The secret to Tchaikovsky octaves is surprisingly simple | Jon Kimura Parker
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Jon Kimura Parker shares an essential practice trick for how to learn the octave passages in Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto in B-flat Minor, Op. 23.
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I'd like to see a poll of professional pianists asking how many use only 1+5 and how many add some 1+4 for black key octaves.
It depends, but in many cases when there's a legato with octaves, 1+4 is the better for black keys
Honestly, I think legato is the enemy of all good technique, except if the passage is very slow. Otherwise, you just try to move from key to key with the least amount of effort. At least in my training, legato was way too overemphasized, and the flow of playing was lacking because of it.
1-5, 1-4.going from white to black and vice versa. The only way to get legato lines on top.
Depends on hand size
I use all 1-3, 1-4 and 1-5 depending on the situation.
Did he seriously say that all white key octave passages are easy, “a gift?”
Compared to mixing black and white, actually yes.
@@mariapap8962 it’s harder for me tbh
He was saying that particular one was easy.
That's what i thought immediately
Different hand shapes deal with technical challenges a bit differently. But he’s interesting to listen to 11 years after giving up teaching when my husband got a miserable diagnosis.
Schubert-Liszt - Erlkönig: HA! Is that all you got??
Oh you are in a mean mood today Mr Jones!😅
For greatest efficiency, in such octave passages, I try to play the black keys at their ends, and the white keys adjacent to the end of the black keys, so as to minimize the in-out movement of the hand/wrist/arm, pretending as it were being a slalom racer hugging the gate flags as closely as possible. Use of 1-(3)/4 on black octaves can optimize this too. Of course, for greatest speed one uses the smallest mass possible, that being moving the hand only from the wrist. When engaging the forearm, the velocity is necessarily more limited.
Danke für die Hilfe 💐
I find that for fast octave passages with leaps, then a mix of white and black keys make it easier to “navigate” than if it has all white keys.
Just his explanation and movements convinced me that I could never play a piano. I could never control my hand movements like that. It amazes me how some people can play, even at early ages.
This is a very advanced piece!
Great reminders!
Love it! Thanks!
I spent so long on that bit one time long ago! 😅 I ended up doing it exactly as this guy describes.
where is this form? some tchaikovsky concerto perhaps? i've been looking for this very passage for about a month
@@notinlaTchaikovsky 1st piano concerto in Bb minor, first movement, maybe 2/3 through. IMSLP has the score. Enjoy it, it's amazing to play (the whole thing, not just this bit). 🙂
Thank you. Lovely informative content. I enjoy each lesson.
Thank you
This man has deep knowledge HOW and WHERE to do the hitting. Right. In conclusion: It MUST consist of a powerful blow that exudes acute mastering, unabated confidence and, not least important, unrivaled passion. Want to learn it. With him. The bottom line? Clear, understandable short but ‘viscous flow’ results that deliver a powerful punch.
its all about practicing, and if you have hands that are big enough to cover more than an octave it's a bit easier
You appear to be talking about “kinetic memory”. I’m not sure you’re really said much except “play the notes as written” because you can’t do otherwise than “go in” (or “up” or “closer”) on the keys to play the black notes. Repetition develops kinetic memory. Any other real tips to do that would be appreciated
This guy gives me hope. I can _just_ reach a ninth.
white-white-white is super easy? I beg to differ :)
"this is super easy, and it's a gift" lol
Actually, familiarizing oneself with the "geography" of the piano for each individual piece helps, whatever tricky passage might be involved.
What piece is this from please
Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto no. 1.
‘White white white - super easy’. I can’t play octaves on white notes from above, but i kinda can stretch my hand enough to play on black keys 😂 im an adult ahaha
Dammnnn that's unfortunate 😢
❤❤j
👌👌👌
Lead with the thumbs. Makes it easier.
His secret to playing the right notes is to... play the right notes. Deep.
TBH I just absolutely go to where the pitch needs to be... But there's this mode, Concert Mode which is a mode where you enter Concert Octaves Mode. Nothing special, just don't awareness of some kind indeed, so maybe I get it :)
However though, time periods where various kinds of fortepiani used, that was different and legato smoother! Like Beethoven's Waldstein sonata where octaves go in countpoint, legato and fast as needed at ease... The only problem is the modern piano in that case 😅
How about the very last octaves passage of Mendelssohn's Rondeau Cappricioso?
Do you advise to use 1-4 on all the back keys or some if the time or all 1-5?
I like to think "diminished scale cells", then "diminished arpeggio cells".
I am using 3 and 4 finger on the black key when possible to ease tension
Get out of here
3 is comfortable for you on octaves? How big are your hands, lol.
@@alhfgsp yeah big hands.. I use also 1 7(4+3) and 1 9 (4+5) for power
@@nicolasterzani9017 interesting!
any tips on just black keys octaves such as the end the of op10 no5?
Why can’t they make the black keys a bit wider?
You're an Organist aren't you!!!😂😉
just get rid of them and make them all white lol
Because then the fingers won't fit between the black keys
What about left hand octaves that that jump? Like it spells out a chord arpeggio?
Time to find a new composition to work on 😉
it requires the speed of brain recognition, super fast gps for fingers to land between black/white
we need a map prepared first! 😂
Super advanced students... be aware. For the very beginners and enthusiasts of the piano, let's wait for a simpler one- minute lesson.
The cat was the cats neck I can see whiskers and the yellow heart was with the water and all of you must of see the star also the pizza was with the pizza
Omgg so that's why my octaves are so blurry and they suck. I don't go in I just stretch my fingers 😭
Why do I find all white harder though? 😅
Or.... just understand the sounds of intervals between notes, if it sounds like youre going up a half step just go up a half step! If your sheet music is showing whole step whole step whole step, just go up 3 whole steps....
He's got an octave higher hair transplant on top all that. Bravo sir
Some sound advice JK-P😊
Any tips on the Wanderer Fantasy b161 through b164???
My thought is that if you can master those bars (at the appropriate tempo) you can master anything else that Schubert throws at you in this most beautiful composition.😅
Be aware that you're going in💀
And no tension on the wrist and the thumb... I don't think you would be able to play Chopin's Octave Etude like this without hurting at some point.
You didn't say anything about how to relax your wrist, especially for smaller hands.
He didn't say anything about anything really
The octatonic sensitivities of Russian composers.
Oh you do not use 4th finger when playing black keys
Как замечательно, что октавы играть учит человек который даже показать нормально не может.
With the size of my hands and fingers any octave is a challenge no matter how many hours of practice. Also the white white octave i can barely play on the edges of the keys. It looks like im playing tenths by the position of the fingers all the way on the edges. But no, those are my octaves and i consider giving up the piano
Why giving up piano just because you can't play those pieces made for octaves, are you planning to be a professional pianist or what😂?
May I ask what size is your hand?
There is a movement that promotes slightly narrower keyboards (octave = 6.0 inches or 5.5 instead of the current standard 6.5). There are some producers available such as Steingraeber & Söhne. You can alternate keyboards from standard to stretto in 10 minutes. Similar technologies are available to fit some popular Yamaha models. 5.5 will be perfect for you!
Check out more at PASK (pianists for alternatively sized keyboards). The transition from stretto to current standard and back is easier than we imagine. You will not risk to traumatise yourself and you will have a broader repertoire choice.
My brother in christ, what in the spray-on hair is going on atop thine head 🤪
5th on blacks here is a no go
only with small hands and small ... with normal hand size you would play all the black keys with the 4th finger and you would never jump like this.
Very wrong to say that white-white-white is a gift! Quite the opposit...
Some work on your Beethoven Op2 No1 C Major octaves will straighten you out! 😂😉
@@typetersen8809 Dear Ty, I understand what you mean! Maybe this has to do with the fingering as I completely changed my technique now playing any black key octave with the fourth finger. That way the movement is better and no lost of time. But when no black keys, yes, I feel like naked in the desert 😁
Do you have no.4-finger? If you have, you can play much easier😅
Not sure about that. Maybe if you have quite large hands. But I think it can introduce tension that impedes speed.
using fourth finger forces the wrist to twist and introduces tension
Actually I'm a pianist and I don't know any pianist who doesn't use the 4 finger in octave passages. Rather, I also use the 3 finger.
@@Taaa1216 Let me introduce myself - Dave Wilson. Now you can’t say that any more 😉. Actually I was trained to use 4 and even occasionally 3, like most people with classical training, but over time have found it to have very little advantage and instead introduces unwanted tension, so I’m weaning myself off of it. There’s still the rare passage where it makes sense, but for me personally I think it hurts more than helps.
@@Pseudifysorry, i don’t know who are you😅
The music used in the video is Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1. So we assume that this video is aimed at professional classical pianists or those who aspire to become one.
I have taken lessons from many top-class pianists, and I don't know any pianist who doesn't use 4 in octave passages. I have works with a lot of octaves, such as Liszt, at the heart of my repertoire, but I would never play them with just 1-5, at least not for me.
I hope this video and other such misinformation will not spread.
However, I am a classical pianist, so I do not know how to play jazz or pop piano.
Disagree, white white white is obviously harder than white black white
The spray on hair is really distracting
this... seems very obvious. I'm not sure where the advice is
"seems" is the operative word in your comment
Ikr these channels only give obvious advices.
Do these folks know nothing about sound organization? I mean really, you open up the video with BANGING IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET A BIG SOUND FROM THE INSTRUMENT WITHOUT STRIKING IT FROM A MILLION MILES AWAY
What?
@@WEEBLLOM what part don't you understand
@@jacobhuggins5448 everything
But it's a more fun and dramatic experience to do it from further away. Playing the piano has never just been about making the sound for some of us. This piece is a full-on party on the keys.
How? Serious question as an amateur pianist that struggles with weight
Thanks the God that octave passage is not legatto
so..... do slow practice .... got it.
My man tried to be every race
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