alone is problematic.
@@TothanCrawk And they use the cosmodore excuse of stating the consent laws in countries as if that mattered.
I never considered their age gap to be healthy. I see the movie more as a coming of age story and find it realistic. Especially in the way Timothee Chalamet portrayed Elios immaturity. Such power imbalances and age gaps exist. Especially at that age. But I am a 24 year old psychology student. I agree with you on the point that the film should have shown more critique from Elios parents regarding the age gap to show also younger viewers that it is not a healthy relationship. Because they probably won't understand yet.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I think the running theme of immature first love is much more prevalent than one of a mature romance and that's what hpw I've always seen it. It's amazing and rare to have families that support homosexuality but I don't think it's even the focus here. Family should be supportive of their child regardless but this is an example of extreme situations were adults have to protect their child🤷🏽♀️ I think a lot of people got caught up in romanticizing the film and I see that done with a lot of LGBT couples actually. A lot of people romanticize gay couples to the point where they dehumanize them. I think we must understand that all of these people are human and we should treat them as such, and a 17 year old being with a 24 yo is just not acceptable
In my case the gap didn't have such relevance because I assume the diferencies between cultures, that maybe in Italy that kind of relationship is not a big deal. e.g. In Mexico it really common a big gap in relationships (actually there's a song that talks about it, named " 40 & 20" and yes is about what u think) sooooo with that in mind... i know that if something is common, doesn't make it right or healthy. Now i see that difference as something "common but not right". I dont' know how much the people feels that this is making "right" this kind of relationship or is just like something that happens and thats it :/
@@blicknikk5185 We can only assume a loooot of things about this situation, i'm with you that's not ok by any means a relationship with a minor. In this case we can pretend that it was not that "dangerous" but in real life that's not the case. So we can romanticize the relationship and be nuts about the beauty of the film, but not ignoring that it's a very delicate situation. Besides all depends on the culture. . . but again that something is cool in a culture doesn't make it right.
Remember that the age of consent in 31 of the states of America is currently 16, in France it is 15, Italy it is 14, and these are by no means unusual. Many well known heterosexual people were 17 or younger when they formed relationships or married. Romeo was set at 16 Juliet at 13 in the play ( deemed one of the greatest love stories) Ava gardener married at 17, so did Demi Moore, Marilyn Monroe was 16 and there are many more examples where age gaps were greater than the 6 years in CMBYN. Oh but maybe you object to two men having a relationship at that age. So less ageist than sexist?
@@johnblaine1479 you clearly didnt get my point. I wouldnt mind if it was a heterosexual couple (no matter which partner is older) or a queer one. The only point is that such relationships can have an unhealthy power and experience imbalance. And Romeo and Juliet are really a weird example, I never found that very romantic, just two dramatic teenagers. And I would not compare it to relationships of celebrities I don't know but to relationships of for example classmates I experienced when I was younger (that were hetero by the way and one time the partner was a mich older woman, the other time an older man but that really does not matter here). The point is the power imbalance, that those relationships had and the extreme influence, the older partners had on the other one. That must not be the case. All I am saying is that the film lacks any sort of critique regarding that point, especially from the parents.
The age gap bothered me and I think it was a casting mistake as well, 17 to 24 is a significant gap, but Armie Hammer was not 24, he was 30 and looks 30, while Timothy Chalamet was 22 but looks 14 or 15 to me. If I wrote the book I would have contested that casting.
Hammer looked like he was in his later 30's. He looked old enough to be the boy's father.
Definitely, they look at least 15 years apart. I think Armie looks about 35 and Timothee could be 15 easily. Maybe even younger
This is such a great video! When i read the book i found it very disturbing and was shocked that so many people idolize the relationship and think it's okay.
you are missing the whole point, it is not about approving, or right and wrong ... the story is an emotional journey about a boy coming of age... a boy who desperately falls in love at that age and is hormonal and horny ... When you are 17, your body is fully sexual even though you are told you are too young, you don't care about consequences you want to fall in love, get laid and think of sex all the time, because it is our nature ... The story deals with these issues and is telling the truth about it rather than pretending to be a moral guide!
It IS ok - so many straight people have an age gap bigger
The video is far from perfect. I'm sorry but how could you have read the books and agree when she says that "Oliver seemed to be more confident and secure" about his sexuality? In the book it is literally implied that Oliver isn't really confident about his bisexuality when he envies Elio for having supporting parents...which indicates that he (Oliver) is conflicted in some way by his sexuality...right? It understand it isn't in the movie, but the unsureness and shyness of both of the caracaters (especially Oliver considering Elio is actually the one to make moves first) shows through multiple times. Also, lots of people don't actually idolize the relationship itself (meaning, I don't think everyone suddenly want 17 years old to have romantic relationships with 24 years old), but rather the intricate depiction and the nuanced emotions that are present in the flm. Love doesn't always follow the same narrative and we have to be aware of that.
I knew of the age gap before I watched the movie and I couldn’t finish it after the peach scene it felt so awkward and weird since one of them is 17 It felt like it romanticised it
I knew of the age gap before I watched the movie and I couldn’t finish it after the peach scene it felt so awkward and weird since one of them is 17 It felt like it romanticised it
Just because something is legal or societally accepted doesn't mean it's moral or right. I see people talking about how it's just something American's won't be able to get, and like, sure. I'll admit. I'm pretty ignorant about a lot of things, and I dunno what it's like to be a European or grow up there. But I do know what it's like to be sexually groomed by an adult as a teenager, and I know the damaging emotional effects it can leave on a person. There will always be an unfair power dynamic in those relationships regardless of who propositioned who. Adults should know better, and teenagers don't even have fully formed brains.
If you evaluate ANY relationship in terms of "power dynamics," you will find inequalities. In this case, I am not sure which of the two had more "power." Elio's parents knew about the relationship, and supported it. What, in your estimation, was wrong with the relationship?
Okay sweetheart. 1. "Unfair power dynamic" ~ there's a power dynamic between parents and children worldwide, does it mean all parent-child relationships are bad? No.
"Just because something is legal or societally accepted doesn't mean it's moral or right" ~ morals are subjective, there is no right and wrong, in some situations even you'll bend your own morals.
"The damaging emotional effects it can leave on a person" ~ there's actually been a small small research on this when debating why is pedophilia morally wrong. Some people who have been been intimate as children with adults were not damaged by it at all(not saying all is not damaging, just showing how much of society's power we let in, the research even showed children who were not terrified in the act but got bad once they grew up and "understood" from society's point of view, an analogy: a child who's been raised by a single mother in an area where it is accepted to have only a mother, no effects. Vs a child who's been raised by a single mother and lived amongst happily married parents of other children, severely effected.
"Adults should know better, teenagers don't have fully formed brains" sorry to let you know but your brain isn't matured/reached adulthood until the 30s(hence why 18 yo don't magically change into the final character), not legally, biologically.
And yes you are ignorant
Exactly, ignore these people replying to you, there the ignorant ones, just because Elio parents supported it doesn't make it okay, f*ck both them. Morals are subjective either, if r*pe or z**philia is legal or the age of consent is 6 in a country, would that be a subjective moral? No.
The thing is, wide age gaps are extremely common amongst the gay community. As long as the two partners are consenting (which they were) then it is what it is. The damaging affects that Elio faced later was not due to the age but rather the fierceness of his and Oliver’s love.
The age gap would not be a problem if Elio were 20 and Oliver was 27, but 17 and 24 is a big deal...especially when Elio's parents bring you into their home to work professionally and you end up sleeping with their underage son who (I believe) is manipulated by Oliver and then disposed of.
Who is he manipulated by Oliver?
Hugh???
@@ivannaramirez4069 Elio obviously.
@@victoriakappel9159 ohh sorry I meant how 😅
Not at all. And you should read the book.
I really wanted to love the film but elio is too young to be with a 24 year old. No matter how smart he is, he is still a kid.
I'm thinking the same thing.
His being 17 has a lot to do with his being "in love" with Oliver.It's easy to idolize someone who's older at that age.
you are missing the whole point, it is not about approving, or right and wrong ... the story is an emotional journey about a boy coming of age... a boy who desperately falls in love at that age and is hormonal and horny ... When you are 17, your body is fully sexual even though you are told you are too young, you don't care about consequences you want to fall in love, get laid and think of sex all the time, because it is our nature ... The story deals with these issues and is telling the truth about it rather than pretending to be a moral guide!
@@Berndr yesss
And the films shows how overwhelmed he is by the vomiting that occurs . It’s too much for him
Not everything has to be endlessly evaluated in terms of power dynamics. The two lovers loved, the parents supported the love, and the love was beautiful. No one was mistreated. Why can't the beauty of their love simply be celebrated?
Thank you - why does it have to always come down to numbers. Like if all I have to do to make the realationsip ok is say Élio is 20 it’s not strong criticism.
Thank you please tell this to mylife23 who is hell bent on calling this a pedophile situation. It’s not like elio is a child.... very well written Aristotle.
The 13 and 19 year old loved, the parents celebrated and their love was beautiful. No one was mistreated, why can't beauty of love be celebrating - love that involves a underage and adult person shouldn't be celebrated. Same with minors with a big age gap.
@@Lemoncakelover678 But they were not 13 and 19. They were consenting adults. Elio wasn't underage by the mores of his society, nor by the mores of forty-one states in the USA, nor by the mores of most civilizations throughout the ages. Stop hyperventilating and let love be love.
@@aristotleemerson3248 17 ain't a adult, it's a teenager. I don't care about the consent laws, quit using the cosmodore excuse, that doesn't make it okay. I'm not hyperventilating, I'm just using your logic and use a similar age gap involving a minor with an adult. And this ain't love, this is a adult taking advantage of a minor, it's disgusting, stop excusing this.
I appreciate your comments. As the long time partner of a man 14 years older than myself I can tell you that simple match ☹️doesn’t tell the whole story. I always felt these were two equals feeling their way forward. As it is, Elio was comfortable enough to discuss his love with his father. Oliver could never do that the dynamic of familia love plays a strong role. The book does a better job of unpacking this. And the both is one o7t of three stories that dissect love and need down to the bone. 😀
The fact that Armie Hammer got exposed for the stuff he did kinda recently doesn't surprise me after he said that the age of consent determines if a relationship is okay or not...
@Paoo 💋 yeah.. on Twitter he responded to people who had an issue with the age difference in call me by your name and said that the reason why it's okay is because at the time in Italy, the age of consent was 14 so therefore it was fine, really gross
By definition, the age of consent determines if a relationship is "OK" in the sense that "OK" means legal. What's wrong with the love between the two characters, in your estimation?
@@aristotleemerson3248 did you not watch the video
@@gilkot4633 you are, of course, joking. He's asking for your opinion.
@@aristotleemerson3248 why don't you take a seat right over there
When I was a young 17 year old gay guy, I only liked guys in their 20’s. When I first read this book in 2009, I fell in love with the story, the characters, Oliver! Lol
Things were different back then but now it just seems like people are more and more sensitive about these kinds of topics. My mom and dad are 13 years apart!!!
I think this has more to do with soul recognition vs age. Personal opinion.
I don't have issues with age gaps like 7 years if both people are adults with the same level of maturity. I have issues with one of them being a minor. If they're both grown adults like in their 20's it's fine but a minor? Wtf no
@@dustone8542 Human brains aren't even fully developed until age 25 and there's a difference in maturity between 17 and 20. Most people aren't hardly mature enough to be considered adults by 18. 17 is still a minor in most eyes. I don't mean minor as in small child, I mean so maturity wise.
Also the age gap was kind of common on the 80’s
the actors arent 17 its just the movie and book my friend, and its realism.
@@tannorhighroller7517
Glad actual minors weren't involved in making this. It's not artistic. It's a grown ass adult taking advantage of a child and that's sick and fucking disgusting.
@@tannorhighroller7517
Do not call me your friend.
Uhm how is this video not popular? It's so well made, good content and opinions and good quality altogether. I think I'm gonna subscribe
This is so sweet , thank you so much
I cannot understand how anybody who has watched this movie can think Oliver "groomed" Elio, or tries to compare it to "Lolita." Elio went after Oliver with a hunger for something he desperately wanted, while Oliver tried to keep his distance. Before they gave in to their mutual attractions, and their relationship ultimately became sexual, Oliver's first concern was for Elio: "Are you okay?" And he spent the next morning regretting that he might have hurt Elio or done something Elio didn't want.
That is not grooming, and it is about as opposite of "Lolita" as it can possibly be. Humbert is in his forties while Lolita is twelve years old. That's a 30+ year difference. Lolita hated Humbert and tried for three years to run away from him. That is nothing at all similar to how Elio and Oliver relate to each other. Elio wanted this. It's obvious from such comments who has not read and understood "Lolita" that they would make such a comparison. Can anyone who says Oliver "groomed" Elio provide an example of it from either the movie or the book, or demonstrate how it is similar to "Lolita" with examples?
In order to be a fan of this book you just have to excuse the grooming and p*do manifestations. The author of the book themself admitted to being attracted to 12 yo's, like the call is coming from inside the house, and to see people just excuse it is uck! Sure, let's say it's not Oliver's fault that a younger boy fell for him and he just couldn't help the attraction, but because he tried to deny it tHaT's NoT gRoOmInG. Like yes the power imbalance, the setting, the DENIAL all makes this grooming.
Also "Elio wanted this" I'm sorry but he's a minor, he can't want anything legally. He's not a consenting adult with a fully developed brain.
As a generalized example, a young girl may have a crush on an adult man, she may chase after him but it is the responsibility of the adult man to reject her because she is a minor. The second he develops some sort of attraction, he is a pedophile or a NOMAP as you will. He is disgusting. Oliver is disgusting.
Let me elaborate, Oliver is disgusting. The responsibility of an adult is to reject romantic affections and connections from minors. The reason Oliver feels this overwhelming theme of shame is because he failed to do so at moral and legal expense.
@@tooshnah3169 Elio is not a minor. He is past the age of consent in Italy, France, Spain, Germany, the UK and also the US. You are basically saying that if he and Oliver had waited another few months until Elio was 18, then it would have been OK?
The author's interests have nothing to do with the fictional characters. If that were so then you would have to say the same about other writers and artists and their creations: Thomas Mann, Tchaikovsky, Goethe, Michelangelo, among others.
@@charlesdarnay5455 The age of consent in Japan is 13. Therefore 13 year olds get to make that choice, despite the logical/decision making part of their brain (The prefrontal cortex) not even being half way through the development process. Some laws are absolutely horrendous.
Personally I define a minor as one who's prefrontal cortex has not yet reached 50% of development. Understandably this stage of development starts to happen around the ages of 18-19. Either way, even after the age of 18, the decision part of the brain is still developing. Individuals at this stage can still be easily manipulated and swayed especially when there's a power dynamic involved (like an age gap).
I also don't believe in the concept of separating the artist from the art. That lacks total accountability. It enables people who've committed terrible acts to escape vital consequence.
In short, yes. Waiting a few months could have been the difference between Elios choice being more his own, than Oliver's.
Yeah, it's low-key problematic and it probably shouldn't be held up as 'that one gay movie' as much as it is.
Adults and teens shouldn’t be in intimate relationships
That's debatable.
The entire movie, I think, is an tale of how unsafe young LGBTQIA+ people are in LGBTQIA+ spaces, at least how they were unsafe. Due to their young sexual and romantic experiences - that cishets get to experience - being confined or hidden due to societal bigotry and homophobia. They can only relate to older LGBTQIA+ members leading to large age gaps and grooming without mainstream and societal support.
Good take!
The kind of pedophilic propaganda a NAMbLA member would support
But this movie does not even tackle the traditional LGBT+ ideology. Its shot through a historic lens been replayed in a happier key within a utopic world where the men are free to express their queer desires without having to carry the pain of social impediments.
this video was so aesthetic pleasing to watch! great editing and a good view of the film
What a load of nonsense. Elio is 17 and over the age of consent in Italy in 1983. Oliver is 25. Only eight years difference. No body has a problem with hetero couples having age differences, and those who do haven't noticed much about human relationships in their time on Earth. There is nothing at all morally wrong with this film. Yes, Elio is naïve and finding himself as an adult and a sexual being. How wonderfully life affirming. It is about two young men who find each other sexually attractive and fall in love. For his own personal reasons, and the film shows his joy at being able to explore and enjoy his own homosexuality, Oliver goes back to America and gets married. Shit happens. A lot of gay men have gotten married to women because of societal, familial or religious pressure. It shows a complete lack of imagination, not to mention empathy to not understand the deep bond these two men had for each other, however brief it was at the time, and the personal pressures that Oliver felt he was under. We should appreciate it for the beauty of what it is - not for what you would like it be. The father's famous speech is one of the greatest expressions of love and support from a father to a gay son in the history of cinema, and I'm sure a lot of LGBTQI plus people would like to have had that speech said to them by their father or mother. So look, and listen, to a film that is important on so many levels. And if you want to know more read the sequel novel Find Me, and you'll find out what happens to Elio and Oliver...
You’re so correct
They end up together again and I love it
They’re so amazing together
OK GROOMER
@@liampatrick3110 Thanks for you discerning intellectual input
Cody ko: this guy gets it!
The age of consent in my country is 14, and at this age I had an affair with a 23-year-old man. For years I thought there was nothing wrong with it, because it was not illegal and besides I was the one who took the initiative, but now that I am older, I realize how inappropriate it was, as not only was there a 9 year difference, but I was also an inexperienced teenage girl with a rather immature capacity for discernment, and there was therefore an imbalance of power. So no, whether it is legal or not has nothing to do with what is morally right.
The video is so well made and so articulate. It expresses everything I felt and it is so in point.
Also, for me, the age gap is really not the issue. My family is full of happy/healthy couples with an age gap of 7+ plus years, the issue is how Elio is a teenager with no experience and has a high school crush on Oliver, and Oliver is this traveling, flirting, arrogant, and well-read, 24-year-old Ph.D. student who is almost hostile initially. An 18 year Elio and a 22 year Oliver wouldn't have been that big of a deal. I mean Jay and Gloria are a "normal couple", Elio and Oliver are just wasted potential.
You make an interesting point. The main issue with this couple is the immaturity and lack of experience on Elio's end and Oliver kind of taking advantage of that.
@@sallystake4225 so by your definition even if both are 30s but one is virgin and the other a pimp then the pimp is just taking advantage of a virgin?
@@dubizingler1548 The logic they are applying is in the case of a MINOR and an ADULT.
@@dubizingler1548 ALSO by definition a pimp is someone who takes advantage of women so yes.
the editing in this video is honestly beautiful
Side note I just wanna thank you for the subtitles 💞💞 they really help a lot and not all people on RUclips make them, so whenever I stumble upon a video of someone who has them I feel very thankful.
awww thank you for your support, I will make sure to include them in all my videos 💌
I was interested to hear your thoughts on this movie. I felt uncomfortable with the central relationship when I first watched it. People have pointed out that part of the problem is the perceived ages of the characters. Oliver in particular looks considerably older than mid twenties. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a 7 year age gap, for me it was more to do with Oliver abusing his position within the family home. He was a guest/employee of the parents. We hardly see anything to suggest he does much work, so it’s easy to forget this aspect. As a gay man, I have experienced both sides of age gap relationships. When I was 17 I took my first steps to coming out in a relationship with an older man. At the time it felt unproblematic, but looking back on it now, I see it differently. Years later, when I was 30 I fell for a guy 10 years younger, but still considerably older than Elio, and while it was wildly romantic and exciting, it was also frustrating and ultimately catastrophic. The heartbreak was intense. I fully appreciate that for many people age gaps of 7 years or more work out just fine, but for me it was a bit triggering, and (as you pointed out) there was no discussion between them- whereas in my reality there are always long conversations. I ended up not liking Oliver very much because, putting myself in his position, I would have behaved very differently. Had it been a huge love affair then I would have been happier, but ultimately what stopped them continuing their relationship after the Summer? This highlighted to me that it was infatuation and a need on Elios part to find an appropriate outlet for his feelings towards men, and a need to experience sexual love. It just wasn’t a great love story for me. The straw that broke the camel’s back for me was the way that Elios parents behaved. I can’t believe any parent would be unconcerned about what was happening in their house. They seemed fine with Elio being gay, fantastic, good for them, I’m sure all gay children wish they had that, but they seem so detached, just observing. This was their child. They didn’t know Oliver that well, and inevitably they had to pick up the pieces afterwards. Again, where were the conversations checking in with Elio. There is a big difference between being accepting of your child’s developing sexuality, and being completely unconcerned about them. Surely they had a parental responsibility to ensure Oliver wasn’t abusing his position and the power balance?
Everything you said sir ‘ n Oliver knew he was out of line because he asked Elio “ are you gonna tell
On me”
The age gap is one thing if they were 20 to 27 but he is 17 years old a teenager and that’s not cool - Oliver was absolutely in control - he took advantage . Because he could because he had more experience
Could you explain this to me in more detail? Older men and women have always tried to date me, but I've always ignored them. I don't want to fall into their traps ever again
I LOVED CMBYN when I first watched it. And the second time. And the third time. But then the fourth time, I found myself thinking "hmm... something's not sitting well with me here." I think for me, personally, it's not the age gap that bothers me so much; often 24 year old men aren't much more mature than 17 year old boys. For me, in the film, it's the casting. Timmy looks like a gangly 16 year old youth, but Armie (gorgeous as he is) could pass as a man of 32. And that doesn't feel right to me; they don't visually fit together. But that's just me and my opinion.
@@heirloom906 Gay men? ELIO is a teenager and has a WOMAN as a mother as well. You're lying if you're attempting to say that armies hammer looking 40 wasn't on purpose.
@@livelovely4681 Wait a minute. Are you saying Oliver looks 40? You need to clean your glasses.
... gay or straight, someone who looks 30 should not be hooking up with someone who looks 16. What kind of grown person (gay or straight) wants to have sex with a kid? Geez there's a name for that kind of person... what is it? 🤔 And if you don't agree with me, imagine someone not as hot as Armie Hammer in that role.
@@heirloom906 Heirloom
Love is boundless and bountiful
Imagine the exact same movie with an heterosexual couple, the girl being the younger. It would be read plainly as an ephebophilliac fantasy. "Oh but what if they were the one's who started it". "Their pops are ok with it". "I was so confused too". Couple that with the book's author's problematic remarks about attractive 12 y/o. It only gets a free pass because it deals with a gay couple, and we don't care about male sexual abuse half as much as we care about female abuse.
This! Thank you so much for bringing this up! In the gay community it has become almost normalized for older men to hit on younger guys. Ever since I joined dating apps as a young guy, I have been constantly hit up by men in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc. Obviously much older than a 18 year old and It is utterly disgusting and sad. I don't see enough portrayal of real gay love or enough role models of gay marriages. It is as if the entire community is only here to have sex and no responsibilities, with obvious few exceptions.
dirty dancing is the exact same ages and no one had any issue with it. bad comment
@@TheFantasticFordy there's a 30 year age gap between the two movies. Sexual mores have shifted, at least for heterosexual couples.
@@uncanalmenor so you're wrong then
@@TheFantasticFordy so your comment is anachronic and irrelevant.
Thank you someone else finally said something. My issue isn't an age gap, it's an age group with a minor. My issue isn't that it's an lgbtq couple, but my issue is that if this was a straight couple people would be saying this is a predatory relationship and rightfully so. When did we get to the point that lgbtq kids apparently are not kids just because their sexuality? I don't care what you identify with I don't care who you are but there is no justification for coming in somebody's house and having a sexual relationship with someone's 17-year-old kid when you are a grown adult man or woman. And the fact that the author made it seem like it was a good thing or okay and the fact that everyone is romanticizing it is honestly so gross to me.
Well that's simply because you are viewing the film through the schools of realism when Luca Guadagnino has precisely declared several times that such a film is to be seen through a school of idealism and has certain philosophical, historic and cultural elements attached that assert the immateriality of age and sexuality in the blissful romance forged between Elio and Oliver.
@@tedmink7568I would argue that it sits on the fence between realism and idealism. Setting it in the 80s roots it in a reality.
And for me, it wasn’t a great romance, it was a summer fling, an obsession, a crush. They were 2 conflicted characters. Oliver seems uncertain of his sexuality, and Elio is expressing his for the first time. For me, it was 2 people experimenting with each other, which is fine, but it’s dressed up as some idyllic grand passion. Surely if they truly loved each other they would try to continue after the summer in some way, but Oliver knows that outside of their little bubble, in the real world, things would seem very different.
@@sandrew255 That is where the film's idealism and philosophical narrative steps in. The name exchange that takes place between Elio and Oliver is a reference to the Split-Soul theorem contained within the Speech of Aristophanes in Plato’s Symposium that describes a theory behind soul mates...Two Humans, irrespective age or gender, were connected to each other and later dispelled into the real world where their souls were shared and each subject was destined on a life-long journey to search for each other and reconcile their millenary bond. Elio and Oliver, according to this philosophy are soul mates who have found each other and thereby when Elio calls Oliver Elio he is addressing his other half and when Oliver calls Elio Oliver he is addressing his other half (The Unity of Soul Mates).
Another example of why children should not be sent to review movies made by and for adults. There is nothing wrong or immoral about the supposed age gap. Why do Americans insist on applying their puritanical morals to the rest of the world? The age of consent in Italy at the time was 14. Elio is three years past that. Americans need to get over themselves and their double standards.
No, I don’t think people would’ve been anymore comfortable if Elio was 18. I think it’s the fact that 17 and 24 are such different places in your life your brain is so much more developed at 24 and you have so much more life experience than at 17. No matter how mature you are your brain is still less developed because the mind doesn’t stop forming until 25 and the part that’s still forming is the part that involves decision making.
However I do still think it was a beautiful movie and as I’m reading the book it is even more so. But that’s my take on the whole thing.
@@aloe1073 And yet, people watch "Dirty Dancing" where Jennifer Grey and Patrick Swayze are the same ages there as Elio and Oliver here: 17 and 24. But nobody complains about that age difference, it is apparently acceptable and viewed as a romantic coming of age story. So why the double standard?
Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s not immoral. 14 is very young. Still in middle school, in fact. You’re disgusting if you think that’s okay. The mental damages that leaves on a young person is evident. Culture doesn’t change science. Culture can be immoral and wrong.
@@briannabrittany3127 I have no idea I’ve never watched dirty dancing. I don’t know the context and I don’t know what’s going on but I don’t agree with 17 and 24 as an age gap no matter where it occurred. However it was filmed and MADE in the 80’s when people weren’t as aware as to why that’s problematic perhaps?
And before it’s mentioned in aware that cmbyn was set in the 80’s it was written and filmed in the 2000’s and 2010’s when people had more knowledge as to why that is not ok.
Again as I have not watched dirty dancing I am not biased towards it. And I don’t know why people have the double standard but I don’t I’m not people I’m Aloe and I think 17 and 24 is not an acceptable age gap, full stop.
Where is your proof that in counries where the age of consent is younger than you'd like, that their population is mentally damaged? Sweden, Holland, Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Spain, etc etc all seem to have better sexually educated young people than the USA, with lower rates of abortion and STDs. Maybe the younger age of consent, coupled with better and earlier sex education, gives younger people a more adult perspective, and sooner.
‘He’s still experimenting with fruits’ 😂🤣😂🤣 pmsl
The shade of it all 😂😂
As an Italian, we don't care for the age gap, age of consent here is very low which is a problem for many people but if you meet a 17 year old here, he's practically gonna act the same in their 20s. I've met people who sqated 16 year olds at 18/19, and we didn't care cause neither of them we're mature enough to live alone. No one becomes a baby at 17 and master oogway at 18, thats just ridiculous.
No one is saying 17 year old act like babies, just that they don't have the full understanding and consent to give to a adult
@@Lemoncakelover678 But suddenly on their 18th birthday they automatically have that full understanding?
@@charlesdarnay5455 they don’t. they still are technically teens but society views them as adults. people only fully develop at 25.
Appreciate the brave take on this topic considering how controversial it actually is. Content wise, it’s packed but not too rushy or scattered considering it’s under 11 minutes. Although I would appreciate it if you could provide other examples of LGBTQ+ movies that portrays the same issue such as Bloomington and For A Lost Soldier.
thanks for the comment. I'll include more examples next time :')
I'm so tired of this "cancellation" thing. People HAVE GOT TO STOP finding a problem with eveeerythinnng!
It's set in the 80s. It wasn't a problem back then.
And depending on the part of the world you live it may even not be a problem now.
But back to the cancellation thing. Its getting out of control. Wanting to "cancel" things that are really old. Life before was different, period. And now we realize what things were wrong and we change them, and that's it. We can't erase the past. We learn from it and move on.
Yeah and slavery "wasn't a problem" 200 years ago but I'm sure you still have an issue with it
Facts though
For example the age gap to me is perfectly fine
They love each other and that’s it
It’s not a big deal
I loved the movie
I do understand the problem that the age gap might initially seem, I think that's kind of the point of the film; like, Oliver is a pretty manipulative character and making them have that age gap is a deliberate choice by the director to show how Oliver treated Elio (someone much younger than him) cruelly and was pretty conniving. I think it's more a deliberate choice to show the effect of that happening on someone younger, in this case, Elio. But I do appreciate it's not stated super explicitly in the film, and obviously, that's just my opinion. Still very well-made and thoughtful vid tho :)
I am sorry but having spoken to the director himself, none of what you say is true. There were no ulterior motives behind Oliver's role. And anything regarding age is far beyond and irrelevant to the film and its "point".
There is nothing wrong with the age gap. Speaking from a young gay man who dates an older man.
Let me know when that goes wrong. I'll be here if you need someone to talk to.
Not a problem if you ask me: Love is a Function of the Mind.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who detests this movie. It's the story of a textbook manipulator destroying a naive young man's life and personality. It's not a love story. What Oliver does to Elio is just terrible. By playing fast and loose with him he makes Elio obsess about him to the point that he mistreats his girlfriend after having taken her virginity, and this is only one of the many iniquities he committs. I wrote an entire essay once about how sick and dysfunctional the whole dynamic between them is. It's a long text.
The age gap is not the problem. Oliver would still be a terrible person if Elio was older. Like all manipulators, what he wants is power over his victim. He doesn't fancy Elio because he's pretty but because everybody lets him behave without any kind of consideration towards anyone, except for Elio, who initially is wary about him; so Oliver wants him to look up to him the way everybody does, and plays cats and mouse with him until the hapless Elio only has eyes for him.
Elio's family and even his ex girlfriend are supportive. Homosexuality is no longer illegal in Italy since 1890. These two are not star-crossed. For Oliver it was just a summer fling, then he just went on to marry his girlfriend, of whom he had never talked. And Elio's father doesn't have the nerve to tell him to forget about that scumbag and find himself a decent and loyal partner next time. (Whom he already had in Marzia, by the way. And he enjoyed sex with her.)
Elio didn't need Oliver. He was fine, just growing and a little immature. In the end, his life and personalty is crushed, we don't see him enjoy his intellectual activities any more, he feels pain any time someone says his name. And 95 % of the viewers insist on how romantic and poetic this movie is. God-awful.
If you want a really convincing, healthy, inspiring same-sex love story, watch "Red, White and Royal Blue." Or "Maurice". Or "Beautiful Thing". Anything but this.
You are so right. I think people get seduced by the beauty of the cinematography, the score, the setting, and the actors, and that makes it easy to romanticize it, but in reality, this is a cautionary tale. We see the damage it does to the younger and more vulnerable character, and no one in this scenario protected him. It's a tragedy, ultimately.
@@bdml77 I'm with both of you. I found the movie to be extremely uncomfortable knowing the age gap. I've been aware of the film for years, but never realized that Elio is 17 and Oliver is 24 until after a friend of mine (who happens to be pansexual) recommended the film to me (a heterosexual guy).
It goes without saying that the fact the film depicts a gay relationship is NOT the issue at all. It does not make me uncomfortable. What makes me uncomfortable is the age gap and my friend never mentioned before I watched the film. I had a debate about it with my friend back in January and the defenses he gave were really... concerning.
He would say things like "It was a different time!" and "Their relationship is the exception, not the rule."
One time he said "The age of consent in Italy is 14." and I responded by saying "And you think that makes it okay? Neither of them are even American." and my friend said: "Elio's Italian-American."
Riiiiiiiight. That somehow makes it better.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I also don't buy the argument of people claiming their relationship was intentionally written to be toxic because the author wrote a sequel novel of Elio and Oliver getting back together. The film also never ADDRESSES the age gap at all. The film also would not be automatically fixed if Elio was aged up to 18. It would still be creepy because there is barely any difference in maturity between a 17 year old and an 18 year old.
it’s very clear who read the book and the sequel in this comment section and who didn’t
I really admire how you brought up each point, pro and con, then defended it in an extremely rational, balanced manner. I haven't seen the movie yet, but have seen a lot of clips as well as the interviews with the director and cast. I think I might read the book first, then see the film. GREAT job with this!
Thank you!
In the movie Dirty dancing The female character is 17 and the guy 24 and nobody saw it as a problem then and not now. OB the contrary, It’s a classic Love story. We don’t see videos talking about the the age gap problematic. I wonder if It’s because is a heterossexual couple?
i think it's cos that movie was made 30 years ago and a lot of things in 80s films are deemed problematic today. but I agree that the dirty dancing couple was also messed up, any adult relationship with a teenager is messed up. I also think people pick up on this movie because of the casting choices - elio looks so young in comparison to oliver (who looks 30+), whilst in other movies the actors are of similar ages so it's not too obvious
The heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nothing (Blaise Pascal).
Just saying 7 years is not that big of a gap to be alarming. My parents have that gap and are happily married for 28 years.
Age gaps aren't the problem, it's the fact Elio is a teen and Oliver is an adult.
@@Lemoncakelover678 So if the story had happened one year later when Elio is 18, everything would have been fine?
I think people don't have an issue with the age gap if both are adults, the problem here is one is still minor and under-aged!
@@charlesdarnay5455 ethically probably not, but at least in that case it's two consenting adults and it's not telling literal children and teenagers that it's okay to get involved in relationships with grown men and women.
@@rayofsunshineb5347 As a 17 year old, Elio was already past the age of consent both in Italy, most of Europe and most of the USA.
Could we please stop to make a problem out of EVERYTHING! The Age Gap between my boyfriend and I is 5 years so please, stop it. The movie is about two people falling in love with each other and that’s about it.
my problem is with the aesthetic. Timothee looked 16.. Armee looked almost 40. Their real age during filming was not as big. 20 vs 29 (i was shocked by this).
40??Hahah, in your dreams will you look like this when you are 40
Oliver doesn't look 24 ! He looks so much older
Disgusting
That does not change the story's details.
(1) I like this video. You make some good points. Thank you for sharing. (2) I agree with some of what you say about the Oliver-Elio relationship. Oliver looks like he's about 30. Elio appears to be about half that age, maybe. (When Call Me By Your Name was filmed, Armie Hamer was 30; Tim Chalamet was 21.)
I am pretty sure that people who have problems with the age gap in CMBYN can watch Dirty Dancing and don't blink an eye about the age gap there. In that movie Baby (Jennifer Grey) is 18 yrs old, while Jonny (Patrick Swayze) is 24. And yes, 18 is not 17, but seriously, how much emotionally mature is someone at 17 compared to 18?
that’s why I didn’t like that movie
There is so much conservative bias in this.
In what way did Oliver take advantage of Elio? He was reluctant and only gave in because Elio was really convinced he wanted him.
How exactly was Elio harmed by having Sex with Oliver? In what way is someone who is young (but already has a normal sex drive) harmed by being sexually active with someone older? That really depends of the behaviour of the older person and i didn't see any harmfull behaviour in this.
How is it really up to debate if Oliver really loved him? That's what the movie tells and it doesn't imply anything else.
In fact, what makes this movie(and maybe book i didn't read it) so special, is that every character is taken so seriously. Nobody is shaming Oliver for loving someone young (not a child, but a teen that already has more mature desires), nobody thinks Elio should not be allowed to decide who he wants to have sex with and even his parents are so supportive and the monologue of his dad in the end pretty much sums up what the actual message of the story is. Even the girl that fell in love with Elio is taken serious and has a clarifying talk with Elio in the end.
Elio was clearly feeling off after he had sex with Oliver but instead of comforting him, Oliver was more concerned whether or not Elio is still into him (hence the blow job). The book gives insight on Elio's disturbed state of mind after their sex but even in the movie, you can see that Elio was being distant in the morning after. Compared to his reaction after he had sex with 'the girlfriend' , Elio was definitely more himself afterwards. Beautiful words such as "Call me by your name, and I'll call you by mine" means nothing if you truly look at Oliver's behaviour towards Elio, especially after sex. Being an intellectual, musical prodigy and a polyglot does not mean you are mature. The parent's acceptance does not make the relationship any more okay either. The main issue in the age gap here is their imbalance of power and maturity. Maybe try watching the whole video above for more info :)
@@sallystake4225 yes, Elio seemed different after their first Sex, but why do you think that has to do with their age difference? Was it really because of Oliver, or more because of the social stigma, that comes with him having sex with an older man, instead of a girl his age. Was he maybe afraid he would get in trouble because he had sex with his dads guest? What makes you not think that? The sex, out of respect for true intimacy, is not shown to the viewer. So you just seem to assume the reason for Elios behaviour is the sex. why didn't you consider it from a perspective that does not fit the age gap ≈ predator clishe? Why is Elios emotional state after their first time valid, but Oliver being afraid Elio does not share the same feelings is not? What I hear out of your position, is that you think Oliver is just trying to sexually exploit Elio but has no real interest in him. You seem to see sinister intentions, but these are never implied or pointed to in the story. Especially their first intimate contacts, are all initiated by Elio himself what always showed for me that Oliver was aware of the power he has because he was more mature and he did not pressure him into having sex with him and instead let everything flow at Elios pace. And I'm fully aware of the inbalance of power that comes with the difference in maturity because I'm an educator, but that does not at all imply a relationship between them is doomed as abusive even though US-culture seems to assume that.
I also read the review of the person who was groomed by her teacher in your info and while that was a horrible story, it's not really comparable with Elios situation and further confirms you're probably pretty biased because of worst case scenarios that are very present in media.
@@mrphilipp14122 Regardless of the reason why Elio was feeling "off" after sex, Oliver being the more mature one in the relationship, should have checked up on him. He should have asked all the concerns you have for Elio having sex with an older man like u mentioned above. I never said that Oliver being concerned about Elio's change of heart is invalid. It just seemed inappropriate to care about that first thing when your much younger sexual partner is feeling not okay. I said in the video that they might have feelings for each other but it's mostly led by lust. Oliver NEVER checked up on how Elio was feeling afterwards or even before, never ask if he is comfortable, never ask what he likes, these conversations are important for every relationship. I didn't use the term abusive or predator to describe Oliver either but I'm merely saying age gap is something to be ware off. There are successful couples with big age gaps and that's because their level of maturity and power dynamic is the same. Whereas in cmbyn, Oliver seems to take advantage of Elio's crush to explore his sexuality but without thinking about the repercussion that might affect Elio's state of mind after he decided to get married out of the blue. They went from chit chatting about philosophy, riding bikes, eating brunches, to literally making out and being head over heels for each other but this movie fails to depict an essential part in a relationship which is getting to know the person (their aspirations, their past, their future) if you're in love with someone, wouldn't you wanna know those things? but we found none of those things out in the movie because they never truly communicate their desires and intentions.
i'm not conservative at all and I agree with the video, their relationship reminds me of one I had as a 12 year old with someone older than me... it's not okay
The major problem is the age gap. His brain isn't completely developed yet. He could be so easily manipulated. That's not right no matter what context.
I personally know ppl who had experiences similar to cmbyn, in today's standards we know this is unacceptable and that's actually good but unfortunately, during my time as a teen, the age gap wasn't much of an issue but the sexual preference was. Lolita, CMBYN, similar stories like these should be read with a mature / critical mindset since ppl tend to overlook certain issues bec they find such relationships romantic.
True, CMBYN is about mental abuse, Oliver is a manipulating, gaslighting narcissist. Still people call it a love story. And yes...at some point is similar to Lolita but told from the view of a abuse victim..
@@ultron374 disagree, Oliver is shown in the film to be an insecure individual whose been closeted by his homophobic family, he never gaslights or manipulates mostly hes just scared and regretful the whole film. I think you might be projecting armie hammer who IS a gaslighting narcissist onto Oliver
@@natestern2021 he is still using this guy even if he knows he will dump him at the end and it will never be a relationship causing this yonger guy mental distress. ( he just used him for his own purpose - got his rocks off) Oliver is a manipulator ( i don't know anything about Armie)
@@ultron374 well by that logic so is Elio. And Armie Hammer is terrible in real life don't google it, it gets messy. And I can't remember any scene that gave any indication that he was using Elio.
@@natestern2021 there were actually quite many if u look closely ( trunks off scene, drunk scene and the one he goes to the girl to dance and treats Elio like poo- asks Elio to translate stuff to the girl- nice) he was taking an advantage quite many times. Characters in this movie were so underdeveloped and shallow that it was painfull to watch.
As a older gay man who had an "Elio" some 40+ years ago (whom I still love and with whom I am still friends...and also with his current lover. He was, at the time older than Elio, btw), I profoundly disagree with you. You are obsessed with the numbers. Concerns over age gaps are a social construct and have varied throughout the ages. While you are entitled to your ideas, you provide weak support for the universality of them. For one thing, a good many males of Elio's age are quite capable of being the aggressor in such a relationship. I will agree that there is experimentation going on, both heterosexually and homosexually...but this IS normal despite the oppression of those who think otherwise. I sense what I've noticed in many people recently, something I term "creeping puritanism." America is a sex-negative society that is wallowing in sex all the time. Couple that with a oppressive religiosity from many quarters, and now add to that a rising (and justified) realization of female sexual harassment and abuse, it is arguably to be expected to view Elio and Oliver from that perspective. I might add that the book might suggest a somewhat different perspective as does the sequel "Find Me." The facebook site devoted to CMBYN has reams of responses from around the world that are entirely contrary to your position. In short, by focusing on the age gap you've now glossed over the fundamental beauty of the film.
Paedophilia in a lot of words.
@@starsparklemonkey3390 How is it pedophilia?
Well said, John. Thank you. So many people -- perhaps most -- go through their entire lives without having a relationship one-tenth as beautiful as that between Elio and Oliver.
🤮 .... No
@@phuck8627 A remarkably detailed and thoughtful response, anchored in logic and reason. Thank you.
Disgusting film that glorifies sexual predation and perpetuates "son-and-daddy relationships" among the gay community. The movie feels like something a NAMbLA member would support and push. The age of consent is irrelevant - Armie Hammer looks old enough to be Elio's father. The boy is literally portrayed as a child who cuddles with his parents, shaves peach fuzz from his face, talks childlike and is in a relationship with someone portrayed very much as an adult man. Imagine if this was a man and a girl. Just because the child is pursuing the relationship does not make it OK. It's disturbing how much this film is lauded and shameful how it overshadowed films like God's Own Country, which actually deserved recognition, not this pedophilic propaganda
lets not forget that no one seems to care about the fatty age gap in dirty dancing. baby is 17 and johnny is like 30??? so whats so different here??
Nice use of WHATABOUTISM! -_-
You wanna know the difference? Gay people have already been INCORRECTLY and horribly labelled pedophiles, don't reinforce that fool!
As a bisexual man, I think Luca’s Call Me By Your Name (2017) is a better representation not just of homosexuality in our age but of bisexuality and bisexual romances. Consider that both Elio and Oliver are in fact, both bisexual - not simply gay. Bi-erasure is extremely problematic, both in the heterosexual world and unfortunately within the LGBTQ community itself. This movie speaks to the fact, that aside from its aesthetic Northern Italian backdrop, yes, that bisexuality exists, and can be beautiful. Beautiful in the sense that it differs from societal confines or stereotypes between what society may depict homosexual men as: drag, overly effeminate, and camp. The movie depicts a believably developed attraction for me between two guys that is playful, charming, and speaks to the unrequited love rather between two male souls. Understand that gayness in general has been historically canceled and frowned upon by Western society and that the author demonstrates unrequited love and this strife artfully through their age difference. Moreover, both Oliver and Elio are importantly traditionally masculine men; Oliver being all-American (he plays sports, is confident, a lady-killer; Elio being nonchalant and coo), it speaks to the current stereotype of Gay men being awkward, shy, reserved and effeminate creatures. The movie artfully demonstrates the reality of a homosexual relationship, albeit in a beautiful and more refined idyllic setting. The villa, the family, and the countryside give viewers a glimpse into the memories of both men. The setting speaks to a fond time long past in both their experiences. Now regarding the age gap: take it as the modern-day reality that most gay romances in our age happen over sexting nudes on obscene dating apps such as Grindr and Tinder. Guys ask each other for ass and cock pics before any* romance even occurs. Hookup culture is extremely prevalent. More disturbingly, the young men on these apps are preyed upon by predators much, much older than they are. Do I think the 7 - year age gap is problematic? No. Not really. If Oliver was 10 years older, maybe. If he was more? Yes. Elio is a smart, sexually promiscuous, hot young guy who sleeps with Marcia and fondles her breasts, he even cums early. He’s excited and wants to explore his adolescence and sexuality. Is this something I think should be okay for an adolescent guy to do? Yes. Frankly yes. It’s part of a person’s sexual development to be able to properly explore themselves and understand their sexuality. It is their right and freedom and more importantly, *their* body. Why right or business do you think a society has in saying someone can’t do what *they want with *their body? I think everyone should be able to do what they want with their body. (As long as it isn’t harm). Going back to the movie, we see both Oliver and Elio asking for consent at every stage and at every interaction in their romance. Despite the one awkward encounter with Oliver grabbing water from Elio and grabbing his shoulder, most if not all their advances have been consensual. Oliver asks for permission to kiss or touch Elio either verbally or non-verbally. It is this beautiful dynamic that I think can only be understood by people who are bisexual or homosexual and should be taken as such. Granted, I do understand that people may see it differently and from a place of vehement hatred, and I ask these people, why be part of a society? Moreover, why restrict freedom for people within a world and age range that is in fact, ok. Let them love each other. It’s pure and it’s what real love should be.
You don't typically fall in love with someone your age. Elio learned much about life from Oliver and not much beyond sexual experience from the female lover his age.
True. And that is how many if not most LGBT people learned about life in those days, when there were no role models for them to learn from. If you were lucky, you might find someone older and wiser and more experienced to help you grow up and accept yourself. Elio's female lover laughed at his first attempt to have sex with her. Oliver took it slowly and cautiously and at Elio's pace. Your comment here inspired me to write a much longer comment about this dynamic above.
Most people marry people within 1-3 years of their age.
@@kimerietate8372 Can you provide studies and data that prove your point? My parents were 6 years apart. My grandparents were twelve years apart. Who are these "most people" you are alluding to?
i have no problem with anything but why would they not just make him a year older? its not like it would drastically change the plot?, i understand that the book may have been that way but plenty of books that get adapted into movies tend to change things up so its suitable for a screen. but honestly if you have a problem with the age thing maybe youre too young to be watching an adult movie
1 years it's a little, I think it's okey how it is
I’ve never understood why people blacklist age gaps. Sure they have the potential to lead to power imbalance but that doesn’t mean they all will. Instead people try their hardest to split potentially happy couples instead of just keeping a closer eye one them. It just seems weird to me to attempt to take away actual choice from people when they’re are such bigger issues in this world, especially considering most issues derived from an age gap can absolutely still happen in other couples as well
A little skinny boy with a 30 something year old looking man is a problem! But that is the reality of Hollywood! Twisted
Everyone’s gonna have issues with an age gap! Whether it’s 17-24, 24-30, 30-41 people always have an issue but when it comes to the straights it’s all ok!
Actually no, it's not still.
@@phuck8627 Yeah in fact I argue this movie wouldn't have much defense if it was straight
It's not the age gap, that really bothers everyone. It's the immaturity/maturity gap.
You are so right on! It took me a while to watch it cause of the age gap. In fact my sister (who is straight) dated her now husband when she was 17 and he was 30. (They even had a kid together). And it made me think of that.
Oh boy. That's disturbing. Is your family ok with that?
i think this film should have been raising more awerness about the age gap. it showed ped0phili@ in a romantic way, not addressing the problems of their relationship at all. i didnt like this film because although the writers might wanted us to feel uncormfterble, showing real life relationships, no character ever juged them over the age gap. it basically romanticised gro0ming without saying how wrong was it, letting elio keep hurting himself and oliver leaving without any consequences. also the stars in your video were shit can you stop with them? the peaches were also unnececery. (no hard feelings)
For the simple reason that it is not a pedophilic romance, it does not have any issues to highlight. You are viewing the film through an incorrect lens of realism when ideally Guadagnino films usually require to be viewed in the eyes of idealism. CMBYN is more complex than regular romance films and has a certain philosophical rehtoric and historic key attached to it that helps mitigate issues of age and sexuality in the romance that blossoms between Elio and Oliver.
The entire film resembles an artwork and to say the peach is unecessary is like telling Da Vinci that the Mona Lisa is unnecessary. The peach serves a deeply rooted philosophical purpose and is meant to reflect the invariant and universal desire for sensual pleasure among libido driven teenagers while according to the story the peach symbolises Elio's attachment to Oliver and his desire to not let go of him.
I really don't understand why age gap is even still a thing especially nowadays. It is absolutely fine as long as they are adults and mutual.
Agree but they're not both adults on this movie
@@TothanCrawk Really?! For me they already are.
They aren't adults that's the problem. Imagine if a straight man who's 24 years old moved in with two people to help them and then he preyed after their 17-year-old daughter. Does it still sound like a romantic story?
It's not even the fact that it happened because I know it happens in the straight community all the time. My thing is is that it's being romanticized and seen as a good thing within the lgbtq community. Straight teens need to be protected, lgbtq teens need to be protected, and the fact that they're trying to put lgbtq kids on the same level as adults just because of their sexuality is so dangerous.
I have to disagree with you on some things. I mean honestly, this opinion is from the perspective of an American (please correct me if I'm wrong). In Europe, a 7 year age gap isn't really big of a deal, to be honest, or at least where I live it is perfectly fine. I mean I don't know, it might be the fact that here we need to grow up faster, I remember generally doing almost everything on my own because of my neglectful parents and I know that here in Hungary this is a county-wide phenomenon. (I have a friend who at 16 was living with her bf who was around 26, her mom knew about it and was friends with her bf, they were just living together and being happy). Not even talking about the fact that the movie is set in the 1980s when this wasn't even as big of a deal as it is today. And also, gay people don't really have a choice of who they want to be with. I mean I lost my virginity to a 50 something years old man at the age of 18. Yes, this shouldn't be okay but this is what gay people go through and this is why the majority idealizes this piece of art. Because they can relate to it so much. So if I was able to find a 23-year-old at the age of 17 (or idk how old they are) then that would make me so happy, just like it made Elio happy. (and devastated after but that's a different story). By the way, loved the video and I can see where you are coming from! :) These are only cultural differences.
Thank you for the compliment on the video. I'm neither European nor American tho haha. It's really interesting to see your perspective on age gap in Europe being more normalised. However, I think it all comes down to maturity and the power dynamics when it comes to age gap in couples. I agree that a lot of gay people will relate to this film. It is very beautifully shot but I think it glamorise the bad parts of the relationship a lot. It would be much better if LGBTQ+ youths today know what is truly a healthy relationship either by having the right representation on screen or having the audience acknowledge that the representation on screen is problematic. They should know that they do not have to "settle" in an unbalance relationship in order to experience love or sex, especially when being gay is more accepted today. BTW I'm sorry to hear that you lost your virginity that way. It shouldn't be like that.
Settle? Most people go through their entire lives without experiencing a relationship one-tenth as beautiful.
You and your friend were groomed. What will a 26yo have in common w someone who’s still im high school ffs
+
Leave the kids alone, it's not a hard thing to do. And leave lgbt people alone, we like adults of same sex nothing to do with kids
One of my fav movies/books, i love the aesthetic and their romance is just amazing(with exceptions ofc). Unfortunately people are hating it a lot. I know theres bad relationship stuff, but the goals for me is how they show their most pure feelings. And yes we need to remember the story’s from 83(no 100% healthy relationships at all)
Painting pretty little stories that please everyone's ideals is just not real life. What CMBYN does brilliantly is it creates a beautiful environment for something real and ugly to unfold, it's not a throwaway film, and this is why it will be spoken about as a cinematic masterpiece for many years.
This isn't pleasing everyones ideals, it literally called common sense.
As someone who’s been in an age gap relationship I wouldn’t say that the actual gap is the problem, but where the two are in their lives at their ages. Elio is 17, having sex and falling in love for the first time, still learning about the things that “actually matter” while 24 year old Oliver is experienced and has lived more life than Elio. The power imbalance is crazy there and is what is especially concerning. I did enjoy it more than I thought I would, buttttt
A girls take on the conditions of the heart or the world in general, of course very american and puritanic. When i here "morally" "healthy", "appropriate" regarding relationships I am reminded of the nazi past in my country. "Grow up, see you at midnight" or how was it like after Elio chasing Oliver with so much effort ?
My cousin is 14 and has a 32-year-old boyfriend
And that's very strange to me
I'm 18, but I've always avoided older people. Older women and men have tried to manipulate me into an abusive relationship. Thank God I've always ignored them. It's better to be a Virgin than someone else's toy
Why aren't there more ppl talking bout how wrong the movie is???
I saw it n it was uncomfortable 😶 when I realized the age gap 🤢......
7 yrs. isn’t that much of an age gap. In foreign countries age isn’t a factor like it is here in the states.
@@shannonsmith2642 so?? That doesn't make it ok.
@@mylife-23 the movie is portrayed how it was written, right or wrong in your eyes., it is what it is.
@@shannonsmith2642 if you think it's ok for a grown up & a kid to be in a relationship 🤢 you got some issues.
@@mylife-23 if this was my child no, I would put a stop to it but this is how the story was written, so I’m focusing less on the age gap. I don’t have issues but really enjoyed the movie and thought it was an amazing story.
If he was one year older would it make that much of a difference? I myself wasn't much different between the ages of 17-19. I started being sexually active at 17. I dated a 26 year old when I was 19. I don't regret it at all and was fully in love. Would it be a coming of age story if he were 18? Maybe? Maybe not. Either way I don't think Elio wasn't old enough to make his own decisions. I also don't think he regrets it and his dad's advise even tells him not to regret it and to grow from it. Idk. I guess a big age gaps all depend on who's experiencing them. My grand parents were 10 years apart. They met later in life. I can't see myself being with someone 10 years older but they clearly could. Who's to judge who someone else is willing to fall in love with if both are consenting?
the age gap its actually normal in Italy since the age consent is 14, but people may still feel weird
I think people don't have an issue with the age gap if both are adults, the problem here is one is still minor and under-aged!
Please please please try and consider that cultural differences EXIST please
No
@@phuck8627 care to articulate?
@@toxicdiscord698 culture doesn't justify fucking kids...
@@phuck8627 absolutely not, but different cultures consider people of certakn ages adults
@@toxicdiscord698 again, no
I dont care if its like normal in Europe or wherever italy is 😭 its just creepy lol. And also even in legal relationships in America, (18 and dating a 40 yr old or 18 and with a 27 year old) its weird.
You think it's weird. Most of the people don't think that. In many states 16 is age of consent. If want to be with 60 or 80 yo it's not your biznes.
@@samsungdrei I don't care 🤷 it's still wrong
@@phuck8627 So don't do this. For you is wrong, for other people it's OK.
@@samsungdrei yeah no 🤦 that's not how it works
@@samsungdrei don't day most people like your desperate attempt to justify romanticized statutory r@pe somehow represents the masses.
I am very late, but Dear Lord, let people have opinions people Lmao. There are a myriad of different people out there in the world, with different moral codes and priorities as you not everyone can agree with you and vice versa. The best you can do is to understand really. You don't have to change your opinion, no one is forcing you to, so don't force others to agree with you too. Even if you disagree with Sally's take or find it appalling, be constructive about your criticism, don't just spew bs. Be respectful to this amazing youtuber, have a great day.
The age of consent in Europe is not the same as in the US! There is nothing wrong with Elio and Oliver's relationship in terms of age.
Imagine being fine with literally anything as long as it's legal
There's no uniform age of consent in Europe. It differs for each country.
Love is Love 🌈
Unless it's that movie 🤢
*Ps: I'm in the LGBT+
Me too, comrade 😎
I love this video cause its so well_made and I agree with all the things you addressed in it.
Bruh the age gap between my parents in 30 years
Still my favourite movie ever, but the age gap is still a bit 😲
I'd hoped the film version's Elio was an adult, but no, he was 17 there too. (He says so 63 minutes in, right before talking to his mom)
Thank you! I kept seeing so many people singing the praises for this movie… but I couldn’t get the same vibes from it, I was just disgusted for the most part…
I like your video editing v much, the bg music, the art, color combo, those little peaches that you put here and there, I mean like the overall aesthetic is really good but mann lets just agree to disagree lol.
Love is love and hard to find and shouldn't have any age barriers.
So a 6 year old can be with a 16 year old? A 15 year old can be with a 20 year old? No. Live should have age barriers when it involves minors.
@@Lemoncakelover678 Well, common sense needs to prevail, of course.
Ok Groomer
I think having Hammer who was 30 trying to play someone 24 didn't help.
Have a actor that looked 24, similar build to Timothee would it have felt as off?
Make it now and have say Kit Connor as Elio and Tom Holland as Oliver, would that seem so strange?
Kit is a big guy but can pull off 17, Tom has matured but could still pass for 24.
So yes casting influence the framing of the age gap, not just the gap and I think that was PR and editorial choice when the film was made to make it look like the gap was much wider.
I’ve changed my mind the age gap is problematic af.
Then you would be surprised to know that as per the sequel, Elio becomes empowered through his romance with Oliver, motivated to seek his place in the adult world and readily accepts and comes to terms with his queer sexuality. 20 years after both Elio and Oliver lead two successful and intellectual lives they meet again in the same villa and reconcile their millenary bond. Not one problem.
The big problem for me is the Elio’s weird obsession abt Oliver which was really disturbing in the book. Like any relationship shouldn’t being based on that kind of toxic obsession. Even if it says that Oliver loves Elio more then we think I totally disagree that. Elio is very, deeply, in this while Oliver seems just like having fun, like it’s a game. He don’t seems to realize the Elio’s pain like he don’t give a shit.
Moreover it’s just disgusting for me that the author just chose the age gap for normalize this kind of relationship. I mean he’s pedophilic and he try to romantize this it’s just super wrong eurk
The heterosexual culture is full of hyprocrisy. The Europeans used to marry off young women to old men. Girls are still married to old men in the Middle East. It was the standard in the U.S. that the man was to be older. (Maybe so when he would be an invalid, the wife could take care of him.) My mother was at least 4 years younger than my father. I had a male Indian co-worker who had an arranged marriage. He held it up as virtuous, yet was always thinking of prostitutes! Any guy who transcribes music is mature enough to handle a first love situation. Elio was more "mature" than the guys I knew in college. The age difference is just a red herring.
While I mostly agree with you, and I especially hate arranged marriages (I am gonna be emotionally manipulated into one sooner than later) my only problem is Elio is underage. He could've been 18 and none of it would be lost
@@Sacrificallamba He was not underaged in Italy. And why is it OK that he was having sex with females but not with someone of his own sex?
@@linnaeusshecut3959 also, a lot of viewers of the movie aren't American or European. I am Indian. And here the legal age is 18. Also a lot in the movie is unsaid but heavily implied and pretty obvious for someone who has been in their shoes. Most people haven't had a love/lust so forbidden. They don't read expressions or body language. They listen to the dialogues and watch a movie as if it is a podcast.
@@Sacrificallamba The age difference subject was discussed years ago when the movie was still new. That is how I learned that the age of consent in Italy is below 18, but I don't remember the exact age.
um...okay? that doesn't change that their relationship is disgusting, just because lots of straight people are fine with straight non consent "relationships", doesn't mean it's okay if it's a gay relationship
A new perspective! Nice video! Love u
A 7 year age gap is Absolutely nothing, at all. Yes making Elio 17 and a minor That's an issue with AMERICAN law, not sure what the laws in Italy are. And Elio made all the advances, Oliver stopped him Several times. Additionally, Elio's dad seemed to know what was going on. Horrible video you've got here
It's clearly not the law that we care about
elio was too, in a relationship aspect, immature, and it just seemed like he was more so manipulated by oliver rather than them being in an equally requited relationship. elio was young and still discovering his sexuality and he was unfortunately met and got engaged in a fling. i heard that it’s based on the writer’s real life experience and what happened in his life, i might be wrong but if that is so, that might explain the awkward age gap.
In which specific scene was Elio manipulated by Oliver? There are several scenes where Elio was pursuing Oliver even after Oliver told him "No."
@@charlesdarnay5455 it may have seemed like elio was the one in charge but the whole time oliver was there he was already doing too much, as in he teased elio romantically so elio would think it would lead to them being something together. it’s not laid out on the table but oliver manipulated elio emotionally as he was a grown adult who knows more than to toy with a person almost half his age, who knows obviously less than he does about love. just look at how it ended, elio was left confused and to oliver, disregarding what he said, it was simply just a summer fling.
@@siyonnsophearum4485 Oliver told Elio several times "we are not doing that" but Elio kept pushing for it. Even the night they finally had sex, Oliver asked first, "are you ok" before they proceeded. When and where did Oliver "manipulate" Elio? Examples? Neither of them manipulated the other. They both struggled to express their attraction to each other. That is not manipulation. it is the struggle to come to terms with one's sexuality in an age where it was unacceptable to talk about being gay, let alone actually being gay.
@@charlesdarnay5455 yes true it was unacceptable to talk about being gay back then in the movie, but monir and issac were openly gay, i know this doesn’t add to anything but i’m just trying to say that it wasn’t impossible to be gay. and while oliver did ask for consent and all that before proceeding to doing things, it was still manipulation in a way. the level of maturity in the relationship is what determines who’s in control since it is clear that the person who knows more would take the steering wheel and in this case elio was still just discovering his sexuality and what he likes and doesn’t. even though oliver said “we’re not doing this”, in the dialogue of them talking towards the near end, he said he was giving elio signs when he touched him so it was since the beginning that oliver wanted to toy with him and leave it as just a summer fling.
@@siyonnsophearum4485 Until Oliver realized that Elio was that naive and immature, at which point he immediately backed off and kept his distance. Or tried to, as best he could while living in the next room in the same house. And once he did realize Elio's naivete, and saw that Elio was still pursuing him, even leaving love notes under his door, Oliver finally took the lead, but did so very gently and patiently, letting Elio set the pace, and worrying afterwards whether or not he was doing the right thing. This was about much more than a summer fling. This was about one person helping another discover his sexuality, exploring it with him, and doing it carefully as possible, knowing it couldn't last. I don't think people who aren't gay don't understand that dynamic. It's a heavy responsibility being the one to bring someone out of the closet, and Oliver did it the best he knew how once he understood Elio, and his concern was for Elio first and foremost. Even Elio knew from the beginning that it couldn't last, and yet he kept at it.
I gotta be honest, as a part of the LGBT+ community myself, I was disturbed to find out the age gap in this movie. Especially because Elio is literally a minor. He might be smart, he might be intelligent but he's not as mature as an adult. But what I dislike even more about this movie is Elio's complete obsession and how it's romanticised. We are supposed to root for this relationship, but it's extremely unhealthy. If instead of this we got a movie or a book, that's about two teens in the 90s, madly in love with each other, trying to suppress their feelings because of how other people might react, with both points of view, I would be so happy. It's still realistic, gay people couldn't express their feelings and keep them in back in the day. But this movie is overfilled with lust and unhealthy points.
As a member myself, I mortified with the level that the people who watch this movie romanticize statutory r@pe.
@@TothanCrawk Yeah exactly I feel so bad for Elio.
I don't think their relationship was meant to be healthy. It was meant to be a means of exploration. (imo)
This video is another case of someone trying to come of as an expert...she failed. If you want an accurate opinion on it would be best to avoid this persons RUclips channel
Don’t even want to hear a discussion of age difference. Love is Acceptance of what IS rather than what one WANTS, and is a mature way to drink the apricot nectar from the Perlman’s orchard.
N0nce
Dude💀 stop making excuses
This is wrong
I'm sorry but age gaps have been happening for thousands of years. All over the world. Yes he was 17 but he was very mature for his age. Would it be any different if it was a few months later when he was 18?
Actually, I don't remember Oliver's age ever being divulged in the film.
I feel like the entire thing was instigated by elio, and oliver downright told him no like 5 times before they were together that they shouldn't do anything but elio kept pressing. I think, given the maturity and intelligence of elio, he knew what the scenario looked like and wasn't pressured into anything at all, rather he was the one hellbent on trying to influence oliver.
If it was the other way around then get the mf police on this groomer, but since it's built up by elio I kind of understand it. It's still very uncomfortable, but I don't feel like anything immoral was done without both of them understanding fully what it meant
Reality is as a teenager 17 years old we fall in love or have a puppy love and in our heart there is no age bracket where to put it. Let be that experience be and remember Oliver did not go there in Crema just for a latte and he did not jump into Elio for sex until they both fall in love. A friend of mine is complaining too why Elio is having sex with a Peach. Hello.. Other used vegetables and I try but maybe Peach is much better.
Elio was gay, going to be gay. His whole character type shows us this. His music, his intelligence, his ways.....Whereas Oliver was closeted gay. In his world he had to marry and lead a straight life.
They met, fell in love and this heartbreaking love story showed us how Elio pursued Oliver. Oliver hung back - was so afraid to show his true self.
A 7 year age gap is nothing. Had Oliver been 17 years older then it might have been a concern.
you guys realize that in italy the age you become an adult is sixteen, the age gap is a alot, but not illegal
jus because it is not illegal, doesn't make it morally right.
@@sallystake4225 I just recently saw this movie 3 times. I am a very mature adult over 30yr old. Eliot would had not been that much more mature at 18yrs old. I would had been a little uncomfortable if he was 16yrs, but 17 and 18 are pretty much the same as far as maturity levels. I also can accept that I am basing being uncomfortable from a United States point of view. I did consider that laws in Italy are different, while watching this movie. For you to judge this as not being morally right is insulting the entire country of Italy. I doubt they just chose age 14 as consenting without good reasoning. Eliot's friends acted pretty mature for their age. Plus, it is a movie and too many people are taking it too literal. Too literal to the point of not realizing that it is a great relatable movie. It is about a summer romance that was not going to make it pass summer due to their circumstances. The age gap is only one of the circumstances but too many people dwell on that instead of looking at the entire movie for what it is. A love story, Everyone I know who has experience a summer fling, thought they were in love. Most people have experienced heart break. And to anyone who believes that this one movie represents the entire LGBT community, get some diversity in your life. That is like thinking the movie Pretty Woman is every woman's Cinderella story. One more thing, to me, the 7yr age gap is a problem because of where the characters are in their lives. Oliver has graduated high school, undergrad, graduate, and visited other parts of the world. Eliot is just now discovering a potential life outside of his family.
@@sallystake4225 Your argument doesn't make sense. It is legal, end of discussion. 17 is year from war, so if a dude can go to war, he can sure screw anyone he wants.
@@Zorish373 That’s the point tho, yes it is legal, but when does legalizing equal being morally good or neutral. Laws and morals are two different things. For example, if murder was legal, would you believe killing someone is to be okay then, just cause it’s legal? Or what if rape was allowed in a country, would that all of a sudden be morally acceptable because it has been legalized?
@@eliefhr exactly, in some countries women voting/ homsexual relationships etc. are illegal but doesn't make it right
I think people evaluate the story in the wrong way, focusing on what are the least important subjects of the movie. Also a man or a gay man’s perspective could perhaps give a better funded opinion.
bro im gay too and i had the exact same age gap at 17, total train wreck, not a good age gap 😮💨
This video is so important, thank you so much!
💗💗💗
Sorry Yuki, it misunderstands the movie completely and what it is trying to say